From freethaught at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 14:23:10 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 09:23:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with library databases Message-ID: Hello, Has anyone had any recent issues with the EBSCO electronic databases? I am accessing library databases from my school network, and the page appears to be blank once I click on a link that says "federated databases." I'm using Firefox and cannot determine which version of it. I am using jaws 12. Something has gotten updated here. Either the browser or the screen reader. Any experiences would be appreciated. Antonio From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 16:01:37 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 11:01:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with library databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Antonio, I've got some good news and some bad news...the good news is that the EBSCO tech support people know about the problem and are working on it. The bad news is that it will take a lot of time and in the meantime, EBSCO library databases are inaccessible to JAWS users. This is due to an update they installed over the Thanksgiving holiday. I, too, was having trouble with my school's library database access. I could put in search results, but the window would be blank after that. This is *not* a JAWS issue, but due to an update that they made that they didn't check with accessible technology before implementing. It also is not going to make a difference what internet browser you use. I've tried Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, and Google Chrome. None work. Until they fix the problem that makes it inaccessible to the blind, we will have to use readers for researching with EBSCO. This is extremely annoying, I know. I had to schedule a three-hour research time with a reader yesterday so I could get articles for a research paper I'm working on. Now, if those articles don't work, I'll have to wait and schedule another time after the weekend rather than just going into it on my own. You should talk to your school's disability services office and see if someone can work with you as a reader for research. If not, you'll need to find someone willing to take time out at this rough end-of-semester time to help you, which I doubt will be easy. This seems to be a trend in technology, to update to an inaccessible version and after getting complaints, they work on retrofitting the update to allow for accessible technology. It's extremely frustrating, and I plain and simple hate it. Anyway, there's my take on it. It's not just you, Antonio, but all EBSCO library databases (such as NC Live, which is what I use). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Jewel On 12/1/12, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Hello, > Has anyone had any recent issues with the EBSCO electronic databases? > > I am accessing library databases from my school network, and the page > appears to be blank once I click on a link that says "federated databases." > > I'm using Firefox and cannot determine which version of it. > I am using jaws 12. > Something has gotten updated here. Either the browser or the screen reader. > Any experiences would be appreciated. > Antonio > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sat Dec 1 16:50:50 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 11:50:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with library databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What you are describing is a discussion of a complex system. I have learned, in part, from taking a course on deep thinking behind systems, is that, every system, has a trap and way out. The trap: Here, you are not able to access the databases. The way out, may be strait forward. Find out, if your library at your school owns the rights to using the databases such as EBSCO. If not, find out if a local public library or another college within your university owns the rights. You can usually access the databases throughout a truncated method. Go to your library's home page. Look for databases, or something that says "search all databases." Look for a A-Z list. Look for EBSCO. Press Shift+Enter, to open it in a new window. If your library's page is accessible, and they own the rights to the service, that page will appear in an accessible format. This is due to you entering it from your schools page directly. This technique was told to me by someone working in the field of accessible technology, as an assistive tech specialist. I was using EBSCO from my school's library last evening and had no problem. Hope this helps. Enjoy the rest of your day and weekend. Best wishes, William O'Donnell Sent from my iPad On Dec 1, 2012, at 11:04 AM, "Jewel" wrote: > Dear Antonio, > I've got some good news and some bad news...the good news is that the > EBSCO tech support people know about the problem and are working on > it. The bad news is that it will take a lot of time and in the > meantime, EBSCO library databases are inaccessible to JAWS users. This > is due to an update they installed over the Thanksgiving holiday. I, > too, was having trouble with my school's library database access. I > could put in search results, but the window would be blank after that. > This is *not* a JAWS issue, but due to an update that they made that > they didn't check with accessible technology before implementing. It > also is not going to make a difference what internet browser you use. > I've tried Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, and Google Chrome. None > work. > > Until they fix the problem that makes it inaccessible to the blind, we > will have to use readers for researching with EBSCO. This is extremely > annoying, I know. I had to schedule a three-hour research time with a > reader yesterday so I could get articles for a research paper I'm > working on. Now, if those articles don't work, I'll have to wait and > schedule another time after the weekend rather than just going into it > on my own. You should talk to your school's disability services office > and see if someone can work with you as a reader for research. If not, > you'll need to find someone willing to take time out at this rough > end-of-semester time to help you, which I doubt will be easy. > > This seems to be a trend in technology, to update to an inaccessible > version and after getting complaints, they work on retrofitting the > update to allow for accessible technology. It's extremely frustrating, > and I plain and simple hate it. > > Anyway, there's my take on it. It's not just you, Antonio, but all > EBSCO library databases (such as NC Live, which is what I use). > > Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, > Jewel > > On 12/1/12, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: >> Hello, >> Has anyone had any recent issues with the EBSCO electronic databases? >> >> I am accessing library databases from my school network, and the page >> appears to be blank once I click on a link that says "federated databases." >> >> I'm using Firefox and cannot determine which version of it. >> I am using jaws 12. >> Something has gotten updated here. Either the browser or the screen reader. >> Any experiences would be appreciated. >> Antonio >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 19:44:51 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 14:44:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility announcement In-Reply-To: <399BBF52-876D-4CE9-BAE2-3FC387FEC5F5@gmail.com> References: <011d01cdce53$0419a790$0c4cf6b0$@lbph.lib.md.us> <-4737712709878663810@unknownmsgid> <179BF35D4D134E12908A886CAFBC2D03@OwnerPC> <399BBF52-876D-4CE9-BAE2-3FC387FEC5F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001501cdcffc$5505bcc0$ff113640$@gmail.com> Jane, Great news! I'm glad to hear this from somebody who uses the app! As for Amazon, let's just keep up the pressure on them! Maybe if we put enough pressure on them they will make their Kindles accessible, but I'm not holding my breath for it. By the way, as far as I know the Nook readers themselves are still inaccessible, so they haven't solved the problem altogether as of yet. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jane Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 10:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility announcement I have the Nook app on my iPod. when they say that application is accessible, they mean it. You have to go to the Barns and Noble web site to create an account first--they on't allow you to do that from within the app--but once you do you can sign in, hit the Sync button, and get 4 free books. You are also given a nice tutorial that explains about the VoiceOver gestures that can be used to read books with the Nook application, It's ver similar to iBooks--just about identical. They seem to have taken a lot of time to make this app really truly work with VoiceOver. Now, if Amazon would do likewise ... and that includes not blocking books being read by VoiceOver ... Jane On Nov 30, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > hmm, how is it fully accessible? all hype about inaccessible nook and kindle around. So does this mean the menus will talk on these I devices? is it with voice over or their own talking synthesizer? Did they actually label all those visual buttons so its accessible? > > it would be exciting, but before we say its great, is it actually fullly accessible? > > -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 7:01 AM > To: mm-friends at acbradio.org ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list ; Blind Talk Mailing List > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Accessibility announcement > > This accessibility announcement came from the Maryland LBP H. Very excited! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From:* Mollyne Honor > *Date:* November 29, 2012, 12:00:20 PM EST > *To:* > *Subject:* *Accessibility announcement* > *Reply-To:* Mollyne Honor > > Buying, downloading and reading books and magazines using the Nook App > from Barnes & Noble is fully accessible on the iPhone, iPad and iPod. > > > > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-for-ipad-iphone-ipod-touch/379003 > 589 _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 19:47:12 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 14:47:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] Fwd: Accessibility announcement In-Reply-To: <001401cdcf09$34150320$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <011d01cdce53$0419a790$0c4cf6b0$@lbph.lib.md.us> <-4737712709878663810@unknownmsgid> <001401cdcf09$34150320$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <001c01cdcffc$a930ac60$fb920520$@gmail.com> Hi everyone, You may be interested in looking at this post from the Access Technology Blog. Please see below: -----Original Message----- From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 9:44 AM To: Blind Talk Mailing List Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Fwd: Accessibility announcement Good morning Chris and everyone, Please read a recent post to the NFB's Access Technology Blog concerning the accessibility of the Nook APP. While B&N has taken a step in the right direction this APP still does not give accessibility to textbooks. There are a number of other accessibility issues you should be aware of before pronouncing this app 100% usable. At least B&N has done more concerning the accessibility of its E-reading product than Amazon has. I hope we can work with all E-Book vendors to insure their products truly are 100% usable by the blind. For further details read Clara Vangerven's post at: https://nfb.org/blog/atblog/nook-app-ios Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "christopher nusbaum" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 6:01 AM Subject: [Blindtlk] Fwd: Accessibility announcement This accessibility announcement came from the Maryland LBP H. Very excited! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: *From:* Mollyne Honor *Date:* November 29, 2012, 12:00:20 PM EST *To:* *Subject:* *Accessibility announcement* *Reply-To:* Mollyne Honor Buying, downloading and reading books and magazines using the Nook App from Barnes & Noble is fully accessible on the iPhone, iPad and iPod. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-for-ipad-iphone-ipod-touch/379003589 _______________________________________________ blindtlk mailing list blindtlk at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.co m _______________________________________________ blindtlk mailing list blindtlk at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail .com From everett at everettgavel.com Sun Dec 2 19:34:38 2012 From: everett at everettgavel.com (Everett Gavel) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 12:34:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? References: Message-ID: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> Hello Again, All, Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national NFB convention had a presentation on the accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less accessible, and that even that supposedly accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or articles explaining such details, please? I'm thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. Thanks for any help with this. Strive On! Everett everett at everettgavel.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 20:05:02 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 12:05:02 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Can I access access 2010 with JAWS? Message-ID: <001501cdd0c8$518b9070$f4a2b150$@gmail.com> Hello all, Is the 2010 version of Microsoft access accessible with JAWS 14? How can I access the Access Database views like design view, and the datasheet view with JAWS? The reason I ask this question is because I need to complete an assignment in my Information Technology class, which is a database assignment in Access. Has anyone used this office product with JAWS? I looked on the help topics for JAWS 14, and it only gives relevant help on Access program but for the 2003 version. Did freedom Scientific drop support for accessing Access 2010, and they thought that accessing access with accessibility was not put accessorily in the scripts because blind people don't get access to the access program anymore? * Smile! * Any suggestions are appreciated. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 20:05:55 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 12:05:55 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> Message-ID: <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but there is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm not sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely limited, but that is another topic. The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher uploads there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get go, so I have to pull out all my technology. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Everett Gavel Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hello Again, All, Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national NFB convention had a presentation on the accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less accessible, and that even that supposedly accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or articles explaining such details, please? I'm thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. Thanks for any help with this. Strive On! Everett everett at everettgavel.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From lily2011a at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 21:47:53 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 16:47:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Tim, My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? Thank you On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his > colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a great > deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one > training all over the world. > > Tim > > > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < > JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com> wrote: > >> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this in >> an interview on a major news network. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >> sight. >> >> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use >> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >> sometimes >> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may >> think. >> >> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help >> the >> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and to >> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a lot >> of >> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active >> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader >> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for launching >> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's >> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >> available >> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >> >> Here's a little bit about how it works: >> Sound waves – like ripples in a pond – reflect differently off of all >> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to have >> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice of >> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over the >> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing >> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >> echolocation can provide. >> >> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The >> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >> echolocate. >> >> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your >> way >> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. >> With >> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and new >> opportunities. >> >> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this >> new >> book: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/review-from-in-the-center-of-the-roof/ >> >> Paperback edition: >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1478371080/ >> >> Accessible edition: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/echolocation-guide-msword-format/ >> >> Audiobook edition: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/audiobook/ >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would be >> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about >> learning echolocation. >> >> Thank you, >> Tim Johnson >> www.HumanEcholocation.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.johnson81%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From lily2011a at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 22:11:27 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 17:11:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hey Everett, As Brandon says, blackboard is just okay. George mason University love to post their assignments on there all the time. I have ran into the same issues with opening and downloading the PDF files. My professors like to use image text files for PDF. I'm not sure how to convert the imaged text documents into word without sighted assistance. If I were you, I'd contact your CSU professors ahead of time and ask if any of the stuff that they are planning to post on blackboard are image jet peg PDF files. Also, I found out that using the Jaws cursor on blackboard helps me navigate throughout my assignments more eficiently as well. Let me know if you need editional help and I'll see what I could find out. All the best, Lily On 12/2/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but there > > is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm not > sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely > limited, but that is another topic. > The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher uploads > > there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get go, > > so I have to pull out all my technology. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Everett Gavel > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hello Again, All, > > Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using > Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national > NFB convention had a presentation on the > accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a > few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less > accessible, and that even that supposedly > accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can > anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or > articles explaining such details, please? I'm > thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado > State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very > accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation > classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. > > Thanks for any help with this. > > > Strive On! > Everett > everett at everettgavel.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 22:17:50 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:17:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: If Blackboard lets you download the inaccessible PDF documents, you can make them accessible by sending them as attachments to convert at robobraille.org and putting "doc" in the subject line. This service is free and very good. You can also run the PDF through a program such as Open Book or Kurzweil. Arielle On 12/2/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > Hey Everett, > As Brandon says, blackboard is just okay. > George mason University love to post their assignments on there all > the time. I have ran into the same issues with opening and > downloading the PDF files. My professors like to use image text files > for PDF. I'm not sure how to convert the imaged text documents into > word without sighted assistance. If I were you, I'd contact your CSU > professors ahead of time and ask if any of the stuff that they are > planning to post on blackboard are image jet peg PDF files. Also, I > found out that using the Jaws cursor on blackboard helps me navigate > throughout my assignments more eficiently as well. > > Let me know if you need editional help and I'll see what I could find out. > All the best, > Lily > > On 12/2/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but >> there >> >> is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm not >> sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely >> limited, but that is another topic. >> The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher >> uploads >> >> there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get >> go, >> >> so I have to pull out all my technology. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Everett Gavel >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> Hello Again, All, >> >> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >> NFB convention had a presentation on the >> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >> accessible, and that even that supposedly >> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >> >> Thanks for any help with this. >> >> >> Strive On! >> Everett >> everett at everettgavel.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 22:18:43 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:18:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Ps: If you don't have the option of downloading the file directly you can still open the inaccessible file and save it to your computer by pressing Alt-F, A. Then convert it using one of the methods described above. Arielle On 12/2/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > If Blackboard lets you download the inaccessible PDF documents, you > can make them accessible by sending them as attachments to > convert at robobraille.org > and putting "doc" in the subject line. This service is free and very > good. You can also run the PDF through a program such as Open Book or > Kurzweil. > Arielle > > On 12/2/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> Hey Everett, >> As Brandon says, blackboard is just okay. >> George mason University love to post their assignments on there all >> the time. I have ran into the same issues with opening and >> downloading the PDF files. My professors like to use image text files >> for PDF. I'm not sure how to convert the imaged text documents into >> word without sighted assistance. If I were you, I'd contact your CSU >> professors ahead of time and ask if any of the stuff that they are >> planning to post on blackboard are image jet peg PDF files. Also, I >> found out that using the Jaws cursor on blackboard helps me navigate >> throughout my assignments more eficiently as well. >> >> Let me know if you need editional help and I'll see what I could find >> out. >> All the best, >> Lily >> >> On 12/2/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but >>> there >>> >>> is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm >>> not >>> sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely >>> limited, but that is another topic. >>> The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher >>> uploads >>> >>> there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get >>> go, >>> >>> so I have to pull out all my technology. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Everett Gavel >>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >>> >>> Hello Again, All, >>> >>> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >>> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >>> NFB convention had a presentation on the >>> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >>> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >>> accessible, and that even that supposedly >>> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >>> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >>> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >>> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >>> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >>> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >>> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >>> >>> Thanks for any help with this. >>> >>> >>> Strive On! >>> Everett >>> everett at everettgavel.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sun Dec 2 22:19:18 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 14:19:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] buy, sell, trade Message-ID: <1354486758.8285.YahooMailClassic@web160702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> It is Christmas and we all have things we want to: sell, buy, or trade. Well I have created a message board on two phone lines where blind people mix and mingle and where you can do just this. I have created a swop shop board on the Conversation Station and on Your Space. The number for the Conversation Station is 712-432-6499. The number for Your Space is 712-432-6498. You will first here a message informing you that if you wish to be blocked from this line, call this number. You then press the pound key to get to the main minue. You then press 1 to get to live rooms. Then press 7355 which spells sell to enter the Swop Shop room. Then press pound and star to get to the message board. To leave a message, press one. To listen to all messages, press two. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 23:02:13 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cdd0e1$12a8be00$37fa3a00$@gmail.com> Hi Lily, You may want to check out the Web site of Daniel Kish's company, World Access for the Blind, which can be found at www.worldaccessfortheblind.org. If you would like to contact Daniel directly, you can write to him at Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org. Hope this helps, Chris Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liliya Asadullina Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? Hello Tim, My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? Thank you On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of > his colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has > done a great deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers > one-on-one training all over the world. > > Tim > > > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < > JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com> wrote: > >> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like >> this in an interview on a major news network. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> Echolocation is the ability to "SEE" objects using sound instead of >> sight. >> >> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people >> use daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >> sometimes misunderstood, but it's far more realistic and much easier >> than you may think. >> >> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to >> help the blind community become more familiar with this mode of >> perception and to help people understand this very intriguing skill. >> There is often a lot of hesitation within the blind community to open >> up to attempting echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing >> practice of active echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, >> and gives the reader simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a >> starting point for launching you into a successful practice of active >> echolocation. The Beginner's Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and >> Visually Impaired is now available in large print paperback, >> accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >> >> Here's a little bit about how it works: >> Sound waves - like ripples in a pond - reflect differently off of all >> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >> Musicians will tell you that "reverb" causes each room or surface to >> have its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied >> practice of this skill, it's possible for people with visual >> impairments all over the world to become increasingly independent, >> supplementing their existing forms of orientation and mobility with >> the intrinsic awareness that echolocation can provide. >> >> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. >> The human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us >> with capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you >> can echolocate. >> >> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift >> your way of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your >> environment. >> With >> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and >> new opportunities. >> >> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about >> this new >> book: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/review-from-in-the-center-of-the-roo >> f/ >> >> Paperback edition: >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1478371080/ >> >> Accessible edition: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/echolocation-guide-msword-format/ >> >> Audiobook edition: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/audiobook/ >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would >> be happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations >> about learning echolocation. >> >> Thank you, >> Tim Johnson >> www.HumanEcholocation.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.johnson81%40g >> mail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From everett at everettgavel.com Sun Dec 2 23:09:18 2012 From: everett at everettgavel.com (Everett Gavel) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 16:09:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <24B3F5C9798F4663921A471CDA2D3967@Lisa> Hi Brandon, and all, Thanks, Brandon. I appreciate your help. Seriously. It's the encouragement I needed right about now. To be reminded that just because something is not yet accessible, should not be a reason to side-step it -- or even waste time fretting over it. Thanks for the common-sense reminder that I'm here to help change things for the better, not to simply wait for others to make those changes. :) Strive On! Everett ----- Original Message ----- > Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking > around to find things, but there is very little > I have found that can't be found with > persistence. I'm not sure why they don't switch > to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely > limited, but that is another topic. > The only difficulty I've had is downloading all > the PDFs my teacher uploads there, it takes for > ever and one or two are not accessible from the > get go, so I have to pull out all my technology. > From daviddod at buffalo.edu Sun Dec 2 23:29:28 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 18:29:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Diversity in Disability: Save-the-Date 2013 Symposium! Message-ID: Hello Everyone, On behalf of the Diversity in Disability Planning Committee (DDPC) at theUniversity at Buffalo (UB) I would like to present to you UB's second Diversity in Disability symposium: "Advocacy in Our Backyard". *Please note that this event is free, includes lunch, and is open to anyone wishing to participate! * *Diversity in Disability Symposium 2013 * *“Advocacy in Our Backyard” * *WHO:* *Bruce Darling* *President/CEO* Center for Disability Rights, Inc. *Community Organizer* ADAPT http://cdrnys.org/ *Dr. Lauren J. Lieberman, PhD.* *Director* Camp Abilities www.campabilities.org *Diana Landwehr * *Director of Support and Advocacy ** *Headway of Western NY Inc. http://www.headwayofwny.org/ *WHAT:* When one thinks of diversity what comes to mind? Usually, we think of race, religion, and ethnicity. This symposium, appropriate for students, faculty, and professionals, will explore "Diversity in Disability." Disability is not an obstacle; it's a difference! Hear presenters from our very own Western NY area, question panel participants, and see exhibits from Buffalo's one of a kind Museum of disABILITY History as we explore and grow to understand and appreciate these differences. This year's Diversity in Disability symposium is made possible with support from the Office of Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion, the Humanities Institute, and the New York State Disability Services Council. We would also like to thank UB's Disability Studies program for their support! If you would like to support this event financially, please contact me at daviddod at buffalo.edu. Find us on Facebook at: 2nd Annual Diversity in Disability Symposium: Advocacy in Our Backyard *WHERE:* Center for Tomorrow Flint & Service Center Roads University at Buffalo North Campus Amherst, NY 14260 *WHEN:* Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. Registration sign in begins at 8:30! *HOW: *Be looking for registration information coming soon! ** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you missed our symposium last year check out this video to get an idea of what this event will be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aNePAflvPk Please distribute this information to other interested people. David ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Save the Date Diversity in Disability Symposium 2013.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 180558 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Save the Date Diversity in Disability Symposium 2013 PDF.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 66348 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 00:37:39 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 19:37:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa><3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Liliya, Oh are you at george mason? if so what is your major? When do you graduate? I recall when I went to gmu before I transferred that they were just starting to use blackboard. I wanted to know the current state of accessibility; do you get textbooks on time and in a usable format? Please write me off list and share your experiences if you are a current or recent student. Yep, I heard professors love to put up files. Thankfully last semester I attended they use blackboard minimally; mainly to post announcements and grades, not documents. The issues I ran into back then like 7 years ago was the group chat feature and submission of assignments was not accessible; and when I went to marymount, it still was not accessible. I hate those inaccessible files. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hey Everett, As Brandon says, blackboard is just okay. George mason University love to post their assignments on there all the time. I have ran into the same issues with opening and downloading the PDF files. My professors like to use image text files for PDF. I'm not sure how to convert the imaged text documents into word without sighted assistance. If I were you, I'd contact your CSU professors ahead of time and ask if any of the stuff that they are planning to post on blackboard are image jet peg PDF files. Also, I found out that using the Jaws cursor on blackboard helps me navigate throughout my assignments more eficiently as well. Let me know if you need editional help and I'll see what I could find out. All the best, Lily On 12/2/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but > there > > is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm not > sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely > limited, but that is another topic. > The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher > uploads > > there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get > go, > > so I have to pull out all my technology. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Everett Gavel > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hello Again, All, > > Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using > Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national > NFB convention had a presentation on the > accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a > few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less > accessible, and that even that supposedly > accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can > anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or > articles explaining such details, please? I'm > thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado > State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very > accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation > classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. > > Thanks for any help with this. > > > Strive On! > Everett > everett at everettgavel.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 00:38:13 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 19:38:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email should be there. -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? Hello Tim, My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? Thank you On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his > colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a > great > deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one > training all over the world. > > Tim > > > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < > JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com> wrote: > >> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this in >> an interview on a major news network. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >> sight. >> >> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use >> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >> sometimes >> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may >> think. >> >> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help >> the >> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and to >> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a lot >> of >> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active >> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader >> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for launching >> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's >> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >> available >> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >> >> Here's a little bit about how it works: >> Sound waves – like ripples in a pond – reflect differently off of all >> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to have >> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice of >> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over the >> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing >> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >> echolocation can provide. >> >> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The >> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >> echolocate. >> >> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your >> way >> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. >> With >> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and new >> opportunities. >> >> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this >> new >> book: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/review-from-in-the-center-of-the-roof/ >> >> Paperback edition: >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1478371080/ >> >> Accessible edition: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/echolocation-guide-msword-format/ >> >> Audiobook edition: >> http://www.humanecholocation.com/audiobook/ >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would be >> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about >> learning echolocation. >> >> Thank you, >> Tim Johnson >> www.HumanEcholocation.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.johnson81%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 00:42:29 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 17:42:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Professors like to post image files because they can just scan printed documents and put the scanned images directly up on Blackboard. For older documents, it's usually a lot easier to get a print copy than it is to get an electronic copy that was generated directly in Adobe, and mainstream scanners just take a picture of the print without converting it to text. However, the suggestions I gave earlier for converting these files with RoboBraille or an OCR package should work. Arielle On 12/2/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Liliya, > Oh are you at george mason? if so what is your major? When do you graduate? > I recall when I went to gmu before I transferred that they were just > starting to use blackboard. > > I wanted to know the current state of accessibility; do you get textbooks on > > time and in a usable format? > Please write me off list and share your experiences if you are a current or > > recent student. Yep, I heard professors love to put up files. Thankfully > last semester I attended they use blackboard minimally; mainly to post > announcements and grades, not documents. The issues I ran into back then > like 7 years ago was the group chat feature and submission of assignments > was not accessible; and when I went to marymount, it still was not > accessible. > > I hate those inaccessible files. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Liliya Asadullina > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hey Everett, > As Brandon says, blackboard is just okay. > George mason University love to post their assignments on there all > the time. I have ran into the same issues with opening and > downloading the PDF files. My professors like to use image text files > for PDF. I'm not sure how to convert the imaged text documents into > word without sighted assistance. If I were you, I'd contact your CSU > professors ahead of time and ask if any of the stuff that they are > planning to post on blackboard are image jet peg PDF files. Also, I > found out that using the Jaws cursor on blackboard helps me navigate > throughout my assignments more eficiently as well. > > Let me know if you need editional help and I'll see what I could find out. > All the best, > Lily > > On 12/2/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but >> there >> >> is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm not >> sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely >> limited, but that is another topic. >> The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher >> uploads >> >> there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get >> go, >> >> so I have to pull out all my technology. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Everett Gavel >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> Hello Again, All, >> >> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >> NFB convention had a presentation on the >> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >> accessible, and that even that supposedly >> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >> >> Thanks for any help with this. >> >> >> Strive On! >> Everett >> everett at everettgavel.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com Mon Dec 3 01:13:45 2012 From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 20:13:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The 2012 Christmas Season Is Here At Last, And You're Invited To Celebrate With Audio Access FM Starting Tonight Message-ID: Hello Everyone! It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. Everywhere you ggo! Well, if you're living in New York near my residence, it doesn't look like Christmas, and in some places because of the hurricane, Santa won't even be able to climb down a chimney to deliver presents. But no matter where you are in the world - New York, Massachusetts, Florida, Australia, Africa, Iceland, or The Ivory Coast, if you have a computer or any other electronic device capable of connecting to an internet stream, then I invite you to attend a Christmas party open to anyone in the world! Audio Access FM is prroud to bring you The 24 Days Of Christmas, Celebrating The Sounds Of The Season! The fun begins tonight, yes, tonight, Sunday, December 2, 2012 at exactly 8:30PM eastern. Hear words from The Audio Access FM Station manager, then break out the popcorn, light up that Christmas tree if you have one, and tune in foor four unforgettable Christmas Movies brought to you by The Theater Of The Mind crew. Four movies, all fast paced, all for the family, and all described so that a visual picture is unnecessary. The movies we'll be airing in this order are: Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer, starring, narrated bby, and songs performed by Burl Ives, As Originally Created And Released In 1964 Frosty The Snowman, featuring Jimmy Durante on vocals Miracle On 34th Street and finally A Christmas Story Described Then once the movies have finished airing, The Audio Access FM Christmas Jukebox comes alive, and from the time A Christmas Story ends tonight until the end of December 25, when a live or syndicated presentation is not being aired, tune in to hear all of your holiday favorites. From rock to pop, from the classics to newer sounding tunes, you'll hear a little bit of everything as we make spirits bright during this holiday season. Also, find out how you can leave a holiday greeting for the listeners and/or your friends and family, as well as make a special dedication for the holidays to the one you love, and tell us what time you'd like it played to ensure they hear it. There's also an event to replace our huge Make A Wish Fund raising event called The 12 Days Of Giving. More details will be released about that tomorrow. But you'll want to either... Follow audioaccessfm or djdrocks on twitter Subscribe to our announcements list if you're not already on it by visiting http://www.audioaccessfm.com/list.php or, and this is the best way to ensure you don't miss a thing... Keep your computers, I Phones and any other listening devices you have tuned in to Audio Access FM, listen in either by going to http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php or at http://www.audioaccess.fm It doesn't matter how you keep informed or what tools you use to listen. The most important thing you can do is keep us close over these next few days, as we celebrate the 2012 holiday season together with great programming, awesome holiday favorites, some cool prizes, and yes, we even have some special presents we hope to be giving to you as our listeners as a thank you for being so loyal and patient with us through some of the technical struggles we've encountered since the birthday. But this holiday celebration is going to be up lifting and lots of fun, so break out those jinglebells, and crank up the sounds of the season from the online station that stretches the boundaries of sound entertainment by filling your lives with sweet ear candy canes, Audio Access FM! So tune in tonight, 8:30PM eastern sharp, and let the holiday celebrations begin! >From David Dunphy, station manager, Audio Access FM From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com Mon Dec 3 01:31:54 2012 From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 20:31:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Last Message About This But A Correction Must Be Made Message-ID: Hi All! The Audio Access FM Holiday programming will begin at 9 PM eastern, not 8:30PM eastern as originally sent out. My apologies for sending out the wrong draft of the message. >From David From tim.johnson81 at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 13:21:02 2012 From: tim.johnson81 at gmail.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 08:21:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people interested in echolocation. Tim http://www.HumanEcholocation.com On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email > should be there. > > -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > > Hello Tim, > My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in > touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? > Thank you > > On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > >> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his >> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a >> great >> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one >> training all over the world. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < >> JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> >> wrote: >> >> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this in >>> an interview on a major news network. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ______________________________**__________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >>> >>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >>> sight. >>> >>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use >>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >>> sometimes >>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may >>> think. >>> >>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help >>> the >>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and to >>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a lot >>> of >>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active >>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader >>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for launching >>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's >>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >>> available >>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >>> >>> Here's a little bit about how it works: >>> Sound waves – like ripples in a pond – reflect differently off of all >>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to have >>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice of >>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over the >>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing >>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >>> echolocation can provide. >>> >>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The >>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >>> echolocate. >>> >>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your >>> way >>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. >>> With >>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and new >>> opportunities. >>> >>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this >>> new >>> book: >>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** >>> of-the-roof/ >>> >>> Paperback edition: >>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ >>> >>> Accessible edition: >>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ >>> >>> Audiobook edition: >>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ >>> >>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would be >>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about >>> learning echolocation. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Tim Johnson >>> www.HumanEcholocation.com >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >>> johnson81%40gmail.com >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> lily2011a%40gmail.com >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > johnson81%40gmail.com > From daviddod at buffalo.edu Mon Dec 3 15:40:43 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 10:40:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Yorker Article Relating to Disabilities and Difference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Everyone, This is a very interesting article recently published in The New Yorker that has to do with disability and difference. I do not necessarily agree with everything in the article but I really found it thought provoking. If you would like I would love to know some of your thoughts on it. Though please do not feel obligated. http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/11/19/121119crbo_books_heller David ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu -- ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu From lily2011a at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 01:52:49 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 20:52:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Thanks a bunch. Lily On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org > > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people > interested in echolocation. > > Tim > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com > > > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email >> should be there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> Hello Tim, >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? >> Thank you >> >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: >> >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a >>> great >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one >>> training all over the world. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < >>> JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this >>> in >>>> an interview on a major news network. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >>>> >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >>>> sight. >>>> >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >>>> sometimes >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may >>>> think. >>>> >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help >>>> the >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and >>>> to >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a >>>> lot >>>> of >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for >>>> launching >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >>>> available >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >>>> >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: >>>> Sound waves – like ripples in a pond – reflect differently off of all >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to >>>> have >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice >>>> of >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over >>>> the >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >>>> echolocation can provide. >>>> >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >>>> echolocate. >>>> >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your >>>> way >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. >>>> With >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and >>>> new >>>> opportunities. >>>> >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this >>>> new >>>> book: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** >>>> of-the-roof/ >>>> >>>> Paperback edition: >>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ >>>> >>>> Accessible edition: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ >>>> >>>> Audiobook edition: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ >>>> >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would >>>> be >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about >>>> learning echolocation. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Tim Johnson >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >>>> johnson81%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> lily2011a%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >> johnson81%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From lily2011a at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 02:00:24 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 21:00:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <3F094D608B32427F9008C9B85B23688D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Thank you Arielle. I will definitely try these options out. Lily On 12/2/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Professors like to post image files because they can just scan printed > documents and put the scanned images directly up on Blackboard. For > older documents, it's usually a lot easier to get a print copy than it > is to get an electronic copy that was generated directly in Adobe, and > mainstream scanners just take a picture of the print without > converting it to text. However, the suggestions I gave earlier for > converting these files with RoboBraille or an OCR package should work. > Arielle > > On 12/2/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Liliya, >> Oh are you at george mason? if so what is your major? When do you >> graduate? >> I recall when I went to gmu before I transferred that they were just >> starting to use blackboard. >> >> I wanted to know the current state of accessibility; do you get textbooks >> on >> >> time and in a usable format? >> Please write me off list and share your experiences if you are a current >> or >> >> recent student. Yep, I heard professors love to put up files. Thankfully >> last semester I attended they use blackboard minimally; mainly to post >> announcements and grades, not documents. The issues I ran into back then >> like 7 years ago was the group chat feature and submission of >> assignments >> was not accessible; and when I went to marymount, it still was not >> accessible. >> >> I hate those inaccessible files. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> Hey Everett, >> As Brandon says, blackboard is just okay. >> George mason University love to post their assignments on there all >> the time. I have ran into the same issues with opening and >> downloading the PDF files. My professors like to use image text files >> for PDF. I'm not sure how to convert the imaged text documents into >> word without sighted assistance. If I were you, I'd contact your CSU >> professors ahead of time and ask if any of the stuff that they are >> planning to post on blackboard are image jet peg PDF files. Also, I >> found out that using the Jaws cursor on blackboard helps me navigate >> throughout my assignments more eficiently as well. >> >> Let me know if you need editional help and I'll see what I could find >> out. >> All the best, >> Lily >> >> On 12/2/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Blackboard is OK, it takes a little poking around to find things, but >>> there >>> >>> is very little I have found that can't be found with persistence. I'm >>> not >>> sure why they don't switch to Etudes, because Blackboard is extremely >>> limited, but that is another topic. >>> The only difficulty I've had is downloading all the PDFs my teacher >>> uploads >>> >>> there, it takes for ever and one or two are not accessible from the get >>> go, >>> >>> so I have to pull out all my technology. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Everett Gavel >>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >>> >>> Hello Again, All, >>> >>> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >>> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >>> NFB convention had a presentation on the >>> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >>> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >>> accessible, and that even that supposedly >>> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >>> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >>> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >>> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >>> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >>> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >>> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >>> >>> Thanks for any help with this. >>> >>> >>> Strive On! >>> Everett >>> everett at everettgavel.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 02:13:42 2012 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 18:13:42 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello List. Interesting topic indeed. It is My understanding that the blind use Echo location already. here's the thing, if you are using a cane, and doing so properly, you are likely using echo location. I know that some people like to make a clicking soung with their tongue in order to achieve this, but I personally find it a bit awkward to use in social situations (what you choose to use in the comfort of your own dwelling is completely up to you). I think you can use echo location with any type of cane, but I find it better to use a cane that has a metel tip much like the long white NFB canes or an Iowa cane. The nice thing about using a cane is that you don't need to stop mid-conversation to "click", rather you can "tap" along and have a conversation with your professort, co-worker, or parent. Thanks, Darian On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org > > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people > interested in echolocation. > > Tim > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com > > > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email >> should be there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> Hello Tim, >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? >> Thank you >> >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: >> >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a >>> great >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one >>> training all over the world. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < >>> JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this >>> in >>>> an interview on a major news network. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >>>> >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >>>> sight. >>>> >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >>>> sometimes >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may >>>> think. >>>> >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help >>>> the >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and >>>> to >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a >>>> lot >>>> of >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for >>>> launching >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >>>> available >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >>>> >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: >>>> Sound waves – like ripples in a pond – reflect differently off of all >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to >>>> have >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice >>>> of >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over >>>> the >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >>>> echolocation can provide. >>>> >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >>>> echolocate. >>>> >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your >>>> way >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. >>>> With >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and >>>> new >>>> opportunities. >>>> >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this >>>> new >>>> book: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** >>>> of-the-roof/ >>>> >>>> Paperback edition: >>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ >>>> >>>> Accessible edition: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ >>>> >>>> Audiobook edition: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ >>>> >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would >>>> be >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about >>>> learning echolocation. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Tim Johnson >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >>>> johnson81%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> lily2011a%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >> johnson81%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities http://www.nfb.org/fairwages “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…” From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Tue Dec 4 12:25:19 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:25:19 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> , Message-ID: It does seem wierd and I agree with Darion that we use it with our canes already. That's one of the disadvantages of using a guide dog, because you don't get that information. I don't want to start an argument on which is better, but this particular reason is another reason to stick with the cane. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? Hello List. Interesting topic indeed. It is My understanding that the blind use Echo location already. here's the thing, if you are using a cane, and doing so properly, you are likely using echo location. I know that some people like to make a clicking soung with their tongue in order to achieve this, but I personally find it a bit awkward to use in social situations (what you choose to use in the comfort of your own dwelling is completely up to you). I think you can use echo location with any type of cane, but I find it better to use a cane that has a metel tip much like the long white NFB canes or an Iowa cane. The nice thing about using a cane is that you don't need to stop mid-conversation to "click", rather you can "tap" along and have a conversation with your professort, co-worker, or parent. Thanks, Darian On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org > > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people > interested in echolocation. > > Tim > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com > > > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email >> should be there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> Hello Tim, >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? >> Thank you >> >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: >> >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a >>> great >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one >>> training all over the world. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < >>> JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this >>> in >>>> an interview on a major news network. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >>>> >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >>>> sight. >>>> >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >>>> sometimes >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may >>>> think. >>>> >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help >>>> the >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and >>>> to >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a >>>> lot >>>> of >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for >>>> launching >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >>>> available >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >>>> >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: >>>> Sound waves – like ripples in a pond – reflect differently off of all >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to >>>> have >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice >>>> of >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over >>>> the >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >>>> echolocation can provide. >>>> >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >>>> echolocate. >>>> >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your >>>> way >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. >>>> With >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and >>>> new >>>> opportunities. >>>> >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this >>>> new >>>> book: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** >>>> of-the-roof/ >>>> >>>> Paperback edition: >>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ >>>> >>>> Accessible edition: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ >>>> >>>> Audiobook edition: >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ >>>> >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would >>>> be >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about >>>> learning echolocation. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Tim Johnson >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >>>> johnson81%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> lily2011a%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >> johnson81%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities http://www.nfb.org/fairwages “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…” _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Dec 4 12:52:43 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:52:43 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121204044940.01cb5738@comcast.net> Good morning, Joshua, Why must we frame that question in terms of which means of detection is "better?" In some cases the good ol' tongue cclick, is what doc ordered, while in others the metal tip works best for what you happen to be doing. At 04:25 AM 12/4/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: >It does seem wierd and I agree with Darion that >we use it with our canes already. >That's one of the disadvantages of using a guide >dog, because you don't get that information. >I don't want to start an argument on which is >better, but this particular reason is another reason to stick with the cane. >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:13 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >Hello List. Interesting topic indeed. It is My understanding that >the blind use Echo location already. > here's the thing, if you are using a cane, and doing so properly, >you are likely using echo location. > I know that some people like to make a clicking soung with their >tongue in order to achieve this, but I personally find it a bit >awkward to use in social situations (what you choose to use in the >comfort of your own dwelling is completely up to you). > I think you can use echo location with any type of cane, but I find >it better to use a cane that has a metel tip much like the long >white NFB canes or an Iowa cane. > The nice thing about using a cane is that you don't need to stop >mid-conversation to "click", rather you can "tap" > along and have a conversation with your professort, co-worker, or parent. > > Thanks, > Darian > > >On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: > > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org > > > > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people > > interested in echolocation. > > > > Tim > > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett > > wrote: > > > >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email > >> should be there. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina > >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM > >> > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >> > >> Hello Tim, > >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in > >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? > >> Thank you > >> > >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > >> > >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his > >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a > >>> great > >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one > >>> training all over the world. > >>> > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < > >>> > JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this > >>> in > >>>> an interview on a major news network. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> ______________________________**__________ > >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ > >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] > >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >>>> > >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of > >>>> sight. > >>>> > >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use > >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is > >>>> sometimes > >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may > >>>> think. > >>>> > >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help > >>>> the > >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and > >>>> to > >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a > >>>> lot > >>>> of > >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting > >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active > >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader > >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for > >>>> launching > >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's > >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now > >>>> available > >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. > >>>> > >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: > >>>> Sound waves ­ like ripples in a pond ­ reflect differently off of all > >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to > >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. > >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to > >>>> have > >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice > >>>> of > >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over > >>>> the > >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing > >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that > >>>> echolocation can provide. > >>>> > >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The > >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with > >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can > >>>> echolocate. > >>>> > >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your > >>>> way > >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. > >>>> With > >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and > >>>> new > >>>> opportunities. > >>>> > >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this > >>>> new > >>>> book: > >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** > >>>> > of-the-roof/ > >>>> > >>>> Paperback edition: > >>>> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ > >>>> > >>>> Accessible edition: > >>>> > http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ > >>>> > >>>> Audiobook edition: > >>>> > http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ > >>>> > >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would > >>>> be > >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about > >>>> learning echolocation. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you, > >>>> Tim Johnson > >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >>>> > jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > >>>> > johnson81%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >>> > lily2011a%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > >> > johnson81%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > >-- >Darian Smith > > >Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund >via your phone bill. > >The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities > >http://www.nfb.org/fairwages > > >“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is >made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. >These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our >knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment ” > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Dec 4 12:49:23 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:49:23 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121204044709.01c9a5c8@comcast.net> Good morning, Joshua, Why do we need to frame the question in terms of which is better? Can't we just acccept that both means have their very good points, and sometimes we use the good ol' tongue click, while other times the metal tip, suffices? Car At 04:25 AM 12/4/2012, you wrote: >It does seem wierd and I agree with Darion that >we use it with our canes already. >That's one of the disadvantages of using a guide >dog, because you don't get that information. >I don't want to start an argument on which is >better, but this particular reason is another reason to stick with the cane. >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:13 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >Hello List. Interesting topic indeed. It is My understanding that >the blind use Echo location already. > here's the thing, if you are using a cane, and doing so properly, >you are likely using echo location. > I know that some people like to make a clicking soung with their >tongue in order to achieve this, but I personally find it a bit >awkward to use in social situations (what you choose to use in the >comfort of your own dwelling is completely up to you). > I think you can use echo location with any type of cane, but I find >it better to use a cane that has a metel tip much like the long >white NFB canes or an Iowa cane. > The nice thing about using a cane is that you don't need to stop >mid-conversation to "click", rather you can "tap" > along and have a conversation with your professort, co-worker, or parent. > > Thanks, > Darian > > >On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: > > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org > > > > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people > > interested in echolocation. > > > > Tim > > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett > > wrote: > > > >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email > >> should be there. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina > >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM > >> > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >> > >> Hello Tim, > >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in > >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? > >> Thank you > >> > >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > >> > >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of his > >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a > >>> great > >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one > >>> training all over the world. > >>> > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < > >>> > JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like this > >>> in > >>>> an interview on a major news network. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> ______________________________**__________ > >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ > >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] > >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >>>> > >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of > >>>> sight. > >>>> > >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people use > >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is > >>>> sometimes > >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you may > >>>> think. > >>>> > >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to help > >>>> the > >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception and > >>>> to > >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a > >>>> lot > >>>> of > >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting > >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of active > >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the reader > >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for > >>>> launching > >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The Beginner's > >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now > >>>> available > >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. > >>>> > >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: > >>>> Sound waves ­ like ripples in a pond ­ reflect differently off of all > >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to > >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. > >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to > >>>> have > >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied practice > >>>> of > >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all over > >>>> the > >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their existing > >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that > >>>> echolocation can provide. > >>>> > >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. The > >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with > >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can > >>>> echolocate. > >>>> > >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift your > >>>> way > >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your environment. > >>>> With > >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and > >>>> new > >>>> opportunities. > >>>> > >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about this > >>>> new > >>>> book: > >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** > >>>> > of-the-roof/ > >>>> > >>>> Paperback edition: > >>>> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ > >>>> > >>>> Accessible edition: > >>>> > http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ > >>>> > >>>> Audiobook edition: > >>>> > http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ > >>>> > >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I would > >>>> be > >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations about > >>>> learning echolocation. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you, > >>>> Tim Johnson > >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >>>> > jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > >>>> > johnson81%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >>> > lily2011a%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > >> > johnson81%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > >-- >Darian Smith > > >Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund >via your phone bill. > >The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities > >http://www.nfb.org/fairwages > > >“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is >made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. >These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our >knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment ” > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 17:52:04 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:52:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation Message-ID: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> Hi all, I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I have to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the presenation saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the powerpoint is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space bar as a short cut? Thanks From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 18:51:42 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:51:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Preparing For Final Exams Message-ID: <50be4657.4687ec0a.6c89.7379@mx.google.com> Hi everyone I hope you're doing well. I am preparing for my final exams this week. My semester ends on Thursday December 13th, 2012. I have A's in all of my classes. From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 18:59:36 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:59:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> Message-ID: <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I am assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. Cindy Bennett clb5590 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I have to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the presenation saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the powerpoint is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space bar as a short cut? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From rosz1878 at fredonia.edu Tue Dec 4 19:10:44 2012 From: rosz1878 at fredonia.edu (Lisa E Roszyk) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:10:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell 99 percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if that helps On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: > I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I am assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. > > Cindy Bennett > > clb5590 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I have to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the presenation saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the powerpoint is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space bar as a short cut? Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:15:07 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:15:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria><65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Hi, I do not need to be able to read what is on the slide because I have not cards for myself, but I will need to change the slides as I go. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa E Roszyk" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation > If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond > better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell > 99 > percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if > that helps > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: >> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are > using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I > am > assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is > not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope > they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the > slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the > confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. >> >> Cindy Bennett >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I have > to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the presenation > saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the powerpoint > is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space > bar as a short cut? Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 20:18:02 2012 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:18:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Message-ID: Gloria and all, What Cindy said is correct. Currently, microsoft office products are not compatible with Voice Over. This is one of those cases that the best option would be for someone else to switch the slides. since you are familiar with your presentation, I'd either ask for a volunteer via email today, or ask the professor if they have a suggestion. If this is a class presentation, you want to make sure everyone is benefiting from it. Once you have whoever is going to be switching, you can tell them you give a short nod when you are ready for them to change the slide. I find that nodding, or looking at the person is less disrupting than saying something verbally. Hope this helps. Mary On 12/4/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > I do not need to be able to read what is on the slide because I have not > cards for myself, but I will need to change the slides as I go. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa E Roszyk" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation > > >> If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond >> better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell >> 99 >> percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if >> that helps >> >> On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: >>> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are >> using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I >> am >> assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is >> not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope >> they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the >> slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the >> confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. >>> >>> Cindy Bennett >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I >>>> have >> to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the >> presenation >> saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the >> powerpoint >> is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space >> bar as a short cut? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 20:23:24 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:23:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Message-ID: Is there a simple keystroke, like space, that can be used to switch slides? It shouldn't matter if VoiceOver is able to communicate the change of slide, as long as there is a keystroke that reliably works. I have never given a presentation with a Mac, but I have with PC's that didn't have JAWS installed and I just pressed space to go to the next slide and it was fine. Arielle On 12/4/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Gloria and all, > What Cindy said is correct. Currently, microsoft office products are > not compatible with Voice Over. This is one of those cases that the > best option would be for someone else to switch the slides. since you > are familiar with your presentation, I'd either ask for a volunteer > via email today, or ask the professor if they have a suggestion. If > this is a class presentation, you want to make sure everyone is > benefiting from it. Once you have whoever is going to be switching, > you can tell them you give a short nod when you are ready for them to > change the slide. I find that nodding, or looking at the person is > less disrupting than saying something verbally. > Hope this helps. > Mary > > On 12/4/12, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> I do not need to be able to read what is on the slide because I have not >> cards for myself, but I will need to change the slides as I go. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lisa E Roszyk" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation >> >> >>> If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond >>> better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell >>> 99 >>> percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if >>> that helps >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: >>>> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are >>> using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I >>> am >>> assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is >>> not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope >>> they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the >>> slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the >>> confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. >>>> >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I >>>>> have >>> to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the >>> presenation >>> saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the >>> powerpoint >>> is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space >>> bar as a short cut? Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > — > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 20:26:19 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:26:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria><65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com><33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Message-ID: <24E6AB677A22406D8C267CA7A791CD13@Gloria> Thanks! I have gottten it figured out with my professor. If I just press the space bar, it will move between slides. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Fernandez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation Gloria and all, What Cindy said is correct. Currently, microsoft office products are not compatible with Voice Over. This is one of those cases that the best option would be for someone else to switch the slides. since you are familiar with your presentation, I'd either ask for a volunteer via email today, or ask the professor if they have a suggestion. If this is a class presentation, you want to make sure everyone is benefiting from it. Once you have whoever is going to be switching, you can tell them you give a short nod when you are ready for them to change the slide. I find that nodding, or looking at the person is less disrupting than saying something verbally. Hope this helps. Mary On 12/4/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > I do not need to be able to read what is on the slide because I have not > cards for myself, but I will need to change the slides as I go. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa E Roszyk" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation > > >> If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond >> better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell >> 99 >> percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if >> that helps >> >> On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: >>> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are >> using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I >> am >> assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is >> not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope >> they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the >> slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the >> confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. >>> >>> Cindy Bennett >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I >>>> have >> to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the >> presenation >> saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the >> powerpoint >> is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space >> bar as a short cut? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 21:45:39 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:45:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria><65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com><33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Message-ID: <59F8119B599F4B45BAA397B5DF2ABAAA@Gloria> Hi, My instructor says all you have to do is press the space bar to move between slies ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation Is there a simple keystroke, like space, that can be used to switch slides? It shouldn't matter if VoiceOver is able to communicate the change of slide, as long as there is a keystroke that reliably works. I have never given a presentation with a Mac, but I have with PC's that didn't have JAWS installed and I just pressed space to go to the next slide and it was fine. Arielle On 12/4/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Gloria and all, > What Cindy said is correct. Currently, microsoft office products are > not compatible with Voice Over. This is one of those cases that the > best option would be for someone else to switch the slides. since you > are familiar with your presentation, I'd either ask for a volunteer > via email today, or ask the professor if they have a suggestion. If > this is a class presentation, you want to make sure everyone is > benefiting from it. Once you have whoever is going to be switching, > you can tell them you give a short nod when you are ready for them to > change the slide. I find that nodding, or looking at the person is > less disrupting than saying something verbally. > Hope this helps. > Mary > > On 12/4/12, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> I do not need to be able to read what is on the slide because I have not >> cards for myself, but I will need to change the slides as I go. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lisa E Roszyk" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation >> >> >>> If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond >>> better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell >>> 99 >>> percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if >>> that helps >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: >>>> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are >>> using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I >>> am >>> assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is >>> not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope >>> they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the >>> slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the >>> confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. >>>> >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I >>>>> have >>> to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the >>> presenation >>> saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the >>> powerpoint >>> is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space >>> bar as a short cut? Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > — > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 22:50:31 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:50:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20121204044940.01cb5738@comcast.net> References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20121204044940.01cb5738@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi all, It's true that we can get a lot of good echo information from our canes. In fact, my understanding is that Dan Kish advocates using echolocation in conjunction with a cane rather than instead of using a cane. To be fair, there are certain activities, such as bike riding or skateboarding, where using a cane is not very helpful and there are limits to how much information we can glean from our canes; i.e. the cane can't tell us about overhanging objects. If echolocation would allow us to perceive overhanging objects or to ride a bike safely, detecting obstacles and keeping oneself oriented without a cane, then I would be all for it. Ben Underwood, a blind teen who was featured on several national TV shows talking about echolocation, claimed he could ride a bike and maybe even skateboard using echolocation. Unfortunately he did not use a cane in conjunction with echolocating and I imagine there are some situations where the tactile feedback from a cane would still be superior to what we would get by listening. As for the social awkwardness of clicking one's tongue, I see your point, but if you think about it, is tongue clicking any more or less weird than swinging a big stick on the ground in front of you? Obviously our canes call attention to us too, and we just have to put up with that in order to have the safety and efficiency of travel that a cane provides. In a different land where all blind people got around by clicking their tongues, the odd one who used a cane instead would be perceived as being strange etc. It's just something to think about. Either way, whether we use a cane, guide dog, echolocation, sighted guide or any combination of these, we will look a little different. Ultimately the choice of technique should depend on how well the technique ensures safe, independent and efficient travel in a given situation. (I would still consider travel with a blind or sighted guide to be "independent" if you control where you are going, who you are going with, and are aware of what is around you). Best, Arielle On 12/4/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Joshua, > > Why must we frame that question in terms of which > means of detection is "better?" In some cases the > good ol' tongue cclick, is what doc ordered, > while in others the metal tip works best for what > you happen to be doing. At 04:25 AM 12/4/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: >>It does seem wierd and I agree with Darion that >>we use it with our canes already. >>That's one of the disadvantages of using a guide >>dog, because you don't get that information. >>I don't want to start an argument on which is >>better, but this particular reason is another reason to stick with the >> cane. >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] >>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:13 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >>Hello List. Interesting topic indeed. It is My understanding that >>the blind use Echo location already. >> here's the thing, if you are using a cane, and doing so properly, >>you are likely using echo location. >> I know that some people like to make a clicking soung with their >>tongue in order to achieve this, but I personally find it a bit >>awkward to use in social situations (what you choose to use in the >>comfort of your own dwelling is completely up to you). >> I think you can use echo location with any type of cane, but I find >>it better to use a cane that has a metel tip much like the long >>white NFB canes or an Iowa cane. >> The nice thing about using a cane is that you don't need to stop >>mid-conversation to "click", rather you can "tap" >> along and have a conversation with your professort, co-worker, or >> parent. >> >> Thanks, >> Darian >> >> >>On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: >> > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: >> > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org >> > >> > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people >> > interested in echolocation. >> > >> > Tim >> > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> > wrote: >> > >> >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his email >> >> should be there. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM >> >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >> >> >> Hello Tim, >> >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in >> >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? >> >> Thank you >> >> >> >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: >> >> >> >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of >> >>> his >> >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done a >> >>> great >> >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one >> >>> training all over the world. >> >>> >> >>> Tim >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < >> >>> >> JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like >> >>> this >> >>> in >> >>>> an interview on a major news network. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> ______________________________**__________ >> >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson [ >> >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM >> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? >> >>>> >> >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of >> >>>> sight. >> >>>> >> >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people >> >>>> use >> >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is >> >>>> sometimes >> >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you >> >>>> may >> >>>> think. >> >>>> >> >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to >> >>>> help >> >>>> the >> >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception >> >>>> and >> >>>> to >> >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often a >> >>>> lot >> >>>> of >> >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting >> >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of >> >>>> active >> >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the >> >>>> reader >> >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for >> >>>> launching >> >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The >> >>>> Beginner's >> >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now >> >>>> available >> >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. >> >>>> >> >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: >> >>>> Sound waves ­ like ripples in a pond ­ reflect differently off of >> >>>> all >> >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to >> >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. >> >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface to >> >>>> have >> >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied >> >>>> practice >> >>>> of >> >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all >> >>>> over >> >>>> the >> >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their >> >>>> existing >> >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that >> >>>> echolocation can provide. >> >>>> >> >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. >> >>>> The >> >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with >> >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can >> >>>> echolocate. >> >>>> >> >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift >> >>>> your >> >>>> way >> >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your >> >>>> environment. >> >>>> With >> >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities and >> >>>> new >> >>>> opportunities. >> >>>> >> >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about >> >>>> this >> >>>> new >> >>>> book: >> >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** >> >>>> >> of-the-roof/ >> >>>> >> >>>> Paperback edition: >> >>>> >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/ >> >>>> >> >>>> Accessible edition: >> >>>> >> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/ >> >>>> >> >>>> Audiobook edition: >> >>>> >> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/ >> >>>> >> >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I >> >>>> would >> >>>> be >> >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations >> >>>> about >> >>>> learning echolocation. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thank you, >> >>>> Tim Johnson >> >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >>>> >> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >> >>>> >> johnson81%40gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >>> >> lily2011a%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >> >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** >> >> >> johnson81%40gmail.com >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >>-- >>Darian Smith >> >> >>Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund >>via your phone bill. >> >>The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities >> >>http://www.nfb.org/fairwages >> >> >>“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is >>made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. >>These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our >>knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…” >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 22:50:32 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 17:50:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with library databases References: Message-ID: Thanks Jewel, Good to know what is going on before I sped months with my school trying to figure this out on my own. This is great information to know. Antonio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with library databases > Dear Antonio, > I've got some good news and some bad news...the good news is that the > EBSCO tech support people know about the problem and are working on > it. The bad news is that it will take a lot of time and in the > meantime, EBSCO library databases are inaccessible to JAWS users. This > is due to an update they installed over the Thanksgiving holiday. I, > too, was having trouble with my school's library database access. I > could put in search results, but the window would be blank after that. > This is *not* a JAWS issue, but due to an update that they made that > they didn't check with accessible technology before implementing. It > also is not going to make a difference what internet browser you use. > I've tried Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, and Google Chrome. None > work. > > Until they fix the problem that makes it inaccessible to the blind, we > will have to use readers for researching with EBSCO. This is extremely > annoying, I know. I had to schedule a three-hour research time with a > reader yesterday so I could get articles for a research paper I'm > working on. Now, if those articles don't work, I'll have to wait and > schedule another time after the weekend rather than just going into it > on my own. You should talk to your school's disability services office > and see if someone can work with you as a reader for research. If not, > you'll need to find someone willing to take time out at this rough > end-of-semester time to help you, which I doubt will be easy. > > This seems to be a trend in technology, to update to an inaccessible > version and after getting complaints, they work on retrofitting the > update to allow for accessible technology. It's extremely frustrating, > and I plain and simple hate it. > > Anyway, there's my take on it. It's not just you, Antonio, but all > EBSCO library databases (such as NC Live, which is what I use). > > Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, > Jewel > > On 12/1/12, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: >> Hello, >> Has anyone had any recent issues with the EBSCO electronic databases? >> >> I am accessing library databases from my school network, and the page >> appears to be blank once I click on a link that says "federated >> databases." >> >> I'm using Firefox and cannot determine which version of it. >> I am using jaws 12. >> Something has gotten updated here. Either the browser or the screen >> reader. >> Any experiences would be appreciated. >> Antonio >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From wmodnl at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 23:02:26 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 18:02:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Message-ID: What I have done in the past: Make your bulleted list in Braille. Then, have the professor change the slides, and read your titles, as a pointer. The pointer will help you, should you get nervous. Hope this helps. Sent from my iPad On Dec 4, 2012, at 3:18 PM, "Mary Fernandez" wrote: > Gloria and all, > What Cindy said is correct. Currently, microsoft office products are > not compatible with Voice Over. This is one of those cases that the > best option would be for someone else to switch the slides. since you > are familiar with your presentation, I'd either ask for a volunteer > via email today, or ask the professor if they have a suggestion. If > this is a class presentation, you want to make sure everyone is > benefiting from it. Once you have whoever is going to be switching, > you can tell them you give a short nod when you are ready for them to > change the slide. I find that nodding, or looking at the person is > less disrupting than saying something verbally. > Hope this helps. > Mary > > On 12/4/12, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> I do not need to be able to read what is on the slide because I have not >> cards for myself, but I will need to change the slides as I go. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lisa E Roszyk" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation >> >> >>> If you are using power poin.t from mi,rosoft Iknow mac computers respond >>> better at least in my experience with jaws laptop commands but Iuse dell >>> 99 >>> percent of thbe time with zoomtext and jaws combined so I'm not sure if >>> that helps >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 4, 2012, Cindy wrote: >>>> I assume that when you mean you have a PowerPoint presentation, you are >>> using the Microsoft product. From what I know, Microsoft for mac which I >>> am >>> assuming is the program that is on the computer you're presenting on, is >>> not accessible with voiceOver. If anyone else knows differently, I hope >>> they reply. But I don't know if you're going to be able to change the >>> slides on your own. Or at least, I'm not sure if you would get the >>> confirmation vocally if you change the slides on your own. >>>> >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:52 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I have never used a Mac computer before and have a few questions. I >>>>> have >>> to use a Mac for a powerpoint presenation tomorrow. I have the >>> presenation >>> saved to a thumb drive, so onfce the drive is iinserted and the >>> powerpoint >>> is pulled up, in order to flip through slides can I just press the space >>> bar as a short cut? Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rosz1878%40fredonia.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will > forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them > feel." > — > Maya Angelou > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From coasterfreak88 at me.com Tue Dec 4 23:29:55 2012 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:29:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> Message-ID: <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com> Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint files. From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 03:02:28 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:02:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] using a Mac for powerpoint presentation In-Reply-To: <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com> References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com> Message-ID: Good evening all, I have a quick Mac-Related question. First, has anyone used the newest firefox with WebVisum? Firefox appears to work, getting WV, to is another issue. When you click on download, then install, VO says: Firefox has new window. That is a mystery. No other window appears to open. On Sunday evening, I was able to run firefox with WV. I think, however, buy clearing my history, I did something that does not allow for it to work. What other capcha options are there, since Selona is no longer available? My main computer is a Mac. Thanks in advance. William Sent from my iPad On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:33 PM, "John Moore" wrote: > Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint files. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 03:13:14 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:13:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations In-Reply-To: References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria> <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com> <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria> <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com> Message-ID: <65FCA1B7-F45D-49BB-8D0D-D4733C32A9D5@gmail.com> dear william, I will explain to you in detail about the captcha service rumola below, please ride the entire message before executing any process to make sure things will work correctly for you. Firstly, you will need to visit http://skipinput.com there, you may install the rumola extension for safari, as well as sign up for the service. after the extension is installed, though, please visit the following guide, which contains not only the link for the extension (you may download it through this link or the previous one) but also a link to enable rumola voice alerts, which will announce to you when the capitcha is being or has been resolved, and so on: http://skipinput.com/bps/install.html once you have registered you will receive free credits, which allow you to test the service. when you enter a capitcha page, rumola will automatically solve the capitcha for you as soon as you start typing in the first field of the form which ends with the capitcha prompt. then, you will hit submit, and it will be done. once your free credits expire, you will need to pay for this service, however the fee is less than five dollars for about 100 capitcha solutions. please let me know if you have any questions, mauricio On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:02 PM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good evening all, > I have a quick Mac-Related question. > First, has anyone used the newest firefox with WebVisum? Firefox appears to work, getting WV, to is another issue. When you click on download, then install, VO says: > Firefox has new window. That is a mystery. No other window appears to open. > On Sunday evening, I was able to run firefox with WV. I think, however, buy clearing my history, I did something that does not allow for it to work. > What other capcha options are there, since Selona is no longer available? > My main computer is a Mac. > Thanks in advance. > William > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:33 PM, "John Moore" wrote: > >> Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint files. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From tim.johnson81 at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 11:33:39 2012 From: tim.johnson81 at gmail.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 06:33:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? In-Reply-To: References: <0D4C1D0F763541B68F0BC35806FF6EFE@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20121204044940.01cb5738@comcast.net> Message-ID: Arielle, Great points. I agree, if clicking was the norm, the white cane would attract more attention. We have a certain paradigm within our culture now which is more accepting of cane use rather than echolocation. Paradigms are something that can always be changed, but sometimes that takes a brave few to stand out from the crowd for a while during transition. You're right about Ben Underwood too, before his cancer returned and took his life he could ride a bike down the road by tracking his position off of cars parked on the side of the road. Cars have a very unique sound when using echolocation due to the fact that they are metal. He could play basketball by locating the flat backboard and aiming for it. He could navigate pathways by listening to the difference between the grass and pavement. He didn't use a cane, and when Daniel Kish worked with him he showed him some examples of how a cane can act to provide safety when echolocation fails. Echolocation is not very good at identifying large holes in the ground, for instance. Daniel Kish and everyone at World Access will encourage the combined use of a cane with echolocation. A cane is a sure-fire way to ensure safety, but echolocation offers enormous benefits to seeing beyond the tip of the cane. Buildings and trees in the distance, bushes, overhead objects, low hanging branches, people, cars and many other things can be seen with echolocation that might be missed with a cane, or a cane might incur damage to objects like cars or people's shins. Tim http://www.HumanEcholocation.com On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > It's true that we can get a lot of good echo information from our > canes. In fact, my understanding is that Dan Kish advocates using > echolocation in conjunction with a cane rather than instead of using a > cane. > To be fair, there are certain activities, such as bike riding or > skateboarding, where using a cane is not very helpful and there are > limits to how much information we can glean from our canes; i.e. the > cane can't tell us about overhanging objects. If echolocation would > allow us to perceive overhanging objects or to ride a bike safely, > detecting obstacles and keeping oneself oriented without a cane, then > I would be all for it. Ben Underwood, a blind teen who was featured > on several national TV shows talking about echolocation, claimed he > could ride a bike and maybe even skateboard using echolocation. > Unfortunately he did not use a cane in conjunction with echolocating > and I imagine there are some situations where the tactile feedback > from a cane would still be superior to what we would get by listening. > As for the social awkwardness of clicking one's tongue, I see your > point, but if you think about it, is tongue clicking any more or less > weird than swinging a big stick on the ground in front of you? > Obviously our canes call attention to us too, and we just have to put > up with that in order to have the safety and efficiency of travel that > a cane provides. In a different land where all blind people got > around by clicking their tongues, the odd one who used a cane instead > would be perceived as being strange etc. It's just something to think > about. Either way, whether we use a cane, guide dog, echolocation, > sighted guide or any combination of these, we will look a little > different. Ultimately the choice of technique should depend on how > well the technique ensures safe, independent and efficient travel in a > given situation. (I would still consider travel with a blind or > sighted guide to be "independent" if you control where you are going, > who you are going with, and are aware of what is around you). > Best, > Arielle > > On 12/4/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > Good morning, Joshua, > > > > Why must we frame that question in terms of which > > means of detection is "better?" In some cases the > > good ol' tongue cclick, is what doc ordered, > > while in others the metal tip works best for what > > you happen to be doing. At 04:25 AM 12/4/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>It does seem wierd and I agree with Darion that > >>we use it with our canes already. > >>That's one of the disadvantages of using a guide > >>dog, because you don't get that information. > >>I don't want to start an argument on which is > >>better, but this particular reason is another reason to stick with the > >> cane. > >>Blessings, Joshua > >>________________________________________ > >>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on > >>behalf of Darian Smith [dsmithnfb at gmail.com] > >>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:13 PM > >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >> > >>Hello List. Interesting topic indeed. It is My understanding that > >>the blind use Echo location already. > >> here's the thing, if you are using a cane, and doing so properly, > >>you are likely using echo location. > >> I know that some people like to make a clicking soung with their > >>tongue in order to achieve this, but I personally find it a bit > >>awkward to use in social situations (what you choose to use in the > >>comfort of your own dwelling is completely up to you). > >> I think you can use echo location with any type of cane, but I find > >>it better to use a cane that has a metel tip much like the long > >>white NFB canes or an Iowa cane. > >> The nice thing about using a cane is that you don't need to stop > >>mid-conversation to "click", rather you can "tap" > >> along and have a conversation with your professort, co-worker, or > >> parent. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Darian > >> > >> > >>On 12/3/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > >> > Yes, that's the best way to reach him, his email address is: > >> > Daniel.kish at worldaccessfortheblind.org > >> > > >> > He's a very busy many but he is always happy to hear from new people > >> > interested in echolocation. > >> > > >> > Tim > >> > http://www.HumanEcholocation.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> yes, just go to his website; its world access for the blind; his > email > >> >> should be there. > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina > >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 4:47 PM > >> >> > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >> >> > >> >> Hello Tim, > >> >> My name is Lily and I was wondering if there is anyway I could get in > >> >> touch with Mr. Kish via email or something? > >> >> Thank you > >> >> > >> >> On 11/26/12, Tim Johnson wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Maybe that was Daniel Kish? I've been working with him and some of > >> >>> his > >> >>> colleagues at World Access for the Blind on this book. He has done > a > >> >>> great > >> >>> deal to bring echolocation into the public eye and offers one-on-one > >> >>> training all over the world. > >> >>> > >> >>> Tim > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joshua Lester < > >> >>> > >> JLester8462 at pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com< > JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com>> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> I've heard of you, or someone at least advertising something like > >> >>> this > >> >>> in > >> >>>> an interview on a major news network. > >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >> >>>> ______________________________**__________ > >> >>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Johnson > [ > >> >>>> tim.johnson81 at gmail.com] > >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37 AM > >> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] What is echolocation? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Echolocation is the ability to “SEE” objects using sound instead of > >> >>>> sight. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Echolocation is a fundamentally simple skill that many blind people > >> >>>> use > >> >>>> daily to navigate and understand their environment. This skill is > >> >>>> sometimes > >> >>>> misunderstood, but it’s far more realistic and much easier than you > >> >>>> may > >> >>>> think. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> A new book, the first of its kind, has recently been published to > >> >>>> help > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> blind community become more familiar with this mode of perception > >> >>>> and > >> >>>> to > >> >>>> help people understand this very intriguing skill. There is often > a > >> >>>> lot > >> >>>> of > >> >>>> hesitation within the blind community to open up to attempting > >> >>>> echolocation, but the author demystifies the growing practice of > >> >>>> active > >> >>>> echolocation in a way that anyone can understand, and gives the > >> >>>> reader > >> >>>> simple exercises, examples, and lessons as a starting point for > >> >>>> launching > >> >>>> you into a successful practice of active echolocation. The > >> >>>> Beginner's > >> >>>> Guide to Echolocation for the Blind and Visually Impaired is now > >> >>>> available > >> >>>> in large print paperback, accessible ms word edition and audiobook. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Here's a little bit about how it works: > >> >>>> Sound waves ­ like ripples in a pond ­ reflect differently off of > >> >>>> all > >> >>>> objects and surfaces. This makes it possible for the trained ear to > >> >>>> distinguish shape, size, distance and material of our surroundings. > >> >>>> Musicians will tell you that “reverb” causes each room or surface > to > >> >>>> have > >> >>>> its own unique sound response. With sensitization and applied > >> >>>> practice > >> >>>> of > >> >>>> this skill, it’s possible for people with visual impairments all > >> >>>> over > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> world to become increasingly independent, supplementing their > >> >>>> existing > >> >>>> forms of orientation and mobility with the intrinsic awareness that > >> >>>> echolocation can provide. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Echolocation requires no special equipment nor any special talent. > >> >>>> The > >> >>>> human body and mind are truly marvels of nature that grant us with > >> >>>> capabilities you may never know you had. If you can hear, you can > >> >>>> echolocate. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Understanding the simplicity of this skill will allow you to shift > >> >>>> your > >> >>>> way > >> >>>> of thinking to accommodate an expanded awareness of your > >> >>>> environment. > >> >>>> With > >> >>>> this awareness comes independence, confidence, new possibilities > and > >> >>>> new > >> >>>> opportunities. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Read some reviews to hear what other blind people are saying about > >> >>>> this > >> >>>> new > >> >>>> book: > >> >>>> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/review-from-in-the-center-** > >> >>>> > >> of-the-roof/< > http://www.humanecholocation.com/review-from-in-the-center-of-the-roof/> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Paperback edition: > >> >>>> > >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1478371080/< > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1478371080/> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Accessible edition: > >> >>>> > >> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/echolocation-guide-msword-**format/< > http://www.humanecholocation.com/echolocation-guide-msword-format/> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Audiobook edition: > >> >>>> > >> http://www.humanecholocation.**com/audiobook/< > http://www.humanecholocation.com/audiobook/> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions about the book. I > >> >>>> would > >> >>>> be > >> >>>> happy to speak with any of you one-on-one about your hesitations > >> >>>> about > >> >>>> learning echolocation. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Thank you, > >> >>>> Tim Johnson > >> >>>> www.HumanEcholocation.com > >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >>>> for > >> >>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> >>>> > >> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >>>> for > >> >>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > >> >>>> > >> johnson81%40gmail.com< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.johnson81%40gmail.com > > > >> >>>> > >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> >>> > >> lily2011a%40gmail.com< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> >> > >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > >> >> > >> >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.** > >> >> > >> johnson81%40gmail.com< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.johnson81%40gmail.com > > > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Darian Smith > >> > >> > >>Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund > >>via your phone bill. > >> > >>The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with > Disabilities > >> > >>http://www.nfb.org/fairwages > >> > >> > >>“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is > >>made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes. > >>These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our > >>knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…” > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tim.johnson81%40gmail.com > From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 13:55:38 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 08:55:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations In-Reply-To: <65FCA1B7-F45D-49BB-8D0D-D4733C32A9D5@gmail.com> References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria>, <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com>, , <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria>, , , <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com>, , <65FCA1B7-F45D-49BB-8D0D-D4733C32A9D5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for this information. I will check it out later this evening, when I am home on my Mac. William O’Donnell, Independent Distributer, Organo Gold Enterprises INC. http://www.willsholistics.organogold.com > From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:13:14 -0500 > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations > > dear william, > > I will explain to you in detail about the captcha service rumola below, please ride the entire message before executing any process to make sure things will work correctly for you. > Firstly, you will need to visit > http://skipinput.com > there, you may install the rumola extension for safari, as well as sign up for the service. > after the extension is installed, though, please visit the following guide, which contains not only the link for the extension (you may download it through this link or the previous one) but also a link to enable rumola voice alerts, which will announce to you when the capitcha is being or has been resolved, and so on: > http://skipinput.com/bps/install.html > once you have registered you will receive free credits, which allow you to test the service. > when you enter a capitcha page, rumola will automatically solve the capitcha for you as soon as you start typing in the first field of the form which ends with the capitcha prompt. > then, you will hit submit, and it will be done. > once your free credits expire, you will need to pay for this service, however the fee is less than five dollars for about 100 capitcha solutions. > > please let me know if you have any questions, > > mauricio > On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:02 PM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > > Good evening all, > > I have a quick Mac-Related question. > > First, has anyone used the newest firefox with WebVisum? Firefox appears to work, getting WV, to is another issue. When you click on download, then install, VO says: > > Firefox has new window. That is a mystery. No other window appears to open. > > On Sunday evening, I was able to run firefox with WV. I think, however, buy clearing my history, I did something that does not allow for it to work. > > What other capcha options are there, since Selona is no longer available? > > My main computer is a Mac. > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:33 PM, "John Moore" wrote: > > > >> Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint files. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Dec 5 14:09:39 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 14:09:39 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations In-Reply-To: References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria>, <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com>, , <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria>, , , <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com>, , <65FCA1B7-F45D-49BB-8D0D-D4733C32A9D5@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Good grief! No captcha solution for those of us that use Internet Explorer? Oh well! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of wmodnl wmodnl [wmodnl at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:55 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations Thank you for this information. I will check it out later this evening, when I am home on my Mac. William O’Donnell, Independent Distributer, Organo Gold Enterprises INC. http://www.willsholistics.organogold.com > From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:13:14 -0500 > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations > > dear william, > > I will explain to you in detail about the captcha service rumola below, please ride the entire message before executing any process to make sure things will work correctly for you. > Firstly, you will need to visit > http://skipinput.com > there, you may install the rumola extension for safari, as well as sign up for the service. > after the extension is installed, though, please visit the following guide, which contains not only the link for the extension (you may download it through this link or the previous one) but also a link to enable rumola voice alerts, which will announce to you when the capitcha is being or has been resolved, and so on: > http://skipinput.com/bps/install.html > once you have registered you will receive free credits, which allow you to test the service. > when you enter a capitcha page, rumola will automatically solve the capitcha for you as soon as you start typing in the first field of the form which ends with the capitcha prompt. > then, you will hit submit, and it will be done. > once your free credits expire, you will need to pay for this service, however the fee is less than five dollars for about 100 capitcha solutions. > > please let me know if you have any questions, > > mauricio > On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:02 PM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > > Good evening all, > > I have a quick Mac-Related question. > > First, has anyone used the newest firefox with WebVisum? Firefox appears to work, getting WV, to is another issue. When you click on download, then install, VO says: > > Firefox has new window. That is a mystery. No other window appears to open. > > On Sunday evening, I was able to run firefox with WV. I think, however, buy clearing my history, I did something that does not allow for it to work. > > What other capcha options are there, since Selona is no longer available? > > My main computer is a Mac. > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:33 PM, "John Moore" wrote: > > > >> Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint files. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Wed Dec 5 15:18:06 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 09:18:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria>, <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com>, , <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria>, , , <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com>, , <65FCA1B7-F45D-49BB-8D0D-D4733C32A9D5@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <003201cdd2fb$bac3a2a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, Do they have a process for refunding people should a captcha solution fail? There are captcha solutions and there are scams. Perhaps our attorney's general and the Federal Trade Commission should have a look at this beast. Thank God there are folks like DQ Systems that highly discourage the use of captchas as a spam-checking mechanism plus good old education of companies and Web developers to the problems the use of these things cause the blind and others with particular disabilities. In recent months I've begun to notice that somewhat fewer captchas are being used. Several sites I visit regularly once used a captcha but have since removed them thanks to our efforts. Yay! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations Good grief! No captcha solution for those of us that use Internet Explorer? Oh well! