[nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school

Fri Feb 10 22:45:14 UTC 2012

Chris is in middle not high school.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school


> Nicole,
> Excuse me, we are talking high school, not college.
> Read the original email. Chris is in eigth grade and students are acusing 
> him of cheating.
>
> I think they are just trying to bully him.  But that said, I think he 
> needs to ensure they can see his work like other students. There needs to 
> be visual verification, just as there is for other students.
> So, if you need to use your technology, hook up a display to it. Then when 
> students  acuse you of something, you have the teacher's backing since 
> they saw you do the exam.
>
> Personally, I think blind students get to use electronics way too much. If 
> sighted students have to write by hand and read the test, why not blind 
> students. Read the braille test and write answers.
> Many schools do  not let you use personal computers and IMO it should stay 
> that way.
>
> Also, having options is important because  your technology can break down.
> It seems like blind students are treated and trusted more so than sighted 
> students in public school these days with taking exams on their equipment. 
> I didn't do that. It worked okay so I know there are other options.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>
> Please be careful about making blanket statements. What may be/have been 
> for
> you may not be the case for everyone. I am currently attending college, 
> and
> I am allowed to use both my BrailleNote and my laptop on tests. Of course,
> there is that thing called the honor code that says that cheating is 
> against
> the rules. It applies to me no differently than it applies to other
> students. This is enough to ensure that I do not cheat. As I said in a
> previous email, if you cannot be trusted to not cheat on tests, then it's
> possible that you cannot be trusted with certain other things.
> As for your options for other test taking methods, only 5 is really
> practical in a college setting.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>
>
>> Hi,
>> Well, I think there needs to be supervision of these notetakers if they 
>> are used in test situations.
>> I think a monitor should be hooked up to the notetaker for monitoring.
>> Alternatively you can take tests a number of different ways in high 
>> school; I am glad I did not use my notetaker as the temptation to look at 
>> notes would be there and besides I firmly believe one needs to keep up 
>> their hard copy braille skills and not rely on notetakers all the time.
>> BTW, you do not use a notetaker in college; you use a computer or a 
>> reader for tests. You cannot use your own PDA such as a braille notetaker 
>> or personal laptop either; at least where I went to school you do not 
>> because they know you have personal and school info on your laptop, 
>> notetaker, I Pad, etc.
>>
>> Why should blind students get to use electronic equipment when the rest 
>> of the class has to write by hand?
>> You have an advantage if you use a pc or notetaker because you can edit 
>> your work.
>>
>> Instead of a notetaker you can take tests these ways and eliminate the 
>> questions that you might be cheating:
>> 1. Have your TVI, teacher of the visually impaired, read it to you.
>> 2. Have an aide read it to you if one works with you.
>> 3. If you have to write, you write on a brailler and your TVI transcribes 
>> it. Oh what a concept; write by hand like everyone else!
>>
>> 4. Read it in braille and mark your answers in braille on a brailler. You 
>> can also mark your answers with a crayone or something else.
>>
>> 5. Take the test on a school issued computer that has none of your study 
>> notes on it.
>>
>> That said I'm sure no cheating is going on; but just saying if you want 
>> to eliminate suspicions, you do not use your own
>> notetaker which has your   notes on it.
>>
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: frandi.galindo at gmail.com
>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 10:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>> How else is some one who has vision problems or who is blind suppose to 
>> take
>> notes in schools with out some kind of device that assists them in doing 
>> so.
>> Do people expect them to bust out a pencil and a sheet of paper and start
>> printing or cursive like the rest of them?  Educate.  That’s the magic 
>> word.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:52 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>> Actually, I think that there is a problem if you cannot be trusted to not
>> cheat when using a notetaker on a test. If people cannot trust you with
>> something like that, they probably cannot trust you with other things.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>
>>
>>> Well, it is easy to cheat with a notetaker and I'm surprised blind 
>>> students these days are let to take tests with them.
>>> When I was in middle and high school, I was not allowed to use my 
>>> braille n speak on exams.
>>> That said, these students have no business accusing any one of cheating.
>>> They need to focus on their own work.
>>> If they don't have evidence of cheating, they cannot do anything about 
>>> it anyway. Just say you are not cheating and go on.
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Beth
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:26 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Cheating on tests is a huge thing.  IF these kids are trying to
>>> tarnish your academic integrity, you need to tell the principal
>>> once again.  She will have to educate the kids about blindness
>>> and academic integrity issues.  This is important as you will
>>> need academic integrity in order to go on to college and
>>> university and if caught at university doing this, they will
>>> penalize you and kick you out.  Every sylabus at college I saw
>>> had an Academic Integrity policy on it, and that should be said
>>> of middle school.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:18:17 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> Hi Ashley,
>>>
>>> I agree.  I don't think this is something which is effecting my
>>> right to a "free and appropriate education," and therefore
>>> wouldn't be appropriate for an IEP or to even be brought up at
>>> the IEP meeting; that is, unless it happens again and again.  As
>>> I reported here last week, I have talked with my principal about
>>> this, and she has promised to take care of this.  I trust that
>>> she will, so I'm letting it go for now.
>>>
>>> Also, after more recent events have happened, the pretzel
>>> incident seems like a pretty small matter.  I won't go through
>>> all the details, but basically other students at my school have
>>> been falsely accusing me of cheating on tests (that is, looking
>>> at notes I take in my notetaker during tests) and being "let off
