From dandrews at visi.com Sun Jul 1 18:23:13 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:23:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Anywhere, everywhere, that's accessibility! Message-ID: > >Dear David: > >Since 2002 it has been our pleasure to offer a growing line of >assistive technology products at the most competitive rates in the >industry. To show our gratitude for the overwhelming support from >the blind and visually impaired community, Serotek is pleased to >announce the launch of a new product package. > >Beginning July 1 new and existing customers will have the option to >access three of our top-of-the-line applications for one low rate. >All the distinguished benefits of System >Access, DocuScan Plus, and >SAMNet can now be accessed for $21.95 a month >or $240 a year. These rates will include the cost of future updates. >Scanning documents, retrieving files, checking e-mail, browsing the >web, chatting with friends, and doing much more from the cloud just >got easier on the pocketbook. Each of the products listed above may >still be purchased outright, but if you like the convenience of a >single package with everything you need for one low price, the >Accessibility Anywhere package is the perfect solution. > >Has it been a while since you've tried our products? Are you excited >about accessibility anywhere, but you want to see how it works >first? We're resetting all trials to give you the opportunity to >take our products for a test drive. Simply log in to >http://www.satogo.com with your credentials, >and you can access SAMNet, System Access, and DocuScan Plus on a >trial basis for 7 days. > >Traditional? Serotek was never designed to follow the norm. Its >products, services, and the community that has subsequently been >born of its efforts are a manifestation of what can be done when >brilliant minds come together for a common mission, and at Serotek, >the mission is simple: Work hard until we make assistive technology >a thing of the past. At Serotek, your contributions are an >investment in a community poised to change the world forever. When >you're ready for accessibility anywhere, >visit this link to get started. > >You can also >read >more about accessibility anywhere. > >If you have any questions or would like more information, please >send an email to inf at serote.cor call us at (612) 246.4818. > >The Serotek Team From dandrews at visi.com Sun Jul 1 18:41:58 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:41:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing the release of Sendero GPS, 2012 Message-ID: Announcing the release of Sendero GPS, 2012 Roseville, California, July 1, 2012 This Sendero GPS 2012 release for the BrailleNote and Sense products is Sendero's sixteenth version since the laptop GPS version was first released in 2000. It has been 19 years since the founders of Sendero began working on the first GPS prototypes. This release includes software improvements for Sendero Maps for the PC as well as for the BrailleNote and Sense GPS versions as well as updated maps for these products and for Mobile Geo. Our goal at Sendero is to provide a navigational product that levels the playing field when it comes to getting around independently. Notable features include the ability to: * Virtually explore the maps even before you head out the door * Personalize your world by recording your own Points of Interest * Share Points of Interest with other users, much like the popular mainstream applications such as Google Maps and Freebase * Use the enhanced features of Sendero Maps for the PC to sync all your data between the PC and your portable device. Thanks to continued funding from NIDRR, we have been able to refine and develop Sendero GPS and maps products so that they provide a wide range of features available on multiple platforms. See www.wayfinding.org for more details on our NIDRR funded projects. Existing Sendero GPS customers can learn all the details about new features by going to: http://senderogroup.com/products/GPS/v2012changes.htm Sense Navigation customers can go to: http://senderogroup.com/support/SenseNav/Sense%20Navigation%20Changes.htm For those of you who already have a current SMA on your product, your upgrade is eagerly awaiting you at http://www.GoSendero.com. For those who would like to try v2012 before you buy, download the Trial Version for your BrailleNote. You will have access to all countries we currently support for the 30 days, after which you can purchase a full version, opt for the Pay-As-You-Go payment plan, or uninstall the 30 day trial version and re-install your old version of Sendero GPS. To purchase, call Sendero toll free, 1-888-757-6810 From philso1003 at gmail.com Sun Jul 1 20:54:43 2012 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 16:54:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Using smartphone for school? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Nellym. That's great your school has an app and it's accessible! On 6/29/12, Nallym Bravo wrote: > Phil, > > My iPhone is what keeps me organized. I use the calendar and reminders > to stay on top of homework and meetings. I use pages together with a > blue tooth keyboard to right notes or even do homework on the go. > As an English major, many of the texts I use for class are on iBooks > which is great. I also use language apps like Verb2Verb and google > translate when I need a quick fix in a French class. Even apps like > Wikipedia are helpful, not for any serious research but when I'm > trying to get broad ideas and general background information. > Best of all, FIU has its own app. I use that to register for classes, > view my online courses, keep up with campus news, etc. The app is > actually super accessible which makes my life awesome. > Honestly, I use my phone so much that I don't even think about it any > more. There are countless other ways, I could go on and on. I didn't > really realize it until I started writing this response, but I'd say > that having a smart phone has really helped me be productive, > efficient, and organized. > > Best, > Nallym > > On 6/29/12, Philip S wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> Just curious. Do you use your smartphone to help you learn, study, >> manage schoolwork? If so, what apps do you use and what do you use it >> for? To take notes? To listen to DAISY? To help you do a chemistry lab >> project? Please do share your experience with the group. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Phil >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nbrav003%40fiu.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com > From rloew at ETS.ORG Mon Jul 2 03:43:10 2012 From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 20:43:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention: GRE discussion, 8 a.m. Tues. Message-ID: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D12292307@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local> Hi - For those of you who are at Convention - As I mentioned at the NABS meeting tonight, for any students with questions or suggestions about the GRE General Test (accommodations, request and approval process, accessible practice materials, etc.): Let's meet over breakfast at 8 a.m. Tues. in the Atrium I lobby, at the tables in the carpeted area outside the Stemmons Ballroom. There's an express service line there outside the Terrace Café. See you then! If you'd like to speak w/ me but can't make it Tues. a.m., feel free to contact me: Ruth Loew, rloew at ets.org. I'll be at Convention all week; my cell phone # is 609-619-1854. I'll be happy to meet with you some other time during the week if that works better. Also, for the math-to-speech research project I mentioned (improving the way MathPlayer speaks MathML): The ETS research team working on this project is looking for high-school or middle-school students who have taken Algebra I or higher to participate in feedback-gathering studies during the coming year. If you're eligible and interested, or if you know of students who might be eligible, please call or email me. And one more request from the research team: Any suggestions for SAPI-5-compatible voices that are currently available? (Eloquence is NOT currently available, or at least not for research purposes.) Thanks, and see some of you Tues.! Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D. Assistant Director Office of Disability Policy, ETS phone: 609-683-2984 fax: 609-683-2220 From whetstonekjw at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 11:00:26 2012 From: whetstonekjw at yahoo.com (Kimarie Whetstone) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 04:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Online Learners with Vision Loss? Message-ID: <1341226826.26282.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>   Hello. I am a doctoral researcher, conducting a case study on podcasting for online learners with vision loss. The current uses of audio podcasts and the accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S. online college courses as perceived by learners with vision loss is unknown. For that reason, we would like to request your participation in the study to share what you perceive to be the current uses of audio podcasts and your perception about the accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S. online college courses. Click on the link below to access the online survey on SurveyGizmo.com. The survey will take approximately 15 minutes to complete and will be anonymous. edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibility-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses The case study has an in-depth, personal focus and is subjective.  If you decide to be in this study, you will do the following things on an accessible, Section 508 compliant online survey on SurveyGizmo.com: * answer background questions about the online courses you have taken through U.S. college institutions that provided podcasts. * answer questions about the current uses and accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S. online college courses. * give personal information about yourself, such as your gender, age, and ethnicity.     The procedure for analysis will include providing descriptions from the survey data on the current uses and accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S. online college courses and identifying cross-case themes and patterns. Participation in this study is voluntary. If you choose not to participate or if you choose to withdraw from the study, you may do so at any time. There will be no penalty. You may also request to receive a copy of the results.   The link provided will take you to an informed consent form to read. If you choose to participate, you may proceed with taking the survey by clicking Continue at the end of the form. You may click Exit if you choose not to participate in the survey.   Please feel free to forward this invitation to any learners with vision loss that you know of who have taken an online course that provided podcasts, so that they also can participate in the study. You must be 18 years of age or older to participate. The deadline to participate in the surveys is September 1, 2012. If you have any questions regarding the study, please contact Kimarie W. Whetstone at whetstonekjw at yahoo.comor Capella Human Research Protections Office at 1-888-227-3552, extension 4716.     Thank you for your participation in this study, Kimarie W. Whetstone Doctoral Student From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon Jul 2 14:19:44 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 10:19:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention: GRE discussion, 8 a.m. Tues. Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B0E@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> When I took the GRE they provided a reader that couldn't read several of the math symbols such as Less than, or Grater than. They should allow the student to bring a reader of his or her choice. The MCAT people allowed me to bring my own reader and provided proctors for the exam. This worked out much better. I'm not at convention this year because I can't get time off of work, but I would love updates on this issue. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Loew, Ruth Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 11:43 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Convention: GRE discussion, 8 a.m. Tues. Hi - For those of you who are at Convention - As I mentioned at the NABS meeting tonight, for any students with questions or suggestions about the GRE General Test (accommodations, request and approval process, accessible practice materials, etc.): Let's meet over breakfast at 8 a.m. Tues. in the Atrium I lobby, at the tables in the carpeted area outside the Stemmons Ballroom. There's an express service line there outside the Terrace Café. See you then! If you'd like to speak w/ me but can't make it Tues. a.m., feel free to contact me: Ruth Loew, rloew at ets.org. I'll be at Convention all week; my cell phone # is 609-619-1854. I'll be happy to meet with you some other time during the week if that works better. Also, for the math-to-speech research project I mentioned (improving the way MathPlayer speaks MathML): The ETS research team working on this project is looking for high-school or middle-school students who have taken Algebra I or higher to participate in feedback-gathering studies during the coming year. If you're eligible and interested, or if you know of students who might be eligible, please call or email me. And one more request from the research team: Any suggestions for SAPI-5-compatible voices that are currently available? (Eloquence is NOT currently available, or at least not for research purposes.) Thanks, and see some of you Tues.! Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D. Assistant Director Office of Disability Policy, ETS phone: 609-683-2984 fax: 609-683-2220 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs.fldoe.org From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon Jul 2 17:16:24 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 13:16:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] introducing Myself In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B21@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> We do need good TVIs. Some of the TVIs I know from working in this field are completely unacquainted with the material being taught in the classroom. They know about large print and magnification, but they are unable to actually provide instruction in any classroom topics. Most of them should be referred to as learning specialists or something, not teachers. This doesn't mean, however, that there aren't amazing TVIs out there. I have come across 1 or two outstanding TVIs. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] introducing Myself Hello Rilie! Wow, we need good TVIs! Are you wanting to specialize in one area, or just be a full TVI? Does secondary English education talk about people learning things in their second language? Like if I'm Italian or German going to school in China? Or is it something totally different? I've never heard of that major before... Thanks and so nice to hear from another person! And especially one going to Dallas! Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Rylie Robinson Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 2:31 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] introducing Myself Hello all, I don't really know how these introduction processes work on lists, but I just wanted to drop in and say hello to everyone. I've been on the list for a long time, but I finally changed my EMail over to a client that I actually enjoy using. So, hopefully, more posting from me will follow. My name is Rylie, a 20-year-old college student attending Indiana university Purdue University Indianapolis. Right now I'm studying Secondary English education. I hope after I acquire this degree to earn a certification in teacher of blind students and teach Braille in a public school setting. I have been involved in the nFB for a while, and I know, or know of quite a few of the Nabs members, and this seemed like one of the best ways to stay involved, especially with convention coming right around the corner. I hope to get to know some of you more and to be able to see some of you in Dallas. Blessings to all, Rylie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 17:21:51 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:21:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Indepencence Day Message-ID: <4ff1d8ba.032f650a.38e9.6eb9@mx.google.com> Hello everyone just wanted to wish you all a Happy Independence Day. This is a day to celebrate America's independence and we should be proud to be Americans. To our men and women in the Armed Forces thank you for all you do. From rloew at ETS.ORG Mon Jul 2 17:27:27 2012 From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 10:27:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention: GRE discussion, 8 a.m. Tues. Message-ID: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D12292381@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local> Hi - Thanks for the question, Zunaira. We permit blind students to take tests w/ their own readers, and we have for years. Without researching your case, I can't tell you why this wasn't approved for you; I'm sorry you didn't receive the accommodations you requested. From your message, it doesn't sound as if you wish to retest. However, if you do, please do request your own reader if this is your preference. For blind individuals taking GRE, TOEFL, Praxis, or TExES tests: Our accommodations request and approval procedure has been streamlined a great deal in recent years. Please request your accommodations through the usual process (see the Bulletin Supplement for Test Takers with Disabilities or Health-Related Needs at www.ets.org/disabilities). However, if you have questions that aren't answered when you go through the standard procedure, or have difficulty with your request, please feel free to contact me. It was great meeting many of you last night. See (some of) you tomorrow (Tues.) at breakfast! Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D. Assistant Director Office of Disability Policy, ETS phone: 609-683-2984 fax: 609-683-2220 ------------------------------------- original message --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 10:19:44 -0400 From: "Wasif, Zunaira" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention: GRE discussion, 8 a.m. Tues. Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B0E at DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When I took the GRE they provided a reader that couldn't read several of the math symbols such as Less than, or Grater than. They should allow the student to bring a reader of his or her choice. The MCAT people allowed me to bring my own reader and provided proctors for the exam. This worked out much better. I'm not at convention this year because I can't get time off of work, but I would love updates on this issue. Zunaira From daviddod at buffalo.edu Mon Jul 2 17:28:23 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 13:28:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Diversity in Disability Symposium: Video Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Below is the link to the University at Buffalo's "Diversity in Disability" symposium 2012 video. You will see footage from the day of the symposium, interviews with the planning committee, and discussion from UB officials. This video will be shown at the annual Association of Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD) conference in New Orleans this month. If you would like to do something like this at your campus or have any questions please let me know. Please watch! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7v7lQp558 David ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 18:03:54 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 14:03:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Indepencence Day In-Reply-To: <4ff1d8ba.032f650a.38e9.6eb9@mx.google.com> References: <4ff1d8ba.032f650a.38e9.6eb9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It's a little early, but thanks! On 7/2/12, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Hello everyone just wanted to wish you all a Happy Independence > Day. This is a day to celebrate America's independence and we > should be proud to be Americans. To our men and women in the > Armed Forces thank you for all you do. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Jul 2 23:57:54 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 18:57:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Target looking for contractors to assist with accessibility testing Message-ID: > >Target is currently looking to contract with a >number of individuals to perform accessibility >testing on its web site. Candidates nationwide are urged to apply. > >Position title: Accessibility Specialist > > >Position type: Contract > > >Reports to: Operations Analyst, Accessibility > > >RESPONSIBILITIES > * Performs testing to ensure that web sites > are free from accessibility-related defects and > are functioning as planned; confirming that > user requirements, design specifications, > development and accessibility meet or exceed expectations. > * Develops, follows, and maintains > documentation including User Requirements, Test plans, and User Scenarios. > * Reports all bugs, enhancements, or tasks > in JIRA (bug tracking software). > * Assigns all accessibility issues to > appropriate team members and works directly > with Project Manager or development staff to > identify solutions and next steps. > * Tracks progress regarding issue resolution > and confirms that issues are retested and closed. > * Supports Accessibility and Technical leads > regarding all issue tracking & reporting needs. > * Manages priorities and risks as defined by > the site deployment time line. > > >KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS >§ Screen-reader proficiency, particularly JAWS an absolute must. >§ Expert-level knowledge of W3C accessibility standards (WCAG 1.0/2.0). >§ Strong analytical skills and problem solving >skills necessary to identify programming errors >or inconsistencies, and the ability to recommend solutions. >§ Highly organized with great attention to detail. >§ Excellent verbal and written communication skills. >§ Ability to collaborate with developers as >needed to isolate root cause of defects. >§ Familiarity with common web site >applications, web browsers, and user experience best practices. > > >How to apply: Please direct any >inquiries/resumes via Email to: Steve Sawczyn >Steve.Sawczyn at target.com . > > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 14:41:36 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:41:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the nabs meeting at convention this year In-Reply-To: <9407989491A643ABAEB9DAA4752F2206@AudioAccessFM> References: <9407989491A643ABAEB9DAA4752F2206@AudioAccessFM> Message-ID: <828592FFC79540A98DBD723D72351290@OwnerPC> Hi, I do hope someone recorded it as I'd like to hear it. -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 7:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] the nabs meeting at convention this year Hi There! I know that there is someone on here, Peter I think his name is, who does some recording of convention events. Peter if you're on this list or if anyone on here knows someone who can record the nabs business meeting, get in touch with me via twitter at djdrocks or email at\ daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com This way, I can put the nabs meeting up on the site, give the person who recorded it a thank you of course, but this way, even though I personally couldn't be there to record it due to a last minute situation that prevented me from coming, I can still provide the audio content for the nabslink audio portion of the nabs page. Thanks much. >From David _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 15:00:45 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:00:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Indepencence Day In-Reply-To: <4ff1d8ba.032f650a.38e9.6eb9@mx.google.com> References: <4ff1d8ba.032f650a.38e9.6eb9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Actually its on july 4, but I second your wishes. Hope everyone has a happy and safe celebration. However, on the east coast such as Virginia, Maryland, and Ohio, we have major power outages and high heat so some celebrations are cancelled. I'll plan to go to fireworks provided that they have them here. Oh, and I suggest you all also read the founding documents of our country. It’s a great reminder to see what our founding fathers said and believed. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Roanna Baccchus Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:21 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Indepencence Day Hello everyone just wanted to wish you all a Happy Independence Day. This is a day to celebrate America's independence and we should be proud to be Americans. To our men and women in the Armed Forces thank you for all you do. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 15:02:04 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:02:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] introducing Myself In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B21@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B21@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <13CC4AAA75894B4598BB72C498718088@OwnerPC> yes, good TVIs know some about subjects in the classroom. This really helped me so my tvi could reinforce math concepts when I struggled with that in math class. -----Original Message----- From: Wasif, Zunaira Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] introducing Myself We do need good TVIs. Some of the TVIs I know from working in this field are completely unacquainted with the material being taught in the classroom. They know about large print and magnification, but they are unable to actually provide instruction in any classroom topics. Most of them should be referred to as learning specialists or something, not teachers. This doesn't mean, however, that there aren't amazing TVIs out there. I have come across 1 or two outstanding TVIs. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] introducing Myself Hello Rilie! Wow, we need good TVIs! Are you wanting to specialize in one area, or just be a full TVI? Does secondary English education talk about people learning things in their second language? Like if I'm Italian or German going to school in China? Or is it something totally different? I've never heard of that major before... Thanks and so nice to hear from another person! And especially one going to Dallas! Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Rylie Robinson Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 2:31 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] introducing Myself Hello all, I don't really know how these introduction processes work on lists, but I just wanted to drop in and say hello to everyone. I've been on the list for a long time, but I finally changed my EMail over to a client that I actually enjoy using. So, hopefully, more posting from me will follow. My name is Rylie, a 20-year-old college student attending Indiana university Purdue University Indianapolis. Right now I'm studying Secondary English education. I hope after I acquire this degree to earn a certification in teacher of blind students and teach Braille in a public school setting. I have been involved in the nFB for a while, and I know, or know of quite a few of the Nabs members, and this seemed like one of the best ways to stay involved, especially with convention coming right around the corner. I hope to get to know some of you more and to be able to see some of you in Dallas. Blessings to all, Rylie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From opensesame at me.com Wed Jul 4 00:50:38 2012 From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 20:50:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking thoughts regarding Venn Diagrams Message-ID: <5A8C2967-6DA8-4D19-9EEF-8552AC669E90@me.com> Hi Folks, I've just started a class in Logic and we will apparently be making extensive use of Venn diagrams. I've located the NCAM STEM recommendations for these, but would be interested in hearing from anybody who has had experience reading, creating, manipulating & generally interacting with Venn diagrams. TIA< Bryan From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 02:48:07 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:48:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking thoughts regarding Venn Diagrams In-Reply-To: <5A8C2967-6DA8-4D19-9EEF-8552AC669E90@me.com> References: <5A8C2967-6DA8-4D19-9EEF-8552AC669E90@me.com> Message-ID: <001b01cd598f$71d23790$5576a6b0$@gmail.com> Hi Bryan, I have usually made my venn diagrams on my BrailleNote or on a Perkins Brailler. If I'm doing it on my BrailleNote, as you could do on a notetaker or a computer, I will start my document by setting up the "columns" for the diagram. I do this by writing the name of the first column's heading, then do two new lines, then write the heading for the next column and so on. After I've made my columns, I'll just put my cursor at the end of each heading, put a colon, and list the items that would go under that column. On a Perkins Brailler, I usually set up what looks like a chart or table. I'll write the headings of the columns across the top of the page, leaving a few spaces between them. I'll then line up the embossing head with whatever column I want to write under, and list the things that would go in that column in a descending column. If this doesn't make sense or you have any questions, please let me know. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Jones Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 8:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking thoughts regarding Venn Diagrams Hi Folks, I've just started a class in Logic and we will apparently be making extensive use of Venn diagrams. I've located the NCAM STEM recommendations for these, but would be interested in hearing from anybody who has had experience reading, creating, manipulating & generally interacting with Venn diagrams. TIA< Bryan _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Jul 4 11:26:43 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (Wmodnl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 07:26:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Indepencence Day In-Reply-To: References: <4ff1d8ba.032f650a.38e9.6eb9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good morning all, In her defense, she may not have been able to get to a computer this morning. Your email message is truly appreciated and thoughtful. Best wishes, William All I "see" are limitless possibilities. William O'Donnell, Distributor Organo Gold Enterprises, INC www.willsholistics.organogold.com Sent from my iPad On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:00 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Actually its on july 4, but I second your wishes. Hope everyone has a happy and safe celebration. > However, on the east coast such as Virginia, Maryland, and Ohio, we have major power outages and high heat so some celebrations are cancelled. I'll plan to go to fireworks provided that they have them here. > Oh, and I suggest you all also read the founding documents of our country. It’s a great reminder to see what our founding fathers said and believed. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Roanna Baccchus > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:21 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Indepencence Day > > Hello everyone just wanted to wish you all a Happy Independence > Day. This is a day to celebrate America's independence and we > should be proud to be Americans. To our men and women in the > Armed Forces thank you for all you do. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 17:12:47 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 13:12:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Receiving Email Updates From Perkins Message-ID: <4ff4799d.092b650a.2254.161c@mx.google.com> I would like to receive email updates from the Perkins School For The Blind. Is there any way I can do this? From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 4 17:29:55 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:29:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [Sfl-announce] Announcing the 2013 Ski for Light International Week Message-ID: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Deb W >To: sfl-announce at sfl.org >Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 1:14 PM >Subject: [Sfl-announce] Announcing the 2013 Ski for Light International Week > > > Heat Got You Down? > >Then Stop! > >Consider for a moment: You are gliding in deep tracks on a >crystalline snow packed ski trail with the cool crisp air in your >face. Sound good? > > > >If so, the 38th annual Ski for Light International Week scheduled to >be held from Sunday evening, January 27 through Sunday morning, >February 3, 2013 might just b your ticket to relief . > > > >The event will take place at the Shanty Creek Resort in Bellaire >Michigan. This venue is a new site for SFL and offers many >amenities including a 30 kilometer cross-country trail system, two >downhill ski mountains, a terrain park, a tubing hill, snowshoe >trails, outdoor and indoor swimming pools and hot-tubs, a fitness >center, steam room, sauna and full-service spa and much more. The >ski area is only a short shuttle ride from the Lakeview Hotel and >Conference Center where we will be staying. Shanty Creek is rated >as the best outdoor family recreation resort in the Midwest. > > > >Interested? > > > > For additional information and easy to complete online > applications, go to: www.sfl.org. Please read > the online info to learn the details of two features that are new > for SFL 2013. These are an Early Bird Special for guides, and Early > Admission for VIPs and MIPs. > > > >Hope to see you there! > > > >Stay cool, think snow and Glide on! > > > >Deb Wiese > >Ski for Light 2013 Event Chair From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 4 18:29:33 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 13:29:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: We are now accepting enrollment for August 6 Certification Course Message-ID: > >We're now accepting enrollment for the August 6, trainer Certification >course at Access Technology Institute. This is a comprehensive 11-month >course that immerses you into a number of applications and discusses how to >teach these applications to blind consumers. We concentrate on teaching >concepts and the keystrokes are provided in the context of the concepts of >Windows and Windows Applications. > > > >Upon graduation, all graduates in good standing receive ongoing training for >life at no additional charge. For more information, please visit: >http://www.blindtraining.com/certification/ or contact me. > > > >CathyAnne > > > >CathyAnne Murtha > >Director > >Access Technology Institute > >cathy at blindtraining.com > >www.twitter.com/CathyAnneMurtha > >www.blindtraining.com > >Phone: (520) 303-5885 > >FAX: (800) 986-6198 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 22:45:19 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:45:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] show case of talent Message-ID: <45B224153A2E4985BB880F61FF9A246B@OwnerPC> Hi all, I’m sure the showcase of talent is fun and entertaining. Is it recorded for online access or streamed live? If anyone checks email at convention and goes to it, have fun! Ashley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 22:47:13 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:47:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting Message-ID: Hi all, Is the nabs meeting going to be recorded and posted on the website? Thanks. From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Jul 5 03:41:15 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:41:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting References: Message-ID: <6BD841663E9A48E68D5141B62B2864BE@valuedcf71de43> Hello Ashley and everyone, No. Plan to be in Orlando next year. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting > Hi all, > Is the nabs meeting going to be recorded and posted on the website? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 04:46:30 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:46:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting In-Reply-To: <6BD841663E9A48E68D5141B62B2864BE@valuedcf71de43> References: <6BD841663E9A48E68D5141B62B2864BE@valuedcf71de43> Message-ID: good to know anyway. I guess there were issues recording it this year. past meetings were recorded and I found them beneficial. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs meeting Hello Ashley and everyone, No. Plan to be in Orlando next year. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting > Hi all, > Is the nabs meeting going to be recorded and posted on the website? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri Jul 6 04:12:04 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:12:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting References: <6BD841663E9A48E68D5141B62B2864BE@valuedcf71de43> Message-ID: Hello Ashley and everyone, Remember that listening to convention recordings only gives you half the experience. It's the total immersion experience of attending in person that allows you to derive the maximum benefit to activities that occur during the national convention. See you in Orlando next year. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs meeting > good to know anyway. I guess there were issues recording it this year. > past meetings were recorded and I found them beneficial. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Donahue > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs meeting > > Hello Ashley and everyone, > > No. Plan to be in Orlando next year. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:47 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting > > >> Hi all, >> Is the nabs meeting going to be recorded and posted on the website? >> >> Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 04:49:49 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 23:49:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting Message-ID: <4ff66e72.0863650a.66fa.1e3e@mx.google.com> Dear Peter and Everyone, I understand what you're saying. This was my first time at Convention, and I absolutely loved it!!!! But sometimes, things conflict, and people can't make it to convention for one personal reason or another. In cases like these, it is nice to have the meeting recorded online. Best wishes, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" References: <6BD841663E9A48E68D5141B62B2864BE@valuedcf71de43> Message-ID: Hi all I Was @ Covention however it would be great to relisten to it. Deb On Jul 5, 2012 10:13 PM, "Peter Donahue" wrote: > Hello Ashley and everyone, > > Remember that listening to convention recordings only gives you half > the experience. It's the total immersion experience of attending in person > that allows you to derive the maximum benefit to activities that occur > during the national convention. See you in Orlando next year. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs meeting > > > good to know anyway. I guess there were issues recording it this year. >> past meetings were recorded and I found them beneficial. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Donahue >> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs meeting >> >> Hello Ashley and everyone, >> >> No. Plan to be in Orlando next year. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < >> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:47 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] nabs meeting >> >> >> Hi all, >>> Is the nabs meeting going to be recorded and posted on the website? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 18:59:16 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:59:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [talkshopchatters] links to accessible games In-Reply-To: <09AC78FBC5764C1197FAF96EB195DE62@acer6e395d0925> References: <09AC78FBC5764C1197FAF96EB195DE62@acer6e395d0925> Message-ID: <001301cd5ba9$71cc56b0$55650410$@gmail.com> Hi everyone, Here is a resource for accessible games which you may find useful: From: talkshopchatters at yahoogroups.com [mailto:talkshopchatters at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Fain Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 4:07 PM To: talkshopchatters at yahoogroups.com Subject: [talkshopchatters] links to accessible games Hi all. here is the link to a web page developped byt Scott, one our our callers. this contains numerous links to accessible gtames. I have looked at it and it is full of places to go for games. Enjoy. http://drpc.dynip.com/drpc_files/bg.htm __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Description: Image removed by sender. Yahoo! Groups Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use . Description: Image removed by sender. __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 359 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anjehlessa at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 02:20:26 2012 From: anjehlessa at gmail.com (Rylie Robinson) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:20:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking thoughts regarding Venn Diagrams In-Reply-To: <001b01cd598f$71d23790$5576a6b0$@gmail.com> References: <5A8C2967-6DA8-4D19-9EEF-8552AC669E90@me.com> <001b01cd598f$71d23790$5576a6b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Bryan, I took a logic class last Fall, and we also used these diagrams quite extensively. My teacher was very willing to work with me one on one, and he helped to draw out, with glue, tactile versions of the diagrams so that I could visualize them. I did ok on the really simple ones, without a tactile visualization, but once we got in to ones with three overlapping circles, that's when I actually needed to look at it. See if you can find any way to tactilly represent these: you could use a Braille compass to draw the circles, wicky-sticks, glue, or any other means of making tactile circles that can be felt. Hopefully your teacher will be as accomidating as mine was; that's what really helped me to get through that part of the class. Hope this helps somewhat, and good luck in your logic class! Blessings, Rylie On 7/3/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > I have usually made my venn diagrams on my BrailleNote or on a Perkins > Brailler. If I'm doing it on my BrailleNote, as you could do on a notetaker > or a computer, I will start my document by setting up the "columns" for the > diagram. I do this by writing the name of the first column's heading, then > do two new lines, then write the heading for the next column and so on. > After I've made my columns, I'll just put my cursor at the end of each > heading, put a colon, and list the items that would go under that column. > On > a Perkins Brailler, I usually set up what looks like a chart or table. I'll > write the headings of the columns across the top of the page, leaving a few > spaces between them. I'll then line up the embossing head with whatever > column I want to write under, and list the things that would go in that > column in a descending column. If this doesn't make sense or you have any > questions, please let me know. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Bryan Jones > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 8:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking thoughts regarding Venn Diagrams > > Hi Folks, > > I've just started a class in Logic and we will apparently be making > extensive use of Venn diagrams. I've located the NCAM STEM recommendations > for these, but would be interested in hearing from anybody who has had > experience reading, creating, manipulating & generally interacting with > Venn > diagrams. > > TIA< > Bryan > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjehlessa%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 7 07:48:25 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:48:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] introducing Myself In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey! Welcome to the list, Rylie! It was nice to meet you at convention! Blessings, Joshua On 6/28/12, Rylie Robinson wrote: > Hello all, > > I don't really know how these introduction processes work on lists, > but I just wanted to drop in and say hello to everyone. I've been on > the list for a long time, but I finally changed my EMail over to a > client that I actually enjoy using. So, hopefully, more posting from > me will follow. > > My name is Rylie, a 20-year-old college student attending Indiana > university Purdue University Indianapolis. Right now I'm studying > Secondary English education. I hope after I acquire this degree to > earn a certification in teacher of blind students and teach Braille in > a public school setting. > > I have been involved in the nFB for a while, and I know, or know of > quite a few of the Nabs members, and this seemed like one of the best > ways to stay involved, especially with convention coming right around > the corner. I hope to get to know some of you more and to be able to > see some of you in Dallas. > > Blessings to all, > Rylie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 7 07:51:15 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:51:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] show case of talent In-Reply-To: <45B224153A2E4985BB880F61FF9A246B@OwnerPC> References: <45B224153A2E4985BB880F61FF9A246B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, Ashley! Noone recorded it, because Dunphy wasn't able to make it. Kevin Reeves tried to record it, but his recording device stopped working. Blessings, Joshua On 7/4/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I’m sure the showcase of talent is fun and entertaining. Is it recorded for > online access or streamed live? > If anyone checks email at convention and goes to it, have fun! > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 04:11:41 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:11:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters Message-ID: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com> Hi, As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and I am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd combo. The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's a way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can just step up onto it. Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously need it to be as accurate as possible. Thanks in advance for the feedback. From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Sun Jul 8 04:20:03 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:20:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters References: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Valerie and everyone, There's a tried and true method of weighing animals without having to buy a special scale particularly if you're only going to weigh a few species such as your parrot. First weigh yourself. Next step on the scale with the parrot purched on your arm, your head, or where he/she likes to rest on you. Once a reading is obtained subtract your own weight from that of yourself on the scale with the parrot. This will give you the bird's weight. When we raised Boxer Dogs dad used to weigh the puppies that way. I've also seen vets use this method when weighing some of my guide dogs. Since most of them see large numbers of animals they have special scales for weighing them. Hope this helps. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:11 PM Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters Hi, As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and I am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd combo. The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's a way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can just step up onto it. Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously need it to be as accurate as possible. Thanks in advance for the feedback. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 04:45:47 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:45:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters In-Reply-To: <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com> <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <51389F21-C20F-4BE1-91EA-C307A3FDABBD@gmail.com> Hi, I thought of that. the only thing is: I don't nkow how accurate that would be if i had a bird that ways less than a pound. I think my bird though weighs in the 500 grmas range…don't quote me on that. Also, I would need the scale to weigh food portions. I could measure them, sure, but i think the weight would give me more of the information i'm looking for, especially if i'm making food combos like vegies and pellets. Thanks for your feedback. :) On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:20 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Valerie and everyone, > > There's a tried and true method of weighing animals without having to > buy a special scale particularly if you're only going to weigh a few species > such as your parrot. First weigh yourself. Next step on the scale with the > parrot purched on your arm, your head, or where he/she likes to rest on you. > Once a reading is obtained subtract your own weight from that of yourself on > the scale with the parrot. This will give you the bird's weight. > > When we raised Boxer Dogs dad used to weigh the puppies that way. I've > also seen vets use this method when weighing some of my guide dogs. Since > most of them see large numbers of animals they have special scales for > weighing them. Hope this helps. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Valerie Gibson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:11 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters > > > Hi, > > As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and I > am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd > combo. > > The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my > parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's a > way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be > weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can just > step up onto it. > > Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact > that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously > need it to be as accurate as possible. > > Thanks in advance for the feedback. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 04:54:02 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:54:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters In-Reply-To: <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com> <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <9DA47F6F-962A-469E-9289-D19D5A60878A@gmail.com> Sorry for the double reply, but, just another reason why i could not use that method. After looking it up online, because i'm too tired and lazy to do the math myself: Answer: 575 g = 1.26765 lb OR 1 lb and 4.28 oz I could just say, the parrot weighs one pound, but when you're dealing with an animal that small, those numbers after the decimal make all the diference. That's yet another reason i would need to measure food that way. I want to know EXACTLY how much the bird is eating on a daily basis, so that i can adjust his training feeding schedule so that he's not overfed. Once i have that down to the weight, i can then measure it out. Sounds tedious, i know. but it would be hard to measure if my bird eats…not quite a cup, but not quite 3/4 cups either. lol On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:20 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Valerie and everyone, > > There's a tried and true method of weighing animals without having to > buy a special scale particularly if you're only going to weigh a few species > such as your parrot. First weigh yourself. Next step on the scale with the > parrot purched on your arm, your head, or where he/she likes to rest on you. > Once a reading is obtained subtract your own weight from that of yourself on > the scale with the parrot. This will give you the bird's weight. > > When we raised Boxer Dogs dad used to weigh the puppies that way. I've > also seen vets use this method when weighing some of my guide dogs. Since > most of them see large numbers of animals they have special scales for > weighing them. Hope this helps. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Valerie Gibson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:11 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters > > > Hi, > > As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and I > am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd > combo. > > The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my > parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's a > way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be > weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can just > step up onto it. > > Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact > that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously > need it to be as accurate as possible. > > Thanks in advance for the feedback. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 05:17:40 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 22:17:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters In-Reply-To: <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com> <001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <419C8C95F8DE4DAAB96C49CCBB1CAB21@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, If you have small birds, use a kitchen scale with a perch on it. If your bird is larger and ways more than a pound, use the scale method. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Peter Donahue Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 9:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters Hello Valerie and everyone, There's a tried and true method of weighing animals without having to buy a special scale particularly if you're only going to weigh a few species such as your parrot. First weigh yourself. Next step on the scale with the parrot purched on your arm, your head, or where he/she likes to rest on you. Once a reading is obtained subtract your own weight from that of yourself on the scale with the parrot. This will give you the bird's weight. When we raised Boxer Dogs dad used to weigh the puppies that way. I've also seen vets use this method when weighing some of my guide dogs. Since most of them see large numbers of animals they have special scales for weighing them. Hope this helps. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:11 PM Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters Hi, As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and I am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd combo. The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's a way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can just step up onto it. Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously need it to be as accurate as possible. Thanks in advance for the feedback. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 05:25:15 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:25:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Help Needed with Compiling Statistics Reference Guide Message-ID: Hello all, While I was at this year's NFB convention in Dallas, I met with a couple other NABS members and we would like to begin the process of starting an NFB interest group for blind social scientists and researchers. A goal of this group is to make statistics and data analysis more accessible and friendly to the blind. Toward this end, I will be compiling an electronic resource for blind students taking statistics courses, as well as blind researchers who conduct data analysis as part of their jobs. As you know, questions often come up on this list about how to access a statistics course or how to use specific software applications, and I would like to bring the answers to these questions into one place that's readily available to students and researchers. Once the guide is completed, I intend to share it with this list and with the NABS board so it can be disseminated to as many students as possible. To create this reference guide, I will be compiling articles that explain how to conduct the most common statistical tests using various software applications and screen readers. Specifically, I am looking for contributions from anyone who has successfully used SPSS, R, or Stata with JAWS; as well as anyone who has successfully analyzed data using VoiceOver, NVDA, or System Access screen readers. In your article, it would be most helpful if you can describe any workarounds you used to make the program accessible, such as importing data from Excel; whether you used menus within the program or typed in syntax; and if you used syntax, please give a few examples of syntax you used. Feel free to send me your article in bullet-point form and I will turn it into a full-length article, or give me the information over the phone by calling 602-502-2255 My goal is to complete this project before I go back to school (and start my own stats course) on August 27, so please send me your contributions by August 15. My email is arielle71 at gmail.com Thank you in advance for your assistance. Best, Arielle From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 05:29:24 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 22:29:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters In-Reply-To: <9DA47F6F-962A-469E-9289-D19D5A60878A@gmail.com> References: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com><001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <9DA47F6F-962A-469E-9289-D19D5A60878A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01DD3B09B52F48E8AC67EB9DE67D9D09@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, You can glue a crafting dowel to the plastic of the scale. You can also punch holes in the scale on either side of the dowel and put zip ties around it. Of course make sure you get the weight of the contraption before you put your bird on the scale. BTW, child psych and animal science complement each other very nicely. There are dogs that go into hospitals to see children, there are therapy animals that work with children, there are animal roll mottles and all kinds of ways those two majors can work together. It's like Music and child psych, education and child psych, or what ever. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 9:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters Sorry for the double reply, but, just another reason why i could not use that method. After looking it up online, because i'm too tired and lazy to do the math myself: Answer: 575 g = 1.26765 lb OR 1 lb and 4.28 oz I could just say, the parrot weighs one pound, but when you're dealing with an animal that small, those numbers after the decimal make all the diference. That's yet another reason i would need to measure food that way. I want to know EXACTLY how much the bird is eating on a daily basis, so that i can adjust his training feeding schedule so that he's not overfed. Once i have that down to the weight, i can then measure it out. Sounds tedious, i know. but it would be hard to measure if my bird eats…not quite a cup, but not quite 3/4 cups either. lol On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:20 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Valerie and everyone, > > There's a tried and true method of weighing animals without having to > buy a special scale particularly if you're only going to weigh a few > species > such as your parrot. First weigh yourself. Next step on the scale with the > parrot purched on your arm, your head, or where he/she likes to rest on > you. > Once a reading is obtained subtract your own weight from that of yourself > on > the scale with the parrot. This will give you the bird's weight. > > When we raised Boxer Dogs dad used to weigh the puppies that way. I've > also seen vets use this method when weighing some of my guide dogs. Since > most of them see large numbers of animals they have special scales for > weighing them. Hope this helps. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Valerie Gibson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:11 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters > > > Hi, > > As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and > I > am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd > combo. > > The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my > parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's > a > way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be > weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can > just > step up onto it. > > Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact > that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously > need it to be as accurate as possible. > > Thanks in advance for the feedback. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 16:04:22 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 11:04:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters In-Reply-To: <01DD3B09B52F48E8AC67EB9DE67D9D09@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <25113D64-5030-4A75-8A8D-48E74133F4A2@gmail.com><001d01cd5cc0$f2cf98e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <9DA47F6F-962A-469E-9289-D19D5A60878A@gmail.com> <01DD3B09B52F48E8AC67EB9DE67D9D09@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <37B204B3-B874-4D3F-9CD1-35161025F791@gmail.com> Hi brandon and All, I love your creativeness, Brandon. I ran across a kitchen scale last night after i was finished posting. but i would never have thought of the perch idea. Awesome! I think that will do nicely. As for the two carreer choices: I do see the connection in child psych and animal training, but you'd be surprised at how many people don't. Another thing is when i read books on animal training, and when i read books on child psych, the same termonology is used, and the methods, with a few alterations (extra play time, rather than treats for example) are similar. Again, thank you so much for the feedback. I am now officially excited. :) On Jul 8, 2012, at 12:29 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > You can glue a crafting dowel to the plastic of the scale. You can also punch holes in the scale on either side of the dowel and put zip ties around it. > > Of course make sure you get the weight of the contraption before you put your bird on the scale. > > BTW, child psych and animal science complement each other very nicely. There are dogs that go into hospitals to see children, there are therapy animals that work with children, there are animal roll mottles and all kinds of ways those two majors can work together. It's like Music and child psych, education and child psych, or what ever. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Valerie Gibson > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 9:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters > > Sorry for the double reply, but, just another reason why i could not use that method. After looking it up online, because i'm too tired and lazy to do the math myself: > Answer: 575 g = 1.26765 lb OR 1 lb and 4.28 oz > > I could just say, the parrot weighs one pound, but when you're dealing with an animal that small, those numbers after the decimal make all the diference. That's yet another reason i would need to measure food that way. I want to know EXACTLY how much the bird is eating on a daily basis, so that i can adjust his training feeding schedule so that he's not overfed. Once i have that down to the weight, i can then measure it out. Sounds tedious, i know. but it would be hard to measure if my bird eats…not quite a cup, but not quite 3/4 cups either. lol > > On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:20 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: > >> Hello Valerie and everyone, >> >> There's a tried and true method of weighing animals without having to >> buy a special scale particularly if you're only going to weigh a few species >> such as your parrot. First weigh yourself. Next step on the scale with the >> parrot purched on your arm, your head, or where he/she likes to rest on you. >> Once a reading is obtained subtract your own weight from that of yourself on >> the scale with the parrot. This will give you the bird's weight. >> >> When we raised Boxer Dogs dad used to weigh the puppies that way. I've >> also seen vets use this method when weighing some of my guide dogs. Since >> most of them see large numbers of animals they have special scales for >> weighing them. Hope this helps. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:11 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] question for the creative and science-loving nabsters >> >> >> Hi, >> >> As some of you probably know, training animals is a big hobby of mine, and I >> am hoping to make that a carreer, along with child psych. yes i know, odd >> combo. >> >> The problem i have found myself in is that i need to be able to weigh my >> parrot, and I need an accessible scale that measures in grams. If there's a >> way i can attach a perch to it so my parrot can step onto the perch to be >> weighed, that would be awesome. if not, preferably a scale where he can just >> step up onto it. >> >> Does anyone have any ideas on where to find such a scale. Due to the fact >> that i will be using it for a parrot's health reasons, i would obviously >> need it to be as accurate as possible. >> >> Thanks in advance for the feedback. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 8 18:30:35 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:30:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues Message-ID: First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? Thanks, Joshua From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 20:38:11 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 16:38:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Specifics would assist us here. What, exactly, do you mean by not work right? On 7/8/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! > I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. > My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his > students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. > The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. > Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 8 20:43:01 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:43:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: His students can read the Bookshare books on the Braille Note Apex, but he can't get the Daisy books to where they can read them. Why is this? Thanks, Joshua On 7/8/12, josh gregory wrote: > Specifics would assist us here. What, exactly, do you mean by not work > right? > > On 7/8/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! >> I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. >> My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his >> students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. >> The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. >> Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Jul 9 01:41:19 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 20:41:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Help Needed with Compiling Statistics Reference Guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arielle: You probably know this, but statistics etc. have been taken up on our blindmath and nfb-science lists in the past. If you choose the 2nd link at nfbnet.org you can search all lists, or choose first link, then individual list, then archives, to bring up search page for that list. Dave At 12:25 AM 7/8/2012, you wrote: >Hello all, >While I was at this year's NFB convention in Dallas, I met with a >couple other NABS members and we would like to begin the process of >starting an NFB interest group for blind social scientists and >researchers. A goal of this group is to make statistics and data >analysis more accessible and friendly to the blind. Toward this end, I >will be compiling an electronic resource for blind students taking >statistics courses, as well as blind researchers who conduct data >analysis as part of their jobs. As you know, questions often come up >on this list about how to access a statistics course or how to use >specific software applications, and I would like to bring the answers >to these questions into one place that's readily available to students >and researchers. Once the guide is completed, I intend to share it >with this list and with the NABS board so it can be disseminated to as >many students as possible. >To create this reference guide, I will be compiling articles that >explain how to conduct the most common statistical tests using various >software applications and screen readers. Specifically, I am looking >for contributions from anyone who has successfully used SPSS, R, or >Stata with JAWS; as well as anyone who has successfully analyzed data >using VoiceOver, NVDA, or System Access screen readers. >In your article, it would be most helpful if you can describe any >workarounds you used to make the program accessible, such as importing >data from Excel; whether you used menus within the program or typed in >syntax; and if you used syntax, please give a few examples of syntax >you used. >Feel free to send me your article in bullet-point form and I will turn >it into a full-length article, or give me the information over the >phone by calling >602-502-2255 > >My goal is to complete this project before I go back to school (and >start my own stats course) on August 27, so please send me your >contributions by August 15. My email is >arielle71 at gmail.com > >Thank you in advance for your assistance. >Best, >Arielle From dandrews at visi.com Mon Jul 9 01:44:12 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 20:44:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, what is source of books, what version of daisy standard, etc. Dave At 03:38 PM 7/8/2012, you wrote: >Specifics would assist us here. What, exactly, do you mean by not work right? > >On 7/8/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! > > I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. > > My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his > > students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. > > The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. > > Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? > > Thanks, Joshua From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 01:52:13 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 21:52:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003201cd5d75$76de4f50$649aedf0$@gmail.com> Hi Joshua, To clarify, I saw your response to Josh Gregory's email, and am using the information from that email to write this one. When a DAISY book is downloaded from Bookshare, as is the case with any other Bookshare book, it is compressed into a ZIP file. This means that in order for your TVI to get the books into a format in which his students can read them, he has to first extract the ZIP file. He can either do this on a PC using the built-in extracter tool in Windows, or he can do it on the BrailleNote (this only works on an Apex) by doing the following: 1. From the main menu, press f for file manager. 2. Press u for unzip file. 3. Select the file you want to unzip from the list of files using the standard procedure for selecting files. 4. The BrailleNote will prompt "Folder for unpacking this archive?" Select the folder you want the extracted file to be in. 5. The BrailleNote will extract the file and place you back in the file manager. Once the book is extracted, you have to open the book from the book reader, not the word processor. If it works right, when you select the book, it should say "loading book" then beep. For more information, I would refer you and/or your TVI to Mayson Cabo's podcast on downloading and reading Daisy books from Bookshare on the BrailleNote Apex, which you can find at www.braillenoteusers.info/media. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 2:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 02:00:40 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 22:00:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003b01cd5d76$a4df3cb0$ee9db610$@gmail.com> Hi Dave, The source of the books is Bookshare. I don't know about Daisy Standard; in fact, I've never heard of it. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues Also, what is source of books, what version of daisy standard, etc. Dave At 03:38 PM 7/8/2012, you wrote: >Specifics would assist us here. What, exactly, do you mean by not work right? > >On 7/8/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! > > I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. > > My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his > > students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. > > The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. > > Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? > > Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu Mon Jul 9 02:25:49 2012 From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 02:25:49 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Grant Writing Workshop at Convention Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158D49F2@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Dear List, I wanted to attend the grant writing workshop on Tuesday night at convention but was unable, and I am wondering if anyone recorded it. I have contacted Seth Lamkin, who led it, and he did not. If you did record it, I would love to be able to listen to it. Please contact me directly (not on the listserv) if you can help me. Thanks in advance! Justin Salisbury Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 04:24:28 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:24:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues Message-ID: <4ffa5d05.89afec0a.57b6.3530@mx.google.com> Couldn't you just go into the book reader and unpack the file that way? That's how it works with BRF files downloaded from Bookshare, but I've never worked with Daisy, so don't hold me to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" References: <4ffa5d05.89afec0a.57b6.3530@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000601cd5df0$09514e30$1bf3ea90$@gmail.com> Hi Sophie, I think it has to be done through the file manager on the Apex, but don't hold me to that. I use the file manager to unzip both BRF and Daisy books from Bookshare on my Apex. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:24 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues Couldn't you just go into the book reader and unpack the file that way? That's how it works with BRF files downloaded from Bookshare, but I've never worked with Daisy, so don't hold me to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" This is a message for all the students. Can each of you write me an article about a school day and a holiday in your lives? I'm interested in knowing how blind people live in other parts of the world. When I receive your email I'll respond with an article about a day in my life. From dandrews at visi.com Mon Jul 9 18:12:25 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:12:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: <003b01cd5d76$a4df3cb0$ee9db610$@gmail.com> References: <003b01cd5d76$a4df3cb0$ee9db610$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, NLS digital books, Learning Ally books, and Bookshare books that aren't .BRF books are all done in the DAISY standard. Dave At 09:00 PM 7/8/2012, you wrote: >Hi Dave, > >The source of the books is Bookshare. I don't know about Daisy Standard; in >fact, I've never heard of it. > >Chris > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of David Andrews >Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:44 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues > >Also, what is source of books, what version of daisy standard, etc. > >Dave > >At 03:38 PM 7/8/2012, you wrote: > >Specifics would assist us here. What, exactly, do you mean by not work >right? > > > >On 7/8/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > > First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! > > > I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. > > > My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his > > > students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. > > > The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. > > > Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? > > > Thanks, Joshua From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 19:02:20 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:02:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sean Walen Message-ID: Hi would President Sean please contact me off list? Thank You! Deb Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 20:19:06 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:19:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Another Message For The Students Message-ID: <4ffb3cd2.e689ec0a.3666.fffff3e6@mx.google.com> This is regarding the earlier message that I sent. Please email the articles to me offlist. From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 20:21:24 2012 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 16:21:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New NABS Board Message-ID: <020101cd5e10$6a32bc50$3e9834f0$@gmail.com> Good afternoon, Thank you to the many of you on this list who attend the NABS annual meeting last Sunday. It was a successful meeting, and we are all grateful for your being a part of it! I wanted to write to inform you all that we have elected two new members to the NABS board for 2012 - 2014. Congratulations to Gabe Cazares of Texas and Justin Salisbury of Connecticut for being elected to the positions of Board Member 2 and Board Member 4, respectively. We all look forward to working with Gabe and Justin, as well as all of you, over the coming two years. We also thank Domonique Lawless and Meghan Whalen for their service on the board over the last term. They will be missed. At this year's meeting Sean Whalen, Darian Smith and Cindy Bennett were reelected to the positions of President, Second Vice President and Secretary. The full list of NABS board members is as follows: President - Sean Whalen, Virginia Vice President - Karen Anderson, Nebraska Second Vice President - Darian Smith, California Treasurer - Shelby Ball, Georgia Secretary - Cindy Bennett, Washington Board Member 1 - Candice Chapman, Mississippi Board Member 2 - Gabe Cazares, Texas Board Member 3 - Briley Pollard, Virginia Board Member 4 - Justin Salisbury, Connecticut/North Carolina Contact info for our new board members, as well as realigned regional liaisons, will be listed on our website in the coming days, so look for an email about that. Also, stay tuned to your inboxes for opportunities to join NABS in carrying out the work we do on behalf of blind students! Please do not hesitate to contact me, or any member of the board, with questions, comments, concerns or suggestions. Many thanks, Sean Sean Whalen President, National Association of Blind Students (608) 332-4147 Nabs.president at gmail.com www.nabslink.org From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 22:20:06 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:20:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New NABS Board In-Reply-To: <020101cd5e10$6a32bc50$3e9834f0$@gmail.com> References: <020101cd5e10$6a32bc50$3e9834f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003a01cd5e21$05df62b0$119e2810$@gmail.com> Hi Justin and Gabe, Congratulations on being elected to the NABS board! You are definitely great people for these positions, and I look forward to your contributions as a NABS board member to the work we do for blind students! Again, congratulations on your election! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of nabs.president at gmail.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:21 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] New NABS Board Good afternoon, Thank you to the many of you on this list who attend the NABS annual meeting last Sunday. It was a successful meeting, and we are all grateful for your being a part of it! I wanted to write to inform you all that we have elected two new members to the NABS board for 2012 - 2014. Congratulations to Gabe Cazares of Texas and Justin Salisbury of Connecticut for being elected to the positions of Board Member 2 and Board Member 4, respectively. We all look forward to working with Gabe and Justin, as well as all of you, over the coming two years. We also thank Domonique Lawless and Meghan Whalen for their service on the board over the last term. They will be missed. At this year's meeting Sean Whalen, Darian Smith and Cindy Bennett were reelected to the positions of President, Second Vice President and Secretary. The full list of NABS board members is as follows: President - Sean Whalen, Virginia Vice President - Karen Anderson, Nebraska Second Vice President - Darian Smith, California Treasurer - Shelby Ball, Georgia Secretary - Cindy Bennett, Washington Board Member 1 - Candice Chapman, Mississippi Board Member 2 - Gabe Cazares, Texas Board Member 3 - Briley Pollard, Virginia Board Member 4 - Justin Salisbury, Connecticut/North Carolina Contact info for our new board members, as well as realigned regional liaisons, will be listed on our website in the coming days, so look for an email about that. Also, stay tuned to your inboxes for opportunities to join NABS in carrying out the work we do on behalf of blind students! Please do not hesitate to contact me, or any member of the board, with questions, comments, concerns or suggestions. Many thanks, Sean Sean Whalen President, National Association of Blind Students (608) 332-4147 Nabs.president at gmail.com www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 22:31:13 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:31:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cd5d76$a4df3cb0$ee9db610$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003f01cd5e22$8fa18a40$aee49ec0$@gmail.com> Hi Dave, Ok. I still don't know what version he's using. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 2:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues Well, NLS digital books, Learning Ally books, and Bookshare books that aren't .BRF books are all done in the DAISY standard. Dave At 09:00 PM 7/8/2012, you wrote: >Hi Dave, > >The source of the books is Bookshare. I don't know about Daisy >Standard; in fact, I've never heard of it. > >Chris > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of David Andrews >Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:44 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex issues > >Also, what is source of books, what version of daisy standard, etc. > >Dave > >At 03:38 PM 7/8/2012, you wrote: > >Specifics would assist us here. What, exactly, do you mean by not > >work >right? > > > >On 7/8/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > > First of all, I got to see an Apex, and I like them! > > > I also want to buy one, but here's the issue at hand. > > > My former TVI told me that he was having problems getting his > > > students' textbooks to work on the Braille Note. > > > The Daisy books won't work right, for some reason. > > > Do any of you know how to remedy that situation? > > > Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu Mon Jul 9 23:03:29 2012 From: wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu (Grussenmeyer, William Daniel) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 23:03:29 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Message-ID: Hello To All the Students Out There, My name is Bill. I'm 32 and live in California. I've just recently become completely blind in 2009. Before that I had low vision since 2000 but it wasn't all that bad. Currently I'm a master's student in computer science at California State University at Sacramento. I started there in 2009 when I went completely blind. I was invited to the convention but I decided not to go because I'm working at a full time internship in Washington DC and its been stressful. Although judging by this email list it might have been better if I had gone. Nice to meet everyone, Bill Grussenmeyer From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 23:16:22 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 19:16:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004101cd5e28$dbc55d60$93501820$@gmail.com> Hi Bill, Welcome to the list! If you have any questions for us, please let us know! We're all here to help each other. Again, welcome! Chris Nusbaum -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Grussenmeyer, William Daniel Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:03 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Hello To All the Students Out There, My name is Bill. I'm 32 and live in California. I've just recently become completely blind in 2009. Before that I had low vision since 2000 but it wasn't all that bad. Currently I'm a master's student in computer science at California State University at Sacramento. I started there in 2009 when I went completely blind. I was invited to the convention but I decided not to go because I'm working at a full time internship in Washington DC and its been stressful. Although judging by this email list it might have been better if I had gone. Nice to meet everyone, Bill Grussenmeyer _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 17:17:48 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:17:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill Message-ID: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> Hello Bill welcome to the list. As Chris already said if you have any questions feel free to ask. Let us know if we can help you in any way. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 10 17:48:37 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:48:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill In-Reply-To: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> References: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Welcome, Bill! Also, Roanna, I didn't welcome you to the list, the first time you posted, so welcome! Blessings, Joshua On 7/10/12, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Hello Bill welcome to the list. As Chris already said if you > have any questions feel free to ask. Let us know if we can help > you in any way. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From aec732 at msn.com Wed Jul 11 01:42:18 2012 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:42:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: http://alotemizlikcim.com/efkcnsd.html?aas=lqrgji From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 01:58:20 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:58:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101cd5f08$a67dc5d0$f3795170$@gmail.com> Oh, again? More spam coming up. Dear addressbook hackers, get prepared to be sought and arrested! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Annemarie Cooke Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:42 PM To: bh856 at yahoo.com; julie at mehaignerie.net; svangulik at learningally.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; edandtriciatroike at gmail.com; lboose at up.net; garylande at comcast.net; sandymochson at yahoo.com; donotreply at loc.gov Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) http://alotemizlikcim.com/efkcnsd.html?aas=lqrgji _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 02:17:18 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 22:17:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6945C0EE252242228FE833A0EF947D82@OwnerPC> not another unknown link. Annemarie, I hope you check your computer for viruses! -----Original Message----- From: Annemarie Cooke Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:42 PM To: bh856 at yahoo.com ; julie at mehaignerie.net ; svangulik at learningally.org ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; edandtriciatroike at gmail.com ; lboose at up.net ; garylande at comcast.net ; sandymochson at yahoo.com ; donotreply at loc.gov Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) http://alotemizlikcim.com/efkcnsd.html?aas=lqrgji _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 02:20:08 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 22:20:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <002101cd5f08$a67dc5d0$f3795170$@gmail.com> References: <002101cd5f08$a67dc5d0$f3795170$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <647ED10D22934A7E8264E0E2488F43E9@OwnerPC> Humberto, Yep, unfortunately, when a worm or virus comes into a computer, it often sends messages to everyone's addressbook. So we got one as list members. -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:58 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) Oh, again? More spam coming up. Dear addressbook hackers, get prepared to be sought and arrested! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Annemarie Cooke Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:42 PM To: bh856 at yahoo.com; julie at mehaignerie.net; svangulik at learningally.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; edandtriciatroike at gmail.com; lboose at up.net; garylande at comcast.net; sandymochson at yahoo.com; donotreply at loc.gov Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) http://alotemizlikcim.com/efkcnsd.html?aas=lqrgji _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 02:31:31 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:31:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <647ED10D22934A7E8264E0E2488F43E9@OwnerPC> References: <002101cd5f08$a67dc5d0$f3795170$@gmail.com> <647ED10D22934A7E8264E0E2488F43E9@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Think the shame should go to the person who carelessly clicks on links to get these viruses on his/her computer. On Jul 10, 2012, at 9:20 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Humberto, > Yep, unfortunately, when a worm or virus comes into a computer, it often sends messages to everyone's addressbook. So we got one as list members. > > -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:58 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > Oh, again? More spam coming up. Dear addressbook hackers, get prepared to be > sought and arrested! > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Annemarie Cooke > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:42 PM > To: bh856 at yahoo.com; julie at mehaignerie.net; svangulik at learningally.org; > nabs-l at nfbnet.org; edandtriciatroike at gmail.com; lboose at up.net; > garylande at comcast.net; sandymochson at yahoo.com; donotreply at loc.gov > Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > > http://alotemizlikcim.com/efkcnsd.html?aas=lqrgji > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 17:21:49 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:21:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello everyone Message-ID: <4ffdb648.a9aaec0a.402a.ffffaaf7@mx.google.com> Hello everyone I still have not met some of you. Please email me offlist with your articles about school days and holidays so I send you emails on a monthly basis. Each time I receive an email from someone new I copy their address into my address book. Also, Anne Mare and Humberto, I checked my BrailleNote for viruses. There are no viruses on it. Thanks for reading. From wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu Wed Jul 11 17:56:43 2012 From: wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu (Grussenmeyer, William Daniel) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:56:43 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill In-Reply-To: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> References: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm stressing out studying for the GRE general test. I took it before I was blind. Now I'm taking it again because my scores expired and I want to apply to phd programs. I'm worried about getting tired out taking the test for 7 hours. The math sections are most important for me and I have to take them last in the day. Anyone taken them before and have any good advice or tips? --Bill ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Roanna Baccchus [rbacchus228 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:17 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill Hello Bill welcome to the list. As Chris already said if you have any questions feel free to ask. Let us know if we can help you in any way. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg22%40saclink.csus.edu From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 18:03:26 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:03:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill In-Reply-To: References: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Bill, Don't worry, you don't have to use the full seven hours. The extra time is given in case you need more time to communicate with a reader or to read the test in Braille, but you definitely don't need to use up all that time! I didn't. You can take the test either in Braille, large print, with a reader or in an accessible computerized format (self-voicing). I'd suggest trying to study in the same format that you'll be using to take the test. Ruth Loew from ETS is on this list and is very helpful with accommodations and preparation questions. She can be reached at rloew at ets.org Best of luck, Arielle On 7/11/12, Grussenmeyer, William Daniel wrote: > Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm stressing out studying for the GRE general > test. I took it before I was blind. Now I'm taking it again because my > scores expired and I want to apply to phd programs. > I'm worried about getting tired out taking the test for 7 hours. The math > sections are most important for me and I have to take them last in the day. > > > Anyone taken them before and have any good advice or tips? > > --Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Roanna Baccchus [rbacchus228 at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:17 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill > > Hello Bill welcome to the list. As Chris already said if you > have any questions feel free to ask. Let us know if we can help > you in any way. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg22%40saclink.csus.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From aec732 at msn.com Wed Jul 11 18:03:43 2012 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:03:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Please ignore my last message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, account was hacked. All now is well again. Sorry.Annemarie Cooke From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 18:30:39 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:30:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Please ignore my last message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cd5f93$46a8a0e0$d3f9e2a0$@gmail.com> Good for you on taking action! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Annemarie Cooke Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:04 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Please ignore my last message Yes, account was hacked. All now is well again. Sorry.Annemarie Cooke _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From ALewis at nfb.org Wed Jul 11 19:59:13 2012 From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:59:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] HR 3086 Update: Please share Message-ID: <0DDD28A4FA62284D8DA98DCAA627571705AB645FF5@VA3DIAXVS651.RED001.local> All: HR 3086, the Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act, continues to gain additional support. We currently have 81 co-sponsors of this legislation that will phase out the payment of subminimum wages to workers with disabilities. We have a list of over 45 supporting organizations. We are grateful for the support of each national organization, but we have noticed that local organizations of people with disabilities and employers of workers with disabilities carry a lot of weight when encouraging members to co-sponsor the legislation. Please have any of your state organizations email me if they are willing to have their organizations added to our support list. Our Goodwill boycott is garnering more and more media attention. I have attached a copy of a feature article from the Examiner, along with a powerful editorial from the paper about the subminimum wage issue. Channel 9, WUSA, in D.C. did a feature story on our Goodwill boycott. You can take a look at the story at: http://www.wusa9.com/rss/article/208068/158/Goodwill-Pays-Disabled-Employees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage. Goodwill could be the champion entity for this issue if their leadership has the courage to do the right thing. They state that 101 of their 165 affiliated agencies already pay the federal minimum wage to their employees with disabilities. We need them to require the other 64 to do the same. We may be conducting actual protests of some of the facilities. If any of your local organizations are interested in participating in an active protest at some of the Goodwill locations, please have them contact me directly. The following is a list of members of the Ed and Workforce Committee. A (*( designates those members that have already co-sponsored HR 3086. Please have your members thank these members, an encourage the others to consider co-sponsoring the legislation. Moreover, ask committee members to contact Ed&Workforce Committee Chair and committee staff to requests a hearing on this legislation. Education and the Workforce Committee Members Majority John Kline, Minnesota , Chairman Tom Petri, Wisconsin Howard "Buck" McKeon, California Judy Biggert, Illinois Todd Russell Platts, Pennsylvania Joe Wilson, South Carolina Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Bob Goodlatte, Virginia Duncan D. Hunter, California Phil Roe, Tennessee Glenn "G.T." Thompson, Pennsylvania Tim Walberg, Michigan Scott DesJarlais, Tennessee Richard L. Hanna, New York Todd Rokita, Indiana Larry Bucshon, Indiana Trey Gowdy, South Carolina · Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania Kristi Noem, South Dakota Martha Roby, Alabama Joe Heck, Nevada Dennis A. Ross, Florida Mike Kelly, Pennsylvania Minority George Miller, California, Ranking Member · Dale E. Kildee, Michigan Donald M. Payne, New Jersey Rob Andrews, New Jersey Bobby Scott, Virginia · Lynn Woolsey, California Rubén Hinojosa, Texas · Carolyn McCarthy, New York John F. Tierney, Massachusetts Dennis Kucinich, Ohio Rush D. Holt, Jr., New Jersey · Susan Davis, California Raúl Grijalva, Arizona · Timothy Bishop, New York David Loebsack, Iowa Mazie Hirono, Hawaii Jason Altmire, Pennsylvania I appreciate your assistance with this effort. Please contact me with any questions. Sincerely, Anil Mr. Anil Lewis, M.P.A. Director of Strategic Communications "Eliminating Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities" http://www.nfb.org/fairwages NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 (410) 659-9314 ext. 2374 (Voice) (410) 685-5653 (FAX) Email: alewis at nfb.org Web: www.nfb.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: A06.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1482942 bytes Desc: A06.pdf URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Examiner Editorial.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 14214 bytes Desc: Examiner Editorial.docx URL: From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 11 20:13:05 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:13:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LCB Message-ID: I plan to attend LCB, after I graduate from college, next May. Are any of you currently attending LCB, or have any of you attended, in the past? I'd like to hear from all current, and past LCB students, on this list, to know what to expect, when I go there. Thanks, Joshua From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 21:08:34 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:08:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Please ignore my last message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A397D55AD574C1DA82229E6506735E1@OwnerPC> I figured that; glad its fixed. -----Original Message----- From: Annemarie Cooke Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:03 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Please ignore my last message Yes, account was hacked. All now is well again. Sorry.Annemarie Cooke _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 21:08:07 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:08:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill In-Reply-To: References: <4ffc63d5.e325ec0a.32bb.ffffc785@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, just study and do your best; maybe it won't take you double time. You can move onto another section before your time is finished for one if you completed it. What I mean is you don't have to wait til the next hour starts to begin a new one. good luck -----Original Message----- From: Grussenmeyer, William Daniel Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm stressing out studying for the GRE general test. I took it before I was blind. Now I'm taking it again because my scores expired and I want to apply to phd programs. I'm worried about getting tired out taking the test for 7 hours. The math sections are most important for me and I have to take them last in the day. Anyone taken them before and have any good advice or tips? --Bill ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Roanna Baccchus [rbacchus228 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:17 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Bill Hello Bill welcome to the list. As Chris already said if you have any questions feel free to ask. Let us know if we can help you in any way. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg22%40saclink.csus.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 12 01:52:03 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: >I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave > >Dear NFB Member, >The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >help us with a current project. > >We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >We want your voice to impact our work! >Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > >Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > >Thank you, >Mika Baugh >National Federation of the Blind >200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place >Baltimore, MD 21230 >P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >E: mbaugh at nfb.org >W: www.nfb.org > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 02:35:21 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 21:35:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>help us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 07:00:44 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 00:00:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <807C6F30B34E4CD88E8C49B0D4330F7B@BrandonsLaptop2> Finally something that matters! Hopefully the sex ed for the blind will be better than it is for the sighted! BTW, the link is: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey our world has lost the art of giving pleasure through sexual activity and it's even become taboo in some places, so it's vitally important that we are able to show our young how to do it right so we can have a controlled continuation of the human race! Our body was made to give us pleasure, so lets learn how to get that pleasure from it healthfully! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:52 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave > >Dear NFB Member, >The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us >with a current project. > >We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a >curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex >education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and >blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, >educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate >need for such a curriculum. >We want your voice to impact our work! >Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > >Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > >Thank you, >Mika Baugh >National Federation of the Blind >200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place >Baltimore, MD 21230 >P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >E: mbaugh at nfb.org >W: www.nfb.org > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 13:19:08 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 06:19:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] MY GRAD SCHOOL ESSAY Message-ID: Hello all, I wonder if somebody who is enrolled currently or has a graduate degree would mind reading my application essay for the Master's Info Resources & Library Science @ University of AZ Tucson? Please contact me off the list as I don't want my essay made public at this time. Thank you very much! Deb Mendelsohn -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From herrinar at muohio.edu Thu Jul 12 13:40:55 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:40:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 14:34:14 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:34:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> Hi Amber, I love the quote in your signature! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:41 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 14:49:14 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:49:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LCB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001401cd603d$82ad7610$88086230$@gmail.com> Hi Joshua, I'm actually leaving this afternoon to go to the LCB Buddy Program. I'll add you to my list of people to email during the program with updates. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] LCB I plan to attend LCB, after I graduate from college, next May. Are any of you currently attending LCB, or have any of you attended, in the past? I'd like to hear from all current, and past LCB students, on this list, to know what to expect, when I go there. Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From anthony at olivero.us Thu Jul 12 15:33:28 2012 From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:33:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Folks, The when of having sex isn't what's at question. What's at question is being properly informed and prepared for the big event. Putting aside the argument of whether it's a school or parental responsibility to educate one's children (or for that matter oneself) we should be open to the possibility that, like math, science, and other caricular areas, sexual education (which in many curiculum includes the health of the reproductive system, we're not just talking about the sex act itself) will require some adaptations to make it fully accessible to blind students. While one might not *want* to see the slides or videos, one also might not want to feel the worm as it is disected, or understand the difference between an acute and an obtuse angle, but these are also required tasks in most cases. If sighted students have access to this curiculum, blind students should as well. We should be open to supporting research into improving methods of access to all educational programs for blind students. If we are going to demand access to education, we should have access to all fascets thereof. Tony On 7/12/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Amber, > > I love the quote in your signature! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:41 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 16:04:58 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:04:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LCB In-Reply-To: <001401cd603d$82ad7610$88086230$@gmail.com> References: <001401cd603d$82ad7610$88086230$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks! One of my friends, is a mentor for that program. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Joshua, > > I'm actually leaving this afternoon to go to the LCB Buddy Program. I'll > add > you to my list of people to email during the program with updates. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] LCB > > I plan to attend LCB, after I graduate from college, next May. > Are any of you currently attending LCB, or have any of you attended, in the > past? > I'd like to hear from all current, and past LCB students, on this list, to > know what to expect, when I go there. > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 16:10:28 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:10:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: Hi, Amber! You're right! BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! That's one of my favorite songs! Welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 17:29:11 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:29:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lcb Message-ID: <4fff0983.0863650a.71d7.ffffbb86@mx.google.com> Hi Chris send me updates on the Lcb Buddy Program. I'd like to know how you're doing. From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 17:37:12 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:37:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special curriculum for sex ed. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 17:39:00 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:39:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] geography question Message-ID: Hi all, I am taking a geography class and was wondering if someone could explain a term to me. The term is realm of contrasts. Thanks From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 17:55:45 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:55:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: You've said what I've been saying! We don't need one! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 18:08:55 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:08:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Lcb In-Reply-To: <4fff0983.0863650a.71d7.ffffbb86@mx.google.com> References: <4fff0983.0863650a.71d7.ffffbb86@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Roanna: please send personal E-mails to the person, directly. If you have any questions, please E-mail me off list. Thanks, Joshua On 7/12/12, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Hi Chris send me updates on the Lcb Buddy Program. I'd like to > know how you're doing. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From herrinar at muohio.edu Thu Jul 12 18:58:58 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Amber R. Herrin) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:58:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0a7401cd6060$6581e170$3085a450$@muohio.edu> Chris, No question on which side I stand, is there? I mean, putting what I said with what my signature says? Haha. I try not to push my faith in other people's laps, because I respect that everyone has to want to change or be changed before it can happen, so I try to respect that everyone has their own way and in their own time. But sometimes, when a particular topic comes up, I can't help but give my two-cents worth. So I am sincerely apologetic if anyone felt as though I was preaching. It was not my intent. And in other news: Kutless rocks! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:34 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Amber, I love the quote in your signature! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:41 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 19:46:05 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: Hello, Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss because we're blind. Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not just a cut or dehydration? Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our selves in school? It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of the droll thing they have now. btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here are some flavors as well..." That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without making a mess? Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, that's more science. Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 19:48:30 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:48:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <0a7401cd6060$6581e170$3085a450$@muohio.edu> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> <0a7401cd6060$6581e170$3085a450$@muohio.edu> Message-ID: Amber, I didn't feel like you were preaching. As a fellow Christian, I liked your signature. BTW, I'm about to minister at a nursing home. Chris and I both liked the signature! BTW, Kutless needs to put out something new! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Amber R. Herrin wrote: > Chris, > > No question on which side I stand, is there? I mean, putting what I said > with what my signature says? Haha. I try not to push my faith in other > people's laps, because I respect that everyone has to want to change or be > changed before it can happen, so I try to respect that everyone has their > own way and in their own time. But sometimes, when a particular topic > comes > up, I can't help but give my two-cents worth. So I am sincerely apologetic > if anyone felt as though I was preaching. It was not my intent. > > And in other news: Kutless rocks! > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:34 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Amber, > > I love the quote in your signature! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:41 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 19:50:01 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:50:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't see. JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy > > or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the > gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss > > because we're blind. > Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids > > get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to > > know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not > > just a cut or dehydration? > Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in > class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? > Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a > suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain > > pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to > > utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be > > happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our > selves in school? > It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human > beings, but that's kind of a different issue. > But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of > the droll thing they have now. > > btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind > person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or > tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? > Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you > want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" > Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got > small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here > are some flavors as well..." > > That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the > really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be > unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where > > as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to > > get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, > but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. > It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And > > what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is > talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without > > making a mess? > Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, > that's more science. > Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in > when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 20:34:31 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:34:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: Hi, Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people make out or get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person should become a parent. In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something that's way far from the root of the problem. On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't > see. > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >> playboy >> >> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the >> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >> miss >> >> because we're blind. >> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >> kids >> >> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed >> to >> >> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's >> not >> >> just a cut or dehydration? >> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in >> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >> obtain >> >> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught >> to >> >> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and >> be >> >> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >> selves in school? >> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human >> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of >> the droll thing they have now. >> >> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind >> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or >> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you >> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got >> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >> Here >> are some flavors as well..." >> >> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the >> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >> where >> >> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands >> to >> >> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >> parents, >> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >> And >> >> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >> without >> >> making a mess? >> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, >> that's more science. >> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in >> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From herrinar at muohio.edu Thu Jul 12 20:39:08 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Amber R. Herrin) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:39:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: <12ac01cd606e$63712180$2a536480$@muohio.edu> Desiree, This was very well thought out. I suppose though I worded it differently, I kind of meant the same thing: why do we need something different? Best, Amber -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi, Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people make out or get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person should become a parent. In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something that's way far from the root of the problem. On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I > don't see. > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >> playboy >> >> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or >> the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All >> that we miss >> >> because we're blind. >> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >> Sighted kids >> >> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >> supposed to >> >> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >> it's not >> >> just a cut or dehydration? >> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina >> in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >> obtain >> >> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >> taught to >> >> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love >> and be >> >> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >> our selves in school? >> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >> instead of the droll thing they have now. >> >> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >> Here >> are some flavors as well..." >> >> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of >> the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can >> be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their >> lube where >> >> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >> brands to >> >> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >> And >> >> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >> masturbate without >> >> making a mess? >> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >> baby, that's more science. >> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >> books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >> what's being shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>help us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surve >>>>ym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> ud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >> .edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >> dents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 20:39:26 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:39:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give pleasure, and all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no offense, but most of that stuff you said was a little gross. I mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't need to know if there's a couple making out in front of me on the bus. I can get descriptions of that stuff from books. And those are plenty descriptive enough for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rveym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 12 20:42:09 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:42:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4FFF36A1.6000801@visi.com> Everybody, fill out the survey and tell them how you feel -- it does no good to go on about it here. Dave On 7/12/2012 12:37 PM, Sophie Tris wrote: > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took a > sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative > despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special > curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > __________________________________________ From herrinar at muohio.edu Thu Jul 12 20:47:47 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Amber R. Herrin) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:47:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> References: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <12e001cd606f$99192250$cb4b66f0$@muohio.edu> Sophie, Thanks for saying this. I kind of started to feel as though I was alone in the idea that watching people make out is totally not on my list of must-tries. Also, I am thinking that, while there are things that children should learn to be prepared to maintain their health, it doesn't have to become a "sexual" issue. Technically, this is biology. Sooo...Why isn't it incorporated into a biology class, where it would be treated as a scientific issue rather than a risqué thing that all teens can't wait to get into? Best, Amber -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give pleasure, and all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no offense, but most of that stuff you said was a little gross. I mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't need to know if there's a couple making out in front of me on the bus. I can get descriptions of that stuff from books. And those are plenty descriptive enough for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rveym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 21:07:48 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:07:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Joshua, you really need to stop spamming lists with your own personal ideas and beliefs. We understand you don't want to hear about anything related to sex, and that you wouldn't want to see what's on the slides in a sex education class. But after all if you were sighted you would probably see the slides and you would survive the experience. I don't think we need this special curriculum either just because people learn by experimenting and because if a teacher explains things properly in class a blind student shouldn't have any trouble understanding what's going on. In any case it doesn't really matter what I think about sex ed classes or about having sex in general. Just start a topic on that if you want to talk about it… IC On Jul 12, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > You've said what I've been saying! > We don't need one! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I >> took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very >> informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need >> a special curriculum for sex ed. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> >> I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> Dear NFB Member, >> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >> help us with a current project. >> >> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >> us >> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >> the >> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >> students >> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >> We want your voice to impact our work! >> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >> below: >> https://www.su >> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >> >> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> Mika Baugh >> National Federation of the Blind >> 200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >> Baltimore, MD 21230 >> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >> W: www.nfb.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 21:13:54 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:13:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <12e001cd606f$99192250$cb4b66f0$@muohio.edu> References: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> <12e001cd606f$99192250$cb4b66f0$@muohio.edu> Message-ID: I filled out the survey, and there are a ton of opportunities to relay your opinion. It is a well thought out survey. On a side note, I do believe that there are some gross things that blindness prevents me from seeing. But to me, those are things that are contributing to sighted peoples' experiences, and if there are things that can be done so that I can take more of a part in that experience, then I am totally open to it. I am always appreciative of friends who tell me about interesting/surprising things they see. They don't go around constantly documenting things, but it is nice to get some insight into their world of constant visual stimuli sometimes. It often sparks interesting conversations. If a friend is really surprised at what someone is wearing, and if I do not understand why, I can ask. And then I can learn another great tip about what not to wear. Even if I hear random comments in public, I can usually deduce positivity or negativity from the nature of the comment. I appreciate these opportunities to learn, because they teach me about social norms. Cindy On 7/12/12, Amber R. Herrin wrote: > Sophie, > > Thanks for saying this. I kind of started to feel as though I was alone in > the idea that watching people make out is totally not on my list of > must-tries. > > Also, I am thinking that, while there are things that children should learn > to be prepared to maintain their health, it doesn't have to become a > "sexual" issue. Technically, this is biology. Sooo...Why isn't it > incorporated into a biology class, where it would be treated as a > scientific > issue rather than a risqué thing that all teens can't wait to get into? > > Best, > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:39 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give pleasure, and > all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no offense, but most of that > stuff you said was a little gross. I mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't need to > know if there's a couple making out in front of me on the bus. I can get > descriptions of that stuff from books. And those are plenty descriptive > enough for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:05 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hello, > Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of > playboy > or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the > gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss > because we're blind. > Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. > Sighted kids > get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed > to > know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's > not > just a cut or dehydration? > Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in > class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? > Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a > suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to > obtain > pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught > to > utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and > be > happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our > selves in school? > It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human > beings, but that's kind of a different issue. > But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of > the droll thing they have now. > > btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind > person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or > tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? > Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you > want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" > Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? > We've got > small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here > are some flavors as well..." > > That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the > really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be > unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube > where > as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to > get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, > but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. > It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And > what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is > talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate > without > making a mess? > Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, > that's more science. > Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in > when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us > with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a > curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex > education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and > blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, > educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate > need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveym > onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > tps:/ > /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stud > ents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 21:19:37 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:19:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> References: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8A6FCB37-775E-4CC4-B9F6-88B4A738D99E@gmail.com> I believe the point Brandon was trying to make is that if you were sighted you would see those people making out in front of you. If you don't want to live in the real world and you can actually stay in your own world of fantasy where people don't ever make out then you can do it just because you're blind, but that's not the way things usually work… Of course people can be a bit inappropriate sometimes and I'm not trying to defend such behaviors. What's clear is that sex and sex-related topics are around us all the time, and I don't think it makes sense to use blindness as an excuse to stay away from them. On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:39 PM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give pleasure, and all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no offense, but most of that stuff you said was a little gross. I mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't need to know if there's a couple making out in front of me on the bus. I can get descriptions of that stuff from books. And those are plenty descriptive enough for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:05 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hello, > Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy > or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the > gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss > because we're blind. > Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids > get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to > know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not > just a cut or dehydration? > Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in > class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? > Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a > suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain > pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to > utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be > happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our > selves in school? > It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human > beings, but that's kind of a different issue. > But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of > the droll thing they have now. > > btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind > person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or > tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? > Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you > want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" > Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got > small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here > are some flavors as well..." > > That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the > really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be > unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where > as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to > get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, > but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. > It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And > what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is > talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without > making a mess? > Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, > that's more science. > Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in > when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help > us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: > https://www.su > rveym > onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > tps:/ > /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stud > ents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 21:29:03 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:29:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, rays those babies and die. What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? I shutter to think how horrible that would be. A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of their apartment building and how passionate they are: "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that question. How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too many times from different blind teens in high school. How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school years. How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want to take this one? How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even find her! What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that spot was private...! These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi, Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people make out or get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person should become a parent. In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something that's way far from the root of the problem. On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't > see. > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >> playboy >> >> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the >> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >> miss >> >> because we're blind. >> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >> kids >> >> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed >> to >> >> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's >> not >> >> just a cut or dehydration? >> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in >> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >> obtain >> >> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught >> to >> >> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and >> be >> >> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >> selves in school? >> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human >> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of >> the droll thing they have now. >> >> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind >> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or >> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you >> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got >> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >> Here >> are some flavors as well..." >> >> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the >> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >> where >> >> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands >> to >> >> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >> parents, >> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >> And >> >> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >> without >> >> making a mess? >> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, >> that's more science. >> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in >> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 21:50:21 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:50:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Just a quick note about the survey. I was super discouraged, because my computer didn't ask me and restarted after updates after I had spent a significant amount of time on it. But after a while I resolved that I still wanted to fill it out. And, I don't know if surveymonkey just recognized my computer or what, but it routed me to the question I had last answered. So, if something happens while you are filling it out, try again. You may not have to start over. Cindy On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing what > > the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it > is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm > sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex > > should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, > rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn > skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we > > should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one > third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who > celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as > ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of > everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the > book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with > reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being > around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One > can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided > and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers > are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the > > rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for > 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the-usa.html > If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand > > how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood > > you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you > were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies > > may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's > important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child > developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of > their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair > cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between > them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come > > up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get > pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns > into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her > back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her > hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how > they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't > > know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss > looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? > > How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At > some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a robot...) > It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is > what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different > > class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but > most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify > sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that > question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too many > > times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school > years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want > to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even > find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that > spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I > think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance > class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't >> see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or >>> the >>> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >>> miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >>> kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed >>> to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's >>> not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in >>> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >>> obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught >>> to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love >>> and >>> be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >>> selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human >>> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead >>> of >>> the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind >>> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or >>> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you >>> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got >>> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of >>> the >>> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >>> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >>> where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands >>> to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, >>> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >>> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >>> without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, >>> that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short >>> in >>> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 12 22:08:28 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:08:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> Joshua, Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this survey is a good idea. Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids learn from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and functions; however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife teaching you basic stuff about this activity? Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I know from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi, Amber! You're right! BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! That's one of my favorite songs! Welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 22:05:00 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:05:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid> Brandon, I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or different from what everyone else is getting. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the-usa.html > If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a robot...) > It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too many times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't >> see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the >>> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >>> miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >>> kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed >>> to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's >>> not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in >>> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >>> obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught >>> to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and >>> be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >>> selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human >>> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of >>> the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind >>> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or >>> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you >>> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got >>> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the >>> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >>> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >>> where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands >>> to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, >>> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >>> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >>> without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, >>> that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in >>> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>> us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>> https://www.surveym >>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 22:17:50 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:17:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> <-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com> I would have to agree with you on this. I don't think sighted people are taught how to make out. It is something that comes to you naturally and you get better at it from experience... hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or different from what everyone else is getting. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate- > in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a > robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too many times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >> don't see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? >>> Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? >>> All that we miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>> Sighted kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>> it's not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>> vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse >>> to obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>> love and be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>> our selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one >>> of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people >>> can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with >>> their lube where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>> brands to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>> masturbate without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>> baby, that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>> us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>> in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>> students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>> education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>> have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>> https://www.sur >>>>> veym >>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 12 22:21:22 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:21:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> Sophie, I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it supplements it. Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I don't understand. They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex part sometime. I think I'll take that survey that started this. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special curriculum for sex ed. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 22:32:22 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:32:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Brandon, Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this survey > is a good idea. > Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and what > you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids learn > > from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss > anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and functions; > > however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I know > > from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it > meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I > know less about sex than my peers my age. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, Amber! > You're right! > BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > That's one of my favorite songs! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 22:44:32 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:44:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, It would be pretty easy to look up a lot of the questions you have on the internet. There are plenty of reputable health websites that will tell you what you want to know. I agree, listening to a screen reader talk about sex might not be the best way to go about it, but your questions about pregnancy are scientific, so I would say you could go to a site like kidshealth.org, go to their parenting section, and read many articles about pregnancy, labor, and birth. The articles on that site are in easy-to-understand language and it's just the facts. There are other websites like babycenter.com that will give you the same kind of information. A google search can do wonders as well. Don't feel discouraged, if you want to find something out badly enough, research it. On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Sophie, > I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack knowledge > > usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it supplements it. > Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would > further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > > For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been > explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. > What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in > supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets nurishment as > > its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I don't > understand. > They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started labour > in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby til next > > afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She informed me > > she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's head came out > first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from her as I held my > > nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned > > that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I learned that infants > needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will tell me more about her > > pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > > I think I'll take that survey that started this. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jeffc4 at lavabit.com Thu Jul 12 22:55:44 2012 From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <61500.68.62.22.6.1342133744.squirrel@lavabit.com> Hi all, Jeff Crouch here. My input on this, is that i am 15 years old. My school does not even have a sex education class for sighted students, but i do think it is important to have something like this, because i think alls they would do is have pictures and what does that do for me, absolute nothing. 73 kd8qiq jeff crouch > Just a quick note about the survey. I was super discouraged, because > my computer didn't ask me and restarted after updates after I had > spent a significant amount of time on it. But after a while I resolved > that I still wanted to fill it out. And, I don't know if surveymonkey > just recognized my computer or what, but it routed me to the question > I had last answered. So, if something happens while you are filling it > out, try again. You may not have to start over. > > Cindy > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing >> what >> >> the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what >> it >> is in the first place. >> I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and >> I'm >> sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes >> sex >> >> should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be >> human. >> We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make >> babies, >> rays those babies and die. >> What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn >> skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say >> we >> >> should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one >> third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of >> ourselves. >> I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people >> who >> celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as >> ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of >> everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in >> the >> book. >> It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with >> reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being >> around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. >> One >> can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be >> avoided >> and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the >> numbers >> are out and glairing: >> "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; >> the >> >> rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America >> for >> 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." >> http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the-usa.html >> If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. >> >> Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you >> understand >> >> how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who >> understood >> >> you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid >> you >> were put into a conservative household? >> I shutter to think how horrible that would be. >> >> A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with >> hurpies >> >> may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's >> important! >> It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child >> developmentally delayed if not addressed. >> >> My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front >> of >> their apartment building and how passionate they are: >> "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair >> cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room >> between >> them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they >> come >> >> up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they >> get >> pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss >> turns >> into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her >> back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." >> >> It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her >> hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, >> how >> they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and >> don't >> >> know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss >> looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the >> bus? >> >> How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At >> some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully >> unaware. >> >> If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw >> Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a >> robot...) >> It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is >> what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. >> This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally >> different >> >> class of their own. >> >> What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, >> but >> most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that >> signify >> sexual interest. >> How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on >> that >> question. >> How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too >> many >> >> times from different blind teens in high school. >> How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school >> years. >> How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys >> want >> to take this one? >> How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important >> sometime... >> How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't >> even >> find her! >> What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me >> that >> spot was private...! >> >> These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what >> I >> think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance >> class. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, >> Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I >> have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these >> things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching >> people make out or get physical, and this could even include their >> parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most >> are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom >> side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, >> "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right >> precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out >> avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information >> directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual >> experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there >> are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships >> don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, >> their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a >> young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments >> with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to >> support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots >> of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and >> that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but >> also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can >> turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction >> with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and >> parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as >> sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about >> the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, >> JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works >> most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing >> by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. >> Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an >> educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are >> experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They >> talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these >> topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. >> Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or >> acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going >> to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity >> being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people >> are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. >> There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental >> reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be >> that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex >> than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak >> from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I >> shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the >> physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God >> forbid a blind person should become a parent. >> In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written >> up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, >> blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel >> that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the >> sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and >> embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in >> general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to >> let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher >> can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If >> psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain >> objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's >> sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something >> that's way far from the root of the problem. >> >> On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >>> don't >>> see. >>> JMHO! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>>> playboy >>>> >>>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or >>>> the >>>> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >>>> miss >>>> >>>> because we're blind. >>>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >>>> kids >>>> >>>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>>> supposed >>>> to >>>> >>>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>>> it's >>>> not >>>> >>>> just a cut or dehydration? >>>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina >>>> in >>>> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >>>> obtain >>>> >>>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>>> taught >>>> to >>>> >>>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love >>>> and >>>> be >>>> >>>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >>>> selves in school? >>>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>>> human >>>> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead >>>> of >>>> the droll thing they have now. >>>> >>>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>>> blind >>>> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one >>>> or >>>> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>>> you >>>> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>>> got >>>> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>>> Here >>>> are some flavors as well..." >>>> >>>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of >>>> the >>>> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >>>> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >>>> where >>>> >>>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>>> brands >>>> to >>>> >>>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>>> parents, >>>> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those >>>> problems. >>>> And >>>> >>>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >>>> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >>>> without >>>> >>>> making a mess? >>>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>>> baby, >>>> that's more science. >>>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short >>>> in >>>> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>> you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>>us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Discover and compare hundreds of sources for Cheap. > http://click.lavabit.com/jxjogtgdu7nurxesrotggrmh4paxgs67gtxyqmckb35f7xas3sny/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 22:59:01 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:59:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <4fff56b8.21d4320a.233c.0225@mx.google.com> My sex ed was a lot of lies. Desiree, you wrote a really good post. Honesftly, I went to Catholic school, then a conservative high school, but that didn't exactly stop me from doing it before marriage. My question is, when will marriage come? I'm not exactly able to marry due to the drawing of SSI, so marriage will not come between me and my current boyfriend till later. I am currently dating someone who went through a pretty strict "abstinence only" sex ed, and his wording of this educational curriculum was, "Well, they said that since we're blind, we don't know where to put everything. So they taught us that it wasn't for us." Something like that. I can't remember exactly whuat else he said besides. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" wrote: Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't see. JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss because we're blind. Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not just a cut or dehydration? Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our selves in school? It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of the droll thing they have now. btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here are some flavors as well..." That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without making a mess? Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, that's more science. Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rve ym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0st ud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio .edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stu dents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 %40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 22:59:03 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:59:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <4fff56ba.21d4320a.233c.0226@mx.google.com> Making out. Ah, the mystery of making out. I found out when I was 22 what making out waas, and it was a magical moment indeed. Books just don't offer the same thing as the actual experience. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rveym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 23:12:54 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:12:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the first place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the other person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing can be more than a brush of the lips. I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA I was like, That's gross!!! I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how was I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a love scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman stuck her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was just so unexpected. Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. Of course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and romantic encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is what people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I thought it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought women didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty things that are a part of romance. It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to talk about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really delayed when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? I've never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that breasts are private on a woman...) Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, plus it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, I don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that household. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Brandon, Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this survey > is a good idea. > Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and what > you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids > learn > > from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss > anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and > functions; > > however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I > know > > from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it > meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I > know less about sex than my peers my age. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, Amber! > You're right! > BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > That's one of my favorite songs! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 23:46:40 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:46:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I > read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was > just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come > to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time > at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's > boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey >> is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what >> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >> learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 12 23:59:10 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:59:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley: what I was talking about, is that the instructor was describing everything on the slides, as the sighted people were looking at them. I had a relatively good instructor, that taught the class, but the descriptions were enough for me. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this survey > is a good idea. > Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and what > you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids learn > > from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss > anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and functions; > > however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I know > > from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it > meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I > know less about sex than my peers my age. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, Amber! > You're right! > BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > That's one of my favorite songs! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 00:06:39 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:06:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed to stick your peaness into it... We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing > can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I > read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA > I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how > was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was > just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and > romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is > what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come > to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to > talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time > at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's > boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, > plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey >> is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what >> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >> learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 00:13:23 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:13:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Good grief! I just have one question for you, since you're for this new curriculum. How do you think Dr Maurer, and his wife learned? They didn't have sex-education, in the 1950's, but they have 5 kids! That whole story destroys the argument! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed > > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >> can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time >> I >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA >> >> I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >> was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >> was >> just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >> romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >> what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >> come >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >> things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >> talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >> time >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >> plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, >> >> I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >> household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey >>> is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>> learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>> functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>> know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>> I >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>>us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 00:20:35 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:20:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Dear Brandon, Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on females, so why use it here? Sincerely, Humberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed to stick your peaness into it... We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing > can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I > read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA > I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how > was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was > just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and > romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is > what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come > to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to > talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time > at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's > boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, > plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey >> is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what >> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >> learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 00:29:04 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:29:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Humberto! Great post! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Humberto Avila wrote: > Dear Brandon, > > Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the > things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so > explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like > that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this > explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so > ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you > post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on > females, so why use it here? > > Sincerely, > Humberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a > guy, > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're > supposed > > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first > sexual > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's > like > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >> can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time >> I >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA >> >> I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >> was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >> was >> just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >> romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >> what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >> come >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >> things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >> talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >> time >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >> plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >> play, > >> I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >> household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey >>> is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>> learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>> functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>> know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>> I >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>>us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 00:41:45 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:41:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is most certainly something which should be further explored. -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Brandon, Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on females, so why use it here? Sincerely, Humberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed to stick your peaness into it... We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing > can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I > read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA > I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how > was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was > just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and > romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is > what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come > to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to > talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time > at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's > boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, > plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey >> is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what >> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >> learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From gcazares10 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 00:43:10 2012 From: gcazares10 at gmail.com (Gabe Cazares) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:43:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <000001cd6090$7ab9da90$702d8fb0$@com> Hi Joshua, Brandon, and my fellow NABS friends: I would like to start off by encouraging you highly opinionated folks to please take time to fill out the survey. I believe that we are facing a couple of different perspectives, which necessarily aren't bad, however I would like to speak to a few points. Brandon: I agree with most of your views. I too am of the opinion that a course on Sex Education is not a bad idea. In fact, if you take time to examine what the initial Email says you will see that they are not trying to create a separate curriculum for blind people. The direct quote is "Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards." Meaning that standards are already set for the education of other students, and they are only attempting to develop a curriculum that matches the current standards for the education of blind students. However, I disagree with your portrayal of blind people. Blind people are not as ignorant and naïve as I feel you present us to be. I for one, was never taught by a textbook or a course on how to kiss, how to behave myself, how to identify flirting, and for that matter sexually suggestive behavior. Don't forget that we are all people who happen to be blind, minus the blindness characteristic we're normal functioning human beings. Such behaviors come naturally, and with exposure to social environments and activities can be further developed and perfected upon. Also, I believe that you're examples have served their purpose, and that you are now walking on the fine line of almost being vulgar. Please keep in mind that we have students of all ages and professionals related to blindness and other issues relating to blindness subscribed to this list, and while the title of the thread discloses the subject matter very clearly, there really is no reason why to expound upon the points you have been making with such graphic examples. Your first few examples beautifully conveyed your message, now they're just becoming distasteful. Please keep that in mind when writing. Joshua: I can appreciate your point of view, because while I don't agree with it, I am of the opinion that everyone has the right to speak their piece. But please keep in mind that the leaders of the Federation are important individuals with integrity, and I'm not sure that using them as examples on a controversial topic like this one is such a good idea. Especially when you have stated incorrect facts, Dr. and Mrs. Maurer only have two children. Everyone has opinions on when to teach people about sex education, by whom it should be done, and at what age it's appropriate to do so. That is fine, but that is not what David's forwarded Email was all about. It was just a simple announcement asking us to participate in academic research for the matter being discussed on this thread, so again, I encourage everyone that has an opinion on the issue to take your comments off of the list, and transpose them to the survey. Best, ...Gabe Gabriel M. Cazares, 1st Vice President Texas Association of Blind Students - TABS (A Division of the National Federation of the Blind of Texas) www.nfbtx.org/tabs Phone: 713-581-0619 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Good grief! I just have one question for you, since you're for this new curriculum. How do you think Dr Maurer, and his wife learned? They didn't have sex-education, in the 1950's, but they have 5 kids! That whole story destroys the argument! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone > talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about > actually seeing > > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of > a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same > with a guy, > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're > supposed > > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that > having > > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first > sexual > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either > he'd get > > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and > he's like > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch >> the other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that >> kissing can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first >> time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through >> down my PDA >> >> I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and >> how was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through >> a love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because >> that was just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes >> to kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me >> personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of >> kissing and romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this >> is what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >> come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been >> my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many >> of the nasty things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing >> to talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >> time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing >> a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is >> located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >> women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he >> can't see me, plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't >> just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >> play, >> >> I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in >> that household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question >> one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. >> But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of >> a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change >> your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight >> or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a >> lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, >> we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I >> was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want >> or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the >> counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk >> what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so >> either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be >> an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I >> was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is >>> and what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. >>> Sighted kids learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >>> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts >>> and functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >>> I know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >>> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than >>> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being >>>> blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way >>>> sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do >>>> anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text >>>> be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>>> just a reason For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>>>us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>>>in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.sur >>>>>>veym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 >>>>> stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muoh >>>> io.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tudents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>> rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gcazares10%40gmail.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5128 - Release Date: 07/12/12 From sparklylicious at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 00:43:12 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:43:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <000b01cd6090$7c3ad540$74b07fc0$@gmail.com> Brandon, Schools could provide 3d models and other tactile graphics, but I don't think they could use live people when presenting the info. Sighted people get to see pictures so I think that a blind or low vision should be given the same but made accessible. You mentioned that your girlfriend did not know the different parts of her body, well I honestly don't think it's because she is blind. A lot of people (girls and boys alike) may not know about these things if they are not taught. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed to stick your peaness into it... We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that > kissing can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first > time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through > down my PDA I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and > how was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that > was just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me > personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of > kissing and romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this > is what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've > come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been > my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of > the nasty things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing > to talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first > time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing > a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling > women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't > see me, plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't > just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to > play, I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in > that household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. >> Sighted kids learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts >> and functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >> I know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than >> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >>>>>the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surv >>>>>eym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>s:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jul 13 00:47:04 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:47:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting The Message Out Message-ID: From: Robert Leslie Newman, president National Federation of the Blind Writers’ Division Writers’ Division Announces New Resource for Affiliates, Divisions, Groups & Chapters As Federationists changing what it means to be blind, we all have important stories – stories that the sighted public and the not-yet-blind need to hear. We can share them simply by living our lives or by speaking to groups, but to get wider coverage, we need to engage the media. Getting press attention, however, is often considered a daunting prospect by those with no public relations experience. That is, until now. The NFB Writers’ Division is pleased to announce its new “Guide to Writing Press Releases,” a free, step-by-step tutorial on getting press attention. Designed by volunteer NFB publicist Donna W. Hill in consultation with other Writers’ Division members, it is geared to nonprofessionals who want to make a difference. Learn how to recognize a news-worthy story, what the media is looking for and how to give it to them. Read examples of press releases that led to media coverage. Download a template for creating a standard document that you can store and re use. Come experience this light-hearted, inspiring and educational resource at: http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/education_station/press_release_guide.cfm For further information about the creation of this resource, check out “Wing’s for Our Stories” by Donna W. Hill in the June, 2012 Braille Monitor: http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm12/bm1206/bm120611.html Braille Monitor editor Gary Wonder, in the intro to Donna’s article, says, “Every affiliate should be lucky enough to have a member who makes sure that the media are well aware of the good work being done by Federationists.” We at the Writers’ Division welcome your feedback and questions. And, don't forget to share your successes! From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 00:47:18 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:47:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well: on a sidenote, I'd ask that we cease discussion of this topic on here, so that this list doesn't get put on moderated status again. Thanks, Joshua On 7/12/12, Anjelina wrote: > While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body > parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. > I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is most > > certainly something which should be further explored. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Humberto Avila > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Brandon, > > Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the > things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so > explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like > that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this > explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so > ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you > post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on > females, so why use it here? > > Sincerely, > Humberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a > guy, > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're > supposed > > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first > sexual > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's > like > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >> can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time >> I >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA >> I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >> was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >> was >> just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >> romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >> what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >> come >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >> things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >> talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >> time >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >> plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >> play, > >> I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >> household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey >>> is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>> learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>> functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>> know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>> I >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>>us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com Fri Jul 13 00:51:21 2012 From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:51:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <006a01cd6091$9eccf8d0$dc66ea70$@mchsi.com> They use to say that in Sweden they used live models for such thing. And I think that's all I will say on that subject. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed to stick your peaness into it... We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that > kissing can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first > time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through > down my PDA I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and > how was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that > was just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me > personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of > kissing and romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this > is what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've > come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been > my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of > the nasty things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing > to talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first > time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing > a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling > women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't > see me, plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't > just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to > play, I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in > that household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. >> Sighted kids learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts >> and functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >> I know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than >> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >>>>>the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surv >>>>>eym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>s:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 00:53:23 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:53:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <000001cd6090$7ab9da90$702d8fb0$@com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <000001cd6090$7ab9da90$702d8fb0$@com> Message-ID: Gabe, sorry for the mixup. Still, when I mentioned them, I was proving the point you made earlier. This stuff comes naturally! We don't need explissit details. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Gabe Cazares wrote: > Hi Joshua, Brandon, and my fellow NABS friends: > I would like to start off by encouraging you highly opinionated folks to > please take time to fill out the survey. I believe that we are facing a > couple of different perspectives, which necessarily aren't bad, however I > would like to speak to a few points. > Brandon: I agree with most of your views. I too am of the opinion that a > course on Sex Education is not a bad idea. In fact, if you take time to > examine what the initial Email says you will see that they are not trying > to > create a separate curriculum for blind people. The direct quote is > "Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness > that reflect current education standards." Meaning that standards are > already set for the education of other students, and they are only > attempting to develop a curriculum that matches the current standards for > the education of blind students. However, I disagree with your portrayal of > blind people. Blind people are not as ignorant and naïve as I feel you > present us to be. I for one, was never taught by a textbook or a course on > how to kiss, how to behave myself, how to identify flirting, and for that > matter sexually suggestive behavior. Don't forget that we are all people > who > happen to be blind, minus the blindness characteristic we're normal > functioning human beings. Such behaviors come naturally, and with exposure > to social environments and activities can be further developed and > perfected > upon. Also, I believe that you're examples have served their purpose, and > that you are now walking on the fine line of almost being vulgar. Please > keep in mind that we have students of all ages and professionals related to > blindness and other issues relating to blindness subscribed to this list, > and while the title of the thread discloses the subject matter very > clearly, > there really is no reason why to expound upon the points you have been > making with such graphic examples. Your first few examples beautifully > conveyed your message, now they're just becoming distasteful. Please keep > that in mind when writing. > Joshua: I can appreciate your point of view, because while I don't agree > with it, I am of the opinion that everyone has the right to speak their > piece. But please keep in mind that the leaders of the Federation are > important individuals with integrity, and I'm not sure that using them as > examples on a controversial topic like this one is such a good idea. > Especially when you have stated incorrect facts, Dr. and Mrs. Maurer only > have two children. > > Everyone has opinions on when to teach people about sex education, by whom > it should be done, and at what age it's appropriate to do so. That is fine, > but that is not what David's forwarded Email was all about. It was just a > simple announcement asking us to participate in academic research for the > matter being discussed on this thread, so again, I encourage everyone that > has an opinion on the issue to take your comments off of the list, and > transpose them to the survey. > > Best, > > ...Gabe > > > Gabriel M. Cazares, 1st Vice President > Texas Association of Blind Students - TABS (A Division of the National > Federation of the Blind of Texas) > www.nfbtx.org/tabs > Phone: 713-581-0619 > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Good grief! > I just have one question for you, since you're for this new curriculum. > How do you think Dr Maurer, and his wife learned? > They didn't have sex-education, in the 1950's, but they have 5 kids! > That whole story destroys the argument! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone >> talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about >> actually seeing >> >> a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of >> a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same >> with a guy, >> >> it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're >> supposed >> >> to stick your peaness into it... >> We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind >> girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that >> having >> >> sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first >> sexual >> >> encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either >> he'd get >> >> scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and >> he's like >> >> a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. >> (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of >> thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs >> sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a >> whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a >> separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I >> do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job >> searching and resume building and things like that, these topics >> should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important >> topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it >> more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind >> psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some >> first-hand experience and knowledge. >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >>> first >>> >>> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch >>> the other >>> >>> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that >>> kissing can >>> >>> be more than a brush of the lips. >>> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first >>> time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through >>> down my PDA >>> >>> I >>> >>> was like, That's gross!!! >>> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and >>> how was >>> >>> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >>> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through >>> a love >>> >>> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >>> stuck >>> >>> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because >>> that was just so unexpected. >>> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes >>> to kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what > entails. >>> Of >>> >>> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me >>> personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of >>> kissing and romantic >>> >>> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this >>> is what >>> >>> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >>> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >>> thought >>> >>> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >>> women >>> >>> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >>> come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been >>> my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many >>> of the nasty things that are a part of romance. >>> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing >>> to talk >>> >>> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >>> delayed >>> >>> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >>> time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing >>> a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is >>> located? >>> I've >>> >>> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >>> breasts >>> >>> are private on a woman...) >>> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >>> women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he >>> can't see me, plus >>> >>> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >>> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >>> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't >>> just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >>> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >>> play, >>> >>> I >>> >>> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in >>> that household. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi Brandon, >>> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question >>> one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all >>> that. >>> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >>> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >>> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >>> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >>> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >>> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >>> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >>> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >>> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. >>> But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of >>> a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change >>> your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight >>> or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >>> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >>> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >>> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a >>> lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, >>> we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I >>> was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >>> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >>> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >>> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >>> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >>> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want >>> or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the >>> counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk >>> what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so >>> either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be >>> an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I >>> was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>>> survey is a good idea. >>>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is >>>> and what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. >>>> Sighted kids learn >>>> >>>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >>>> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts >>>> and functions; >>>> >>>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >>>> I know >>>> >>>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >>>> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than >>>> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi, Amber! >>>> You're right! >>>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>>> Dear Joshua, >>>>> >>>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>>>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being >>>>> blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way >>>>> sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do >>>>> anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text >>>>> be?) >>>>> >>>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>>>> just a reason For someone not to try >>>>> >>>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> When they decide to take that step >>>>> Out on the water >>>>> It'll be alright >>>>> >>>>> Life is so much more >>>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> You will find your way >>>>> If you keep believing" >>>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>> >>>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>>>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>>>>us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>>>>in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a > curriculum. >>>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>>https://www.sur >>>>>>>veym >>>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 >>>>>> stud >>>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muoh >>>>> io.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>>> tudents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>> rthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gcazares10%40gmail.com > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5128 - Release Date: 07/12/12 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 00:55:00 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:55:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <600CB5FF-9601-4E8C-BBD6-CB8632AC64DF@gmail.com> I think this is a good topic for the list, if a bit crudely done. I mean we hear about teen pregnancies all the time, which would lead one to believe that teens, more than ever, are pressured into having sex before their ready. On the college front, well, for the most part it's a given that college kids are going to have sex. Not true for everyone, i know; I put myself in the the "not true for everyone" category. However, while i'm not interested in having sex until i'm married, the whole concept of sex and romance is curious to me. The way i see it is: people have been having sex for ages, so it can't be too difficult, and i'm sure people just would wing it most of the time. I think sex and all that it entails is genetically coded into us, as with other animals. Dogs or parrots don't have a sex ED class, and we're supposedly smarter, so how hard can it be to know what to do when the time comes. :P okay granted those animals can see… not to sound like a total snob here but: there are people i know who only know how to make microwave or frozen dinners and don't really get around by themselves, yet they manage sex. This is not a dig at anyone who may fit this category. i'm just making a point that i don't think there's much skill involved as the media or books may make us think. I think that's all in our heads. I dunno, maybe 'm missing the point. going to end this before i step on someone's toes now. On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Anjelina wrote: > While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. > I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is most certainly something which should be further explored. > > -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Brandon, > > Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the > things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so > explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like > that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this > explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so > ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you > post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on > females, so why use it here? > > Sincerely, > Humberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed > > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >> can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA >> I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >> was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was >> just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >> romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >> what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >> things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >> talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >> plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > >> I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >> household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey >>> is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>> learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>> functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>> know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>> us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>> https://www.surveym >>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 00:58:28 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:58:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <000b01cd6090$7c3ad540$74b07fc0$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <000b01cd6090$7c3ad540$74b07fc0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: And they can be taught, without explissit details. I like the enitial ideas presented in the survey, and I might fill it out, but some people want to go too far with it, and that's what I oppose. We can have a general education course, teaching about all of that stuff, but we must leave the explissit stuff out, especially in a seventh grade classroom! If you want explissit stuff, wait until they're mature enough to handle it, like in high school. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Hannah Chadwick wrote: > Brandon, > Schools could provide 3d models and other tactile graphics, but I don't > think they could use live people when presenting the info. Sighted people > get to see pictures so I think that a blind or low vision should be given > the same but made accessible. > You mentioned that your girlfriend did not know the different parts of her > body, well I honestly don't think it's because she is blind. A lot of > people > (girls and boys alike) may not know about these things if they are not > taught. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a > guy, > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're > supposed > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first > sexual > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's > like > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing > you > speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like > perhaps > they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. > But > I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be > made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in > summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like > that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression > are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would > make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand > experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that >> kissing can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first >> time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through >> down my PDA I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and >> how was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >> was just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me >> personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of >> kissing and romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this >> is what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >> come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been >> my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of >> the nasty things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing >> to talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >> time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing >> a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is > located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >> women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't >> see me, plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't >> just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >> play, I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in >> that household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. >>> Sighted kids learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >>> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts >>> and functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >>> I know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >>> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than >>> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>>> just a reason For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >>>>>>the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a > curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surv >>>>>>eym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>s:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>>> tud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>>> o.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>>> udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com Fri Jul 13 01:04:38 2012 From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:04:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <006b01cd6093$79d2ce90$6d786bb0$@mchsi.com> Well Brandon, my feelings on this is that it has never been "gross" to me. And the first body I touched was definitely not hairy. As to allowing a person to grab a breast just because he is blind, is highly inappropriate. It's one of the reason my wife will not be by herself at conventions if she can help it. fI'm quite aware that the ADA is suppose to give us equal access to our surroundings. However, it does not apply to just groping someone, just because you are blind and want to know what the "hot babe" looks like. And blind or sighted, grope my wife and there will be hell to pay. There are other ways to learn such things as you have asked about. If all else fails, use your own money to invest in your education. Loren -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hello, Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the first place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the other person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing can be more than a brush of the lips. I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA I was like, That's gross!!! I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how was I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a love scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman stuck her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was just so unexpected. Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. Of course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and romantic encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is what people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I thought it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought women didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty things that are a part of romance. It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to talk about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really delayed when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? I've never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that breasts are private on a woman...) Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, plus it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, I don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that household. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Brandon, Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this > survey is a good idea. > Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and > what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted > kids learn > > from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss > anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and > functions; > > however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I > know > > from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what > it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to > say I know less about sex than my peers my age. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, Amber! > You're right! > BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > That's one of my favorite songs! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >> books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >> what's being shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>help us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surve >>>>ym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> ud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >> .edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >> dents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com Fri Jul 13 01:14:26 2012 From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:14:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff56b8.21d4320a.233c.0225@mx.google.com> References: <4fff56b8.21d4320a.233c.0225@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006c01cd6094$d8a794e0$89f6bea0$@mchsi.com> One can marry on SSI. But as a married couple, you onle receive 1.5 of the amount 2 people just living together would receive. I don't agree with that, but right now, that's the way it is. As to when will marriage come, that is a big question for everyone. Loren -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum My sex ed was a lot of lies. Desiree, you wrote a really good post. Honesftly, I went to Catholic school, then a conservative high school, but that didn't exactly stop me from doing it before marriage. My question is, when will marriage come? I'm not exactly able to marry due to the drawing of SSI, so marriage will not come between me and my current boyfriend till later. I am currently dating someone who went through a pretty strict "abstinence only" sex ed, and his wording of this educational curriculum was, "Well, they said that since we're blind, we don't know where to put everything. So they taught us that it wasn't for us." Something like that. I can't remember exactly whuat else he said besides. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" wrote: Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't see. JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss because we're blind. Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not just a cut or dehydration? Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our selves in school? It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of the droll thing they have now. btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here are some flavors as well..." That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without making a mess? Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, that's more science. Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rve ym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0st ud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio .edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stu dents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 %40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:16:45 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:16:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <600CB5FF-9601-4E8C-BBD6-CB8632AC64DF@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> <600CB5FF-9601-4E8C-BBD6-CB8632AC64DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow! Valory, you've said what I've been saying all along. Why do we need all of that explissit stuff, when it's built into us genetically? Good grief! I can understand describing slides and showing them to the sighted, but every minute detail, shouldn't be explissitly described. Like I said, they should save the explissit stuff for high school aged kids, and do more general for the younger ones. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: > I think this is a good topic for the list, if a bit crudely done. I mean we > hear about teen pregnancies all the time, which would lead one to believe > that teens, more than ever, are pressured into having sex before their > ready. On the college front, well, for the most part it's a given that > college kids are going to have sex. Not true for everyone, i know; I put > myself in the the "not true for everyone" category. However, while i'm not > interested in having sex until i'm married, the whole concept of sex and > romance is curious to me. > > The way i see it is: people have been having sex for ages, so it can't be > too difficult, and i'm sure people just would wing it most of the time. I > think sex and all that it entails is genetically coded into us, as with > other animals. Dogs or parrots don't have a sex ED class, and we're > supposedly smarter, so how hard can it be to know what to do when the time > comes. :P okay granted those animals can see… > > not to sound like a total snob here but: there are people i know who only > know how to make microwave or frozen dinners and don't really get around by > themselves, yet they manage sex. This is not a dig at anyone who may fit > this category. i'm just making a point that i don't think there's much skill > involved as the media or books may make us think. I think that's all in our > heads. > > I dunno, maybe 'm missing the point. > > going to end this before i step on someone's toes now. > On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Anjelina wrote: > >> While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body >> parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. >> I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is >> most certainly something which should be further explored. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Brandon, >> >> Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of >> the >> things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so >> explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description >> like >> that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this >> explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so >> ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you >> post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on >> females, so why use it here? >> >> Sincerely, >> Humberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone >> talk >> about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually >> seeing >> a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a >> man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a >> guy, >> >> it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're >> supposed >> >> to stick your peaness into it... >> We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind >> girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that >> having >> sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first >> sexual >> >> encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd >> get >> scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's >> like >> >> a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. >> (New advertisement for birth control!) >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of >> thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs >> sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a >> whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a >> separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I >> do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job >> searching and resume building and things like that, these topics >> should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important >> topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it >> more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind >> psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some >> first-hand experience and knowledge. >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >>> first >>> >>> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >>> other >>> >>> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >>> can >>> >>> be more than a brush of the lips. >>> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time >>> I >>> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my >>> PDA >>> I >>> >>> was like, That's gross!!! >>> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >>> was >>> >>> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >>> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >>> love >>> >>> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >>> stuck >>> >>> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >>> was >>> just so unexpected. >>> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >>> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >>> Of >>> >>> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >>> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >>> romantic >>> >>> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >>> what >>> >>> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >>> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >>> thought >>> >>> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >>> women >>> >>> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >>> come >>> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my >>> active >>> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >>> things that are a part of romance. >>> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >>> talk >>> >>> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >>> delayed >>> >>> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >>> time >>> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >>> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >>> I've >>> >>> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >>> breasts >>> >>> are private on a woman...) >>> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >>> women's >>> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >>> plus >>> >>> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >>> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >>> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >>> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >>> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >>> play, >> >>> I >>> >>> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >>> household. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi Brandon, >>> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >>> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >>> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >>> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >>> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >>> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >>> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >>> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >>> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >>> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >>> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >>> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >>> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >>> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >>> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >>> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >>> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >>> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >>> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >>> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >>> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >>> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >>> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >>> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >>> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >>> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >>> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >>> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >>> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >>> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >>> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >>> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>>> survey >>>> is a good idea. >>>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>>> what >>>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>>> learn >>>> >>>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>>> functions; >>>> >>>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>>> know >>>> >>>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>>> I >>>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi, Amber! >>>> You're right! >>>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>>> Dear Joshua, >>>>> >>>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>>> guess? >>>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>>> you >>>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>>> doesn't >>>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>>> written >>>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>>> >>>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> Impossible is not a word >>>>> It's just a reason >>>>> For someone not to try >>>>> >>>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> When they decide to take that step >>>>> Out on the water >>>>> It'll be alright >>>>> >>>>> Life is so much more >>>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> You will find your way >>>>> If you keep believing" >>>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>> >>>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>>> proposed >>>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>>> being >>>>> shown, in those slides? >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>> https://www.surveym >>>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p >> ccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >> net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> >> Anjelina >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 01:17:05 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:17:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info Message-ID: Hi all, I agree with the opinion that blind students don't really need a special sex ed curriculum just for us, any more than we need a specialized math or geography or biology curriculum. Instead, we should have access to the materials given to sighted students in an accessible format, and we should be able to find books about sex in Braille and to find Internet resources we can browse privately if we have questions or concerns. While we have probably talked this particular issue to death, I do think this discussion brings up some important and controversial questions about how we should cope with all the visual information we don't routinely get that sighted people get. It is quite clear that sighted people observe lots of things around them visually that blind people don't automatically observe. However, it is also quite clear that blind people can function well in society, get an education, work, have hobbies, marry, raise kids and generally do all the things sighted people do, without all this incidental visual info. And blind people are no less intelligent than sighted people simply because of this lack of exposure to the visual world. It makes me wonder, How much of that visual info is really critically necessary for us to function? How much effort do we really need to put in to get access to all that visual info? In my experience, I believe part of being a successful blind person is figuring out what visual info is really critically important for a given job or task, getting access to that critical info and just not spending too much effort on those things that aren't critically important. Sitting around mourning all the visual info we miss out on, by itself, doesn't get us very far. To give an example that moves this topic back to academics, I earned a bachelor's degree in biology in 2007. I have been totally blind my whole life and I haven't a clue what most plants, animals and fungi look like. I only vaguely know what a cell or a chromosome looks like. Nevertheless, I earned my biology degree and I dare say, got higher grades than many of my sighted classmates. It turned out that knowing what living things look like is not very important for understanding biology. What does matter is understanding what part of the cell does what function, the steps of photosynthesis, cellular respiration, and DNA replication, and how genetic traits are inherited. So I learned these things and just didn't worry about all that visual stuff. If any of it had turned out to matter, then I would have gotten some tactile diagrams and worked with someone to ensure I understood what these things looked like. But it didn't matter and so I didn't worry about it. I could have chosen not to study biology because of concerns that the curriculum for sighted students is so visual, but instead of focusing on what I was missing, I found myself able to focus on what I could process with my mind like everyone else did, and I was fine. Similarly, with sex, it's true that we often don't know what a lot of things look like, but again, in my experience this hasn't put me at a significant disadvantage. I don't know what a diaphragm looks like but I do know how it is supposed to be used and what the benefits and disadvantages are of this particular birth control method. I did not know exactly what the male sex organs look like until my first sexual encounter when I was 21, but that really had no effect on my participation in sex. I have not seen couples making out on the street, or engaging in sexual acts, but I learned how to do these things through a combination of experience and the instinctive knowledge we share with other animals in this area. I can't really think of any way my current sex life would have been improved if I had had access to all this visual info. Regarding sexual education, I think the most important information is about the various forms of birth control and how it can be obtained, and about safer sex options. Given all that, I do think the blind can face a real disadvantage when it comes to flirting and dating. This is not just because sighted people don't always feel comfortable around us, or don't think of us as sexual beings, but also because we can miss signals that someone is interested or don't know how to send appropriate signals when we are interested in someone else. Unfortunately there aren't easy solutions to many of these issues, because no matter how much training we might get, we still can't see the signals others are sending us. But there are some strategies we can use to meet people and to build friendships which might eventually evolve into romances. I do think having discussions about dating etc. as part of blindness training for teens and young adults is a good idea. Best, Arielle From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:17:04 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:17:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Joshua, If you don't need it, then don't take the survey. But I bet some blind children would benefit from it. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum You've said what I've been saying! We don't need one! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:18:23 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:18:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <006b01cd6093$79d2ce90$6d786bb0$@mchsi.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <006b01cd6093$79d2ce90$6d786bb0$@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Amen! Speaking of convention, were you in Dallas this year? Thanks, Joshua On 7/12/12, Loren wrote: > Well Brandon, my feelings on this is that it has never been "gross" to me. > And the first body I touched was definitely not hairy. As to allowing a > person to grab a breast just because he is blind, is highly inappropriate. > It's one of the reason my wife will not be by herself at conventions if she > can help it. fI'm quite aware that the ADA is suppose to give us equal > access to our surroundings. However, it does not apply to just groping > someone, just because you are blind and want to know what the "hot babe" > looks like. And blind or sighted, grope my wife and there will be hell to > pay. There are other ways to learn such things as you have asked about. > If > all else fails, use your own money to invest in your education. > > Loren > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the first > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing > can > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I > read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA I > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how was > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a love > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman stuck > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was > just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. Of > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and > romantic > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is > what > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought women > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come > to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to > talk > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time > at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? I've > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > are private on a woman...) Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her > student > to stop feeling women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind > and he can't see me, plus it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > I > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then automatically do > it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex there is no right or > wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new car. > You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of the car, > the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and other factors, > you're going to have to navigate with more or less caution each time. Only > by mastering each route as you become more comfortable with it can you fall > into a pattern and stick with it. But if you're used to driving on quiet > country roads, and then all of a sudden you move to New York City, you have > to completely change your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? > It's not sight or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can > receive intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say what > feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot of > feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we would all > enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was starting to > say > in the beginning of my message, practice makes perfect. No one knows for > sure what works and what doesn't the first few times, or the first few > times > in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity when > they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or not, they > have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, asking for > assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they want. > Unfortunately, > there's just no way around that, so either way we lose on that scale. Maybe > ordering them online could be an option if people don't want to take that > route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable > with > that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted >> kids learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to >> say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I > guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >>> books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surve >>>>>ym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>>> ud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >>> .edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >>> dents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart >> hlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:24:58 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:24:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I'm just saying, they'll benefit, if they get what's being taught now, (abstenance only.) They don't need an explissit course on how to do certain things, like Brandon is implying. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > If you don't need it, then don't take the survey. But I bet some blind > children would benefit from it. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > You've said what I've been saying! > We don't need one! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I >> took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very >> informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need >> a special curriculum for sex ed. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> >> I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> Dear NFB Member, >> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >> help us with a current project. >> >> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >> us >> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >> the >> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >> students >> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >> We want your voice to impact our work! >> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >> below: >> https://www.su >> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >> >> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> Mika Baugh >> National Federation of the Blind >> 200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >> Baltimore, MD 21230 >> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >> W: www.nfb.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:25:18 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:25:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <0a7401cd6060$6581e170$3085a450$@muohio.edu> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> <0a7401cd6060$6581e170$3085a450$@muohio.edu> Message-ID: <49CAA2B3F5E0484789364A2EB62D8D24@OwnerPC> Amber, On the contrary. I've read books with graphic scenes but you have to know the terms to understand it. Novels use terms but you have to have background. This is not a debate on who has sex when. Gee, I wish people could leave that part out. I would wait til marriage for it too. But um, sighted people learn about it at a young age and so should we! If we want equal access to education, then a sex ed curriculum could help. Again, its about knowledge; just because I know about sex or whatever does NOT! mean I have to do it. But you should learn about it. Just because I study about Buddha or the God Vishnu does not mean I believe it. Just because I study evolution theory does not mean I believe it. So, just because we may study sex in an accessible way does not mean we have to do it. Its your choice. I hope some people do take the survey to help them develop something. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Amber R. Herrin Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:58 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Chris, No question on which side I stand, is there? I mean, putting what I said with what my signature says? Haha. I try not to push my faith in other people's laps, because I respect that everyone has to want to change or be changed before it can happen, so I try to respect that everyone has their own way and in their own time. But sometimes, when a particular topic comes up, I can't help but give my two-cents worth. So I am sincerely apologetic if anyone felt as though I was preaching. It was not my intent. And in other news: Kutless rocks! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:34 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Amber, I love the quote in your signature! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:41 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:27:52 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:27:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: Brandon, Exactly. You know I bet those people against sex ed would feel the same if they were sighted. Me, I feel disadvantaged for the reasons you mentioned. Its in movies all the time! We don't see that. Me, I never saw a condom and would not know one if I saw it; just hope if I do it my husband or boy friend uses protection. -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hello, Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss because we're blind. Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not just a cut or dehydration? Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our selves in school? It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of the droll thing they have now. btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here are some flavors as well..." That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without making a mess? Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, that's more science. Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > >> >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>us with a current project. >> >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>https://www.surveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >> >> >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com Fri Jul 13 01:26:52 2012 From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:26:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <007601cd6096$9550bdf0$bff239d0$@mchsi.com> These types of question are also aked by sighted individuals. Granted, the answers an solutions are different, but blindness has nothing to do with these questions. They are a natural part of growing up and discovering what attracts you to someone. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, rays those babies and die. What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the -usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? I shutter to think how horrible that would be. A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of their apartment building and how passionate they are: "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that question. How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too many times from different blind teens in high school. How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school years. How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want to take this one? How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even find her! What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that spot was private...! These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi, Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people make out or get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person should become a parent. In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something that's way far from the root of the problem. On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I > don't see. > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >> playboy >> >> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or >> the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All >> that we miss >> >> because we're blind. >> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >> Sighted kids >> >> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >> supposed to >> >> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >> it's not >> >> just a cut or dehydration? >> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina >> in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >> obtain >> >> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >> taught to >> >> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love >> and be >> >> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >> our selves in school? >> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >> instead of the droll thing they have now. >> >> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >> Here >> are some flavors as well..." >> >> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of >> the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can >> be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their >> lube where >> >> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >> brands to >> >> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >> And >> >> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >> masturbate without >> >> making a mess? >> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >> baby, that's more science. >> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >> books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >> what's being shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>help us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surve >>>>ym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> ud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >> .edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >> dents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:31:15 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:31:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <49CAA2B3F5E0484789364A2EB62D8D24@OwnerPC> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <000c01cd603b$6a2d8f00$3e88ad00$@gmail.com> <0a7401cd6060$6581e170$3085a450$@muohio.edu> <49CAA2B3F5E0484789364A2EB62D8D24@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, Ashley. I agree that the blind should be able to learn about it too. That's not what I was objecting to. I was just stating, that I was satisfied with the course, that I had received, when I was in middle, and high school. BTW, I'm waiting until marriage, as well, but that's beside the point! Just because I learned about it, in a general context, I don't think we should have a how-to course, like what has been described here. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > On the contrary. I've read books with graphic scenes but you have to know > the terms to understand it. Novels use terms but you have to have > background. This is not a debate on who has sex when. Gee, I wish people > could leave that part out. I would wait til marriage for it too. But um, > sighted people learn about it at a young age and so should we! If we want > equal access to education, then a sex ed curriculum could help. Again, its > about knowledge; just because I know about sex or whatever does NOT! mean I > > have to do it. But you should learn about it. > Just because I study about Buddha or the God Vishnu does not mean I believe > > it. Just because I study evolution theory does not mean I believe it. > So, just because we may study sex in an accessible way does not mean we have > > to do it. Its your choice. > > I hope some people do take the survey to help them develop something. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber R. Herrin > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:58 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Chris, > > No question on which side I stand, is there? I mean, putting what I said > with what my signature says? Haha. I try not to push my faith in other > people's laps, because I respect that everyone has to want to change or be > changed before it can happen, so I try to respect that everyone has their > own way and in their own time. But sometimes, when a particular topic > comes > up, I can't help but give my two-cents worth. So I am sincerely apologetic > if anyone felt as though I was preaching. It was not my intent. > > And in other news: Kutless rocks! > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:34 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Amber, > > I love the quote in your signature! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:41 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:31:14 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:31:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: Joshua, That seems real closed minded. You don't have to do the activity, but why are you offended about knowing about it. If you were sighted, I have news for you. It would be very hard to avoid! Our culture has sex in movies, tv, and well everywhere. This is about equal education. I may not like the gutts inside animals, but I'll see a model to learn about body parts. I am also a Christian and believe sex should wait til marriage butwe should be educated about it for when the time comes. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't see. JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of > playboy > > or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the > gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we > miss > > because we're blind. > Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted > kids > > get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed > to > > know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's > not > > just a cut or dehydration? > Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in > class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? > Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a > suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to > obtain > > pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught > to > > utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and > be > > happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our > selves in school? > It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human > beings, but that's kind of a different issue. > But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of > the droll thing they have now. > > btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind > person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or > tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? > Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you > want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" > Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got > small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here > are some flavors as well..." > > That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the > really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be > unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube > where > > as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands > to > > get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, > but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. > It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. > And > > what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is > talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate > without > > making a mess? > Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, > that's more science. > Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in > when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >>>Dear NFB Member, >>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>us with a current project. >>> >>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>https://www.surveym >>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Mika Baugh >>>National Federation of the Blind >>>200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>W: www.nfb.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:32:56 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:32:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <007601cd6096$9550bdf0$bff239d0$@mchsi.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> <007601cd6096$9550bdf0$bff239d0$@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Loren: another good post. I'll let you handle the rest of this discussion, because I'm tired of it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Loren wrote: > These types of question are also aked by sighted individuals. Granted, the > answers an solutions are different, but blindness has nothing to do with > these questions. They are a natural part of growing up and discovering > what > attracts you to someone. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing > what > the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it > is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm > sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes > sex > should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, > rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn > skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we > should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one > third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who > celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as > ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of > everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the > book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with > reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being > around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One > can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided > and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers > are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the > rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for > 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the > -usa.html > If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you > understand > how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who > understood > you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you > were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with > hurpies > may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's > important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child > developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of > their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair > cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between > them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come > up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get > pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns > into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her > back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her > hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how > they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and > don't > know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss > looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the > bus? > > How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At > some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a robot...) > It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is > what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally > different > class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but > most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify > sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that > question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too > many > times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school > years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want > to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even > find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that > spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I > think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance > class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I have > to > say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these things. While > sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people make out or > get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed curriculums > in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, with a > distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It makes > everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" And > honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. Have any > of > you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of > information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there are > plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships don't > have > to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their choices > and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age who don't > regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling up the > walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they made at 14. > So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from one > inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face > consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and shame when > they > feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have steered them > in the wrong direction with outright lies, however well-intentioned they > may > have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their > children > as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about the > birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, JUST > DON'T > DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most of the > time! > And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching abstinence > only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an educational > sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing the same > feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their friends, whether > they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted people talk to > other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or acted > out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going to go into > explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being > discussed. > Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably going to > pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be that > parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex than they > would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from personal > experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't have sex > because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but because of > the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person should become > a > parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written up > for > blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, blindness doesn't > mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind are > already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed curriculum for > us > would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex ed > curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the teachers who > teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal feelings and > biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't > be > handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping > profession > must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. > It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >> don't see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or >>> the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All >>> that we miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>> Sighted kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>> it's not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina >>> in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >>> obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love >>> and be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>> our selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for > contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your > favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and >>> wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of >>> the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can >>> be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their >>> lube where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>> brands to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>> masturbate without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>> baby, that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow > students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I > guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >>> books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surve >>>>>ym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>>> ud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >>> .edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >>> dents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:37:39 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:37:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> Message-ID: I'm not saying, that we shouldn't teach the students, but like I've said, the explissit descriptions being in textbooks, and stuff like that, is a little much. BTW, It's a sad world we're living in, where all of this stuff is out there for all to see. Sometimes, the wrong eyes, (those of young children,) see this stuff. It's sad, when a 7-year-old asks, "Mommy, what's that?" They shouldn't be exposed to that stuff, until they're older! That's a totally different topic, (IMO.) Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > That seems real closed minded. You don't have to do the activity, but why > are you offended about knowing about it. If you were sighted, I have news > for you. It would be very hard to avoid! Our culture has sex in movies, tv, > > and well everywhere. > This is about equal education. I may not like the gutts inside animals, but > > I'll see a model to learn about body parts. > > I am also a Christian and believe sex should wait til marriage butwe should > > be educated about it for when the time comes. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't > see. > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >> playboy >> >> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the >> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >> miss >> >> because we're blind. >> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >> kids >> >> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed >> >> to >> >> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's >> not >> >> just a cut or dehydration? >> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in >> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >> obtain >> >> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught >> >> to >> >> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and >> >> be >> >> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >> selves in school? >> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human >> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of >> the droll thing they have now. >> >> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind >> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or >> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you >> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got >> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >> Here >> are some flavors as well..." >> >> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the >> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >> where >> >> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands >> to >> >> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >> parents, >> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >> And >> >> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >> without >> >> making a mess? >> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, >> that's more science. >> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in >> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:41:02 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:41:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2><-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid> <000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> Hannah, sighted people are not taught about it because they see and observe how to do it and thereby learn it. No I don't think it’s a natural thing just learned by osmosis. I didn't know how to show love to my own family until someone showed me. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:17 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I would have to agree with you on this. I don't think sighted people are taught how to make out. It is something that comes to you naturally and you get better at it from experience... hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or different from what everyone else is getting. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate- > in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a > robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too many times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >> don't see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? >>> Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? >>> All that we miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>> Sighted kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>> it's not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>> vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse >>> to obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>> love and be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>> our selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one >>> of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people >>> can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with >>> their lube where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>> brands to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>> masturbate without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>> baby, that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>> us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>> in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>> students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>> education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>> have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>> https://www.sur >>>>> veym >>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:44:50 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:44:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> <-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid> <000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com> <45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Wow! I guess different people have different ways to learn things. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hannah, > sighted people are not taught about it because they see and observe how to > do it and thereby learn it. > No I don't think it’s a natural thing just learned by osmosis. I didn't know > how to show love to my own family until someone showed me. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hannah Chadwick > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:17 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I would have to agree with you on this. I don't think sighted people are > taught how to make out. It is something that comes to you naturally and you > get better at it from experience... > hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Brandon, > I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me > that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just > because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that > would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people > do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it > feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. > I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we > can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or > different from what everyone else is getting. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > >> Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing > what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what > it is in the first place. >> I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm > sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex > should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. >> We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, > rays those babies and die. >> What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn > skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we > should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one > third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. >> I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who > celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as > ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of > everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the > book. >> It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with > reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being > around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One > can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided > and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers > are out and glairing: >> "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; > the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America > for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." >> http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate- >> in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. >> >> Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you > understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who > understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness > forbid you were put into a conservative household? >> I shutter to think how horrible that would be. >> >> A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with > hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's > important! >> It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child > developmentally delayed if not addressed. >> >> My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of > their apartment building and how passionate they are: >> "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair > cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between > them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come > up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get > pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns > into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her > back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." >> >> It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her > hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how > they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't > know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss > looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? > How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At > some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. >> >> If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw >> Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a >> robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. > That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. >> This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally > different class of their own. >> >> What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but > most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify > sexual interest. >> How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that > question. >> How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too > many times from different blind teens in high school. >> How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school > years. >> How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want > to take this one? >> How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... >> How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even > find her! >> What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that > spot was private...! >> >> These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I > think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance > class. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, >> Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I >> have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these >> things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching >> people make out or get physical, and this could even include their >> parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most >> are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom >> side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, >> "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right >> precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out >> avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information >> directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual >> experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there >> are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships >> don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, >> their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a >> young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments >> with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to >> support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots >> of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and >> that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but >> also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can >> turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction >> with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and >> parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as >> sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about >> the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, >> JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works >> most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing >> by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. >> Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an >> educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are >> experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They >> talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these >> topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. >> Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or >> acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going >> to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity >> being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people >> are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. >> There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental >> reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be >> that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex >> than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak >> from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I >> shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the >> physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God >> forbid a blind person should become a parent. >> In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written >> up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, >> blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel >> that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the >> sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and >> embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in >> general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to >> let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher >> can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If >> psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain >> objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's >> sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something >> that's way far from the root of the problem. >> >> On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >>> don't see. >>> JMHO! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>>> playboy >>>> >>>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? >>>> Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? >>>> All that we miss >>>> >>>> because we're blind. >>>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>>> Sighted kids >>>> >>>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>>> supposed to >>>> >>>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>>> it's not >>>> >>>> just a cut or dehydration? >>>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>>> vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse >>>> to obtain >>>> >>>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>>> taught to >>>> >>>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>>> love and be >>>> >>>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>>> our selves in school? >>>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>>> >>>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for > contraception's? >>>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your > favorite?" >>>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and > wide. >>>> Here >>>> are some flavors as well..." >>>> >>>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one >>>> of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people >>>> can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with >>>> their lube where >>>> >>>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>>> brands to >>>> >>>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>>> And >>>> >>>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>>> masturbate without >>>> >>>> making a mess? >>>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>>> baby, that's more science. >>>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow > students. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I > guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>>> just a reason For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>>> us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>>> in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>> students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>> education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>> have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a > curriculum. >>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>> https://www.sur >>>>>> veym >>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>>> tud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>>> o.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>>> s%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>>> udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% >> 40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:50:51 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:50:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff56b8.21d4320a.233c.0225@mx.google.com> References: <4fff56b8.21d4320a.233c.0225@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5860CF286E7242CD947C90A16C5260AA@OwnerPC> Beth, I think NBP National braille press has a few books on this topic and the internet has health sites. You might want to check those out. My parents did not discuss such stuff, the only info I got was in school. However, my parents did give me a book as a pre teen called something like Asking about Sex and Growing Up. I think it was NBP publication. However they were not so strict as to preclude us from watching graphic tv or movies like some parents do. So I think my brothers got a better understanding than me since they are sighted. Its good to have truthful info about this stuff; not to believe lies. Maybe if the curriculum is developed, we both could check it out. Back then the county encouraged abstenance, not sure about now though. They tried to stick to the scientific stuff like body parts and the life cycle; honestly, it was so long ago, I don't remember what all it covered. We'll just see what comes up, if they develop the curriculum. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum My sex ed was a lot of lies. Desiree, you wrote a really good post. Honesftly, I went to Catholic school, then a conservative high school, but that didn't exactly stop me from doing it before marriage. My question is, when will marriage come? I'm not exactly able to marry due to the drawing of SSI, so marriage will not come between me and my current boyfriend till later. I am currently dating someone who went through a pretty strict "abstinence only" sex ed, and his wording of this educational curriculum was, "Well, they said that since we're blind, we don't know where to put everything. So they taught us that it wasn't for us." Something like that. I can't remember exactly whuat else he said besides. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" wrote: Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I don't see. JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of playboy or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we miss because we're blind. Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted kids get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person supposed to know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know it's not just a cut or dehydration? Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to obtain pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we taught to utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love and be happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our selves in school? It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead of the droll thing they have now. btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. Here are some flavors as well..." That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube where as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what brands to get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. And what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate without making a mess? Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a baby, that's more science. Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Joshua, I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) Amber R. Herrin Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's being shown, in those slides? Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rve ym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0st ud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio .edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stu dents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 %40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 01:51:36 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:51:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6DCAB4B5-2CEA-44B6-BAA8-42E752108969@gmail.com> Well said, Arielle, as always. :) On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I agree with the opinion that blind students don't really need a > special sex ed curriculum just for us, any more than we need a > specialized math or geography or biology curriculum. Instead, we > should have access to the materials given to sighted students in an > accessible format, and we should be able to find books about sex in > Braille and to find Internet resources we can browse privately if we > have questions or concerns. > While we have probably talked this particular issue to death, I do > think this discussion brings up some important and controversial > questions about how we should cope with all the visual information we > don't routinely get that sighted people get. It is quite clear that > sighted people observe lots of things around them visually that blind > people don't automatically observe. However, it is also quite clear > that blind people can function well in society, get an education, > work, have hobbies, marry, raise kids and generally do all the things > sighted people do, without all this incidental visual info. And blind > people are no less intelligent than sighted people simply because of > this lack of exposure to the visual world. It makes me wonder, How > much of that visual info is really critically necessary for us to > function? How much effort do we really need to put in to get access to > all that visual info? In my experience, I believe part of being a > successful blind person is figuring out what visual info is really > critically important for a given job or task, getting access to that > critical info and just not spending too much effort on those things > that aren't critically important. Sitting around mourning all the > visual info we miss out on, by itself, doesn't get us very far. > To give an example that moves this topic back to academics, I earned a > bachelor's degree in biology in 2007. I have been totally blind my > whole life and I haven't a clue what most plants, animals and fungi > look like. I only vaguely know what a cell or a chromosome looks like. > Nevertheless, I earned my biology degree and I dare say, got higher > grades than many of my sighted classmates. It turned out that knowing > what living things look like is not very important for understanding > biology. What does matter is understanding what part of the cell does > what function, the steps of photosynthesis, cellular respiration, and > DNA replication, and how genetic traits are inherited. So I learned > these things and just didn't worry about all that visual stuff. If any > of it had turned out to matter, then I would have gotten some tactile > diagrams and worked with someone to ensure I understood what these > things looked like. But it didn't matter and so I didn't worry about > it. I could have chosen not to study biology because of concerns that > the curriculum for sighted students is so visual, but instead of > focusing on what I was missing, I found myself able to focus on what I > could process with my mind like everyone else did, and I was fine. > Similarly, with sex, it's true that we often don't know what a lot of > things look like, but again, in my experience this hasn't put me at a > significant disadvantage. I don't know what a diaphragm looks like but > I do know how it is supposed to be used and what the benefits and > disadvantages are of this particular birth control method. I did not > know exactly what the male sex organs look like until my first sexual > encounter when I was 21, but that really had no effect on my > participation in sex. I have not seen couples making out on the > street, or engaging in sexual acts, but I learned how to do these > things through a combination of experience and the instinctive > knowledge we share with other animals in this area. I can't really > think of any way my current sex life would have been improved if I had > had access to all this visual info. Regarding sexual education, I > think the most important information is about the various forms of > birth control and how it can be obtained, and about safer sex options. > Given all that, I do think the blind can face a real disadvantage when > it comes to flirting and dating. This is not just because sighted > people don't always feel comfortable around us, or don't think of us > as sexual beings, but also because we can miss signals that someone is > interested or don't know how to send appropriate signals when we are > interested in someone else. Unfortunately there aren't easy solutions > to many of these issues, because no matter how much training we might > get, we still can't see the signals others are sending us. But there > are some strategies we can use to meet people and to build friendships > which might eventually evolve into romances. I do think having > discussions about dating etc. as part of blindness training for teens > and young adults is a good idea. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 01:55:52 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:55:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <5860CF286E7242CD947C90A16C5260AA@OwnerPC> References: <4fff56b8.21d4320a.233c.0225@mx.google.com> <5860CF286E7242CD947C90A16C5260AA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley: you're approach is a good one. Just stick to the scientific stuff, and leave out all of the explissit descriptions. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > I think NBP National braille press has a few books on this topic and the > internet has health sites. > You might want to check those out. My parents did not discuss such stuff, > the only info I got was in school. > However, my parents did give me a book as a pre teen called something like > Asking about Sex and Growing Up. > I think it was NBP publication. However they were not so strict as to > preclude us from watching graphic tv or movies like some parents do. > So I think my brothers got a better understanding than me since they are > sighted. > Its good to have truthful info about this stuff; not to believe lies. Maybe > > if the curriculum is developed, we both could check it out. > Back then the county encouraged abstenance, not sure about now though. They > > tried to stick to the scientific stuff like body parts and > the life cycle; honestly, it was so long ago, I don't remember what all it > covered. > > We'll just see what comes up, if they develop the curriculum. > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > My sex ed was a lot of lies. Desiree, you wrote a really good > post. Honesftly, I went to Catholic school, then a conservative > high school, but that didn't exactly stop me from doing it before > marriage. My question is, when will marriage come? I'm not > exactly able to marry due to the drawing of SSI, so marriage will > not come between me and my current boyfriend till later. I am > currently dating someone who went through a pretty strict > "abstinence only" sex ed, and his wording of this educational > curriculum was, "Well, they said that since we're blind, we don't > know where to put everything. So they taught us that it wasn't > for us." Something like that. I can't remember exactly whuat > else he said besides. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber R. Herrin" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:39:08 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Desiree, > > This was very well thought out. I suppose though I worded it > differently, I > kind of meant the same thing: why do we need something different? > > Best, > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. > but I have to > say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While > sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people > make out or > get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed > curriculums > in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, > with a > distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It > makes > everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" > And > honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. > Have any of > you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a > wealth of > information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' > first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, > there are > plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have > to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their > choices > and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age > who don't > regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling > up the > walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they > made at 14. > So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from > one > inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face > consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and > shame when they > feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have > steered them > in the wrong direction with outright lies, however > well-intentioned they may > have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing > their children > as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something > about the > birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T > DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most > of the time! > And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching > abstinence > only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational > sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing > the same > feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their > friends, whether > they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted > people talk to > other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are > discussed or acted > out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into > explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being > discussed. > Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably > going to > pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same > parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference > may be that > parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they > would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from > personal > experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't > have sex > because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but > because of > the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person > should become a > parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be > written up for > blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't > mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind > are > already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed > curriculum for us > would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex > ed > curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the > teachers who > teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal > feelings and > biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they > shouldn't be > handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping > profession > must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should > teachers. > It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at > something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad > that I > don't see. > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you > heard of > playboy > > or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the > bus? Or > the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? > All > that we miss > > because we're blind. > Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. > Sighted kids > > get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person > supposed to > > know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they > know > it's not > > just a cut or dehydration? > Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and > vagina > in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? > Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become > such a > suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance > abuse to > obtain > > pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't > we > taught to > > utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To > love > and be > > happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to > love > our selves in school? > It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the > words > human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. > But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it > instead of the droll thing they have now. > > btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is > a > blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they > haven't > felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for > contraception's? > Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand > do > you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your > favorite?" > Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? > We've > got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow > and wide. > Here > are some flavors as well..." > > That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's > one of > the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people > can > be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with > their > lube where > > as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know > what > brands to > > get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching > my > parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. > It's a serious issue and this program will help address those > problems. > And > > what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where > masturbation > is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy > masturbate without > > making a mess? > Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form > a > baby, that's more science. > Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way > short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow > students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing > about > sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind > of...unnecessary, I > guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone > believes > you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being > blind > doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way > sighted > people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or > read > books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the > new > proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, > what's being shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rve > ym > onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > tps > :/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0st > ud > ents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio > .edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stu > dents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 02:02:50 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:02:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <1658D2992D9F4293BD7F4D31138CFC5C@OwnerPC> Brandon, Yep. I know what you mean. You learned about a girl body; me, I learned about a guy body. I remember seeing and feeling a little of guy's bodies; we were in a pool or ocean. I have some vision so saw the dark hair. I didn't know where men grew hair either. Why? because, the body is covered in clothes, and therefore the hair is covered. As for women, still got a lot to learn. Nope, don't know where the umbilical cord is located. Ah, but got someone who just went through labour and maybe she'll explain. Heck, I even got to hug her as she was very pregnant. My brother said I should touch her and feel the baby kick around. Unfortunately, the baby did not move as I explored her. I thought hugging Kasey may get the baby to move, but no such luck. Ah, and french kisses. Like you, I had not a clue what it meant. I asked a family member and they told me. Yes its gross! The stuff about going through the cycle you know through birth can be gross. My brother didn't even watch it but was in the room. I did not know you could sleep during labour. Good thing you can since it may happen at night. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hello, Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the first place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the other person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing can be more than a brush of the lips. I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA I was like, That's gross!!! I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how was I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a love scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman stuck her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was just so unexpected. Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. Of course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and romantic encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is what people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I thought it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought women didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty things that are a part of romance. It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to talk about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really delayed when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? I've never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that breasts are private on a woman...) Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, plus it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, I don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that household. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Brandon, Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this survey > is a good idea. > Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and what > you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids > learn > > from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss > anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and > functions; > > however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I > know > > from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it > meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I > know less about sex than my peers my age. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, Amber! > You're right! > BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > That's one of my favorite songs! > Welcome to the list! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Dear Joshua, >> >> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I guess? >> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> written >> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> proposed >> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >> being >> shown, in those slides? >> Good grief! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>us with a current project. >>>> >>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>https://www.surveym >>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thank you, >>>>Mika Baugh >>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 02:01:16 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:01:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device Message-ID: I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 cells. What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth my money? Thanks, Joshua From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 02:11:42 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:11:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6E08B836C05C442AB83F86451217A66E@OwnerPC> Right Anjelina, it’s a bit well graphic but realistic. Although we are opposite genders, I understand where he is coming from. I did not know what a guy's body was like for a long time. I can imagine it would be surprising for a blind man to learn about hair on a lady's body. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anjelina Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is most certainly something which should be further explored. -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Dear Brandon, Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on females, so why use it here? Sincerely, Humberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a guy, it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're supposed to stick your peaness into it... We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first sexual encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's like a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. (New advertisement for birth control!) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job searching and resume building and things like that, these topics should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some first-hand experience and knowledge. On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > first > > place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > other > > person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing > can > > be more than a brush of the lips. > I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I > read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA > I > > was like, That's gross!!! > I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how > was > > I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > love > > scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > stuck > > her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was > just so unexpected. > Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > Of > > course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and > romantic > > encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is > what > > people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > thought > > it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > women > > didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come > to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > things that are a part of romance. > It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to > talk > > about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > delayed > > when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time > at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > I've > > never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > breasts > > are private on a woman...) > Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's > boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, > plus > > it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > I > > don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > household. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey >> is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what >> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >> learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Jul 13 02:23:18 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:23:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It seems to me that we're straying off the real issue here. I'm an old guy, so what do I know, but it seems the issue is whether we as blind people could get more specific and correct information about the human anatomy than we generally get now as we grow up. To me, the issue is how could we get more meaningful information without having it all turned into some kind of circus in the process. I'm at least going to take a look at the survey to see what exactly they are getting at. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:39:26 -0500, Sophie Trist wrote: >Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give >pleasure, and all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no >offense, but most of that stuff you said was a little gross. I >mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't need to know if there's a couple >making out in front of me on the bus. I can get descriptions of >that stuff from books. And those are plenty descriptive enough >for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:05 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >Hello, >Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard >of playboy >or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the >bus? Or the >gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All >that we miss >because we're blind. >Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >Sighted kids >get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >supposed to >know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they >know it's not >just a cut or dehydration? >Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >vagina in >class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such >a >suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance >abuse to obtain >pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't >we taught to >utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >love and be >happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to >love our >selves in school? >It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >human >beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >instead of >the droll thing they have now. >btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is >a blind >person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt >one or >tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for >contraception's? >Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand >do you >want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your >favorite?" >Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? >We've got >small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and >wide. Here >are some flavors as well..." >That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's >one of the >really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can >be >unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their >lube where >as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >brands to >get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >parents, >but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >It's a serious issue and this program will help address those >problems. And >what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where >masturbation is >talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >masturbate without >making a mess? >Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form >a baby, >that's more science. >Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >short in >when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >Thanks, >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Herrin, Amber R. >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >Dear Joshua, >I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >sex, >before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, >I guess? >Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone >believes you >should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >doesn't >prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >books written >on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >Amber R. Herrin >Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >"It doesn't matter what you've heard >Impossible is not a word >It's just a reason >For someone not to try >Everybody's scared to death >When they decide to take that step >Out on the water >It'll be alright >Life is so much more >Than what your eyes are seeing >You will find your way >If you keep believing" >-Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Joshua Lester >Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the >new proposed >curriculum, that they're wanting. >I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >what's being >shown, in those slides? >Good grief! >Blessings, Joshua >On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >I have been asked to circulate the following: > Dave >Dear NFB Member, >The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >help >us with a current project. >We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >us >write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >the >area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >students >with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >We want your voice to impact our work! >Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >below: >https://www.su >rveym >onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >tps:/ >/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >Thank you, >Mika Baugh >National Federation of the Blind >200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place >Baltimore, MD 21230 >P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >E: mbaugh at nfb.org >W: www.nfb.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >0stud > ents.pccua.edu >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu >ohio.edu >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 02:27:18 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:27:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff360c.6a98ec0a.4498.fffff09d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I'm all for what you're saying, Mr Jacobson. I'm just not wanting an explissit how-to course, which is unnecessary, (IMO.) Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > It seems to me that we're straying off the real issue here. I'm an old guy, > so what do I know, but it seems the issue is whether we as blind people > could get > more specific and correct information about the human anatomy than we > generally get now as we grow up. To me, the issue is how could we get more > > meaningful information without having it all turned into some kind of circus > in the process. I'm at least going to take a look at the survey to see what > > exactly they are getting at. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:39:26 -0500, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give >>pleasure, and all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no >>offense, but most of that stuff you said was a little gross. I >>mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't need to know if there's a couple >>making out in front of me on the bus. I can get descriptions of >>that stuff from books. And those are plenty descriptive enough >>for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:05 -0700 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>Hello, >>Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard >>of playboy >>or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the >>bus? Or the >>gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All >>that we miss >>because we're blind. >>Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>Sighted kids >>get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>supposed to >>know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they >>know it's not >>just a cut or dehydration? >>Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>vagina in >>class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such >>a >>suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance >>abuse to obtain >>pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't >>we taught to >>utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>love and be >>happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to >>love our >>selves in school? >>It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>human >>beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>instead of >>the droll thing they have now. > >>btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is >>a blind >>person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt >>one or >>tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for >>contraception's? >>Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand >>do you >>want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your >>favorite?" >>Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? >>We've got >>small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and >>wide. Here >>are some flavors as well..." > >>That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's >>one of the >>really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can >>be >>unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their >>lube where >>as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>brands to >>get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>parents, >>but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>It's a serious issue and this program will help address those >>problems. And >>what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where >>masturbation is >>talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>masturbate without >>making a mess? >>Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form >>a baby, >>that's more science. >>Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>short in >>when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>Thanks, > >>Brandon Keith Biggs >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Herrin, Amber R. >>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>Dear Joshua, > >>I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>sex, >>before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, >>I guess? >>Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone >>believes you >>should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>doesn't >>prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read >>books written >>on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > >>Amber R. Herrin >>Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>"It doesn't matter what you've heard >>Impossible is not a word >>It's just a reason >>For someone not to try > >>Everybody's scared to death >>When they decide to take that step >>Out on the water >>It'll be alright > >>Life is so much more >>Than what your eyes are seeing >>You will find your way >>If you keep believing" >>-Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>Of Joshua Lester >>Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the >>new proposed >>curriculum, that they're wanting. >>I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>what's being >>shown, in those slides? >>Good grief! >>Blessings, Joshua > >>On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>I have been asked to circulate the following: > > >> Dave > > > > >>Dear NFB Member, >>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>help >>us with a current project. > >>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>us >>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >>the >>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>students >>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>We want your voice to impact our work! >>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>below: >>https://www.su >>rveym >>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>>tps:/ >>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > >>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > >>Thank you, >>Mika Baugh >>National Federation of the Blind >>200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>W: www.nfb.org > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>info for >> nabs-l: >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>0stud >> ents.pccua.edu > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu >>ohio.edu > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>iggs%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>r%40gmail.com > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 02:29:34 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:29:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> Ashley, I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Sophie, > I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it supplements it. > Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > > For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I don't understand. > They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > > I think I'll take that survey that started this. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 02:35:00 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:35:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D377C0E9214F0AAAA15EB2A3B7D747@OwnerPC> Arielle, Each person wants or needs a different level of visual understanding about the world. No wonder its controversial. This survey btw is not for a separate curriculum, its to go along with current educational standards. When you said "It makes me wonder, How much of that visual info is really critically necessary for us to function? How much effort do we really need to put in to get access to all that visual info?" I wonder too. I'd think it depends on if you're a visual learner coupled with how much experience you have and how much you can learn from other means. I struggled in biology and just took the basic course. But I know what you mean. I need some diagrams to aid in visual understanding; I needed the cell diagram to see where the cell parts were. Yet in learning about plants and the human systems, I did not need the diagrams for understanding, at least not always. My biology teacher just explained it in more detail and I kind of visualized the process and memorized it. I actually know more about the human heart's workings than most sighted people; the cardiovascular system and circular system facinate me. Yet, I don't have the diagrams. Nature is kind of visual. I wish we did have more access to that though. Um, you cannot touch a deer, a fox, a lion, etc. Not even a bird. I wonder how birds differ from each other. Sometime I'm going to a farm and exploring the animals hands on! Its more for kids, but heck, I'll just have to be an adult kid. always a kid at heart. I'm very curious. I want to know about those animals. What does a pig look like? How is a rooster different than a chicken, other than its sex? I guess what I'm saying while knowing about birds, fish, foxes, cows, what a pine tree is versus a redwood, is not critical to our functioning in society, its good to know. I mean its common knowledge to learn this stuff and sighted people get it in pictures. While we are not less intelligent, we may certainly look less intelligent with gaps in our knowledge that most kids learn at age four. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:17 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info Hi all, I agree with the opinion that blind students don't really need a special sex ed curriculum just for us, any more than we need a specialized math or geography or biology curriculum. Instead, we should have access to the materials given to sighted students in an accessible format, and we should be able to find books about sex in Braille and to find Internet resources we can browse privately if we have questions or concerns. While we have probably talked this particular issue to death, I do think this discussion brings up some important and controversial questions about how we should cope with all the visual information we don't routinely get that sighted people get. It is quite clear that sighted people observe lots of things around them visually that blind people don't automatically observe. However, it is also quite clear that blind people can function well in society, get an education, work, have hobbies, marry, raise kids and generally do all the things sighted people do, without all this incidental visual info. And blind people are no less intelligent than sighted people simply because of this lack of exposure to the visual world. It makes me wonder, How much of that visual info is really critically necessary for us to function? How much effort do we really need to put in to get access to all that visual info? In my experience, I believe part of being a successful blind person is figuring out what visual info is really critically important for a given job or task, getting access to that critical info and just not spending too much effort on those things that aren't critically important. Sitting around mourning all the visual info we miss out on, by itself, doesn't get us very far. To give an example that moves this topic back to academics, I earned a bachelor's degree in biology in 2007. I have been totally blind my whole life and I haven't a clue what most plants, animals and fungi look like. I only vaguely know what a cell or a chromosome looks like. Nevertheless, I earned my biology degree and I dare say, got higher grades than many of my sighted classmates. It turned out that knowing what living things look like is not very important for understanding biology. What does matter is understanding what part of the cell does what function, the steps of photosynthesis, cellular respiration, and DNA replication, and how genetic traits are inherited. So I learned these things and just didn't worry about all that visual stuff. If any of it had turned out to matter, then I would have gotten some tactile diagrams and worked with someone to ensure I understood what these things looked like. But it didn't matter and so I didn't worry about it. I could have chosen not to study biology because of concerns that the curriculum for sighted students is so visual, but instead of focusing on what I was missing, I found myself able to focus on what I could process with my mind like everyone else did, and I was fine. Similarly, with sex, it's true that we often don't know what a lot of things look like, but again, in my experience this hasn't put me at a significant disadvantage. I don't know what a diaphragm looks like but I do know how it is supposed to be used and what the benefits and disadvantages are of this particular birth control method. I did not know exactly what the male sex organs look like until my first sexual encounter when I was 21, but that really had no effect on my participation in sex. I have not seen couples making out on the street, or engaging in sexual acts, but I learned how to do these things through a combination of experience and the instinctive knowledge we share with other animals in this area. I can't really think of any way my current sex life would have been improved if I had had access to all this visual info. Regarding sexual education, I think the most important information is about the various forms of birth control and how it can be obtained, and about safer sex options. Given all that, I do think the blind can face a real disadvantage when it comes to flirting and dating. This is not just because sighted people don't always feel comfortable around us, or don't think of us as sexual beings, but also because we can miss signals that someone is interested or don't know how to send appropriate signals when we are interested in someone else. Unfortunately there aren't easy solutions to many of these issues, because no matter how much training we might get, we still can't see the signals others are sending us. But there are some strategies we can use to meet people and to build friendships which might eventually evolve into romances. I do think having discussions about dating etc. as part of blindness training for teens and young adults is a good idea. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From sparklylicious at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 02:43:54 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:43:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2><-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid> <000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com> <45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <003101cd60a1$58c4b520$0a4e1f60$@gmail.com> Ashley, I believe someone in an earlier post said something along the lines of people find certain things a turn on. It is true that people do things from watching others, but a lot of what we're discussing on here is by feeling. People like certain things done to them and every person is different. A lot of this has to come from experimenting and finding out what your boyfriend/girlfriend likes and dislikes. hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hannah, sighted people are not taught about it because they see and observe how to do it and thereby learn it. No I don't think it’s a natural thing just learned by osmosis. I didn't know how to show love to my own family until someone showed me. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:17 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I would have to agree with you on this. I don't think sighted people are taught how to make out. It is something that comes to you naturally and you get better at it from experience... hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or different from what everyone else is getting. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not > knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and > I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make > babies, rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people > who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along > with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to > 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate- > in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front > of their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between > her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a > robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, > but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on > that question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way > too many times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle > school years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys > want to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't > even find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me > that spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are > what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >> don't see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? >>> Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? >>> All that we miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>> Sighted kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>> it's not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>> vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse >>> to obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>> love and be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>> our selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one >>> of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people >>> can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with >>> their lube where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>> brands to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>> masturbate without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>> baby, that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>> us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>> in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>> students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>> education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>> have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>> https://www.sur >>>>> veym >>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.com From sjhhirst at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 02:44:17 2012 From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie H. DeLuca) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:44:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I've been reading this thread and have a few comments: 1) I think this is a valid topic of conversation for this list, so long as we can proceed in a civil and intelligent manner. 2) I think sex education is very important - for everyone. It has been stated that humans don't need to be further educated in matters of sex, but I would have to disagree. We probably don't have to learn about HOW to have sex, but there are lot of implications - namely, unsafe sex is HUGE public health issue. We need to focus on teaching people the implications of having unsafe sex and TEACH them HOW to have SAFE sex. I am not a proponent of abstinence-only education, as people will always have pre-marital sex and have been doing so since the dawn human existence. The question is, how can we educate people to proceed in a safe manner and avoid STDs, pregnancy, and emotional damage? This is not an issue just for the blind and VI, but for everyone. 3) I think someone made a good point about how the blind and VI need better access to what sex education is available already. For example, there are anatomically accurate and useful 3D models of various body parts. These are often used in biology classes and in med schools. I think these could be a very useful, non-offensive way of presenting the material. Further, they could be used to teach people how to put on a condom, for example. This is important, regardless of if you're planning on having sex before or after marriage. A lot of sex ed is not really about anatomy, however. This information can take the form of graphs and charts, open discussion with teachers and peers, and reading assignments. 4) I think the use of words such as penis and vagina are perfectly fine, as they are anatomically accurate and informative. We shouldn't be afraid of stating what these things are. Part of sex education is to get people to feel that they can talk about it. This is important if, for example, someone is being sexually harassed or abused. If we are ashamed of talking about sex and the body parts involved, how can information be passed on? 5) I took the survey in less than 20 minutes and think it ca be potentially useful. It's not offensive or graphic, so don't be afraid to fill it out. In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854 On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Ashley, > I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you didn't > inform yourself, not because you are blind... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > > > Sophie, > > I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > supplements it. > > Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would > further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > > Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > > > > For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been > explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. > What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in > supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets nurishment > as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I don't > understand. > > They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > > But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started > labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby > til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She > informed me she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's > head came out first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from > her as I held my nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk and > limbs. I learned that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I > learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will > tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex > part sometime. > > > > I think I'll take that survey that started this. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Andrews > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > > help us with a current project. > > > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > > us > > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > > the > > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > > students > > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > > We want your voice to impact our work! > > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > > below: > > https://www.su > > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > Mika Baugh > > National Federation of the Blind > > 200 East Wells Street > > at Jernigan Place > > Baltimore, MD 21230 > > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > > W: www.nfb.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > > r%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 02:49:13 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:49:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi all, Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. Best, Arielle On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Ashley, > I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you didn't > inform yourself, not because you are blind... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> Sophie, >> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >> supplements it. >> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would >> further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >> >> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been >> explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. >> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in >> supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets nurishment >> as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I don't >> understand. >> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started labour >> in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby til >> next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She >> informed me she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's >> head came out first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from >> her as I held my nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk >> and limbs. I learned that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I >> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will >> tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex >> part sometime. >> >> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I >> took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very >> informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need >> a special curriculum for sex ed. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> >> I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> Dear NFB Member, >> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >> help us with a current project. >> >> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >> us >> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >> the >> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >> students >> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >> We want your voice to impact our work! >> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >> below: >> https://www.su >> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >> >> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> Mika Baugh >> National Federation of the Blind >> 200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >> Baltimore, MD 21230 >> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >> W: www.nfb.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 02:58:30 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:58:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <003101cd60a1$58c4b520$0a4e1f60$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2><-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid><000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com><45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> <003101cd60a1$58c4b520$0a4e1f60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hannah, I see what you're saying. Everyone is different and we will experiment like everyone else. But as long as sex ed is in schools, I'd say blind students should have equalivalent info. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I believe someone in an earlier post said something along the lines of people find certain things a turn on. It is true that people do things from watching others, but a lot of what we're discussing on here is by feeling. People like certain things done to them and every person is different. A lot of this has to come from experimenting and finding out what your boyfriend/girlfriend likes and dislikes. hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hannah, sighted people are not taught about it because they see and observe how to do it and thereby learn it. No I don't think it’s a natural thing just learned by osmosis. I didn't know how to show love to my own family until someone showed me. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:17 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I would have to agree with you on this. I don't think sighted people are taught how to make out. It is something that comes to you naturally and you get better at it from experience... hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or different from what everyone else is getting. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not > knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and > I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make > babies, rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people > who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along > with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to > 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate- > in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front > of their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between > her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a > robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, > but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on > that question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way > too many times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle > school years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys > want to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't > even find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me > that spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are > what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >> don't see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? >>> Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? >>> All that we miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>> Sighted kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>> it's not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>> vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse >>> to obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>> love and be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>> our selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one >>> of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people >>> can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with >>> their lube where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>> brands to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>> masturbate without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>> baby, that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>> us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>> in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>> students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>> education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>> have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>> https://www.sur >>>>> veym >>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 03:02:18 2012 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:02:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <010501cd60a3$ea7d5330$bf77f990$@gmail.com> While I think that many of the points that have been raised on this thread have been valid and worth discussing, I think the thread has pretty much run its course. The initial email pertained to a survey regarding access to sex education information for blind students. This is a worthwhile project. I'm not sure where the issues of the "how to's" of sex came into the equation. Different folks with different values will have differing opinions on what kind of information pertaining to sex should be taught, and by whom. This is not a debate we need to hash out on this list. If folks want to carry on the conversation individually via private email, by all means, but I'd respectfully ask that we desist the conversation related to what appropriate sex education looks like and who ought to be receiving it. On a final related point, I know of plenty of blind people who did not need to have making out or sex described to them, or feel a naked woman or man, to get the idea. Like sighted individuals, blind people all have varying levels of knowledge about, comfort with, and opinions on sex. That is just fine, but it isn't really an issue relevant to the initial post about access to information and materials found in a predefined curriculum. Thank you, Sean From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 03:07:13 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:07:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi all, I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or at least the age of consent. I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it for those who really could use this information. On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > questions, you can email me offlist at > arielle71 at gmail.com > Seriously, I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> Ashley, >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you didn't >> inform yourself, not because you are blind... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> wrote: >> >>> Sophie, >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>> supplements it. >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would >>> further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>> >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been >>> explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in >>> supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>> nurishment >>> as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I >>> don't >>> understand. >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>> labour >>> in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby til >>> next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She >>> informed me she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's >>> head came out first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned >>> from >>> her as I held my nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk >>> and limbs. I learned that babies cried after they came out of the womb. >>> I >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey >>> will >>> tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex >>> part sometime. >>> >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I >>> took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very >>> informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need >>> a special curriculum for sex ed. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear NFB Member, >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>> help us with a current project. >>> >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>> us >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >>> the >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>> students >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>> below: >>> https://www.su >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>> >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Mika Baugh >>> National Federation of the Blind >>> 200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>> W: www.nfb.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 03:11:40 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:11:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <010501cd60a3$ea7d5330$bf77f990$@gmail.com> References: <010501cd60a3$ea7d5330$bf77f990$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sean: I guess, I motioned first, to stop the conversation here, and you seconded, so I agree that it should stop, (LOL!) Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, nabs.president at gmail.com wrote: > While I think that many of the points that have been raised on this thread > have been valid and worth discussing, I think the thread has pretty much > run > its course. The initial email pertained to a survey regarding access to sex > education information for blind students. This is a worthwhile project. I'm > not sure where the issues of the "how to's" of sex came into the equation. > > > > Different folks with different values will have differing opinions on what > kind of information pertaining to sex should be taught, and by whom. This > is > not a debate we need to hash out on this list. If folks want to carry on > the > conversation individually via private email, by all means, but I'd > respectfully ask that we desist the conversation related to what > appropriate > sex education looks like and who ought to be receiving it. > > > > On a final related point, I know of plenty of blind people who did not need > to have making out or sex described to them, or feel a naked woman or man, > to get the idea. Like sighted individuals, blind people all have varying > levels of knowledge about, comfort with, and opinions on sex. That is just > fine, but it isn't really an issue relevant to the initial post about > access > to information and materials found in a predefined curriculum. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 03:54:32 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:54:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Experience Message-ID: Hi all How do I gain the necessary experience to write papers in the graduate level? I mean what am I doing wrong I'm not a fantastic writer after 4 years of a undergraduate study? I feel like I haven't even learned anything during my 4 year college stint. Deb Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 04:04:27 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:04:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: How about braille & large print sex ed books? What about 1 of those anatomy dummies so people who can't see could feel the organs? I took a regular sex ed class doing it just fine. Haven took the sociology of sexuality getting an A. I don't see how or why the class would have to be modified for blind & low vision. Braille large print and audio material should be enough for a blind/low vision individual. Deb On Jul 12, 2012 5:45 PM, "Anjelina" wrote: > While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body > parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. > I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is > most certainly something which should be further explored. > > -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Brandon, > > Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of the > things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so > explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description like > that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this > explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so > ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you > post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on > females, so why use it here? > > Sincerely, > Humberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] > On Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a > guy, > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're > supposed > > to stick your peaness into it... > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first > sexual > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's > like > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > (New advertisement for birth control!) > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> first >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> other >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >> can >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time I >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA >> I >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >> was >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> love >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> stuck >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that was >> just so unexpected. >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >> Of >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >> romantic >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >> what >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> thought >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> women >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've come >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >> things that are a part of romance. >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >> talk >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> delayed >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first time >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >> I've >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> breasts >> >> are private on a woman...) >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >> plus >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, >> > > I >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >> household. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey >>> is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>> learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>> functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>> know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>>> on >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>> us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>> >>>>>> >https://**www.surveym >>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> asp?URL=https:/ >>>>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/**sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>> E: mbaugh@**nfb.org >>>>>> W: www.nfb.**org >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu > >> >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > bookwormahb%40earthlink > . > net > >> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m > >> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m > >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 04:09:28 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:09:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <4fff9f88.0e0c650a.28cb.2e5d@mx.google.com> The biology class at my high school does a unit on the human reproductive system and how it works. Maybe if more biology classes went into that, it could improve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rveym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 04:10:59 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:10:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info Message-ID: <4fff9fd6.c439320a.5ba5.1d4d@mx.google.com> Well said, Arielle. I would say that there are guys who send me the wrong signals themselves and they are sighted. I think animals have the same instinctive knowledge we do as you said. I'm a bit of a visual learner myself, so looking at cells is out of the question when it comes to biology. I wouldn't mind if someone showed me a diagram, but doing experiments with cells and cellular things is just not my thing. I wanted to study marine biology, and pulled an A in my high school bioogy class. Boy, the teacher was tough! As for the sex ed stuff, you're right. Who needs all that visual info? But there's a way to do safe sex, and I learned that with my current and past boyfriends. Honestly, I should know about safe sex, and the things we know about safe sex are limited to us because people think we're "neutered." I have a book about sex and disability that has a great introduction to it. Lots of couples share their stories in the book, and there's a section about blindness in it that might be interesfting if you want me to copy and send it to you via email. There's some interesting stuff that some blind people actually think about sex, and they say it's a feast for the senses. I don't know, but I think sex ed is important, and yes, this book covers safe sex options and then reproductive options if the couple wants kids. Well done, Arielle, Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Valerie Gibson Huh? Whauft is the Perkins Mini? Is it a Braille display? If so, it might not be worthy of my money because it would cost thousands of dollars, and I'm sorry, but thousands of dollars is too much money. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> <004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Agreed! I think that this thread needs to go, now! Thanks, Joshua On 7/12/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > How about braille & large print sex ed books? > What about 1 of those anatomy dummies so people who can't see could feel > the organs? > I took a regular sex ed class doing it just fine. > Haven took the sociology of sexuality getting an A. > I don't see how or why the class would have to be modified for blind & low > vision. > Braille large print and audio material should be enough for a blind/low > vision individual. > Deb > On Jul 12, 2012 5:45 PM, "Anjelina" wrote: > >> While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body >> parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. >> I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is >> most certainly something which should be further explored. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Brandon, >> >> Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of >> the >> things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so >> explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description >> like >> that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this >> explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so >> ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you >> post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on >> females, so why use it here? >> >> Sincerely, >> Humberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >> On Behalf >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone >> talk >> about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually >> seeing >> a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a >> man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a >> guy, >> >> it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're >> supposed >> >> to stick your peaness into it... >> We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind >> girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that >> having >> sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first >> sexual >> >> encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd >> get >> scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's >> like >> >> a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. >> (New advertisement for birth control!) >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of >> thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs >> sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a >> whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a >> separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I >> do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job >> searching and resume building and things like that, these topics >> should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important >> topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it >> more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind >> psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some >> first-hand experience and knowledge. >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >>> first >>> >>> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >>> other >>> >>> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >>> can >>> >>> be more than a brush of the lips. >>> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time >>> I >>> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my >>> PDA >>> I >>> >>> was like, That's gross!!! >>> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >>> was >>> >>> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >>> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >>> love >>> >>> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >>> stuck >>> >>> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >>> was >>> just so unexpected. >>> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >>> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >>> Of >>> >>> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >>> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >>> romantic >>> >>> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >>> what >>> >>> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >>> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >>> thought >>> >>> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >>> women >>> >>> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >>> come >>> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my >>> active >>> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >>> things that are a part of romance. >>> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >>> talk >>> >>> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >>> delayed >>> >>> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >>> time >>> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >>> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >>> I've >>> >>> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >>> breasts >>> >>> are private on a woman...) >>> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >>> women's >>> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >>> plus >>> >>> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >>> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >>> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >>> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >>> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >>> play, >>> >> >> I >>> >>> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >>> household. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi Brandon, >>> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >>> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >>> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >>> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >>> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >>> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >>> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >>> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >>> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >>> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >>> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >>> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >>> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >>> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >>> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >>> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >>> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >>> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >>> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >>> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >>> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >>> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >>> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >>> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >>> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >>> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >>> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >>> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >>> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >>> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >>> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >>> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> >>>> Joshua, >>>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>>> survey >>>> is a good idea. >>>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>>> what >>>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>>> learn >>>> >>>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>>> functions; >>>> >>>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>>> know >>>> >>>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>>> I >>>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi, Amber! >>>> You're right! >>>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Joshua, >>>>> >>>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>>> guess? >>>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>>> you >>>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>>> doesn't >>>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>>> written >>>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>>> >>>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> Impossible is not a word >>>>> It's just a reason >>>>> For someone not to try >>>>> >>>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> When they decide to take that step >>>>> Out on the water >>>>> It'll be alright >>>>> >>>>> Life is so much more >>>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> You will find your way >>>>> If you keep believing" >>>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>>>> on >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>> >>>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>>> proposed >>>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>>> being >>>>> shown, in those slides? >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >https://**www.surveym >>>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> asp?URL=https:/ >>>>>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/**sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>> E: mbaugh@**nfb.org >>>>>>> W: www.nfb.**org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>> jlester8462%40stud >>>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> jlester8462%40students.p >> ccua.edu >> >>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink >> . >> net >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >> >>> >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >> >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> >> Anjelina >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 04:12:19 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:12:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff9f88.0e0c650a.28cb.2e5d@mx.google.com> References: <4fff9f88.0e0c650a.28cb.2e5d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I agree. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > The biology class at my high school does a unit on the human > reproductive system and how it works. Maybe if more biology > classes went into that, it could improve. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber R. Herrin" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:47:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Sophie, > > Thanks for saying this. I kind of started to feel as though I > was alone in > the idea that watching people make out is totally not on my list > of > must-tries. > > Also, I am thinking that, while there are things that children > should learn > to be prepared to maintain their health, it doesn't have to > become a > "sexual" issue. Technically, this is biology. Sooo...Why isn't > it > incorporated into a biology class, where it would be treated as a > scientific > issue rather than a risqué thing that all teens can't wait to get > into? > > Best, > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:39 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Brandon, it's not that we're not tought how to be happy, give > pleasure, and > all that other stuff. It's just that... well, no offense, but > most of that > stuff you said was a little gross. I mean, I reeeeeeeeally don't > need to > know if there's a couple making out in front of me on the bus. I > can get > descriptions of that stuff from books. And those are plenty > descriptive > enough for me, thanks. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:46:05 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hello, > Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard > of playboy > or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the > bus? Or the > gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All > that we miss > because we're blind. > Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. > Sighted kids > get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person > supposed to > know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they > know it's not > just a cut or dehydration? > Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and > vagina in > class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? > Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such > a > suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance > abuse to obtain > pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't > we taught to > utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To > love and be > happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to > love our > selves in school? > It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words > human > beings, but that's kind of a different issue. > But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it > instead of > the droll thing they have now. > > btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is > a blind > person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt > one or > tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for > contraception's? > Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand > do you > want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your > favorite?" > Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? > We've got > small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and > wide. Here > are some flavors as well..." > > That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's > one of the > really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can > be > unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their > lube where > as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what > brands to > get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my > parents, > but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. > It's a serious issue and this program will help address those > problems. And > what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where > masturbation is > talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy > masturbate without > making a mess? > Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form > a baby, > that's more science. > Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way > short in > when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dear Joshua, > > I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about > sex, > before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, > I guess? > Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone > believes you > should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind > doesn't > prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read > books written > on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > > Amber R. Herrin > Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the > new proposed > curriculum, that they're wanting. > I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, > what's being > shown, in those slides? > Good grief! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us > with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us write a > curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area > of sex > education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low > vision and > blindness that reflect current education standards. Young > people, > educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a > desperate > need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveym > onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > tps:/ > /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stud > ents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 04:14:54 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:14:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device In-Reply-To: <4fff9fd8.c439320a.5ba5.1d4e@mx.google.com> References: <4fff9fd8.c439320a.5ba5.1d4e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It's a notetaker, that has a 16 cell Braille display. They're only charging $1500.00 for it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/12/12, Beth wrote: > Huh? Whauft is the Perkins Mini? Is it a Braille display? If > so, it might not be worthy of my money because it would cost > thousands of dollars, and I'm sorry, but thousands of dollars is > too much money. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:01:16 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device > > I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 > cells. > What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth > my money? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 04:16:25 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:16:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Message-ID: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, we had notes to read that described it very well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From gpaikens at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 05:27:41 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:27:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <270CF94F-8F78-4E8D-8385-6722ADDE3A40@gmail.com> Hi deb, Lots of first year grad students feel that way. Graduate work in any field is a whole new level and each field has elements of writing that are more important etc. Both of the schools I attended for graduate level work offered seminars and writing workshops for people who needed to hone their writing skills. many universities have a writing center to help students. Don't hesitate to take advantage of these resources. If its a matter of improving your writing to get into a graduate program, you could ask other skilled writers to look at your work, like you have done so on this list already. Btw, I would not mind looking over your essay, I just neglected to respond earlier. Hope this helps, Greg On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:54 PM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Hi all > How do I gain the necessary experience to write papers in the graduate > level? > I mean what am I doing wrong I'm not a fantastic writer after 4 years of a > undergraduate study? > I feel like I haven't even learned anything during my 4 year college stint. > Deb > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 05:32:46 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:32:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> References: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, My problem with the current mottles are that they are gross. They are hard and as synthetic as possible. The way they are presented make one never want to see a peaness or vagina. They may work for putting in a condom or a diaphragm, but past that point they just bring disgust to their users. Any mottles should be at least somewhat realistic, because otherwise it will scare the blind person from having anything to do with sex. That sweetish class sounds very awesome, perhaps if the teacher stripped down, the students would treat sex ed as a cereous topic. I don't think anyone should be embarrassed about sex or sexual matters and I think children should be given the truth. They have a peaness and a vagina and when they are old enough to ask about what it is, they are almost old enough to deal with the issues that come with their body demanding babies. BTW Ashley, I know how hard it is to get your hands on a condom and I know how hard it is to get your hands on a new born baby. A condom looks like a long, thin, rubber sleeve with a big ring at the base. There's a little pouch on the end that's smaller than the main part. When a condom is in a package It's a little 1.5-2 inch square package that feels like there is a ring in it. When the condom is taken out of the package, it's like a ring with a rubber Curtin in the middle. You can find the side that is supposed to fit over the peaness by either blowing on it or feeling to see where that little pouch or bubble is poking out. The side that is poking out is the side that stays on the outside. They kind of feel like a finger of a latex glove. WARNING! If your boyfriend wants to be cool and either: wear a flavored condom, glow in the dark condom, extra large condom or any condom that's not considered plane, don't do penetration. Most of those fancy condoms are meant for oral sex and generally are weaker than the plane condoms. A diaphragm is kind of the same idea, except it is inserted into the vagina and can often stay there for a couple hours where as a condom has to be used right away. Also note, condoms aren't meant to be used more than once, so be aware of that when you go in for the second time. They are thin and the guy doesn't always notice that the condom has broken. A baby's umbilical chord sticks out of their belly button. (You ever wonder what that strange indentation is fore?) It is a feeding tube that goes right into the baby's stomach. One end is attached to the mom somewhere in the uterus and the other comes out of the babies bellybutton. The chord is cut in order to remove the baby from a physical attachment to the mother. Beyond that, take a biology class, it is a lot more detailed, but that is the idea. You could also Google it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, we had notes to read that described it very well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 05:46:34 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 22:46:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2><-8733732761508217651@unknownmsgid><000001cd607c$2df87040$89e950c0$@gmail.com><45AC21A32DBB4CEC9AD64A98C619203E@OwnerPC> <003101cd60a1$58c4b520$0a4e1f60$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701cd60ba$dd82c1d0$98884570$@gmail.com> Ashley, I took sex ed in school and everything was made accessible for me. I do however understand that not everyone can get accessible material for one reason or another. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hannah, I see what you're saying. Everyone is different and we will experiment like everyone else. But as long as sex ed is in schools, I'd say blind students should have equalivalent info. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I believe someone in an earlier post said something along the lines of people find certain things a turn on. It is true that people do things from watching others, but a lot of what we're discussing on here is by feeling. People like certain things done to them and every person is different. A lot of this has to come from experimenting and finding out what your boyfriend/girlfriend likes and dislikes. hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hannah, sighted people are not taught about it because they see and observe how to do it and thereby learn it. No I don't think it’s a natural thing just learned by osmosis. I didn't know how to show love to my own family until someone showed me. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:17 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I would have to agree with you on this. I don't think sighted people are taught how to make out. It is something that comes to you naturally and you get better at it from experience... hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Brandon, I think you are exaggerating a little bit... It doesn't make sense to me that blind people should be taught all these things with such detail just because they are blind. I was never taught how to make out. I imagine that would be very awkward and mostly making out is a natural thing that people do. You put your hand on someone's neck or you touch their hair because it feels good, not because you're supposed to do it that way. I think it's silly to prettend that sex is not around us just because we can't see it, but I don't really feel like we need anything specific or different from what everyone else is getting. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not > knowing what the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it is in the first place. > I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and > I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes sex should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human. > We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make > babies, rays those babies and die. > What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. > I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people > who celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the book. > It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along > with reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers are out and glairing: > "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to > 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." > http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate- > in-the-usa.html If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. > > Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you understand how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who understood you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you were put into a conservative household? > I shutter to think how horrible that would be. > > A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with hurpies may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's important! > It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child developmentally delayed if not addressed. > > My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front > of their apartment building and how passionate they are: > "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." > > It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between > her hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and don't know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the bus? How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. > > If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw > Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a > robot...) It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. > This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally different class of their own. > > What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, > but most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify sexual interest. > How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on > that question. > How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way > too many times from different blind teens in high school. > How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle > school years. > How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys > want to take this one? > How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... > How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't > even find her! > What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me > that spot was private...! > > These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are > what I think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance class. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi, > Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I > have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these > things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching > people make out or get physical, and this could even include their > parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most > are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom > side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, > "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right > precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out > avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information > directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual > experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there > are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships > don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, > their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a > young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments > with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to > support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots > of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and > that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but > also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can > turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction > with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and > parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as > sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about > the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, > JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works > most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing > by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. > Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an > educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are > experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They > talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these > topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. > Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or > acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going > to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity > being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people > are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. > There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental > reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be > that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex > than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak > from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I > shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the > physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God > forbid a blind person should become a parent. > In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written > up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, > blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel > that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the > sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and > embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in > general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to > let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher > can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If > psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain > objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's > sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something > that's way far from the root of the problem. > > On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >> don't see. >> JMHO! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>> playboy >>> >>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? >>> Or the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? >>> All that we miss >>> >>> because we're blind. >>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. >>> Sighted kids >>> >>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>> supposed to >>> >>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>> it's not >>> >>> just a cut or dehydration? >>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and >>> vagina in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse >>> to obtain >>> >>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>> taught to >>> >>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To >>> love and be >>> >>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love >>> our selves in school? >>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words >>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it >>> instead of the droll thing they have now. >>> >>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't >>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do >>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>> Here >>> are some flavors as well..." >>> >>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one >>> of the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people >>> can be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with >>> their lube where >>> >>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>> brands to >>> >>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>> And >>> >>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation >>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy >>> masturbate without >>> >>> making a mess? >>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>> baby, that's more science. >>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way >>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted >>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or >>> read books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>> just a reason For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>> us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>> in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>> students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>> education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>> have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>> https://www.sur >>>>> veym >>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohi >>> o.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbigg >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st >>> udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 06:03:43 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:03:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <003f01cd60bd$42d42fe0$c87c8fa0$@gmail.com> Brandon, There are art classes that use real models. If you really wanted to, you can take a class and ask if you could feel them so you could draw like your sighted peers. That way, you would get a lesson on both the body and on drawing the model. Just a thought. hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hello, My problem with the current mottles are that they are gross. They are hard and as synthetic as possible. The way they are presented make one never want to see a peaness or vagina. They may work for putting in a condom or a diaphragm, but past that point they just bring disgust to their users. Any mottles should be at least somewhat realistic, because otherwise it will scare the blind person from having anything to do with sex. That sweetish class sounds very awesome, perhaps if the teacher stripped down, the students would treat sex ed as a cereous topic. I don't think anyone should be embarrassed about sex or sexual matters and I think children should be given the truth. They have a peaness and a vagina and when they are old enough to ask about what it is, they are almost old enough to deal with the issues that come with their body demanding babies. BTW Ashley, I know how hard it is to get your hands on a condom and I know how hard it is to get your hands on a new born baby. A condom looks like a long, thin, rubber sleeve with a big ring at the base. There's a little pouch on the end that's smaller than the main part. When a condom is in a package It's a little 1.5-2 inch square package that feels like there is a ring in it. When the condom is taken out of the package, it's like a ring with a rubber Curtin in the middle. You can find the side that is supposed to fit over the peaness by either blowing on it or feeling to see where that little pouch or bubble is poking out. The side that is poking out is the side that stays on the outside. They kind of feel like a finger of a latex glove. WARNING! If your boyfriend wants to be cool and either: wear a flavored condom, glow in the dark condom, extra large condom or any condom that's not considered plane, don't do penetration. Most of those fancy condoms are meant for oral sex and generally are weaker than the plane condoms. A diaphragm is kind of the same idea, except it is inserted into the vagina and can often stay there for a couple hours where as a condom has to be used right away. Also note, condoms aren't meant to be used more than once, so be aware of that when you go in for the second time. They are thin and the guy doesn't always notice that the condom has broken. A baby's umbilical chord sticks out of their belly button. (You ever wonder what that strange indentation is fore?) It is a feeding tube that goes right into the baby's stomach. One end is attached to the mom somewhere in the uterus and the other comes out of the babies bellybutton. The chord is cut in order to remove the baby from a physical attachment to the mother. Beyond that, take a biology class, it is a lot more detailed, but that is the idea. You could also Google it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, we had notes to read that described it very well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 06:24:18 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 02:24:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info In-Reply-To: <4fff9fd6.c439320a.5ba5.1d4d@mx.google.com> References: <4fff9fd6.c439320a.5ba5.1d4d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, What's the name of the book? I would be interested in reading it. On 7/13/12, Beth wrote: > Well said, Arielle. I would say that there are guys who send me > the wrong signals themselves and they are sighted. I think > animals have the same instinctive knowledge we do as you said. > I'm a bit of a visual learner myself, so looking at cells is out > of the question when it comes to biology. I wouldn't mind if > someone showed me a diagram, but doing experiments with cells and > cellular things is just not my thing. I wanted to study marine > biology, and pulled an A in my high school bioogy class. Boy, > the teacher was tough! As for the sex ed stuff, you're right. > Who needs all that visual info? But there's a way to do safe > sex, and I learned that with my current and past boyfriends. > Honestly, I should know about safe sex, and the things we know > about safe sex are limited to us because people think we're > "neutered." I have a book about sex and disability that has a > great introduction to it. Lots of couples share their stories in > the book, and there's a section about blindness in it that might > be interesfting if you want me to copy and send it to you via > email. There's some interesting stuff that some blind people > actually think about sex, and they say it's a feast for the > senses. I don't know, but I think sex ed is important, and yes, > this book covers safe sex options and then reproductive options > if the couple wants kids. > Well done, Arielle, > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Valerie Gibson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:51:36 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Ed, and Missing Visual Info > > Well said, Arielle, as always. :) > On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > Hi all, > I agree with the opinion that blind students don't really need a > special sex ed curriculum just for us, any more than we need a > specialized math or geography or biology curriculum. Instead, we > should have access to the materials given to sighted students in > an > accessible format, and we should be able to find books about sex > in > Braille and to find Internet resources we can browse privately > if we > have questions or concerns. > While we have probably talked this particular issue to death, I > do > think this discussion brings up some important and controversial > questions about how we should cope with all the visual > information we > don't routinely get that sighted people get. It is quite clear > that > sighted people observe lots of things around them visually that > blind > people don't automatically observe. However, it is also quite > clear > that blind people can function well in society, get an > education, > work, have hobbies, marry, raise kids and generally do all the > things > sighted people do, without all this incidental visual info. And > blind > people are no less intelligent than sighted people simply > because of > this lack of exposure to the visual world. It makes me wonder, > How > much of that visual info is really critically necessary for us > to > function? How much effort do we really need to put in to get > access to > all that visual info? In my experience, I believe part of being > a > successful blind person is figuring out what visual info is > really > critically important for a given job or task, getting access to > that > critical info and just not spending too much effort on those > things > that aren't critically important. Sitting around mourning all > the > visual info we miss out on, by itself, doesn't get us very far. > To give an example that moves this topic back to academics, I > earned a > bachelor's degree in biology in 2007. I have been totally blind > my > whole life and I haven't a clue what most plants, animals and > fungi > look like. I only vaguely know what a cell or a chromosome looks > like. > Nevertheless, I earned my biology degree and I dare say, got > higher > grades than many of my sighted classmates. It turned out that > knowing > what living things look like is not very important for > understanding > biology. What does matter is understanding what part of the cell > does > what function, the steps of photosynthesis, cellular > respiration, and > DNA replication, and how genetic traits are inherited. So I > learned > these things and just didn't worry about all that visual stuff. > If any > of it had turned out to matter, then I would have gotten some > tactile > diagrams and worked with someone to ensure I understood what > these > things looked like. But it didn't matter and so I didn't worry > about > it. I could have chosen not to study biology because of concerns > that > the curriculum for sighted students is so visual, but instead of > focusing on what I was missing, I found myself able to focus on > what I > could process with my mind like everyone else did, and I was > fine. > Similarly, with sex, it's true that we often don't know what a > lot of > things look like, but again, in my experience this hasn't put me > at a > significant disadvantage. I don't know what a diaphragm looks > like but > I do know how it is supposed to be used and what the benefits > and > disadvantages are of this particular birth control method. I did > not > know exactly what the male sex organs look like until my first > sexual > encounter when I was 21, but that really had no effect on my > participation in sex. I have not seen couples making out on the > street, or engaging in sexual acts, but I learned how to do > these > things through a combination of experience and the instinctive > knowledge we share with other animals in this area. I can't > really > think of any way my current sex life would have been improved if > I had > had access to all this visual info. Regarding sexual education, > I > think the most important information is about the various forms > of > birth control and how it can be obtained, and about safer sex > options. > Given all that, I do think the blind can face a real > disadvantage when > it comes to flirting and dating. This is not just because > sighted > people don't always feel comfortable around us, or don't think > of us > as sexual beings, but also because we can miss signals that > someone is > interested or don't know how to send appropriate signals when we > are > interested in someone else. Unfortunately there aren't easy > solutions > to many of these issues, because no matter how much training we > might > get, we still can't see the signals others are sending us. But > there > are some strategies we can use to meet people and to build > friendships > which might eventually evolve into romances. I do think having > discussions about dating etc. as part of blindness training for > teens > and young adults is a good idea. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu Fri Jul 13 06:24:01 2012 From: wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu (Grussenmeyer, William Daniel) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:24:01 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Experience In-Reply-To: <270CF94F-8F78-4E8D-8385-6722ADDE3A40@gmail.com> References: , <270CF94F-8F78-4E8D-8385-6722ADDE3A40@gmail.com> Message-ID: hey Deb, I graduated from UC-Davis in 2004 with a BA in english literature (creative writing emphasis) and philosophy. In all my studies I found an extremely good book on writing skills and writing in general. It is applicable to any type of writing, technical and non-technical, and applicable to any level of writing skill and any major. I'd recommend anyone on this list looking to improve their writing skills to read this book. It is a very short book and you can find it on bookshare.org in daisy, audio, or braille. To convince you some more here are a few quotes from the preface by the author: "Books on writing tend to be windy, boring, and impractical. I intend this one to be different--short, fun, and genuinely useful. My chief goal is to take the mystery out of how skilled writers think, so you can begin thinking like them yourself. But beyond that, I want to share some ... What I offer here is practical shoptalk for armchair consumption-- in effect, an informal four-hour refresher course, with the emphasis on refreshment." Here's the name of the book and its author. You can get it on bookshare.org Conversations on the Art of Writing Second Edition John R. Trimble The University of Texas at Austin --bill ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Greg Aikens [gpaikens at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Writing Experience Hi deb, Lots of first year grad students feel that way. Graduate work in any field is a whole new level and each field has elements of writing that are more important etc. Both of the schools I attended for graduate level work offered seminars and writing workshops for people who needed to hone their writing skills. many universities have a writing center to help students. Don't hesitate to take advantage of these resources. If its a matter of improving your writing to get into a graduate program, you could ask other skilled writers to look at your work, like you have done so on this list already. Btw, I would not mind looking over your essay, I just neglected to respond earlier. Hope this helps, Greg On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:54 PM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Hi all > How do I gain the necessary experience to write papers in the graduate > level? > I mean what am I doing wrong I'm not a fantastic writer after 4 years of a > undergraduate study? > I feel like I haven't even learned anything during my 4 year college stint. > Deb > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg22%40saclink.csus.edu From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Jul 13 08:57:01 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 03:57:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Brandon, that's enough! Please! I'm no prude, but some discussions are best had off forum. And for goodness sake, most blind folks do fine with appropriately presented information such as a model or tactile graphic. Sex ed is presented to sighted students in a much less graphic manner than you imagine; and it's not practical or appropriate to our culture to present live models in class for anyone. And frankly, it's worth repeating that sighted people vary in their knowledge as we do, so I think it unwise to presume naievte on our part on account of blindness. Ashley, Planned Parenthood, your school's LGBT group, the internet, NLS/BookShare, and your local college's sexual awareness center are all great places to learn about sex including contraception if your knowledge seems insufficient. I don't mind discussion about mature relationships as long as it doesn't become inappropriate, and our discussion has overstepped what most would consider appropriate for a public forum. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On 13/07/2012, at 12:32 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > My problem with the current mottles are that they are gross. > They are hard and as synthetic as possible. The way they are presented make one never want to see a peaness or vagina. They may work for putting in a condom or a diaphragm, but past that point they just bring disgust to their users. > Any mottles should be at least somewhat realistic, because otherwise it will scare the blind person from having anything to do with sex. > That sweetish class sounds very awesome, perhaps if the teacher stripped down, the students would treat sex ed as a cereous topic. I don't think anyone should be embarrassed about sex or sexual matters and I think children should be given the truth. They have a peaness and a vagina and when they are old enough to ask about what it is, they are almost old enough to deal with the issues that come with their body demanding babies. > > BTW Ashley, I know how hard it is to get your hands on a condom and I know how hard it is to get your hands on a new born baby. > A condom looks like a long, thin, rubber sleeve with a big ring at the base. There's a little pouch on the end that's smaller than the main part. When a condom is in a package It's a little 1.5-2 inch square package that feels like there is a ring in it. When the condom is taken out of the package, it's like a ring with a rubber Curtin in the middle. You can find the side that is supposed to fit over the peaness by either blowing on it or feeling to see where that little pouch or bubble is poking out. The side that is poking out is the side that stays on the outside. > They kind of feel like a finger of a latex glove. > WARNING! If your boyfriend wants to be cool and either: wear a flavored condom, glow in the dark condom, extra large condom or any condom that's not considered plane, don't do penetration. Most of those fancy condoms are meant for oral sex and generally are weaker than the plane condoms. A diaphragm is kind of the same idea, except it is inserted into the vagina and can often stay there for a couple hours where as a condom has to be used right away. > Also note, condoms aren't meant to be used more than once, so be aware of that when you go in for the second time. They are thin and the guy doesn't always notice that the condom has broken. > > A baby's umbilical chord sticks out of their belly button. (You ever wonder what that strange indentation is fore?) It is a feeding tube that goes right into the baby's stomach. One end is attached to the mom somewhere in the uterus and the other comes out of the babies bellybutton. The chord is cut in order to remove the baby from a physical attachment to the mother. > Beyond that, take a biology class, it is a lot more detailed, but that is the idea. You could also Google it. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My > teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, > we had notes to read that described it very well. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:21:22 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Sophie, > I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > knowledge > usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > supplements it. > Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model > would > further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > > For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen > or been > explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its > about. > What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its > role in > supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets > nurishment as > its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I > don't > understand. > They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she > started labour > in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the > baby til next > afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She > informed me > she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's head > came out > first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from her > as I held my > nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk and limbs. > I learned > that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I learned that > infants > needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will tell me > more about her > pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > > I think I'll take that survey that started this. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 11:28:36 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:28:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C24F1682809438A84AC2AE69CD7E546@OwnerPC> Deb, We'd need more info. What exactly is your weakness? I improved just by writing more; but english was always a stronger subject for me. What was your major? I feel that my undergrad classes did not teach writing as well as they could. Only my freshman composition class and upper level english 301 class called writing process discussed the writing process. We learned about drafting, editing and final drafts. We did peer editing a lot as well. I believe colleges need to do a better job about teaching research skills and how to construct an argument in a paper and how to write clearly. You'd be surprised of the number of graduates who do not know how to spell well, do not know where to place commas, and don't write grammatically correct sentences. To improve writing scholarly papers, my first thought is read more. Read research articles in your field. Typically, there is four or five sections: an introduction, method, results, discussion and conclusion. My second thought is to visit the college writing center if your school has one. At mine, they would assist you in revising the paper by checking it over and giving suggestions. They even helped with constructing references list if needed. I might have more ideas if I know what you are looking for. This is one area where I think we need more access! Well all students do. But we don't have access to those quick reference guides many students use. I had to get a reader to look stuff up for me in mine. Yes, I know learning ally has some of them, but you cannot look stuff up there. You have to know what page x topic is on to read it. You seem to write okay to me; you write in sentences and spell correctly, so I believe you have the basics. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Experience Hi all How do I gain the necessary experience to write papers in the graduate level? I mean what am I doing wrong I'm not a fantastic writer after 4 years of a undergraduate study? I feel like I haven't even learned anything during my 4 year college stint. Deb Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 11:31:25 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:31:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC><370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2><004301cd608d$53cd9690$fb68c3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Joshua, Please don't say the same things multiple times Wow, this generated lots of traffic. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:11 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Agreed! I think that this thread needs to go, now! Thanks, Joshua On 7/12/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > How about braille & large print sex ed books? > What about 1 of those anatomy dummies so people who can't see could feel > the organs? > I took a regular sex ed class doing it just fine. > Haven took the sociology of sexuality getting an A. > I don't see how or why the class would have to be modified for blind & low > vision. > Braille large print and audio material should be enough for a blind/low > vision individual. > Deb > On Jul 12, 2012 5:45 PM, "Anjelina" wrote: > >> While Brandon's descriptions were vivid, I believe it's best to call body >> parts by their proper names and his points are quite realistic. >> I'm not sure if this discussion is appropriate for the list, but it is >> most certainly something which should be further explored. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:20 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Dear Brandon, >> >> Thank you for your contributions to this topic and I agree about 70% of >> the >> things you've said. However, with this one, I think you went so, so >> explicit. Not even books on Web Braille have the specific description >> like >> that, even if it says, "Explicit descriptions of sex." I'm not sure this >> explicit language is ever appropriate for any NFBNet list serve what so >> ever. I'm not stopping you, but please be a little extra careful when you >> post these things. I understand the P word on male and the v word on >> females, so why use it here? >> >> Sincerely, >> Humberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >> On Behalf >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone >> talk >> about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually >> seeing >> a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a >> man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same with a >> guy, >> >> it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before you're >> supposed >> >> to stick your peaness into it... >> We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind >> girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that >> having >> sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her first >> sexual >> >> encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd >> get >> scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams and he's >> like >> >> a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. >> (New advertisement for birth control!) >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of >> thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs >> sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a >> whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a >> separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I >> do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job >> searching and resume building and things like that, these topics >> should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important >> topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it >> more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind >> psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some >> first-hand experience and knowledge. >> >> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >>> first >>> >>> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >>> other >>> >>> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing >>> can >>> >>> be more than a brush of the lips. >>> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time >>> I >>> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my >>> PDA >>> I >>> >>> was like, That's gross!!! >>> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how >>> was >>> >>> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >>> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >>> love >>> >>> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >>> stuck >>> >>> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >>> was >>> just so unexpected. >>> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >>> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. >>> Of >>> >>> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, >>> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >>> romantic >>> >>> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is >>> what >>> >>> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >>> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >>> thought >>> >>> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >>> women >>> >>> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >>> come >>> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my >>> active >>> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >>> things that are a part of romance. >>> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to >>> talk >>> >>> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >>> delayed >>> >>> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >>> time >>> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked >>> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >>> I've >>> >>> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >>> breasts >>> >>> are private on a woman...) >>> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >>> women's >>> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >>> plus >>> >>> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >>> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >>> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just >>> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >>> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >>> play, >>> >> >> I >>> >>> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that >>> household. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi Brandon, >>> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >>> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >>> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >>> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >>> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >>> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >>> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >>> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >>> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >>> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >>> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >>> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >>> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >>> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >>> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >>> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >>> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >>> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >>> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >>> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >>> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >>> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >>> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >>> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >>> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >>> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >>> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >>> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >>> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >>> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >>> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >>> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> >>>> Joshua, >>>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>>> survey >>>> is a good idea. >>>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>>> what >>>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>>> learn >>>> >>>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>>> functions; >>>> >>>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>>> know >>>> >>>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>>> I >>>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi, Amber! >>>> You're right! >>>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Joshua, >>>>> >>>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>>> guess? >>>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>>> you >>>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>>> doesn't >>>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>>> written >>>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>>> >>>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> Impossible is not a word >>>>> It's just a reason >>>>> For someone not to try >>>>> >>>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> When they decide to take that step >>>>> Out on the water >>>>> It'll be alright >>>>> >>>>> Life is so much more >>>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> You will find your way >>>>> If you keep believing" >>>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>>>> on >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>> >>>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>>> proposed >>>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>>> being >>>>> shown, in those slides? >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >https://**www.surveym >>>>>>> onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> asp?URL=https:/ >>>>>>> /www.surveymonkey.com/s/**sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>> E: mbaugh@**nfb.org >>>>>>> W: www.nfb.**org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>> jlester8462%40stud >>>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> jlester8462%40students.p >> ccua.edu >> >>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink >> . >> net >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >> >>> >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> turtlepower17%40gmail.co >> m >> >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> >> Anjelina >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 11:33:09 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:33:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device In-Reply-To: <4fff9fd8.c439320a.5ba5.1d4e@mx.google.com> References: <4fff9fd8.c439320a.5ba5.1d4e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: it’s a mini notetaker with a small display. Its less expensive than all notetakers I've seen so I think it would be more affordable for people; those who work could afford it by saving up. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:11 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device Huh? Whauft is the Perkins Mini? Is it a Braille display? If so, it might not be worthy of my money because it would cost thousands of dollars, and I'm sorry, but thousands of dollars is too much money. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, Well, my class was real visual. I did get some out of it but not equalivalent access. My teachers lectured some. They covered aids and STDs for one thing. Our curriculum though had videos and diagrams. I'm not sure the solution. Maybe a model of a human could be used to show a blind student where the parts are at least. To me, diagrams don't convey the process well; you need something more concrete and two or 3 dimentional. It depends on the teacher and their requirements. I think many of them are reqired to show videos to us. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, we had notes to read that described it very well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 11:41:58 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:41:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Experience In-Reply-To: <270CF94F-8F78-4E8D-8385-6722ADDE3A40@gmail.com> References: <270CF94F-8F78-4E8D-8385-6722ADDE3A40@gmail.com> Message-ID: <40C07C85CEF64464A5D68F3B24088ADA@OwnerPC> That's right; I'm sure many grad students feel that way; I'll add that if writing is an issue, the school may have tutors or you could pay one, assuming you had money, for it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Greg Aikens Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 1:27 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Writing Experience Hi deb, Lots of first year grad students feel that way. Graduate work in any field is a whole new level and each field has elements of writing that are more important etc. Both of the schools I attended for graduate level work offered seminars and writing workshops for people who needed to hone their writing skills. many universities have a writing center to help students. Don't hesitate to take advantage of these resources. If its a matter of improving your writing to get into a graduate program, you could ask other skilled writers to look at your work, like you have done so on this list already. Btw, I would not mind looking over your essay, I just neglected to respond earlier. Hope this helps, Greg On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:54 PM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Hi all > How do I gain the necessary experience to write papers in the graduate > level? > I mean what am I doing wrong I'm not a fantastic writer after 4 years of > a > undergraduate study? > I feel like I haven't even learned anything during my 4 year college > stint. > Deb > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 11:53:53 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:53:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><0123DD95122448DB83A24216CAA47E00@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <85C2B7F32AB844BA9D11579C3D56DB3F@Gloria> Hi, What is the link to the servey? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Bennett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > Just a quick note about the survey. I was super discouraged, because > my computer didn't ask me and restarted after updates after I had > spent a significant amount of time on it. But after a while I resolved > that I still wanted to fill it out. And, I don't know if surveymonkey > just recognized my computer or what, but it routed me to the question > I had last answered. So, if something happens while you are filling it > out, try again. You may not have to start over. > > Cindy > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing >> what >> >> the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what >> it >> is in the first place. >> I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and >> I'm >> sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes >> sex >> >> should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be >> human. >> We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies, >> rays those babies and die. >> What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn >> skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say >> we >> >> should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one >> third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves. >> I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people >> who >> celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as >> ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of >> everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the >> book. >> It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with >> reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being >> around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One >> can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be >> avoided >> and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the >> numbers >> are out and glairing: >> "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; >> the >> >> rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for >> 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%." >> http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the-usa.html >> If that's not a problem, I don't know what is. >> >> Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you >> understand >> >> how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who >> understood >> >> you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid >> you >> were put into a conservative household? >> I shutter to think how horrible that would be. >> >> A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with >> hurpies >> >> may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's >> important! >> It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child >> developmentally delayed if not addressed. >> >> My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of >> their apartment building and how passionate they are: >> "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair >> cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room >> between >> them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they >> come >> >> up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they >> get >> pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss >> turns >> into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her >> back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..." >> >> It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her >> hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, >> how >> they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and >> don't >> >> know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss >> looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the >> bus? >> >> How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At >> some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware. >> >> If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw >> Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a >> robot...) >> It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is >> what makes us different than our dog or rabbet. >> This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally >> different >> >> class of their own. >> >> What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, >> but >> most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that >> signify >> sexual interest. >> How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that >> question. >> How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too >> many >> >> times from different blind teens in high school. >> How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school >> years. >> How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys >> want >> to take this one? >> How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime... >> How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't >> even >> find her! >> What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me >> that >> spot was private...! >> >> These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what >> I >> think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance >> class. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, >> Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I >> have to say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these >> things. While sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching >> people make out or get physical, and this could even include their >> parents, sex ed curriculums in general aren't exactly top notch. Most >> are abstinence only, with a distinct slant towards the doom and gloom >> side of things. It makes everything risque for kids who are saying, >> "what's the big deal?" And honestly, if they take the right >> precautions, they may be right. Have any of you ever checked out >> avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of information >> directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual >> experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there >> are plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships >> don't have to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, >> their choices and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a >> young age who don't regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments >> with rats crawling up the walls while they prostitute themselves to >> support the baby they made at 14. So, in high school and younger, lots >> of misinformation flies from one inexperienced ear to another, and >> that's how people not only face consequences when they experiment, but >> also harbor guilt and shame when they feel they have no one they can >> turn to. Their friends may have steered them in the wrong direction >> with outright lies, however well-intentioned they may have been, and >> parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their children as >> sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about >> the birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, >> JUST DON'T DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works >> most of the time! And the schools are basically doing the same thing >> by teaching abstinence only, when you think about it. >> Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an >> educational sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are >> experiencing the same feelings and desires as sighted people. They >> talk to their friends, whether they're blind or sighted, about these >> topics just as sighted people talk to other sighted people about them. >> Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or >> acted out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going >> to go into explicit detail, they will say something about the activity >> being discussed. Let's also not forget that partially sighted people >> are probably going to pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point. >> There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental >> reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be >> that parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex >> than they would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak >> from personal experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I >> shouldn't have sex because I was blind, not so much because of the >> physical act but because of the fact I could get pregnant, and God >> forbid a blind person should become a parent. >> In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written >> up for blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, >> blindness doesn't mean you have to do things differently, and I feel >> that the blind are already singled out enough that trying to alter the >> sex ed curriculum for us would just lead to even more awkwardness and >> embarrassment. Sex ed curriculums need to become more inclusive in >> general, and the teachers who teach them need to make an effort not to >> let their personal feelings and biases get in the way. If a teacher >> can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't be handling the material. If >> psychologists and others in the helping profession must remain >> objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers. It's >> sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something >> that's way far from the root of the problem. >> >> On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I >>> don't >>> see. >>> JMHO! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of >>>> playboy >>>> >>>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or >>>> the >>>> gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All that we >>>> miss >>>> >>>> because we're blind. >>>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual. Sighted >>>> kids >>>> >>>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person >>>> supposed >>>> to >>>> >>>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know >>>> it's >>>> not >>>> >>>> just a cut or dehydration? >>>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina >>>> in >>>> class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same? >>>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a >>>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to >>>> obtain >>>> >>>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we >>>> taught >>>> to >>>> >>>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love >>>> and >>>> be >>>> >>>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love our >>>> selves in school? >>>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words human >>>> beings, but that's kind of a different issue. >>>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it instead >>>> of >>>> the droll thing they have now. >>>> >>>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a >>>> blind >>>> person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't felt one or >>>> tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for contraception's? >>>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do you >>>> want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your favorite?" >>>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've >>>> got >>>> small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and wide. >>>> Here >>>> are some flavors as well..." >>>> >>>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of >>>> the >>>> really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can be >>>> unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their lube >>>> where >>>> >>>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what >>>> brands >>>> to >>>> >>>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my >>>> parents, >>>> but I've never seen my parents buy condoms. >>>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems. >>>> And >>>> >>>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation is >>>> talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy masturbate >>>> without >>>> >>>> making a mess? >>>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a >>>> baby, >>>> that's more science. >>>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way short >>>> in >>>> when it comes to being educated along with their fellow students. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>>us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 11:58:14 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:58:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu><7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <71DCEADE50A9445E9B65B7CF115CD015@Gloria> Hi, I just have a question or concern. I know this is a list for blind students, so I would imagine that there are many or some under aged persons on this list. I am saying I am not trying to tell others what they should or should not be saying, but if there are younger people on this list reading the comments, I feel we should be careful how descriptive in our conversations. Don't take offence just a precaution. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > Hi Brandon, > Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > > On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> survey >> is a good idea. >> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> what >> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >> learn >> >> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> functions; >> >> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >> know >> >> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say I >> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> Hi, Amber! >> You're right! >> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> That's one of my favorite songs! >> Welcome to the list! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Dear Joshua, >>> >>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>> guess? >>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind doesn't >>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>> written >>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>> proposed >>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>> being >>> shown, in those slides? >>> Good grief! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>us with a current project. >>>>> >>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>> >>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 11:58:46 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:58:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device In-Reply-To: References: <4fff9fd8.c439320a.5ba5.1d4e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yeah. Like I said, I need to experiment with one, to see if it's the perfect fit for me. Thanks, Joshua On 7/13/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > it’s a mini notetaker with a small display. Its less expensive than all > notetakers I've seen so I think it would be more affordable for people; > those who work could afford it by saving up. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device > > Huh? Whauft is the Perkins Mini? Is it a Braille display? If > so, it might not be worthy of my money because it would cost > thousands of dollars, and I'm sorry, but thousands of dollars is > too much money. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:01:16 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device > > I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 > cells. > What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth > my money? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 12:03:50 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:03:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com><1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hey desiree, thanks. I will try www.kidshealth.org. Last time I checked, their content had adobe flash which made some webpages hard to read. I'm sure are accessible though; worth a try. As you said, its very understandable, clearly written last time I checked. Thanks for the website ideas. I realize I can google things. But, if you don't know what terms to search for, it makes it a bit harder. Google is only as good as the terms you put in it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Ashley, It would be pretty easy to look up a lot of the questions you have on the internet. There are plenty of reputable health websites that will tell you what you want to know. I agree, listening to a screen reader talk about sex might not be the best way to go about it, but your questions about pregnancy are scientific, so I would say you could go to a site like kidshealth.org, go to their parenting section, and read many articles about pregnancy, labor, and birth. The articles on that site are in easy-to-understand language and it's just the facts. There are other websites like babycenter.com that will give you the same kind of information. A google search can do wonders as well. Don't feel discouraged, if you want to find something out badly enough, research it. On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Sophie, > I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > knowledge > > usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it supplements it. > Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model would > further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > > For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or been > explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. > What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role in > supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets nurishment > as > > its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but just how I don't > understand. > They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started labour > in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the baby til > next > > afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she tired? She informed > me > > she slept a little during the night. She told me the baby's head came out > first which was normal. I did not know this. I learned from her as I held > my > > nephew that the head came out first and then the trunk and limbs. I > learned > > that babies cried after they came out of the womb. I learned that infants > needed to get milk very often. I am hoping Kasey will tell me more about > her > > pregnancy and the beginnings of it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > > I think I'll take that survey that started this. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I > took a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very > informative despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need > a special curriculum for sex ed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > I have been asked to circulate the following: > > > Dave > > > > > Dear NFB Member, > The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > help us with a current project. > > We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > us > write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in > the > area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > students > with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > We want your voice to impact our work! > Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > below: > https://www.su > rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > > > > Thank you, > Mika Baugh > National Federation of the Blind > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > E: mbaugh at nfb.org > W: www.nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 12:04:27 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:04:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <71DCEADE50A9445E9B65B7CF115CD015@Gloria> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <71DCEADE50A9445E9B65B7CF115CD015@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi Gloria. We've already beat this dead horse, yesterday. Again, I ask that this thread go away, because as others have said, it has run its course. Thanks, Joshua On 7/13/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > I just have a question or concern. I know this is a list for blind students, > > so I would imagine that there are many or some under aged persons on this > list. I am saying I am not trying to tell others what they should or should > > not be saying, but if there are younger people on this list reading the > comments, I feel we should be careful how descriptive in our conversations. > > Don't take offence just a precaution. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey >>> is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >>> what >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids >>> learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >>> functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I >>> know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say >>> I >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >>>> guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >>>> doesn't >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >>>> written >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's >>>> being >>>> shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help >>>>>>us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.surveym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 12:12:48 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:12:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device References: Message-ID: <32528777428F43B2B824247D27C6FC32@Gloria> Hi, Can you forward that email to me? I would like to read about it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:01 PM Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device >I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 cells. > What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth my > money? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 12:19:09 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:19:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> <8458C960F8E041C79EC6F60BC470881C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <92BA9CB859AF4483929D96554AD7EBEC@OwnerPC> Brandon, Thanks, nice description. actually, I knew condoms were only to be used once though; I have a bit of knowledge, not enough though. I don't think sex ed classes should be as graphic as you do, but I definitely think the scientific process should be taught. But when to teach sex is not a blindness issue; it’s a moral and ethics issue which all of us differ on. I'll just say that IMO parents should be more open about questions. My parents believed you shouldn't go around making babies before marriage; it’s a financial hardship to raise a baby single handed not to mention responsibility; better to wait til you have a committed relationship and are financially stable to support a baby. I agree with them. I guess they felt that if they discussed this info, we might try it in relationships or something. Anyway, I'll write off list to continue if we want to. Let me know if you have a different email address. You seem to have more info; you got your info somewhere. Perhaps you already did it with a girlfriend, or something. I wonder where you got the info. People keep referencing books; I'm not sure what books though; I was a big reader, but as I did not read romances, perhaps that's why I did not run across these descriptions you all observe. As a kid and youth, I loved books on history, historic fiction, the Laura ingalls series, Nancy drew books, and babysitters club among other books. Ah, if only I could ask an infant what being delivered was like, would be cool. Now I know what the cord's purpose is. I've imagined what I'd ask my nephew infant if he could talk. He cannot though. I'll just have to rock him and hear him coo. Take care. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 1:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hello, My problem with the current mottles are that they are gross. They are hard and as synthetic as possible. The way they are presented make one never want to see a peaness or vagina. They may work for putting in a condom or a diaphragm, but past that point they just bring disgust to their users. Any mottles should be at least somewhat realistic, because otherwise it will scare the blind person from having anything to do with sex. That sweetish class sounds very awesome, perhaps if the teacher stripped down, the students would treat sex ed as a cereous topic. I don't think anyone should be embarrassed about sex or sexual matters and I think children should be given the truth. They have a peaness and a vagina and when they are old enough to ask about what it is, they are almost old enough to deal with the issues that come with their body demanding babies. BTW Ashley, I know how hard it is to get your hands on a condom and I know how hard it is to get your hands on a new born baby. A condom looks like a long, thin, rubber sleeve with a big ring at the base. There's a little pouch on the end that's smaller than the main part. When a condom is in a package It's a little 1.5-2 inch square package that feels like there is a ring in it. When the condom is taken out of the package, it's like a ring with a rubber Curtin in the middle. You can find the side that is supposed to fit over the peaness by either blowing on it or feeling to see where that little pouch or bubble is poking out. The side that is poking out is the side that stays on the outside. They kind of feel like a finger of a latex glove. WARNING! If your boyfriend wants to be cool and either: wear a flavored condom, glow in the dark condom, extra large condom or any condom that's not considered plane, don't do penetration. Most of those fancy condoms are meant for oral sex and generally are weaker than the plane condoms. A diaphragm is kind of the same idea, except it is inserted into the vagina and can often stay there for a couple hours where as a condom has to be used right away. Also note, condoms aren't meant to be used more than once, so be aware of that when you go in for the second time. They are thin and the guy doesn't always notice that the condom has broken. A baby's umbilical chord sticks out of their belly button. (You ever wonder what that strange indentation is fore?) It is a feeding tube that goes right into the baby's stomach. One end is attached to the mom somewhere in the uterus and the other comes out of the babies bellybutton. The chord is cut in order to remove the baby from a physical attachment to the mother. Beyond that, take a biology class, it is a lot more detailed, but that is the idea. You could also Google it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, we had notes to read that described it very well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 12:45:02 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:45:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers Message-ID: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Hi all, I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 13:06:18 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:06:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills Message-ID: Hi all, Let me rephrase my query: I'm wondering how an individual, as myself, can graduate with a BA 3.46gpa and have poor writing skills? Is it the educational system or a lack of experience on my end? Thank you. Deb From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 13:29:36 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 06:29:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hadley Message-ID: Hi As anyone taken the Hadley English comp or business writing class? I wanted to take them before spring when my MIRLS program. Thank you! Deb -- ** From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 12:36:10 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:36:10 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4fff9f88.0e0c650a.28cb.2e5d@mx.google.com> References: <4fff9f88.0e0c650a.28cb.2e5d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <87AA8E269B89481EA27482A3683D2BFF@userPC> If you take an anatomy class that will be covered as well. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 1:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum The biology class at my high school does a unit on the human reproductive system and how it works. Maybe if more biology classes went into that, it could improve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" wrote: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Dear NFB Member, The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help us with a current project. We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students with low vision and blindness that reflect current education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. We want your voice to impact our work! Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: https://www.su rveym onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0stud ents.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu ohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 13:48:17 2012 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:48:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi, I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. Aleeha On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 14:08:25 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:08:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber Message-ID: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 14:52:59 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:52:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7AC3BA74991F40ACBB227678C156980D@OwnerPC> Deb, What was your major and just what are your weaknesses? Your question is general. But I'll say that yes many college grads are poor writers. As I said in my last email, they do not teach you how to write well in college. Grammar is no longer taught in grade school or college; well, my freshman professor addressed a little, but hardly. Writing techniques were only taught in english. Due to the fact that english composition is only required for two classes typically, many students do not polish their writing skills. Another issue is the reliance on multiple choice exams these days; even short answer exams do not force you to write and think much. So, it’s the educational system to some extent. No, its not just you with poor writing skills. We all need improvement. So I'm sure you can improve with some help. Reading about writing techniques as well as just reading articles in your disipline will help. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 9:06 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills Hi all, Let me rephrase my query: I'm wondering how an individual, as myself, can graduate with a BA 3.46gpa and have poor writing skills? Is it the educational system or a lack of experience on my end? Thank you. Deb _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 15:20:22 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:20:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB21F78E1AC4D06B5C208994034DC79@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I found my English classes quite extensive, they had no multiple choice questions. I went to a community college and did their honors English, so that probably made a difference, but I am a little sad that only 2 English classes are required when English is such an important subject. Being a community college graduate I was told that the classes I took at the community college were much more extensive and challenging than I would get in the lower division classes at a 4 year college. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 6:06 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills Hi all, Let me rephrase my query: I'm wondering how an individual, as myself, can graduate with a BA 3.46gpa and have poor writing skills? Is it the educational system or a lack of experience on my end? Thank you. Deb _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 15:33:20 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:33:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills In-Reply-To: <7AC3BA74991F40ACBB227678C156980D@OwnerPC> References: <7AC3BA74991F40ACBB227678C156980D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: MIRLS Master's information Resources Library Science. I guess it's the educational system. Deb Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 On Jul 13, 2012 7:54 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Deb, > What was your major and just what are your weaknesses? Your question is > general. But I'll say that yes many college grads are poor writers. As I > said in my last email, they do not teach you how to write well in college. > Grammar is no longer taught in grade school or college; well, my freshman > professor addressed a little, but hardly. Writing techniques were only > taught in english. Due to the fact that english composition is only > required for two classes typically, many students do not polish their > writing skills. Another issue is the reliance on multiple choice exams > these days; even short answer exams do not force you to write and think > much. So, it’s the educational system to some extent. > > No, its not just you with poor writing skills. We all need improvement. So > I'm sure you can improve with some help. Reading about writing techniques > as well as just reading articles in your disipline will help. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 9:06 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills > > Hi all, > Let me rephrase my query: I'm wondering how an individual, as myself, can > graduate with a BA 3.46gpa and have poor writing skills? Is it the > educational system or a lack of experience on my end? > Thank you. > Deb > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 15:45:15 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:45:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: I have a brand new Dell. Windows 7 Professional works with Jaws. Deb Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 On Jul 13, 2012 5:46 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like > to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple > things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 15:49:34 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:49:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fffa128.1785650a.7c91.2d04@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003501cd610f$1ad60610$50821230$@gmail.com> Ashley, When lectures and such become visual in classes, I start asking questions. That's how I learn because if we don't ask, then we won't know and the teachers probably would have forgotten about us. I think that self-advocacy plays a huge role in our schooling and in work environments. hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 4:38 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Sophie, Well, my class was real visual. I did get some out of it but not equalivalent access. My teachers lectured some. They covered aids and STDs for one thing. Our curriculum though had videos and diagrams. I'm not sure the solution. Maybe a model of a human could be used to show a blind student where the parts are at least. To me, diagrams don't convey the process well; you need something more concrete and two or 3 dimentional. It depends on the teacher and their requirements. I think many of them are reqired to show videos to us. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Ashley, I think it depends on the teacher you have for sex ed. My teacher was super duper good about explaining everything. Plus, we had notes to read that described it very well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" https://www.su rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey mbaugh at nfb.org W: www.nfb.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om From sparklylicious at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 15:53:01 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:53:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <71DCEADE50A9445E9B65B7CF115CD015@Gloria> Message-ID: <003701cd610f$95e551d0$c1aff570$@gmail.com> Joshua, No offense or anything, but if you want this thread to go away, then why do you keep responding to the emails? It seems to me that more emails would cause more discussion... Best, Hannah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi Gloria. We've already beat this dead horse, yesterday. Again, I ask that this thread go away, because as others have said, it has run its course. Thanks, Joshua On 7/13/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > I just have a question or concern. I know this is a list for blind > students, > > so I would imagine that there are many or some under aged persons on > this list. I am saying I am not trying to tell others what they should > or should > > not be saying, but if there are younger people on this list reading > the comments, I feel we should be careful how descriptive in our conversations. > > Don't take offence just a precaution. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > >> Hi Brandon, >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question >> one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. >> But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of >> a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change >> your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight >> or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a >> lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, >> we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I >> was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want >> or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the >> counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk >> what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so >> either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be >> an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I >> was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >>> survey is a good idea. >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is >>> and what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. >>> Sighted kids learn >>> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >>> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts >>> and functions; >>> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >>> I know >>> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >>> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than >>> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi, Amber! >>> You're right! >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Dear Joshua, >>>> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind >>>> of...unnecessary, I guess? >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being >>>> blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way >>>> sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do >>>> anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text >>>> be?) >>>> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's >>>> just a reason For someone not to try >>>> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >>>> what's being shown, in those slides? >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>help us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help >>>>>>us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness >>>>>>in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for >>>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current >>>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals >>>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: >>>>>>https://www.sur >>>>>>veym >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you, >>>>>>Mika Baugh >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 >>>>> stud >>>>> ents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muoh >>>> io.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s >>>> tudents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>> rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >> mail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 16:53:40 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 11:53:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi, Aleeha! Welcome to the list! I think Del works better with Jaws. Blessings, Joshua On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hi, > I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to > have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. > > Aleeha > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 16:53:13 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:53:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <003701cd610f$95e551d0$c1aff570$@gmail.com> References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <71DCEADE50A9445E9B65B7CF115CD015@Gloria> <003701cd610f$95e551d0$c1aff570$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds logical to me! Stop answering posts to make them go away! Deb On Jul 13, 2012 8:57 AM, "Hannah Chadwick" wrote: > Joshua, > No offense or anything, but if you want this thread to go away, then why do > you keep responding to the emails? It seems to me that more emails would > cause more discussion... > Best, Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi Gloria. > We've already beat this dead horse, yesterday. > Again, I ask that this thread go away, because as others have said, it has > run its course. > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/13/12, Gloria G wrote: > > Hi, > > I just have a question or concern. I know this is a list for blind > > students, > > > > so I would imagine that there are many or some under aged persons on > > this list. I am saying I am not trying to tell others what they should > > or should > > > > not be saying, but if there are younger people on this list reading > > the comments, I feel we should be careful how descriptive in our > conversations. > > > > Don't take offence just a precaution. > > Thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > > > >> Hi Brandon, > >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question > >> one statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all > that. > >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. > >> But if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of > >> a sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change > >> your approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight > >> or lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a > >> lot of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, > >> we would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I > >> was starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want > >> or not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the > >> counter, asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk > >> what they want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so > >> either way we lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be > >> an option if people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I > >> was a teenager, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > >> > >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >>> Joshua, > >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this > >>> survey is a good idea. > >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is > >>> and what you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. > >>> Sighted kids learn > >>> > >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not > >>> discuss anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts > >>> and functions; > >>> > >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. > >>> I know > >>> > >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what > >>> it meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than > >>> to say I know less about sex than my peers my age. > >>> > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Joshua Lester > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> Hi, Amber! > >>> You're right! > >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > >>> That's one of my favorite songs! > >>> Welcome to the list! > >>> Blessings, Joshua > >>> > >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > >>>> Dear Joshua, > >>>> > >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about > >>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind > >>>> of...unnecessary, I guess? > >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes > >>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being > >>>> blind doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way > >>>> sighted people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do > >>>> anyway?) or read books written on the topic (how confusing can text > >>>> be?) > >>>> > >>>> Amber R. Herrin > >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's > >>>> just a reason For someone not to try > >>>> > >>>> Everybody's scared to death > >>>> When they decide to take that step > >>>> Out on the water > >>>> It'll be alright > >>>> > >>>> Life is so much more > >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing > >>>> You will find your way > >>>> If you keep believing" > >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>>> > >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > >>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting. > >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, > >>>> what's being shown, in those slides? > >>>> Good grief! > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Dave > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, > >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > >>>>>>help us with a current project. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help > >>>>>>us write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness > >>>>>>in the area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for > >>>>>>students with low vision and blindness that reflect current > >>>>>>education standards. Young people, educators, and professionals > >>>>>>have all indicated that there is a desperate need for such a > curriculum. > >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! > >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: > >>>>>>https://www.sur > >>>>>>veym > >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>ps:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Thank you, > >>>>>>Mika Baugh > >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind > >>>>>>200 East Wells Street > >>>>>> at Jernigan Place > >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org > >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>> for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > >>>>> stud > >>>>> ents.pccua.edu > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muoh > >>>> io.edu > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s > >>>> tudents.pccua.edu > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea > >>> rthlink.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 > >>> gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g > >> mail.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > > ents.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 16:57:02 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 11:57:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device In-Reply-To: <32528777428F43B2B824247D27C6FC32@Gloria> References: <32528777428F43B2B824247D27C6FC32@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi, Gloria. I'll ask my friend to E-mail you, since I somehow lost that E-mail. Blessings, Joshua On 7/13/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > Can you forward that email to me? I would like to read about it. Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:01 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device > > >>I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 cells. >> What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth my >> money? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 19:05:47 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:05:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the software. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi, Aleeha! > Welcome to the list! > I think Del works better with Jaws. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >> Hi, >> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to >> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >> >> Aleeha >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>> Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 19:08:45 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:08:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmmm! I just wonder why Jaws is running so slow, on this Acer! Thanks, Joshua On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the > software. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Hi, Aleeha! >> Welcome to the list! >> I think Del works better with Jaws. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>> to >>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>> >>> Aleeha >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>> like >>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>> Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 19:16:57 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:16:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9AB203CF-D559-440E-9F9B-2D528B205165@gmail.com> Probably because you have JAWS 10. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hmmm! > I just wonder why Jaws is running so slow, on this Acer! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >> software. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Aleeha! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>> to >>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>> >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>> like >>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 19:19:52 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:19:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <9AB203CF-D559-440E-9F9B-2D528B205165@gmail.com> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <9AB203CF-D559-440E-9F9B-2D528B205165@gmail.com> Message-ID: LOL! It's time to upgrade! Maybe that will help me with flash sites, as well. Thanks, Joshua On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Probably because you have JAWS 10. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Hmmm! >> I just wonder why Jaws is running so slow, on this Acer! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>> multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 19:25:03 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:25:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber In-Reply-To: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> References: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5AB6F727-D6B5-44F6-92F7-15A683C77F36@gmail.com> Welcome, Amber! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jul 13 20:15:08 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:15:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <500081CC.3060907@visi.com> There could be lots of reasons, none of which has to do with the make of the computer. They include, but are not limited to, age of computer, speed of processor, amount of memory, version of Windows and JAWS, other programs running, how recently Windows was installed, registry settings and more... Dave On 7/13/2012 2:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hmmm! > I just wonder why Jaws is running so slow, on this Acer! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >> software. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Aleeha! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>> to >>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>> >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>> like >>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> ________________________ From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 20:16:40 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:16:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: <6294E3EF-C85F-46D4-B185-520CC526DDE2@gmail.com> I use an HP. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 7:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi all, > I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 22:14:06 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 17:14:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <6294E3EF-C85F-46D4-B185-520CC526DDE2@gmail.com> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <6294E3EF-C85F-46D4-B185-520CC526DDE2@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree with Mr Andrews. BTW, Chris, I'm 3 hours away from Hot Springs. Blessings, Joshua On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > I use an HP. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 7:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 22:26:55 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 15:26:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the software. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi, Aleeha! > Welcome to the list! > I think Del works better with Jaws. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >> Hi, >> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to >> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >> >> Aleeha >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>> Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 22:29:59 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 17:29:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I wouldn't get HP either. They're too expensive! Blessings, Joshua On 7/13/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no way > > to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the > software. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester > > wrote: > >> Hi, Aleeha! >> Welcome to the list! >> I think Del works better with Jaws. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>> to >>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>> >>> Aleeha >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>> like >>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>> Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 21:33:10 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:33:10 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <9048409E82E54AADAC4D87013CFEA473@userPC> I have an hp and I really like it! I just kick my self out of what I was doing because I touch the mouse pad accsidently but I just alt tab back to it with out a problem. It happends in the beginning but once you get used to your keyboard it happends less. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers I wouldn't get HP either. They're too expensive! Blessings, Joshua On 7/13/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no way > > to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the > software. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester > > wrote: > >> Hi, Aleeha! >> Welcome to the list! >> I think Del works better with Jaws. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>> to >>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>> >>> Aleeha >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>> like >>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>> Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail .com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 23:25:28 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:25:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the software. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Hi, Aleeha! >> Welcome to the list! >> I think Del works better with Jaws. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to >>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>> >>> Aleeha >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>> Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 23:33:07 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:33:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <6294E3EF-C85F-46D4-B185-520CC526DDE2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh, OK. If you were closer, I would see if we could get together in person while I'm here so I could meet you. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I agree with Mr Andrews. > BTW, Chris, I'm 3 hours away from Hot Springs. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> I use an HP. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 7:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>> Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 13 23:37:34 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:37:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <6294E3EF-C85F-46D4-B185-520CC526DDE2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know how to get Jaws to work on a Flash based site? Since this has nothing to do with this thread, please E-mail me off list. Thanks, Joshua On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Oh, OK. If you were closer, I would see if we could get together in person > while I'm here so I could meet you. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> I agree with Mr Andrews. >> BTW, Chris, I'm 3 hours away from Hot Springs. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> I use an HP. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 7:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>> like >>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>> Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 23:41:20 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:41:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, I just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and now I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, though; I'm just making an educated guess here. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > >> Hello, >> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the software. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Hi, Aleeha! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to >>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>> >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 23:50:15 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:50:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: There should be a way to disable it in control pannel, as well. Wait, hp... I had one and I don't remember an option there... try f7. On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, I > just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and now > I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, though; > I'm just making an educated guess here. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>> wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>> multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 02:25:28 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:25:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Summit Barcode reader Message-ID: I'll I was wondering if anyone knows how do you use barcode reader take the sd card and a laptop to convert information into word? I need to scan the barcodes of audio books with the summit and transfer them to either a word and excel document. Is this possible? Has anyone on this list used. A summit to some extent catalog books? Thank you. Deb From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 04:10:29 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 00:10:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi all, I currently have a Del laptop, and I like it fine, but my old HP desktop was the most reliable computer I ever had. It lasted me nearly 8 years, and truthfully still works, but the fan went bad on it and I haven't replaced it. I've had Del desktops that crashed just a month or two after purchase. This was at least 10 or 12 years ago though, and I'd say that Del's products have improved since then. Since this laptop was purchased by BVS, I had no say in it, but if I had bought my own I definitely would have bought another HP. On 7/13/12, josh gregory wrote: > There should be a way to disable it in control pannel, as well. Wait, > hp... I had one and I don't remember an option there... try f7. > > On 7/13/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, >> I >> just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and >> now >> I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, >> though; >> I'm just making an educated guess here. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>> wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>> the >>>> software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jeffc4 at lavabit.com Sat Jul 14 04:21:13 2012 From: jeffc4 at lavabit.com (jeffc4 at lavabit.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 00:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> Hi the name here is jeff. I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they put in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret it. > Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >> wires. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >> software. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Aleeha! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>> to >>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>> >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>> like >>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>> multiple >>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Find health%20insurance%20health > http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 05:13:48 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 01:13:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: <6AFE51CAE1654AE285451EC81EF2BB8C@OwnerPC> Joshua, The maker of the product has nothing to do with jaws. dell doesn't work any better with jaws than say sony or Acer, or something else. Lets not spread misinformation. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Hi, Aleeha! Welcome to the list! I think Del works better with Jaws. Blessings, Joshua On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: > Hi, > I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to > have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. > > Aleeha > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 05:29:26 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 01:29:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi, maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the store you bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. I would think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, I just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and now I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, though; I'm just making an educated guess here. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >> wires. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >> software. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Aleeha! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>> to >>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>> >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>> like >>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 05:41:57 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 01:41:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi, since jaws will run on any windows 7 computer, consider other factors. Also, jaws can work on multiple things on any pc. All you do is alt tab between applications. So with vague peremiters, any computer would meet those specifics you listed. What do you want in a computer. Consider memory processor speed, how many USB ports it has, what the sound quality is and if you have any vision, how the screen looks. I'll check what brand my laptop is; my main pc is custom made. I'd say hp and dell seem pretty decent and get good reviews. -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 8:45 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Computers Hi all, I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From cassonw at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 05:45:52 2012 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 23:45:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: The way to disable it varies between each model. Some it will be fn+ one of the numbers or funtion keys, others it will be a touch button somewhere around the top of your keyboard. My mom's HP you disable the touchpad by holding down on one of the corners of the touchpad. I would recommend googling it or reading the manual. The manual would be the best route, but we all know how much fun reading manuals is. You will find that everyone has had good experiences or bad experiences with x brand, so it is hard to really tell from this. For example, I had toshiba's, had no problem with them. The dell desktops we've had are somewhat reliable. The dell laptop my friend had, had the motherboard replaced twice and the harddrive somewhere around 6 or 8 times. My HP is solid, I have had it for 2.5 years and it works close to how it did when the state bought it for me. Though it is worth noting here that my HP is a professional system and HP seems to build these a bit better than the consumer systems. I would concentrate on good specs and wory less about the brand. Take close note of all the software you run, and figure out the requirements for those pieces of software. Usually somewhere on the site of the software or on the box it will have the system requirements. I would be sure to get a system with this as the very minimum, but would probably recommend going a little better on each one. As a general rule, if I were you, I would avoid anything being promoted as a netbook as these systems are notoriously underpowered and will probably not be able to run your assistive technology and another program concurrently. Though as noted above, specs are what really matters. Feel free to email me offlist if you have any other questions. HTH, Bill On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi, > maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the store you > bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. I would > think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. > > > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, I > just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and now > I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, though; > I'm just making an educated guess here. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 05:57:40 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:57:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <1EE0A623B41A487C9B37706741CC5F8D@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Again, I tried everything except for cutting the wires. I could higher a hacker to go into my system shell and put an error in all the checkers that force load the drivers, but this computer probably won't last long enough for me to find anyone with the skill to do that well. The card thing would work, except there is this thing called 3 fingered gestures that are activated anytime the mouse pad is touched by something larger than the finger. ATM I'm just super await of where ever my curser is at all times and I try to restrain myself from throwing my computer against the wall when I type a whole email into the search box of WLM. It would be nice if Jaws or the laptop made a little click sound when the mouse was activated, so I'd notice... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Hi, maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the store you bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. I would think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, I just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and now I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, though; I'm just making an educated guess here. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >> wires. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >> software. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Aleeha! >>> Welcome to the list! >>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>> to >>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>> >>>> Aleeha >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>> like >>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu Sat Jul 14 17:35:57 2012 From: wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu (Grussenmeyer, William Daniel) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:35:57 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills In-Reply-To: <4AB21F78E1AC4D06B5C208994034DC79@BrandonsLaptop2> References: , <4AB21F78E1AC4D06B5C208994034DC79@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I completely disagree. English is not an important subject. In fact there should be no degrees in it and the departments should be cut back to doing what is in fact most important -- communicaiton through writing. This is the only point of writing -- communication, and these universities not only do not focus on that aspect but are extremely prejudiced against communication skills and all social skills in general. Communication through writing is a social skill. Colleges professors consider studying more important than social skills and they most of the time lack these. I had to ignore most of what was taught to me at UC-Davis which is supposed to be a top university, but when it comes to English classes they spend most of the time teaching you intellectually obtuse, obtuse, and unimportant concepts. In conclusion, communication through writing is good and should be taught while English is a waste of time along with communication major which teaches a lot of similar useless pretentious concepts and quote archaic philosophers. And don't even get me started on the evils of teaching morality in English classes. English class Morality teaches you to write what other people want you to write to make them happy and not hurt them instead of teaching you what is far more important: write what is courageous, saying what you really want to write and expressing it powerfully. Anyway, read the Writing with Style book, you can find it on bookshare.org. It teaches you practical and effective communication in writing and throws out all that useless pretenious conceptual waste of time. --Bill ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 8:20 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Writing Skills Hello, I found my English classes quite extensive, they had no multiple choice questions. I went to a community college and did their honors English, so that probably made a difference, but I am a little sad that only 2 English classes are required when English is such an important subject. Being a community college graduate I was told that the classes I took at the community college were much more extensive and challenging than I would get in the lower division classes at a 4 year college. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 6:06 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills Hi all, Let me rephrase my query: I'm wondering how an individual, as myself, can graduate with a BA 3.46gpa and have poor writing skills? Is it the educational system or a lack of experience on my end? Thank you. Deb _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg22%40saclink.csus.edu From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 17:49:44 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:49:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills In-Reply-To: References: <4AB21F78E1AC4D06B5C208994034DC79@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi bill thank you so much I do have a Book Share account. I whole heartedly agree with you. Written communication is very very important. Not only does it express our ideas it also gives information to others. Deb On Jul 14, 2012 10:38 AM, "Grussenmeyer, William Daniel" < wdg22 at saclink.csus.edu> wrote: > I completely disagree. English is not an important subject. In fact > there should be no degrees in it and the departments should be cut back to > doing what is in fact most important -- communicaiton through writing. > This is the only point of writing -- communication, and these universities > not only do not focus on that aspect but are extremely prejudiced against > communication skills and all social skills in general. Communication > through writing is a social skill. Colleges professors consider studying > more important than social skills and they most of the time lack these. > I had to ignore most of what was taught to me at UC-Davis which is > supposed to be a top university, but when it comes to English classes they > spend most of the time teaching you intellectually obtuse, obtuse, and > unimportant concepts. > In conclusion, communication through writing is good and should be > taught while English is a waste of time along with communication major > which teaches a lot of similar useless pretentious concepts and quote > archaic philosophers. > And don't even get me started on the evils of teaching morality in > English classes. English class Morality teaches you to write what other > people want you to write to make them happy and not hurt them instead of > teaching you what is far more important: write what is courageous, saying > what you really want to write and expressing it powerfully. > > Anyway, read the Writing with Style book, you can find it on bookshare.org. > It teaches you practical and effective communication in writing and throws > out all that useless pretenious conceptual waste of time. > > --Bill > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 8:20 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Writing Skills > > Hello, > I found my English classes quite extensive, they had no multiple choice > questions. > I went to a community college and did their honors English, so that > probably > made a difference, but I am a little sad that only 2 English classes are > required when English is such an important subject. Being a community > college graduate I was told that the classes I took at the community > college > were much more extensive and challenging than I would get in the lower > division classes at a 4 year college. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 6:06 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Writing Skills > > Hi all, > Let me rephrase my query: I'm wondering how an individual, as myself, can > graduate with a BA 3.46gpa and have poor writing skills? Is it the > educational system or a lack of experience on my end? > Thank you. > Deb > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg22%40saclink.csus.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sat Jul 14 18:13:53 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:13:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: As usual, Joshua, you have your facts wrong. Dr. Maurer does not have five kids, he has two, and why bring him into this discussion anyway! Dave At 07:13 PM 7/12/2012, you wrote: >Good grief! >I just have one question for you, since you're for this new curriculum. >How do you think Dr Maurer, and his wife learned? >They didn't have sex-education, in the 1950's, but they have 5 kids! >That whole story destroys the argument! >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone talk > > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually seeing > > > > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of a > > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same > with a guy, > > > > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before > you're supposed > > > > to stick your peaness into it... > > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind > > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that having > > > > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her > first sexual > > > > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd get > > > > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams > and he's like > > > > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. > > (New advertisement for birth control!) > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Desiree Oudinot > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of > > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs > > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a > > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a > > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I > > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job > > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics > > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important > > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it > > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind > > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some > > first-hand experience and knowledge. > > > > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, > >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the > >> first > >> > >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the > >> other > >> > >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that kissing > >> can > >> > >> be more than a brush of the lips. > >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first time > >> I > >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my PDA > >> > >> I > >> > >> was like, That's gross!!! > >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and how > >> was > >> > >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? > >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a > >> love > >> > >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman > >> stuck > >> > >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that > >> was > >> just so unexpected. > >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to > >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what entails. > >> Of > >> > >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me personally, > >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and > >> romantic > >> > >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this is > >> what > >> > >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. > >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I > >> thought > >> > >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought > >> women > >> > >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've > >> come > >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my active > >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty > >> things that are a part of romance. > >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing to > >> talk > >> > >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really > >> delayed > >> > >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first > >> time > >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a naked > >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? > >> I've > >> > >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that > >> breasts > >> > >> are private on a woman...) > >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling women's > >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, > >> plus > >> > >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." > >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your > >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't just > >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? > >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to play, > >> > >> I > >> > >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in that > >> household. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >> > >> Hi Brandon, > >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one > >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. > >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then > >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex > >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. > >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new > >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of > >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and > >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less > >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more > >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But > >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a > >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your > >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or > >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive > >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of > >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say > >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot > >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we > >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was > >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes > >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first > >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. > >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message > >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity > >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or > >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, > >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they > >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we > >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if > >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, > >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. > >> > >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >>> Joshua, > >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this > >>> survey > >>> is a good idea. > >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and > >>> what > >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted kids > >>> learn > >>> > >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. > >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not discuss > >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and > >>> functions; > >>> > >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. > >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife > >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? > >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. I > >>> know > >>> > >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what it > >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to say > >>> I > >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. > >>> > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Joshua Lester > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> Hi, Amber! > >>> You're right! > >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! > >>> That's one of my favorite songs! > >>> Welcome to the list! > >>> Blessings, Joshua > >>> > >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > >>>> Dear Joshua, > >>>> > >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about sex, > >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I > >>>> guess? > >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes you > >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind > >>>> doesn't > >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people > >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books > >>>> written > >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) > >>>> > >>>> Amber R. Herrin > >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 > >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >>>> Impossible is not a word > >>>> It's just a reason > >>>> For someone not to try > >>>> > >>>> Everybody's scared to death > >>>> When they decide to take that step > >>>> Out on the water > >>>> It'll be alright > >>>> > >>>> Life is so much more > >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing > >>>> You will find your way > >>>> If you keep believing" > >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>>> Behalf > >>>> Of Joshua Lester > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>>> > >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new > >>>> proposed > >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. > >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, what's > >>>> being > >>>> shown, in those slides? > >>>> Good grief! > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Dave > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, > >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to help > >>>>>>us with a current project. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! > >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below: > >>>>>>https://www.surveym > >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>>>>> > >>>>>> =https:/>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Thank you, > >>>>>>Mika Baugh > >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind > >>>>>>200 East Wells Street > >>>>>> at Jernigan Place > >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org > >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 14 18:17:09 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:17:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <00c701cd6033$f6e82520$e4b86f60$@edu> <7B12289776E646838CB161F4EE9FCD2F@OwnerPC> <370032B2593749588113CFFFFC2F7014@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: And, BTW, when Gabe brought out my mistake, I appologized for it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/14/12, David Andrews wrote: > As usual, Joshua, you have your facts wrong. Dr. Maurer does not > have five kids, he has two, and why bring him into this discussion anyway! > > Dave > > At 07:13 PM 7/12/2012, you wrote: >>Good grief! >>I just have one question for you, since you're for this new curriculum. >>How do you think Dr Maurer, and his wife learned? >>They didn't have sex-education, in the 1950's, but they have 5 kids! >>That whole story destroys the argument! >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> > Is talking enough though? I know I would benefit from hearing someone >> > talk >> > about their romantic and sexual experiences, but what about actually >> > seeing >> > >> > a naked woman or man? It's kind of nasty to have your first glimpse of >> > a >> > man's peaness right before he's ready to stick it in you... Same >> with a guy, >> > >> > it's kind of nasty to see a vagina for the first time before >> you're supposed >> > >> > to stick your peaness into it... >> > We were told lots about date rape and whatnot in school. I had a blind >> > girlfriend who knew nothing about the hymen and she had no idea that >> > having >> > >> > sex for a virgin woman could be painful and bloody. What if her >> first sexual >> > >> > encounter was a guy who didn't know about the hymen either? Either he'd >> > get >> > >> > scared and turned off because of all the blood, or she screams >> and he's like >> > >> > a quarter in and she says that it hurts to go any farther. >> > (New advertisement for birth control!) >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Desiree Oudinot >> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:46 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> > >> > Ok, now I can understand where you're coming from. But the kind of >> > thing you speak of where blind people just grab on someone's boobs >> > sounds like perhaps they have another disability as well. That's a >> > whole other can of worms. But I still stand by what I said that a >> > separate curriculum doesn't need to be made just for the blind. What I >> > do believe, however, is that perhaps in summer workshops about job >> > searching and resume building and things like that, these topics >> > should be discussed. Social norms and sexual expression are important >> > topics, and maybe if everyone in the room was blind, it would make it >> > more beneficial. Maybe the class could even be taught by a blind >> > psychologist or social worker, if one is available, for some >> > first-hand experience and knowledge. >> > >> > On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Again, we're assuming that a blind person knows what a kiss is in the >> >> first >> >> >> >> place, we're assuming that they know that you're supposed to touch the >> >> other >> >> >> >> person when they kiss and we're also asuming that they know that >> >> kissing >> >> can >> >> >> >> be more than a brush of the lips. >> >> I didn't realize the last 2 till I started reading books. The first >> >> time >> >> I >> >> read a graphical description of a French kiss I about through down my >> >> PDA >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> was like, That's gross!!! >> >> I wasn't able to feel the passion and emotion put into the kiss and >> >> how >> >> was >> >> >> >> I supposed to know that the tongue played a role in much of kissing? >> >> It reminds me of another book I read where a robot was going through a >> >> love >> >> >> >> scene and he was doing what seemed to please the woman till the woman >> >> stuck >> >> >> >> her tongue in his ear. He jumped up and started screaming because that >> >> was >> >> just so unexpected. >> >> Blind kids who don't read are at a total disadvantage when it comes to >> >> kissing for the first time, because they don't really know what >> >> entails. >> >> Of >> >> >> >> course they can learn through experience, but I know for me >> >> personally, >> >> learning through experience has really turned me off of kissing and >> >> romantic >> >> >> >> encounters altogether. I had to get used to the fact that, yes, this >> >> is >> >> what >> >> >> >> people do and yes, that's a way to show affection. >> >> On another note, when I first felt what a naked woman looked like, I >> >> thought >> >> >> >> it was pretty gross as well! Who knew they were that harry? I thought >> >> women >> >> >> >> didn't grow hair on their body? It's only been through time that I've >> >> come >> >> to realize the beauty in mail and female bodies and it has been my >> >> active >> >> exploration of romance that I've found the beauty in many of the nasty >> >> things that are a part of romance. >> >> It's an uncomfortable subject that most people aren't really willing >> >> to >> >> talk >> >> >> >> about, let alone teach and I think much of us blind folks are really >> >> delayed >> >> >> >> when it comes to these romantic encounters. (Making out for the first >> >> time >> >> at 22? I'm 20 and still haven't ever had a good kiss, not seeing a >> >> naked >> >> woman till I was 17, not knowing where the umbilical chord is located? >> >> I've >> >> >> >> never looked at porn and goodness knows I've tried, not knowing that >> >> breasts >> >> >> >> are private on a woman...) >> >> Yes I talked to a TVI who had to tell her student to stop feeling >> >> women's >> >> boobs, because no one would stop him. "He's blind and he can't see me, >> >> plus >> >> >> >> it feels good, so I'll playfully bat him away..." >> >> Ladies does that sound very attractive, having a blind guy touch your >> >> breasts in greeting? And if you got into a relationship he wouldn't >> >> just >> >> touch yours, he'd touch everyone's? >> >> Parents often have a hard time with teaching their blind kids how to >> >> play, >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> don't think there's going to be much teaching about love or sex in >> >> that >> >> household. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:32 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> >> >> Hi Brandon, >> >> Again, you're making a lot of valid points, but I have to question one >> >> statement you made concerning seeing couples making out and all that. >> >> Sighted people don't just watch what's being done and then >> >> automatically do it right 100% of the time, either. In fact, with sex >> >> there is no right or wrong, just what turns each individual on. >> >> Learning what that is in each new relationship is like driving a new >> >> car. You may know the rules of the road, but depending on the size of >> >> the car, the speed you're going, how much traffic is on the road, and >> >> other factors, you're going to have to navigate with more or less >> >> caution each time. Only by mastering each route as you become more >> >> comfortable with it can you fall into a pattern and stick with it. But >> >> if you're used to driving on quiet country roads, and then all of a >> >> sudden you move to New York City, you have to completely change your >> >> approach. Do you see where my analogy is heading? It's not sight or >> >> lack thereof that determines how much pleasure one can receive >> >> intimately. It's the individuals in question, their level of >> >> attraction, and how well they can communicate with each other to say >> >> what feels good and what doesn't. Because let's face it, there's a lot >> >> of feeling. If we spent all our time studying and copying others, we >> >> would all enjoy the same things done the exact same way. And, as I was >> >> starting to say in the beginning of my message, practice makes >> >> perfect. No one knows for sure what works and what doesn't the first >> >> few times, or the first few times in each successive relationship. >> >> Also, I forgot to address something you said in your first message >> >> concerning buying condoms. Honestly, sighted people have anonnymity >> >> when they do this. Whether a blind person knows what kind they want or >> >> not, they have to face the embarrassment of going up to the counter, >> >> asking for assistance, and then having to tell the clerk what they >> >> want. Unfortunately, there's just no way around that, so either way we >> >> lose on that scale. Maybe ordering them online could be an option if >> >> people don't want to take that route. Frankly, when I was a teenager, >> >> I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that either. >> >> >> >> On 7/12/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> >>> Joshua, >> >>> Nope; we are at a disadvantage in learning about sex. I think this >> >>> survey >> >>> is a good idea. >> >>> Without any vision, perhaps you don't realize how visual stuff is and >> >>> what >> >>> you are missing. Sex is portrayed in videos and pictures. Sighted >> >>> kids >> >>> learn >> >>> >> >>> from tv, movies, books and magazines. We do not see those pictures. >> >>> I remember this sex stuff as part of health class. We did not >> >>> discuss >> >>> anything controversial. We just learned about the body parts and >> >>> functions; >> >>> >> >>> however, it was kind of confusing without the visual pictures. >> >>> Come on, even if you wait til marriage, do you really want your wife >> >>> teaching you basic stuff about this activity? >> >>> Also, books do not mean much without a reference explaining the act. >> >>> I >> >>> know >> >>> >> >>> from experience. When a book says a certain term, I had no clue what >> >>> it >> >>> meant without looking it up! I won't get into details other than to >> >>> say >> >>> I >> >>> know less about sex than my peers my age. >> >>> >> >>> Ashley >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:10 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >>> >> >>> Hi, Amber! >> >>> You're right! >> >>> BTW, I like the lyrics in your signature! >> >>> That's one of my favorite songs! >> >>> Welcome to the list! >> >>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>> >> >>> On 7/12/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> >>>> Dear Joshua, >> >>>> >> >>>> I have to agree with you here! For me, the idea of knowing about >> >>>> sex, >> >>>> before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I >> >>>> guess? >> >>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes >> >>>> you >> >>>> should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind >> >>>> doesn't >> >>>> prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted people >> >>>> do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read books >> >>>> written >> >>>> on the topic (how confusing can text be?) >> >>>> >> >>>> Amber R. Herrin >> >>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012 >> >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >>>> Impossible is not a word >> >>>> It's just a reason >> >>>> For someone not to try >> >>>> >> >>>> Everybody's scared to death >> >>>> When they decide to take that step >> >>>> Out on the water >> >>>> It'll be alright >> >>>> >> >>>> Life is so much more >> >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >>>> You will find your way >> >>>> If you keep believing" >> >>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do" >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>> On >> >>>> Behalf >> >>>> Of Joshua Lester >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >>>> >> >>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new >> >>>> proposed >> >>>> curriculum, that they're wanting. >> >>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know, >> >>>> what's >> >>>> being >> >>>> shown, in those slides? >> >>>> Good grief! >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dave >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>Dear NFB Member, >> >>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >> >>>>>> help >> >>>>>>us with a current project. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >> >>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>>area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >> >>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >> >>>>>>standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >> >>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >> >>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work! >> >>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >> >>>>>> below: >> >>>>>>https://www.surveym >> >>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> =https:/>>>>>>/www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >> >>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>Thank you, >> >>>>>>Mika Baugh >> >>>>>>National Federation of the Blind >> >>>>>>200 East Wells Street >> >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >> >>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230 >> >>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >> >>>>>>E: mbaugh at nfb.org >> >>>>>>W: www.nfb.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dandrews at visi.com Sat Jul 14 18:20:57 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:20:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: %There isn't enough info here to answer your question. It depends on what you want to do with it. It seems that many people who are buying these little displays are using them to work with an iPhone or similar device, so they want something small and portable, and are probably reading more short things. If you want one to read long passages of Braille, then a short display may or may not work for you. Some people like a shorter display, 12, 14, 16, 18 or 20 cells, while others prefer a 40 or 80 cell display. Or if you want the note taking features, you should realize they are fairly basic -- this is not a Braille Sense or Braille Note replacement. Dave \At 09:01 PM 7/12/2012, you wrote: >I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 cells. >What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth my money? >Thanks, Joshua From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 18:31:54 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:31:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> Message-ID: <19F5FA5E994E4E4D898A0E9F07F5E0C1@Gloria> Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aleeha Dudley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Hi, > I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to > have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. > > Aleeha > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 18:44:06 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:44:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Hi, With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as long as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and serfing the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know what to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and their capabilities. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Hi the name here is jeff. > > I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they put > in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a > constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 > degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. > > but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret it. > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>> wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>> multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Find health%20insurance%20health >> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 14 18:49:58 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:49:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: I don't know much about the new Dels, but a Netbook isn't the way to go. I'm actually tempted to switch over to the Mac. PC's, and Jaws, are getting old! Blessings, Joshua On 7/14/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell > before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as long > > as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by > acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and serfing > > the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to > someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know what > > to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and > their capabilities. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > >> Hi the name here is jeff. >> >> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >> put >> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >> >> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >> it. >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>> wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>> the >>>> software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 18:49:26 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:49:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: <94300E8FDCC8459B92736880A142AB4F@AnjelinaPC> Hi Gloria, I have a newer Dell and it is much lighter and thinner than the older Dells. -----Original Message----- HTH Anjelina From: Gloria G Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Hi, With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as long as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and serfing the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know what to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and their capabilities. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Hi the name here is jeff. > > I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they put > in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a > constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 > degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. > > but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret it. > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>> wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>> multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Find health%20insurance%20health >> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 19:13:17 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:13:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com><71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: I really like JAWS, but have used a mac briefly. I guess it is whatever works for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >I don't know much about the new Dels, but a Netbook isn't the way to go. > I'm actually tempted to switch over to the Mac. > PC's, and Jaws, are getting old! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/14/12, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell >> before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as >> long >> >> as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by >> acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and >> serfing >> >> the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to >> someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know >> what >> >> to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and >> their capabilities. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> >>> Hi the name here is jeff. >>> >>> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >>> put >>> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >>> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >>> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >>> >>> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >>> it. >>> >>>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is >>>>> no >>>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>>> wires. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>>> >>>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>>> the >>>>> software. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 19:14:23 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:14:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com><71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> <94300E8FDCC8459B92736880A142AB4F@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: <27EEEA156880419780D6DA3836EDBF36@Gloria> Hi Angie, Thanks! Its hard to decide which computer to get. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Hi Gloria, > I have a newer Dell and it is much lighter and thinner than the older > Dells. > > -----Original Message----- > HTH > > Anjelina > From: Gloria G > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Hi, > With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell > before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as > long > as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by > acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and > serfing > the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to > someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know > what > to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and > their capabilities. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > >> Hi the name here is jeff. >> >> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >> put >> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >> >> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >> it. >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>> wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>> the >>>> software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 19:16:31 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:16:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device References: Message-ID: <2113349E1837408B9A774581E5EA3263@Gloria> Hi, Is this something that could fit in a purse? Can I also connect this to my I-phone or I-pad? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device > %There isn't enough info here to answer your question. It depends on what > you want to do with it. It seems that many people who are buying these > little displays are using them to work with an iPhone or similar device, > so they want something small and portable, and are probably reading more > short things. > > If you want one to read long passages of Braille, then a short display may > or may not work for you. Some people like a shorter display, 12, 14, 16, > 18 or 20 cells, while others prefer a 40 or 80 cell display. > > Or if you want the note taking features, you should realize they are > fairly basic -- this is not a Braille Sense or Braille Note replacement. > > Dave > > \At 09:01 PM 7/12/2012, you wrote: >>I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 cells. >>What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth my >>money? >>Thanks, Joshua > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 14 19:21:30 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:21:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: I have a question for those of you, that still have Jaws 10. How can I get Jaws to work with a flash-based site? Thanks, Joshua On 7/14/12, Gloria G wrote: > I really like JAWS, but have used a mac briefly. I guess it is whatever > works for you. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:49 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > >>I don't know much about the new Dels, but a Netbook isn't the way to go. >> I'm actually tempted to switch over to the Mac. >> PC's, and Jaws, are getting old! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/14/12, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi, >>> With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell >>> before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as >>> long >>> >>> as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by >>> acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and >>> serfing >>> >>> the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to >>> someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know >>> what >>> >>> to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and >>> their capabilities. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> >>>> Hi the name here is jeff. >>>> >>>> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >>>> put >>>> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at >>>> a >>>> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >>>> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >>>> >>>> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >>>> it. >>>> >>>>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>>>> >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is >>>>>> no >>>>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>>>> wires. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>>>> the >>>>>> software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>>>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 19:26:42 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 12:26:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: Acer Nerbooks Just windows 7 starter Which doesn't work with either JAWS AND ZOOM TEXT. Netbooks also don't have the power or capacity you need to run the screen reading programs. Deb Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 On Jul 14, 2012 12:15 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > I really like JAWS, but have used a mac briefly. I guess it is whatever > works for you. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" < > jlester8462 at students.pccua.**edu > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:49 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > > I don't know much about the new Dels, but a Netbook isn't the way to go. >> I'm actually tempted to switch over to the Mac. >> PC's, and Jaws, are getting old! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/14/12, Gloria G wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell >>> before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as >>> long >>> >>> as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by >>> acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and >>> serfing >>> >>> the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to >>> someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know >>> what >>> >>> to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and >>> their capabilities. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> >>> Hi the name here is jeff. >>>> >>>> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >>>> put >>>> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >>>> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >>>> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >>>> >>>> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>>>> >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is >>>>>> no >>>>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>>>> wires. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>>>> the >>>>>> software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>>>>> blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>>>> jlester8462%40students.pccua.**edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>>> dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>> anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**______________________________** >>>>> ________________________ >>>>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>>>> http://click.lavabit.com/**skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwje** >>>>> kcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>>>> ______________________________**______________________________** >>>>> ________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> jlester8462%40students.pccua.**edu >>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 19:36:12 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 15:36:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device In-Reply-To: <2113349E1837408B9A774581E5EA3263@Gloria> References: <2113349E1837408B9A774581E5EA3263@Gloria> Message-ID: What are the specs of this machine? On 7/14/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > Is this something that could fit in a purse? Can I also connect this to my > I-phone or I-pad? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The new Perkins Mini, 16-cell device > > >> %There isn't enough info here to answer your question. It depends on what >> >> you want to do with it. It seems that many people who are buying these >> little displays are using them to work with an iPhone or similar device, >> so they want something small and portable, and are probably reading more >> short things. >> >> If you want one to read long passages of Braille, then a short display may >> >> or may not work for you. Some people like a shorter display, 12, 14, 16, >> >> 18 or 20 cells, while others prefer a 40 or 80 cell display. >> >> Or if you want the note taking features, you should realize they are >> fairly basic -- this is not a Braille Sense or Braille Note replacement. >> >> Dave >> >> \At 09:01 PM 7/12/2012, you wrote: >>>I received an E-mail about the new Perkins Mini, that has 16 cells. >>>What is your opinion about it, and do you think it would be worth my >>>money? >>>Thanks, Joshua >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Jul 14 22:25:18 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:25:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: They have different lines of computers, that are different sizes, so no blanket statement is possible. Dave At 01:44 PM 7/14/2012, you wrote: >Hi, >With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a >dell before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to >much as long as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently >have a netbook by acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, >my email open and serfing the web, my computer freezes and i am >tired of that. I also talked to someone about getting a Tashiba, and >I am just confused and don't know what to get. I thank you all who >have given your opinions about computers and their capabilities. >----- Original Message ----- From: >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > >>Hi the name here is jeff. >> >>I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they put >>in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >>constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >>degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >> >>but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret it. >> >>>Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>>Anjelina >>>Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>>Hello, >>>>Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>>way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>>wires. >>>>Thanks, >>>> >>>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>>I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>>>software. >>>> >>>>Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>>Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi, Aleeha! >>>>>Welcome to the list! >>>>>I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>>On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>>>to >>>>>>have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>>Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>>I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>>like >>>>>>>to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>>multiple >>>>>>>things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>>Thanks From gloria.graves at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 22:49:08 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:49:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com><71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: Thanks I was just asking ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > They have different lines of computers, that are different sizes, so no > blanket statement is possible. > > Dave > > At 01:44 PM 7/14/2012, you wrote: >>Hi, >>With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell >>before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as >>long as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook >>by acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and >>serfing the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked >>to someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know >>what to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers >>and their capabilities. >>----- Original Message ----- From: >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> >>>Hi the name here is jeff. >>> >>>I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >>>put >>>in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >>>constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >>>degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >>> >>>but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >>>it. >>> >>>>Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>>> >>>>Anjelina >>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hello, >>>>>Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>>>way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>>>wires. >>>>>Thanks, >>>>> >>>>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>>> >>>>>I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>>>the >>>>>software. >>>>> >>>>>Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi, Aleeha! >>>>>>Welcome to the list! >>>>>>I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>>On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>>>seem >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Aleeha >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>>>I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>>>like >>>>>>>>to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>>>multiple >>>>>>>>things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>>>Thanks > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 23:03:30 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 19:03:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: Gloria, Any computer can freeze for many reasons. Your Acer probably froze because you did not have enough memory and jaws running coupled with other applications overwelmed it. Are you getting a laptop? I think any computer can be bulky. I'd guess a small laptop with a small screen would not be bulky. The best thing to do is to go to a store and handle them and see your options. Ask the salespeople how much they weigh if weight is a concern. Dell and HP both have their strong points. You definitely want one with a lot of memory and fast processing speed. I 7 is the fastest but for many people a 5 or 6 is good enough. I'd also buy a service contract for it if you can. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Hi, With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as long as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and serfing the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know what to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and their capabilities. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Hi the name here is jeff. > > I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they put > in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a > constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 > degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. > > but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret it. > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>> wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>> multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Find health%20insurance%20health >> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 14 23:17:19 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:17:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria> <0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com> <5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com> <71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi Gloria and all, I have had an Acer netbook since December 2009 and it works fine with JAWS for the most part. It has started freezing every once in a while after I installed Windows 7, but it's hard to know if that's a JAWS issue or not, and it only happens every once in a while. If your netbook is freezing a lot, before buying a new computer, it'd be worth taking it to an IT center or computer repair shop to have it looked at and see if there's something wrong with the software that's causing the frequent freezing. It could very well be a simple issue that has nothing to do with JAWS and can be fixed without buying a new computer. Netbooks have several advantages, including longer battery life and increased portability not to mention lower cost. My netbook puts less strain on my back and shoulders than my laptop did and that's why I continue to use it. I still have the old Dell laptop and use it when I need more computing power, or when I prefer to use Microsoft 2003 instead of 2010 for something, but I've found my netbook works quite well overall. I wouldn't let fears about processing power stop anyone from buying a netbook unless you plan to play games or do something else that's beyond typical student computer use. Best, Arielle On 7/14/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Gloria, > Any computer can freeze for many reasons. Your Acer probably froze because > you did not have enough memory and jaws running coupled with other > applications overwelmed it. Are you getting a laptop? I think any > computer can be bulky. I'd guess a small laptop with a small screen would > not be bulky. > The best thing to do is to go to a store and handle them and see your > options. Ask the salespeople how much they weigh if weight is a concern. > > Dell and HP both have their strong points. You definitely want one with a > lot of memory and > fast processing speed. I 7 is the fastest but for many people a 5 or 6 is > good enough. > I'd also buy a service contract for it if you can. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Hi, > With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell > before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as > long > as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by > acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and serfing > the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to > someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know what > to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and > their capabilities. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > >> Hi the name here is jeff. >> >> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >> put >> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >> >> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >> it. >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>> wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>> the >>>> software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 17:33:46 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:33:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Message-ID: <5002ff1b.e325ec0a.450c.ffffe140@mx.google.com> Hi listers I want to receive Future Reflections via email. Is there a way to do this? Please let me know as soon as possble. Feel free to email me any time offlist. From hope.paulos at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 01:45:25 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:45:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist with tuition Message-ID: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> Hello. Can any of you provide me with a website where national grants are offered to assist with tuition? I'd like to become a teacher of the visually impaired but am finding funding difficult. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Hope Paulos From daviddod at buffalo.edu Mon Jul 16 02:04:13 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:04:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist with tuition In-Reply-To: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> References: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hope, The very best way to go about funding for college is to go to the Financial Aid office at the particular college or university you plan to get the degree from. There are a couple different ways to pay for an education. (1) Grants - - Grants are awarded by the government and private organizations to help eligible students pay for school. In most cases grants do not need to be repaid. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ (2) Student Loans - - Student loans are offered by the U.S. government. You can pay these back in low interest or interest-free monthly payments. (3) Scholarships - Scholarships are given out by either the government or by private companies. Your grades, religious affiliation and other factors will help you qualify for these. To adequitely decide the way(s) in which you need to proceed though you really have to talk with a financial aid counselor that knows a great deal about these issues. Navagating financial aid offices can be extremely frustrating. Some tips: (1) Try to get there in person and if you can't set up a phone appointment (2) Have prior transcripts from high school or college as appropriate with you for the appointment (3) Have information about prior funding and taxes with you as appropriate for the appointment (4) Try not to get frustrated keep going back as needed This is vague, I know. However, I hope it is some help to you. Davd ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hello. Can any of you provide me with a website where national grants are > offered to assist with tuition? I'd like to become a teacher of the > visually > impaired but am finding funding difficult. Any help you can provide would > be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Hope Paulos > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 02:58:48 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:58:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist withtuition In-Reply-To: References: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, if you contact your rehabilitation counselor they should throw some money at you... If you already have a BA it may be a little more difficult, but if you're not able to find work as a TVI, they should help. If I were you, I'd try to be an assistant to a TVI and teach skills that don't require the training. Then when they've seen you work, often times the employment agency will help you fund the program. Also, I believe the NFB has some programs for people who want to become TVIs. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: David Dodge Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist withtuition Hope, The very best way to go about funding for college is to go to the Financial Aid office at the particular college or university you plan to get the degree from. There are a couple different ways to pay for an education. (1) Grants - - Grants are awarded by the government and private organizations to help eligible students pay for school. In most cases grants do not need to be repaid. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ (2) Student Loans - - Student loans are offered by the U.S. government. You can pay these back in low interest or interest-free monthly payments. (3) Scholarships - Scholarships are given out by either the government or by private companies. Your grades, religious affiliation and other factors will help you qualify for these. To adequitely decide the way(s) in which you need to proceed though you really have to talk with a financial aid counselor that knows a great deal about these issues. Navagating financial aid offices can be extremely frustrating. Some tips: (1) Try to get there in person and if you can't set up a phone appointment (2) Have prior transcripts from high school or college as appropriate with you for the appointment (3) Have information about prior funding and taxes with you as appropriate for the appointment (4) Try not to get frustrated keep going back as needed This is vague, I know. However, I hope it is some help to you. Davd ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hello. Can any of you provide me with a website where national grants are > offered to assist with tuition? I'd like to become a teacher of the > visually > impaired but am finding funding difficult. Any help you can provide would > be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Hope Paulos > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From herrinar at muohio.edu Mon Jul 16 04:09:38 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R. ) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:09:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber In-Reply-To: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> References: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> Roanna, Thank you so much for your warm welcome. I hope to be getting to know each of you as you permit. How do you pronounce your name, by the way? It is very unique. I like unique. Best, Amber On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Jul 16 04:13:33 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:13:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber In-Reply-To: <526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> References: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> <526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Amber. Welcome to the list again! BTW, I hope you received my E-mail. The reason I've said this, on here, is because as of late, my E-mail has been acting up. Thanks, Joshua On 7/15/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Roanna, > > Thank you so much for your warm welcome. > > I hope to be getting to know each of you as you permit. > > How do you pronounce your name, by the way? > > It is very unique. I like unique. > > Best, > > Amber > > > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > >> Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. >> Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any >> questions about anything feel free to ask. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From daviddod at buffalo.edu Mon Jul 16 04:16:08 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:16:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber In-Reply-To: <526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> References: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> <526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: Welcome, Amber! :) I hope you find the list useful. David ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Roanna, > > Thank you so much for your warm welcome. > > I hope to be getting to know each of you as you permit. > > How do you pronounce your name, by the way? > > It is very unique. I like unique. > > Best, > > Amber > > > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Roanna Baccchus > wrote: > > > Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. > Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any > questions about anything feel free to ask. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 04:46:50 2012 From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:46:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber References: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com> <526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: <0990EEC99F344930952A808A6DFBE64E@dougc3dc80fe4d> welcome Amber ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herrin, Amber R. " To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber > Roanna, > > Thank you so much for your warm welcome. > > I hope to be getting to know each of you as you permit. > > How do you pronounce your name, by the way? > > It is very unique. I like unique. > > Best, > > Amber > > > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Roanna Baccchus > wrote: > >> Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. >> Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any >> questions about anything feel free to ask. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 06:24:52 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:24:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist withtuition In-Reply-To: References: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Look up the Teachers of Tomorrow program with the NFB. I'm not sure that it helps with school, but you will be awarded several great opportunities like attending NFB events and networking with other TVI's. I think you have to already be in school to become a TVI to apply for this, but I really don't know any details. And from personal experience, I had a lot more success applying for local scholarships. There is a website, www.fastweb.net that has a database of scholarships, but like I said, local is better. Cindy On 7/15/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, if you contact your rehabilitation counselor they should throw some > money at you... If you already have a BA it may be a little more difficult, > > but if you're not able to find work as a TVI, they should help. If I were > you, I'd try to be an assistant to a TVI and teach skills that don't require > > the training. Then when they've seen you work, often times the employment > agency will help you fund the program. > Also, I believe the NFB has some programs for people who want to become > TVIs. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dodge > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist > withtuition > > Hope, > The very best way to go about funding for college is to go to the Financial > Aid office at the particular college or university you plan to get the > degree from. > > There are a couple different ways to pay for an education. > > (1) Grants - > > - Grants are awarded by the government and private organizations to help > eligible students pay for school. In most cases grants do not need to be > repaid. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ > > (2) Student Loans - > > - Student loans are offered by the U.S. government. You can pay these > back in low interest or interest-free monthly payments. > > (3) Scholarships > > - Scholarships are given out by either the government or by private > companies. Your grades, religious affiliation and other factors will > help > you qualify for these. > > To adequitely decide the way(s) in which you need to proceed though you > really have to talk with a financial aid counselor that knows a great deal > about these issues. > > Navagating financial aid offices can be extremely frustrating. Some tips: > > (1) Try to get there in person and if you can't set up a phone appointment > > (2) Have prior transcripts from high school or college as appropriate with > you for the appointment > > (3) Have information about prior funding and taxes with you as appropriate > for the appointment > > (4) Try not to get frustrated keep going back as needed > > This is vague, I know. However, I hope it is some help to you. > > Davd > ---------------------------------- > David Dodge > Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson > English Major > University at Buffalo > 306 Clemens Hall > Buffalo, NY 14260 > daviddod at buffalo.edu > > > On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: > >> Hello. Can any of you provide me with a website where national grants are >> offered to assist with tuition? I'd like to become a teacher of the >> visually >> impaired but am finding funding difficult. Any help you can provide would >> be >> greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Hope Paulos >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 07:53:32 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:53:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <1EE0A623B41A487C9B37706741CC5F8D@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2> <1EE0A623B41A487C9B37706741CC5F8D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <599AE81A-268D-4E2F-9574-7FBCCA7243CA@gmail.com> Have you really googled "disabling mouse pad on HP xxxxx"? Obviously xxxx stands for your computer model. I've seen several HP laptops and there's always a quick way to disable the mouse pad because it's quite normal for anyone to accidentally touch it while typing. Just make sure there isn't a very simple way to do this... On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:57 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, I tried everything except for cutting the wires. I could higher a hacker to go into my system shell and put an error in all the checkers that force load the drivers, but this computer probably won't last long enough for me to find anyone with the skill to do that well. > The card thing would work, except there is this thing called 3 fingered gestures that are activated anytime the mouse pad is touched by something larger than the finger. ATM I'm just super await of where ever my curser is at all times and I try to restrain myself from throwing my computer against the wall when I type a whole email into the search box of WLM. > It would be nice if Jaws or the laptop made a little click sound when the mouse was activated, so I'd notice... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Hi, > maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the store you > bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. I would > think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. > > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, I > just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and now > I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, though; > I'm just making an educated guess here. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon Jul 16 13:36:06 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:36:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com><1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC><7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the list. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi all, I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or at least the age of consent. I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it for those who really could use this information. On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> Ashley, >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >> wrote: >> >>> Sophie, >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>> supplements it. >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>> >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>> just how I don't understand. >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>> after they came out of the womb. >>> I >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>> >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>> curriculum for sex ed. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear NFB Member, >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>> help us with a current project. >>> >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>> below: >>> https://www.su >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>> >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Mika Baugh >>> National Federation of the Blind >>> 200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>> W: www.nfb.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>> rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From gpaikens at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 13:36:27 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:36:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist withtuition In-Reply-To: References: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4087E280-582D-4B55-AE52-DA3B1B547291@gmail.com> Also Hope, try contacting the specific programs you are interested in to ask about funding. The department of education gives out money every year to programs preparing TVIs because there is such a shortage of them nationally. You might find that the program you are interested in has money to fund part or all of your course work in teaching. Best of luck, Greg On Jul 16, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > Look up the Teachers of Tomorrow program with the NFB. I'm not sure > that it helps with school, but you will be awarded several great > opportunities like attending NFB events and networking with other > TVI's. I think you have to already be in school to become a TVI to > apply for this, but I really don't know any details. > > And from personal experience, I had a lot more success applying for > local scholarships. There is a website, www.fastweb.net that has a > database of scholarships, but like I said, local is better. > > Cindy > > On 7/15/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, if you contact your rehabilitation counselor they should throw some >> money at you... If you already have a BA it may be a little more difficult, >> >> but if you're not able to find work as a TVI, they should help. If I were >> you, I'd try to be an assistant to a TVI and teach skills that don't require >> >> the training. Then when they've seen you work, often times the employment >> agency will help you fund the program. >> Also, I believe the NFB has some programs for people who want to become >> TVIs. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Dodge >> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:04 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist >> withtuition >> >> Hope, >> The very best way to go about funding for college is to go to the Financial >> Aid office at the particular college or university you plan to get the >> degree from. >> >> There are a couple different ways to pay for an education. >> >> (1) Grants - >> >> - Grants are awarded by the government and private organizations to help >> eligible students pay for school. In most cases grants do not need to be >> repaid. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ >> >> (2) Student Loans - >> >> - Student loans are offered by the U.S. government. You can pay these >> back in low interest or interest-free monthly payments. >> >> (3) Scholarships >> >> - Scholarships are given out by either the government or by private >> companies. Your grades, religious affiliation and other factors will >> help >> you qualify for these. >> >> To adequitely decide the way(s) in which you need to proceed though you >> really have to talk with a financial aid counselor that knows a great deal >> about these issues. >> >> Navagating financial aid offices can be extremely frustrating. Some tips: >> >> (1) Try to get there in person and if you can't set up a phone appointment >> >> (2) Have prior transcripts from high school or college as appropriate with >> you for the appointment >> >> (3) Have information about prior funding and taxes with you as appropriate >> for the appointment >> >> (4) Try not to get frustrated keep going back as needed >> >> This is vague, I know. However, I hope it is some help to you. >> >> Davd >> ---------------------------------- >> David Dodge >> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >> English Major >> University at Buffalo >> 306 Clemens Hall >> Buffalo, NY 14260 >> daviddod at buffalo.edu >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: >> >>> Hello. Can any of you provide me with a website where national grants are >>> offered to assist with tuition? I'd like to become a teacher of the >>> visually >>> impaired but am finding funding difficult. Any help you can provide would >>> be >>> greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Hope Paulos >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 12:21:43 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:21:43 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber In-Reply-To: References: <50002bf6.6874ec0a.13cf.7d04@mx.google.com><526FFCC0-F90F-473F-8A71-C4E5C1284DA5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: Welcome Amber, I hope you find the list helpful. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Dodge Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Welcome Amber Welcome, Amber! :) I hope you find the list useful. David ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Roanna, > > Thank you so much for your warm welcome. > > I hope to be getting to know each of you as you permit. > > How do you pronounce your name, by the way? > > It is very unique. I like unique. > > Best, > > Amber > > > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Roanna Baccchus > wrote: > > > Hi Amber welcome to the list. I'm glad that you decided to nin us. > Everyone provides helpful information for each other. If you have any > questions about anything feel free to ask. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 15:54:10 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:54:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <599AE81A-268D-4E2F-9574-7FBCCA7243CA@gmail.com> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><1EE0A623B41A487C9B37706741CC5F8D@BrandonsLaptop2> <599AE81A-268D-4E2F-9574-7FBCCA7243CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, and what happens when I do that is not all of it gets disabled and if you brush your palm on the touchpad, it will for example select a large chunk of text and put your curser there. I'd much rather deal with my curser randomly jumping around than my curser removing huge chunks of text... I spent a week on the phone with HP, on Google, going to software engineers and no one was able to help. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Díaz Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 12:53 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers Have you really googled "disabling mouse pad on HP xxxxx"? Obviously xxxx stands for your computer model. I've seen several HP laptops and there's always a quick way to disable the mouse pad because it's quite normal for anyone to accidentally touch it while typing. Just make sure there isn't a very simple way to do this... On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:57 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Again, I tried everything except for cutting the wires. I could higher a > hacker to go into my system shell and put an error in all the checkers > that force load the drivers, but this computer probably won't last long > enough for me to find anyone with the skill to do that well. > The card thing would work, except there is this thing called 3 fingered > gestures that are activated anytime the mouse pad is touched by something > larger than the finger. ATM I'm just super await of where ever my curser > is at all times and I try to restrain myself from throwing my computer > against the wall when I type a whole email into the search box of WLM. > It would be nice if Jaws or the laptop made a little click sound when the > mouse was activated, so I'd notice... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Hi, > maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the store > you > bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. I > would > think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. > > -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like Rania, > I > just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and > now > I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, > though; > I'm just making an educated guess here. > > Chris Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: > >> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>> wires. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>> >>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of the >>> software. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>> Welcome to the list! >>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They seem >>>>> to >>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>> >>>>> Aleeha >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>> multiple >>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 16:12:29 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:12:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><1EE0A623B41A487C9B37706741CC5F8D@BrandonsLaptop2> <599AE81A-268D-4E2F-9574-7FBCCA7243CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50043D6D.6020001@tysdomain.com> why not just go to device manager and... disable the mouse! On 7/16/2012 9:54 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Yes, and what happens when I do that is not all of it gets disabled > and if you brush your palm on the touchpad, it will for example select > a large chunk of text and put your curser there. I'd much rather deal > with my curser randomly jumping around than my curser removing huge > chunks of text... > I spent a week on the phone with HP, on Google, going to software > engineers and no one was able to help. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Díaz > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 12:53 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Have you really googled "disabling mouse pad on HP xxxxx"? Obviously > xxxx stands for your computer model. I've seen several HP laptops and > there's always a quick way to disable the mouse pad because it's quite > normal for anyone to accidentally touch it while typing. Just make > sure there isn't a very simple way to do this... > On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:57 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, >> Again, I tried everything except for cutting the wires. I could >> higher a hacker to go into my system shell and put an error in all >> the checkers that force load the drivers, but this computer probably >> won't last long enough for me to find anyone with the skill to do >> that well. >> The card thing would work, except there is this thing called 3 >> fingered gestures that are activated anytime the mouse pad is touched >> by something larger than the finger. ATM I'm just super await of >> where ever my curser is at all times and I try to restrain myself >> from throwing my computer against the wall when I type a whole email >> into the search box of WLM. >> It would be nice if Jaws or the laptop made a little click sound when >> the mouse was activated, so I'd notice... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> Hi, >> maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the >> store you >> bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. >> I would >> think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like >> Rania, I >> just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, >> and now >> I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, >> though; >> I'm just making an educated guess here. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there >>>> is no way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but >>>> cutting the wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility >>>> of the software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and >>>>>>> would like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 17:17:03 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:17:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers In-Reply-To: <50043D6D.6020001@tysdomain.com> References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><1EE0A623B41A487C9B37706741CC5F8D@BrandonsLaptop2><599AE81A-268D-4E2F-9574-7FBCCA7243CA@gmail.com> <50043D6D.6020001@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello, Disabling the mouse only leads to the symptoms I outlined below. It doesn't really disable the sensitivity, just the accuracy. On my computer, the mouse pad becomes activated after I shut the lid, shut down the computer or the computer goes onto stand by. Because I have a laptop and I'm a student, stand by to on is the majority of my day, so even if deactivating the mouse worked, it would still be very cumbersome to tap the corner of the mouse pad, or go into device manager to turn off the mouse. I'm thinking there was some error in the drivers, but I've reinstalled the drivers tons of times and still the same thing happens. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:12 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers why not just go to device manager and... disable the mouse! On 7/16/2012 9:54 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Yes, and what happens when I do that is not all of it gets disabled and if > you brush your palm on the touchpad, it will for example select a large > chunk of text and put your curser there. I'd much rather deal with my > curser randomly jumping around than my curser removing huge chunks of > text... > I spent a week on the phone with HP, on Google, going to software > engineers and no one was able to help. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Díaz > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 12:53 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Have you really googled "disabling mouse pad on HP xxxxx"? Obviously xxxx > stands for your computer model. I've seen several HP laptops and there's > always a quick way to disable the mouse pad because it's quite normal for > anyone to accidentally touch it while typing. Just make sure there isn't a > very simple way to do this... > On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:57 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, >> Again, I tried everything except for cutting the wires. I could higher a >> hacker to go into my system shell and put an error in all the checkers >> that force load the drivers, but this computer probably won't last long >> enough for me to find anyone with the skill to do that well. >> The card thing would work, except there is this thing called 3 fingered >> gestures that are activated anytime the mouse pad is touched by something >> larger than the finger. ATM I'm just super await of where ever my curser >> is at all times and I try to restrain myself from throwing my computer >> against the wall when I type a whole email into the search box of WLM. >> It would be nice if Jaws or the laptop made a little click sound when the >> mouse was activated, so I'd notice... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> Hi, >> maybe there is a way to turn the mouse pad off. Why not go to the store >> you >> bought it at and see if they can offer some tech support or call hp. I >> would >> think there would be a way to disable the mouse pad. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> Probably not, as the mousepad on HP laptops is very sensitive. Like >> Rania, I >> just got used to it and try to keep my hand away from the mousepad, and >> now >> I very rarely bump it. Brandon, you can try it and see if it works, >> though; >> I'm just making an educated guess here. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Anjelina wrote: >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>> wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>> the software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Jul 16 17:05:36 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:05:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fld bs.net> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most >subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way >you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on >the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >list. > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >Hi all, >I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >at least the age of consent. >I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >for those who really could use this information. > >On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > Hi all, > > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > > questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > > I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > > Best, > > Arielle > > > > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> Ashley, > >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you > >> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sophie, > >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > >>> supplements it. > >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model > >>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > >>> > >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or > >>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >its about. > >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role > >>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets > >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but > >>> just how I don't understand. > >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started > >>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the > > >>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she > >>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told > > >>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know > >>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out > >>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried > >>> after they came out of the womb. > >>> I > >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping > >>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of > >>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > >>> > >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took > >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative > >>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special > >>> curriculum for sex ed. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: David Andrews >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> > >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: > >>> > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear NFB Member, > >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > >>> help us with a current project. > >>> > >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > > >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > >>> We want your voice to impact our work! > >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > >>> below: > >>> https://www.su > >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >> > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> Mika Baugh > >>> National Federation of the Blind > >>> 200 East Wells Street > >>> at Jernigan Place > >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org > >>> W: www.nfb.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>> r%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea > >>> rthlink.net > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g > >>> mail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail > >> .com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > > ail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >fldoe.org > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From daviddod at buffalo.edu Mon Jul 16 17:20:33 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:20:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: I do not think we can or should treat sex education different from any other type of education. If a person needs adaptations so that they can understand the concepts and any required assesmsnfs then that needs to take place in an qppeopraite way. David On Monday, July 16, 2012, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most > subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a > special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way > you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on > the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the > list. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Hi all, > I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is > just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that > there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked > about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up > people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? > I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a > list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people > here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some > of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably > beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little > late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this > nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't > offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink > the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they > can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of > this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or > at least the age of consent. > I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain > members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, > there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those > for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are > reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading > this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but > feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it > for those who really could use this information. > > On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> Ashley, >>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sophie, >>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>>> supplements it. >>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>>> >>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what > its about. >>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>>> just how I don't understand. >>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the > >>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told > >>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>>> after they came out of the womb. >>>> I >>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>>> >>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>>> curriculum for sex ed. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> >>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>> help us with a current project. >>>> >>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > >>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>>> below: >>>> https://www.su >>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Mika Baugh >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>> at Jernigan Place >>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>> rthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>> .com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > -- ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu From kaybaycar at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 17:49:24 2012 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:49:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer Message-ID: Hi everyone. I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these problems occured, but I definitely need something new. I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots software. I would love something that can last me more than two years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks. -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 18:15:42 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:15:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller attack surface. As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. HTH, On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am > also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. > I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems > with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If > it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also > freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these > problems occured, but I definitely need something new. > > I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 > hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a > Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a > daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of > programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on > it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots > software. I would love something that can last me more than two > years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the > different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much > appreciated. Thanks. > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Jul 16 18:16:46 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:16:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120716105833.01cf0268@comcast.net> Good afternoon, David, At least in my experience, a course in sex ed did find me via ways in which sex is supposed to be conveyed, on a purely, physical plane in which no particular adaptations or modifications were necessary. I mean, how else do people expect to learn these concepts, honestly? And Those weird, so-called anatomically correct googoo dolls they gave me in 6th grade were corny, beyond belief in fact. Besides, I know I only fully grasp concepts after seeing how it applies to my own experience. In fact one thing I did learn from seeing the female googoo doll was that I don't need a fur burger. 'taught me about shaving. the20 AM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >I do not think we can or should treat sex education different from any >other type of education. If a person needs adaptations so that they can >understand the concepts and any required assesmsnfs then that needs to take >place in an qppeopraite way. > >David > >On Monday, July 16, 2012, Wasif, Zunaira >wrote: > > How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most > > subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a > > special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way > > you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on > > the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the > > list. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > > > Hi all, > > I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is > > just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that > > there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked > > about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up > > people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? > > I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a > > list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people > > here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some > > of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably > > beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little > > late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this > > nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't > > offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink > > the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they > > can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of > > this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or > > at least the age of consent. > > I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain > > members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, > > there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those > > for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are > > reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading > > this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but > > feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it > > for those who really could use this information. > > > > On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > >> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > >> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > >> Best, > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >>> Ashley, > >>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you > >>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Sophie, > >>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > >>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > >>>> supplements it. > >>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model > >>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > >>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > >>>> > >>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or > >>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what > > its about. > >>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role > >>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets > >>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but > >>>> just how I don't understand. > >>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > >>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started > >>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the > > > >>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she > >>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told > > > >>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know > >>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out > >>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried > >>>> after they came out of the womb. > >>>> I > >>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping > >>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of > >>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > >>>> > >>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. > >>>> Ashley > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>>> > >>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took > >>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative > >>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special > >>>> curriculum for sex ed. > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dave > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dear NFB Member, > >>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > >>>> help us with a current project. > >>>> > >>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > >>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > > > >>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > >>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > >>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > >>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > >>>> We want your voice to impact our work! > >>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > >>>> below: > >>>> https://www.su > >>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>>> > >> > > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > >>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thank you, > >>>> Mika Baugh > >>>> National Federation of the Blind > >>>> 200 East Wells Street > >>>> at Jernigan Place > >>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org > >>>> W: www.nfb.org > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>> r%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea > >>>> rthlink.net > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g > >>>> mail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail > >>> .com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > >> ail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > > fldoe.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > > > >-- >---------------------------------- >David Dodge >Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >English Major >University at Buffalo >306 Clemens Hall >Buffalo, NY 14260 >daviddod at buffalo.edu >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Jul 16 18:47:05 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:47:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and the easiest way, is through Youtube. Youtube works better with IE. I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer freeze up! Not cool! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your > computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what > you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and > Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security > Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or > so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's > still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller > attack surface. > > As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo > has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of > my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 > hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you > don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. > HTH, > On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Hi everyone. >> >> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >> >> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >> appreciated. Thanks. >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 18:59:42 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:59:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> If I can dig through the random commas, the point you're trying to make is that firefox and youtube don't work together. I'm not really sure where you get this from, but all you need is the adobe flash plugin, and youtube and firefox work great together. Any flash works great with firefox honestly, it's the same system as internet explorer uses, it just uses a different interface to link up with Firefox's plugin API. On 7/16/2012 12:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. > Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and > the easiest way, is through Youtube. > Youtube works better with IE. > I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer freeze up! > Not cool! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >> attack surface. >> >> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >> HTH, >> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi everyone. >>> >>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>> >>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>> appreciated. Thanks. >>> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 19:04:02 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:04:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> There might be something worth trying, on the same note. If firefox lags sometimes, just disable hardware accelleration (it's really cool, when it actually works). it's under tools and options, and if I remember correctly advanced. Just uncheck the box. On 7/16/2012 12:59 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > If I can dig through the random commas, the point you're trying to > make is that firefox and youtube don't work together. I'm not really > sure where you get this from, but all you need is the adobe flash > plugin, and youtube and firefox work great together. Any flash works > great with firefox honestly, it's the same system as internet explorer > uses, it just uses a different interface to link up with Firefox's > plugin API. > > On 7/16/2012 12:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. >> Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and >> the easiest way, is through Youtube. >> Youtube works better with IE. >> I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer >> freeze up! >> Not cool! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >>> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >>> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >>> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >>> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >>> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >>> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >>> attack surface. >>> >>> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >>> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >>> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >>> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >>> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >>> HTH, >>> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>> Hi everyone. >>>> >>>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>>> >>>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>>> appreciated. Thanks. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>> he that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 19:09:02 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:09:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <-7347650684627598097@unknownmsgid> Joshua, Please stop consistently sending incorrect information to the list. Firefox is a great, accessible web browser which does work with youtube just fine. If you have a problem try to resolve it, but stop telling people that something doesn't work just because you haven't been able to figure it out. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. > Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and > the easiest way, is through Youtube. > Youtube works better with IE. > I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer freeze up! > Not cool! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >> attack surface. >> >> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >> HTH, >> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi everyone. >>> >>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>> >>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>> appreciated. Thanks. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Jul 16 19:12:00 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:12:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: How might I go about disabling that stuff? I have the latest Adobe flash player so I don't know what's going on! Thanks, Joshua On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > There might be something worth trying, on the same note. If firefox lags > sometimes, just disable hardware accelleration (it's really cool, when > it actually works). it's under tools and options, and if I remember > correctly advanced. Just uncheck the box. > On 7/16/2012 12:59 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> If I can dig through the random commas, the point you're trying to >> make is that firefox and youtube don't work together. I'm not really >> sure where you get this from, but all you need is the adobe flash >> plugin, and youtube and firefox work great together. Any flash works >> great with firefox honestly, it's the same system as internet explorer >> uses, it just uses a different interface to link up with Firefox's >> plugin API. >> >> On 7/16/2012 12:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. >>> Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and >>> the easiest way, is through Youtube. >>> Youtube works better with IE. >>> I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer >>> freeze up! >>> Not cool! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >>>> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >>>> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >>>> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >>>> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >>>> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >>>> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >>>> attack surface. >>>> >>>> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >>>> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >>>> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >>>> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >>>> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >>>> HTH, >>>> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone. >>>>> >>>>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>>>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>>>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>>>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>>>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>>>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>>>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>>>> >>>>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>>>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>>>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>>>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>>>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>>>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>>>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>>>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>>>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>>>> appreciated. Thanks. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>> he that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 19:21:29 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:21:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <500469B9.3040907@tysdomain.com> Josh, I told you to go to tools, options and advanced. Either you did not read my message, or you don't understand something. If it's the former, please go back and reread the steps I outlined. If the latter, you'll need to be a bit more specific as to what problems you are having with the disabling of hardware accelleration. On 7/16/2012 1:12 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > How might I go about disabling that stuff? > I have the latest Adobe flash player so I don't know what's going on! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> There might be something worth trying, on the same note. If firefox lags >> sometimes, just disable hardware accelleration (it's really cool, when >> it actually works). it's under tools and options, and if I remember >> correctly advanced. Just uncheck the box. >> On 7/16/2012 12:59 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> If I can dig through the random commas, the point you're trying to >>> make is that firefox and youtube don't work together. I'm not really >>> sure where you get this from, but all you need is the adobe flash >>> plugin, and youtube and firefox work great together. Any flash works >>> great with firefox honestly, it's the same system as internet explorer >>> uses, it just uses a different interface to link up with Firefox's >>> plugin API. >>> >>> On 7/16/2012 12:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. >>>> Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and >>>> the easiest way, is through Youtube. >>>> Youtube works better with IE. >>>> I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer >>>> freeze up! >>>> Not cool! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >>>>> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >>>>> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >>>>> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >>>>> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >>>>> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >>>>> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >>>>> attack surface. >>>>> >>>>> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >>>>> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >>>>> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >>>>> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >>>>> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >>>>> HTH, >>>>> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>> Hi everyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>>>>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>>>>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>>>>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>>>>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>>>>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>>>>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>>>>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>>>>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>>>>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>>>>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>>>>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>>>>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>>>>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>>>>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>>>>> appreciated. Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 20:08:51 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:08:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com><1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC><7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <7A3ED962A1804F10A43F71EA28A753D0@OwnerPC> Zenera, its not a separate curriculum; it would supplement current standards. While I don't see a separate curriculum being needed, I think a book about it with tactile diagrams would be very helpful. I think NBP has one about the topic, but not with diagrams. -----Original Message----- From: Wasif, Zunaira Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:36 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the list. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Hi all, I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or at least the age of consent. I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it for those who really could use this information. On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> Ashley, >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >> wrote: >> >>> Sophie, >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>> supplements it. >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>> >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what its about. >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>> just how I don't understand. >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>> after they came out of the womb. >>> I >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>> >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>> curriculum for sex ed. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear NFB Member, >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>> help us with a current project. >>> >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>> below: >>> https://www.su >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>> >>> >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Mika Baugh >>> National Federation of the Blind >>> 200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>> W: www.nfb.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>> rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 20:19:58 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:19:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com><1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC><7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid><2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> Message-ID: <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> Carley, Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its not a separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. We cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would love to see the curriculum once developed. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most >subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way >you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on >the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >list. > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >Hi all, >I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >at least the age of consent. >I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >for those who really could use this information. > >On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > Hi all, > > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > > questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > > I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > > Best, > > Arielle > > > > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> Ashley, > >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you > >> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sophie, > >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > >>> supplements it. > >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model > >>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > >>> > >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or > >>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >its about. > >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role > >>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets > >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but > >>> just how I don't understand. > >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started > >>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the > > >>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she > >>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told > > >>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know > >>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out > >>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried > >>> after they came out of the womb. > >>> I > >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping > >>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of > >>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > >>> > >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took > >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative > >>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special > >>> curriculum for sex ed. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: David Andrews >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> > >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: > >>> > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear NFB Member, > >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > >>> help us with a current project. > >>> > >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > > >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > >>> We want your voice to impact our work! > >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > >>> below: > >>> https://www.su > >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >> > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> Mika Baugh > >>> National Federation of the Blind > >>> 200 East Wells Street > >>> at Jernigan Place > >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org > >>> W: www.nfb.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>> r%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea > >>> rthlink.net > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g > >>> mail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail > >> .com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > > ail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >fldoe.org > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 20:21:16 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:21:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96E25F74ED0B45D3BC49D7C419902283@OwnerPC> Julie, get one with at least 4 gigs of memory. You want a fast processor too. I'd say a hp or toshiba. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer Hi everyone. I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these problems occured, but I definitely need something new. I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots software. I would love something that can last me more than two years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks. -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Jul 16 20:25:10 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:25:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120716132429.01c21dc0@comcast.net> A Afternoon, Ashley, Bad language? I was talking about a donkey.At 01:19 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >Carley, Can you refrain from using bad language. >Others have already said its not a separate >curriculum. Did you all who complain take the >survey? I did not yet. But due to the visual >stuff about it, it’s a good idea. We cannot se >it in movies, in magazines, or making out in >public. I think a book about it and the >reproductive system woule be real helpful. I >would love to see the curriculum once >developed. Ashley -----Original Message----- >From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, July 16, >2012 1:05 PM To: National Association of Blind >Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex >Education Curriculum I know. How is it that >people, due to a coincidental absence of an >ocular, input get off thinking themselves >special that they require some overly adapted >curriculum or equipment for participating in one >of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a >special blinkie toilet? This is how a blind man >wipes his ass, see look, it's especially adapted >for the sightless among us, it's made for the >ass of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How >is sex ed different than math or science or any >thing else? Most >subjects have a visual >component. Does that mean that we need >a >special curriculum for every thing? You >learn about sex in the same way >you learn about >any other social interaction. Like some other >people on >the list, I don't understand why this >can't be discussed openly on >the >list. > >-----Original Message----- >From: >nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of >Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 >11:07 PM >To: National Association of Blind >Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex >Education Curriculum > >Hi all, >I don't see why >this discussion should be banned from the list. >This is >just my opinion, and I don't mean to be >rude, but it seems to me that >there is a lot of >hesitation and outright disgust that's being >talked >about here. And, let's be honest, how >are we ever going to clear up >people's >misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >I >think it's probably easier for people to discuss >these matters on a >list where they can be >anonymous. Given the ages of some of the >people >here, I can see why there would be some >embarrassment involved if some >of you don't >know what certain things are. I think it's >probably >beneficial at this point to try and >help each other out. It's a little >late for us >to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop >all this >nervous tittering about terminology? >The terms Brandon used weren't >offensive. They >were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while >I hink >the examples he uses are slightly >exaggerated, that's not to say they >can never >happen, and I think if we're going to have a >discussion of >this nature, we need to be up >front about it. We're all adults here, or >at >least the age of consent. >I'm not talking about >some of the religious convictions that >certain >members have expressed. Those are >personal, and if that's how you feel, >there's >nothing wrong with that. But please take a step >outside those >for a moment and think of how >this discussion benefits others who >are >reading. I'll bet there are some people who >are sitting here reading >this, and have >questions and concerns they would like to >express, but >feel they can't for whatever >reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >for >those who really could use this >information. > >On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > > Hi all, > > >Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you >have anatomy > > questions, you can email me >offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > > I >did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology >classes. > > Best, > > Arielle > > > > On >7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra >wrote: > >> Ashley, > >> I believe you didn't >know about any of these things because you > >> >didn't inform yourself, not because you are >blind... > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> >On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley >Bramlett > >> > >> >wrote: > >> > >>> Sophie, > >>> I, too, took a >sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still >lack > >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this >replaces school education, it > >>> supplements >it. > >>> Having nonvisual access such as a >description, diagrams, or model > >>> would >further aide in our understanding of such a >matter. > >>> Guys you may want to skip the next >paragraph. > >>> > >>> For instance, My >brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen >or > >>> been explained what the birth process >is, I don't have a clue what >its about. > >>> >What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid >and what is its role > >>> in supporting the >fetus? I still don't understand how a baby >gets > >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I >know from the mother's food, but > >>> just how >I don't understand. > >>> They told me Steve, my >brother, cut the umbilical cord. > >>> But where >is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me >she started > >>> labour in the evening and went >to the hospital; she did not have the > > >>> >baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she >managed it; wasn't she > >>> tired? She informed >me she slept a little during the night. She >told > > >>> me the baby's head came out first >which was normal. I did not know > >>> this. I >learned from her as I held my nephew that the >head came out > >>> first and then the trunk and >limbs. I learned that babies cried > >>> after >they came out of the womb. > >>> I > >>> learned >that infants needed to get milk very often. I am >hoping > >>> Kasey will tell me more about her >pregnancy and the beginnings of > >>> it, AKA, >the sex part sometime. > >>> > >>> I think I'll >take that survey that started this. > >>> >Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >From: Sophie Trist > >>> Sent: Thursday, July >12, 2012 1:37 PM > >>> To: National Association >of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: >Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education >Curriculum > >>> > >>> Dave, I'm a little >confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I >took > >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I >found it to be very informative > >>> despite my >blindness. I don't understand why we need a >special > >>> curriculum for sex ed. > >>> > >>> >----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: David >Andrews >>> To: >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul >2012 20:52:03 -0500 > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex >Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> > >>> I have >been asked to circulate the >following: > >>> > >>> > >>> >Dave > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear NFB >Member, > >>> The National Federation of the >Blind has been gracious enough to > >>> help us >with a current project. > >>> > >>> We are >currently seeking your opinion in a survey that >will help us > >>> write a curriculum for >students with low vision and blindness in >the > > >>> area of sex education. Currently no >curriculum exists for students > >>> with low >vision and blindness that reflect current >education > >>> standards. Young people, >educators, and professionals have all > >>> >indicated that there is a desperate need for >such a curriculum. > >>> We want your voice to >impact our work! > >>> Please take the time to >fill out the survey at the link found > >>> >below: > >>> >https://www.su > > >>> >rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >>> > > >tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you for your time and >consideration of this project! > >>> Tiffany >Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin >Ryan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> >Mika Baugh > >>> National Federation of the >Blind > >>> 200 East Wells Street > >>> at >Jernigan Place > >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>> >P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>> E: >mbaugh at nfb.org > >>> W: >www.nfb.org > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > > >>> r%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >or get your account info > >>> for > >>> >nabs-l: > >>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea > > >>> rthlink.net > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >or get your account info > >>> for > >>> >nabs-l: > >>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g > > >>> mail.com > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail > > >> .com > >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > > > >ail.com > > > >__________________________________ >_____________ >nabs-l mailing >list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailma >n/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, >change your list options or get your account >info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/n >abs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >fldoe.org > > >_____________________________________________ >__ >nabs-l mailing >list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailma >n/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, >change your list options or get your account >info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/n >abs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > From valandkayla at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 20:40:58 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:40:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120716132429.01c21dc0@comcast.net> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716132429.01c21dc0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <98B5F369-569A-44DC-8ED3-7085E53F5696@gmail.com> I'm just going to say one thing: whomever brought up this topic: i could hit you upside the head with a wet noodle. :P That is all. I love a good debate as much as the next person, but we're going around in circles here. On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > A > Afternoon, Ashley, > > Bad language? I was talking about a donkey.At 01:19 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >> Carley, Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its not a separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. We cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would love to see the curriculum once developed. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most >subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way >you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on >the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >list. > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >Hi all, >I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >at least the age of consent. >I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >for those who really could use this information. > >On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > Hi all, > > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > > questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > > I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > > Best, > > Arielle > > > > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> Ashley, > >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you > >> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sophie, > >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > >>> supplements it. > >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model > >>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. > >>> > >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or > >>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >its about. > >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role > >>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets > >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but > >>> just how I don't understand. > >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. > >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started > >>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the > > >>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she > >>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told > > >>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know > >>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out > >>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried > >>> after they came out of the womb. > >>> I > >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping > >>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of > >>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. > >>> > >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took > >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative > >>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special > >>> curriculum for sex ed. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: David Andrews >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >>> > >>> > >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: > >>> > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear NFB Member, > >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to > >>> help us with a current project. > >>> > >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us > >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the > > >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students > >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education > >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all > >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. > >>> We want your voice to impact our work! > >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found > >>> below: > >>> https://www.su > >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >> > tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! > >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> Mika Baugh > >>> National Federation of the Blind > >>> 200 East Wells Street > >>> at Jernigan Place > >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 > >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 > >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org > >>> W: www.nfb.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>> r%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea > >>> rthlink.net > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g > >>> mail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail > >> .com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > > ail.com > > > >__________________________________ _____________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailma n/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/n abs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >fldoe.org > >_____________________________________________ __ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailma n/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/n abs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 20:42:44 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:42:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you can find an HP that can have its mouse pad turned off totally, my HP has all that. I can last 4 hours with 10 windows open, along with Jaws. This is why it still lives... My dell just had some oddities with the drivers not matching up with the hardware, but I loved my dell... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:49 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer Hi everyone. I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these problems occured, but I definitely need something new. I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots software. I would love something that can last me more than two years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks. -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 20:50:53 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:50:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Dear all, Sometimes I think I should come back to this list and regularly contribute...then I see the circus it so easily becomes. What I'm about to say, I mean with as much respect as possible, but, honestly, how do you people have the time for this? If we spent half the time we do e-mailing looking for jobs, I bet that 70 percent unemployment rate might be just a bit lower...something to think about? Best, Kirt On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Carley, > Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its not a > separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? > I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. We > cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a > book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would > love to see the curriculum once developed. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carly Mihalakis > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an > ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require > some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one > of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie > toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's > especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass > of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than > math or science or any thing else? Most >>subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way >>you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on >>the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>list. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >>Hi all, >>I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >>just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >>the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >>at least the age of consent. >>I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >>there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>for those who really could use this information. >> >>On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >> > questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >> > I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >> > Best, >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> >> Ashley, >> >> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >> >> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Sophie, >> >>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >> >>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >> >>> supplements it. >> >>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >> >>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >> >>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >> >>> >> >>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >> >>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >>its about. >> >>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >> >>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >> >>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >> >>> just how I don't understand. >> >>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >> >>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >> >>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >> >> >>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >> >>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >> >> >>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >> >>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >> >>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >> >>> after they came out of the womb. >> >>> I >> >>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >> >>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >> >>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >> >>> >> >>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >> >>> Ashley >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >>> >> >>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >> >>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >> >>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >> >>> curriculum for sex ed. >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: David Andrews > >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dave >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dear NFB Member, >> >>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >> >>> help us with a current project. >> >>> >> >>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >> >>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >> >> >>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >> >>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >> >>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >> >>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >> >>> We want your voice to impact our work! >> >>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >> >>> below: >> >>> https://www.su >> >>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>> >> >> >> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >> >>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thank you, >> >>> Mika Baugh >> >>> National Federation of the Blind >> >>> 200 East Wells Street >> >>> at Jernigan Place >> >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >> >>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >> >>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >> >>> W: www.nfb.org >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>> r%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >> >>> rthlink.net >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >> >>> mail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> >> .com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >> > ail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>fldoe.org >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From daviddod at buffalo.edu Mon Jul 16 21:04:33 2012 From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:04:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120716105833.01cf0268@comcast.net> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716105833.01cf0268@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carly, Thanks for your message. I quite agree that in some or most circumstances no adaptations would be needed. My point is that from a legal perspective sex education shouldn't be treated differently than anything else. David On Monday, July 16, 2012, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good afternoon, David, > > At least in my experience, a course in sex ed did find me via ways in which sex is supposed to be conveyed, on a purely, physical plane in which no particular adaptations or modifications were necessary. I mean, how else do people expect to learn these concepts, honestly? And Those weird, so-called anatomically correct googoo dolls they gave me in 6th grade were corny, beyond belief in fact. Besides, I know I only fully grasp concepts after seeing how it applies to my own experience. > In fact one thing I did learn from seeing the female googoo doll was that I don't need a fur burger. 'taught me about shaving. the20 AM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >> >> I do not think we can or should treat sex education different from any >> other type of education. If a person needs adaptations so that they can >> understand the concepts and any required assesmsnfs then that needs to take >> place in an qppeopraite way. >> >> David >> >> On Monday, July 16, 2012, Wasif, Zunaira >> wrote: >> > How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most >> > subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >> > special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way >> > you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on >> > the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >> > list. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> > >> > Hi all, >> > I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >> > just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >> > there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >> > about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >> > people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >> > I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >> > list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >> > here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >> > of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >> > beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >> > late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >> > nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >> > offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >> > the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >> > can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >> > this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >> > at least the age of consent. >> > I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >> > members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >> > there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >> > for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >> > reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >> > this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >> > feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >> > for those who really could use this information. >> > >> > On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >> >> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >> >> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >> >> Best, >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> >>> Ashley, >> >>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >> >>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >> >>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Sophie, >> >>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >> >>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >> >>>> supplements it. >> >>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >> >>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >> >>>> Guys you may want to skip the next parag -- ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu From iperrault at hotmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:14:59 2012 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:14:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Message-ID: Hi I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their employment training programs, or LWSB in general? I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an environment. Ian From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:20:34 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:20:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716105833.01cf0268@comcast.net> Message-ID: Kirt, I think the problem is that it's summer, and many students are getting antsy and bored as it goes slowly by. JMO, Jewel (who has no comment on the sex education topic since it's been covered plenty already) On 7/16/12, David Dodge wrote: > Carly, > Thanks for your message. I quite agree that in some or most circumstances > no adaptations would be needed. My point is that from a legal perspective > sex education shouldn't be treated differently than anything else. > > David > > On Monday, July 16, 2012, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Good afternoon, David, >> >> At least in my experience, a course in sex ed did find me via ways in > which sex is supposed to be conveyed, on a purely, physical plane in which > no particular adaptations or modifications were necessary. I mean, how else > do people expect to learn these concepts, honestly? And Those weird, > so-called anatomically correct googoo dolls they gave me in 6th grade were > corny, beyond belief in fact. Besides, I know I only fully grasp concepts > after seeing how it applies to my own experience. >> In fact one thing I did learn from seeing the female googoo doll was that > I don't need a fur burger. 'taught me about shaving. the20 AM 7/16/2012, > you wrote: >>> >>> I do not think we can or should treat sex education different from any >>> other type of education. If a person needs adaptations so that they can >>> understand the concepts and any required assesmsnfs then that needs to > take >>> place in an qppeopraite way. >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Monday, July 16, 2012, Wasif, Zunaira >>> wrote: >>> > How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most >>> > subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>> > special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same > way >>> > you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people > on >>> > the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>> > list. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This >>> > is >>> > just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>> > there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>> > about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>> > people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>> > I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>> > list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>> > here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>> > of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>> > beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>> > late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>> > nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>> > offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I >>> > hink >>> > the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>> > can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>> > this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, >>> > or >>> > at least the age of consent. >>> > I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>> > members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you >>> > feel, >>> > there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>> > for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>> > reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>> > this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>> > feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>> > for those who really could use this information. >>> > >>> > On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >> Hi all, >>> >> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >>> >> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >>> >> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >>> >> Best, >>> >> Arielle >>> >> >>> >> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> >>> Ashley, >>> >>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>> >>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>> >>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Sophie, >>> >>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>> >>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>> >>>> supplements it. >>> >>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>> >>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>> >>>> Guys you may want to skip the next parag > > -- > ---------------------------------- > David Dodge > Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson > English Major > University at Buffalo > 306 Clemens Hall > Buffalo, NY 14260 > daviddod at buffalo.edu > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 21:23:21 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:23:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> I'm not really sure I can agree with this. Be cutting all you want, but if it's that bad, you can easily unsubscribe. It's just a few clicks away. I don't want to push someone off, but if you're going to scream about wasting time while simultaneously contributing to the "circus," you might want to do some rethinking. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. This list does get insane, as do some of the topics. But you can either just make great use of the delete key, or unsubscribe; this honestly goes for all the lists I'm not on, just this one. I've yet to see one where there's 100% information and 0% trash. On another note, I am sort of confused as to the point of this topic. If you're going to bump uglies for the first time with someone, you should be comfortable with them enough to be able to tell them you are lost and let them help you. If you are both new to it, find someone you trust and ask questions, but figuring stuff out sort of adds a whole new level to the deal. Just inject some common sense in, as with anything and life is good. I'm really not understanding the point of an adapted cariculum. If you're taking the class and want to know something, you can easily ask whoever is teaching the class, or go up after if that's the case. If not, hell, use google, to ask your questions. On 7/16/2012 2:50 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear all, > Sometimes I think I should come back to this list and regularly > contribute...then I see the circus it so easily becomes. What I'm > about to say, I mean with as much respect as possible, but, honestly, > how do you people have the time for this? If we spent half the time > we do e-mailing looking for jobs, I bet that 70 percent unemployment > rate might be just a bit lower...something to think about? > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Carley, >> Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its not a >> separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? >> I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. We >> cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a >> book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would >> love to see the curriculum once developed. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >> >> I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an >> ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require >> some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one >> of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie >> toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's >> especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass >> of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than >> math or science or any thing else? Most >>> subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>> special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same way >>> you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people on >>> the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>> list. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >>> just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>> there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>> about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>> people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>> I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>> list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>> here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>> of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>> beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>> late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>> nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>> offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >>> the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>> can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>> this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >>> at least the age of consent. >>> I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>> members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >>> there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>> for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>> reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>> this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>> feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>> for those who really could use this information. >>> >>> On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >>>> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >>>> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>>>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>>>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>>>>> supplements it. >>>>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>>>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>>>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>>>>> >>>>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>>>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >>> its about. >>>>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>>>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>>>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>>>>> just how I don't understand. >>>>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>>>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>>>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >>>>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>>>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >>>>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>>>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>>>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>>>>> after they came out of the womb. >>>>>> I >>>>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>>>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>>>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>>>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>>>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>>>>> curriculum for sex ed. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>>>>> below: >>>>>> https://www.su >>>>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>> >> >>> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>> rthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 21:26:48 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:26:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50048718.2030209@tysdomain.com> You can just disable the synaptics touchpad in device manager, and just pick up an external USB mouse for the time when you need help and someone to click on something for you. I've always just disabled the mouse where I had a tendency to hit it and end up in the top/middle of the document. Something else you can do to maximize the battery life is to hit windows+p on windows seven, tab to projector only, hit space, then tab to keep changes and hit space. It redirects all your output to the VGA/HDMI port on the laptop, which means that the backlight on the screen does not have to be on. You can also create a different power plan and limit the maximum performance of your processor to like 50% and turn off a bunch of other stuff, you can do all that under power. If you go the projector route, you will need to remember that if you leave the laptop for a long time or you close it and open it again, the screen will activate again. On 7/16/2012 2:42 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > If you can find an HP that can have its mouse pad turned off totally, > my HP has all that. > I can last 4 hours with 10 windows open, along with Jaws. This is why > it still lives... > My dell just had some oddities with the drivers not matching up with > the hardware, but I loved my dell... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:49 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer > > Hi everyone. > > I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am > also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. > I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems > with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If > it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also > freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these > problems occured, but I definitely need something new. > > I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 > hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a > Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a > daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of > programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on > it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots > software. I would love something that can last me more than two > years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the > different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much > appreciated. Thanks. > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:44:54 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:44:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> <50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Tyler, There are one hundred messages here. I've written one. This list is a great resource, occasionally there's a diamond hidden in in the rough, so I stay on and read, time permitting. I just think it's unprofessional and, really not all that courteous, to repeat yourself twenty plus times on a list that is archived and read by who knows how many people. I mean, think about it, how many times have people just said the exact same thing on this thread, over and over again, using maybe different words but not saying anything new? I'm going to go; I've got work to do in this glass house and, really, I don't have time to throw any more stones. :) Best, Kirt On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I'm not really sure I can agree with this. Be cutting all you want, but > if it's that bad, you can easily unsubscribe. It's just a few clicks > away. I don't want to push someone off, but if you're going to scream > about wasting time while simultaneously contributing to the "circus," > you might want to do some rethinking. Those who live in glass houses > should not throw stones. > > This list does get insane, as do some of the topics. But you can either > just make great use of the delete key, or unsubscribe; this honestly > goes for all the lists I'm not on, just this one. I've yet to see one > where there's 100% information and 0% trash. > > On another note, I am sort of confused as to the point of this topic. If > you're going to bump uglies for the first time with someone, you should > be comfortable with them enough to be able to tell them you are lost and > let them help you. If you are both new to it, find someone you trust and > ask questions, but figuring stuff out sort of adds a whole new level to > the deal. Just inject some common sense in, as with anything and life is > good. > > I'm really not understanding the point of an adapted cariculum. If > you're taking the class and want to know something, you can easily ask > whoever is teaching the class, or go up after if that's the case. If > not, hell, use google, to ask your questions. > > On 7/16/2012 2:50 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear all, >> Sometimes I think I should come back to this list and regularly >> contribute...then I see the circus it so easily becomes. What I'm >> about to say, I mean with as much respect as possible, but, honestly, >> how do you people have the time for this? If we spent half the time >> we do e-mailing looking for jobs, I bet that 70 percent unemployment >> rate might be just a bit lower...something to think about? >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Carley, >>> Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its not >>> a >>> separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? >>> I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. >>> We >>> cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a >>> book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would >>> love to see the curriculum once developed. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an >>> ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require >>> some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one >>> of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie >>> toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's >>> especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass >>> of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than >>> math or science or any thing else? Most >>>> subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>>> special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same >>>> way >>>> you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people >>>> on >>>> the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >>>> just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>>> there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>>> about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>>> people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>>> I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>>> list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>>> here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>>> of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>>> beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>>> late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>>> nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>>> offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >>>> the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>>> can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>>> this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >>>> at least the age of consent. >>>> I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>>> members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >>>> there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>>> for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>>> reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>>> this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>>> feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>>> for those who really could use this information. >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >>>>> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >>>>> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>>>>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>>>>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>>>>>> supplements it. >>>>>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>>>>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>>>>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>>>>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >>>> its about. >>>>>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>>>>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>>>>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>>>>>> just how I don't understand. >>>>>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>>>>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>>>>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >>>>>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>>>>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >>>>>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>>>>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>>>>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>>>>>> after they came out of the womb. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>>>>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>>>>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>>>>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>>>>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>>>>>> curriculum for sex ed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>>>>>> below: >>>>>>> https://www.su >>>>>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>>> rthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>> fldoe.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:46:02 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:46:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: <50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> <50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Yes, I agree with that. Even if we're not talking about a separate curriculum, they still want to fix something that's not broken. Tactile diagrams would be helpful, but I did have access to them when I had sex ed. So it may be a generational thing, or a lack of resources in any particular school district. I also agree that when you're in a relationship, and the topic of sex comes up, you should be comfortable enough to talk to your partner about it. If you're not, you shouldn't be having sex in the first place. I know that's what everyone says, and people will have it even when they're not ready, but that's certainly not a problem limited to the blind. Plenty of sighted teenagers, and adults for that matter, do it too. They rush into relationships without thinking, don't discuss birth control options, are embarrassed about their bodies, etc. and that's just human nature, some people are more insecure and shy than others. Some were raised to believe that sex is dirty and sinful. Some just get lost in the heat of the moment or get drunk so thinking clearly is completely out of the picture. As I said before, I feel strongly that it's the general sex ed curriculum that needs an overhaul, not whether or not the blind are being disadvantaged in the classroom when it comes to those topics. When it comes down to it, depending on the teacher of any given subject, you can be disadvantaged in many ways and on many different subjects. On a final note, people who add fuel to the fire by complaining about topics they think aren't going anywhere make me laugh. You're just bumping the very topic you despise a little higher in your cue of messages. I've seen that done on message boards too, and it just makes me shake my head and wonder, why not just skip over the topic and be done with it? On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I'm not really sure I can agree with this. Be cutting all you want, but > if it's that bad, you can easily unsubscribe. It's just a few clicks > away. I don't want to push someone off, but if you're going to scream > about wasting time while simultaneously contributing to the "circus," > you might want to do some rethinking. Those who live in glass houses > should not throw stones. > > This list does get insane, as do some of the topics. But you can either > just make great use of the delete key, or unsubscribe; this honestly > goes for all the lists I'm not on, just this one. I've yet to see one > where there's 100% information and 0% trash. > > On another note, I am sort of confused as to the point of this topic. If > you're going to bump uglies for the first time with someone, you should > be comfortable with them enough to be able to tell them you are lost and > let them help you. If you are both new to it, find someone you trust and > ask questions, but figuring stuff out sort of adds a whole new level to > the deal. Just inject some common sense in, as with anything and life is > good. > > I'm really not understanding the point of an adapted cariculum. If > you're taking the class and want to know something, you can easily ask > whoever is teaching the class, or go up after if that's the case. If > not, hell, use google, to ask your questions. > > On 7/16/2012 2:50 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear all, >> Sometimes I think I should come back to this list and regularly >> contribute...then I see the circus it so easily becomes. What I'm >> about to say, I mean with as much respect as possible, but, honestly, >> how do you people have the time for this? If we spent half the time >> we do e-mailing looking for jobs, I bet that 70 percent unemployment >> rate might be just a bit lower...something to think about? >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Carley, >>> Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its not >>> a >>> separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? >>> I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. >>> We >>> cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a >>> book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would >>> love to see the curriculum once developed. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an >>> ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require >>> some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one >>> of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie >>> toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's >>> especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass >>> of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than >>> math or science or any thing else? Most >>>> subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>>> special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same >>>> way >>>> you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people >>>> on >>>> the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >>>> just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>>> there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>>> about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>>> people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>>> I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>>> list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>>> here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>>> of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>>> beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>>> late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>>> nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>>> offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >>>> the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>>> can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>>> this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >>>> at least the age of consent. >>>> I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>>> members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >>>> there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>>> for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>>> reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>>> this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>>> feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>>> for those who really could use this information. >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >>>>> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >>>>> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>>>>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>>>>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>>>>>> supplements it. >>>>>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>>>>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>>>>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>>>>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >>>> its about. >>>>>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>>>>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>>>>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>>>>>> just how I don't understand. >>>>>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>>>>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>>>>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >>>>>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>>>>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >>>>>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>>>>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>>>>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>>>>>> after they came out of the womb. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>>>>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>>>>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>>>>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>>>>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>>>>>> curriculum for sex ed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>>>>>> below: >>>>>>> https://www.su >>>>>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>>> rthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>> fldoe.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Jul 16 21:49:21 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of > their employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading > the manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured > environment, even though most of the participants are > adults. For instance, you have to sign out if you want to go > somewhere and things like that. Have any of you attended > LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as > independent of an environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:54:58 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:54:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: <50048718.2030209@tysdomain.com> References: <50048718.2030209@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: July, I have an asus. I don't remember the model number offhand but it's got 8 gb ram, the battery usually runs me about 6 hours, and it's one of the more portable laptops I've seen. (it's a full-fledged laptop, not a netbook) It's worked for me fairly well in the ten months I've had it. Best, Kirt On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > You can just disable the synaptics touchpad in device manager, and just > pick up an external USB mouse for the time when you need help and > someone to click on something for you. I've always just disabled the > mouse where I had a tendency to hit it and end up in the top/middle of > the document. Something else you can do to maximize the battery life is > to hit windows+p on windows seven, tab to projector only, hit space, > then tab to keep changes and hit space. It redirects all your output to > the VGA/HDMI port on the laptop, which means that the backlight on the > screen does not have to be on. You can also create a different power > plan and limit the maximum performance of your processor to like 50% and > turn off a bunch of other stuff, you can do all that under power. If you > go the projector route, you will need to remember that if you leave the > laptop for a long time or you close it and open it again, the screen > will activate again. > > On 7/16/2012 2:42 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> If you can find an HP that can have its mouse pad turned off totally, >> my HP has all that. >> I can last 4 hours with 10 windows open, along with Jaws. This is why >> it still lives... >> My dell just had some oddities with the drivers not matching up with >> the hardware, but I loved my dell... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:49 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer >> >> Hi everyone. >> >> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >> >> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >> appreciated. Thanks. >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Jul 16 21:45:24 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:45:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you want to get job training, it's okay, but if you need other skills, go to an NFB center. I must warn you, people from the other group may be there to recruit you. That happened to me, when I was there, in 2007. There are 100 some odd threads on LWSB, on this list. Thanks, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their employment > training programs, or LWSB in general? I’m looking into one of the IRS > programs, and was reading the manual, and it seems like a very strict and > structured environment, even though most of the participants are adults. For > instance, you have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like > that. Have any of you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences > were. Since I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of > an environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:57:23 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:57:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi, Does disabling hardware acceleration prevent Firefox from hogging so much ram? I'm using the latest version, and I find that the more time I spend using it, the more ram gets swallowed up. Sorry if I'm not doing a good job explaining it. I use Memturbo to keep track of how much ram is free, and I've discovered that Firefox takes up way more than IE does. Regarding Firefox and flash, I find that it crashes almost every time a page with a lot of flash content is loaded, unless I disable the quick time and Adobe plugins which are, as far as I know, the only flash plugins I have installed. So when I want to use Youtube or another site that's heavy on flash content, I do switch to IE. On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > There might be something worth trying, on the same note. If firefox lags > sometimes, just disable hardware accelleration (it's really cool, when > it actually works). it's under tools and options, and if I remember > correctly advanced. Just uncheck the box. > On 7/16/2012 12:59 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> If I can dig through the random commas, the point you're trying to >> make is that firefox and youtube don't work together. I'm not really >> sure where you get this from, but all you need is the adobe flash >> plugin, and youtube and firefox work great together. Any flash works >> great with firefox honestly, it's the same system as internet explorer >> uses, it just uses a different interface to link up with Firefox's >> plugin API. >> >> On 7/16/2012 12:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. >>> Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and >>> the easiest way, is through Youtube. >>> Youtube works better with IE. >>> I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer >>> freeze up! >>> Not cool! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >>>> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >>>> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >>>> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >>>> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >>>> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >>>> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >>>> attack surface. >>>> >>>> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >>>> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >>>> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >>>> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >>>> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >>>> HTH, >>>> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone. >>>>> >>>>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>>>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>>>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>>>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>>>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>>>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>>>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>>>> >>>>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>>>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>>>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>>>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>>>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>>>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>>>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>>>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>>>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>>>> appreciated. Thanks. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>> he that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 16 22:22:51 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:22:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5004943B.6000808@tysdomain.com> On 7/16/2012 3:57 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Does disabling hardware acceleration prevent Firefox from hogging so > much ram? I'm using the latest version, and I find that the more time > I spend using it, the more ram gets swallowed up. Sorry if I'm not > doing a good job explaining it. I use Memturbo to keep track of how > much ram is free, and I've discovered that Firefox takes up way more > than IE does. > Regarding Firefox and flash, I find that it crashes almost every time > a page with a lot of flash content is loaded, unless I disable the > quick time and Adobe plugins which are, as far as I know, the only > flash plugins I have installed. So when I want to use Youtube or > another site that's heavy on flash content, I do switch to IE. > > On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> There might be something worth trying, on the same note. If firefox lags >> sometimes, just disable hardware accelleration (it's really cool, when >> it actually works). it's under tools and options, and if I remember >> correctly advanced. Just uncheck the box. >> On 7/16/2012 12:59 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> If I can dig through the random commas, the point you're trying to >>> make is that firefox and youtube don't work together. I'm not really >>> sure where you get this from, but all you need is the adobe flash >>> plugin, and youtube and firefox work great together. Any flash works >>> great with firefox honestly, it's the same system as internet explorer >>> uses, it just uses a different interface to link up with Firefox's >>> plugin API. >>> >>> On 7/16/2012 12:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Firefox isn't very good, especially if you want to watch Youtube videos. >>>> Alot of music classes require that you listen to diferent pieces, and >>>> the easiest way, is through Youtube. >>>> Youtube works better with IE. >>>> I hate the fact, that when using Firefox, Youtube makes the computer >>>> freeze up! >>>> Not cool! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> First, I'll give you a bit of info on the viruses. The fact that your >>>>> computer is a dell has nothing to do with it getting viruses. It's what >>>>> you do, and how you do it. So, whatever system you get, get AVG and >>>>> Malwarebytes free, or if you don't want AVG get Microsoft Security >>>>> Essentials and let them go. Run Malwarebytes about once every week or >>>>> so. Also, I recommend using firefox instead of internet explorer. It's >>>>> still not 100% secure; no program is, but it offers a much smaller >>>>> attack surface. >>>>> >>>>> As for the computer, if you're willing to pay for a good system, Lenovo >>>>> has some amazing thinkpads, and you can get an extended battery. One of >>>>> my friends has one, and with the $100 extended battery you get like 20 >>>>> hours of battery life. I recommend getting something that is 8 gb (you >>>>> don't really need any more), and a 250+ gb harddrive should be great. >>>>> HTH, >>>>> On 7/16/2012 11:49 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>>> Hi everyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>>>>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>>>>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>>>>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>>>>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>>>>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>>>>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>>>>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>>>>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>>>>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>>>>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>>>>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>>>>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>>>>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>>>>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>>>>> appreciated. Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > Hello: I know previous versions of Firefox had memory issues, but the latest should not. I am using 13.0.1. Disabling hardware accelleration just prevents it from using your video card to render, which is really nice visually, but I've seen it cause problems with Jaws. -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 23:20:16 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 19:20:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] MDW Educational Science Laboratory Kit Message-ID: Dear list, I am trying to find where to purchase the laboartory kit from MWD EDucational Science. It would be a great addition to the NC Museum of Natural Science's laboratory area, and I'd like to see if it would help me in Biology as well. Does anyone know where to purchase the kit, or does anyone have suggestions for items to make up my own kit? I have a kitchen theromemter that will be useful for testing the temperatur of liquids, and funnels for pouring of course. Keep in mind this is a biology class, but it has chemistry components. Let's get creative! I'd love to hear about adaptations that you have experienced in making science accessible so you don't end up sitting at the computer typing up data every time...I don't want to be that type of lab partner...I want to do some of the actual work! Peace, Jewel From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 00:03:01 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:03:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: <50045A4E.9070002@tysdomain.com> <5004649E.1020606@tysdomain.com> <500465A2.9080104@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7582629204126238236@unknownmsgid> Joshua please read emails before asking useless questions. He told you how to disable hardware acceleration on his email. Why can't you just try and do it? From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 00:49:11 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:49:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <378FFDADB00F439AA2BEA08B725BC798@BrandonsLaptop2> I've not gone there, but as long as you aren't restricted on when you can go out, signing out isn't a big deal, but it's H E double hockey sticks if you have to tell people where you're going, get permission and give a firm time for when you'll be back... I would also avoid camps with long lecture times. I've found that long lectures on independence or job interviews are kind of contrary to what they're trying to teach... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ian Perrault Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Hi I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their employment training programs, or LWSB in general? I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an environment. Ian _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 00:53:37 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:53:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: <50048718.2030209@tysdomain.com> References: <50048718.2030209@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7238767B1C30487D823CE4D70FA2A3B0@BrandonsLaptop2> Wow, that is awesome! I've always wanted to know how to turn off the screen! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer You can just disable the synaptics touchpad in device manager, and just pick up an external USB mouse for the time when you need help and someone to click on something for you. I've always just disabled the mouse where I had a tendency to hit it and end up in the top/middle of the document. Something else you can do to maximize the battery life is to hit windows+p on windows seven, tab to projector only, hit space, then tab to keep changes and hit space. It redirects all your output to the VGA/HDMI port on the laptop, which means that the backlight on the screen does not have to be on. You can also create a different power plan and limit the maximum performance of your processor to like 50% and turn off a bunch of other stuff, you can do all that under power. If you go the projector route, you will need to remember that if you leave the laptop for a long time or you close it and open it again, the screen will activate again. On 7/16/2012 2:42 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > If you can find an HP that can have its mouse pad turned off totally, my > HP has all that. > I can last 4 hours with 10 windows open, along with Jaws. This is why it > still lives... > My dell just had some oddities with the drivers not matching up with the > hardware, but I loved my dell... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:49 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer > > Hi everyone. > > I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am > also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. > I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems > with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If > it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also > freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these > problems occured, but I definitely need something new. > > I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 > hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a > Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a > daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of > programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on > it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots > software. I would love something that can last me more than two > years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the > different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much > appreciated. Thanks. > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 01:00:06 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:00:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <378FFDADB00F439AA2BEA08B725BC798@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <378FFDADB00F439AA2BEA08B725BC798@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: LCB is the way to go! Plain and semple! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > I've not gone there, but as long as you aren't restricted on when you can go > > out, signing out isn't a big deal, but it's H E double hockey sticks if you > > have to tell people where you're going, get permission and give a firm time > > for when you'll be back... > I would also avoid camps with long lecture times. I've found that long > lectures on independence or job interviews are kind of contrary to what > they're trying to teach... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Perrault > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their employment > training programs, or LWSB in general? I’m looking into one of the IRS > programs, and was reading the manual, and it seems like a very strict and > structured environment, even though most of the participants are adults. For > > instance, you have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like > that. Have any of you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences > > were. Since I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of > > an environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 01:53:25 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:53:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com><1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC><7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid><2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net><25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC><50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Kirt and all, I believe we said a lot in the day and a half the thread was active because those contributing feel passionate one way or another. As for me, I know I missed out on some class instruction due to the visual stuff and as has been said by Brandon Keith Biggs and a few others, I don't see people showing love in public. Its true that it can be a deficite; I did not know what a french kis was til I asked a family member. I guess we were sharing our views and experiences . This list definitely does that. As someone who felt my knowledge was lacking partly because of lack of visual observation, I certainly wanted to put in my two cents. I think we all talked a lot because its summer and well just a hot issue. I hope you do not unsubscribe, Kirt. Honestly, I've enjoyed your comments when you do talk. Also, I' understand you may be annoyed by the traffic flow, but really, usually its not bad. I often get 15 or less messages a day. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 5:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum Tyler, There are one hundred messages here. I've written one. This list is a great resource, occasionally there's a diamond hidden in in the rough, so I stay on and read, time permitting. I just think it's unprofessional and, really not all that courteous, to repeat yourself twenty plus times on a list that is archived and read by who knows how many people. I mean, think about it, how many times have people just said the exact same thing on this thread, over and over again, using maybe different words but not saying anything new? I'm going to go; I've got work to do in this glass house and, really, I don't have time to throw any more stones. :) Best, Kirt On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I'm not really sure I can agree with this. Be cutting all you want, but > if it's that bad, you can easily unsubscribe. It's just a few clicks > away. I don't want to push someone off, but if you're going to scream > about wasting time while simultaneously contributing to the "circus," > you might want to do some rethinking. Those who live in glass houses > should not throw stones. > > This list does get insane, as do some of the topics. But you can either > just make great use of the delete key, or unsubscribe; this honestly > goes for all the lists I'm not on, just this one. I've yet to see one > where there's 100% information and 0% trash. > > On another note, I am sort of confused as to the point of this topic. If > you're going to bump uglies for the first time with someone, you should > be comfortable with them enough to be able to tell them you are lost and > let them help you. If you are both new to it, find someone you trust and > ask questions, but figuring stuff out sort of adds a whole new level to > the deal. Just inject some common sense in, as with anything and life is > good. > > I'm really not understanding the point of an adapted cariculum. If > you're taking the class and want to know something, you can easily ask > whoever is teaching the class, or go up after if that's the case. If > not, hell, use google, to ask your questions. > > On 7/16/2012 2:50 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear all, >> Sometimes I think I should come back to this list and regularly >> contribute...then I see the circus it so easily becomes. What I'm >> about to say, I mean with as much respect as possible, but, honestly, >> how do you people have the time for this? If we spent half the time >> we do e-mailing looking for jobs, I bet that 70 percent unemployment >> rate might be just a bit lower...something to think about? >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Carley, >>> Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its >>> not >>> a >>> separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? >>> I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. >>> We >>> cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think a >>> book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I would >>> love to see the curriculum once developed. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>> >>> I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an >>> ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require >>> some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one >>> of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie >>> toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's >>> especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass >>> of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than >>> math or science or any thing else? Most >>>> subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>>> special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same >>>> way >>>> you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people >>>> on >>>> the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is >>>> just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>>> there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>>> about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>>> people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>>> I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>>> list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>>> here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>>> of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>>> beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>>> late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>>> nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>>> offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink >>>> the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>>> can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>>> this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or >>>> at least the age of consent. >>>> I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>>> members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, >>>> there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>>> for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>>> reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>>> this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>>> feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>>> for those who really could use this information. >>>> >>>> On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >>>>> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >>>>> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>>>>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>>>>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>>>>>> supplements it. >>>>>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>>>>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>>>>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>>>>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >>>> its about. >>>>>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>>>>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>>>>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>>>>>> just how I don't understand. >>>>>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>>>>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>>>>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have the >>>>>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>>>>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She told >>>>>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>>>>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>>>>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>>>>>> after they came out of the womb. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>>>>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>>>>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>>>>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>>>>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>>>>>> curriculum for sex ed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the >>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>>>>>> below: >>>>>>> https://www.su >>>>>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>>> rthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>> fldoe.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 02:24:43 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 19:24:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay Message-ID: Hi all, Stephanie suggested I have others read it. So here it is: 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I think is the future of Librarianship. Thank you! Deb In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of information, it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent manner. Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my desire to become a library scientist. My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior high school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed at the sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. As a student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid and assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material shipped via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I realized that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library customer service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where a happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in college, I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so attracted to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to the end user. After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a filing system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings as necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required a separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included reference and research requests from member physicians and association staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and members. In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the library, including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici briefs, Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website accessible. These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly system. This led me to realize that information is useless unless made available to the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is only a small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio files are a few examples of the modalities that require professional organization. Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio books, which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books into different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, braille, and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, and electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog available to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio books with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the collection by genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user friendly to everyone. I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers pose specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. Most screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users often denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of the many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique needs groups. -- ** From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Tue Jul 17 02:31:07 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer Message-ID: <002b01cd63c4$39623650$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call us "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served me well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you know the clock is ticking and you want an information processing powerhouse it's time to shop for a new computer. Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most likely purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The "Brains" of my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My HP has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your primary operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't go wrong. A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. Peter Donahue “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” Isaiah 54:17 “While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day.” Anonymous From herrinar at muohio.edu Tue Jul 17 02:36:24 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:36:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their > employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, > and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even > though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to > sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of > you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an > environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > oo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From valandkayla at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 02:45:34 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:45:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: <002b01cd63c4$39623650$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <002b01cd63c4$39623650$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <38419B58-E2FB-4519-90B6-7E58A2029534@gmail.com> Netbooks aren't mac. :P perhapse you mean the macbook? haha, just giving ya a hard time. Good luck with your new computer. my last computer that was windows was an hp, and for as much as i had that thing on and running, i'm surprised it lasted for as long as it did. It still works, just haven't pulled it down from the closet now that i have my mac mini. On Jul 16, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good evening everyone, > > If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the > national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call us > "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served me > well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you know > the clock is ticking and you want an information processing powerhouse it's > time to shop for a new computer. > > Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my > turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most likely > purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The "Brains" of > my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My HP > has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your primary > operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't go wrong. > > A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an > iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. > > Peter Donahue > > “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” > Isaiah 54:17 > > “While for our princes they prepare > In caverns deep a burning snare, > He shot from heaven a piercing ray, > And the dark treachery brought to day.” > Anonymous > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 02:55:05 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:55:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> Message-ID: Oh no! Call the Arkansas State Police! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this > is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside > the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this > up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and > so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria > food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 03:06:30 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:06:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, my quick review: This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the library, including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other projects as assigned. That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word or 2. I would have put a description before material's. Projects as assigned? or assigned projects? Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. Presently, I am interning at SAAVI If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. By organizing, the collection by genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user friendly to everyone. This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less common. Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English needs another look. I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind and low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers pose specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. Most screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users *often denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of the many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these data available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique needs groups. Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most important sentence in the paper: As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would like to work in the academic world, What? Without awareness to these special needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique needs groups. many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay Hi all, Stephanie suggested I have others read it. So here it is: 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I think is the future of Librarianship. Thank you! Deb In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of information, it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent manner. Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my desire to become a library scientist. My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior high school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed at the sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. As a student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid and assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material shipped via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I realized that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library customer service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where a happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in college, I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so attracted to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to the end user. After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a filing system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings as necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required a separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included reference and research requests from member physicians and association staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and members. In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the library, including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici briefs, Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website accessible. These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly system. This led me to realize that information is useless unless made available to the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is only a small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio files are a few examples of the modalities that require professional organization. Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio books, which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books into different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, braille, and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, and electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog available to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio books with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the collection by genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user friendly to everyone. I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers pose specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. Most screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users often denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of the many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique needs groups. -- ** _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 03:22:20 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:22:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Message-ID: Hi all, I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. I will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other issue. So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your decision. BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me a call at 602-502-2255 There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone conversation will probably be more helpful than email. Best, Arielle From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 03:30:50 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:30:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: HI Brandon, Thank you for reading and critiquing. I am going to make the changes you suggested. Deb On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs < brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, my quick review: > This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: > > Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which > the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. > > It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. > > > In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the library, > including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, > labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > projects as assigned. > > That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word or 2. > I would have put a description before material's. Projects as assigned? or > assigned projects? > > > Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” > If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. > > > Presently, I am interning at SAAVI > If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. > > > By organizing, the collection by > genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > friendly to everyone. > > This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. > > > I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and > low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > > An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less common. > > Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English needs > another look. > > I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind and > > low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, > but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged > persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers pose > specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision > user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. Most > screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users *often > > denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of the > many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these data > > available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > needs > groups. > > Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most important > sentence in the paper: > > As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > like to work in the academic world, > > What? > > Without awareness to these special > needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > needs > groups. > > many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? > > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay > > > Hi all, > Stephanie suggested I have others read it. > So here it is: > 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I think > is the future of Librarianship. > Thank you! > Deb > > In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is > critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of information, > it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent manner. > Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which > the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. > My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my desire to > become a library scientist. > > > My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior high > school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed at the > sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. As a > student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid and > assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation > services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material > requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for > Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material shipped > via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I realized > that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library customer > service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting > fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where a > happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in college, > I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so attracted > to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to the end > user. > > > After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in > Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical > Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General > Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a filing > system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news > publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other > materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings as > necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required a > separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law > Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. > > > The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research > Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included > reference and research requests from member physicians and association > staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and members. > In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the library, > including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, > labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici briefs, > Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website accessible. > These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association > served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly system. > This led me to realize that information is useless unless made available to > the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is only a > small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio files > are a few examples of the modalities that require professional > organization. > > > Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for the > Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio books, > which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and > low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books into > different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, braille, > and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, and > electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog available > to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio books > with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the collection by > genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > friendly to everyone. > > > I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and > low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, > but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged > persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers pose > specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision > user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. Most > screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users often > denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of the > many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data > available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > needs > groups. > > > > > > -- ** > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 03:40:40 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:40:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Arielle! I was the one that asked about LCB. I had asked if anyone on here attended! I'm proud of you! What you've described is exactly what I'm looking for, in a center! Thanks, Joshua On 7/16/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a > center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have > heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as > what Amber related. I will, however, comment on the fact that WSB > apparently houses students in dormitories and does not give students > any opportunities to prepare their own meals or, presumably, to travel > very far between home and campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I > would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, but one of the biggest > differences I can see between good and bad training centers is whether > or not students live on or off campus. This is simply because, in my > experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a center > were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling on > my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, > you really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I > think dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to > learn from the experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at > LCB that I still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and > confidently cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I > practiced this a few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety > and confidence I acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came > from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to > and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. Similarly, many of us > decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking and cleaning > skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice those > things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but > instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when > you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a > regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign > in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on > their own--but that's a whole other issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to > consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major > factor in your decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about > LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you > can give me a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 03:42:44 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:42:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: References: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Also, on SAAVI, I'd put parinthesis, and what SAAVI stands for, (because I have never heard of it.) Thanks, Joshua On 7/16/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > HI Brandon, > Thank you for reading and critiquing. > I am going to make the changes you suggested. > Deb > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs < > brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello, my quick review: >> This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. >> >> It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. >> >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the >> library, >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other >> projects as assigned. >> >> That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word or 2. >> I would have put a description before material's. Projects as assigned? >> or >> assigned projects? >> >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” >> If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. >> >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI >> If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. >> >> >> By organizing, the collection by >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user >> friendly to everyone. >> >> This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less common. >> >> Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English needs >> another look. >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind and >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers >> pose >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. >> Most >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users *often >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of >> the >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these data >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique >> needs >> groups. >> >> Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most important >> sentence in the paper: >> >> As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would >> like to work in the academic world, >> >> What? >> >> Without awareness to these special >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique >> needs >> groups. >> >> many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay >> >> >> Hi all, >> Stephanie suggested I have others read it. >> So here it is: >> 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I >> think >> is the future of Librarianship. >> Thank you! >> Deb >> >> In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is >> critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of >> information, >> it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent manner. >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. >> My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my desire >> to >> become a library scientist. >> >> >> My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior >> high >> school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed at >> the >> sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. As a >> student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid >> and >> assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation >> services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material >> requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for >> Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material shipped >> via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I realized >> that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library customer >> service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting >> fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where a >> happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in >> college, >> I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so attracted >> to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to the >> end >> user. >> >> >> After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in >> Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical >> Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General >> Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a filing >> system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news >> publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other >> materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings as >> necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required a >> separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law >> Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. >> >> >> The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research >> Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included >> reference and research requests from member physicians and association >> staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and >> members. >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the >> library, >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other >> projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici briefs, >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website accessible. >> These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association >> served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly >> system. >> This led me to realize that information is useless unless made available >> to >> the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is only a >> small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio files >> are a few examples of the modalities that require professional >> organization. >> >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for the >> Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio books, >> which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and >> low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books into >> different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, braille, >> and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, and >> electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog available >> to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio >> books >> with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the collection >> by >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user >> friendly to everyone. >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers >> pose >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. >> Most >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users often >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of >> the >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special >> needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique >> needs >> groups. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- ** >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dwebster125 at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 03:43:16 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:43:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get arrested right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi all, I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. I will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other issue. So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your decision. BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me a call at 602-502-2255 There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone conversation will probably be more helpful than email. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t From dwebster125 at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 03:50:24 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webster) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:50:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> Message-ID: <000101cd63cf$4cfd2110$e6f76330$@net> hi Amber. I'm Dave. I'm from california and I went to wsb as well. I can defenitely agree with yo on the food. I can't even count how many times I got sick from that food. I mean full blown sick. I have bipolar and I don't know what it is about that building but for some reason it causes symptoms of depression. I guess because it is like a hospital in some ways. its an old building and going down some of the halls are just scary for me. Like I say I don't know what it is about that building but that building being inside of it really depresses me. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Oh no! Call the Arkansas State Police! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is > what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not > color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will > clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or > not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and > what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though > the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, > except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light > bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall > where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a > concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite > several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found > even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave > food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their > rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all > except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, > but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except > they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled > down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you > could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not > come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure > that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a > particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take > issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or > refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, > but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a > great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He > was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage > claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure > approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, > hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the > female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under > control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me > and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have > been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and > possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally > since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it > was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide > that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this > to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported > multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or > another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big > going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to > stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that > LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think > about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do > have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may > have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of > attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out > of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since > you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known > as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said > earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >> an environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >> h >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. > edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 03:52:20 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:52:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> Message-ID: Dave! Gunshots on campus? Hmmm! Sounds like my experience! That was back in 2007! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Dave Webster wrote: > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world > services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right > it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as > cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the > things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little > rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone > could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that > people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get > arrested > right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for > specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of > negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. > I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in > dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their > own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am > a > proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, > but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training > centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply > because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a > center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling > on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you > really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think > dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use > on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street > at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel > class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing > uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and > Mississippi > twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking > and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice > those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead > it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing > things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out > of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really > make > people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other > issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider > whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your > decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, > but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me > a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 04:07:10 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:07:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <000101cd63cf$4cfd2110$e6f76330$@net> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <000101cd63cf$4cfd2110$e6f76330$@net> Message-ID: No wonder they call it the "Braille Jail!" Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Dave Webster wrote: > hi Amber. I'm Dave. I'm from california and I went to wsb as well. > I can defenitely agree with yo on the food. I can't even count how many > times I got sick from that food. I mean full blown sick. I have bipolar > and I don't know what it is about that building but for some reason it > causes symptoms of depression. I guess because it is like a hospital in > some ways. its an old building and going down some of the halls are just > scary for me. Like I say I don't know what it is about that building but > that building being inside of it really depresses me. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Oh no! > Call the Arkansas State Police! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Ian, >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not >> color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very > reliable. >> >> The facts: >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >> but they do not work very well. >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except >> they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled >> down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you >> could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not >> come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >> that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a >> particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take >> issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or >> refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are > most comfortable for us. >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a >> great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, >> hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >> female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under >> control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me >> and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad > you're home!" >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even > acceptable regardless of setting. >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big >> going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >> could never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >> that I wish you all the best. >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out >> of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at > 45,000 or more. >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known >> as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >> director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said >> earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> Hi >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >>> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >>> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >>> an environment. >>> Ian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >>> h >>> oo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >> edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 04:12:06 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:12:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer Message-ID: <5004e621.8124320a.4601.ffff94c3@mx.google.com> I'm=20in=20the=20market=20for=20a=20Mac.=20=20I=20have=20a=20question=20abo= ut=20Macs.=20=20Is=20 there=20a=20word=20processor=20for=20Mac?=20=20Does=20it=20come=20with=20a= =20Microsoft=20 Word=20for=20Mac=20or=20something?=20=20I'm=20wondering=20because=20I=20nee= d=20a=20 computer=20for=20college=20and=20rehab=20will=20probably=20be=20buying=20it= =20when=20I=20 give=20them=20my=20two=20cents.=20...=20=20Anyway,=20that's=20all=20I=20hav= e=20to=20say. Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Peter=20Donahue"=20 There's=20one=20small=20edit=20you=20could=20make=20in=20your=20essay.=20=20= Take=20the=20 sentence=20where=20you=20said=20that=20document=20delivery=20services=20are= =20also=20 available=20to=20patrons/physicians=20etc=20etc.=20=20You=20could=20have=20= put=20that=20 sentence=20and=20the=20previous=20sentence=20together=20somehow.=20=20Other= =20than=20 that,=20no=20grammar=20errors.=20=20Youdid=20a=20great=20job=20on=20this=20= essay=20and=20I=20 wish=20you=20good=20luck=20in=20getting=20in=20to=20your=20grad=20school=20= thingy. Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Deb=20Mendelsohn=20 References: <5004e621.8124320a.4601.ffff94c3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab deals with macs…they don't in my state any way. Good Luck. On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: > I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... Anyway, that's all I have to say. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" To: Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Good evening everyone, > > If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the > national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call us > "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served me > well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you know > the clock is ticking and you want an information processing powerhouse it's > time to shop for a new computer. > > Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my > turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most likely > purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The "Brains" of > my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My HP > has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your primary > operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't go wrong. > > A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an > iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. > > Peter Donahue > > „No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.‰ > Isaiah 54:17 > > „While for our princes they prepare > In caverns deep a burning snare, > He shot from heaven a piercing ray, > And the dark treachery brought to day.‰ > Anonymous > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail..com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 04:33:34 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:33:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> Message-ID: <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> Amber, Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and 8pm. Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current college student or recent grad. If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their > employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, > and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even > though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to > sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of > you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an > environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > oo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 04:37:55 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:37:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that > LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this > is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside > the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this > up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and > so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria > food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 04:42:17 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:42:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> Message-ID: <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> Dave, Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to house a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive because the director should want students to get out and do their own thing. There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers more. Its nfb list after all. Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get arrested right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi all, I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. I will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other issue. So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your decision. BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me a call at 602-502-2255 There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone conversation will probably be more helpful than email. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 04:58:02 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:58:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> Joshua, Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do not have to stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their safety. So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and staying there. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that > LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted > to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 > and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you > need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors > to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color > those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not > you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has > colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except > this > is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) > inside > the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought > this > up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only > one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of > bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even > in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, > and > so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria > food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work > very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they > are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining > hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim > with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who > had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly > even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times > by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds > a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am > unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has > made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting > there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you > have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 04:59:21 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:59:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Also, the old director never enforced the rules. You can't smoke in your room. There was a musician that I befriended, who always smoked in his room. He got away with it! Another point I'll make, is that some of the instructors and staff were terrible! My computer instructor, (Sandy,) was rude, and disrespectful to my friend, and called him by his first name. It should've been "Mr Clark," (not Howard!) She's fifty something, and he's 70 something! Whatever happened to respecting elders? He was in the elder care program, after all! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Dave, > Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational > program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational > tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to house > > a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive > because the director should want students to get out and do their own > thing. > There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers more. > > Its nfb list after all. > Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world > services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right > it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as > cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the > things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little > rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone > could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that > people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get > arrested > right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for > specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of > negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. > I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in > dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their > own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am > a > proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, > but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training > centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply > because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a > center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling > on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you > really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think > dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use > on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street > at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel > class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing > uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and > Mississippi > twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking > and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice > those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead > it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing > things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out > of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really > make > people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other > issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider > whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your > decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, > but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me > a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 05:07:50 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:07:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> Message-ID: The good thing is, that people know more now, than they knew then! Thanks to these lists, all you need is a Google search! More people know what's going on, so they can speak up! Had I known about the LCB, long ago I would have spoken up! I'm glad I didn't stay there! My only problem, is that she's staying until Friday! If I were her, i'd take Megabus back to Ohio, and leave today! This is horible! She shouldn't have to endure 3 more days of this mess! JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are > attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do not > speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do not have to > > stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, that > doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their safety. > So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and > staying there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! > The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, > if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Amber, >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for >> someone >> who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in >> a >> training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account >> for >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where >> everyone >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your >> parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know >> where your son is; he may be on campus or not. >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted >> to. >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 >> and >> 8pm. >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish >> you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you >> need. >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current >> college student or recent grad. >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors >> to >> you. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what >> I >> have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color >> those >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that >> if >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not >> you >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has >> colored >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> The facts: >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except >> this >> is not an isolated incident.) >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) >> inside >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought >> this >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only >> one >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of >> bugs. >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even >> in >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, >> and >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria >> food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work >> very >> well. >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they >> are >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. >> So >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining >> hall >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that >> when >> in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even >> have >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but >> I >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great >> disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was >> picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim >> with >> a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who >> had >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >> been >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly >> even >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> what >> one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times >> by >> other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds >> >> a >> job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am >> unaware >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >> could >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >> that >> I wish you all the best. >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >> stay >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has >> made >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting >> there >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out >> policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy >> during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know >> different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and >> sighted has to do. >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you >> have >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied >> employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >> director >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I >> would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> Hi >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >>> environment. >>> Ian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> oo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 05:34:09 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 01:34:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Message-ID: <5004f975.032f650a.1802.066c@mx.google.com> On Sunday I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email. I have not received my confirmation email yet. Is there anyone I can email about this? I emailed Brian at the email address on the web but have not received a response. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 05:51:32 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:51:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections In-Reply-To: <5004f975.032f650a.1802.066c@mx.google.com> References: <5004f975.032f650a.1802.066c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Wow! It sounds like something's up! Hmmm! I'll check into it. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > On Sunday I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email. I > have not received my confirmation email yet. Is there anyone I > can email about this? I emailed Brian at the email address on the > web but have not received a response. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 06:15:45 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:15:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716095205.01e58930@comcast.net> <25C4CBE989D9426B9F1B0365AAD12F24@OwnerPC> <50048649.50101@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Ashley, I wasn't going to unsubscribe. As I said, there's quality stuff here, sometimes. I just ask, nicely, that we are mindful of each others' inboxes, not to mention the public listserve archive. I totally concur with Sean (it's rare that I totally concur with anyone, so kudos to you mr. President, :)), and I think there comes a point when private conversations straying too far off the original topic should be taken off-list. Brandon can write erotica for anyone who wants to read it, Joshua can lead a virtual e-mail camp meeting for anyone who wants to attend, everyone's happy. See? That, my friends, is the beauty of off-list e-mails. :) Warmest regards, Kirt On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kirt and all, > I believe we said a lot in the day and a half the thread was active because > > those contributing feel passionate one way or another. As for me, I know I > missed out on some class instruction due to the visual stuff and as has been > > said by Brandon Keith Biggs and a few others, I don't see people showing > love in public. Its true that it can be a deficite; I did not know what a > french kis was til I asked a family member. > I guess we were sharing our views and experiences . This list definitely > does that. As someone who felt my knowledge was lacking partly because of > lack of visual observation, I certainly wanted to put in my two cents. > > I think we all talked a lot because its summer and well just a hot issue. I > > hope you do not unsubscribe, Kirt. Honestly, I've enjoyed your comments when > > you do talk. Also, I' understand you may be annoyed by the traffic flow, but > > really, usually its not bad. I often get 15 or less messages a day. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 5:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > > Tyler, > There are one hundred messages here. I've written one. This list > is a great resource, occasionally there's a diamond hidden in in the > rough, so I stay on and read, time permitting. I just think it's > unprofessional and, really not all that courteous, to repeat yourself > twenty plus times on a list that is archived and read by who knows how > many people. I mean, think about it, how many times have people just > said the exact same thing on this thread, over and over again, using > maybe different words but not saying anything new? I'm going to go; > I've got work to do in this glass house and, really, I don't have time > to throw any more stones. :) > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/16/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> I'm not really sure I can agree with this. Be cutting all you want, but >> if it's that bad, you can easily unsubscribe. It's just a few clicks >> away. I don't want to push someone off, but if you're going to scream >> about wasting time while simultaneously contributing to the "circus," >> you might want to do some rethinking. Those who live in glass houses >> should not throw stones. >> >> This list does get insane, as do some of the topics. But you can either >> just make great use of the delete key, or unsubscribe; this honestly >> goes for all the lists I'm not on, just this one. I've yet to see one >> where there's 100% information and 0% trash. >> >> On another note, I am sort of confused as to the point of this topic. If >> you're going to bump uglies for the first time with someone, you should >> be comfortable with them enough to be able to tell them you are lost and >> let them help you. If you are both new to it, find someone you trust and >> ask questions, but figuring stuff out sort of adds a whole new level to >> the deal. Just inject some common sense in, as with anything and life is >> good. >> >> I'm really not understanding the point of an adapted cariculum. If >> you're taking the class and want to know something, you can easily ask >> whoever is teaching the class, or go up after if that's the case. If >> not, hell, use google, to ask your questions. >> >> On 7/16/2012 2:50 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> Sometimes I think I should come back to this list and regularly >>> contribute...then I see the circus it so easily becomes. What I'm >>> about to say, I mean with as much respect as possible, but, honestly, >>> how do you people have the time for this? If we spent half the time >>> we do e-mailing looking for jobs, I bet that 70 percent unemployment >>> rate might be just a bit lower...something to think about? >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Carley, >>>> Can you refrain from using bad language. Others have already said its >>>> not >>>> a >>>> separate curriculum. Did you all who complain take the survey? >>>> I did not yet. But due to the visual stuff about it, it’s a good idea. >>>> We >>>> cannot se it in movies, in magazines, or making out in public. I think >>>> a >>>> book about it and the reproductive system woule be real helpful. I >>>> would >>>> love to see the curriculum once developed. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>> >>>> I know. How is it that people, due to a coincidental absence of an >>>> ocular, input get off thinking themselves special that they require >>>> some overly adapted curriculum or equipment for participating in one >>>> of life's building blocks? I mean, how 'bout a special blinkie >>>> toilet? This is how a blind man wipes his ass, see look, it's >>>> especially adapted for the sightless among us, it's made for the ass >>>> of a blind man, nobody else can use it. How is sex ed different than >>>> math or science or any thing else? Most >>>>> subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a >>>>> special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same >>>>> way >>>>> you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people >>>>> on >>>>> the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This >>>>> is >>>>> just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that >>>>> there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked >>>>> about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up >>>>> people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? >>>>> I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a >>>>> list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people >>>>> here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some >>>>> of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably >>>>> beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little >>>>> late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this >>>>> nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't >>>>> offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I >>>>> hink >>>>> the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they >>>>> can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of >>>>> this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, >>>>> or >>>>> at least the age of consent. >>>>> I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain >>>>> members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you >>>>> feel, >>>>> there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those >>>>> for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are >>>>> reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading >>>>> this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but >>>>> feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it >>>>> for those who really could use this information. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy >>>>>> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, >>>>>> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you >>>>>>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sophie, >>>>>>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack >>>>>>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it >>>>>>>> supplements it. >>>>>>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model >>>>>>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. >>>>>>>> Guys you may want to skip the next paragraph. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For instance, My brother's wife just had a baby; having not seen or >>>>>>>> been explained what the birth process is, I don't have a clue what >>>>> its about. >>>>>>>> What are contractions? What is ambiotic fluid and what is its role >>>>>>>> in supporting the fetus? I still don't understand how a baby gets >>>>>>>> nurishment as its in the mother. I know from the mother's food, but >>>>>>>> just how I don't understand. >>>>>>>> They told me Steve, my brother, cut the umbilical cord. >>>>>>>> But where is that on the baby and mother? Kasey told me she started >>>>>>>> labour in the evening and went to the hospital; she did not have >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> baby til next afternoon! I asked her how she managed it; wasn't she >>>>>>>> tired? She informed me she slept a little during the night. She >>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>> me the baby's head came out first which was normal. I did not know >>>>>>>> this. I learned from her as I held my nephew that the head came out >>>>>>>> first and then the trunk and limbs. I learned that babies cried >>>>>>>> after they came out of the womb. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> learned that infants needed to get milk very often. I am hoping >>>>>>>> Kasey will tell me more about her pregnancy and the beginnings of >>>>>>>> it, AKA, the sex part sometime. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think I'll take that survey that started this. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:37 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave, I'm a little confused. I'm going into tenth grade, and I took >>>>>>>> a sex ed class in seventh grade. I found it to be very informative >>>>>>>> despite my blindness. I don't understand why we need a special >>>>>>>> curriculum for sex ed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:52:03 -0500 >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear NFB Member, >>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to >>>>>>>> help us with a current project. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us >>>>>>>> write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> area of sex education. Currently no curriculum exists for students >>>>>>>> with low vision and blindness that reflect current education >>>>>>>> standards. Young people, educators, and professionals have all >>>>>>>> indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum. >>>>>>>> We want your voice to impact our work! >>>>>>>> Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found >>>>>>>> below: >>>>>>>> https://www.su >>>>>>>> rveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> tps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and consideration of this project! >>>>>>>> Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> Mika Baugh >>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>> 200 East Wells Street >>>>>>>> at Jernigan Place >>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>>>>>>> P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371 >>>>>>>> E: mbaugh at nfb.org >>>>>>>> W: www.nfb.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea >>>>>>>> rthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >>>>> fldoe.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 06:38:51 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:38:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: References: <5004e621.8124320a.4601.ffff94c3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, Out here in Utah rehab's been known to buy macs if clients can plead a strong enough case to go that route instead of windows. I might switch over eventually but, I love jaws, and although I also love my iPhone, the learning curve to switch from jaws to voiceover, on a desktop or laptop, seems rather steep to me right now. Best, Kirt On 7/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab deals > with macs…they don't in my state any way. > > Good Luck. > On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: > >> I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a >> word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or >> something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and rehab >> will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... Anyway, >> that's all I have to say. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" > To: > Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer >> >> Good evening everyone, >> >> If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the >> national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call >> us >> "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served me >> well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you >> know >> the clock is ticking and you want an information processing powerhouse >> it's >> time to shop for a new computer. >> >> Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my >> turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most >> likely >> purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The "Brains" >> of >> my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My >> HP >> has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your primary >> operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't go >> wrong. >> >> A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an >> iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> „No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.‰ >> Isaiah 54:17 >> >> „While for our princes they prepare >> In caverns deep a burning snare, >> He shot from heaven a piercing ray, >> And the dark treachery brought to day.‰ >> Anonymous >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail..com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 06:43:37 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:43:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2C0ADD94C06243208588CBC8F9C1109D@BrandonsLaptop2> I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind people would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I was at a program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a guy found a dead body at a bus stop when I was there... Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with good public transportation, NOT LA! Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? That's what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living on my own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call me... In a new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so most of my outings will say something like "exploring" or "taking a walk." Of course if I'm staying any extended time at a place where my phone is going to be off for most of the time, I should let someone know where I am, but I go everywhere in my area and it would just become too much to tell someone where I am at all times. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Dave, Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to house a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive because the director should want students to get out and do their own thing. There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers more. Its nfb list after all. Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get arrested right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi all, I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. I will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other issue. So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your decision. BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me a call at 602-502-2255 There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone conversation will probably be more helpful than email. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 06:53:15 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:53:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: References: <5004e621.8124320a.4601.ffff94c3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55AEA45B-F434-47A1-84AB-29F7CCAFF6E2@gmail.com> Oh I'm sorry! I completely forgot to mention Textedit, which comes with the operating system. Actually that's what I use all the time, but I really don't do much word processing and don't need any advanced functions. On Jul 16, 2012, at 9:24 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab deals with macs…they don't in my state any way. > > Good Luck. > On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: > >> I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... Anyway, that's all I have to say. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" > To: > Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer >> >> Good evening everyone, >> >> If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the >> national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call us >> "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served me >> well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you know >> the clock is ticking and you want an information processing powerhouse it's >> time to shop for a new computer. >> >> Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my >> turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most likely >> purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The "Brains" of >> my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My HP >> has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your primary >> operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't go wrong. >> >> A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an >> iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> „No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.‰ >> Isaiah 54:17 >> >> „While for our princes they prepare >> In caverns deep a burning snare, >> He shot from heaven a piercing ray, >> And the dark treachery brought to day.‰ >> Anonymous >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail..com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 06:51:55 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:51:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: <5004e621.8124320a.4601.ffff94c3@mx.google.com> References: <5004e621.8124320a.4601.ffff94c3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Apple Pages works very well, and you can also use Nisus Writer. On Jul 16, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Beth wrote: > I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... Anyway, that's all I have to say. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" To: Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Good evening everyone, > > If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the > national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call us > "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served me > well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you know > the clock is ticking and you want an information processing powerhouse it's > time to shop for a new computer. > > Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my > turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most likely > purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The "Brains" of > my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My HP > has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your primary > operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't go wrong. > > A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an > iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. > > Peter Donahue > > „No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.‰ > Isaiah 54:17 > > „While for our princes they prepare > In caverns deep a burning snare, > He shot from heaven a piercing ray, > And the dark treachery brought to day.‰ > Anonymous > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail..com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 08:01:34 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 02:01:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer Message-ID: <50051be9.875f320a.0219.ffff9dcc@mx.google.com> Oh=20thanks,=20Ignasi.=20=20Any=20ideas=20for=20a=20strong=20way=20to=20ple= ad=20with=20 Rehab=20about=20this? Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Ignasi=20Cambra=20D=EDaz=20 Oh=20that's=20cool. Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Ignasi=20Cambra=20D=EDaz=20 What=20would=20be=20a=20good=20case=20to=20plead?=20I=20would=20want=20to=20= say=20that=20 Voiceover=20doesn't=20require=20a=20license=20key=20and=20all=20this=20mone= y=20to=20 update=20every=20two=20minutes.=20=20Well,=20maybe=20not=20every=20two=20mi= nutes,=20but=20 I=20want=20to=20know=20how=20I=20could=20plead=20a=20good=20case.=20=20It=20= is=20cheaper=20in=20 the=20long=20run=20to=20purchase=20a=20Mac=20rather=20than=20a=20Windows=20= PC.=20=20Plus=20I=20 could=20read=20the=20books=20I=20purchase=20on=20Itunes.=20=20I=20need=20he= lp=20 convincing=20rehab=20that=20a=20Mac=20is=20the=20way=20to=20go=20for=20me=20= and=20not=20the=20 overly=20expensive=20and=20money-hungry=20Windows=20PC.=20=20If=20you=20hav= e=20any=20 further=20ideas,=20just=20email=20me=20off=20list. Thanks. Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Kirt=20Manwaring=20=20wrote: =20Yes=20mac=20has=20a=20word=20processor=20called=20text=20edit.=20=20I=20= don't=20think=20 rehab=20deals =20with=20macs=E2=80=A6they=20don't=20in=20my=20state=20any=20way. =20Good=20Luck. =20On=20Jul=2016,=202012,=20at=2011:12=20PM,=20Beth=20wrote: =20I'm=20in=20the=20market=20for=20a=20Mac.=20=20I=20have=20a=20question=20= about=20Macs.=20=20Is=20 there=20a =20word=20processor=20for=20Mac?=20=20Does=20it=20come=20with=20a=20Microso= ft=20Word=20for=20 Mac=20or =20something?=20=20I'm=20wondering=20because=20I=20need=20a=20computer=20fo= r=20college=20 and=20rehab =20will=20probably=20be=20buying=20it=20when=20I=20give=20them=20my=20two=20= cents.=20...=20=20 Anyway, =20that's=20all=20I=20have=20to=20say. =20Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- =20From:=20"Peter=20Donahue"=20 References: Message-ID: If your computer got lots of viruses, it was not because it was a Dell but because your virus protection was inadequate, not working, not updated, or you were doing bad things that attracted viruses. A computer locking up can be a hardware problem, the fault of the Dell, or most likely a software problem. If you had lots of viruses, it is almost guaranteed that this is why it froze. I am not saying Dell is perfect, no computer is, but people need to separate apples from oranges when blaming something. Be sure you get a computer with enough memory and processor speed to do what you want, at least 4 gigabytes of memory, I would recommend. And ... it is going to be hard to find something with huge amounts of battery life, computers are not like Braille Notes or Pac Mates where you can get 30 hours of battery life. Dave At 12:49 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >Hi everyone. > >I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. > I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >problems occured, but I definitely need something new. > >I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >software. I would love something that can last me more than two >years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >appreciated. Thanks. From dandrews at visi.com Tue Jul 17 09:45:48 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 04:45:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections In-Reply-To: <5004f975.032f650a.1802.066c@mx.google.com> References: <5004f975.032f650a.1802.066c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I know that6 Brian is very busy so it may take him a few days to respond. Dave At 12:34 AM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >On Sunday I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email. I >have not received my confirmation email yet. Is there anyone I can >email about this? I emailed Brian at the email address on the web >but have not received a response. From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 12:27:22 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:27:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum In-Reply-To: References: <4fff0b56.1152650a.3c53.ffffb27f@mx.google.com> <1AE272111DF748BBA81FCA5D034F5F15@OwnerPC> <7400709623280130686@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B6F@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120716105833.01cf0268@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717052452.01c28bd0@comcast.net> Good morning, David, Yeah, I guess there could have been some undue, bombast at play just to say that, no adaptations need be made for such a basic, basic activity. 04 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >Carly, >Thanks for your message. I quite agree that in some or most circumstances >no adaptations would be needed. My point is that from a legal perspective >sex education shouldn't be treated differently than anything else. > >David > >On Monday, July 16, 2012, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > Good afternoon, David, > > > > At least in my experience, a course in sex ed did find me via ways in >which sex is supposed to be conveyed, on a purely, physical plane in which >no particular adaptations or modifications were necessary. I mean, how else >do people expect to learn these concepts, honestly? And Those weird, >so-called anatomically correct googoo dolls they gave me in 6th grade were >corny, beyond belief in fact. Besides, I know I only fully grasp concepts >after seeing how it applies to my own experience. > > In fact one thing I did learn from seeing the female googoo doll was that >I don't need a fur burger. 'taught me about shaving. the20 AM 7/16/2012, >you wrote: > >> > >> I do not think we can or should treat sex education different from any > >> other type of education. If a person needs adaptations so that they can > >> understand the concepts and any required assesmsnfs then that needs to >take > >> place in an qppeopraite way. > >> > >> David > >> > >> On Monday, July 16, 2012, Wasif, Zunaira > >> wrote: > >> > How is sex ed different than math or science or any thing else? Most > >> > subjects have a visual component. Does that mean that we need a > >> > special curriculum for every thing? You learn about sex in the same >way > >> > you learn about any other social interaction. Like some other people >on > >> > the list, I don't understand why this can't be discussed openly on the > >> > list. > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot > >> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:07 PM > >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum > >> > > >> > Hi all, > >> > I don't see why this discussion should be banned from the list. This is > >> > just my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that > >> > there is a lot of hesitation and outright disgust that's being talked > >> > about here. And, let's be honest, how are we ever going to clear up > >> > people's misconceptions if we don't talk about them? > >> > I think it's probably easier for people to discuss these matters on a > >> > list where they can be anonymous. Given the ages of some of the people > >> > here, I can see why there would be some embarrassment involved if some > >> > of you don't know what certain things are. I think it's probably > >> > beneficial at this point to try and help each other out. It's a little > >> > late for us to have better sex ed, so why not try to stop all this > >> > nervous tittering about terminology? The terms Brandon used weren't > >> > offensive. They were the anatomically correct terms. Plus, while I hink > >> > the examples he uses are slightly exaggerated, that's not to say they > >> > can never happen, and I think if we're going to have a discussion of > >> > this nature, we need to be up front about it. We're all adults here, or > >> > at least the age of consent. > >> > I'm not talking about some of the religious convictions that certain > >> > members have expressed. Those are personal, and if that's how you feel, > >> > there's nothing wrong with that. But please take a step outside those > >> > for a moment and think of how this discussion benefits others who are > >> > reading. I'll bet there are some people who are sitting here reading > >> > this, and have questions and concerns they would like to express, but > >> > feel they can't for whatever reason. I implore you all not to ruin it > >> > for those who really could use this information. > >> > > >> > On 7/12/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> >> Hi all, > >> >> Don't take this the wrong way, but if any of you have anatomy > >> >> questions, you can email me offlist at arielle71 at gmail.com Seriously, > >> >> I did learn a lot about this stuff in my biology classes. > >> >> Best, > >> >> Arielle > >> >> > >> >> On 7/12/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> >>> Ashley, > >> >>> I believe you didn't know about any of these things because you > >> >>> didn't inform yourself, not because you are blind... > >> >>> > >> >>> Sent from my iPhone > >> >>> > >> >>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Ashley Bramlett > >> >>> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> Sophie, > >> >>>> I, too, took a sex ed class and it was useful. But, we still lack > >> >>>> knowledge usually. I don't think this replaces school education, it > >> >>>> supplements it. > >> >>>> Having nonvisual access such as a description, diagrams, or model > >> >>>> would further aide in our understanding of such a matter. > >> >>>> Guys you may want to skip the next parag > >-- >---------------------------------- >David Dodge >Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >English Major >University at Buffalo >306 Clemens Hall >Buffalo, NY 14260 >daviddod at buffalo.edu >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Tue Jul 17 13:02:04 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:02:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC><02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B81@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I work in state rehab in Florida and we won't send anyone out of state for training. They have to attend local centers because the state doesn't want to pay for out of state training, unfortunately. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:08 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs The good thing is, that people know more now, than they knew then! Thanks to these lists, all you need is a Google search! More people know what's going on, so they can speak up! Had I known about the LCB, long ago I would have spoken up! I'm glad I didn't stay there! My only problem, is that she's staying until Friday! If I were her, i'd take Megabus back to Ohio, and leave today! This is horible! She shouldn't have to endure 3 more days of this mess! JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are > attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do > not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do > not have to > > stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, > that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their safety. > So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and > staying there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! > The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, > if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Amber, >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts >> in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for >> someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad >> rumors about it. >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB >> continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are >> in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to >> account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to >> know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never >> found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and >> them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on >> campus or not. >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As >> a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I >> wanted to. >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; >> between 7 and 8pm. >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I >> wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or >> whatever you need. >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a >> current college student or recent grad. >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more >> doors to you. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and >> not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be >> very reliable. >> >> The facts: >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >> but they do not work very well. >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but >> they probably come down to personal preference and really are just >> normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, >> except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >> scaled down hugely. >> So >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a >> dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at >> the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can >> argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular >> schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with >> the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our >> rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable >> for us. >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing >> a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my >> waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told >> the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it >> under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down >> at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're >> so glad you're home!" >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >> acceptable regardless of setting. >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds >> >> a >> job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am >> unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, >> I could never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please >> know that I wish you all the best. >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing >> out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >> 45,000 or more. >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now >> known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under >> the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >> As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind >> of decision. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM Hi I'm wondering if any of you >>> have attended LWSB for one of their employment training programs, or >>> LWSB in general? >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the >>> manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, >>> even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you >>> have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. >>> Have any of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>> experiences were. Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>> not as independent of an environment. >>> Ian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40y >>> ah >>> oo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >> .edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >> dents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 13:11:36 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:11:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <2C0ADD94C06243208588CBC8F9C1109D@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net><187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> <2C0ADD94C06243208588CBC8F9C1109D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <1B6ABE5C71D641AF8D9DE569DB662FA3@OwnerPC> Brandon, I'm not saying you let them know where you are; just signing in and out. They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. You may not know where you're going, good point. I agree about the transit thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save money by buying cheap land. Since training centers need to account for everyone , I can see why they due that. They might have a legal obligation to know if you are on or off property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to do with that. When we had a drill at college, they took attendance before everyone left. It was a community college though and may be less common at universities. It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students in the best situation, they would relocate to a safer area. But I can understand the sign out thing. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind people would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I was at a program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a guy found a dead body at a bus stop when I was there... Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with good public transportation, NOT LA! Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? That's what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living on my own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call me... In a new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so most of my outings will say something like "exploring" or "taking a walk." Of course if I'm staying any extended time at a place where my phone is going to be off for most of the time, I should let someone know where I am, but I go everywhere in my area and it would just become too much to tell someone where I am at all times. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Dave, Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to house a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive because the director should want students to get out and do their own thing. There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers more. Its nfb list after all. Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webster Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get arrested right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Hi all, I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. I will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other issue. So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your decision. BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me a call at 602-502-2255 There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone conversation will probably be more helpful than email. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From yasa.sylvia at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 13:20:01 2012 From: yasa.sylvia at gmail.com (Sylvia Yasa) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:20:01 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Message-ID: Please view the document I uploaded for you. Click here Just sign in with your email to view the document. Thank you. From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 13:18:51 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:18:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com><71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: <55397A22F3DE46DF830A98107B67A056@Gloria> Thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Hi Gloria and all, > I have had an Acer netbook since December 2009 and it works fine with > JAWS for the most part. It has started freezing every once in a while > after I installed Windows 7, but it's hard to know if that's a JAWS > issue or not, and it only happens every once in a while. If your > netbook is freezing a lot, before buying a new computer, it'd be worth > taking it to an IT center or computer repair shop to have it looked at > and see if there's something wrong with the software that's causing > the frequent freezing. It could very well be a simple issue that has > nothing to do with JAWS and can be fixed without buying a new > computer. Netbooks have several advantages, including longer battery > life and increased portability not to mention lower cost. My netbook > puts less strain on my back and shoulders than my laptop did and > that's why I continue to use it. I still have the old Dell laptop and > use it when I need more computing power, or when I prefer to use > Microsoft 2003 instead of 2010 for something, but I've found my > netbook works quite well overall. I wouldn't let fears about > processing power stop anyone from buying a netbook unless you plan to > play games or do something else that's beyond typical student computer > use. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/14/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Gloria, >> Any computer can freeze for many reasons. Your Acer probably froze >> because >> you did not have enough memory and jaws running coupled with other >> applications overwelmed it. Are you getting a laptop? I think any >> computer can be bulky. I'd guess a small laptop with a small screen >> would >> not be bulky. >> The best thing to do is to go to a store and handle them and see your >> options. Ask the salespeople how much they weigh if weight is a concern. >> >> Dell and HP both have their strong points. You definitely want one with a >> lot of memory and >> fast processing speed. I 7 is the fastest but for many people a 5 or 6 is >> good enough. >> I'd also buy a service contract for it if you can. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gloria G >> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:44 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> Hi, >> With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell >> before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as >> long >> as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by >> acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and >> serfing >> the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to >> someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know >> what >> to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and >> their capabilities. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >> >> >>> Hi the name here is jeff. >>> >>> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >>> put >>> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >>> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >>> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >>> >>> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >>> it. >>> >>>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is >>>>> no >>>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>>> wires. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>>> >>>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>>> the >>>>> software. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 13:18:15 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:18:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computers References: <0263267F150348CEB8C073A8FFD57662@Gloria><0222CE1E-35DF-472F-8316-5FC12420F46D@gmail.com><5912DF2412B545A38CC520DB0D0F7A2F@BrandonsLaptop2><55339.68.62.22.6.1342239673.squirrel@lavabit.com><71027CFA46E14A1EA079666D1B3B50DA@Gloria> Message-ID: Thanks I will keep this suggestion in mind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > Gloria, > Any computer can freeze for many reasons. Your Acer probably froze because > you did not have enough memory and jaws running coupled with other > applications overwelmed it. Are you getting a laptop? I think any > computer can be bulky. I'd guess a small laptop with a small screen would > not be bulky. > The best thing to do is to go to a store and handle them and see your > options. Ask the salespeople how much they weigh if weight is a concern. > > Dell and HP both have their strong points. You definitely want one with a > lot of memory and > fast processing speed. I 7 is the fastest but for many people a 5 or 6 is > good enough. > I'd also buy a service contract for it if you can. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > Hi, > With Dell does anyone know if the newer versions lighter? I had a dell > before and I felt it was bulky. I know this shouldn't matter to much as > long > as the computer does what I need it to do. I currently have a netbook by > acer and as I said before if I have JAWs running, my email open and > serfing > the web, my computer freezes and i am tired of that. I also talked to > someone about getting a Tashiba, and I am just confused and don't know > what > to get. I thank you all who have given your opinions about computers and > their capabilities. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers > > >> Hi the name here is jeff. >> >> I would say, dell, i have had bad very bad problems with tesheba, they >> put >> in a bunch of things that will kill the computer, my tesheba stayed at a >> constent temp of 170, and the hotest i ever got it was 225, which is 4 >> degrees then they can handle, that is my over view on tesheba. >> >> but dell would be the way to go, i have a dell now, and i don't regret >> it. >> >>> Would an index card over the mousepad help avoid accidental bumping? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:26 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Yes it does, don't get HP, I just got a new HP computer and there is no >>>> way to turn off the mouse pad. I've tried everything but cutting the >>>> wires. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >>>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:05 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computers >>>> >>>> I don't think the maker of the hardware changes the accessibility of >>>> the >>>> software. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Aleeha! >>>>> Welcome to the list! >>>>> I think Del works better with Jaws. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/13/12, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I would recommend a Toshiba laptop if you want just windows. They >>>>>> seem >>>>>> to >>>>>> have good batteries and don't seem to run as hot as some. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aleeha >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, "Gloria G" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am looking to purchase a new computer. I am a JAWs user and would >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> to get a computer that would allow me to run jaws and work on >>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>> things at once. Does anyone have any recommendations? >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffc4%40lavabit.com >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Find health%20insurance%20health >>> http://click.lavabit.com/skgq63abekj9i9eymoqz7xh38wmwjekcc3p4z5eq6rwxqrrcj7tb/ >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 14:02:35 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:02:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT References: Message-ID: Hi, What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > Please view the document I uploaded for you. > > Click here Just sign > in with your email to view the document. > > > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 14:37:31 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:37:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: <5004e61f.8124320a.4601.ffff94c1@mx.google.com> References: <5004e61f.8124320a.4601.ffff94c1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth I will combine them. Thank you. Deb On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Beth wrote: > There's one small edit you could make in your essay. Take the sentence > where you said that document delivery services are also available to > patrons/physicians etc etc. You could have put that sentence and the > previous sentence together somehow. Other than that, no grammar errors. > Youdid a great job on this essay and I wish you good luck in getting in to > your grad school thingy. > Beth > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deb Mendelsohn To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 19:24:43 -0700 > Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay > > Hi all, > Stephanie suggested I have others read it. > So here it is: > 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I think > is the future of Librarianship. > Thank you! > Deb > > In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is > critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of information, > it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent manner. > Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, which > the user must be able to choose which available format serve their needs. > My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my desire to > become a library scientist. > > > My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior high > school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed at the > sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. As a > student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid and > assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation > services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material > requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for > Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material shipped > via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I realized > that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library customer > service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting > fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where a > happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in college, > I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so attracted > to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to the end > user. > > > After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in > Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical > Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General > Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a filing > system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news > publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other > materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings as > necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required a > separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law > Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. > > > The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research > Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included > reference and research requests from member physicians and association > staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and members. > In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the library, > including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of $25,000, > labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici briefs, > Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website accessible. > These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association > served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly system. > This led me to realize that information is useless unless made available to > the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is only a > small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio files > are a few examples of the modalities that require professional > organization. > > > Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for the > Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio books, > which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and > low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books into > different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, braille, > and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, and > electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog available > to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio books > with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the collection by > genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > friendly to everyone. > > > I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and > low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, > but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged > persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers pose > specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low vision > user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. Most > screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users often > denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of the > many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data > available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > needs > groups. > > > > > > -- ** > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**thebluesisloo > se%40gmail..com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 14:40:46 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:40:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: References: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello Joshua SAAVI,(Southern AZ Association for the Visually Impaired). http://www.saavi.us/ Thank you for pointing this out! Deb On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Lester < jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > Also, on SAAVI, I'd put parinthesis, and what SAAVI stands for, > (because I have never heard of it.) > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > > HI Brandon, > > Thank you for reading and critiquing. > > I am going to make the changes you suggested. > > Deb > > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs < > > brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hello, my quick review: > >> This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: > >> > >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, > which > >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their > needs. > >> > >> It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. > >> > >> > >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the > >> library, > >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of > $25,000, > >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > >> projects as assigned. > >> > >> That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word or > 2. > >> I would have put a description before material's. Projects as assigned? > >> or > >> assigned projects? > >> > >> > >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” > >> If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. > >> > >> > >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI > >> If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. > >> > >> > >> By organizing, the collection by > >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > >> friendly to everyone. > >> > >> This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. > >> > >> > >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and > >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > >> > >> An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less common. > >> > >> Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English needs > >> another look. > >> > >> I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind and > >> > >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, > >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged > >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers > >> pose > >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low > vision > >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. > >> Most > >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users > *often > >> > >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of > >> the > >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these data > >> > >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > >> needs > >> groups. > >> > >> Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most important > >> sentence in the paper: > >> > >> As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > >> like to work in the academic world, > >> > >> What? > >> > >> Without awareness to these special > >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > >> needs > >> groups. > >> > >> many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay > >> > >> > >> Hi all, > >> Stephanie suggested I have others read it. > >> So here it is: > >> 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I > >> think > >> is the future of Librarianship. > >> Thank you! > >> Deb > >> > >> In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is > >> critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of > >> information, > >> it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent > manner. > >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, > which > >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their > needs. > >> My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my desire > >> to > >> become a library scientist. > >> > >> > >> My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior > >> high > >> school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed at > >> the > >> sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. As > a > >> student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid > >> and > >> assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation > >> services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material > >> requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for > >> Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material shipped > >> via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I realized > >> that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library customer > >> service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting > >> fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where a > >> happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in > >> college, > >> I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so > attracted > >> to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to the > >> end > >> user. > >> > >> > >> After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in > >> Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical > >> Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General > >> Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a filing > >> system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news > >> publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other > >> materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings as > >> necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required a > >> separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law > >> Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. > >> > >> > >> The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research > >> Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included > >> reference and research requests from member physicians and association > >> staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and > >> members. > >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the > >> library, > >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of > $25,000, > >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > >> projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici > briefs, > >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website > accessible. > >> These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association > >> served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly > >> system. > >> This led me to realize that information is useless unless made available > >> to > >> the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is only > a > >> small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio files > >> are a few examples of the modalities that require professional > >> organization. > >> > >> > >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for the > >> Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio books, > >> which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and > >> low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books into > >> different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, braille, > >> and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, > and > >> electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog > available > >> to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio > >> books > >> with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the collection > >> by > >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > >> friendly to everyone. > >> > >> > >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and > >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large print, > >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged > >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers > >> pose > >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low > vision > >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. > >> Most > >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users often > >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view of > >> the > >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data > >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > >> needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many unique > >> needs > >> groups. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- ** > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > >> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com< > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:02:58 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:02:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Message-ID: <50057eb9.e188ec0a.76ec.714a@mx.google.com> What if a client specifically asks to attend an out-of-state center like LCB or CCB? Can they do that if they don't get the money from state rehab? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wasif, Zunaira" wrote: Joshua, Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do not have to stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their safety. So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and staying there. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: Amber, Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and 8pm. Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current college student or recent grad. If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: From: Ian Perrault References: Message-ID: Gloria, it's spam! Nothing more, nothing less! Someone hacked her account. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Yasa" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > >> Please view the document I uploaded for you. >> >> Click here Just >> sign >> in with your email to view the document. >> >> >> Thank you. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 15:05:46 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:05:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: References: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I just figured that out! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Hello Joshua > SAAVI,(Southern AZ Association for the Visually Impaired). > http://www.saavi.us/ > Thank you for pointing this out! > Deb > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Lester < > jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > >> Also, on SAAVI, I'd put parinthesis, and what SAAVI stands for, >> (because I have never heard of it.) >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/16/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >> > HI Brandon, >> > Thank you for reading and critiquing. >> > I am going to make the changes you suggested. >> > Deb >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs < >> > brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hello, my quick review: >> >> This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: >> >> >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, >> which >> >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their >> needs. >> >> >> >> It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. >> >> >> >> >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the >> >> library, >> >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of >> $25,000, >> >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other >> >> projects as assigned. >> >> >> >> That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word or >> 2. >> >> I would have put a description before material's. Projects as >> >> assigned? >> >> or >> >> assigned projects? >> >> >> >> >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” >> >> If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. >> >> >> >> >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI >> >> If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. >> >> >> >> >> >> By organizing, the collection by >> >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user >> >> friendly to everyone. >> >> >> >> This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. >> >> >> >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> >> >> An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less common. >> >> >> >> Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English >> >> needs >> >> another look. >> >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind >> >> and >> >> >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large >> >> print, >> >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged >> >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers >> >> pose >> >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low >> vision >> >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. >> >> Most >> >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users >> *often >> >> >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I >> >> would >> >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure >> >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view >> >> of >> >> the >> >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these data >> >> >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special >> >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many >> >> unique >> >> needs >> >> groups. >> >> >> >> Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most >> >> important >> >> sentence in the paper: >> >> >> >> As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would >> >> like to work in the academic world, >> >> >> >> What? >> >> >> >> Without awareness to these special >> >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many >> >> unique >> >> needs >> >> groups. >> >> >> >> many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Stephanie suggested I have others read it. >> >> So here it is: >> >> 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I >> >> think >> >> is the future of Librarianship. >> >> Thank you! >> >> Deb >> >> >> >> In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is >> >> critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of >> >> information, >> >> it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent >> manner. >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, >> which >> >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their >> needs. >> >> My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my >> >> desire >> >> to >> >> become a library scientist. >> >> >> >> >> >> My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior >> >> high >> >> school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed >> >> at >> >> the >> >> sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. >> >> As >> a >> >> student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student aid >> >> and >> >> assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation >> >> services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material >> >> requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for >> >> Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material >> >> shipped >> >> via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I >> >> realized >> >> that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library >> >> customer >> >> service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting >> >> fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where >> >> a >> >> happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in >> >> college, >> >> I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so >> attracted >> >> to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to >> >> the >> >> end >> >> user. >> >> >> >> >> >> After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. in >> >> Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical >> >> Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General >> >> Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a >> >> filing >> >> system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news >> >> publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other >> >> materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings >> >> as >> >> necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required >> >> a >> >> separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law >> >> Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. >> >> >> >> >> >> The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research >> >> Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included >> >> reference and research requests from member physicians and association >> >> staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and >> >> members. >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the >> >> library, >> >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of >> $25,000, >> >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other >> >> projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici >> briefs, >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website >> accessible. >> >> These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association >> >> served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly >> >> system. >> >> This led me to realize that information is useless unless made >> >> available >> >> to >> >> the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is >> >> only >> a >> >> small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio >> >> files >> >> are a few examples of the modalities that require professional >> >> organization. >> >> >> >> >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for >> >> the >> >> Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio >> >> books, >> >> which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind and >> >> low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books >> >> into >> >> different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, >> >> braille, >> >> and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, >> and >> >> electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog >> available >> >> to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio >> >> books >> >> with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the >> >> collection >> >> by >> >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user >> >> friendly to everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind and >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large >> >> print, >> >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually challenged >> >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen readers >> >> pose >> >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low >> vision >> >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book cover. >> >> Most >> >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users >> >> often >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I >> >> would >> >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure >> >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view >> >> of >> >> the >> >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special >> >> needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many >> >> unique >> >> needs >> >> groups. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- ** >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com< >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com< >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 15:07:25 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:07:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <50057eb9.e188ec0a.76ec.714a@mx.google.com> References: <50057eb9.e188ec0a.76ec.714a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I hope so! Sounds like the state chapter of the NFB would have to provide a scholarship, which means alot of mumbo-jumbo to go through. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > What if a client specifically asks to attend an out-of-state > center like LCB or CCB? Can they do that if they don't get the > money from state rehab? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wasif, Zunaira" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:02:04 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training > Programs > > I work in state rehab in Florida and we won't send anyone out of > state > for training. They have to attend local centers because the > state > doesn't want to pay for out of state training, unfortunately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:08 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training > Programs > > The good thing is, that people know more now, than they knew > then! > Thanks to these lists, all you need is a Google search! > More people know what's going on, so they can speak up! > Had I known about the LCB, long ago I would have spoken up! > I'm glad I didn't stay there! > My only problem, is that she's staying until Friday! > If I were her, i'd take Megabus back to Ohio, and leave today! > This is horible! > She shouldn't have to endure 3 more days of this mess! > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they > are > attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if > clients do > not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they > certainly do > not have to > > stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun > shots, > that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their > safety. > So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep > going and > > staying there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training > Programs > > Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! > The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people > there, > if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your > efforts > in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good > job for > > someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad > rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB > continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. > You are > > in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need > to > account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need > to > know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never > found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family > calling and > > them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on > campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother > me. As > a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when > I > wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely > nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; > between 7 and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. > So I > wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or > whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a > current college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up > more > doors to you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training > Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here > is > what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts > and > not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I > will > clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to > whether or > not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I > would > have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that > matter, and > > what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not > be > very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go > missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just > one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and > though > the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention > this, > except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have > light > bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual > stall > where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up > as a > concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only > one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite > several complaints from many clients, the building is full of > bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were > found > even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not > leave > > food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them > etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their > rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at > all > except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically > exist, > but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, > but > they probably come down to personal preference and really are > just > normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college > dorm, > except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything > is > scaled down hugely. > So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a > dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to > meals at > > the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone > can > argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular > schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue > with > > the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in > our > rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most > comfortable > > for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect > anyone, > but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be > doing > a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. > He > was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the > baggage > > claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority > figure > approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my > waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and > told > the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he > "had it > under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked > down > at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! > We're > > so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should > have > > been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, > and > possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me > minimally > since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, > it > was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even > acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can > decide > that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did > this > to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been > reported > multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way > or > another, and still holds > > a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I > am > unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of > that, > I could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, > please > know that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training > Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there > on to > > stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is > that > LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would > think > about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They > do > have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that > there > > is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they > may > have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count > of > attendance, however, this is know different signing in and > signing > out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly > since > you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it > is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they > start at > 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now > known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes > under > the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is > now. > As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any > kind > of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > > From: Ian Perrault Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM Hi I'm wondering if any of > you > have attended LWSB for one of their employment training > programs, or > > LWSB in general? > I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the > manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured > environment, > even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, > you > have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like > that. > Have any of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your > experiences were. Since I've been to college, it sounds like > it's > not as independent of an environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40y > ah > oo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio > .edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0ear > thlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stu > dents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stud > ents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif > %40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:09:22 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:09:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Message-ID: <50058039.04f9640a.363e.5e6a@mx.google.com> How do people get hold of other people's email accounts? Are there any security measures we can take to prevent that from happening to our own accounts? ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Hi, What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" Just sign in with your email to view the document. Thank you. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:12:13 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:12:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. DEB On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > > Please view the document I uploaded for you. >> >> Click here > >> Just sign >> in with your email to view the document. >> >> >> Thank you. >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 15:16:16 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:16:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <50058039.04f9640a.363e.5e6a@mx.google.com> References: <50058039.04f9640a.363e.5e6a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Viruses can be stopped, by simply installing AVG, and other similar programs. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > How do people get hold of other people's email accounts? Are > there any security measures we can take to prevent that from > happening to our own accounts? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:04:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > Gloria, it's spam! > Nothing more, nothing less! > Someone hacked her account. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I > open it. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Yasa" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > > Please view the document I uploaded for you. > > Click here > Just > sign > in with your email to view the document. > > > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:18:04 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:18:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: References: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi Joshua, I'm sorry. Sometimes I assume way too much! Deb On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Joshua Lester < jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > I just figured that out! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > > Hello Joshua > > SAAVI,(Southern AZ Association for the Visually Impaired). > > http://www.saavi.us/ > > Thank you for pointing this out! > > Deb > > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Lester < > > jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > > > >> Also, on SAAVI, I'd put parinthesis, and what SAAVI stands for, > >> (because I have never heard of it.) > >> Thanks, Joshua > >> > >> On 7/16/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > >> > HI Brandon, > >> > Thank you for reading and critiquing. > >> > I am going to make the changes you suggested. > >> > Deb > >> > > >> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs < > >> > brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Hello, my quick review: > >> >> This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: > >> >> > >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, > >> which > >> >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their > >> needs. > >> >> > >> >> It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the > >> >> library, > >> >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of > >> $25,000, > >> >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > >> >> projects as assigned. > >> >> > >> >> That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word > or > >> 2. > >> >> I would have put a description before material's. Projects as > >> >> assigned? > >> >> or > >> >> assigned projects? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” > >> >> If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI > >> >> If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> By organizing, the collection by > >> >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > >> >> friendly to everyone. > >> >> > >> >> This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind > and > >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > >> >> > >> >> An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less common. > >> >> > >> >> Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English > >> >> needs > >> >> another look. > >> >> > >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind > >> >> and > >> >> > >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > >> >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large > >> >> print, > >> >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually > challenged > >> >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen > readers > >> >> pose > >> >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low > >> vision > >> >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book > cover. > >> >> Most > >> >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users > >> *often > >> >> > >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I > >> >> would > >> >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > >> >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view > >> >> of > >> >> the > >> >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these > data > >> >> > >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > >> >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many > >> >> unique > >> >> needs > >> >> groups. > >> >> > >> >> Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most > >> >> important > >> >> sentence in the paper: > >> >> > >> >> As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would > >> >> like to work in the academic world, > >> >> > >> >> What? > >> >> > >> >> Without awareness to these special > >> >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many > >> >> unique > >> >> needs > >> >> groups. > >> >> > >> >> many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? > >> >> > >> >> Thanks, > >> >> > >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Hi all, > >> >> Stephanie suggested I have others read it. > >> >> So here it is: > >> >> 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what I > >> >> think > >> >> is the future of Librarianship. > >> >> Thank you! > >> >> Deb > >> >> > >> >> In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology is > >> >> critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of > >> >> information, > >> >> it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent > >> manner. > >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, > >> which > >> >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their > >> needs. > >> >> My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my > >> >> desire > >> >> to > >> >> become a library scientist. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> My initial experience in the field of library science began in junior > >> >> high > >> >> school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was amazed > >> >> at > >> >> the > >> >> sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to find. > >> >> As > >> a > >> >> student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student > aid > >> >> and > >> >> assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation > >> >> services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material > >> >> requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for > >> >> Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material > >> >> shipped > >> >> via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I > >> >> realized > >> >> that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library > >> >> customer > >> >> service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and collecting > >> >> fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, where > >> >> a > >> >> happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in > >> >> college, > >> >> I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so > >> attracted > >> >> to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to > >> >> the > >> >> end > >> >> user. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. > in > >> >> Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical > >> >> Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the General > >> >> Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a > >> >> filing > >> >> system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA news > >> >> publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and other > >> >> materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject headings > >> >> as > >> >> necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which required > >> >> a > >> >> separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law > >> >> Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to Research > >> >> Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities included > >> >> reference and research requests from member physicians and > association > >> >> staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and > >> >> members. > >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the > >> >> library, > >> >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of > >> $25,000, > >> >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as other > >> >> projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici > >> briefs, > >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website > >> accessible. > >> >> These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the association > >> >> served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly > >> >> system. > >> >> This led me to realize that information is useless unless made > >> >> available > >> >> to > >> >> the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is > >> >> only > >> a > >> >> small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio > >> >> files > >> >> are a few examples of the modalities that require professional > >> >> organization. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association for > >> >> the > >> >> Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio > >> >> books, > >> >> which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind > and > >> >> low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books > >> >> into > >> >> different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, > >> >> braille, > >> >> and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large print, > >> and > >> >> electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog > >> available > >> >> to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the audio > >> >> books > >> >> with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the > >> >> collection > >> >> by > >> >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection user > >> >> friendly to everyone. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind > and > >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. > >> >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large > >> >> print, > >> >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually > challenged > >> >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen > readers > >> >> pose > >> >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low > >> vision > >> >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book > cover. > >> >> Most > >> >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users > >> >> often > >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I > >> >> would > >> >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to ensure > >> >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In view > >> >> of > >> >> the > >> >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these data > >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these special > >> >> needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many > >> >> unique > >> >> needs > >> >> groups. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- ** > >> >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > >> >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com< > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >> > > >> >> > >> >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > >> >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com< > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 15:18:11 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:18:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's what I was saying. Spam links like that shouldn't ever be opened. Someone hacked this lady's account! I hope she actually replys to these messages, and appologizes for this mess. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. > DEB > > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G wrote: > >> Hi, >> What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. >> Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> >> Please view the document I uploaded for you. >>> >>> Click here >>> > >>> Just sign >>> in with your email to view the document. >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 15:21:48 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:21:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay In-Reply-To: References: <11B2E4CDAD3C465AB4CA0F55B04236D2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: It's okay! I do the same thing, sometimes. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > Hi Joshua, > I'm sorry. Sometimes I assume way too much! > Deb > > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Joshua Lester < > jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > >> I just figured that out! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >> > Hello Joshua >> > SAAVI,(Southern AZ Association for the Visually Impaired). >> > http://www.saavi.us/ >> > Thank you for pointing this out! >> > Deb >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Lester < >> > jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: >> > >> >> Also, on SAAVI, I'd put parinthesis, and what SAAVI stands for, >> >> (because I have never heard of it.) >> >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/16/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >> >> > HI Brandon, >> >> > Thank you for reading and critiquing. >> >> > I am going to make the changes you suggested. >> >> > Deb >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs < >> >> > brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Hello, my quick review: >> >> >> This is confusing and doesn't flow very well: >> >> >> >> >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, >> >> which >> >> >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their >> >> needs. >> >> >> >> >> >> It sounds funny by saying organizations and which. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the >> >> >> library, >> >> >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of >> >> $25,000, >> >> >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as >> >> >> other >> >> >> projects as assigned. >> >> >> >> >> >> That's kind of a long sentence and the first line is missing a word >> or >> >> 2. >> >> >> I would have put a description before material's. Projects as >> >> >> assigned? >> >> >> or >> >> >> assigned projects? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” >> >> >> If it was me, I'd put an A before the quote. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI >> >> >> If there was no word limit, I'd put an intern. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> By organizing, the collection by >> >> >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection >> >> >> user >> >> >> friendly to everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> This needs to be rewritten and some commas taken out. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind >> and >> >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> >> >> >> >> An fascinating? Also, I'd change that which to something less >> >> >> common. >> >> >> >> >> >> Heh, the last paragraph... I'll put an asterisk where the English >> >> >> needs >> >> >> another look. >> >> >> >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be *an fascinating project because blind >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large >> >> >> print, >> >> >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually >> challenged >> >> >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen >> readers >> >> >> pose >> >> >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low >> >> vision >> >> >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book >> cover. >> >> >> Most >> >> >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users >> >> *often >> >> >> >> >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I >> >> >> would >> >> >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to >> >> >> ensure >> >> >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In >> >> >> view >> >> >> of >> >> >> the >> >> >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make *these >> data >> >> >> >> >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these >> >> >> special >> >> >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many >> >> >> unique >> >> >> needs >> >> >> groups. >> >> >> >> >> >> Lets see some more enthusiasm in this sentence, it's the most >> >> >> important >> >> >> sentence in the paper: >> >> >> >> >> >> As a librarian with my MLS degree, I would >> >> >> like to work in the academic world, >> >> >> >> >> >> What? >> >> >> >> >> >> Without awareness to these special >> >> >> needs, *we neglecting to communicate critical information to many >> >> >> unique >> >> >> needs >> >> >> groups. >> >> >> >> >> >> many people with unique needs? Or can it be more interesting? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:24 PM >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Essay >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> Stephanie suggested I have others read it. >> >> >> So here it is: >> >> >> 750-1000 words why I want MLs degree from University of AZ and what >> >> >> I >> >> >> think >> >> >> is the future of Librarianship. >> >> >> Thank you! >> >> >> Deb >> >> >> >> >> >> In today's fast-paced world, access to information and technology >> >> >> is >> >> >> critical. To apply and understand our current complex array of >> >> >> information, >> >> >> it must be organized, accessible, and presented in an intelligent >> >> manner. >> >> >> Furthermore, contemporary organizations have intellectual property, >> >> which >> >> >> the user must be able to choose which available format serve their >> >> needs. >> >> >> My previous work and educational experience have crystallized my >> >> >> desire >> >> >> to >> >> >> become a library scientist. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> My initial experience in the field of library science began in >> >> >> junior >> >> >> high >> >> >> school. I checked out books to both students and staff. I was >> >> >> amazed >> >> >> at >> >> >> the >> >> >> sheer number of books, yet they were all organized and easy to >> >> >> find. >> >> >> As >> >> a >> >> >> student at Northeastern Illinois University, I worked as a student >> aid >> >> >> and >> >> >> assisted in the library reserve, interlibrary loan, and circulation >> >> >> services. Specifically, I searched the shelves for the material >> >> >> requisitioned by the requesting library and packed the books for >> >> >> Inter-library loan delivery. I also checked in returned material >> >> >> shipped >> >> >> via interlibrary loan. While working at the circulation desk, I >> >> >> realized >> >> >> that circulation desk clerks are on the front lines of library >> >> >> customer >> >> >> service, servicing the patrons, checking in materials, and >> >> >> collecting >> >> >> fines. Fortifying Patron relationships at the circulation desk, >> >> >> where >> >> >> a >> >> >> happy patron is a returning patron. Through my work experience in >> >> >> college, >> >> >> I realized that I wanted to become a librarian because I was so >> >> attracted >> >> >> to the challenge of organizing information to make it accessible to >> >> >> the >> >> >> end >> >> >> user. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> After graduating from Northeastern Illinois University with my B.A. >> in >> >> >> Liberal Arts, I began my five-year career with the American Medical >> >> >> Association (AMA) as a project assistant in the Office of the >> >> >> General >> >> >> Counsel’s Information Center. As a project assistant, I created a >> >> >> filing >> >> >> system, or file bank, from a controlled vocabulary using the AMA >> >> >> news >> >> >> publication. After analyzing the printed articles, reports, and >> >> >> other >> >> >> materials to determine their subject matter, I added subject >> >> >> headings >> >> >> as >> >> >> necessary. Each attorney had his or her own specialty, which >> >> >> required >> >> >> a >> >> >> separate file bank. Attorneys from the Health Law and Corporate Law >> >> >> Divisions utilized the materials that I assisted in compiling. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The Vice President of the Health-Law Division promoted me to >> >> >> Research >> >> >> Assistant in 1997 within the department. My responsibilities >> >> >> included >> >> >> reference and research requests from member physicians and >> association >> >> >> staff. Document delivery services were also available to staff and >> >> >> members. >> >> >> In addition to these duties, I managed the daily activities of the >> >> >> library, >> >> >> including ordering materials, was responsible a yearly budget of >> >> $25,000, >> >> >> labeling, shelving, routing materials to attorneys, as well as >> >> >> other >> >> >> projects as assigned. One of my other projects was scanning amici >> >> briefs, >> >> >> Latin term meaning, “friend of the court” making them website >> >> accessible. >> >> >> These briefs were only available to AMA staff. Since the >> >> >> association >> >> >> served member physicians, this was not a particularly user-friendly >> >> >> system. >> >> >> This led me to realize that information is useless unless made >> >> >> available >> >> >> to >> >> >> the people who need it in a comprehensible format. Print format is >> >> >> only >> >> a >> >> >> small part of presenting information. Podcast, websites, and audio >> >> >> files >> >> >> are a few examples of the modalities that require professional >> >> >> organization. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Presently, I am interning at SAAVI (Southern Arizona Association >> >> >> for >> >> >> the >> >> >> Visually Impaired). I am involved in organizing the SAAVI’s audio >> >> >> books, >> >> >> which number over 1,500, into a system that is accessible to blind >> and >> >> >> low-vision users. This project consists of sorting the audio books >> >> >> into >> >> >> different media formats, such as compact disc (CD) or cassette, >> >> >> braille, >> >> >> and large-print labels. Then, I catalog them in braille, large >> >> >> print, >> >> and >> >> >> electronic format. An Access Database will serve as the catalog >> >> available >> >> >> to both clients and staff. The library at Saavi, will house the >> >> >> audio >> >> >> books >> >> >> with both braille and large-print signage. By organizing, the >> >> >> collection >> >> >> by >> >> >> genre and alphabetically by the author will make the collection >> >> >> user >> >> >> friendly to everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I find my work at SAAVI to be an fascinating project because blind >> and >> >> >> low-vision users are part of a community, which has unique needs. >> >> >> Information needs to be accessible, in not only braille and large >> >> >> print, >> >> >> but also in electronic format. Interestingly, many visually >> challenged >> >> >> persons utilize screen readers to access this material. Screen >> readers >> >> >> pose >> >> >> specific challenges for conveying information to the blind and low >> >> vision >> >> >> user, one of which is interpreting the images on the audio book >> cover. >> >> >> Most >> >> >> screen readers do not read pictures, graphs or charts. Blind users >> >> >> often >> >> >> denied access to these data. As a librarian with my MLS degree, I >> >> >> would >> >> >> like to work in the academic world, organizing information to >> >> >> ensure >> >> >> accessibility to special-interest groups, such as the blind. In >> >> >> view >> >> >> of >> >> >> the >> >> >> many limitations of technology, it is crucial that we make these >> >> >> data >> >> >> available in additional formats. Without awareness to these >> >> >> special >> >> >> needs, we neglecting to communicate critical information to many >> >> >> unique >> >> >> needs >> >> >> groups. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- ** >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >> >> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com< >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org< >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> >> >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com< >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> > for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Tue Jul 17 15:24:30 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:24:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long and checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims to serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At one time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and in the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address these issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to pay all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was there to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed to be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers are a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. Peter Donahue From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Amber, Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and 8pm. Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current college student or recent grad. If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their > employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, > and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even > though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to > sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of > you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an > environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > oo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:25:56 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:25:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <1B6ABE5C71D641AF8D9DE569DB662FA3@OwnerPC> References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> <2C0ADD94C06243208588CBC8F9C1109D@BrandonsLaptop2> <1B6ABE5C71D641AF8D9DE569DB662FA3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, I just graduated from a state training center which was, by most accounts (including mine), a pretty good one. We lived in apartments close (within walking distance) of our classes. No, we never had to sign out. When I wanted to go to Dennies at 2 AM (it happened sometimes...I was craving bacon!) I just took a cab and went. When I wanted to go to the mall or the movies or whatever, I just walked to the bus stop. As long as you were in class, and as long as you were out of each others' apartments past nine pm (I suppose every state agency has to have at least one silly rule thrown in for good measure), we were fine. No signing out necessary. Best, Kirt On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Brandon, > I'm not saying you let them know where you are; just signing in and out. > They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. > You may not know where you're going, good point. I agree about the transit > thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save money by buying cheap > land. > Since training centers need to account for everyone , I can see why they due > > that. They might have a legal obligation to know if you are on or off > property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to do with that. When we had > > a drill at college, they took attendance before everyone left. It was a > community college though and may be less common at universities. > > It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students in the best situation, > they would relocate to a safer area. > But I can understand the sign out thing. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind people > would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I was at a > program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a guy found a > dead body at a bus stop when I was there... > Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with good > public transportation, NOT LA! > > Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? > That's > what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living on > my > own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call me... In a > new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so most of my > outings > will say something like "exploring" or "taking a walk." Of course if I'm > staying any extended time at a place where my phone is going to be off for > most of the time, I should let someone know where I am, but I go everywhere > in my area and it would just become too much to tell someone where I am at > all times. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Dave, > Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational > program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational > tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to house > a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive > because the director should want students to get out and do their own > thing. > There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers > more. > Its nfb list after all. > Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world > services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right > it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as > cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the > things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little > rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone > could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that > people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get > arrested > right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for > specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of > negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. > I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in > dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their > own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am > a > proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, > but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training > centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply > because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a > center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling > on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you > really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think > dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use > on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street > at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel > class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing > uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and > Mississippi > twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking > and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice > those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead > it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing > things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out > of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really > make > people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other > issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider > whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your > decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, > but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me > a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 15:33:57 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:33:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <50058039.04f9640a.363e.5e6a@mx.google.com> References: <50058039.04f9640a.363e.5e6a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: sophie, run an anti virus program; about all you can do. -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT How do people get hold of other people's email accounts? Are there any security measures we can take to prevent that from happening to our own accounts? ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Hi, What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" Just sign in with your email to view the document. Thank you. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 15:35:04 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:35:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: <50058039.04f9640a.363e.5e6a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Joshua, it helps, but not all virus programs prevent all viruses. some viruses are powerful. having one and using it regularly is a good idea though. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Viruses can be stopped, by simply installing AVG, and other similar programs. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > How do people get hold of other people's email accounts? Are > there any security measures we can take to prevent that from > happening to our own accounts? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:04:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > Gloria, it's spam! > Nothing more, nothing less! > Someone hacked her account. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I > open it. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Yasa" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > > Please view the document I uploaded for you. > > Click here > Just > sign > in with your email to view the document. > > > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 17 15:50:00 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:50:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <500589A8.9070507@tysdomain.com> Dear god. someone sent out a link. Accept it, shut up, move on. She doesn't need to appologise for it, it happens to quite a lot of people. Sending 50000 messages complaining about it doesn't fix it. If someone knows this lady, just get in touch with her and solve the problem. On 7/17/2012 9:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > That's what I was saying. > Spam links like that shouldn't ever be opened. > Someone hacked this lady's account! > I hope she actually replys to these messages, and appologizes for this mess. > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >> DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. >> DEB >> >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. >>> Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >>> >>> >>> Please view the document I uploaded for you. >>>> Click here >>>> > >>>> Just sign >>>> in with your email to view the document. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >>> mendelsohn%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:50:59 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:50:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT References: Message-ID: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > Gloria, it's spam! > Nothing more, nothing less! > Someone hacked her account. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. >> Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sylvia Yasa" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> >>> Please view the document I uploaded for you. >>> >>> Click here Just >>> sign >>> in with your email to view the document. >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 15:55:12 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:55:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Message-ID: <50058af7.2192ec0a.1cbb.ffff9266@mx.google.com> I don't see what she has to apologize for. I mean, it's not like she went up to some hacker and asked, "Could you please hack my email account and send spam to everyone in my address book?" She might not even know her account's been hacked. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. DEB On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G wrote: Hi, What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: She has the skills to take care of herself. She needs job training. Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long and > checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims to > serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At one > time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies > Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind > director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning > practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and in > the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum > wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address these > issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be > pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to pay > all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. > > In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was there > to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the > Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a > number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed to > be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. > > Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but > vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's > hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers are > a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that > LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this > is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside > the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this > up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and > so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria > food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 16:12:22 2012 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:12:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all. Thanks for the recommendations... I just had a very very bad experience with my Dell... The viruses were only part of the problem, and yes, my antivirus software wasn't working well, and when I tried to put new software on the computer, it wouldn't let me. I also went through 2 batteries and 2 power chords trying (unsuccessfully) to get the thing to charge. I also had abnormal amounts of trouble connecting the computer to the internet. I had friends helping me fix this computer, and even the techiest ones could not handle it. So, no more Dell for me. Yes, some of the problems weren't due to the Dell because it was a Dell, but I decided after that horrible experience that I was done with Dell. So now looking forward... How large is an extended battery? Is that what you called it? Thanks for the memory advice. Four gigs of memory sounds good. I just want something with 5 hours or so of battery, and I don't know if that's possible out of the box. Thanks again. On 7/17/12, David Andrews wrote: > If your computer got lots of viruses, it was not because it was a > Dell but because your virus protection was inadequate, not working, > not updated, or you were doing bad things that attracted viruses. > > A computer locking up can be a hardware problem, the fault of the > Dell, or most likely a software problem. If you had lots of viruses, > it is almost guaranteed that this is why it froze. > > I am not saying Dell is perfect, no computer is, but people need to > separate apples from oranges when blaming something. > > Be sure you get a computer with enough memory and processor speed to > do what you want, at least 4 gigabytes of memory, I would > recommend. And ... it is going to be hard to find something with > huge amounts of battery life, computers are not like Braille Notes or > Pac Mates where you can get 30 hours of battery life. > > Dave > > At 12:49 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >>Hi everyone. >> >>I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >> >>I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>appreciated. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 17 16:20:16 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:20:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <500590C0.90906@tysdomain.com> hello: 4-8 should be great in terms of ram, and most processors now (unless you get something like a netbook) will be perfectly fine for you. Just get a duel core--there are quad cores, but unless you do a lot of intensive work that's multithreaded, it's only going to slow you down. Extended batteries aren't that big at all--usually when you buy a laptop you can just request a better battery, as well. I've also not had great luck with Dell, but I wanted to point out the viruses weren't Dell's fault particularly. I really like asus, Toshiba is awesome if you get their other repair warranty where they fix it in a different location (I had to send my laptop in 5 times, it went to that place and got fixed, the other place just screwed things up even more), and Lenovo is another good choice, though Lenovo is more higher end. Just ask for something between 4 and 8 gb, 250 gb hd and you'll be set. On 7/17/2012 10:12 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all. Thanks for the recommendations... > > I just had a very very bad experience with my Dell... The viruses > were only part of the problem, and yes, my antivirus software wasn't > working well, and when I tried to put new software on the computer, it > wouldn't let me. I also went through 2 batteries and 2 power chords > trying (unsuccessfully) to get the thing to charge. I also had > abnormal amounts of trouble connecting the computer to the internet. > I had friends helping me fix this computer, and even the techiest ones > could not handle it. > > So, no more Dell for me. Yes, some of the problems weren't due to the > Dell because it was a Dell, but I decided after that horrible > experience that I was done with Dell. So now looking forward... > > How large is an extended battery? Is that what you called it? Thanks > for the memory advice. Four gigs of memory sounds good. I just want > something with 5 hours or so of battery, and I don't know if that's > possible out of the box. Thanks again. > > On 7/17/12, David Andrews wrote: >> If your computer got lots of viruses, it was not because it was a >> Dell but because your virus protection was inadequate, not working, >> not updated, or you were doing bad things that attracted viruses. >> >> A computer locking up can be a hardware problem, the fault of the >> Dell, or most likely a software problem. If you had lots of viruses, >> it is almost guaranteed that this is why it froze. >> >> I am not saying Dell is perfect, no computer is, but people need to >> separate apples from oranges when blaming something. >> >> Be sure you get a computer with enough memory and processor speed to >> do what you want, at least 4 gigabytes of memory, I would >> recommend. And ... it is going to be hard to find something with >> huge amounts of battery life, computers are not like Braille Notes or >> Pac Mates where you can get 30 hours of battery life. >> >> Dave >> >> At 12:49 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >>> Hi everyone. >>> >>> I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>> also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >>> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>> with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>> it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>> freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>> problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >>> >>> I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>> hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>> Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>> daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>> programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>> it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>> software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>> years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>> different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>> appreciated. Thanks. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 17:06:43 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:06:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Julie Many laptops will do that. Mine does. But you have to pay for a higher quality laptop wich will have faster processing speed and go with at least 4 gb of memory. The battery will last for 8 or 9 hours. The store rep should be able to tell you how long each battery is approximately. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer Hi all. Thanks for the recommendations... I just had a very very bad experience with my Dell... The viruses were only part of the problem, and yes, my antivirus software wasn't working well, and when I tried to put new software on the computer, it wouldn't let me. I also went through 2 batteries and 2 power chords trying (unsuccessfully) to get the thing to charge. I also had abnormal amounts of trouble connecting the computer to the internet. I had friends helping me fix this computer, and even the techiest ones could not handle it. So, no more Dell for me. Yes, some of the problems weren't due to the Dell because it was a Dell, but I decided after that horrible experience that I was done with Dell. So now looking forward... How large is an extended battery? Is that what you called it? Thanks for the memory advice. Four gigs of memory sounds good. I just want something with 5 hours or so of battery, and I don't know if that's possible out of the box. Thanks again. On 7/17/12, David Andrews wrote: > If your computer got lots of viruses, it was not because it was a > Dell but because your virus protection was inadequate, not working, > not updated, or you were doing bad things that attracted viruses. > > A computer locking up can be a hardware problem, the fault of the > Dell, or most likely a software problem. If you had lots of viruses, > it is almost guaranteed that this is why it froze. > > I am not saying Dell is perfect, no computer is, but people need to > separate apples from oranges when blaming something. > > Be sure you get a computer with enough memory and processor speed to > do what you want, at least 4 gigabytes of memory, I would > recommend. And ... it is going to be hard to find something with > huge amounts of battery life, computers are not like Braille Notes or > Pac Mates where you can get 30 hours of battery life. > > Dave > > At 12:49 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote: >>Hi everyone. >> >>I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am >>also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. >> I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems >>with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If >>it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also >>freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these >>problems occured, but I definitely need something new. >> >>I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 >>hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a >>Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a >>daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of >>programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on >>it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots >>software. I would love something that can last me more than two >>years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the >>different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much >>appreciated. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 17:03:05 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:03:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <50058af7.2192ec0a.1cbb.ffff9266@mx.google.com> References: <50058af7.2192ec0a.1cbb.ffff9266@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <585A03A0B3414A1DADA610EAC1B4A370@OwnerPC> Sophie, right, it was a mistake. So don't click on the link and move on. I only click on links if I know where they will lead. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:55 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT I don't see what she has to apologize for. I mean, it's not like she went up to some hacker and asked, "Could you please hack my email account and send spam to everyone in my address book?" She might not even know her account's been hacked. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. DEB On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G wrote: Hi, What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC><001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <000f01cd643e$cff96370$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Joshua and everyone, Let' sleet her decide if she would benefit from a complete training program or not. All three NFB centers have employment-related assistance and offer training in several specific areas. Have you been to an NFB center yourself? Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs She has the skills to take care of herself. She needs job training. Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > and > checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims > to > serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At > one > time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies > Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind > director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning > practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and in > the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum > wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address these > issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be > pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to > pay > all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. > > In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > there > to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the > Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a > number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed > to > be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. > > Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but > vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's > hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers > are > a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that > LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted > to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 > and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you > need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors > to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color > those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not > you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has > colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except > this > is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) > inside > the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought > this > up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only > one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of > bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even > in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, > and > so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria > food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work > very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they > are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining > hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim > with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who > had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly > even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times > by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds > a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am > unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has > made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting > there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you > have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 17:08:19 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:08:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC><001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: No there is not. If you want to teach assistive tech, most people get a rehab teaching degree. You could also get some certification; I think there is one through Assistive technology institute. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:01 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs She has the skills to take care of herself. She needs job training. Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > and > checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims > to > serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At > one > time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies > Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind > director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning > practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and in > the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum > wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address these > issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be > pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to > pay > all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. > > In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > there > to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the > Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a > number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed > to > be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. > > Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but > vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's > hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers > are > a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that > LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted > to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 > and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you > need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors > to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color > those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not > you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has > colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except > this > is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) > inside > the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought > this > up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only > one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of > bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even > in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, > and > so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria > food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work > very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they > are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining > hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim > with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who > had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly > even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times > by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds > a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am > unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has > made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting > there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you > have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 17:25:36 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:25:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <000f01cd643e$cff96370$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000f01cd643e$cff96370$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: I'm going to attend LCB, after graduating from college. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Joshua and everyone, > > Let' sleet her decide if she would benefit from a complete training > program or not. All three NFB centers have employment-related assistance and > > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been to an NFB center > yourself? > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > She has the skills to take care of herself. > She needs job training. > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Good morning everyone, >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> and >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims >> >> to >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At >> one >> time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning >> practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and >> in >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address >> these >> issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to >> pay >> all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> there >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a >> number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed >> >> to >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. >> >> Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers >> are >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> >> Amber, >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for >> someone >> who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in >> a >> training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account >> for >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where >> everyone >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your >> parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know >> where your son is; he may be on campus or not. >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted >> to. >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 >> and >> 8pm. >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish >> you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you >> need. >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current >> college student or recent grad. >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors >> to >> you. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what >> I >> have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color >> those >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that >> if >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not >> you >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has >> colored >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> The facts: >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except >> this >> is not an isolated incident.) >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) >> inside >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought >> this >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only >> one >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of >> bugs. >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even >> in >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, >> and >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria >> food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work >> very >> well. >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they >> are >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. >> So >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining >> hall >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that >> when >> in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even >> have >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but >> I >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great >> disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was >> picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim >> with >> a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who >> had >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >> been >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly >> even >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> what >> one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times >> by >> other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds >> >> a >> job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am >> unaware >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >> could >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >> that >> I wish you all the best. >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >> stay >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has >> made >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting >> there >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out >> policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy >> during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know >> different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and >> sighted has to do. >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you >> have >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied >> employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >> director >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I >> would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> Hi >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >>> environment. >>> Ian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> oo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 17:26:32 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:26:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <585A03A0B3414A1DADA610EAC1B4A370@OwnerPC> References: <50058af7.2192ec0a.1cbb.ffff9266@mx.google.com> <585A03A0B3414A1DADA610EAC1B4A370@OwnerPC> Message-ID: If she is a real member on this list, she needs to acknowledge that her account was hacked. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Sophie, > right, it was a mistake. So don't click on the link and move on. I only > click on links if I know where they will lead. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > I don't see what she has to apologize for. I mean, it's not like > she went up to some hacker and asked, "Could you please hack my > email account and send spam to everyone in my address book?" She > might not even know her account's been hacked. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:18:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > That's what I was saying. > Spam links like that shouldn't ever be opened. > Someone hacked this lady's account! > I hope she actually replys to these messages, and appologizes for > this mess. > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. > DEB > > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G > wrote: > > Hi, > What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I > open it. > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" > To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > > Please view the document I uploaded for you. > > Click here > > uiadesantiago.cl/untitled/remax-by-mikel/ > Just sign > in with your email to view the document. > > > Thank you. > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org net.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > > gloria.graves%40gmail.com l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org net.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > > mendelsohn%40gmail.com fbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 17:42:52 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: <50058af7.2192ec0a.1cbb.ffff9266@mx.google.com> <585A03A0B3414A1DADA610EAC1B4A370@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <-1949934352130252659@unknownmsgid> Seriously... People should really find more productive ways to use their summer... Why in the world are you guys still talking about this? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 17, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > If she is a real member on this list, she needs to acknowledge that > her account was hacked. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Sophie, >> right, it was a mistake. So don't click on the link and move on. I only >> click on links if I know where they will lead. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:55 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> I don't see what she has to apologize for. I mean, it's not like >> she went up to some hacker and asked, "Could you please hack my >> email account and send spam to everyone in my address book?" She >> might not even know her account's been hacked. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:18:11 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> That's what I was saying. >> Spam links like that shouldn't ever be opened. >> Someone hacked this lady's account! >> I hope she actually replys to these messages, and appologizes for >> this mess. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >> DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. >> DEB >> >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G >> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I >> open it. >> Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" >> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> >> Please view the document I uploaded for you. >> >> Click here >> >> > uiadesantiago.cl/untitled/remax-by-mikel/ >> Just sign >> in with your email to view the document. >> >> >> Thank you. >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> net.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >> gloria.graves%40gmail.com> l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> net.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com> fbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 17:49:15 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:49:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Attending A Sumer Camp Message-ID: <5005a5c0.13fc640a.35bf.ffff9485@mx.google.com> Two years ago I attended a Summer program at the Lighthouse Of Central Florida. For two weeks we stayed overnight in apartments at the University Of Central Florida. The Lighthouse Of Central Florida is a wonderful training center here in Orlando. I thought I'd share this information with you. From dwebster125 at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 17:50:59 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:50:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> <2C0ADD94C06243208588CBC8F9C1109D@BrandonsLaptop2> <1B6ABE5C71D641AF8D9DE569DB662FA3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <006201cd6444$ba20d500$2e627f00$@net> I went to wsb in 08 when I first came out here to arkansas. I personally didn't heer any gun shots out there but I had heard about folks who had. One of the students who ad been there for close to a year said they had heard some. I was in the microsoft certification program and I had to leave because after 3 months of being there I crashed demotionally so I had to go to the hospital. I have bipolar and stress can cause symptoms. I live in a residential facility here in sherwood. I have tried to live on my own 3 different times and didn't do well on any of them. However, even though I live in this center I live in now they don't require a whole lot. We do have so sign out when we go places but that's simple enough so. I'm very independent but its hard to live on my own with bipolar. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Ashley, I just graduated from a state training center which was, by most accounts (including mine), a pretty good one. We lived in apartments close (within walking distance) of our classes. No, we never had to sign out. When I wanted to go to Dennies at 2 AM (it happened sometimes...I was craving bacon!) I just took a cab and went. When I wanted to go to the mall or the movies or whatever, I just walked to the bus stop. As long as you were in class, and as long as you were out of each others' apartments past nine pm (I suppose every state agency has to have at least one silly rule thrown in for good measure), we were fine. No signing out necessary. Best, Kirt On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Brandon, > I'm not saying you let them know where you are; just signing in and out. > They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. > You may not know where you're going, good point. I agree about the > transit thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save money by > buying cheap land. > Since training centers need to account for everyone , I can see why > they due > > that. They might have a legal obligation to know if you are on or off > property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to do with that. When > we had > > a drill at college, they took attendance before everyone left. It was > a community college though and may be less common at universities. > > It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students in the best > situation, they would relocate to a safer area. > But I can understand the sign out thing. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind > people would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I > was at a program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a > guy found a dead body at a bus stop when I was there... > Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with > good public transportation, NOT LA! > > Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? > That's > what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living > on my own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call > me... In a new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so > most of my outings will say something like "exploring" or "taking a > walk." Of course if I'm staying any extended time at a place where my > phone is going to be off for most of the time, I should let someone > know where I am, but I go everywhere in my area and it would just > become too much to tell someone where I am at all times. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Dave, > Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational > program or independent living? I've heard good things about the > vocational tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. > Its sad to house a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems > counter productive because the director should want students to get > out and do their own thing. > There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers > more. > Its nfb list after all. > Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions > world services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're > right it didn't give good training in personal management skills. > things such as cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that > great. One of the things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very > very bad area of Little rock. I would not want to go out on my own > especially at night. Noone could pay me enough money to do that. its > such a bad enough area that people have heard gun shots on campus. > People have seen others get arrested right there in front of the > school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a > center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have > heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. > I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students > in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare > their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and > campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers > for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between > good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or > off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of > what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus > by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the > commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the > most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style > accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I > still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently > cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a > few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I > acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to > cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB > from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual > cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can > really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but > instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when > you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a > regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign > in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on > their own--but that's a whole other issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to > consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major > factor in your decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about > LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you > can give me a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comc > ast.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t From dwebster125 at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 17:52:40 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:52:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <50057eb9.e188ec0a.76ec.714a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006301cd6444$f6565860$e3030920$@net> actually the little rock chapter of the nfb out here has their chapters meetings at wsb so. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs I hope so! Sounds like the state chapter of the NFB would have to provide a scholarship, which means alot of mumbo-jumbo to go through. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > What if a client specifically asks to attend an out-of-state center > like LCB or CCB? Can they do that if they don't get the money from > state rehab? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wasif, Zunaira" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:02:04 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > I work in state rehab in Florida and we won't send anyone out of state > for training. They have to attend local centers because the state > doesn't want to pay for out of state training, unfortunately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:08 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > The good thing is, that people know more now, than they knew then! > Thanks to these lists, all you need is a Google search! > More people know what's going on, so they can speak up! > Had I known about the LCB, long ago I would have spoken up! > I'm glad I didn't stay there! > My only problem, is that she's staying until Friday! > If I were her, i'd take Megabus back to Ohio, and leave today! > This is horible! > She shouldn't have to endure 3 more days of this mess! > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are > attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do > not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do > not have to > > stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, > that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their > safety. > So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going > and > > staying there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! > The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, > if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts > in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for > > someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad > rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB > continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. > You are > > in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to > account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to > know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never > found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and > > them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on > campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As > a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I > wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; > between 7 and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. > So I > wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or > whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a > current college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more > doors to you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is > what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and > not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will > clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or > not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and > > what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be > very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though > the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, > except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light > bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall > where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a > concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite > several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found > even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave > > food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them > etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their > rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all > except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, > but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but > they probably come down to personal preference and really are just > normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, > except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is > scaled down hugely. > So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a > dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at > > the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can > argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular > schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with > > the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our > rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable > > for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, > but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing > a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. > He > was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage > > claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure > approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my > waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told > the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it > under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down > at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! > We're > > so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have > > been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and > possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally > since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it > was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even > acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide > that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this > to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported > multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or > another, and still holds > > a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am > unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, > I could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please > know that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to > > stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that > LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think > about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do > have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there > > is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may > have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of > attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing > out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since > you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at > 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now > known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under > the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. > As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind > of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > > From: Ian Perrault Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM Hi I'm wondering if any of you > have attended LWSB for one of their employment training programs, or > > LWSB in general? > I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the > manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, > even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you > have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. > Have any of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your > experiences were. Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not > as independent of an environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40y > ah > oo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40mu > ohio > .edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0ear > thlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stu > dents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0stud > ents.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif > %40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 17:57:23 2012 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:57:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B81@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B81@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: I am surprised that nobody has questioned Zunaira's statement that Florida will not send clients out of state for training. I have read several times on this list that states must send clients to the center of their choice provided they present reasonable justification for why out of state training would benefit them over a local training center. Brice On 7/17/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > I work in state rehab in Florida and we won't send anyone out of state > for training. They have to attend local centers because the state > doesn't want to pay for out of state training, unfortunately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:08 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > The good thing is, that people know more now, than they knew then! > Thanks to these lists, all you need is a Google search! > More people know what's going on, so they can speak up! > Had I known about the LCB, long ago I would have spoken up! > I'm glad I didn't stay there! > My only problem, is that she's staying until Friday! > If I were her, i'd take Megabus back to Ohio, and leave today! > This is horible! > She shouldn't have to endure 3 more days of this mess! > JMHO! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are >> attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do >> not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do >> not have to >> >> stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, >> that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their > safety. >> So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and > >> staying there. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! >> The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, >> if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Amber, >>> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts >>> in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for > >>> someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad >>> rumors about it. >>> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB >>> continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. >>> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? >>> >>> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are > >>> in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to >>> account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to >>> know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never >>> found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and > >>> them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on >>> campus or not. >>> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As >>> a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. >>> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I >>> wanted to. >>> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. >>> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; >>> between 7 and 8pm. >>> >>> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I >>> wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or >>> whatever you need. >>> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a >>> current college student or recent grad. >>> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more >>> doors to you. >>> >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> Ian, >>> >>> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >>> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and >>> not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >>> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >>> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >>> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and > >>> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be >>> very reliable. >>> >>> The facts: >>> >>> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >>> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >>> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >>> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >>> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >>> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >>> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >>> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >>> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >>> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >>> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >>> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave > >>> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >>> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >>> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >>> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >>> but they do not work very well. >>> >>> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but >>> they probably come down to personal preference and really are just >>> normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, >>> except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>> scaled down hugely. >>> So >>> while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a >>> dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at > >>> the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can >>> argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular >>> schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with > >>> the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our >>> rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable > >>> for us. >>> >>> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >>> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing >>> a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >>> >>> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >>> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage > >>> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >>> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>> waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told >>> the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it >>> under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down >>> at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're > >>> so glad you're home!" >>> >>> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have > >>> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >>> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >>> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >>> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >>> acceptable regardless of setting. >>> >>> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >>> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >>> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >>> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >>> another, and still holds >>> >>> a >>> job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am >>> unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> >>> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, >>> I could never suggest that someone attend here. >>> >>> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please >>> know that I wish you all the best. >>> >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> Ian, >>> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to > >>> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >>> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >>> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >>> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there > >>> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >>> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >>> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing >>> out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >>> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >>> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >>> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >>> 45,000 or more. >>> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now >>> known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under >>> the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>> As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind >>> of decision. >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >>> >>>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM Hi I'm wondering if any of you >>>> have attended LWSB for one of their employment training programs, or > >>>> LWSB in general? >>>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the >>>> manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, >>>> even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you >>>> have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. >>>> Have any of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>>> not as independent of an environment. >>>> Ian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40y >>>> ah >>>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >>> .edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >>> thlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >>> dents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart >> hlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 18:03:36 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:03:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Attending A Sumer Camp Message-ID: <5005a90f.2706650a.082c.ffff96e8@mx.google.com> That's great. The lighthouse in Louisiana doesn't sound nearly as good. I attended a summer camp there last year. It was not an overnight camp, and it focused mainly on recreational activities. Even the daily living skills activities were not that informative. The sighted volunteers did most of the work (e.g., taking things on and off stoves, in and out of ovens, and serving the food) while we did the simple tasks like cutting and stirring. However, centers like this that don't offer complete training serve a purpose. For blind people not functioning at full capacity, these types of centers can offer them opportunities to learn the simple skills they need. Best, Sophie ----- Original Message ----- From: Roanna Baccchus References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <006401cd6447$129e1ce0$37da56a0$@net> Hi amber. I noticed you had some contact info at the end of your message such as email mobile phone and things like that. would it e all right if I perhaps called you and I could tell you about what it was like at lcb? Let me know. thanks. You if you want can also tell me about your experience at wsb as well. let me know thanks. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Joshua, Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do not have to stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their safety. So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and staying there. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts > in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for > someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB > continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are > in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to > account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to > know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never > found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and > them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I > wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between > 7 and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I > wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or > whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a > current college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more > doors to you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is > what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not > color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will > clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or > not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and > what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be > very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though > the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, > except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light > bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall > where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a > concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite > several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found > even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave > food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their > rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all > except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, > but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except > they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled > down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you > could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not > come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure > that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a > particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take > issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or > refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that > are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, > but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a > great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He > was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage > claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure > approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, > hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the > female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under > control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me > and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so > glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have > been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and > possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally > since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it > was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even > acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide > that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this > to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported > multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or > another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big > going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to > stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that > LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think > about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do > have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may > have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of > attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out > of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since > you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at > 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known > as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said > earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of > decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >> an environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >> h >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. > edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t From dwebster125 at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 18:09:28 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webster) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:09:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: References: <000001cd63ce$4d49fe00$e7ddfa00$@net> <187F507867B9444FAC455BB175ABBE7C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <006501cd6447$4f3bd7f0$edb387d0$@net> Oh yea I know Sandy. she actually taught typing. She I think has been there for a really long time. She's nice you just have to get use to her. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Also, the old director never enforced the rules. You can't smoke in your room. There was a musician that I befriended, who always smoked in his room. He got away with it! Another point I'll make, is that some of the instructors and staff were terrible! My computer instructor, (Sandy,) was rude, and disrespectful to my friend, and called him by his first name. It should've been "Mr Clark," (not Howard!) She's fifty something, and he's 70 something! Whatever happened to respecting elders? He was in the elder care program, after all! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Dave, > Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational > program or independent living? I've heard good things about the > vocational tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. > Its sad to house > > a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive > because the director should want students to get out and do their own > thing. > There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers more. > > Its nfb list after all. > Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions > world services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're > right it didn't give good training in personal management skills. > things such as cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that > great. One of the things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very > very bad area of Little rock. I would not want to go out on my own > especially at night. Noone could pay me enough money to do that. its > such a bad enough area that people have heard gun shots on campus. > People have seen others get arrested right there in front of the > school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a > center for specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have > heard lots of negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. > I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students > in dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare > their own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and > campus. I am a proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers > for many reasons, but one of the biggest differences I can see between > good and bad training centers is whether or not students live on or > off campus. This is simply because, in my experience, at least half of > what I gained from attending a center were things I learned off campus > by cooking, cleaning and traveling on my own. When you make the > commitment to go to a residential center, you really need to get the > most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think dorm-style > accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I > still use on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently > cross the street at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a > few times in travel class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I > acquired in crossing uncontrolled intersections came from needing to > cross Bonner and Mississippi twice each day to get to and from the LCB > from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual > cooking and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can > really practice those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but > instead it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when > you are doing things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a > regular basis and out of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign > in and out must really make people less motivated to venture out on > their own--but that's a whole other issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to > consider whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major > factor in your decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about > LCB, but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you > can give me a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comc > ast.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne t From fowlers at syix.com Tue Jul 17 18:24:26 2012 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela Fowler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:24:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing: Breaking Down Barriers Message-ID: <007701cd6449$65b0fae0$3112f0a0$@syix.com> Hello all, Attached you will find the flyer for the California Association of Blind Students Breaking Down Barriers Seminar to be held on September 21, 2012 at Sacramento State University. Please pass this flyer on to all who may benefit. Sincerely, Angela Fowler -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: breaking_down_barriers_NCAL.doc Type: application/msword Size: 547328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ALewis at nfb.org Tue Jul 17 19:13:58 2012 From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:13:58 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Letter to the Editor Message-ID: <72D51A25A403F249A0FC4A94A0D9640D0A800599@CH1PRD0710MB380.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> All: The following is a copy of a letter to the editor submitted by one of our members in response to a Goodwill article. As you can tell by the tone of the letter, Goodwill continues to try to understate or dismiss the use of the Special Wage Certificates they use to pay their workers with disabilities subminimum wages. Feel free to use the language in this response to draft comments to your local papers. July 12, 2012 Dear Editor: Your article "Goodwill Good for Economy" failed to mention that the Rappahannock Goodwill Industries and other Goodwill affiliates in the United States are allowed to pay their workers with disabilities less than the federal minimum wage. This practice is legal because these nonprofits receive special wage certificates from the U.S. Department of Labor under an obscure, seventy-five-year-old provision of the Fair Labor Standards Act. But the fact that something is legal doesn't make it right, and the practice of paying less than minimum wage to workers just because they have a disability is unfair, discriminatory, and immoral. I would urge readers to find a more worthy recipient of their donations than Goodwill until all of its affiliates stop this practice, and to call their congressional representatives and ask them to support the Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act (H.R. 3086). That's certainly what I plan to do. Sincerely, Michael Kasey From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 20:37:21 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:37:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <-1949934352130252659@unknownmsgid> References: <50058af7.2192ec0a.1cbb.ffff9266@mx.google.com><585A03A0B3414A1DADA610EAC1B4A370@OwnerPC> <-1949934352130252659@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <901CA8456C0A4FEC887C04B32E4621B9@OwnerPC> Ignosi, its only a few people still talking about it; I said to move on. Yep, lets talk something productive or just go play in the hot outdoors. -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Seriously... People should really find more productive ways to use their summer... Why in the world are you guys still talking about this? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 17, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > If she is a real member on this list, she needs to acknowledge that > her account was hacked. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Sophie, >> right, it was a mistake. So don't click on the link and move on. I only >> click on links if I know where they will lead. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sophie Trist >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:55 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> I don't see what she has to apologize for. I mean, it's not like >> she went up to some hacker and asked, "Could you please hack my >> email account and send spam to everyone in my address book?" She >> might not even know her account's been hacked. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:18:11 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> That's what I was saying. >> Spam links like that shouldn't ever be opened. >> Someone hacked this lady's account! >> I hope she actually replys to these messages, and appologizes for >> this mess. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: >> DO NOT OPEN THE LINK. ITS A SCAM REMAX PORTAL. >> DEB >> >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Gloria G >> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I >> open it. >> Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" >> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT >> >> >> Please view the document I uploaded for you. >> >> Click here >> >> > uiadesantiago.cl/untitled/remax-by-mikel/ >> Just sign >> in with your email to view the document. >> >> >> Thank you. >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> net.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> >> gloria.graves%40gmail.com> l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> net.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com> fbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From katminecce at yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 22:16:33 2012 From: katminecce at yahoo.com (Katie Cl) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:16:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Message-ID: Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 22:37:33 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Message-ID: <5005e939.c998320a.7464.ffffee62@mx.google.com> Katie, Hi, my name is Beth. I did not graduate college yet, but I'm going back in a major of women's studies. I had bad experiences in high school as well. You are welcome to write me off list if you need something or whautever it is you want to talk about. Whuaft college are you going to? My old university recently had to settle a lawsuit with a friend of mine or two over its math department inaccessibility. So I'd be careful whaut college you are going on to. As for approaching the subject of someone who can see learning about your blindness, I'd put a little humor in it. I'm not sure, but first, I'd write down whaut you want to say, read that out loud to yourself, and then decide for yourself whether you want to say it or not. Sometimes a littel humor gets people disarmed much quicker than just saying, "I'm blind. I can't see. I have to be accommodated." etc. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Katie Cl References: <5005e939.c998320a.7464.ffffee62@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Katie, Like Beth, I am excited to hear what college you are going to. However, I would not nececcerily choose your college on how accessible it is. I would make choices based on academics and teach them how to become more accessible if need be. In general, college students are more accepting than high school students because institutions of higher learning are very into diversity. Honesty, humor, and letting them know that there is more to you then sight or the lack thereof is the beat thing you can do. David On Tuesday, July 17, 2012, Beth wrote: > Katie, > Hi, my name is Beth. I did not graduate college yet, but I'm going back in a major of women's studies. I had bad experiences in high school as well. You are welcome to write me off list if you need something or whautever it is you want to talk about. Whuaft college are you going to? My old university recently had to settle a lawsuit with a friend of mine or two over its math department inaccessibility. So I'd be careful whaut college you are going on to. As for approaching the subject of someone who can see learning about your blindness, I'd put a little humor in it. I'm not sure, but first, I'd write down whaut you want to say, read that out loud to yourself, and then decide for yourself whether you want to say it or not. Sometimes a littel humor gets people disarmed much quicker than just saying, "I'm blind. I can't see. I have to be accommodated." etc. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katie Cl To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:16:33 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu > -- ---------------------------------- David Dodge Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson English Major University at Buffalo 306 Clemens Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 daviddod at buffalo.edu From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 22:50:44 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:50:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717155002.01c43e80@comcast.net> Hi, Ms. Katie, Are you a total or do you have some vision?/2012, you wrote: >Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this >fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they >couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want >it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. >THANKS > ><3 Princess Cy-I <3 >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 22:57:11 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:57:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Research Study Message-ID: Hi all, I apologize that you will be getting this a second time from Dave Andrews later, but I wanted to get it out to you guys as soon as I could. I hope many of you will contribute to my research. Dear list, My name is Arielle Silverman, and I am a doctoral student in psychology at the University of Colorado at Boulder. I am conducting an online study investigating the factors that relate to educational and employment success for blind and visually impaired people, including your feelings about your life overall, your experiences interacting with the sighted public, and what blindness-related skills you use. I am looking for legally blind adults over the age of 18 who live in the United States to participate in my study. This study consists of an online survey, which should take you about half an hour to complete. In exchange for your participation, you will have the opportunity to enter a raffle drawing for a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com. All of your responses will be anonymous and confidential. To begin the study, please go to: www.surveymonkey.com/s/blindstudy1 If you would prefer to fill out the survey by phone, you can call me at 602-502-2255 Between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. Mountain time. If you have any questions before, during or after the study, feel free to contact me at 602-502-2255 Or by email at Arielle.silverman at colorado.edu You may also contact my advisor, Dr. Geoffrey Cohen, at Cohen.geoff at gmail.com Thank you in advance for your participation in our research. Warmest regards, Arielle Silverman, M.A. Social Psychology doctoral student Department of Psychology and Neuroscience University of Colorado at Boulder 345 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0345 Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: Arielle.silverman at colorado.edu From katminecce at yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 23:00:30 2012 From: katminecce at yahoo.com (Katie Cl) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:00:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005e939.c998320a.7464.ffffee62@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <721FAD38-89B8-4668-A68F-6739575369BA@yahoo.com> I am going to Southern Illinois University and am majoring in Architecture. I have some vision. I am the first person to ever major in Architecture so the professors have bees worked about me in the class. With other people on my floor should I just tell them that I can't see or just if they ask? I will most defiantly use humor, that sounds good. <3 Princess Cy-I <3 On Jul 17, 2012, at 5:46 PM, David Dodge wrote: > Katie, > Like Beth, I am excited to hear what college you are going to. However, I > would not nececcerily choose your college on how accessible it is. I would > make choices based on academics and teach them how to become more > accessible if need be. > > In general, college students are more accepting than high school students > because institutions of higher learning are very into diversity. > > Honesty, humor, and letting them know that there is more to you then sight > or the lack thereof is the beat thing you can do. > > David > > On Tuesday, July 17, 2012, Beth wrote: >> Katie, >> Hi, my name is Beth. I did not graduate college yet, but I'm going back > in a major of women's studies. I had bad experiences in high school as > well. You are welcome to write me off list if you need something or > whautever it is you want to talk about. Whuaft college are you going to? > My old university recently had to settle a lawsuit with a friend of mine > or two over its math department inaccessibility. So I'd be careful whaut > college you are going on to. As for approaching the subject of someone who > can see learning about your blindness, I'd put a little humor in it. I'm > not sure, but first, I'd write down whaut you want to say, read that out > loud to yourself, and then decide for yourself whether you want to say it > or not. Sometimes a littel humor gets people disarmed much quicker than > just saying, "I'm blind. I can't see. I have to be accommodated." etc. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Katie Cl > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:16:33 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. > I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. > In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. > Any advice would be helpful. >> THANKS >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu >> > > -- > ---------------------------------- > David Dodge > Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson > English Major > University at Buffalo > 306 Clemens Hall > Buffalo, NY 14260 > daviddod at buffalo.edu > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/katminecce%40yahoo.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:08:03 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:08:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7912B163C43E460FB12DA66D36F13CFE@AnjelinaPC> If you use a cane or dog guide this'll give others the indication that you are unable to see. -----Original Message----- From: Katie Cl Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:12:58 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:12:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <7912B163C43E460FB12DA66D36F13CFE@AnjelinaPC> References: <7912B163C43E460FB12DA66D36F13CFE@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: I agree! BTW, Katie, welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Anjelina wrote: > If you use a cane or dog guide this'll give others the indication that you > are unable to see. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Katie Cl > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:16 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I > > was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In > > high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any > advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From lily2011a at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:14:19 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:14:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Katie, My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as well. I understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after telling people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As far as I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are already in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. It's more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to grow up. Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be yourself and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even though you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. Get involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to them that you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can do is educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to get out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and where ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For example, I am emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that I am blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to get my work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be taking notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing with me. I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes begin, and will be asking them if they have any questions for me. Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any questions for you about blindness to feel free to ask. Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your year. Be confident in you! You've got this! College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you for who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some vision, then they aren't worth being friends with... People come to college from all different areas around the world and each student has something unique about them. So just reach out to those around you and show them that no matter what, you can succeed. I understand what you are going through in your mind though. I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for college as well. Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado Center For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to college and in myself too. Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate away from my home town and family. Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do well! If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any time at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu Cheers! Liliya On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I > was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In > high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any > advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 23:19:05 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try so hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet in their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > I'm going to attend LCB, after > graduating from college. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > wrote: > > Hello Joshua and everyone, > > > >     Let' sleet her decide if she > would benefit from a complete training > > program or not. All three NFB centers have > employment-related assistance and > > > > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been > to an NFB center > > yourself? > > > > Peter Donahue > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > > > > > > She has the skills to take care of herself. > > She needs job training. > > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > > Thanks, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > wrote: > >> Good morning everyone, > >> > >>     LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >> and > >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the > blind persons it claims > >> > >> to > >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed > there for many years. At > >> one > >> time it was accredited by the National > Accreditation Council for Agencies > >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) > Its former blind > >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a > reputation for condoning > >> practices that often led to blind persons being > abused, mistreated, and > >> in > >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less > than the Federal minimum > >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" > failed to address > >> these > >> issues. For example the standards called for the > agency's grounds to be > >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered > workshops they accredited to > >> pay > >> all employees including the blind employees the > Federal minimum wage. > >> > >>     In 1985 NAC held its annual > meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >> there > >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises > for the Blind and the > >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the > NFB. While at AEB a > >> number of AEB clients told us that there were > problems and that it needed > >> > >> to > >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on > that picket line. > >> > >>     Judging from what I've read > NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such > as LWSB. Amber here's > >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training > center. These centers > >> are > >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the > best. > >> > >> Peter Donahue > >> > >> > >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > >> > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> > >> > >> Amber, > >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I > commend your efforts in > >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did > a good job for > >> someone > >> who did not have a good experience.  I've also > heard bad rumors about it. > >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised > that > >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the > clients it does. > >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a > job program? > >> > >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't > bother me. You are in > >> a > >> training setting and with this litigious society, > they need to account > >> for > >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need > to know where > >> everyone > >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. > Youwouldn't want your > >> parents or friends or family calling and them > saying, oh, we do not know > >> where your son is;  he may be on campus or > not. > >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge > would bother me. As a > >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in > my room. > >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or > cold snack when I wanted > >> to. > >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was > definitely nice. > >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat > late at home; between 7 > >> and > >> 8pm. > >> > >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal > decision to leave. So I wish > >> you luck in your next decision to find decent > training or whatever you > >> need. > >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure > if you are a current > >> college student or recent grad. > >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as > it opens up more doors > >> to > >> you. > >> > >> Ashley > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing > list' > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> > >> Ian, > >> > >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on > Friday.  Here is what > >> I > >> have experienced.  I will do my best to give > only facts and not color > >> those > >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I > will clearly state that > >> if > >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not > one should attend this > >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to > say no.  But I am not > >> you > >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have > experienced here has > >> colored > >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >> > >> The facts: > >> > >> *Several students (including myself) have had > valuables go missing. > >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety > codes. (just one > >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken > wings, and though the > >> outside was hot, the inside was not.  I would > not mention this, except > >> this > >> is not an isolated incident.) > >> *The showers have light bulbs  (not protected > by any kind of panels) > >> inside > >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally > splashed.  I brought > >> this > >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but > mine is not the only > >> one > >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other > clients.) > >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the > building is full of > >> bugs. > >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but > bugs were found even > >> in > >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do > not leave food in > >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on > them etc.) > >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > refrigerators in their rooms, > >> and > >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at > all except cafeteria > >> food.  There are microwaves that physically > exist, but they do not work > >> very > >> well. > >> > >> Now I can say that there are other things I could > talk about, but they > >> probably come down to personal preference and > really are just normal > >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any > college dorm, except they > >> are > >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is > scaled down hugely. > >> So > >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you > could go to a dining > >> hall > >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to > meals at the times > >> specified, you don't eat meals.  I am sure > that anyone can argue that > >> when > >> in school, you have to work with a particular > schedule, and while this is > >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact > that we can't even > >> have > >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we > may maintain the > >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. > >> > >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may > not affect anyone, but > >> I > >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I > would be doing a great > >> disservice to anyone considering attending this > center. > >> > >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an > authority figure.  He was > >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > approaching the baggage claim > >> with > >> a female passenger from my flight.  This > authority figure approached me > >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my > waist, hugged me to > >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the > female passenger who > >> had > >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under > control from there, but > >> thanks."  After which, he looked down at me > and said, "How was your trip, > >> Punkin?  We've missed you!  We're so glad > you're home!" > >> > >> This man did not announce himself to me in the > beginning, should have > >> been > >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my > father, and possibly > >> even > >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me > minimally since my arrival at > >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc.  Basically, > it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> what > >> one would call professional or even acceptable > regardless of setting. > >> > >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; > only you can decide that > >> for yourself.  What I can tell you is that the > man who did this to me was > >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been > reported multiple times > >> by > >> other females that he has violated in one way or > another, and still holds > >> > >> a > >> job here.  I believe there is something big > going on here that I am > >> unaware > >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >> > >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but > regardless of that, I > >> could > >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >> > >> I hope this helps you make your decision.  If > it does not, please know > >> that > >> I wish you all the best. > >> > >> Amber R. Herrin > >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >> Impossible is not a word > >> It's just a reason > >> For someone not to try > >> > >> Everybody's scared to death > >> When they decide to take that step > >> Out on the water > >> It'll be alright > >> > >> Life is so much more > >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >> You will find your way > >> If you keep believing" > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf > >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> > >> Ian, > >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used > to go there on to > >> stay > >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can > say is that LWSB has > >> made > >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would > think about visiting > >> there > >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have > an option to live off > >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a > sign in and sign out > >> policy  after class time. Now they may have > sign in and sign out policy > >> during class time to keep count of attendance, > however, this is know > >> different signing in and signing out of work which > everyone blind and > >> sighted has to do. > >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there > and frankly since you > >> have > >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, > it is a guarantied > >> employment after completing the program and they > start at 45,000 or more. > >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said > above LWSB now known as > >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of > changes under the new > >> director > >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. > As I said earlier, I > >> would make a visit there before making any kind of > decision. > >> > >> Anmol > >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it > is vague, like a > >> breeze > >> among flowers. > >> Hellen Keller > >> > >> > >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > wrote: > >> > >>> From: Ian Perrault > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" > > >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >>> Hi > >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended > LWSB for one of their > >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in > general? > >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and > was reading the manual, > >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured > environment, even > >>> though most of the participants are adults. For > instance, you have to > >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things > like that. Have any of > >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your > experiences were. Since > >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s > not as independent of an > >>> environment. > >>> Ian > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >>> oo.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From lily2011a at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:21:08 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And I agree about adding in humour. On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > Hi Katie, > My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as well. I > understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after telling > people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As far as > I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are already > in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. It's > more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to grow up. > Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be yourself > and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even though > you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. Get > involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to them that > you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can do is > educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to get > out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and where > ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For example, I am > emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that I am > blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to get my > work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be taking > notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing with me. > I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes begin, and > will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any questions > for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your year. > Be confident in you! You've got this! > College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you for > who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some vision, then > they aren't worth being friends with... > People come to college from all different areas around the world and > each student has something unique about them. So just reach out to > those around you and show them that no matter what, you can succeed. > I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for college as > well. > Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado Center > For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to college > and in myself too. > Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate away > from my home town and family. > Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do well! > If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any time > at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > Cheers! > Liliya > > On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. >> I >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. >> In >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any >> advice would be helpful. >> THANKS >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >> > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:21:46 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:21:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great post, and welcome, Lily! Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > Hi Katie, > My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as well. I > understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after telling > people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As far as > I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are already > in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. It's > more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to grow up. > Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be yourself > and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even though > you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. Get > involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to them that > you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can do is > educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to get > out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and where > ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For example, I am > emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that I am > blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to get my > work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be taking > notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing with me. > I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes begin, and > will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any questions > for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your year. > Be confident in you! You've got this! > College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you for > who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some vision, then > they aren't worth being friends with... > People come to college from all different areas around the world and > each student has something unique about them. So just reach out to > those around you and show them that no matter what, you can succeed. > I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for college as > well. > Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado Center > For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to college > and in myself too. > Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate away > from my home town and family. > Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do well! > If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any time > at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > Cheers! > Liliya > > On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. >> I >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. >> In >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any >> advice would be helpful. >> THANKS >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:22:29 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:22:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular organizational position. Arielle On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try so > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet in > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> graduating from college. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> > >> >     Let' sleet her decide if she >> would benefit from a complete training >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> employment-related assistance and >> > >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >> to an NFB center >> > yourself? >> > >> > Peter Donahue >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> > >> > >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> > She needs job training. >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> > Thanks, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >>     LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> and >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> to >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >> there for many years. At >> >> one >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >> Its former blind >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >> reputation for condoning >> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> in >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >> than the Federal minimum >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >> failed to address >> >> these >> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >> agency's grounds to be >> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >> workshops they accredited to >> >> pay >> >> all employees including the blind employees the >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >>     In 1985 NAC held its annual >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> there >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >> for the Blind and the >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> to >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >> that picket line. >> >> >> >>     Judging from what I've read >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >> center. These centers >> >> are >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >> best. >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >> commend your efforts in >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >> a good job for >> >> someone >> >> who did not have a good experience.  I've also >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >> that >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >> clients it does. >> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >> job program? >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >> bother me. You are in >> >> a >> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >> they need to account >> >> for >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >> to know where >> >> everyone >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> where your son is;  he may be on campus or >> not. >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >> would bother me. As a >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >> my room. >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> to. >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >> definitely nice. >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >> late at home; between 7 >> >> and >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >> training or whatever you >> >> need. >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >> if you are a current >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >> it opens up more doors >> >> to >> >> you. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list' >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >> Friday.  Here is what >> >> I >> >> have experienced.  I will do my best to give >> only facts and not color >> >> those >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >> will clearly state that >> >> if >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >> one should attend this >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >> say no.  But I am not >> >> you >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >> experienced here has >> >> colored >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >> valuables go missing. >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >> codes. (just one >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >> wings, and though the >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not.  I would >> not mention this, except >> >> this >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> *The showers have light bulbs  (not protected >> by any kind of panels) >> >> inside >> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >> splashed.  I brought >> >> this >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >> mine is not the only >> >> one >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >> clients.) >> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >> building is full of >> >> bugs. >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >> bugs were found even >> >> in >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >> not leave food in >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >> them etc.) >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> and >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >> all except cafeteria >> >> food.  There are microwaves that physically >> exist, but they do not work >> >> very >> >> well. >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >> talk about, but they >> >> probably come down to personal preference and >> really are just normal >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >> college dorm, except they >> >> are >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >> scaled down hugely. >> >> So >> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >> could go to a dining >> >> hall >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >> meals at the times >> >> specified, you don't eat meals.  I am sure >> that anyone can argue that >> >> when >> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >> schedule, and while this is >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >> that we can't even >> >> have >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >> may maintain the >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >> not affect anyone, but >> >> I >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >> would be doing a great >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >> center. >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >> authority figure.  He was >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> with >> >> a female passenger from my flight.  This >> authority figure approached me >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >> waist, hugged me to >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >> female passenger who >> >> had >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >> control from there, but >> >> thanks."  After which, he looked down at me >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> Punkin?  We've missed you!  We're so glad >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >> beginning, should have >> >> been >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >> father, and possibly >> >> even >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc.  Basically, >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> what >> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >> only you can decide that >> >> for yourself.  What I can tell you is that the >> man who did this to me was >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >> reported multiple times >> >> by >> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> a >> >> job here.  I believe there is something big >> going on here that I am >> >> unaware >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >> regardless of that, I >> >> could >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision.  If >> it does not, please know >> >> that >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> It's just a reason >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >> Out on the water >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> You will find your way >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >> to go there on to >> >> stay >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >> say is that LWSB has >> >> made >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >> think about visiting >> >> there >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >> an option to live off >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >> sign in and sign out >> >> policy  after class time. Now they may have >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >> however, this is know >> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >> everyone blind and >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >> and frankly since you >> >> have >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >> it is a guarantied >> >> employment after completing the program and they >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >> above LWSB now known as >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >> changes under the new >> >> director >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >> As I said earlier, I >> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >> decision. >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >> is vague, like a >> >> breeze >> >> among flowers. >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >>> Hi >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >> LWSB for one of their >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >> general? >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >> was reading the manual, >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >> environment, even >> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >> instance, you have to >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >> like that. Have any of >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >> experiences were. Since >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >> not as independent of an >> >>> environment. >> >>> Ian >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >>> oo.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:23:24 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:23:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anmol, they wouldn't stop Alan Ramos from the California Council from recruiting. That was the guy that tried to recruit me. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try so > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet in > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> graduating from college. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> > >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >> would benefit from a complete training >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> employment-related assistance and >> > >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >> to an NFB center >> > yourself? >> > >> > Peter Donahue >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> > >> > >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> > She needs job training. >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> > Thanks, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> and >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> to >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >> there for many years. At >> >> one >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >> Its former blind >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >> reputation for condoning >> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> in >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >> than the Federal minimum >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >> failed to address >> >> these >> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >> agency's grounds to be >> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >> workshops they accredited to >> >> pay >> >> all employees including the blind employees the >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> there >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >> for the Blind and the >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> to >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >> that picket line. >> >> >> >> Judging from what I've read >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >> center. These centers >> >> are >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >> best. >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >> commend your efforts in >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >> a good job for >> >> someone >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >> that >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >> clients it does. >> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >> job program? >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >> bother me. You are in >> >> a >> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >> they need to account >> >> for >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >> to know where >> >> everyone >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >> not. >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >> would bother me. As a >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >> my room. >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> to. >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >> definitely nice. >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >> late at home; between 7 >> >> and >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >> training or whatever you >> >> need. >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >> if you are a current >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >> it opens up more doors >> >> to >> >> you. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list' >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >> Friday. Here is what >> >> I >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >> only facts and not color >> >> those >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >> will clearly state that >> >> if >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >> one should attend this >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >> say no. But I am not >> >> you >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >> experienced here has >> >> colored >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >> valuables go missing. >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >> codes. (just one >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >> wings, and though the >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >> not mention this, except >> >> this >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >> by any kind of panels) >> >> inside >> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >> splashed. I brought >> >> this >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >> mine is not the only >> >> one >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >> clients.) >> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >> building is full of >> >> bugs. >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >> bugs were found even >> >> in >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >> not leave food in >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >> them etc.) >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> and >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >> all except cafeteria >> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >> exist, but they do not work >> >> very >> >> well. >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >> talk about, but they >> >> probably come down to personal preference and >> really are just normal >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >> college dorm, except they >> >> are >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >> scaled down hugely. >> >> So >> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >> could go to a dining >> >> hall >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >> meals at the times >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >> that anyone can argue that >> >> when >> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >> schedule, and while this is >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >> that we can't even >> >> have >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >> may maintain the >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >> not affect anyone, but >> >> I >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >> would be doing a great >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >> center. >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >> authority figure. He was >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> with >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >> authority figure approached me >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >> waist, hugged me to >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >> female passenger who >> >> had >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >> control from there, but >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >> beginning, should have >> >> been >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >> father, and possibly >> >> even >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> what >> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >> only you can decide that >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >> man who did this to me was >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >> reported multiple times >> >> by >> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> a >> >> job here. I believe there is something big >> going on here that I am >> >> unaware >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >> regardless of that, I >> >> could >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >> it does not, please know >> >> that >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> It's just a reason >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >> Out on the water >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> You will find your way >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >> to go there on to >> >> stay >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >> say is that LWSB has >> >> made >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >> think about visiting >> >> there >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >> an option to live off >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >> sign in and sign out >> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >> however, this is know >> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >> everyone blind and >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >> and frankly since you >> >> have >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >> it is a guarantied >> >> employment after completing the program and they >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >> above LWSB now known as >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >> changes under the new >> >> director >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >> As I said earlier, I >> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >> decision. >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >> is vague, like a >> >> breeze >> >> among flowers. >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >>> Hi >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >> LWSB for one of their >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >> general? >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >> was reading the manual, >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >> environment, even >> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >> instance, you have to >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >> like that. Have any of >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >> experiences were. Since >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >> not as independent of an >> >>> environment. >> >>> Ian >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >>> oo.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:22:10 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:22:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <721FAD38-89B8-4668-A68F-6739575369BA@yahoo.com> References: <5005e939.c998320a.7464.ffffee62@mx.google.com> <721FAD38-89B8-4668-A68F-6739575369BA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think it depends on the situation. If you are talking to a faculty member because you need accommodations, you don't necessarily have to go into what you can and cannot see. Just explain that you are blind and what accommodations you do need. If you have some vision and if you can successfully use that vision, then you could maybe explain that, but all the professor really needs to know is the accommodations you need. They might ask questions, and a lot of people will. I prefer to just answer them honestly and use the opportunities as educating experiences. I had a lot of good experiences with higher Ed faculty, but I will have to say that although you will not receive the direct joking and making-fun in college that you necessarily would in middle and high school, I repeatedly overheard people talking about me as I passed by on campus, and I often ran into ignorant people. I do not believe this is any different from the real world though. I think that if you overhear people talking about you, you should ignore them. They aren't inviting you into the conversation. One thing my friends with vision do is make eye contact if they can. Some of my sighted friends did this if they noticed people staring at me when we walked together. If people are asking you ignorant questions, give them educational answers. I have also found that asking questions about them can show that you are more than just blind. If I am walking down the street and someone makes a derogatory comment and says something that is truly ignorant, I often just keep walking. But, if I am at a light or something and someone nicely asks how I cross the street, I take it as an educational opportunity. So as you can see, it is all case by case combined with your comfort level. I would encourage you to be comfortable though, because that means people will be comfortable around you. It is unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but everyone has bad experiences getting to know others. You will meet some people that just don't get it in college, and I hate to be the cynic, but if you can't maintain a mutually beneficial friendship, then move on. People giving you bad experiences because you are blind aren't worth your time if you make an honest effort that is fruitless. We are always here to answer questions, so if you encounter a situation that is particularly difficult in approaching because you are blind, then you are welcome to ask. Some ways to mitigate the nervousness are to get involved with clubs and activities that are of interest to you, because then you know that you will have something in common with the people you meet at these activities. But overall, just show up to things. Go to architectural presentations and dorm events. Ask people on your hall if you want to eat together, and if you need assistance in the dining hall, just ask for assistance and ask if one of the students can look out for you and show you where they are sitting. Or, you might meet some friends who are nice enough to assist you. But be sure that if they are concentrating on blindness or just helping you to be a Good Samaritan that you prove that you are independent and can do it if they are not there, and that you are more than just blindness by bringing up what you like to do. But by just showing up and interacting with people, you are proving that you are just like all of the other freshmen. Cindy On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > I am going to Southern Illinois University and am majoring in Architecture. > I have some vision. I am the first person to ever major in Architecture so > the professors have bees worked about me in the class. With other people on > my floor should I just tell them that I can't see or just if they ask? I > will most defiantly use humor, that sounds good. > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > > On Jul 17, 2012, at 5:46 PM, David Dodge wrote: > >> Katie, >> Like Beth, I am excited to hear what college you are going to. However, I >> would not nececcerily choose your college on how accessible it is. I >> would >> make choices based on academics and teach them how to become more >> accessible if need be. >> >> In general, college students are more accepting than high school students >> because institutions of higher learning are very into diversity. >> >> Honesty, humor, and letting them know that there is more to you then >> sight >> or the lack thereof is the beat thing you can do. >> >> David >> >> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012, Beth wrote: >>> Katie, >>> Hi, my name is Beth. I did not graduate college yet, but I'm going back >> in a major of women's studies. I had bad experiences in high school as >> well. You are welcome to write me off list if you need something or >> whautever it is you want to talk about. Whuaft college are you going to? >> My old university recently had to settle a lawsuit with a friend of mine >> or two over its math department inaccessibility. So I'd be careful whaut >> college you are going on to. As for approaching the subject of someone >> who >> can see learning about your blindness, I'd put a little humor in it. I'm >> not sure, but first, I'd write down whaut you want to say, read that out >> loud to yourself, and then decide for yourself whether you want to say it >> or not. Sometimes a littel humor gets people disarmed much quicker than >> just saying, "I'm blind. I can't see. I have to be accommodated." etc. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Katie Cl >> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:16:33 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>> >>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this >>> fall. >> I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't >> see. >> In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. >> Any advice would be helpful. >>> THANKS >>> >>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu >>> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------- >> David Dodge >> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >> English Major >> University at Buffalo >> 306 Clemens Hall >> Buffalo, NY 14260 >> daviddod at buffalo.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/katminecce%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:32:08 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:32:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's what's going on. Their independence training was a scam, as well. My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive technology. When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) etc. If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress the need for such machines? Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and > try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular > organizational position. > Arielle > > On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try >> so >> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >> in >> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>> graduating from college. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> wrote: >>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>> > >>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>> would benefit from a complete training >>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>> employment-related assistance and >>> > >>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>> to an NFB center >>> > yourself? >>> > >>> > Peter Donahue >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> > >>> > >>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>> > She needs job training. >>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>> > Thanks, Joshua >>> > >>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> wrote: >>> >> Good morning everyone, >>> >> >>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>> >> and >>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>> blind persons it claims >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>> there for many years. At >>> >> one >>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>> Its former blind >>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>> reputation for condoning >>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>> abused, mistreated, and >>> >> in >>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>> than the Federal minimum >>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>> failed to address >>> >> these >>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>> agency's grounds to be >>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>> workshops they accredited to >>> >> pay >>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>> Federal minimum wage. >>> >> >>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>> >> there >>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>> for the Blind and the >>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>> NFB. While at AEB a >>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>> problems and that it needed >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>> that picket line. >>> >> >>> >> Judging from what I've read >>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>> center. These centers >>> >> are >>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>> best. >>> >> >>> >> Peter Donahue >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> >> >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Amber, >>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>> commend your efforts in >>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>> a good job for >>> >> someone >>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>> heard bad rumors about it. >>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>> that >>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>> clients it does. >>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>> job program? >>> >> >>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>> bother me. You are in >>> >> a >>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>> they need to account >>> >> for >>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>> to know where >>> >> everyone >>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>> Youwouldn't want your >>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>> saying, oh, we do not know >>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>> not. >>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>> would bother me. As a >>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>> my room. >>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>> cold snack when I wanted >>> >> to. >>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>> definitely nice. >>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>> late at home; between 7 >>> >> and >>> >> 8pm. >>> >> >>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>> decision to leave. So I wish >>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>> training or whatever you >>> >> need. >>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>> if you are a current >>> >> college student or recent grad. >>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>> it opens up more doors >>> >> to >>> >> you. >>> >> >>> >> Ashley >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list' >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Ian, >>> >> >>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>> Friday. Here is what >>> >> I >>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>> only facts and not color >>> >> those >>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>> will clearly state that >>> >> if >>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>> one should attend this >>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>> say no. But I am not >>> >> you >>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>> experienced here has >>> >> colored >>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>> >> >>> >> The facts: >>> >> >>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>> valuables go missing. >>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>> codes. (just one >>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>> wings, and though the >>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>> not mention this, except >>> >> this >>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>> by any kind of panels) >>> >> inside >>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>> splashed. I brought >>> >> this >>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>> mine is not the only >>> >> one >>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>> clients.) >>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>> building is full of >>> >> bugs. >>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>> bugs were found even >>> >> in >>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>> not leave food in >>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>> them etc.) >>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>> >> and >>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>> all except cafeteria >>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>> exist, but they do not work >>> >> very >>> >> well. >>> >> >>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>> talk about, but they >>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>> really are just normal >>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>> college dorm, except they >>> >> are >>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>> scaled down hugely. >>> >> So >>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>> could go to a dining >>> >> hall >>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>> meals at the times >>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>> that anyone can argue that >>> >> when >>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>> schedule, and while this is >>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>> that we can't even >>> >> have >>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>> may maintain the >>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>> >> >>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>> not affect anyone, but >>> >> I >>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>> would be doing a great >>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>> center. >>> >> >>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>> authority figure. He was >>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>> approaching the baggage claim >>> >> with >>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>> authority figure approached me >>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>> waist, hugged me to >>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>> female passenger who >>> >> had >>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>> control from there, but >>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>> and said, "How was your trip, >>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>> you're home!" >>> >> >>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>> beginning, should have >>> >> been >>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>> father, and possibly >>> >> even >>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>> minimally since my arrival at >>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>> >> what >>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>> regardless of setting. >>> >> >>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>> only you can decide that >>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>> man who did this to me was >>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>> reported multiple times >>> >> by >>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>> another, and still holds >>> >> >>> >> a >>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>> going on here that I am >>> >> unaware >>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> >> >>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>> regardless of that, I >>> >> could >>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>> >> >>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>> it does not, please know >>> >> that >>> >> I wish you all the best. >>> >> >>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> >> Impossible is not a word >>> >> It's just a reason >>> >> For someone not to try >>> >> >>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>> >> When they decide to take that step >>> >> Out on the water >>> >> It'll be alright >>> >> >>> >> Life is so much more >>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> >> You will find your way >>> >> If you keep believing" >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> >> Behalf >>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Ian, >>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>> to go there on to >>> >> stay >>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>> say is that LWSB has >>> >> made >>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>> think about visiting >>> >> there >>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>> an option to live off >>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>> sign in and sign out >>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>> sign in and sign out policy >>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>> however, this is know >>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>> everyone blind and >>> >> sighted has to do. >>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>> and frankly since you >>> >> have >>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>> it is a guarantied >>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>> start at 45,000 or more. >>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>> above LWSB now known as >>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>> changes under the new >>> >> director >>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>> As I said earlier, I >>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>> decision. >>> >> >>> >> Anmol >>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> make me sad. Perhaps >>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>> is vague, like a >>> >> breeze >>> >> among flowers. >>> >> Hellen Keller >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> >>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>> LWSB for one of their >>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>> general? >>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>> was reading the manual, >>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>> environment, even >>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>> instance, you have to >>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>> like that. Have any of >>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>> experiences were. Since >>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>> not as independent of an >>> >>> environment. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> >>> oo.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From lily2011a at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:34:00 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:34:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005e939.c998320a.7464.ffffee62@mx.google.com> <721FAD38-89B8-4668-A68F-6739575369BA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Josh. And blessings to you as well! On 7/17/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > I think it depends on the situation. If you are talking to a faculty > member because you need accommodations, you don't necessarily have to > go into what you can and cannot see. Just explain that you are blind > and what accommodations you do need. If you have some vision and if > you can successfully use that vision, then you could maybe explain > that, but all the professor really needs to know is the accommodations > you need. They might ask questions, and a lot of people will. I prefer > to just answer them honestly and use the opportunities as educating > experiences. I had a lot of good experiences with higher Ed faculty, > but I will have to say that although you will not receive the direct > joking and making-fun in college that you necessarily would in middle > and high school, I repeatedly overheard people talking about me as I > passed by on campus, and I often ran into ignorant people. I do not > believe this is any different from the real world though. I think that > if you overhear people talking about you, you should ignore them. They > aren't inviting you into the conversation. One thing my friends with > vision do is make eye contact if they can. Some of my sighted friends > did this if they noticed people staring at me when we walked together. > If people are asking you ignorant questions, give them educational > answers. I have also found that asking questions about them can show > that you are more than just blind. If I am walking down the street and > someone makes a derogatory comment and says something that is truly > ignorant, I often just keep walking. But, if I am at a light or > something and someone nicely asks how I cross the street, I take it as > an educational opportunity. So as you can see, it is all case by case > combined with your comfort level. I would encourage you to be > comfortable though, because that means people will be comfortable > around you. It is unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but > everyone has bad experiences getting to know others. You will meet > some people that just don't get it in college, and I hate to be the > cynic, but if you can't maintain a mutually beneficial friendship, > then move on. People giving you bad experiences because you are blind > aren't worth your time if you make an honest effort that is fruitless. > > We are always here to answer questions, so if you encounter a > situation that is particularly difficult in approaching because you > are blind, then you are welcome to ask. Some ways to mitigate the > nervousness are to get involved with clubs and activities that are of > interest to you, because then you know that you will have something in > common with the people you meet at these activities. But overall, just > show up to things. Go to architectural presentations and dorm events. > Ask people on your hall if you want to eat together, and if you need > assistance in the dining hall, just ask for assistance and ask if one > of the students can look out for you and show you where they are > sitting. Or, you might meet some friends who are nice enough to assist > you. But be sure that if they are concentrating on blindness or just > helping you to be a Good Samaritan that you prove that you are > independent and can do it if they are not there, and that you are more > than just blindness by bringing up what you like to do. But by just > showing up and interacting with people, you are proving that you are > just like all of the other freshmen. > > Cindy > > > On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> I am going to Southern Illinois University and am majoring in >> Architecture. >> I have some vision. I am the first person to ever major in Architecture >> so >> the professors have bees worked about me in the class. With other people >> on >> my floor should I just tell them that I can't see or just if they ask? I >> will most defiantly use humor, that sounds good. >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >> On Jul 17, 2012, at 5:46 PM, David Dodge wrote: >> >>> Katie, >>> Like Beth, I am excited to hear what college you are going to. However, >>> I >>> would not nececcerily choose your college on how accessible it is. I >>> would >>> make choices based on academics and teach them how to become more >>> accessible if need be. >>> >>> In general, college students are more accepting than high school >>> students >>> because institutions of higher learning are very into diversity. >>> >>> Honesty, humor, and letting them know that there is more to you then >>> sight >>> or the lack thereof is the beat thing you can do. >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012, Beth wrote: >>>> Katie, >>>> Hi, my name is Beth. I did not graduate college yet, but I'm going >>>> back >>> in a major of women's studies. I had bad experiences in high school as >>> well. You are welcome to write me off list if you need something or >>> whautever it is you want to talk about. Whuaft college are you going >>> to? >>> My old university recently had to settle a lawsuit with a friend of mine >>> or two over its math department inaccessibility. So I'd be careful >>> whaut >>> college you are going on to. As for approaching the subject of someone >>> who >>> can see learning about your blindness, I'd put a little humor in it. >>> I'm >>> not sure, but first, I'd write down whaut you want to say, read that out >>> loud to yourself, and then decide for yourself whether you want to say >>> it >>> or not. Sometimes a littel humor gets people disarmed much quicker than >>> just saying, "I'm blind. I can't see. I have to be accommodated." etc. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Katie Cl >>> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:16:33 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>>> >>>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this >>>> fall. >>> I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't >>> see. >>> In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. >>> Any advice would be helpful. >>>> THANKS >>>> >>>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ---------------------------------- >>> David Dodge >>> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >>> English Major >>> University at Buffalo >>> 306 Clemens Hall >>> Buffalo, NY 14260 >>> daviddod at buffalo.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/katminecce%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:41:21 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:41:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Message-ID: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. ----- Original Message ----- From: Liliya Asadullina wrote: Hi Katie, My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as well. I understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after telling people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As far as I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are already in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. It's more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to grow up. Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be yourself and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even though you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. Get involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to them that you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can do is educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to get out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and where ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For example, I am emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that I am blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to get my work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be taking notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing with me. I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes begin, and will be asking them if they have any questions for me. Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any questions for you about blindness to feel free to ask. Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your year. Be confident in you! You've got this! College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you for who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some vision, then they aren't worth being friends with... People come to college from all different areas around the world and each student has something unique about them. So just reach out to those around you and show them that no matter what, you can succeed. I understand what you are going through in your mind though. I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for college as well. Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado Center For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to college and in myself too. Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate away from my home town and family. Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do well! If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any time at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu Cheers! Liliya On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:45:25 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:45:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center Message-ID: Hi all, Many VR agencies will tell clients that they can only send them to in-state or "in-contract" centers for training. However, this is only partially true. VR agencies prefer to send clients to centers with which they have established contracts, which are usually in-state centers. But by law VR agencies are required to support a client's choice of center if that choice is justified, even if the center is out-of-state or out-of-contract. I don't know the legal specifics but several Federation leaders can provide assistance with this, including Jim Omvig, Amy Phelps, Fred Schroeder and Edward Bell. If you are having problems getting a VR counselor to respect your informed choice, talk with your state president and try to get connected with one of these people. I have experience with this process because I was in the odd situation of trying to get my state to send me to LCB for training instead of CCB. They were willing to send me to CCB (where they had a contract) but not LCB. I wanted to go to LCB because I had been offered a chance to do some work with the blindness research institute at Louisiana Tech and I felt this opportunity was critical to my career development (and it turned out to be quite helpful after all). I had to make that case to my VR agency and though my counselor supported my decision, his supervisors did not and it took quite a lot of discussion and letters from Dr. Bell and from my state president, but they finally complied and I went to LCB. For most of you who are wanting to go to any NFB center rather than an in-state one (and not choosing between NFB centers like I did), there are many reasons you can give for the superiority of NFB centers: off-campus living, comprehensive training, blind mentors/instructors, use of sleepshades if you have partial sight, and probably others I am forgetting. Arielle From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:45:11 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:45:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: LOL! That's a good one! I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Liliya Asadullina To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > And I agree about adding in humour. > > On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > Hi Katie, > My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > well. I > understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > telling > people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > far as > I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > already > in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > It's > more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > grow up. > Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > yourself > and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > though > you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > Get > involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > them that > you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > do is > educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > get > out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > where > ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > example, I am > emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > I am > blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > get my > work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > taking > notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > with me. > I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > begin, and > will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > questions > for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > year. > Be confident in you! You've got this! > College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > for > who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > vision, then > they aren't worth being friends with... > People come to college from all different areas around the world > and > each student has something unique about them. So just reach > out to > those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > succeed. > I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > college as > well. > Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > Center > For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > college > and in myself too. > Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > away > from my home town and family. > Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > well! > If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > time > at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > Cheers! > Liliya > > On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > this fall. > I > was wondering how other people handled telling others they > couldn't see. > In > high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > again. Any > advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > mail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:46:40 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:46:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01cd6476$6a15bb20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> The WSB is NAC accredited. So you get what you ask for! I think it also depends on the person though. If they come with the attadude they want to learn, then they're going to learn wheater its from a light house, or a center! I tried the center approach, and personally it didn't work for me, so I'm dealing with our local light house, and the RT and I get along great! Does this make me not an Independent blind person, because I wasn't successful at the center? I was shown by my rehab teacher how to use a dust mop for the first time... something I was never taught at our center! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs That's what's going on. Their independence training was a scam, as well. My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive technology. When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) etc. If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress the need for such machines? Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and > try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular > organizational position. > Arielle > > On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try >> so >> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >> in >> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>> graduating from college. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> wrote: >>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>> > >>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>> would benefit from a complete training >>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>> employment-related assistance and >>> > >>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>> to an NFB center >>> > yourself? >>> > >>> > Peter Donahue >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> > >>> > >>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>> > She needs job training. >>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>> > Thanks, Joshua >>> > >>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> wrote: >>> >> Good morning everyone, >>> >> >>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>> >> and >>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>> blind persons it claims >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>> there for many years. At >>> >> one >>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>> Its former blind >>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>> reputation for condoning >>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>> abused, mistreated, and >>> >> in >>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>> than the Federal minimum >>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>> failed to address >>> >> these >>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>> agency's grounds to be >>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>> workshops they accredited to >>> >> pay >>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>> Federal minimum wage. >>> >> >>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>> >> there >>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>> for the Blind and the >>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>> NFB. While at AEB a >>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>> problems and that it needed >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>> that picket line. >>> >> >>> >> Judging from what I've read >>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>> center. These centers >>> >> are >>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>> best. >>> >> >>> >> Peter Donahue >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> >> >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Amber, >>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>> commend your efforts in >>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>> a good job for >>> >> someone >>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>> heard bad rumors about it. >>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>> that >>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>> clients it does. >>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>> job program? >>> >> >>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>> bother me. You are in >>> >> a >>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>> they need to account >>> >> for >>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>> to know where >>> >> everyone >>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>> Youwouldn't want your >>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>> saying, oh, we do not know >>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>> not. >>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>> would bother me. As a >>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>> my room. >>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>> cold snack when I wanted >>> >> to. >>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>> definitely nice. >>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>> late at home; between 7 >>> >> and >>> >> 8pm. >>> >> >>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>> decision to leave. So I wish >>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>> training or whatever you >>> >> need. >>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>> if you are a current >>> >> college student or recent grad. >>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>> it opens up more doors >>> >> to >>> >> you. >>> >> >>> >> Ashley >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list' >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Ian, >>> >> >>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>> Friday. Here is what >>> >> I >>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>> only facts and not color >>> >> those >>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>> will clearly state that >>> >> if >>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>> one should attend this >>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>> say no. But I am not >>> >> you >>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>> experienced here has >>> >> colored >>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>> >> >>> >> The facts: >>> >> >>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>> valuables go missing. >>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>> codes. (just one >>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>> wings, and though the >>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>> not mention this, except >>> >> this >>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>> by any kind of panels) >>> >> inside >>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>> splashed. I brought >>> >> this >>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>> mine is not the only >>> >> one >>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>> clients.) >>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>> building is full of >>> >> bugs. >>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>> bugs were found even >>> >> in >>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>> not leave food in >>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>> them etc.) >>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>> >> and >>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>> all except cafeteria >>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>> exist, but they do not work >>> >> very >>> >> well. >>> >> >>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>> talk about, but they >>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>> really are just normal >>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>> college dorm, except they >>> >> are >>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>> scaled down hugely. >>> >> So >>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>> could go to a dining >>> >> hall >>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>> meals at the times >>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>> that anyone can argue that >>> >> when >>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>> schedule, and while this is >>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>> that we can't even >>> >> have >>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>> may maintain the >>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>> >> >>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>> not affect anyone, but >>> >> I >>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>> would be doing a great >>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>> center. >>> >> >>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>> authority figure. He was >>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>> approaching the baggage claim >>> >> with >>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>> authority figure approached me >>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>> waist, hugged me to >>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>> female passenger who >>> >> had >>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>> control from there, but >>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>> and said, "How was your trip, >>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>> you're home!" >>> >> >>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>> beginning, should have >>> >> been >>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>> father, and possibly >>> >> even >>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>> minimally since my arrival at >>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>> >> what >>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>> regardless of setting. >>> >> >>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>> only you can decide that >>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>> man who did this to me was >>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>> reported multiple times >>> >> by >>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>> another, and still holds >>> >> >>> >> a >>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>> going on here that I am >>> >> unaware >>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> >> >>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>> regardless of that, I >>> >> could >>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>> >> >>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>> it does not, please know >>> >> that >>> >> I wish you all the best. >>> >> >>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> >> Impossible is not a word >>> >> It's just a reason >>> >> For someone not to try >>> >> >>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>> >> When they decide to take that step >>> >> Out on the water >>> >> It'll be alright >>> >> >>> >> Life is so much more >>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> >> You will find your way >>> >> If you keep believing" >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> >> Behalf >>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Ian, >>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>> to go there on to >>> >> stay >>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>> say is that LWSB has >>> >> made >>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>> think about visiting >>> >> there >>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>> an option to live off >>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>> sign in and sign out >>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>> sign in and sign out policy >>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>> however, this is know >>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>> everyone blind and >>> >> sighted has to do. >>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>> and frankly since you >>> >> have >>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>> it is a guarantied >>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>> start at 45,000 or more. >>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>> above LWSB now known as >>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>> changes under the new >>> >> director >>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>> As I said earlier, I >>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>> decision. >>> >> >>> >> Anmol >>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> make me sad. Perhaps >>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>> is vague, like a >>> >> breeze >>> >> among flowers. >>> >> Hellen Keller >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> >>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>> LWSB for one of their >>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>> general? >>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>> was reading the manual, >>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>> environment, even >>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>> instance, you have to >>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>> like that. Have any of >>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>> experiences were. Since >>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>> not as independent of an >>> >>> environment. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> >>> oo.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:50:26 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:50:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arielle, this post was very helpful, because I have a meeting with my Rehab counselor this Friday. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Many VR agencies will tell clients that they can only send them to > in-state or "in-contract" centers for training. However, this is only > partially true. VR agencies prefer to send clients to centers with > which they have established contracts, which are usually in-state > centers. But by law VR agencies are required to support a client's > choice of center if that choice is justified, even if the center is > out-of-state or out-of-contract. I don't know the legal specifics but > several Federation leaders can provide assistance with this, including > Jim Omvig, Amy Phelps, Fred Schroeder and Edward Bell. If you are > having problems getting a VR counselor to respect your informed > choice, talk with your state president and try to get connected with > one of these people. > I have experience with this process because I was in the odd situation > of trying to get my state to send me to LCB for training instead of > CCB. They were willing to send me to CCB (where they had a contract) > but not LCB. I wanted to go to LCB because I had been offered a chance > to do some work with the blindness research institute at Louisiana > Tech and I felt this opportunity was critical to my career development > (and it turned out to be quite helpful after all). I had to make that > case to my VR agency and though my counselor supported my decision, > his supervisors did not and it took quite a lot of discussion and > letters from Dr. Bell and from my state president, but they finally > complied and I went to LCB. For most of you who are wanting to go to > any NFB center rather than an in-state one (and not choosing between > NFB centers like I did), there are many reasons you can give for the > superiority of NFB centers: off-campus living, comprehensive training, > blind mentors/instructors, use of sleepshades if you have partial > sight, and probably others I am forgetting. > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:53:10 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:53:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <000d01cd6476$6a15bb20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000d01cd6476$6a15bb20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Our local lighthouse doesn't have that kind of training. As a matter of fact, all they do is make clothes and stuff for the military. I'm glad your state's lighthouse has the extra training! I'm basing this post on my tour there, in 2007. Things probably have changed. I hope so. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, RJ Sandefur wrote: > The WSB is NAC accredited. So you get what you ask for! I think it also > depends on the person though. If they come with the attadude they want to > learn, then they're going to learn wheater its from a light house, or a > center! I tried the center approach, and personally it didn't work for me, > so I'm dealing with our local light house, and the RT and I get along great! > > Does this make me not an Independent blind person, because I wasn't > successful at the center? I was shown by my rehab teacher how to use a dust > > mop for the first time... something I was never taught at our center! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > That's what's going on. > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > technology. > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > etc. > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > the need for such machines? > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>> try >>> so >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >>> in >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> graduating from college. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> employment-related assistance and >>>> > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>> to an NFB center >>>> > yourself? >>>> > >>>> > Peter Donahue >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> > She needs job training. >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> and >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>> there for many years. At >>>> >> one >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> Its former blind >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>> reputation for condoning >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> in >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>> failed to address >>>> >> these >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> pay >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> there >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>> for the Blind and the >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>> that picket line. >>>> >> >>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>> center. These centers >>>> >> are >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>> best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber, >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>> commend your efforts in >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>> a good job for >>>> >> someone >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>> that >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>> clients it does. >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>> job program? >>>> >> >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>> bother me. You are in >>>> >> a >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>> they need to account >>>> >> for >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>> to know where >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>> not. >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>> would bother me. As a >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>> my room. >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> to. >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>> definitely nice. >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> and >>>> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>> training or whatever you >>>> >> need. >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>> if you are a current >>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>> it opens up more doors >>>> >> to >>>> >> you. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list' >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> I >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>> only facts and not color >>>> >> those >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>> will clearly state that >>>> >> if >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>> one should attend this >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>> say no. But I am not >>>> >> you >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>> experienced here has >>>> >> colored >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >>>> >> The facts: >>>> >> >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>> valuables go missing. >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>> codes. (just one >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>> wings, and though the >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>> not mention this, except >>>> >> this >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> inside >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>> splashed. I brought >>>> >> this >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>> mine is not the only >>>> >> one >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>> clients.) >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>> building is full of >>>> >> bugs. >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>> bugs were found even >>>> >> in >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>> not leave food in >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>> them etc.) >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> and >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>> all except cafeteria >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> very >>>> >> well. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>> talk about, but they >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>> really are just normal >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>> college dorm, except they >>>> >> are >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> So >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining >>>> >> hall >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>> meals at the times >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> when >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>> that we can't even >>>> >> have >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>> may maintain the >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>> >> >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> I >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>> would be doing a great >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>> center. >>>> >> >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>> authority figure. He was >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> with >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> authority figure approached me >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who >>>> >> had >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>> you're home!" >>>> >> >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>> beginning, should have >>>> >> been >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>> father, and possibly >>>> >> even >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> what >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>> only you can decide that >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>> man who did this to me was >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>> reported multiple times >>>> >> by >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds >>>> >> >>>> >> a >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am >>>> >> unaware >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>> regardless of that, I >>>> >> could >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>> it does not, please know >>>> >> that >>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> Out on the water >>>> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >>>> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> You will find your way >>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >> Behalf >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>> to go there on to >>>> >> stay >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> made >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>> think about visiting >>>> >> there >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>> an option to live off >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>> sign in and sign out >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>> however, this is know >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>> everyone blind and >>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>> and frankly since you >>>> >> have >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>> it is a guarantied >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>> changes under the new >>>> >> director >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>> decision. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anmol >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>> is vague, like a >>>> >> breeze >>>> >> among flowers. >>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >>> Hi >>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>> LWSB for one of their >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>> general? >>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>> was reading the manual, >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>> environment, even >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>> instance, you have to >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>> like that. Have any of >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since >>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>> not as independent of an >>>> >>> environment. >>>> >>> Ian >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Jul 17 23:53:42 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342569222.93739.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Are you an adult? Do you have the ability to make your own decisions? If so then that person can recruit you all they want, but it is your decision to wheather you want to join ACB or not. It is not World Services for the Blind then LWSB to stop their students from recruiting for the ACB or the NFB. Students who are member of the NFB have just as much of a right to recruit their fellow students as members who belong to the ACB. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:23 PM > Anmol, they wouldn't stop Alan Ramos > from the California Council from > recruiting. > That was the guy that tried to recruit me. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > wrote: > > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock > chapter of the NFB > > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if > according to you they try so > > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they > allow the NFB meet in > > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does > not meet there? > > > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > > >> From: Joshua Lester > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > >> > >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >> graduating from college. > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> wrote: > >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >> > > >> >     Let' sleet her decide > if she > >> would benefit from a complete training > >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have > >> employment-related assistance and > >> > > >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have > you been > >> to an NFB center > >> > yourself? > >> > > >> > Peter Donahue > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list" > >> > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> > > >> > > >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. > >> > She needs job training. > >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > >> > Thanks, Joshua > >> > > >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> wrote: > >> >> Good morning everyone, > >> >> > >> >>     LWSB, formerly the > Arkansas > >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >> >> and > >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment > of the > >> blind persons it claims > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have > existed > >> there for many years. At > >> >> one > >> >> time it was accredited by the National > >> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically > Handicapped (NAC.) > >> Its former blind > >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had > a > >> reputation for condoning > >> >> practices that often led to blind persons > being > >> abused, mistreated, and > >> >> in > >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid > less > >> than the Federal minimum > >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of > Accreditation" > >> failed to address > >> >> these > >> >> issues. For example the standards called > for the > >> agency's grounds to be > >> >> pleasant but did not require the > sheltered > >> workshops they accredited to > >> >> pay > >> >> all employees including the blind > employees the > >> Federal minimum wage. > >> >> > >> >>     In 1985 NAC held > its annual > >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >> >> there > >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas > Enterprises > >> for the Blind and the > >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were > picketed by the > >> NFB. While at AEB a > >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there > were > >> problems and that it needed > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I > were on > >> that picket line. > >> >> > >> >>     Judging from what > I've read > >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at > agencies such > >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB > training > >> center. These centers > >> >> are > >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. > All the > >> best. > >> >> > >> >> Peter Donahue > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list" > >> >> > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Amber, > >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first > that I > >> commend your efforts in > >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I > think you did > >> a good job for > >> >> someone > >> >> who did not have a good experience.  > I've also > >> heard bad rumors about it. > >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real > surprised > >> that > >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting > the > >> clients it does. > >> >> Which program were you in? Independent > living? or a > >> job program? > >> >> > >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out > doesn't > >> bother me. You are in > >> >> a > >> >> training setting and with this litigious > society, > >> they need to account > >> >> for > >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? > They need > >> to know where > >> >> everyone > >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are > never found. > >> Youwouldn't want your > >> >> parents or friends or family calling and > them > >> saying, oh, we do not know > >> >> where your son is;  he may be on > campus or > >> not. > >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or > fridge > >> would bother me. As a > >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own > fridge in > >> my room. > >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold > drink or > >> cold snack when I wanted > >> >> to. > >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, > this was > >> definitely nice. > >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that > I eat > >> late at home; between 7 > >> >> and > >> >> 8pm. > >> >> > >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good > personal > >> decision to leave. So I wish > >> >> you luck in your next decision to find > decent > >> training or whatever you > >> >> need. > >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm > not sure > >> if you are a current > >> >> college student or recent grad. > >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you > can as > >> it opens up more doors > >> >> to > >> >> you. > >> >> > >> >> Ashley > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list' > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Ian, > >> >> > >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to > leave on > >> Friday.  Here is what > >> >> I > >> >> have experienced.  I will do my best > to give > >> only facts and not color > >> >> those > >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I > begin, I > >> will clearly state that > >> >> if > >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to > whether or not > >> one should attend this > >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to > >> say no.  But I am not > >> >> you > >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I > have > >> experienced here has > >> >> colored > >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >> >> > >> >> The facts: > >> >> > >> >> *Several students (including myself) have > had > >> valuables go missing. > >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and > safety > >> codes. (just one > >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had > chicken > >> wings, and though the > >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not.  > I would > >> not mention this, except > >> >> this > >> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >> >> *The showers have light bulbs  (not > protected > >> by any kind of panels) > >> >> inside > >> >> the actual stall where water could be > accidentally > >> splashed.  I brought > >> >> this > >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over > mine, but > >> mine is not the only > >> >> one > >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed > by other > >> clients.) > >> >> *Despite several complaints from many > clients, the > >> building is full of > >> >> bugs. > >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to > spray, but > >> bugs were found even > >> >> in > >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. > (read as, do > >> not leave food in > >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food > still on > >> them etc.) > >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >> >> and > >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or > nothing at > >> all except cafeteria > >> >> food.  There are microwaves that > physically > >> exist, but they do not work > >> >> very > >> >> well. > >> >> > >> >> Now I can say that there are other things > I could > >> talk about, but they > >> >> probably come down to personal preference > and > >> really are just normal > >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on > any > >> college dorm, except they > >> >> are > >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that > everything is > >> scaled down hugely. > >> >> So > >> >> while, for example, on most college > campuses, you > >> could go to a dining > >> >> hall > >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not > come to > >> meals at the times > >> >> specified, you don't eat meals.  I am > sure > >> that anyone can argue that > >> >> when > >> >> in school, you have to work with a > particular > >> schedule, and while this is > >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with > the fact > >> that we can't even > >> >> have > >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms > so that we > >> may maintain the > >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for > us. > >> >> > >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing > and may > >> not affect anyone, but > >> >> I > >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did > not, I > >> would be doing a great > >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending > this > >> center. > >> >> > >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by > an > >> authority figure.  He was > >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > >> approaching the baggage claim > >> >> with > >> >> a female passenger from my flight.  > This > >> authority figure approached me > >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm > around my > >> waist, hugged me to > >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and > told the > >> female passenger who > >> >> had > >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it > under > >> control from there, but > >> >> thanks."  After which, he looked down > at me > >> and said, "How was your trip, > >> >> Punkin?  We've missed you!  > We're so glad > >> you're home!" > >> >> > >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in > the > >> beginning, should have > >> >> been > >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough > to be my > >> father, and possibly > >> >> even > >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with > me > >> minimally since my arrival at > >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc.  > Basically, > >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> >> what > >> >> one would call professional or even > acceptable > >> regardless of setting. > >> >> > >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this > center; > >> only you can decide that > >> >> for yourself.  What I can tell you is > that the > >> man who did this to me was > >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, > has been > >> reported multiple times > >> >> by > >> >> other females that he has violated in one > way or > >> another, and still holds > >> >> > >> >> a > >> >> job here.  I believe there is > something big > >> going on here that I am > >> >> unaware > >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >> >> > >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people > here, but > >> regardless of that, I > >> >> could > >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >> >> > >> >> I hope this helps you make your > decision.  If > >> it does not, please know > >> >> that > >> >> I wish you all the best. > >> >> > >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >> >> Impossible is not a word > >> >> It's just a reason > >> >> For someone not to try > >> >> > >> >> Everybody's scared to death > >> >> When they decide to take that step > >> >> Out on the water > >> >> It'll be alright > >> >> > >> >> Life is so much more > >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >> >> You will find your way > >> >> If you keep believing" > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> On > >> >> Behalf > >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Ian, > >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, > but I used > >> to go there on to > >> >> stay > >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only > thing I can > >> say is that LWSB has > >> >> made > >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I > would > >> think about visiting > >> >> there > >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They > do have > >> an option to live off > >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a > >> sign in and sign out > >> >> policy  after class time. Now they > may have > >> sign in and sign out policy > >> >> during class time to keep count of > attendance, > >> however, this is know > >> >> different signing in and signing out of > work which > >> everyone blind and > >> >> sighted has to do. > >> >> The IRS program is one of the best > programs there > >> and frankly since you > >> >> have > >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS > offices, > >> it is a guarantied > >> >> employment after completing the program > and they > >> start at 45,000 or more. > >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as > I said > >> above LWSB now known as > >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot > of > >> changes under the new > >> >> director > >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the > food is now. > >> As I said earlier, I > >> >> would make a visit there before making any > kind of > >> decision. > >> >> > >> >> Anmol > >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and > they never > >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it > >> is vague, like a > >> >> breeze > >> >> among flowers. > >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students" > >> > >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >> >>> Hi > >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have > attended > >> LWSB for one of their > >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB > in > >> general? > >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS > programs, and > >> was reading the manual, > >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and > structured > >> environment, even > >> >>> though most of the participants are > adults. For > >> instance, you have to > >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere > and things > >> like that. Have any of > >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear > what your > >> experiences were. Since > >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like > it’s > >> not as independent of an > >> >>> environment. > >> >>> Ian > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get > >> your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >> >>> oo.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:57:23 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:57:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000d01cd6476$6a15bb20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <003501cd6477$e98c3c20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Sad. Our light house offers job placement courses as well. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Our local lighthouse doesn't have that kind of training. As a matter of fact, all they do is make clothes and stuff for the military. I'm glad your state's lighthouse has the extra training! I'm basing this post on my tour there, in 2007. Things probably have changed. I hope so. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, RJ Sandefur wrote: > The WSB is NAC accredited. So you get what you ask for! I think it also > depends on the person though. If they come with the attadude they want to > learn, then they're going to learn wheater its from a light house, or a > center! I tried the center approach, and personally it didn't work for me, > so I'm dealing with our local light house, and the RT and I get along > great! > > Does this make me not an Independent blind person, because I wasn't > successful at the center? I was shown by my rehab teacher how to use a > dust > > mop for the first time... something I was never taught at our center! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > That's what's going on. > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > technology. > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > etc. > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > the need for such machines? > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>> try >>> so >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >>> in >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> graduating from college. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> employment-related assistance and >>>> > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>> to an NFB center >>>> > yourself? >>>> > >>>> > Peter Donahue >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> > She needs job training. >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> and >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>> there for many years. At >>>> >> one >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> Its former blind >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>> reputation for condoning >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> in >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>> failed to address >>>> >> these >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> pay >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> there >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>> for the Blind and the >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>> that picket line. >>>> >> >>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>> center. These centers >>>> >> are >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>> best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber, >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>> commend your efforts in >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>> a good job for >>>> >> someone >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>> that >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>> clients it does. >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>> job program? >>>> >> >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>> bother me. You are in >>>> >> a >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>> they need to account >>>> >> for >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>> to know where >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>> not. >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>> would bother me. As a >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>> my room. >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> to. >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>> definitely nice. >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> and >>>> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>> training or whatever you >>>> >> need. >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>> if you are a current >>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>> it opens up more doors >>>> >> to >>>> >> you. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list' >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> I >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>> only facts and not color >>>> >> those >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>> will clearly state that >>>> >> if >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>> one should attend this >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>> say no. But I am not >>>> >> you >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>> experienced here has >>>> >> colored >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >>>> >> The facts: >>>> >> >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>> valuables go missing. >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>> codes. (just one >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>> wings, and though the >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>> not mention this, except >>>> >> this >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> inside >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>> splashed. I brought >>>> >> this >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>> mine is not the only >>>> >> one >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>> clients.) >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>> building is full of >>>> >> bugs. >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>> bugs were found even >>>> >> in >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>> not leave food in >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>> them etc.) >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> and >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>> all except cafeteria >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> very >>>> >> well. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>> talk about, but they >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>> really are just normal >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>> college dorm, except they >>>> >> are >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> So >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining >>>> >> hall >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>> meals at the times >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> when >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>> that we can't even >>>> >> have >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>> may maintain the >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>> >> >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> I >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>> would be doing a great >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>> center. >>>> >> >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>> authority figure. He was >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> with >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> authority figure approached me >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who >>>> >> had >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>> you're home!" >>>> >> >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>> beginning, should have >>>> >> been >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>> father, and possibly >>>> >> even >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> what >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>> only you can decide that >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>> man who did this to me was >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>> reported multiple times >>>> >> by >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds >>>> >> >>>> >> a >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am >>>> >> unaware >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>> regardless of that, I >>>> >> could >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>> it does not, please know >>>> >> that >>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> Out on the water >>>> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >>>> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> You will find your way >>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >> Behalf >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>> to go there on to >>>> >> stay >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> made >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>> think about visiting >>>> >> there >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>> an option to live off >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>> sign in and sign out >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>> however, this is know >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>> everyone blind and >>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>> and frankly since you >>>> >> have >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>> it is a guarantied >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>> changes under the new >>>> >> director >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>> decision. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anmol >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>> is vague, like a >>>> >> breeze >>>> >> among flowers. >>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >>> Hi >>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>> LWSB for one of their >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>> general? >>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>> was reading the manual, >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>> environment, even >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>> instance, you have to >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>> like that. Have any of >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since >>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>> not as independent of an >>>> >>> environment. >>>> >>> Ian >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 17 23:59:05 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:59:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342569222.93739.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342569222.93739.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You're right. The only issue was that he was doing it during classtime, so he was distracting other students from their studies. He should've done this stuff after class. Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Are you an adult? Do you have the ability to make your own decisions? If so > then that person can recruit you all they want, but it is your decision to > wheather you want to join ACB or not. It is not World Services for the Blind > then LWSB to stop their students from recruiting for the ACB or the NFB. > Students who are member of the NFB have just as much of a right to recruit > their fellow students as members who belong to the ACB. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:23 PM >> Anmol, they wouldn't stop Alan Ramos >> from the California Council from >> recruiting. >> That was the guy that tried to recruit me. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >> wrote: >> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >> chapter of the NFB >> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >> according to you they try so >> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >> allow the NFB meet in >> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >> not meet there? >> > >> > Anmol >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >> vague, like a breeze >> > among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> >> graduating from college. >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> wrote: >> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> >> > >> >> > Let' sleet her decide >> if she >> >> would benefit from a complete training >> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> >> employment-related assistance and >> >> > >> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >> you been >> >> to an NFB center >> >> > yourself? >> >> > >> >> > Peter Donahue >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> >> list" >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> >> > She needs job training. >> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> >> > Thanks, Joshua >> >> > >> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >> >> >> LWSB, formerly the >> Arkansas >> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> >> and >> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >> of the >> >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >> existed >> >> there for many years. At >> >> >> one >> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >> Handicapped (NAC.) >> >> Its former blind >> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >> a >> >> reputation for condoning >> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >> being >> >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> >> in >> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >> less >> >> than the Federal minimum >> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >> Accreditation" >> >> failed to address >> >> >> these >> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >> for the >> >> agency's grounds to be >> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >> sheltered >> >> workshops they accredited to >> >> >> pay >> >> >> all employees including the blind >> employees the >> >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1985 NAC held >> its annual >> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> >> there >> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >> Enterprises >> >> for the Blind and the >> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >> picketed by the >> >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >> were >> >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >> were on >> >> that picket line. >> >> >> >> >> >> Judging from what >> I've read >> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >> agencies such >> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >> training >> >> center. These centers >> >> >> are >> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >> All the >> >> best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list" >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >> that I >> >> commend your efforts in >> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >> think you did >> >> a good job for >> >> >> someone >> >> >> who did not have a good experience. >> I've also >> >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >> surprised >> >> that >> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >> the >> >> clients it does. >> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >> living? or a >> >> job program? >> >> >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >> doesn't >> >> bother me. You are in >> >> >> a >> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >> society, >> >> they need to account >> >> >> for >> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >> They need >> >> to know where >> >> >> everyone >> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >> never found. >> >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >> them >> >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> >> where your son is; he may be on >> campus or >> >> not. >> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >> fridge >> >> would bother me. As a >> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >> fridge in >> >> my room. >> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >> drink or >> >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> >> to. >> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >> this was >> >> definitely nice. >> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >> I eat >> >> late at home; between 7 >> >> >> and >> >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >> personal >> >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >> decent >> >> training or whatever you >> >> >> need. >> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >> not sure >> >> if you are a current >> >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >> can as >> >> it opens up more doors >> >> >> to >> >> >> you. >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list' >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >> leave on >> >> Friday. Here is what >> >> >> I >> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best >> to give >> >> only facts and not color >> >> >> those >> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >> begin, I >> >> will clearly state that >> >> >> if >> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >> whether or not >> >> one should attend this >> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to >> >> say no. But I am not >> >> >> you >> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >> have >> >> experienced here has >> >> >> colored >> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >> had >> >> valuables go missing. >> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >> safety >> >> codes. (just one >> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >> chicken >> >> wings, and though the >> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. >> I would >> >> not mention this, except >> >> >> this >> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >> protected >> >> by any kind of panels) >> >> >> inside >> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >> accidentally >> >> splashed. I brought >> >> >> this >> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >> mine, but >> >> mine is not the only >> >> >> one >> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >> by other >> >> clients.) >> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >> clients, the >> >> building is full of >> >> >> bugs. >> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >> spray, but >> >> bugs were found even >> >> >> in >> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >> (read as, do >> >> not leave food in >> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >> still on >> >> them etc.) >> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> >> and >> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >> nothing at >> >> all except cafeteria >> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >> physically >> >> exist, but they do not work >> >> >> very >> >> >> well. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >> I could >> >> talk about, but they >> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >> and >> >> really are just normal >> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >> any >> >> college dorm, except they >> >> >> are >> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >> everything is >> >> scaled down hugely. >> >> >> So >> >> >> while, for example, on most college >> campuses, you >> >> could go to a dining >> >> >> hall >> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >> come to >> >> meals at the times >> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >> sure >> >> that anyone can argue that >> >> >> when >> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >> particular >> >> schedule, and while this is >> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >> the fact >> >> that we can't even >> >> >> have >> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >> so that we >> >> may maintain the >> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >> us. >> >> >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >> and may >> >> not affect anyone, but >> >> >> I >> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >> not, I >> >> would be doing a great >> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >> this >> >> center. >> >> >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >> an >> >> authority figure. He was >> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> >> with >> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. >> This >> >> authority figure approached me >> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >> around my >> >> waist, hugged me to >> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >> told the >> >> female passenger who >> >> >> had >> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >> under >> >> control from there, but >> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down >> at me >> >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! >> We're so glad >> >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >> the >> >> beginning, should have >> >> >> been >> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >> to be my >> >> father, and possibly >> >> >> even >> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >> me >> >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >> Basically, >> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> >> what >> >> >> one would call professional or even >> acceptable >> >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >> center; >> >> only you can decide that >> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >> that the >> >> man who did this to me was >> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >> has been >> >> reported multiple times >> >> >> by >> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >> way or >> >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> job here. I believe there is >> something big >> >> going on here that I am >> >> >> unaware >> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >> here, but >> >> regardless of that, I >> >> >> could >> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >> decision. If >> >> it does not, please know >> >> >> that >> >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> >> It's just a reason >> >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >> >> Out on the water >> >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> >> You will find your way >> >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> >> Behalf >> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> >> list >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >> but I used >> >> to go there on to >> >> >> stay >> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >> thing I can >> >> say is that LWSB has >> >> >> made >> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >> would >> >> think about visiting >> >> >> there >> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >> do have >> >> an option to live off >> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a >> >> sign in and sign out >> >> >> policy after class time. Now they >> may have >> >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> >> during class time to keep count of >> attendance, >> >> however, this is know >> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >> work which >> >> everyone blind and >> >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >> programs there >> >> and frankly since you >> >> >> have >> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >> offices, >> >> it is a guarantied >> >> >> employment after completing the program >> and they >> >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >> I said >> >> above LWSB now known as >> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >> of >> >> changes under the new >> >> >> director >> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >> food is now. >> >> As I said earlier, I >> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >> kind of >> >> decision. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >> they never >> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >> times; but it >> >> is vague, like a >> >> >> breeze >> >> >> among flowers. >> >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students" >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >> >>> Hi >> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have >> attended >> >> LWSB for one of their >> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >> in >> >> general? >> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS >> programs, and >> >> was reading the manual, >> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >> structured >> >> environment, even >> >> >>> though most of the participants are >> adults. For >> >> instance, you have to >> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >> and things >> >> like that. Have any of >> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear >> what your >> >> experiences were. Since >> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like >> it’s >> >> not as independent of an >> >> >>> environment. >> >> >>> Ian >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >> >>> oo.com >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your >> >> account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your >> >> account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 00:02:48 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:02:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <003501cd6477$e98c3c20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000d01cd6476$6a15bb20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <003501cd6477$e98c3c20$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Wow! I think I want to move to Florida! More Gospel music opportunities anyway! Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Sad. Our light house offers job placement courses as well. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > Our local lighthouse doesn't have that kind of training. > As a matter of fact, all they do is make clothes and stuff for the > military. > I'm glad your state's lighthouse has the extra training! > I'm basing this post on my tour there, in 2007. > Things probably have changed. > I hope so. > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> The WSB is NAC accredited. So you get what you ask for! I think it also >> depends on the person though. If they come with the attadude they want to >> learn, then they're going to learn wheater its from a light house, or a >> center! I tried the center approach, and personally it didn't work for >> me, >> so I'm dealing with our local light house, and the RT and I get along >> great! >> >> Does this make me not an Independent blind person, because I wasn't >> successful at the center? I was shown by my rehab teacher how to use a >> dust >> >> mop for the first time... something I was never taught at our center! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 00:10:16 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any organization. They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit hall at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some on this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the facts. The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is there now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an employment track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a training center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an independent living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job in providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I personally understand the value of how independent living training is important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do as well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of independent training for a blind person. To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the starting salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to decide if you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > I suspect that certain students or > staff at WSB are ACB members and > try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a > particular > organizational position. > Arielle > > On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > wrote: > > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock > chapter of the NFB > > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if > according to you they try so > > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they > allow the NFB meet in > > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does > not meet there? > > > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > > >> From: Joshua Lester > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > >> > >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >> graduating from college. > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> wrote: > >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >> > > >> >     Let' sleet her decide if she > >> would benefit from a complete training > >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have > >> employment-related assistance and > >> > > >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have > you been > >> to an NFB center > >> > yourself? > >> > > >> > Peter Donahue > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list" > >> > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> > > >> > > >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. > >> > She needs job training. > >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > >> > Thanks, Joshua > >> > > >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> wrote: > >> >> Good morning everyone, > >> >> > >> >>     LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >> >> and > >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment > of the > >> blind persons it claims > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have > existed > >> there for many years. At > >> >> one > >> >> time it was accredited by the National > >> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically > Handicapped (NAC.) > >> Its former blind > >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had > a > >> reputation for condoning > >> >> practices that often led to blind persons > being > >> abused, mistreated, and > >> >> in > >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid > less > >> than the Federal minimum > >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of > Accreditation" > >> failed to address > >> >> these > >> >> issues. For example the standards called > for the > >> agency's grounds to be > >> >> pleasant but did not require the > sheltered > >> workshops they accredited to > >> >> pay > >> >> all employees including the blind > employees the > >> Federal minimum wage. > >> >> > >> >>     In 1985 NAC held its annual > >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >> >> there > >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas > Enterprises > >> for the Blind and the > >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were > picketed by the > >> NFB. While at AEB a > >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there > were > >> problems and that it needed > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I > were on > >> that picket line. > >> >> > >> >>     Judging from what I've read > >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at > agencies such > >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB > training > >> center. These centers > >> >> are > >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. > All the > >> best. > >> >> > >> >> Peter Donahue > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list" > >> >> > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Amber, > >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first > that I > >> commend your efforts in > >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I > think you did > >> a good job for > >> >> someone > >> >> who did not have a good experience.  I've > also > >> heard bad rumors about it. > >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real > surprised > >> that > >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting > the > >> clients it does. > >> >> Which program were you in? Independent > living? or a > >> job program? > >> >> > >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out > doesn't > >> bother me. You are in > >> >> a > >> >> training setting and with this litigious > society, > >> they need to account > >> >> for > >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? > They need > >> to know where > >> >> everyone > >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are > never found. > >> Youwouldn't want your > >> >> parents or friends or family calling and > them > >> saying, oh, we do not know > >> >> where your son is;  he may be on campus > or > >> not. > >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or > fridge > >> would bother me. As a > >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own > fridge in > >> my room. > >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold > drink or > >> cold snack when I wanted > >> >> to. > >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, > this was > >> definitely nice. > >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that > I eat > >> late at home; between 7 > >> >> and > >> >> 8pm. > >> >> > >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good > personal > >> decision to leave. So I wish > >> >> you luck in your next decision to find > decent > >> training or whatever you > >> >> need. > >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm > not sure > >> if you are a current > >> >> college student or recent grad. > >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you > can as > >> it opens up more doors > >> >> to > >> >> you. > >> >> > >> >> Ashley > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list' > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Ian, > >> >> > >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to > leave on > >> Friday.  Here is what > >> >> I > >> >> have experienced.  I will do my best to > give > >> only facts and not color > >> >> those > >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I > begin, I > >> will clearly state that > >> >> if > >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to > whether or not > >> one should attend this > >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to > >> say no.  But I am not > >> >> you > >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I > have > >> experienced here has > >> >> colored > >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >> >> > >> >> The facts: > >> >> > >> >> *Several students (including myself) have > had > >> valuables go missing. > >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and > safety > >> codes. (just one > >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had > chicken > >> wings, and though the > >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not.  I > would > >> not mention this, except > >> >> this > >> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >> >> *The showers have light bulbs  (not > protected > >> by any kind of panels) > >> >> inside > >> >> the actual stall where water could be > accidentally > >> splashed.  I brought > >> >> this > >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over > mine, but > >> mine is not the only > >> >> one > >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed > by other > >> clients.) > >> >> *Despite several complaints from many > clients, the > >> building is full of > >> >> bugs. > >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to > spray, but > >> bugs were found even > >> >> in > >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. > (read as, do > >> not leave food in > >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food > still on > >> them etc.) > >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >> >> and > >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or > nothing at > >> all except cafeteria > >> >> food.  There are microwaves that > physically > >> exist, but they do not work > >> >> very > >> >> well. > >> >> > >> >> Now I can say that there are other things > I could > >> talk about, but they > >> >> probably come down to personal preference > and > >> really are just normal > >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on > any > >> college dorm, except they > >> >> are > >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that > everything is > >> scaled down hugely. > >> >> So > >> >> while, for example, on most college > campuses, you > >> could go to a dining > >> >> hall > >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not > come to > >> meals at the times > >> >> specified, you don't eat meals.  I am > sure > >> that anyone can argue that > >> >> when > >> >> in school, you have to work with a > particular > >> schedule, and while this is > >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with > the fact > >> that we can't even > >> >> have > >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms > so that we > >> may maintain the > >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for > us. > >> >> > >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing > and may > >> not affect anyone, but > >> >> I > >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did > not, I > >> would be doing a great > >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending > this > >> center. > >> >> > >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by > an > >> authority figure.  He was > >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > >> approaching the baggage claim > >> >> with > >> >> a female passenger from my flight.  This > >> authority figure approached me > >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm > around my > >> waist, hugged me to > >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and > told the > >> female passenger who > >> >> had > >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it > under > >> control from there, but > >> >> thanks."  After which, he looked down at > me > >> and said, "How was your trip, > >> >> Punkin?  We've missed you!  We're so > glad > >> you're home!" > >> >> > >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in > the > >> beginning, should have > >> >> been > >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough > to be my > >> father, and possibly > >> >> even > >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with > me > >> minimally since my arrival at > >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc.  > Basically, > >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> >> what > >> >> one would call professional or even > acceptable > >> regardless of setting. > >> >> > >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this > center; > >> only you can decide that > >> >> for yourself.  What I can tell you is > that the > >> man who did this to me was > >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, > has been > >> reported multiple times > >> >> by > >> >> other females that he has violated in one > way or > >> another, and still holds > >> >> > >> >> a > >> >> job here.  I believe there is something > big > >> going on here that I am > >> >> unaware > >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >> >> > >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people > here, but > >> regardless of that, I > >> >> could > >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >> >> > >> >> I hope this helps you make your > decision.  If > >> it does not, please know > >> >> that > >> >> I wish you all the best. > >> >> > >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >> >> Impossible is not a word > >> >> It's just a reason > >> >> For someone not to try > >> >> > >> >> Everybody's scared to death > >> >> When they decide to take that step > >> >> Out on the water > >> >> It'll be alright > >> >> > >> >> Life is so much more > >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >> >> You will find your way > >> >> If you keep believing" > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> On > >> >> Behalf > >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Ian, > >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, > but I used > >> to go there on to > >> >> stay > >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only > thing I can > >> say is that LWSB has > >> >> made > >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I > would > >> think about visiting > >> >> there > >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They > do have > >> an option to live off > >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a > >> sign in and sign out > >> >> policy  after class time. Now they may > have > >> sign in and sign out policy > >> >> during class time to keep count of > attendance, > >> however, this is know > >> >> different signing in and signing out of > work which > >> everyone blind and > >> >> sighted has to do. > >> >> The IRS program is one of the best > programs there > >> and frankly since you > >> >> have > >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS > offices, > >> it is a guarantied > >> >> employment after completing the program > and they > >> start at 45,000 or more. > >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as > I said > >> above LWSB now known as > >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot > of > >> changes under the new > >> >> director > >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the > food is now. > >> As I said earlier, I > >> >> would make a visit there before making any > kind of > >> decision. > >> >> > >> >> Anmol > >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and > they never > >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it > >> is vague, like a > >> >> breeze > >> >> among flowers. > >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students" > >> > >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >> >>> Hi > >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have > attended > >> LWSB for one of their > >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB > in > >> general? > >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS > programs, and > >> was reading the manual, > >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and > structured > >> environment, even > >> >>> though most of the participants are > adults. For > >> instance, you have to > >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere > and things > >> like that. Have any of > >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear > what your > >> experiences were. Since > >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like > it’s > >> not as independent of an > >> >>> environment. > >> >>> Ian > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get > >> your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >> >>> oo.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 00:15:55 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:15:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Some of the things she mentioned were going on, when I was there. I'd say this, if the NFB centers concentrated on doing both independent living, and also have a separate employment training program, they'd get more support from Rehab. The only problem is the funding. Where will it come from? Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any organization. > They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit hall > at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some on > this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the > comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the > facts. > The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is there > now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into > consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an employment > track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a training > center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an independent > living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job in > providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I > personally understand the value of how independent living training is > important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do as > well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to > largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of > independent training for a blind person. > To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the starting > salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to decide if > you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean > building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >> I suspect that certain students or >> staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >> particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >> wrote: >> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >> chapter of the NFB >> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >> according to you they try so >> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >> allow the NFB meet in >> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >> not meet there? >> > >> > Anmol >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >> vague, like a breeze >> > among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> >> graduating from college. >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> wrote: >> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> >> > >> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >> >> would benefit from a complete training >> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> >> employment-related assistance and >> >> > >> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >> you been >> >> to an NFB center >> >> > yourself? >> >> > >> >> > Peter Donahue >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> >> list" >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> >> > She needs job training. >> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> >> > Thanks, Joshua >> >> > >> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> >> and >> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >> of the >> >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >> existed >> >> there for many years. At >> >> >> one >> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >> Handicapped (NAC.) >> >> Its former blind >> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >> a >> >> reputation for condoning >> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >> being >> >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> >> in >> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >> less >> >> than the Federal minimum >> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >> Accreditation" >> >> failed to address >> >> >> these >> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >> for the >> >> agency's grounds to be >> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >> sheltered >> >> workshops they accredited to >> >> >> pay >> >> >> all employees including the blind >> employees the >> >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> >> there >> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >> Enterprises >> >> for the Blind and the >> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >> picketed by the >> >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >> were >> >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >> were on >> >> that picket line. >> >> >> >> >> >> Judging from what I've read >> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >> agencies such >> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >> training >> >> center. These centers >> >> >> are >> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >> All the >> >> best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list" >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >> that I >> >> commend your efforts in >> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >> think you did >> >> a good job for >> >> >> someone >> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >> also >> >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >> surprised >> >> that >> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >> the >> >> clients it does. >> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >> living? or a >> >> job program? >> >> >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >> doesn't >> >> bother me. You are in >> >> >> a >> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >> society, >> >> they need to account >> >> >> for >> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >> They need >> >> to know where >> >> >> everyone >> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >> never found. >> >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >> them >> >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >> or >> >> not. >> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >> fridge >> >> would bother me. As a >> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >> fridge in >> >> my room. >> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >> drink or >> >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> >> to. >> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >> this was >> >> definitely nice. >> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >> I eat >> >> late at home; between 7 >> >> >> and >> >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >> personal >> >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >> decent >> >> training or whatever you >> >> >> need. >> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >> not sure >> >> if you are a current >> >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >> can as >> >> it opens up more doors >> >> >> to >> >> >> you. >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list' >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >> leave on >> >> Friday. Here is what >> >> >> I >> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >> give >> >> only facts and not color >> >> >> those >> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >> begin, I >> >> will clearly state that >> >> >> if >> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >> whether or not >> >> one should attend this >> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to >> >> say no. But I am not >> >> >> you >> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >> have >> >> experienced here has >> >> >> colored >> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >> had >> >> valuables go missing. >> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >> safety >> >> codes. (just one >> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >> chicken >> >> wings, and though the >> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >> would >> >> not mention this, except >> >> >> this >> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >> protected >> >> by any kind of panels) >> >> >> inside >> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >> accidentally >> >> splashed. I brought >> >> >> this >> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >> mine, but >> >> mine is not the only >> >> >> one >> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >> by other >> >> clients.) >> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >> clients, the >> >> building is full of >> >> >> bugs. >> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >> spray, but >> >> bugs were found even >> >> >> in >> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >> (read as, do >> >> not leave food in >> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >> still on >> >> them etc.) >> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> >> and >> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >> nothing at >> >> all except cafeteria >> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >> physically >> >> exist, but they do not work >> >> >> very >> >> >> well. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >> I could >> >> talk about, but they >> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >> and >> >> really are just normal >> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >> any >> >> college dorm, except they >> >> >> are >> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >> everything is >> >> scaled down hugely. >> >> >> So >> >> >> while, for example, on most college >> campuses, you >> >> could go to a dining >> >> >> hall >> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >> come to >> >> meals at the times >> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >> sure >> >> that anyone can argue that >> >> >> when >> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >> particular >> >> schedule, and while this is >> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >> the fact >> >> that we can't even >> >> >> have >> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >> so that we >> >> may maintain the >> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >> us. >> >> >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >> and may >> >> not affect anyone, but >> >> >> I >> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >> not, I >> >> would be doing a great >> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >> this >> >> center. >> >> >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >> an >> >> authority figure. He was >> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> >> with >> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >> >> authority figure approached me >> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >> around my >> >> waist, hugged me to >> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >> told the >> >> female passenger who >> >> >> had >> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >> under >> >> control from there, but >> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >> me >> >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >> glad >> >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >> the >> >> beginning, should have >> >> >> been >> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >> to be my >> >> father, and possibly >> >> >> even >> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >> me >> >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >> Basically, >> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> >> what >> >> >> one would call professional or even >> acceptable >> >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >> center; >> >> only you can decide that >> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >> that the >> >> man who did this to me was >> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >> has been >> >> reported multiple times >> >> >> by >> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >> way or >> >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >> big >> >> going on here that I am >> >> >> unaware >> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >> here, but >> >> regardless of that, I >> >> >> could >> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >> decision. If >> >> it does not, please know >> >> >> that >> >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> >> It's just a reason >> >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >> >> Out on the water >> >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> >> You will find your way >> >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> >> Behalf >> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> >> list >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >> but I used >> >> to go there on to >> >> >> stay >> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >> thing I can >> >> say is that LWSB has >> >> >> made >> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >> would >> >> think about visiting >> >> >> there >> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >> do have >> >> an option to live off >> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a >> >> sign in and sign out >> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >> have >> >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> >> during class time to keep count of >> attendance, >> >> however, this is know >> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >> work which >> >> everyone blind and >> >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >> programs there >> >> and frankly since you >> >> >> have >> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >> offices, >> >> it is a guarantied >> >> >> employment after completing the program >> and they >> >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >> I said >> >> above LWSB now known as >> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >> of >> >> changes under the new >> >> >> director >> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >> food is now. >> >> As I said earlier, I >> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >> kind of >> >> decision. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >> they never >> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >> times; but it >> >> is vague, like a >> >> >> breeze >> >> >> among flowers. >> >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students" >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >> >>> Hi >> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have >> attended >> >> LWSB for one of their >> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >> in >> >> general? >> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS >> programs, and >> >> was reading the manual, >> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >> structured >> >> environment, even >> >> >>> though most of the participants are >> adults. For >> >> instance, you have to >> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >> and things >> >> like that. Have any of >> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear >> what your >> >> experiences were. Since >> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like >> it’s >> >> not as independent of an >> >> >>> environment. >> >> >>> Ian >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >> >>> oo.com >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your >> >> account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your >> >> account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 00:17:55 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:17:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center Message-ID: <500600c0.e1bd320a.32f9.fffff94c@mx.google.com> I went to CCB and thankfully graduted. The thing about the NFB centers is that they may or may not accept people who have more than one disability, particularly mental disabilities/illnesses. This is because the activities are overwhelming and the work is tough. I'm not sure how I can say this, but it took me going to CCB to get my parents to stop breathing down my neck about how incapable I was/could have been. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Message-ID: <1342571206.58069.YahooMailClassic@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Arielle, What you mentioned is correct. In addition, many rehab agency would like to send clients to instate training agency rather than a out of state agency is because it is because counselors have to justify why they are spending state many out of state. Anotherwords, think of the arguement "why should someone who is not a resident of Arkansas get tuition at the same rate as residents of Arkansas? The answer is that they should not and thats why those who are not residents of the state have to pay out of state tuition twice the rate of instate students." Now if a client can justify why they want to attend a training center out of state such as the training they want is only offered at certain training centers such as the NFB traing center, or the career goal they want is only offered at certain training such as the IRS program, it is much eaiser for the counselor to fund that and most clients end up being able to attend the training center of their choice. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:45 PM > Hi all, > Many VR agencies will tell clients that they can only send > them to > in-state or "in-contract" centers for training. However, > this is only > partially true. VR agencies prefer to send clients to > centers with > which they have established contracts, which are usually > in-state > centers. But by law VR agencies are required to support a > client's > choice of center if that choice is justified, even if the > center is > out-of-state or out-of-contract. I don't know the legal > specifics but > several Federation leaders can provide assistance with this, > including > Jim Omvig, Amy Phelps, Fred Schroeder and Edward Bell. If > you are > having problems getting a VR counselor to respect your > informed > choice, talk with your state president and try to get > connected with > one of these people. > I have experience with this process because I was in the odd > situation > of trying to get my state to send me to LCB for training > instead of > CCB. They were willing to send me to CCB (where they had a > contract) > but not LCB. I wanted to go to LCB because I had been > offered a chance > to do some work with the blindness research institute at > Louisiana > Tech and I felt this opportunity was critical to my career > development > (and it turned out to be quite helpful after all). I had to > make that > case to my VR agency and though my counselor supported my > decision, > his supervisors did not and it took quite a lot of > discussion and > letters from Dr. Bell and from my state president, but they > finally > complied and I went to LCB. For most of you who are wanting > to go to > any NFB center rather than an in-state one (and not choosing > between > NFB centers like I did), there are many reasons you can give > for the > superiority of NFB centers: off-campus living, comprehensive > training, > blind mentors/instructors, use of sleepshades if you have > partial > sight, and probably others I am forgetting. > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 00:39:02 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:39:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Katie, Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. Patrick On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > LOL! > That's a good one! > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Liliya Asadullina > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> Hi Katie, >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> well. I >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> telling >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> far as >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> already >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> It's >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> grow up. >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> yourself >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> though >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> Get >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> them that >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> do is >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> get >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> where >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> example, I am >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> I am >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> get my >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> taking >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> with me. >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> begin, and >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> questions >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> year. >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> for >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> vision, then >> they aren't worth being friends with... >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> and >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> out to >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> succeed. >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> college as >> well. >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> Center >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> college >> and in myself too. >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> away >> from my home town and family. >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> well! >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> time >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> Cheers! >> Liliya >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> this fall. >> I >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> couldn't see. >> In >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> again. Any >> advice would be helpful. >> THANKS >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 01:12:34 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:12:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center References: <500600c0.e1bd320a.32f9.fffff94c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000b01cd6482$6b1ad8a0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Any blindness center can say that they offer comprehensive training. Any center can make you stay there for nine months I personally don't see any difference between an NFB center, and a state ran one. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center >I went to CCB and thankfully graduted. The thing about the NFB centers is >that they may or may not accept people who have more than one disability, >particularly mental disabilities/illnesses. This is because the activities >are overwhelming and the work is tough. I'm not sure how I can say this, >but it took me going to CCB to get my parents to stop breathing down my >neck about how incapable I was/could have been. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:45:25 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center > > Hi all, > Many VR agencies will tell clients that they can only send them to > in-state or "in-contract" centers for training. However, this is only > partially true. VR agencies prefer to send clients to centers with > which they have established contracts, which are usually in-state > centers. But by law VR agencies are required to support a client's > choice of center if that choice is justified, even if the center is > out-of-state or out-of-contract. I don't know the legal specifics but > several Federation leaders can provide assistance with this, including > Jim Omvig, Amy Phelps, Fred Schroeder and Edward Bell. If you are > having problems getting a VR counselor to respect your informed > choice, talk with your state president and try to get connected with > one of these people. > I have experience with this process because I was in the odd situation > of trying to get my state to send me to LCB for training instead of > CCB. They were willing to send me to CCB (where they had a contract) > but not LCB. I wanted to go to LCB because I had been offered a chance > to do some work with the blindness research institute at Louisiana > Tech and I felt this opportunity was critical to my career development > (and it turned out to be quite helpful after all). I had to make that > case to my VR agency and though my counselor supported my decision, > his supervisors did not and it took quite a lot of discussion and > letters from Dr. Bell and from my state president, but they finally > complied and I went to LCB. For most of you who are wanting to go to > any NFB center rather than an in-state one (and not choosing between > NFB centers like I did), there are many reasons you can give for the > superiority of NFB centers: off-campus living, comprehensive training, > blind mentors/instructors, use of sleepshades if you have partial > sight, and probably others I am forgetting. > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 01:14:55 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:14:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > LOL! > > That's a good one! > > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> > >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> Hi Katie, > >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> well. I > >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> telling > >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> far as > >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> already > >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> It's > >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> grow up. > >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> yourself > >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> though > >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> Get > >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> them that > >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> do is > >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> get > >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> where > >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> example, I am > >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> I am > >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> get my > >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> taking > >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> with me. > >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> begin, and > >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> questions > >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> year. > >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> for > >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> vision, then > >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> and > >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> out to > >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> succeed. > >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> college as > >> well. > >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> Center > >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> college > >> and in myself too. > >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> away > >> from my home town and family. > >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> well! > >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> time > >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> Cheers! > >> Liliya > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> this fall. > >> I > >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> couldn't see. > >> In > >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> again. Any > >> advice would be helpful. > >> THANKS > >> > >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 01:33:34 2012 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:33:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Katie, How fun to have another Katie on the list:) I see that others have already written with plenty of good advice, which I hope you found helpful. I agree that, while there are certainly some ignorant people in college (or anywhere else, for that matter), college peers are generally much more accepting than high school students. I didn't have very positive experiences in high school either, but I was able to find a group of wonderful friends in college and consider those four years one of the most rewarding times in my life (I'm now a graduate student). As others have said, self-advocacy skills are extremely important for academic success in college, and establishing yourself as an independent, capable person is the first step toward building a fulfilling social life. I usually don't say much about my blindness when I first meet people, but if they are genuinely interested and have questions about how I accomplish different tasks after we get to know each other a bit, I'm always happy to share my experiences. Best of luck with the start of your freshman year, and feel free to email me personally if you have any specific questions. Katie On 7/17/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Katie, > Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you > that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people > that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for > themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a > person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. > When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, > take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was > walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me > how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great > conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me > an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. > Patrick > > On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> LOL! >> That's a good one! >> I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >>> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >>> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >>> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >>> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>> >>> And I agree about adding in humour. >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >>> Hi Katie, >>> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >>> well. I >>> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >>> telling >>> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >>> far as >>> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >>> already >>> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >>> It's >>> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >>> grow up. >>> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >>> yourself >>> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >>> though >>> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >>> Get >>> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >>> them that >>> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >>> do is >>> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >>> get >>> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >>> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >>> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >>> where >>> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >>> example, I am >>> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >>> I am >>> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >>> get my >>> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >>> taking >>> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >>> with me. >>> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >>> begin, and >>> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >>> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >>> questions >>> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >>> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >>> year. >>> Be confident in you! You've got this! >>> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >>> for >>> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >>> vision, then >>> they aren't worth being friends with... >>> People come to college from all different areas around the world >>> and >>> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >>> out to >>> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >>> succeed. >>> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >>> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >>> college as >>> well. >>> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >>> Center >>> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >>> college >>> and in myself too. >>> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >>> away >>> from my home town and family. >>> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >>> well! >>> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >>> time >>> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >>> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >>> Cheers! >>> Liliya >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >>> this fall. >>> I >>> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >>> couldn't see. >>> In >>> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >>> again. Any >>> advice would be helpful. >>> THANKS >>> >>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Jul 18 01:38:09 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:38:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> Ashley, I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have decided to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to anyone looking for any kind of certification for assistive technology. Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 month course in assistive technology. As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who come here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted into the program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can gather and present to anyone who would do anything. I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit through my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as evidenced by the lie that my state counselor caught him in. Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been taken care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. This was not discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I mentioned it in passing while on the phone with her, but the point is that he didn't say that he would check to be sure it had been taken care of, or that he had sent out requests for it to be taken care of, but he assured her that it absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days later, but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things change here because not enough people at one time makes a big enough deal about the problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they choose not to come back, it all gets swept under the rug. Wash, rinse, repeat. Best, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Amber, Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and 8pm. Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current college student or recent grad. If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their > employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, > and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even > though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to > sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of > you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an > environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > oo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 01:43:45 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:43:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> Message-ID: Wow! Amber, how accessible is the online school? Blackboard gives me fits, so if they use Blackboard, that school is out of the question! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Ashley, > > I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive > technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have decided > to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to anyone looking for > any kind of certification for assistive technology. > > Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 month > course in assistive technology. > > As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who come > here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted into the > program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. Others feel > they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can gather and present > to anyone who would do anything. > > I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit through > my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as evidenced by the > lie that my state counselor caught him in. > > Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been taken > care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. This was not > discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I mentioned it in > passing while on the phone with her, but the point is that he didn't say > that he would check to be sure it had been taken care of, or that he had > sent out requests for it to be taken care of, but he assured her that it > absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. > > Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days later, > but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things change here > because not enough people at one time makes a big enough deal about the > problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they choose not to come > back, it all gets swept under the rug. > > Wash, rinse, repeat. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to > stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this > is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected > by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be > accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover > over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as > confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, > the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are > unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are > reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Jul 18 01:44:22 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:44:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: <50051be7.875f320a.0219.ffff9dcb@mx.google.com> References: <50051be7.875f320a.0219.ffff9dcb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003801cd6486$db586110$92092330$@edu> Beth, Something you could add is that it is easier for you to get computer and screen reader support because of the fact that it is integrated. Consider the scenario: Something, who knows what, pick your favorite (or least favorite, as I = like to do) program, and assume that something won't work. You get in touch with the developer of the program, and they say they = don't know whether or not their program is supported by our screen reader, and anyway, your screen reader is a third-party app, so who knows whose = fault it really is? You call your screen reader of choice's tech support line, but, they to, have no ideas. We're sorry it's broken, but we really can't be sure = that every program is compatible with our screen reader. If it's not a = popular program, you can't be sure of anything. Maybe we need someone to write scripts for it. Or: You discover that something doesn't work, so you call Apple. Now, Apple didn't develop this program, but they did develop the screen reader, so they kno0w how it should interact with the computer, whereas, there is = no predicting what any given screen reader will do. It's cheaper to upgrade the operating system for apple's products, which means, whenever the operating system is upgraded, the screen reader is automatically upgraded. I could go on and on about this stuff. If you'd like an actual conversation about it, please feel free to use information located in my signature. I would be glad to talk Apple with you; I have iOs devices = as well as a Mac Mini. HTH, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:02 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer What would be a good case to plead? I would want to say that Voiceover doesn't require a license key and all this money to update every two minutes. Well, maybe not every two minutes, but I want to know how I = could plead a good case. It is cheaper in the long run to purchase a Mac = rather than a Windows PC. Plus I could read the books I purchase on Itunes. I need help convincing rehab that a Mac is the way to go for me and not = the overly expensive and money-hungry Windows PC. If you have any further ideas, just email me off list. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab = deals with macs?=A6they don't in my state any way. Good Luck. On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and = rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... =20 Anyway, that's all I have to say. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC><02132C2C68FF409F808E2AEC1BCFA826@OwnerPC> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817B81@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <003901cd6487$9d0622c0$d7126840$@edu> Hi, I would just like to say, as has been stated briefly already, that the consumers have the right to attend any training center of their choice, provided that they can provide information on why that center is the best fit for their needs. Informed choice has made it possible for clients to decide based on their needs, not based on what the state thinks is best monetarily. It is a necessary step, of course, because the state does have to account for money spent, but I know someone who is from Florida and is attending BLIND Inc. now. She had a long drawn-out interaction with the state, wherein she had to prove that this was best for her, but certainly once precedent is set, and assuming that the client truly feels that an NFB center would best meet their needs, I would find it hard to believe that the state wouldn't have to send them eventually. I don't say this to sound disrespectful. I just hate to see misinformation out there, in case someone from florida on this list is seriously considering attending an NFB center. If so, he or she would have been greatly discouraged by your message, and, knowing someone personally who made it happen with determination and solid commitment, I couldn't stay quiet. Best, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wasif, Zunaira Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:02 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs I work in state rehab in Florida and we won't send anyone out of state for training. They have to attend local centers because the state doesn't want to pay for out of state training, unfortunately. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:08 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs The good thing is, that people know more now, than they knew then! Thanks to these lists, all you need is a Google search! More people know what's going on, so they can speak up! Had I known about the LCB, long ago I would have spoken up! I'm glad I didn't stay there! My only problem, is that she's staying until Friday! If I were her, i'd take Megabus back to Ohio, and leave today! This is horible! She shouldn't have to endure 3 more days of this mess! JMHO! Blessings, Joshua On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > Since clients have the right to leave as Amber is, I'd say they are > attracted to the center. Yes rehab can send them there, if clients do > not speak up and ask to attend another center. But they certainly do > not have to > > stay there! If there really are crimes so near you hear gun shots, > that doesn't sound safe and any sane person would fear for their safety. > So they must be attracted to some extent because people keep going and > staying there. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ashley, the issue isn't that WSB attracts clients! > The issue is, (in Arkansas, at least,) that Rehab sends people there, > if they don't say that they'd rather attend LCB, CCB, etc. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/16/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Amber, >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts >> in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for >> someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad >> rumors about it. >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB >> continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are >> in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to >> account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to >> know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never >> found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and >> them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on >> campus or not. >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As >> a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I >> wanted to. >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; >> between 7 and 8pm. >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I >> wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or >> whatever you need. >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a >> current college student or recent grad. >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more >> doors to you. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and >> not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be >> very reliable. >> >> The facts: >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >> but they do not work very well. >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but >> they probably come down to personal preference and really are just >> normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, >> except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >> scaled down hugely. >> So >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a >> dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at >> the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can >> argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular >> schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with >> the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our >> rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable >> for us. >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing >> a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my >> waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told >> the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it >> under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down >> at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're >> so glad you're home!" >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >> acceptable regardless of setting. >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds >> >> a >> job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am >> unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, >> I could never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please >> know that I wish you all the best. >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing >> out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >> 45,000 or more. >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now >> known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under >> the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >> As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind >> of decision. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM Hi I'm wondering if any of you >>> have attended LWSB for one of their employment training programs, or >>> LWSB in general? >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the >>> manual, and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, >>> even though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you >>> have to sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. >>> Have any of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>> experiences were. Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>> not as independent of an environment. >>> Ian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40y >>> ah >>> oo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio >> .edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear >> thlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu >> dents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Jul 18 01:51:50 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:51:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <003a01cd6487$e6aad3d0$b4007b70$@edu> Peter, I did attend BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was attending this center in hopes of obtaining training that would lead to a job as an assistive technology instructor. Obviously, I will not be remaining here now, but thankfully, have found an online solution, that will allow me to be at home yet still obtain the training. Best, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:25 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Good morning everyone, LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long and checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims to serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At one time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and in the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address these issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to pay all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was there to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed to be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers are a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. Peter Donahue From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Amber, Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and 8pm. Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current college student or recent grad. If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their > employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, > and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even > though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to > sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of > you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an > environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > oo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 01:57:54 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:57:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <003a01cd6487$e6aad3d0$b4007b70$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <001001cd6430$436b5d90$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <003a01cd6487$e6aad3d0$b4007b70$@edu> Message-ID: Hi Amber. I'm praying God's blessings in your online endeavor! Please keep me posted! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Peter, > > I did attend BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was attending this center in hopes of > obtaining training that would lead to a job as an assistive technology > instructor. Obviously, I will not be remaining here now, but thankfully, > have found an online solution, that will allow me to be at home yet still > obtain the training. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:25 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Good morning everyone, > > LWSB, formerly the Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind has had a long and > checkered history concerning its treatment of the blind persons it claims to > serve. The conditions you describe have existed there for many years. At one > time it was accredited by the National Accreditation Council for Agencies > Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) Its former blind > director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a reputation for condoning > practices that often led to blind persons being abused, mistreated, and in > the case of sheltered workshops being paid less than the Federal minimum > wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" failed to address these > issues. For example the standards called for the agency's grounds to be > pleasant but did not require the sheltered workshops they accredited to pay > all employees including the blind employees the Federal minimum wage. > > In 1985 NAC held its annual meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was there > to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises for the Blind and the > Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the NFB. While at AEB a > number of AEB clients told us that there were problems and that it needed to > be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on that picket line. > > Judging from what I've read NAC for practical purposes is gone but > vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such as LWSB. Amber here's > hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training center. These centers are > a big cut above anything else out there. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to > stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this > is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected > by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be > accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover > over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as > confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, > the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are > unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are > reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Jul 18 02:05:24 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:05:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: <003801cd6486$db586110$92092330$@edu> References: <50051be7.875f320a.0219.ffff9dcb@mx.google.com> <003801cd6486$db586110$92092330$@edu> Message-ID: <500619E4.4090103@tysdomain.com> Your scenarios make no sense at all. Yes, apple developed Voiceover, Freedom Scientific developed Jaws. Because FS is third party does not mean that the screen reader is going to be irratic and it might just suddenly decide to send tentacles out your USB port to gobble you up for lunch. Whether or not you get in touch with apple or FS, or even GWMicro, they probably won't support a ton of third-party programs. There are standards to make programs more accessible, which is what Voiceover and windows readers use, so it's not just some unknown deal. If your going to throw out scenarios, it really helps if you have an understanding of the options and how things work before you work them out, otherwise it just makes no sense and you're left with the message you just popped out with. Yes, You do get voiceover free on the MAC, but for $1400 I can buy an amazing computer that isn't apple as well. I could also use NVDA, which no, it's not installed by default, but it can very easily be installed and you have not only the ability to buy a cheaper computer with non-proprietary hardware, but you also have a free screenreader, which compares and exceeds a lot of what voiceover can do. You mention scenarios and accessibility, so here's a scenario for you. You get an app on the mac, and vo+left/right doesn't work--what do you do. Well, you can sort of automate things sometimes, assuming you can access things through apple script, you might be able to do it with macros, but this is a long shot. On windows you have more options--you can use the object navigation or the jaws cursor, or you can write scripts for the app itself, rather than some external slow clunky applescript mess. I'm not going to totally trash OSX--I totally 100% love the accessible install, and I love some of the apps--nothing I've ever seen beats mail on OSX. I just want to discourage bad information just for the ability to spread mac love. On 7/17/2012 7:44 PM, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Beth, > > Something you could add is that it is easier for you to get computer and > screen reader support because of the fact that it is integrated. > > Consider the scenario: > > Something, who knows what, pick your favorite (or least favorite, as I like > to do) program, and assume that something won't work. > > You get in touch with the developer of the program, and they say they don't > know whether or not their program is supported by our screen reader, and > anyway, your screen reader is a third-party app, so who knows whose fault > it really is? > > You call your screen reader of choice's tech support line, but, they to, > have no ideas. We're sorry it's broken, but we really can't be sure that > every program is compatible with our screen reader. If it's not a popular > program, you can't be sure of anything. Maybe we need someone to write > scripts for it. > > Or: > > You discover that something doesn't work, so you call Apple. Now, Apple > didn't develop this program, but they did develop the screen reader, so > they kno0w how it should interact with the computer, whereas, there is no > predicting what any given screen reader will do. > > It's cheaper to upgrade the operating system for apple's products, which > means, whenever the operating system is upgraded, the screen reader is > automatically upgraded. > > I could go on and on about this stuff. If you'd like an actual > conversation about it, please feel free to use information located in my > signature. I would be glad to talk Apple with you; I have iOs devices as > well as a Mac Mini. > > HTH, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:02 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer > > What would be a good case to plead? I would want to say that Voiceover > doesn't require a license key and all this money to update every two > minutes. Well, maybe not every two minutes, but I want to know how I could > plead a good case. It is cheaper in the long run to purchase a Mac rather > than a Windows PC. Plus I could read the books I purchase on Itunes. I > need help convincing rehab that a Mac is the way to go for me and not the > overly expensive and money-hungry Windows PC. If you have any further > ideas, just email me off list. > Thanks. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:38:51 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Beth, > Out here in Utah rehab's been known to buy macs if clients can plead a > strong enough case to go that route instead of windows. I might switch > over eventually but, I love jaws, and although I also love my iPhone, the > learning curve to switch from jaws to voiceover, on a desktop or laptop, > seems rather steep to me right now. > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab deals > with macs??hey don't in my state any way. > > Good Luck. > On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: > > I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a > word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or > something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and rehab > will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... > Anyway, > that's all I have to say. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" To: Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Good evening everyone, > > If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at the > national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer would call > us "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig that has served > me well for 8 years and will probably run for a while longer. But when you > know the clock is ticking and you want an information processing > powerhouse it's time to shop for a new computer. > > Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's my > turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll most > likely purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my laptop (The > "Brains" > of > my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us well. My > HP has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows as your > primary operating system and you choose either of those brands you can't > go wrong. > > A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of an > iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. > > Peter Donahue > > ??o weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.?? > Isaiah 54:17 > > ??hile for our princes they prepare > In caverns deep a burning snare, > He shot from heaven a piercing ray, > And the dark treachery brought to day.?? > Anonymous > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail..com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud > e%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs- > l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Jul 18 02:13:17 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:13:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> Message-ID: <003c01cd648a$e5892fd0$b09b8f70$@edu> Joshua, I'm not sure as I have not engaged in any classwork as of yet, but I would assume that they knew that it all needed to be accessible, considering the field and the fact that they are aware that they might teach blind students using screen readers. I'm sorry I don't have more information at this time. I would be happy to keep any who are interested abreast of developments as I begin and then progress through the training. Best, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Wow! Amber, how accessible is the online school? Blackboard gives me fits, so if they use Blackboard, that school is out of the question! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Ashley, > > I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive > technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have > decided to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to > anyone looking for any kind of certification for assistive technology. > > Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 > month course in assistive technology. > > As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who > come here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted > into the program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. > Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can > gather and present to anyone who would do anything. > > I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit > through my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as > evidenced by the lie that my state counselor caught him in. > > Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been > taken care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. > This was not discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I > mentioned it in passing while on the phone with her, but the point is > that he didn't say that he would check to be sure it had been taken > care of, or that he had sent out requests for it to be taken care of, > but he assured her that it absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. > > Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days > later, but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things > change here because not enough people at one time makes a big enough > deal about the problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they > choose not to come back, it all gets swept under the rug. > > Wash, rinse, repeat. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts > in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for > someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB > continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are > in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to > account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to > know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never > found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and > them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between > 7 and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I > wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a > current college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more > doors to you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is > what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not > color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will > clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or > not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and > what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though > the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, > except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light > bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall > where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a > concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite > several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found > even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave > food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their > rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except > they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled > down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you > could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not > come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure > that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a > particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take > issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or > refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, > but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a > great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He > was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage > claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure > approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, > hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the > female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under > control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me > and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have > been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and > possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally > since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it > was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide > that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this > to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported > multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or > another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big > going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to > stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that > LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think > about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do > have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may > have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of > attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out > of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since > you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known > as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said > earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >> an environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >> h >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. > edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. > edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Jul 18 02:17:25 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:17:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: <500619E4.4090103@tysdomain.com> References: <50051be7.875f320a.0219.ffff9dcb@mx.google.com> <003801cd6486$db586110$92092330$@edu> <500619E4.4090103@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <004501cd648b$795c5b60$6c151220$@edu> Tyler, I apologize. I can see that I should have waited until I had more brain to write my response. Re-reading what I wrote now, I can see how what I wrote looks, but it isn't really even what I meant, so it's pointless. I'll just shut up now, since I've obviously made myself look like a dumby. LOL. No hard feelings. Just the truth. I really do know more than that message made me look like. I just did not word it well. Again, I apologize. Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer Your scenarios make no sense at all. Yes, apple developed Voiceover, Freedom Scientific developed Jaws. Because FS is third party does not mean that the screen reader is going to be irratic and it might just suddenly decide to send tentacles out your USB port to gobble you up for lunch. Whether or not you get in touch with apple or FS, or even GWMicro, they probably won't support a ton of third-party programs. There are standards to make programs more accessible, which is what Voiceover and windows readers use, so it's not just some unknown deal. If your going to throw out scenarios, it really helps if you have an understanding of the options and how things work before you work them out, otherwise it just makes no sense and you're left with the message you just popped out with. Yes, You do get voiceover free on the MAC, but for $1400 I can buy an amazing computer that isn't apple as well. I could also use NVDA, which no, it's not installed by default, but it can very easily be installed and you have not only the ability to buy a cheaper computer with non-proprietary hardware, but you also have a free screenreader, which compares and exceeds a lot of what voiceover can do. You mention scenarios and accessibility, so here's a scenario for you. You get an app on the mac, and vo+left/right doesn't work--what do you do. Well, you can sort of automate things sometimes, assuming you can access things through apple script, you might be able to do it with macros, but this is a long shot. On windows you have more options--you can use the object navigation or the jaws cursor, or you can write scripts for the app itself, rather than some external slow clunky applescript mess. I'm not going to totally trash OSX--I totally 100% love the accessible install, and I love some of the apps--nothing I've ever seen beats mail on OSX. I just want to discourage bad information just for the ability to spread mac love. On 7/17/2012 7:44 PM, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Beth, > > Something you could add is that it is easier for you to get computer > and screen reader support because of the fact that it is integrated. > > Consider the scenario: > > Something, who knows what, pick your favorite (or least favorite, as I > like to do) program, and assume that something won't work. > > You get in touch with the developer of the program, and they say they > don't know whether or not their program is supported by our screen > reader, and anyway, your screen reader is a third-party app, so who > knows whose fault it really is? > > You call your screen reader of choice's tech support line, but, they > to, have no ideas. We're sorry it's broken, but we really can't be > sure that every program is compatible with our screen reader. If it's > not a popular program, you can't be sure of anything. Maybe we need > someone to write scripts for it. > > Or: > > You discover that something doesn't work, so you call Apple. Now, > Apple didn't develop this program, but they did develop the screen > reader, so they kno0w how it should interact with the computer, > whereas, there is no predicting what any given screen reader will do. > > It's cheaper to upgrade the operating system for apple's products, > which means, whenever the operating system is upgraded, the screen > reader is automatically upgraded. > > I could go on and on about this stuff. If you'd like an actual > conversation about it, please feel free to use information located in > my signature. I would be glad to talk Apple with you; I have iOs > devices as well as a Mac Mini. > > HTH, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:02 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer > > What would be a good case to plead? I would want to say that Voiceover > doesn't require a license key and all this money to update every two > minutes. Well, maybe not every two minutes, but I want to know how I > could plead a good case. It is cheaper in the long run to purchase a > Mac rather than a Windows PC. Plus I could read the books I purchase > on Itunes. I need help convincing rehab that a Mac is the way to go > for me and not the overly expensive and money-hungry Windows PC. If > you have any further ideas, just email me off list. > Thanks. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Beth, > Out here in Utah rehab's been known to buy macs if clients can > plead a strong enough case to go that route instead of windows. I > might switch over eventually but, I love jaws, and although I also > love my iPhone, the learning curve to switch from jaws to voiceover, > on a desktop or laptop, seems rather steep to me right now. > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab > deals with macs??hey don't in my state any way. > > Good Luck. > On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: > > I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is > there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word > for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for > college and rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... > Anyway, > that's all I have to say. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" To: Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Good evening everyone, > > If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at > the national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer > would call us "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig > that has served me well for 8 years and will probably run for a while > longer. But when you know the clock is ticking and you want an > information processing powerhouse it's time to shop for a new computer. > > Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's > my turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll > most likely purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my > laptop (The "Brains" > of > my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us > well. My HP has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows > as your primary operating system and you choose either of those > brands you can't go wrong. > > A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of > an iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. > > Peter Donahue > > ??o weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.?? > Isaiah 54:17 > > ??hile for our princes they prepare > In caverns deep a burning snare, > He shot from heaven a piercing ray, > And the dark treachery brought to day.?? > Anonymous > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail..com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud > e%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs- > l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. > com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 02:19:55 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:19:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E99B850FB6B4234966EECFD065682FF@OwnerPC> Katie, Unfortunately, you cannot change some bad experiences and attitudes. Why would you tell them? Being totally blind with a cane, isn't it obvious? You may want to be more specific. What exactly would you tell them and why? If its professors, I simply state it; I have some vision so I say visually impaired. I simply state my condition and state then I will need accomodations and will discuss those and any questions they have after class and if needed a meeting. This has always worked fine with me. I advocate ahead of time to professors via email; after all, I want electronic copies of stuff, particularly the syllabus which is handed out first thing day one. I think the only disclosing you need to do is via phone if you have a roommate. I'd tell the roommate ahead of time, so its not a shocker to them; with all your adaptive equipment and all. I told my roommates and they seemed fine with it. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Katie Cl Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 02:21:44 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:21:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer In-Reply-To: <004501cd648b$795c5b60$6c151220$@edu> References: <50051be7.875f320a.0219.ffff9dcb@mx.google.com> <003801cd6486$db586110$92092330$@edu> <500619E4.4090103@tysdomain.com> <004501cd648b$795c5b60$6c151220$@edu> Message-ID: Amber, I have some questions for you concerning the Mac, that I think would be better suited for off list. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Tyler, > > I apologize. I can see that I should have waited until I had more brain to > write my response. Re-reading what I wrote now, I can see how what I wrote > looks, but it isn't really even what I meant, so it's pointless. I'll just > shut up now, since I've obviously made myself look like a dumby. LOL. No > hard feelings. Just the truth. > > I really do know more than that message made me look like. I just did not > word it well. > > Again, I apologize. > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer > > Your scenarios make no sense at all. > Yes, apple developed Voiceover, Freedom Scientific developed Jaws. > Because FS is third party does not mean that the screen reader is going to > be irratic and it might just suddenly decide to send tentacles out your USB > port to gobble you up for lunch. Whether or not you get in touch with apple > or FS, or even GWMicro, they probably won't support a ton of third-party > programs. There are standards to make programs more accessible, which is > what Voiceover and windows readers use, so it's not just some unknown deal. > If your going to throw out scenarios, it really helps if you have an > understanding of the options and how things work before you work them out, > otherwise it just makes no sense and you're left with the message you just > popped out with. > > Yes, You do get voiceover free on the MAC, but for $1400 I can buy an > amazing computer that isn't apple as well. I could also use NVDA, which no, > it's not installed by default, but it can very easily be installed and you > have not only the ability to buy a cheaper computer with non-proprietary > hardware, but you also have a free screenreader, which compares and exceeds > a lot of what voiceover can do. You mention scenarios and accessibility, so > here's a scenario for you. > > You get an app on the mac, and vo+left/right doesn't work--what do you do. > Well, you can sort of automate things sometimes, assuming you can access > things through apple script, you might be able to do it with macros, but > this is a long shot. On windows you have more options--you can use the > object navigation or the jaws cursor, or you can write scripts for the app > itself, rather than some external slow clunky applescript mess. > > I'm not going to totally trash OSX--I totally 100% love the accessible > install, and I love some of the apps--nothing I've ever seen beats mail on > OSX. I just want to discourage bad information just for the ability to > spread mac love. > On 7/17/2012 7:44 PM, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Beth, >> >> Something you could add is that it is easier for you to get computer >> and screen reader support because of the fact that it is integrated. >> >> Consider the scenario: >> >> Something, who knows what, pick your favorite (or least favorite, as I >> like to do) program, and assume that something won't work. >> >> You get in touch with the developer of the program, and they say they >> don't know whether or not their program is supported by our screen >> reader, and anyway, your screen reader is a third-party app, so who >> knows whose fault it really is? >> >> You call your screen reader of choice's tech support line, but, they >> to, have no ideas. We're sorry it's broken, but we really can't be >> sure that every program is compatible with our screen reader. If it's >> not a popular program, you can't be sure of anything. Maybe we need >> someone to write scripts for it. >> >> Or: >> >> You discover that something doesn't work, so you call Apple. Now, >> Apple didn't develop this program, but they did develop the screen >> reader, so they kno0w how it should interact with the computer, >> whereas, there is no predicting what any given screen reader will do. >> >> It's cheaper to upgrade the operating system for apple's products, >> which means, whenever the operating system is upgraded, the screen >> reader is automatically upgraded. >> >> I could go on and on about this stuff. If you'd like an actual >> conversation about it, please feel free to use information located in >> my signature. I would be glad to talk Apple with you; I have iOs >> devices as well as a Mac Mini. >> >> HTH, >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> ATI Student in Training 2012 >> World Services for the Blind >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> 2811 Fair Park Boulevard >> Little Rock, AR 72204 >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Beth >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:02 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer >> >> What would be a good case to plead? I would want to say that Voiceover >> doesn't require a license key and all this money to update every two >> minutes. Well, maybe not every two minutes, but I want to know how I >> could plead a good case. It is cheaper in the long run to purchase a >> Mac rather than a Windows PC. Plus I could read the books I purchase >> on Itunes. I need help convincing rehab that a Mac is the way to go >> for me and not the overly expensive and money-hungry Windows PC. If >> you have any further ideas, just email me off list. >> Thanks. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Computer >> >> Beth, >> Out here in Utah rehab's been known to buy macs if clients can >> plead a strong enough case to go that route instead of windows. I >> might switch over eventually but, I love jaws, and although I also >> love my iPhone, the learning curve to switch from jaws to voiceover, >> on a desktop or laptop, seems rather steep to me right now. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/16/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab >> deals with macs??hey don't in my state any way. >> >> Good Luck. >> On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: >> >> I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is >> there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word >> for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for >> college and rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two > cents. ... >> Anyway, >> that's all I have to say. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" > To: > Date sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:31:07 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer >> >> Good evening everyone, >> >> If those of us in the market for new computers were gathered at >> the national office for a seminar of some kind perhaps Dr. Maurer >> would call us "The New Computer Seminar." I have an HP Pavilion rig >> that has served me well for 8 years and will probably run for a while >> longer. But when you know the clock is ticking and you want an >> information processing powerhouse it's time to shop for a new computer. >> >> Last year we bought one for my wife quite unexpectedly. Now it's >> my turn. We've had great success with HP and Dell computers so I'll >> most likely purchess one of those brands. Mary's desktop and my >> laptop (The "Brains" >> of >> my recording operation) is a Dell. Both machines are serving us >> well. My HP has given me outstanding service too. If you use Windows >> as your primary operating system and you choose either of those >> brands you can't go wrong. >> >> A Mac machine is further in the future most likely in the form of >> an iPhone, iPad, or a NetBook. Happy computer shopping. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ??o weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.?? >> Isaiah 54:17 >> >> ??hile for our princes they prepare >> In caverns deep a burning snare, >> He shot from heaven a piercing ray, >> And the dark treachery brought to day.?? >> Anonymous >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail..com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4 >> 0gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs- >> l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >> com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 02:23:19 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:23:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C61D2AFE8BC4A82AAB8BE602105AA72@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I only told my professors. I would send them an email about 2 weeks before the quarter started, letting them know that I was blind and asking them if they could please send any handouts or worksheets to the disability center. I also asked them if they had any questions, then ended with I'm super excited to be in your class! If I'm asked: "Are you blind?" I reply by saying yes, but that doesn't stop me from doing what I want to do." Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Katie Cl Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 02:23:36 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:23:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <003c01cd648a$e5892fd0$b09b8f70$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> <003c01cd648a$e5892fd0$b09b8f70$@edu> Message-ID: I have some Blackboard questions, that you might be able to answer off list. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Joshua, > > I'm not sure as I have not engaged in any classwork as of yet, but I would > assume that they knew that it all needed to be accessible, considering the > field and the fact that they are aware that they might teach blind students > using screen readers. > > I'm sorry I don't have more information at this time. I would be happy to > keep any who are interested abreast of developments as I begin and then > progress through the training. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Wow! > Amber, how accessible is the online school? > Blackboard gives me fits, so if they use Blackboard, that school is out of > the question! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Ashley, >> >> I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive >> technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have >> decided to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to >> anyone looking for any kind of certification for assistive technology. >> >> Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 >> month course in assistive technology. >> >> As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who >> come here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted >> into the program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. >> Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can >> gather and present to anyone who would do anything. >> >> I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit >> through my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as >> evidenced by the lie that my state counselor caught him in. >> >> Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been >> taken care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. >> This was not discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I >> mentioned it in passing while on the phone with her, but the point is >> that he didn't say that he would check to be sure it had been taken >> care of, or that he had sent out requests for it to be taken care of, >> but he assured her that it absolutely had already, past tense, been taken > care of. >> >> Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days >> later, but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things >> change here because not enough people at one time makes a big enough >> deal about the problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they >> choose not to come back, it all gets swept under the rug. >> >> Wash, rinse, repeat. >> >> Best, >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> ATI Student in Training 2012 >> World Services for the Blind >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> 2811 Fair Park Boulevard >> Little Rock, AR 72204 >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Amber, >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts >> in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for >> someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors > about it. >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB >> continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are >> in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to >> account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to >> know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never >> found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and >> them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus >> or > not. >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted > to. >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between >> 7 and 8pm. >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I >> wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever > you need. >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a >> current college student or recent grad. >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more >> doors to you. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not >> color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very > reliable. >> >> The facts: >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except > cafeteria food. >> There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very > well. >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except >> they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled >> down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you >> could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not >> come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >> that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a >> particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take >> issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or >> refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are > most comfortable for us. >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a >> great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, >> hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >> female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under >> control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me >> and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad > you're home!" >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even > acceptable regardless of setting. >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big >> going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >> could never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >> that I wish you all the best. >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> Impossible is not a word >> It's just a reason >> For someone not to try >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> When they decide to take that step >> Out on the water >> It'll be alright >> >> Life is so much more >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> You will find your way >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Ian, >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out >> of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at > 45,000 or more. >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known >> as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >> director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said >> earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> Hi >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >>> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >>> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >>> an environment. >>> Ian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >>> h >>> oo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >> edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart >> hlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >> edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >> ents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 02:37:38 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:37:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello, This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't found a way to prevent it. When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm holding their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching stairs. I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's on the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive to me as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? Because it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them out, because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely to please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still feel violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, but I really have no idea how to prevent it. If anyone has any idea, please let me know! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > LOL! > > That's a good one! > > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> > >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> Hi Katie, > >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> well. I > >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> telling > >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> far as > >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> already > >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> It's > >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> grow up. > >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> yourself > >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> though > >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> Get > >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> them that > >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> do is > >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> get > >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> where > >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> example, I am > >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> I am > >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> get my > >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> taking > >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> with me. > >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> begin, and > >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> questions > >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> year. > >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> for > >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> vision, then > >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> and > >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> out to > >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> succeed. > >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> college as > >> well. > >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> Center > >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> college > >> and in myself too. > >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> away > >> from my home town and family. > >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> well! > >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> time > >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> Cheers! > >> Liliya > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> this fall. > >> I > >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> couldn't see. > >> In > >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> again. Any > >> advice would be helpful. > >> THANKS > >> > >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 02:44:48 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:44:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <9C61D2AFE8BC4A82AAB8BE602105AA72@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <9C61D2AFE8BC4A82AAB8BE602105AA72@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi Katie, Firstly welcome to the list. My name is Arielle Silverman and I am a blind graduate student in Boulder, CO. I was a freshman nine years ago so longer ago than for some of the other listers here, but I can still answer any questions you may have about college or grad school. If you use a cane or guide dog then you won't usuallly need to explicitly tell anyone that you can't see. However, from your question I gather that you might not use a cane or guide dog since you have some vision. Is that the case? If so, then I can understand how it might be awkward if people don't immediately figure out that you can't see and you have to explain it to them. If you're in that situation, you might want to think a little bit about whether using a cane would make things go more smoothly for you or if it would give you more independence. If you do decide to use a cane, it will be obvious to others that you are blind and then you won't need to discuss it much with them. It will also mean people should be more understanding if you accidentally bump into them or if you don't make eye contact. Finally, a cane allows many visually impaired people to get from one place to another faster and more safely since you won't need to worry as much about obstacles or steps that you have trouble seeing. I am totally blind myself and always use a cane, so I haven't been in your exact situation, but I know there are several people here who have situations more similar to what I have described who could share their experiences and thoughts. Best, Arielle On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I only told my professors. I would send them an email about 2 weeks before > the quarter started, letting them know that I was blind and asking them if > they could please send any handouts or worksheets to the disability center. > > I also asked them if they had any questions, then ended with I'm super > excited to be in your class! > If I'm asked: "Are you blind?" I reply by saying yes, but that doesn't stop > > me from doing what I want to do." > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Katie Cl > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:16 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I > > was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In > > high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any > advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 02:53:34 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:53:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <9C61D2AFE8BC4A82AAB8BE602105AA72@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi Brandon, I don't like having my cane grabbed either, not only because it is insulting but also because it is dangerous. If someone is holding my cane tip up in the air I cannot detect obstacles around me and I have to rely on their judgment to ensure I don't run into something. It is also very disorienting. If the cane-grabber is a stranger, it's simply unsafe to relinquish my judgment and orientation to them. I respond in the same manner you described, by pulling out of their grip and saying "Please don't grab my cane; I need to be able to use it" and most of the time they get it. If someone persisted I would simply plant my feet and not move forward until they had let go. I think some sighted people correctly understand that we use our canes as orientation devices but then mistakenly think they can use our canes as pointers when giving directions or sighted guide. If possible I try to give them an alternative, like asking to grab their arm or to give verbal instructions. Arielle On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Katie, > Firstly welcome to the list. My name is Arielle Silverman and I am a > blind graduate student in Boulder, CO. I was a freshman nine years ago > so longer ago than for some of the other listers here, but I can still > answer any questions you may have about college or grad school. > If you use a cane or guide dog then you won't usuallly need to > explicitly tell anyone that you can't see. However, from your question > I gather that you might not use a cane or guide dog since you have > some vision. Is that the case? If so, then I can understand how it > might be awkward if people don't immediately figure out that you can't > see and you have to explain it to them. If you're in that situation, > you might want to think a little bit about whether using a cane would > make things go more smoothly for you or if it would give you more > independence. If you do decide to use a cane, it will be obvious to > others that you are blind and then you won't need to discuss it much > with them. It will also mean people should be more understanding if > you accidentally bump into them or if you don't make eye contact. > Finally, a cane allows many visually impaired people to get from one > place to another faster and more safely since you won't need to worry > as much about obstacles or steps that you have trouble seeing. I am > totally blind myself and always use a cane, so I haven't been in your > exact situation, but I know there are several people here who have > situations more similar to what I have described who could share their > experiences and thoughts. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> I only told my professors. I would send them an email about 2 weeks >> before >> the quarter started, letting them know that I was blind and asking them >> if >> they could please send any handouts or worksheets to the disability >> center. >> >> I also asked them if they had any questions, then ended with I'm super >> excited to be in your class! >> If I'm asked: "Are you blind?" I reply by saying yes, but that doesn't >> stop >> >> me from doing what I want to do." >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Katie Cl >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:16 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. >> I >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. >> In >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any >> advice would be helpful. >> THANKS >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 03:34:36 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:34:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68FC821B28BC480A8DD620596FCDE14D@OwnerPC> Lilly, good advice. I also advocate and meet with professors ahead of time. Although, usually they understand I need the first week's handouts, and that is enough to start me off; then I schedule a meeting in their office hours. If I need to go into more detail or they wish to have a meeting before class, I do so. Sometimes with more visual classes, I find it’s a good idea to meet ahead of time. I think Katie has vision and may not use a cane. In this case, it makes it harder to tell people you're blind because you don't have an obvious symbol with you. If your eyes look normal, its easy for people to forget you cannot see as well. I'd say education and just being like all other students is the best combat against negative perceptions and bad experiences. Joining clubs of interest may help. this way you can talk about the common thing, not your vision. You might want to mention what you can see briefly and move on. If you do talk specifics, state it in functional terms about how you use your vision, not medical terms. For instance, I say I have tunnel vision; I state then this means I see what is ahead of me so if I am shown something, put it in front of me, not to the side. I do not say, "I have a narrow field of vision less than ten degrees with nystagmus" To them that won't make sense and stating medical terms is unneccessary. HTH, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Liliya Asadullina Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hi Katie, My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as well. I understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after telling people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As far as I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are already in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. It's more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to grow up. Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be yourself and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even though you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. Get involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to them that you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can do is educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to get out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and where ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For example, I am emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that I am blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to get my work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be taking notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing with me. I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes begin, and will be asking them if they have any questions for me. Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any questions for you about blindness to feel free to ask. Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your year. Be confident in you! You've got this! College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you for who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some vision, then they aren't worth being friends with... People come to college from all different areas around the world and each student has something unique about them. So just reach out to those around you and show them that no matter what, you can succeed. I understand what you are going through in your mind though. I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for college as well. Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado Center For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to college and in myself too. Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate away from my home town and family. Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do well! If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any time at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu Cheers! Liliya On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. > I > was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. > In > high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any > advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 03:38:11 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:38:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5686AD08D524444B9F08BEC39BD65B14@OwnerPC> Joshua, If individual people recruit others, that is not a center thing. WSB is not affiliated with any organization. Just because a person employed there recruited people does not mean the center endorses ACB. Anyway, that should not bother students. Say no to an organization if you do not want to join. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Anmol, they wouldn't stop Alan Ramos from the California Council from recruiting. That was the guy that tried to recruit me. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try > so > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet > in > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> graduating from college. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> > >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >> would benefit from a complete training >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> employment-related assistance and >> > >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >> to an NFB center >> > yourself? >> > >> > Peter Donahue >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> > >> > >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> > She needs job training. >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> > Thanks, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> and >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> to >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >> there for many years. At >> >> one >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >> Its former blind >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >> reputation for condoning >> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> in >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >> than the Federal minimum >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >> failed to address >> >> these >> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >> agency's grounds to be >> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >> workshops they accredited to >> >> pay >> >> all employees including the blind employees the >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> there >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >> for the Blind and the >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> to >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >> that picket line. >> >> >> >> Judging from what I've read >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >> center. These centers >> >> are >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >> best. >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >> commend your efforts in >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >> a good job for >> >> someone >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >> that >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >> clients it does. >> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >> job program? >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >> bother me. You are in >> >> a >> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >> they need to account >> >> for >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >> to know where >> >> everyone >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >> not. >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >> would bother me. As a >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >> my room. >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> to. >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >> definitely nice. >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >> late at home; between 7 >> >> and >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >> training or whatever you >> >> need. >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >> if you are a current >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >> it opens up more doors >> >> to >> >> you. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list' >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >> Friday. Here is what >> >> I >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >> only facts and not color >> >> those >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >> will clearly state that >> >> if >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >> one should attend this >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >> say no. But I am not >> >> you >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >> experienced here has >> >> colored >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >> valuables go missing. >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >> codes. (just one >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >> wings, and though the >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >> not mention this, except >> >> this >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >> by any kind of panels) >> >> inside >> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >> splashed. I brought >> >> this >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >> mine is not the only >> >> one >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >> clients.) >> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >> building is full of >> >> bugs. >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >> bugs were found even >> >> in >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >> not leave food in >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >> them etc.) >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> and >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >> all except cafeteria >> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >> exist, but they do not work >> >> very >> >> well. >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >> talk about, but they >> >> probably come down to personal preference and >> really are just normal >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >> college dorm, except they >> >> are >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >> scaled down hugely. >> >> So >> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >> could go to a dining >> >> hall >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >> meals at the times >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >> that anyone can argue that >> >> when >> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >> schedule, and while this is >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >> that we can't even >> >> have >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >> may maintain the >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >> not affect anyone, but >> >> I >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >> would be doing a great >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >> center. >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >> authority figure. He was >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> with >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >> authority figure approached me >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >> waist, hugged me to >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >> female passenger who >> >> had >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >> control from there, but >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >> beginning, should have >> >> been >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >> father, and possibly >> >> even >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> what >> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >> only you can decide that >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >> man who did this to me was >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >> reported multiple times >> >> by >> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> a >> >> job here. I believe there is something big >> going on here that I am >> >> unaware >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >> regardless of that, I >> >> could >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >> it does not, please know >> >> that >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> It's just a reason >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >> Out on the water >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> You will find your way >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >> to go there on to >> >> stay >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >> say is that LWSB has >> >> made >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >> think about visiting >> >> there >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >> an option to live off >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >> sign in and sign out >> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >> however, this is know >> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >> everyone blind and >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >> and frankly since you >> >> have >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >> it is a guarantied >> >> employment after completing the program and they >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >> above LWSB now known as >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >> changes under the new >> >> director >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >> As I said earlier, I >> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >> decision. >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >> is vague, like a >> >> breeze >> >> among flowers. >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >>> Hi >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >> LWSB for one of their >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >> general? >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >> was reading the manual, >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >> environment, even >> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >> instance, you have to >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >> like that. Have any of >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >> experiences were. Since >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >> not as independent of an >> >>> environment. >> >>> Ian >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >>> oo.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 03:43:29 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:43:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Joshua, While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my understanding from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and probably a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, its an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets than we really do. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs That's what's going on. Their independence training was a scam, as well. My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive technology. When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) etc. If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress the need for such machines? Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and > try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular > organizational position. > Arielle > > On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they try >> so >> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >> in >> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>> graduating from college. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> wrote: >>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>> > >>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>> would benefit from a complete training >>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>> employment-related assistance and >>> > >>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>> to an NFB center >>> > yourself? >>> > >>> > Peter Donahue >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> > >>> > >>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>> > She needs job training. >>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>> > Thanks, Joshua >>> > >>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> wrote: >>> >> Good morning everyone, >>> >> >>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>> >> and >>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>> blind persons it claims >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>> there for many years. At >>> >> one >>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>> Its former blind >>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>> reputation for condoning >>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>> abused, mistreated, and >>> >> in >>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>> than the Federal minimum >>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>> failed to address >>> >> these >>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>> agency's grounds to be >>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>> workshops they accredited to >>> >> pay >>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>> Federal minimum wage. >>> >> >>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>> >> there >>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>> for the Blind and the >>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>> NFB. While at AEB a >>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>> problems and that it needed >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>> that picket line. >>> >> >>> >> Judging from what I've read >>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>> center. These centers >>> >> are >>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>> best. >>> >> >>> >> Peter Donahue >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> >> >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Amber, >>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>> commend your efforts in >>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>> a good job for >>> >> someone >>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>> heard bad rumors about it. >>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>> that >>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>> clients it does. >>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>> job program? >>> >> >>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>> bother me. You are in >>> >> a >>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>> they need to account >>> >> for >>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>> to know where >>> >> everyone >>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>> Youwouldn't want your >>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>> saying, oh, we do not know >>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>> not. >>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>> would bother me. As a >>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>> my room. >>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>> cold snack when I wanted >>> >> to. >>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>> definitely nice. >>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>> late at home; between 7 >>> >> and >>> >> 8pm. >>> >> >>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>> decision to leave. So I wish >>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>> training or whatever you >>> >> need. >>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>> if you are a current >>> >> college student or recent grad. >>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>> it opens up more doors >>> >> to >>> >> you. >>> >> >>> >> Ashley >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list' >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Ian, >>> >> >>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>> Friday. Here is what >>> >> I >>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>> only facts and not color >>> >> those >>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>> will clearly state that >>> >> if >>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>> one should attend this >>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>> say no. But I am not >>> >> you >>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>> experienced here has >>> >> colored >>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>> >> >>> >> The facts: >>> >> >>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>> valuables go missing. >>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>> codes. (just one >>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>> wings, and though the >>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>> not mention this, except >>> >> this >>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>> by any kind of panels) >>> >> inside >>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>> splashed. I brought >>> >> this >>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>> mine is not the only >>> >> one >>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>> clients.) >>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>> building is full of >>> >> bugs. >>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>> bugs were found even >>> >> in >>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>> not leave food in >>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>> them etc.) >>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>> >> and >>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>> all except cafeteria >>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>> exist, but they do not work >>> >> very >>> >> well. >>> >> >>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>> talk about, but they >>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>> really are just normal >>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>> college dorm, except they >>> >> are >>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>> scaled down hugely. >>> >> So >>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>> could go to a dining >>> >> hall >>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>> meals at the times >>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>> that anyone can argue that >>> >> when >>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>> schedule, and while this is >>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>> that we can't even >>> >> have >>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>> may maintain the >>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>> >> >>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>> not affect anyone, but >>> >> I >>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>> would be doing a great >>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>> center. >>> >> >>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>> authority figure. He was >>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>> approaching the baggage claim >>> >> with >>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>> authority figure approached me >>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>> waist, hugged me to >>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>> female passenger who >>> >> had >>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>> control from there, but >>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>> and said, "How was your trip, >>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>> you're home!" >>> >> >>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>> beginning, should have >>> >> been >>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>> father, and possibly >>> >> even >>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>> minimally since my arrival at >>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>> >> what >>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>> regardless of setting. >>> >> >>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>> only you can decide that >>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>> man who did this to me was >>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>> reported multiple times >>> >> by >>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>> another, and still holds >>> >> >>> >> a >>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>> going on here that I am >>> >> unaware >>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> >> >>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>> regardless of that, I >>> >> could >>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>> >> >>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>> it does not, please know >>> >> that >>> >> I wish you all the best. >>> >> >>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> >> Impossible is not a word >>> >> It's just a reason >>> >> For someone not to try >>> >> >>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>> >> When they decide to take that step >>> >> Out on the water >>> >> It'll be alright >>> >> >>> >> Life is so much more >>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> >> You will find your way >>> >> If you keep believing" >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> >> Behalf >>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Ian, >>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>> to go there on to >>> >> stay >>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>> say is that LWSB has >>> >> made >>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>> think about visiting >>> >> there >>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>> an option to live off >>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>> sign in and sign out >>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>> sign in and sign out policy >>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>> however, this is know >>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>> everyone blind and >>> >> sighted has to do. >>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>> and frankly since you >>> >> have >>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>> it is a guarantied >>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>> start at 45,000 or more. >>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>> above LWSB now known as >>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>> changes under the new >>> >> director >>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>> As I said earlier, I >>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>> decision. >>> >> >>> >> Anmol >>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> make me sad. Perhaps >>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>> is vague, like a >>> >> breeze >>> >> among flowers. >>> >> Hellen Keller >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>> >>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>> LWSB for one of their >>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>> general? >>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>> was reading the manual, >>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>> environment, even >>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>> instance, you have to >>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>> like that. Have any of >>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>> experiences were. Since >>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>> not as independent of an >>> >>> environment. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> >>> oo.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 03:50:54 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:50:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't think we need. They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without problems, and I don't have the machine. I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it > sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my understanding > > from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks > on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and probably > > a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, its > > an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets > than we really do. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > That's what's going on. > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > technology. > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > etc. > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > the need for such machines? > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>> try >>> so >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >>> in >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> graduating from college. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> employment-related assistance and >>>> > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>> to an NFB center >>>> > yourself? >>>> > >>>> > Peter Donahue >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> > She needs job training. >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> and >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>> there for many years. At >>>> >> one >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> Its former blind >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>> reputation for condoning >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> in >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>> failed to address >>>> >> these >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> pay >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> there >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>> for the Blind and the >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>> that picket line. >>>> >> >>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>> center. These centers >>>> >> are >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>> best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber, >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>> commend your efforts in >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>> a good job for >>>> >> someone >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>> that >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>> clients it does. >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>> job program? >>>> >> >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>> bother me. You are in >>>> >> a >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>> they need to account >>>> >> for >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>> to know where >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>> not. >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>> would bother me. As a >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>> my room. >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> to. >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>> definitely nice. >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> and >>>> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>> training or whatever you >>>> >> need. >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>> if you are a current >>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>> it opens up more doors >>>> >> to >>>> >> you. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list' >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> I >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>> only facts and not color >>>> >> those >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>> will clearly state that >>>> >> if >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>> one should attend this >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>> say no. But I am not >>>> >> you >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>> experienced here has >>>> >> colored >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >>>> >> The facts: >>>> >> >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>> valuables go missing. >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>> codes. (just one >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>> wings, and though the >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>> not mention this, except >>>> >> this >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> inside >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>> splashed. I brought >>>> >> this >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>> mine is not the only >>>> >> one >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>> clients.) >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>> building is full of >>>> >> bugs. >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>> bugs were found even >>>> >> in >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>> not leave food in >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>> them etc.) >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> and >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>> all except cafeteria >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> very >>>> >> well. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>> talk about, but they >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>> really are just normal >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>> college dorm, except they >>>> >> are >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> So >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining >>>> >> hall >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>> meals at the times >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> when >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>> that we can't even >>>> >> have >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>> may maintain the >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>> >> >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> I >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>> would be doing a great >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>> center. >>>> >> >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>> authority figure. He was >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> with >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> authority figure approached me >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who >>>> >> had >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>> you're home!" >>>> >> >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>> beginning, should have >>>> >> been >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>> father, and possibly >>>> >> even >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> what >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>> only you can decide that >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>> man who did this to me was >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>> reported multiple times >>>> >> by >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds >>>> >> >>>> >> a >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am >>>> >> unaware >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>> regardless of that, I >>>> >> could >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>> it does not, please know >>>> >> that >>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> Out on the water >>>> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >>>> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> You will find your way >>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >> Behalf >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>> to go there on to >>>> >> stay >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> made >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>> think about visiting >>>> >> there >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>> an option to live off >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>> sign in and sign out >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>> however, this is know >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>> everyone blind and >>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>> and frankly since you >>>> >> have >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>> it is a guarantied >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>> changes under the new >>>> >> director >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>> decision. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anmol >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>> is vague, like a >>>> >> breeze >>>> >> among flowers. >>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >>> Hi >>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>> LWSB for one of their >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>> general? >>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>> was reading the manual, >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>> environment, even >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>> instance, you have to >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>> like that. Have any of >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since >>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>> not as independent of an >>>> >>> environment. >>>> >>> Ian >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 03:53:31 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:53:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> Anmol, excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational skills to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to be a US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. They also find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I ran into? An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going to WSB was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and that the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, I can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee a job afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful case closures mean they keep the funding they have. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any organization. They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit hall at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some on this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the facts. The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is there now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an employment track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a training center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an independent living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job in providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I personally understand the value of how independent living training is important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do as well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of independent training for a blind person. To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the starting salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to decide if you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > I suspect that certain students or > staff at WSB are ACB members and > try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a > particular > organizational position. > Arielle > > On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > wrote: > > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock > chapter of the NFB > > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if > according to you they try so > > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they > allow the NFB meet in > > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does > not meet there? > > > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > > >> From: Joshua Lester > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > >> > >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >> graduating from college. > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> wrote: > >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >> > > >> > Let' sleet her decide if she > >> would benefit from a complete training > >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have > >> employment-related assistance and > >> > > >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have > you been > >> to an NFB center > >> > yourself? > >> > > >> > Peter Donahue > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list" > >> > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> > > >> > > >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. > >> > She needs job training. > >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > >> > Thanks, Joshua > >> > > >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> wrote: > >> >> Good morning everyone, > >> >> > >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >> >> and > >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment > of the > >> blind persons it claims > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have > existed > >> there for many years. At > >> >> one > >> >> time it was accredited by the National > >> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically > Handicapped (NAC.) > >> Its former blind > >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had > a > >> reputation for condoning > >> >> practices that often led to blind persons > being > >> abused, mistreated, and > >> >> in > >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid > less > >> than the Federal minimum > >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of > Accreditation" > >> failed to address > >> >> these > >> >> issues. For example the standards called > for the > >> agency's grounds to be > >> >> pleasant but did not require the > sheltered > >> workshops they accredited to > >> >> pay > >> >> all employees including the blind > employees the > >> Federal minimum wage. > >> >> > >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual > >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >> >> there > >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas > Enterprises > >> for the Blind and the > >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were > picketed by the > >> NFB. While at AEB a > >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there > were > >> problems and that it needed > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I > were on > >> that picket line. > >> >> > >> >> Judging from what I've read > >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at > agencies such > >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB > training > >> center. These centers > >> >> are > >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. > All the > >> best. > >> >> > >> >> Peter Donahue > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list" > >> >> > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Amber, > >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first > that I > >> commend your efforts in > >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I > think you did > >> a good job for > >> >> someone > >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've > also > >> heard bad rumors about it. > >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real > surprised > >> that > >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting > the > >> clients it does. > >> >> Which program were you in? Independent > living? or a > >> job program? > >> >> > >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out > doesn't > >> bother me. You are in > >> >> a > >> >> training setting and with this litigious > society, > >> they need to account > >> >> for > >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? > They need > >> to know where > >> >> everyone > >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are > never found. > >> Youwouldn't want your > >> >> parents or friends or family calling and > them > >> saying, oh, we do not know > >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus > or > >> not. > >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or > fridge > >> would bother me. As a > >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own > fridge in > >> my room. > >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold > drink or > >> cold snack when I wanted > >> >> to. > >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, > this was > >> definitely nice. > >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that > I eat > >> late at home; between 7 > >> >> and > >> >> 8pm. > >> >> > >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good > personal > >> decision to leave. So I wish > >> >> you luck in your next decision to find > decent > >> training or whatever you > >> >> need. > >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm > not sure > >> if you are a current > >> >> college student or recent grad. > >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you > can as > >> it opens up more doors > >> >> to > >> >> you. > >> >> > >> >> Ashley > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list' > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Ian, > >> >> > >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to > leave on > >> Friday. Here is what > >> >> I > >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to > give > >> only facts and not color > >> >> those > >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I > begin, I > >> will clearly state that > >> >> if > >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to > whether or not > >> one should attend this > >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to > >> say no. But I am not > >> >> you > >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I > have > >> experienced here has > >> >> colored > >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >> >> > >> >> The facts: > >> >> > >> >> *Several students (including myself) have > had > >> valuables go missing. > >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and > safety > >> codes. (just one > >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had > chicken > >> wings, and though the > >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I > would > >> not mention this, except > >> >> this > >> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not > protected > >> by any kind of panels) > >> >> inside > >> >> the actual stall where water could be > accidentally > >> splashed. I brought > >> >> this > >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over > mine, but > >> mine is not the only > >> >> one > >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed > by other > >> clients.) > >> >> *Despite several complaints from many > clients, the > >> building is full of > >> >> bugs. > >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to > spray, but > >> bugs were found even > >> >> in > >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. > (read as, do > >> not leave food in > >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food > still on > >> them etc.) > >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >> >> and > >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or > nothing at > >> all except cafeteria > >> >> food. There are microwaves that > physically > >> exist, but they do not work > >> >> very > >> >> well. > >> >> > >> >> Now I can say that there are other things > I could > >> talk about, but they > >> >> probably come down to personal preference > and > >> really are just normal > >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on > any > >> college dorm, except they > >> >> are > >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that > everything is > >> scaled down hugely. > >> >> So > >> >> while, for example, on most college > campuses, you > >> could go to a dining > >> >> hall > >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not > come to > >> meals at the times > >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am > sure > >> that anyone can argue that > >> >> when > >> >> in school, you have to work with a > particular > >> schedule, and while this is > >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with > the fact > >> that we can't even > >> >> have > >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms > so that we > >> may maintain the > >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for > us. > >> >> > >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing > and may > >> not affect anyone, but > >> >> I > >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did > not, I > >> would be doing a great > >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending > this > >> center. > >> >> > >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by > an > >> authority figure. He was > >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > >> approaching the baggage claim > >> >> with > >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This > >> authority figure approached me > >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm > around my > >> waist, hugged me to > >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and > told the > >> female passenger who > >> >> had > >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it > under > >> control from there, but > >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at > me > >> and said, "How was your trip, > >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so > glad > >> you're home!" > >> >> > >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in > the > >> beginning, should have > >> >> been > >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough > to be my > >> father, and possibly > >> >> even > >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with > me > >> minimally since my arrival at > >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. > Basically, > >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> >> what > >> >> one would call professional or even > acceptable > >> regardless of setting. > >> >> > >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this > center; > >> only you can decide that > >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is > that the > >> man who did this to me was > >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, > has been > >> reported multiple times > >> >> by > >> >> other females that he has violated in one > way or > >> another, and still holds > >> >> > >> >> a > >> >> job here. I believe there is something > big > >> going on here that I am > >> >> unaware > >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >> >> > >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people > here, but > >> regardless of that, I > >> >> could > >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >> >> > >> >> I hope this helps you make your > decision. If > >> it does not, please know > >> >> that > >> >> I wish you all the best. > >> >> > >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >> >> Impossible is not a word > >> >> It's just a reason > >> >> For someone not to try > >> >> > >> >> Everybody's scared to death > >> >> When they decide to take that step > >> >> Out on the water > >> >> It'll be alright > >> >> > >> >> Life is so much more > >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >> >> You will find your way > >> >> If you keep believing" > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> On > >> >> Behalf > >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Ian, > >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, > but I used > >> to go there on to > >> >> stay > >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only > thing I can > >> say is that LWSB has > >> >> made > >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I > would > >> think about visiting > >> >> there > >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They > do have > >> an option to live off > >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a > >> sign in and sign out > >> >> policy after class time. Now they may > have > >> sign in and sign out policy > >> >> during class time to keep count of > attendance, > >> however, this is know > >> >> different signing in and signing out of > work which > >> everyone blind and > >> >> sighted has to do. > >> >> The IRS program is one of the best > programs there > >> and frankly since you > >> >> have > >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS > offices, > >> it is a guarantied > >> >> employment after completing the program > and they > >> start at 45,000 or more. > >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as > I said > >> above LWSB now known as > >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot > of > >> changes under the new > >> >> director > >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the > food is now. > >> As I said earlier, I > >> >> would make a visit there before making any > kind of > >> decision. > >> >> > >> >> Anmol > >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and > they never > >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it > >> is vague, like a > >> >> breeze > >> >> among flowers. > >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students" > >> > >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >> >>> Hi > >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have > attended > >> LWSB for one of their > >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB > in > >> general? > >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS > programs, and > >> was reading the manual, > >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and > structured > >> environment, even > >> >>> though most of the participants are > adults. For > >> instance, you have to > >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere > and things > >> like that. Have any of > >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear > what your > >> experiences were. Since > >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like > it’s > >> not as independent of an > >> >>> environment. > >> >>> Ian > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get > >> your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >> >>> oo.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 03:57:02 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:57:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Computer Message-ID: <5006341b.07b3320a.019f.0ab4@mx.google.com> Amber and Tyler, So true. I'll need to take all this and absorb it so that there's something to kick Rehab's butt, if I say so myself, and get them to buy me the right computer so that I don't have to ask my parents or friends to purchase a computer for me. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: Yes mac has a word processor called text edit. I don't think rehab deals with macs??hey don't in my state any way. Good Luck. On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Beth wrote: I'm in the market for a Mac. I have a question about Macs. Is there a word processor for Mac? Does it come with a Microsoft Word for Mac or something? I'm wondering because I need a computer for college and rehab will probably be buying it when I give them my two cents. ... Anyway, that's all I have to say. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello everyone, The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people going into the field with more experience both in the use of the technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of the technology. Thanks. On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it > sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my understanding > > from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks > on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and probably > > a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, its > > an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets > than we really do. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > That's what's going on. > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > technology. > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > etc. > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > the need for such machines? > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>> try >>> so >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >>> in >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> graduating from college. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> employment-related assistance and >>>> > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>> to an NFB center >>>> > yourself? >>>> > >>>> > Peter Donahue >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> > She needs job training. >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> and >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>> there for many years. At >>>> >> one >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> Its former blind >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>> reputation for condoning >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> in >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>> failed to address >>>> >> these >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> pay >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> there >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>> for the Blind and the >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>> that picket line. >>>> >> >>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>> center. These centers >>>> >> are >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>> best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber, >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>> commend your efforts in >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>> a good job for >>>> >> someone >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>> that >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>> clients it does. >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>> job program? >>>> >> >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>> bother me. You are in >>>> >> a >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>> they need to account >>>> >> for >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>> to know where >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>> not. >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>> would bother me. As a >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>> my room. >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> to. >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>> definitely nice. >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> and >>>> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>> training or whatever you >>>> >> need. >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>> if you are a current >>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>> it opens up more doors >>>> >> to >>>> >> you. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list' >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> I >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>> only facts and not color >>>> >> those >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>> will clearly state that >>>> >> if >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>> one should attend this >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>> say no. But I am not >>>> >> you >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>> experienced here has >>>> >> colored >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >>>> >> The facts: >>>> >> >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>> valuables go missing. >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>> codes. (just one >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>> wings, and though the >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>> not mention this, except >>>> >> this >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> inside >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>> splashed. I brought >>>> >> this >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>> mine is not the only >>>> >> one >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>> clients.) >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>> building is full of >>>> >> bugs. >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>> bugs were found even >>>> >> in >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>> not leave food in >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>> them etc.) >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> and >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>> all except cafeteria >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> very >>>> >> well. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>> talk about, but they >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>> really are just normal >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>> college dorm, except they >>>> >> are >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> So >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining >>>> >> hall >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>> meals at the times >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> when >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>> that we can't even >>>> >> have >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>> may maintain the >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>> >> >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> I >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>> would be doing a great >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>> center. >>>> >> >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>> authority figure. He was >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> with >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> authority figure approached me >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who >>>> >> had >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>> you're home!" >>>> >> >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>> beginning, should have >>>> >> been >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>> father, and possibly >>>> >> even >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> what >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>> only you can decide that >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>> man who did this to me was >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>> reported multiple times >>>> >> by >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds >>>> >> >>>> >> a >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am >>>> >> unaware >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>> regardless of that, I >>>> >> could >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>> it does not, please know >>>> >> that >>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> Out on the water >>>> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >>>> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> You will find your way >>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >> Behalf >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>> to go there on to >>>> >> stay >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> made >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>> think about visiting >>>> >> there >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>> an option to live off >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>> sign in and sign out >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>> however, this is know >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>> everyone blind and >>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>> and frankly since you >>>> >> have >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>> it is a guarantied >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>> changes under the new >>>> >> director >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>> decision. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anmol >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>> is vague, like a >>>> >> breeze >>>> >> among flowers. >>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >>> Hi >>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>> LWSB for one of their >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>> general? >>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>> was reading the manual, >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>> environment, even >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>> instance, you have to >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>> like that. Have any of >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since >>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>> not as independent of an >>>> >>> environment. >>>> >>> Ian >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:00:12 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:00:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8588479234D2480180CE047E37E13DFD@OwnerPC> Carley, It depends. if they stare a lot I have issue. its rude to do that as a norm. Why should they do that just because I cannot see? If they do it ocasionally, I suppose its okay. But someone doing it a while watching my moves makes me un comfortable. I don't usually know if they stare unless someone I'm with says so. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > LOL! > > That's a good one! > > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> > >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> Hi Katie, > >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> well. I > >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> telling > >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> far as > >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> already > >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> It's > >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> grow up. > >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> yourself > >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> though > >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> Get > >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> them that > >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> do is > >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> get > >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> where > >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> example, I am > >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> I am > >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> get my > >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> taking > >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> with me. > >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> begin, and > >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> questions > >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> year. > >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> for > >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> vision, then > >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> and > >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> out to > >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> succeed. > >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> college as > >> well. > >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> Center > >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> college > >> and in myself too. > >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> away > >> from my home town and family. > >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> well! > >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> time > >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> Cheers! > >> Liliya > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> this fall. > >> I > >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> couldn't see. > >> In > >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> again. Any > >> advice would be helpful. > >> THANKS > >> > >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 04:01:35 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:01:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717205527.01c265b8@comcast.net> Hi, Brandon, I too, HATE for my stick to be fondled and you're right, it's almost akin to being touched in some unassuming place on my body. so, in efforts of effecting some shock which I hope is memorable, I simply let go of the cane and let them walk off with blind girl conspicuously, unattached. Car At 07:37 PM 7/17/2012, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >Hello, >This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I >haven't found a way to prevent it. >When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm >holding their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're >approaching stairs. >I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >it's on the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as >offensive to me as if someone randomly started touching me >inappropriately on purpose. >Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? >Because it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't >cuss them out, because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. >I ask them nicely to please not touch my cane and pull it out of >their grip, but I still feel violated and some people will grab it >again after I asked them not to. >I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about >blindness, but I really have no idea how to prevent it. >If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >Evening, Katie, > >Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >think of this? >At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>Katie, >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >>Patrick >> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > LOL! >> > That's a good one! >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> > >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >> Hi Katie, >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >> well. I >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >> telling >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >> far as >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >> already >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >> It's >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >> grow up. >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >> yourself >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >> though >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >> Get >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >> them that >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >> do is >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >> get >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >> where >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >> example, I am >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >> I am >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >> get my >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >> taking >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >> with me. >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >> begin, and >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >> questions >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >> year. >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >> for >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >> vision, then >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >> and >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >> out to >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >> succeed. >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >> college as >> >> well. >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >> Center >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >> college >> >> and in myself too. >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >> away >> >> from my home town and family. >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >> well! >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >> time >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >> Cheers! >> >> Liliya >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >> this fall. >> >> I >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >> couldn't see. >> >> In >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >> again. Any >> >> advice would be helpful. >> >> THANKS >> >> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:04:12 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:04:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> Message-ID: Amber, Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad you have your independence skills already. Yes the certification sounds like a good idea if that is what you want to do. Good luck pursuing that and your goals. I agree they stay open for the IRS training. It’s a good way to get into the federal government which is rather competetive. Alsothere courses are comprehensive from what I've heard. Getting a well paying job at 45k a year with benefits is appealing to many so I'm sure that is how they attract clients. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:38 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ashley, I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have decided to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to anyone looking for any kind of certification for assistive technology. Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 month course in assistive technology. As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who come here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted into the program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can gather and present to anyone who would do anything. I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit through my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as evidenced by the lie that my state counselor caught him in. Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been taken care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. This was not discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I mentioned it in passing while on the phone with her, but the point is that he didn't say that he would check to be sure it had been taken care of, or that he had sent out requests for it to be taken care of, but he assured her that it absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days later, but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things change here because not enough people at one time makes a big enough deal about the problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they choose not to come back, it all gets swept under the rug. Wash, rinse, repeat. Best, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Amber, Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and 8pm. Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current college student or recent grad. If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Herrin, Amber R. Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. The facts: *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. Amber R. Herrin Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Ian, I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > From: Ian Perrault > Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students" > Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > Hi > I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their > employment training programs, or LWSB in general? > I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, > and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even > though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to > sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of > you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since > I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an > environment. > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > oo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 04:05:01 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:05:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we would get if even several states had a center of this nature. On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Anmol, > excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance > requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. > You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational skills > to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to be a > US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. They also > find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I ran > into? > An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going to WSB > was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and that > the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. > > If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, I > can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee a job > afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful case > closures mean they keep the funding they have. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any organization. > They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit hall > at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some on > this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the > comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the > facts. > The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is there > now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into > consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an employment > track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a training > center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an independent > living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job in > providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I > personally understand the value of how independent living training is > important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do as > well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to > largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of > independent training for a blind person. > To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the starting > salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to decide if > you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean > building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >> I suspect that certain students or >> staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >> particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >> wrote: >> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >> chapter of the NFB >> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >> according to you they try so >> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >> allow the NFB meet in >> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >> not meet there? >> > >> > Anmol >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >> vague, like a breeze >> > among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> >> graduating from college. >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> wrote: >> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> >> > >> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >> >> would benefit from a complete training >> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> >> employment-related assistance and >> >> > >> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >> you been >> >> to an NFB center >> >> > yourself? >> >> > >> >> > Peter Donahue >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> >> list" >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> >> > She needs job training. >> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> >> > Thanks, Joshua >> >> > >> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> >> and >> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >> of the >> >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >> existed >> >> there for many years. At >> >> >> one >> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >> Handicapped (NAC.) >> >> Its former blind >> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >> a >> >> reputation for condoning >> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >> being >> >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> >> in >> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >> less >> >> than the Federal minimum >> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >> Accreditation" >> >> failed to address >> >> >> these >> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >> for the >> >> agency's grounds to be >> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >> sheltered >> >> workshops they accredited to >> >> >> pay >> >> >> all employees including the blind >> employees the >> >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> >> there >> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >> Enterprises >> >> for the Blind and the >> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >> picketed by the >> >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >> were >> >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >> were on >> >> that picket line. >> >> >> >> >> >> Judging from what I've read >> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >> agencies such >> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >> training >> >> center. These centers >> >> >> are >> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >> All the >> >> best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list" >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >> that I >> >> commend your efforts in >> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >> think you did >> >> a good job for >> >> >> someone >> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >> also >> >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >> surprised >> >> that >> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >> the >> >> clients it does. >> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >> living? or a >> >> job program? >> >> >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >> doesn't >> >> bother me. You are in >> >> >> a >> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >> society, >> >> they need to account >> >> >> for >> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >> They need >> >> to know where >> >> >> everyone >> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >> never found. >> >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >> them >> >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >> or >> >> not. >> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >> fridge >> >> would bother me. As a >> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >> fridge in >> >> my room. >> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >> drink or >> >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> >> to. >> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >> this was >> >> definitely nice. >> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >> I eat >> >> late at home; between 7 >> >> >> and >> >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >> personal >> >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >> decent >> >> training or whatever you >> >> >> need. >> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >> not sure >> >> if you are a current >> >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >> can as >> >> it opens up more doors >> >> >> to >> >> >> you. >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list' >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >> leave on >> >> Friday. Here is what >> >> >> I >> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >> give >> >> only facts and not color >> >> >> those >> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >> begin, I >> >> will clearly state that >> >> >> if >> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >> whether or not >> >> one should attend this >> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >> have to >> >> say no. But I am not >> >> >> you >> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >> have >> >> experienced here has >> >> >> colored >> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >> >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >> had >> >> valuables go missing. >> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >> safety >> >> codes. (just one >> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >> chicken >> >> wings, and though the >> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >> would >> >> not mention this, except >> >> >> this >> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >> protected >> >> by any kind of panels) >> >> >> inside >> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >> accidentally >> >> splashed. I brought >> >> >> this >> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >> mine, but >> >> mine is not the only >> >> >> one >> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >> by other >> >> clients.) >> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >> clients, the >> >> building is full of >> >> >> bugs. >> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >> spray, but >> >> bugs were found even >> >> >> in >> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >> (read as, do >> >> not leave food in >> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >> still on >> >> them etc.) >> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> >> and >> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >> nothing at >> >> all except cafeteria >> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >> physically >> >> exist, but they do not work >> >> >> very >> >> >> well. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >> I could >> >> talk about, but they >> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >> and >> >> really are just normal >> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >> any >> >> college dorm, except they >> >> >> are >> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >> everything is >> >> scaled down hugely. >> >> >> So >> >> >> while, for example, on most college >> campuses, you >> >> could go to a dining >> >> >> hall >> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >> come to >> >> meals at the times >> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >> sure >> >> that anyone can argue that >> >> >> when >> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >> particular >> >> schedule, and while this is >> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >> the fact >> >> that we can't even >> >> >> have >> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >> so that we >> >> may maintain the >> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >> us. >> >> >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >> and may >> >> not affect anyone, but >> >> >> I >> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >> not, I >> >> would be doing a great >> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >> this >> >> center. >> >> >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >> an >> >> authority figure. He was >> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> >> with >> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >> >> authority figure approached me >> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >> around my >> >> waist, hugged me to >> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >> told the >> >> female passenger who >> >> >> had >> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >> under >> >> control from there, but >> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >> me >> >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >> glad >> >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >> the >> >> beginning, should have >> >> >> been >> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >> to be my >> >> father, and possibly >> >> >> even >> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >> me >> >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >> Basically, >> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> >> what >> >> >> one would call professional or even >> acceptable >> >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >> center; >> >> only you can decide that >> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >> that the >> >> man who did this to me was >> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >> has been >> >> reported multiple times >> >> >> by >> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >> way or >> >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >> big >> >> going on here that I am >> >> >> unaware >> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >> here, but >> >> regardless of that, I >> >> >> could >> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >> decision. If >> >> it does not, please know >> >> >> that >> >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> >> It's just a reason >> >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >> >> Out on the water >> >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> >> You will find your way >> >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> >> Behalf >> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> >> list >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >> but I used >> >> to go there on to >> >> >> stay >> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >> thing I can >> >> say is that LWSB has >> >> >> made >> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >> would >> >> think about visiting >> >> >> there >> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >> do have >> >> an option to live off >> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >> is not a >> >> sign in and sign out >> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >> have >> >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> >> during class time to keep count of >> attendance, >> >> however, this is know >> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >> work which >> >> everyone blind and >> >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >> programs there >> >> and frankly since you >> >> >> have >> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >> offices, >> >> it is a guarantied >> >> >> employment after completing the program >> and they >> >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >> I said >> >> above LWSB now known as >> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >> of >> >> changes under the new >> >> >> director >> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >> food is now. >> >> As I said earlier, I >> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >> kind of >> >> decision. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >> they never >> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >> times; but it >> >> is vague, like a >> >> >> breeze >> >> >> among flowers. >> >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students" >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >> >>> Hi >> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have >> attended >> >> LWSB for one of their >> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >> in >> >> general? >> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS >> programs, and >> >> was reading the manual, >> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >> structured >> >> environment, even >> >> >>> though most of the participants are >> adults. For >> >> instance, you have to >> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >> and things >> >> like that. Have any of >> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear >> what your >> >> experiences were. Since >> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like >> it’s >> >> not as independent of an >> >> >>> environment. >> >> >>> Ian >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >> >>> oo.com >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get >> >> your account info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your >> >> account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your >> >> account info for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:08:49 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:08:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I agree. These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a > good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we > would get if even several states had a center of this nature. > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Anmol, >> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance >> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. >> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational >> skills >> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to be >> a >> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. They >> also >> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I >> ran >> into? >> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going to >> WSB >> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and >> that >> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. >> >> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, I >> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee a >> job >> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful case >> closures mean they keep the funding they have. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any >> organization. >> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit >> hall >> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some >> on >> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the >> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the >> facts. >> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is >> there >> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into >> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an >> employment >> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a training >> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an >> independent >> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job >> in >> providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I >> personally understand the value of how independent living training is >> important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do >> as >> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to >> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of >> independent training for a blind person. >> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the starting >> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to decide >> if >> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean >> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >>> I suspect that certain students or >>> staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >>> particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >>> wrote: >>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >>> chapter of the NFB >>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >>> according to you they try so >>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >>> allow the NFB meet in >>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >>> not meet there? >>> > >>> > Anmol >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> make me sad. Perhaps >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >>> vague, like a breeze >>> > among flowers. >>> > Hellen Keller >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> From: Joshua Lester >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> Training Programs >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> >> >>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>> >> graduating from college. >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>> >> >>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>> >> > >>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>> >> would benefit from a complete training >>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>> >> employment-related assistance and >>> >> > >>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >>> you been >>> >> to an NFB center >>> >> > yourself? >>> >> > >>> >> > Peter Donahue >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> >> list" >>> >> > >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> Employment >>> >> Training Programs >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>> >> > She needs job training. >>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>> >> > Thanks, Joshua >>> >> > >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >> Good morning everyone, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >>> of the >>> >> blind persons it claims >>> >> >> >>> >> >> to >>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >>> existed >>> >> there for many years. At >>> >> >> one >>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >>> Handicapped (NAC.) >>> >> Its former blind >>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >>> a >>> >> reputation for condoning >>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >>> being >>> >> abused, mistreated, and >>> >> >> in >>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >>> less >>> >> than the Federal minimum >>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >>> Accreditation" >>> >> failed to address >>> >> >> these >>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >>> for the >>> >> agency's grounds to be >>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >>> sheltered >>> >> workshops they accredited to >>> >> >> pay >>> >> >> all employees including the blind >>> employees the >>> >> Federal minimum wage. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>> >> >> there >>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >>> Enterprises >>> >> for the Blind and the >>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >>> picketed by the >>> >> NFB. While at AEB a >>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >>> were >>> >> problems and that it needed >>> >> >> >>> >> >> to >>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >>> were on >>> >> that picket line. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Judging from what I've read >>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >>> agencies such >>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >>> training >>> >> center. These centers >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >>> All the >>> >> best. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Peter Donahue >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing >>> >> list" >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> Employment >>> >> Training Programs >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Amber, >>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >>> that I >>> >> commend your efforts in >>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >>> think you did >>> >> a good job for >>> >> >> someone >>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >>> also >>> >> heard bad rumors about it. >>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >>> surprised >>> >> that >>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >>> the >>> >> clients it does. >>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >>> living? or a >>> >> job program? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >>> doesn't >>> >> bother me. You are in >>> >> >> a >>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >>> society, >>> >> they need to account >>> >> >> for >>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >>> They need >>> >> to know where >>> >> >> everyone >>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >>> never found. >>> >> Youwouldn't want your >>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >>> them >>> >> saying, oh, we do not know >>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >>> or >>> >> not. >>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >>> fridge >>> >> would bother me. As a >>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >>> fridge in >>> >> my room. >>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >>> drink or >>> >> cold snack when I wanted >>> >> >> to. >>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >>> this was >>> >> definitely nice. >>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >>> I eat >>> >> late at home; between 7 >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> 8pm. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >>> personal >>> >> decision to leave. So I wish >>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >>> decent >>> >> training or whatever you >>> >> >> need. >>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >>> not sure >>> >> if you are a current >>> >> >> college student or recent grad. >>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >>> can as >>> >> it opens up more doors >>> >> >> to >>> >> >> you. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ashley >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing >>> >> list' >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> Employment >>> >> Training Programs >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ian, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >>> leave on >>> >> Friday. Here is what >>> >> >> I >>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >>> give >>> >> only facts and not color >>> >> >> those >>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >>> begin, I >>> >> will clearly state that >>> >> >> if >>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >>> whether or not >>> >> one should attend this >>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >>> have to >>> >> say no. But I am not >>> >> >> you >>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >>> have >>> >> experienced here has >>> >> >> colored >>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> The facts: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >>> had >>> >> valuables go missing. >>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >>> safety >>> >> codes. (just one >>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >>> chicken >>> >> wings, and though the >>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >>> would >>> >> not mention this, except >>> >> >> this >>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >>> protected >>> >> by any kind of panels) >>> >> >> inside >>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >>> accidentally >>> >> splashed. I brought >>> >> >> this >>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >>> mine, but >>> >> mine is not the only >>> >> >> one >>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >>> by other >>> >> clients.) >>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >>> clients, the >>> >> building is full of >>> >> >> bugs. >>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >>> spray, but >>> >> bugs were found even >>> >> >> in >>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >>> (read as, do >>> >> not leave food in >>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >>> still on >>> >> them etc.) >>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >>> nothing at >>> >> all except cafeteria >>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >>> physically >>> >> exist, but they do not work >>> >> >> very >>> >> >> well. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >>> I could >>> >> talk about, but they >>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >>> and >>> >> really are just normal >>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >>> any >>> >> college dorm, except they >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >>> everything is >>> >> scaled down hugely. >>> >> >> So >>> >> >> while, for example, on most college >>> campuses, you >>> >> could go to a dining >>> >> >> hall >>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >>> come to >>> >> meals at the times >>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >>> sure >>> >> that anyone can argue that >>> >> >> when >>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >>> particular >>> >> schedule, and while this is >>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >>> the fact >>> >> that we can't even >>> >> >> have >>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >>> so that we >>> >> may maintain the >>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >>> us. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >>> and may >>> >> not affect anyone, but >>> >> >> I >>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >>> not, I >>> >> would be doing a great >>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >>> this >>> >> center. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >>> an >>> >> authority figure. He was >>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>> >> approaching the baggage claim >>> >> >> with >>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>> >> authority figure approached me >>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >>> around my >>> >> waist, hugged me to >>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >>> told the >>> >> female passenger who >>> >> >> had >>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >>> under >>> >> control from there, but >>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >>> me >>> >> and said, "How was your trip, >>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >>> glad >>> >> you're home!" >>> >> >> >>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >>> the >>> >> beginning, should have >>> >> >> been >>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >>> to be my >>> >> father, and possibly >>> >> >> even >>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >>> me >>> >> minimally since my arrival at >>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >>> Basically, >>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>> >> >> what >>> >> >> one would call professional or even >>> acceptable >>> >> regardless of setting. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >>> center; >>> >> only you can decide that >>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >>> that the >>> >> man who did this to me was >>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >>> has been >>> >> reported multiple times >>> >> >> by >>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >>> way or >>> >> another, and still holds >>> >> >> >>> >> >> a >>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >>> big >>> >> going on here that I am >>> >> >> unaware >>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >>> here, but >>> >> regardless of that, I >>> >> >> could >>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >>> decision. If >>> >> it does not, please know >>> >> >> that >>> >> >> I wish you all the best. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> >> >> Impossible is not a word >>> >> >> It's just a reason >>> >> >> For someone not to try >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >>> >> >> When they decide to take that step >>> >> >> Out on the water >>> >> >> It'll be alright >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Life is so much more >>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> >> >> You will find your way >>> >> >> If you keep believing" >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> >> On >>> >> >> Behalf >>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> >> list >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> Employment >>> >> Training Programs >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ian, >>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >>> but I used >>> >> to go there on to >>> >> >> stay >>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >>> thing I can >>> >> say is that LWSB has >>> >> >> made >>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >>> would >>> >> think about visiting >>> >> >> there >>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >>> do have >>> >> an option to live off >>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >>> is not a >>> >> sign in and sign out >>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >>> have >>> >> sign in and sign out policy >>> >> >> during class time to keep count of >>> attendance, >>> >> however, this is know >>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >>> work which >>> >> everyone blind and >>> >> >> sighted has to do. >>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >>> programs there >>> >> and frankly since you >>> >> >> have >>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >>> offices, >>> >> it is a guarantied >>> >> >> employment after completing the program >>> and they >>> >> start at 45,000 or more. >>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >>> I said >>> >> above LWSB now known as >>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >>> of >>> >> changes under the new >>> >> >> director >>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >>> food is now. >>> >> As I said earlier, I >>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >>> kind of >>> >> decision. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Anmol >>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >>> they never >>> >> make me sad. Perhaps >>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >>> times; but it >>> >> is vague, like a >>> >> >> breeze >>> >> >> among flowers. >>> >> >> Hellen Keller >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> Employment >>> >> Training Programs >>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >>> Students" >>> >> >>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> >> >>> Hi >>> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have >>> attended >>> >> LWSB for one of their >>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >>> in >>> >> general? >>> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS >>> programs, and >>> >> was reading the manual, >>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >>> structured >>> >> environment, even >>> >> >>> though most of the participants are >>> adults. For >>> >> instance, you have to >>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >>> and things >>> >> like that. Have any of >>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear >>> what your >>> >> experiences were. Since >>> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like >>> it’s >>> >> not as independent of an >>> >> >>> environment. >>> >> >>> Ian >>> >> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get >>> >> your account info for >>> >> >>> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> >> >>> oo.com >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get >>> >> your account info for >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get >>> >> your account info for >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get >>> >> your account info for >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get >>> >> your account info for >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your >>> >> account info for >>> >> > nabs-l: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your >>> >> account info for >>> >> > nabs-l: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 04:11:09 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:11:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Well, that's interesting. I think I might look into this Access Technology Institute, just to see what it offers. Now, don't anybody take this the wrong way, but how useful is a certification in teaching assistive technology? Are there many job openings for it? I understand that most of these instructors work in training centers, whether they're NFB centers or not, but the state centers, from what I've heard and to a certain extent experienced personally, are shutting down left and right, so I would imagine there would be a decline in the demand for such instructors right there. Of course, the NFB centers have no intention of closing, so there's always that. I don't even know if ATI's would be used in schools. I would think you would have to be a teacher of the visually impaired, which encompasses a lot more than just the technological aspect of things. So what else is out there for people who would want to go this route, and ultimately, is it worth it? On 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > Hello everyone, > > The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is > ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots > and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various > areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would > benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her > textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the > field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their > new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at > WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers > over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a > few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute > concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on > the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of > assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization > for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI > certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will > hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options > for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a > while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people > going into the field with more experience both in the use of the > technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of > the technology. > > Thanks. > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >> understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >> probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >> its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was > addressed. 