[nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school

frandi.galindo at gmail.com frandi.galindo at gmail.com
Fri Feb 10 15:56:23 UTC 2012


Mark, I have read both of your messages and you said the same thing 
basically twice.  Just in different wording.  Desiree, Andi, and I just 
decided that instead of giving the same advice over and over again that 
everyone has been giving, we would add extra solutions.  Yes, talking will 
work, but up to a certain extent.  The poor kid asked for advice, and we all 
gave it to him.  Now its time for him to decide what to do with it.  And yes 
violence in school isn't the right thing to do, and yes now a days you can 
get charged with something and have it go on your record, but if you ask me 
and many of those out their who have been the objects and punching bags of 
another angry person, I think that we would rather have a record.  Nobody 
likes beeing stept on and trodden upon, but when the time comes to defend 
one self, one self must do what has to be done.  I don't know you very well, 
but I am pretty sure you were bullied at some point in your life.  Who 
hasn't.  It’s a what happens in schools.  Yes some get it more than others, 
and some not as much, but it happens.  Its sad to know that people don't 
stand up for themselves when they need to.




-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark J. Cadigan
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 6:16 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school

Desiree,



First of all, I want to start off by saying that the bully's violence is
absolutely not acceptable. With that being said, you resorting to violence
to solve the problem is likewise just as unacceptable. Sadly, some people
only listen to a good left hook; however, school is neither the proper time
nor place for administering this education to the bullies. I am by no means
suggesting looking for confrontation when off school grounds, however, when
off school grounds, your options are increased.



If you read my messages on this topic, I have never said explicitly or
implied that "people who get bullied obviously deserve it." however, what I
have been saying is that escalating the situation into violence while on
school grounds will only get you into trouble. I guarantee you that the
teachers that ignore the bullies will not ignore your defending yourself and
use it against you.



By all means defend yourself; however, doing it with your fist, while at
school is only a liability for yourself. In my experience, less overt
actions are just as affective and less likely to have an adverse affect on
you.



For situations outside of school for instance, using Frandi's example of the
mugger, in my opinion, if the mugger is not part of a large group, or armed
in some way, by all means, kick him in the balls and beat feet.  However,
getting into a fight with 3 or 4 members of a street gang, while unarmed
yourself, over your wallet makes no tactical sense. If you are out matched
in terms of fire power or fist power, throw your wallet and run in the
opposite direction.



However, the situation of a mugger is completely different than a bully. By
reporting the situation of bullying to the authorities, in this case the
teachers, and having it be documented that you did so, is not hiding behind
the skirts of anyone. Instead, it is the responsible course of action. If
you report it, the school becomes liable for anything that happens due to
there inaction. Resorting to violence at school is the absolute last resort
for self defense and should be avoided at all cost.



Mark



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 2:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school