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of wmodnl wmodnl [wmodnl at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:55 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations Thank you for this information. I will check it out later this evening, when I am home on my Mac. William O’Donnell, Independent Distributer, Organo Gold Enterprises INC. http://www.willsholistics.organogold.com > From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:13:14 -0500 > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for > powerpoint presentations > > dear william, > > I will explain to you in detail about the captcha service rumola below, > please ride the entire message before executing any process to make sure > things will work correctly for you. > Firstly, you will need to visit > http://skipinput.com > there, you may install the rumola extension for safari, as well as sign up > for the service. > after the extension is installed, though, please visit the following > guide, which contains not only the link for the extension (you may > download it through this link or the previous one) but also a link to > enable rumola voice alerts, which will announce to you when the capitcha > is being or has been resolved, and so on: > http://skipinput.com/bps/install.html > once you have registered you will receive free credits, which allow you to > test the service. > when you enter a capitcha page, rumola will automatically solve the > capitcha for you as soon as you start typing in the first field of the > form which ends with the capitcha prompt. > then, you will hit submit, and it will be done. > once your free credits expire, you will need to pay for this service, > however the fee is less than five dollars for about 100 capitcha > solutions. > > please let me know if you have any questions, > > mauricio > On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:02 PM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > > Good evening all, > > I have a quick Mac-Related question. > > First, has anyone used the newest firefox with WebVisum? Firefox appears > > to work, getting WV, to is another issue. When you click on download, > > then install, VO says: > > Firefox has new window. That is a mystery. No other window appears to > > open. > > On Sunday evening, I was able to run firefox with WV. I think, however, > > buy clearing my history, I did something that does not allow for it to > > work. > > What other capcha options are there, since Selona is no longer > > available? > > My main computer is a Mac. > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:33 PM, "John Moore" wrote: > > > >> Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had > >> to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint > >> files. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 15:37:13 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 10:37:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for powerpoint presentations In-Reply-To: <003201cdd2fb$bac3a2a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <739DF194F7534E0E8686595FC123FD63@Gloria>, <65CAB887-2492-4916-AFF2-F9A88A34C26E@gmail.com>, , <33F82754CBBF42D9BDFFCB76697F2021@Gloria>, , , <45970508-6BEB-473D-887C-1431EDDBB7B2@me.com>, , <65FCA1B7-F45D-49BB-8D0D-D4733C32A9D5@gmail.com>, <003201cdd2fb$bac3a2a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: they do not, however, when they fail you are not credited, which means it makes no difference. at least this was my experience. regards mauricio On Dec 5, 2012, at 10:18 AM, "Peter Donahue" wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > Do they have a process for refunding people should a captcha solution > fail? There are captcha solutions and there are scams. Perhaps our > attorney's general and the Federal Trade Commission should have a look at > this beast. > > Thank God there are folks like DQ Systems that highly discourage the use > of captchas as a spam-checking mechanism plus good old education of > companies and Web developers to the problems the use of these things cause > the blind and others with particular disabilities. In recent months I've > begun to notice that somewhat fewer captchas are being used. Several sites I > visit regularly once used a captcha but have since removed them thanks to > our efforts. Yay! > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for > powerpoint presentations > > > Good grief! > No captcha solution for those of us that use Internet Explorer? > Oh well! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of wmodnl wmodnl > [wmodnl at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:55 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for > powerpoint presentations > > Thank you for this information. I will check it out later this evening, > when I am home on my Mac. > > > > William O’Donnell, > Independent Distributer, > Organo Gold Enterprises INC. > http://www.willsholistics.organogold.com > > >> From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com >> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:13:14 -0500 >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] capitcha solutions for the blind was: using a mac for >> powerpoint presentations >> >> dear william, >> >> I will explain to you in detail about the captcha service rumola below, >> please ride the entire message before executing any process to make sure >> things will work correctly for you. >> Firstly, you will need to visit >> http://skipinput.com >> there, you may install the rumola extension for safari, as well as sign up >> for the service. >> after the extension is installed, though, please visit the following >> guide, which contains not only the link for the extension (you may >> download it through this link or the previous one) but also a link to >> enable rumola voice alerts, which will announce to you when the capitcha >> is being or has been resolved, and so on: >> http://skipinput.com/bps/install.html >> once you have registered you will receive free credits, which allow you to >> test the service. >> when you enter a capitcha page, rumola will automatically solve the >> capitcha for you as soon as you start typing in the first field of the >> form which ends with the capitcha prompt. >> then, you will hit submit, and it will be done. >> once your free credits expire, you will need to pay for this service, >> however the fee is less than five dollars for about 100 capitcha >> solutions. >> >> please let me know if you have any questions, >> >> mauricio >> On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:02 PM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >> >>> Good evening all, >>> I have a quick Mac-Related question. >>> First, has anyone used the newest firefox with WebVisum? Firefox appears >>> to work, getting WV, to is another issue. When you click on download, >>> then install, VO says: >>> Firefox has new window. That is a mystery. No other window appears to >>> open. >>> On Sunday evening, I was able to run firefox with WV. I think, however, >>> buy clearing my history, I did something that does not allow for it to >>> work. >>> What other capcha options are there, since Selona is no longer >>> available? >>> My main computer is a Mac. >>> Thanks in advance. >>> William >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:33 PM, "John Moore" wrote: >>> >>>> Apple's equivalent to PowerPoint, KeyNote, is useable. I have not had >>>> to do presentations with it, but I do know that it accepts PowerPoint >>>> files. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 21:46:23 2012 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad Message-ID: HI All, I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I’m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. From hope.paulos at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 21:48:26 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:48:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A222056-BB8B-41CA-875E-3F74CFB174CA@gmail.com> Hi there. I do not have an iPad, I also have an iPhone. I have seen one though. There is no tactile keyboard, unless you get one of those speed.screen protectors. The iPad can hook up to a Brill display. It can also hook up to a Bluetooth keyboard. With the accessibility of pages, it is possible to write and edit documents and then export them to drop box. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2012, at 4:46 PM, "Ian Perrault" wrote: > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I’m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 22:13:45 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:13:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad Message-ID: <50bfc731.e64dec0a.5750.ffff8530@mx.google.com> Hi=20Ian, If=20you=20already=20have=20an=20iPhone,=20I=20see=20no=20reason=20why=20yo= u=20need=20to=20 spend=20additional=20money=20on=20an=20iPad.=20An=20iPad=20performs=20essen= tially=20 the=20same=20functions=20as=20an=20iPhone,=20except=20unlike=20the=20phone,= =20it=20 doesn't=20have=20a=20built-in=20app=20for=20calls.=20As=20far=20as=20I=20kn= ow,=20the=20only=20 benefit=20of=20an=20iPad=20is=20that=20it=20has=20a=20bigger=20screen,=20wh= ich=20would=20 not=20be=20very=20useful=20to=20us. Best=20wishes, Sophie =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Ian=20Perrault"=20 References: <50bfc731.e64dec0a.5750.ffff8530@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, but just putting it out there. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I’m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 23:05:23 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:05:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad Message-ID: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> Josh,=20I=20use=20iBooks=20on=20my=20phone.=20I=20read=20many=20books=20tha= t=20way,=20and=20 it=20works=20perfectly. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Josh=20Gregory=20=20wrote: =20Hi=20Ian, =20If=20you=20already=20have=20an=20iPhone,=20I=20see=20no=20reason=20why=20= you=20need=20to=20 spend=20additional=20money=20on=20an=20iPad.=20An=20iPad=20performs=20essen= tially=20 the=20same=20functions=20as=20an=20iPhone,=20except=20unlike=20the=20phone,= =20it=20 doesn't=20have=20a=20built-in=20app=20for=20calls.=20As=20far=20as=20I=20kn= ow,=20the=20only=20 benefit=20of=20an=20iPad=20is=20that=20it=20has=20a=20bigger=20screen,=20wh= ich=20would=20 not=20be=20very=20useful=20to=20us. =20Best=20wishes, =20Sophie =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- =20From:=20"Ian=20Perrault"=20 References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2CB459A0-1410-46C0-A5BD-420EE2345CAD@gmail.com> I agree. Now as it could just read textbooks, should be no need for an iPad. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, but just putting it out there. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I’m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 23:19:47 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 15:19:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote Message-ID: <50bfd6b0.08ef440a.7689.3943@mx.google.com> Hello, does anyone know of any good websites that are accessible on the BrailleNote to create email addresses? I need to join the zone and can't use the address I have now and I need to find a way to create an email without a captcha. Thanks. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist References: <50bfd6b0.08ef440a.7689.3943@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey, what about Gmail? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sarah wrote: > Hello, does anyone know of any good websites that are accessible on the BrailleNote to create email addresses? I need to join the zone and can't use the address I have now and I need to find a way to create an email without a captcha. > > Thanks. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:13:45 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to > spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially > the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it > doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only > benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would > not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad.. Is that > as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get > a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy > to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? > I? trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my > laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 23:34:25 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:34:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <260B536FD36241F3AC55CAED8053EEA0@acerd37f251f21> Hi, Which is the best one for notetaking in a college setting, the IPhone or IPad. I would like to get one of these devices, but I am still debating on whether to get an IPad or IPhone. I like the fact that the IPhone uses the cell phone signal for GPS, but I don't know if the IPad is more functional for a student wanting to use it in school and for assignments, etc. I have a laptop, but I would like something more compact to work on homework while out or on the bus, because I have a long ride to the college each day, and my laptop is quite bulky, especially when the bus is full to capacity. Thanks, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Hi Ian, If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. Best wishes, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Perrault" How do I access the text? My phone can't access texts like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Hello, does anyone know of any good websites that are accessible on the BrailleNote to create email addresses? I need to join the zone and can't use the address I have now and I need to find a way to create an email without a captcha. Thanks. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist References: <50bfda0c.47ec440a.12b9.2f65@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <79D59B7F-69FC-46A5-A95F-A02F6E6C6729@gmail.com> Don't you get them when they come in? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:34 PM, Sarah wrote: > How do I access the text? My phone can't access texts like that. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:24:16 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote > > Hey, what about Gmail? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, does anyone know of any good websites that are accessible on the BrailleNote to create email addresses? I need to join the zone and can't use the address I have now and I need to find a way to create an email without a captcha. > > Thanks. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:13:45 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to > spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially > the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it > doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only > benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would > not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad.. Is that > as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get > a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy > to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? > I? trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my > laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From pgradioman at hotmail.com Thu Dec 6 00:46:17 2012 From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:46:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote In-Reply-To: <79D59B7F-69FC-46A5-A95F-A02F6E6C6729@gmail.com> References: <50bfda0c.47ec440a.12b9.2f65@mx.google.com>, <79D59B7F-69FC-46A5-A95F-A02F6E6C6729@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, While we are on the subject of creating e-mail accounts with the braillenote, is there anyway that I can setup my hotmail account in Keymail. I know GMail works with it. Thanks, Preston > From: joshkart12 at gmail.com > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:38:47 -0500 > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote > > Don't you get them when they come in? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:34 PM, Sarah wrote: > > > How do I access the text? My phone can't access texts like that. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:24:16 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote > > > > Hey, what about Gmail? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sarah wrote: > > > > Hello, does anyone know of any good websites that are accessible on the BrailleNote to create email addresses? I need to join the zone and can't use the address I have now and I need to find a way to create an email without a captcha. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Sarah and Wizard > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sophie Trist > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:13:45 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to > > spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially > > the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it > > doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only > > benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would > > not be very useful to us. > > > > Best wishes, > > Sophie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Perrault" > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > > > HI All, > > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad.. Is that > > as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get > > a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy > > to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? > > I? trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my > > laptop and IPhone. > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > > r%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > > gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com From dwebster125 at verizon.net Thu Dec 6 00:55:36 2012 From: dwebster125 at verizon.net (David Webster) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:55:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <260B536FD36241F3AC55CAED8053EEA0@acerd37f251f21> References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> <260B536FD36241F3AC55CAED8053EEA0@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <000001cdd34c$68081db0$38185910$@net> Hi. I have an I pad which I've had for about 2 years now. I currently = am not in school but I think the I pad would be kind of hard to take notes with just because with the touch screen keyboard you can't write really fast. You could get an external blue tooth keyboard for it but why do = that when you could have a laptop that has a keyboard already. Most laptops = now adays aren't all that bulky. So. Just my thoughts.-Original = Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 3:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad Hi, Which is the best one for notetaking in a college setting, the IPhone or IPad. I would like to get one of these devices, but I am still debating = on whether to get an IPad or IPhone. I like the fact that the IPhone uses = the cell phone signal for GPS, but I don't know if the IPad is more = functional for a student wanting to use it in school and for assignments, etc. I = have a laptop, but I would like something more compact to work on homework = while out or on the bus, because I have a long ride to the college each day, = and my laptop is quite bulky, especially when the bus is full to capacity. Thanks, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Hi Ian, If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. Best wishes, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Perrault" References: <50bfda0c.47ec440a.12b9.2f65@mx.google.com> <79D59B7F-69FC-46A5-A95F-A02F6E6C6729@gmail.com> Message-ID: Possibility, but I don't think so, since I don't think it supports the email protocol that the notetaker requires. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Preston Gaylor wrote: > > Hi all, > While we are on the subject of creating e-mail accounts with the braillenote, is there anyway that I can setup my hotmail account in Keymail. I know GMail works with it. > Thanks, Preston > > >> From: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:38:47 -0500 >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote >> >> Don't you get them when they come in? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:34 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >>> How do I access the text? My phone can't access texts like that. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Josh Gregory >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:24:16 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating Email Accounts On The BrailleNote >>> >>> Hey, what about Gmail? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>> Hello, does anyone know of any good websites that are accessible on the BrailleNote to create email addresses? I need to join the zone and can't use the address I have now and I need to find a way to create an email without a captcha. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sophie Trist >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list>> Date sent: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:13:45 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to >>> spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially >>> the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it >>> doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only >>> benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would >>> not be very useful to us. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ian Perrault" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] IPad >>> >>> HI All, >>> I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad.. Is that >>> as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get >>> a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy >>> to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? >>> I? trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my >>> laptop and IPhone. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 01:28:19 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:28:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7EB5B7DF-BD46-4360-88DD-81935D03E12B@gmail.com> i use ibooks on my ipad, and that works really well. in fact, i do most of my work on my ipad. the only thing that i do not do is, writting my books. that is just because i don't know if there is a word like app for the ipad, ipod, and or iphone. or i would do that too. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, but just putting it out there. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I€™m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 01:30:04 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:30:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <000001cdd34c$68081db0$38185910$@net> References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> <260B536FD36241F3AC55CAED8053EEA0@acerd37f251f21> <000001cdd34c$68081db0$38185910$@net> Message-ID: u can take notes on an ipad. i do it all the time. i got a blue tooth keyboard, and i do use the on screen keyboard with voice over. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2012, at 7:55 PM, "David Webster" wrote: > Hi. I have an I pad which I've had for about 2 years now. I currently am > not in school but I think the I pad would be kind of hard to take notes > with just because with the touch screen keyboard you can't write really > fast. You could get an external blue tooth keyboard for it but why do that > when you could have a laptop that has a keyboard already. Most laptops now > adays aren't all that bulky. So. Just my thoughts.-Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn > Bradley > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 3:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > Hi, > Which is the best one for notetaking in a college setting, the IPhone or > IPad. I would like to get one of these devices, but I am still debating on > whether to get an IPad or IPhone. I like the fact that the IPhone uses the > cell phone signal for GPS, but I don't know if the IPad is more functional > for a student wanting to use it in school and for assignments, etc. I have > a laptop, but I would like something more compact to work on homework while > out or on the bus, because I have a long ride to the college each day, and > my laptop is quite bulky, especially when the bus is full to capacity. > Thanks, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sophie Trist" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > > Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and > it works perfectly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, > which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, > but just putting it out there. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to > spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially > the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it > doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only > benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would > not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that > as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get > a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy > to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? > I?셫 trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my > laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Thu Dec 6 02:33:26 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:33:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> <260B536FD36241F3AC55CAED8053EEA0@acerd37f251f21> <000001cdd34c$68081db0$38185910$@net> Message-ID: Yep, I second that! It makes a great one at that. Can go for a while on a full Battary. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2012, at 8:21 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > u can take notes on an ipad. i do it all the time. i got a blue tooth keyboard, and i do use the on screen keyboard with voice over. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 7:55 PM, "David Webster" wrote: > >> Hi. I have an I pad which I've had for about 2 years now. I currently am >> not in school but I think the I pad would be kind of hard to take notes >> with just because with the touch screen keyboard you can't write really >> fast. You could get an external blue tooth keyboard for it but why do that >> when you could have a laptop that has a keyboard already. Most laptops now >> adays aren't all that bulky. So. Just my thoughts.-Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn >> Bradley >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 3:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >> >> Hi, >> Which is the best one for notetaking in a college setting, the IPhone or >> IPad. I would like to get one of these devices, but I am still debating on >> whether to get an IPad or IPhone. I like the fact that the IPhone uses the >> cell phone signal for GPS, but I don't know if the IPad is more functional >> for a student wanting to use it in school and for assignments, etc. I have >> a laptop, but I would like something more compact to work on homework while >> out or on the bus, because I have a long ride to the college each day, and >> my laptop is quite bulky, especially when the bus is full to capacity. >> Thanks, >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >> >> >> Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and >> it works perfectly. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >> >> On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, >> which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, >> but just putting it out there. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist >> wrote: >> >> Hi Ian, >> >> If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to >> spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially >> the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it >> doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only >> benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would >> not be very useful to us. >> >> Best wishes, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ian Perrault" > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] IPad >> >> HI All, >> I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that >> as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get >> a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy >> to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? >> I?셫 trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my >> laptop and IPhone. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 02:36:27 2012 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:36:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS with MATLAB Message-ID: <034f01cdd35a$7eb9de00$7c2d9a00$@gmail.com> Good evening, I am wondering if anybody has experience using JAWS with MATLAB. I am trying to assist a student who is struggling with access to the program, and, therefore, the curriculum for an aeronautics major. Please write to me off list at nabs.president at gmail.com if you have any experience or information that might be beneficial. Thanks! Sean Sean Whalen President, National Association of Blind Students (608) 332-4147 Nabs.president at gmail.com www.nabslink.org From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 02:52:22 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:52:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: References: <50bfd34a.0229650a.2d05.ffff85af@mx.google.com> <260B536FD36241F3AC55CAED8053EEA0@acerd37f251f21> <000001cdd34c$68081db0$38185910$@net> Message-ID: I use my ipad to do blogs on both gogle blogs, and word press. They r both APPS on the ipad, ipod, and iphone. I take notes in the note APP. I do all of my emails, facebook, voxer, facebook chatt, or messanger, gogle plus, and anything else. My ipad, also has blind friend communication Apps. verbaly, and speak it, both work with Voice over. Lavonnya Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2012, at 9:33 PM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Yep, I second that! It makes a great one at that. Can go for a while on a full Battary. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 8:21 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > >> u can take notes on an ipad. i do it all the time. i got a blue tooth keyboard, and i do use the on screen keyboard with voice over. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 5, 2012, at 7:55 PM, "David Webster" wrote: >> >>> Hi. I have an I pad which I've had for about 2 years now. I currently am >>> not in school but I think the I pad would be kind of hard to take notes >>> with just because with the touch screen keyboard you can't write really >>> fast. You could get an external blue tooth keyboard for it but why do that >>> when you could have a laptop that has a keyboard already. Most laptops now >>> adays aren't all that bulky. So. Just my thoughts.-Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn >>> Bradley >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 3:34 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >>> >>> Hi, >>> Which is the best one for notetaking in a college setting, the IPhone or >>> IPad. I would like to get one of these devices, but I am still debating on >>> whether to get an IPad or IPhone. I like the fact that the IPhone uses the >>> cell phone signal for GPS, but I don't know if the IPad is more functional >>> for a student wanting to use it in school and for assignments, etc. I have >>> a laptop, but I would like something more compact to work on homework while >>> out or on the bus, because I have a long ride to the college each day, and >>> my laptop is quite bulky, especially when the bus is full to capacity. >>> Thanks, >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:05 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >>> >>> >>> Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and >>> it works perfectly. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Josh Gregory >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >>> >>> On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, >>> which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, >>> but just putting it out there. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to >>> spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially >>> the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it >>> doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only >>> benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would >>> not be very useful to us. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ian Perrault" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] IPad >>> >>> HI All, >>> I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that >>> as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get >>> a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy >>> to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? >>> I?셫 trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my >>> laptop and IPhone. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Thu Dec 6 10:09:59 2012 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:09:59 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad Message-ID: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> BS"D Missty, I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. Lavonya, Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 12:38:49 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 06:38:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad Message-ID: <50c091f1.a5b4ec0a.04c7.3769@mx.google.com> What's=20the=20difference=20between=20textbooks=20and=20regular=20books? =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Josh=20Gregory=20=20wrote: =20Josh,=20I=20use=20iBooks=20on=20my=20phone.=20I=20read=20many=20books=20= that=20way,=20and=20 it=20works=20perfectly. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- =20From:=20Josh=20Gregory=20=20wrote: =20Hi=20Ian, =20If=20you=20already=20have=20an=20iPhone,=20I=20see=20no=20reason=20why=20= you=20need=20to=20 spend=20additional=20money=20on=20an=20iPad.=20An=20iPad=20performs=20essen= tially=20 the=20same=20functions=20as=20an=20iPhone,=20except=20unlike=20the=20phone,= =20it=20 doesn't=20have=20a=20built-in=20app=20for=20calls.=20As=20far=20as=20I=20kn= ow,=20the=20only=20 benefit=20of=20an=20iPad=20is=20that=20it=20has=20a=20bigger=20screen,=20wh= ich=20would=20 not=20be=20very=20useful=20to=20us. =20Best=20wishes, =20Sophie =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- =20From:=20"Ian=20Perrault"=20 References: <50c091f1.a5b4ec0a.04c7.3769@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you mean in iBooks, they are more interactive than regular print books. And they have interactive diagrams and stuff. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:38 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > What's the difference between textbooks and regular books? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:13:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > I agree. Now as it could just read textbooks, should be no need for an iPad. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, but just putting it out there. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I’m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 13:49:54 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 08:49:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> References: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> Message-ID: <7534FD90-28C9-42DF-B944-1915B0067580@gmail.com> Hi Leye This is LaVonnya. I will check it out. That sounds like the microsoft i have on my laptop. I agree. I have my ipad, and my laptop, to make things easier. I hate to keep still. I move constanley. I have autism and ADHD, so it is not possable for me to sit in 1 spot for more than a few seconds. I am thinking of getting an iphone, and and ipod. Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 5:09 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > > BS"D > > Missty, > > I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. > > Lavonya, > > Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ > > Kind regards, > Leye-Shprintse > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 13:52:41 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 08:52:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> References: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> Message-ID: <0DF68116-2521-44B1-88B8-B7A08DA3C4F3@gmail.com> Ok. I found it. Thanks. This is Lavonnya. Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 5:09 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > > BS"D > > Missty, > > I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. > > Lavonya, > > Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ > > Kind regards, > Leye-Shprintse > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Thu Dec 6 16:44:59 2012 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 17:44:59 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <0DF68116-2521-44B1-88B8-B7A08DA3C4F3@gmail.com> References: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> <0DF68116-2521-44B1-88B8-B7A08DA3C4F3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D44A2E3-7729-4067-9A22-93E79730A6C9@ymail.com> BS"D Lavonnya, I hope that it'll work for you, I haven't tested them out yet but I'll. Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse Envoyé de mon iPhone 6 dec 2012 kl. 14:52 skrev Lavonya Gardner : Ok. I found it. Thanks. This is Lavonnya. Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 5:09 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > > BS"D > > Missty, > > I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. > > Lavonya, > > Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ > > Kind regards, > Leye-Shprintse > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 16:59:06 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <0D44A2E3-7729-4067-9A22-93E79730A6C9@ymail.com> References: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> <0DF68116-2521-44B1-88B8-B7A08DA3C4F3@gmail.com> <0D44A2E3-7729-4067-9A22-93E79730A6C9@ymail.com> Message-ID: so, do u no if there is an APP that will have all of them in 1 place. Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > BS"D > > Lavonnya, > > I hope that it'll work for you, I haven't tested them out yet but I'll. > > Kind regards, > > Leye-Shprintse > > Envoyé de mon iPhone > > 6 dec 2012 kl. 14:52 skrev Lavonya Gardner : > > Ok. I found it. Thanks. This is Lavonnya. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 5:09 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > >> >> BS"D >> >> Missty, >> >> I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. >> >> Lavonya, >> >> Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ >> >> Kind regards, >> Leye-Shprintse >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Thu Dec 6 17:02:40 2012 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 18:02:40 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: References: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> <0DF68116-2521-44B1-88B8-B7A08DA3C4F3@gmail.com> <0D44A2E3-7729-4067-9A22-93E79730A6C9@ymail.com> Message-ID: <866A7946-AFB7-4C67-A7D9-5A17855723E6@ymail.com> BS"D Lavonnya, No, the apps are separate ones. The good thing with them is that you can synchronise the apps on all your Apple products, MacBook, iPhone and iPad with more. Kind regards, Leye-Shprintse Envoyé de mon iPhone 6 dec 2012 kl. 17:59 skrev Lavonya Gardner : so, do u no if there is an APP that will have all of them in 1 place. Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > BS"D > > Lavonnya, > > I hope that it'll work for you, I haven't tested them out yet but I'll. > > Kind regards, > > Leye-Shprintse > > Envoyé de mon iPhone > > 6 dec 2012 kl. 14:52 skrev Lavonya Gardner : > > Ok. I found it. Thanks. This is Lavonnya. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 5:09 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > >> >> BS"D >> >> Missty, >> >> I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. >> >> Lavonya, >> >> Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ >> >> Kind regards, >> Leye-Shprintse >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 17:21:01 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:21:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <866A7946-AFB7-4C67-A7D9-5A17855723E6@ymail.com> References: <8015F232-8631-4470-B384-24D078C3A901@ymail.com> <0DF68116-2521-44B1-88B8-B7A08DA3C4F3@gmail.com> <0D44A2E3-7729-4067-9A22-93E79730A6C9@ymail.com> <866A7946-AFB7-4C67-A7D9-5A17855723E6@ymail.com> Message-ID: thanks. that works. i will play with it. Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 12:02 PM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > BS"D > > Lavonnya, > > No, the apps are separate ones. The good thing with them is that you can synchronise the apps on all your Apple products, MacBook, iPhone and iPad with more. > > Kind regards, > > Leye-Shprintse > > Envoyé de mon iPhone > > 6 dec 2012 kl. 17:59 skrev Lavonya Gardner : > > so, do u no if there is an APP that will have all of them in 1 place. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: > >> BS"D >> >> Lavonnya, >> >> I hope that it'll work for you, I haven't tested them out yet but I'll. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Leye-Shprintse >> >> Envoyé de mon iPhone >> >> 6 dec 2012 kl. 14:52 skrev Lavonya Gardner : >> >> Ok. I found it. Thanks. This is Lavonnya. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 6, 2012, at 5:09 AM, Leye-Shprintse wrote: >> >>> >>> BS"D >>> >>> Missty, >>> >>> I use an iPhone together with a BraillePen12. It works for me, I have a MacBook and a laptop PC too but sometimes it is really nice to be able to study on the go or in the sofa. >>> >>> Lavonya, >>> >>> Apple has their own apps called Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are like Microsoft's programmes Word, PowerPoint and Excel. You can read more about them here: http://www.apple.com/iwork/ >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Leye-Shprintse >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leyeshprintse%40ymail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 20:19:59 2012 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 13:19:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> Message-ID: I use blackboard a lot. Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to be perfect. If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as blackboard. Many blessings, melissa and Pj At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everett Gavel" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hello Again, All, Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national NFB convention had a presentation on the accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less accessible, and that even that supposedly accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or articles explaining such details, please? I'm thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. Thanks for any help with this. Strive On! Everett everett at everettgavel.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Dec 6 21:12:56 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 16:12:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: <50c091f1.a5b4ec0a.04c7.3769@mx.google.com> References: <50c091f1.a5b4ec0a.04c7.3769@mx.google.com> Message-ID: sophie, textbooks are our academic books; they can be produced in alternative formats. On the other hand, regular books are copyrighted and have to get permission to reproduce them in an accessible format. This is only for specialized formats like daisy books or scanned books. It does not apply to regular e-books sold online. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:38 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad What's the difference between textbooks and regular books? ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Hi Ian, If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. Best wishes, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Perrault" QXNobGV5LCBubyBvZmZlbnNlLCBidXQgSSdtIG5vdCBzdHVwaWQuIEkgd2FzIHdvbmRlcmluZyBh Ym91dCB0aGUgCmRpZmZlcmVuY2UgYmV0d2VlbiB1c2luZyBpQm9va3MgdG8gcmVhZCB0ZXh0Ym9v a3Mgb24gdGhlIGlQaG9uZSAKKHdoaWNoIEkgaGF2ZSkgdnMuIHRoZSBpUGFkICh3aGljaCBJIGRv bid0LikKCiAtLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tCkZyb206ICJBc2hsZXkgQnJhbWxl dHQiIDxib29rd29ybWFoYkBlYXJ0aGxpbmsubmV0ClRvOiAiTmF0aW9uYWwgQXNzb2NpYXRpb24g b2YgQmxpbmQgU3R1ZGVudHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IiAKPG5hYnMtbEBuZmJuZXQub3JnCkRhdGUg c2VudDogVGh1LCA2IERlYyAyMDEyIDE2OjEyOjU2IC0wNTAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbbmFicy1s XSBJUGFkCgpzb3BoaWUsCnRleHRib29rcyBhcmUgb3VyIGFjYWRlbWljIGJvb2tzOyB0aGV5IGNh biBiZSBwcm9kdWNlZCBpbiAKYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUKZm9ybWF0cy4gT24gdGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbmQs IHJlZ3VsYXIgYm9va3MgYXJlIGNvcHlyaWdodGVkIGFuZCAKaGF2ZSB0byBnZXQKcGVybWlzc2lv biB0byByZXByb2R1Y2UgdGhlbSBpbiBhbiBhY2Nlc3NpYmxlIGZvcm1hdC4gVGhpcyBpcyAKb25s eSBmb3IKc3BlY2lhbGl6ZWQgZm9ybWF0cyBsaWtlIGRhaXN5IGJvb2tzIG9yCnNjYW5uZWQgYm9v a3MuICBJdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBhcHBseSB0byByZWd1bGFyIGUtYm9va3Mgc29sZCBvbmxpbmUuCgpB c2hsZXkKCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tCkZyb206IFNvcGhpZSBUcmlzdApTZW50 OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMDYsIDIwMTIgNzozOCBBTQpUbzogTmF0aW9uYWwgQXNzb2Np YXRpb24gb2YgQmxpbmQgU3R1ZGVudHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0ClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbbmFicy1s XSBJUGFkCgpXaGF0J3MgdGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgYmV0d2VlbiB0ZXh0Ym9va3MgYW5kIHJlZ3Vs YXIgYm9va3M/CgotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tCkZyb206IEpvc2ggR3JlZ29y eSA8am9zaGthcnQxMkBnbWFpbC5jb20KVG86IE5hdGlvbmFsIEFzc29jaWF0aW9uIG9mIEJsaW5k IFN0dWRlbnRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo8bmFicy1sQG5mYm5ldC5vcmcKRGF0ZSBzZW50OiBXZWQs IDUgRGVjIDIwMTIgMTg6MTM6NTUgLTA1MDAKU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtuYWJzLWxdIElQYWQKCkkg YWdyZWUuIE5vdyBhcyBpdCBjb3VsZCBqdXN0IHJlYWQgdGV4dGJvb2tzLCBzaG91bGQgYmUgbm8g bmVlZApmb3IgYW4gaVBhZC4KClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGhvbmUKCk9uIERlYyA1LCAyMDEyLCBh dCA2OjA1IFBNLCBTb3BoaWUgVHJpc3QKPHN3ZWV0cGVhcmVhZGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6 CgpKb3NoLCBJIHVzZSBpQm9va3Mgb24gbXkgcGhvbmUuIEkgcmVhZCBtYW55IGJvb2tzIHRoYXQg d2F5LCBhbmQKaXQgd29ya3MgcGVyZmVjdGx5LgoKLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0t LQpGcm9tOiBKb3NoIEdyZWdvcnkgPGpvc2hrYXJ0MTJAZ21haWwuY29tClRvOiBOYXRpb25hbCBB c3NvY2lhdGlvbiBvZiBCbGluZCBTdHVkZW50cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPG5hYnMtbEBuZmJuZXQu b3JnCkRhdGUgc2VudDogV2VkLCA1IERlYyAyMDEyIDE3OjI2OjE0IC0wNTAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBbbmFicy1sXSBJUGFkCgpPbiB0aGUgY29udHJhcnksIGl0IGNhbiBkbyB0aGluZ3MgbGlrZSBy ZWFkIHRleHQgYm9va3MgaW4KaUJvb2tzLCB3aGljaCB0aGUgaVBob25lIGNhbm5vdCBkby4gSSBk b24ndCBrbm93IGlmIHRoYXQgd291bGQKaGVscCB5b3UsIGJ1dCBqdXN0IHB1dHRpbmcgaXQgb3V0 IHRoZXJlLgoKU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IGlQaG9uZQoKT24gRGVjIDUsIDIwMTIsIGF0IDU6MTMgUE0s IFNvcGhpZSBUcmlzdAo8c3dlZXRwZWFyZWFkZXJAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKCkhpIElhbiwK CklmIHlvdSBhbHJlYWR5IGhhdmUgYW4gaVBob25lLCBJIHNlZSBubyByZWFzb24gd2h5IHlvdSBu ZWVkIHRvCnNwZW5kIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgbW9uZXkgb24gYW4gaVBhZC4gQW4gaVBhZCBwZXJmb3Jt cyBlc3NlbnRpYWxseQp0aGUgc2FtZSBmdW5jdGlvbnMgYXMgYW4gaVBob25lLCBleGNlcHQgdW5s aWtlIHRoZSBwaG9uZSwgaXQKZG9lc24ndCBoYXZlIGEgYnVpbHQtaW4gYXBwIGZvciBjYWxscy4g QXMgZmFyIGFzIEkga25vdywgdGhlIG9ubHkKYmVuZWZpdCBvZiBhbiBpUGFkIGlzIHRoYXQgaXQg aGFzIGEgYmlnZ2VyIHNjcmVlbiwgd2hpY2ggd291bGQKbm90IGJlIHZlcnkgdXNlZnVsIHRvIHVz LgoKQmVzdCB3aXNoZXMsClNvcGhpZQoKLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQpGcm9t OiAiSWFuIFBlcnJhdWx0IiA8aXBlcnJhdWx0QGhvdG1haWwuY29tClRvOiAiTmF0aW9uYWwgQXNz b2NpYXRpb24gb2YgQmxpbmQgU3R1ZGVudHMiIDxuYWJzLWxAbmZibmV0Lm9yZwpEYXRlIHNlbnQ6 IFdlZCwgNSBEZWMgMjAxMiAxNjo0NjoyMyAtMDUwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBbbmFicy1sXSBJUGFkCgpI SSBBbGwsCkkgaGF2ZSBhbiBJUGhvbmUsIGFuZCBhbSB0aGlua2luZyBhYm91dCBnZXR0aW5nIGFu IElQYWQuIElzIHRoYXQKYXMgYWNjZXNzaWJsZT8gSXMgdGhlcmUgYSB0YWN0aWxlIGtleWJvYXJk PyBJcyB0aGVyZSBhIHdheSB0byBnZXQKYSBicmFpbGxlIGRpc3BsYXk/IFdoYXQgaGF2ZSB5b3Ug dGhvdWdodCBvZiB0aGUgSVBhZD8gSXMgaXQgZWFzeQp0byB1c2UgYW5kIGRvZXMgaXQgZmVlbCBs aWtlIHRoZSBtb2Rlcm4gdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBhIG5vdGUtdGFrZXI/Ckk/mW0gdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGZp Z3VyZSBvdXQgd2hldGhlciB0byBnZXQgb25lIGluIGFkZGl0aW9uIHRvIG15CmxhcHRvcCBhbmQg SVBob25lLgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpu YWJzLWwgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5hYnMtbEBuZmJuZXQub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9uZmJuZXQub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmFicy1sX25mYm5ldC5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIGNoYW5nZSB5 b3VyIGxpc3Qgb3B0aW9ucyBvciBnZXQgeW91ciBhY2NvdW50CmluZm8gZm9yIG5hYnMtbDoKCmh0 dHA6Ly9uZmJuZXQub3JnL21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9uYWJzLWxfbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9zd2VldHBl YXJlYWRlCnIlNDBnbWFpbC5jb20KCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXwpuYWJzLWwgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5hYnMtbEBuZmJuZXQub3JnCmh0dHA6 Ly9uZmJuZXQub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmFicy1sX25mYm5ldC5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJz Y3JpYmUsIGNoYW5nZSB5b3VyIGxpc3Qgb3B0aW9ucyBvciBnZXQgeW91ciBhY2NvdW50CmluZm8g Zm9yIG5hYnMtbDoKCmh0dHA6Ly9uZmJuZXQub3JnL21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9uYWJzLWxfbmZi bmV0Lm9yZy9qb3Noa2FydDEyJTQwCmdtYWlsLmNvbQoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmFicy1sIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuYWJzLWxAbmZibmV0 Lm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25hYnMtbF9uZmJuZXQub3Jn ClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlLCBjaGFuZ2UgeW91ciBsaXN0IG9wdGlvbnMgb3IgZ2V0IHlvdXIgYWNj b3VudAppbmZvIGZvciBuYWJzLWw6CgpodHRwOi8vbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMv bmFicy1sX25mYm5ldC5vcmcvc3dlZXRwZWFyZWFkZQpyJTQwZ21haWwuY29tCgoKX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmFicy1sIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dApuYWJzLWxAbmZibmV0Lm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25h YnMtbF9uZmJuZXQub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlLCBjaGFuZ2UgeW91ciBsaXN0IG9wdGlvbnMg b3IgZ2V0IHlvdXIgYWNjb3VudAppbmZvIGZvciBuYWJzLWw6CgpodHRwOi8vbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvbmFicy1sX25mYm5ldC5vcmcvam9zaGthcnQxMiU0MApnbWFpbC5jb20K Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5hYnMtbCBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmFicy1sQG5mYm5ldC5vcmcKaHR0cDovL25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9uYWJzLWxfbmZibmV0Lm9yZwpUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSwgY2hhbmdlIHlvdXIgbGlz dCBvcHRpb25zIG9yIGdldCB5b3VyIGFjY291bnQgaW5mbwpmb3IgbmFicy1sOgpodHRwOi8vbmZi bmV0Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvbmFicy1sX25mYm5ldC5vcmcvc3dlZXRwZWFyZWFkZQpy JTQwZ21haWwuY29tCgoKCgoKCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18KbmFicy1sIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuYWJzLWxAbmZibmV0Lm9yZwpodHRwOi8v bmZibmV0Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25hYnMtbF9uZmJuZXQub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2Ny aWJlLCBjaGFuZ2UgeW91ciBsaXN0IG9wdGlvbnMgb3IgZ2V0IHlvdXIgYWNjb3VudCBpbmZvIApm b3IKbmFicy1sOgpodHRwOi8vbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvbmFicy1sX25mYm5l dC5vcmcvYm9va3dvcm1haGIlNAowZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldAoKCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tIG5leHQg cGFydCAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQpBIG5vbi10ZXh0IGF0dGFjaG1lbnQgd2FzIHNjcnViYmVkLi4u Ck5hbWU6IGF0dGFjaG1lbnQKVHlwZTogYXBwbGljYXRpb24vb2N0ZXQtc3RyZWFtClNpemU6IDMw NCBieXRlcwpEZXNjOiBub3QgYXZhaWxhYmxlClVSTDogPGh0dHA6Ly9uZmJuZXQub3JnL3BpcGVy bWFpbC9uYWJzLWxfbmZibmV0Lm9yZy9hdHRhY2htZW50cy8yMDEyMTIwNi9mMjNjM2Q1My9hdHRh Y2htZW50LmE+Cg== From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 23:21:59 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:21:59 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: What I'm grateful for as we enter the holiday season In-Reply-To: <102de54dee-avila.bert.humberto2=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> References: <102de54dee-avila.bert.humberto2=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> Message-ID: <002701cdd408$7eede840$7cc9b8c0$@gmail.com> From: Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare [mailto:Betsy_Beaumon_Bookshare at mail.vresp.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:17 PM To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Subject: What I'm grateful for as we enter the holiday season Dear Humberto As we enter this holiday season, I want to extend my appreciation to the more than 230,000 people with print disabilities who use Bookshare to bring the joys of reading and learning into their lives. Members of Bookshare help provide the feedback and funding we need to continually improve and expand our service. I'm grateful for the volunteers who proofread our books and increasingly provide image descriptions for our titles so that science, math, and other graphical elements of books can come alive for all of our readers. I'm thankful for our ever-growing library, which now exceeds 170,000 titles and has something for everyone. At Benetech, we are extremely grateful for the federal funding that allows us to provide Bookshare memberships to all qualified U.S. students for free. But we are mindful of those who would benefit from Bookshare and whose memberships are not covered under this funding. Perhaps they are American veterans whose wounds have limited their ability to read. Or senior citizens who are experiencing an age-related loss of vision. Or children in other countries where funding for Bookshare is unavailable. If you, like us, wish that every person with a print disability, whether student or not, whether in the U.S. or abroad, could enjoy a Bookshare membership if they desire one, we invite you to consider making a donation to help us achieve this goal. Your gift, of any amount, will make a difference. Donate Now If you know others who appreciate the value of Bookshare and may also want to help others enjoy it, please take a moment to forward this email to them. Warmest wishes to you and your family for a healthy and happy holiday season, Betsy Beaumon Vice President & General Manager, Benetech Literacy Team P.S. A tax deductible donation from you or someone you know will help ensure that Bookshare reaches more of those who need it. Thank you again for all you do. Bookshare logo _____ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe _____ Benetech 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 Palo Alto, California 94306 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. Non-Profits Email Free with VerticalResponse! From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Fri Dec 7 17:27:36 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 09:27:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: International Disability Professional Exchanges to USA Message-ID: <1354901256.25441.YahooMailClassic@web160702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Michele Scheib Subject: International Disability Professional Exchanges to USA To: clearinghouse at miusa.org Date: Thursday, December 6, 2012, 2:35 PM     International Opportunities One year ago, in honor of the UN International Day of Persons with Disabilities, you participated in our International Disability Connect 2011 virtual gathering bringing together people with disabilities worldwide. We want to reconnect to let you know about the video we launched this December, and other upcoming international opportunities. 2013 Women's Institute on Leadership and Disability (WILD) Mobility International USA (MIUSA) invites women with disabilities to apply for the 7th International Women's Institute on Leadership and Disability (WILD) to be held August 3-24, 2013 (tentative) in Eugene, Oregon, USA. WILD will bring together approximately 30 women leaders with disabilities from 30 different countries to strengthen leadership capacity, create new visions and build international networks of support for inclusive international development programming. Deadline to Apply is January 13, 2013. Application currently available in English, (French and Spanish coming soon). Alternative formats available upon request. For complete program details, eligibility requirements, and to download the application, please visit the WILD webpage. http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/ wild/wild13/wild2013 Empower Partnerships for Inclusive Communities Sponsored by the U.S. Department of State, this new project aims to create sustainable international partnerships to promote disability-inclusive communities. MIUSA is currently seeking applications from partner teams of two organizations from 73 countries. Applicant partner teams must include a Disabled People's Organization (DPO) or disability rights advocacy group, and one non-disability-specific organization seeking to increase disability inclusion. Twenty non-U.S. partner teams will be selected. Each partner team will be matched with a U.S. organization with complementary expertise, for exchange of information, experience and technical assistance. Non-U.S. partner teams will commit to the following project activities: Project: Collaborate with the U.S. partner to plan and implement a project to promote disability rights and inclusion in the non-U.S. community, with the opportunity to apply for a small grant to support the project. (U.S. partners will not be responsible to provide funding)   Professional Fellowship Exchange: One representative from each organization will participate in a three-week exchange program in the U.S. in May of 2013. Representatives must be fluent in English or American Sign Language (ASL). Individuals with disabilities and/or women are strongly encouraged.   Host a U.S. Partner: At least one representative from the U.S. partner organization will be hosted by the non-U.S. partner team, for a 7 - 14 day reciprocal Professional Fellowship Exchange and field visit in fall 2013.   Relationships: Maintain sustainable relationships between partner organizations beyond the project period, to produce lasting changes toward inclusive communities. The deadline to apply is January 7th, 2013. For complete program details, eligibility requirements, and to download the application, please visit the Empower Partnerships webpage. http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/empower Want to continue to learn of these global opportunities from Mobility International USA (MIUSA)? We will be launching the new MIUSA Global Impact E-news in 2013. You can subscribe to this new e-news to receive updates from MIUSA on a quarterly basis. http://www.miusa.org/about-miusa/mailinglists Wishing all our friends and colleagues around the world a peaceful holiday season and a prosperous upcoming year!   New Video! MIUSA releases video on women with disabilities and international development on Dec. 3rd We are pleased to announce the release of our new video, Creating A World As It Should Be®: The Power of Disabled Women Activists. The video documents the power of women leaders with disabilities in their quest to be included in international development programs. It is available on YouTube and was launched on December 3rd, 2012 in honor of International Day of Persons with Disabilities. The full 18-minute video is captioned in English, Spanish and Arabic. Please share widely! Visit the Video News Release webpage for more information. http://www.miusa.org/idd/Intldaypwds MIUSA views on the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities MIUSA acknowledges and thanks the many U.S. Senators, both Republican and Democrat, who voted to ratify the CRPD. MIUSA is greatly disappointed that the U.S. Senate did not ratify this important treaty. We also acknowledge the tireless efforts of the disability community and allies for their work and dedication. MIUSA continues to work with the international disability community and allies to implement the CRPD and other policies, to ensure that the rights of people with disabilities are respected and enforced. You are receiving this email because you participated in the International Disability Connect 2011 virtual gathering by Mobility International USA (MIUSA) with disability organizations worldwide. Our mailing address is: Mobility International 132 E. Broadway Suite 343 Eugene, Oregon 97401 clearinghouse at miusa.org, http://www.miusa.org  Copyright (C) 2012 Mobility International All rights reserved.     From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 23:25:39 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:25:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Firefox question Message-ID: <014501cdd4d2$2d2e1d70$878a5850$@gmail.com> Hi everyone, Does anybody know how to set Firefox as the default browser from the Firefox settings? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chris From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 23:48:35 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:48:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE In-Reply-To: <12684953.1354822541468.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra> References: <12684953.1354822541468.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra> Message-ID: <015501cdd4d5$603e7180$20bb5480$@gmail.com> FYI: From: Director of NFB-NEWSLINE [mailto:swhite at nfb.org] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 2:27 PM To: CHRISTOPHER NUSBAUM Subject: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE December 5, 2012 We are pleased to inform you that we have added four new publications to NFB-NEWSLINE service, which brings our total to 361 publications. NFB-NEWSLINE is an audio information service for the blind which provides access to print publications. We have 307 newspapers, including the Associated Press newswire and the United Press International newswire; 38 magazines such as the Economist and AARP Magazine; ten international newspapers including the China Daily and the Jerusalem Post, and four Blindness Specific publications such as the Braille Monitor and the Matilda Ziegler Magazine. Two of the four new publications are part of a new category labeled Breaking News Online. These are the Huffington Post, a very well-known online site, and CNN, which is part of Turner Broadcasting Systems cable news network. To access the new Breaking News Online publications, select option 5 off the main menu and then press 1. The ACB Braille Forum, a publication of the American Council of the Blind, is the third new publication. This is available in the magazine section, in the Blindness Specific category, option 7 from the main menu followed by option 1. Finally, a newspaper from Topeka, Kansas, rounds out the additions, the Topeka Capital Journal, available by accessing option number 5 from the main menu and then navigating to the state of Kansas. NFB-NEWSLINE subscribers living in Kansas can access the Topeka Capital Journal by just pressing the number 3 key after logging into NFB-NEWSLINE on the telephone. NFB-NEWSLINE also provides other types of information to the blind such as job listings, option 9 from the main menu; TV listings, option 8 from the main menu; and weekly Target ads from the Target Corporation, option 6 from the main menu. Remember that you can now read NFB-NEWSLINE publications on your iOS Device such as the iPad, the iPhone, and the iPod Touch. Just download the NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile App from the Apple App Store by searching for NFB Newsline. If you are not currently a NFB-NEWSLINE subscriber, you can register for this free service online by visiting our website at www.nfbnewsline.org, and filling out the application under the Online Application link. You can also call us at 866-504-7300 for more information on how to register. We are looking for feedback about further additions to the Breaking News Online category. If you have suggestions, please email Scott White at swhite at nfb.org, or call our comment line at 410-505-5896. Please enjoy the four new publications on NFB-NEWSLINE. The NFB-NEWSLINE Team From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 01:59:12 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:59:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: References: <50c091f1.a5b4ec0a.04c7.3769@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <016501cdd4e7$9f2cce20$dd866a60$@gmail.com> How do the interactive diagrams work? Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:56 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad If you mean in iBooks, they are more interactive than regular print books. And they have interactive diagrams and stuff. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:38 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > What's the difference between textbooks and regular books? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > I agree. Now as it could just read textbooks, should be no need for an iPad. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and it works perfectly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad > > On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in iBooks, which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would help you, but just putting it out there. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would not be very useful to us. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad > > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? I’m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 03:30:12 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 22:30:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbmd] FW: [stylist] Subject: 2013 Script Writing Intensive and Competition for students with disabilities In-Reply-To: <001801cdd316$901ea0c0$b05be240$@com> References: <001801cdd316$901ea0c0$b05be240$@com> Message-ID: <016e01cdd4f4$558bdab0$00a39010$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: Nfbmd [mailto:nfbmd-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle Clark Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:30 PM To: nfbmd at nfbnet.org Subject: [Nfbmd] FW: [stylist] Subject: 2013 Script Writing Intensive and Competition for students with disabilities This seems like agood opportunity for an older youth. Michelle -----Original Message----- From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Leslie Newman Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:09 PM To: writers nfb Subject: [stylist] Subject: 2013 Script Writing Intensive and Competition for students with disabilities Kitei & other aspiring script writers of this younger age group RE: leadership] 2013 Script Writing Intensive and Competition for Students with Disabilities Someone sent this to me and it would be a super opportunity! From: "Siegel, Betty" < BRSiegel at Kennedy-Center.org Subject: 2013 Script Writing Intensive and Competition for Students with Disabilities Date sent: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 20:05:23 +0000 (please share this information with your networks and colleagues) Are you connected to young people (age 15 to 18 years old) with disabilities who are writers? Dreaming of writing their next Broadway play or Hollywood script? If yes .. please share the following information with them. NEW! Script Writing Intensive Now Accepting Applications! DEADLINE: May 15, 2013 The Kennedy Center is pleased to announce the new Script Writing Intensive for aspiring young writers with disabilities! The Intensive will bring a select group of high school writers, with disabilities, to Washington, DC in September for a weekend of pre-professional activities, including script workshops, roundtable discussions, staged readings, and more. The program is ideal for student-writers interested in writing for the stage or screen. Please visit www.kennedy-center.org/PDP< http://www.kennedy-center.org/PDP > for more information. VSA Playwright Discovery Competition DEADLINE: June 1, 2013 The 2013 Call for Scripts is now open! The Kennedy Center invites middle and high school students to explore the disability experience-in their own life, the lives of others, or a fictional character-through the art of scriptwriting. Young writers with and without disabilities are encouraged to submit a one-act script for stage or screen. Entries may be the work of an individual student or a collaboration by a group of up to five students. The competition has two divisions: grades 6-8 and grades 9-12. Please visit www.kennedy-center.org/PDP< http://www.kennedy-center.org/PDP > for more information. Ardis Bazyn For inspirational speaking, business coaching, writing, or books: www.bazyncommunications.com Subscribe to my online newsletter _____ _______________________________________________ leadership mailing list leadership at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/leadership Robert Leslie Newman Personal Website- Adjustment To Blindness And Visual impairment http//www.thoughtprovoker.info NFB Writers' Division, president http://www.nfb-writers-division.net Chair of the NFB Communications Committee _______________________________________________ Writers Division web site http://www.writers-division.net/ stylist mailing list stylist at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/mcikeyc%40aol.com _______________________________________________ Nfbmd mailing list Nfbmd at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmd_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmd: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmd_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.co m From freethaught at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 01:26:20 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 20:26:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad In-Reply-To: References: <50c091f1.a5b4ec0a.04c7.3769@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <312F3603-EF46-45E6-A16D-3CCD284C99AF@gmail.com> Ashley, Both textbooks and so-called Regular books are copyrighted. People can put either type into specialized formats, and both can be = used for academic purposes depending on the nature of the class or = assignment. Bookshare and learning Ally make use of special exemptions in the = copyright laws for people who need materials in a specialized format. Text books are laid out in formats called for according to the subject = matter. These can make it difficult to scan or read certain elements = like a table. As for the person asking about the iPad I Would remind them that the iPad and iPhone are very similar devices. = Both connect with braille displays via bluethooth. Both can connect to = Bluetooth keyboard. Most apps will run in either device. I would not think that an iPhone user needs an iPad since the devices = are functionally about the same. Antonio =20 On Dec 6, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ashley Bramlett = wrote > sophie, > textbooks are our academic books; they can be produced in alternative = formats. On the other hand, regular books are copyrighted and have to = get permission to reproduce them in an accessible format. This is only = for specialized formats like daisy books or > scanned books. It does not apply to regular e-books sold online. >=20 > Ashley >=20 > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:38 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >=20 > What's the difference between textbooks and regular books? >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:13:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >=20 > I agree. Now as it could just read textbooks, should be no need > for an iPad. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: >=20 > Josh, I use iBooks on my phone. I read many books that way, and > it works perfectly. >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:26:14 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPad >=20 > On the contrary, it can do things like read text books in > iBooks, which the iPhone cannot do. I don't know if that would > help you, but just putting it out there. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Dec 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Sophie Trist > wrote: >=20 > Hi Ian, >=20 > If you already have an iPhone, I see no reason why you need to > spend additional money on an iPad. An iPad performs essentially > the same functions as an iPhone, except unlike the phone, it > doesn't have a built-in app for calls. As far as I know, the only > benefit of an iPad is that it has a bigger screen, which would > not be very useful to us. >=20 > Best wishes, > Sophie >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:46:23 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] IPad >=20 > HI All, > I have an IPhone, and am thinking about getting an IPad. Is that > as accessible? Is there a tactile keyboard? Is there a way to get > a braille display? What have you thought of the IPad? Is it easy > to use and does it feel like the modern version of a note-taker? > I?=99m trying to figure out whether to get one in addition to my > laptop and IPhone. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >=20 > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >=20 > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >=20 > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >=20 > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for = nabs-l: > = http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlin= k.net=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for = nabs-l: > = http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.co= m From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 9 03:09:40 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2012 21:09:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS with MATLAB In-Reply-To: <034f01cdd35a$7eb9de00$7c2d9a00$@gmail.com> References: <034f01cdd35a$7eb9de00$7c2d9a00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: You might get a better answer on our nfb-science list, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-science_nfbnet.org or our blindmath list, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org Dave >Good evening, > > > >I am wondering if anybody has experience using JAWS with MATLAB. I am trying >to assist a student who is struggling with access to the program, and, >therefore, the curriculum for an aeronautics major. Please write to me off >list at nabs.president at gmail.com if you have any experience or information >that might be beneficial. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Sean From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sun Dec 9 13:50:07 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:50:07 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE In-Reply-To: References: <12689343.1354822231546.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra>, Message-ID: Why would NFB Newsline put an ACB magazine on their site? Things that make you go "hmmm?" Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: Joshua Lester [jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 AM To: Joshua Lester Subject: Fwd: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Director of NFB-NEWSLINE Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE To: Joshua Lester Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE December 5, 2012 We are pleased to inform you that we have added four new publications to NFB-NEWSLINE service, which brings our total to 361 publications. NFB-NEWSLINE is an audio information service for the blind which provides access to print publications. We have 307 newspapers, including the Associated Press newswire and the United Press International newswire; 38 magazines such as the Economist and AARP Magazine; ten international newspapers including the China Daily and the Jerusalem Post, and four Blindness Specific publications such as the Braille Monitor and the Matilda Ziegler Magazine. Two of the four new publications are part of a new category labeled Breaking News Online. These are the Huffington Post, a very well-known online site, and CNN, which is part of Turner Broadcasting Systems cable news network. To access the new Breaking News Online publications, select option 5 off the main menu and then press 1. The ACB Braille Forum, a publication of the American Council of the Blind, is the third new publication. This is available in the magazine section, in the Blindness Specific category, option 7 from the main menu followed by option 1. Finally, a newspaper from Topeka, Kansas, rounds out the additions, the Topeka Capital Journal, available by accessing option number 5 from the main menu and then navigating to the state of Kansas. NFB-NEWSLINE subscribers living in Kansas can access the Topeka Capital Journal by just pressing the number 3 key after logging into NFB-NEWSLINE on the telephone. NFB-NEWSLINE also provides other types of information to the blind such as job listings, option 9 from the main menu; TV listings, option 8 from the main menu; and weekly Target ads from the Target Corporation, option 6 from the main menu. Remember that you can now read NFB-NEWSLINE publications on your iOS Device such as the iPad, the iPhone, and the iPod Touch. Just download the NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile App from the Apple App Store by searching for NFB Newsline. If you are not currently a NFB-NEWSLINE subscriber, you can register for this free service online by visiting our website at www.nfbnewsline.org, and filling out the application under the Online Application link. You can also call us at 866-504-7300 for more information on how to register. We are looking for feedback about further additions to the Breaking News Online category. If you have suggestions, please email Scott White at swhite at nfb.org, or call our comment line at 410-505-5896. Please enjoy the four new publications on NFB-NEWSLINE. The NFB-NEWSLINE Team From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 17:32:41 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 09:32:41 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Message-ID: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sun Dec 9 17:37:53 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 17:37:53 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Never heard of them. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 18:05:22 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:05:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the Victor reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is put paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of paperclips. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 9 18:52:40 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 12:52:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Virginia Computer Instructor Job Message-ID: At the Virginia Rehabilitation Center for the Blind and Vision Impaired located in Richmond, Virginia, we are recruiting for our second computer instructor position. We are looking for candidates who have experience teaching various populations basic computer functions as well as the use of IOS products. At VRCBVI we have developed a team that has high expectations of students and that promotes creative activities that challenge students to do what they thought was impossible because of their blindness. We have a quote in our lobby that everyone notices when entering the front door: "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined." From the time they enter our program, we want our students and their families to be focused on achieving their dreams, and VRCBVI is here to help them do just that. I am requesting that you post the availability of this job on all applicable listservs to get the information out to individuals who may be interested in being a part of a dynamic and creative team at VRCBVI. If folks have questions, they are welcome to call me at 804-371-3323. They are also welcome to contact our computer instructor, Mike Fish at 804-371-3327 to find out more information about the day-to-day functions of the job. Thank you for your assistance in getting the word out about this exciting opportunity. Here is the information and link from our H.R. department: Good afternoon! Listed below are positions with the Virginia Department for the Blind and Vision Impaired, the Virginia Rehabilitation Center for the Blind and Vision Impaired, and/or the Virginia Industries for the Blind. These positions may be accessed directly in the Recruitment Management System (RMS) by clicking on the Quicklink. If you already have your application established in the RMS, applying for the position will be very streamlined and take only a few minutes. If you have not yet completed your online application in the RMS, you may visit http://jobs.agencies.virginia.gov to begin the process or simply click on the Quicklink below. While the system will not allow you to apply until you have established your application, you will be able to access the application through this site. Please be aware that we ONLY accept fully completed RMS online applications (required) and applications only are accepted for advertised vacancies. Job postings close at 5 p.m. on the closing date. You may attach cover letters and resumes and in some cases are required to submit college or university transcripts or professional certifications (see job posting for instructions). These may be scanned and attached to your online applications, faxed, or mailed to the appropriate recruiting contact. Please review the posting for any special requirements or instructions. Agency: Virginia Rehabilitation Center for the Blind and Vision Impaired Job Title: Computer Instructor Location: Henrico (suburb of Richmond) Position #: 00038 Closing Date: Open Until Filled Quicklink: http://jobs.agencies.virginia.gov/applicants/Central?quickFind=160652 Melody Roane, Director Virginia Rehabilitation Center for the Blind & Vision Impaired 401 Azalea Avenue Richmond, Virginia 23227 Phone: 804.371.3323 Email: melody.roane at dbvi.virginia.gov Worldwide Web: http://www.vrcbvi.org From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 19:08:12 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:08:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Personally I never understood the utility of highlighting in textbooks. Actually when I tutor sighted students I encourage them to take notes on a passage instead of highlighting the relevant sections. When you write a summary of what you are reading, or even just copy key phrases verbatim, your brain is engaging more deeply with the material than if you just mark something as important and come back to it later. Eventually your goal should be to commit important points to memory rather than having to review highlights over and over again, and one way to incrase your retention of material is to actively process it by summarizing it in your own words or at least writing it down. If you are concerned about a Braille notetaker or computer crashing, back up your notes regularly, even daily if you want to. I find notetaking an extremely effective way to glean the important points out of a piece of reading and then review only those important points, instead of having to go through the textbook over and over again to review highlights. If I am missing something and you actually know of a good reason why highlighting is helpful, please let me know so I can give my students more balanced information. Best, Arielle On 12/9/12, Hope Paulos wrote: > Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the Victor > reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can > even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may > be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is put > paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this > may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of > paperclips. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >> the Braille readable? >> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >> with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in >> another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can >> fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot >> of dots after a while). >> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >> know! >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 19:23:03 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 11:23:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, No, I'm looking for something that I can use with Braille. Audio is not something I can read aloud very easy or mark silently and quickly which is what I need to constantly be doing. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Hope Paulos Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:05 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the Victor reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is put paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of paperclips. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping > the Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do > with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in > another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can > fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot > of dots after a while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me > know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 19:34:43 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 11:34:43 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2><32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <380DB22E941C4A9A9369282243F1F781@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I use it for marking scripts and music. I am given about 6 new pieces of music a week that I need to perform. I need to memorize them and I'm given 30 minutes with a coach to get 2 or 3 pieces performance ready. This means things are lightning fast and even though I have a recorder, it doesn't help in the lesson itself. If I'm told to breathe in a spot I have muscle memory to fight against when I'm reading and often times the teacher will get fixated on that one thing as if I fail to correct that 100% of the time it keeps me from doing the rest of the phrase correctly. Also when I am given a script 15 minutes before I go in for a performance, I have to mark the score to remind myself of dynamics and what not. In English class, I use the highlights to point me to a section of a book to where I can glean new information every time. If I mark the page and phrase in the book it takes a very long time and as often times one has no idea what they will be writing in the future, I need to reread that section. I memorize my marks and what is at either mark and move to those marks. This also works on a word document. Highlighters are for speed mostly and are a tool that helps when one has hardly enough time to read the books let alone write out notes. This is one of the reasons why honors students at the Ivey league schools have belts of high lighters. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:08 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Personally I never understood the utility of highlighting in textbooks. Actually when I tutor sighted students I encourage them to take notes on a passage instead of highlighting the relevant sections. When you write a summary of what you are reading, or even just copy key phrases verbatim, your brain is engaging more deeply with the material than if you just mark something as important and come back to it later. Eventually your goal should be to commit important points to memory rather than having to review highlights over and over again, and one way to incrase your retention of material is to actively process it by summarizing it in your own words or at least writing it down. If you are concerned about a Braille notetaker or computer crashing, back up your notes regularly, even daily if you want to. I find notetaking an extremely effective way to glean the important points out of a piece of reading and then review only those important points, instead of having to go through the textbook over and over again to review highlights. If I am missing something and you actually know of a good reason why highlighting is helpful, please let me know so I can give my students more balanced information. Best, Arielle On 12/9/12, Hope Paulos wrote: > Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the > Victor > reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can > even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may > be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is > put > paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this > may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of > paperclips. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >> the Braille readable? >> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >> with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in >> another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can >> fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot >> of dots after a while). >> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >> know! >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 19:38:54 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 14:38:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Brandon, One thing which might work is putting placemarkers in your books. If you're reading books on the BrailleNote, you can insert placemarkers at the beginning of important paragraphs/sentences that you'll need later. Then, when you go back later, you can jump directly to that particular placemarker. Another suggestion you might try is this. If you're working with hardcopy Braille books, put a paperclip on the top of the page that you'll need for later. Then you'll open directly to that page and you'll know that the paragraph you need is right in front of you. Like Arielle, I find highlighting to be pretty useless. If I take notes on a book, I always just use a separate document. Well, hope that helped. Patrick On 12/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > No, I'm looking for something that I can use with Braille. Audio is not > something I can read aloud very easy or mark silently and quickly which is > what I need to constantly be doing. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Hope Paulos > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:05 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the Victor > > reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can > even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may > be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is put > > paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this > may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of > paperclips. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >> the Braille readable? >> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >> with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in >> another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can >> fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot >> of dots after a while). >> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >> know! >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 20:05:45 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:05:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Brandon, As I've said before, I think overgeneralizing can be a problem. I suspect some students at ivy league schools have "textbooks full of highlights", I imagine some are like Arielle and prefer to take notes in separate documents; still, others might have editic memories and barely glance at their textbooks. (I suspect that group is a very small minority.) Anyways, my point is that it can be very detremental to assume there is only one way to successfully do what you need to. I'm sure all successful students don't rely on highlighting; I think we have enough evidence from this list to know there are multiple good ways to accomplish things. I'm certainly not a music expert (that's your arena), but I'd imagine there is probably another way to do what you need. Just a thought, take it for what it's worth. Best, Kirt On 12/9/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Brandon, > One thing which might work is putting placemarkers in your books. If > you're reading books on the BrailleNote, you can insert placemarkers > at the beginning of important paragraphs/sentences that you'll need > later. Then, when you go back later, you can jump directly to that > particular placemarker. > Another suggestion you might try is this. If you're working with > hardcopy Braille books, put a paperclip on the top of the page that > you'll need for later. Then you'll open directly to that page and > you'll know that the paragraph you need is right in front of you. Like > Arielle, I find highlighting to be pretty useless. If I take notes on > a book, I always just use a separate document. Well, hope that helped. > Patrick > > On 12/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> No, I'm looking for something that I can use with Braille. Audio is not >> something I can read aloud very easy or mark silently and quickly which >> is >> what I need to constantly be doing. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hope Paulos >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:05 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the >> Victor >> >> reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can >> even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This >> may >> be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is >> put >> >> paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this >> may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of >> paperclips. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >>> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >>> the Braille readable? >>> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >>> with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in >>> another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can >>> fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot >>> of dots after a while). >>> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >>> know! >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 20:09:15 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:09:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE In-Reply-To: References: <12689343.1354822231546.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra> Message-ID: Joshua, I think it's because NFB Newsline isn't only for Federationists. If they're trying to market it to the whole blind and print disabled community, I think it would make sense to include material from as much of that community as is practical. I think of myself as a Federationist in terms of philosophy (that doesn't mean I'm very involved with the NFB. There's a difference, sometimes), but I see no harm in reading something from the Braille Forum if it seems worthwhile. Best, Kirt On 12/9/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Why would NFB Newsline put an ACB magazine on their site? > Things that make you go "hmmm?" > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: Joshua Lester [jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu] > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 AM > To: Joshua Lester > Subject: Fwd: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Director of NFB-NEWSLINE > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:56 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE > To: Joshua Lester > > Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE > > December 5, 2012 > > We are pleased to inform you that we have added four new publications > to NFB-NEWSLINE service, which brings our total to 361 publications. > NFB-NEWSLINE is an audio information service for the blind which > provides access to print publications. We have 307 newspapers, > including the Associated Press newswire and the United Press > International newswire; 38 magazines such as the Economist and AARP > Magazine; ten international newspapers including the China Daily and > the Jerusalem Post, and four Blindness Specific publications such as > the Braille Monitor and the Matilda Ziegler Magazine. > > Two of the four new publications are part of a new category labeled > Breaking News Online. These are the Huffington Post, a very well-known > online site, and CNN, which is part of Turner Broadcasting Systems > cable news network. To access the new Breaking News Online > publications, select option 5 off the main menu and then press 1. > > The ACB Braille Forum, a publication of the American Council of the > Blind, is the third new publication. This is available in the magazine > section, in the Blindness Specific category, option 7 from the main > menu followed by option 1. > > Finally, a newspaper from Topeka, Kansas, rounds out the additions, > the Topeka Capital Journal, available by accessing option number 5 > from the main menu and then navigating to the state of Kansas. > NFB-NEWSLINE subscribers living in Kansas can access the Topeka > Capital Journal by just pressing the number 3 key after logging into > NFB-NEWSLINE on the telephone. > > NFB-NEWSLINE also provides other types of information to the blind > such as job listings, option 9 from the main menu; TV listings, option > 8 from the main menu; and weekly Target ads from the Target > Corporation, option 6 from the main menu. > > Remember that you can now read NFB-NEWSLINE publications on your iOS > Device such as the iPad, the iPhone, and the iPod Touch. Just download > the NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile App from the Apple App Store by searching for > NFB Newsline. > > If you are not currently a NFB-NEWSLINE subscriber, you can register > for this free service online by visiting our website at > www.nfbnewsline.org, and filling out the application under the Online > Application link. You can also call us at 866-504-7300 for more > information on how to register. > > We are looking for feedback about further additions to the Breaking > News Online category. If you have suggestions, please email Scott > White at swhite at nfb.org, or call our comment line at 410-505-5896. > Please enjoy the four new publications on NFB-NEWSLINE. > > The NFB-NEWSLINE Team > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 20:30:36 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:30:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE In-Reply-To: References: <12689343.1354822231546.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra> Message-ID: Agreed. Also if NFB-Newsline gives fair inclusion to ACB material, it gives ACB less of a reason to try to attack Newsline or argue for decreased funding, which I believe has happened in the past. Arielle On 12/9/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > I think it's because NFB Newsline isn't only for Federationists. If > they're trying to market it to the whole blind and print disabled > community, I think it would make sense to include material from as > much of that community as is practical. I think of myself as a > Federationist in terms of philosophy (that doesn't mean I'm very > involved with the NFB. There's a difference, sometimes), but I see no > harm in reading something from the Braille Forum if it seems > worthwhile. > Best, > Kirt > > On 12/9/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Why would NFB Newsline put an ACB magazine on their site? >> Things that make you go "hmmm?" >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: Joshua Lester [jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 AM >> To: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Fwd: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Director of NFB-NEWSLINE >> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:56 -0500 (EST) >> Subject: Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE >> To: Joshua Lester >> >> Four New Publications Added to NFB-NEWSLINE >> >> December 5, 2012 >> >> We are pleased to inform you that we have added four new publications >> to NFB-NEWSLINE service, which brings our total to 361 publications. >> NFB-NEWSLINE is an audio information service for the blind which >> provides access to print publications. We have 307 newspapers, >> including the Associated Press newswire and the United Press >> International newswire; 38 magazines such as the Economist and AARP >> Magazine; ten international newspapers including the China Daily and >> the Jerusalem Post, and four Blindness Specific publications such as >> the Braille Monitor and the Matilda Ziegler Magazine. >> >> Two of the four new publications are part of a new category labeled >> Breaking News Online. These are the Huffington Post, a very well-known >> online site, and CNN, which is part of Turner Broadcasting Systems >> cable news network. To access the new Breaking News Online >> publications, select option 5 off the main menu and then press 1. >> >> The ACB Braille Forum, a publication of the American Council of the >> Blind, is the third new publication. This is available in the magazine >> section, in the Blindness Specific category, option 7 from the main >> menu followed by option 1. >> >> Finally, a newspaper from Topeka, Kansas, rounds out the additions, >> the Topeka Capital Journal, available by accessing option number 5 >> from the main menu and then navigating to the state of Kansas. >> NFB-NEWSLINE subscribers living in Kansas can access the Topeka >> Capital Journal by just pressing the number 3 key after logging into >> NFB-NEWSLINE on the telephone. >> >> NFB-NEWSLINE also provides other types of information to the blind >> such as job listings, option 9 from the main menu; TV listings, option >> 8 from the main menu; and weekly Target ads from the Target >> Corporation, option 6 from the main menu. >> >> Remember that you can now read NFB-NEWSLINE publications on your iOS >> Device such as the iPad, the iPhone, and the iPod Touch. Just download >> the NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile App from the Apple App Store by searching for >> NFB Newsline. >> >> If you are not currently a NFB-NEWSLINE subscriber, you can register >> for this free service online by visiting our website at >> www.nfbnewsline.org, and filling out the application under the Online >> Application link. You can also call us at 866-504-7300 for more >> information on how to register. >> >> We are looking for feedback about further additions to the Breaking >> News Online category. If you have suggestions, please email Scott >> White at swhite at nfb.org, or call our comment line at 410-505-5896. >> Please enjoy the four new publications on NFB-NEWSLINE. >> >> The NFB-NEWSLINE Team >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 20:40:29 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:40:29 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2><32A81168-2BA1-49D6-A2F4-7D23566DD71E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, There may possibly be another way of marking in breath marks, putting in a dynamic into the score and whatnot for a read through, but it hasn't been invented yet to my knowledge. I just was wondering if anyone had ever heard of Braille highlighters before. If not it may be something that should be created as it can never heart to get more tools at our disposal as students. And closer our tools are to what other class mates use, more our teacher can focus on teaching us and less time coming up with workarounds. In a school where my longest class is 50 minutes, following the teacher's instructions to the T is imperative because he knows how students learn best and disrupting that flow for accommodations is only detrimental to me because I can't focus on the content 100% like I need to. So I am looking for highlighters because all 11 of my classes this quarter had on the syllabus "Bring a highlighter, pencil and your script/score to class" Now I am at the end of the quarter I am realizing that my alternative techniques aren't working as well, so I'm looking for what the teacher requires. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 12:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Brandon, As I've said before, I think overgeneralizing can be a problem. I suspect some students at ivy league schools have "textbooks full of highlights", I imagine some are like Arielle and prefer to take notes in separate documents; still, others might have editic memories and barely glance at their textbooks. (I suspect that group is a very small minority.) Anyways, my point is that it can be very detremental to assume there is only one way to successfully do what you need to. I'm sure all successful students don't rely on highlighting; I think we have enough evidence from this list to know there are multiple good ways to accomplish things. I'm certainly not a music expert (that's your arena), but I'd imagine there is probably another way to do what you need. Just a thought, take it for what it's worth. Best, Kirt On 12/9/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Brandon, > One thing which might work is putting placemarkers in your books. If > you're reading books on the BrailleNote, you can insert placemarkers > at the beginning of important paragraphs/sentences that you'll need > later. Then, when you go back later, you can jump directly to that > particular placemarker. > Another suggestion you might try is this. If you're working with > hardcopy Braille books, put a paperclip on the top of the page that > you'll need for later. Then you'll open directly to that page and > you'll know that the paragraph you need is right in front of you. Like > Arielle, I find highlighting to be pretty useless. If I take notes on > a book, I always just use a separate document. Well, hope that helped. > Patrick > > On 12/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> No, I'm looking for something that I can use with Braille. Audio is not >> something I can read aloud very easy or mark silently and quickly which >> is >> what I need to constantly be doing. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hope Paulos >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:05 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the >> Victor >> >> reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can >> even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This >> may >> be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is >> put >> >> paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this >> may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of >> paperclips. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >>> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >>> the Braille readable? >>> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >>> with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in >>> another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can >>> fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot >>> of dots after a while). >>> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >>> know! >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 21:35:58 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:35:58 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook and Emailing? Message-ID: Hello, This is a little off topic, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this or knows how I can stop it? I like to respond to people's facebook posts by using the email reply. This however seems to add a "facebook" before every one of my messages. FacebookIt was so nice to see you yesterday! It looks very odd and I'm not sure if it is my screen reader or what. I've never seen this on anyone else's messages and I don't think I'm the only one who likes to reply to messages through email. I go down to the tag of my message and hit ctrl shift home to select to the top of the message and delete everything when I start composing, so I know there is no "facebook" in the body of my message. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can remove this annoying word? Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 23:07:38 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 18:07:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook and Emailing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006b01cdd661$fcb0cf30$f6126d90$@gmail.com> Hi Brandon, Perhaps your message is somehow being placed after the original message. Make sure you are at the top of the message before you start to write. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook and Emailing? Hello, This is a little off topic, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this or knows how I can stop it? I like to respond to people's facebook posts by using the email reply. This however seems to add a "facebook" before every one of my messages. FacebookIt was so nice to see you yesterday! It looks very odd and I'm not sure if it is my screen reader or what. I've never seen this on anyone else's messages and I don't think I'm the only one who likes to reply to messages through email. I go down to the tag of my message and hit ctrl shift home to select to the top of the message and delete everything when I start composing, so I know there is no "facebook" in the body of my message. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can remove this annoying word? Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:42:56 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:42:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Message-ID: <50c53032.b0eb440a.2d17.4ba8@mx.google.com> Hello, I am trying to find sites similar to the zonebbs.com. I was banned from there in 2010 and they won't let me come back. It's the only good social networking site for the blind I can go on on the BrailleNote. Thanks Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Brandon, One thing which might work is putting placemarkers in your books. If you're reading books on the BrailleNote, you can insert placemarkers at the beginning of important paragraphs/sentences that you'll need later. Then, when you go back later, you can jump directly to that particular placemarker. Another suggestion you might try is this. If you're working with hardcopy Braille books, put a paperclip on the top of the page that you'll need for later. Then you'll open directly to that page and you'll know that the paragraph you need is right in front of you. Like Arielle, I find highlighting to be pretty useless. If I take notes on a book, I always just use a separate document. Well, hope that helped. Patrick On 12/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, No, I'm looking for something that I can use with Braille. Audio is not something I can read aloud very easy or mark silently and quickly which is what I need to constantly be doing. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Hope Paulos Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:05 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the Victor reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is put paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of paperclips. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud e%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From missheather at comcast.net Mon Dec 10 00:46:22 2012 From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 18:46:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Hello Brandon, There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and fast for you to use on the fly. My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print readers. I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a combination of both is your final answer. Warmly, Heather field -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:56:46 2012 From: trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com (winona) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 19:56:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Message-ID: <50c5335a.135a650a.3acd.fffff062@mx.google.com> Hi Brandon, In English class and sometimes with my Braille music, I use Graphing tape by FIMC. It is like masking tape but it's thin enough to fit in between the braille lines. But the big problem with it is that it takes to much time to put the tape on the page. Hope this helps, Winona trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com "Your horn is just an amplifier for the music inside you." - Robert W. Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Molloy wrote: Hello, No, I'm looking for something that I can use with Braille. Audio is not something I can read aloud very easy or mark silently and quickly which is what I need to constantly be doing. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Hope Paulos Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:05 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Can you get the audio version of the book as well? A player like the Victor reader stream will allow you to highlight things in audio format. You can even put a voice note to remind you of what the section is about. This may be handy while reading along in braille. Another option I used to do is put paperclips on a specific section of Braille material. Unfortunately, this may get confusing because like with the dots, there'd be a lot of paperclips. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trumpetqueenw b%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:58:54 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 17:58:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: Hi Brandon, I apologize, I didn't realize that you needed the highlighter to add notation to a Braille score that isn't already there (i.e. breath marks). I totally understand now why you would need a highlighter of some sort. I like Heather's suggestions, or maybe you could try scratching out some of the dots in one of the Braille music letters? Like not completely scratched out, but one dot partially scratched out of a music symbol means one thing, two dots partially scratched mean another, etc. Sorry I don't have better suggestions. Arielle On 12/9/12, Heather Field wrote: > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. > > However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have a > > couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their > success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and > fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment with > > cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of different > > sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks > into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece vertically > > in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was > > a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer > piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could > > go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other > positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other > reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, is > > to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the > paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, holes > > down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. Thus, > > when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you had > > positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole > by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material > > would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small > tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it > under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and > made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do > with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after > a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 01:02:09 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 17:02:09 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: <278E2042AE624A79BADE094ECA2A3713@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, what comes to mind are the whiteout rollers or pens, but I'm not sure if those would change the texture fast. I am afraid that Wikki sticks would fall off as I am transporting my music all over the bay area constantly in many different modes of transportation. Perhaps some markers that use a kind of paint or really thick ink as well. I believe I saw some of those once a long time ago, but nothing since. I'm not sure what would happen if I went into an office supply store and asked for markers and other light substances that change the texture of the paper. It would work putting graphing tape on the page if there was a pen or spool that cut the tape fast. I wonder if there is a tape as thin as saran wrap. I could put over Braille words instead? I guess if anyone randomly uncovers something like this, let me know! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Heather Field Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello Brandon, There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and fast for you to use on the fly. My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print readers. I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a combination of both is your final answer. Warmly, Heather field -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 01:06:23 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 17:06:23 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2><43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: Hello, I tried doing that at the start, but because there are more Braille symbols in music than one can dream of and one dot means a huge difference, it soon proved to just make music harder to read. This is part of the reason why I don't like reading music on the Braille note, there seems to be a 3rd octave E quarter note everywhere, randomly! I like the suggestion though! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hi Brandon, I apologize, I didn't realize that you needed the highlighter to add notation to a Braille score that isn't already there (i.e. breath marks). I totally understand now why you would need a highlighter of some sort. I like Heather's suggestions, or maybe you could try scratching out some of the dots in one of the Braille music letters? Like not completely scratched out, but one dot partially scratched out of a music symbol means one thing, two dots partially scratched mean another, etc. Sorry I don't have better suggestions. Arielle On 12/9/12, Heather Field wrote: > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you > want. > > However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have > a > > couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their > success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and > fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment > with > > cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of > different > > sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks > into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece > vertically > > in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there > was > > a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer > piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it > could > > go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other > positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other > reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, > is > > to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the > paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, > holes > > down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. > Thus, > > when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you > had > > positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole > by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber > material > > would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small > tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it > under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and > made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping > the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do > with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off > on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after > a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me > know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From missheather at comcast.net Mon Dec 10 01:18:38 2012 From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 19:18:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <278E2042AE624A79BADE094ECA2A3713@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2><43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> <278E2042AE624A79BADE094ECA2A3713@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello Brandon, There are pens called Puff Paint pens and they do dispense a nice line of paint that you could certainly use. However, I don't know how long the paint takes to dry. You could buy one at a craft store and experiment at home. The white out pens are more runny but it might be worth a try also. It seems like a visit to your local craft store, piece of old music paper in hand, might be your next step. Your could ask for a manager and ask if he'd be willing to talk to you about some options and let you try them out. Best, Heather -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, what comes to mind are the whiteout rollers or pens, but I'm not sure if those would change the texture fast. I am afraid that Wikki sticks would fall off as I am transporting my music all over the bay area constantly in many different modes of transportation. Perhaps some markers that use a kind of paint or really thick ink as well. I believe I saw some of those once a long time ago, but nothing since. I'm not sure what would happen if I went into an office supply store and asked for markers and other light substances that change the texture of the paper. It would work putting graphing tape on the page if there was a pen or spool that cut the tape fast. I wonder if there is a tape as thin as saran wrap. I could put over Braille words instead? I guess if anyone randomly uncovers something like this, let me know! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Heather Field Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello Brandon, There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and fast for you to use on the fly. My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print readers. I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a combination of both is your final answer. Warmly, Heather field -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From kobycox at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 01:24:29 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 19:24:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> <278E2042AE624A79BADE094ECA2A3713@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: 24 hours. Koby. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 7:18 PM, "Heather Field" wrote: > Hello Brandon, > There are pens called Puff Paint pens and they do dispense a nice line of paint that you could certainly use. However, I don't know how long the paint takes to dry. You could buy one at a craft store and experiment at home. The white out pens are more runny but it might be worth a try also. It seems like a visit to your local craft store, piece of old music paper in hand, might be your next step. Your could ask for a manager and ask if he'd be willing to talk to you about some options and let you try them out. > Best, > Heather > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > what comes to mind are the whiteout rollers or pens, but I'm not sure if > those would change the texture fast. > I am afraid that Wikki sticks would fall off as I am transporting my music > all over the bay area constantly in many different modes of transportation. > Perhaps some markers that use a kind of paint or really thick ink as well. I > believe I saw some of those once a long time ago, but nothing since. > I'm not sure what would happen if I went into an office supply store and > asked for markers and other light substances that change the texture of the > paper. > It would work putting graphing tape on the page if there was a pen or spool > that cut the tape fast. I wonder if there is a tape as thin as saran wrap. I > could put over Braille words instead? > I guess if anyone randomly uncovers something like this, let me know! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Heather Field > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. > However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have a > couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their > success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and > fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment with > cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of different > sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks > into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece vertically > in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was > a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer > piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could > go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other > positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other > reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, is > to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the > paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, holes > down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. Thus, > when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you had > positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole > by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material > would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small > tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it > under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and > made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 01:47:57 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 20:47:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> <278E2042AE624A79BADE094ECA2A3713@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <8DC0A687-D809-418D-A799-463FCC6E10BE@gmail.com> Hi, I'm not quite sure, but I think puff paint takes about 24 hours to dry. It's either that, or 12. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 8:18 PM, "Heather Field" wrote: > Hello Brandon, > There are pens called Puff Paint pens and they do dispense a nice line of paint that you could certainly use. However, I don't know how long the paint takes to dry. You could buy one at a craft store and experiment at home. The white out pens are more runny but it might be worth a try also. It seems like a visit to your local craft store, piece of old music paper in hand, might be your next step. Your could ask for a manager and ask if he'd be willing to talk to you about some options and let you try them out. > Best, > Heather > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > what comes to mind are the whiteout rollers or pens, but I'm not sure if > those would change the texture fast. > I am afraid that Wikki sticks would fall off as I am transporting my music > all over the bay area constantly in many different modes of transportation. > Perhaps some markers that use a kind of paint or really thick ink as well. I > believe I saw some of those once a long time ago, but nothing since. > I'm not sure what would happen if I went into an office supply store and > asked for markers and other light substances that change the texture of the > paper. > It would work putting graphing tape on the page if there was a pen or spool > that cut the tape fast. I wonder if there is a tape as thin as saran wrap. I > could put over Braille words instead? > I guess if anyone randomly uncovers something like this, let me know! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Heather Field > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. > However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I have a > couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim to their > success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be simple and > fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment with > cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of different > sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of Wikki sticks > into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small piece vertically > in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was > a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer > piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could > go below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other > positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other > reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, is > to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under the > paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, holes > down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the stylus. Thus, > when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the spot where you had > positioned the point to come through, you could stop it from making a hole > by putting the slate over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material > would work just as well. You could also experiment with using a small > tracing wheel, available from the American Printing house, and using it > under the paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and > made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 01:53:36 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 17:53:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] article about a fellow federationest Message-ID: <1355104416.79112.YahooMailClassic@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> My cousin from Dubai posted this article on my facebook. Dubai blind boy is now Obama's adviser http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/government/dubai-blind-boy-is-now-obama-s-adviser-1.1114954 From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 01:56:36 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:56:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Message-ID: <50c54177.eaea440a.1f27.4e65@mx.google.com> Hello everyone, I'll ask this again since I forgot to change the subject line. Does anyone know of any good sites like zonebbs.com that have message boards and stuff that work on the BrailleNote? I got baned from the zone in 2010 and they won't let me come back. Thanks in advance, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <50c54177.eaea440a.1f27.4e65@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, Not changing the subject line is considered "Hijacking" on many message boards and is grounds for getting band. Facebook. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello everyone, I'll ask this again since I forgot to change the subject line. Does anyone know of any good sites like zonebbs.com that have message boards and stuff that work on the BrailleNote? I got baned from the zone in 2010 and they won't let me come back. Thanks in advance, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> <278E2042AE624A79BADE094ECA2A3713@BrandonsLaptop2> <8DC0A687-D809-418D-A799-463FCC6E10BE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <008701cdd67a$9aaa0400$cffe0c00$@gmail.com> Yes, between 12 and 24 hours. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hi, I'm not quite sure, but I think puff paint takes about 24 hours to dry. It's either that, or 12. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2012, at 8:18 PM, "Heather Field" wrote: > Hello Brandon, > There are pens called Puff Paint pens and they do dispense a nice line of paint that you could certainly use. However, I don't know how long the paint takes to dry. You could buy one at a craft store and experiment at home. The white out pens are more runny but it might be worth a try also. It seems like a visit to your local craft store, piece of old music paper in hand, might be your next step. Your could ask for a manager and ask if he'd be willing to talk to you about some options and let you try them out. > Best, > Heather > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > what comes to mind are the whiteout rollers or pens, but I'm not sure > if those would change the texture fast. > I am afraid that Wikki sticks would fall off as I am transporting my > music all over the bay area constantly in many different modes of transportation. > Perhaps some markers that use a kind of paint or really thick ink as > well. I believe I saw some of those once a long time ago, but nothing since. > I'm not sure what would happen if I went into an office supply store > and asked for markers and other light substances that change the > texture of the paper. > It would work putting graphing tape on the page if there was a pen or > spool that cut the tape fast. I wonder if there is a tape as thin as > saran wrap. I could put over Braille words instead? > I guess if anyone randomly uncovers something like this, let me know! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Heather Field > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you want. > However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. I > have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no > claim to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that > will be simple and fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from > any local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could > experiment with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in > the same craft department, a small, flat box that is divided into > compartments of different sizes. Then, you could separate the > different sized pieces of Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, > you could place a very small piece vertically in the space before the > phrase that requires a reminded action. If there was a phrase that > required an extra loud or soft tone, you could have a longer piece of > Wikki stick that ran horizontally under the whole phrase; it could go > below for softer and above for louder. You could work out other > positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility > idea, is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines > from under the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which > you positioned, holes down, roughly over the line under which you had > positioned the stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under > the paper to the spot where you had positioned the point to come > through, you could stop it from making a hole by putting the slate > over it. A small square of neoprene or rubber material would work just > as well. You could also experiment with using a small tracing wheel, > available from the American Printing house, and using it under the > paper while you kept your fingers on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these > techniques, it would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on > your part. I agree with you that, at this level of performance, you > really do need to streamline the process and get a set of tactile > marking in place that does an equivalent job for a tactile reader that > highlighters do for print readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find > that a combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still > keeping the Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to > do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes > in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that > can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes > a lot of dots after a while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comc > ast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From mistydbradley at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 04:17:30 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 23:17:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: Hi, I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a tactile kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive it is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for different things. Hope this helps, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you > want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. > I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim > to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be > simple and fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment > with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of > different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of > Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small > piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded > action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, > you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under > the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You > could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for > example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I > had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, > is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under > the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, > holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the > stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the > spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop it > from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of > neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also > experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American > Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers > on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you > want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping > the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do > with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off > on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after > a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me > know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From missheather at comcast.net Mon Dec 10 07:47:22 2012 From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:47:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2><43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: Hello, I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has tools which press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a mark, as with a stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some tactile stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller shapes to highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could call them and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, and also ask if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over $150 so it probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able to tell you that as well. I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. Warmly, Heather -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hi, I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a tactile kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive it is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for different things. Hope this helps, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you > want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. > I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim > to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be > simple and fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment > with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of > different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of > Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small > piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded > action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, > you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under > the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You > could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for > example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I > had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, > is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under > the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, > holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the > stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the > spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop it > from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of > neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also > experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American > Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers > on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you > want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping > the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do > with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off > on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after > a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me > know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 17:37:47 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:37:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: In my experience, puff paint isn't always the best. First, it can take a long time to dry, as others have said. Second, if you were to put it in a book and then close the book, the paint would dry and stick your pages together. Patrick On 12/10/12, Heather Field wrote: > Hello, > I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has tools which > press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a mark, as with a > > stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some tactile > stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller shapes to > highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could call them > and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, and also ask > > if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over $150 so it > probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able to tell you > that as well. > > I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. > Warmly, > Heather > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hi, > I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a tactile > kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for > making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive > it > is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for > different things. > Hope this helps, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > >> Hello Brandon, >> There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you >> want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've described. >> >> I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no claim >> >> to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be >> simple and fast for you to use on the fly. >> >> My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any >> local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment >> with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same craft >> >> department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of >> different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of >> Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small >> piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded >> action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, >> you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under >> the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You >> could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for >> example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I >> had. >> >> A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, >> is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under >> the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you positioned, >> >> holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the >> stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the >> spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop it >> >> from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of >> neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also >> experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American >> Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers >> on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you >> want to mark. >> >> I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, it >> >> would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I agree >> >> with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to >> streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that does >> >> an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print >> readers. >> I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that a >> >> combination of both is your final answer. >> Warmly, >> Heather field >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Hello, >> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >> the >> Braille readable? >> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >> with >> my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another >> device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off >> on >> the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after >> >> a >> while). >> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >> know! >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 10 18:26:12 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:26:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Accessibility v2.0 is now available! Message-ID: > >Mobile Accessibility v2.0 is now available! > > >Mobile Accessibility v2.0 is now available! > > > > > >Major upgrade which introduces support for >tablet devices, Android Jelly Bean, two new applications and much more! > > > >Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, December 10th, 2012 > >Code Factory has once again responded to the >wishes of its users in the latest v2.0 of Mobile >Accessibility. This major release is the first >to support Android tablets as well as new >devices powered by the latest Android Jelly Bean operating system. > >“Since the release of v1.0 of Mobile >Accessibility, many users have been asking when >we would provide support for tablets,” explains >Eduard Sánchez, CEO at Code Factory. “We’re >proud to extend support to Android tablets in >v2.0, as well as support the latest Android >phones, allowing users to take full advantage of >the latest mainstream technologies available on the market.” > >Jelly Bean is not only the fastest and smoothest >version of Android, but it also includes major >accessibility improvements. Code Factory spotted >this opportunity to provide an improved user >experience and v2.0 includes a new set of >gestures to facilitate touch screen navigation. > >All users of Mobile Accessibility will be able >to take advantage of our new Notes and Explorer >apps, providing a fully accessible way to read >and write notes and to explore files on the >phone. In addition, all of our applications are >now fully accessible with TalkBack. > >High quality Braille support has always been one >of our main priorities at Code Factory. The >Braille support in Mobile Accessibility has been >refreshed with improved Braille connection, >support for new Braille displays, improved text >panning, and various other enhancements. > >Product Highlights: >• Support for tablet devices powered by Android. >• Support for Jelly Bean (Android 4.1) mobile devices. >• Two new applications: Notes and Explorer. >• All applications are now fully compatible with Talkback. >• Support for multiple-contact SMS messages. >• Support for writing long SMS messages (more than 160 characters). >• File download using the web browser is now supported. >• Braille: Support for Seika Braille displays. >• Braille: Support for cursor routing keys. >• Braille: Enhanced Braille panning. > >For detailed information on what’s new in Mobile >Accessibility v2.0 check >http://www.codefactory.es/MA/en/MA_manual_en.html#_Toc341383273 > > >For more information on Mobile Accessibility >v2.0, check the user manual which is available at From jeanine.lineback at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 18:34:21 2012 From: jeanine.lineback at gmail.com (Jeanine Lineback) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:34:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The CISCO Academy for the Vision Impaired Presents CAVI Cast - Vocational Rehabilitation for the blind in the United States Presenters: Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder & Jeanine K. Lineback Message-ID: The CISCO Academy for the Vision Impaired Presents CAVI Cast - Vocational Rehabilitation for the blind in the United States Presenters: Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder & Jeanine K. Lineback When: Sunday, December 16, 2012 at 8:00 pm eastern Please check the time for your time zone by going to: http://www.timeanddate.com/ Where: Online - tt.cucat.org We will be using the free conferencing system, TeamTalk. The TeamTalk software can be downloaded from http://www.bearware.dk/index.php?section=products&pageid=tt4download#hdrmenu A guide for setting up and configuring TeamTalk for tt.cucat.org can be found at http://www.cucat.org/wiki/index.php?n=Main.SettingUpTeamtalk The use of a headset is recommended. This is a free online presentation. We encourage participation from persons in other countries as well as those from the U.S. Topics to be discussed include: · The history of the rehabilitation system · Structure and legislation of the rehabilitation system · Getting the most out of your rehabilitation · Your Rights and responsibilities as a client · Take aways and lessons from the U.S. rehabilitation system · Rehabilitation models in other countries · Discussion & questions About the Presenters Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder has a long and distinguished career in service to the blind. This year, at the Eighth General Assembly of the World Blind Union (WBU), Dr. Schroeder was elected first vice president of theWBU. He was appointed as the commissioner of the Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA) within the U.S. Department of Education, under President Bill Clinton. Dr. Schroeder has held the office of the first vice president of the National Federation of the Blind since 2006. He served as the first executive director of the New Mexico Commission for the Blind. He now works as a research professor specializing in leadership and public policy in vocational rehabilitation, at San Diego State University and also serves as president of the Virginia affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind. You can read more about Dr. Fredric Schroeder at https://nfb.org/fredric-schroeder. Jeanine K. Lineback has dedicated more than twenty years to service of the blind. In 2012, she was elected as treasurer of the Assistive Technology Trainers Division of the National Federation of the Blind and Chairperson of the Technology Committee of the Texas affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind. Her career began in 1991 as an adaptive technology trainer for the University of Texas at Austin. In the summer of 1991, she accepted a position with the Colorado Center for the Blind, where she became the Technology Coordinator. She moved into private industry in 1997 providing assistive technology training and consulting services. Ms. Lineback was employed in 2008, as a Technology and Career Guidance instructor at the Criss Cole Rehabilitation Center. Currently, she runs her own business, Lineback Technology Solutions, providing assistive technology training and consulting services and also serves as Second Vice President of the Austin affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind of Texas. You can read more about Jeanine Lineback at http://www.linkedin.com/in/jlineback. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 12-16-12 Announcement The CISCO Academy Presents the rehab system in the US.docx Type: application/msword Size: 18124 bytes Desc: not available URL: From herrinar at muohio.edu Mon Dec 10 19:54:58 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:54:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> <43254056419F4926A40782F7AA31BE51@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: Hello Brandon, I'm late to this topic, so it may be irrelevant, and if you have found something that works, please do share with us, as someone else may need the same answer someday. Anyway, the thing that keeps popping into my head is to place some kind of bump dot or tactile dot-it wouldn't matter what kind you used, as long as you were able to tell what meant what-in the margin of the page. So for example, to stick the dot to the page, you would put it just before the line where you would need to do the unexpected action. One shape of dot or size would mean one thing, and another would mean something else. The reason I suggest this is that once they are stuck to a page, they shouldn't just fall off, and while they might add some thickness to the sheets you're using, they wouldn't necessarily be pressing on specific braille dots, changing the meaning of what you were reading. HTH, Amber On 12/10/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > In my experience, puff paint isn't always the best. First, it can take > a long time to dry, as others have said. Second, if you were to put it > in a book and then close the book, the paint would dry and stick your > pages together. > Patrick > > On 12/10/12, Heather Field wrote: >> Hello, >> I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has tools >> which >> press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a mark, as with >> a >> >> stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some tactile >> stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller shapes to >> highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could call them >> and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, and also >> ask >> >> if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over $150 so it >> probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able to tell >> you >> that as well. >> >> I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. >> Warmly, >> Heather >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Misty Dawn Bradley >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Hi, >> I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a >> tactile >> kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for >> making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive >> it >> is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for >> different things. >> Hope this helps, >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Heather Field" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> >>> Hello Brandon, >>> There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do what you >>> want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've >>> described. >>> >>> I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I make no >>> claim >>> >>> to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that will be >>> simple and fast for you to use on the fly. >>> >>> My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some from any >>> local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could experiment >>> with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the same >>> craft >>> >>> department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments of >>> different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized pieces of >>> Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a very small >>> piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a reminded >>> action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or soft tone, >>> you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran horizontally under >>> the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for louder. You >>> could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or back for >>> example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the fly" idea I >>> had. >>> >>> A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal flexibility idea, >>> is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines from under >>> the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you >>> positioned, >>> >>> holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned the >>> stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper to the >>> spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you could stop >>> it >>> >>> from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square of >>> neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could also >>> experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the American >>> Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your fingers >>> on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the braille you >>> want to mark. >>> >>> I believe that you could get more than competent with these techniques, >>> it >>> >>> would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your part. I >>> agree >>> >>> with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need to >>> streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place that >>> does >>> >>> an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for print >>> readers. >>> I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might find that >>> a >>> >>> combination of both is your final answer. >>> Warmly, >>> Heather field >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? >>> Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping >>> the >>> Braille readable? >>> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do >>> with >>> my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in >>> another >>> device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off >>> on >>> the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots >>> after >>> >>> a >>> while). >>> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me >>> know! >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 20:04:07 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:04:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Message-ID: <50c6405c.86e1440a.4c91.ffffe3e8@mx.google.com> Hello all, I am wondering if you know of any sites similar to the zonebbs.com and that are good with the BrailleNote. i already know about facebook and twitter.-thanks. I can't go on the zone because they keep disabling me. Thanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herrin, Amber" wrote: In my experience, puff paint isn't always the best. First, it can take a long time to dry, as others have said. Second, if you were to put it in a book and then close the book, the paint would dry and stick your pages together. Patrick On 12/10/12, Heather Field wrote: Hello, I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has tools which press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a mark, as with a stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some tactile stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller shapes to highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could call them and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, and also ask if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over $150 so it probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able to tell you that as well. I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. Warmly, Heather -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hi, I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a tactile kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive it is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for different things. Hope this helps, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Field" Fill out the MeetUp Survey Today! Help us create an awesome app that will assist you with meeting up with friends. A research team at the University of Washington is investigating how useful an app will be. This app is called MeetUp, and it will allow 2 people to leave different places and to meet up in a location between both of them. This app will use GPS technology and update in realtime so that the route is continuously efficient. We are interested in blind and sighted users in completing a simple, secure, and confidential online survey about this app that will take only 10 to 15 minutes. Participants must be at least 18 years old and proficient with smart phones. Go to https://catalyst.uw.edu/webq/survey/narakim/183043 to fill out the survey now! The last page includes an opportunity to enter a drawing for some Amazon gift cards. Thank you, and please direct any questions about our research to Professor Richard Ladner, ladner at cs.washington.edu, or to my work email at bennec3 at uw.edu. -- Cindy Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 21:16:55 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:16:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Message-ID: <50c65166.012f650a.5924.ffffc246@mx.google.com> Brandon, do you have a slate and stylus? Because if so, you can use your stylus as a sort of braille highlighter, putting a dot before the thing you want to mark. ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Molloy wrote: Hello, I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has tools which press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a mark, as with a stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some tactile stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller shapes to highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could call them and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, and also ask if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over $150 so it probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able to tell you that as well. I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. Warmly, Heather -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hi, I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a tactile kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive it is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for different things. Hope this helps, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Field" Hello, I'm just wondering if you know of any sites like the zonebbs that work with the BrailleNote. They kep disabling my accounts on the zone. Thanks in advance, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: Hello, I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has tools which press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a mark, as with a stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some tactile stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller shapes to highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could call them and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, and also ask if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over $150 so it probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able to tell you that as well. I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. Warmly, Heather -----Original Message----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hi, I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also carries a tactile kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different tools for making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how expensive it is. It might work though, because you could have different symbols for different things. Hope this helps, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Field" References: <50c65209.4b53440a.2d33.fffff1ac@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sarah, I do not mean to be rude, but I would like to suggest that if you have not heard from anyone thus far, you probably will not hear from anyone about this particular topic. You have sent several messages asking the same exact question over a very short period of time. If you continue to do this, I am thinking you might get taken off the list or reprimanded for posting so much about the same topic. I personally do not have the answer to your question, as I do not spend the majority of my time talking on sites like that. If someone wishes to answer the question, though, they will know you have asked the question several times and will do so. I apologize if you think this message has been rude, but trust me when I say I have worded this much nicer than some others would have. Why don't you try doing google searches or join some yahoo or google chat lists dedicated to a particular topic of interest or hobby that you enjoy? Best, Amber On 12/10/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello, I'm just wondering if you know of any sites like the > zonebbs that work with the BrailleNote. They kep disabling my > accounts on the zone. > > Thanks in advance, > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:16:55 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Brandon, do you have a slate and stylus? Because if so, you can > use your stylus as a sort of braille highlighter, putting a dot > before the thing you want to mark. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick Molloy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:37:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > In my experience, puff paint isn't always the best. First, it > can > take > a long time to dry, as others have said. Second, if you were to > put it > in a book and then close the book, the paint would dry and stick > your > pages together. > Patrick > > On 12/10/12, Heather Field wrote: > Hello, > I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has > tools which > press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a > mark, as with a > > stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some > tactile > stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller > shapes to > highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could > call them > and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, > and also ask > > if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over > $150 so it > probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able > to tell you > that as well. > > I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. > Warmly, > Heather > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hi, > I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also > carries a tactile > kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different > tools for > making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how > expensive > it > is. It might work though, because you could have different > symbols for > different things. > Hope this helps, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do > what you > want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've > described. > > I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I > make > no claim > > to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that > will be > simple and fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some > from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could > experiment > with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the > same craft > > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments > of > different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized > pieces of > Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a > very small > piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a > reminded > action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or > soft tone, > you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran > horizontally under > the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for > louder. You > could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or > back for > example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the > fly" > idea I > had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal > flexibility idea, > is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines > from under > the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you > positioned, > > holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned > the > stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper > to the > spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you > could stop it > > from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square > of > neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could > also > experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the > American > Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your > fingers > on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the > braille you > want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these > techniques, it > > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your > part. I agree > > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need > to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place > that does > > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for > print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might > find that a > > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been > invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still > keeping > the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling > me to do > with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes > in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can > fall off > on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of > dots after > > a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please > let me > know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4 > 0comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4 > 0comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 22:16:28 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:16:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NIMAC? Message-ID: <50c65f5b.e684ec0a.117e.ffffec3f@mx.google.com> Dear NABS List, Has anyone gotten any of their textbooks from the NIMAC (National Instructional Materials Center?) I'm trying to get one of my textbooks in any accessible format, and I found it on the NIMAC website. Can I download the book directly from there, or do I have to request it for Bookshare and then download it? Any help would be very much appreciated. Best wishes, Sophie From dsykora29 at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 23:30:57 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:30:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] symbols for chemistry Message-ID: Hello everyone, For my chemistry class, I am having to write certain symbols such as arrows and Greek letters. Does anyone know how this would be possible on a computer? Any help would be appreciated. Danielle From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 00:09:32 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:09:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sites like the zonebbs In-Reply-To: References: <50c65209.4b53440a.2d33.fffff1ac@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Might I also add that usually, when you get kicked off the zone, it's not done for no reason? You might want to consider it a lost cause. But, to answer your main question, I don't know of any other sites like it. There's Klango, but that's going to be shut down in a month or so, so I wouldn't bother. The suggestion to join other mailing lists is a good one, though. Try going to www.whitestick.co.uk and browsing the mailing lists for the blind section. there are some good ones, and not all of them are UK-based, although the ones that are still allow members that aren't in the UK to subscribe. On 12/10/12, Herrin, Amber wrote: > Sarah, > > I do not mean to be rude, but I would like to suggest that if you have > not heard from anyone thus far, you probably will not hear from anyone > about this particular topic. You have sent several messages asking > the same exact question over a very short period of time. If you > continue to do this, I am thinking you might get taken off the list or > reprimanded for posting so much about the same topic. I personally do > not have the answer to your question, as I do not spend the majority > of my time talking on sites like that. If someone wishes to answer > the question, though, they will know you have asked the question > several times and will do so. > > I apologize if you think this message has been rude, but trust me when > I say I have worded this much nicer than some others would have. > > Why don't you try doing google searches or join some yahoo or google > chat lists dedicated to a particular topic of interest or hobby that > you enjoy? > > Best, > > Amber > > On 12/10/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello, I'm just wondering if you know of any sites like the >> zonebbs that work with the BrailleNote. They kep disabling my >> accounts on the zone. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sophie Trist > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Date sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:16:55 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Brandon, do you have a slate and stylus? Because if so, you can >> use your stylus as a sort of braille highlighter, putting a dot >> before the thing you want to mark. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Patrick Molloy > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:37:47 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> In my experience, puff paint isn't always the best. First, it >> can >> take >> a long time to dry, as others have said. Second, if you were to >> put it >> in a book and then close the book, the paint would dry and stick >> your >> pages together. >> Patrick >> >> On 12/10/12, Heather Field wrote: >> Hello, >> I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has >> tools which >> press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a >> mark, as with a >> >> stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some >> tactile >> stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller >> shapes to >> highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could >> call them >> and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, >> and also ask >> >> if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over >> $150 so it >> probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able >> to tell you >> that as well. >> >> I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. >> Warmly, >> Heather >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Misty Dawn Bradley >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Hi, >> I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also >> carries a tactile >> kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different >> tools for >> making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how >> expensive >> it >> is. It might work though, because you could have different >> symbols for >> different things. >> Hope this helps, >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Heather Field" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> >> Hello Brandon, >> There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do >> what you >> want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've >> described. >> >> I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I >> make >> no claim >> >> to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that >> will be >> simple and fast for you to use on the fly. >> >> My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some >> from any >> local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could >> experiment >> with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the >> same craft >> >> department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments >> of >> different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized >> pieces of >> Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a >> very small >> piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a >> reminded >> action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or >> soft tone, >> you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran >> horizontally under >> the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for >> louder. You >> could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or >> back for >> example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the >> fly" >> idea I >> had. >> >> A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal >> flexibility idea, >> is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines >> from under >> the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you >> positioned, >> >> holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned >> the >> stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper >> to the >> spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you >> could stop it >> >> from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square >> of >> neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could >> also >> experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the >> American >> Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your >> fingers >> on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the >> braille you >> want to mark. >> >> I believe that you could get more than competent with these >> techniques, it >> >> would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your >> part. I agree >> >> with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need >> to >> streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place >> that does >> >> an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for >> print >> readers. >> I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might >> find that a >> >> combination of both is your final answer. >> Warmly, >> Heather field >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? >> >> Hello, >> I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been >> invented yet? >> Something that could change the texture of the page while still >> keeping >> the >> Braille readable? >> This has been something that all my teachers have been telling >> me to do >> with >> my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes >> in another >> device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can >> fall off >> on >> the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of >> dots after >> >> a >> while). >> So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please >> let me >> know! >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4 >> 0comcast.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4 >> 0comcast.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Amber R. Herrin > > e: herrinar at muohio.edu > P: (513) 593-5855 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 00:11:00 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:11:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] symbols for chemistry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Danielle, There are ways to create arrows and Greek letters in Microsoft Word, but JAWS usually doesn't read them properly. When doing homework it is important that you can read your own homework assignments to use them for review. What I have done for years (since high school) has been to make up my own symbols. For example, instead of inserting the Greek letter theta, I literally write out the word "theta". I have done this for multiple biology, chemistry, math and physics classes and never once had a teacher complain that I wasn't using the real symbols. If you have a Braille notetaker you may be able to do some fancy things with LATX so that the Greek letters show up in proper Nemeth on your Braille display. If you are interested in pursuing this option further, I suggest joining the BlindMath list and asking there. Best of luck, Arielle On 12/10/12, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hello everyone, > For my chemistry class, I am having to write certain symbols such as > arrows and Greek letters. Does anyone know how this would be possible > on a computer? Any help would be appreciated. > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dsykora29 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 00:18:48 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:18:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NIMAC? In-Reply-To: <50c65f5b.e684ec0a.117e.ffffec3f@mx.google.com> References: <50c65f5b.e684ec0a.117e.ffffec3f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, I believe you have to request it from bookshare. I have done this before but I have not been able to download a nimac book, even from bookshare, with my student acount. Good luck, Danielle On 12/10/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > Dear NABS List, > > Has anyone gotten any of their textbooks from the NIMAC (National > Instructional Materials Center?) I'm trying to get one of my > textbooks in any accessible format, and I found it on the NIMAC > website. Can I download the book directly from there, or do I > have to request it for Bookshare and then download it? Any help > would be very much appreciated. > > Best wishes, > Sophie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 00:38:55 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:38:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sites like the zonebbs In-Reply-To: References: <50c65209.4b53440a.2d33.fffff1ac@mx.google.com> Message-ID: That's true; if its not answered, we don't likely know. That, or we are busy studying for finals. I do not know what the website even is. However, another resource for checking about computers and accessibility is Access world put out by american foundation for the blind, AFB. Go to www.afb.org and click on access world, the free technology magazine and then search on what you need to. Hth, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sites like the zonebbs Sarah, I do not mean to be rude, but I would like to suggest that if you have not heard from anyone thus far, you probably will not hear from anyone about this particular topic. You have sent several messages asking the same exact question over a very short period of time. If you continue to do this, I am thinking you might get taken off the list or reprimanded for posting so much about the same topic. I personally do not have the answer to your question, as I do not spend the majority of my time talking on sites like that. If someone wishes to answer the question, though, they will know you have asked the question several times and will do so. I apologize if you think this message has been rude, but trust me when I say I have worded this much nicer than some others would have. Why don't you try doing google searches or join some yahoo or google chat lists dedicated to a particular topic of interest or hobby that you enjoy? Best, Amber On 12/10/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello, I'm just wondering if you know of any sites like the > zonebbs that work with the BrailleNote. They kep disabling my > accounts on the zone. > > Thanks in advance, > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:16:55 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Brandon, do you have a slate and stylus? Because if so, you can > use your stylus as a sort of braille highlighter, putting a dot > before the thing you want to mark. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick Molloy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:37:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > In my experience, puff paint isn't always the best. First, it > can > take > a long time to dry, as others have said. Second, if you were to > put it > in a book and then close the book, the paint would dry and stick > your > pages together. > Patrick > > On 12/10/12, Heather Field wrote: > Hello, > I'm not sure about this, but I believe that the kit mostly has > tools which > press from the opposite side of the page on which you want a > mark, as with a > > stylus or a tracing wheel.. However, I do think APH sells some > tactile > stickers. Perhaps you could buy them and cut them into smaller > shapes to > highlight your music. They're very helpful so perhaps you could > call them > and ask someone to describe what stickers they have available, > and also ask > > if they have any suggestions. I think the graphics kit is over > $150 so it > probably a lot more than you can use. I'm sure they'll be able > to tell you > that as well. > > I hope we can find the solution, this is very important. > Warmly, > Heather > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hi, > I believe that American Printing House for the Blind also > carries a tactile > kit that makes different symbols and textures and has different > tools for > making tactile markings and diagrams, although I don't know how > expensive > it > is. It might work though, because you could have different > symbols for > different things. > Hope this helps, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > > Hello Brandon, > There isn't any actual "tool", to my knowledge, that will do > what you > want. However, I can fully appreciate the need for what you've > described. > > I have a couple of suggestions for you to try. Obviously, I > make > no claim > > to their success but I'm just trying to think of something that > will be > simple and fast for you to use on the fly. > > My immediate first thought was Wikki sticks. You could get some > from any > local store with a craft or toy department. Then, you could > experiment > with cutting them into different lengths. You could buy, in the > same craft > > department, a small, flat box that is divided into compartments > of > different sizes. Then, you could separate the different sized > pieces of > Wikki sticks into their sections. Perhaps, you could place a > very small > piece vertically in the space before the phrase that requires a > reminded > action. If there was a phrase that required an extra loud or > soft tone, > you could have a longer piece of Wikki stick that ran > horizontally under > the whole phrase; it could go below for softer and above for > louder. You > could work out other positions, sloping diagonally forward or > back for > example, for other reminders. This is the quickest, "on the > fly" > idea I > had. > > A slightly less elegant, slower, but possibly of equal > flexibility idea, > is to simply take a stylus with you and poke up dots or lines > from under > the paper. You could have a one line dymo tape slate which you > positioned, > > holes down, roughly over the line under which you had positioned > the > stylus. Thus, when you poked the stylus up from under the paper > to the > spot where you had positioned the point to come through, you > could stop it > > from making a hole by putting the slate over it. A small square > of > neoprene or rubber material would work just as well. You could > also > experiment with using a small tracing wheel, available from the > American > Printing house, and using it under the paper while you kept your > fingers > on the braille facing up and made a line under or over the > braille you > want to mark. > > I believe that you could get more than competent with these > techniques, it > > would only take a bit of experimenting and practise on your > part. I agree > > with you that, at this level of performance, you really do need > to > streamline the process and get a set of tactile marking in place > that does > > an equivalent job for a tactile reader that highlighters do for > print > readers. > I hope one of these ideas works for you. Who knows, you might > find that a > > combination of both is your final answer. > Warmly, > Heather field > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? > > Hello, > I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been > invented yet? > Something that could change the texture of the page while still > keeping > the > Braille readable? > This has been something that all my teachers have been telling > me to do > with > my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes > in another > device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can > fall off > on > the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of > dots after > > a > while). > So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please > let me > know! > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4 > 0comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4 > 0comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 01:15:02 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:15:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <59E66BA9F7FF4735B04E6320A8191CCC@OwnerPC> Brandon, I wish there was a braille highlighter too. What I suggest is use textured dots from APH or ILA. Have one type of dot to start your highlight and another to finish. another idea is use a piece of thin tape such as graphic art tape sold at office supply stores. If your fingers can feel the difference other ideas are: 1. use a crayon under the text you want to highlight. 2. use a pencil and you can feel the indents of the pencil 3. use a ball point pin under the text. 4. making raised lines with the raised line kit might work if you can afford it. hth, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 12:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 02:07:47 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:07:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: References: <0305821C8FBD4052B77B6B5FE482443C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <5EFDF93A31334CAB80E6B22292730BC0@OwnerPC> Joshua, You haven't heard of it, since it does not exist. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 12:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Never heard of them. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello, I am wondering if any kind of Braille highlighter has been invented yet? Something that could change the texture of the page while still keeping the Braille readable? This has been something that all my teachers have been telling me to do with my Braille books and music, as of now it is either write notes in another device that may crash, or put not really accurate dots that can fall off on the spot I want to mark. (Not to menschen that becomes a lot of dots after a while). So if anyone has ever encountered a Braille highlighter please let me know! Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 02:47:06 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:47:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? In-Reply-To: <50c54177.eaea440a.1f27.4e65@mx.google.com> References: <50c54177.eaea440a.1f27.4e65@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <66BAD9A866E94D32AC5D3D8B454A4143@OwnerPC> please change subject lines if you ask something new! -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Highlighters? Hello everyone, I'll ask this again since I forgot to change the subject line. Does anyone know of any good sites like zonebbs.com that have message boards and stuff that work on the BrailleNote? I got baned from the zone in 2010 and they won't let me come back. Thanks in advance, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" Smile of the day Wife texts husband on a cold winter morning: "Windows frozen." Husband texts back: "Pour some lukewarm water over it." Wife texts back 5 minutes later: "Computer completely dead now." -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 16:23:12 2012 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:23:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] symbols for chemistry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Just to supplement what Arielle said, I am a zoology major in college at the moment and have taken three semesters of chemistry and biology courses. I also write out the Greek letters. For reaction arrows, I simply write yields or equilibrium with, depending on the type of reaction. Feel free to email me off list if you have other questions about science courses. I would be more than happy to help. Aleeha dudley On Dec 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Danielle, > There are ways to create arrows and Greek letters in Microsoft Word, > but JAWS usually doesn't read them properly. When doing homework it > is important that you can read your own homework assignments to use > them for review. What I have done for years (since high school) has > been to make up my own symbols. For example, instead of inserting the > Greek letter theta, I literally write out the word "theta". I have > done this for multiple biology, chemistry, math and physics classes > and never once had a teacher complain that I wasn't using the real > symbols. > If you have a Braille notetaker you may be able to do some fancy > things with LATX so that the Greek letters show up in proper Nemeth on > your Braille display. If you are interested in pursuing this option > further, I suggest joining the BlindMath list and asking there. > Best of luck, > Arielle > > On 12/10/12, Danielle Sykora wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> For my chemistry class, I am having to write certain symbols such as >> arrows and Greek letters. Does anyone know how this would be possible >> on a computer? Any help would be appreciated. >> Danielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 19:09:12 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:09:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos Message-ID: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> Hi all, Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair Lady, and the harry potter movies described. I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll take that if I can burn it to a dvd. I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not independently turn it on as it requires a menu. Thanks for any tips. Ashley From valandkayla at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 19:13:55 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:13:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2A015D54-A4D1-4B16-8312-98196EC51745@gmail.com> Hello, Register on Blindmicemart.com you'll have to enter credit card/contact info, but i think that's only done so you don't have to enter it again, if you want to buy something from there. I've registered, and they've never charged me. after you've done that, you'll see a movie vault that you'll want to check out. :) Hope this helps. On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi all, > Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair Lady, and the harry potter movies described. > I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll take that if I can burn it to a dvd. > I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? > It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not independently turn it on as it requires a menu. > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 19:17:43 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:17:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <2A015D54-A4D1-4B16-8312-98196EC51745@gmail.com> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <2A015D54-A4D1-4B16-8312-98196EC51745@gmail.com> Message-ID: <016D88E8EDAE4E92AF27EFC895D6F471@OwnerPC> thanks can you burn the dvds to a dvd so it doesn't have to be played on a pc? Are all movies free there? -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos Hello, Register on Blindmicemart.com you'll have to enter credit card/contact info, but i think that's only done so you don't have to enter it again, if you want to buy something from there. I've registered, and they've never charged me. after you've done that, you'll see a movie vault that you'll want to check out. :) Hope this helps. On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi all, > Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair > Lady, and the harry potter movies described. > I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll > take that if I can burn it to a dvd. > I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but > how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? > It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not > independently turn it on as it requires a menu. > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 19:23:34 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:23:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> Actually the described movies come in MP3. :( Not my favorite file type, as it's not technically a movie file, but an audio file. However I guess they're under the assumption that no sighted person is going to watch a described movie with you. On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair Lady, and the harry potter movies described. > I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll take that if I can burn it to a dvd. > I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? > It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not independently turn it on as it requires a menu. > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 19:45:26 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:45:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> It might be a good idea for them to give the user 2 options for downloading movies: a video file such as WMV and an audio-only file such as MP3. Ashley, try Blind Mice Movie Vault. Not sure of the URL, but I think it's blindmicemovievault.com. If you want the movies as standard DVD's instead of an electronic format, try DVS. Googling "Descriptive Video Service" should give you the right Web site. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 11, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Actually the described movies come in MP3. :( > Not my favorite file type, as it's not technically a movie file, but an audio file. However I guess they're under the assumption that no sighted person is going to watch a described movie with you. > On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair Lady, and the harry potter movies described. >> I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll take that if I can burn it to a dvd. >> I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? >> It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not independently turn it on as it requires a menu. >> Thanks for any tips. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 19:52:35 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:52:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <38678243-725D-41A7-82A5-DD136885C7C8@gmail.com> That's what we were talking about. blind mice movie vault only has their's in MP3, and I agree with the double option. However, offering movies in .avi or .m4v etc, could infringe on copyright laws. You'd think that having a audio version of a movie would do the same, since technically that's how we "watch" a movie anyway, but I guess it's a loophole. :) On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:45 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > It might be a good idea for them to give the user 2 options for > downloading movies: a video file such as WMV and an audio-only file > such as MP3. Ashley, try Blind Mice Movie Vault. Not sure of the URL, > but I think it's blindmicemovievault.com. If you want the movies as > standard DVD's instead of an electronic format, try DVS. Googling > "Descriptive Video Service" should give you the right Web site. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > >> Actually the described movies come in MP3. :( >> Not my favorite file type, as it's not technically a movie file, but an audio file. However I guess they're under the assumption that no sighted person is going to watch a described movie with you. >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair Lady, and the harry potter movies described. >>> I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll take that if I can burn it to a dvd. >>> I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? >>> It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not independently turn it on as it requires a menu. >>> Thanks for any tips. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 20:26:00 2012 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <38678243-725D-41A7-82A5-DD136885C7C8@gmail.com> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> <38678243-725D-41A7-82A5-DD136885C7C8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all: There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, and these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this service's archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films (this excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' unfortunately) produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection of dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. They are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual finds it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD menu. It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As long as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their DVD remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive films would net you some concrete information regarding how far back you can expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many films that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing as the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original might not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's a very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever attempted to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they are a bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but that's a small price to pay, imho. Courtney From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 20:31:47 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:31:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5751510254314A928502F7FEF736A9A0@OwnerPC> yikes, you mean they don't show you the film too. gee. I have some vision so I want to see the video as I see the movie. I didn't know these were only mp3s. -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos Actually the described movies come in MP3. :( Not my favorite file type, as it's not technically a movie file, but an audio file. However I guess they're under the assumption that no sighted person is going to watch a described movie with you. On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair > Lady, and the harry potter movies described. > I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll > take that if I can burn it to a dvd. > I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but > how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? > It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not > independently turn it on as it requires a menu. > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 20:33:05 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:33:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC><7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Chris, Vallerie just said blind mice megamall only has mp3s. I wish there was a video file too. -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos It might be a good idea for them to give the user 2 options for downloading movies: a video file such as WMV and an audio-only file such as MP3. Ashley, try Blind Mice Movie Vault. Not sure of the URL, but I think it's blindmicemovievault.com. If you want the movies as standard DVD's instead of an electronic format, try DVS. Googling "Descriptive Video Service" should give you the right Web site. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 11, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Actually the described movies come in MP3. :( > Not my favorite file type, as it's not technically a movie file, but an > audio file. However I guess they're under the assumption that no sighted > person is going to watch a described movie with you. > On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Where do I find described videos? I want the Home alone movies, My fair >> Lady, and the harry potter movies described. >> I’d prefer the actual dvd not a download, but if there is downloads, I’ll >> take that if I can burn it to a dvd. >> I thought I read somewhere that you just by them from retail outlets, but >> how do you know if its described? Will it say on the package? >> It seems to me that even if a dvd was described, we could not >> independently turn it on as it requires a menu. >> Thanks for any tips. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 21:24:07 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:24:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want Message-ID: <50c7a49d.2581440a.04b8.ffff86ac@mx.google.com> Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email address? Thanks! Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtney Stover References: <50c7a49d.2581440a.04b8.ffff86ac@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53150987155B4271AF7D6B100A4B96FE@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Amazon should have it. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email address? Thanks! Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtney Stover I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> <38678243-725D-41A7-82A5-DD136885C7C8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50C7ADD4.4090403@gmail.com> Only thing beware of since the're originally from the UK, don't be surprised if you get the DVD and it won't play because of not being of the US region! Also on the DVD control, on some, you have an Audio button; you press the audio button on some DVD and the language changes, thus I'd think that's how one can switch on/off the DVS? El 11/12/2012 02:26 p.m., Courtney Stover escribió: > Hi all: > > There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, and > these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. > > I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this service's > archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted > Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter > movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. > > A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films (this > excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' unfortunately) > produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection of > dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. They > are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. > > The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual finds > it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD menu. > It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As long > as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their DVD > remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. > > I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive films > would net you some concrete information regarding how far back you can > expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many films > that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing as > the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original might > not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's a > very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever attempted > to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they are a > bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but that's a > small price to pay, imho. > Courtney > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 22:23:39 2012 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:23:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] described videos In-Reply-To: <50C7ADD4.4090403@gmail.com> References: <29DE89A3DE3846EE8C4CB86C24A5574B@OwnerPC> <7B911E66-8C06-4080-9153-5EED257ADC57@gmail.com> <-6934854247046752645@unknownmsgid> <38678243-725D-41A7-82A5-DD136885C7C8@gmail.com> <50C7ADD4.4090403@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gerardo, Thank you so much for mentioning the DVD player issue; I've been extremely busy today and rather scattered because of it. As far as I'm aware, films from different countries are given "region" designations. From a quick Google search, I found that the Region Code for the UK is 2, while the Region Code for the US is 1. There are a plethora of DVD players which can play both regions, particularly considering the rising popularity of British telivision within America. Amazon should net you a number of results, and while it is a frustrating expense, it is so very worth it in the end, especially considering the lowering costs of these devices. Courtney From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 22:24:39 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want In-Reply-To: <50c7ac17.85ee440a.58fe.7f44@mx.google.com> References: <50c7ac17.85ee440a.58fe.7f44@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sara, You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more websites. If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer and a screen reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be helping you learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many free sites; youtube is one. You could also buy it from FYE probably. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <02AE8279AC6940A88B0FC1AD26B890C3@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, There is no excuse. You need one to be a fully functional and employable person in today's world. Is there anything we as Nabs Members can do if Sarah's Rehabilitation councilor won't get her a computer? One of life's essential needs? Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" Message-ID: <6C14BDA4CC7E49A8AAE1B473033E7893@ownerf49ceb395> Sarah, Net books are not that much money. Perhaps, the Lyon's club or rotary club, or elks club or whatnot can sponsor you for one. If all else fails, you can get a refurbished desktop for under $100. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me >one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Sara, > You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more websites. > If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer and a > screen > reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be helping > you > learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. > You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. > > I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. > That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many free > sites; > youtube is one. > You could also buy it from FYE probably. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:35:01 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > Amazon should have it. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > > I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides > mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine > Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download > it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into > 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, > could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email > address? Thanks! > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Stover To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos > > Hi all: > > There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, > and > these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. > > I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this > service's > archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted > Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter > movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. > > A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films > (this > excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' > unfortunately) > produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection > of > dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. > They > are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. > > The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual > finds > it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD > menu. > It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As > long > as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their > DVD > remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. > > I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive > films > would net you some concrete information regarding how far back > you can > expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many > films > that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing > as > the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original > might > not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's > a > very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever > attempted > to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they > are a > bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but > that's a > small price to pay, imho. > Courtney > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From jhud7789 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 22:55:35 2012 From: jhud7789 at gmail.com (Joseph Hudson) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:55:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want In-Reply-To: <02AE8279AC6940A88B0FC1AD26B890C3@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> <02AE8279AC6940A88B0FC1AD26B890C3@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: There are grants that help people like us On 12/11/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > There is no excuse. You need one to be a fully functional and employable > person in today's world. > Is there anything we as Nabs Members can do if Sarah's Rehabilitation > councilor won't get her a computer? One of life's essential needs? > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not > get me one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Sara, > You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more > websites. > If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer > and a screen > reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be > helping you > learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. > You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. > > I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. > That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many > free sites; > youtube is one. > You could also buy it from FYE probably. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:35:01 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > Amazon should have it. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > > I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides > mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine > Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download > it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into > 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, > could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email > address? Thanks! > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Stover To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos > > Hi all: > > There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, > and > these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. > > I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this > service's > archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted > Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter > movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. > > A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films > (this > excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' > unfortunately) > produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection > of > dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. > They > are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. > > The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual > finds > it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD > menu. > It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As > long > as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their > DVD > remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. > > I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive > films > would net you some concrete information regarding how far back > you can > expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many > films > that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing > as > the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original > might > not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's > a > very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever > attempted > to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they > are a > bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but > that's a > small price to pay, imho. > Courtney > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com > -- Joseph Hudson phone 2544661251 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 23:04:42 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:04:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want In-Reply-To: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <900F269FD2EE477D80B29D7785E93D8C@OwnerPC> Hi, I doubt you'll find something free. why not try some streaming audio site like rapsidy? You have to pay after a trial period though. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> <02AE8279AC6940A88B0FC1AD26B890C3@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi, I think we can only give moral support; Sara will have to advocate herself. One step is to write a letter to justify the need; if they still deny you, go to your state client assistance program. they assist clients in grievances like this. Anyway, as for the audio thing, I suggest streaming audio or youtube, although I doubt they work on a braille note. -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want Hello, There is no excuse. You need one to be a fully functional and employable person in today's world. Is there anything we as Nabs Members can do if Sarah's Rehabilitation councilor won't get her a computer? One of life's essential needs? Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> <6C14BDA4CC7E49A8AAE1B473033E7893@ownerf49ceb395> Message-ID: Elks just go's up to 18. On 12/11/12, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > Sarah, > > Net books are not that much money. Perhaps, the Lyon's club or rotary club, > > or elks club or whatnot can sponsor you for one. If all else fails, you can > > get a refurbished desktop for under $100. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > >>I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me >>one. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> Sara, >> You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more websites. >> If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer and a >> screen >> reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be helping >> you >> learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. >> You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. >> >> I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. >> That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many free >> sites; >> youtube is one. >> You could also buy it from FYE probably. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:35:01 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> Hello, >> Amazon should have it. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> Hello, >> >> I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides >> mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine >> Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download >> it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into >> 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, >> could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email >> address? Thanks! >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Courtney Stover > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos >> >> Hi all: >> >> There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, >> and >> these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. >> >> I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this >> service's >> archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted >> Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter >> movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. >> >> A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films >> (this >> excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' >> unfortunately) >> produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection >> of >> dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. >> They >> are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. >> >> The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual >> finds >> it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD >> menu. >> It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As >> long >> as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their >> DVD >> remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. >> >> I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive >> films >> would net you some concrete information regarding how far back >> you can >> expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many >> films >> that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing >> as >> the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original >> might >> not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's >> a >> very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever >> attempted >> to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they >> are a >> bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but >> that's a >> small price to pay, imho. >> Courtney >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com > -- Joseph Hudson phone 2544661251 From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 23:14:56 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:14:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want Message-ID: <50c7be96.89e1440a.1f93.090d@mx.google.com> I got the song. My brother got it for me from Amazon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <50c7be96.89e1440a.1f93.090d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: FYI to everyone: Amazon has a mobile site at www.amazon.com/access that is less cluttered and works much better with screen readers and smart phones. However, you can only buy music on CD from that site; you cannot download digital music and some other features, like the ability to cancel orders, are unavailable. Arielle On 12/11/12, Sarah wrote: > I got the song. My brother got it for me from Amazon. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:04:42 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hi, > I doubt you'll find something free. why not try some streaming > audio site > like rapsidy? > You have to pay after a trial period though. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not > get me one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Sara, > You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more > websites. > If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer > and a screen > reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be > helping you > learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. > You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. > > I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. > That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many > free sites; > youtube is one. > You could also buy it from FYE probably. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:35:01 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > Amazon should have it. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > > I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides > mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine > Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download > it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into > 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, > could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email > address? Thanks! > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Stover To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos > > Hi all: > > There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, > and > these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. > > I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this > service's > archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted > Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter > movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. > > A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films > (this > excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' > unfortunately) > produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection > of > dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. > They > are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. > > The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual > finds > it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD > menu. > It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As > long > as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their > DVD > remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. > > I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive > films > would net you some concrete information regarding how far back > you can > expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many > films > that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing > as > the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original > might > not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's > a > very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever > attempted > to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they > are a > bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but > that's a > small price to pay, imho. > Courtney > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 23:40:34 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:40:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? Message-ID: I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very interesting. What do you guys think? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: LILITH Finkler Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?" To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a series on "person first language". Lilith=========================================================================================== CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there are “people with disabilities.” No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that the disability rights movement is changing language to be more respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is through language.” The global movement to promote person-first language has been extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with autism. But some people, including members of several disability groups, aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered derogatory or pejorative in the first place. St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer is nothing short of ludicrous. “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first language (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives that describe them before they arrive at the noun” (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more years.” The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their language according to their audience so that focus remains on their message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ published online November 7, 2012Full Text ________________End of message________________ This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for Disability Studies at the University of Leeds (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). Enquiries about list administration should be sent to disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk Archives and tools are located at: www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. From mistydbradley at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 23:43:23 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:43:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <339980E932214450877FC011463C4A7B@acerd37f251f21> Hi Sarah, Did VR get the Braille Note for you? If so, then they may give you a hard time about getting a computer, because they will say that you already have sufficient equipment for school or what not. Also, a lot of VR offices will not buy both a notetaker and a computer. Perhaps, if you are in school, you can tell them that you are required to have a computer with Windows 7 on it. A lot of assignments in college classes, especially ones dealing with computers and technology, require you to do them on a Windows 7 computer. This is what happened to me, because I only had an XP, and my assignments for my technology class needed to be done on a computer with Windows 7 and Microsoft Office 2010, so this is a good thing to bring up with VR. Also, you could point out that a computer is an integral part of both going to school or getting a job and is important for being successful and independent. The Braille Note can be rather limiting for certain things, especially on the Internet, so maybe you can write down these points in a letter or write it down for yourself and discuss it with your VR counselor point by point. In your points, you can state the limitations of the Braille Note and reasons why you need a computer. If you have any textbooks or assignments that need to be done on the computer, you could also show your counselor the assignment or textbook as proof that you need the computer for school, or if you are working, perhaps you can get a letter from your employer stating that a computer is needed for your job. Also, if you are in college and receive a Pell grant, you can use money that you have left over after your tuition and books and anything else you need has been purchased with financial aid to purchase a computer. I did this this semester, because I had some money refunded to me and needed a Windows 7 computer, so that is what I used the extra money for. Of course, this depends on whether you are just going to community college like I am doing, or if you are going to a private or four-year university, because tuition rates tend to be lower for a community college, and public universities cost less than private universities generally. Hth, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me >one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Sara, > You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more websites. > If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer and a > screen > reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be helping > you > learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. > You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. > > I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. > That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many free > sites; > youtube is one. > You could also buy it from FYE probably. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:35:01 -0800 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > Amazon should have it. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > Hello, > > I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides > mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine > Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download > it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into > 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, > could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email > address? Thanks! > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Stover To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos > > Hi all: > > There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, > and > these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. > > I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this > service's > archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted > Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter > movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. > > A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films > (this > excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' > unfortunately) > produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection > of > dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. > They > are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. > > The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual > finds > it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD > menu. > It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As > long > as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their > DVD > remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. > > I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive > films > would net you some concrete information regarding how far back > you can > expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many > films > that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing > as > the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original > might > not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's > a > very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever > attempted > to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they > are a > bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but > that's a > small price to pay, imho. > Courtney > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 23:45:42 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:45:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want References: <50c7b453.e9c5440a.47ea.7a3a@mx.google.com> <6C14BDA4CC7E49A8AAE1B473033E7893@ownerf49ceb395> Message-ID: Hi, Another option is to get a netbook, desktop, or laptop computer on sale. I got my netbook for under $200 one time after Christmas when a lot of things went on sale. Hth, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > Sarah, > > Net books are not that much money. Perhaps, the Lyon's club or rotary > club, or elks club or whatnot can sponsor you for one. If all else fails, > you can get a refurbished desktop for under $100. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want > > >>I guess so. My rebab counselor is making up every excuse to not get me >>one. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:39 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> Sara, >> You need to learn a computer, it will allow you to go to more websites. >> If you are a student your vr office should purchase a computer and a >> screen >> reader. If you are a public school student, your TVI should be helping >> you >> learn pc skills. If they do not, shame on them. >> You can learn pc skills at a summer camp then. >> >> I've heard many websites don't work well on a braille note. >> That is since they have flash and frames. I cannot think of many free >> sites; >> youtube is one. >> You could also buy it from FYE probably. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> I can't access Amazon on the BrailleNote. Thanks anyway, >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:35:01 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> Hello, >> Amazon should have it. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want >> >> Hello, >> >> I was wondering if anyone knew of ayy free mp3 sites besides >> mpblecraid and mpblecskull. I'm trying to find a song by Celine >> Dion and Rather Kelly called I Am Your Angel but I can't download >> it anywhere because on mpblecskull you hffbe logged into >> 4share.com and I can't get that to work on the Bn. If easier, >> could someone please send me the song in mp3 format to my Email >> address? Thanks! >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Courtney Stover > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:26:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] described videos >> >> Hi all: >> >> There is another, far more reliable source for descriptive films, >> and >> these films come on DVDs, as Ashley originally requested. >> >> I'm not entirely sure on specifics in terms of how far this >> service's >> archives go back, so it may not have *everything* that you wanted >> Ashley, though I know it has at least the last three Harry Potter >> movies, and it's an invaluable resource for newer films. >> >> A law was passed in the United Kingdom, ensuring that all films >> (this >> excludes DVD releases of seasons of telivision series' >> unfortunately) >> produced after a certain year (and this is where my recollection >> of >> dates becomes hazy) were required to have DVS services included. >> They >> are standard DVDs, bought easily from Amazon.co.uk. >> >> The DVS can easily be turned on or off, if a sighted individual >> finds >> it intrusive. It is in the language options within the main DVD >> menu. >> It's iether the first or second option, so easily navigable. As >> long >> as a blind user memorized what steps were required through their >> DVD >> remote, it is possible to turn the service on or off. >> >> I would imagine that a quick Google search of UK descriptive >> films >> would net you some concrete information regarding how far back >> you can >> expect the description to be present. One final tidbit: Many >> films >> that are rereleases of older films also have description, seeing >> as >> the rerelease now falls under the law. So, while the original >> might >> not, if the rerelease falls within the timeline of the law, it's >> a >> very good garuntee that it will. All films that I've ever >> attempted >> to purchase after the law's passage have had description; they >> are a >> bit more expensive, of course, due to the exchange rate, but >> that's a >> small price to pay, imho. >> Courtney >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 23:47:22 2012 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:47:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbv-announce] The Barbara McCarthy Scholarship In-Reply-To: <006201cdd7ee$d27d2ea0$77778be0$@sks.com> References: <15BE17DD8B9D3F4086F9AD7FBDAF46D70E8F386A@COVMSGCES-MBX13> <006201cdd7ee$d27d2ea0$77778be0$@sks.com> Message-ID: <02f501cdd7f9$de37a670$9aa6f350$@gmail.com> The note below is from Julie Kay from the Hadley School for the Blind. It concerns a scholarship opportunity for individuals planning to teach blind students. From: Julie Lee Kay [mailto:Julie at hadley.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 3:22 PM To: Subject: The Barbara McCarthy Scholarship As you may have heard, the Virginia Chapter of AER has named its new scholarship in honor of DBVI's own Barbara McCarthy. She was a perfect choice; her dedication to the blind and visually impaired people in Virginia and beyond is extraordinary. We are offering a $1000 scholarship for students who are interested in working in the field of blindness. I thought you might want to share the information about our scholarship; I have attached more information for you. It is intended for Virginians who may attend out-of-state training or a student from any state attending a vision prep program here in Virginia. Please feel free to distribute this information to anyone that meets the criteria listed in the attached cover letter and scholarship application. Best wishes for a lovely Thanksgiving, Julie Lee Kay -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AER scholarship Applicatiom.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 25733 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AER scholarship cover letter.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 17914 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nfbv-announce mailing list Nfbv-announce at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbv-announce_nfbnet.org From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 00:11:53 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:11:53 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a leader as a blind person. I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could mean me getting or losing a job later on. If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I don't even notice the difference. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very interesting. What do you guys think? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: LILITH Finkler Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?" To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a series on "person first language". Lilith=========================================================================================== CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there are “people with disabilities.” No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that the disability rights movement is changing language to be more respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is through language.” The global movement to promote person-first language has been extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with autism. But some people, including members of several disability groups, aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered derogatory or pejorative in the first place. St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer is nothing short of ludicrous. “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first language (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives that describe them before they arrive at the noun” (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more years.” The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their language according to their audience so that focus remains on their message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ published online November 7, 2012Full Text ________________End of message________________ This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for Disability Studies at the University of Leeds (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). Enquiries about list administration should be sent to disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk Archives and tools are located at: www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 00:27:36 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:27:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] A Song I want Message-ID: <50c7cf9e.44d3440a.2140.ffff874b@mx.google.com> Yeah that would be a good idea. Yes it was Department of Rehab that got me my Apex. ----- Original Message ----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Brandon, Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a leader as a blind person. > > I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could mean me getting or losing a job later on. > > If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > > If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > > I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I don't even notice the difference. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > interesting. What do you guys think? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: LILITH Finkler > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?" > To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > > > Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > series on "person first language". > Lilith=========================================================================================== > CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > are “people with disabilities.” > No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > through language.” > The global movement to promote person-first language has been > extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > autism. > But some people, including members of several disability groups, > aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the > person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > is nothing short of ludicrous. > “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > language (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > years.” > The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > published online November 7, 2012Full Text > ________________End of message________________ > > This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > > Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > > Archives and tools are located at: > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > > You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 03:07:26 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:07:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi all, The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I think that's a different question from what the article I posted is asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more appropriate? I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. Arielle On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > Brandon, > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >> leader as a blind person. >> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> don't even notice the difference. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: LILITH Finkler >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?" >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> series on "person first language". >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >> are “people with disabilities.” >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> through language.” >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> autism. >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >> language >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> years.” >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> ________________End of message________________ >> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> Archives and tools are located at: >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> page. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 03:45:31 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:45:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <27D6975B-EC9D-42AC-B525-AD8FCCF5A8A6@gmail.com> Apologies for slightly highjacking, Arielle. I'm interested in the question the article poses, and like Arielle, I resist the requirement to use people first language. I think it's fine to say people who are blind if that sounds better or if it adds variety to writing and speaking, but I'm not a fan of the requirement to always use this phrase. It seems to be partly motivated by the desire to create distance between the person and the trait/characteristic. Why not insist on people who are intelligent or people who are attractive? I think the answer is that we recognize these qualities as either neutral or positive, but disability generally and blindness in particular are seen as negative, and thus we want to distance ourselves or the people we are talking about from those negative qualities by using people first language. That said, the term "the blind" is one I'm not fond of. It jars me the way saying the blacks or the gays does. It would be nice if we could say something like blinds and avoid the whole issue, the way we can say African Americans/blacks or homosexuals, but of course blind is an adjective and not a noun. With the exception of terms like blinks or blindies, not widely accepted, we have to say "the blind" or "blind people" when talking about a specific group of blind people or blind people generally. I'm not completely sure why I dislike it, but I definitely do and will almost always say blind people rather than "the blind", unless I'm being required to use people first language. I'm not alone on this either apparently. The RNIB has changed it's name twice in the recent past. First, the Royal National Institute for the Blind became the Royal National Institute of the Blind. This reflected a shift in governance of the organization. It shifted from an organization for to an organization of blind people, but that was not the end of the name changing. More recently, the RNIB became the Royal National Institute of Blind People. Personally, I prefer this, though as I admit, I'm not entirely sure why. It has something to do with the term "the blind" feeling to me incredibly impersonal, but I haven't spent enough time thinking about it to explain further. I'd be interested to know if members of an organization that has "the blind" in its name are at all uncomfortable with this way of referring to blind people. Best, Marc On 2012-12-11, at 8:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > appropriate? > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > Arielle > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> Brandon, >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?" >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> series on "person first language". >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>> are “people with disabilities.” >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> through language.” >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> autism. >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>> language >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> years.” >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> page. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 04:39:43 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:39:43 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? In-Reply-To: <27D6975B-EC9D-42AC-B525-AD8FCCF5A8A6@gmail.com> References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <27D6975B-EC9D-42AC-B525-AD8FCCF5A8A6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ACC71FE38834B1C9C9086666A2FA88B@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, National federation of people who are blind. Hm, not the ring I'd like... NFB sounds cooler! When we refer to people with their sight we say sighted folks, or sighted people. I sometimes say people who are sighted, but in that context I do think of that trait above all else, their neurological patterns communicating from their brain to their eyes at a standard 20/20 vision. When I say blind people I know that people are going to think of my blindness first. Even if I say I'm a person who is blind the reader will fix that unique trait on me above all else. If I say something like I'm an Opera singer or I'm a person who sings Opera, I'm sure the same thing happens. People focus on that unique trait and I don't think it makes a difference where it gets put in the sentence. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? Apologies for slightly highjacking, Arielle. I'm interested in the question the article poses, and like Arielle, I resist the requirement to use people first language. I think it's fine to say people who are blind if that sounds better or if it adds variety to writing and speaking, but I'm not a fan of the requirement to always use this phrase. It seems to be partly motivated by the desire to create distance between the person and the trait/characteristic. Why not insist on people who are intelligent or people who are attractive? I think the answer is that we recognize these qualities as either neutral or positive, but disability generally and blindness in particular are seen as negative, and thus we want to distance ourselves or the people we are talking about from those negative qualities by using people first language. That said, the term "the blind" is one I'm not fond of. It jars me the way saying the blacks or the gays does. It would be nice if we could say something like blinds and avoid the whole issue, the way we can say African Americans/blacks or homosexuals, but of course blind is an adjective and not a noun. With the exception of terms like blinks or blindies, not widely accepted, we have to say "the blind" or "blind people" when talking about a specific group of blind people or blind people generally. I'm not completely sure why I dislike it, but I definitely do and will almost always say blind people rather than "the blind", unless I'm being required to use people first language. I'm not alone on this either apparently. The RNIB has changed it's name twice in the recent past. First, the Royal National Institute for the Blind became the Royal National Institute of the Blind. This reflected a shift in governance of the organization. It shifted from an organization for to an organization of blind people, but that was not the end of the name changing. More recently, the RNIB became the Royal National Institute of Blind People. Personally, I prefer this, though as I admit, I'm not entirely sure why. It has something to do with the term "the blind" feeling to me incredibly impersonal, but I haven't spent enough time thinking about it to explain further. I'd be interested to know if members of an organization that has "the blind" in its name are at all uncomfortable with this way of referring to blind people. Best, Marc On 2012-12-11, at 8:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > appropriate? > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > Arielle > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> Brandon, >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>> what >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >>> my >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >>> my >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>> where >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>> :). >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>> known >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>> don't >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >>> to >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?" >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> series on "person first language". >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>> are “people with disabilities.” >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> through language.” >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> autism. >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>> language >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> years.” >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> page. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 05:46:11 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:46:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? In-Reply-To: <1ACC71FE38834B1C9C9086666A2FA88B@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <27D6975B-EC9D-42AC-B525-AD8FCCF5A8A6@gmail.com> <1ACC71FE38834B1C9C9086666A2FA88B@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: To clarify, Brandon, it's not the Royal National Institute of People who are Blind. It's the RNIB, which stands for Royal National Institute of Blind People. NFB could remain NFB and stand for National Federation of Blind People. You could tweak what the acronym stands for without changing the acronym itself. Not that I'm suggesting NFB change what it stands for. Probably, I'd support such a change, but "the blind" as a way for referring to blind people seems to be so widely accepted and entrenched that I doubt such a proposed change would be taken seriously enough to even debate, let alone to be supported by whatever majority would be required to make the change. I'm only saying that since we're on the topic of how we refer to blind people, I think the term "the blind" is a little outdated and impersonal. Best, Marc On 2012-12-11, at 9:39 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > National federation of people who are blind. Hm, not the ring I'd like... > NFB sounds cooler! > When we refer to people with their sight we say sighted folks, or sighted people. I sometimes say people who are sighted, but in that context I do think of that trait above all else, their neurological patterns communicating from their brain to their eyes at a standard 20/20 vision. > When I say blind people I know that people are going to think of my blindness first. Even if I say I'm a person who is blind the reader will fix that unique trait on me above all else. If I say something like I'm an Opera singer or I'm a person who sings Opera, I'm sure the same thing happens. People focus on that unique trait and I don't think it makes a difference where it gets put in the sentence. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:45 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? > > Apologies for slightly highjacking, Arielle. > > I'm interested in the question the article poses, and like Arielle, I resist the requirement to use people first language. I think it's fine to say people who are blind if that sounds better or if it adds variety to writing and speaking, but I'm not a fan of the requirement to always use this phrase. > > It seems to be partly motivated by the desire to create distance between the person and the trait/characteristic. Why not insist on people who are intelligent or people who are attractive? I think the answer is that we recognize these qualities as either neutral or positive, but disability generally and blindness in particular are seen as negative, and thus we want to distance ourselves or the people we are talking about from those negative qualities by using people first language. > > That said, the term "the blind" is one I'm not fond of. It jars me the way saying the blacks or the gays does. It would be nice if we could say something like blinds and avoid the whole issue, the way we can say African Americans/blacks or homosexuals, but of course blind is an adjective and not a noun. With the exception of terms like blinks or blindies, not widely accepted, we have to say "the blind" or "blind people" when talking about a specific group of blind people or blind people generally. I'm not completely sure why I dislike it, but I definitely do and will almost always say blind people rather than "the blind", unless I'm being required to use people first language. > > I'm not alone on this either apparently. The RNIB has changed it's name twice in the recent past. First, the Royal National Institute for the Blind became the Royal National Institute of the Blind. This reflected a shift in governance of the organization. It shifted from an organization for to an organization of blind people, but that was not the end of the name changing. More recently, the RNIB became the Royal National Institute of Blind People. Personally, I prefer this, though as I admit, I'm not entirely sure why. It has something to do with the term "the blind" feeling to me incredibly impersonal, but I haven't spent enough time thinking about it to explain further. > > I'd be interested to know if members of an organization that has "the blind" in its name are at all uncomfortable with this way of referring to blind people. > > Best, > > Marc > On 2012-12-11, at 8:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or >> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >> appropriate? >> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed >> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >> Arielle >> >> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>> Brandon, >>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my >>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>>> leader as a blind person. >>>> >>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my >>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where >>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). >>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>>> >>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known >>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't >>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>>> >>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to >>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>>> >>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>>> don't even notice the difference. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>> >>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: LILITH Finkler >>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>> effect?" >>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>>> series on "person first language". >>>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>>> are “people with disabilities.” >>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>>> through language.” >>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>>> autism. >>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>>> language >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>>> years.” >>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>>> ________________End of message________________ >>>> >>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>>> >>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>> >>>> Archives and tools are located at: >>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>>> >>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>>> page. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Dec 12 10:53:26 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:53:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: There was a researcher in the blindness community of The northwest who sought to answer the same question. He found that blind people usually refer to themselves as blind people or visually impaired people And generally preferred that two person first language. He also found that sighted people, particularly professionals in the disability community, are more likely to use person first language and are more likely to prefer that. So, it would seem that this is a case of the majority telling the minority what to do in terms of how they should be calling themselves. The idea behind person first language is to draw attention away from a particular characteristic. That suggests that the characteristic is thought to be negative. We do not use similar linguistic structure to describe things that are neutral or positive. For that reason, I go ahead and say blind people. I think using that particular phraseology permits discussion of whether or not blindness is positive, neutral, or negative. As for me personally, I say that blindness is neutral most of the time and positive most of the time For the same reasons as Arielle. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > appropriate? > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > Arielle > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> Brandon, >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?" >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> series on "person first language". >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>> are “people with disabilities.” >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> through language.” >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> autism. >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>> language >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> years.” >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> page. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From yasa.sylvia at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 17:23:11 2012 From: yasa.sylvia at gmail.com (Sylvia Yasa) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test Message-ID: Hello guys, I am a technology instructor at a blindness rehabilitation center in the state of Maryland. I currently have a student who wants to take the ACT test for college admission. This test has a mathematics section. I am very interested to know some of the techniques you use to handle math questions like word problems, simple equations, etc. Note: my student became blind recently, so her Braille, as of now, is not a reliable option. Any input will be extremely helpful! Thanks, Sylvia Sylvia Yasa M.ed - AT Assistive Technology Instructor / Specialist Blind Industries and Services of Maryland 3345 Washington BLVD., Baltimore, MD 21227 (410) 737- 2682 yasa.sylvia at gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 18:07:31 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:07:31 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test Message-ID: <50c8c80a.444b420a.2927.0cf1@mx.google.com> Hello everyone, For my career, I want to become a technology inststructor. What requirements did you need to become a technology instructor? were there any special classes required any classes at all? Thanks for your help, Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvia Yasa References: <50c8c80a.444b420a.2927.0cf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello and good afternoon Sylvia, Does your student yet use any kind of screen reader or magnifier (assuming he or she may have enough vision left for that?) If your student does have some residual vision but does not yet know how to use any kind of screen magnifiers for the computer, can the student read large print? What about a raised-line drawing board? Taking these various options into consideration, here are a few suggestions: The student could take the test on the computer using either a screen reader or screen magnifier. The test could be produced for the student in large print and the student could then answer all questions by reading, using normal methods, only in larger print. The student could have the test read to them (assuming reading in either method on his or her own is not possible) and then use a raised-line drawing board for writing out using memory of the written letters or numbers, the way to work the problems out, or the answers if using a calculator. It would obviously fall to the student to know how to solve the problems, but depending on what the student needs, he or she could use a drawing board to write the problem out in equation format, or, if calculators are allowed, write down the answers which could then be written in for her by a sighted person reading the board. Alternatively, for answering, if this test is multiple-choice, the student could come up with the answer and then tell the reader to read the options, and choose the option that fits the answer already obtained. I sincerely hope this helps, and feel free to contact me off list if you have any questions about anything I've mentioned here or to ask any other questions I might be able to help with. Best, Amber On 12/12/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello everyone, > For my career, I want to become a technology inststructor. What > requirements did you need to become a technology instructor? > were there any special classes required any classes at all? > Thanks for your help, > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sylvia Yasa To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:23:11 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test > > Hello guys, > > I am a technology instructor at a blindness rehabilitation center > in > the state of Maryland. I currently have a student who wants to > take > the ACT test for college admission. This test has a mathematics > section. > > I am very interested to know some of the techniques you use to > handle > math questions like word problems, simple equations, etc. > Note: my student became blind recently, so her Braille, as of > now, is > not a reliable option. > > Any input will be extremely helpful! > Thanks, > Sylvia > > Sylvia Yasa M.ed - AT > Assistive Technology Instructor / Specialist > Blind Industries and Services of Maryland > 3345 Washington BLVD., Baltimore, MD 21227 > (410) 737- 2682 > yasa.sylvia at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 19:48:56 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:48:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I'm a blink and proud of it! On a more serious note, I tend toward calling myself blind as much as I call myself white or Cajun or short or stubborn. I don't want to be a person of short stature (ok, I'm not that short, 5'3") or a person who is white or a person with stubbornness. It sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I think I'm in line with the people who say that saying "person who is blind" or "person with autism" is seperating a part of the person that can't actually be seperated. Blindness is a part of my life as much as any other trait, and it cannot be seperated from me. So, call me blind, call me a blind person, but don't call me a person with blindness (that sounds sooooo awkward). My two cents, Jewel On 12/12/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: > There was a researcher in the blindness community of The northwest who > sought to answer the same question. He found that blind people usually > refer to themselves as blind people or visually impaired people And > generally preferred that two person first language. He also found that > sighted people, particularly professionals in the disability community, are > more likely to use person first language and are more likely to prefer that. > So, it would seem that this is a case of the majority telling the minority > what to do in terms of how they should be calling themselves. The idea > behind person first language is to draw attention away from a particular > characteristic. That suggests that the characteristic is thought to be > negative. We do not use similar linguistic structure to describe things that > are neutral or positive. For that reason, I go ahead and say blind people. I > think using that particular phraseology permits discussion of whether or not > blindness is positive, neutral, or negative. As for me personally, I say > that blindness is neutral most of the time and positive most of the time For > the same reasons as Arielle. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or >> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >> appropriate? >> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed >> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >> Arielle >> >> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>> Brandon, >>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>>> what >>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >>>> my >>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>>> leader as a blind person. >>>> >>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >>>> my >>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>>> where >>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>>> :). >>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>>> >>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>>> known >>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>>> don't >>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>>> >>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >>>> to >>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>>> >>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>>> don't even notice the difference. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>> >>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: LILITH Finkler >>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>> effect?" >>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>>> series on "person first language". >>>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>>> are “people with disabilities.” >>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>>> through language.” >>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>>> autism. >>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>>> language >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>>> years.” >>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>>> ________________End of message________________ >>>> >>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>>> >>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>> >>>> Archives and tools are located at: >>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>>> >>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>>> page. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 21:07:47 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:07:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121212130715.01e63d28@comcast.net> Good morning, Jewel, Here Here!At 11:48 AM 12/12/2012, Jewel wrote: >I'm a blink and proud of it! > >On a more serious note, I tend toward calling myself blind as much as >I call myself white or Cajun or short or stubborn. I don't want to be >a person of short stature (ok, I'm not that short, 5'3") or a person >who is white or a person with stubbornness. It sounds pretty >ridiculous to me. I think I'm in line with the people who say that >saying "person who is blind" or "person with autism" is seperating a >part of the person that can't actually be seperated. Blindness is a >part of my life as much as any other trait, and it cannot be seperated >from me. So, call me blind, call me a blind person, but don't call me >a person with blindness (that sounds sooooo awkward). > >My two cents, >Jewel > >On 12/12/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: > > There was a researcher in the blindness community of The northwest who > > sought to answer the same question. He found that blind people usually > > refer to themselves as blind people or visually impaired people And > > generally preferred that two person first language. He also found that > > sighted people, particularly professionals in the disability community, are > > more likely to use person first language and > are more likely to prefer that. > > So, it would seem that this is a case of the majority telling the minority > > what to do in terms of how they should be calling themselves. The idea > > behind person first language is to draw attention away from a particular > > characteristic. That suggests that the characteristic is thought to be > > negative. We do not use similar linguistic > structure to describe things that > > are neutral or positive. For that reason, I > go ahead and say blind people. I > > think using that particular phraseology > permits discussion of whether or not > > blindness is positive, neutral, or negative. As for me personally, I say > > that blindness is neutral most of the time > and positive most of the time For > > the same reasons as Arielle. > > > > Respectfully, > > Jedi > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > >> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > >> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > >> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > >> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > >> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > >> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > >> appropriate? > >> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > >> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > >> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > >> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > >> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > >> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > >> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > >> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > >> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > >> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > >> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > >> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > >> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > >> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > >> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > >> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > >> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > >> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > >> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > >> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > >> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > >> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > >> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > >> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > >> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > >> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > >> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > >> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > >> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > >>> Brandon, > >>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and > >>>> what > >>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on > >>>> my > >>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to > >>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a > >>>> leader as a blind person. > >>>> > >>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about > >>>> my > >>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference > >>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects > >>>> where > >>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end > >>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because > >>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is > >>>> :). > >>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them > >>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of > >>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could > >>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >>>> > >>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be > >>>> known > >>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They > >>>> don't > >>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >>>> > >>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need > >>>> to > >>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >>>> > >>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >>>> don't even notice the difference. > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> > >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>>> > >>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >>>> interesting. What do you guys think? > >>>> > >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>>> From: LILITH Finkler > >>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>>> effect?" > >>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >>>> series on "person first language". > >>>> > Lilith=========================================================================================== > >>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > >>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >>>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >>>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >>>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >>>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >>>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >>>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >>>> are “people with disabilities.” > >>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > >>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > >>>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >>>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > >>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > >>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > >>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > >>>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >>>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > >>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >>>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >>>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >>>> through language.” > >>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > >>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > >>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >>>> autism. > >>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >>>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > >>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >>>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > >>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the > >>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >>>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >>>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >>>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >>>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >>>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > >>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >>>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >>>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > >>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > >>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >>>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > >>>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >>>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >>>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > >>>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > >>>> language > >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >>>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >>>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > >>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >>>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >>>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >>>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >>>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >>>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >>>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > >>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >>>> years.” > >>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > >>>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > >>>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >>>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >>>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >>>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >>>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >>>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >>>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > >>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > >>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >>>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >>>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >>>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >>>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >>>> ________________End of message________________ > >>>> > >>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > >>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > >>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >>>> > >>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > >>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>>> > >>>> Archives and tools are located at: > >>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >>>> > >>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web > >>>> page. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 04:26:07 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:26:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.3.1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cdd8e9$f9bf3610$ed3da230$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org [mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA announcement list Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:14 PM To: NVDA announcement mailing list Subject: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.3.1 released NVDA 2012.3.1 has just been released. This release includes updates and fixes to several translations. There are no functional changes. To download a copy, please visit: http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDA2012.3.1Released Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued development: http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate -- This is the NVDA announcement mailing list. To unsubscribe or edit your options, please visit: http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Dec 13 20:23:26 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:23:26 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121213122037.01be17a8@comcast.net> Hi, NABS, Don't you think it's up to the individual how they are are refered too by ol' Sighty, and others? This debate is pretty boring because I know how I feel most comfortable being referred too. So, everybody figure out what works for you, and be content! Car ----- Forwarded message ---------- >From: LILITH Finkler >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: >Noble intent but to what effect?" >To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > > >Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >series on "person first language". >Lilith=========================================================================================== >CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >“person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >are “people with disabilities.” >No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >“People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >(www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >through language.” >The global movement to promote person-first language has been >extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >autism. >But some people, including members of several disability groups, >aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >“with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >(‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >is nothing short of ludicrous. >“It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >language (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >“Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >“diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >“tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >years.” >The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >“person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >(www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >“person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >published online November 7, 2012Full Text >________________End of message________________ > >This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >(www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >Archives and tools are located at: >www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 20:24:53 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:24:53 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Happy Holidays from NBP! In-Reply-To: <1987666.1355429446893.JavaMail.www@app319> References: <1987666.1355429446893.JavaMail.www@app319> Message-ID: <002d01cdd96f$ea533010$bef99030$@gmail.com> From: Brian Mac Donald [mailto:contact at nbp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Mac Donald Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:16 AM To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Subject: Happy Holidays from NBP! Having trouble? View this message online. Happy Holidays End of Year Bow Season's Greetings from all of us at National Braille Press! As we celebrate this holiday season, we thank all of you - our braille readers, customers, donors, volunteers, trustees, members, staff, & friends - for everything that you do to further braille literacy. Wishing you joy and happiness! Make a Gift Button Tell a Friend Powered By Convio Manage your email preferences. National Braille Press. C 2012 All rights reserved. 88 Saint Stephen Street Boston, MA 02115-4302 From jj at bestmidi.com Thu Dec 13 20:32:36 2012 From: jj at bestmidi.com (Jason Meddaugh) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:32:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? References: <7.0.1.0.2.20121213122037.01be17a8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <084ED215F93445C2934C23FF05DDDD6F@jage> Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >the "Disability is Natural" website ( www.disabilityisnatural.com ). The contact form here has a visual CAPTCHA. Enough said. Best Regards, Jason Meddaugh A T Guys Your Assistive Technology Experts (269) 216-4798 http://www.ATGuys.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carly Mihalakis" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? Hi, NABS, Don't you think it's up to the individual how they are are refered too by ol' Sighty, and others? This debate is pretty boring because I know how I feel most comfortable being referred too. So, everybody figure out what works for you, and be content! Car ----- Forwarded message ---------- >From: LILITH Finkler >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >effect?" >To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > > >Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >series on "person first language". >Lilith=========================================================================================== >CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >noticed something curious."They changed 'clutterer' to 'person who >clutters' all the way through," says St. Louis.The changes to St. >Louis' prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >person shouldn't be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >"person" first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >characteristic. No longer are there "disabled people." Instead, there >are "people with disabilities." >No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >the "Disability is Natural" website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >"People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >marginalized and devalued because of labels," she says. "Labels have >always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >death, to be sterilized against their will."If a person-first language >advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: "CHILD WITH AUTISM >AREA."Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >is a person's most important characteristic reinforces the >all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >(www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >to past efforts by civil rights and women's movements."If people with >disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >they're to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart," wrote >Snow. "History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >through language." >The global movement to promote person-first language has been >extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >autism. >But some people, including members of several disability groups, >aren't big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >St. Louis' introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >person-first version of a label was regarded as "significantly more >positive" in only 2% of comparisons. "For example," wrote St. Louis, >"with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >individuals (e.g., 'Moron'), terms identifying serious mental illness >('psychosis') or dreaded diseases ('leprosy'), person-first >nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >reactions."There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >journal if you don't conform. In the field of speech-language >pathology, terms such as "person who stutters" or "child who stutters" >have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >is nothing short of ludicrous. >"It's not really about sensitivity," says St. Louis. "It's about: This >is just the way it's done."Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. "If you are going >to be a jerk," he says, "you can be just as much of a jerk using >person-first language as using the direct label."Members of some >disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >perceives as "an unholy crusade" to force everyone to use person-first >language >(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >federation's main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >defended its right "to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >that describe them before they arrive at the noun" >(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >"Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such." >Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >"diabetic" is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type "diabetic" and >"tattoo" into Google Images and you'll find thousands of people with >the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >British Columbia, who has "diabetic" tattooed on her inner left wrist >in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >someone called her a diabetic?"No, I wouldn't be offended," Christie >writes in an email. "Diabetes is me and who I am and I don't need to >hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >years." >The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >suggest that saying "autistic child" is not much better than referring >to someone with cancer as a "cancerous person." Many adults with >autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >prefer to use terms such as "autistic person." This has been called >identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >be separated from the person, which simply isn't true, according to >Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >"person with offspring" or calling a man a person "with maleness" >(www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >from personhood also "suggests that autism is something bad - so bad >that it isn't even consistent with being a person." >Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >message rather than how it's delivered. This is the approach taken by >Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her "journeys with >autism" on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com)."I will use >person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I'm talking >with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology," >Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. "I find that people's feelings >can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >language very problematic, I'll use it with people who favor it so >that we don't end up getting derailed into language discussions and >away from the issue at hand."Editor's note: First of a multipart >series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >"person"(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >published online November 7, 2012Full Text >________________End of message________________ > >This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >(www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >Archives and tools are located at: >www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 21:24:08 2012 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:24:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <9B086E0354C04BD8B8B0F5D3973AEA23@HP30910210001> Arielle. In many special education classes ththat I took, People First language is taught. Like you, I found it hard to use people first language in papers. If I was writing a paper on education, I had to stop myself from saying blind shildren, and write children who are blind. I like your idea of having a family of blind people. IMO, some of the people first language is steeped in pollitically correct language. Many blessings, melissa and Pj At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? Hi all, The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I think that's a different question from what the article I posted is asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more appropriate? I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. Arielle On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > Brandon, > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >> my >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >> leader as a blind person. >> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >> my >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> where >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >> :). >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> known >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> don't >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >> to >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> don't even notice the difference. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: LILITH Finkler >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?" >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> series on "person first language". >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >> are “people with disabilities.” >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> through language.” >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> autism. >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >> language >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> years.” >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> ________________End of message________________ >> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> Archives and tools are located at: >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> page. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Dec 13 21:53:48 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:53:48 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: <9B086E0354C04BD8B8B0F5D3973AEA23@HP30910210001> References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> , <9B086E0354C04BD8B8B0F5D3973AEA23@HP30910210001> Message-ID: Hey Melissa! I agree with your post! I also prefer blind over "Visually Impaired," any day! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of melissa Green [lissa1531 at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? Arielle. In many special education classes ththat I took, People First language is taught. Like you, I found it hard to use people first language in papers. If I was writing a paper on education, I had to stop myself from saying blind shildren, and write children who are blind. I like your idea of having a family of blind people. IMO, some of the people first language is steeped in pollitically correct language. Many blessings, melissa and Pj At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? Hi all, The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I think that's a different question from what the article I posted is asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more appropriate? I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. Arielle On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > Brandon, > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >> my >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >> leader as a blind person. >> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >> my >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> where >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >> :). >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> known >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> don't >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >> to >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> don't even notice the difference. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: LILITH Finkler >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?" >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> series on "person first language". >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >> are “people with disabilities.” >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> through language.” >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> autism. >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >> language >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> years.” >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> ________________End of message________________ >> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> Archives and tools are located at: >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> page. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 23:59:28 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:59:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test In-Reply-To: References: <50c8c80a.444b420a.2927.0cf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone know if computers with magnification or screen-reading software are allowed as an accommodation on the ACT or SAT? My impression was that computers are not allowed, only calculators, but I could be wrong (and I hope I am, I think they should be allowed). For many test-takers who are not proficient in Braille for one reason or another, and cannot use large print, reliance on a human reader is often the only option. This is OK but not the best accommodation for certain types of problems such as reading comprehension and math word problems. Tactile diagrams are generally provided and a formerly sighted student may not have much difficulty interpreting those, even if they are not fluent in Braille yet. Best, Arielle On 12/12/12, Herrin, Amber wrote: > Hello and good afternoon Sylvia, > > Does your student yet use any kind of screen reader or magnifier > (assuming he or she may have enough vision left for that?) > > If your student does have some residual vision but does not yet know > how to use any kind of screen magnifiers for the computer, can the > student read large print? > > What about a raised-line drawing board? > > Taking these various options into consideration, here are a few > suggestions: > > The student could take the test on the computer using either a screen > reader or screen magnifier. > The test could be produced for the student in large print and the > student could then answer all questions by reading, using normal > methods, only in larger print. > The student could have the test read to them (assuming reading in > either method on his or her own is not possible) and then use a > raised-line drawing board for writing out using memory of the written > letters or numbers, the way to work the problems out, or the answers > if using a calculator. > > It would obviously fall to the student to know how to solve the > problems, but depending on what the student needs, he or she could use > a drawing board to write the problem out in equation format, or, if > calculators are allowed, write down the answers which could then be > written in for her by a sighted person reading the board. > > Alternatively, for answering, if this test is multiple-choice, the > student could come up with the answer and then tell the reader to read > the options, and choose the option that fits the answer already > obtained. > > I sincerely hope this helps, and feel free to contact me off list if > you have any questions about anything I've mentioned here or to ask > any other questions I might be able to help with. > > Best, > > Amber > > On 12/12/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> For my career, I want to become a technology inststructor. What >> requirements did you need to become a technology instructor? >> were there any special classes required any classes at all? >> Thanks for your help, >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sylvia Yasa > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:23:11 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test >> >> Hello guys, >> >> I am a technology instructor at a blindness rehabilitation center >> in >> the state of Maryland. I currently have a student who wants to >> take >> the ACT test for college admission. This test has a mathematics >> section. >> >> I am very interested to know some of the techniques you use to >> handle >> math questions like word problems, simple equations, etc. >> Note: my student became blind recently, so her Braille, as of >> now, is >> not a reliable option. >> >> Any input will be extremely helpful! >> Thanks, >> Sylvia >> >> Sylvia Yasa M.ed - AT >> Assistive Technology Instructor / Specialist >> Blind Industries and Services of Maryland >> 3345 Washington BLVD., Baltimore, MD 21227 >> (410) 737- 2682 >> yasa.sylvia at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Amber R. Herrin > > e: herrinar at muohio.edu > P: (513) 593-5855 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Dec 14 01:14:27 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:14:27 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121213170048.01c8bec0@comcast.net> Hi,, List, Personally, I feel most comfortable being thought of in terms of a blind person, not a "person who is blind" I feel it waters down a cultural, if not a physilogical element blindness can entale. For that reason, I am completely against so-called people first, verbeage. I believe it may prove to alienate us further in that by expecting people feel they must walk on egg shells when referring to us. Besides, too many indirect words waters down a voice already stifled. use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >Arielle > >On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > > Brandon, > > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what > >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my > >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to > >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a > >> leader as a blind person. > >> > >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my > >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference > >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where > >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end > >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because > >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). > >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them > >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of > >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could > >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >> > >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known > >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't > >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >> > >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to > >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >> > >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >> don't even notice the difference. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >> > >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >> interesting. What do you guys think? > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: LILITH Finkler > >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what > >> effect?" > >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >> > >> > >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >> series on "person first language". > >> > Lilith=========================================================================================== > >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >> are “people with disabilities.” > >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > >> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > >> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > >> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >> through language.” > >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >> autism. > >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the > >> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > >> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > >> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > >> language > >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >> years.” > >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > >> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > >> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >> ________________End of message________________ > >> > >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >> > >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >> > >> Archives and tools are located at: > >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >> > >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web > >> page. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 01:45:29 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:45:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20121213170048.01c8bec0@comcast.net> References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20121213170048.01c8bec0@comcast.net> Message-ID: This is interesting. It seems clear that at least for the most part, "person-first" expressions like people who are blind are used and advocated by those without disabilities, while those with disabilities prefer the "identity-first" versions such as blind people. Why the difference? It seems there might be at least two reasons why "outsiders" (sighted/nondisabled) might prefer person-first language. The first is out of a noble desire to use language that respects us and affords us full humanity, as "people first". The second is out of a more prejudiced desire to distance people from disabilities and to hide or minimize characteristics that are viewed negatively. I was discussing this with a friend who is a special education professor (someone who trains future special ed teachers) who does not herself have any disability. She argued that person-first language is important because it prevents the use of offensive terms that used to be used, such as "retards". We also talked about how euphemisms such as "special needs" and "differently abled", though perhaps more accurate than the word "disability", have started to take on their own negative connotations. Personally I never really liked being called someone with special needs, although it is funny that I don't really object to being called a person with a disability (or a disabled person) but when you think about it, blindness is more of a special need than it is a disability. We aren't diminished in our abilities to do things so much as we have different accessibility needs, etc. than do sighted people. It is clear that what is offensive vs. not is in the eye of the beholder. I hope that we as blind people will start to be heard by outsiders if we argue that we want to be called blind people instead of people who are blind. I admit that as a "white heterosexual" I have in the past felt awkward and uncertain about how to refer to people who have dark skin and/or people who are sexually attracted to their same gender. In fact I'm still not quite sure whether the term "black" or "African-American" is more appropriate or if there is even a consensus about that. I am, however, certain that I will only call these and other minorities by the names they say they want to be called. Unfortunately it seems we as blind people aren't always given this courtesy, or perhaps we just haven't really had that conversation with the sighted about it. It is also a shame that there is such a disconnect between the group comprised of blind people and the group comprised of professionals and researchers on blindness. A major part of the disconnect is that we have been actively kept out of some of the blindness professions and few of us have elected to initiate blindness-related research. That is slowly changing with the LA Tech programs and I hope our generation can continue this trend of integration between our community and those who serve us. If we are the ones editing the journals and setting the linguistic norms, not only might we start being called by a name that affirms our positive identity, but we might actually get some work done that advances our standing in the world. Nothing about us without us! Arielle On 12/13/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi,, List, > > Personally, I feel most comfortable being thought > of in terms of a blind person, not a "person who > is blind" I feel it waters down a cultural, if > not a physilogical element blindness can entale. > For that reason, I am completely against > so-called people first, verbeage. I believe it > may prove to alienate us further in that by > expecting people feel they must walk on egg shells when referring to us. > Besides, too many indirect words waters down a voice already stifled. > > use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>Arielle >> >>On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> > Brandon, >> > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hello, >> >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >> >> what >> >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >> >> my >> >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >> >> to >> >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >> >> a >> >> leader as a blind person. >> >> >> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >> >> my >> >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >> >> reference >> >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> >> where >> >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >> >> end >> >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >> >> because >> >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >> >> :). >> >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >> >> them >> >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >> >> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> >> known >> >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> >> don't >> >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >> >> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >> >> to >> >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >> >> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> >> don't even notice the difference. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >> >> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> >> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >> From: LILITH Finkler >> >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >> effect?" >> >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> >> series on "person first language". >> >> >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> >> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >> >> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> >> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> >> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> >> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> >> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >> >> are “people with disabilities.” >> >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> >> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> >> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >> >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> >> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >> >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >> >> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> >> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >> >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> >> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >> >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> >> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >> >> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> >> through language.” >> >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> >> autism. >> >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> >> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> >> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >> >> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >> >> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >> >> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> >> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >> >> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >> >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> >> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> >> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >> >> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >> >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> >> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >> >> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >> >> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >> >> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >> >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> >> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >> >> language >> >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> >> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> >> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >> >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> >> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >> >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> >> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >> >> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >> >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> >> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >> >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> >> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >> >> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >> >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> >> years.” >> >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> >> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >> >> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >> >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> >> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >> >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> >> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >> >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> >> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >> >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> >> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >> >> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >> >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> >> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >> >> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >> >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >> >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >> >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >> >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> >> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >> >> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> >> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >> >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> >> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> >> ________________End of message________________ >> >> >> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >> >> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> >> Archives and tools are located at: >> >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >> >> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> >> page. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 02:40:01 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:40:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20121213170048.01c8bec0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9FF36AF0-8644-4DAE-BA84-C74049BA1209@gmail.com> that is the same thing that autistic people want. but it isn't just the sighted world that gve us grief about it. i found that a lot of sighted people do better wth me the some blind people. though we have a lot of the same theories. we have the nothng about us, with out us, with the autistics self advocacy group as the n f b. so why we can't work together, especialy blind autistics like myself, is beyond me. a lot of the tactile techniques that work with blind people, work with autistc people. i would love to be understood, and work with other blind people. have to deal with both, autism and blindness, and i would be of help, as weell as be helped. Lavonnya Sent from my iPad On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > This is interesting. It seems clear that at least for the most part, > "person-first" expressions like people who are blind are used and > advocated by those without disabilities, while those with disabilities > prefer the "identity-first" versions such as blind people. Why the > difference? > It seems there might be at least two reasons why "outsiders" > (sighted/nondisabled) might prefer person-first language. The first is > out of a noble desire to use language that respects us and affords us > full humanity, as "people first". The second is out of a more > prejudiced desire to distance people from disabilities and to hide or > minimize characteristics that are viewed negatively. > I was discussing this with a friend who is a special education > professor (someone who trains future special ed teachers) who does not > herself have any disability. She argued that person-first language is > important because it prevents the use of offensive terms that used to > be used, such as "retards". We also talked about how euphemisms such > as "special needs" and "differently abled", though perhaps more > accurate than the word "disability", have started to take on their own > negative connotations. Personally I never really liked being called > someone with special needs, although it is funny that I don't really > object to being called a person with a disability (or a disabled > person) but when you think about it, blindness is more of a special > need than it is a disability. We aren't diminished in our abilities to > do things so much as we have different accessibility needs, etc. than > do sighted people. > It is clear that what is offensive vs. not is in the eye of the > beholder. I hope that we as blind people will start to be heard by > outsiders if we argue that we want to be called blind people instead > of people who are blind. I admit that as a "white heterosexual" I have > in the past felt awkward and uncertain about how to refer to people > who have dark skin and/or people who are sexually attracted to their > same gender. In fact I'm still not quite sure whether the term "black" > or "African-American" is more appropriate or if there is even a > consensus about that. I am, however, certain that I will only call > these and other minorities by the names they say they want to be > called. Unfortunately it seems we as blind people aren't always given > this courtesy, or perhaps we just haven't really had that conversation > with the sighted about it. It is also a shame that there is such a > disconnect between the group comprised of blind people and the group > comprised of professionals and researchers on blindness. A major part > of the disconnect is that we have been actively kept out of some of > the blindness professions and few of us have elected to initiate > blindness-related research. That is slowly changing with the LA Tech > programs and I hope our generation can continue this trend of > integration between our community and those who serve us. If we are > the ones editing the journals and setting the linguistic norms, not > only might we start being called by a name that affirms our positive > identity, but we might actually get some work done that advances our > standing in the world. > Nothing about us without us! > Arielle > > On 12/13/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi,, List, >> >> Personally, I feel most comfortable being thought >> of in terms of a blind person, not a "person who >> is blind" I feel it waters down a cultural, if >> not a physilogical element blindness can entale. >> For that reason, I am completely against >> so-called people first, verbeage. I believe it >> may prove to alienate us further in that by >> expecting people feel they must walk on egg shells when referring to us. >> Besides, too many indirect words waters down a voice already stifled. >> >> use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>>> Brandon, >>>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>>>> what >>>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >>>>> my >>>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >>>>> to >>>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >>>>> a >>>>> leader as a blind person. >>>>> >>>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >>>>> my >>>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >>>>> reference >>>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>>>> where >>>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >>>>> end >>>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >>>>> because >>>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>>>> :). >>>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >>>>> them >>>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>>>> >>>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>>>> known >>>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>>>> don't >>>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>>>> >>>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >>>>> to >>>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>>>> >>>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>>>> don't even notice the difference. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>>> >>>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>>>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: LILITH Finkler >>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>>> effect?" >>>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>>>> series on "person first language". >>>>> >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>>>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>>>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>>>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>>>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>>>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>>>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>>>> are “people with disabilities.” >>>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>>>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>>>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>>>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>>>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>>>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>>>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>>>> through language.” >>>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>>>> autism. >>>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>>>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>>>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >>>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>>>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>>>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>>>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>>>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>>>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>>>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>>>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>>>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>>>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>>>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>>>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>>>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>>>> language >>>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>>>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>>>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>>>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>>>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>>>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>>>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>>>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>>>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>>>> years.” >>>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>>>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>>>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>>>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>>>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>>>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>>>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>>>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>>>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>>>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>>>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>>>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>>>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>>>> ________________End of message________________ >>>>> >>>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>>>> >>>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>>> >>>>> Archives and tools are located at: >>>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>>>> >>>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>>>> page. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 21:29:04 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:29:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Message-ID: Hi all, Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a little slower. What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would work better on a text site or mobile site. Thanks for any feedback! Ashley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 21:35:05 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:35:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Message-ID: <3250D4D4DED84891938AC1FD3CB47513@OwnerPC> Hi all, What streaming websites do you like? Can you navigate them okay? I wanted to know what your experience has been with streaming audio on your notetaker and computer. What websites do you use? How accessible are they? What type of music is offered? Also, do you pay a subscription and how often? I know some websites offer radio service online and thought that might be an option via the notetaker as well. How cool it would be to listen to radio or music wirelessly on campus, at a café, or a hotel. Thanks. Ashley From zdreicer at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 21:40:32 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:40:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: freelists.org/lists/braillenote Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi all, > Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! > > I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a little slower. > What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. > Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would work better on a text site or mobile site. > Thanks for any feedback! > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From yasa.sylvia at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 22:21:41 2012 From: yasa.sylvia at gmail.com (Sylvia Yasa) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:21:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test Message-ID: Hello Arielle, You can use your assistive technology and a computer only for the essay part of the test, as an alternative to using a scribe. However, I think this option is not valid for the other sections of the test. Sylvia On 12/14/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Carly Mihalakis) > 2. {Disarmed} FW: Happy Holidays from NBP! (Humberto Avila) > 3. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Jason Meddaugh) > 4. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (melissa Green) > 5. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Joshua Lester) > 6. Re: ACT Test (Arielle Silverman) > 7. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Carly Mihalakis) > 8. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? > (Arielle Silverman) > 9. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Lavonya Gardner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:23:26 -0800 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > , nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121213122037.01be17a8 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Hi, NABS, > > Don't you think it's up to the > individual how they are are refered too by ol' > Sighty, and others? This debate is pretty boring > because I know how I feel most comfortable being referred too. > So, everybody figure out what works for you, and be content! > Car ----- Forwarded message ---------- >>From: LILITH Finkler >>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: >>Noble intent but to what effect?" >>To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >>Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>series on "person first language". >>Lilith=========================================================================================== >>CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >>clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >>are ?people with disabilities.? >>No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >>always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first language >>advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH AUTISM >>AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >>all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>(www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >>disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >>Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>through language.? >>The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>autism. >>But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >>positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >>?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >>(?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >>nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >>pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who stutters? >>have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>is nothing short of ludicrous. >>?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: This >>is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >>to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >>person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >>disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use person-first >>language >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >>(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >>Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >>?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >>the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >>in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >>writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >>hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>years.? >>The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than referring >>to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >>autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >>identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >>Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >>(www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >>that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >>Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >>autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >>person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m talking >>with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >>Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >>can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >>that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >>series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>________________End of message________________ >> >>This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>(www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >>Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >>Archives and tools are located at: >>www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >>You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> page. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:24:53 -0800 > From: "Humberto Avila" > To: , , , > , , > Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Happy Holidays from NBP! > Message-ID: <002d01cdd96f$ea533010$bef99030$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > From: Brian Mac Donald [mailto:contact at nbp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Mac > Donald > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:16 AM > To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com > Subject: Happy Holidays from NBP! > > Having trouble? > View this message online. > > Happy Holidays > End of Year Bow > Season's Greetings from all of us at National Braille Press! > > As we celebrate this holiday season, we thank all of you - our braille > readers, customers, donors, volunteers, trustees, members, staff, & friends > - for everything that you do to further braille literacy. > > Wishing you joy and happiness! > > > Make a Gift Button > Tell a Friend > > > > > Powered By Convio > > > Manage your email preferences. > National Braille Press. C 2012 All rights reserved. > 88 Saint Stephen Street Boston, MA 02115-4302 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:32:36 -0500 > From: "Jason Meddaugh" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: <084ED215F93445C2934C23FF05DDDD6F at jage> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>the "Disability is Natural" website ( > www.disabilityisnatural.com > ). > > The contact form here has a visual CAPTCHA. Enough said. > > Best Regards, > Jason Meddaugh > A T Guys > Your Assistive Technology Experts > (269) 216-4798 > http://www.ATGuys.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carly Mihalakis" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > > Hi, NABS, > > Don't you think it's up to the > individual how they are are refered too by ol' > Sighty, and others? This debate is pretty boring > because I know how I feel most comfortable being referred too. > So, everybody figure out what works for you, and be content! > Car ----- Forwarded message ---------- >>From: LILITH Finkler >>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>effect?" >>To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >>Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>series on "person first language". >>Lilith=========================================================================================== >>CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>noticed something curious."They changed 'clutterer' to 'person who >>clutters' all the way through," says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>Louis' prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>person shouldn't be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>"person" first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>characteristic. No longer are there "disabled people." Instead, there >>are "people with disabilities." >>No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>the "Disability is Natural" website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>"People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>marginalized and devalued because of labels," she says. "Labels have >>always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>death, to be sterilized against their will."If a person-first language >>advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: "CHILD WITH AUTISM >>AREA."Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>is a person's most important characteristic reinforces the >>all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>(www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>to past efforts by civil rights and women's movements."If people with >>disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>they're to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart," wrote >>Snow. "History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>through language." >>The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>autism. >>But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>aren't big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>St. Louis' introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>person-first version of a label was regarded as "significantly more >>positive" in only 2% of comparisons. "For example," wrote St. Louis, >>"with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>individuals (e.g., 'Moron'), terms identifying serious mental illness >>('psychosis') or dreaded diseases ('leprosy'), person-first >>nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>reactions."There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>journal if you don't conform. In the field of speech-language >>pathology, terms such as "person who stutters" or "child who stutters" >>have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>is nothing short of ludicrous. >>"It's not really about sensitivity," says St. Louis. "It's about: This >>is just the way it's done."Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. "If you are going >>to be a jerk," he says, "you can be just as much of a jerk using >>person-first language as using the direct label."Members of some >>disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>perceives as "an unholy crusade" to force everyone to use person-first >>language >>(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>federation's main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>defended its right "to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>that describe them before they arrive at the noun" >>(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>"Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such." >>Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>"diabetic" is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type "diabetic" and >>"tattoo" into Google Images and you'll find thousands of people with >>the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>British Columbia, who has "diabetic" tattooed on her inner left wrist >>in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>someone called her a diabetic?"No, I wouldn't be offended," Christie >>writes in an email. "Diabetes is me and who I am and I don't need to >>hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>years." >>The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>suggest that saying "autistic child" is not much better than referring >>to someone with cancer as a "cancerous person." Many adults with >>autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>prefer to use terms such as "autistic person." This has been called >>identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>be separated from the person, which simply isn't true, according to >>Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>"person with offspring" or calling a man a person "with maleness" >>(www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>from personhood also "suggests that autism is something bad - so bad >>that it isn't even consistent with being a person." >>Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>message rather than how it's delivered. This is the approach taken by >>Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her "journeys with >>autism" on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com)."I will use >>person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I'm talking >>with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology," >>Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. "I find that people's feelings >>can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>language very problematic, I'll use it with people who favor it so >>that we don't end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>away from the issue at hand."Editor's note: First of a multipart >>series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>"person"(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>________________End of message________________ >> >>This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>(www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >>Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >>Archives and tools are located at: >>www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >>You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> page. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:24:08 -0700 > From: "melissa Green" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: <9B086E0354C04BD8B8B0F5D3973AEA23 at HP30910210001> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Arielle. > In many special education classes ththat I took, People First language is > taught. > Like you, I found it hard to use people first language in papers. > If I was writing a paper on education, I had to stop myself from saying > blind shildren, and write children who are blind. > I like your idea of having a family of blind people. > IMO, some of the people first language is steeped in pollitically correct > language. > > Many blessings, > melissa and Pj > At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and > you know what you want. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > > Hi all, > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > appropriate? > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > Arielle > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> Brandon, >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>> what >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >>> my >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >>> my >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>> where >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>> :). >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>> known >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>> don't >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >>> to >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?" >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> series on "person first language". >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >>> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >>> are ?people with disabilities.? >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first language >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH AUTISM >>> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >>> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> through language.? >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> autism. >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >>> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >>> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who stutters? >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: This >>> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >>> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use person-first >>> language >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >>> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >>> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> years.? >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than referring >>> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >>> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >>> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m talking >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >>> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> page. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:53:48 +0000 > From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hey Melissa! > I agree with your post! > I also prefer blind over "Visually Impaired," any day! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of melissa Green > [lissa1531 at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > Arielle. > In many special education classes ththat I took, People First language is > taught. > Like you, I found it hard to use people first language in papers. > If I was writing a paper on education, I had to stop myself from saying > blind shildren, and write children who are blind. > I like your idea of having a family of blind people. > IMO, some of the people first language is steeped in pollitically correct > language. > > Many blessings, > melissa and Pj > At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and > you know what you want. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > > Hi all, > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > appropriate? > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > Arielle > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> Brandon, >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>> what >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >>> my >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >>> my >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>> where >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>> :). >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>> known >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>> don't >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >>> to >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?" >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> series on "person first language". >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >>> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >>> are ?people with disabilities.? >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first language >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH AUTISM >>> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >>> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> through language.? >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> autism. >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >>> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >>> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who stutters? >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: This >>> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >>> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use person-first >>> language >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >>> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >>> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> years.? >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than referring >>> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >>> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >>> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m talking >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >>> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> page. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:59:28 -0700 > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ACT Test > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi all, > Does anyone know if computers with magnification or screen-reading > software are allowed as an accommodation on the ACT or SAT? My > impression was that computers are not allowed, only calculators, but I > could be wrong (and I hope I am, I think they should be allowed). > For many test-takers who are not proficient in Braille for one reason > or another, and cannot use large print, reliance on a human reader is > often the only option. This is OK but not the best accommodation for > certain types of problems such as reading comprehension and math word > problems. > Tactile diagrams are generally provided and a formerly sighted student > may not have much difficulty interpreting those, even if they are not > fluent in Braille yet. > Best, > Arielle > > On 12/12/12, Herrin, Amber wrote: >> Hello and good afternoon Sylvia, >> >> Does your student yet use any kind of screen reader or magnifier >> (assuming he or she may have enough vision left for that?) >> >> If your student does have some residual vision but does not yet know >> how to use any kind of screen magnifiers for the computer, can the >> student read large print? >> >> What about a raised-line drawing board? >> >> Taking these various options into consideration, here are a few >> suggestions: >> >> The student could take the test on the computer using either a screen >> reader or screen magnifier. >> The test could be produced for the student in large print and the >> student could then answer all questions by reading, using normal >> methods, only in larger print. >> The student could have the test read to them (assuming reading in >> either method on his or her own is not possible) and then use a >> raised-line drawing board for writing out using memory of the written >> letters or numbers, the way to work the problems out, or the answers >> if using a calculator. >> >> It would obviously fall to the student to know how to solve the >> problems, but depending on what the student needs, he or she could use >> a drawing board to write the problem out in equation format, or, if >> calculators are allowed, write down the answers which could then be >> written in for her by a sighted person reading the board. >> >> Alternatively, for answering, if this test is multiple-choice, the >> student could come up with the answer and then tell the reader to read >> the options, and choose the option that fits the answer already >> obtained. >> >> I sincerely hope this helps, and feel free to contact me off list if >> you have any questions about anything I've mentioned here or to ask >> any other questions I might be able to help with. >> >> Best, >> >> Amber >> >> On 12/12/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> For my career, I want to become a technology inststructor. What >>> requirements did you need to become a technology instructor? >>> were there any special classes required any classes at all? >>> Thanks for your help, >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sylvia Yasa >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:23:11 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test >>> >>> Hello guys, >>> >>> I am a technology instructor at a blindness rehabilitation center >>> in >>> the state of Maryland. I currently have a student who wants to >>> take >>> the ACT test for college admission. This test has a mathematics >>> section. >>> >>> I am very interested to know some of the techniques you use to >>> handle >>> math questions like word problems, simple equations, etc. >>> Note: my student became blind recently, so her Braille, as of >>> now, is >>> not a reliable option. >>> >>> Any input will be extremely helpful! >>> Thanks, >>> Sylvia >>> >>> Sylvia Yasa M.ed - AT >>> Assistive Technology Instructor / Specialist >>> Blind Industries and Services of Maryland >>> 3345 Washington BLVD., Baltimore, MD 21227 >>> (410) 737- 2682 >>> yasa.sylvia at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >> >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> e: herrinar at muohio.edu >> P: (513) 593-5855 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:14:27 -0800 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121213170048.01c8bec0 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Hi,, List, > > Personally, I feel most comfortable being thought > of in terms of a blind person, not a "person who > is blind" I feel it waters down a cultural, if > not a physilogical element blindness can entale. > For that reason, I am completely against > so-called people first, verbeage. I believe it > may prove to alienate us further in that by > expecting people feel they must walk on egg shells when referring to us. > Besides, too many indirect words waters down a voice already stifled. > > use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>Arielle >> >>On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> > Brandon, >> > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hello, >> >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >> >> what >> >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >> >> my >> >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >> >> to >> >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >> >> a >> >> leader as a blind person. >> >> >> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >> >> my >> >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >> >> reference >> >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> >> where >> >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >> >> end >> >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >> >> because >> >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >> >> :). >> >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >> >> them >> >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >> >> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> >> known >> >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> >> don't >> >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >> >> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >> >> to >> >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >> >> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> >> don't even notice the difference. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >> >> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> >> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >> From: LILITH Finkler >> >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >> effect?" >> >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> >> series on "person first language". >> >> >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> >> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >> >> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> >> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> >> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> >> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> >> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >> >> are ?people with disabilities.? >> >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> >> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> >> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >> >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> >> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first language >> >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH AUTISM >> >> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> >> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >> >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> >> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >> >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> >> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >> >> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> >> through language.? >> >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> >> autism. >> >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> >> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> >> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >> >> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >> >> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >> >> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> >> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >> >> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >> >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> >> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> >> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >> >> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who stutters? >> >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> >> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: This >> >> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >> >> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >> >> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >> >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> >> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use person-first >> >> language >> >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> >> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> >> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >> >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> >> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >> >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> >> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >> >> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >> >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> >> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >> >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> >> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >> >> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >> >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> >> years.? >> >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> >> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than referring >> >> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >> >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> >> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >> >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> >> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >> >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> >> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >> >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> >> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >> >> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >> >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> >> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >> >> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >> >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m talking >> >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >> >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >> >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> >> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >> >> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> >> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >> >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> >> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> >> ________________End of message________________ >> >> >> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >> >> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> >> Archives and tools are located at: >> >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >> >> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> >> page. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:45:29 -0700 > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > This is interesting. It seems clear that at least for the most part, > "person-first" expressions like people who are blind are used and > advocated by those without disabilities, while those with disabilities > prefer the "identity-first" versions such as blind people. Why the > difference? > It seems there might be at least two reasons why "outsiders" > (sighted/nondisabled) might prefer person-first language. The first is > out of a noble desire to use language that respects us and affords us > full humanity, as "people first". The second is out of a more > prejudiced desire to distance people from disabilities and to hide or > minimize characteristics that are viewed negatively. > I was discussing this with a friend who is a special education > professor (someone who trains future special ed teachers) who does not > herself have any disability. She argued that person-first language is > important because it prevents the use of offensive terms that used to > be used, such as "retards". We also talked about how euphemisms such > as "special needs" and "differently abled", though perhaps more > accurate than the word "disability", have started to take on their own > negative connotations. Personally I never really liked being called > someone with special needs, although it is funny that I don't really > object to being called a person with a disability (or a disabled > person) but when you think about it, blindness is more of a special > need than it is a disability. We aren't diminished in our abilities to > do things so much as we have different accessibility needs, etc. than > do sighted people. > It is clear that what is offensive vs. not is in the eye of the > beholder. I hope that we as blind people will start to be heard by > outsiders if we argue that we want to be called blind people instead > of people who are blind. I admit that as a "white heterosexual" I have > in the past felt awkward and uncertain about how to refer to people > who have dark skin and/or people who are sexually attracted to their > same gender. In fact I'm still not quite sure whether the term "black" > or "African-American" is more appropriate or if there is even a > consensus about that. I am, however, certain that I will only call > these and other minorities by the names they say they want to be > called. Unfortunately it seems we as blind people aren't always given > this courtesy, or perhaps we just haven't really had that conversation > with the sighted about it. It is also a shame that there is such a > disconnect between the group comprised of blind people and the group > comprised of professionals and researchers on blindness. A major part > of the disconnect is that we have been actively kept out of some of > the blindness professions and few of us have elected to initiate > blindness-related research. That is slowly changing with the LA Tech > programs and I hope our generation can continue this trend of > integration between our community and those who serve us. If we are > the ones editing the journals and setting the linguistic norms, not > only might we start being called by a name that affirms our positive > identity, but we might actually get some work done that advances our > standing in the world. > Nothing about us without us! > Arielle > > On 12/13/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi,, List, >> >> Personally, I feel most comfortable being thought >> of in terms of a blind person, not a "person who >> is blind" I feel it waters down a cultural, if >> not a physilogical element blindness can entale. >> For that reason, I am completely against >> so-called people first, verbeage. I believe it >> may prove to alienate us further in that by >> expecting people feel they must walk on egg shells when referring to us. >> Besides, too many indirect words waters down a voice already stifled. >> >> use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>>people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>>feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>>extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>>who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>>positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>>like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>>impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>>blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>>members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>>collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>>assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>>feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>>family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>>with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>>talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>>who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>>they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>>Arielle >>> >>>On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>> > Brandon, >>> > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPhone >>> > >>> > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hello, >>> >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>> >> what >>> >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy >>> >> on >>> >> my >>> >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >>> >> to >>> >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >>> >> a >>> >> leader as a blind person. >>> >> >>> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking >>> >> about >>> >> my >>> >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >>> >> reference >>> >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>> >> where >>> >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >>> >> end >>> >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >>> >> because >>> >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy >>> >> is >>> >> :). >>> >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >>> >> them >>> >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game >>> >> of >>> >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but >>> >> could >>> >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >> >>> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>> >> known >>> >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>> >> don't >>> >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >> >>> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't >>> >> need >>> >> to >>> >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >> >>> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> >> don't even notice the difference. >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> >>> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >> >>> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> >> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >> >>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> >> From: LILITH Finkler >>> >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to >>> >> what >>> >> effect?" >>> >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> >> series on "person first language". >>> >> >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association >>> >> or >>> >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> >> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >>> >> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> >> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> >> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> >> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> >> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >>> >> are ?people with disabilities.? >>> >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics >>> >> point >>> >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who >>> >> runs >>> >> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> >> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, >>> >> been >>> >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >>> >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put >>> >> to >>> >> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first >>> >> language >>> >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH >>> >> AUTISM >>> >> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> >> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has >>> >> written >>> >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> >> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >>> >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> >> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >>> >> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> >> through language.? >>> >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is >>> >> the >>> >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer >>> >> to >>> >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> >> autism. >>> >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> >> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of >>> >> diseases >>> >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> >> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if >>> >> it >>> >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>> >> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >>> >> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >>> >> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> >> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> >> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >>> >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> >> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology >>> >> enhances >>> >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> >> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> >> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who >>> >> stutters? >>> >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion >>> >> that >>> >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> >> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: >>> >> This >>> >> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >>> >> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> >> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >>> >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what >>> >> it >>> >> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use >>> >> person-first >>> >> language >>> >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> >> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> >> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the >>> >> adjectives >>> >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >>> >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> >> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >>> >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> >> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >>> >> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >>> >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> >> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> >> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >>> >> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >>> >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it >>> >> strong >>> >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> >> years.? >>> >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some >>> >> even >>> >> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than >>> >> referring >>> >> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >>> >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> >> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >>> >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> >> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >>> >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> >> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >>> >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> >> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >>> >> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >>> >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> >> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >>> >> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >>> >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m >>> >> talking >>> >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I >>> >> am >>> >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >>> >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >>> >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> >> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >>> >> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> >> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >>> >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> >> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> >> ________________End of message________________ >>> >> >>> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >> >>> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >> >>> >> Archives and tools are located at: >>> >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >> >>> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> >> page. >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:40:01 -0500 > From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: <9FF36AF0-8644-4DAE-BA84-C74049BA1209 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > that is the same thing that autistic people want. but it isn't just the > sighted world that gve us grief about it. i found that a lot of sighted > people do better wth me the some blind people. though we have a lot of the > same theories. we have the nothng about us, with out us, with the autistics > self advocacy group as the n f b. so why we can't work together, especialy > blind autistics like myself, is beyond me. a lot of the tactile techniques > that work with blind people, work with autistc people. i would love to be > understood, and work with other blind people. have to deal with both, > autism and blindness, and i would be of help, as weell as be helped. > Lavonnya > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> This is interesting. It seems clear that at least for the most part, >> "person-first" expressions like people who are blind are used and >> advocated by those without disabilities, while those with disabilities >> prefer the "identity-first" versions such as blind people. Why the >> difference? >> It seems there might be at least two reasons why "outsiders" >> (sighted/nondisabled) might prefer person-first language. The first is >> out of a noble desire to use language that respects us and affords us >> full humanity, as "people first". The second is out of a more >> prejudiced desire to distance people from disabilities and to hide or >> minimize characteristics that are viewed negatively. >> I was discussing this with a friend who is a special education >> professor (someone who trains future special ed teachers) who does not >> herself have any disability. She argued that person-first language is >> important because it prevents the use of offensive terms that used to >> be used, such as "retards". We also talked about how euphemisms such >> as "special needs" and "differently abled", though perhaps more >> accurate than the word "disability", have started to take on their own >> negative connotations. Personally I never really liked being called >> someone with special needs, although it is funny that I don't really >> object to being called a person with a disability (or a disabled >> person) but when you think about it, blindness is more of a special >> need than it is a disability. We aren't diminished in our abilities to >> do things so much as we have different accessibility needs, etc. than >> do sighted people. >> It is clear that what is offensive vs. not is in the eye of the >> beholder. I hope that we as blind people will start to be heard by >> outsiders if we argue that we want to be called blind people instead >> of people who are blind. I admit that as a "white heterosexual" I have >> in the past felt awkward and uncertain about how to refer to people >> who have dark skin and/or people who are sexually attracted to their >> same gender. In fact I'm still not quite sure whether the term "black" >> or "African-American" is more appropriate or if there is even a >> consensus about that. I am, however, certain that I will only call >> these and other minorities by the names they say they want to be >> called. Unfortunately it seems we as blind people aren't always given >> this courtesy, or perhaps we just haven't really had that conversation >> with the sighted about it. It is also a shame that there is such a >> disconnect between the group comprised of blind people and the group >> comprised of professionals and researchers on blindness. A major part >> of the disconnect is that we have been actively kept out of some of >> the blindness professions and few of us have elected to initiate >> blindness-related research. That is slowly changing with the LA Tech >> programs and I hope our generation can continue this trend of >> integration between our community and those who serve us. If we are >> the ones editing the journals and setting the linguistic norms, not >> only might we start being called by a name that affirms our positive >> identity, but we might actually get some work done that advances our >> standing in the world. >> Nothing about us without us! >> Arielle >> >> On 12/13/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Hi,, List, >>> >>> Personally, I feel most comfortable being thought >>> of in terms of a blind person, not a "person who >>> is blind" I feel it waters down a cultural, if >>> not a physilogical element blindness can entale. >>> For that reason, I am completely against >>> so-called people first, verbeage. I believe it >>> may prove to alienate us further in that by >>> expecting people feel they must walk on egg shells when referring to us. >>> Besides, too many indirect words waters down a voice already stifled. >>> >>> use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>>> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>>> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>>> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>>> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>>> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>>> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>>> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>>> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>>> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>>> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>>> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>>> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>>> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>>> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>>> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>>> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>>> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>>>> Brandon, >>>>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>>>>> what >>>>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>>>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy >>>>>> on >>>>>> my >>>>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >>>>>> to >>>>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >>>>>> a >>>>>> leader as a blind person. >>>>>> >>>>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking >>>>>> about >>>>>> my >>>>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >>>>>> reference >>>>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>>>>> where >>>>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >>>>>> end >>>>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >>>>>> because >>>>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy >>>>>> is >>>>>> :). >>>>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >>>>>> them >>>>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game >>>>>> of >>>>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but >>>>>> could >>>>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>>>>> known >>>>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>>>>> don't >>>>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>>>>> don't even notice the difference. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>>>> >>>>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>>>>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: LILITH Finkler >>>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>>>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to >>>>>> what >>>>>> effect?" >>>>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>>>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>>>>> series on "person first language". >>>>>> >>>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>>>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>>>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association >>>>>> or >>>>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>>>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>>>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>>>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>>>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>>>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>>>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>>>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>>>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>>>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>>>>> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >>>>>> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>>>>> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>>>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>>>>> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>>>>> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>>>>> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >>>>>> are ?people with disabilities.? >>>>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>>>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>>>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>>>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>>>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics >>>>>> point >>>>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>>>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>>>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>>>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who >>>>>> runs >>>>>> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>>>>> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, >>>>>> been >>>>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >>>>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put >>>>>> to >>>>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first >>>>>> language >>>>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH >>>>>> AUTISM >>>>>> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>>>>> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >>>>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>>>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has >>>>>> written >>>>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>>>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>>>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>>>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >>>>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>>>>> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>>>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >>>>>> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>>>>> through language.? >>>>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>>>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>>>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>>>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is >>>>>> the >>>>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer >>>>>> to >>>>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>>>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>>>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>>>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>>>>> autism. >>>>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>>>>> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>>>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>>>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>>>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of >>>>>> diseases >>>>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>>>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>>>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>>>>> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if >>>>>> it >>>>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>>>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>>>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>>>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >>>>>> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >>>>>> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>>>>> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >>>>>> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >>>>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>>>>> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology >>>>>> enhances >>>>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>>>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>>>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>>>>> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >>>>>> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who >>>>>> stutters? >>>>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion >>>>>> that >>>>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>>>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>>>>> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: >>>>>> This >>>>>> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>>>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>>>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >>>>>> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >>>>>> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >>>>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>>>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>>>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what >>>>>> it >>>>>> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use >>>>>> person-first >>>>>> language >>>>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>>>>> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>>>>> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>>>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the >>>>>> adjectives >>>>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >>>>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>>>>> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >>>>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>>>>> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>>>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >>>>>> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >>>>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>>>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>>>>> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >>>>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>>>>> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >>>>>> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >>>>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it >>>>>> strong >>>>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>>>>> years.? >>>>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>>>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>>>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some >>>>>> even >>>>>> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than >>>>>> referring >>>>>> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >>>>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>>>>> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >>>>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>>>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >>>>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>>>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>>>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>>>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>>>>> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >>>>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>>>>> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >>>>>> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >>>>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>>>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>>>>> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>>>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >>>>>> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >>>>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>>>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>>>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>>>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m >>>>>> talking >>>>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I >>>>>> am >>>>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>>>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >>>>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >>>>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>>>>> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >>>>>> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>>>>> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >>>>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>>>>> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>>>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>>>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>>>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>>>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>>>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>>>>> ________________End of message________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>>>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>>>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>>>>> >>>>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>>>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives and tools are located at: >>>>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>>>>> >>>>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>>>>> page. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 74, Issue 16 > ************************************** > From yasa.sylvia at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 22:31:11 2012 From: yasa.sylvia at gmail.com (Sylvia Yasa) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:31:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test Message-ID: Hi Amber, Thank you very much for this helpful information! The student is willing to take the test in large print, but we at the center are encouraging her to explore other methods as her vision is not reliable. I think the raised line drawing along with a talking/large print calculator will work for her. Where do you normally get your raised line drawing boards or kits? Thanks a lot, Sylvia On 12/13/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ACT Test (Sarah) > 2. Re: ACT Test (Herrin, Amber) > 3. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Jewel) > 4. Re: Are we blind people or people who are blind? (Carly Mihalakis) > 5. FW: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.3.1 released > (Humberto Avila) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:07:31 -0800 > From: Sarah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ACT Test > Message-ID: <50c8c80a.444b420a.2927.0cf1 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hello everyone, > For my career, I want to become a technology inststructor. What > requirements did you need to become a technology instructor? > were there any special classes required any classes at all? > Thanks for your help, > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sylvia Yasa To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:23:11 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test > > Hello guys, > > I am a technology instructor at a blindness rehabilitation center > in > the state of Maryland. I currently have a student who wants to > take > the ACT test for college admission. This test has a mathematics > section. > > I am very interested to know some of the techniques you use to > handle > math questions like word problems, simple equations, etc. > Note: my student became blind recently, so her Braille, as of > now, is > not a reliable option. > > Any input will be extremely helpful! > Thanks, > Sylvia > > Sylvia Yasa M.ed - AT > Assistive Technology Instructor / Specialist > Blind Industries and Services of Maryland > 3345 Washington BLVD., Baltimore, MD 21227 > (410) 737- 2682 > yasa.sylvia at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:49:48 -0500 > From: "Herrin, Amber" > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ACT Test > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello and good afternoon Sylvia, > > Does your student yet use any kind of screen reader or magnifier > (assuming he or she may have enough vision left for that?) > > If your student does have some residual vision but does not yet know > how to use any kind of screen magnifiers for the computer, can the > student read large print? > > What about a raised-line drawing board? > > Taking these various options into consideration, here are a few > suggestions: > > The student could take the test on the computer using either a screen > reader or screen magnifier. > The test could be produced for the student in large print and the > student could then answer all questions by reading, using normal > methods, only in larger print. > The student could have the test read to them (assuming reading in > either method on his or her own is not possible) and then use a > raised-line drawing board for writing out using memory of the written > letters or numbers, the way to work the problems out, or the answers > if using a calculator. > > It would obviously fall to the student to know how to solve the > problems, but depending on what the student needs, he or she could use > a drawing board to write the problem out in equation format, or, if > calculators are allowed, write down the answers which could then be > written in for her by a sighted person reading the board. > > Alternatively, for answering, if this test is multiple-choice, the > student could come up with the answer and then tell the reader to read > the options, and choose the option that fits the answer already > obtained. > > I sincerely hope this helps, and feel free to contact me off list if > you have any questions about anything I've mentioned here or to ask > any other questions I might be able to help with. > > Best, > > Amber > > On 12/12/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> For my career, I want to become a technology inststructor. What >> requirements did you need to become a technology instructor? >> were there any special classes required any classes at all? >> Thanks for your help, >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sylvia Yasa > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:23:11 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] ACT Test >> >> Hello guys, >> >> I am a technology instructor at a blindness rehabilitation center >> in >> the state of Maryland. I currently have a student who wants to >> take >> the ACT test for college admission. This test has a mathematics >> section. >> >> I am very interested to know some of the techniques you use to >> handle >> math questions like word problems, simple equations, etc. >> Note: my student became blind recently, so her Braille, as of >> now, is >> not a reliable option. >> >> Any input will be extremely helpful! >> Thanks, >> Sylvia >> >> Sylvia Yasa M.ed - AT >> Assistive Technology Instructor / Specialist >> Blind Industries and Services of Maryland >> 3345 Washington BLVD., Baltimore, MD 21227 >> (410) 737- 2682 >> yasa.sylvia at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Amber R. Herrin > > e: herrinar at muohio.edu > P: (513) 593-5855 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:48:56 -0500 > From: Jewel > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I'm a blink and proud of it! > > On a more serious note, I tend toward calling myself blind as much as > I call myself white or Cajun or short or stubborn. I don't want to be > a person of short stature (ok, I'm not that short, 5'3") or a person > who is white or a person with stubbornness. It sounds pretty > ridiculous to me. I think I'm in line with the people who say that > saying "person who is blind" or "person with autism" is seperating a > part of the person that can't actually be seperated. Blindness is a > part of my life as much as any other trait, and it cannot be seperated > from me. So, call me blind, call me a blind person, but don't call me > a person with blindness (that sounds sooooo awkward). > > My two cents, > Jewel > > On 12/12/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: >> There was a researcher in the blindness community of The northwest who >> sought to answer the same question. He found that blind people usually >> refer to themselves as blind people or visually impaired people And >> generally preferred that two person first language. He also found that >> sighted people, particularly professionals in the disability community, >> are >> more likely to use person first language and are more likely to prefer >> that. >> So, it would seem that this is a case of the majority telling the >> minority >> what to do in terms of how they should be calling themselves. The idea >> behind person first language is to draw attention away from a particular >> characteristic. That suggests that the characteristic is thought to be >> negative. We do not use similar linguistic structure to describe things >> that >> are neutral or positive. For that reason, I go ahead and say blind people. >> I >> think using that particular phraseology permits discussion of whether or >> not >> blindness is positive, neutral, or negative. As for me personally, I >> say >> that blindness is neutral most of the time and positive most of the time >> For >> the same reasons as Arielle. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or >>> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >>> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >>> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >>> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >>> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >>> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >>> appropriate? >>> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >>> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >>> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >>> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >>> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >>> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed >>> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >>> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >>> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >>> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >>> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >>> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>>> Brandon, >>>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>>>> what >>>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy >>>>> on >>>>> my >>>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >>>>> to >>>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >>>>> a >>>>> leader as a blind person. >>>>> >>>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking >>>>> about >>>>> my >>>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >>>>> reference >>>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>>>> where >>>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >>>>> end >>>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >>>>> because >>>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>>>> :). >>>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >>>>> them >>>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>>>> >>>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>>>> known >>>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>>>> don't >>>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>>>> >>>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>>>> >>>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>>>> don't even notice the difference. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>>> >>>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>>>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: LILITH Finkler >>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>>> effect?" >>>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>>>> series on "person first language". >>>>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>>>> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >>>>> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>>>> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>>>> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>>>> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>>>> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, there >>>>> are ?people with disabilities.? >>>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>>>> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>>>> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >>>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first language >>>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH AUTISM >>>>> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>>>> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >>>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people with >>>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>>>> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >>>>> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>>>> through language.? >>>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>>>> autism. >>>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>>>> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>>>> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >>>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >>>>> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >>>>> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>>>> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental illness >>>>> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >>>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>>>> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>>>> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >>>>> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who stutters? >>>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>>>> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: This >>>>> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are going >>>>> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >>>>> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >>>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>>>> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use person-first >>>>> language >>>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>>>> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>>>> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >>>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>>>> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >>>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>>>> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >>>>> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >>>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>>>> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left wrist >>>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>>>> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >>>>> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >>>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>>>> years.? >>>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>>>> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than referring >>>>> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >>>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>>>> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >>>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >>>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>>>> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >>>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>>>> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >>>>> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >>>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>>>> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >>>>> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >>>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m talking >>>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >>>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >>>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>>>> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >>>>> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>>>> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >>>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>>>> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>>>> ________________End of message________________ >>>>> >>>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>>>> >>>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>>> >>>>> Archives and tools are located at: >>>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>>>> >>>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>>>> page. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:07:47 -0800 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > , National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121212130715.01e63d28 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Good morning, Jewel, > > > Here Here!At 11:48 AM 12/12/2012, Jewel wrote: >>I'm a blink and proud of it! >> >>On a more serious note, I tend toward calling myself blind as much as >>I call myself white or Cajun or short or stubborn. I don't want to be >>a person of short stature (ok, I'm not that short, 5'3") or a person >>who is white or a person with stubbornness. It sounds pretty >>ridiculous to me. I think I'm in line with the people who say that >>saying "person who is blind" or "person with autism" is seperating a >>part of the person that can't actually be seperated. Blindness is a >>part of my life as much as any other trait, and it cannot be seperated >>from me. So, call me blind, call me a blind person, but don't call me >>a person with blindness (that sounds sooooo awkward). >> >>My two cents, >>Jewel >> >>On 12/12/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: >> > There was a researcher in the blindness community of The northwest who >> > sought to answer the same question. He found that blind people usually >> > refer to themselves as blind people or visually impaired people And >> > generally preferred that two person first language. He also found that >> > sighted people, particularly professionals in the disability community, >> > are >> > more likely to use person first language and >> are more likely to prefer that. >> > So, it would seem that this is a case of the majority telling the >> > minority >> > what to do in terms of how they should be calling themselves. The idea >> > behind person first language is to draw attention away from a >> > particular >> > characteristic. That suggests that the characteristic is thought to be >> > negative. We do not use similar linguistic >> structure to describe things that >> > are neutral or positive. For that reason, I >> go ahead and say blind people. I >> > think using that particular phraseology >> permits discussion of whether or not >> > blindness is positive, neutral, or negative. As for me personally, I >> > say >> > that blindness is neutral most of the time >> and positive most of the time For >> > the same reasons as Arielle. >> > >> > Respectfully, >> > Jedi >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Arielle Silverman >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or >> >> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >> >> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >> >> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >> >> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >> >> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >> >> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >> >> appropriate? >> >> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >> >> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >> >> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >> >> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >> >> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >> >> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed >> >> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >> >> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >> >> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >> >> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >> >> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >> >> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >> >> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >> >> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >> >> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >> >> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >> >> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >> >> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >> >> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >> >> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >> >> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >> >> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >> >> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >> >> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >> >> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >> >> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >> >> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >> >> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >> >> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> >>> Brandon, >> >>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >> >>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hello, >> >>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >> >>>> what >> >>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> >>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy >> >>>> on >> >>>> my >> >>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >> >>>> to >> >>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >> >>>> a >> >>>> leader as a blind person. >> >>>> >> >>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking >> >>>> about >> >>>> my >> >>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >> >>>> reference >> >>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> >>>> where >> >>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >> >>>> end >> >>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >> >>>> because >> >>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy >> >>>> is >> >>>> :). >> >>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >> >>>> them >> >>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game >> >>>> of >> >>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but >> >>>> could >> >>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >>>> >> >>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> >>>> known >> >>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> >>>> don't >> >>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >>>> >> >>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't >> >>>> need >> >>>> to >> >>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >>>> >> >>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). >> >>>> I >> >>>> don't even notice the difference. >> >>>> Thanks, >> >>>> >> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >>>> >> >>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> >>>> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >>>> >> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >>>> From: LILITH Finkler >> >>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> >>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to >> >>>> what >> >>>> effect?" >> >>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> >>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing >> >>>> a >> >>>> series on "person first language". >> >>>> >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> >>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> >>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319? 2012 Canadian Medical Association >> >>>> or >> >>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> >>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> >>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew >> >>>> up >> >>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> >>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> >>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> >>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> >>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> >>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> >>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> >>>> noticed something curious.?They changed ?clutterer? to ?person who >> >>>> clutters? all the way through,? says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> >>>> Louis? prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> >>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that >> >>>> a >> >>>> person shouldn?t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> >>>> ?person? first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> >>>> characteristic. No longer are there ?disabled people.? Instead, >> >>>> there >> >>>> are ?people with disabilities.? >> >>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> >>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> >>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> >>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> >>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics >> >>>> point >> >>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> >>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> >>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> >>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who >> >>>> runs >> >>>> the ?Disability is Natural? website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> >>>> ?People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, >> >>>> been >> >>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,? she says. ?Labels have >> >>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put >> >>>> to >> >>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.?If a person-first >> >>>> language >> >>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: ?CHILD WITH >> >>>> AUTISM >> >>>> AREA.?Image courtesy of ? 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> >>>> is a person?s most important characteristic reinforces the >> >>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> >>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has >> >>>> written >> >>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests >> >>>> that >> >>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> >>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> >>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women?s movements.?If people >> >>>> with >> >>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> >>>> they?re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> >>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,? wrote >> >>>> Snow. ?History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> >>>> through language.? >> >>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> >>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> >>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> >>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is >> >>>> the >> >>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer >> >>>> to >> >>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> >>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> >>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> >>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> >>>> autism. >> >>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> >>>> aren?t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> >>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> >>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into >> >>>> two >> >>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of >> >>>> diseases >> >>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> >>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> >>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> >>>> St. Louis? introduction to person-first language made him wonder if >> >>>> it >> >>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> >>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> >>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1?24). He found that the >> >>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as ?significantly more >> >>>> positive? in only 2% of comparisons. ?For example,? wrote St. Louis, >> >>>> ?with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> >>>> individuals (e.g., ?Moron?), terms identifying serious mental >> >>>> illness >> >>>> (?psychosis?) or dreaded diseases (?leprosy?), person-first >> >>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> >>>> reactions.?There is no evidence that person-first terminology >> >>>> enhances >> >>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet >> >>>> health >> >>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> >>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> >>>> journal if you don?t conform. In the field of speech-language >> >>>> pathology, terms such as ?person who stutters? or ?child who >> >>>> stutters? >> >>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion >> >>>> that >> >>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a >> >>>> stutterer >> >>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> >>>> ?It?s not really about sensitivity,? says St. Louis. ?It?s about: >> >>>> This >> >>>> is just the way it?s done.?Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> >>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> >>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. ?If you are >> >>>> going >> >>>> to be a jerk,? he says, ?you can be just as much of a jerk using >> >>>> person-first language as using the direct label.?Members of some >> >>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> >>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The >> >>>> National >> >>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what >> >>>> it >> >>>> perceives as ?an unholy crusade? to force everyone to use >> >>>> person-first >> >>>> language >> >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> >>>> federation?s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has >> >>>> unequivocally >> >>>> defended its right ?to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose >> >>>> is >> >>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the >> >>>> adjectives >> >>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun? >> >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> >>>> ?Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.? >> >>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> >>>> ?diabetic? is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> >>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type ?diabetic? and >> >>>> ?tattoo? into Google Images and you?ll find thousands of people with >> >>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> >>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> >>>> British Columbia, who has ?diabetic? tattooed on her inner left >> >>>> wrist >> >>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> >>>> someone called her a diabetic??No, I wouldn?t be offended,? Christie >> >>>> writes in an email. ?Diabetes is me and who I am and I don?t need to >> >>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it >> >>>> strong >> >>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> >>>> years.? >> >>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> >>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> >>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some >> >>>> even >> >>>> suggest that saying ?autistic child? is not much better than >> >>>> referring >> >>>> to someone with cancer as a ?cancerous person.? Many adults with >> >>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity >> >>>> and >> >>>> prefer to use terms such as ?autistic person.? This has been called >> >>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism >> >>>> can >> >>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn?t true, according to >> >>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> >>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> >>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> >>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> >>>> ?person with offspring? or calling a man a person ?with maleness? >> >>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate >> >>>> autism >> >>>> from personhood also ?suggests that autism is something bad ? so bad >> >>>> that it isn?t even consistent with being a person.? >> >>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying >> >>>> their >> >>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> >>>> message rather than how it?s delivered. This is the approach taken >> >>>> by >> >>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her ?journeys with >> >>>> autism? on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).?I will use >> >>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> >>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> >>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> >>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I?m >> >>>> talking >> >>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I >> >>>> am >> >>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. >> >>>> If >> >>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,? >> >>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. ?I find that people?s feelings >> >>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> >>>> language very problematic, I?ll use it with people who favor it so >> >>>> that we don?t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> >>>> away from the issue at hand.?Editor?s note: First of a multipart >> >>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> >>>> ?person?(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> >>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> >>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> >>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> >>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> >>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> >>>> ________________End of message________________ >> >>>> >> >>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre >> >>>> for >> >>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> >>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >>>> >> >>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> >>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >>>> >> >>>> Archives and tools are located at: >> >>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >>>> >> >>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this >> >>>> web >> >>>> page. >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:26:07 -0800 > From: "Humberto Avila" > To: , , , > , , > Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.3.1 released > Message-ID: <000001cdd8e9$f9bf3610$ed3da230$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org > [mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA > announcement list > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:14 PM > To: NVDA announcement mailing list > Subject: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.3.1 released > > NVDA 2012.3.1 has just been released. This release includes updates and > fixes to several translations. There are no functional changes. > > To download a copy, please visit: > http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDA2012.3.1Released > > Please consider donating to NV Access to support NVDA's continued > development: > http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate > > -- > This is the NVDA announcement mailing list. > To unsubscribe or edit your options, please visit: > http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 74, Issue 15 > ************************************** > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 22:49:27 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:49:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6FE9123F-1808-4909-A56C-E0DE801D6544@gmail.com> Ashley, It's good for what it does. It can browse the mobile versions of websites, check email, do Facebook, that sort of thing. But, if you're looking for something with serious web browsing capabilities, stay as far away from the braille note as you can. To be fair, Brill notes were built as notetakers, not personal computers. As long as you understand that your web use from the braille note will be very limited, and that you will only be able to do a few things very well, go right ahead. That's just my take on it though. All the best, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: freelists.org/lists/braillenote > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >> >> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a little slower. >> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >> Thanks for any feedback! >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 22:51:45 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:51:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ashley, Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile sites, it generally navigates around just fine. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: freelists.org/lists/braillenote > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >> >> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a little slower. >> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >> Thanks for any feedback! >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 23:39:43 2012 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:39:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ashley, You can purchase the specialized wireless card from Humanware and have it shipped to you. There is not too much to do in terms of set-up: Just insert the card into your BN, then go to Options > Connectivity > Wireless Ethernet and select Scan for Wireless Networks. As others have said, I find the web-browsing experience on the Braille Note pretty limiting and slow (even with my new Apex model) and have come to use it less and less often over the years, but it does work well for certain things, such as downloading books from Web Braille (which I believe is now integrated with BARD) and reading blindness-related publications (e.g. Braille Monitor). I also transfer files between my PC and Braille Note via email from time to time, so Internet access is useful for that purpose. It is up to you to decide whether a wireless network card purchase is a worthwhile investment. Good luck! Katie On 12/14/12, Kirt wrote: > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message > carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, > mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for > really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile > sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want to >>> investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>> little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >>> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? To >>> connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >>> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >>> work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 23:59:51 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:59:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will work fairly well. Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Ashley, Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile sites, it generally navigates around just fine. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a > braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: > freelists.org/lists/braillenote > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want to >> investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >> >> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >> little slower. >> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? To >> connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >> work better on a text site or mobile site. >> Thanks for any feedback! >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 00:01:45 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:01:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Katie, thanks. that sounds easy. I would guess these wireless cards aren't too expensive, are they? I did not realize humanware sold them. -----Original Message----- From: Katie Wang Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Hi Ashley, You can purchase the specialized wireless card from Humanware and have it shipped to you. There is not too much to do in terms of set-up: Just insert the card into your BN, then go to Options > Connectivity > Wireless Ethernet and select Scan for Wireless Networks. As others have said, I find the web-browsing experience on the Braille Note pretty limiting and slow (even with my new Apex model) and have come to use it less and less often over the years, but it does work well for certain things, such as downloading books from Web Braille (which I believe is now integrated with BARD) and reading blindness-related publications (e.g. Braille Monitor). I also transfer files between my PC and Braille Note via email from time to time, so Internet access is useful for that purpose. It is up to you to decide whether a wireless network card purchase is a worthwhile investment. Good luck! Katie On 12/14/12, Kirt wrote: > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message > carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, > mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for > really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile > sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>> to >>> investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>> little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >>> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>> To >>> connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >>> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >>> work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kramc11 at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 00:05:14 2012 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:05:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note References: Message-ID: Ashley, How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get an inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half of that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even with the network card. It is probably a better investment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will > work fairly well. > Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message > carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, > mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for > really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile > sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>> little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >>> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >>> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >>> work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 00:24:58 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <886576127D0448C8ACA7B215D01EB812@OwnerPC> but with a netbook, I have to install jaws and buy a virus security package. I just wanted something handy to browse the web while I'm out or on vacation and figured I might give the braille note a try since I have it. -----Original Message----- From: Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Ashley, How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get an inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half of that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even with the network card. It is probably a better investment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will > work fairly well. > Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message > carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, > mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for > really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile > sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>> little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >>> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >>> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >>> work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kramc11 at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 00:36:27 2012 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:36:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note References: <886576127D0448C8ACA7B215D01EB812@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, You do not have to install Jaws. You could use something like NVDA. And there are free programs lyke Malwarebytes and Microsoft security essentials that you can run to help keep your system safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > but with a netbook, I have to install jaws and buy a virus security > package. > I just wanted something handy to browse the web while I'm out or on > vacation and figured I might give the braille note a try since I have it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J. Cadigan > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > > How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get > an > inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half > of > that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even > with the network card. It is probably a better investment. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > >> oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will >> work fairly well. >> Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille >> note >> >> Ashley, >> Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message >> carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, >> mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for >> really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile >> sites, it generally navigates around just fine. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" >> wrote: >> >>> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >>> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >>> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>>> >>>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>>> little slower. >>>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will >>>> call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text >>>> based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think >>>> it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 00:49:00 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:49:00 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: <886576127D0448C8ACA7B215D01EB812@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <0E6DE3B798DF478293C2BB178EB09654@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, The Braille Note is good for going to websites and possibly reading the front page. Not much more than that. If I were you though, I'd really get down and dirty with browsing the web. How to connect is in the manual. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Ashley, You do not have to install Jaws. You could use something like NVDA. And there are free programs lyke Malwarebytes and Microsoft security essentials that you can run to help keep your system safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > but with a netbook, I have to install jaws and buy a virus security > package. > I just wanted something handy to browse the web while I'm out or on > vacation and figured I might give the braille note a try since I have it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J. Cadigan > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > > How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get > an > inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half > of > that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even > with the network card. It is probably a better investment. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > >> oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will >> work fairly well. >> Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille >> note >> >> Ashley, >> Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message >> carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, >> mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for >> really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile >> sites, it generally navigates around just fine. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" >> wrote: >> >>> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >>> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >>> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>>> >>>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>>> little slower. >>>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will >>>> call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text >>>> based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think >>>> it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 03:01:06 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:01:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: <886576127D0448C8ACA7B215D01EB812@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <00df01cdda70$6e4636a0$4ad2a3e0$@gmail.com> Hi Mark and Ashley, AVG also works, and will probably keep your computer more secure than Security Essentials. The Web site is www.avg.com. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Ashley, You do not have to install Jaws. You could use something like NVDA. And there are free programs lyke Malwarebytes and Microsoft security essentials that you can run to help keep your system safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > but with a netbook, I have to install jaws and buy a virus security > package. > I just wanted something handy to browse the web while I'm out or on > vacation and figured I might give the braille note a try since I have it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J. Cadigan > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > > How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get > an > inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half > of > that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even > with the network card. It is probably a better investment. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > >> oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will >> work fairly well. >> Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille >> note >> >> Ashley, >> Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message >> carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, >> mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for >> really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile >> sites, it generally navigates around just fine. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" >> wrote: >> >>> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >>> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >>> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>>> >>>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>>> little slower. >>>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will >>>> call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text >>>> based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think >>>> it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 03:56:29 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:56:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cdda78$2addc4c0$80994e40$@gmail.com> You will only need a network card to access the Internet on an mPower or earlier; a network card is not needed on an Apex. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Ashley, How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get an inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half of that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even with the network card. It is probably a better investment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will > work fairly well. > Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message > carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, > mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for > really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile > sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>> little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >>> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >>> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >>> work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 03:57:37 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:57:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000101cdda78$53c20f90$fb462eb0$@gmail.com> I completely agree and find myself using my BrailleNote less and less for Internet-related things. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Katie, thanks. that sounds easy. I would guess these wireless cards aren't too expensive, are they? I did not realize humanware sold them. -----Original Message----- From: Katie Wang Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Hi Ashley, You can purchase the specialized wireless card from Humanware and have it shipped to you. There is not too much to do in terms of set-up: Just insert the card into your BN, then go to Options > Connectivity > Wireless Ethernet and select Scan for Wireless Networks. As others have said, I find the web-browsing experience on the Braille Note pretty limiting and slow (even with my new Apex model) and have come to use it less and less often over the years, but it does work well for certain things, such as downloading books from Web Braille (which I believe is now integrated with BARD) and reading blindness-related publications (e.g. Braille Monitor). I also transfer files between my PC and Braille Note via email from time to time, so Internet access is useful for that purpose. It is up to you to decide whether a wireless network card purchase is a worthwhile investment. Good luck! Katie On 12/14/12, Kirt wrote: > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your > message carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text > only sites, mobile sites, or. If you have to do other things with it, > be prepared for really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on > text only or mobile sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I >>> want to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; >>> its an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may >>> be a little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will >>> call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know >>> which wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>> To >>> connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it >>> scans for a spot? I'm thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot >>> areas such as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it >>> cannot handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle >>> text based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would >>> think it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail >>> .com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >> gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai > l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 18:12:06 2012 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 13:12:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note In-Reply-To: <000101cdda78$53c20f90$fb462eb0$@gmail.com> References: <000101cdda78$53c20f90$fb462eb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, I don't remember how much a wireless network card costs, but you should be able to find out easily by calling Humanware and speaking to someone from Customer Services. Good luck! Katie On 12/14/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > I completely agree and find myself using my BrailleNote less and less for > Internet-related things. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley > Bramlett > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Katie, > thanks. that sounds easy. I would guess these wireless cards aren't too > expensive, are they? > I did not realize humanware sold them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Katie Wang > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:39 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Hi Ashley, > > You can purchase the specialized wireless card from Humanware and have it > shipped to you. There is not too much to do in terms of set-up: > Just insert the card into your BN, then go to Options > Connectivity > > Wireless Ethernet and select Scan for Wireless Networks. As others have > said, I find the web-browsing experience on the Braille Note pretty > limiting > and slow (even with my new Apex model) and have come to use it less and > less > often over the years, but it does work well for certain things, such as > downloading books from Web Braille (which I believe is now integrated with > BARD) and reading blindness-related publications (e.g. Braille Monitor). I > also transfer files between my PC and Braille Note via email from time to > time, so Internet access is useful for that purpose. It is up to you to > decide whether a wireless network card purchase is a worthwhile investment. > Good luck! > > Katie > > > On 12/14/12, Kirt wrote: >> Ashley, >> Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your >> message carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text >> only sites, mobile sites, or. If you have to do other things with it, >> be prepared for really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on >> text only or mobile sites, it generally navigates around just fine. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" >> wrote: >> >>> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >>> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >>> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I >>>> want to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>>> >>>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; >>>> its an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may >>>> be a little slower. >>>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will >>>> call humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know >>>> which wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too > specific. >>>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>>> To >>>> connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it >>>> scans for a spot? I'm thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot >>>> areas such as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it >>>> cannot handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle >>>> text based sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would >>>> think it would work better on a text site or mobile site. >>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail >>>> .com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai >> l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From member at linkedin.com Sat Dec 15 22:26:56 2012 From: member at linkedin.com (Cody Bair via LinkedIn) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:26:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <891870029.5687031.1355610416406.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2319.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Cody Bair requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Eric, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Cody Accept invitation from Cody Bair http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-harbfvnx-4c/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I413802133_11/3wOtCVFbmdxnSVFbm8JrnpKqlZJrmZzbmNJpjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP4NnPcPcj8Me3cNd4ALpSRIk3lyszwLdjoRcjwQc3oMc34LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1cgep2frbyLRw1 View profile of Cody Bair http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-harbfvnx-4c/rso/221151968/ltIe/name/85813888_I413802133_11/?hs=false&tok=2bpQhdFGjyLRw1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-harbfvnx-4c/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=1SJynpz1PyLRw1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 22:49:23 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 16:49:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Message-ID: <50ccfe9a.0128650a.2371.ffff9da1@mx.google.com> A wireless card usually costs about $80. ----- Original Message ----- From: Katie Wang wrote: I completely agree and find myself using my BrailleNote less and less for Internet-related things. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Katie, thanks. that sounds easy. I would guess these wireless cards aren't too expensive, are they? I did not realize humanware sold them. -----Original Message----- From: Katie Wang Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Hi Ashley, You can purchase the specialized wireless card from Humanware and have it shipped to you. There is not too much to do in terms of set-up: Just insert the card into your BN, then go to Options > Connectivity Wireless Ethernet and select Scan for Wireless Networks. As others have said, I find the web-browsing experience on the Braille Note pretty limiting and slow (even with my new Apex model) and have come to use it less and less often over the years, but it does work well for certain things, such as downloading books from Web Braille (which I believe is now integrated with BARD) and reading blindness-related publications (e.g. Braille Monitor). I also transfer files between my PC and Braille Note via email from time to time, so Internet access is useful for that purpose. It is up to you to decide whether a wireless network card purchase is a worthwhile investment. Good luck! Katie On 12/14/12, Kirt wrote: Ashley, Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, mobile sites, or. If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile sites, it generally navigates around just fine. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: freelists.org/lists/braillenote Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" We have been asked to circulate this ... Dave >Would you mind forwarding the following to NFB members? It is a survey >opportunity for a study going on in the lab I work in at the >University of Washington. Thanks so much. > >Cindy > >Subject: Fill out a quick, 10 to 15 minute survey about how you >navigate with your smart phone. > >Fill out the MeetUp Survey Today! > >Help us create an awesome app that will assist you with meeting up >with friends. > >A research team at the University of Washington is investigating how >useful an app will be. This app is called MeetUp, and it will allow 2 >people to leave different places and to meet up in a location between >both of them. This app will use GPS technology and update in realtime >so that the route is continuously efficient. > >We are interested in blind and sighted users in completing a simple, >secure, and confidential online survey about this app that will take >only 10 to 15 minutes. Participants must be at least 18 years old and >proficient with smart phones. > >Go to >https://catalyst.uw.edu/webq/survey/narakim/183043 >to fill out the survey now! > >The last page includes an opportunity to enter a drawing for some >Amazon gift cards. > >Thank you, and please direct any questions about our research to >Professor Richard Ladner, ladner at cs.washington.edu, or to my work >email at bennec3 at uw.edu. > > >-- >Cindy Bennett >B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > >clb5590 at gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 02:43:03 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 21:43:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online In-Reply-To: <3250D4D4DED84891938AC1FD3CB47513@OwnerPC> References: <3250D4D4DED84891938AC1FD3CB47513@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <004701cddb37$12aa0930$37fe1b90$@gmail.com> Hi Ashley, For streaming on the PC, I would recommend www.tunein.com. If you have an iOS device, TuneIn also has a very accessible app called TuneIn Radio. On the BrailleNote, I use www.tuned.mobi. Keep in mind that the BrailleNote will only play those streams which are in MP3 or WMP3 format. Unfortunately, the BrailleNote won't play streams which are in AAC or Flash format at this time. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Hi all, What streaming websites do you like? Can you navigate them okay? I wanted to know what your experience has been with streaming audio on your notetaker and computer. What websites do you use? How accessible are they? What type of music is offered? Also, do you pay a subscription and how often? I know some websites offer radio service online and thought that might be an option via the notetaker as well. How cool it would be to listen to radio or music wirelessly on campus, at a café, or a hotel. Thanks. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 05:09:34 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 23:09:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the read2go app question Message-ID: <627791B9-BE39-4998-AC89-B62883FC12F4@gmail.com> for anyone who has used the read2go app from bookshare: what exactly is the limit of books that can be stored on the bookshelf, and why is there a limit? Could you upload books onto the IDevice and sync them through itunes that way to get more books? From herrinar at muohio.edu Sun Dec 16 16:05:19 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 11:05:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the read2go app question In-Reply-To: <627791B9-BE39-4998-AC89-B62883FC12F4@gmail.com> References: <627791B9-BE39-4998-AC89-B62883FC12F4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello and good morning Valerie, I use Read2Go, and currently have 69 books on my shelf. I am certain there are those who have more on their shelf than me, but I can't think ever having seen anyone say that they were told they couldn't download another book or something. You certainly are limited by the space on your phone, but beyond that, I'm not really sure that you are. Maybe someone else has some more input here. HTH, Amber On 12/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: > for anyone who has used the read2go app from bookshare: > what exactly is the limit of books that can be stored on the bookshelf, and > why is there a limit? Could you upload books onto the IDevice and sync them > through itunes that way to get more books? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 17:27:45 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 11:27:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the read2go app question In-Reply-To: References: <627791B9-BE39-4998-AC89-B62883FC12F4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I currently have 12 books on my bookshelf. When i try to download another, it seems to download then says, "No available storage. Try removing titles from bookshelf". My iphone is only half full of data, so it can't be that. Guess i'll google around, and I'll see if I can't find a solution that way, if no one gets back to me. Thank you for your help thus far. :) On Dec 16, 2012, at 10:05 AM, "Herrin, Amber" wrote: > Hello and good morning Valerie, > > I use Read2Go, and currently have 69 books on my shelf. I am certain > there are those who have more on their shelf than me, but I can't > think ever having seen anyone say that they were told they couldn't > download another book or something. You certainly are limited by the > space on your phone, but beyond that, I'm not really sure that you > are. > > Maybe someone else has some more input here. > > HTH, > > Amber > > On 12/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> for anyone who has used the read2go app from bookshare: >> what exactly is the limit of books that can be stored on the bookshelf, and >> why is there a limit? Could you upload books onto the IDevice and sync them >> through itunes that way to get more books? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Amber R. Herrin > > e: herrinar at muohio.edu > P: (513) 593-5855 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 17:39:41 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 11:39:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the read2go app question In-Reply-To: References: <627791B9-BE39-4998-AC89-B62883FC12F4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D913DC7-3954-4049-96E7-E295241463E1@gmail.com> update, I tried to open the last book i donwloaded, and got a warning to verify the file type, so apparently Read2go couldn't read it. After that dialog disappeared, Voiceover sort of crashed, and I had to lock the screen, unlock it, and was taken back to the home screen. apon trying to get back into the app, I learned that I had to reset all my settings. doing that now. Will see if it works this time. Hopefully I did not lose my books. … and now, it would appear is I can download books again... On Dec 16, 2012, at 10:05 AM, "Herrin, Amber" wrote: > Hello and good morning Valerie, > > I use Read2Go, and currently have 69 books on my shelf. I am certain > there are those who have more on their shelf than me, but I can't > think ever having seen anyone say that they were told they couldn't > download another book or something. You certainly are limited by the > space on your phone, but beyond that, I'm not really sure that you > are. > > Maybe someone else has some more input here. > > HTH, > > Amber > > On 12/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> for anyone who has used the read2go app from bookshare: >> what exactly is the limit of books that can be stored on the bookshelf, and >> why is there a limit? Could you upload books onto the IDevice and sync them >> through itunes that way to get more books? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Amber R. Herrin > > e: herrinar at muohio.edu > P: (513) 593-5855 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 16 22:53:22 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:53:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: An Immersion into Windows 8 with JAWS for Windows now available Message-ID: > >An Immersion into Windows 8 with JAWS for Windows is now available. To >review the table of contents and purchase your copy, please visit: >http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/win8-jfw.htm > > > >If you have any questions or comments, I invite you to contact me. > > > >CathyAnne > > > >CathyAnne Murtha > >Director > >Access Technology Institute > >cathy at blindtraining.com > >www.blindtraining.com > >Twitter: www.twitter.com/AccessTechInst > > >Facebook: www.facebook.com/blindtraining.com > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Sun Dec 16 23:41:03 2012 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:41:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas travel tips Message-ID: Hi, all. I thought it woul be a good idea to ask what travel tips would be good for Chritmas vacation and after. Flying, busses, and so on should be covered in all the tips. I'm flying actually, and looking forward to it. Thanks. Beth From zdreicer at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 23:55:55 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:55:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas travel tips In-Reply-To: <50ce5c81.07562b0a.6c06.ffffc07bSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <50ce5c81.07562b0a.6c06.ffffc07bSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey Beth! I've been meaning to call you, I haven't forgotten about you! There is a great article in access world a few issues back, you might look for that. Your origination airport has three terminals, plus the main terminal. You will have to take a train from Just passed the security checkpoint to your final gate. I have a recording of the train I mentioned, if you've never ridden it and want to hear it before you get on). Southwest airlines leaves from terminal C; United from terminal B; frontier and most other airlines from terminal a. If you need specifics about your airport, call me, you have my number! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 16, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Beth Taurasi wrote: > Hi, all. > I thought it woul be a good idea to ask what travel tips would be good for Chritmas vacation and after. Flying, busses, and so on should be covered in all the tips. I'm flying actually, and looking forward to it. > Thanks. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 03:16:22 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:16:22 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Message-ID: <50ce8eba.a3c9440a.4a77.17f6@mx.google.com> Hello, Once=20you=20have=20the=20card,=20you=20go=20to=20the=20Connectivity=20menu= =20and=20go=20to=20 create=20a=20new=20dial-up=20or=20lan=20connection=20and=20choose=20Wireles= s=20from=20 the=20options.=20=20If=20you=20know=20the=20Wep=20key=20it's=20very=20easy.= =20=20It=20should=20 be=20about=2016=20digits. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20 ***To David Andrews Who Will No Doubt Take Issue With This Message And Anyone Else Who Finds This Upsetting, I do apologize. But Christmas is my favorite time of the year, and through my radio work and our fund raiser we're doing for Make A Wish, I want to share that spirit and love of Christmas with others; the love my mom instilled in me of this holiday. I think of my mom who passed away in 2003 most during this time. If you have no interest in this message then please delete it, but I hope you will read it, share it with any friends of yours you think would be interested, and join me for some holiday warmth and cheer! Hello Everyone! The Christmas season is here at last, and we'ree ready to rock around the virtual Christmas tree and have a blast! I along with my friends at Audio Access FM invite you to attend our four hour virtual Christmas party, taking place tomorrow, Monday, December 17, 2012 starting at 7 PM eastern and going until 11 PM eastern. Whether you're rapping presents, decorating your tree, or just looking for some holiday fun, join us as we.... Talk about Santa's different modes of transporting gifts to homes all over the country and world. Explore how different places celebrate Christmas Hear some of your traditional and maybe not so traditional Christmas classics, along with the songs you can't go a single holiday season without hearing at least once Find out just how well a computer can sing a Christmas song Record a holiday greeting for the general listening audience or for that special someone or group of people in your life and have it heard throughout the show. Simply call 1-832-999-8883 to record your greeting or you can attach it to an email sent to david at audioaccessfm.com Hear who, by donating to our Make A Wish Fund Raiser, will be taking home some prizes and what prizes are given out. The fund raiser closes at 8 PM eastern on the 17th, the second hour of our party, so if you'd like your chance at a prize, one of which is a 90 dollar amazon gift card, and that total might go up, go to http://is.gd/XDf6ce to learn moore and to help us make a child's christmas a little better by donating to Make A Wish. And of course, we'll play any holiday requests if you have them. These Djd Invasion holiday parties are some of my favorite events to host each year and to share with you the listener and with friends, and part of that is your ability to interact with us during the show. To say hello during the party, you can either Email Djd at daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com follow David's personal twitter at djdrocks or the station twitter at audioaccessfm Skype in at audio.accessfm or call in at 516 324 2314 These Christmas parties are a blast, and we really want to make your spirits a little brighter by sharing our love of this time of year with you, so to be there, at any time between 7 PM and 11 PM eastern, go to http://www.audioaccessfm.com to tune in. Hope to see you there, and wishing all of you reading this a very safe and happy holiday season! From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 06:47:28 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 23:47:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas travel tips In-Reply-To: <50ce5c81.a7be320a.3bf6.ffff8b37SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <50ce5c81.a7be320a.3bf6.ffff8b37SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <323EF7C3-CCD5-4326-80C8-6EE66B006207@gmail.com> Beth I think people overcomplicate airports sometimes. For me, knowing that general layout of an airport beforehand is good… But I think it can be harmful to get so bogged down in a little details that don't really matter. As long as I know where IM, and as long as I know where my plane is leaving from, I don't really have too much trouble asking directions to places along the way… Breaking it up into smaller steps is very good, in my experience, when you're asking for directions from people. For example, let's say you are in terminal a and you were looking for gate C7. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to ask random strangers where gate C7 is. You could, however, ask about how you get from concourse to concourse, and that's where it's a little bit helpful to have a general layout of the airport in your head before. That way you kind of know if you have to take a train, or if you can walk between the terminals, or what. But anyways, getting back to my example. You ask someone how to move between concourses instead of asking where gate C7 is. That way, oh well – intentioned stranger is a lot less likely to follow you around all over the place. Anyways, now you are on the train… Or the hallway between concourses, however your specific airport is set up. You can now either ask where Concourse C is, or maybe it would be a better idea to just walk to the next concourse and see which one it is… That way you can kind of figure out a pattern. If you are taking a train between concourses instead of walking, which you have to do sometimes, it will usually announced every time it stops what terminal you are at and what airlines arrive and depart from there. So you find the right terminal. The terminal can be arranged in a circle, with gates radiating off of it like spokes from a wheel. Alternatively, your terminal might be arranged like a really long hallway, with the gates on either side. You can either walk around, and ask people questions like what gate you are at and what the next gate is on either side, or you can just ask somebody to explain the layout of the place… I prefer the former option, but that's just me. Anyways, when you figured out how your terminal is set up, it's usually not that hard to find the specific gate you need. You can just ask people what gate you are at as needed. Anyways, once you are there, just wait for your flight and enjoy! If you have the time, why not go explore and figure out what else is around you… I usually like to find the closest fast food restaurant if I have a chance. :-) I haven't really talked about security, but the same principles apply… If you just ask people where the security checkpoint is, once you know you are in your right terminal, you should be fine. It's all about breaking it up into baby steps, as much as possible, when you are asking for directions… It's usually best to ask people to give you directions to things that they can see, whenever that's possible. For example, don't ask for the security checkpoint in terminal D when you are in terminal a. Instead ask where you go to move between terminals, then from there find your right terminal, and only once you are there ask for the security checkpoint in that specific concourse. Oh, and the airport people often ask you if you need assistance, and they will just drop you off where you need to go. My dad saw Dr. Maurer Getting around our local airport this way, so I don't think there is any shame in it at all. I, personally, only do that as a last resort if I am running very late… But whatever works best for you is totally Fine with me… If you prefer to accept the assistance from airport staff, more power to you. I just like doing it independently because I know I am capable And I enjoy the chance to explore. Anyways, I hope that helped, and didn't just make you more confused. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Beth Taurasi wrote: > Hi, all. > I thought it woul be a good idea to ask what travel tips would be good for Chritmas vacation and after. Flying, busses, and so on should be covered in all the tips. I'm flying actually, and looking forward to it. > Thanks. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:52:15 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:52:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Accept My Condolences Message-ID: <50cf31d0.0128650a.2371.ffffb12b@mx.google.com> Dear Nabs Members, I'm sure you have all beard about the tragic shooting that took place at an elementary school in Conneticut on Friday. I have spent the weekend and today thinking about the victims who linst their lives in this tragic shooting. None of these victims will ever be forgotten. I cannot imagine the pain that each family must be hoing through. I am praying for them all. From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Mon Dec 17 15:04:37 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:04:37 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Accept My Condolences In-Reply-To: <50cf31d0.0128650a.2371.ffffb12b@mx.google.com> References: <50cf31d0.0128650a.2371.ffffb12b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: This is a great post. That could have been a college, and it could have been us, but it was the grace of God that has protected us. I will say this on here though. This is to all Braille notetaker users that use their devices to reply to, or send E-mails to the list, please make sure that you get the actual letters and spelling correct. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Roanna Baccchus [rbacchus228 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 8:52 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Please Accept My Condolences Dear Nabs Members, I'm sure you have all heard about the tragic shooting that took place at an elementary school in Conneticutt on Friday. I have spent the weekend and today thinking about the victims who lost their lives in this tragic shooting. None of these victims will ever be forgotten. I cannot imagine the pain that each family must be going through. I am praying for them all. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 22:25:53 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:25:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas travel tips In-Reply-To: <323EF7C3-CCD5-4326-80C8-6EE66B006207@gmail.com> References: <50ce5c81.a7be320a.3bf6.ffff8b37SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <323EF7C3-CCD5-4326-80C8-6EE66B006207@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would encourage anyone who has airport questions to check out the list archives where this topic has been discussed several times. I also recently found an iPhone app called FlySmart which is very helpful and almost fully accessible. You can use it to find the gate where your flight is leaving from and flight status info (whether or not it is delayed) as well as a list of shops and restaurants in the concourse where your gate is located. They also have airport maps which I assume are not accessible, but the restaurant listings are straightforward and very helpful especially if going to a less familiar airport. I find the toughest part of airport navigation is finding where to check in. I get around this by either printing my boarding pass at home, if I am not checking any bags, or using curbside checkpoints at the curb in front of the terminal entrance if I am checking bags. Some airlines do not have curbside check-in, but most do and a cab or shuttle driver should know where they are. If you are walking or taking a bus to the airport, you may need to ask a few people for directions to curbside since some people won't know what you are talking about and will try to take you inside to check in, but persistence pays off. Anyway, once you have your boarding pass you can get directions to security and then to the gate, or get assistance, whichever you prefer. As for buses, Beth, I'm not sure if you are asking about local transit or buses to get between cities. One resource that's great for planning a local transit route is Google Maps. You can go to maps.google.com click "get directions" and type in your starting and ending addresses. You will get driving directions, but then click "by public transit" and tell it when you want to leave. If a city bus is available Google Maps will give you the scheduling and route information. Best, Arielle On 12/16/12, Kirt wrote: > Beth I think people overcomplicate airports sometimes. For me, knowing that > general layout of an airport beforehand is good… But I think it can be > harmful to get so bogged down in a little details that don't really matter. > As long as I know where IM, and as long as I know where my plane is leaving > from, I don't really have too much trouble asking directions to places along > the way… Breaking it up into smaller steps is very good, in my experience, > when you're asking for directions from people. For example, let's say you > are in terminal a and you were looking for gate C7. It probably wouldn't be > a good idea to ask random strangers where gate C7 is. You could, however, > ask about how you get from concourse to concourse, and that's where it's a > little bit helpful to have a general layout of the airport in your head > before. That way you kind of know if you have to take a train, or if you can > walk between the terminals, or what. But anyways, getting back to my > example. You ask someone how to move between concourses instead of asking > where gate C7 is. That way, oh well – intentioned stranger is a lot less > likely to follow you around all over the place. Anyways, now you are on the > train… Or the hallway between concourses, however your specific airport is > set up. You can now either ask where Concourse C is, or maybe it would be a > better idea to just walk to the next concourse and see which one it is… That > way you can kind of figure out a pattern. If you are taking a train between > concourses instead of walking, which you have to do sometimes, it will > usually announced every time it stops what terminal you are at and what > airlines arrive and depart from there. So you find the right terminal. The > terminal can be arranged in a circle, with gates radiating off of it like > spokes from a wheel. Alternatively, your terminal might be arranged like a > really long hallway, with the gates on either side. You can either walk > around, and ask people questions like what gate you are at and what the next > gate is on either side, or you can just ask somebody to explain the layout > of the place… I prefer the former option, but that's just me. Anyways, when > you figured out how your terminal is set up, it's usually not that hard to > find the specific gate you need. You can just ask people what gate you are > at as needed. Anyways, once you are there, just wait for your flight and > enjoy! If you have the time, why not go explore and figure out what else is > around you… I usually like to find the closest fast food restaurant if I > have a chance. :-) I haven't really talked about security, but the same > principles apply… If you just ask people where the security checkpoint is, > once you know you are in your right terminal, you should be fine. It's all > about breaking it up into baby steps, as much as possible, when you are > asking for directions… It's usually best to ask people to give you > directions to things that they can see, whenever that's possible. For > example, don't ask for the security checkpoint in terminal D when you are in > terminal a. Instead ask where you go to move between terminals, then from > there find your right terminal, and only once you are there ask for the > security checkpoint in that specific concourse. Oh, and the airport people > often ask you if you need assistance, and they will just drop you off where > you need to go. My dad saw Dr. Maurer Getting around our local airport this > way, so I don't think there is any shame in it at all. I, personally, only > do that as a last resort if I am running very late… But whatever works best > for you is totally Fine with me… If you prefer to accept the assistance from > airport staff, more power to you. I just like doing it independently because > I know I am capable And I enjoy the chance to explore. Anyways, I hope that > helped, and didn't just make you more confused. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Beth Taurasi > wrote: > >> Hi, all. >> I thought it woul be a good idea to ask what travel tips would be good for >> Chritmas vacation and after. Flying, busses, and so on should be covered >> in all the tips. I'm flying actually, and looking forward to it. >> Thanks. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Tue Dec 18 01:03:12 2012 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:03:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas travel tips Message-ID: Some people take Greyhound, but I've found it to be too expenssive to go between states, but I take planes between states because it's not so ... I don't know a good word for it. Tiring? Exhautive? I'll check out the list archives, and thanks for the app info. I'll download this app. I it free? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Beth I think people overcomplicate airports sometimes. For me, knowing that general layout of an airport beforehand is good But I think it can be harmful to get so bogged down in a little details that don't really matter. As long as I know where IM, and as long as I know where my plane is leaving from, I don't really have too much trouble asking directions to places along the way Breaking it up into smaller steps is very good, in my experience, when you're asking for directions from people. For example, let's say you are in terminal a and you were looking for gate C7. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to ask random strangers where gate C7 is. You could, however, ask about how you get from concourse to concourse, and that's where it's a little bit helpful to have a general layout of the airport in your head before. That way you kind of know if you have to take a train, or if you can walk between the terminals, or what. But anyways, getting back to my example. You ask someone how to move between concourses instead of asking where gate C7 is. That way, oh well – intentioned stranger is a lot less likely to follow you around all over the place. Anyways, now you are on the train Or the hallway between concourses, however your specific airport is set up. You can now either ask where Concourse C is, or maybe it would be a better idea to just walk to the next concourse and see which one it is That way you can kind of figure out a pattern. If you are taking a train between concourses instead of walking, which you have to do sometimes, it will usually announced every time it stops what terminal you are at and what airlines arrive and depart from there. So you find the right terminal. The terminal can be arranged in a circle, with gates radiating off of it like spokes from a wheel. Alternatively, your terminal might be arranged like a really long hallway, with the gates on either side. You can either walk around, and ask people questions like what gate you are at and what the next gate is on either side, or you can just ask somebody to explain the layout of the place I prefer the former option, but that's just me. Anyways, when you figured out how your terminal is set up, it's usually not that hard to find the specific gate you need. You can just ask people what gate you are at as needed. Anyways, once you are there, just wait for your flight and enjoy! If you have the time, why not go explore and figure out what else is around you I usually like to find the closest fast food restaurant if I have a chance. :-) I haven't really talked about security, but the same principles apply If you just ask people where the security checkpoint is, once you know you are in your right terminal, you should be fine. It's all about breaking it up into baby steps, as much as possible, when you are asking for directions It's usually best to ask people to give you directions to things that they can see, whenever that's possible. For example, don't ask for the security checkpoint in terminal D when you are in terminal a. Instead ask where you go to move between terminals, then from there find your right terminal, and only once you are there ask for the security checkpoint in that specific concourse. Oh, and the airport people often ask you if you need assistance, and they will just drop you off where you need to go. My dad saw Dr. Maurer Getting around our local airport this way, so I don't think there is any shame in it at all. I, personally, only do that as a last resort if I am running very late But whatever works best for you is totally Fine with me If you prefer to accept the assistance from airport staff, more power to you. I just like doing it independently because I know I am capable And I enjoy the chance to explore. Anyways, I hope that helped, and didn't just make you more confused. :-) Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Beth Taurasi References: <000001cdda78$2addc4c0$80994e40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7BCC36405FCB4DB5BC2A51FE98C49689@OwnerPC> Chris, true, but as I said before, I have an empower and its unlikely I can buy a new braille note due to the expense. Rehab won't buy new equipment unless you have a job offer and say you need it for work. with budget cuts, I do not anticipate getting much help from rehab next year. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 10:56 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note You will only need a network card to access the Internet on an mPower or earlier; a network card is not needed on an Apex. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note Ashley, How much does human ware charge for a network card. Remember, you can get an inexpensive net book for under $300 and I have seen them on sail for half of that. A net book will allow u to do far more than the Braille note, even with the network card. It is probably a better investment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > oh good, so if the website has a text only or mobile version, it will > work fairly well. > Do you find that you can fill out forms with it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] connecting to the internet service on a braille note > > Ashley, > Sorry for the double post, but it seems that I didn't read your message > carefully enough the first time around. Yes, stick with text only sites, > mobile sites, or… If you have to do other things with it, be prepared for > really slow Loading And lots of confusion. But, on text only or mobile > sites, it generally navigates around just fine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > >> I have connected mine seamlessly when I had an MPower. You can join a >> braille note list to discuss anything braille note at the following URL: >> freelists.org/lists/braillenote >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Now that I have some time coming up as the semester winds down, I want >>> to investigate connecting my braille note to the internet! >>> >>> I am considering getting wireless connectivity for my braille note; its >>> an empower, but I heard it still will connect wirelessly but may be a >>> little slower. >>> What has been your experience connecting wirelessly? I guess I will call >>> humanware to inquire how to set it up because I do not know which >>> wireless card I need. I read the user manual, but its not too specific. >>> How was the setup process? Was it easy once you got the wireless card? >>> To connect to a wireless router, do you simply go to connectivity under >>> options menu and choose the wireless ethernet option and then it scans >>> for a spot? I’m thinking this is beneficial in wi-fi hotspot areas such >>> as cafes, Starbucks and hotels. >>> Also, which websites work best on a braille note? I imagine it cannot >>> handle sites with lots of graphics and frames. Will it handle text based >>> sites best? Some sites offer a text only site and I would think it would >>> work better on a text site or mobile site. >>> Thanks for any feedback! >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 05:38:23 2012 From: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com (McMahon, Cory J) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:38:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes Message-ID: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Dear all, I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then major in Public Policy. Sincerely, Cory McMahon From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 06:11:31 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 22:11:31 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: Hello, Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter is done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if there is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes Dear all, I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then major in Public Policy. Sincerely, Cory McMahon _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From juanitatighan at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 12:37:55 2012 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 07:37:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: <893A8BB4-D8B0-433B-8D48-85FE3256B4C7@gmail.com> Well, don't sell the lectures. Make sure if you have an office of disability services to have that puton the form that you be allowed to record classes. Be prepared to take notsm though If you just let the lecture get recorded, it's easy to loose focus--trust me, I know from experience. Jane On Dec 18, 2012, at 12:38 AM, "McMahon, Cory J" wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. > > Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? > > My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then major in Public Policy. > > Sincerely, > > Cory McMahon > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 12:46:03 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 07:46:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: Hi when it comes to recording your classes you can have this request put on your accommodation letters for all your classes. When I recorded my lectures my teachers did not mind because I had this request on my accomodation letters good luck with your studies. On Dec 18, 2012 1:18 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you > record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter is > done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if there > is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is > delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes > > Dear all, > > I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the > Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. > > Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? > > My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then > major in Public Policy. > > Sincerely, > > Cory McMahon > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From bb131993 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 18 15:49:36 2012 From: bb131993 at yahoo.com (Bethany Bennington) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 10:49:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: Cory, Most university's allow one to record lectures. However, some require an accommodation prior to doing so. What will you be recording on? Also, it is a good idea to intermingle your major course work with your general education requirement so that you have fillers. What advisors call gap cushions. So that you do not get stuck taking three major courses together that are difficult ad time consuming. For example, taking your higher level debate class (for public policy) pair with an easy physical education required course. Each one benefits the other. Any who that is my advise. I hope it works well fr you! By the way where were you hoping to go? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:46 AM, tiffany miles wrote: > Hi when it comes to recording your classes you can have this request put on > your accommodation letters for all your classes. When I recorded my > lectures my teachers did not mind because I had this request on my > accomodation letters good luck with your studies. > On Dec 18, 2012 1:18 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you >> record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter is >> done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if there >> is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is >> delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J >> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM >> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; >> Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes >> >> Dear all, >> >> I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the >> Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. >> >> Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? >> >> My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then >> major in Public Policy. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Cory McMahon >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> qtiffany1%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bb131993%40yahoo.com From cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 15:55:00 2012 From: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com (McMahon, Cory J) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 09:55:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: Thanks for the information below. I intend Community college to my general Education courses, and then go to a University for the Public Policy portion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bethany Bennington" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording college classes > Cory, > Most university's allow one to record lectures. However, some require an > accommodation prior to doing so. What will you be recording on? Also, it > is a good idea to intermingle your major course work with your general > education requirement so that you have fillers. What advisors call gap > cushions. So that you do not get stuck taking three major courses together > that are difficult ad time consuming. For example, taking your higher > level debate class (for public policy) pair with an easy physical > education required course. Each one benefits the other. > > Any who that is my advise. I hope it works well fr you! By the way where > were you hoping to go? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:46 AM, tiffany miles wrote: > >> Hi when it comes to recording your classes you can have this request put >> on >> your accommodation letters for all your classes. When I recorded my >> lectures my teachers did not mind because I had this request on my >> accomodation letters good luck with your studies. >> On Dec 18, 2012 1:18 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you >>> record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter is >>> done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if >>> there >>> is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is >>> delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J >>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM >>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the >>> Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. >>> >>> Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? >>> >>> My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then >>> major in Public Policy. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Cory McMahon >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bb131993%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cory.j.mcmahon%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Tue Dec 18 16:18:41 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 16:18:41 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problems! Message-ID: I have an Acer lap top that I've had since 2009. I'm running Internet Explorer 8, and I have Jaws 10. BTW, I'm using Windows Vista, (I was booed for that at the Jaws seminar, this year.) Last tuesday, my DSO and I were trying to update Jaws, and put Jaws 11.0 on my computer. When we tried that, my computer rejected it, and treated it as if it were a virus! I don't understand why it would do that. What do you know? Thanks, Joshua From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Thu Dec 13 05:41:18 2012 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:41:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> Message-ID: <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> Hi everyone, I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > I use blackboard a lot. > Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to > be perfect. > If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that > blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. > I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible > with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as > blackboard. > > Many blessings, > melissa and Pj > At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and > you know what you want. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Everett Gavel" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > > Hello Again, All, > > Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using > Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national > NFB convention had a presentation on the > accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a > few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less > accessible, and that even that supposedly > accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can > anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or > articles explaining such details, please? I'm > thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado > State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very > accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation > classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. > > Thanks for any help with this. > > > Strive On! > Everett > everett at everettgavel.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Dec 19 01:08:02 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 01:08:02 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> , <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Bridget! Welcome to the list! As you probably know, (those of you who have posted here for years,) I've had issues with Blackboard! After I log in, it says, "Page has no links!" I refresh the page, and I get the same result! I don't know what version my college uses, but it's inaccessible whatever it is! Good grief! BTW, Where is Dominican College located? I've never heard of it. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hi everyone, I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > I use blackboard a lot. > Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to > be perfect. > If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that > blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. > I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible > with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as > blackboard. > > Many blessings, > melissa and Pj > At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and > you know what you want. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Everett Gavel" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > > Hello Again, All, > > Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using > Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national > NFB convention had a presentation on the > accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a > few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less > accessible, and that even that supposedly > accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can > anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or > articles explaining such details, please? I'm > thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado > State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very > accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation > classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. > > Thanks for any help with this. > > > Strive On! > Everett > everett at everettgavel.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Wed Dec 19 01:23:20 2012 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:23:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> Message-ID: <235E067B-BB05-485C-86FF-70C35ED40F31@aol.com> Hi Joshua, What version of jaws are you using? Did you try an invert F7 to bring up the links list. I have had the same problem and that is how I get around it. Dominican College is located in Orangeburg New York. Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Bridget! > Welcome to the list! > As you probably know, (those of you who have posted here for years,) I've had issues with Blackboard! > After I log in, it says, "Page has no links!" > I refresh the page, and I get the same result! > I don't know what version my college uses, but it's inaccessible whatever it is! > Good grief! > BTW, Where is Dominican College located? > I've never heard of it. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hi everyone, > I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. > As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > >> I use blackboard a lot. >> Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to >> be perfect. >> If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that >> blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. >> I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible >> with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as >> blackboard. >> >> Many blessings, >> melissa and Pj >> At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and >> you know what you want. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Everett Gavel" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> >> Hello Again, All, >> >> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >> NFB convention had a presentation on the >> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >> accessible, and that even that supposedly >> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >> >> Thanks for any help with this. >> >> >> Strive On! >> Everett >> everett at everettgavel.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From dwebster125 at verizon.net Wed Dec 19 01:25:32 2012 From: dwebster125 at verizon.net (David Webster) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:25:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> , <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> Message-ID: <000301cddd87$be963190$3bc294b0$@net> Hello. My name is Dave. I don't usually post to the list but when I see a topic of interest I will. I'm not a student right now. I have been in the past. I went to Capella university and blackboard did fairly well. I could get online and respond to posts and do pretty much whatever I had to. One of the things that I found out about going to school online is that online they make you do more work than even an on campus university. An on campus university would never make you do as much work as they do on an online school. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hi Bridget! Welcome to the list! As you probably know, (those of you who have posted here for years,) I've had issues with Blackboard! After I log in, it says, "Page has no links!" I refresh the page, and I get the same result! I don't know what version my college uses, but it's inaccessible whatever it is! Good grief! BTW, Where is Dominican College located? I've never heard of it. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hi everyone, I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > I use blackboard a lot. > Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never > going to be perfect. > If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that > blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. > I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more > accessible with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the > simelar system as blackboard. > > Many blessings, > melissa and Pj > At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are > and you know what you want. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Everett Gavel" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > > Hello Again, All, > > Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using Blackboard? I > remember that the 2010 (?) national NFB convention had a presentation > on the accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a few times > that the upgrade(s) since then are less accessible, and that even that > supposedly accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can anyone > clarify, or point me to some discussions or articles explaining such > details, please? I'm thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado > State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very accessible. But > Ashford uses the Constellation classroom system, and CSU uses > Blackboard. > > Thanks for any help with this. > > > Strive On! > Everett > everett at everettgavel.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%4 > 0aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o nmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40verizon.ne t From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Dec 19 01:36:01 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 01:36:01 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: <235E067B-BB05-485C-86FF-70C35ED40F31@aol.com> References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> , <235E067B-BB05-485C-86FF-70C35ED40F31@aol.com> Message-ID: I found that out when I researched the college. I like to research different colleges to see how their disability services are. I'm using Jaws 10.0. I posted something about my Jaws problems on another thread. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hi Joshua, What version of jaws are you using? Did you try an invert F7 to bring up the links list. I have had the same problem and that is how I get around it. Dominican College is located in Orangeburg New York. Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Bridget! > Welcome to the list! > As you probably know, (those of you who have posted here for years,) I've had issues with Blackboard! > After I log in, it says, "Page has no links!" > I refresh the page, and I get the same result! > I don't know what version my college uses, but it's inaccessible whatever it is! > Good grief! > BTW, Where is Dominican College located? > I've never heard of it. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hi everyone, > I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. > As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > >> I use blackboard a lot. >> Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to >> be perfect. >> If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that >> blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. >> I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible >> with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as >> blackboard. >> >> Many blessings, >> melissa and Pj >> At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and >> you know what you want. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Everett Gavel" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> >> Hello Again, All, >> >> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >> NFB convention had a presentation on the >> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >> accessible, and that even that supposedly >> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >> >> Thanks for any help with this. >> >> >> Strive On! >> Everett >> everett at everettgavel.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Dec 19 01:42:14 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 01:42:14 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> , <235E067B-BB05-485C-86FF-70C35ED40F31@aol.com>, Message-ID: Oh yes! To answer your other question, I've tried the F7, and it doesn't do anything. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: RE: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? I found that out when I researched the college. I like to research different colleges to see how their disability services are. I'm using Jaws 10.0. I posted something about my Jaws problems on another thread. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? Hi Joshua, What version of jaws are you using? Did you try an invert F7 to bring up the links list. I have had the same problem and that is how I get around it. Dominican College is located in Orangeburg New York. Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi Bridget! > Welcome to the list! > As you probably know, (those of you who have posted here for years,) I've had issues with Blackboard! > After I log in, it says, "Page has no links!" > I refresh the page, and I get the same result! > I don't know what version my college uses, but it's inaccessible whatever it is! > Good grief! > BTW, Where is Dominican College located? > I've never heard of it. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hi everyone, > I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. > As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > >> I use blackboard a lot. >> Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to >> be perfect. >> If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that >> blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. >> I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible >> with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as >> blackboard. >> >> Many blessings, >> melissa and Pj >> At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and >> you know what you want. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Everett Gavel" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> >> Hello Again, All, >> >> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >> NFB convention had a presentation on the >> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >> accessible, and that even that supposedly >> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >> >> Thanks for any help with this. >> >> >> Strive On! >> Everett >> everett at everettgavel.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 02:32:14 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:32:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: Hi Cory and all, I'm sure it will be fine to record classes if you need to, but I am unsure how that would benefit your education or how this is a good blindness accommodation. A more effective strategy would be to write down the most important points in the lectures using either a laptop computer, Braille Note or even a slate and stylus. In my experience, college success is about picking out and learning what's important, rather than reviewing entire lectures from beginning to end. Recorded lectures are not filtered, so even if you review a lecture recording after class you will still need a method for identifying what's really important. You can also ask the professor to give you a copy of any slides or overheads the professor shows the sighted students during class, in case you missed anything important. The professor's slides contain only the important information, not the entire lecture, so again, this will make your job of distilling what's important a lot easier. Furthermore, writing down notes is an active form of learning, while merely recording a lecture doesn't get your brain involved in the material and it is easier to forget it or not deeply process it. If any of you have found recording classes to be helpful, or if I'm missing some way that this serves as a disability accommodation, please enlighten me. Best, Arielle On 12/18/12, McMahon, Cory J wrote: > Thanks for the information below. > > I intend Community college to my general Education courses, and then go to a > > University for the Public Policy portion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bethany Bennington" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:49 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording college classes > > >> Cory, >> Most university's allow one to record lectures. However, some require an >> accommodation prior to doing so. What will you be recording on? Also, it >> is a good idea to intermingle your major course work with your general >> education requirement so that you have fillers. What advisors call gap >> cushions. So that you do not get stuck taking three major courses together >> >> that are difficult ad time consuming. For example, taking your higher >> level debate class (for public policy) pair with an easy physical >> education required course. Each one benefits the other. >> >> Any who that is my advise. I hope it works well fr you! By the way where >> were you hoping to go? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:46 AM, tiffany miles wrote: >> >>> Hi when it comes to recording your classes you can have this request put >>> >>> on >>> your accommodation letters for all your classes. When I recorded my >>> lectures my teachers did not mind because I had this request on my >>> accomodation letters good luck with your studies. >>> On Dec 18, 2012 1:18 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you >>>> record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter >>>> is >>>> done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if >>>> there >>>> is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is >>>> delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J >>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM >>>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the >>>> Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. >>>> >>>> Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? >>>> >>>> My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then >>>> major in Public Policy. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Cory McMahon >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bb131993%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cory.j.mcmahon%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 02:38:27 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:38:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problems! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joshua, What exactly did your computer do and at what stage in the installation process? Were you unable to download JAWS from the Internet or did your computer reject the software after you had begun installing it? Arielle On 12/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > I have an Acer lap top that I've had since 2009. > I'm running Internet Explorer 8, and I have Jaws 10. > BTW, I'm using Windows Vista, (I was booed for that at the Jaws seminar, > this year.) > Last tuesday, my DSO and I were trying to update Jaws, and put Jaws 11.0 on > my computer. > When we tried that, my computer rejected it, and treated it as if it were a > virus! > I don't understand why it would do that. > What do you know? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 02:42:47 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:42:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> Message-ID: <4E3F0A6AB3B14614B2035D1963E4F190@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Recording lectures is nice if you want to memorize the whole lecture. I do that for some of my classes, but usually the lectures aren't that long and it is my absolute favorite class. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording college classes Hi Cory and all, I'm sure it will be fine to record classes if you need to, but I am unsure how that would benefit your education or how this is a good blindness accommodation. A more effective strategy would be to write down the most important points in the lectures using either a laptop computer, Braille Note or even a slate and stylus. In my experience, college success is about picking out and learning what's important, rather than reviewing entire lectures from beginning to end. Recorded lectures are not filtered, so even if you review a lecture recording after class you will still need a method for identifying what's really important. You can also ask the professor to give you a copy of any slides or overheads the professor shows the sighted students during class, in case you missed anything important. The professor's slides contain only the important information, not the entire lecture, so again, this will make your job of distilling what's important a lot easier. Furthermore, writing down notes is an active form of learning, while merely recording a lecture doesn't get your brain involved in the material and it is easier to forget it or not deeply process it. If any of you have found recording classes to be helpful, or if I'm missing some way that this serves as a disability accommodation, please enlighten me. Best, Arielle On 12/18/12, McMahon, Cory J wrote: > Thanks for the information below. > > I intend Community college to my general Education courses, and then go to > a > > University for the Public Policy portion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bethany Bennington" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:49 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording college classes > > >> Cory, >> Most university's allow one to record lectures. However, some require an >> accommodation prior to doing so. What will you be recording on? Also, it >> is a good idea to intermingle your major course work with your general >> education requirement so that you have fillers. What advisors call gap >> cushions. So that you do not get stuck taking three major courses >> together >> >> that are difficult ad time consuming. For example, taking your higher >> level debate class (for public policy) pair with an easy physical >> education required course. Each one benefits the other. >> >> Any who that is my advise. I hope it works well fr you! By the way where >> were you hoping to go? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:46 AM, tiffany miles wrote: >> >>> Hi when it comes to recording your classes you can have this request put >>> >>> on >>> your accommodation letters for all your classes. When I recorded my >>> lectures my teachers did not mind because I had this request on my >>> accomodation letters good luck with your studies. >>> On Dec 18, 2012 1:18 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you >>>> record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter >>>> is >>>> done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if >>>> there >>>> is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is >>>> delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J >>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM >>>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the >>>> Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. >>>> >>>> Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? >>>> >>>> My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and then >>>> major in Public Policy. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Cory McMahon >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bb131993%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cory.j.mcmahon%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 02:48:39 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:48:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes In-Reply-To: <4E3F0A6AB3B14614B2035D1963E4F190@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <4876759798FE439CB414E7DAA74269AD@cory> <4E3F0A6AB3B14614B2035D1963E4F190@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Obviously it would make sense to record music classes. I think if someone wanted to record a class and obtained permission beforehand, regardless of disability, most professors would probably allow it. I just don't really see how recording a class would be a blindness-related accommodation, unless someone had no other way of taking notes. I could maybe understand it if a class moves very fast and your means of notetaking is very slow, but even then, most professors have notes available in some written format that can be made accessible. Arielle On 12/18/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Recording lectures is nice if you want to memorize the whole lecture. > I do that for some of my classes, but usually the lectures aren't that long > > and it is my absolute favorite class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording college classes > > Hi Cory and all, > I'm sure it will be fine to record classes if you need to, but I am > unsure how that would benefit your education or how this is a good > blindness accommodation. A more effective strategy would be to write > down the most important points in the lectures using either a laptop > computer, Braille Note or even a slate and stylus. In my experience, > college success is about picking out and learning what's important, > rather than reviewing entire lectures from beginning to end. Recorded > lectures are not filtered, so even if you review a lecture recording > after class you will still need a method for identifying what's really > important. You can also ask the professor to give you a copy of any > slides or overheads the professor shows the sighted students during > class, in case you missed anything important. The professor's slides > contain only the important information, not the entire lecture, so > again, this will make your job of distilling what's important a lot > easier. Furthermore, writing down notes is an active form of learning, > while merely recording a lecture doesn't get your brain involved in > the material and it is easier to forget it or not deeply process it. > If any of you have found recording classes to be helpful, or if I'm > missing some way that this serves as a disability accommodation, > please enlighten me. > Best, > Arielle > > On 12/18/12, McMahon, Cory J wrote: >> Thanks for the information below. >> >> I intend Community college to my general Education courses, and then go to >> >> a >> >> University for the Public Policy portion. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bethany Bennington" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:49 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording college classes >> >> >>> Cory, >>> Most university's allow one to record lectures. However, some require an >>> accommodation prior to doing so. What will you be recording on? Also, it >>> is a good idea to intermingle your major course work with your general >>> education requirement so that you have fillers. What advisors call gap >>> cushions. So that you do not get stuck taking three major courses >>> together >>> >>> that are difficult ad time consuming. For example, taking your higher >>> level debate class (for public policy) pair with an easy physical >>> education required course. Each one benefits the other. >>> >>> Any who that is my advise. I hope it works well fr you! By the way where >>> were you hoping to go? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:46 AM, tiffany miles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi when it comes to recording your classes you can have this request >>>> put >>>> >>>> on >>>> your accommodation letters for all your classes. When I recorded my >>>> lectures my teachers did not mind because I had this request on my >>>> accomodation letters good luck with your studies. >>>> On Dec 18, 2012 1:18 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Ask the teacher. Every teacher is different. My teachers require you >>>>> record their classes. Others ask you to delete them after the quarter >>>>> is >>>>> done. Every teacher is different, but usually there is no problem. if >>>>> there >>>>> is you can work it out with the AS office and get the minimum that is >>>>> delete the recording 32 hours after you got it. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: McMahon, Cory J >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 9:38 PM >>>>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Recording college classes >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in the process of applying to college (with plans to attend in the >>>>> Fall of 2013), and have a quick question. >>>>> >>>>> Are their stipulations concerning recording the classes? >>>>> >>>>> My goal is to get my General Education courses out of the way, and >>>>> then >>>>> major in Public Policy. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Cory McMahon >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bb131993%40yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cory.j.mcmahon%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From tattenberg at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 03:51:49 2012 From: tattenberg at gmail.com (Trevor Attenberg) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:51:49 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone: Does it Work Jaws-wise? Message-ID: <013401cddd9c$2db00740$891015c0$@gmail.com> Hello NABS group, This is Trevor Attenberg. I would like to know if you would share any knowledge you have on the utility of Rosetta Stone (the quite popular, but expensive language learning software) for users of Jaws. Keep in mind we're not talking about looking at the screen or making use of another adaptive tool. This is something I am investigating; though it is way too expensive to purchase without certainty it will be accessible. Thank you for your time. Rock away, Trevor A From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 05:22:16 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:22:16 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone: Does it Work Jaws-wise? In-Reply-To: <013401cddd9c$2db00740$891015c0$@gmail.com> References: <013401cddd9c$2db00740$891015c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, No it isn't, do pimsleur. They are cheaper and awesome beyond belief. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Trevor Attenberg Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone: Does it Work Jaws-wise? Hello NABS group, This is Trevor Attenberg. I would like to know if you would share any knowledge you have on the utility of Rosetta Stone (the quite popular, but expensive language learning software) for users of Jaws. Keep in mind we're not talking about looking at the screen or making use of another adaptive tool. This is something I am investigating; though it is way too expensive to purchase without certainty it will be accessible. Thank you for your time. Rock away, Trevor A _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 05:39:04 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 00:39:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> Message-ID: At UMB, we have been using the Vista version of Blackboard. That worked well with both JFW 10 and 14. What version are you using? Sent from my iPad On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Bridget Walker" wrote: > Hi everyone, > I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. > As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: > >> I use blackboard a lot. >> Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to >> be perfect. >> If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that >> blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. >> I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible >> with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as >> blackboard. >> >> Many blessings, >> melissa and Pj >> At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and >> you know what you want. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Everett Gavel" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> >> Hello Again, All, >> >> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >> NFB convention had a presentation on the >> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >> accessible, and that even that supposedly >> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >> >> Thanks for any help with this. >> >> >> Strive On! >> Everett >> everett at everettgavel.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 05:46:22 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 00:46:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> Message-ID: I think that our disability services office had something to do with the accessibility functions, since on our IT pages, tips are given for people to make webpages accessible. I will cut this message here, so I do not turn it into something inappropriate (in a good way). Simply put, Umass Boston is the best, they have the best. Thank you Sent from my iPad On Dec 19, 2012, at 12:40 AM, "wmodnl wmodnl" wrote: > At UMB, we have been using the Vista version of Blackboard. That worked well with both JFW 10 and 14. What version are you using? > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Bridget Walker" wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. >> As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: >> >>> I use blackboard a lot. >>> Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to >>> be perfect. >>> If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that >>> blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. >>> I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible >>> with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as >>> blackboard. >>> >>> Many blessings, >>> melissa and Pj >>> At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and >>> you know what you want. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Everett Gavel" >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >>> >>> >>> Hello Again, All, >>> >>> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >>> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >>> NFB convention had a presentation on the >>> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >>> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >>> accessible, and that even that supposedly >>> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >>> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >>> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >>> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >>> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >>> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >>> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >>> >>> Thanks for any help with this. >>> >>> >>> Strive On! >>> Everett >>> everett at everettgavel.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 19 00:17:48 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:17:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <45549492-35AB-4A8A-9E94-2AE6C31B50E1@me.com> On Dec 11, 2012, at 09:46 PM, Marc Workman wrote: > To clarify, Brandon, it's not the Royal National Institute of People who are Blind. It's the RNIB, which stands for Royal National Institute of Blind People. NFB could remain NFB and stand for National Federation of Blind People. You could tweak what the acronym stands for without changing the acronym itself. Not that I'm suggesting NFB change what it stands for. Probably, I'd support such a change, but "the blind" as a way for referring to blind people seems to be so widely accepted and entrenched that I doubt such a proposed change would be taken seriously enough to even debate, let alone to be supported by whatever majority would be required to make the change. I'm only saying that since we're on the topic of how we refer to blind people, I think the term "the blind" is a little outdated and impersonal. > > Best, > > Marc > On 2012-12-11, at 9:39 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > > > Hello, > > National federation of people who are blind. Hm, not the ring I'd like... > > NFB sounds cooler! > > When we refer to people with their sight we say sighted folks, or sighted people. I sometimes say people who are sighted, but in that context I do think of that trait above all else, their neurological patterns communicating from their brain to their eyes at a standard 20/20 vision. > > When I say blind people I know that people are going to think of my blindness first. Even if I say I'm a person who is blind the reader will fix that unique trait on me above all else. If I say something like I'm an Opera singer or I'm a person who sings Opera, I'm sure the same thing happens. People focus on that unique trait and I don't think it makes a difference where it gets put in the sentence. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:45 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? > > > > Apologies for slightly highjacking, Arielle. > > > > I'm interested in the question the article poses, and like Arielle, I resist the requirement to use people first language. I think it's fine to say people who are blind if that sounds better or if it adds variety to writing and speaking, but I'm not a fan of the requirement to always use this phrase. > > > > It seems to be partly motivated by the desire to create distance between the person and the trait/characteristic. Why not insist on people who are intelligent or people who are attractive? I think the answer is that we recognize these qualities as either neutral or positive, but disability generally and blindness in particular are seen as negative, and thus we want to distance ourselves or the people we are talking about from those negative qualities by using people first language. > > > > That said, the term "the blind" is one I'm not fond of. It jars me the way saying the blacks or the gays does. It would be nice if we could say something like blinds and avoid the whole issue, the way we can say African Americans/blacks or homosexuals, but of course blind is an adjective and not a noun. With the exception of terms like blinks or blindies, not widely accepted, we have to say "the blind" or "blind people" when talking about a specific group of blind people or blind people generally. I'm not completely sure why I dislike it, but I definitely do and will almost always say blind people rather than "the blind", unless I'm being required to use people first language. > > > > I'm not alone on this either apparently. The RNIB has changed it's name twice in the recent past. First, the Royal National Institute for the Blind became the Royal National Institute of the Blind. This reflected a shift in governance of the organization. It shifted from an organization for to an organization of blind people, but that was not the end of the name changing. More recently, the RNIB became the Royal National Institute of Blind People. Personally, I prefer this, though as I admit, I'm not entirely sure why. It has something to do with the term "the blind" feeling to me incredibly impersonal, but I haven't spent enough time thinking about it to explain further. > > > > I'd be interested to know if members of an organization that has "the blind" in its name are at all uncomfortable with this way of referring to blind people. > > > > Best, > > > > Marc > > On 2012-12-11, at 8:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > >> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > >> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > >> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > >> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > >> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > >> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > >> appropriate? > >> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > >> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > >> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > >> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > >> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > >> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > >> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > >> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > >> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > >> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > >> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > >> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > >> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > >> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > >> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > >> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > >> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > >> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > >> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > >> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > >> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > >> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > >> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > >> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > >> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > >> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > >> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > >> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > >> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > >>> Brandon, > >>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what > >>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my > >>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to > >>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a > >>>> leader as a blind person. > >>>> > >>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my > >>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference > >>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where > >>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end > >>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because > >>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). > >>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them > >>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of > >>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could > >>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >>>> > >>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known > >>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't > >>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >>>> > >>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to > >>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >>>> > >>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >>>> don't even notice the difference. > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> > >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>>> > >>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >>>> interesting. What do you guys think? > >>>> > >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>>> From: LILITH Finkler > >>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>>> effect?" > >>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >>>> series on "person first language". > >>>> Lilith=========================================================================================== > >>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > >>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >>>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >>>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >>>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >>>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >>>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >>>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >>>> are “people with disabilities.” > >>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > >>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > >>>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >>>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > >>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > >>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > >>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > >>>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >>>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > >>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >>>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >>>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >>>> through language.” > >>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > >>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > >>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >>>> autism. > >>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >>>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > >>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >>>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > >>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the > >>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >>>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >>>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >>>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >>>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >>>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > >>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >>>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >>>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > >>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > >>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >>>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > >>>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >>>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >>>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > >>>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > >>>> language > >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >>>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >>>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > >>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >>>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >>>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >>>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >>>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >>>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >>>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > >>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >>>> years.” > >>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > >>>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > >>>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >>>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >>>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >>>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >>>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >>>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >>>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > >>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > >>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >>>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >>>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >>>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >>>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >>>> ________________End of message________________ > >>>> > >>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > >>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > >>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >>>> > >>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > >>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>>> > >>>> Archives and tools are located at: > >>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >>>> > >>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web > >>>> page. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 19 00:18:26 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:18:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1FE94D4D-549D-40DB-ADB6-F028552F5A64@me.com> On Dec 11, 2012, at 09:46 PM, Marc Workman wrote: > To clarify, Brandon, it's not the Royal National Institute of People who are Blind. It's the RNIB, which stands for Royal National Institute of Blind People. NFB could remain NFB and stand for National Federation of Blind People. You could tweak what the acronym stands for without changing the acronym itself. Not that I'm suggesting NFB change what it stands for. Probably, I'd support such a change, but "the blind" as a way for referring to blind people seems to be so widely accepted and entrenched that I doubt such a proposed change would be taken seriously enough to even debate, let alone to be supported by whatever majority would be required to make the change. I'm only saying that since we're on the topic of how we refer to blind people, I think the term "the blind" is a little outdated and impersonal. > > Best, > > Marc > On 2012-12-11, at 9:39 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > > > Hello, > > National federation of people who are blind. Hm, not the ring I'd like... > > NFB sounds cooler! > > When we refer to people with their sight we say sighted folks, or sighted people. I sometimes say people who are sighted, but in that context I do think of that trait above all else, their neurological patterns communicating from their brain to their eyes at a standard 20/20 vision. > > When I say blind people I know that people are going to think of my blindness first. Even if I say I'm a person who is blind the reader will fix that unique trait on me above all else. If I say something like I'm an Opera singer or I'm a person who sings Opera, I'm sure the same thing happens. People focus on that unique trait and I don't think it makes a difference where it gets put in the sentence. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:45 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] the blind or blind people was Re: Are we blind people orpeople who are blind? > > > > Apologies for slightly highjacking, Arielle. > > > > I'm interested in the question the article poses, and like Arielle, I resist the requirement to use people first language. I think it's fine to say people who are blind if that sounds better or if it adds variety to writing and speaking, but I'm not a fan of the requirement to always use this phrase. > > > > It seems to be partly motivated by the desire to create distance between the person and the trait/characteristic. Why not insist on people who are intelligent or people who are attractive? I think the answer is that we recognize these qualities as either neutral or positive, but disability generally and blindness in particular are seen as negative, and thus we want to distance ourselves or the people we are talking about from those negative qualities by using people first language. > > > > That said, the term "the blind" is one I'm not fond of. It jars me the way saying the blacks or the gays does. It would be nice if we could say something like blinds and avoid the whole issue, the way we can say African Americans/blacks or homosexuals, but of course blind is an adjective and not a noun. With the exception of terms like blinks or blindies, not widely accepted, we have to say "the blind" or "blind people" when talking about a specific group of blind people or blind people generally. I'm not completely sure why I dislike it, but I definitely do and will almost always say blind people rather than "the blind", unless I'm being required to use people first language. > > > > I'm not alone on this either apparently. The RNIB has changed it's name twice in the recent past. First, the Royal National Institute for the Blind became the Royal National Institute of the Blind. This reflected a shift in governance of the organization. It shifted from an organization for to an organization of blind people, but that was not the end of the name changing. More recently, the RNIB became the Royal National Institute of Blind People. Personally, I prefer this, though as I admit, I'm not entirely sure why. It has something to do with the term "the blind" feeling to me incredibly impersonal, but I haven't spent enough time thinking about it to explain further. > > > > I'd be interested to know if members of an organization that has "the blind" in its name are at all uncomfortable with this way of referring to blind people. > > > > Best, > > > > Marc > > On 2012-12-11, at 8:07 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > >> in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > >> think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > >> asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > >> what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > >> focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > >> "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > >> appropriate? > >> I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > >> a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > >> in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > >> research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > >> impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > >> philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > >> to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > >> co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > >> the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > >> throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > >> and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > >> me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > >> people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > >> feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > >> extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > >> who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > >> positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > >> like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > >> impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > >> blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > >> members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > >> collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > >> assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > >> feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > >> family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > >> with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > >> talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > >> who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > >> they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > >>> Brandon, > >>> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what > >>>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >>>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on my > >>>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to > >>>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a > >>>> leader as a blind person. > >>>> > >>>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about my > >>>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference > >>>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects where > >>>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end > >>>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because > >>>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is :). > >>>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them > >>>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of > >>>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could > >>>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >>>> > >>>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be known > >>>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They don't > >>>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >>>> > >>>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need to > >>>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >>>> > >>>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >>>> don't even notice the difference. > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> > >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>>> > >>>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >>>> interesting. What do you guys think? > >>>> > >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>>> From: LILITH Finkler > >>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >>>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>>> effect?" > >>>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >>>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >>>> series on "person first language". > >>>> Lilith=========================================================================================== > >>>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >>>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > >>>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >>>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >>>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >>>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >>>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >>>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >>>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >>>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >>>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >>>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >>>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >>>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >>>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >>>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >>>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >>>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >>>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >>>> are “people with disabilities.” > >>>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >>>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >>>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >>>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >>>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > >>>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >>>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >>>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >>>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > >>>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >>>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > >>>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >>>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > >>>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > >>>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > >>>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >>>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >>>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >>>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > >>>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >>>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >>>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >>>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >>>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >>>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >>>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >>>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >>>> through language.” > >>>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >>>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >>>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >>>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > >>>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > >>>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >>>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >>>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >>>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >>>> autism. > >>>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >>>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >>>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >>>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >>>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > >>>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >>>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >>>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >>>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > >>>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >>>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >>>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the > >>>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >>>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >>>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >>>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >>>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >>>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >>>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > >>>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >>>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >>>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >>>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >>>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > >>>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > >>>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >>>> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >>>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > >>>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >>>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >>>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >>>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >>>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >>>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >>>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >>>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > >>>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > >>>> language > >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >>>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >>>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >>>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > >>>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >>>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >>>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >>>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >>>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >>>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >>>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >>>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >>>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >>>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >>>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >>>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >>>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >>>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > >>>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >>>> years.” > >>>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >>>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >>>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > >>>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > >>>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >>>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >>>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >>>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >>>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >>>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >>>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >>>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >>>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >>>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >>>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >>>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >>>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >>>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >>>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >>>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >>>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >>>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >>>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >>>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >>>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >>>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > >>>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > >>>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >>>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >>>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >>>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >>>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >>>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >>>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >>>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >>>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >>>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >>>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >>>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >>>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >>>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >>>> ________________End of message________________ > >>>> > >>>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > >>>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > >>>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >>>> > >>>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > >>>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>>> > >>>> Archives and tools are located at: > >>>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >>>> > >>>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web > >>>> page. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From missheather at comcast.net Wed Dec 19 15:11:59 2012 From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:11:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone: Does it Work Jaws-wise? In-Reply-To: <013401cddd9c$2db00740$891015c0$@gmail.com> References: <013401cddd9c$2db00740$891015c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5DCC0B7A4D1F47A089C39633BFABAD65@HeatherAcer> Hello, Rosetta Stone is not a good choice for blind people; far too graphics-based. There is an extremely usable program called Pimsleur, named after the man who spent his life researching and implementing the best way to teach foreign languages. Not only is it accessible to the blind, it is also a far superior language learning approach. It is based on the premise that learning a language is primarily oral and auditory and is based on that approach. It is also much less expensive than Rosetta Stone as it's available in modules. It's also available in various packages, depending on your purpose for learning a language. E.g. if someone wants a short course to prepare for a vacation in another country, that is available. Or, if they want a complete, multi-year, complete mastery course, including reading and writing, that is also available. Pimsleur is produced and distributed by Simon And Schuster and can be found via their website. I would encourage you to Warmest regards, Heather Field -----Original Message----- From: Trevor Attenberg Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone: Does it Work Jaws-wise? Hello NABS group, This is Trevor Attenberg. I would like to know if you would share any knowledge you have on the utility of Rosetta Stone (the quite popular, but expensive language learning software) for users of Jaws. Keep in mind we're not talking about looking at the screen or making use of another adaptive tool. This is something I am investigating; though it is way too expensive to purchase without certainty it will be accessible. Thank you for your time. Rock away, Trevor A _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:51 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 16:22:51 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problems! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: It wouldn't let us download the software from the Internet. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problems! Joshua, What exactly did your computer do and at what stage in the installation process? Were you unable to download JAWS from the Internet or did your computer reject the software after you had begun installing it? Arielle On 12/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > I have an Acer lap top that I've had since 2009. > I'm running Internet Explorer 8, and I have Jaws 10. > BTW, I'm using Windows Vista, (I was booed for that at the Jaws seminar, > this year.) > Last tuesday, my DSO and I were trying to update Jaws, and put Jaws 11.0 on > my computer. > When we tried that, my computer rejected it, and treated it as if it were a > virus! > I don't understand why it would do that. > What do you know? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 19:02:09 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 12:02:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problems! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know for sure what the issue is, but it could be a firewall on your computer that is blocking the program. I would suggest getting help from an IT person at your school rather than from the disability service person. The DSS might know a lot about JAWS but less about computers and firewalls. Arielle On 12/19/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > It wouldn't let us download the software from the Internet. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman > [arielle71 at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problems! > > Joshua, > What exactly did your computer do and at what stage in the > installation process? Were you unable to download JAWS from the > Internet or did your computer reject the software after you had begun > installing it? > Arielle > > On 12/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I have an Acer lap top that I've had since 2009. >> I'm running Internet Explorer 8, and I have Jaws 10. >> BTW, I'm using Windows Vista, (I was booed for that at the Jaws seminar, >> this year.) >> Last tuesday, my DSO and I were trying to update Jaws, and put Jaws 11.0 >> on >> my computer. >> When we tried that, my computer rejected it, and treated it as if it were >> a >> virus! >> I don't understand why it would do that. >> What do you know? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Dec 19 23:47:48 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 18:47:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AA030EE1F544A63AA11AE400BA16588@OwnerPC> Hi, good topic. I think this is creating only a politically correct society where people are afraid to say the words associated with a disability such as blind, deaf, paraplecgic, etc. I don't mind people at all saying blind person, or visually impaired person, etc. In fact often saying person first makes our language more cluttered and disorganized. I cannot imagine having to keep writing person who stutters rather than stutterer; I'd prefer the direct way; besides what is more important is changing attitudes; and I don't think we've come to accept a disabled person for who they are yet. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:40 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very interesting. What do you guys think? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: LILITH Finkler Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?" To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a series on "person first language". Lilith=========================================================================================== CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there are “people with disabilities.” No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that the disability rights movement is changing language to be more respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is through language.” The global movement to promote person-first language has been extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with autism. But some people, including members of several disability groups, aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered derogatory or pejorative in the first place. St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer is nothing short of ludicrous. “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first language (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives that describe them before they arrive at the noun” (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more years.” The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their language according to their audience so that focus remains on their message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ published online November 7, 2012Full Text ________________End of message________________ This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for Disability Studies at the University of Leeds (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). Enquiries about list administration should be sent to disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk Archives and tools are located at: www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Dec 19 23:47:57 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 18:47:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Arielle, Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the person to describe them. We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a disability we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to me. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? Hi all, The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I think that's a different question from what the article I posted is asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more appropriate? I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. Arielle On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > Brandon, > Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and what >> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >> my >> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >> leader as a blind person. >> >> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >> my >> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> where >> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >> :). >> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> known >> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> don't >> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >> to >> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> don't even notice the difference. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: LILITH Finkler >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?" >> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> >> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> series on "person first language". >> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >> are “people with disabilities.” >> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> through language.” >> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> autism. >> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >> language >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> years.” >> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> ________________End of message________________ >> >> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >> Archives and tools are located at: >> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> page. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 00:31:27 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:31:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Ashley, For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or "people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? Just my thoughts, Kirt On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the person > to describe them. > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a disability > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to me. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > Hi all, > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > appropriate? > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > Arielle > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> Brandon, >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>> what >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >>> my >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >>> my >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>> where >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >>> :). >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>> known >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>> don't >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >>> to >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?" >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> series on "person first language". >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>> are “people with disabilities.” >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> through language.” >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> autism. >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1–24). He found that the >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >>> language >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> years.” >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> page. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Thu Dec 20 00:57:03 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 18:57:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I read an academic study -- just the other day, and it said that most sighted persons prefer to use person first language with blind people, and most blind people preferred to use blind people or blind persons etc. Don't remember specific numbers, but that bears out what I have seen on various lists. Dave At 06:31 PM 12/19/2012, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >Ashley, > For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome >and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or >"people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our >society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on >person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least >trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather >than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something >to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be >blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like >that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at >least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first >language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and >marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world >recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in >terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that >recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? > Just my thoughts, >Kirt > >On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > > Arielle, > > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. > > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the person > > to describe them. > > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. > > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a disability > > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. > > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to me. > > > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arielle Silverman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > > > Hi all, > > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > > appropriate? > > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > > Arielle > > > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > >> Brandon, > >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hello, > >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and > >>> what > >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on > >>> my > >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to > >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a > >>> leader as a blind person. > >>> > >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about > >>> my > >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference > >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects > >>> where > >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end > >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because > >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is > >>> :). > >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them > >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of > >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could > >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >>> > >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be > >>> known > >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They > >>> don't > >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >>> > >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need > >>> to > >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >>> > >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >>> don't even notice the difference. > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>> > >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >>> interesting. What do you guys think? > >>> > >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>> From: LILITH Finkler > >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>> effect?" > >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >>> series on "person first language". > >>> > Lilith=========================================================================================== > >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >>> are “people with disabilities.” > >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >>> through language.” > >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >>> autism. > >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the > >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > >>> language > >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >>> years.” > >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >>> ________________End of message________________ From tattenberg at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 04:46:56 2012 From: tattenberg at gmail.com (Trevor Attenberg) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 20:46:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Message-ID: <006001cdde6d$0b62d380$22287a80$@gmail.com> Thanks, I've done Pimsleur several times--the audio CDs anyway. It seems their resources are quite limited in some popular languages, which is one reason for my message about Rosetta. Guess I should've mentioned that. Trevor From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Dec 20 07:17:11 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 23:17:11 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: <0AA030EE1F544A63AA11AE400BA16588@OwnerPC> References: <0AA030EE1F544A63AA11AE400BA16588@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121219224551.01e88640@comcast.net> Good evening, Ashley, I agree! In fact, this "person first" mentality does nothing whatsoever to increase chances of sighted acceptance of us whatsoever. It makes us seem ever alien, than we are already. I find it immensely clattery and unnatural. Besides, as someone said, our blindness is often what defines us, like it or not. It's way more than an inconvenience. Furthermore, it makes us special since not everybody is BLIND. Does this make sense? Anyway Ashley, I agree with you! Car /19/2012, you wrote: >Hi, >good topic. > >I think this is creating only a politically correct society where people are >afraid to say the words associated with a disability such as blind, deaf, >paraplecgic, etc. > >I don't mind people at all saying blind person, or visually impaired person, >etc. >In fact often saying person first makes our language more cluttered and >disorganized. I cannot imagine having to keep writing person who stutters >rather than stutterer; I'd prefer the direct way; besides what is more >important is changing attitudes; and I don't think we've come to accept a >disabled person for who they are yet. > >Ashley >-----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:40 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >interesting. What do you guys think? > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: LILITH Finkler >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >effect?" >To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > > >Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >series on "person first language". >Lilith=========================================================================================== >CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >“person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >are “people with disabilities.” >No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >“People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >(www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >through language.” >The global movement to promote person-first language has been >extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >autism. >But some people, including members of several disability groups, >aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >“with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >(‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >is nothing short of ludicrous. >“It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >language >(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >(www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >“Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >“diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >“tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >years.” >The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >“person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >(www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >“person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >published online November 7, 2012Full Text >________________End of message________________ > >This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >(www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >Archives and tools are located at: >www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Dec 20 07:23:32 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 23:23:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121219231934.01c98720@comcast.net> Listen, I don't know much about this "person first," nonsense but I would guess that this whole concept of addressing the person first was, like talking about a Black, or gay person, thought up by folk who aren't themselves, Black, or gay, no? This idea of nonmembers labeling us horrifies me. A step toward self determination, in my view, is to figure out what makes how we ought to be identified. Car 2012, you wrote: >Ashley, > For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome >and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or >"people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our >society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on >person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least >trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather >than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something >to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be >blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like >that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at >least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first >language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and >marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world >recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in >terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that >recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? > Just my thoughts, >Kirt > >On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > > Arielle, > > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. > > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the person > > to describe them. > > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. > > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a disability > > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. > > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to me. > > > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arielle Silverman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > > > > Hi all, > > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > > appropriate? > > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > > Arielle > > > > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > >> Brandon, > >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hello, > >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and > >>> what > >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on > >>> my > >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to > >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a > >>> leader as a blind person. > >>> > >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about > >>> my > >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference > >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects > >>> where > >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end > >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because > >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is > >>> :). > >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them > >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of > >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could > >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >>> > >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be > >>> known > >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They > >>> don't > >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >>> > >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need > >>> to > >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >>> > >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >>> don't even notice the difference. > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>> > >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >>> interesting. What do you guys think? > >>> > >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>> From: LILITH Finkler > >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>> effect?" > >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >>> series on "person first language". > >>> > Lilith=========================================================================================== > >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or > >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >>> are “people with disabilities.” > >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point > >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs > >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been > >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to > >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language > >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM > >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written > >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >>> through language.” > >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the > >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to > >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >>> autism. > >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases > >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it > >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the > >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances > >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” > >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that > >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This > >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it > >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first > >>> language > >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives > >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong > >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >>> years.” > >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even > >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring > >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking > >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am > >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >>> ________________End of message________________ > >>> > >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >>> > >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> > >>> Archives and tools are located at: > >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >>> > >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web > >>> page. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Dec 20 09:01:49 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 03:01:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20121219231934.01c98720@comcast.net> References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20121219231934.01c98720@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C302DAD-38C7-43CD-A0D1-DC9E4C25150D@samobile.net> That is a fabulous question! I would also be very interested in knowing who started the person first movement. If it was The disabled community who started it, which group was it exactly and why? If it was the nondisabled group that started it, which group was it and why? I wonder, if it were persons with disabilities who started this, if they would be happy with the results if they knew how it will turn out. If memory serves, it was the Secretary of Education the started person first language. There was a memorandum sent out to government officials and workers in the early 1990s shortly after the passage of the Americans with disabilities act. This memorandum gave extremely specific instructions on how various disability groups ought to be referred to. But that still does not answer a question of how person first language actually got started. It does however, describe how person first language was propagated. Respect fully submitted Sent from my iPhone On Dec 20, 2012, at 1:23 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Listen, I don't know much about this "person first," nonsense but I would guess that this whole concept of addressing the person first was, like talking about a Black, or gay person, thought up by folk who aren't themselves, Black, or gay, no? This idea of nonmembers labeling us horrifies me. A step toward self determination, in my view, is to figure out what makes how we ought to be identified. > Car 2012, you wrote: >> Ashley, >> For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome >> and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or >> "people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our >> society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on >> person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least >> trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather >> than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something >> to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be >> blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like >> that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at >> least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first >> language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and >> marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world >> recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in >> terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that >> recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? >> Just my thoughts, >> Kirt >> >> On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> > Arielle, >> > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. >> > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the person >> > to describe them. >> > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. >> > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a disability >> > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. >> > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to me. >> > >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Arielle Silverman >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> > >> > Hi all, >> > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or >> > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >> > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >> > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >> > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >> > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >> > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >> > appropriate? >> > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >> > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >> > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >> > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >> > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >> > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed >> > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >> > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >> > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >> > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >> > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >> > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >> > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >> > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >> > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >> > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >> > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >> > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >> > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >> > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >> > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >> > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >> > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >> > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >> > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >> > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >> > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >> > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >> > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >> >> Brandon, >> >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hello, >> >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >> >>> what >> >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >> >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy on >> >>> my >> >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking to >> >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following a >> >>> leader as a blind person. >> >>> >> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking about >> >>> my >> >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in reference >> >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >> >>> where >> >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the end >> >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only because >> >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy is >> >>> :). >> >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped them >> >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game of >> >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but could >> >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >> >>> >> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >> >>> known >> >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >> >>> don't >> >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >> >>> >> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't need >> >>> to >> >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >> >>> >> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >> >>> don't even notice the difference. >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> >> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >> >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >> >>> >> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >> >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >> >>> >> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >>> From: LILITH Finkler >> >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >> >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >>> effect?" >> >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >> >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >> >>> series on "person first language". >> >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >> >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >> >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association or >> >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >> >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >> >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >> >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >> >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >> >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >> >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >> >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >> >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >> >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >> >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >> >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >> >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >> >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >> >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >> >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >> >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >> >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >> >>> are “people with disabilities.” >> >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >> >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >> >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >> >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >> >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics point >> >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >> >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >> >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >> >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who runs >> >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >> >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, been >> >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >> >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put to >> >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first language >> >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH AUTISM >> >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >> >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >> >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >> >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has written >> >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >> >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >> >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >> >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >> >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >> >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >> >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >> >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >> >>> through language.” >> >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >> >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >> >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >> >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is the >> >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer to >> >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >> >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >> >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >> >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >> >>> autism. >> >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >> >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >> >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >> >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >> >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of diseases >> >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >> >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >> >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >> >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if it >> >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >> >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >> >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >> >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >> >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >> >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >> >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >> >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >> >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >> >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology enhances >> >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >> >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >> >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >> >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >> >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who stutters” >> >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion that >> >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >> >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >> >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: This >> >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >> >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >> >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >> >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >> >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >> >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >> >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >> >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what it >> >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use person-first >> >>> language >> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >> >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >> >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >> >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the adjectives >> >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >> >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >> >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >> >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >> >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >> >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >> >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >> >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >> >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >> >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >> >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >> >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >> >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it strong >> >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >> >>> years.” >> >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >> >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >> >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some even >> >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than referring >> >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >> >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >> >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >> >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >> >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >> >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >> >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >> >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >> >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >> >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >> >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >> >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >> >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >> >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >> >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >> >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >> >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >> >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >> >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >> >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >> >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >> >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m talking >> >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I am >> >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >> >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >> >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >> >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >> >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >> >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >> >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >> >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >> >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >> >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >> >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >> >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >> >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >> >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >> >>> ________________End of message________________ >> >>> >> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >> >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >> >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >> >>> >> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >> >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >> >>> >> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >> >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >> >>> >> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >> >>> page. >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 18:53:06 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 11:53:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: <1C302DAD-38C7-43CD-A0D1-DC9E4C25150D@samobile.net> References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20121219231934.01c98720@comcast.net> <1C302DAD-38C7-43CD-A0D1-DC9E4C25150D@samobile.net> Message-ID: Carley, Jedi and all, I'm not saying I like person-first language, neither am I suggesting its application is helpful or appropriate. I am, however, of the belief that the intention behind person-first language is to increase the belief that disabled people are people first and foremost, instead of walking, talking, breathing disabilities. I'm sure we've all been treated as though we are blindness, (Carley, incidentally, that is the only part of being blind I find to be more than an inconvenience), and I think the people who propogated person-first language were trying to eliminate this second-class treatment. Ironically enough, I think the actual application of person-first language has had an effect counter to its original intentions, but I can at least respect the desires behind the effort. Am I making any sense? Warmest regards, and happy holidays, Kirt On 12/20/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: > That is a fabulous question! I would also be very interested in knowing who > started the person first movement. If it was The disabled community who > started it, which group was it exactly and why? If it was the nondisabled > group that started it, which group was it and why? I wonder, if it were > persons with disabilities who started this, if they would be happy with the > results if they knew how it will turn out. If memory serves, it was the > Secretary of Education the started person first language. There was a > memorandum sent out to government officials and workers in the early 1990s > shortly after the passage of the Americans with disabilities act. This > memorandum gave extremely specific instructions on how various disability > groups ought to be referred to. But that still does not answer a question of > how person first language actually got started. It does however, describe > how person first language was propagated. > > Respect fully submitted > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 20, 2012, at 1:23 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Listen, I don't know much about this "person first," nonsense but I would >> guess that this whole concept of addressing the person first was, like >> talking about a Black, or gay person, thought up by folk who aren't >> themselves, Black, or gay, no? This idea of nonmembers labeling us >> horrifies me. A step toward self determination, in my view, is to figure >> out what makes how we ought to be identified. >> Car 2012, you wrote: >>> Ashley, >>> For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome >>> and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or >>> "people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our >>> society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on >>> person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least >>> trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather >>> than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something >>> to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be >>> blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like >>> that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at >>> least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first >>> language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and >>> marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world >>> recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in >>> terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that >>> recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? >>> Just my thoughts, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> > Arielle, >>> > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. >>> > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the >>> > person >>> > to describe them. >>> > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. >>> > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a >>> > disability >>> > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. >>> > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to >>> > me. >>> > >>> > Ashley >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Arielle Silverman >>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or >>> > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >>> > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >>> > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >>> > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >>> > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >>> > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >>> > appropriate? >>> > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >>> > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >>> > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >>> > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >>> > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >>> > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed >>> > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >>> > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >>> > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >>> > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >>> > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >>> > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>> > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I >>> > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>> > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people >>> > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>> > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>> > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>> > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>> > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>> > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>> > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>> > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>> > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>> > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them >>> > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>> > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there >>> > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>> > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>> > Arielle >>> > >>> > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>> >> Brandon, >>> >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>> >> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone >>> >> >>> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and >>> >>> what >>> >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some >>> >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy >>> >>> on >>> >>> my >>> >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking >>> >>> to >>> >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following >>> >>> a >>> >>> leader as a blind person. >>> >>> >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking >>> >>> about >>> >>> my >>> >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >>> >>> reference >>> >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects >>> >>> where >>> >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the >>> >>> end >>> >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >>> >>> because >>> >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy >>> >>> is >>> >>> :). >>> >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >>> >>> them >>> >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game >>> >>> of >>> >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but >>> >>> could >>> >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>> >>> >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be >>> >>> known >>> >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They >>> >>> don't >>> >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>> >>> >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't >>> >>> need >>> >>> to >>> >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I >>> >>> don't even notice the difference. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>> >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>> >>> >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>> >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>> >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>> >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to >>> >>> what >>> >>> effect?" >>> >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>> >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a >>> >>> series on "person first language". >>> >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>> >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>> >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association >>> >>> or >>> >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of >>> >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>> >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>> >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up >>> >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>> >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>> >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>> >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>> >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>> >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>> >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>> >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>> >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>> >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>> >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a >>> >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>> >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>> >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there >>> >>> are “people with disabilities.” >>> >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>> >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>> >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>> >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually >>> >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics >>> >>> point >>> >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>> >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and >>> >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>> >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who >>> >>> runs >>> >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>> >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, >>> >>> been >>> >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have >>> >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put >>> >>> to >>> >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first >>> >>> language >>> >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH >>> >>> AUTISM >>> >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis >>> >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>> >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>> >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has >>> >>> written >>> >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that >>> >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>> >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein >>> >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with >>> >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>> >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>> >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>> >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>> >>> through language.” >>> >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>> >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>> >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>> >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is >>> >>> the >>> >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer >>> >>> to >>> >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman >>> >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>> >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is >>> >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>> >>> autism. >>> >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>> >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>> >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>> >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two >>> >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of >>> >>> diseases >>> >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what >>> >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>> >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>> >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if >>> >>> it >>> >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>> >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>> >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >>> >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>> >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, >>> >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>> >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness >>> >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>> >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>> >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology >>> >>> enhances >>> >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health >>> >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>> >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>> >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>> >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who >>> >>> stutters” >>> >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion >>> >>> that >>> >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer >>> >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>> >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: >>> >>> This >>> >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>> >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>> >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going >>> >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>> >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>> >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>> >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National >>> >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what >>> >>> it >>> >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use >>> >>> person-first >>> >>> language >>> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>> >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally >>> >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is >>> >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the >>> >>> adjectives >>> >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>> >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>> >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>> >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non >>> >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>> >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with >>> >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One >>> >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, >>> >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist >>> >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>> >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie >>> >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to >>> >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it >>> >>> strong >>> >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>> >>> years.” >>> >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated >>> >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>> >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some >>> >>> even >>> >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than >>> >>> referring >>> >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>> >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and >>> >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>> >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can >>> >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>> >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>> >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>> >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>> >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>> >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>> >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism >>> >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad >>> >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>> >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their >>> >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>> >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by >>> >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>> >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>> >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>> >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>> >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>> >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m >>> >>> talking >>> >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I >>> >>> am >>> >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If >>> >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>> >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>> >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first >>> >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>> >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>> >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>> >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>> >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>> >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>> >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ >>> >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>> >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>> >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>> >>> ________________End of message________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for >>> >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>> >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>> >>> >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>> >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>> >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>> >>> >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web >>> >>> page. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 19:43:02 2012 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:43:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20121219231934.01c98720@comcast.net> <1C302DAD-38C7-43CD-A0D1-DC9E4C25150D@samobile.net> Message-ID: Hi all, This is a truly interesting and thought-provoking thread. In the Spring of 2012, Emory University began a "disability dialogues". Basically, students, faculty and staff had hte opportunity to participate in this dialogue which met once a week for eight weeks. during these dialogues we discussed different aspects of disabilities, everything from public policy to disability and sexuality. I was first exposed to the idea of "person first" during these dialogues, and quite frankly hadn't given it much thought again until this thread began. I tend to agree with Kurt, that the idea of "person first" was born from an effort to humanize people with disabilities, which is, when you think about it, a great idea. The point was to make a "blind person", not be a "blind person" but someone who was a student, teacher, woman, man, who happened to be blind. The point is to make the general public think of us beyond the white cane, beyond all the misconceptions that come with blindness. Arielle wrote, "... so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a positive identity that I share with all of you." While all of us who are in some way part of the NFB understand that blindness is a characteristic, a trait, and aspect of us, that has shaped us but does not define us, the majority of the world does not see it that way. Isn't that part of our philosophy after all? To change the misconceptions about blindness? So for most of us, like Arielle, blindness could be a positive trait, but I think you will be hard put to pull someone who is sighted off the street, and have them agree that blindness is a positive trait. And it is the case that when it comes to disabilities people judge us by our disabilities and not by our individual traits. We struggle with that everyday. Looking for employment, u will walk into a potential employer's office, who will immediately focus on your disability not the rest of you. Walking in the streets every single day, someone will try to help you, even though you are clearly getting by just fine. And language is an incredibly important and vital part of society. The names we give to things, the ways we refer to them literally shape thought. So, yes, I see the point in "person first". Whether it is practical in its application, and whether I prefer to be referred s a "woman who is blind" is a separate and more complex matter. I don't know that making such a fuss about being referred as person then disability is the best way to change misconceptions. I feel that in some ways it actually draws more attention to the fact that the person is different. Most of us refer to ourselves, if it is appropriate as blind people. And like Brandon says, being blind is often not even part of whatever aspect of ourselves we trying to define. I am a Latino woman, I am a blind woman, I am a short woman. I take pride in all of those, yes, even the short part. But depending on the context, I will not always bring up those characteristics. Ok, I feel like i'm making less sense as I continue to write, so let me try to sum it up. "person first" is a good idea, based on some solid theories. However, in practice it is cumbersome, and might, in the long run do more harm than good, as it creates unnatural speech patterns, thereby drawing more attention to the very characteristic it is trying to de-emphasize. Thanks. Mary On 12/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Carley, Jedi and all, > I'm not saying I like person-first language, neither am I suggesting > its application is helpful or appropriate. I am, however, of the > belief that the intention behind person-first language is to increase > the belief that disabled people are people first and foremost, instead > of walking, talking, breathing disabilities. I'm sure we've all been > treated as though we are blindness, (Carley, incidentally, that is the > only part of being blind I find to be more than an inconvenience), and > I think the people who propogated person-first language were trying to > eliminate this second-class treatment. Ironically enough, I think the > actual application of person-first language has had an effect counter > to its original intentions, but I can at least respect the desires > behind the effort. Am I making any sense? > Warmest regards, and happy holidays, > Kirt > > On 12/20/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: >> That is a fabulous question! I would also be very interested in knowing >> who >> started the person first movement. If it was The disabled community who >> started it, which group was it exactly and why? If it was the nondisabled >> group that started it, which group was it and why? I wonder, if it were >> persons with disabilities who started this, if they would be happy with >> the >> results if they knew how it will turn out. If memory serves, it was the >> Secretary of Education the started person first language. There was a >> memorandum sent out to government officials and workers in the early >> 1990s >> shortly after the passage of the Americans with disabilities act. This >> memorandum gave extremely specific instructions on how various disability >> groups ought to be referred to. But that still does not answer a question >> of >> how person first language actually got started. It does however, describe >> how person first language was propagated. >> >> Respect fully submitted >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 20, 2012, at 1:23 AM, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >>> Listen, I don't know much about this "person first," nonsense but I >>> would >>> guess that this whole concept of addressing the person first was, like >>> talking about a Black, or gay person, thought up by folk who aren't >>> themselves, Black, or gay, no? This idea of nonmembers labeling us >>> horrifies me. A step toward self determination, in my view, is to figure >>> out what makes how we ought to be identified. >>> Car 2012, you wrote: >>>> Ashley, >>>> For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome >>>> and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or >>>> "people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our >>>> society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on >>>> person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least >>>> trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather >>>> than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something >>>> to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be >>>> blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like >>>> that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at >>>> least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first >>>> language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and >>>> marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world >>>> recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in >>>> terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that >>>> recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> > Arielle, >>>> > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. >>>> > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the >>>> > person >>>> > to describe them. >>>> > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. >>>> > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a >>>> > disability >>>> > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. >>>> > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome >>>> > to >>>> > me. >>>> > >>>> > Ashley >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Arielle Silverman >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>> > >>>> > Hi all, >>>> > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness >>>> > or >>>> > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I >>>> > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is >>>> > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or >>>> > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the >>>> > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or >>>> > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more >>>> > appropriate? >>>> > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for >>>> > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere >>>> > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their >>>> > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual >>>> > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their >>>> > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are >>>> > accustomed >>>> > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also >>>> > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent >>>> > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" >>>> > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome >>>> > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for >>>> > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind >>>> > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community >>>> > I >>>> > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an >>>> > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as >>>> > "people >>>> > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a >>>> > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I >>>> > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually >>>> > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my >>>> > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB >>>> > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the >>>> > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention >>>> > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I >>>> > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness >>>> > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including >>>> > them >>>> > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is >>>> > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out >>>> > there >>>> > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if >>>> > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. >>>> > Arielle >>>> > >>>> > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: >>>> >> Brandon, >>>> >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >> >>>> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Hello, >>>> >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped >>>> >>> and >>>> >>> what >>>> >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to >>>> >>> some >>>> >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a >>>> >>> guy >>>> >>> on >>>> >>> my >>>> >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was >>>> >>> talking >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about >>>> >>> following >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> leader as a blind person. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking >>>> >>> about >>>> >>> my >>>> >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in >>>> >>> reference >>>> >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are >>>> >>> aspects >>>> >>> where >>>> >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at >>>> >>> the >>>> >>> end >>>> >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only >>>> >>> because >>>> >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy >>>> >>> is >>>> >>> :). >>>> >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped >>>> >>> them >>>> >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game >>>> >>> of >>>> >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but >>>> >>> could >>>> >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to >>>> >>> be >>>> >>> known >>>> >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. >>>> >>> They >>>> >>> don't >>>> >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't >>>> >>> need >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). >>>> >>> I >>>> >>> don't even notice the difference. >>>> >>> Thanks, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM >>>> >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very >>>> >>> interesting. What do you guys think? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> >>> From: LILITH Finkler >>>> >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 >>>> >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to >>>> >>> what >>>> >>> effect?" >>>> >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of >>>> >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> series on "person first language". >>>> >>> Lilith=========================================================================================== >>>> >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, >>>> >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association >>>> >>> or >>>> >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions >>>> >>> of >>>> >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical >>>> >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what >>>> >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew >>>> >>> up >>>> >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in >>>> >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in >>>> >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia >>>> >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency >>>> >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid >>>> >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the >>>> >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis >>>> >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who >>>> >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. >>>> >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language >>>> >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting >>>> >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere >>>> >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, >>>> >>> there >>>> >>> are “people with disabilities.” >>>> >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first >>>> >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition >>>> >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the >>>> >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it >>>> >>> actually >>>> >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics >>>> >>> point >>>> >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with >>>> >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, >>>> >>> and >>>> >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative >>>> >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who >>>> >>> runs >>>> >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). >>>> >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, >>>> >>> been >>>> >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels >>>> >>> have >>>> >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first >>>> >>> language >>>> >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH >>>> >>> AUTISM >>>> >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a >>>> >>> diagnosis >>>> >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the >>>> >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited >>>> >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has >>>> >>> written >>>> >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests >>>> >>> that >>>> >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more >>>> >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar >>>> >>> vein >>>> >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people >>>> >>> with >>>> >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if >>>> >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must >>>> >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote >>>> >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is >>>> >>> through language.” >>>> >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been >>>> >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents >>>> >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other >>>> >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is >>>> >>> the >>>> >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf >>>> >>> woman >>>> >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who >>>> >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who >>>> >>> is >>>> >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with >>>> >>> autism. >>>> >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, >>>> >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely >>>> >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt >>>> >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into >>>> >>> two >>>> >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of >>>> >>> diseases >>>> >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of >>>> >>> what >>>> >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered >>>> >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. >>>> >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if >>>> >>> it >>>> >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people >>>> >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing >>>> >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the >>>> >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more >>>> >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. >>>> >>> Louis, >>>> >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized >>>> >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental >>>> >>> illness >>>> >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first >>>> >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative >>>> >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology >>>> >>> enhances >>>> >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet >>>> >>> health >>>> >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest >>>> >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific >>>> >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language >>>> >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who >>>> >>> stutters” >>>> >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion >>>> >>> that >>>> >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a >>>> >>> stutterer >>>> >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. >>>> >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: >>>> >>> This >>>> >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the >>>> >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the >>>> >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are >>>> >>> going >>>> >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using >>>> >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some >>>> >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt >>>> >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The >>>> >>> National >>>> >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what >>>> >>> it >>>> >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use >>>> >>> person-first >>>> >>> language >>>> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The >>>> >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has >>>> >>> unequivocally >>>> >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose >>>> >>> is >>>> >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the >>>> >>> adjectives >>>> >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” >>>> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). >>>> >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” >>>> >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word >>>> >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker >>>> >>> non >>>> >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and >>>> >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people >>>> >>> with >>>> >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. >>>> >>> One >>>> >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from >>>> >>> Chilliwack, >>>> >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left >>>> >>> wrist >>>> >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if >>>> >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” >>>> >>> Christie >>>> >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it >>>> >>> strong >>>> >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more >>>> >>> years.” >>>> >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly >>>> >>> heated >>>> >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of >>>> >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some >>>> >>> even >>>> >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than >>>> >>> referring >>>> >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with >>>> >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity >>>> >>> and >>>> >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called >>>> >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism >>>> >>> can >>>> >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to >>>> >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network >>>> >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that >>>> >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe >>>> >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a >>>> >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” >>>> >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate >>>> >>> autism >>>> >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so >>>> >>> bad >>>> >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” >>>> >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying >>>> >>> their >>>> >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their >>>> >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken >>>> >>> by >>>> >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with >>>> >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use >>>> >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e >>>> >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of >>>> >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will >>>> >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m >>>> >>> talking >>>> >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I >>>> >>> am >>>> >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. >>>> >>> If >>>> >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” >>>> >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings >>>> >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find >>>> >>> person-first >>>> >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so >>>> >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and >>>> >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart >>>> >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a >>>> >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: >>>> >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible >>>> >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook >>>> >>> Google+ >>>> >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this >>>> >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ >>>> >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text >>>> >>> ________________End of message________________ >>>> >>> >>>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds >>>> >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to >>>> >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: >>>> >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html >>>> >>> >>>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this >>>> >>> web >>>> >>> page. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." — Maya Angelou From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Dec 20 20:35:26 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:35:26 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? In-Reply-To: References: <5C19D4765C044DB79957210D7A7C9679@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20121219231934.01c98720@comcast.net> <1C302DAD-38C7-43CD-A0D1-DC9E4C25150D@samobile.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121220122722.01ed6678@comcast.net> Good morning, Kirt, and other interesteds, Trying to fix a perceived problem with policy is always way over thought, thought up by some social scientists behind desks with little, to no experience living as a person whose social positioning they seek to improve. is trying to protect. People ought to have noticed how awkward and cumbersome, even divisive is such a construct, that blindness is just fine. Car >Carley, Jedi and all, > I'm not saying I like person-first language, neither am I suggesting >its application is helpful or appropriate. I am, however, of the >belief that the intention behind person-first language is to increase >the belief that disabled people are people first and foremost, instead >of walking, talking, breathing disabilities. I'm sure we've all been >treated as though we are blindness, (Carley, incidentally, that is the >only part of being blind I find to be more than an inconvenience), and >I think the people who propogated person-first language were trying to >eliminate this second-class treatment. Ironically enough, I think the >actual application of person-first language has had an effect counter >to its original intentions, but I can at least respect the desires >behind the effort. Am I making any sense? > Warmest regards, and happy holidays, >Kirt > >On 12/20/12, Jedi Moerke wrote: > > That is a fabulous question! I would also be very interested in knowing who > > started the person first movement. If it was The disabled community who > > started it, which group was it exactly and why? If it was the nondisabled > > group that started it, which group was it and why? I wonder, if it were > > persons with disabilities who started this, if they would be happy with the > > results if they knew how it will turn out. If memory serves, it was the > > Secretary of Education the started person first language. There was a > > memorandum sent out to government officials and workers in the early 1990s > > shortly after the passage of the Americans with disabilities act. This > > memorandum gave extremely specific instructions on how various disability > > groups ought to be referred to. But that > still does not answer a question of > > how person first language actually got started. It does however, describe > > how person first language was propagated. > > > > Respect fully submitted > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Dec 20, 2012, at 1:23 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > >> Listen, I don't know much about this "person first," nonsense but I would > >> guess that this whole concept of addressing the person first was, like > >> talking about a Black, or gay person, thought up by folk who aren't > >> themselves, Black, or gay, no? This idea of nonmembers labeling us > >> horrifies me. A step toward self determination, in my view, is to figure > >> out what makes how we ought to be identified. > >> Car 2012, you wrote: > >>> Ashley, > >>> For myself, I mostly agree that person-first language is cumbersome > >>> and doesn't really address the real problems disabled people (or > >>> "people with disabilities", if anyone cares) still face in our > >>> society. However, the fact that the "sighted world" insists on > >>> person-first language indicates, to me, that people are at least > >>> trying to think of us as people who happen to have disabilities rather > >>> than disabled people. I've often heard Federationists say something > >>> to the effect of "I'm not a blind person!!! I just happen to be > >>> blind, and there's a real difference!" I think that statements like > >>> that from disabled people (which are totally understandable) have, at > >>> least in part, inspired the professional world to adopt person-first > >>> language. I don't think it's the right answer to descrimination and > >>> marginalization, but at least the powers that be in the academic world > >>> recognize, on paper if nothing else, that people often define us in > >>> terms of our disabilities and not who we really are. Surely, that > >>> recognition is at least a small step in the right direction? > >>> Just my thoughts, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 12/19/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >>> > Arielle, > >>> > Well said. I prefer just blind people as well. > >>> > Its interesting to me that we usually put the adjectives before the > >>> > person > >>> > to describe them. > >>> > We do not say person with black hair but we say black haired person. > >>> > We will not say person who is tall but tall person. Yet with a > >>> > disability > >>> > we have to say person first. It seems odd to me. > >>> > Just say deaf person, blind person, etc. It sounds less cumbersome to > >>> > me. > >>> > > >>> > Ashley > >>> > > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: Arielle Silverman > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:07 PM > >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>> > > >>> > Hi all, > >>> > The question of whether we describe ourselves in terms of blindness or > >>> > in terms of other traits we have is an interesting one as well, but I > >>> > think that's a different question from what the article I posted is > >>> > asking about. The article is asking what we should call ourselves (or > >>> > what others should call us) in discussions where blindness is the > >>> > focus. Should we refer to ourselves as "people who are blind" or > >>> > "people with blindness" or is the term "blind people" more > >>> > appropriate? > >>> > I find this issue to be personally relevant because I am applying for > >>> > a job with a blindness research group, and I noticed that everywhere > >>> > in their online materials, publications etc. they refer to their > >>> > research participants as "people who are blind", "youth with visual > >>> > impairments" etc. I don't think this necessarily reflects on their > >>> > philosophy, but is probably just the language that they are accustomed > >>> > to using and that is required by journals and other outlets. I also > >>> > co-authored a paper a few years ago and one journal to which we sent > >>> > the paper insisted that we use the term "people with blindness" > >>> > throughout the entire manuscript, which I found extremely cumbersome > >>> > and awkward. Anyway, in applying for this job it has been strange for > >>> > me to either use the term "people who are blind" or to say "blind > >>> > people" and risk causing offense. As a member of the blind community I > >>> > feel on some level that everyone in this community are members of an > >>> > extended family, and so it's weird to refer to all you guys as "people > >>> > who are blind" and distance them from blindness, which I consider a > >>> > positive identity that I share with all of you. This is also why I > >>> > like to call someone with partial sight "blind" rather than "visually > >>> > impaired" because calling them "blind" is welcoming them into my > >>> > blindness family and community. Those of you who are NFB members, ACB > >>> > members or part of any blindness organization probably understand the > >>> > collective pride and joy that can rise up when we are in a convention > >>> > assembly and call ourselves "the blind". Looking at it that way, I > >>> > feel like it's almost insulting to refer to members of my blindness > >>> > family as just "people who are blind" rather than fully including them > >>> > with the label "blind people". So I understand what the article is > >>> > talking about. At the same time, I wonder if there are folks out there > >>> > who truly prefer to be called people who are blind instead, and if > >>> > they feel this is putting their humanity before their blindness. > >>> > Arielle > >>> > > >>> > On 12/11/12, Kirt wrote: > >>> >> Brandon, > >>> >> Thank you for writing my email for me. :-) > >>> >> > >>> >> Sent from my iPhone > >>> >> > >>> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >>> Hello, > >>> >>> I used to call myself: "A blind actor" but recently I've stopped and > >>> >>> what > >>> >>> I've noticed is that often times people forget you are blind to some > >>> >>> extent when you don't even say you are blind. I was talking to a guy > >>> >>> on > >>> >>> my > >>> >>> dance teem and he said he had no idea I was blind until I was talking > >>> >>> to > >>> >>> my teacher after a conference and mentioned something about following > >>> >>> a > >>> >>> leader as a blind person. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I personally think it matters in a context. If people are talking > >>> >>> about > >>> >>> my > >>> >>> acting ability, I don't want to be known as a "blind actor" in > >>> >>> reference > >>> >>> to my acting ability, that would just be negative. There are aspects > >>> >>> where > >>> >>> saying blind actor or actor who is blind would be appropriate at the > >>> >>> end > >>> >>> of an article or possibly at the end of a bio, but that is only > >>> >>> because > >>> >>> people like the challenge of trying to figure out who the blind guy > >>> >>> is > >>> >>> :). > >>> >>> I ask them after a show and they tell me what they saw that tipped > >>> >>> them > >>> >>> off. This helps me in becoming more natural and makes a little game > >>> >>> of > >>> >>> something that is of no major import for that point of time, but > >>> >>> could > >>> >>> mean me getting or losing a job later on. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> If I was in an article about genetic research, I would like it to be > >>> >>> known > >>> >>> that I'm blind first, because that is what is being tested for. They > >>> >>> don't > >>> >>> really care about me as a person, they just want to know I'm blind. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> If I'm talking to a director or agent about my singing, they don't > >>> >>> need > >>> >>> to > >>> >>> know I'm blind, they want to know my voice type and my best rolls. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I'm a blind person who happens to be blind and I'm OK with both :). I > >>> >>> don't even notice the difference. > >>> >>> Thanks, > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:40 PM > >>> >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Are we blind people or people who are blind? > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I saw the below article on another list and thought it was very > >>> >>> interesting. What do you guys think? > >>> >>> > >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>> >>> From: LILITH Finkler > >>> >>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:41:42 -0300 > >>> >>> Subject: New Article: "Person-first language: Noble intent but to > >>> >>> what > >>> >>> effect?" > >>> >>> To: DISABILITY-RESEARCH at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Dear Colleagues. Please see article below from the current issue of > >>> >>> the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The journal is publishing a > >>> >>> series on "person first language". > >>> >>> > Lilith=========================================================================================== > >>> >>> CMAJ December 11, 2012 vol. 184 no. 18 First published November 5, > >>> >>> 2012, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-4319© 2012 Canadian Medical Association > >>> >>> or > >>> >>> its licensorsAll editorial matter in CMAJ represents the opinions of > >>> >>> the authors and not necessarily those of the Canadian Medical > >>> >>> Association.NewsPerson-first language: Noble intent but to what > >>> >>> effect?Roger Collier-Author AffiliationsCMAJKenneth St. Louis grew up > >>> >>> with a moderate stutter that he eventually got under control in > >>> >>> college. His struggle with stuttering led to an interest in > >>> >>> speech-language pathology, which he now teaches at West Virginia > >>> >>> University in Morgan-town. St. Louis is an expert in fluency > >>> >>> disorders, including cluttering, a condition characterized by rapid > >>> >>> speech with an erratic rhythm. Once, after a journal sent him the > >>> >>> edited version of a paper he had submitted on cluttering, St. Louis > >>> >>> noticed something curious.“They changed ‘clutterer’ to ‘person who > >>> >>> clutters’ all the way through,” says St. Louis.The changes to St. > >>> >>> Louis’ prose stem from the person-first (or people-first) language > >>> >>> movement, which began some 20 years ago to promote the concept that a > >>> >>> person shouldn’t be defined by a diagnosis. By literally putting > >>> >>> “person” first in language, what was once a label becomes a mere > >>> >>> characteristic. No longer are there “disabled people.” Instead, there > >>> >>> are “people with disabilities.” > >>> >>> No reasonable person would challenge the intent behind person-first > >>> >>> language. Who, after all, would prefer to be known as a condition > >>> >>> rather than as a person? But is this massive effort to change the > >>> >>> language of disability and disease having any effect? Is it actually > >>> >>> changing attitudes, reducing stigma or improving lives? Skeptics > >>> >>> point > >>> >>> to the nonexistent body of evidence. Advocates claim it starts with > >>> >>> language and that results will follow.Words are indeed powerful, and > >>> >>> they can perpetuate hurtful stereotypes and reinforce negative > >>> >>> attitudes, suggests Kathie Snow, a disability rights advocate who > >>> >>> runs > >>> >>> the “Disability is Natural” website (www.disabilityisnatural.com). > >>> >>> “People with developmental disabilities have, throughout history, > >>> >>> been > >>> >>> marginalized and devalued because of labels,” she says. “Labels have > >>> >>> always caused people to be devalued. It has caused people to be put > >>> >>> to > >>> >>> death, to be sterilized against their will.”If a person-first > >>> >>> language > >>> >>> advocate had commissioned this sign, it would read: “CHILD WITH > >>> >>> AUTISM > >>> >>> AREA.”Image courtesy of © 2012 ThinkstockSuggesting that a diagnosis > >>> >>> is a person’s most important characteristic reinforces the > >>> >>> all-too-common opinion that people with disabilities have limited > >>> >>> potential and society should expect little from them, Snow has > >>> >>> written > >>> >>> (www.disabilityisnatural.com/images/PDF/pfl09.pdf). She suggests that > >>> >>> the disability rights movement is changing language to be more > >>> >>> respectful rather than merely politically correct, in a similar vein > >>> >>> to past efforts by civil rights and women’s movements.“If people with > >>> >>> disabilities are to be included in all aspects of society, and if > >>> >>> they’re to be respected and valued as our fellow citizens, we must > >>> >>> stop using language that marginalizes and sets them apart,” wrote > >>> >>> Snow. “History tells us that the first way to devalue a person is > >>> >>> through language.” > >>> >>> The global movement to promote person-first language has been > >>> >>> extremely successful. It is now standard in government documents > >>> >>> around the world, as well as in scientific journals and many other > >>> >>> publications. Widespread adoption of this grammatical structure is > >>> >>> the > >>> >>> reason that, present sentence excepted, this article will not refer > >>> >>> to > >>> >>> a stutterer, a cancer patient, a diabetic, a blind man, a deaf woman > >>> >>> or an autistic person. It might, however, refer to a person who > >>> >>> stutters, a person with cancer, a person with diabetes, a man who is > >>> >>> visually impaired, a woman who is hearing impaired or a person with > >>> >>> autism. > >>> >>> But some people, including members of several disability groups, > >>> >>> aren’t big fans of person-first language. They claim it is merely > >>> >>> political correctness run amok, verbosity intended to spare hurt > >>> >>> feelings yet accomplishing little more than turning one word into two > >>> >>> or more words. Even worse, some suggest, tucking the names of > >>> >>> diseases > >>> >>> and disabilities in the shadows may have the opposite effect of what > >>> >>> is intended. It could stigmatize words that were never considered > >>> >>> derogatory or pejorative in the first place. > >>> >>> St. Louis’ introduction to person-first language made him wonder if > >>> >>> it > >>> >>> actually had an effect on opinions about words used to label people > >>> >>> with various conditions, including speech, language and hearing > >>> >>> disorders (J Fluency Discord 1999;24:1­24). He found that the > >>> >>> person-first version of a label was regarded as “significantly more > >>> >>> positive” in only 2% of comparisons. “For example,” wrote St. Louis, > >>> >>> “with the exception of widely known terms that have stigmatized > >>> >>> individuals (e.g., ‘Moron’), terms identifying serious mental illness > >>> >>> (‘psychosis’) or dreaded diseases (‘leprosy’), person-first > >>> >>> nomenclature made little difference in minimizing negative > >>> >>> reactions.”There is no evidence that person-first terminology > >>> >>> enhances > >>> >>> sensitivity or reduces insensitivity, notes St. Louis, and yet health > >>> >>> professionals and scholarly publishers are now among its strongest > >>> >>> advocates. Good luck getting your work published in a scientific > >>> >>> journal if you don’t conform. In the field of speech-language > >>> >>> pathology, terms such as “person who stutters” or “child who > >>> >>> stutters” > >>> >>> have even become acronyms (PWS and CWS). To St. Louis, the notion > >>> >>> that > >>> >>> calling someone a PWS is more sensitive than calling them a stutterer > >>> >>> is nothing short of ludicrous. > >>> >>> “It’s not really about sensitivity,” says St. Louis. “It’s about: > >>> >>> This > >>> >>> is just the way it’s done.”Furthermore, suggests St. Louis, the > >>> >>> sentiment expressed in communication is far more important than the > >>> >>> linguistic circumlocutions present in the language. “If you are going > >>> >>> to be a jerk,” he says, “you can be just as much of a jerk using > >>> >>> person-first language as using the direct label.”Members of some > >>> >>> disability groups have become so fed up with pressure to adopt > >>> >>> person-first language that they have begun pushing back. The National > >>> >>> Federation for the Blind in the United States has long opposed what > >>> >>> it > >>> >>> perceives as “an unholy crusade” to force everyone to use > >>> >>> person-first > >>> >>> language > >>> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090309.htm).The > >>> >>> federation’s main publication, the Braille Monitor, has unequivocally > >>> >>> defended its right “to cling to its conviction that vigorous prose is > >>> >>> a virtue and that blind people can stand to read one of the > >>> >>> adjectives > >>> >>> that describe them before they arrive at the noun” > >>> >>> (www.nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm09/bm0903/bm090308.htm). > >>> >>> “Blind people we are, and we are content to be described as such.” > >>> >>> Many people with diabetes are also surprised to learn that the word > >>> >>> “diabetic” is now considered taboo. Who turned it into a moniker non > >>> >>> grata? Not people with diabetes, apparently. Type “diabetic” and > >>> >>> “tattoo” into Google Images and you’ll find thousands of people with > >>> >>> the condition who have the word permanently inked on their skin. One > >>> >>> of those people is Tanyss Christie, a mother of two from Chilliwack, > >>> >>> British Columbia, who has “diabetic” tattooed on her inner left wrist > >>> >>> in a style similar to a MedicAlert bracelet. Would she be upset if > >>> >>> someone called her a diabetic?“No, I wouldn’t be offended,” Christie > >>> >>> writes in an email. “Diabetes is me and who I am and I don’t need to > >>> >>> hide that; I am a diabetic and have been for 29 years. I say it > >>> >>> strong > >>> >>> because I survived such a hard disease and hope to [for] many more > >>> >>> years.” > >>> >>> The topic of person-first language seems to stir particularly heated > >>> >>> debate among people affected by autism. In general, parents of > >>> >>> children with autism appear to prefer person-first language. Some > >>> >>> even > >>> >>> suggest that saying “autistic child” is not much better than > >>> >>> referring > >>> >>> to someone with cancer as a “cancerous person.” Many adults with > >>> >>> autism, however, believe that autism is central to their identity and > >>> >>> prefer to use terms such as “autistic person.” This has been called > >>> >>> identify-first language.Person-first language implies that autism can > >>> >>> be separated from the person, which simply isn’t true, according to > >>> >>> Jim Sinclair, an adult with autism who cofounded the Autism Network > >>> >>> International. In a widely circulated essay, Sinclair wrote that > >>> >>> autism is such an essential feature of his being that to describe > >>> >>> himself as a person with autism would be akin to calling a parent a > >>> >>> “person with offspring” or calling a man a person “with maleness” > >>> >>> (www.cafemom.com/journals/read/436505). Attempting to separate autism > >>> >>> from personhood also “suggests that autism is something bad — so bad > >>> >>> that it isn’t even consistent with being a person.” > >>> >>> Then there are those who take a more moderate position, varying their > >>> >>> language according to their audience so that focus remains on their > >>> >>> message rather than how it’s delivered. This is the approach taken by > >>> >>> Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg, a writer who chronicles her “journeys with > >>> >>> autism” on her blog (www.journeyswithautism.com).“I will use > >>> >>> person-first (i.e. person with autism) and identity-first (i.e > >>> >>> autistic person) language interchangeably, partly for the sake of > >>> >>> variety, and partly to resist the ideologues on both sides. I will > >>> >>> also vary my language to suit my audience. For example, if I’m > >>> >>> talking > >>> >>> with people who prefer identity-first language, I will use it. If I > >>> >>> am > >>> >>> talking to people who prefer person-first language, I will use it. If > >>> >>> I am talking to a mixed group, I will likely mix my terminology,” > >>> >>> Cohen-Rottenberg writes in an email. “I find that people’s feelings > >>> >>> can run so high regarding language that, even if I find person-first > >>> >>> language very problematic, I’ll use it with people who favor it so > >>> >>> that we don’t end up getting derailed into language discussions and > >>> >>> away from the issue at hand.”Editor’s note: First of a multipart > >>> >>> series.Part II: Person-first language: What it means to be a > >>> >>> “person”(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4322).Part III: > >>> >>> Person-first language: Laudable cause, horrible > >>> >>> prose(www.cmaj.ca/lookup/doi/10.1503/cmaj.109-4338).Facebook Google+ > >>> >>> LinkedIn Reddit StumbleUpon TwitterWhat's this?Responses to this > >>> >>> articleMaria Z GittaDo we really need to ask 'to what effect'?CMAJ > >>> >>> published online November 7, 2012Full Text > >>> >>> ________________End of message________________ > >>> >>> > >>> >>> This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for > >>> >>> Disability Studies at the University of Leeds > >>> >>> (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Enquiries about list administration should be sent to > >>> >>> disability-research-request at jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Archives and tools are located at: > >>> >>> www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > >>> >>> > >>> >>> You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web > >>> >>> page. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> >>> nabs-l: > >>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> >>> nabs-l: > >>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 15:48:52 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:48:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] http://jewishrockradio.com/# Message-ID: http://jewishrockradio.com/ -- From leyeshprintse at ymail.com Fri Dec 21 20:34:59 2012 From: leyeshprintse at ymail.com (Leye-Shprintse) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 21:34:59 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] .PRM Files and Apple's Products Message-ID: <4F7EC7C7-0D7A-4AB9-8909-CABF6CB73AA0@ymail.com> BS"D Dear NABS, I wonder if some of you know if it is possible to read .prm files on Apple's products? Thank you! Leye-Shprintse Envoyé de mon iPad From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 22 03:16:24 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:16:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online In-Reply-To: <004701cddb37$12aa0930$37fe1b90$@gmail.com> References: <3250D4D4DED84891938AC1FD3CB47513@OwnerPC> <004701cddb37$12aa0930$37fe1b90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Chris, Thanks for that info. I didn't realize the braille note only played those types of streaming audio. Still not bad for a machine that is primarily a notetaker. How do you use that site you referenced? I checked it and it doesn't seem to have radio links. Do you click on the country you want and the state and then search for a station? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 9:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Hi Ashley, For streaming on the PC, I would recommend www.tunein.com. If you have an iOS device, TuneIn also has a very accessible app called TuneIn Radio. On the BrailleNote, I use www.tuned.mobi. Keep in mind that the BrailleNote will only play those streams which are in MP3 or WMP3 format. Unfortunately, the BrailleNote won't play streams which are in AAC or Flash format at this time. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Hi all, What streaming websites do you like? Can you navigate them okay? I wanted to know what your experience has been with streaming audio on your notetaker and computer. What websites do you use? How accessible are they? What type of music is offered? Also, do you pay a subscription and how often? I know some websites offer radio service online and thought that might be an option via the notetaker as well. How cool it would be to listen to radio or music wirelessly on campus, at a café, or a hotel. Thanks. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 22 03:36:43 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:36:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy Message-ID: Hi all, I’m preparing to visit my brother, his wife, and my new nephew for Christmas. It will be a different Christmas away from home, but we still have the presents and homemade feast. I just hope the weather and traffic isn’t bad as we drive to MA. To all who celebrate, Merry Christmas. Ashley From jty727 at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 03:52:04 2012 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:52:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Merry Christmas to you too Ashley & all who celebrate! On 12/21/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I’m preparing to visit my brother, his wife, and my new nephew for > Christmas. It will be a different Christmas away from home, but we still > have the presents and homemade feast. > I just hope the weather and traffic isn’t bad as we drive to MA. > > To all who celebrate, Merry Christmas. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From iperrault at hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 04:43:12 2012 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 23:43:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard Message-ID: Hi How is the braille Bluetooth keyboard for the IPhone and IPad? I have an IPhone and am considering getting one. Does the braille keyboard also have a braille display, or is that separate? Where can you get one? Ian From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 04:50:55 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 23:50:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006a01cddfff$ee060980$ca121c80$@gmail.com> Ian, Which Braille Bluetooth keyboard are you referring to? Merry Christmas, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ian Perrault Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard Hi How is the braille Bluetooth keyboard for the IPhone and IPad? I have an IPhone and am considering getting one. Does the braille keyboard also have a braille display, or is that separate? Where can you get one? Ian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 05:01:34 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:01:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006c01cde001$6b04acb0$410e0610$@gmail.com> Ashley, Sounds wonderful! We are heading out to Kansas on Sunday to see our family there for Christmas! Merry Christmas to all!!! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy Hi all, I’m preparing to visit my brother, his wife, and my new nephew for Christmas. It will be a different Christmas away from home, but we still have the presents and homemade feast. I just hope the weather and traffic isn’t bad as we drive to MA. To all who celebrate, Merry Christmas. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 05:02:51 2012 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:02:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard In-Reply-To: <006a01cddfff$ee060980$ca121c80$@gmail.com> References: <006a01cddfff$ee060980$ca121c80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I didn't know trhat there was more than one. I thought that there was just one that works with the IPhone and IPad. From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 05:04:24 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:04:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online In-Reply-To: References: <3250D4D4DED84891938AC1FD3CB47513@OwnerPC> <004701cddb37$12aa0930$37fe1b90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006d01cde001$d076ad00$71640700$@gmail.com> Ashley, Yes; you would click on the country you want, for example USA. You will then find a list of states or provinces, depending on the country, from which you can choose the state that has the station you want to listen to. There will then be a list of stations. Click on any links that say MP3 or WMP3 and they should play. I hope this helps. Merry Christmas, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Chris, Thanks for that info. I didn't realize the braille note only played those types of streaming audio. Still not bad for a machine that is primarily a notetaker. How do you use that site you referenced? I checked it and it doesn't seem to have radio links. Do you click on the country you want and the state and then search for a station? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 9:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Hi Ashley, For streaming on the PC, I would recommend www.tunein.com. If you have an iOS device, TuneIn also has a very accessible app called TuneIn Radio. On the BrailleNote, I use www.tuned.mobi. Keep in mind that the BrailleNote will only play those streams which are in MP3 or WMP3 format. Unfortunately, the BrailleNote won't play streams which are in AAC or Flash format at this time. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] streaming audio and radio online Hi all, What streaming websites do you like? Can you navigate them okay? I wanted to know what your experience has been with streaming audio on your notetaker and computer. What websites do you use? How accessible are they? What type of music is offered? Also, do you pay a subscription and how often? I know some websites offer radio service online and thought that might be an option via the notetaker as well. How cool it would be to listen to radio or music wirelessly on campus, at a café, or a hotel. Thanks. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From brlsurfer at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 05:25:59 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 21:25:59 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline Message-ID: <50d5447b.8520340a.4670.0491@mx.google.com> Hi, I am a new user of NFB newsline. The problem is that my e-mail in their system is incorrect so I can't have anything sent to me. They gave a number to call, which I did, on Monday. But I still haven't gotten any responses. Has anyone else gone through anything similar? How did you fix this? Thanks, Vejas From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 22 05:36:06 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:36:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8837D0FD4F5044EC875D66E1FFAC0535@OwnerPC> I think you have to get them from assistive tech vendors like freedom scientific. -----Original Message----- From: Ian Perrault Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard Hi How is the braille Bluetooth keyboard for the IPhone and IPad? I have an IPhone and am considering getting one. Does the braille keyboard also have a braille display, or is that separate? Where can you get one? Ian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 22 05:50:06 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:50:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy In-Reply-To: <006c01cde001$6b04acb0$410e0610$@gmail.com> References: <006c01cde001$6b04acb0$410e0610$@gmail.com> Message-ID: well, safe travels to kansas, chris. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:01 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Christmas joy Ashley, Sounds wonderful! We are heading out to Kansas on Sunday to see our family there for Christmas! Merry Christmas to all!!! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy Hi all, I’m preparing to visit my brother, his wife, and my new nephew for Christmas. It will be a different Christmas away from home, but we still have the presents and homemade feast. I just hope the weather and traffic isn’t bad as we drive to MA. To all who celebrate, Merry Christmas. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 22 05:57:07 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:57:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Message-ID: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC> Hi all, My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have comtemplated playing music as well. Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic load like? I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and network, particularly for my friend. thanks, Ashley From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Dec 22 06:10:07 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 06:10:07 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists In-Reply-To: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC> References: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Music Talk NFBNet list. musictlk at nfbnet.org To subscribe, musictlk-request at nfbnet.org You know what to do from there. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Hi all, My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have comtemplated playing music as well. Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic load like? I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and network, particularly for my friend. thanks, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From brlsurfer at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 06:14:22 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:14:22 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Message-ID: <50d54fd2.467b3a0a.7bcb.2b99@mx.google.com> Hi, I'm=20on=20the=20music-talk=20list=20as=20well.=20=20The=20traffic=20isn't= =20bad=20at=20all=20 and=20it's=20a=20very=20fun=20list.=20=20I=20suggest=20you=20join. Vejas =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20 References: <50d54fd2.467b3a0a.7bcb.2b99@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi. Aside from the music-talk NFB list, there is the perform-talk list. You can find it at nfbnet.org. You can find them under the list of lists. Another great resource is MENVI: Music Education Network for Visually Impaired. They have a great list serve and news letter. I have enjoyed so much being on their list. It can be a bit high traffic at times, but nothing compared to this list. Let me know if your friend wants any other resources! On 12/22/12, vejas wrote: > Hi, > I'm on the music-talk list as well. The traffic isn't bad at all > and it's a very fun list. I suggest you join. > Vejas > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:57:07 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] music lists > > Hi all, > > My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have > comtemplated playing music as well. > > Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the > subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic > load like? > > I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and > network, particularly for my friend. > > thanks, > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g > mail.com > > > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 07:17:03 2012 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 02:17:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions Message-ID: Hi Everyone: I believe my aunt is going to get me a copy of Windows 8 on DVD for Christmas. I currently am running windows 7 with Jaws 14. Has anyone upgraded using a DVD copy of windows 8? After upgrading, were your files, music, and data restored or did you have to put everything back on from a backup? Should I back up everything before upgrading? I would normally back up everything anyway just to be safe, but the problem is right now I am on vacation and I do not have my portable hard drive with me in order to back up my music and documents. Right now, I have lots of sighted help available in case something goes wrong and when I return home I will not have much sighted help unless I hire a reader. So, I'd like to upgrade while I am still on vacation. If you have upgraded, was it accessible? Can you do the entire thing by yourself or did you have to have sighted assistance? Do you like windows 8? What are your thoughts? Is it worth upgrading to from windows 7? As I understand it, windows 8 comes with a Facebook tile/app thingy. Does it also come with a twitter tile/app as well? Are a lot of apps in the new Microsoft app store accessible? Thanks so much! Those are my questions for now! If I think of anything else I'll ask! Kerri From zdreicer at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 08:29:17 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 01:29:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] nfb newsline In-Reply-To: <50d5447b.8520340a.4670.0491@mx.google.com> References: <50d5447b.8520340a.4670.0491@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <372FE359-92C7-4C64-91E6-1D23885BD960@gmail.com> Email them Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:25 PM, vejas wrote: > Hi, > I am a new user of NFB newsline. > The problem is that my e-mail in their system is incorrect so I can't have anything sent to me. > They gave a number to call, which I did, on Monday. But I still haven't gotten any responses. > Has anyone else gone through anything similar? How did you fix this? > Thanks, > Vejas > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 14:58:44 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 09:58:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard In-Reply-To: <8837D0FD4F5044EC875D66E1FFAC0535@OwnerPC> References: <8837D0FD4F5044EC875D66E1FFAC0535@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <45378191-D3F0-40CF-BC4B-0CDA501C3A84@gmail.com> this would b y i am glad i learned the keyboard when i was in school. i would love to see a braille keyboard, but i would not have a use for 1. i am glad that they do have them for those have not learned the keyboard. i like the fact that some things are bein up dated. Sent from my iPad On Dec 22, 2012, at 12:36 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > I think you have to get them from assistive tech vendors like freedom scientific. > > -----Original Message----- From: Ian Perrault > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:43 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Bluetooth Braille Keyboard > > Hi > How is the braille Bluetooth keyboard for the IPhone and IPad? I have an IPhone and am considering getting one. Does the braille keyboard also have a braille display, or is that separate? Where can you get one? > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 15:00:13 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:00:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: merry christmas, happy quonza, and honuca Sent from my iPad On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:52 PM, Justin Young wrote: > Merry Christmas to you too Ashley & all who celebrate! > > On 12/21/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I’m preparing to visit my brother, his wife, and my new nephew for >> Christmas. It will be a different Christmas away from home, but we still >> have the presents and homemade feast. >> I just hope the weather and traffic isn’t bad as we drive to MA. >> >> To all who celebrate, Merry Christmas. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 17:02:54 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 11:02:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Christmas joy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013F4B96-C528-4DFA-B33F-3A9AD0B9BC07@gmail.com> I hope all of you have a merry and blessed Christmas! Sophie Trist Sent from my iPhone On Dec 22, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > merry christmas, happy quonza, and honuca > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:52 PM, Justin Young wrote: > >> Merry Christmas to you too Ashley & all who celebrate! >> >> On 12/21/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I’m preparing to visit my brother, his wife, and my new nephew for >>> Christmas. It will be a different Christmas away from home, but we still >>> have the presents and homemade feast. >>> I just hope the weather and traffic isn’t bad as we drive to MA. >>> >>> To all who celebrate, Merry Christmas. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 18:15:39 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 13:15:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out Dictamus Free Message-ID: Check out this application on the App Store: Dictamus Free JOTOMI Category: Business Updated: Dec 13, 2012 868 Ratings iOS Applications Please note that you have not been added to any email lists. Copyright © 2012 Apple Inc. All rights reserved Sent from my iPad From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Dec 22 18:27:55 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:27:55 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kerri, this might not fully answer your questions, but from what information I gathered at the Jaws seminar, Windows 8 is only for touch screen devices, so if you don't like touch screens, you might want to stay away from it. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kerri Kosten [kerrik2006 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; Blind Talk Mailing List Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions Hi Everyone: I believe my aunt is going to get me a copy of Windows 8 on DVD for Christmas. I currently am running windows 7 with Jaws 14. Has anyone upgraded using a DVD copy of windows 8? After upgrading, were your files, music, and data restored or did you have to put everything back on from a backup? Should I back up everything before upgrading? I would normally back up everything anyway just to be safe, but the problem is right now I am on vacation and I do not have my portable hard drive with me in order to back up my music and documents. Right now, I have lots of sighted help available in case something goes wrong and when I return home I will not have much sighted help unless I hire a reader. So, I'd like to upgrade while I am still on vacation. If you have upgraded, was it accessible? Can you do the entire thing by yourself or did you have to have sighted assistance? Do you like windows 8? What are your thoughts? Is it worth upgrading to from windows 7? As I understand it, windows 8 comes with a Facebook tile/app thingy. Does it also come with a twitter tile/app as well? Are a lot of apps in the new Microsoft app store accessible? Thanks so much! Those are my questions for now! If I think of anything else I'll ask! Kerri _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 18:57:51 2012 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 13:57:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Everyone: Okay, first of all, windows 8 does in fact work on any computer as long as it has the system requirements. Windows 8 is not just for touch screen devices. Mike and others, with all due respect, I am getting a free copy for christmas. Might as well take it and use it if I am getting it for free. Also, right now Microsoft is currently having a sale where you can upgrade to windows 8 for $40. Normally, windows 8 is $140. So, it is really cheap right now. So, even if I weren't getting it for christmas, I would still want to upgrade while the sale price is cheap. All I really want to know is when you upgrade are your files, and data automatically restored or do you have to reinstall everything from a backup? There are a couple of podcasts out there which demonstrate windows 8 with Jaws, NVDA, and System access. The one I listened to is the one from accessibleworld www.accessibleworld.org on their Tech Talk. This guy did a whole demonstration of using windows 8 with the three screenreaders and talked about the differences and such. It was very informative. Also serotalk www.serotalk.com did a special on Windows 8. I have not listened to it yet, but am planning on it very soon. Thanks so much! Kerri On 12/22/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Kerri, this might not fully answer your questions, but from what information > I gathered at the Jaws seminar, Windows 8 is only for touch screen devices, > so if you don't like touch screens, you might want to stay away from it. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kerri Kosten > [kerrik2006 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; Blind Talk Mailing > List > Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions > > Hi Everyone: > > I believe my aunt is going to get me a copy of Windows 8 on DVD for > Christmas. > I currently am running windows 7 with Jaws 14. > Has anyone upgraded using a DVD copy of windows 8? After upgrading, > were your files, music, and data restored or did you have to put > everything back on from a backup? > Should I back up everything before upgrading? > I would normally back up everything anyway just to be safe, but the > problem is right now I am on vacation and I do not have my portable > hard drive with me in order to back up my music and documents. Right > now, I have lots of sighted help available in case something goes > wrong and when I return home I will not have much sighted help unless > I hire a reader. So, I'd like to upgrade while I am still on vacation. > If you have upgraded, was it accessible? Can you do the entire thing > by yourself or did you have to have sighted assistance? > Do you like windows 8? What are your thoughts? Is it worth upgrading > to from windows 7? > As I understand it, windows 8 comes with a Facebook tile/app thingy. > Does it also come with a twitter tile/app as well? > Are a lot of apps in the new Microsoft app store accessible? > > Thanks so much! Those are my questions for now! If I think of anything > else I'll ask! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 19:15:13 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 11:15:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists In-Reply-To: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC> References: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1D7F01B9CC4D4161855A8BDBD91F8C55@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Menvi is the first list that comes to mind: http://www.menvi.org/ It is a network of music students and transcribers. Musictlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org With more people who are not classically trained. Braille Music Chat: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/braille-music-chat/?v=1&t=directory&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=dir&slk=45 This is more international, lots of people from the UK and I believe just about everyone on there is classically trained or is an avid reader of Braille Music. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Hi all, My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have comtemplated playing music as well. Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic load like? I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and network, particularly for my friend. thanks, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 19:19:17 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 14:19:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B2E737F-5475-4DA6-8B14-EBC2E7F6B94D@gmail.com> Hi Kerri, Check out this FAQ about upgrading to windows 8. It looks like if you are running Windows 7 then you can automatically migrate your files and programs. It is always a good idea to backup your data before doing an upgrade like this but I understand your concerns. Anyway, here's the link: http://www.zdnet.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-windows-8-upgrades-faq-part-2-7000008775/ Hope this helps. -Greg On Dec 22, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Everyone: > > I believe my aunt is going to get me a copy of Windows 8 on DVD for Christmas. > I currently am running windows 7 with Jaws 14. > Has anyone upgraded using a DVD copy of windows 8? After upgrading, > were your files, music, and data restored or did you have to put > everything back on from a backup? > Should I back up everything before upgrading? > I would normally back up everything anyway just to be safe, but the > problem is right now I am on vacation and I do not have my portable > hard drive with me in order to back up my music and documents. Right > now, I have lots of sighted help available in case something goes > wrong and when I return home I will not have much sighted help unless > I hire a reader. So, I'd like to upgrade while I am still on vacation. > If you have upgraded, was it accessible? Can you do the entire thing > by yourself or did you have to have sighted assistance? > Do you like windows 8? What are your thoughts? Is it worth upgrading > to from windows 7? > As I understand it, windows 8 comes with a Facebook tile/app thingy. > Does it also come with a twitter tile/app as well? > Are a lot of apps in the new Microsoft app store accessible? > > Thanks so much! Those are my questions for now! If I think of anything > else I'll ask! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 14:07:48 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 09:07:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! Message-ID: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> Good morning everyone, I'd like to join with everybody who has posted their Christmas wishes so far in writing to wish everyone on these lists who celebrates the holiday a very merry Christmas!!! I hope all of you, like me, will be able to enjoy Christmas with your family and loved ones. If you are travelling for Christmas, stay safe. And above all, have fun!!! As for myself and my family, we're leaving in a couple of minutes for BWI Airport to catch a plane out to Kansas City to spend Christmas with family there! Very much looking forward to seeing them!!! Again, a very Merry Christmas to you all!!! If you're celebrating another holiday, I wish you the best! Chris Nusbaum From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 23 17:24:56 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:24:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] CT Association of Blind Students Email Listserv Message-ID: > >The Connecticut Association of Blind Students is >proud to announce its new email listserv! > > From this point forward, I will send one more > reminder email, and we will otherwise only use > the listserv for our mass communications. > >An email listserv, for those of you who don't >know, is like putting a spoon, facing upward, >under a faucet. There's one stream of water >going in and many deflected streams coming >out. You send one message to the listserv, and >it goes to every member of the listserv. > >To join the Connecticut Association of Blind >Students' email listserv, follow this link, and >then follow the quick and easy instructions. It >takes literally thirty seconds. > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ctabs_nfbnet.org > >If you have any questions, I encourage you to contact me directly. > >Yours in Federationism, > >Justin Salisbury > >Justin M. Salisbury >B.A. in Mathematics >Class of 2012 >East Carolina University >president at alumni.ecu.edu > >“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, >committed citizens can change the world; indeed, >it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From freethaught at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 18:38:38 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 13:38:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again Message-ID: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Hello all, I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. What is your preference in canes, and why. I would be especially interested in international models. Thanks, Antonio From juanitatighan at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 18:44:54 2012 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 13:44:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> I use AmbuTech but I have a rolling tip, so it's not a bit heavy. Jane On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:38 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. > > I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. > > I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. > > I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. > > I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. > > I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. > > I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. > > What is your preference in canes, and why. > > I would be especially interested in international models. > > Thanks, > Antonio > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 18:57:06 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 13:57:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6CBEDA1A-425C-4816-9081-E4F841855C81@gmail.com> Hi Antonio. This is LaVonnya. I got my cane from independent living aids, or maxi aids. I don't remember witch. but i do no that booth have the folding canes. and they r very sterdy. E special needs .com may have them too. But I don't no that for sure. e me off list if u want. lgardner1416 at gmail.com NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:38 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. > > I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. > > I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. > > I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. > > I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. > > I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. > > I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. > > What is your preference in canes, and why. > > I would be especially interested in international models. > > Thanks, > Antonio > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From coasterfreak88 at me.com Sun Dec 23 18:47:33 2012 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:47:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> Speaking of canes, does anyone know what happened to the RainShine company? I am a huge fan of there canes and I was looking to order another one, but every time we call the numbers we can find, nothing happens. DId they go out of business? From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 19:03:07 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:03:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jane I use a marsh mello tip. my tip is not heavy either. I like it better than the plain tip. I wish I could find a rolling tip, but i d k where to look. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Jane wrote: > I use AmbuTech but I have a rolling tip, so it's not a bit heavy. > > Jane > > > > > On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:38 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. >> >> I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. >> >> I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. >> >> I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. >> >> I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. >> >> I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. >> >> I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. >> >> What is your preference in canes, and why. >> >> I would be especially interested in international models. >> >> Thanks, >> Antonio >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 19:04:15 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:04:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> Message-ID: <3101B682-ECBF-4C9A-AAF8-DCACF81B49A2@gmail.com> Hello John, I was going through another listserv, and saw a message from someone saying that the rain shine canes are no longer being made. Sorry I don't have any other details. Hope someone else does. Antonio On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:47 PM, John Moore wrote: > Speaking of canes, does anyone know what happened to the RainShine company? I am a huge fan of there canes and I was looking to order another one, but every time we call the numbers we can find, nothing happens. DId they go out of business? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Sun Dec 23 20:12:57 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:12:57 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121223120906.01bdea40@comcast.net> Good morning,, Antonio, I didn't now you were that tall but I too use a HUGE, stick as I like to call 'em, a 61-incher. my stick is streight and, while i assumed such an arrangement would not work for me, the streight cane is in fact, not hard to just hoold. AM 12/23/2012, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. > >I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane >has proven too Brittle for me. > >I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It >is an Iowa cane. > >I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will >be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. > >I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always >fix it when it breaks. > >I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. > >I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. > >What is your preference in canes, and why. > >I would be especially interested in international models. > >Thanks, >Antonio >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:43:10 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:43:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, I use the 50 50 NFB cane and the only part that breaks is the connecting elastic. I walk mega fast and do a lot of cross country running and whatnot and it has never broken. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 10:38 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again Hello all, I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. What is your preference in canes, and why. I would be especially interested in international models. Thanks, Antonio _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:47:37 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 13:47:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Accessible-iOS this is for potential new apple product owners References: Message-ID: <97F9023A-C2AE-49BE-B1B7-F58847705BEC@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver Begin forwarded message: > From: Scott Davert > Date: December 23, 2012, 12:53:44 PM MST > To: accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Accessible-iOS this is for potential new apple product owners > Reply-To: accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com > > For the Mac, don't forget about > www.mac4theblind.com > and > www.chicksdigmacs.net > > Scott > > On 12/23/12, Jessica Brown wrote: >> Hi. Because it is getting close to Christmas time, I have put >> together a list of links to websites where people can go to learn >> about the mac and iOS devices if they happen to get one under >> their tree. some of these sites are just about apple products and >> some of them have stuff about apple products as well as >> information on other things relating to being blind including >> technologies from other companies as well as other things that >> are not technology related at all, but are still related to >> blindness in one way or another. However, each of the sites I am >> going to list all have a section on apple products. There are >> podcasts, tips, guides, reviews of apps and much more. I hope >> these links help you no matter if you are just getting started >> with apple products or you are an old pro with them and just want >> to improve on your skills. I will post this again after Christmas >> to remind people about it. I used to be on a bunch of apple >> forums and mailing lists, but I was getting too much in my inbox, >> so I unsubscribed from most of them and I currently only deal >> with the accessible iOS list and applevis.com. If you are on a >> forum or mailing list other then those two, can you please help >> me out by forwarding this email so that it can reach as many >> people as it possibly can? Once you send it somewhere, please >> email me off list and tell me where you sent it. My email address >> is jessicabrown531 at gmail.com. Thank you. Now here are the links. >> Enjoy! www.applevis.com/. www.apple.com/accessibility/. >> www.iblindtech.com/. www.iaccessibility.net/. >> www.appletothecore.info/. www.maccessibility.net/. >> www.atmac.org/. www.jeffsinfoworld.org/. www.htb2.com/. >> www.icanworkthisthing.com/. www.blindcooltech.com/. >> www.allwithmyiphone.com/. >> >> Ways to contact me >> >> email, iMessage and facetime- jessicabrown531 at gmail.com >> >> zellow- jessicawater >> >> skype- jessica.brown5311 >> >> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex >> >> -- >> To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: >> beto.arreola22 at gmail.com >> >> To subscribe to the group send email to: >> accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com >> >> To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en > > -- > To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com > > To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com > > To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en > > From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 23:13:09 2012 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:13:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Antonio. I've heard of some really cool international canes, but these are hard or impossible to find in the US. The US doesn't have a wide variety of cane options to be honest. You're pretty much stuck with the Iowa cane, Ambutech in Canada, the NFB models or Revolution in California as far as I can tell. There are some interesting canes from Europe and Asia. The telescoping Aurora cane, made of Glass and manufactured in South Korea, looks to be extremely strong and lightweight. I wish I could see this model for myself. Poke around here and do some additional web research if you are inclined: http://www.gobizkorea.com/blog/ProductView.do?blogId=kunyoong&id=967748 The Kellerer cane has been highly recommended by a couple of blind professionals and instructors and is made in The Netherlands. It's a strong, durable telescoping model with a ceramic tip that weighs only about 6.5 ounces. They deliver to the US but I haven't yet had enough courage to go through the process and the model is admittedly incredibly expensive. This company, Worldwide Vision, also has a variety of other interesting canes and general cool gadgets. Here is their site in English: https://www.worldwidevision.nl/en/ ... and the webpage for their Kellere cane: https://www.worldwidevision.nl/en/product/mobility/long-canes Duxbury has a list of general international sellers and distributors. http://www.duxburysystems.com/search.asp?Search=cane By all means, you are more than welcome to try and bring one of these to America and let me know how it works out for you. I've been thinking about ordering one of the Kellerer canes but haven't been able to justify the price yet. Otherwise, If you don't have the money or interest in tracking one of these down from abroad, keep in mind that the NFB's telescoping canes were remodeled recently. They are sturdier now than they were just a few years ago and are certainly worth a second look. I am not a fan of Ambutech's models. While I like their ceramic tip, I think their canes are heavy and their paint begins to peal and look ugly after minimal use. Brice On 12/23/12, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new > cane. > > I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has > proven too Brittle for me. > > I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an > Iowa cane. > > I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be > quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. > > I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it > when it breaks. > > I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. > > I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still > tall. > > What is your preference in canes, and why. > > I would be especially interested in international models. > > Thanks, > Antonio > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > -- Brice Smith North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com From coasterfreak88 at me.com Sun Dec 23 23:18:16 2012 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 17:18:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com Mon Dec 24 02:44:22 2012 From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:44:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? In-Reply-To: References: <3D4EBBECE57D42AF8746C4A8CD854D28@Lisa> <565B67F9-A10D-4639-87EB-9EB27DCA5B39@aol.com> <235E067B-BB05-485C-86FF-70C35ED40F31@aol.com> Message-ID: <445C72B3-AEB1-470A-89DE-117A29C8F48E@aol.com> Hi Joshua, I'm sorry it took me some time to respond. I have found that jaws 13 has been the best with blackboard even though we are now up to version 14. I think it may be a good start to update. Bridget Sent from my iPad On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:36 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I found that out when I researched the college. > I like to research different colleges to see how their disability services are. > I'm using Jaws 10.0. > I posted something about my Jaws problems on another thread. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? > > Hi Joshua, > What version of jaws are you using? > Did you try an invert F7 to bring up the links list. I have had the same problem and that is how I get around it. > Dominican College is located in Orangeburg New York. > > Bridget > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 18, 2012, at 8:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Hi Bridget! >> Welcome to the list! >> As you probably know, (those of you who have posted here for years,) I've had issues with Blackboard! >> After I log in, it says, "Page has no links!" >> I refresh the page, and I get the same result! >> I don't know what version my college uses, but it's inaccessible whatever it is! >> Good grief! >> BTW, Where is Dominican College located? >> I've never heard of it. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bridget Walker [bridgetawalker13 at aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >> >> Hi everyone, >> I am a student at Dominican College and I have a love hate relationship with blackboard when using jaws. I am finding Jaws 14 has been the best in tackling all of the crazy web design problems. The biggest problem I face when working with jaws is that it tends to move to the top of the page. an additional problem I face is when I need to use the timer modification and need to log in. Jaws will let me put in my information but when I try to read a test and answer questions jaws moves to another place on the screen. I could go on with all of the problems I face with blackboard but will say that jaws 14 is an improvement with exception to form fields. >> As a general is anyone having problems with jaws 14 and invert commands? >> Bridget >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:19 PM, "melissa Green" wrote: >> >>> I use blackboard a lot. >>> Blackboard has come a long way. But like many things it is never going to >>> be perfect. >>> If the schools would possibly use the same platforms. I think that >>> blackboard wouldn't be much of a problem. >>> I never thought that I would say that Northern Colorado is more accessible >>> with online classes than the comunity colege that uses the simelar system as >>> blackboard. >>> >>> Many blessings, >>> melissa and Pj >>> At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and >>> you know what you want. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Everett Gavel" >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:34 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Blackboard? >>> >>> >>> Hello Again, All, >>> >>> Can any of you tell me good or bad points on using >>> Blackboard? I remember that the 2010 (?) national >>> NFB convention had a presentation on the >>> accessibility of Blackboard. However, I've heard a >>> few times that the upgrade(s) since then are less >>> accessible, and that even that supposedly >>> accessible version wasn't totally accessible. Can >>> anyone clarify, or point me to some discussions or >>> articles explaining such details, please? I'm >>> thinking of switching from ashford to Colorado >>> State U Online, and right now Ashford U is very >>> accessible. But Ashford uses the Constellation >>> classroom system, and CSU uses Blackboard. >>> >>> Thanks for any help with this. >>> >>> >>> Strive On! >>> Everett >>> everett at everettgavel.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com From maurice.mines at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 02:44:47 2012 From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:44:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> References: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <332A909C-712E-4FB5-8976-469501180235@gmail.com> Hello everybody, even though I am technically no longer a student. I certainly would like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and an outstanding new year May 2013 be much better than 2012 was for you. Sincerely Maurice, and a very rainy Vancouver Washington. Period On Dec 23, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > I'd like to join with everybody who has posted their Christmas wishes so far in writing to wish everyone on these lists who celebrates the holiday a very merry Christmas!!! I hope all of you, like me, will be able to enjoy Christmas with your family and loved ones. If you are travelling for Christmas, stay safe. And above all, have fun!!! > > As for myself and my family, we're leaving in a couple of minutes for BWI Airport to catch a plane out to Kansas City to spend Christmas with family there! Very much looking forward to seeing them!!! > > Again, a very Merry Christmas to you all!!! If you're celebrating another holiday, I wish you the best! > > Chris Nusbaum > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Mon Dec 24 03:02:44 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 03:02:44 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <332A909C-712E-4FB5-8976-469501180235@gmail.com> References: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com>, <332A909C-712E-4FB5-8976-469501180235@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Maurice! Welcome to the list! Merry Christmas! BTW, your last name rings a bell, which is why I'm posting on your comment. Are you related to any of the Mineses, from DeWitt, Arkansas? I'll write you off list. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Maurice Mines [maurice.mines at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 8:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! Hello everybody, even though I am technically no longer a student. I certainly would like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and an outstanding new year May 2013 be much better than 2012 was for you. Sincerely Maurice, and a very rainy Vancouver Washington. Period On Dec 23, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > I'd like to join with everybody who has posted their Christmas wishes so far in writing to wish everyone on these lists who celebrates the holiday a very merry Christmas!!! I hope all of you, like me, will be able to enjoy Christmas with your family and loved ones. If you are travelling for Christmas, stay safe. And above all, have fun!!! > > As for myself and my family, we're leaving in a couple of minutes for BWI Airport to catch a plane out to Kansas City to spend Christmas with family there! Very much looking forward to seeing them!!! > > Again, a very Merry Christmas to you all!!! If you're celebrating another holiday, I wish you the best! > > Chris Nusbaum > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From lissa1531 at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 03:20:41 2012 From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 20:20:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! References: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> <332A909C-712E-4FB5-8976-469501180235@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1921CFC936C94FFDADAB185F94E8C95E@HP30910210001> Merry christmas to everyone. May 2013 be blessed and may we all be successful. Oh and congratulations to all of those like me who are done in may of 2013. Blessings, Melissa and Pj Try to expect nothing, but be open for anything. Don't look for happiness, but don't settle for anything less. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Mines" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! Hello everybody, even though I am technically no longer a student. I certainly would like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and an outstanding new year May 2013 be much better than 2012 was for you. Sincerely Maurice, and a very rainy Vancouver Washington. Period On Dec 23, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > I'd like to join with everybody who has posted their Christmas wishes so > far in writing to wish everyone on these lists who celebrates the holiday > a very merry Christmas!!! I hope all of you, like me, will be able to > enjoy Christmas with your family and loved ones. If you are travelling > for Christmas, stay safe. And above all, have fun!!! > > As for myself and my family, we're leaving in a couple of minutes for BWI > Airport to catch a plane out to Kansas City to spend Christmas with family > there! Very much looking forward to seeing them!!! > > Again, a very Merry Christmas to you all!!! If you're celebrating another > holiday, I wish you the best! > > Chris Nusbaum > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 19:27:54 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to the NFB metal tips? Thanks, Arielle On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 19:47:03 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 14:47:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: Arielle, I've been a fan of Ambutech canes since I was in grade school. The graphite canes really aren't that heavy. If you put a big rolling ball tip on the end, that will add weight. As for replacing tips, it's easier than ever now. All new Ambutech canes come with a locking device that works when you pull out the tip to replace it. Personally, I would take an Ambutech folding over a straight/rigid cane any day. Patrick On 12/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but >> I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is >> there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From seacknit at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 20:06:38 2012 From: seacknit at gmail.com (Sally Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:06:38 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: <443F5EBE-BF94-44D2-88E9-37723C314CB5@gmail.com> I like my Revolution cane. I think it is so much better compared to the NFB cane it takes a beating and keeps tickingl Sent from my iPhone On Dec 24, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Arielle, > I've been a fan of Ambutech canes since I was in grade school. The > graphite canes really aren't that heavy. If you put a big rolling ball > tip on the end, that will add weight. As for replacing tips, it's > easier than ever now. All new Ambutech canes come with a locking > device that works when you pull out the tip to replace it. Personally, > I would take an Ambutech folding over a straight/rigid cane any day. > Patrick > > On 12/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but >>> I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is >>> there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/seacknit%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Mon Dec 24 20:09:34 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:09:34 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <443F5EBE-BF94-44D2-88E9-37723C314CB5@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> , <443F5EBE-BF94-44D2-88E9-37723C314CB5@gmail.com> Message-ID: I had a Revolution cane, but they didn't have a new one in my height. Now, I've got this amazing cane from Ambutech. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sally Thomas [seacknit at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 2:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again I like my Revolution cane. I think it is so much better compared to the NFB cane it takes a beating and keeps tickingl Sent from my iPhone On Dec 24, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Arielle, > I've been a fan of Ambutech canes since I was in grade school. The > graphite canes really aren't that heavy. If you put a big rolling ball > tip on the end, that will add weight. As for replacing tips, it's > easier than ever now. All new Ambutech canes come with a locking > device that works when you pull out the tip to replace it. Personally, > I would take an Ambutech folding over a straight/rigid cane any day. > Patrick > > On 12/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but >>> I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is >>> there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/seacknit%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From coasterfreak88 at me.com Mon Dec 24 22:54:57 2012 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 16:54:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: Arielle, I agree about the telescoping canes, but I haven't had one of the new ones break on me yet. I have had the screw that holds the tip on come off with the tip on both the straight and telescopic canes. I'm checking out one of these foreign canes that was talked about in another post. Also, does anyone know how to get an Iowa cane? I'm interested in getting one as I"ve heard a lot about them. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 23:03:06 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 16:03:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: Hello, all, personally, I am a fan of my NFB straight cane, all its drawbacks notwithstanding. I keep an NFB folding cane as a backup… It's slightly heavier than the NFB straight cane, but I really like it when I'm in a pinch. Just my thoughts, and happy holidays, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Dec 24, 2012, at 3:54 PM, John Moore wrote: > Arielle, I agree about the telescoping canes, but I haven't had one of the new ones break on me yet. I have had the screw that holds the tip on come off with the tip on both the straight and telescopic canes. I'm checking out one of these foreign canes that was talked about in another post. Also, does anyone know how to get an Iowa cane? I'm interested in getting one as I"ve heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 00:39:55 2012 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 19:39:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question Message-ID: Hi All! Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday season! I'm in the process of updating my facebook profile information and noticed that In my Work and Education section, there are multiple entries of the same information. Wanted to clean that up, but don't know how to do so. Could any advise a good way to do this with JAWS? Thanks so much! Justin From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 23:46:32 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 19:46:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi you can just find what you want to remove and click on the link to remove it that is if you are doing it from the moble site. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question Hi All! Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday season! I'm in the process of updating my facebook profile information and noticed that In my Work and Education section, there are multiple entries of the same information. Wanted to clean that up, but don't know how to do so. Could any advise a good way to do this with JAWS? Thanks so much! Justin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 00:56:43 2012 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 19:56:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh that's cool thanks. Do you know how to do it using the normal computer site? Justin On 12/24/12, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: > Hi you can just find what you want to remove and click on the link to > remove > it that is if you are doing it from the moble site. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question > > Hi All! > > Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday season! I'm in the process of > updating my facebook profile information and noticed that In my Work > and Education section, there are multiple entries of the same > information. Wanted to clean that up, but don't know how to do so. > Could any advise a good way to do this with JAWS? > > Thanks so much! > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 00:03:43 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:03:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7231BC6DE0874651B02778998A934620@userPC> I think you have to go in under info like you do on the regular site and you will see things like employment so you can edit your info from there to. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook Question Oh that's cool thanks. Do you know how to do it using the normal computer site? Justin On 12/24/12, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: > Hi you can just find what you want to remove and click on the link to > remove > it that is if you are doing it from the moble site. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question > > Hi All! > > Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday season! I'm in the process of > updating my facebook profile information and noticed that In my Work > and Education section, there are multiple entries of the same > information. Wanted to clean that up, but don't know how to do so. > Could any advise a good way to do this with JAWS? > > Thanks so much! > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Dec 25 01:05:27 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 19:05:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: <72B67C54-8DA0-4767-8075-15CA3643C107@samobile.net> Some metal apoxy can act as a glue when your screw comes out of your NFB cane. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 24, 2012, at 4:54 PM, John Moore wrote: > Arielle, I agree about the telescoping canes, but I haven't had one of the new ones break on me yet. I have had the screw that holds the tip on come off with the tip on both the straight and telescopic canes. I'm checking out one of these foreign canes that was talked about in another post. Also, does anyone know how to get an Iowa cane? I'm interested in getting one as I"ve heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 01:20:18 2012 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:20:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question In-Reply-To: <7231BC6DE0874651B02778998A934620@userPC> References: <7231BC6DE0874651B02778998A934620@userPC> Message-ID: Thanks for your help! Figured it out! Justin On 12/24/12, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: > I think you have to go in under info like you do on the regular site and > you will see things like employment so you can edit your info from there > to. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook Question > > Oh that's cool thanks. Do you know how to do it using the normal computer > site? > > Justin > > On 12/24/12, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: >> Hi you can just find what you want to remove and click on the link to >> remove >> it that is if you are doing it from the moble site. >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young >> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question >> >> Hi All! >> >> Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday season! I'm in the process of >> updating my facebook profile information and noticed that In my Work >> and Education section, there are multiple entries of the same >> information. Wanted to clean that up, but don't know how to do so. >> Could any advise a good way to do this with JAWS? >> >> Thanks so much! >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 00:34:43 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:34:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question In-Reply-To: References: <7231BC6DE0874651B02778998A934620@userPC> Message-ID: Your welcome! Glad I was able to help! Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook Question Thanks for your help! Figured it out! Justin On 12/24/12, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: > I think you have to go in under info like you do on the regular site and > you will see things like employment so you can edit your info from there > to. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook Question > > Oh that's cool thanks. Do you know how to do it using the normal computer > site? > > Justin > > On 12/24/12, Rania Ismail LMT wrote: >> Hi you can just find what you want to remove and click on the link to >> remove >> it that is if you are doing it from the moble site. >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young >> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 8:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Question >> >> Hi All! >> >> Hope you are having a wonderful Holiday season! I'm in the process of >> updating my facebook profile information and noticed that In my Work >> and Education section, there are multiple entries of the same >> information. Wanted to clean that up, but don't know how to do so. >> Could any advise a good way to do this with JAWS? >> >> Thanks so much! >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Dec 25 06:06:40 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 22:06:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121224220611.01dcf878@comcast.net> Yes, RainShine did in fact go out of business. 10:47 AM 12/23/2012, you wrote: >Speaking of canes, does anyone know what happened to the RainShine >company? I am a huge fan of there canes and I was looking to order >another one, but every time we call the numbers we can find, nothing >happens. DId they go out of business? > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Dec 25 10:36:32 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 04:36:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3FBD6148-2160-4FD5-85C5-8D18E2EAF539@samobile.net> LS&S Sells all kinds of rolling and non-rolling cane tips that are pretty reasonable price. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:03 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Hi Jane > I use a marsh mello tip. my tip is not heavy either. I like it better than the plain tip. I wish I could find a rolling tip, but i d k where to look. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Jane wrote: > >> I use AmbuTech but I have a rolling tip, so it's not a bit heavy. >> >> Jane >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 23, 2012, at 1:38 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. >>> >>> I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. >>> >>> I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. >>> >>> I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. >>> >>> I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. >>> >>> I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. >>> >>> I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. >>> >>> What is your preference in canes, and why. >>> >>> I would be especially interested in international models. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Antonio >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/juanitatighan%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Dec 25 10:39:03 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 04:39:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Somewhat off-topic when it comes to Keynes, but I am very interested to hear what you all think of the red stripe at the bottom of some canes. Do you think this stripe is necessary? Have you heard any of the interesting reasons as to why the red stripe exists on the bottom of some canes? Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On Dec 23, 2012, at 12:38 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm sure we discussed this topic before, but I am now in need of a new cane. > > I need a folding or collapsible cane, but the collapsible Nfb Kane has proven too Brittle for me. > > I use a straight, somewhat heavier, but very heavy duty came now. It is an Iowa cane. > > I am leaning towards purchasing an Ambutech graphite cane. This will be quite a heavy cane for me since it will be at 64 inch tall one. > > I already have the repair kit for this type of King, so I can always fix it when it breaks. > > I am not looking forward to how heavy this cane Will be. > > I would be interested in finding something a little lighter, but still tall. > > What is your preference in canes, and why. > > I would be especially interested in international models. > > Thanks, > Antonio > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 17:34:06 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:34:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> Message-ID: <40A1ACAF-74F9-4779-8225-5A9EFA866A45@gmail.com> Arielle and all, You can order in Iowa cane from the Iowa Department for the blind. The number is (515) 281-1333. As for the Ambutech canes, you can order them with the hook tip, or a slip on tip if I'm not mistaken. The hook tip sits at the bottom of it came like a tiny little section. It can be lifted out and unhooked from the elastic. It is very simple to replace. The Ambutech graphite canes are much lighter than all of the aluminum canes out there. It's probably still a little heavy for me, but it is looking like a good alternative option to one of the foreign models out there. Thanks for all of your suggestions, Antonio On Dec 24, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 21:45:01 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 13:45:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coasterfreak88 at me.com Tue Dec 25 22:17:17 2012 From: coasterfreak88 at me.com (John Moore) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 16:17:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad help please. Message-ID: <323BC5D2-B499-46DF-BD4C-582F9FB06437@me.com> I am trying to type an email address into the IPad and can't find the at sign. I looked in the numbers and symbols lists and it appeared not to be there. Is there something you have to do to get that to show up? THanks. From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:17:48 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:17:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0336A4F1-034B-45DF-B366-9162A6F6EBF8@gmail.com> hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:20:22 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:20:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:21:09 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:21:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <0336A4F1-034B-45DF-B366-9162A6F6EBF8@gmail.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <0336A4F1-034B-45DF-B366-9162A6F6EBF8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90987E67-5456-46C3-B280-570B7D8280A7@gmail.com> That wasn't too specific. Slighting one finger up will only work when it tells you the page number. For example, page 1 of three. Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:27:51 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:27:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad help please. In-Reply-To: <323BC5D2-B499-46DF-BD4C-582F9FB06437@me.com> References: <323BC5D2-B499-46DF-BD4C-582F9FB06437@me.com> Message-ID: <604D5B7A-A3C5-4288-AFFF-2E519C71B305@gmail.com> Hy John, I am assuming you are in the mail app on your iPad. I'm not sure if the layout will be the same as on the iPhone. I suspect the layout is the same, and if so, the@ (at) symbol will be to the right of the space bar. I hope this helps, Antonio On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, John Moore wrote: > I am trying to type an email address into the IPad and can't find the at sign. I looked in the numbers and symbols lists and it appeared not to be there. Is there something you have to do to get that to show up? THanks. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:28:49 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:28:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <90987E67-5456-46C3-B280-570B7D8280A7@gmail.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <0336A4F1-034B-45DF-B366-9162A6F6EBF8@gmail.com> <90987E67-5456-46C3-B280-570B7D8280A7@gmail.com> Message-ID: well. grandly she was at that position and did not know what the command was to switch pages. at least that is the scenario her e-mail seemed to indicate, given that she already knew there were two pages in the home screen, for example, and that is only possible if you navigate to this section where you switch pages. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:21 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > That wasn't too specific. Slighting one finger up will only work when it tells you the page number. For example, page 1 of three. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > >> hi sarah, >> >> slide one finger upwards. >> >> mauricio >> >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>> the NFB metal tips? >>> Thanks, >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:31:21 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <0336A4F1-034B-45DF-B366-9162A6F6EBF8@gmail.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <0336A4F1-034B-45DF-B366-9162A6F6EBF8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <808312AD-1EA9-4854-BA7B-3DBB8F0E8D05@gmail.com> Hello, Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the bar just above the dock area is highlighted. Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like turning the pages on the book. Antonio On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:50:15 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:50:15 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da2da8.e1c8440a.2afd.79f5@mx.google.com> And for some reason, when I go to turn it off, it says slide to turn off and when I slide my finger it just says cancel button. I can double-tap it but when I try using the slide meyod it don't work. How come? I slid my finger from left to right on the bottom and then tried from right to left. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mauricio Almeida wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:50:13 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:50:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad help please. Message-ID: <50da2da5.e1c8440a.2afd.79f3@mx.google.com> I am having that same problem on my iPhone. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Moore References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6D1D69C7-2DCD-465F-A7F5-E06C48D1355E@gmail.com> what is face time. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 23:06:08 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:06:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad help please. In-Reply-To: <604D5B7A-A3C5-4288-AFFF-2E519C71B305@gmail.com> References: <323BC5D2-B499-46DF-BD4C-582F9FB06437@me.com> <604D5B7A-A3C5-4288-AFFF-2E519C71B305@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John This is Lavonnya. f u would like, u may email me off list, and I can help with your i pad. I have 1. ad use it for most of my dayley activities. My email is, lgardner1416 at gmail.com NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:27 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > Hy John, > > I am assuming you are in the mail app on your iPad. I'm not sure if the layout will be the same as on the iPhone. > > I suspect the layout is the same, and if so, the@ (at) symbol will be to the right of the space bar. > > I hope this helps, > > Antonio > > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, John Moore wrote: > >> I am trying to type an email address into the IPad and can't find the at sign. I looked in the numbers and symbols lists and it appeared not to be there. Is there something you have to do to get that to show up? THanks. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 22:55:45 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:55:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <6D1D69C7-2DCD-465F-A7F5-E06C48D1355E@gmail.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> <6D1D69C7-2DCD-465F-A7F5-E06C48D1355E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <03CAD590-ECBA-4F2D-ACEA-37CB9702B15A@gmail.com> it is similar to Skype, but restricted to people with apple ids or iPhones. you may star t a call or video call using iPhones or apple ids. this is a short version of it. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 6:02 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > what is face time. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > >> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>> the NFB metal tips? >>> Thanks, >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 23:12:39 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:12:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <03CAD590-ECBA-4F2D-ACEA-37CB9702B15A@gmail.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> <6D1D69C7-2DCD-465F-A7F5-E06C48D1355E@gmail.com> <03CAD590-ECBA-4F2D-ACEA-37CB9702B15A@gmail.com> Message-ID: i wonder if i could get it. i am using an i pad. but it is an i pad 1. i wonder if a camra can be hooked up to it, i use sign language, and sometimes my ipad as a communication device. the app i use is called speek it. do u no what that is. i wonder how i cold use face time. that would so rule if i could. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > it is similar to Skype, but restricted to people with apple ids or iPhones. you may star t a call or video call using iPhones or apple ids. > this is a short version of it. > > mauricio > On Dec 25, 2012, at 6:02 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> what is face time. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >> >>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Sarah and Wizard >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>>> the NFB metal tips? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 23:28:13 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:28:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. Antonio On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 23:32:41 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:32:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: really? i've used it just fine on the mac. have you ever tried? i never used it on the iPhone myself. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 6:28 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. > > FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. > > Antonio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > >> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>> the NFB metal tips? >>> Thanks, >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 23:47:52 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:47:52 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da3b28.c886440a.3584.4443@mx.google.com> I slid my finger across from right to left and nothing happened. I can only double-tap it to turn it off. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 23:47:49 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:47:49 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da3b26.c886440a.3584.4442@mx.google.com> I tried sending you a text, what's your phone number? I tried and I accidentally texted the wrong person. I want to try Facetime! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 00:00:26 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 16:00:26 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 00:08:12 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:08:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> References: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > what is face time. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 00:58:45 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:58:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: References: <50da1e5d.8557420a.159e.32d1@mx.google.com> <1F50753B-E41F-4ADE-8D3E-7DAAD92785AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8F839186-44A5-4C55-B7BD-1D3277720B7C@gmail.com> Mauricio, I meant that voice over and FaceTime do not work together on the iPhone. They work together just fine on the Mac. Glad we clarified that. Antonio On Dec 25, 2012, at 6:32 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > really? > i've used it just fine on the mac. > have you ever tried? > i never used it on the iPhone myself. > > mauricio > On Dec 25, 2012, at 6:28 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > >> You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. >> >> FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. >> >> Antonio >> >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >> >>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Sarah and Wizard >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>>> the NFB metal tips? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 01:06:59 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:06:59 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da4db3.c587440a.48db.30b7@mx.google.com> Yeah I'm having lots of trouble I can't even answer a dang phone call. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 01:07:06 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:07:06 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da4dbb.c587440a.48db.30bc@mx.google.com> It wouldn't let me accept your Facetime invite. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 01:21:34 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da5154.2aacec0a.5166.302c@mx.google.com> If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it will move to the second page. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 01:23:21 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:23:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> I've had no problem with facetime and VoiceOver, and I've been using my iPhone for over a year! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 01:27:11 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:27:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word Message-ID: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! Best wishes always, Sophie From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 01:36:38 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:36:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> hello there, word is by far not the best solution for us. I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! > Best wishes always, > Sophie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 02:03:24 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 21:03:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> References: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6DF2D527-9747-4B37-B026-C9D4BBFC3494@gmail.com> FaceTime will work with voiceover on the iPhone, but it sounds very crackly when used in conjunction with each other. Come to think of it, I have helped my brother with his iPhone over FaceTime. I just don't think this combination is the perfect solution to helping someone learn the phone. On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > I've had no problem with facetime and VoiceOver, and I've been using my iPhone for over a year! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:28:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. > > FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. > > Antonio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 02:43:47 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:43:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50da6464.064d420a.045c.4f72@mx.google.com> Oh ok I didn't try that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 02:48:38 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:48:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> Message-ID: My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? Sophie Trist Sent from my iPhone On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > hello there, > > word is by far not the best solution for us. > I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. > with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! > > mauricio > On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >> Best wishes always, >> Sophie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 02:51:24 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:51:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da6464.064d420a.045c.4f72@mx.google.com> References: <50da6464.064d420a.045c.4f72@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I would suggest double tapping the sliders rather than sliding them. You can slide them but sometimes it is hard to find the slider or the slide gets mistaken for a left click. Also I think the sliders go from left to right, not right to left. But if you just double tap whenever it says slide, you shouldn't have any trouble. Arielle On 12/25/12, Sarah wrote: > Oh ok I didn't try that. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it > will move to the second page. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Hello, > > Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the > bar just above the dock area is highlighted. > > Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. > > I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like > turning the pages on the book. > > Antonio > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida > wrote: > > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with > VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried > sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not > working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I > love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with > NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that > I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is > better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the > joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to > try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass > rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb > question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up > I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, > and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, > so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I > can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just > don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are > similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one > right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa > cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 02:56:20 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:56:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <40A1ACAF-74F9-4779-8225-5A9EFA866A45@gmail.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <87849683-25A0-4EDB-BE8C-02125537D567@me.com> <40A1ACAF-74F9-4779-8225-5A9EFA866A45@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jedi, I'm not sure what the red stripe is supposed to be for. I have heard it might be intended to make the cane more visible at night. Generally I'm not a fan of designs that are set up to make us stand out, which I think might be what you are getting at. However if a cane is dependable in every other way and meets my needs I wouldn't let the red stripe prevent me from using it. Arielle On 12/25/12, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Arielle and all, > > You can order in Iowa cane from the Iowa Department for the blind. > > The number is (515) 281-1333. > > As for the Ambutech canes, you can order them with the hook tip, or a slip > on tip if I'm not mistaken. The hook tip sits at the bottom of it came like > a tiny little section. It can be lifted out and unhooked from the elastic. > It is very simple to replace. > > The Ambutech graphite canes are much lighter than all of the aluminum canes > out there. It's probably still a little heavy for me, but it is looking like > a good alternative option to one of the foreign models out there. > > Thanks for all of your suggestions, > > Antonio > > > > On Dec 24, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, >>> but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is >>> there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 02:57:56 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:57:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da6464.064d420a.045c.4f72@mx.google.com> References: <50da6464.064d420a.045c.4f72@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-470931163350136176@unknownmsgid> Sarah and all, Yes, or you can do a one finger swipe up and it will go between pages. This goes for any adjustable menu; that is, everything that voiceover says adjustable on. Hope everyone had a great Christmas! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sarah wrote: > Oh ok I didn't try that. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it > will move to the second page. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Hello, > > Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the > bar just above the dock area is highlighted. > > Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. > > I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like > turning the pages on the book. > > Antonio > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida > wrote: > > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with > VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried > sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not > working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I > love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with > NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that > I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is > better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the > joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to > try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass > rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb > question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up > I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, > and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, > so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I > can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just > don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are > similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one > right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa > cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 03:30:40 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:30:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <6DF2D527-9747-4B37-B026-C9D4BBFC3494@gmail.com> References: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> <6DF2D527-9747-4B37-B026-C9D4BBFC3494@gmail.com> Message-ID: That is cool. How do u get face time NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:03 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > FaceTime will work with voiceover on the iPhone, but it sounds very crackly when used in conjunction with each other. > > Come to think of it, I have helped my brother with his iPhone over FaceTime. > > I just don't think this combination is the perfect solution to helping someone learn the phone. > > > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> I've had no problem with facetime and VoiceOver, and I've been using my iPhone for over a year! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:28:13 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. >> >> FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. >> >> Antonio >> >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >> >> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 03:21:53 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:21:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: References: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> <6DF2D527-9747-4B37-B026-C9D4BBFC3494@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3051D037-3AB1-4086-912F-C96C746DF5AB@gmail.com> You set up FaceTime by going into the settings section and going to face time if it is not already set up. Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > That is cool. How do u get face time > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:03 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: > >> FaceTime will work with voiceover on the iPhone, but it sounds very crackly when used in conjunction with each other. >> >> Come to think of it, I have helped my brother with his iPhone over FaceTime. >> >> I just don't think this combination is the perfect solution to helping someone learn the phone. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> I've had no problem with facetime and VoiceOver, and I've been using my iPhone for over a year! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:28:13 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>> >>> You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. >>> >>> FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >>> >>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>> the NFB metal tips? >>> Thanks, >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 26 04:11:39 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:11:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da4dbb.c587440a.48db.30bc@mx.google.com> References: <50da4dbb.c587440a.48db.30bc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Sarah! My name is Kate. The iPhone is definitely tricky to start using it. To get to the next homepage screen, slide three fingers horizontally from right the left, have your fingers in a straight horizontal line. Facetime may not work because of your internet connection, so check that under settings. To be sure you are clicking on everything, wait until you hear the item, then double click it. Please feel free to call/text me with any questions 203-273-8463 Kate On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Sarah wrote: > It wouldn't let me accept your Facetime invite. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:08:12 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > what is face time. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 26 04:13:47 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:13:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <195DD7EA-DAD7-49EC-8833-B97F855B76B7@me.com> Hey Sophie! Text edit, I feel, is a better and more accessible program for typing, sending, and editing documents. It is a free application, already built in to every Mac computer. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Kate On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! > Best wishes always, > Sophie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 26 04:15:16 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:15:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> Message-ID: Text edit is a simpler application than Pages. I have both, and use text edit more often. On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? > > Sophie Trist > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > >> hello there, >> >> word is by far not the best solution for us. >> I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. >> with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! >> >> mauricio >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >>> Best wishes always, >>> Sophie >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 03:43:24 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:43:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <3051D037-3AB1-4086-912F-C96C746DF5AB@gmail.com> References: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> <6DF2D527-9747-4B37-B026-C9D4BBFC3494@gmail.com> <3051D037-3AB1-4086-912F-C96C746DF5AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5071F8C4-D25C-4F83-9CE3-23615CCBB5C8@gmail.com> thank u i will do it. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 25, 2012, at 10:21 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > You set up FaceTime by going into the settings section and going to face time if it is not already set up. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> That is cool. How do u get face time >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:03 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: >> >>> FaceTime will work with voiceover on the iPhone, but it sounds very crackly when used in conjunction with each other. >>> >>> Come to think of it, I have helped my brother with his iPhone over FaceTime. >>> >>> I just don't think this combination is the perfect solution to helping someone learn the phone. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> I've had no problem with facetime and VoiceOver, and I've been using my iPhone for over a year! >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:28:13 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>>> >>>> You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. >>>> >>>> FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. >>>> >>>> Antonio >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >>>> >>>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Sarah and Wizard >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>>> the NFB metal tips? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 26 04:26:23 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kate) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:26:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac laptop question. Message-ID: Hello all! Merry Christmas! I have a quick question regarding music and iTunes. Please help? I was wondering how you guys download music, preferably free, on iTunes and how to transfer it onto your iPhone. I am so not tech oriented with computers. Thanks in advance! Kathryn Webster From zdreicer at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 04:23:16 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 21:23:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <5071F8C4-D25C-4F83-9CE3-23615CCBB5C8@gmail.com> References: <50da51bf.0901650a.49e7.7fce@mx.google.com> <6DF2D527-9747-4B37-B026-C9D4BBFC3494@gmail.com> <3051D037-3AB1-4086-912F-C96C746DF5AB@gmail.com> <5071F8C4-D25C-4F83-9CE3-23615CCBB5C8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Okay. I'm here for you if you need me. You can reach me at this email address. Merry Christmas! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:43 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > thank u i will do it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 10:21 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > >> You set up FaceTime by going into the settings section and going to face time if it is not already set up. >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> >>> That is cool. How do u get face time >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:03 PM, "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." wrote: >>> >>>> FaceTime will work with voiceover on the iPhone, but it sounds very crackly when used in conjunction with each other. >>>> >>>> Come to think of it, I have helped my brother with his iPhone over FaceTime. >>>> >>>> I just don't think this combination is the perfect solution to helping someone learn the phone. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've had no problem with facetime and VoiceOver, and I've been using my iPhone for over a year! >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:28:13 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>>>> >>>>> You will need a different means of communication to help her with her iPhone needs. >>>>> >>>>> FaceTime and voiceover do not mix well. >>>>> >>>>> Antonio >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Sarah and Wizard >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>>>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>>>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>>>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>>>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>>>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>>>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>>>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>>>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>>>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>>>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>>>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>>>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>>>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>>>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>>>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>>>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>>>> the NFB metal tips? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>>>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>>>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>>>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 04:51:35 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:51:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> Message-ID: <395D84DC-4E90-493E-8F08-0D8D7C7ADEB2@gmail.com> Pages is in general a more powerful word processor than text edit. Text edit will do quite a lot of things though, so check it out and see if it does what you need. I used pages extensively in graduate school to write my papers for class etc. It is trickier to learn but still not terrible. Try out text edit first since it is already on your mac. Pages is sold on its own or as part of the iWork suite, which includes numbers (spreadsheets like excel), and keynote (like powerpoint). Best of luck. -Greg On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? > > Sophie Trist > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > >> hello there, >> >> word is by far not the best solution for us. >> I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. >> with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! >> >> mauricio >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >>> Best wishes always, >>> Sophie >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 15:01:42 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:01:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <395D84DC-4E90-493E-8F08-0D8D7C7ADEB2@gmail.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> <395D84DC-4E90-493E-8F08-0D8D7C7ADEB2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9B76520C-31C9-46BB-9AB3-40FE8887A175@gmail.com> do pages and text edit work well with i pads. i need a way to do my work, when my laptop is not out. like when i am waiting at an appointments. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 25, 2012, at 11:51 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > Pages is in general a more powerful word processor than text edit. Text edit will do quite a lot of things though, so check it out and see if it does what you need. I used pages extensively in graduate school to write my papers for class etc. It is trickier to learn but still not terrible. > > Try out text edit first since it is already on your mac. Pages is sold on its own or as part of the iWork suite, which includes numbers (spreadsheets like excel), and keynote (like powerpoint). > > Best of luck. > > -Greg > On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? >> >> Sophie Trist >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >> >>> hello there, >>> >>> word is by far not the best solution for us. >>> I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. >>> with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! >>> >>> mauricio >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >>>> Best wishes always, >>>> Sophie >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 16:09:03 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:09:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac laptop question. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <-4748457058706051931@unknownmsgid> Kate, This would depend on what operating system and screen reader you are using. Are you using a Mac or Windows computer? What screen reader are you using; JAWS, NVDA, etc.? We may be able to help you more once we know some of that information, as some of the commands and keystrokes are different with each screen reader. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Kate wrote: > Hello all! Merry Christmas! I have a quick question regarding music and iTunes. Please help? I was wondering how you guys download music, preferably free, on iTunes and how to transfer it onto your iPhone. I am so not tech oriented with computers. Thanks in advance! > > Kathryn Webster > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 16:28:50 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:28:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50da2da8.e1c8440a.2afd.79f5@mx.google.com> References: <50da2da8.e1c8440a.2afd.79f5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8701903972979605763@unknownmsgid> When it says slide to power off, just double tap it and it will shut down. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Sarah wrote: > And for some reason, when I go to turn it off, it says slide to turn off and when I slide my finger it just says cancel button. I can double-tap it but when I try using the slide meyod it don't work. How come? I slid my finger from left to right on the bottom and then tried from right to left. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mauricio Almeida To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:17:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 26 17:24:39 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 11:24:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: The Echevarria Travel Show on January 2, 2013 with Guest Andrew Garnett of Special Needs at Sea Message-ID: > >---------- >Good morning all: > >This month on the WTOE Network/www.thruoureyes.org on January 2, >2013 at 8pm Eastern. The Echevarria Travel Show with your host >Cheryl Echevarria will be interviewing the President/CEO of Special >Needs a Sea, Mr. Andrew Garnett. His company specializes in all >forms of rental products for those who are disabled, such things as >Wheelchair and Scooter Rental, to Oxygen, special beds and chairs >and so much more. For people who are cruising or any travel >destination this is for you. > >Cheryl will also be interviewing Mrs. Christine Faltz-Grassman and >member of the NFB of NY and also a client of Echevarria Travel, we >will be discussing her families travels to Ireland back in August of 2011. > >Thruoureyes.org is produced by the Northeast Chapter of the NFB of New Jersey. > >To call in to ask questions are 1-888-572-0141 and you can watch and >or listen to the show by going to www.thruoureyes.org, also on >youtube.com/wtoenetwork > >Past shows are on the home page of www.echevarriatravel.com > >Come and list and learn, and ask questions. > > >WTOE Radio MOBILE - Watch/Listen LIVE, Get Broadcast Schedule, >Watch/Listen to Current and Archived Podcasts on ANY Smartphone or >Destop. Enter m.thruoureyes.org in your mobile/desktop browser >GREAT for JAWS users!! > >Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State > >Leading the Way in Independent Travel! > >SNG Certified - Accessible Travel Advocate! > >Cheryl Echevarria, Owner >http://www.echevarriatravel.com >631-456-5394 >reservations at echevarriatravel.com >http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com > >2012 Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member. > >Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose Travel >CST - #1018299-10 >Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation of the >Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the >http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any >vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and >vacation must be traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of >my earnings will go to the affiliate. Also is you book a Sandals >for couples or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation, >$100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well. You do not >need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through us. From kathrynwebster at me.com Wed Dec 26 17:39:09 2012 From: kathrynwebster at me.com (Kathryn Webster) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:39:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac laptop question. In-Reply-To: <-4748457058706051931@unknownmsgid> References: <-4748457058706051931@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4BD57D86-F863-4C85-B4DA-FE1920FE2F91@me.com> I use a Mac book with voice over Sent from my iPhone On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:09 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Kate, > > This would depend on what operating system and screen reader you are > using. Are you using a Mac or Windows computer? What screen reader are > you using; JAWS, NVDA, etc.? We may be able to help you more once we > know some of that information, as some of the commands and keystrokes > are different with each screen reader. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Kate wrote: > >> Hello all! Merry Christmas! I have a quick question regarding music and iTunes. Please help? I was wondering how you guys download music, preferably free, on iTunes and how to transfer it onto your iPhone. I am so not tech oriented with computers. Thanks in advance! >> >> Kathryn Webster >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 18:02:43 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:02:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac laptop question. In-Reply-To: <4BD57D86-F863-4C85-B4DA-FE1920FE2F91@me.com> References: <-4748457058706051931@unknownmsgid> <4BD57D86-F863-4C85-B4DA-FE1920FE2F91@me.com> Message-ID: <-7550051794889430008@unknownmsgid> Kate, Okay. I'm sorry I'm not able to help you with this, as I use Windows. I'm sure some of our other listers will be able to help you, though. Thanks for the info! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Kathryn Webster wrote: > I use a Mac book with voice over > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:09 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >> Kate, >> >> This would depend on what operating system and screen reader you are >> using. Are you using a Mac or Windows computer? What screen reader are >> you using; JAWS, NVDA, etc.? We may be able to help you more once we >> know some of that information, as some of the commands and keystrokes >> are different with each screen reader. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Kate wrote: >> >>> Hello all! Merry Christmas! I have a quick question regarding music and iTunes. Please help? I was wondering how you guys download music, preferably free, on iTunes and how to transfer it onto your iPhone. I am so not tech oriented with computers. Thanks in advance! >>> >>> Kathryn Webster >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 18:46:50 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:46:50 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? Whanks Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Oh ok I didn't try that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 18:46:52 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:46:52 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50db461e.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa630@mx.google.com> thank you, I'm trying to figure out how to delete emails from my iPhone. There's ablind the other options at the bottom except the delete option. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate wrote: Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebste r%40me.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 18:49:09 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:49:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> References: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-4075109427538946835@unknownmsgid> If you have it set up as a Gmail account, you have to delete an email by moving it to the trash folder. You do this by double tapping the move button then swiping right until it says trash folder and double tapping on that. Hope this helps! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Sarah wrote: > Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? > > Whanks > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:57:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Sarah and all, > > Yes, or you can do a one finger swipe up and it will go between pages. > This goes for any adjustable menu; that is, everything that voiceover > says adjustable on. > > > Hope everyone had a great Christmas! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Oh ok I didn't try that. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it > will move to the second page. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Hello, > > Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the > bar just above the dock area is highlighted. > > Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. > > I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like > turning the pages on the book. > > Antonio > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida > wrote: > > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with > VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried > sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not > working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I > love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with > NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that > I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is > better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the > joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to > try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass > rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb > question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up > I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, > and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, > so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I > can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just > don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are > similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one > right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa > cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 18:57:10 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:57:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50db4888.47e2440a.3934.ffffa667@mx.google.com> Ok thanks. That's what I've been doing. ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? Whanks Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Oh ok I didn't try that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 19:09:57 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 14:09:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <-4075109427538946835@unknownmsgid> References: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> <-4075109427538946835@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: i would have said that, but i was not sure, as i am working with an IPad. but they all seem to work the same way.the iPad, iTouch and the iPone. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > If you have it set up as a Gmail account, you have to delete an email > by moving it to the trash folder. You do this by double tapping the > move button then swiping right until it says trash folder and double > tapping on that. Hope this helps! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? >> >> Whanks >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: christopher nusbaum > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:57:56 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> Sarah and all, >> >> Yes, or you can do a one finger swipe up and it will go between pages. >> This goes for any adjustable menu; that is, everything that voiceover >> says adjustable on. >> >> >> Hope everyone had a great Christmas! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >> Oh ok I didn't try that. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sophie Trist > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it >> will move to the second page. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> Hello, >> >> Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the >> bar just above the dock area is highlighted. >> >> Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. >> >> I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like >> turning the pages on the book. >> >> Antonio >> >> >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida >> wrote: >> >> hi sarah, >> >> slide one finger upwards. >> >> mauricio >> >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah > wrote: >> >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with >> VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried >> sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not >> working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I >> love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with >> NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that >> I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is >> better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the >> joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to >> try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass >> rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb >> question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up >> I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, >> and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, >> so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I >> can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just >> don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are >> similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one >> right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa >> cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm >> eida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 20:08:00 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:08:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: References: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> <-4075109427538946835@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I have a Gmail account and there is a delete shortcut in IOS 6. From the inbox point to the message you want to delete and then flick down with one finger. VoiceOver will say "delete" and then double-tap and the message will be deleted. For this to work, the VoiceOver rotor setting needs to be on "actions" but it should be that way by default. Arielle On 12/26/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > i would have said that, but i was not sure, as i am working with an IPad. > but they all seem to work the same way.the iPad, iTouch and the iPone. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, christopher nusbaum > wrote: > >> If you have it set up as a Gmail account, you have to delete an email >> by moving it to the trash folder. You do this by double tapping the >> move button then swiping right until it says trash folder and double >> tapping on that. Hope this helps! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >>> Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, >>> mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd >>> button? >>> >>> Whanks >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: christopher nusbaum >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:57:56 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>> >>> Sarah and all, >>> >>> Yes, or you can do a one finger swipe up and it will go between pages. >>> This goes for any adjustable menu; that is, everything that voiceover >>> says adjustable on. >>> >>> >>> Hope everyone had a great Christmas! >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>> Oh ok I didn't try that. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sophie Trist >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list>> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>> >>> If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it >>> will move to the second page. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the >>> bar just above the dock area is highlighted. >>> >>> Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. >>> >>> I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like >>> turning the pages on the book. >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida >>> wrote: >>> >>> hi sarah, >>> >>> slide one finger upwards. >>> >>> mauricio >>> >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with >>> VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried >>> sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not >>> working. Whanks in advance. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I >>> love my >>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with >>> NFB >>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that >>> I am >>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is >>> better, >>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the >>> joints >>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to >>> try a >>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass >>> rigid >>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb >>> question, >>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up >>> I was >>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, >>> and when >>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, >>> so I >>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I >>> can >>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just >>> don't >>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are >>> similar to >>> the NFB metal tips? >>> Thanks, >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one >>> right now, but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa >>> cane? Is there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm >>> eida%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 20:12:41 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:12:41 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50db5a3b.6fd2440a.4c2d.ffffb9dc@mx.google.com> Ok thanks. I will try that and see if I have any success. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: i would have said that, but i was not sure, as i am working with an IPad. but they all seem to work the same way.the iPad, iTouch and the iPone. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? Whanks Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Oh ok I didn't try that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 20:46:05 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 14:46:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50db6245.c3a3ec0a.6ad7.ffffe7d1@mx.google.com> If you have a version thats not IOS 6, there's another, easier way to delete emails if you have a whole bunch of them in your inbox. You can double tap the Edit button and then scroll through your messages. Each message you double tap gets selected. You can move all the selected messages to the trash folder. This is more efficient because you can move 20 messages instead of one. Once in the trash folder, you click Edit again and flick along the bottom row. There, there's a button called Delete All. Double tap that, and all the emails in the trash folder will be deleted. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: i would have said that, but i was not sure, as i am working with an IPad. but they all seem to work the same way.the iPad, iTouch and the iPone. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? Whanks Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Oh ok I didn't try that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 21:40:09 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:40:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50db6245.c3a3ec0a.6ad7.ffffe7d1@mx.google.com> References: <50db6245.c3a3ec0a.6ad7.ffffe7d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6916048263393365023@unknownmsgid> Is there a different way to do that in iOS six? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 26, 2012, at 2:47 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > If you have a version thats not IOS 6, there's another, easier way to delete emails if you have a whole bunch of them in your inbox. You can double tap the Edit button and then scroll through your messages. Each message you double tap gets selected. You can move all the selected messages to the trash folder. This is more efficient because you can move 20 messages instead of one. Once in the trash folder, you click Edit again and flick along the bottom row. There, there's a button called Delete All. Double tap that, and all the emails in the trash folder will be deleted. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:08:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > I have a Gmail account and there is a delete shortcut in IOS 6. From > the inbox point to the message you want to delete and then flick down > with one finger. VoiceOver will say "delete" and then double-tap and > the message will be deleted. For this to work, the VoiceOver rotor > setting needs to be on "actions" but it should be that way by default. > Arielle > > On 12/26/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > i would have said that, but i was not sure, as i am working with an IPad. > but they all seem to work the same way.the iPad, iTouch and the iPone. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > If you have it set up as a Gmail account, you have to delete an email > by moving it to the trash folder. You do this by double tapping the > move button then swiping right until it says trash folder and double > tapping on that. Hope this helps! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, > mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd > button? > > Whanks > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:57:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Sarah and all, > > Yes, or you can do a one finger swipe up and it will go between pages. > This goes for any adjustable menu; that is, everything that voiceover > says adjustable on. > > > Hope everyone had a great Christmas! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Oh ok I didn't try that. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it > will move to the second page. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Hello, > > Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the > bar just above the dock area is highlighted. > > Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. > > I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like > turning the pages on the book. > > Antonio > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida > wrote: > > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with > VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried > sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not > working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I > love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with > NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that > I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is > better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the > joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to > try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass > rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb > question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up > I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, > and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, > so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I > can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just > don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are > similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one > right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa > cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 03:17:14 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:17:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <9B76520C-31C9-46BB-9AB3-40FE8887A175@gmail.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> <395D84DC-4E90-493E-8F08-0D8D7C7ADEB2@gmail.com> <9B76520C-31C9-46BB-9AB3-40FE8887A175@gmail.com> Message-ID: <120210F8-9C81-4BA0-B490-6A13C9FD0127@gmail.com> Can files created in pages and/or TextEdit be converted into word documents? If not, can they be read by non-Apple computers? Sophie Trist Sent from my iPhone On Dec 26, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > do pages and text edit work well with i pads. i need a way to do my work, when my laptop is not out. like when i am waiting at an appointments. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 11:51 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > >> Pages is in general a more powerful word processor than text edit. Text edit will do quite a lot of things though, so check it out and see if it does what you need. I used pages extensively in graduate school to write my papers for class etc. It is trickier to learn but still not terrible. >> >> Try out text edit first since it is already on your mac. Pages is sold on its own or as part of the iWork suite, which includes numbers (spreadsheets like excel), and keynote (like powerpoint). >> >> Best of luck. >> >> -Greg >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? >>> >>> Sophie Trist >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>> >>>> hello there, >>>> >>>> word is by far not the best solution for us. >>>> I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. >>>> with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! >>>> >>>> mauricio >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> >>>>> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >>>>> Best wishes always, >>>>> Sophie >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 03:20:49 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 22:20:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <120210F8-9C81-4BA0-B490-6A13C9FD0127@gmail.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> <395D84DC-4E90-493E-8F08-0D8D7C7ADEB2@gmail.com> <9B76520C-31C9-46BB-9AB3-40FE8887A175@gmail.com> <120210F8-9C81-4BA0-B490-6A13C9FD0127@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, you can save pages documents as word documents. Text edit uses rtf files by default I think. Both of these are readable on PCs. -Greg On Dec 26, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Can files created in pages and/or TextEdit be converted into word documents? If not, can they be read by non-Apple computers? > > Sophie Trist > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 26, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> do pages and text edit work well with i pads. i need a way to do my work, when my laptop is not out. like when i am waiting at an appointments. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 11:51 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: >> >>> Pages is in general a more powerful word processor than text edit. Text edit will do quite a lot of things though, so check it out and see if it does what you need. I used pages extensively in graduate school to write my papers for class etc. It is trickier to learn but still not terrible. >>> >>> Try out text edit first since it is already on your mac. Pages is sold on its own or as part of the iWork suite, which includes numbers (spreadsheets like excel), and keynote (like powerpoint). >>> >>> Best of luck. >>> >>> -Greg >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? >>>> >>>> Sophie Trist >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>>> >>>>> hello there, >>>>> >>>>> word is by far not the best solution for us. >>>>> I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. >>>>> with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! >>>>> >>>>> mauricio >>>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >>>>>> Best wishes always, >>>>>> Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 07:13:54 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 02:13:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C46760B92574D23AB133AD9D1EDE0AF@OwnerPC> Joshua, nope, windows 8 runs on pcs. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions Kerri, this might not fully answer your questions, but from what information I gathered at the Jaws seminar, Windows 8 is only for touch screen devices, so if you don't like touch screens, you might want to stay away from it. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kerri Kosten [kerrik2006 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; Blind Talk Mailing List Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions Hi Everyone: I believe my aunt is going to get me a copy of Windows 8 on DVD for Christmas. I currently am running windows 7 with Jaws 14. Has anyone upgraded using a DVD copy of windows 8? After upgrading, were your files, music, and data restored or did you have to put everything back on from a backup? Should I back up everything before upgrading? I would normally back up everything anyway just to be safe, but the problem is right now I am on vacation and I do not have my portable hard drive with me in order to back up my music and documents. Right now, I have lots of sighted help available in case something goes wrong and when I return home I will not have much sighted help unless I hire a reader. So, I'd like to upgrade while I am still on vacation. If you have upgraded, was it accessible? Can you do the entire thing by yourself or did you have to have sighted assistance? Do you like windows 8? What are your thoughts? Is it worth upgrading to from windows 7? As I understand it, windows 8 comes with a Facebook tile/app thingy. Does it also come with a twitter tile/app as well? Are a lot of apps in the new Microsoft app store accessible? Thanks so much! Those are my questions for now! If I think of anything else I'll ask! Kerri _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 07:35:45 2012 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 02:35:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions In-Reply-To: <0C46760B92574D23AB133AD9D1EDE0AF@OwnerPC> References: <0C46760B92574D23AB133AD9D1EDE0AF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Everyone: It turns out I am not installing windows 8. It turns out after doing a bit more research I found out that a lot of the apps are still not yet fully accessible such as mail, calendars, the news app, and the sports app. The reason I wanted to get Windows 8 was for these apps, so I'm holding off. I guess I'll just get it when this current computer breaks or maybe next Christmas. Thanks for all your feedback! Kerri On 12/27/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > nope, windows 8 runs on pcs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions > > Kerri, this might not fully answer your questions, but from what information > > I gathered at the Jaws seminar, Windows 8 is only for touch screen devices, > > so if you don't like touch screens, you might want to stay away from it. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kerri Kosten > [kerrik2006 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; Blind Talk Mailing > > List > Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 8 Questions > > Hi Everyone: > > I believe my aunt is going to get me a copy of Windows 8 on DVD for > Christmas. > I currently am running windows 7 with Jaws 14. > Has anyone upgraded using a DVD copy of windows 8? After upgrading, > were your files, music, and data restored or did you have to put > everything back on from a backup? > Should I back up everything before upgrading? > I would normally back up everything anyway just to be safe, but the > problem is right now I am on vacation and I do not have my portable > hard drive with me in order to back up my music and documents. Right > now, I have lots of sighted help available in case something goes > wrong and when I return home I will not have much sighted help unless > I hire a reader. So, I'd like to upgrade while I am still on vacation. > If you have upgraded, was it accessible? Can you do the entire thing > by yourself or did you have to have sighted assistance? > Do you like windows 8? What are your thoughts? Is it worth upgrading > to from windows 7? > As I understand it, windows 8 comes with a Facebook tile/app thingy. > Does it also come with a twitter tile/app as well? > Are a lot of apps in the new Microsoft app store accessible? > > Thanks so much! Those are my questions for now! If I think of anything > else I'll ask! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 07:58:44 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 02:58:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> References: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <12E905324F7B47E9888A3DD59FCA8C37@OwnerPC> great and what did you get for christmas? -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 9:07 AM To: NFB Blind Talk list ; NFB NABS list ; NFB Talk List ; MDABS List ; NFBMD list ; NFB Greater Baltimore Chapter list ; Conversation Station Chatters list ; accessible-ios at googlegroups.com ; napub at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! Good morning everyone, I'd like to join with everybody who has posted their Christmas wishes so far in writing to wish everyone on these lists who celebrates the holiday a very merry Christmas!!! I hope all of you, like me, will be able to enjoy Christmas with your family and loved ones. If you are travelling for Christmas, stay safe. And above all, have fun!!! As for myself and my family, we're leaving in a couple of minutes for BWI Airport to catch a plane out to Kansas City to spend Christmas with family there! Very much looking forward to seeing them!!! Again, a very Merry Christmas to you all!!! If you're celebrating another holiday, I wish you the best! Chris Nusbaum _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 08:06:17 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 03:06:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com><36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> Message-ID: they probably went out of business if their phones don't work. -----Original Message----- From: John Moore Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again Speaking of canes, does anyone know what happened to the RainShine company? I am a huge fan of there canes and I was looking to order another one, but every time we call the numbers we can find, nothing happens. DId they go out of business? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 08:45:37 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 03:45:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> References: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> Hi, I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > what is face time. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" > wrote: > > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email > address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! > I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, > how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the > left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, > but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is > there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 09:27:07 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (coastergirl92 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 01:27:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> References: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1AF12A2F-0F69-44BE-B41F-51E359281D3E@gmail.com> You know the number for Apple tech support Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi, > I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. > Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? > Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. > > > -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> what is face time. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >> >> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 13:18:20 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:18:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> References: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <5C4CA6B2-D0A5-4015-83A1-C370E31142F4@gmail.com> there is nothing wrong with playing with iPhones during the holiday. what about people who eithr feel left out and or miss understood by their families, despite many atempts to be understood, or find comman interests. what about people who may not have families. or the fact that everyone talks to friends if they have them, weather there is a holiday or not. maybe family members r playing with their iPhones too. if i had 1, i would. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:45 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi, > I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. > Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? > Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. > > > -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> what is face time. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >> >> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >> >> Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Hi all, >> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >> the NFB metal tips? >> Thanks, >> Arielle >> >> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:12:24 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:12:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <1AF12A2F-0F69-44BE-B41F-51E359281D3E@gmail.com> References: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> <1AF12A2F-0F69-44BE-B41F-51E359281D3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5859930130263279927@unknownmsgid> (800) 692-7753. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:27 AM, "coastergirl92 at gmail.com" wrote: > You know the number for Apple tech support > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> Hi, >> I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. >> Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? >> Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n >> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >> >> Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. >> >> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >> >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: >> >>> Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>> >>> what is face time. >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >>> >>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>> >>> Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>> the NFB metal tips? >>> Thanks, >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:27:46 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:27:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <12E905324F7B47E9888A3DD59FCA8C37@OwnerPC> References: <50d7103b.ca41340a.72f3.ffff925f@mx.google.com> <12E905324F7B47E9888A3DD59FCA8C37@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4381287167637378428@unknownmsgid> Let's see... A Pen Friend, a set of luggage locators from the Independence Market, a bunch of iTunes gift cards, a Bluetooth keyboard for my iPhone, a a wireless handset for recording and Skype, some audio books... Whew! :-) How about you? Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2012, at 1:59 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > great and what did you get for christmas? > > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 9:07 AM > To: NFB Blind Talk list ; NFB NABS list ; NFB Talk List ; MDABS List ; NFBMD list ; NFB Greater Baltimore Chapter list ; Conversation Station Chatters list ; accessible-ios at googlegroups.com ; napub at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas! > > Good morning everyone, > > I'd like to join with everybody who has posted their Christmas > wishes so far in writing to wish everyone on these lists who > celebrates the holiday a very merry Christmas!!! I hope all of > you, like me, will be able to enjoy Christmas with your family > and loved ones. If you are travelling for Christmas, stay safe. > And above all, have fun!!! > > As for myself and my family, we're leaving in a couple of minutes > for BWI Airport to catch a plane out to Kansas City to spend > Christmas with family there! Very much looking forward to seeing > them!!! > > Again, a very Merry Christmas to you all!!! If you're celebrating > another holiday, I wish you the best! > > Chris Nusbaum > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:17:23 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:17:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> Message-ID: <7369610666585563186@unknownmsgid> They did. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2012, at 2:08 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > they probably went out of business if their phones don't work. > > -----Original Message----- From: John Moore > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:47 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Speaking of canes, does anyone know what happened to the RainShine company? I am a huge fan of there canes and I was looking to order another one, but every time we call the numbers we can find, nothing happens. DId they go out of business? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From davidb521 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 17:02:03 2012 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (david bouchard) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 12:02:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: http://weightpullquebec.com/wp-content/themes/themeMiniSiteWeightPull/gmm.html From dsykora29 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 18:25:27 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:25:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Canes again In-Reply-To: <7369610666585563186@unknownmsgid> References: <8360D68F-3C58-436D-99BA-F51CE3277AF2@gmail.com> <36EF7074-B223-41D2-8521-EAED93B31BA0@gmail.com> <7DE28A91-1F9A-42EF-B5C6-50A67A93E9F7@me.com> <7369610666585563186@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hello all, I use a folding graphite cane. It is pretty light (much lighter than aluminum) and it has never broken. It has a rolling-marshmello tip which is very easy to replace. On 12/27/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: > They did. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 27, 2012, at 2:08 AM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> they probably went out of business if their phones don't work. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: John Moore >> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:47 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >> >> Speaking of canes, does anyone know what happened to the RainShine >> company? I am a huge fan of there canes and I was looking to order another >> one, but every time we call the numbers we can find, nothing happens. DId >> they go out of business? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 18:54:32 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:54:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <5859930130263279927@unknownmsgid> References: <50da3e1b.4257420a.2ce4.4120@mx.google.com> <110A8C19-DBAB-4EF3-8421-5123B89F610F@gmail.com> <2FE81A76A6F745E7B5A23785343308D2@OwnerPC> <1AF12A2F-0F69-44BE-B41F-51E359281D3E@gmail.com> <5859930130263279927@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1090468B-3B06-40D6-A478-C40C82FBF5F5@gmail.com> thank u. i will give this number to my friends that have iPhones. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:12 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > (800) 692-7753. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:27 AM, "coastergirl92 at gmail.com" > wrote: > >> You know the number for Apple tech support >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. >>> Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? >>> Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>> >>> Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Lavonya Gardner >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help >>>> >>>> what is face time. >>>> >>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: >>>> >>>> I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Sarah and Wizard >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my >>>> NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and >>>> low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB >>>> telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at >>>> inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am >>>> unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, >>>> but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints >>>> becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a >>>> different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the >>>> graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid >>>> canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, >>>> but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was >>>> given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when >>>> the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I >>>> never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can >>>> easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't >>>> want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to >>>> the NFB metal tips? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: >>>> I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I >>>> may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there >>>> a web site? I've heard a lot about them. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 18:50:48 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 10:50:48 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50dc988c.a349420a.7391.4f62@mx.google.com> Hey Lavonya, can we exchange phone numbers? I have Autism and I am looking for friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: (800) 692-7753. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:27 AM, "coastergirl92 at gmail.com" wrote: You know the number for Apple tech support Sent from my iPhone On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: Hi, I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 19:23:56 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 14:23:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50dc988c.a349420a.7391.4f62@mx.google.com> References: <50dc988c.a349420a.7391.4f62@mx.google.com> Message-ID: yes, my email is lgardner1416 at gmail.com. e me, and i will give u my number. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 27, 2012, at 1:50 PM, Sarah wrote: > Hey Lavonya, can we exchange phone numbers? I have Autism and I am looking for friends. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:54:32 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > thank u. i will give this number to my friends that have iPhones. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:12 AM, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > (800) 692-7753. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:27 AM, "coastergirl92 at gmail.com" > wrote: > > You know the number for Apple tech support > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > > Hi, > I'm surprised many of you are playing on I phones instead of having fun with family on the holiday. > Anyway, Sara, if you cannot figure it out, have someone sighted look at it or isn't there apple phone support? > Also, I did not think face time worked with voice over. hmm, maybe they improved it since I heard about it. > > > -----Original Message----- From: Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Face time is so you can see a friend on video. Since your texting me right now I will tell you more about it and then give you a quick demo on there. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Yeah Facetime sounds cool! What is it exactly? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:02:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > what is face time. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:20 PM, "Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n" wrote: > > I can help you with all of your iPhone needs on face time at this email address Sarah! Give me a call on FaceTime and I'd be glad to talk to you! I await your call! > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the > graphite folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid > canes, which is what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, > but are the Ambutech tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was > given aluminum folding canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when > the tips wore out my O&M instructor always replaced them for me, so I > never learned how to do it myself. I want a cane with a tip I can > easily replace if it wears out while on the go or when I just don't > want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech canes take tips that are similar to > the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I > may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there > a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 23:45:32 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 15:45:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: You and Bookshare Can Make the World A Better Place In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003e01cde48c$43d158c0$cb740a40$@gmail.com> From: Betsy Beaumon, Bookshare [mailto:Betsy_Beaumon_Bookshare at mail.vresp.com] Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 2:26 PM To: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Subject: You and Bookshare Can Make the World A Better Place Dear Humberto, We are very grateful for the response we have received to our request for support. To those of you who have made a gift, thank you for helping to improve the lives of many more people who can now take advantage of the benefits of Bookshare. There's still time to make a year-end gift! Because Bookshare delivers such a great value in service for every dollar we receive, your gift will go a long way toward meeting the needs of many potential Bookshare members whom we are eager to serve. Please consider a year end gift to spread the joy of reading. Happy New Year, Betsy Beaumon Vice President & General Manager, Benetech Literacy Team DonateNow _____ Click to view this email in a browser If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe _____ Benetech 480 S. California Ave., Suite 201 Palo Alto, California 94306 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. Non-Profits Email Free with VerticalResponse! From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Dec 28 00:29:00 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:29:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists In-Reply-To: <50d54fd2.467b3a0a.7bcb.2b99@mx.google.com> References: <50d54fd2.467b3a0a.7bcb.2b99@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Vejas, Do you mean the nfb music list? Is it only geared toward people who perform music? Is accessible music discussed in general? I know we can hear all music. What I mean is music accessible accessories such as music editing software, creating digital music and burning music and accessible music electronics. I know my friend is interested in discussing software and someday I may be as well. Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: vejas Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:14 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Hi, I'm on the music-talk list as well. The traffic isn't bad at all and it's a very fun list. I suggest you join. Vejas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <50d54fd2.467b3a0a.7bcb.2b99@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2101D40F18F445639B4106EEE04A15F1@OwnerPC> Julie, How do I find the MENVI list? Are their list archives public? Also, are you studying music in school or play it for fun? Thanks, and can I share your email address with him? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:45 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Hi. Aside from the music-talk NFB list, there is the perform-talk list. You can find it at nfbnet.org. You can find them under the list of lists. Another great resource is MENVI: Music Education Network for Visually Impaired. They have a great list serve and news letter. I have enjoyed so much being on their list. It can be a bit high traffic at times, but nothing compared to this list. Let me know if your friend wants any other resources! On 12/22/12, vejas wrote: > Hi, > I'm on the music-talk list as well. The traffic isn't bad at all > and it's a very fun list. I suggest you join. > Vejas > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:57:07 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] music lists > > Hi all, > > My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have > comtemplated playing music as well. > > Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the > subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic > load like? > > I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and > network, particularly for my friend. > > thanks, > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g > mail.com > > > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Dec 28 00:31:47 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:31:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists In-Reply-To: <1D7F01B9CC4D4161855A8BDBD91F8C55@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC> <1D7F01B9CC4D4161855A8BDBD91F8C55@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Brandon, Thanks. Is the last list you mentioned for professional musicians or more general music players? When you say classically trained, is this refering to classical music? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Hello, Menvi is the first list that comes to mind: http://www.menvi.org/ It is a network of music students and transcribers. Musictlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org With more people who are not classically trained. Braille Music Chat: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/braille-music-chat/?v=1&t=directory&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=dir&slk=45 This is more international, lots of people from the UK and I believe just about everyone on there is classically trained or is an avid reader of Braille Music. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Hi all, My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have comtemplated playing music as well. Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic load like? I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and network, particularly for my friend. thanks, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 05:43:18 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:43:18 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists In-Reply-To: References: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC><1D7F01B9CC4D4161855A8BDBD91F8C55@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <2EE8364BD8054567A90DA8CE9EBBD83A@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Classically trained means that you have studied either with a private teacher for many years and have an extensive knowledge of your instrument including the earliest composers, or you have attended a music program in college and taken music theory, music history, piano and have a little piece of paper saying you have a degree. Generally these people are classical musicians, strictly playing classical music, but some think playing pop music is fun :P... Those are few and far between though. An education sometimes gets in the way of playing pop music. music talk has a couple audio engineers, but if you really want information on something you need to subscribe for the specific list. there is a midi music list, a Sonar list, a good feel list and probably all other lists I've never heard of. But for general music talk, the lists I gave are probably best. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 4:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Brandon, Thanks. Is the last list you mentioned for professional musicians or more general music players? When you say classically trained, is this refering to classical music? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Hello, Menvi is the first list that comes to mind: http://www.menvi.org/ It is a network of music students and transcribers. Musictlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org With more people who are not classically trained. Braille Music Chat: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/braille-music-chat/?v=1&t=directory&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=dir&slk=45 This is more international, lots of people from the UK and I believe just about everyone on there is classically trained or is an avid reader of Braille Music. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Hi all, My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have comtemplated playing music as well. Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic load like? I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and network, particularly for my friend. thanks, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Fri Dec 28 14:48:49 2012 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 09:48:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Backing up a windows hard drive to an external hard drive Message-ID: Hi I have an external hard drive to back up my laptop. However, the program that I use, which I found online, is completely inaccessible with JAWS. Do you know of any backup programs that are accessible? The program I use is backup and recovery free addition, but it would be great to find a program that is accessible. Ian From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 18:04:01 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 10:04:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile Update in App Store Today In-Reply-To: <26807702.1356706191375.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra> References: <26807702.1356706191375.JavaMail.Administrator@newsline-srvra> Message-ID: <006701cde525$b810ecc0$2832c640$@gmail.com> From: Scott White [mailto:swhite at nfb.org] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:41 AM To: Humberto Avila Subject: NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile Update in App Store Today Last week an e-mail was accidentally distributed stating that version 2.0 of our app was available for download from the Apple App Store. Today I have confirmed that the updated version 2.0 of NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile is currently available in the App Store ready for download. Please read below for further details. We are pleased to announce that NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile App 2.0 is now in the Apple App Store for you to download. We have made several improvements and smoothed out some of the bugs that appeared after the iOS 6.0 update was released by Apple. Now you should have a better user experience and access to some of the other information provided by NFB-NEWSLINE. Now you can receive your emergency weather alerts right on your iPhone with the NFB-NEWSLINE Mobile App. If there is a weather alert for your area, and your address and zip code is up to date on your NFB-NEWSLINE® account, you will hear a message saying “weather alert” when you launch your NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile app, and you will feel your iPhone vibrate. Just double tap on the weather alert button when you hear the alert, and you can read the entire weather alert on your iPhone. Please keep in mind that only the iPhone will vibrate, since only the iPhone has the built-in vibration motor. Those of you running the NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile App on an iPad or an iPod will only receive the voice alert without the vibration. If you want to get just the vibration alert without the voice alert, you can turn off the voice alert for weather alerts in the settings menu. If you need to update your address and zip code, you can call 1-866-504-7300, or e-mail nfbnewsline-ios at nfb.org. We have also added a Messages section, so that you may read the latest announcements and information that we post on NFB-NEWSLINE. We put up messages from time to time to inform our subscribers about latest enhancements and changes to NFB-NEWSLINE, and these can be read from the Messages section in the NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile App. The Messages button will appear under the welcome message on your home screen. Please note that messages will only appear if you have active Internet service through a Wi-Fi connection or your mobile carrier. You can also read more extensively about these new changes and enhancements to NFB-NEWSLINE® in the Messages section. We have made other small improvements and changes to the NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile App that will enhance your user experience. For example, now you can update your subscriptions in the subscriptions section without any problems, and the jump to channel on-screen keyboard in the TV listings has been improved so that now you get the numeric keypad when typing in a channel number instead of the full QWERTY keyboard. Once again, we would like to remind you that we have added two new publications in a new category labeled Breaking News Online. These are the Huffington Post, a very well-known online site, and CNN, which is part of Turner Broadcasting System’s cable news network. The Breaking News Online category can be found by first selecting the Publications button off the home screen of the app, and then selecting Publication Options toward the bottom of the screen. Finally, select the Publication Groups button to see a list of available groups including the new Breaking News Online category. Optionally, to add the online breaking news publications to your favorites list or your subscriptions list on the NFB-NEWSLINE® App, just go to Settings, and then select either Manage Favorites or Manage Subscriptions, depending on which you want to add it to, then select either the Add to Favorites button at the bottom of the screen, or the Add to Subscriptions button, and pick the publication that you want to add from the list. In order to update your NFB-NEWSLINE® App, just go to the App store, then to the Updates tab, and you should see NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile as one of the applications listed as ready to update. Select the update button, and it should start to download the new version of the app on to your device. Please enjoy the new enhancements to the NFB-NEWSLINE® Mobile App, and give us your feedback by e-mail at swhite at nfb.org, or call our comment line at 410-505-5896 and leave us a voice message. The NFB-NEWSLINE Team From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 18:27:41 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 10:27:41 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fill out a Simple Survey (Only 10 to 15 Minutes!) Message-ID: I hope that all of your holiday breaks are splendid. I know that I have put a couple of notices on the list about this survey, but I just wanted to remind you guys one more time in case you have a minute now that you have a break from school. Thanks. Fill out the MeetUp Survey Today! Help us create an awesome app that will assist you with meeting up with friends. A research team at the University of Washington is investigating how useful an app will be. This app is called MeetUp, and it will allow 2 people to leave different places and to meet up in a location between both of them. This app will use GPS technology and update in realtime so that the route is continuously efficient. We are interested in blind and sighted users in completing a simple, secure, and confidential online survey about this app that will take only 10 to 15 minutes. Participants must be at least 18 years old and proficient with smart phones. Go to https://catalyst.uw.edu/webq/survey/narakim/183043 to fill out the survey now! The last page includes an opportunity to enter a drawing for some Amazon gift cards. Thank you, and please direct any questions about our research to Professor Richard Ladner, ladner at cs.washington.edu, or to my work email at bennec3 at uw.edu. -- Cindy Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com From dsykora29 at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 22:40:04 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:40:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone Message-ID: Hello everyone, I know there have been a lot questions about the iPhone lately; here are some more. I have been considering getting an iPhone but I really have no idea how to use it. I know that an iPhone will work with a braille display via buetooth but I don't know exactly how to set this up. Also, I know you can use a keyboard or braille overlay; are there any significant benefits or disadvantages to either? Are there any aps that would be especially useful for me to download? Any help would be appreciated, Danielle From zdreicer at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 22:56:51 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 15:56:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25BCC5FA-2146-478A-9D30-BC0D6C67E9AB@gmail.com> Hi Danielle, I'm Zach, I would be happy to assist you with any questions you have off list of this email address. I look forward to receiving your questions. Thanks and have a great day! Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 28, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hello everyone, > I know there have been a lot questions about the iPhone lately; here > are some more. I have been considering getting an iPhone but I really > have no idea how to use it. > I know that an iPhone will work with a braille display via buetooth > but I don't know exactly how to set this up. Also, I know you can use > a keyboard or braille overlay; are there any significant benefits or > disadvantages to either? Are there any aps that would be especially > useful for me to download? > Any help would be appreciated, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From kobycox at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 23:36:59 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:36:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <70D57FC0EEB74FD58B7528FFA457BBAB@OwnerPC> Please email mee off list concerning this. My email address Is as follows: kobycox at gmail.com. Thanks, Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone Hello everyone, I know there have been a lot questions about the iPhone lately; here are some more. I have been considering getting an iPhone but I really have no idea how to use it. I know that an iPhone will work with a braille display via buetooth but I don't know exactly how to set this up. Also, I know you can use a keyboard or braille overlay; are there any significant benefits or disadvantages to either? Are there any aps that would be especially useful for me to download? Any help would be appreciated, Danielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 00:04:24 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:04:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone In-Reply-To: <70D57FC0EEB74FD58B7528FFA457BBAB@OwnerPC> References: <70D57FC0EEB74FD58B7528FFA457BBAB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Danielle, I think this discussion is very pertinent to students so I will respond on-list unless Dave feels otherwise. I have an iPhone and I use a RefreshaBraille display that connects through bluetooth. The setup was easy and is done on the phone itself in the settings menu. I don't know how pairing works with Braille Notes and other Braille devices but I'd think it would be pretty simple. The good news is you only need to pair the devices once by entering some things into the settings menu, and then whenever you want to connect them again, all you have to do is turn both the phone and the Braille display on and put them near each other and they will automatically connect. I have also used a tactile overlay I got at Speed Dots and it was helpful although unfortunately it fell off. If you don't have a Braille display I might suggest getting a bluetooth keyboard, but if you already have a Braille notetaker or other Braille device with bluetooth connectivity, then I'd recommend using that as a keyboard since you have the added advantage of reading Braille output. The apps you get are really up to you. The phone comes with: text messaging, calendar, clock, game center, a videos app, a mail app, Safari Web browser, Itunes music, and a few others. I bought a GPS app called Ariadne GPS for $5.99 that provides good location information and can help you find your way back to a known location. It doesn't do turn-by-turn directions but the built-in maps app does though a bit unreliably. I found the phone a little frustrating to learn for the first week or two but the Braille keyboard was incredibly helpful in getting through that stage. Now I can do most gestures and (slow) typing on the on-screen keyboard without the Braille keyboard interface if I need to. Siri is also a helpful shortcut for dictating text messages and giving other commands to the phone. Best of luck, Arielle On 12/28/12, Koby Cox wrote: > Please email mee off list concerning this. My email address Is as > follows: > kobycox at gmail.com. > Thanks, > Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle > Sykora > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone > > Hello everyone, > I know there have been a lot questions about the iPhone lately; here > are some more. I have been considering getting an iPhone but I really > have no idea how to use it. > I know that an iPhone will work with a braille display via buetooth > but I don't know exactly how to set this up. Also, I know you can use > a keyboard or braille overlay; are there any significant benefits or > disadvantages to either? Are there any aps that would be especially > useful for me to download? > Any help would be appreciated, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Dec 29 16:06:02 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 11:06:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] music lists In-Reply-To: <2EE8364BD8054567A90DA8CE9EBBD83A@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <6136981C4E624E90BB30B3D22CC557F8@OwnerPC><1D7F01B9CC4D4161855A8BDBD91F8C55@BrandonsLaptop2> <2EE8364BD8054567A90DA8CE9EBBD83A@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <3DCE01ABA44445E197065C4C00D99C51@OwnerPC> Hi Brandon, Wow, I did not know about all those specific lists. Thanks for explaining classically trained; my friend grew up playing piano so I think he is in that category. What is Good Feel? I've heard of the other two softwares. Is there a list for using Cakewalk or other sound editing software? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Hello, Classically trained means that you have studied either with a private teacher for many years and have an extensive knowledge of your instrument including the earliest composers, or you have attended a music program in college and taken music theory, music history, piano and have a little piece of paper saying you have a degree. Generally these people are classical musicians, strictly playing classical music, but some think playing pop music is fun :P... Those are few and far between though. An education sometimes gets in the way of playing pop music. music talk has a couple audio engineers, but if you really want information on something you need to subscribe for the specific list. there is a midi music list, a Sonar list, a good feel list and probably all other lists I've never heard of. But for general music talk, the lists I gave are probably best. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 4:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Brandon, Thanks. Is the last list you mentioned for professional musicians or more general music players? When you say classically trained, is this refering to classical music? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] music lists Hello, Menvi is the first list that comes to mind: http://www.menvi.org/ It is a network of music students and transcribers. Musictlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org With more people who are not classically trained. Braille Music Chat: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/braille-music-chat/?v=1&t=directory&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=dir&slk=45 This is more international, lots of people from the UK and I believe just about everyone on there is classically trained or is an avid reader of Braille Music. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] music lists Hi all, My friend plays piano and majors in music therapy. I have comtemplated playing music as well. Can you suggest music lists for blind people? I would like the subscription info and if you’re on it, what is the list traffic load like? I think these will be good to have so we can learn from them and network, particularly for my friend. thanks, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 16:17:59 2012 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 09:17:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] mac and word In-Reply-To: <120210F8-9C81-4BA0-B490-6A13C9FD0127@gmail.com> References: <50da52a5.8991ec0a.6fd9.283c@mx.google.com> <8A9A7C7F-2EEA-40ED-A82E-DABAE2279369@gmail.com> <395D84DC-4E90-493E-8F08-0D8D7C7ADEB2@gmail.com> <9B76520C-31C9-46BB-9AB3-40FE8887A175@gmail.com> <120210F8-9C81-4BA0-B490-6A13C9FD0127@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901cde5e0$130a2780$391e7680$@gmail.com> Hi all, How does pages work or text quick work' What are the prose or cones of each of those ' Becky Sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] mac and word Can files created in pages and/or TextEdit be converted into word documents? If not, can they be read by non-Apple computers? Sophie Trist Sent from my iPhone On Dec 26, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > do pages and text edit work well with i pads. i need a way to do my work, when my laptop is not out. like when i am waiting at an appointments. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 11:51 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > >> Pages is in general a more powerful word processor than text edit. Text edit will do quite a lot of things though, so check it out and see if it does what you need. I used pages extensively in graduate school to write my papers for class etc. It is trickier to learn but still not terrible. >> >> Try out text edit first since it is already on your mac. Pages is sold on its own or as part of the iWork suite, which includes numbers (spreadsheets like excel), and keynote (like powerpoint). >> >> Best of luck. >> >> -Greg >> On Dec 25, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> My other friend recommended TextEdit, which is already on the Mac. Is this different than pages? If so, how? >>> >>> Sophie Trist >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: >>> >>>> hello there, >>>> >>>> word is by far not the best solution for us. >>>> I recommend you ask your dad if he can maybe return the app and buy pages. >>>> with pages, you can creat documents much more easily on the mac, and it gets better! you can them export the document into a doc one and share with all your friends who aren't lucky enough to have a mac! >>>> >>>> mauricio >>>> On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> >>>>> as you might know, I recently got a Macbook pro laptop. I'm making great progress with it. :) My dad's been wanting to install microsoft word on my computer. I talked to a blind friend, and he said that microsoft word didn't work well with VoiceOver. My dad bought me the program for Christmas, and I would appreciate getting some of your opinions before I install it. Thanks in advance for any input. I hope all of you had a merry, merry Christmas! >>>>> Best wishes always, >>>>> Sophie >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmai l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.c om >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.co m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 16:52:25 2012 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 09:52:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] IPad help please. In-Reply-To: <323BC5D2-B499-46DF-BD4C-582F9FB06437@me.com> References: <323BC5D2-B499-46DF-BD4C-582F9FB06437@me.com> Message-ID: <022c01cde5e4$e202c930$a6085b90$@gmail.com> Hi everyone, I have a couple of questions about the I pad two I got one right before Thanksgiving and have been having trouble with it. Some reason my contacts from my I phone did not go onto my pad is there a way to put them on the pad' Also does the pad two use serria on it' An also some reason it will not connect to my wirless. If anyone could help me with these items that would be great. You can email me off list at beckyasabo at gmail.com Becky Sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Moore Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 3:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] IPad help please. I am trying to type an email address into the IPad and can't find the at sign. I looked in the numbers and symbols lists and it appeared not to be there. Is there something you have to do to get that to show up? THanks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 17:17:23 2012 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 10:17:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> References: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <02dc01cde5e8$5ec98190$1c5c84b0$@gmail.com> Hi all, I have had my iPhone for a year but some reason lately I can not delete emails from my phone. Is there something wrong or I just forgot how to delete email messages. So I have to delete emails from my laptop and I really do not want to do that so any help would be great. Becky Sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:47 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd button? Whanks Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Oh ok I didn't try that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 17:23:42 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:23:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help In-Reply-To: <02dc01cde5e8$5ec98190$1c5c84b0$@gmail.com> References: <50db461b.a3e3440a.405c.ffffa62e@mx.google.com> <02dc01cde5e8$5ec98190$1c5c84b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <792A62A0-689C-445F-A792-65AEDF2152B9@gmail.com> hey becky this is lavonnya. i sent u an email. u may e me back if u want. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 29, 2012, at 12:17, "becky sabo" wrote: > Hi all, > I have had my iPhone for a year but some reason lately I can not delete > emails from my phone. Is there something wrong or I just forgot how to > delete email messages. So I have to delete emails from my laptop and I > really do not want to do that so any help would be great. > Becky Sabo > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:47 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Another right, how come I can't delete emails? I can only move, archive, > mark, or reply to them. I can't delete them. How do I find the deldffd > button? > > Whanks > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:57:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Sarah and all, > > Yes, or you can do a one finger swipe up and it will go between pages. > This goes for any adjustable menu; that is, everything that voiceover says > adjustable on. > > > Hope everyone had a great Christmas! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sarah > wrote: > > Oh ok I didn't try that. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:21:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > If you are on the icon that says "Page one" double tap it and it will move > to the second page. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:31:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone help > > Hello, > > Swiping one finger up to change the pages will only work if the bar just > above the dock area is highlighted. > > Otherwise the three finger swipe sideways should work just fine. > > I find this gesture easy to remember, since it is much like turning the > pages on the book. > > Antonio > > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mauricio Almeida > wrote: > > hi sarah, > > slide one finger upwards. > > mauricio > > > On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hello, I just got an iPhone 4s 64 gb. I'm just wonderthe with VoiceOver, > how do I view page 2 of my home screen? I tried sliding 3 fingers to the > left like my friend said but it's not working. Whanks in advance. > > Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:27:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Canes again > > Hi all, > I am also interested in feedback on Ambutech folding canes. I love my > NFB straight cane but I also want to get a good, reliable and > low-maintenance folding cane. I have had bad experiences with NFB > telescoping canes either breaking, spontaneously telescoping at > inconvenient times, or on the flip side, becoming so tight that I am > unable to telescope them. I have an NFB folding cane and it is better, > but I hesitate to use it a lot because occasionally one of the joints > becomes difficult to pop back into its place. I would like to try a > different folding cane manufacturer. How heavy or light do the graphite > folding canes feel compared with the NFB fiberglass rigid canes, which is > what I am used to? Also, this may be a dumb question, but are the Ambutech > tips easy to replace? When I was growing up I was given aluminum folding > canes with marshmallow or roller tips, and when the tips wore out my O&M > instructor always replaced them for me, so I never learned how to do it > myself. I want a cane with a tip I can easily replace if it wears out > while on the go or when I just don't want a lot of fuss. Do Ambutech > canes take tips that are similar to the NFB metal tips? > Thanks, > Arielle > > On 12/23/12, John Moore wrote: > I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, > but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? > Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 19:38:33 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 11:38:33 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone help Message-ID: <50df46c0.2551420a.4bc2.6103@mx.google.com> When you find an email swpe your from-er up and it should delete. But with this method you can only delete one at a time. I have over 2000 emails on my iPhone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "becky sabo" wrote: hi sarah, slide one finger upwards. mauricio On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Sarah wrote: I agree with you about the NFB telescoping canes. I use one right now, but I may look into one of these canes too. Where can I get an Iowa cane? Is there a web site? I've heard a lot about them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Dec 29 20:32:55 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:32:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My best advice is to buy the iOS book from National Braille Press -- and work your way through it. It will tech you most things. Dave At 04:40 PM 12/28/2012, you wrote: >Hello everyone, >I know there have been a lot questions about the iPhone lately; here >are some more. I have been considering getting an iPhone but I really >have no idea how to use it. >I know that an iPhone will work with a braille display via buetooth >but I don't know exactly how to set this up. Also, I know you can use >a keyboard or braille overlay; are there any significant benefits or >disadvantages to either? Are there any aps that would be especially >useful for me to download? >Any help would be appreciated, >Danielle From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 21:18:07 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 13:18:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone Message-ID: <50df5e16.a4f2440a.7ec1.501c@mx.google.com> How do I get this iOs book? Can I order it? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews Message-ID: Yes you can order It from National Braille press. Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone How do I get this iOs book? Can I order it? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews Is there a number for them or something, what's the method of ordering it. I pretty much have the world at my fingertips but I want to know everything there is to knowledge about VoiceOver and apps. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Koby Cox" Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather unfortunate, in my little town! A month ago, they just installed an ATM. The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and there's no Braille! How dare they? Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the phone. I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! Does anyone else have that problem on here? ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that college, that might need to use that ATM? Thanks, Joshua From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 21:42:59 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 13:42:59 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! Message-ID: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester Message-ID: <17290420C4F445B1B297A5DC441E2514@OwnerPC> I would suggest doing a google search for National Braille press. Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone Is there a number for them or something, what's the method of ordering it. I pretty much have the world at my fingertips but I want to know everything there is to knowledge about VoiceOver and apps. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Koby Cox" References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people together that want the same thing, then you might get more accomplished than if you just went on your own. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Dec 29 22:12:08 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:12:08 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com>, <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm the only blind person in my community that knows how to read Braille. The others are older and either don't want to learn, or are in the nursing home, or a combination of both. I still believe that since I'm in this community, and the ADA demands it, they should comply with the ADA! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people together that want the same thing, then you might get more accomplished than if you just went on your own. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 22:16:30 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 15:16:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com> <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, all, First...while I'm not above swearing sometimes, I think we ought to take at least a little thought to how we present ourselves on a public listserve with online archives anybody can read. I don't intend to pretend that I'm a moderator but I think we should be careful about how we say things in a public venue. That said, I do understand your frustration. I had an ATM without speech on my college campus and, fortunately, it was updated pretty soon after I moved in without me really doing anything. Perhaps your city has an ADA compliance officer who you could get in touch with? Best, Kirt On 12/29/12, Josh Gregory wrote: > Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the cited, and > that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with you, however, if > less people demanded, there will be no action. You need to be proactive and > get a group of people together that want the same thing, then you might get > more accomplished than if you just went on your own. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather >> unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and >> there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the >> phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that >> college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 22:17:11 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:17:11 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! Message-ID: <50df6bee.654f420a.5f87.5b65@mx.google.com> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the text field? Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com> <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Unfortunately, we don't have one. DeWitt is a small town, population 3300, (it used to be 3500.) Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Kirt Manwaring [kirt.crazydude at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! Hi, all, First...while I'm not above swearing sometimes, I think we ought to take at least a little thought to how we present ourselves on a public listserve with online archives anybody can read. I don't intend to pretend that I'm a moderator but I think we should be careful about how we say things in a public venue. That said, I do understand your frustration. I had an ATM without speech on my college campus and, fortunately, it was updated pretty soon after I moved in without me really doing anything. Perhaps your city has an ADA compliance officer who you could get in touch with? Best, Kirt On 12/29/12, Josh Gregory wrote: > Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the cited, and > that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with you, however, if > less people demanded, there will be no action. You need to be proactive and > get a group of people together that want the same thing, then you might get > more accomplished than if you just went on your own. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather >> unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and >> there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the >> phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that >> college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Dec 29 22:21:05 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <50df6bee.654f420a.5f87.5b65@mx.google.com> References: <50df6bee.654f420a.5f87.5b65@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sarah, and all! Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! http://www.aawalker.org Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha is accessible! I like that better! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the text field? Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: That's awesome! Also, Papa John's Website has an interesting captcha. It will ask this question. "Today is Saturday, what is tomorrow?" Then, you'll put Sunday in the box, and enter, and it will accept your form. This is a great topic of discussion on this list as well, because I've seen inaccessible captchas on college Websites, and they could benefit from using a solution like the ones we've been talking about. This is awesome! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <39C80FA2-57C4-4B1F-8B95-E3AB7EFB61AA@gmail.com> Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current topic of discussion. Thanks, Josh Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah wrote: > I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Sarah, and all! > Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! > http://www.aawalker.org > Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha is accessible! > I like that better! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas > that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on > the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the > text field? Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the > cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree > with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no > action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people > together that want the same thing, then you might get more > accomplished than if you just went on your own. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's > rather unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, > and there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers > the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college > in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at > that college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Dec 29 22:42:49 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:42:49 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <39C80FA2-57C4-4B1F-8B95-E3AB7EFB61AA@gmail.com> References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com>, <39C80FA2-57C4-4B1F-8B95-E3AB7EFB61AA@gmail.com> Message-ID: I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board on the ZoneBBS. I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the difficulties that we face as students. Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this rant thread. As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I welcome this on my thread. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current topic of discussion. Thanks, Josh Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah wrote: > I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Sarah, and all! > Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! > http://www.aawalker.org > Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha is accessible! > I like that better! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas > that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on > the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the > text field? Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the > cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree > with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no > action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people > together that want the same thing, then you might get more > accomplished than if you just went on your own. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's > rather unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, > and there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers > the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college > in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at > that college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 23:18:06 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 18:18:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> <39C80FA2-57C4-4B1F-8B95-E3AB7EFB61AA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <750E795A-C6CD-4614-904A-374BDC83E9C7@gmail.com> Why don't we not name it a so-called Rant thread? That lendse an heir of Unwelcome Feeling to it. And if we want to rant thread, why not go on the zone itself? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board on the ZoneBBS. > I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the difficulties that we face as students. > Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this rant thread. > As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I welcome this on my thread. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! > > Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current topic of discussion. > Thanks, > Josh > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Sarah, and all! >> Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! >> http://www.aawalker.org >> Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha is accessible! >> I like that better! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas >> that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on >> the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the >> text field? Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the >> cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree >> with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no >> action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people >> together that want the same thing, then you might get more >> accomplished than if you just went on your own. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah > wrote: >> >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's >> rather unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, >> and there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers >> the phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college >> in town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at >> that college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 00:31:10 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:31:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! Message-ID: <50df8b55.654f420a.5f87.637d@mx.google.com> because some people like me are banned from the zone and have no access to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board on the ZoneBBS. I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the difficulties that we face as students. Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this rant thread. As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I welcome this on my thread. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current topic of discussion. Thanks, Josh Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah wrote: I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <50df604a.2adb440a.7a46.454c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <81FBB25BD73F4E32A0D3A5C6227EB2F8@OwnerPC> go to the npb website and order online or find the phone number on there and call. the site is www.nbp.org. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone Is there a number for them or something, what's the method of ordering it. I pretty much have the world at my fingertips but I want to know everything there is to knowledge about VoiceOver and apps. Sarah and Wizard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Koby Cox" References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I understand your frustration, but please don't use profanity. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester Ok Thanks. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Dec 30 03:02:00 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:02:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com>, <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E509EB2BC44B64AB0AF3BEE4E69C90@OwnerPC> you may believe it but without a group backing you, you won't get far. Use an advocacy group for people with disabilities if you want to pursue it; a group such as an independent living center nearby, a chapter of nfb if its active, a chapter of ACLU, a legal firm doing cases of this for pro bono work such as the equal Rights center, or a chapter of the American association of people with disabilities. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! I'm the only blind person in my community that knows how to read Braille. The others are older and either don't want to learn, or are in the nursing home, or a combination of both. I still believe that since I'm in this community, and the ADA demands it, they should comply with the ADA! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people together that want the same thing, then you might get more accomplished than if you just went on your own. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather > unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and > there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that > college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Dec 30 03:04:12 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:04:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <50df8b55.654f420a.5f87.637d@mx.google.com> References: <50df8b55.654f420a.5f87.637d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: hi, what is the zone and its purpose? -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility,was: Re: My official rant thread! because some people like me are banned from the zone and have no access to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board on the ZoneBBS. I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the difficulties that we face as students. Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this rant thread. As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I welcome this on my thread. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current topic of discussion. Thanks, Josh Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah wrote: I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <50df8b55.654f420a.5f87.637d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ashley, It's kind of a social network specifically for blind people. They have games, discussion boards, audio profiles, private messages and the like. I got rather bored of it myself but I guess it's not a terrible place. To each their own, right? On 12/29/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > hi, what is the zone and its purpose? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility,was: Re: My official > > rant thread! > > because some people like me are banned from the zone and have no > access to it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 18:18:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility,was: Re: > My official rant thread! > > Why don't we not name it a so-called Rant thread? That lendse an > heir of Unwelcome Feeling to it. And if we want to rant thread, > why not go on the zone itself? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:42 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board > on the ZoneBBS. > I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the > difficulties that we face as students. > Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this > rant thread. > As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I > welcome this on my thread. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh > Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: > My official rant thread! > > Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current > topic of discussion. > Thanks, > Josh > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah > wrote: > > I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For > example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Sarah, and all! > Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! > http://www.aawalker.org > Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his > captcha is accessible! > I like that better! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah > [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas > that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on > the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in > the > text field? Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the > cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree > with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no > action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people > together that want the same thing, then you might get more > accomplished than if you just went on your own. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's > rather unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, > and there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers > the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college > in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at > that college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sun Dec 30 03:22:42 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 03:22:42 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <48E509EB2BC44B64AB0AF3BEE4E69C90@OwnerPC> References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com>, <14C6B6AB-C88D-4EA3-8D68-2E811B58EF6C@gmail.com> , <48E509EB2BC44B64AB0AF3BEE4E69C90@OwnerPC> Message-ID: We have a lack of leadership in our state NFB chapter. I'm going to have to take it up with national. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! you may believe it but without a group backing you, you won't get far. Use an advocacy group for people with disabilities if you want to pursue it; a group such as an independent living center nearby, a chapter of nfb if its active, a chapter of ACLU, a legal firm doing cases of this for pro bono work such as the equal Rights center, or a chapter of the American association of people with disabilities. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! I'm the only blind person in my community that knows how to read Braille. The others are older and either don't want to learn, or are in the nursing home, or a combination of both. I still believe that since I'm in this community, and the ADA demands it, they should comply with the ADA! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people together that want the same thing, then you might get more accomplished than if you just went on your own. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather > unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and > there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that > college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From carlymih at comcast.net Sun Dec 30 03:36:35 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 19:36:35 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df63ea.4a50420a.6396.70aa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121229193605.01d29668@comcast.net> Hey, Joshua, Just go into the bank! At 06:58 PM 12/29/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >I understand your frustration, but please don't use profanity. > >-----Original Message----- From: Sarah >Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:42 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > >I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > >Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's >rather unfortunate, in my little town! >A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, >and there's no Braille! >How dare they? >Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers >the phone. >I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >Does anyone else have that problem on here? >ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college >in town. >Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at >that college, that might need to use that ATM? >Thanks, Joshua > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 30 05:03:46 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 23:03:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone In-Reply-To: <50df5e16.a4f2440a.7ec1.501c@mx.google.com> References: <50df5e16.a4f2440a.7ec1.501c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, go to www.nbp.org and you can order from there. Dave At 03:18 PM 12/29/2012, you wrote: >How do I get this iOs book? Can I order it? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:32:55 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iPhone > >My best advice is to buy the iOS book from National Braille Press -- >and work your way through it. It will tech you most things. > > >Dave > >At 04:40 PM 12/28/2012, you wrote: >Hello everyone, >I know there have been a lot questions about the iPhone lately; here >are some more. I have been considering getting an iPhone but I really >have no idea how to use it. >I know that an iPhone will work with a braille display via buetooth >but I don't know exactly how to set this up. Also, I know you can use >a keyboard or braille overlay; are there any significant benefits or >disadvantages to either? Are there any aps that would be especially >useful for me to download? >Any help would be appreciated, >Danielle From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 07:24:57 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 02:24:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df8b55.654f420a.5f87.637d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, The zone is a good place, unless you get on the wrong side of certain people on the message boards who think it's their duty to tear down those who have different opinions than they do. On 12/29/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Ashley, > It's kind of a social network specifically for blind people. They > have games, discussion boards, audio profiles, private messages and > the like. I got rather bored of it myself but I guess it's not a > terrible place. To each their own, right? > > On 12/29/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> hi, what is the zone and its purpose? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility,was: Re: My >> official >> >> rant thread! >> >> because some people like me are banned from the zone and have no >> access to it. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 18:18:06 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility,was: Re: >> My official rant thread! >> >> Why don't we not name it a so-called Rant thread? That lendse an >> heir of Unwelcome Feeling to it. And if we want to rant thread, >> why not go on the zone itself? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:42 PM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >> I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board >> on the ZoneBBS. >> I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the >> difficulties that we face as students. >> Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this >> rant thread. >> As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I >> welcome this on my thread. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh >> Gregory [joshkart12 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: >> My official rant thread! >> >> Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current >> topic of discussion. >> Thanks, >> Josh >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah >> wrote: >> >> I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For >> example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Sarah, and all! >> Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! >> http://www.aawalker.org >> Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his >> captcha is accessible! >> I like that better! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas >> that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on >> the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in >> the >> text field? Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the >> cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree >> with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no >> action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people >> together that want the same thing, then you might get more >> accomplished than if you just went on your own. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah > wrote: >> >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's >> rather unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, >> and there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers >> the phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college >> in town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at >> that college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 07:26:03 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 02:26:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> <39C80FA2-57C4-4B1F-8B95-E3AB7EFB61AA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Which topic on the rant board were you referring to? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply post there, since that site is more of a free-for-all and doesn't need to be structured like this list is? On 12/29/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > I actually meant for this to be like the particular rant board on the > ZoneBBS. > I just wanted this thread to be about us talking about the difficulties that > we face as students. > Inaccessible ATM's, Captchas, etc fit into the catigory of this rant > thread. > As long as it's blindness related, and student related, I welcome this on my > thread. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Josh Gregory > [joshkart12 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Captchas and their accessibility, was: Re: My > official rant thread! > > Hi all, the subject has been changed to reflect the current topic of > discussion. > Thanks, > Josh > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sarah wrote: > >> I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For example, >> it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Sarah, and all! >> Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! >> http://www.aawalker.org >> Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha is >> accessible! >> I like that better! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas >> that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on >> the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the >> text field? Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the >> cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree >> with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no >> action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people >> together that want the same thing, then you might get more >> accomplished than if you just went on your own. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah > wrote: >> >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's >> rather unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, >> and there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers >> the phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college >> in town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at >> that college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 23:14:55 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 18:14:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. Message-ID: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> Hi all, Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? Thanks LaVonnya NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 23:45:36 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 17:45:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0F1EC587-B8D9-42FE-B3CF-4FAB78F56600@gmail.com> Oh my… As far as features goes, yeah pages is pretty similar. As for your keyboard question…I hope you're not meaning to ask if the commands for using the ipad are the same as windows, because they're soooo not. lol. Though, if you've used voiceover before, it should be no problem for you. If you've never used voiceover with a keyboard, it will take some getting used to, and voiceover has a tutorial that can help you out. But if you're asking if the arrow keys themselves are the same as windows, the answer is yes. wouldn't imagine why they wouldn't be. Hope this helps. :) On Dec 30, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:19:11 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:19:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good afternoon, Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. Have a good eveningg. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:20:36 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:20:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <0F1EC587-B8D9-42FE-B3CF-4FAB78F56600@gmail.com> References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> <0F1EC587-B8D9-42FE-B3CF-4FAB78F56600@gmail.com> Message-ID: i meant the keyboard commands for voice over. where is the totorial. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 18:45, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Oh my… > > As far as features goes, yeah pages is pretty similar. As for your keyboard question…I hope you're not meaning to ask if the commands for using the ipad are the same as windows, because they're soooo not. lol. Though, if you've used voiceover before, it should be no problem for you. If you've never used voiceover with a keyboard, it will take some getting used to, and voiceover has a tutorial that can help you out. > > But if you're asking if the arrow keys themselves are the same as windows, the answer is yes. wouldn't imagine why they wouldn't be. > > Hope this helps. :) > On Dec 30, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >> Thanks >> LaVonnya >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:34:51 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:34:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com> where are the navagation fntions. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >> Thanks >> LaVonnya >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:37:39 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:37:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good, because, I saw one on my school's server that said: "What color is a stop sign?" If you are someone who does not know the answer, it will let you get it wrong as many times, untill you answer it correctly. I also saw one that said: "Row Row your gently down the stream". Obviously, the correct answer is boat, and that was the solution. Sent from my iPad On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Joshua Lester" wrote: > That's awesome! > Also, Papa John's Website has an interesting captcha. > It will ask this question. > "Today is Saturday, what is tomorrow?" > Then, you'll put Sunday in the box, and enter, and it will accept your form. > This is a great topic of discussion on this list as well, because I've seen inaccessible captchas on college Websites, and they could benefit from using a solution like the ones we've been talking about. > This is awesome! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For > example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Sarah, and all! > Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! > http://www.aawalker.org > Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his > captcha is accessible! > I like that better! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah > [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas > that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on > the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the > text field? Sarah and Wizard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the > cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree > with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no > action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people > together that want the same thing, then you might get more > accomplished than if you just went on your own. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > > I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 > Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's > rather unfortunate, in my little town! > A month ago, they just installed an ATM. > The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, > and there's no Braille! > How dare they? > Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? > Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers > the phone. > I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! > Does anyone else have that problem on here? > ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college > in town. > Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at > that college, that might need to use that ATM? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:39:42 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:39:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com> References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> <77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com> Message-ID: The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > where are the navagation fntions. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > >> Good afternoon, >> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. >> Have a good eveningg. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >>> Thanks >>> LaVonnya >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:41:54 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:41:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4683A9A1-B88E-4255-B1CD-965C506A78EB@gmail.com> who is using an iPad NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:37, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good, because, I saw one on my school's server that said: > "What color is a stop sign?" > If you are someone who does not know the answer, it will let you get it wrong as many times, untill you answer it correctly. I also saw one that said: > "Row Row your gently down the stream". Obviously, the correct answer is boat, and that was the solution. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Joshua Lester" wrote: > >> That's awesome! >> Also, Papa John's Website has an interesting captcha. >> It will ask this question. >> "Today is Saturday, what is tomorrow?" >> Then, you'll put Sunday in the box, and enter, and it will accept your form. >> This is a great topic of discussion on this list as well, because I've seen inaccessible captchas on college Websites, and they could benefit from using a solution like the ones we've been talking about. >> This is awesome! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:26 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For >> example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:21:05 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Sarah, and all! >> Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! >> http://www.aawalker.org >> Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his >> captcha is accessible! >> I like that better! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas >> that's seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on >> the internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the >> text field? Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:53:40 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the >> cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree >> with you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no >> action. You need to be proactive and get a group of people >> together that want the same thing, then you might get more >> accomplished than if you just went on your own. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah > wrote: >> >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's >> rather unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, >> and there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers >> the phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college >> in town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at >> that college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From mistydbradley at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 01:27:15 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <03135A2A7EE8435BB02EEAAAEA773D00@acerd37f251f21> Hi, Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or if it works for both. Thanks, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "wmodnl wmodnl" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in > various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you > would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even > giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. > Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions > are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just >> like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. >> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >> Thanks >> LaVonnya >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 01:36:39 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:36:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> <77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3EB48A32-79EA-4EA1-B333-3B12067EF2DE@gmail.com> thank u. let me try it. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > >> where are the navagation fntions. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >> >>> Good afternoon, >>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. >>> Have a good eveningg. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >>>> Thanks >>>> LaVonnya >>>> >>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 03:40:30 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:40:30 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. Message-ID: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! Best, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> Sophie, Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! Best, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <29988FFA-CFA4-46F1-A4A8-3738267E2588@gmail.com> they all seem to work the same way. i did notice that. i have played with all 3. i thought of getting an itouch, and will have everything i want. i make calls on my iPad. i could with an iTouch. so i won't need the iPone. i just use text free. i can text for free. and add minutes for calling. the only thing i need, is a video feeture. that way i can use VRS. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 22:40, Sophie Trist wrote: > Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! > Best, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Hi, > Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering > getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word > Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or > if it works for both. > Thanks, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wmodnl wmodnl" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in > various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you > would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even > giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. > Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions > are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just > like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. > Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 04:14:21 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:14:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Mm-friends] Fw: [VICUG-L] [acb-l] FW: Introducing BrailleTouch - an iPhone app for typing inbraille on your touchscreen In-Reply-To: <4861589BF79943B6B56771C728C58E23@ASUSNETBOOK> References: <4861589BF79943B6B56771C728C58E23@ASUSNETBOOK> Message-ID: <001401cde70d$504654b0$f0d2fe10$@gmail.com> FYI: -----Original Message----- From: mm-friends-bounces at acbradio.org [mailto:mm-friends-bounces at acbradio.org] On Behalf Of David Tanner Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:09 PM To: mm-friends at acbradio.org; Earle Harrison Cc: Debbie Bock; Gennie Eachus Subject: [Mm-friends] Fw: [VICUG-L] [acb-l] FW: Introducing BrailleTouch - an iPhone app for typing inbraille on your touchscreen FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter altschul" To: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:06 PM Subject: [VICUG-L] [acb-l] FW: Introducing BrailleTouch - an iPhone app for typing inbraille on your touchscreen > From: viphone at googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone at googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of BrailleTouch > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:32 AM > To: viphone at googlegroups.com > Subject: Introducing BrailleTouch - an iPhone app for typing in > braille on your touchscreen > > Greetings and Happy Holidays! > > My name is Caleb, and I'm one of the developers of a new iPhone app > called BrailleTouch. BrailleTouch allows you to type using braille on > your touchscreen, and is based on the standard six key braille > keyboard. We are excited to announce that BrailleTouch will be on the > App Store by the end of January! We hope that you will like > BrailleTouch and find it useful. I'm happy to answer any questions > you may have, and I've included some more information about the app below. > > With BrailleTouch, you can send text messages, emails, and tweets from > the touchscreen braille keyboard. You can also copy text you type in > braille to the clipboard and paste it into other apps on your iPhone. > There is a free version of BrailleTouch, so you can try it before you > buy it. The free version lets you type in braille and hear the text > you entered. Many braille instructors have told us that they would > like to use BrailleTouch as a teaching tool, which the free version > will support. Additional features are available as In App Purchases. > The Messaging Upgrade allows you to send text messages, emails, and > tweets from the touchscreen braille keyboard. The Clipboard Upgrade > allows you to copy text from the touchscreen braille keyboard and paste it into other apps on your iPhone. > > BrailleTouch is based on research conducted at Georgia Tech in > Atlanta, Georgia, USA, where I am a graduate student. My colleagues > and I tested the software with eleven volunteers who are blind. We > found that people who knew the standard Perkins braille keyboard were > able to master BrailleTouch within an hour of practice and type at an > average of 23 words per minute using Grade 1 braille. We received > such positive feedback that we were inspired to take this research out > of the laboratory and release BrailleTouch to the public. We hope > this software will provide a helpful alternative to the VoiceOver > split tap keyboard, and that it will help improve the mobile computing > experience for people in the blind community who use an iPhone. > > BrailleTouch is fully compatible with VoiceOver. It works on the > iPhone 3GS through the iPhone 5, iPod touch models since the 3rd > generation, and requires iOS 5.0 or a later operating system. > BrailleTouch is only for the iPhone and iPod touch, and is not > supported on the iPad. The first release is based on North American English Grade 1 Uncontracted Braille. > You can choose to hear speech feedback for each character you type, > each word you type, or both. > > More information about BrailleTouch is available on our website: > http://brailletouchapp.com/ > > The website includes a User Guide and Frequently Asked Questions. You > can also sign up for our email list, and we will notify you when we > have an exact release date in January for the app. > > We are also on Twitter: > https://twitter.com/brailletouch > > With the free version of BrailleTouch, you can try out the touchscreen > braille keyboard and hear the text that you typed read back to you. > The Messaging Upgrade allows you to send text messages, emails, and > tweets, and costs US$9.99. The Clipboard Upgrade allows you to copy > text from the braille keyboard to paste into other apps, and costs > US$9.99. You must have the Messaging Upgrade first before you can get the Clipboard Upgrade. > > I am happy to answer any questions you may have. We are very excited > about the upcoming release of BrailleTouch on the App Store. I hope > that you will like BrailleTouch and find it useful. > > Best wishes and happy holidays, > Caleb > The BrailleTouch Team > http://brailletouchapp.com/ > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone at googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to > viphone at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com ooglegroups.com>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > > VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List. > Archived on the World Wide Web at > http://listserv.icors.org/archives/vicug-l.html > Signoff: vicug-l-unsubscribe-request at listserv.icors.org > Subscribe: vicug-l-subscribe-request at listserv.icors.org _______________________________________________ Mm-friends mailing list Mm-friends at acbradio.org http://acbradio.org/mailman/listinfo/mm-friends From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 04:20:37 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:20:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <4683A9A1-B88E-4255-B1CD-965C506A78EB@gmail.com> References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> <4683A9A1-B88E-4255-B1CD-965C506A78EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01cde70e$30629d60$9127d820$@gmail.com> LaVonya, I believe that is William ODonnell. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! who is using an iPad NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:37, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good, because, I saw one on my school's server that said: > "What color is a stop sign?" > If you are someone who does not know the answer, it will let you get it wrong as many times, untill you answer it correctly. I also saw one that said: > "Row Row your gently down the stream". Obviously, the correct answer is boat, and that was the solution. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Joshua Lester" wrote: > >> That's awesome! >> Also, Papa John's Website has an interesting captcha. >> It will ask this question. >> "Today is Saturday, what is tomorrow?" >> Then, you'll put Sunday in the box, and enter, and it will accept your form. >> This is a great topic of discussion on this list as well, because I've seen inaccessible captchas on college Websites, and they could benefit from using a solution like the ones we've been talking about. >> This is awesome! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:26 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For >> example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Sarah, and all! >> Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! >> http://www.aawalker.org >> Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha >> is accessible! >> I like that better! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas that's >> seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on the >> internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the text >> field? Sarah and Wizard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the >> cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with >> you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no action. You >> need to be proactive and get a group of people together that want the >> same thing, then you might get more accomplished than if you just >> went on your own. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah > wrote: >> >> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >> >> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather >> unfortunate, in my little town! >> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and >> there's no Braille! >> How dare they? >> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the >> phone. >> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in >> town. >> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that >> college, that might need to use that ATM? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail. >> com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From mistydbradley at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 04:49:03 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:49:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> <29988FFA-CFA4-46F1-A4A8-3738267E2588@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93822CB7027D43AF8087EDE59C10DAFB@acerd37f251f21> Hi, So the Text Free app can also make calls? Does either the IPad or IPod Touch have a camera for OCR recognition, or is that only on the IPhone? I guess you could not make calls though on an IPad unless you have an Internet connection nearby? I am just wondering, because I like to make calls and check email while on the bus or out where there is no WiFi, and I would also like to use it for working on school work or taking notes in class. Thanks, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > they all seem to work the same way. i did notice that. i have played with > all 3. i thought of getting an itouch, and will have everything i want. i > make calls on my iPad. i could with an iTouch. so i won't need the iPone. > i just use text free. i can text for free. and add minutes for calling. > the only thing i need, is a video feeture. that way i can use VRS. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 22:40, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. >> An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. >> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! >> Best, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Misty Dawn Bradley > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Hi, >> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering >> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word >> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad >> or >> if it works for both. >> Thanks, >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> >> Good afternoon, >> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in >> various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you >> would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even >> giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. >> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions >> are turned off. >> Have a good eveningg. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just >> like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. >> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >> Thanks >> LaVonnya >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 13:55:25 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 08:55:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! In-Reply-To: <001b01cde70e$30629d60$9127d820$@gmail.com> References: <50df6e36.8673440a.7ec6.2fb0@mx.google.com> <4683A9A1-B88E-4255-B1CD-965C506A78EB@gmail.com> <001b01cde70e$30629d60$9127d820$@gmail.com> Message-ID: ok cool. willam do u have the first iPad, or one of the others NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 23:20, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > LaVonya, > > I believe that is William ODonnell. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! > > who is using an iPad > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:37, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > >> Good, because, I saw one on my school's server that said: >> "What color is a stop sign?" >> If you are someone who does not know the answer, it will let you get it > wrong as many times, untill you answer it correctly. I also saw one that > said: >> "Row Row your gently down the stream". Obviously, the correct answer is > boat, and that was the solution. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Joshua Lester" > wrote: >> >>> That's awesome! >>> Also, Papa John's Website has an interesting captcha. >>> It will ask this question. >>> "Today is Saturday, what is tomorrow?" >>> Then, you'll put Sunday in the box, and enter, and it will accept your > form. >>> This is a great topic of discussion on this list as well, because I've > seen inaccessible captchas on college Websites, and they could benefit from > using a solution like the ones we've been talking about. >>> This is awesome! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >>> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:26 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >>> >>> I like the Captcha on Afb it just asks you to enter a word. For >>> example, it will say, "enter the word water in the box below. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >>> >>> Sarah, and all! >>> Please look at the contact form on my friend's Website! >>> http://www.aawalker.org >>> Although the fields aren't labeled, the math problem for his captcha >>> is accessible! >>> I like that better! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah >>> [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >>> >>> H's my biofst rant, I hate when website have to have Captchas that's >>> seems to be one of the biggest problems for the blind on the >>> internet. Why can't they just ask you to enter a word in the text >>> field? Sarah and Wizard >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Josh Gregory >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >>> >>> Joshua and Sarah, you must consider that this is a world of the >>> cited, and that not everything is blind Friendly. I do agree with >>> you, however, if less people demanded, there will be no action. You >>> need to be proactive and get a group of people together that want the >>> same thing, then you might get more accomplished than if you just >>> went on your own. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Sarah >> wrote: >>> >>> I hase inaccessible shit like that. It's ridimulous. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> 2012 21:34:27 +0000 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] My official rant thread! >>> >>> Today, I'm going to start a discussion about something that's rather >>> unfortunate, in my little town! >>> A month ago, they just installed an ATM. >>> The problem is, that the ATM has no speech, it's a touch screen, and >>> there's no Braille! >>> How dare they? >>> Don't they know that it's against the ADA to do such a thing? >>> Every time I try to contact the person in charge, noone answers the >>> phone. >>> I don't use it yet, but when I get out on my own, I may need to! >>> Does anyone else have that problem on here? >>> ATMs are important, especially since we have a community college in >>> town. >>> Who's to say, that someday there'll be another blind student at that >>> college, that might need to use that ATM? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>> 0pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail. >>> com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 14:01:21 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 09:01:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <93822CB7027D43AF8087EDE59C10DAFB@acerd37f251f21> References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> <29988FFA-CFA4-46F1-A4A8-3738267E2588@gmail.com> <93822CB7027D43AF8087EDE59C10DAFB@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <1E0379EA-46F3-4738-9921-1B433507ED06@gmail.com> it works on 3 g and y fi. and the first iPad is the only 1 that doesn't have a cam on it. that is y i am going to upgrade. so i can get those APPS that u r talking about. if you could sink your pad with your phone, or get clear, or something like that, that might help. also, for those who want to no, i went on you tube, and typed in the words pages for the iPad, and they tell u what it does. i did this last night. i couldn't sleep. i found out alot. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 23:49, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi, > So the Text Free app can also make calls? Does either the IPad or IPod Touch have a camera for OCR recognition, or is that only on the IPhone? I guess you could not make calls though on an IPad unless you have an Internet connection nearby? I am just wondering, because I like to make calls and check email while on the bus or out where there is no WiFi, and I would also like to use it for working on school work or taking notes in class. > Thanks, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:14 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > >> they all seem to work the same way. i did notice that. i have played with all 3. i thought of getting an itouch, and will have everything i want. i make calls on my iPad. i could with an iTouch. so i won't need the iPone. i just use text free. i can text for free. and add minutes for calling. the only thing i need, is a video feeture. that way i can use VRS. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 22:40, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! >>> Best, >>> Sophie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Misty Dawn Bradley >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >>> >>> Hi, >>> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering >>> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word >>> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or >>> if it works for both. >>> Thanks, >>> Misty >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >>> >>> >>> Good afternoon, >>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in >>> various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you >>> would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even >>> giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. >>> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions >>> are turned off. >>> Have a good eveningg. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just >>> like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. >>> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >>> Thanks >>> LaVonnya >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm >>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 17:38:35 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <3EB48A32-79EA-4EA1-B333-3B12067EF2DE@gmail.com> References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> <77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com> <3EB48A32-79EA-4EA1-B333-3B12067EF2DE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good morning, Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > thank u. let me try it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > >> The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: >> >>> where are the navagation fntions. >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> >>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >>> >>>> Good afternoon, >>>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. >>>> Have a good eveningg. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> LaVonnya >>>>> >>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 17:40:14 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:40:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, it does. Just hook-up a blue-tooth keyboard, and you have all functions available to you. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 10:42 PM, "Sophie Trist" wrote: > Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! > Best, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Hi, > Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering > getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word > Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or > if it works for both. > Thanks, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wmodnl wmodnl" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in > various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you > would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even > giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. > Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions > are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just > like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. > Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 17:52:10 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 09:52:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi Message-ID: <50e1d0d5.e756420a.1d3f.2eda@mx.google.com> Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. ----- Original Message ----- From: wmodnl wmodnl wrote: thank u. let me try it. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: where are the navagation fntions. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: Good afternoon, Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. Have a good eveningg. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: Hi all, Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? Thanks LaVonnya NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 18:26:49 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:26:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi In-Reply-To: <50e1d0d5.e756420a.1d3f.2eda@mx.google.com> References: <50e1d0d5.e756420a.1d3f.2eda@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-2642054563287386660@unknownmsgid> No, you don't need Wi-Fi to use the money reader app. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Sarah wrote: > Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: wmodnl wmodnl To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Good morning, > Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > thank u. let me try it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > where are the navagation fntions. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 18:49:17 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 10:49:17 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi Message-ID: <50e1de37.a484440a.49d1.0f11@mx.google.com> Ok that's good. What's it called? ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. ----- Original Message ----- From: wmodnl wmodnl wrote: thank u. let me try it. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: where are the navagation fntions. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: Good afternoon, Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. Have a good eveningg. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: Hi all, Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? Thanks LaVonnya NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 18:55:10 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:55:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi In-Reply-To: <50e1de37.a484440a.49d1.0f11@mx.google.com> References: <50e1de37.a484440a.49d1.0f11@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4529A9E4-A3B9-414C-8098-7821A10AACC4@gmail.com> It's called looktell money reader. The only issue now, is that I think it cost money. I think it's like a dollar or something. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Sarah wrote: > Ok that's good. What's it called? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:26:49 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi > > No, you don't need Wi-Fi to use the money reader app. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: wmodnl wmodnl To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Good morning, > Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > thank u. let me try it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > where are the navagation fntions. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 19:00:29 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:00:29 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi Message-ID: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> Dang it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Ok that's good. What's it called? ----- Original Message ----- From: christopher nusbaum wrote: Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. ----- Original Message ----- From: wmodnl wmodnl wrote: thank u. let me try it. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: where are the navagation fntions. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: Good afternoon, Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. Have a good eveningg. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: Hi all, Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? Thanks LaVonnya NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From trising at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 31 19:51:35 2012 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:51:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. Sincerely, Terri Wilcox From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 20:19:04 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:19:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1FA8570B-192E-4354-A0E2-8146CD31FCB9@gmail.com> hello there terry, For a money identifier, please look up look tell. For a gps, i highly recommend you use blind square. as far as a color identifier, i unfortunately haven't used any yet to recommend you one, but i hope you like the other two. happy new year, mauricio On Dec 31, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "trising" wrote: > Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently > acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently > acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my > husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will > you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color > identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to > the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > > Sincerely, > Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From zdreicer at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 20:20:23 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:20:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6B4B6927-068C-4CC8-A860-70E4F95BFDED@gmail.com> MoneyReader and I would subscribe to accessible-iOS on google groups. You can contact me at this address if you have further questions. Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:51 PM, "trising" wrote: > Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently > acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently > acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my > husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will > you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color > identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to > the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > > Sincerely, > Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 20:39:08 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:39:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: <6B4B6927-068C-4CC8-A860-70E4F95BFDED@gmail.com> References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <6B4B6927-068C-4CC8-A860-70E4F95BFDED@gmail.com> Message-ID: <747A5D4C-F84D-4EA9-A87E-3B1F3AEEAA1F@gmail.com> looktell moneyr eader is the same as look tell, terry, just for your reference and to make sure you get the right one. thanks mauricio On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:20 PM, "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" wrote: > MoneyReader and I would subscribe to accessible-iOS on google groups. You can contact me at this address if you have further questions. > > Sent from my iPhone using VoiceOver > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:51 PM, "trising" wrote: > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently >> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my >> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will >> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to >> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >> >> Sincerely, >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:07:20 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: <1FA8570B-192E-4354-A0E2-8146CD31FCB9@gmail.com> References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <1FA8570B-192E-4354-A0E2-8146CD31FCB9@gmail.com> Message-ID: There is 1 called color i d. my friend just told me about it. she has an iPhone. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 15:19, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > hello there terry, > > For a money identifier, please look up look tell. > For a gps, i highly recommend you use blind square. > as far as a color identifier, i unfortunately haven't used any yet to recommend you one, but i hope you like the other two. > > happy new year, > > mauricio > On Dec 31, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "trising" wrote: > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently >> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my >> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will >> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to >> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >> >> Sincerely, >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:09:52 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:09:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <1FA8570B-192E-4354-A0E2-8146CD31FCB9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Another good app is Vizwiz Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > There is 1 called color i d. my friend just told me about it. she has an iPhone. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 15:19, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > >> hello there terry, >> >> For a money identifier, please look up look tell. >> For a gps, i highly recommend you use blind square. >> as far as a color identifier, i unfortunately haven't used any yet to recommend you one, but i hope you like the other two. >> >> happy new year, >> >> mauricio >> On Dec 31, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "trising" wrote: >> >>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently >>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my >>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will >>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to >>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:05:42 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:05:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi In-Reply-To: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <333CF708-361D-4C27-99EE-87C13477FE5A@gmail.com> There is another app called eyeBill Made by the government. It is free. --Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Sarah wrote: > Dang it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:55:10 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi > > It's called looktell money reader. The only issue now, is that I think it cost money. I think it's like a dollar or something. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Ok that's good. What's it called? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:26:49 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi > > No, you don't need Wi-Fi to use the money reader app. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: wmodnl wmodnl To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Good morning, > Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > thank u. let me try it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > where are the navagation fntions. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:10:51 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:10:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi In-Reply-To: <50e1de37.a484440a.49d1.0f11@mx.google.com> References: <50e1de37.a484440a.49d1.0f11@mx.google.com> Message-ID: looktel is 10 dollars. my friend just told me. we r on the phone as i check my email. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 13:49, Sarah wrote: > Ok that's good. What's it called? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: christopher nusbaum To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:26:49 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi > > No, you don't need Wi-Fi to use the money reader app. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Sarah wrote: > > Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: wmodnl wmodnl To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Good morning, > Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > thank u. let me try it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > where are the navagation fntions. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:12:47 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Apps and not having Wifi In-Reply-To: <50e1d0d5.e756420a.1d3f.2eda@mx.google.com> References: <50e1d0d5.e756420a.1d3f.2eda@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <647AAD6F-261F-4C07-AF67-4F7996D8D8D9@gmail.com> Hey sarah This is LaVonnya. u do not need wi fi to deal with the money APP. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:52, Sarah wrote: > Hey Lavonya, do you need WiFi to get the money reader app? I need WiFi to fet Apps that are like 50 mb. But I don't have it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: wmodnl wmodnl To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:38:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Good morning, > Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > thank u. let me try it. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > where are the navagation fntions. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:18:39 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:18:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: References: <45B2AD51-4A47-42CF-A747-7D08FF3C278D@gmail.com> <77ACE00D-0284-43A5-9EBE-379FD10EC874@gmail.com> <3EB48A32-79EA-4EA1-B333-3B12067EF2DE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2F19DA59-96CE-4440-ADAD-BBF31498A8D3@gmail.com> hi william this is lavonnya. do u want some cool apps for yohur pad. i can send them to u NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:38, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning, > Let me start buy unraveling a mystery. Yes, it is William O'Donnell. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:37 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: > >> thank u. let me try it. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:39, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >> >>> The navigation functions are known as the "quick nav" functions. Press the write and left arrow together. from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: >>> >>>> where are the navagation fntions. >>>> >>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>>> >>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 19:19, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good afternoon, >>>>> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions are turned off. >>>>> Have a good eveningg. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> LaVonnya >>>>>> >>>>>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:28:36 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:28:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Terri, Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to contact me. Happy new year! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: > Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently > acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently > acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my > husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will > you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color > identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to > the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > > Sincerely, > Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Dec 31 21:30:56 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:30:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> <000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod touch, iPhone and Ipad. Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its compatibility with a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing service to access it on the internet? This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, will voice over announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the screen itself or other thing like external keyboard? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. Sophie, Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! Best, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Misty Dawn Bradley References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: What is BlindSquare? I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure how accessible it is. Arielle On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: > Terri, > > Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. > For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or > Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of > interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any > questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to > contact me. Happy new year! > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >> recently >> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but >> my >> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >> will >> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >> to >> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >> >> Sincerely, >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:34:34 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:34:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone and helps you get around the touch screen. Arielle On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > What is BlindSquare? > I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your > location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it > doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure > how accessible it is. > Arielle > > On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> Terri, >> >> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >> contact me. Happy new year! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >> >>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>> recently >>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>> but >>> my >>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>> will >>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >>> to >>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:36:11 2012 From: mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com (Mauricio Almeida) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:36:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: blindsquare is another gps app based on foursquare locations, which means it will work globally. the developer is very accessible to the blind, and reads the mac visionaries list frequently answering questions. i heard people preferred this application over others, which is why i ended up using it myself. hope this helps mauricio On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > What is BlindSquare? > I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your > location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it > doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure > how accessible it is. > Arielle > > On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> Terri, >> >> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >> contact me. Happy new year! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >> >>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>> recently >>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but >>> my >>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>> will >>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >>> to >>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 31 21:50:11 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:50:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Blindsquare tells you what points of interest are around you, and where you are, street and intersection. It does not give turn by turn directions either, but I have found it to be useful, and in most instances suits me well over a full-fledged GPS app. It is quite accessible, and I am told the developer is quite responsive. Dave At 03:33 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >What is BlindSquare? >I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >how accessible it is. >Arielle > >On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > Terri, > > > > Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. > > For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or > > Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of > > interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any > > questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to > > contact me. Happy new year! > > > > Chris Nusbaum > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: > > > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently > >> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also > >> recently > >> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but > >> my > >> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, > >> will > >> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color > >> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new > >> to > >> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> Terri Wilcox From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:54:28 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:54:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <010f01cde7a1$68eac660$3ac05320$@gmail.com> Dave, Isn't that what Sendero LookAround does? I have never heard of Blind Square, and am interested as to how it compares with Sendero and the full GPS app. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone Blindsquare tells you what points of interest are around you, and where you are, street and intersection. It does not give turn by turn directions either, but I have found it to be useful, and in most instances suits me well over a full-fledged GPS app. It is quite accessible, and I am told the developer is quite responsive. Dave At 03:33 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >What is BlindSquare? >I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >how accessible it is. >Arielle > >On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > Terri, > > > > Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. > > For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon > > or Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points > > of interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have > > any questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel > > free to contact me. Happy new year! > > > > Chris Nusbaum > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: > > > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We > >> recently acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. > >> We also recently acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling > >> with the touch screen, but my husband is always a wiz with > >> technology. Since this is very new to us, will you all recommend > >> some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color identifier, > >> and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to the > >> I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> Terri Wilcox _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:05:36 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:05:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <53C0B08D-635C-4228-96EB-AF51C6699761@gmail.com> is there an APP that will give turn by turn directions, i have 2 blind autistic friends that would need that. is there a vissual 1 that talks and is large faunt NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:50, David Andrews wrote: > Blindsquare tells you what points of interest are around you, and where you are, street and intersection. It does not give turn by turn directions either, but I have found it to be useful, and in most instances suits me well over a full-fledged GPS app. It is quite accessible, and I am told the developer is quite responsive. > > Dave > > At 03:33 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >> What is BlindSquare? >> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >> how accessible it is. >> Arielle >> >> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> > Terri, >> > >> > Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >> > For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >> > Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >> > interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >> > questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >> > contact me. Happy new year! >> > >> > Chris Nusbaum >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >> > >> >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >> >> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >> >> recently >> >> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but >> >> my >> >> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >> >> will >> >> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >> >> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >> >> to >> >> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:08:04 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:08:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for my 2 blind friends. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone > and helps you get around the touch screen. > Arielle > > On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> What is BlindSquare? >> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >> how accessible it is. >> Arielle >> >> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>> Terri, >>> >>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>> contact me. Happy new year! >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>> recently >>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>> but >>>> my >>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>> will >>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >>>> to >>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:10:48 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:10:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> <000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi ashley you should be able to. i saw it on you tube. if it is ok, i can send u the link for youtube. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:30, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod touch, iPhone and Ipad. > Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its compatibility with a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing service to access it on the internet? > This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, will voice over > announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the screen itself or other thing like external keyboard? > > Thanks. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Sophie, > > Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM > To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An > iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone > please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! > Best, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Hi, > Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering > getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word > Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or > if it works for both. > Thanks, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wmodnl wmodnl" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in > various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you > would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even > giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. > Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions > are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" > wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like > word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. > Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:17:05 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: RefreshaBraille 18 is an 18-cell Braille display with Braille keyboard. It fits in the palm of your hand and mine cost about $2800 when I bought it in 2011. It provides Braille input and output to Smart phones, PDA's and computers via either USB or bluetooth connection. Arielle On 12/31/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for > my 2 blind friends. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone >> and helps you get around the touch screen. >> Arielle >> >> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> What is BlindSquare? >>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >>> how accessible it is. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>>> Terri, >>>> >>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>>> contact me. Happy new year! >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>>> recently >>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>>> but >>>>> my >>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>>> will >>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a >>>>> color >>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are >>>>> new >>>>> to >>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 31 22:50:32 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:50:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: <010f01cde7a1$68eac660$3ac05320$@gmail.com> References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> <010f01cde7a1$68eac660$3ac05320$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, it is similar to Sendero Look Around, but better. Sendero only shows you one category of points of interest at a time, and if you want to see a different category you have to change your settings, a pain when on the move. Also, BlindSquare is "self voicing." This means that it will read to you, and update itself and read you changes automatically. They self voice, because apparently they can't get voiceover to do this. With Sendero, you have to get it to read to you each time. Dave At 03:54 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >Dave, > > Isn't that what Sendero LookAround does? I have never heard of Blind >Square, and am interested as to how it compares with Sendero and the full >GPS app. > >Chris > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews >Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:50 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone > >Blindsquare tells you what points of interest are around you, and where you >are, street and intersection. It does not give turn by turn directions >either, but I have found it to be useful, and in most instances suits me >well over a full-fledged GPS app. It is quite accessible, and I am told the >developer is quite responsive. > >Dave > >At 03:33 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: > >What is BlindSquare? > >I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your > >location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it > >doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure > >how accessible it is. > >Arielle > > > >On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: > > > Terri, > > > > > > Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. > > > For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon > > > or Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points > > > of interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have > > > any questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel > > > free to contact me. Happy new year! > > > > > > Chris Nusbaum > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: > > > > > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We > > >> recently acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. > > >> We also recently acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling > > >> with the touch screen, but my husband is always a wiz with > > >> technology. Since this is very new to us, will you all recommend > > >> some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color identifier, > > >> and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to the > > >> I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > > >> > > >> Sincerely, > > >> Terri Wilcox From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:51:31 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:51:31 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone Message-ID: <50e21732.e64dec0a.0965.7d27@mx.google.com> I use a color identifier app called Aid Colors. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mauricio Almeida ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. Sincerely, Terri Wilcox _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm eida%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 31 22:52:30 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:52:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I think the Refresh-a-Braille costs about $1895 -- but could be wrong. Dave At 04:17 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >RefreshaBraille 18 is an 18-cell Braille display with Braille >keyboard. It fits in the palm of your hand and mine cost about $2800 >when I bought it in 2011. It provides Braille input and output to >Smart phones, PDA's and computers via either USB or bluetooth >connection. >Arielle > >On 12/31/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > > is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for > > my 2 blind friends. > > > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > >> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone > >> and helps you get around the touch screen. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>> What is BlindSquare? > >>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your > >>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it > >>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure > >>> how accessible it is. > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: > >>>> Terri, > >>>> > >>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. > >>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or > >>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of > >>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any > >>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to > >>>> contact me. Happy new year! > >>>> > >>>> Chris Nusbaum > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently > >>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also > >>>>> recently > >>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, > >>>>> but > >>>>> my > >>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, > >>>>> will > >>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a > >>>>> color > >>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are > >>>>> new > >>>>> to > >>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>> Terri Wilcox From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:54:23 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:54:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <62A4F6D7-F294-4F53-81BD-234BEACB4967@gmail.com> thank u arielle. i will tell her. the price is a bit high, but she will b glad to no that. she and my other friend have iPhones. 1 is good with the touch screen, and they other 1, not so much. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 17:17, Arielle Silverman wrote: > RefreshaBraille 18 is an 18-cell Braille display with Braille > keyboard. It fits in the palm of your hand and mine cost about $2800 > when I bought it in 2011. It provides Braille input and output to > Smart phones, PDA's and computers via either USB or bluetooth > connection. > Arielle > > On 12/31/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for >> my 2 blind friends. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone >>> and helps you get around the touch screen. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> What is BlindSquare? >>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >>>> how accessible it is. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>>>> Terri, >>>>> >>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>>>> contact me. Happy new year! >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>>>> recently >>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>>>> but >>>>>> my >>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>>>> will >>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a >>>>>> color >>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are >>>>>> new >>>>>> to >>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 22:59:30 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> <010f01cde7a1$68eac660$3ac05320$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <75DD6F42-4F53-4181-A65B-327729CCE6CF@gmail.com> i wonder y sendaro was configured that way. that sounds like it may be a little unsafe. and if u r useing a cane, rather than a dog, wouldn't hands free, or something close to, be a better option. maybe it is just me. than again, would it work with seery. if so, then i could see how it could be safe. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 17:50, David Andrews wrote: > Yes, it is similar to Sendero Look Around, but better. Sendero only shows you one category of points of interest at a time, and if you want to see a different category you have to change your settings, a pain when on the move. > > Also, BlindSquare is "self voicing." This means that it will read to you, and update itself and read you changes automatically. They self voice, because apparently they can't get voiceover to do this. With Sendero, you have to get it to read to you each time. > > Dave > > At 03:54 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >> Dave, >> >> Isn't that what Sendero LookAround does? I have never heard of Blind >> Square, and am interested as to how it compares with Sendero and the full >> GPS app. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews >> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 4:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone >> >> Blindsquare tells you what points of interest are around you, and where you >> are, street and intersection. It does not give turn by turn directions >> either, but I have found it to be useful, and in most instances suits me >> well over a full-fledged GPS app. It is quite accessible, and I am told the >> developer is quite responsive. >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:33 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >> >What is BlindSquare? >> >I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >> >location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >> >doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >> >how accessible it is. >> >Arielle >> > >> >On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >> > > Terri, >> > > >> > > Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >> > > For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon >> > > or Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points >> > > of interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have >> > > any questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel >> > > free to contact me. Happy new year! >> > > >> > > Chris Nusbaum >> > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone >> > > >> > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >> > > >> > >> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We >> > >> recently acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. >> > >> We also recently acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling >> > >> with the touch screen, but my husband is always a wiz with >> > >> technology. Since this is very new to us, will you all recommend >> > >> some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color identifier, >> > >> and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to the >> > >> I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >> > >> >> > >> Sincerely, >> > >> Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Dec 31 22:59:35 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:59:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com><-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille? -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for my 2 blind friends. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone > and helps you get around the touch screen. > Arielle > > On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> What is BlindSquare? >> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >> how accessible it is. >> Arielle >> >> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>> Terri, >>> >>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>> contact me. Happy new year! >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>> recently >>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>> but >>>> my >>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>> will >>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a >>>> color >>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >>>> to >>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 23:00:37 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:00:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: <50e21732.e64dec0a.0965.7d27@mx.google.com> References: <50e21732.e64dec0a.0965.7d27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: how much is aid colors NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 17:51, Sophie Trist wrote: > I use a color identifier app called Aid Colors. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mauricio Almeida To: trising ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:19:04 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone > > hello there terry, > > For a money identifier, please look up look tell. > For a gps, i highly recommend you use blind square. > as far as a color identifier, i unfortunately haven't used any yet to recommend you one, but i hope you like the other two. > > happy new year, > > mauricio > On Dec 31, 2012, at 2:51 PM, "trising" wrote: > > Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently > acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also recently > acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, but my > husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, will > you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color > identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new to > the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. > > Sincerely, > Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalm > eida%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Dec 31 23:01:13 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:01:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com><000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC> Lavonya, sure, send me a link about pages and how it works with pcs and email. -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. hi ashley you should be able to. i saw it on you tube. if it is ok, i can send u the link for youtube. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:30, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod > touch, iPhone and Ipad. > Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not > have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its > compatibility with a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can > you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a > pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing > service to access it on the internet? > This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, > will voice over > announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean > how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the > screen itself or other thing like external keyboard? > > Thanks. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Sophie, > > Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM > To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. > An > iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone > please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! > Best, > Sophie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Misty Dawn Bradley To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > Hi, > Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering > getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word > Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad > or > if it works for both. > Thanks, > Misty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wmodnl wmodnl" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > > Good afternoon, > Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in > various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you > would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even > giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. > Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions > are turned off. > Have a good eveningg. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" > wrote: > > Hi all, > Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just > like > word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. > Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? > Thanks > LaVonnya > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 23:10:24 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:10:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC> References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> <000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> <1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: i can do that. i have the video in my head. i think in pictures. i can just go rite to it. just give me a few minutes. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:01, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Lavonya, > sure, send me a link about pages and how it works with pcs and email. > > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > hi ashley > you should be able to. i saw it on you tube. if it is ok, i can send u the link for youtube. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:30, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod touch, iPhone and Ipad. >> Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its compatibility with a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing service to access it on the internet? >> This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, will voice over >> announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the screen itself or other thing like external keyboard? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Sophie, >> >> Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM >> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An >> iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone >> please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! >> Best, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Misty Dawn Bradley > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Hi, >> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering >> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word >> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or >> if it works for both. >> Thanks, >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> >> Good afternoon, >> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in >> various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you >> would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even >> giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. >> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions >> are turned off. >> Have a good eveningg. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" >> > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like >> word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. >> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >> Thanks >> LaVonnya >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 31 23:10:47 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:10:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind. Dave At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille? > >-----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone > >is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this >is for my 2 blind friends. > >NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > >On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone >>and helps you get around the touch screen. >>Arielle >> >>On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>What is BlindSquare? >>>I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >>>location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >>>doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >>>how accessible it is. >>>Arielle >>> >>>On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>>>Terri, >>>> >>>>Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>>>For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>>>Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>>>interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>>>questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>>>contact me. Happy new year! >>>> >>>>Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>>>acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>>>recently >>>>>acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>>>but >>>>>my >>>>>husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>>>will >>>>>you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >>>>>identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >>>>>to >>>>>the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>>> >>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>Terri Wilcox From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 23:11:59 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:11:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. In-Reply-To: <1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC> References: <50e1096c.0901650a.49e7.3cfc@mx.google.com> <000d01cde70b$8a9f13b0$9fdd3b10$@gmail.com> <1BFF475129CE4CC09F04B53103012FB7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: ashley, r u on voxer, skype, face book, tango, or anythin like tht. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:01, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Lavonya, > sure, send me a link about pages and how it works with pcs and email. > > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. > > hi ashley > you should be able to. i saw it on you tube. if it is ok, i can send u the link for youtube. > > NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE > > On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:30, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > >> So you all say this application called Pages is on all I devices: Ipod touch, iPhone and Ipad. >> Is it possible to export such documents and read them on a pc? I do not have such a device now, but may in the future and just wondered about its compatibility with a pc because I mainly use pc for word processing. Can you for instance, type with pages and send it to yourself and read on a pc? Can you send it to others as an attachment or use some file sharing service to access it on the internet? >> This sounds like a good portable way to take notes. Also, as you write, will voice over >> announce all characters like jaws does? How do you edit the files? I mean how to do you delete, insert, and write on the device? Do you use the screen itself or other thing like external keyboard? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:01 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Sophie, >> >> Yes, Pages does work on the iPhone as well as the iPod Touch. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:41 PM >> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Misty, while I don't have Pages on my iPhone, I'm 99% sure it works on 1. An >> iPhone is freakishly similar to an iPad, so I don't see why not. Someone >> please correct me if I'm wrong. Happy new year to everyone! >> Best, >> Sophie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Misty Dawn Bradley > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:27:15 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> Hi, >> Will Pages work on an IPhone also, or only on an IPad? I am considering >> getting an IPhone, but I would like having something like Pages as a Word >> Processing app for school, so I am not sure if this only works on an IPad or >> if it works for both. >> Thanks, >> Misty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "wmodnl wmodnl" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pages for the iPad. >> >> >> Good afternoon, >> Pages works similarly to word on a PC. You can edit and draft text in >> various forms. Secondly, you are able to utilize the functions as you >> would use in word,. Functions include options for editing text, and even >> giving your file a file name. Arrow keys will work as they normally do. >> Are you using Voice-over? If so, make shore that the navigation functions >> are turned off. >> Have a good eveningg. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 30, 2012, at 6:15 PM, "Lavonya Gardner" >> > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> Does any 1 have pages? I just down loaded it on my iPad. Is it just like >> word for windows? My other question is, I use a blue tooth keyboard. >> Do the arrow keys work the same as they do on a windows keyboard? >> Thanks >> LaVonnya >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 23:17:13 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:17:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember. Arielle On 12/31/12, David Andrews wrote: > It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind. > > Dave > > At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >>Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille? >> >>-----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone >> >>is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this >>is for my 2 blind friends. >> >>NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >>On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone >>>and helps you get around the touch screen. >>>Arielle >>> >>>On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>What is BlindSquare? >>>>I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >>>>location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >>>>doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >>>>how accessible it is. >>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>>>>Terri, >>>>> >>>>>Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>>>>For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>>>>Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>>>>interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>>>>questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>>>>contact me. Happy new year! >>>>> >>>>>Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>>>>acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>>>>recently >>>>>>acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>>>>but >>>>>>my >>>>>>husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>>>>will >>>>>>you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a >>>>>> color >>>>>>identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are >>>>>> new >>>>>>to >>>>>>the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sincerely, >>>>>>Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 23:17:20 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:17:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: ashley, i just sent u 2 links to youtube. if u would like anything else feel free to ask me. i love doing things like this. helping people makes me smile. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:10, David Andrews wrote: > It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind. > > Dave > > At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille? >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone >> >> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this is for my 2 blind friends. >> >> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >> >> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone >>> and helps you get around the touch screen. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> What is BlindSquare? >>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >>>> how accessible it is. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>>>> Terri, >>>>> >>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>>>> contact me. Happy new year! >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>>>> recently >>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>>>> but >>>>>> my >>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>>>> will >>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a color >>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are new >>>>>> to >>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 23:24:44 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:24:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone In-Reply-To: References: <50e1e0d8.47ec440a.4777.2d12@mx.google.com> <-6826577366047404048@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <7CECE6A1-CA82-4B9B-8D96-F3F864DD5812@gmail.com> that is still a lot of money. good greef. NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE On Dec 31, 2012, at 18:17, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Maybe it was more like $1800, I can't remember. > Arielle > > On 12/31/12, David Andrews wrote: >> It is sold by American Printing House for the Blind. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:59 PM 12/31/2012, you wrote: >>> Also, where do you get the braille 18 refreshabraille? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:08 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recommended apps for the I-phone >>> >>> is braille 18 equipte with braille display, and how much is it. this >>> is for my 2 blind friends. >>> >>> NOTHING ABOUT US, WITHOUT US. AUTISTICS RULE >>> >>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 16:34, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>> Oh and RefreshaBraille 18 is a great bluetooth keyboard for the iPhone >>>> and helps you get around the touch screen. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 12/31/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> What is BlindSquare? >>>>> I use Ariadne GPS and it is great for looking around and getting your >>>>> location or distance from a bookmarked point of interest, but it >>>>> doesn't give turn-by-turn directions. Navigon might but I'm not sure >>>>> how accessible it is. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 12/31/12, christopher nusbaum wrote: >>>>>> Terri, >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably the best money identifier app is the LookTel money reader. >>>>>> For color identifying, try color ID free. And for GPS, try Navigon or >>>>>> Kapten GPS. Sendero Look Around is a good app for finding points of >>>>>> interest, although it doesn't have a built-in GPS. If you have any >>>>>> questions about the iPhone as you start using it, please feel free to >>>>>> contact me. Happy new year! >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:00 PM, trising wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, both my husband and I are totally blind. We recently >>>>>>> acquired two versions of I-phone, an I-phone 3 and a 4 S. We also >>>>>>> recently >>>>>>> acquired a Refreshabraille 18. I am struggling with the touch screen, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> husband is always a wiz with technology. Since this is very new to us, >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> you all recommend some high quality apps for a money identifier, a >>>>>>> color >>>>>>> identifier, and a GPS that are very usable for blind people who are >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the I-phone? Thanks for any assistance you can give. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com Mon Dec 31 23:36:50 2012 From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:36:50 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Get The New Years Celebration Started With The Djd Invasion Close Out The Year Special Airing Tonight Message-ID: Hi All! In some parts of the world, 2013 has arrived, and to those of you there, I say Happy New Year! For us in America, the new year is only hours away, and The Djd Invasion is going to be here to give you a great launch to your New Years Party! So if you're not going out to a club or partying, then I invite you to join me for a Djd Invasion Close Out The Year party starting at 8 PM eastern on Audio Access FM. The music will be upbeat and fun; we'll take your calls; and Will will be joining me as my guest dj, since I'm broadcasting live from his house in Orlando! During this show, you can reach me by twitter at djdrocks or audioaccessfm Via phone at 516 324 2314 or via skype at audio.accessfm So be there tonight at 8 PM, as we get the new years celebration started with great music and more on The Djd Invasion. The link to listen is at http://www.audioaccess.fm Hope to see you there! >From David Dunphy