>>> the hook" on classwork when I'm really in a pullout class.  These
>>> kids really need to be educated!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 23:30:25 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> If it happens again and again, then bring it to the IEP team.
>>> But if not,
>>> I'd let it go.  I mean you let the top official-- the principal
>>> know.  So I
>>> think that is enough.  Its not as if the Iep team will do
>>> anything more; and
>>> besides most of them such as your parents and TVI already know
>>> about the
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:07 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> You're right; it wouldn't be something to put in my IEP.  But do
>>> you think it would hurt to bring it up to the team?
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 15:09:51 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> This is not the kind of thing that you put in an IEP.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>>
>>>    Hi Chris.  I'm assuming you're in high school..  I'd go to
>>> both your
>>> principal and your guidance counselor.  I wouldn't talk to him
>>> directly-- I
>>> think he'd get more dicipline if you had the principal talk to
>>> him.  I'd
>>> also bring it up during your IEP/PET.
>>> HTH
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>>
>>> I knew this kid, speaking of criminals who were playground and
>>> school
>>> bullies, who was always harassing me, got mein trouble at lunch
>>> one day in
>>> elementary school, and later went on to rape somebody and go to
>>> jail for
>>> it.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:41:07 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] asking for advice on problem at school
>>>
>>> When I was in elementary school, I had kids stealing books from
>>> me,
>>> throwing erasers in my hair, pulling chairs out from under me,
>>> you
>>> name it, they did it.  The worst part was that most times, my
>>> teachers
>>> were right there, and refused to do anything about it, because
>>> they
>>> too were uncomfortable with my blindness, so why should they
>>> intervene? I say this because it wasn't so long ago that this
>>> happened
>>> to me.  I grew up in the 90's, before bullying was the huge deal
>>> it is
>>> now, but still close enough to the events of Columbine that it
>>> wasn't
>>> completely unheard of either.  And it was as "unacceptable" then
>>> as it
>>> is now.  Yes, I put unacceptable in quotes, because guess what,
>>> it
>>> happens every day and so little of it is actually dealt with.
>>> Meanwhile, things that are no real problem at all are resulting
>>> in
>>> criminal records, such as a case I heard about recently where a
>>> boy
>>> gave his friend a hug in school and was charged with sexual
>>> harassment.  I forget their exact ages, but they were young,
>>> elementary
>>> school age.  And yet, kids are driven to suicide, depression,
>>> drugs,
>>> and every other dysfunction in the book, because they're bullied
>>> mercilessly every day and no one will do anything about it.
>>> Why do I say all this? I say it because I hope your school isn't
>>> like
>>> mine was.  I hope that someone in authority actually cares.  I
>>> hope that
>>> it doesn't escalate, because most kids have a cruel streak.  I
>>> think
>>> it's true what they say about the impulsiveness of
>>> adolescents--it's
>>> human nature to be cruel, and at that age, most of us haven't
>>> learned
>>> how to control those impulses or aggressions, making them the
>>> most
>>> prone not only to selfishness and thoughtlessness, but to almost
>>> animal rage, not to mention an inability to see beyond their own
>>> actions to how they might be affecting others.  My point is,
>>> people
>>> like this have to be stopped.  Perhaps if something can get
>>> through to
>>> them while they're still young and impressionable, they might
>>> not grow
>>> up to be tomorrow's criminals.  Or maybe they will, who knows.
>>> But I've
>>> seen enough to know what usually happens in these situations,
>>> even if
>>> it was 15 years ago; and, in saying that, I hope things have
>>> evolved
>>> at least a little bit since then.  It makes me sick to read
>>> messages
>>> like this.  I hope for your sake that these small actions do not
>>> go
>>> untouched.  Right now this kid is probably testing the waters,
>>> seeing
>>> just how much he can get away with.  If he can steal a pack of
>>> gum, so
>>> to speak, he may try to steal a candy bar next, then a bag of
>>> chips,
>>> and on and on it goes, you get the picture.
>>>
>>> On 2/1/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Chris, I know what you're going through.
>>> I had a girl, put a dead frog in my shirt, as we were playing
>>> outside,
>>> (I was in elementary school, when that happened.)
>>> Go to your principal, and he/she should do something.
>>> This stuff has got to stop!
>>> If they don't do anything, go in front of the schoolboard!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 2/1/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I had a problem at school today that I'd like to get your
>>> thoughts on as to what I should do next.  Today during lunch,
>>> another kid at my table dumped his bag of pretzels into my water
>>> bottle without my knowing; he must have thought it was some kind
>>> of funny prank.  Fortunately, I was sitting next to a good
>>> friend
>>> of mine, who told me about this.  Even after multiple people
>>> commented negatively about what he did, he said nothing.
>>>
>>> Variations on this have happened before with this same kid as
>>> the
>>> perpetrater; only once before today this school year and 3 times
>>> last year.  The one time something like this happened this year,
>>> he put his dirty napkin in my Yogurt cup (after I had finished
>>> eating the Yogurt) without saying anything.  The first time
>>> (with
>>> the napkin,) I realized that this had happened as I was getting
>>> my trash together to throw it away.  Knowing who did it, since
>>> he'd done this kind of thing before last year, I said, "(Insert
>>> name,) why is your napkin in my Yogurt?" Knowing that he had
>>> been
>>> caught, he replied, "Oh...  sorry." I then talked to the lunch
>>> lady who is in charge of supervising all of us in the lunchroom.
>>> She said she would talk to him.  I wasn't there when she did,
>>> but
>>> apparently she had, as the problem (for about a month and a
>>> half)
>>> had been resolved...  that is, until today.
>>>
>>> I feel that this is a person taking advantage of my blindness
>>> and
>>> playing a "prank" on me knowing that I won't catch him.  So,
>>> what
>>> do you think I should do next? Should I go to our principal?
>>> Should I talk to him directly? Any suggestions would be greatly
>>> appreciated!
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
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