> Hi Mark,
> Hmmm, so you're saying that the bullys violence is acceptable then?
> Maybe the old adage "an eye for an eye" isn't politically correct
> anymore, but let me tell you something, giving the bully the freedom
> to do and say whatever they want isn't the way to solve it either. As
> I said, there are hopeless cases in society. There are psychopaths who
> will never feel remorse for their actions, and this dysfunction often
> first appears in adolescence. Just the same, there are probably kids
> who feel pressure to be cool, and they think the way to be cool is to
> bully others, and will probably look back later in life and regret
> what they've done in their high school days. However, this distinction
> really isn't on the victim's mind while they're being bullied. That
> person is feeling trapped, helpless, and, in the worst cases,
> completely unsupported and alone, knowing no one will defend them or
> even take them seriously if they take the standard route and tell
> someone.
> I was one of those people. Without going too far into it, I'll just
> say that when I was growing up, no one gave a damn what was happening
> to me. The teachers were often in the same room while the bullies were
> doing whatever they felt like doing to me. They didn't want anything
> to do with a blind kid; they were forever trying to get out of
> accomodating me. My parents alternated between telling me to suck it
> up, it would build character, and my academic achievment was all that
> mattered, and all the rest, well, I should just ignore it. Sometimes
> they got angry and threatened to sue the school, but it never came to
> fruition; and most times, they constantly put me down for the
> depression that resulted from being completely isolated without a
> stable support system. Finally I went to a school for the blind for
> the duration of my high school years when I snapped and couldn't take
> the abuse anymore. That actually turned out to be much worse than
> public school ever could have been, and that's saying something.
> What I'm saying is, some of us are highly offended by your flippant
> remarks about how the bully gets a slap on the wrist and those of us
> who suffered without a single helping hand along the way should just
> remain silent. It's extremely ignorant and presumptious of you to say
> that people who get bullied obviously deserve it.
>
> On 2/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Actually, I think that there is a problem if you cannot be trusted to not
>> cheat when using a notetaker on a test. If people cannot trust you with
>> something like that, they probably cannot trust you with other things.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>>
>>> Well, it is easy to cheat with a notetaker and I'm surprised blind
>>> students these days are let to take tests with them.
>>> When I was in middle and high school, I was not allowed to use my 
>>> braille
>>> n speak on exams.
>>> That said, these students have no business accusing any one of cheating.
>>> They need to focus on their own work.
>>> If they don't have evidence of cheating, they cannot do anything about 
>>> it
>>> anyway. Just say you are not cheating and go on.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Beth
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:26 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Cheating on tests is a huge thing.  IF these kids are trying to
>>> tarnish your academic integrity, you need to tell the principal
>>> once again.  She will have to educate the kids about blindness
>>> and academic integrity issues.  This is important as you will
>>> need academic integrity in order to go on to college and
>>> university and if caught at university doing this, they will
>>> penalize you and kick you out.  Every sylabus at college I saw
>>> had an Academic Integrity policy on it, and that should be said
>>> of middle school.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:18:17 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>
>>> I agree.  I don't think this is something which is effecting my
>>> right to a "free and appropriate education," and therefore
>>> wouldn't be appropriate for an IEP or to even be brought up at
>>> the IEP meeting; that is, unless it happens again and again.  As
>>> I reported here last week, I have talked with my principal about
>>> this, and she has promised to take care of this.  I trust that
>>> she will, so I'm letting it go for now.
>>>
>>> Also, after more recent events have happened, the pretzel
>>> incident seems like a pretty small matter.  I won't go through
>>> all the details, but basically other students at my school have
>>> been falsely accusing me of cheating on tests (that is, looking
>>> at notes I take in my notetaker during tests) and being "let off
>>> the hook" on classwork when I'm really in a pullout class.  These
>>> kids really need to be educated!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 23:30:25 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> If it happens again and again, then bring it to the IEP team.
>>> But if not,
>>> I'd let it go.  I mean you let the top official-- the principal
>>> know.  So I
>>> think that is enough.  Its not as if the Iep team will do
>>> anything more; and
>>> besides most of them such as your parents and TVI already know
>>> about the
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:07 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> You're right; it wouldn't be something to put in my IEP.  But do
>>> you think it would hurt to bring it up to the team?
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 15:09:51 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> This is not the kind of thing that you put in an IEP.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>>
>>>    Hi Chris.  I'm assuming you're in high school..  I'd go to
>>> both your
>>> principal and your guidance counselor.  I wouldn't talk to him
