[nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility

Mon Jan 23 03:59:12 UTC 2012

Peter,
You are not a student and further probably do not use Office suite everyday; 
I don't even know if you have a job.
Yet you seem to discount our collective experience.

No one said Office suite was not accessible. David Dodge said that it was 
becoming less accessible.
That is true. The layout is confusing and again, Access is not accessible. I 
talked to a tech trainer about it and he told me so.
It is also less user friendly. Certainly the basic word processing stuff 
work well; the short cut commands still work i.e. control S for save, 
control n for new document, Others like cut, copy, and paste are the same.
Yet, as you use the ribbons more its confusing.

For instance: go to the reference tab. You hear a group saying 1 of 5 and 
then you tab again; jaws says 1 of 4. Okay, what exactly is the group? One 
of four what?

How do you get to the box options? Jaws says  group box. For instance, you 
tab to footnote or table of contents. If you down arrow, there are no 
options.
Sure, I suppose word is accessible, but it is not user friendly.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:26 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility

Hello David and everyone,

    And especially when others are using these products without any trouble.
Might I suggest checking your software and screen reader's documentation for
procedures and work-around to possible accessibility issues before declaring
this or that product blind-unfriendly? We do that here and have found fixes
for many presumed inaccessibility concerns.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility

I would urge people to be more careful with how they word
things.  Everyone is saying Office 2010 is not as
accessible.  Strictly speaking, I don't think this is true.  You can
get to all the controls and identify them with most screen
readers.  I think the product may not be as usable for a blind
person, but it is not inaccessible.

I am increasingly seeing a tendency on the part of the blind
community to brand software or a web site inaccessible when it is
that they just don't know how to use it, or their assistive technology.

Surely there are problems out there, but we must be accurate when
reporting them.

David Andrews

At 08:25 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:
>David,
>I really agree! 2003 with its menus was more accessible. 2007 wasn't
>too bad from what I heard. I did not try it though. I have 2010 and
>feel its less accessible. As someone already said, access is not
>accessible and in 2007 it was. Microsoft just had to change things; go
>figure.
>Does anyone have a point of contact for them in the accessibility
>department or whomever handels access issues there.
>
>Ashley
>
>-----Original Message----- From: David Dodge
>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:12 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>
>Microsoft programs appear to me to be getting less and less accessible as
>time goes on.
>
>If you are having accessibility issues with these products I recommend
>contacting Microsoft from their website. It is unlikely that they will take
>the feedback into consideration, but still.
>
>2003 and 2007 or certainly more accessible than 2010.
>
>David
>----------------------------------
>David Dodge
>Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>State University of New York Student Assembly
>English Major
>University at Buffalo
>306 Clemens Hall
>Buffalo, NY 14260
>daviddod at buffalo.edu
>
>
>On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
>ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>
>>As far as my experience, there is no advantage to using 2007 or 2010,
>>especially if you find 2003. Files created using 2007 and 2010 can still
>>be
>>read and edited using 2003. I will leave it up to you, but my
>>recommendation is to use Office 2003. There are ways to have both, but
>>they
>>are not easy or convenient.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:56 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>
>>
>>its my computer. Gee would be nice to have both versions
>>
>>-----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:46 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>
>>No, you cannot. Is this your computer? If so, I would strongly recommend
>>just uninstalling the current version of Office and installing Office
>>2003.
>>If it is not your computer, then maybe you could talk to someone who has
>>the
>>authority to do it and explain that it would make things a million times
>>easier.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:18 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>
>>
>>Nicole,
>>I think I have an old cd with office 2003 around. Do you know if I can
>>have
>>them concurrently on the computer?
>>It just would be nice to have both options; so if I cannot figure out
>>where
>>something is in the ribbons, I can go back to the nice, simple menus of
>>2003.
>>
>>-----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:10 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>
>>Yes. The excerpt is from the "What's New in JAWS 12.0" section. I do not
>>have Office 2007 or 2010, so I unfortunately cannot tell you how well it
>>works, but it is probably better than nothing.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" <
>>arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:00 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>
>>
>>Does JAWS 12 have this?
>>Arielle
>>
>>On 1/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Do you know how to use the quick settings in JAWS? Copied from the JAWS
>>>13
>>>help:
>>>
>>>Virtual Ribbon Menu
>>>The Ribbon is a new style of menu available in many new applications
>>>being
>>>released today. Ribbons first appeared in Office 2007 programs, but are
>>>now
>>>becoming more common in other applications tailored for the Windows 7
>>>operating system. Ribbons create an accessibility challenge due to
>>>inconsistent navigation between various groups and items. For example,
>>>when
>>>you enter the Lower Ribbon and press the ARROW keys to move between items
>>>in
>>>a group, you can skip items and unexpectedly move into another group.
>>>Pressing TAB gives no indication that you have left one group and entered
>>>another. Using first letter navigation to find items can be difficult and
>>>frustrating. Finally, because of a group's layout, you do not know if you
>>>should navigate up, down, left, or right to select an item.
>>>
>>>The new Virtual Ribbon Menu provides predictable navigation, lets you see
>>>everything in the Ribbon, and offers consistency when navigating with
>>>ARROW
>>>keys. For example, the ARROW and TAB keys move focus from the Upper
>>>Ribbon
>>>tabs to the Lower Ribbon groups. Once in a group, the ARROW, TAB, and
>>>SHIFT+TAB keys move through all items in a group, move from one group to
>>>the
>>>next, and wrap to the beginning of the Ribbon. For submenus, SPACEBAR and
>>>ENTER expand menus, and ESCAPE collapses menus. The Virtual Ribbon Menu
>>>is
>>>off by default and can be switched on or off from within Settings Center
>>>or
>>>the JAWS Startup Wizard. When it is on, the Ribbon is navigated using a
>>>traditional menu and submenu format familiar to most JAWS users.
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:30 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>>  jaws 13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:23 PM
>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>
>>>>What version of JAWS are you using?
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:08 PM
>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>Seems like the office suite is less user friendly with the new ribbons.
>>>>>Occasionally I find a button unlabeled.
>>>>>Anyway, is access and Publisher accessible at all? I'd like to create
>>>>>simple charts with publisher and maybe brochures if I volunteer for pr
>>>>>somewhere.
>>>>>Is excell still accessible?
>>>>>I'll need the access database for work probably.

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