>>> directly-- I
>>> think he'd get more dicipline if you had the principal talk to
>>> him.  I'd
>>> also bring it up during your IEP/PET.
>>> HTH
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>>
>>> I knew this kid, speaking of criminals who were playground and
>>> school
>>> bullies, who was always harassing me, got mein trouble at lunch
>>> one day in
>>> elementary school, and later went on to rape somebody and go to
>>> jail for
>>> it.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:41:07 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> When I was in elementary school, I had kids stealing books from
>>> me,
>>> throwing erasers in my hair, pulling chairs out from under me,
>>> you
>>> name it, they did it.  The worst part was that most times, my
>>> teachers
>>> were right there, and refused to do anything about it, because
>>> they
>>> too were uncomfortable with my blindness, so why should they
>>> intervene? I say this because it wasn't so long ago that this
>>> happened
>>> to me.  I grew up in the 90's, before bullying was the huge deal
>>> it is
>>> now, but still close enough to the events of Columbine that it
>>> wasn't
>>> completely unheard of either.  And it was as "unacceptable" then
>>> as it
>>> is now.  Yes, I put unacceptable in quotes, because guess what,
>>> it
>>> happens every day and so little of it is actually dealt with.
>>> Meanwhile, things that are no real problem at all are resulting
>>> in
>>> criminal records, such as a case I heard about recently where a
>>> boy
>>> gave his friend a hug in school and was charged with sexual
>>> harassment.  I forget their exact ages, but they were young,
>>> elementary
>>> school age.  And yet, kids are driven to suicide, depression,
>>> drugs,
>>> and every other dysfunction in the book, because they're bullied
>>> mercilessly every day and no one will do anything about it.
>>> Why do I say all this? I say it because I hope your school isn't
>>> like
>>> mine was.  I hope that someone in authority actually cares.  I
>>> hope that
>>> it doesn't escalate, because most kids have a cruel streak.  I
>>> think
>>> it's true what they say about the impulsiveness of
>>> adolescents--it's
>>> human nature to be cruel, and at that age, most of us haven't
>>> learned
>>> how to control those impulses or aggressions, making them the
>>> most
>>> prone not only to selfishness and thoughtlessness, but to almost
>>> animal rage, not to mention an inability to see beyond their own
>>> actions to how they might be affecting others.  My point is,
>>> people
>>> like this have to be stopped.  Perhaps if something can get
>>> through to
>>> them while they're still young and impressionable, they might
>>> not grow
>>> up to be tomorrow's criminals.  Or maybe they will, who knows.
>>> But I've
>>> seen enough to know what usually happens in these situations,
>>> even if
>>> it was 15 years ago; and, in saying that, I hope things have
>>> evolved
>>> at least a little bit since then.  It makes me sick to read
>>> messages
>>> like this.  I hope for your sake that these small actions do not
>>> go
>>> untouched.  Right now this kid is probably testing the waters,
>>> seeing
>>> just how much he can get away with.  If he can steal a pack of
>>> gum, so
>>> to speak, he may try to steal a candy bar next, then a bag of
>>> chips,
>>> and on and on it goes, you get the picture.
>>>
>>> On 2/1/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Chris, I know what you're going through.
>>> I had a girl, put a dead frog in my shirt, as we were playing
>>> outside,
>>> (I was in elementary school, when that happened.)
>>> Go to your principal, and he/she should do something.
>>> This stuff has got to stop!
>>> If they don't do anything, go in front of the schoolboard!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 2/1/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I had a problem at school today that I'd like to get your
>>> thoughts on as to what I should do next.  Today during lunch,
>>> another kid at my table dumped his bag of pretzels into my water
>>> bottle without my knowing; he must have thought it was some kind
>>> of funny prank.  Fortunately, I was sitting next to a good
>>> friend
>>> of mine, who told me about this.  Even after multiple people
>>> commented negatively about what he did, he said nothing.
>>>
>>> Variations on this have happened before with this same kid as
>>> the
>>> perpetrater; only once before today this school year and 3 times
>>> last year.  The one time something like this happened this year,
>>> he put his dirty napkin in my Yogurt cup (after I had finished
>>> eating the Yogurt) without saying anything.  The first time
>>> (with
>>> the napkin,) I realized that this had happened as I was getting
>>> my trash together to throw it away.  Knowing who did it, since
>>> he'd done this kind of thing before last year, I said, "(Insert
>>> name,) why is your napkin in my Yogurt?" Knowing that he had
>>> been
>>> caught, he replied, "Oh...  sorry." I then talked to the lunch
>>> lady who is in charge of supervising all of us in the lunchroom.
>>> She said she would talk to him.  I wasn't there when she did,
>>> but
>>> apparently she had, as the problem (for about a month and a
>>> half)
>>> had been resolved...  that is, until today.
>>>
>>> I feel that this is a person taking advantage of my blindness
>>> and
>>> playing a "prank" on me knowing that I won't catch him.  So,
>>> what
>>> do you think I should do next? Should I go to our principal?
>>> Should I talk to him directly? Any suggestions would be greatly
>>> appreciated!
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>> se%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>>> wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>> se%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/frandi.galindo%40gmail.com 





More information about the NABS-L mailing list