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Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:11:57 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:11:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> Message-ID: They just need to be careful how they treat their clients, though. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Amber, > Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad you have your independence skills already. > Yes the certification sounds like a good idea if that is what you want to > do. > Good luck pursuing that and your goals. > > I agree they stay open for the IRS training. It’s a good way to get into the > federal government which is rather competetive. Alsothere courses are > comprehensive from what I've heard. Getting a well paying job at 45k a year > with benefits is appealing to many so I'm sure that is how they attract > clients. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:38 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ashley, > > I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive > technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have decided > to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to anyone looking for > any kind of certification for assistive technology. > > Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 month > course in assistive technology. > > As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who come > here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted into the > program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. Others feel > they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can gather and present > to anyone who would do anything. > > I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit through > my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as evidenced by the > lie that my state counselor caught him in. > > Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been taken > care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. This was not > discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I mentioned it in > passing while on the phone with her, but the point is that he didn't say > that he would check to be sure it had been taken care of, or that he had > sent out requests for it to be taken care of, but he assured her that it > absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. > > Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days later, > but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things change here > because not enough people at one time makes a big enough deal about the > problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they choose not to come > back, it all gets swept under the rug. > > Wash, rinse, repeat. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to > stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 and > 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors to > you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those > facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if > you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this > program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you > or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored > my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this > is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not protected > by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be > accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover > over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as > confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many clients, > the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in > my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are > unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are > reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are > exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So > while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall > at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with > a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me > without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had > offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even > my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at > the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what > one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by > other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a > job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware > of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could > never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that > I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made > alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there > before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off > campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out > policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy > during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know > different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have > to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied > employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director > and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I > would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 04:12:47 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:12:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <8588479234D2480180CE047E37E13DFD@OwnerPC> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <8588479234D2480180CE047E37E13DFD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717210750.01c45768@comcast.net> Hey, Ashley,, My blind boyfriend and I simply take it for granted people's watching us. You're not gonna stop it, so why not just accept and get into a fact that, people's education will not always unfold on your own terms? I keep in mind too a situation in which said roles are reversed, I would hope the blind person just sit back and do their thing while I hopefully not rudely, see how they do things. At 09:00 PM 7/17/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Carley, >It depends. if they stare a lot I have issue. its rude to do that as >a norm. Why should they do that just because I cannot see? >If they do it ocasionally, I suppose its okay. But someone doing >it a while watching my moves makes me un comfortable. I don't >usually know if they stare unless someone I'm with says so. > >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:14 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >Evening, Katie, > >Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >think of this? >At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>Katie, >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >>Patrick >> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > LOL! >> > That's a good one! >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> > >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >> Hi Katie, >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >> well. I >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >> telling >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >> far as >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >> already >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >> It's >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >> grow up. >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >> yourself >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >> though >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >> Get >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >> them that >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >> do is >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >> get >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >> where >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >> example, I am >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >> I am >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >> get my >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >> taking >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >> with me. >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >> begin, and >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >> questions >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >> year. >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >> for >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >> vision, then >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >> and >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >> out to >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >> succeed. >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >> college as >> >> well. >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >> Center >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >> college >> >> and in myself too. >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >> away >> >> from my home town and family. >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >> well! >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >> time >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >> Cheers! >> >> Liliya >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >> this fall. >> >> I >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >> couldn't see. >> >> In >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >> again. Any >> >> advice would be helpful. >> >> THANKS >> >> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:15:32 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:15:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> Joshua, I had one of those say wins and I think it broke or something. I may get another one someday. I do think it serves a purpose. If I'm pouring liquids for others, I do not want to touch it. I also think its useful for those who do not have the sensativity in their fingers to feel the liquid as well. All blindness centers will use adaptive tools and techniques to some extent. We have to in order to function. Ideally, a student would be shown ways to do the task with and without the device, so they can decide for themselves. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't think we need. They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without problems, and I don't have the machine. I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it > sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my > understanding > > from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks > on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and > probably > > a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, > its > > an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets > than we really do. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > That's what's going on. > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > technology. > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > etc. > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > the need for such machines? > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>> try >>> so >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >>> in >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> graduating from college. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> employment-related assistance and >>>> > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>> to an NFB center >>>> > yourself? >>>> > >>>> > Peter Donahue >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> > She needs job training. >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> and >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>> there for many years. At >>>> >> one >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> Its former blind >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>> reputation for condoning >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> in >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>> failed to address >>>> >> these >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> pay >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> there >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>> for the Blind and the >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>> that picket line. >>>> >> >>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>> center. These centers >>>> >> are >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>> best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber, >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>> commend your efforts in >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>> a good job for >>>> >> someone >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>> that >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>> clients it does. >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>> job program? >>>> >> >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>> bother me. You are in >>>> >> a >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>> they need to account >>>> >> for >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>> to know where >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>> not. >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>> would bother me. As a >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>> my room. >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> to. >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>> definitely nice. >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> and >>>> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>> training or whatever you >>>> >> need. >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>> if you are a current >>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>> it opens up more doors >>>> >> to >>>> >> you. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list' >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> I >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>> only facts and not color >>>> >> those >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>> will clearly state that >>>> >> if >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>> one should attend this >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>> say no. But I am not >>>> >> you >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>> experienced here has >>>> >> colored >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >>>> >> The facts: >>>> >> >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>> valuables go missing. >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>> codes. (just one >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>> wings, and though the >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>> not mention this, except >>>> >> this >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> inside >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>> splashed. I brought >>>> >> this >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>> mine is not the only >>>> >> one >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>> clients.) >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>> building is full of >>>> >> bugs. >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>> bugs were found even >>>> >> in >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>> not leave food in >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>> them etc.) >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> and >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>> all except cafeteria >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> very >>>> >> well. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>> talk about, but they >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>> really are just normal >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>> college dorm, except they >>>> >> are >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> So >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining >>>> >> hall >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>> meals at the times >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> when >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>> that we can't even >>>> >> have >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>> may maintain the >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>> >> >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> I >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>> would be doing a great >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>> center. >>>> >> >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>> authority figure. He was >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> with >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> authority figure approached me >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who >>>> >> had >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>> you're home!" >>>> >> >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>> beginning, should have >>>> >> been >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>> father, and possibly >>>> >> even >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> what >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>> only you can decide that >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>> man who did this to me was >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>> reported multiple times >>>> >> by >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds >>>> >> >>>> >> a >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am >>>> >> unaware >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>> regardless of that, I >>>> >> could >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>> it does not, please know >>>> >> that >>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> Out on the water >>>> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >>>> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> You will find your way >>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >> Behalf >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>> to go there on to >>>> >> stay >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> made >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>> think about visiting >>>> >> there >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>> an option to live off >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>> sign in and sign out >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>> however, this is know >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>> everyone blind and >>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>> and frankly since you >>>> >> have >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>> it is a guarantied >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>> changes under the new >>>> >> director >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>> decision. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anmol >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>> is vague, like a >>>> >> breeze >>>> >> among flowers. >>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >>> Hi >>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>> LWSB for one of their >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>> general? >>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>> was reading the manual, >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>> environment, even >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>> instance, you have to >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>> like that. Have any of >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since >>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>> not as independent of an >>>> >>> environment. >>>> >>> Ian >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 04:16:45 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:16:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717211505.01c926a0@comcast.net> So why did god give people fingers? I'm almost sure it's not bbecause of a potential, availability of a say-when! How clunky!At 08:50 PM 7/17/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: >I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't >think we need. >They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without >problems, and I don't have the machine. >I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > > Joshua, > > While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it > > sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my > understanding > > > > from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks > > on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer > and probably > > > > a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology > versus not, its > > > > an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets > > than we really do. > > > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua Lester > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > > > That's what's going on. > > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > > technology. > > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > > etc. > > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > > the need for such machines? > > Hmmm! > > Thanks, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and > >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular > >> organizational position. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB > >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they > >>> try > >>> so > >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet > >>> in > >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? > >>> > >>> Anmol > >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a > >>> breeze > >>> among flowers. > >>> Hellen Keller > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> > >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >>>> graduating from college. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >>>> > > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she > >>>> would benefit from a complete training > >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have > >>>> employment-related assistance and > >>>> > > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been > >>>> to an NFB center > >>>> > yourself? > >>>> > > >>>> > Peter Donahue > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>> list" > >>>> > > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >>>> Training Programs > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. > >>>> > She needs job training. > >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > >>>> > Thanks, Joshua > >>>> > > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >> Good morning everyone, > >>>> >> > >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >>>> >> and > >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the > >>>> blind persons it claims > >>>> >> > >>>> >> to > >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed > >>>> there for many years. At > >>>> >> one > >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National > >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) > >>>> Its former blind > >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a > >>>> reputation for condoning > >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being > >>>> abused, mistreated, and > >>>> >> in > >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less > >>>> than the Federal minimum > >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" > >>>> failed to address > >>>> >> these > >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the > >>>> agency's grounds to be > >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered > >>>> workshops they accredited to > >>>> >> pay > >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the > >>>> Federal minimum wage. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual > >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >>>> >> there > >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises > >>>> for the Blind and the > >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the > >>>> NFB. While at AEB a > >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were > >>>> problems and that it needed > >>>> >> > >>>> >> to > >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on > >>>> that picket line. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Judging from what I've read > >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such > >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's > >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training > >>>> center. These centers > >>>> >> are > >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the > >>>> best. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Peter Donahue > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>> list" > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >>>> Training Programs > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Amber, > >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I > >>>> commend your efforts in > >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did > >>>> a good job for > >>>> >> someone > >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also > >>>> heard bad rumors about it. > >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised > >>>> that > >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the > >>>> clients it does. > >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a > >>>> job program? > >>>> >> > >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't > >>>> bother me. You are in > >>>> >> a > >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, > >>>> they need to account > >>>> >> for > >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need > >>>> to know where > >>>> >> everyone > >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. > >>>> Youwouldn't want your > >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them > >>>> saying, oh, we do not know > >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or > >>>> not. > >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge > >>>> would bother me. As a > >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in > >>>> my room. > >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or > >>>> cold snack when I wanted > >>>> >> to. > >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was > >>>> definitely nice. > >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat > >>>> late at home; between 7 > >>>> >> and > >>>> >> 8pm. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal > >>>> decision to leave. So I wish > >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent > >>>> training or whatever you > >>>> >> need. > >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure > >>>> if you are a current > >>>> >> college student or recent grad. > >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as > >>>> it opens up more doors > >>>> >> to > >>>> >> you. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Ashley > >>>> >> -----Original Message----- > >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>> list' > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >>>> Training Programs > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Ian, > >>>> >> > >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on > >>>> Friday. Here is what > >>>> >> I > >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give > >>>> only facts and not color > >>>> >> those > >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I > >>>> will clearly state that > >>>> >> if > >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not > >>>> one should attend this > >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to > >>>> say no. But I am not > >>>> >> you > >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have > >>>> experienced here has > >>>> >> colored > >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> The facts: > >>>> >> > >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had > >>>> valuables go missing. > >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety > >>>> codes. (just one > >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken > >>>> wings, and though the > >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would > >>>> not mention this, except > >>>> >> this > >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected > >>>> by any kind of panels) > >>>> >> inside > >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally > >>>> splashed. I brought > >>>> >> this > >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but > >>>> mine is not the only > >>>> >> one > >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other > >>>> clients.) > >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the > >>>> building is full of > >>>> >> bugs. > >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but > >>>> bugs were found even > >>>> >> in > >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do > >>>> not leave food in > >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on > >>>> them etc.) > >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, > >>>> >> and > >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at > >>>> all except cafeteria > >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically > >>>> exist, but they do not work > >>>> >> very > >>>> >> well. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could > >>>> talk about, but they > >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and > >>>> really are just normal > >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any > >>>> college dorm, except they > >>>> >> are > >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is > >>>> scaled down hugely. > >>>> >> So > >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you > >>>> could go to a dining > >>>> >> hall > >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to > >>>> meals at the times > >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure > >>>> that anyone can argue that > >>>> >> when > >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular > >>>> schedule, and while this is > >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact > >>>> that we can't even > >>>> >> have > >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we > >>>> may maintain the > >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may > >>>> not affect anyone, but > >>>> >> I > >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I > >>>> would be doing a great > >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this > >>>> center. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an > >>>> authority figure. He was > >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > >>>> approaching the baggage claim > >>>> >> with > >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This > >>>> authority figure approached me > >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my > >>>> waist, hugged me to > >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the > >>>> female passenger who > >>>> >> had > >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under > >>>> control from there, but > >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me > >>>> and said, "How was your trip, > >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad > >>>> you're home!" > >>>> >> > >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the > >>>> beginning, should have > >>>> >> been > >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my > >>>> father, and possibly > >>>> >> even > >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me > >>>> minimally since my arrival at > >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, > >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >>>> >> what > >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable > >>>> regardless of setting. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; > >>>> only you can decide that > >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the > >>>> man who did this to me was > >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been > >>>> reported multiple times > >>>> >> by > >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or > >>>> another, and still holds > >>>> >> > >>>> >> a > >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big > >>>> going on here that I am > >>>> >> unaware > >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but > >>>> regardless of that, I > >>>> >> could > >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If > >>>> it does not, please know > >>>> >> that > >>>> >> I wish you all the best. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin > >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >>>> >> Impossible is not a word > >>>> >> It's just a reason > >>>> >> For someone not to try > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death > >>>> >> When they decide to take that step > >>>> >> Out on the water > >>>> >> It'll be alright > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Life is so much more > >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >>>> >> You will find your way > >>>> >> If you keep believing" > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> -----Original Message----- > >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> On > >>>> >> Behalf > >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>>> list > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >>>> Training Programs > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Ian, > >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used > >>>> to go there on to > >>>> >> stay > >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can > >>>> say is that LWSB has > >>>> >> made > >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would > >>>> think about visiting > >>>> >> there > >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have > >>>> an option to live off > >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a > >>>> sign in and sign out > >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have > >>>> sign in and sign out policy > >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, > >>>> however, this is know > >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which > >>>> everyone blind and > >>>> >> sighted has to do. > >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there > >>>> and frankly since you > >>>> >> have > >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, > >>>> it is a guarantied > >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they > >>>> start at 45,000 or more. > >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said > >>>> above LWSB now known as > >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of > >>>> changes under the new > >>>> >> director > >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. > >>>> As I said earlier, I > >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of > >>>> decision. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Anmol > >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > >>>> make me sad. Perhaps > >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it > >>>> is vague, like a > >>>> >> breeze > >>>> >> among flowers. > >>>> >> Hellen Keller > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >>>> Training Programs > >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" > >>>> > >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >>>> >>> Hi > >>>> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended > >>>> LWSB for one of their > >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in > >>>> general? > >>>> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and > >>>> was reading the manual, > >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured > >>>> environment, even > >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For > >>>> instance, you have to > >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things > >>>> like that. Have any of > >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your > >>>> experiences were. Since > >>>> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like it's > >>>> not as independent of an > >>>> >>> environment. > >>>> >>> Ian > >>>> >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >>>> >>> oo.com > >>>> >>> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >>>> account info for > >>>> > nabs-l: > >>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >>>> account info for > >>>> > nabs-l: > >>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>> info for nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 04:18:16 2012 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:18:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello, The starting wage for one of these IRS positions in some states might be 45 K, but most of the time it's closer to 30k or there abouts of course depending on how much experience one comes in with. They come in as a GS5 and climb the ladder from there. Thanks. On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > I agree. > These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Hi all, >> As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only >> strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going >> to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that >> they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are >> they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I >> don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that >> easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly >> run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer >> networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories >> very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, >> it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a >> good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. >> Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to >> carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the >> unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we >> would get if even several states had a center of this nature. >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Anmol, >>> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance >>> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. >>> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational >>> skills >>> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to >>> be >>> a >>> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. They >>> also >>> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I >>> ran >>> into? >>> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going to >>> WSB >>> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and >>> that >>> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. >>> >>> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, >>> I >>> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee a >>> job >>> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful case >>> closures mean they keep the funding they have. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any >>> organization. >>> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit >>> hall >>> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some >>> on >>> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the >>> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the >>> facts. >>> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is >>> there >>> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into >>> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an >>> employment >>> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a >>> training >>> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an >>> independent >>> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job >>> in >>> providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I >>> personally understand the value of how independent living training is >>> important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do >>> as >>> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to >>> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of >>> independent training for a blind person. >>> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the >>> starting >>> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to >>> decide >>> if >>> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean >>> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >>>> I suspect that certain students or >>>> staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >>>> particular >>>> organizational position. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >>>> wrote: >>>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >>>> chapter of the NFB >>>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >>>> according to you they try so >>>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >>>> allow the NFB meet in >>>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >>>> not meet there? >>>> > >>>> > Anmol >>>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >>>> vague, like a breeze >>>> > among flowers. >>>> > Hellen Keller >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> From: Joshua Lester >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> >> graduating from college. >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >> >>>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> >> would benefit from a complete training >>>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> >> employment-related assistance and >>>> >> > >>>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >>>> you been >>>> >> to an NFB center >>>> >> > yourself? >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Peter Donahue >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> >> list" >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>>> Employment >>>> >> Training Programs >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> >> > She needs job training. >>>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> >> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> >> and >>>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >>>> of the >>>> >> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> to >>>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >>>> existed >>>> >> there for many years. At >>>> >> >> one >>>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >>>> Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> >> Its former blind >>>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >>>> a >>>> >> reputation for condoning >>>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >>>> being >>>> >> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> >> in >>>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >>>> less >>>> >> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >>>> Accreditation" >>>> >> failed to address >>>> >> >> these >>>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >>>> for the >>>> >> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >>>> sheltered >>>> >> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> >> pay >>>> >> >> all employees including the blind >>>> employees the >>>> >> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> >> there >>>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >>>> Enterprises >>>> >> for the Blind and the >>>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >>>> picketed by the >>>> >> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >>>> were >>>> >> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> to >>>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >>>> were on >>>> >> that picket line. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >>>> agencies such >>>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >>>> training >>>> >> center. These centers >>>> >> >> are >>>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >>>> All the >>>> >> best. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >>>> Students mailing >>>> >> list" >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>>> Employment >>>> >> Training Programs >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Amber, >>>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >>>> that I >>>> >> commend your efforts in >>>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >>>> think you did >>>> >> a good job for >>>> >> >> someone >>>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >>>> also >>>> >> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >>>> surprised >>>> >> that >>>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >>>> the >>>> >> clients it does. >>>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >>>> living? or a >>>> >> job program? >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >>>> doesn't >>>> >> bother me. You are in >>>> >> >> a >>>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >>>> society, >>>> >> they need to account >>>> >> >> for >>>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >>>> They need >>>> >> to know where >>>> >> >> everyone >>>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >>>> never found. >>>> >> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >>>> them >>>> >> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >>>> or >>>> >> not. >>>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >>>> fridge >>>> >> would bother me. As a >>>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >>>> fridge in >>>> >> my room. >>>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >>>> drink or >>>> >> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> >> to. >>>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >>>> this was >>>> >> definitely nice. >>>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >>>> I eat >>>> >> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> >> and >>>> >> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >>>> personal >>>> >> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >>>> decent >>>> >> training or whatever you >>>> >> >> need. >>>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >>>> not sure >>>> >> if you are a current >>>> >> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >>>> can as >>>> >> it opens up more doors >>>> >> >> to >>>> >> >> you. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Ashley >>>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >>>> Students mailing >>>> >> list' >>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>>> Employment >>>> >> Training Programs >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Ian, >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >>>> leave on >>>> >> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> >> I >>>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >>>> give >>>> >> only facts and not color >>>> >> >> those >>>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >>>> begin, I >>>> >> will clearly state that >>>> >> >> if >>>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >>>> whether or not >>>> >> one should attend this >>>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >>>> have to >>>> >> say no. But I am not >>>> >> >> you >>>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >>>> have >>>> >> experienced here has >>>> >> >> colored >>>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> The facts: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >>>> had >>>> >> valuables go missing. >>>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >>>> safety >>>> >> codes. (just one >>>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >>>> chicken >>>> >> wings, and though the >>>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >>>> would >>>> >> not mention this, except >>>> >> >> this >>>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >>>> protected >>>> >> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> >> inside >>>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >>>> accidentally >>>> >> splashed. I brought >>>> >> >> this >>>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >>>> mine, but >>>> >> mine is not the only >>>> >> >> one >>>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >>>> by other >>>> >> clients.) >>>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >>>> clients, the >>>> >> building is full of >>>> >> >> bugs. >>>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >>>> spray, but >>>> >> bugs were found even >>>> >> >> in >>>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >>>> (read as, do >>>> >> not leave food in >>>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >>>> still on >>>> >> them etc.) >>>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> >> and >>>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >>>> nothing at >>>> >> all except cafeteria >>>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >>>> physically >>>> >> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> >> very >>>> >> >> well. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >>>> I could >>>> >> talk about, but they >>>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >>>> and >>>> >> really are just normal >>>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >>>> any >>>> >> college dorm, except they >>>> >> >> are >>>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >>>> everything is >>>> >> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> >> So >>>> >> >> while, for example, on most college >>>> campuses, you >>>> >> could go to a dining >>>> >> >> hall >>>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >>>> come to >>>> >> meals at the times >>>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >>>> sure >>>> >> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> >> when >>>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >>>> particular >>>> >> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >>>> the fact >>>> >> that we can't even >>>> >> >> have >>>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >>>> so that we >>>> >> may maintain the >>>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >>>> us. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >>>> and may >>>> >> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> >> I >>>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >>>> not, I >>>> >> would be doing a great >>>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >>>> this >>>> >> center. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >>>> an >>>> >> authority figure. He was >>>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> >> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> >> with >>>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> >> authority figure approached me >>>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >>>> around my >>>> >> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >>>> told the >>>> >> female passenger who >>>> >> >> had >>>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >>>> under >>>> >> control from there, but >>>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >>>> me >>>> >> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >>>> glad >>>> >> you're home!" >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >>>> the >>>> >> beginning, should have >>>> >> >> been >>>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >>>> to be my >>>> >> father, and possibly >>>> >> >> even >>>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >>>> me >>>> >> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >>>> Basically, >>>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> >> what >>>> >> >> one would call professional or even >>>> acceptable >>>> >> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >>>> center; >>>> >> only you can decide that >>>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >>>> that the >>>> >> man who did this to me was >>>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >>>> has been >>>> >> reported multiple times >>>> >> >> by >>>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >>>> way or >>>> >> another, and still holds >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> a >>>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >>>> big >>>> >> going on here that I am >>>> >> >> unaware >>>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >>>> here, but >>>> >> regardless of that, I >>>> >> >> could >>>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >>>> decision. If >>>> >> it does not, please know >>>> >> >> that >>>> >> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> >> Out on the water >>>> >> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> >> You will find your way >>>> >> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> >> On >>>> >> >> Behalf >>>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> >> list >>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>>> Employment >>>> >> Training Programs >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Ian, >>>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >>>> but I used >>>> >> to go there on to >>>> >> >> stay >>>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >>>> thing I can >>>> >> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> >> made >>>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >>>> would >>>> >> think about visiting >>>> >> >> there >>>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >>>> do have >>>> >> an option to live off >>>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >>>> is not a >>>> >> sign in and sign out >>>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >>>> have >>>> >> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> >> during class time to keep count of >>>> attendance, >>>> >> however, this is know >>>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >>>> work which >>>> >> everyone blind and >>>> >> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >>>> programs there >>>> >> and frankly since you >>>> >> >> have >>>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >>>> offices, >>>> >> it is a guarantied >>>> >> >> employment after completing the program >>>> and they >>>> >> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >>>> I said >>>> >> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >>>> of >>>> >> changes under the new >>>> >> >> director >>>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >>>> food is now. >>>> >> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >>>> kind of >>>> >> decision. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Anmol >>>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >>>> they never >>>> >> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >>>> times; but it >>>> >> is vague, like a >>>> >> >> breeze >>>> >> >> among flowers. >>>> >> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>>> Employment >>>> >> Training Programs >>>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >>>> Students" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >> >>> Hi >>>> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have >>>> attended >>>> >> LWSB for one of their >>>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >>>> in >>>> >> general? >>>> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS >>>> programs, and >>>> >> was reading the manual, >>>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >>>> structured >>>> >> environment, even >>>> >> >>> though most of the participants are >>>> adults. For >>>> >> instance, you have to >>>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >>>> and things >>>> >> like that. Have any of >>>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear >>>> what your >>>> >> experiences were. Since >>>> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like >>>> it’s >>>> >> not as independent of an >>>> >> >>> environment. >>>> >> >>> Ian >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>> options or get >>>> >> your account info for >>>> >> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >> >>> oo.com >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or get >>>> >> your account info for >>>> >> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or get >>>> >> your account info for >>>> >> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or get >>>> >> your account info for >>>> >> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or get >>>> >> your account info for >>>> >> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>> get your >>>> >> account info for >>>> >> > nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>> get your >>>> >> account info for >>>> >> > nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account >>>> >> info for nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:19:02 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:19:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> Brandon, I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. If they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they leave the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off elsewhere and get someone else's help. -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hello, This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't found a way to prevent it. When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm holding their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching stairs. I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's on the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive to me as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? Because it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them out, because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely to please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still feel violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, but I really have no idea how to prevent it. If anyone has any idea, please let me know! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > LOL! > > That's a good one! > > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> > >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> Hi Katie, > >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> well. I > >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> telling > >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> far as > >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> already > >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> It's > >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> grow up. > >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> yourself > >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> though > >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> Get > >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> them that > >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> do is > >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> get > >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> where > >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> example, I am > >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> I am > >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> get my > >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> taking > >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> with me. > >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> begin, and > >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> questions > >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> year. > >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> for > >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> vision, then > >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> and > >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> out to > >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> succeed. > >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> college as > >> well. > >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> Center > >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> college > >> and in myself too. > >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> away > >> from my home town and family. > >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> well! > >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> time > >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> Cheers! > >> Liliya > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> this fall. > >> I > >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> couldn't see. > >> In > >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> again. Any > >> advice would be helpful. > >> THANKS > >> > >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:19:54 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:19:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Desiree, if you want to work for Rehab, you could help those blind clients, especially if they get a special education teacher, as opposed to a full blown TVI. The Special Education teacher may not know how to use the assistive technology, so you could teach them. For colleges, on the other hand, you can help the DSO learn how to install the technology. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Well, that's interesting. I think I might look into this Access > Technology Institute, just to see what it offers. Now, don't anybody > take this the wrong way, but how useful is a certification in teaching > assistive technology? Are there many job openings for it? I understand > that most of these instructors work in training centers, whether > they're NFB centers or not, but the state centers, from what I've > heard and to a certain extent experienced personally, are shutting > down left and right, so I would imagine there would be a decline in > the demand for such instructors right there. Of course, the NFB > centers have no intention of closing, so there's always that. I don't > even know if ATI's would be used in schools. I would think you would > have to be a teacher of the visually impaired, which encompasses a lot > more than just the technological aspect of things. So what else is out > there for people who would want to go this route, and ultimately, is > it worth it? > > On 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is >> ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots >> and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various >> areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would >> benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her >> textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the >> field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their >> new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at >> WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers >> over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a >> few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute >> concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on >> the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of >> assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization >> for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI >> certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will >> hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options >> for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a >> while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people >> going into the field with more experience both in the use of the >> technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of >> the technology. >> >> Thanks. >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>> it >>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>> understanding >>> >>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>> marks >>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>> probably >>> >>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >>> its >>> >>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >>> than we really do. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> That's what's going on. >>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>> technology. >>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>> etc. >>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>> the need for such machines? >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>> organizational position. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>> NFB >>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>>> try >>>>> so >>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>> meet >>>>> in >>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>> > >>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>> failed to address >>>>>> >> these >>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>> >> pay >>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>> best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>> a good job for >>>>>> >> someone >>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>> that >>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>> job program? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>> they need to account >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>> to know where >>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>> my room. >>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>> >> to. >>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>> >> need. >>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> you. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list' >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>> >> those >>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>> >> if >>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>> >> you >>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>> >> colored >>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>> >> inside >>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>> clients.) >>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>> building is full of >>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>> >> very >>>>>> >> well. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>> >> So >>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>> >> hall >>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>> >> when >>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>> center. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>> >> with >>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>> >> had >>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>> >> been >>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>> >> even >>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>> >> what >>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>> >> by >>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>> >> could >>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>> >> that >>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>> >> stay >>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>> >> made >>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>> >> director >>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>> decision. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>> general? >>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>> environment, even >>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cordially, >> >> Nimer Jaber >> >> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >> some information about the email you have just read and all >> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >> >> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >> addressed. 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Thank >> you, and have a great day! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:21:57 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:21:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Wow! Where did you get yours? I'm interested in getting one. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > I had one of those say wins and I think it broke or something. I may get > another one someday. > I do think it serves a purpose. If I'm pouring liquids for others, I do not > > want to touch it. > I also think its useful for those who do not have the sensativity in their > fingers to feel the liquid as well. > > All blindness centers will use adaptive tools and techniques to some extent. > > We have to in order to > function. Ideally, a student would be shown ways to do the task with and > without the device, so they can decide for themselves. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't > think we need. > They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without > problems, and I don't have the machine. > I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >> understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >> probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >> its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 04:27:01 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:27:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> So, if you dig the NFB way, why not simply go to an NFB center for training? I mean, why would we want a same philosophy to be everywhere? Don't we claim to embrace diversity? CarAt 09:08 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >I agree. >These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > > Hi all, > > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only > > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going > > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that > > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are > > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I > > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that > > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly > > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer > > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories > > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, > > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a > > good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. > > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to > > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the > > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we > > would get if even several states had a center of this nature. > > > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >> Anmol, > >> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance > >> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. > >> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational > >> skills > >> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to be > >> a > >> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. They > >> also > >> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I > >> ran > >> into? > >> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going to > >> WSB > >> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and > >> that > >> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. > >> > >> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, I > >> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee a > >> job > >> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful case > >> closures mean they keep the funding they have. > >> Ashley > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Anmol Bhatia > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >> > >> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any > >> organization. > >> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit > >> hall > >> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that some > >> on > >> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the > >> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the > >> facts. > >> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is > >> there > >> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into > >> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an > >> employment > >> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a training > >> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an > >> independent > >> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good job > >> in > >> providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. I > >> personally understand the value of how independent living training is > >> important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors do > >> as > >> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money to > >> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value of > >> independent training for a blind person. > >> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the starting > >> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to decide > >> if > >> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, unclean > >> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. > >> Anmol > >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a > >> breeze > >> among flowers. > >> Hellen Keller > >> > >> > >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> > >>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > >>> I suspect that certain students or > >>> staff at WSB are ACB members and > >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a > >>> particular > >>> organizational position. > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > >>> wrote: > >>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock > >>> chapter of the NFB > >>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if > >>> according to you they try so > >>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they > >>> allow the NFB meet in > >>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does > >>> not meet there? > >>> > > >>> > Anmol > >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > >>> make me sad. Perhaps > >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > >>> vague, like a breeze > >>> > among flowers. > >>> > Hellen Keller > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> From: Joshua Lester > >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >>> Training Programs > >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > >>> list" > >>> >> > >>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >>> >> graduating from college. > >>> >> Blessings, Joshua > >>> >> > >>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she > >>> >> would benefit from a complete training > >>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have > >>> >> employment-related assistance and > >>> >> > > >>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have > >>> you been > >>> >> to an NFB center > >>> >> > yourself? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Peter Donahue > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students > >>> mailing > >>> >> list" > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > >>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >>> Employment > >>> >> Training Programs > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. > >>> >> > She needs job training. > >>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > >>> >> > Thanks, Joshua > >>> >> > > >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> >> Good morning everyone, > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > >>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment > >>> of the > >>> >> blind persons it claims > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> to > >>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have > >>> existed > >>> >> there for many years. At > >>> >> >> one > >>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National > >>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically > >>> Handicapped (NAC.) > >>> >> Its former blind > >>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had > >>> a > >>> >> reputation for condoning > >>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons > >>> being > >>> >> abused, mistreated, and > >>> >> >> in > >>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid > >>> less > >>> >> than the Federal minimum > >>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of > >>> Accreditation" > >>> >> failed to address > >>> >> >> these > >>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called > >>> for the > >>> >> agency's grounds to be > >>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the > >>> sheltered > >>> >> workshops they accredited to > >>> >> >> pay > >>> >> >> all employees including the blind > >>> employees the > >>> >> Federal minimum wage. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual > >>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >>> >> >> there > >>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas > >>> Enterprises > >>> >> for the Blind and the > >>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were > >>> picketed by the > >>> >> NFB. While at AEB a > >>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there > >>> were > >>> >> problems and that it needed > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> to > >>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I > >>> were on > >>> >> that picket line. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Judging from what I've read > >>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at > >>> agencies such > >>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB > >>> training > >>> >> center. These centers > >>> >> >> are > >>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. > >>> All the > >>> >> best. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Peter Donahue > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > >>> Students mailing > >>> >> list" > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >>> Employment > >>> >> Training Programs > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Amber, > >>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first > >>> that I > >>> >> commend your efforts in > >>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I > >>> think you did > >>> >> a good job for > >>> >> >> someone > >>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've > >>> also > >>> >> heard bad rumors about it. > >>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real > >>> surprised > >>> >> that > >>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting > >>> the > >>> >> clients it does. > >>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent > >>> living? or a > >>> >> job program? > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out > >>> doesn't > >>> >> bother me. You are in > >>> >> >> a > >>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious > >>> society, > >>> >> they need to account > >>> >> >> for > >>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? > >>> They need > >>> >> to know where > >>> >> >> everyone > >>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are > >>> never found. > >>> >> Youwouldn't want your > >>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and > >>> them > >>> >> saying, oh, we do not know > >>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus > >>> or > >>> >> not. > >>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or > >>> fridge > >>> >> would bother me. As a > >>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own > >>> fridge in > >>> >> my room. > >>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold > >>> drink or > >>> >> cold snack when I wanted > >>> >> >> to. > >>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, > >>> this was > >>> >> definitely nice. > >>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that > >>> I eat > >>> >> late at home; between 7 > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> 8pm. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good > >>> personal > >>> >> decision to leave. So I wish > >>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find > >>> decent > >>> >> training or whatever you > >>> >> >> need. > >>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm > >>> not sure > >>> >> if you are a current > >>> >> >> college student or recent grad. > >>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you > >>> can as > >>> >> it opens up more doors > >>> >> >> to > >>> >> >> you. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Ashley > >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind > >>> Students mailing > >>> >> list' > >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >>> Employment > >>> >> Training Programs > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Ian, > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to > >>> leave on > >>> >> Friday. Here is what > >>> >> >> I > >>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to > >>> give > >>> >> only facts and not color > >>> >> >> those > >>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I > >>> begin, I > >>> >> will clearly state that > >>> >> >> if > >>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to > >>> whether or not > >>> >> one should attend this > >>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would > >>> have to > >>> >> say no. But I am not > >>> >> >> you > >>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I > >>> have > >>> >> experienced here has > >>> >> >> colored > >>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> The facts: > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have > >>> had > >>> >> valuables go missing. > >>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and > >>> safety > >>> >> codes. (just one > >>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had > >>> chicken > >>> >> wings, and though the > >>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I > >>> would > >>> >> not mention this, except > >>> >> >> this > >>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not > >>> protected > >>> >> by any kind of panels) > >>> >> >> inside > >>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be > >>> accidentally > >>> >> splashed. I brought > >>> >> >> this > >>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over > >>> mine, but > >>> >> mine is not the only > >>> >> >> one > >>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed > >>> by other > >>> >> clients.) > >>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many > >>> clients, the > >>> >> building is full of > >>> >> >> bugs. > >>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to > >>> spray, but > >>> >> bugs were found even > >>> >> >> in > >>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. > >>> (read as, do > >>> >> not leave food in > >>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food > >>> still on > >>> >> them etc.) > >>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > >>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or > >>> nothing at > >>> >> all except cafeteria > >>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that > >>> physically > >>> >> exist, but they do not work > >>> >> >> very > >>> >> >> well. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things > >>> I could > >>> >> talk about, but they > >>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference > >>> and > >>> >> really are just normal > >>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on > >>> any > >>> >> college dorm, except they > >>> >> >> are > >>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that > >>> everything is > >>> >> scaled down hugely. > >>> >> >> So > >>> >> >> while, for example, on most college > >>> campuses, you > >>> >> could go to a dining > >>> >> >> hall > >>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not > >>> come to > >>> >> meals at the times > >>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am > >>> sure > >>> >> that anyone can argue that > >>> >> >> when > >>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a > >>> particular > >>> >> schedule, and while this is > >>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with > >>> the fact > >>> >> that we can't even > >>> >> >> have > >>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms > >>> so that we > >>> >> may maintain the > >>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for > >>> us. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing > >>> and may > >>> >> not affect anyone, but > >>> >> >> I > >>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did > >>> not, I > >>> >> would be doing a great > >>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending > >>> this > >>> >> center. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by > >>> an > >>> >> authority figure. He was > >>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > >>> >> approaching the baggage claim > >>> >> >> with > >>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This > >>> >> authority figure approached me > >>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm > >>> around my > >>> >> waist, hugged me to > >>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and > >>> told the > >>> >> female passenger who > >>> >> >> had > >>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it > >>> under > >>> >> control from there, but > >>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at > >>> me > >>> >> and said, "How was your trip, > >>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so > >>> glad > >>> >> you're home!" > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in > >>> the > >>> >> beginning, should have > >>> >> >> been > >>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough > >>> to be my > >>> >> father, and possibly > >>> >> >> even > >>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with > >>> me > >>> >> minimally since my arrival at > >>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. > >>> Basically, > >>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >>> >> >> what > >>> >> >> one would call professional or even > >>> acceptable > >>> >> regardless of setting. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this > >>> center; > >>> >> only you can decide that > >>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is > >>> that the > >>> >> man who did this to me was > >>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, > >>> has been > >>> >> reported multiple times > >>> >> >> by > >>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one > >>> way or > >>> >> another, and still holds > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> a > >>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something > >>> big > >>> >> going on here that I am > >>> >> >> unaware > >>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people > >>> here, but > >>> >> regardless of that, I > >>> >> >> could > >>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your > >>> decision. If > >>> >> it does not, please know > >>> >> >> that > >>> >> >> I wish you all the best. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >>> >> >> Impossible is not a word > >>> >> >> It's just a reason > >>> >> >> For someone not to try > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death > >>> >> >> When they decide to take that step > >>> >> >> Out on the water > >>> >> >> It'll be alright > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Life is so much more > >>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >>> >> >> You will find your way > >>> >> >> If you keep believing" > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> >> On > >>> >> >> Behalf > >>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students > >>> mailing > >>> >> list > >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >>> Employment > >>> >> Training Programs > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Ian, > >>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, > >>> but I used > >>> >> to go there on to > >>> >> >> stay > >>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only > >>> thing I can > >>> >> say is that LWSB has > >>> >> >> made > >>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I > >>> would > >>> >> think about visiting > >>> >> >> there > >>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They > >>> do have > >>> >> an option to live off > >>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there > >>> is not a > >>> >> sign in and sign out > >>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may > >>> have > >>> >> sign in and sign out policy > >>> >> >> during class time to keep count of > >>> attendance, > >>> >> however, this is know > >>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of > >>> work which > >>> >> everyone blind and > >>> >> >> sighted has to do. > >>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best > >>> programs there > >>> >> and frankly since you > >>> >> >> have > >>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS > >>> offices, > >>> >> it is a guarantied > >>> >> >> employment after completing the program > >>> and they > >>> >> start at 45,000 or more. > >>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as > >>> I said > >>> >> above LWSB now known as > >>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot > >>> of > >>> >> changes under the new > >>> >> >> director > >>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the > >>> food is now. > >>> >> As I said earlier, I > >>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any > >>> kind of > >>> >> decision. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Anmol > >>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and > >>> they never > >>> >> make me sad. Perhaps > >>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at > >>> times; but it > >>> >> is vague, like a > >>> >> >> breeze > >>> >> >> among flowers. > >>> >> >> Hellen Keller > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >>> Employment > >>> >> Training Programs > >>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind > >>> Students" > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >>> >> >>> Hi > >>> >> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have > >>> attended > >>> >> LWSB for one of their > >>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB > >>> in > >>> >> general? > >>> >> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS > >>> programs, and > >>> >> was reading the manual, > >>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and > >>> structured > >>> >> environment, even > >>> >> >>> though most of the participants are > >>> adults. For > >>> >> instance, you have to > >>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere > >>> and things > >>> >> like that. Have any of > >>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear > >>> what your > >>> >> experiences were. Since > >>> >> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like > >>> it's > >>> >> not as independent of an > >>> >> >>> environment. > >>> >> >>> Ian > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list > >>> options or get > >>> >> your account info for > >>> >> >>> nabs-l: > >>> >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >>> >> >>> oo.com > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >>> or get > >>> >> your account info for > >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >>> or get > >>> >> your account info for > >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >>> or get > >>> >> your account info for > >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >>> or get > >>> >> your account info for > >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > >>> get your > >>> >> account info for > >>> >> > nabs-l: > >>> >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > >>> get your > >>> >> account info for > >>> >> > nabs-l: > >>> >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>> your account > >>> >> info for nabs-l: > >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >>> account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Jul 18 04:33:25 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:33:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <50063C95.2050300@tysdomain.com> I'm curious what exactly is the nfb philosophy. Usually the people that push it are unable to answer my question, which is sad. There's lots of people that fome at the mouth and claim to embrace it, but I've not gotten an answer yet. On 7/17/2012 10:27 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > So, if you dig the NFB way, why not simply go to an NFB center for > training? I mean, why would we want a same philosophy to be > everywhere? Don't we claim to embrace diversity? > CarAt 09:08 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >> I agree. >> These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only >> > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going >> > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that >> > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are >> > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I >> > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that >> > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly >> > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer >> > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories >> > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, >> > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a >> > good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. >> > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to >> > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the >> > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we >> > would get if even several states had a center of this nature. >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> >> Anmol, >> >> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance >> >> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. >> >> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational >> >> skills >> >> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require >> you to be >> >> a >> >> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. >> They >> >> also >> >> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know >> who I >> >> ran >> >> into? >> >> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, >> going to >> >> WSB >> >> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time >> and >> >> that >> >> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. >> >> >> >> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. >> Also, I >> >> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they >> gaurantee a >> >> job >> >> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more >> successful case >> >> closures mean they keep the funding they have. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> >> >> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any >> >> organization. >> >> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the >> exhabit >> >> hall >> >> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend >> that some >> >> on >> >> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of >> the >> >> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all >> the >> >> facts. >> >> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is >> >> there >> >> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into >> >> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an >> >> employment >> >> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a >> training >> >> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an >> >> independent >> >> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a >> good job >> >> in >> >> providing independent living training, but do not lead to >> employment. I >> >> personally understand the value of how independent living training is >> >> important in being successful in employment and most rehab >> counselors do >> >> as >> >> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer >> money to >> >> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the >> value of >> >> independent training for a blind person. >> >> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the >> starting >> >> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to >> decide >> >> if >> >> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, >> unclean >> >> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> >> breeze >> >> among flowers. >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>> >> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >> >>> I suspect that certain students or >> >>> staff at WSB are ACB members and >> >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >> >>> particular >> >>> organizational position. >> >>> Arielle >> >>> >> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >> >>> chapter of the NFB >> >>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >> >>> according to you they try so >> >>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >> >>> allow the NFB meet in >> >>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >> >>> not meet there? >> >>> > >> >>> > Anmol >> >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> >>> make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >> >>> vague, like a breeze >> >>> > among flowers. >> >>> > Hellen Keller >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> >>> Training Programs >> >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> >>> list" >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> >>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> >>> >> graduating from college. >> >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >> >>> >> would benefit from a complete training >> >>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> >>> >> employment-related assistance and >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >> >>> you been >> >>> >> to an NFB center >> >>> >> > yourself? >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Peter Donahue >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >> >>> mailing >> >>> >> list" >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> >>> >> > She needs job training. >> >>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> >>> >> > Thanks, Joshua >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> >>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >> >>> of the >> >>> >> blind persons it claims >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >> >>> existed >> >>> >> there for many years. At >> >>> >> >> one >> >>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> >>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >> >>> Handicapped (NAC.) >> >>> >> Its former blind >> >>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >> >>> a >> >>> >> reputation for condoning >> >>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >> >>> being >> >>> >> abused, mistreated, and >> >>> >> >> in >> >>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >> >>> less >> >>> >> than the Federal minimum >> >>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >> >>> Accreditation" >> >>> >> failed to address >> >>> >> >> these >> >>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >> >>> for the >> >>> >> agency's grounds to be >> >>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >> >>> sheltered >> >>> >> workshops they accredited to >> >>> >> >> pay >> >>> >> >> all employees including the blind >> >>> employees the >> >>> >> Federal minimum wage. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >> >>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >>> >> >> there >> >>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >> >>> Enterprises >> >>> >> for the Blind and the >> >>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >> >>> picketed by the >> >>> >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >> >>> were >> >>> >> problems and that it needed >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >> >>> were on >> >>> >> that picket line. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Judging from what I've read >> >>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >> >>> agencies such >> >>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >> >>> training >> >>> >> center. These centers >> >>> >> >> are >> >>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >> >>> All the >> >>> >> best. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >> >>> Students mailing >> >>> >> list" >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Amber, >> >>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >> >>> that I >> >>> >> commend your efforts in >> >>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >> >>> think you did >> >>> >> a good job for >> >>> >> >> someone >> >>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >> >>> also >> >>> >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >> >>> surprised >> >>> >> that >> >>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >> >>> the >> >>> >> clients it does. >> >>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >> >>> living? or a >> >>> >> job program? >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >> >>> doesn't >> >>> >> bother me. You are in >> >>> >> >> a >> >>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >> >>> society, >> >>> >> they need to account >> >>> >> >> for >> >>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >> >>> They need >> >>> >> to know where >> >>> >> >> everyone >> >>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >> >>> never found. >> >>> >> Youwouldn't want your >> >>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >> >>> them >> >>> >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >> >>> or >> >>> >> not. >> >>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >> >>> fridge >> >>> >> would bother me. As a >> >>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >> >>> fridge in >> >>> >> my room. >> >>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >> >>> drink or >> >>> >> cold snack when I wanted >> >>> >> >> to. >> >>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >> >>> this was >> >>> >> definitely nice. >> >>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >> >>> I eat >> >>> >> late at home; between 7 >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> 8pm. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >> >>> personal >> >>> >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >> >>> decent >> >>> >> training or whatever you >> >>> >> >> need. >> >>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >> >>> not sure >> >>> >> if you are a current >> >>> >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >> >>> can as >> >>> >> it opens up more doors >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> you. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Ashley >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >> >>> Students mailing >> >>> >> list' >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Ian, >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >> >>> leave on >> >>> >> Friday. Here is what >> >>> >> >> I >> >>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >> >>> give >> >>> >> only facts and not color >> >>> >> >> those >> >>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >> >>> begin, I >> >>> >> will clearly state that >> >>> >> >> if >> >>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >> >>> whether or not >> >>> >> one should attend this >> >>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >> >>> have to >> >>> >> say no. But I am not >> >>> >> >> you >> >>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >> >>> have >> >>> >> experienced here has >> >>> >> >> colored >> >>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> The facts: >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >> >>> had >> >>> >> valuables go missing. >> >>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >> >>> safety >> >>> >> codes. (just one >> >>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >> >>> chicken >> >>> >> wings, and though the >> >>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >> >>> would >> >>> >> not mention this, except >> >>> >> >> this >> >>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >> >>> protected >> >>> >> by any kind of panels) >> >>> >> >> inside >> >>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >> >>> accidentally >> >>> >> splashed. I brought >> >>> >> >> this >> >>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >> >>> mine, but >> >>> >> mine is not the only >> >>> >> >> one >> >>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >> >>> by other >> >>> >> clients.) >> >>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >> >>> clients, the >> >>> >> building is full of >> >>> >> >> bugs. >> >>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >> >>> spray, but >> >>> >> bugs were found even >> >>> >> >> in >> >>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >> >>> (read as, do >> >>> >> not leave food in >> >>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >> >>> still on >> >>> >> them etc.) >> >>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> >>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >> >>> nothing at >> >>> >> all except cafeteria >> >>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >> >>> physically >> >>> >> exist, but they do not work >> >>> >> >> very >> >>> >> >> well. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >> >>> I could >> >>> >> talk about, but they >> >>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >> >>> and >> >>> >> really are just normal >> >>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >> >>> any >> >>> >> college dorm, except they >> >>> >> >> are >> >>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >> >>> everything is >> >>> >> scaled down hugely. >> >>> >> >> So >> >>> >> >> while, for example, on most college >> >>> campuses, you >> >>> >> could go to a dining >> >>> >> >> hall >> >>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >> >>> come to >> >>> >> meals at the times >> >>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >> >>> sure >> >>> >> that anyone can argue that >> >>> >> >> when >> >>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >> >>> particular >> >>> >> schedule, and while this is >> >>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >> >>> the fact >> >>> >> that we can't even >> >>> >> >> have >> >>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >> >>> so that we >> >>> >> may maintain the >> >>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >> >>> us. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >> >>> and may >> >>> >> not affect anyone, but >> >>> >> >> I >> >>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >> >>> not, I >> >>> >> would be doing a great >> >>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >> >>> this >> >>> >> center. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >> >>> an >> >>> >> authority figure. He was >> >>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> >>> >> approaching the baggage claim >> >>> >> >> with >> >>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >> >>> >> authority figure approached me >> >>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >> >>> around my >> >>> >> waist, hugged me to >> >>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >> >>> told the >> >>> >> female passenger who >> >>> >> >> had >> >>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >> >>> under >> >>> >> control from there, but >> >>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >> >>> me >> >>> >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >> >>> glad >> >>> >> you're home!" >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >> >>> the >> >>> >> beginning, should have >> >>> >> >> been >> >>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >> >>> to be my >> >>> >> father, and possibly >> >>> >> >> even >> >>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >> >>> me >> >>> >> minimally since my arrival at >> >>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >> >>> Basically, >> >>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >>> >> >> what >> >>> >> >> one would call professional or even >> >>> acceptable >> >>> >> regardless of setting. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >> >>> center; >> >>> >> only you can decide that >> >>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >> >>> that the >> >>> >> man who did this to me was >> >>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >> >>> has been >> >>> >> reported multiple times >> >>> >> >> by >> >>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >> >>> way or >> >>> >> another, and still holds >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> a >> >>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >> >>> big >> >>> >> going on here that I am >> >>> >> >> unaware >> >>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >> >>> here, but >> >>> >> regardless of that, I >> >>> >> >> could >> >>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >> >>> decision. If >> >>> >> it does not, please know >> >>> >> >> that >> >>> >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >>> >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >>> >> >> It's just a reason >> >>> >> >> For someone not to try >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >>> >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >>> >> >> Out on the water >> >>> >> >> It'll be alright >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Life is so much more >> >>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >>> >> >> You will find your way >> >>> >> >> If you keep believing" >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>> >> On >> >>> >> >> Behalf >> >>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >> >>> mailing >> >>> >> list >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Ian, >> >>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >> >>> but I used >> >>> >> to go there on to >> >>> >> >> stay >> >>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >> >>> thing I can >> >>> >> say is that LWSB has >> >>> >> >> made >> >>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >> >>> would >> >>> >> think about visiting >> >>> >> >> there >> >>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >> >>> do have >> >>> >> an option to live off >> >>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >> >>> is not a >> >>> >> sign in and sign out >> >>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >> >>> have >> >>> >> sign in and sign out policy >> >>> >> >> during class time to keep count of >> >>> attendance, >> >>> >> however, this is know >> >>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >> >>> work which >> >>> >> everyone blind and >> >>> >> >> sighted has to do. >> >>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >> >>> programs there >> >>> >> and frankly since you >> >>> >> >> have >> >>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >> >>> offices, >> >>> >> it is a guarantied >> >>> >> >> employment after completing the program >> >>> and they >> >>> >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >> >>> I said >> >>> >> above LWSB now known as >> >>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >> >>> of >> >>> >> changes under the new >> >>> >> >> director >> >>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >> >>> food is now. >> >>> >> As I said earlier, I >> >>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >> >>> kind of >> >>> >> decision. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Anmol >> >>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >> >>> they never >> >>> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >> >>> times; but it >> >>> >> is vague, like a >> >>> >> >> breeze >> >>> >> >> among flowers. >> >>> >> >> Hellen Keller >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >> >>> Students" >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >>> >> >>> Hi >> >>> >> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have >> >>> attended >> >>> >> LWSB for one of their >> >>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >> >>> in >> >>> >> general? >> >>> >> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS >> >>> programs, and >> >>> >> was reading the manual, >> >>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >> >>> structured >> >>> >> environment, even >> >>> >> >>> though most of the participants are >> >>> adults. For >> >>> >> instance, you have to >> >>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >> >>> and things >> >>> >> like that. Have any of >> >>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear >> >>> what your >> >>> >> experiences were. Since >> >>> >> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like >> >>> it's >> >>> >> not as independent of an >> >>> >> >>> environment. >> >>> >> >>> Ian >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> >>> options or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >>> >> >>> oo.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> >>> or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> >>> or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> >>> or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> 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> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>> info for nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:34:41 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:34:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ATI jobs was LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Disiree, I actually believe the opposite is true. You say state centers are shutting down. Its true due to budget cuts and schools for the blind too are closing their doors. Its about saving money. As to the AT field, its growing. There are many jobs out there. In fact, more than is supply for it. I mean more jobs are still vacant due to lack of people. You can work many places. You can be your own company and contract with agencys, schools, and private individuals to teach them. Other places are various lighthouses, nonprofits serving the blind such as something like Society for the blind in CA which has an opening or two now, and veterans administration facilities. Also, you might be able to create a job at any number of senior facilities due to the rising aging population with visual problems. They will likely use zoomtext or another magnifier, not jaws. but its still teaching AT. I could see that happening, selling your skills to such a facility and they create a job for you. You could work at an assistive living facility, retirement community, or even a senior center in the community; I know in my area they have computer classes for them; surely, some seniors have visual impairments who would benefit from assistive tech instruction. Many do not know it exists! The problem I see is that just about anyone can call themselves a technology instructor. There are no standards for it. I wish there were though. So if you want to get training, you just go to anyone and hope they can teach what they say they can. If anyone has the assistive tech certification, I'd be interested in hearing what you learned and how it worked. Not that I would teach AT as a career, but I've thought about it as a side job. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:11 AM To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Hi, Well, that's interesting. I think I might look into this Access Technology Institute, just to see what it offers. Now, don't anybody take this the wrong way, but how useful is a certification in teaching assistive technology? Are there many job openings for it? I understand that most of these instructors work in training centers, whether they're NFB centers or not, but the state centers, from what I've heard and to a certain extent experienced personally, are shutting down left and right, so I would imagine there would be a decline in the demand for such instructors right there. Of course, the NFB centers have no intention of closing, so there's always that. I don't even know if ATI's would be used in schools. I would think you would have to be a teacher of the visually impaired, which encompasses a lot more than just the technological aspect of things. So what else is out there for people who would want to go this route, and ultimately, is it worth it? On 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > Hello everyone, > > The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is > ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots > and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various > areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would > benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her > textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the > field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their > new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at > WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers > over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a > few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute > concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on > the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of > assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization > for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI > certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will > hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options > for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a > while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people > going into the field with more experience both in the use of the > technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of > the technology. > > Thanks. > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >> understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >> probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >> its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents > by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or > criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding > attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is > up to you. Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:35:32 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:35:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carly, if you had read all of my posts, you'd notice that I'm going to attend the LCB, next June, and stay for 9 months. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > So, if you dig the NFB way, why not simply go to an NFB center for > training? I mean, why would we want a same philosophy to be > everywhere? Don't we claim to embrace diversity? > CarAt 09:08 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >>I agree. >>These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only >> > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going >> > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that >> > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are >> > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I >> > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that >> > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly >> > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer >> > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories >> > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, >> > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a >> > good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. >> > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to >> > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the >> > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we >> > would get if even several states had a center of this nature. >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> >> Anmol, >> >> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance >> >> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. >> >> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational >> >> skills >> >> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to >> >> be >> >> a >> >> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. >> >> They >> >> also >> >> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I >> >> ran >> >> into? >> >> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going >> >> to >> >> WSB >> >> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and >> >> that >> >> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. >> >> >> >> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, >> >> I >> >> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee >> >> a >> >> job >> >> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful >> >> case >> >> closures mean they keep the funding they have. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> >> >> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any >> >> organization. >> >> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit >> >> hall >> >> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that >> >> some >> >> on >> >> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the >> >> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the >> >> facts. >> >> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is >> >> there >> >> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into >> >> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an >> >> employment >> >> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a >> >> training >> >> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an >> >> independent >> >> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good >> >> job >> >> in >> >> providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. >> >> I >> >> personally understand the value of how independent living training is >> >> important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors >> >> do >> >> as >> >> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money >> >> to >> >> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value >> >> of >> >> independent training for a blind person. >> >> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the >> >> starting >> >> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to >> >> decide >> >> if >> >> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, >> >> unclean >> >> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> >> Perhaps >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> >> breeze >> >> among flowers. >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>> >> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >> >>> I suspect that certain students or >> >>> staff at WSB are ACB members and >> >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >> >>> particular >> >>> organizational position. >> >>> Arielle >> >>> >> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >> >>> chapter of the NFB >> >>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >> >>> according to you they try so >> >>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >> >>> allow the NFB meet in >> >>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >> >>> not meet there? >> >>> > >> >>> > Anmol >> >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> >>> make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >> >>> vague, like a breeze >> >>> > among flowers. >> >>> > Hellen Keller >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> >>> Training Programs >> >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> >>> list" >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> >>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> >>> >> graduating from college. >> >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >> >>> >> would benefit from a complete training >> >>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >> >>> >> employment-related assistance and >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >> >>> you been >> >>> >> to an NFB center >> >>> >> > yourself? >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Peter Donahue >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >> >>> mailing >> >>> >> list" >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >> >>> >> > She needs job training. >> >>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >> >>> >> > Thanks, Joshua >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >> >>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >> >>> of the >> >>> >> blind persons it claims >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >> >>> existed >> >>> >> there for many years. At >> >>> >> >> one >> >>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >> >>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >> >>> Handicapped (NAC.) >> >>> >> Its former blind >> >>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >> >>> a >> >>> >> reputation for condoning >> >>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >> >>> being >> >>> >> abused, mistreated, and >> >>> >> >> in >> >>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >> >>> less >> >>> >> than the Federal minimum >> >>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >> >>> Accreditation" >> >>> >> failed to address >> >>> >> >> these >> >>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >> >>> for the >> >>> >> agency's grounds to be >> >>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >> >>> sheltered >> >>> >> workshops they accredited to >> >>> >> >> pay >> >>> >> >> all employees including the blind >> >>> employees the >> >>> >> Federal minimum wage. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >> >>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >>> >> >> there >> >>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >> >>> Enterprises >> >>> >> for the Blind and the >> >>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >> >>> picketed by the >> >>> >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >> >>> were >> >>> >> problems and that it needed >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >> >>> were on >> >>> >> that picket line. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Judging from what I've read >> >>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >> >>> agencies such >> >>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >> >>> training >> >>> >> center. These centers >> >>> >> >> are >> >>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >> >>> All the >> >>> >> best. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >> >>> Students mailing >> >>> >> list" >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Amber, >> >>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >> >>> that I >> >>> >> commend your efforts in >> >>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >> >>> think you did >> >>> >> a good job for >> >>> >> >> someone >> >>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >> >>> also >> >>> >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >> >>> surprised >> >>> >> that >> >>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >> >>> the >> >>> >> clients it does. >> >>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >> >>> living? or a >> >>> >> job program? >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >> >>> doesn't >> >>> >> bother me. You are in >> >>> >> >> a >> >>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >> >>> society, >> >>> >> they need to account >> >>> >> >> for >> >>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >> >>> They need >> >>> >> to know where >> >>> >> >> everyone >> >>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >> >>> never found. >> >>> >> Youwouldn't want your >> >>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >> >>> them >> >>> >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >> >>> or >> >>> >> not. >> >>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >> >>> fridge >> >>> >> would bother me. As a >> >>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >> >>> fridge in >> >>> >> my room. >> >>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >> >>> drink or >> >>> >> cold snack when I wanted >> >>> >> >> to. >> >>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >> >>> this was >> >>> >> definitely nice. >> >>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >> >>> I eat >> >>> >> late at home; between 7 >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> 8pm. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >> >>> personal >> >>> >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >> >>> decent >> >>> >> training or whatever you >> >>> >> >> need. >> >>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >> >>> not sure >> >>> >> if you are a current >> >>> >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >> >>> can as >> >>> >> it opens up more doors >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> you. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Ashley >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >> >>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >> >>> Students mailing >> >>> >> list' >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Ian, >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >> >>> leave on >> >>> >> Friday. Here is what >> >>> >> >> I >> >>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >> >>> give >> >>> >> only facts and not color >> >>> >> >> those >> >>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >> >>> begin, I >> >>> >> will clearly state that >> >>> >> >> if >> >>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >> >>> whether or not >> >>> >> one should attend this >> >>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >> >>> have to >> >>> >> say no. But I am not >> >>> >> >> you >> >>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >> >>> have >> >>> >> experienced here has >> >>> >> >> colored >> >>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> The facts: >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >> >>> had >> >>> >> valuables go missing. >> >>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >> >>> safety >> >>> >> codes. (just one >> >>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >> >>> chicken >> >>> >> wings, and though the >> >>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >> >>> would >> >>> >> not mention this, except >> >>> >> >> this >> >>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >> >>> protected >> >>> >> by any kind of panels) >> >>> >> >> inside >> >>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >> >>> accidentally >> >>> >> splashed. I brought >> >>> >> >> this >> >>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >> >>> mine, but >> >>> >> mine is not the only >> >>> >> >> one >> >>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >> >>> by other >> >>> >> clients.) >> >>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >> >>> clients, the >> >>> >> building is full of >> >>> >> >> bugs. >> >>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >> >>> spray, but >> >>> >> bugs were found even >> >>> >> >> in >> >>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >> >>> (read as, do >> >>> >> not leave food in >> >>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >> >>> still on >> >>> >> them etc.) >> >>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >> >>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >> >>> nothing at >> >>> >> all except cafeteria >> >>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >> >>> physically >> >>> >> exist, but they do not work >> >>> >> >> very >> >>> >> >> well. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >> >>> I could >> >>> >> talk about, but they >> >>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >> >>> and >> >>> >> really are just normal >> >>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >> >>> any >> >>> >> college dorm, except they >> >>> >> >> are >> >>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >> >>> everything is >> >>> >> scaled down hugely. >> >>> >> >> So >> >>> >> >> while, for example, on most college >> >>> campuses, you >> >>> >> could go to a dining >> >>> >> >> hall >> >>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >> >>> come to >> >>> >> meals at the times >> >>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >> >>> sure >> >>> >> that anyone can argue that >> >>> >> >> when >> >>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >> >>> particular >> >>> >> schedule, and while this is >> >>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >> >>> the fact >> >>> >> that we can't even >> >>> >> >> have >> >>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >> >>> so that we >> >>> >> may maintain the >> >>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >> >>> us. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >> >>> and may >> >>> >> not affect anyone, but >> >>> >> >> I >> >>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >> >>> not, I >> >>> >> would be doing a great >> >>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >> >>> this >> >>> >> center. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >> >>> an >> >>> >> authority figure. He was >> >>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >> >>> >> approaching the baggage claim >> >>> >> >> with >> >>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >> >>> >> authority figure approached me >> >>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >> >>> around my >> >>> >> waist, hugged me to >> >>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >> >>> told the >> >>> >> female passenger who >> >>> >> >> had >> >>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >> >>> under >> >>> >> control from there, but >> >>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >> >>> me >> >>> >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >> >>> glad >> >>> >> you're home!" >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >> >>> the >> >>> >> beginning, should have >> >>> >> >> been >> >>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >> >>> to be my >> >>> >> father, and possibly >> >>> >> >> even >> >>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >> >>> me >> >>> >> minimally since my arrival at >> >>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >> >>> Basically, >> >>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >>> >> >> what >> >>> >> >> one would call professional or even >> >>> acceptable >> >>> >> regardless of setting. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >> >>> center; >> >>> >> only you can decide that >> >>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >> >>> that the >> >>> >> man who did this to me was >> >>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >> >>> has been >> >>> >> reported multiple times >> >>> >> >> by >> >>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >> >>> way or >> >>> >> another, and still holds >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> a >> >>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >> >>> big >> >>> >> going on here that I am >> >>> >> >> unaware >> >>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >> >>> here, but >> >>> >> regardless of that, I >> >>> >> >> could >> >>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >> >>> decision. If >> >>> >> it does not, please know >> >>> >> >> that >> >>> >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >> >>> >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >>> >> >> It's just a reason >> >>> >> >> For someone not to try >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >>> >> >> When they decide to take that step >> >>> >> >> Out on the water >> >>> >> >> It'll be alright >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Life is so much more >> >>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >>> >> >> You will find your way >> >>> >> >> If you keep believing" >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>> >> On >> >>> >> >> Behalf >> >>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >> >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >> >>> mailing >> >>> >> list >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Ian, >> >>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >> >>> but I used >> >>> >> to go there on to >> >>> >> >> stay >> >>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >> >>> thing I can >> >>> >> say is that LWSB has >> >>> >> >> made >> >>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >> >>> would >> >>> >> think about visiting >> >>> >> >> there >> >>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >> >>> do have >> >>> >> an option to live off >> >>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >> >>> is not a >> >>> >> sign in and sign out >> >>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >> >>> have >> >>> >> sign in and sign out policy >> >>> >> >> during class time to keep count of >> >>> attendance, >> >>> >> however, this is know >> >>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >> >>> work which >> >>> >> everyone blind and >> >>> >> >> sighted has to do. >> >>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >> >>> programs there >> >>> >> and frankly since you >> >>> >> >> have >> >>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >> >>> offices, >> >>> >> it is a guarantied >> >>> >> >> employment after completing the program >> >>> and they >> >>> >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >> >>> I said >> >>> >> above LWSB now known as >> >>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >> >>> of >> >>> >> changes under the new >> >>> >> >> director >> >>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >> >>> food is now. >> >>> >> As I said earlier, I >> >>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >> >>> kind of >> >>> >> decision. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Anmol >> >>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >> >>> they never >> >>> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >> >>> times; but it >> >>> >> is vague, like a >> >>> >> >> breeze >> >>> >> >> among flowers. >> >>> >> >> Hellen Keller >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> >>> Employment >> >>> >> Training Programs >> >>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >> >>> Students" >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> >>> >> >>> Hi >> >>> >> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have >> >>> attended >> >>> >> LWSB for one of their >> >>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >> >>> in >> >>> >> general? >> >>> >> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS >> >>> programs, and >> >>> >> was reading the manual, >> >>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >> >>> structured >> >>> >> environment, even >> >>> >> >>> though most of the participants are >> >>> adults. For >> >>> >> instance, you have to >> >>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >> >>> and things >> >>> >> like that. Have any of >> >>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear >> >>> what your >> >>> >> experiences were. Since >> >>> >> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like >> >>> it's >> >>> >> not as independent of an >> >>> >> >>> environment. >> >>> >> >>> Ian >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> >>> options or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >>> >> >>> oo.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> >>> or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> >>> or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> >>> or get >> >>> >> your account info for >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> 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unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:39:36 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:39:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <50063C95.2050300@tysdomain.com> References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> <50063C95.2050300@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Go to our Website, and look around, and listen to what Dr Tenbroek's philosophy was, and you'll know our philosophy. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I'm curious what exactly is the nfb philosophy. Usually the people that > push it are unable to answer my question, which is sad. There's lots of > people that fome at the mouth and claim to embrace it, but I've not > gotten an answer yet. > On 7/17/2012 10:27 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> So, if you dig the NFB way, why not simply go to an NFB center for >> training? I mean, why would we want a same philosophy to be >> everywhere? Don't we claim to embrace diversity? >> CarAt 09:08 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >>> I agree. >>> These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> > Hi all, >>> > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only >>> > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going >>> > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that >>> > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are >>> > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I >>> > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that >>> > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly >>> > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer >>> > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories >>> > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, >>> > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a >>> > good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. >>> > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to >>> > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the >>> > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we >>> > would get if even several states had a center of this nature. >>> > >>> > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> >> Anmol, >>> >> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance >>> >> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. >>> >> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational >>> >> skills >>> >> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require >>> you to be >>> >> a >>> >> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. >>> They >>> >> also >>> >> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know >>> who I >>> >> ran >>> >> into? >>> >> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, >>> going to >>> >> WSB >>> >> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time >>> and >>> >> that >>> >> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. >>> >> >>> >> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. >>> Also, I >>> >> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they >>> gaurantee a >>> >> job >>> >> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more >>> successful case >>> >> closures mean they keep the funding they have. >>> >> Ashley >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM >>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >> >>> >> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any >>> >> organization. >>> >> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the >>> exhabit >>> >> hall >>> >> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend >>> that some >>> >> on >>> >> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of >>> the >>> >> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all >>> the >>> >> facts. >>> >> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is >>> >> there >>> >> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into >>> >> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an >>> >> employment >>> >> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a >>> training >>> >> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an >>> >> independent >>> >> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a >>> good job >>> >> in >>> >> providing independent living training, but do not lead to >>> employment. I >>> >> personally understand the value of how independent living training is >>> >> important in being successful in employment and most rehab >>> counselors do >>> >> as >>> >> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer >>> money to >>> >> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the >>> value of >>> >> independent training for a blind person. >>> >> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the >>> starting >>> >> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to >>> decide >>> >> if >>> >> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, >>> unclean >>> >> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. >>> >> Anmol >>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> >> breeze >>> >> among flowers. >>> >> Hellen Keller >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> >>> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >>> >>> I suspect that certain students or >>> >>> staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a >>> >>> particular >>> >>> organizational position. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock >>> >>> chapter of the NFB >>> >>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if >>> >>> according to you they try so >>> >>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they >>> >>> allow the NFB meet in >>> >>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does >>> >>> not meet there? >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Anmol >>> >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> >>> make me sad. Perhaps >>> >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >>> >>> vague, like a breeze >>> >>> > among flowers. >>> >>> > Hellen Keller >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> >> From: Joshua Lester >>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>> >>> Training Programs >>> >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> >>> list" >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>> >>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>> >>> >> graduating from college. >>> >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>> >>> >> would benefit from a complete training >>> >>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>> >>> >> employment-related assistance and >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have >>> >>> you been >>> >>> >> to an NFB center >>> >>> >> > yourself? >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > Peter Donahue >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students >>> >>> mailing >>> >>> >> list" >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> >>> Employment >>> >>> >> Training Programs >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>> >>> >> > She needs job training. >>> >>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>> >>> >> > Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> Good morning everyone, >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>> >>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>> >>> >> >> and >>> >>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment >>> >>> of the >>> >>> >> blind persons it claims >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> to >>> >>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have >>> >>> existed >>> >>> >> there for many years. At >>> >>> >> >> one >>> >>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National >>> >>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>> >>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >>> >>> Handicapped (NAC.) >>> >>> >> Its former blind >>> >>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had >>> >>> a >>> >>> >> reputation for condoning >>> >>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons >>> >>> being >>> >>> >> abused, mistreated, and >>> >>> >> >> in >>> >>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid >>> >>> less >>> >>> >> than the Federal minimum >>> >>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of >>> >>> Accreditation" >>> >>> >> failed to address >>> >>> >> >> these >>> >>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called >>> >>> for the >>> >>> >> agency's grounds to be >>> >>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >>> >>> sheltered >>> >>> >> workshops they accredited to >>> >>> >> >> pay >>> >>> >> >> all employees including the blind >>> >>> employees the >>> >>> >> Federal minimum wage. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>> >>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>> >>> >> >> there >>> >>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas >>> >>> Enterprises >>> >>> >> for the Blind and the >>> >>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were >>> >>> picketed by the >>> >>> >> NFB. While at AEB a >>> >>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there >>> >>> were >>> >>> >> problems and that it needed >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> to >>> >>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I >>> >>> were on >>> >>> >> that picket line. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Judging from what I've read >>> >>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>> >>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at >>> >>> agencies such >>> >>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >>> >>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB >>> >>> training >>> >>> >> center. These centers >>> >>> >> >> are >>> >>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. >>> >>> All the >>> >>> >> best. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> >>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >>> >>> Students mailing >>> >>> >> list" >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> >>> Employment >>> >>> >> Training Programs >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Amber, >>> >>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first >>> >>> that I >>> >>> >> commend your efforts in >>> >>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I >>> >>> think you did >>> >>> >> a good job for >>> >>> >> >> someone >>> >>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've >>> >>> also >>> >>> >> heard bad rumors about it. >>> >>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real >>> >>> surprised >>> >>> >> that >>> >>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting >>> >>> the >>> >>> >> clients it does. >>> >>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent >>> >>> living? or a >>> >>> >> job program? >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out >>> >>> doesn't >>> >>> >> bother me. You are in >>> >>> >> >> a >>> >>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious >>> >>> society, >>> >>> >> they need to account >>> >>> >> >> for >>> >>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? >>> >>> They need >>> >>> >> to know where >>> >>> >> >> everyone >>> >>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are >>> >>> never found. >>> >>> >> Youwouldn't want your >>> >>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and >>> >>> them >>> >>> >> saying, oh, we do not know >>> >>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus >>> >>> or >>> >>> >> not. >>> >>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or >>> >>> fridge >>> >>> >> would bother me. As a >>> >>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own >>> >>> fridge in >>> >>> >> my room. >>> >>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold >>> >>> drink or >>> >>> >> cold snack when I wanted >>> >>> >> >> to. >>> >>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, >>> >>> this was >>> >>> >> definitely nice. >>> >>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that >>> >>> I eat >>> >>> >> late at home; between 7 >>> >>> >> >> and >>> >>> >> >> 8pm. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good >>> >>> personal >>> >>> >> decision to leave. So I wish >>> >>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find >>> >>> decent >>> >>> >> training or whatever you >>> >>> >> >> need. >>> >>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm >>> >>> not sure >>> >>> >> if you are a current >>> >>> >> >> college student or recent grad. >>> >>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you >>> >>> can as >>> >>> >> it opens up more doors >>> >>> >> >> to >>> >>> >> >> you. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Ashley >>> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>> >>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind >>> >>> Students mailing >>> >>> >> list' >>> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> >>> Employment >>> >>> >> Training Programs >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Ian, >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to >>> >>> leave on >>> >>> >> Friday. Here is what >>> >>> >> >> I >>> >>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to >>> >>> give >>> >>> >> only facts and not color >>> >>> >> >> those >>> >>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I >>> >>> begin, I >>> >>> >> will clearly state that >>> >>> >> >> if >>> >>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to >>> >>> whether or not >>> >>> >> one should attend this >>> >>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would >>> >>> have to >>> >>> >> say no. But I am not >>> >>> >> >> you >>> >>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I >>> >>> have >>> >>> >> experienced here has >>> >>> >> >> colored >>> >>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> The facts: >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have >>> >>> had >>> >>> >> valuables go missing. >>> >>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and >>> >>> safety >>> >>> >> codes. (just one >>> >>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had >>> >>> chicken >>> >>> >> wings, and though the >>> >>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I >>> >>> would >>> >>> >> not mention this, except >>> >>> >> >> this >>> >>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>> >>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not >>> >>> protected >>> >>> >> by any kind of panels) >>> >>> >> >> inside >>> >>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be >>> >>> accidentally >>> >>> >> splashed. I brought >>> >>> >> >> this >>> >>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over >>> >>> mine, but >>> >>> >> mine is not the only >>> >>> >> >> one >>> >>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed >>> >>> by other >>> >>> >> clients.) >>> >>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many >>> >>> clients, the >>> >>> >> building is full of >>> >>> >> >> bugs. >>> >>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to >>> >>> spray, but >>> >>> >> bugs were found even >>> >>> >> >> in >>> >>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. >>> >>> (read as, do >>> >>> >> not leave food in >>> >>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food >>> >>> still on >>> >>> >> them etc.) >>> >>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>> >>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >>> >>> >> >> and >>> >>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or >>> >>> nothing at >>> >>> >> all except cafeteria >>> >>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that >>> >>> physically >>> >>> >> exist, but they do not work >>> >>> >> >> very >>> >>> >> >> well. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things >>> >>> I could >>> >>> >> talk about, but they >>> >>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference >>> >>> and >>> >>> >> really are just normal >>> >>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on >>> >>> any >>> >>> >> college dorm, except they >>> >>> >> >> are >>> >>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that >>> >>> everything is >>> >>> >> scaled down hugely. >>> >>> >> >> So >>> >>> >> >> while, for example, on most college >>> >>> campuses, you >>> >>> >> could go to a dining >>> >>> >> >> hall >>> >>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not >>> >>> come to >>> >>> >> meals at the times >>> >>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am >>> >>> sure >>> >>> >> that anyone can argue that >>> >>> >> >> when >>> >>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a >>> >>> particular >>> >>> >> schedule, and while this is >>> >>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with >>> >>> the fact >>> >>> >> that we can't even >>> >>> >> >> have >>> >>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms >>> >>> so that we >>> >>> >> may maintain the >>> >>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for >>> >>> us. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing >>> >>> and may >>> >>> >> not affect anyone, but >>> >>> >> >> I >>> >>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did >>> >>> not, I >>> >>> >> would be doing a great >>> >>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending >>> >>> this >>> >>> >> center. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by >>> >>> an >>> >>> >> authority figure. He was >>> >>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>> >>> >> approaching the baggage claim >>> >>> >> >> with >>> >>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>> >>> >> authority figure approached me >>> >>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm >>> >>> around my >>> >>> >> waist, hugged me to >>> >>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and >>> >>> told the >>> >>> >> female passenger who >>> >>> >> >> had >>> >>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it >>> >>> under >>> >>> >> control from there, but >>> >>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at >>> >>> me >>> >>> >> and said, "How was your trip, >>> >>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so >>> >>> glad >>> >>> >> you're home!" >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in >>> >>> the >>> >>> >> beginning, should have >>> >>> >> >> been >>> >>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough >>> >>> to be my >>> >>> >> father, and possibly >>> >>> >> >> even >>> >>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with >>> >>> me >>> >>> >> minimally since my arrival at >>> >>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >>> >>> Basically, >>> >>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>> >>> >> >> what >>> >>> >> >> one would call professional or even >>> >>> acceptable >>> >>> >> regardless of setting. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this >>> >>> center; >>> >>> >> only you can decide that >>> >>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is >>> >>> that the >>> >>> >> man who did this to me was >>> >>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, >>> >>> has been >>> >>> >> reported multiple times >>> >>> >> >> by >>> >>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one >>> >>> way or >>> >>> >> another, and still holds >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> a >>> >>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something >>> >>> big >>> >>> >> going on here that I am >>> >>> >> >> unaware >>> >>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people >>> >>> here, but >>> >>> >> regardless of that, I >>> >>> >> >> could >>> >>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >>> >>> decision. If >>> >>> >> it does not, please know >>> >>> >> >> that >>> >>> >> >> I wish you all the best. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >>> >>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> >>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> >>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> >>> >> >> Impossible is not a word >>> >>> >> >> It's just a reason >>> >>> >> >> For someone not to try >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >>> >>> >> >> When they decide to take that step >>> >>> >> >> Out on the water >>> >>> >> >> It'll be alright >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Life is so much more >>> >>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> >>> >> >> You will find your way >>> >>> >> >> If you keep believing" >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> >>> >> On >>> >>> >> >> Behalf >>> >>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students >>> >>> mailing >>> >>> >> list >>> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> >>> Employment >>> >>> >> Training Programs >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Ian, >>> >>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, >>> >>> but I used >>> >>> >> to go there on to >>> >>> >> >> stay >>> >>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only >>> >>> thing I can >>> >>> >> say is that LWSB has >>> >>> >> >> made >>> >>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I >>> >>> would >>> >>> >> think about visiting >>> >>> >> >> there >>> >>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They >>> >>> do have >>> >>> >> an option to live off >>> >>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there >>> >>> is not a >>> >>> >> sign in and sign out >>> >>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may >>> >>> have >>> >>> >> sign in and sign out policy >>> >>> >> >> during class time to keep count of >>> >>> attendance, >>> >>> >> however, this is know >>> >>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of >>> >>> work which >>> >>> >> everyone blind and >>> >>> >> >> sighted has to do. >>> >>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best >>> >>> programs there >>> >>> >> and frankly since you >>> >>> >> >> have >>> >>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS >>> >>> offices, >>> >>> >> it is a guarantied >>> >>> >> >> employment after completing the program >>> >>> and they >>> >>> >> start at 45,000 or more. >>> >>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as >>> >>> I said >>> >>> >> above LWSB now known as >>> >>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot >>> >>> of >>> >>> >> changes under the new >>> >>> >> >> director >>> >>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the >>> >>> food is now. >>> >>> >> As I said earlier, I >>> >>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any >>> >>> kind of >>> >>> >> decision. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Anmol >>> >>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and >>> >>> they never >>> >>> >> make me sad. Perhaps >>> >>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at >>> >>> times; but it >>> >>> >> is vague, like a >>> >>> >> >> breeze >>> >>> >> >> among flowers. >>> >>> >> >> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>> >>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >>> >>> Employment >>> >>> >> Training Programs >>> >>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind >>> >>> Students" >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>> >>> >> >>> Hi >>> >>> >> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have >>> >>> attended >>> >>> >> LWSB for one of their >>> >>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB >>> >>> in >>> >>> >> general? >>> >>> >> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS >>> >>> programs, and >>> >>> >> was reading the manual, >>> >>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and >>> >>> structured >>> >>> >> environment, even >>> >>> >> >>> though most of the participants are >>> >>> adults. For >>> >>> >> instance, you have to >>> >>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere >>> >>> and things >>> >>> >> like that. Have any of >>> >>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear >>> >>> what your >>> >>> >> experiences were. Since >>> >>> >> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like >>> >>> it's >>> >>> >> not as independent of an >>> >>> >> >>> environment. >>> >>> >> >>> Ian >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> >>> options or get >>> >>> >> your account info for >>> >>> >> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>> >>> >> >>> oo.com >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> >>> or get >>> >>> >> your account info for >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> >>> or get >>> >>> >> your account info for >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> >>> or get >>> >>> >> your account info for >>> >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>> >>> >> >> 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_______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 04:48:49 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:48:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342570216.38167.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <0B1D03C5C59443A08CA5FD775405D704@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717212502.01c7ed10@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717214817.01dde108@comcast.net> Hi, Josh, Well, thank god, diversity shall be ebraced after all!At 09:35 PM 7/17/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: >Carly, if you had read all of my posts, you'd notice that I'm going to >attend the LCB, next June, and stay for 9 months. >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/17/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > So, if you dig the NFB way, why not simply go to an NFB center for > > training? I mean, why would we want a same philosophy to be > > everywhere? Don't we claim to embrace diversity? > > CarAt 09:08 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: > >>I agree. > >>These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. > >>Blessings, Joshua > >> > >>On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> > Hi all, > >> > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its only > >> > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people are going > >> > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in Arkansas that > >> > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, what are > >> > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 months? I > >> > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases aren't that > >> > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is as badly > >> > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the computer > >> > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing stories > >> > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. As I said, > >> > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that has such a > >> > good track record with placing the blind in profitable employment. > >> > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one place to > >> > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high the > >> > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther along we > >> > would get if even several states had a center of this nature. > >> > > >> > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >> >> Anmol, > >> >> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, the entrance > >> >> requirements were on the website and I hope they still are. > >> >> You have to have good technology skills as well as decent educational > >> >> skills > >> >> to get in. Since you will work for the government, they require you to > >> >> be > >> >> a > >> >> US citizen, able to pass a drug test, and be willing to relocate. > >> >> They > >> >> also > >> >> find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair and know who I > >> >> ran > >> >> into? > >> >> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that agency, going > >> >> to > >> >> WSB > >> >> was a good idea. He said they get students from there all the time and > >> >> that > >> >> the next class containing 30 students was starting soon. > >> >> > >> >> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros and cons. Also, > >> >> I > >> >> can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; they gaurantee > >> >> a > >> >> job > >> >> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because more successful > >> >> case > >> >> closures mean they keep the funding they have. > >> >> Ashley > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Anmol Bhatia > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >> >> > >> >> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong to any > >> >> organization. > >> >> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table at the exhabit > >> >> hall > >> >> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the extend that > >> >> some > >> >> on > >> >> this list might think I am, however, I do not like reading some of the > >> >> comments I read on here from people who do not necessarly know all the > >> >> facts. > >> >> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible because she is > >> >> there > >> >> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would seriously take into > >> >> consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB does have an > >> >> employment > >> >> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send clients to a > >> >> training > >> >> center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather than an > >> >> independent > >> >> living training center like the NFB training centers that do a good > >> >> job > >> >> in > >> >> providing independent living training, but do not lead to employment. > >> >> I > >> >> personally understand the value of how independent living training is > >> >> important in being successful in employment and most rehab counselors > >> >> do > >> >> as > >> >> well, but we have to justify how we are spending the tax payer money > >> >> to > >> >> largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly see the value > >> >> of > >> >> independent training for a blind person. > >> >> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that pays the > >> >> starting > >> >> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So you have to > >> >> decide > >> >> if > >> >> you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: bad food, > >> >> unclean > >> >> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job after that. > >> >> Anmol > >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > >> >> Perhaps > >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a > >> >> breeze > >> >> among flowers. > >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> From: Arielle Silverman > >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >>> > >> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > >> >>> I suspect that certain students or > >> >>> staff at WSB are ACB members and > >> >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a > >> >>> particular > >> >>> organizational position. > >> >>> Arielle > >> >>> > >> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock > >> >>> chapter of the NFB > >> >>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if > >> >>> according to you they try so > >> >>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they > >> >>> allow the NFB meet in > >> >>> > their building and the local chapter of the ACB does > >> >>> not meet there? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Anmol > >> >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > >> >>> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > >> >>> vague, like a breeze > >> >>> > among flowers. > >> >>> > Hellen Keller > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> >> From: Joshua Lester > >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > >> >>> Training Programs > >> >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > >> >>> list" > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >> >>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >> >>> >> graduating from college. > >> >>> >> Blessings, Joshua > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > Let' sleet her decide if she > >> >>> >> would benefit from a complete training > >> >>> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers have > >> >>> >> employment-related assistance and > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > offer training in several specific areas. Have > >> >>> you been > >> >>> >> to an NFB center > >> >>> >> > yourself? > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > Peter Donahue > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> >>> >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students > >> >>> mailing > >> >>> >> list" > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM > >> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >> >>> Employment > >> >>> >> Training Programs > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > She has the skills to take care of herself. > >> >>> >> > She needs job training. > >> >>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? > >> >>> >> > Thanks, Joshua > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> >> Good morning everyone, > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > >> >>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >> >>> >> >> and > >> >>> >> >> checkered history concerning its treatment > >> >>> of the > >> >>> >> blind persons it claims > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> to > >> >>> >> >> serve. The conditions you describe have > >> >>> existed > >> >>> >> there for many years. At > >> >>> >> >> one > >> >>> >> >> time it was accredited by the National > >> >>> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >> >>> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically > >> >>> Handicapped (NAC.) > >> >>> >> Its former blind > >> >>> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had > >> >>> a > >> >>> >> reputation for condoning > >> >>> >> >> practices that often led to blind persons > >> >>> being > >> >>> >> abused, mistreated, and > >> >>> >> >> in > >> >>> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid > >> >>> less > >> >>> >> than the Federal minimum > >> >>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of > >> >>> Accreditation" > >> >>> >> failed to address > >> >>> >> >> these > >> >>> >> >> issues. For example the standards called > >> >>> for the > >> >>> >> agency's grounds to be > >> >>> >> >> pleasant but did not require the > >> >>> sheltered > >> >>> >> workshops they accredited to > >> >>> >> >> pay > >> >>> >> >> all employees including the blind > >> >>> employees the > >> >>> >> Federal minimum wage. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual > >> >>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >> >>> >> >> there > >> >>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas > >> >>> Enterprises > >> >>> >> for the Blind and the > >> >>> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were > >> >>> picketed by the > >> >>> >> NFB. While at AEB a > >> >>> >> >> number of AEB clients told us that there > >> >>> were > >> >>> >> problems and that it needed > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> to > >> >>> >> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I > >> >>> were on > >> >>> >> that picket line. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Judging from what I've read > >> >>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >> >>> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at > >> >>> agencies such > >> >>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >> >>> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB > >> >>> training > >> >>> >> center. These centers > >> >>> >> >> are > >> >>> >> >> a big cut above anything else out there. > >> >>> All the > >> >>> >> best. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Peter Donahue > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >> >>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > >> >>> Students mailing > >> >>> >> list" > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM > >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >> >>> Employment > >> >>> >> Training Programs > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Amber, > >> >>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first > >> >>> that I > >> >>> >> commend your efforts in > >> >>> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I > >> >>> think you did > >> >>> >> a good job for > >> >>> >> >> someone > >> >>> >> >> who did not have a good experience. I've > >> >>> also > >> >>> >> heard bad rumors about it. > >> >>> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real > >> >>> surprised > >> >>> >> that > >> >>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting > >> >>> the > >> >>> >> clients it does. > >> >>> >> >> Which program were you in? Independent > >> >>> living? or a > >> >>> >> job program? > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> About rules, personally signing in and out > >> >>> doesn't > >> >>> >> bother me. You are in > >> >>> >> >> a > >> >>> >> >> training setting and with this litigious > >> >>> society, > >> >>> >> they need to account > >> >>> >> >> for > >> >>> >> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? > >> >>> They need > >> >>> >> to know where > >> >>> >> >> everyone > >> >>> >> >> is. People go missing everyday and are > >> >>> never found. > >> >>> >> Youwouldn't want your > >> >>> >> >> parents or friends or family calling and > >> >>> them > >> >>> >> saying, oh, we do not know > >> >>> >> >> where your son is; he may be on campus > >> >>> or > >> >>> >> not. > >> >>> >> >> The other thing about the no microwave or > >> >>> fridge > >> >>> >> would bother me. As a > >> >>> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own > >> >>> fridge in > >> >>> >> my room. > >> >>> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold > >> >>> drink or > >> >>> >> cold snack when I wanted > >> >>> >> >> to. > >> >>> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, > >> >>> this was > >> >>> >> definitely nice. > >> >>> >> >> That seems early to me given the fact that > >> >>> I eat > >> >>> >> late at home; between 7 > >> >>> >> >> and > >> >>> >> >> 8pm. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good > >> >>> personal > >> >>> >> decision to leave. So I wish > >> >>> >> >> you luck in your next decision to find > >> >>> decent > >> >>> >> training or whatever you > >> >>> >> >> need. > >> >>> >> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm > >> >>> not sure > >> >>> >> if you are a current > >> >>> >> >> college student or recent grad. > >> >>> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you > >> >>> can as > >> >>> >> it opens up more doors > >> >>> >> >> to > >> >>> >> >> you. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Ashley > >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > >> >>> >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind > >> >>> Students mailing > >> >>> >> list' > >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >> >>> Employment > >> >>> >> Training Programs > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Ian, > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to > >> >>> leave on > >> >>> >> Friday. Here is what > >> >>> >> >> I > >> >>> >> >> have experienced. I will do my best to > >> >>> give > >> >>> >> only facts and not color > >> >>> >> >> those > >> >>> >> >> facts with my opinion, though before I > >> >>> begin, I > >> >>> >> will clearly state that > >> >>> >> >> if > >> >>> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as to > >> >>> whether or not > >> >>> >> one should attend this > >> >>> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would > >> >>> have to > >> >>> >> say no. But I am not > >> >>> >> >> you > >> >>> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I > >> >>> have > >> >>> >> experienced here has > >> >>> >> >> colored > >> >>> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> The facts: > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> *Several students (including myself) have > >> >>> had > >> >>> >> valuables go missing. > >> >>> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and > >> >>> safety > >> >>> >> codes. (just one > >> >>> >> >> example-there are many-one evening we had > >> >>> chicken > >> >>> >> wings, and though the > >> >>> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I > >> >>> would > >> >>> >> not mention this, except > >> >>> >> >> this > >> >>> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >> >>> >> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not > >> >>> protected > >> >>> >> by any kind of panels) > >> >>> >> >> inside > >> >>> >> >> the actual stall where water could be > >> >>> accidentally > >> >>> >> splashed. I brought > >> >>> >> >> this > >> >>> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over > >> >>> mine, but > >> >>> >> mine is not the only > >> >>> >> >> one > >> >>> >> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed > >> >>> by other > >> >>> >> clients.) > >> >>> >> >> *Despite several complaints from many > >> >>> clients, the > >> >>> >> building is full of > >> >>> >> >> bugs. > >> >>> >> >> They say that someone comes regularly to > >> >>> spray, but > >> >>> >> bugs were found even > >> >>> >> >> in > >> >>> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. > >> >>> (read as, do > >> >>> >> not leave food in > >> >>> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food > >> >>> still on > >> >>> >> them etc.) > >> >>> >> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or > >> >>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >> >>> >> >> and > >> >>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or > >> >>> nothing at > >> >>> >> all except cafeteria > >> >>> >> >> food. There are microwaves that > >> >>> physically > >> >>> >> exist, but they do not work > >> >>> >> >> very > >> >>> >> >> well. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Now I can say that there are other things > >> >>> I could > >> >>> >> talk about, but they > >> >>> >> >> probably come down to personal preference > >> >>> and > >> >>> >> really are just normal > >> >>> >> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on > >> >>> any > >> >>> >> college dorm, except they > >> >>> >> >> are > >> >>> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact that > >> >>> everything is > >> >>> >> scaled down hugely. > >> >>> >> >> So > >> >>> >> >> while, for example, on most college > >> >>> campuses, you > >> >>> >> could go to a dining > >> >>> >> >> hall > >> >>> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not > >> >>> come to > >> >>> >> meals at the times > >> >>> >> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am > >> >>> sure > >> >>> >> that anyone can argue that > >> >>> >> >> when > >> >>> >> >> in school, you have to work with a > >> >>> particular > >> >>> >> schedule, and while this is > >> >>> >> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with > >> >>> the fact > >> >>> >> that we can't even > >> >>> >> >> have > >> >>> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms > >> >>> so that we > >> >>> >> may maintain the > >> >>> >> >> schedules that are most comfortable for > >> >>> us. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing > >> >>> and may > >> >>> >> not affect anyone, but > >> >>> >> >> I > >> >>> >> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did > >> >>> not, I > >> >>> >> would be doing a great > >> >>> >> >> disservice to anyone considering attending > >> >>> this > >> >>> >> center. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by > >> >>> an > >> >>> >> authority figure. He was > >> >>> >> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was > >> >>> >> approaching the baggage claim > >> >>> >> >> with > >> >>> >> >> a female passenger from my flight. This > >> >>> >> authority figure approached me > >> >>> >> >> without announcing himself, put his arm > >> >>> around my > >> >>> >> waist, hugged me to > >> >>> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and > >> >>> told the > >> >>> >> female passenger who > >> >>> >> >> had > >> >>> >> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it > >> >>> under > >> >>> >> control from there, but > >> >>> >> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at > >> >>> me > >> >>> >> and said, "How was your trip, > >> >>> >> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so > >> >>> glad > >> >>> >> you're home!" > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> This man did not announce himself to me in > >> >>> the > >> >>> >> beginning, should have > >> >>> >> >> been > >> >>> >> >> treating me professionally, is old enough > >> >>> to be my > >> >>> >> father, and possibly > >> >>> >> >> even > >> >>> >> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with > >> >>> me > >> >>> >> minimally since my arrival at > >> >>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. > >> >>> Basically, > >> >>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> >>> >> >> what > >> >>> >> >> one would call professional or even > >> >>> acceptable > >> >>> >> regardless of setting. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this > >> >>> center; > >> >>> >> only you can decide that > >> >>> >> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is > >> >>> that the > >> >>> >> man who did this to me was > >> >>> >> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, > >> >>> has been > >> >>> >> reported multiple times > >> >>> >> >> by > >> >>> >> >> other females that he has violated in one > >> >>> way or > >> >>> >> another, and still holds > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> a > >> >>> >> >> job here. I believe there is something > >> >>> big > >> >>> >> going on here that I am > >> >>> >> >> unaware > >> >>> >> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful people > >> >>> here, but > >> >>> >> regardless of that, I > >> >>> >> >> could > >> >>> >> >> never suggest that someone attend here. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> I hope this helps you make your > >> >>> decision. If > >> >>> >> it does not, please know > >> >>> >> >> that > >> >>> >> >> I wish you all the best. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >> >>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> >>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> >>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard > >> >>> >> >> Impossible is not a word > >> >>> >> >> It's just a reason > >> >>> >> >> For someone not to try > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Everybody's scared to death > >> >>> >> >> When they decide to take that step > >> >>> >> >> Out on the water > >> >>> >> >> It'll be alright > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Life is so much more > >> >>> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >> >>> >> >> You will find your way > >> >>> >> >> If you keep believing" > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> >>> >> On > >> >>> >> >> Behalf > >> >>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> >>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > >> >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students > >> >>> mailing > >> >>> >> list > >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >> >>> Employment > >> >>> >> Training Programs > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Ian, > >> >>> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, > >> >>> but I used > >> >>> >> to go there on to > >> >>> >> >> stay > >> >>> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only > >> >>> thing I can > >> >>> >> say is that LWSB has > >> >>> >> >> made > >> >>> >> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I > >> >>> would > >> >>> >> think about visiting > >> >>> >> >> there > >> >>> >> >> before deciding one way or the other. They > >> >>> do have > >> >>> >> an option to live off > >> >>> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there > >> >>> is not a > >> >>> >> sign in and sign out > >> >>> >> >> policy after class time. Now they may > >> >>> have > >> >>> >> sign in and sign out policy > >> >>> >> >> during class time to keep count of > >> >>> attendance, > >> >>> >> however, this is know > >> >>> >> >> different signing in and signing out of > >> >>> work which > >> >>> >> everyone blind and > >> >>> >> >> sighted has to do. > >> >>> >> >> The IRS program is one of the best > >> >>> programs there > >> >>> >> and frankly since you > >> >>> >> >> have > >> >>> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS > >> >>> offices, > >> >>> >> it is a guarantied > >> >>> >> >> employment after completing the program > >> >>> and they > >> >>> >> start at 45,000 or more. > >> >>> >> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as > >> >>> I said > >> >>> >> above LWSB now known as > >> >>> >> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot > >> >>> of > >> >>> >> changes under the new > >> >>> >> >> director > >> >>> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the > >> >>> food is now. > >> >>> >> As I said earlier, I > >> >>> >> >> would make a visit there before making any > >> >>> kind of > >> >>> >> decision. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Anmol > >> >>> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and > >> >>> they never > >> >>> >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >>> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at > >> >>> times; but it > >> >>> >> is vague, like a > >> >>> >> >> breeze > >> >>> >> >> among flowers. > >> >>> >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >> >>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > >> >>> Employment > >> >>> >> Training Programs > >> >>> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind > >> >>> Students" > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >> >>> >> >>> Hi > >> >>> >> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have > >> >>> attended > >> >>> >> LWSB for one of their > >> >>> >> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB > >> >>> in > >> >>> >> general? > >> >>> >> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS > >> >>> programs, and > >> >>> >> was reading the manual, > >> >>> >> >>> and it seems like a very strict and > >> >>> structured > >> >>> >> environment, even > >> >>> >> >>> though most of the participants are > >> >>> adults. For > >> >>> >> instance, you have to > >> >>> >> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere > >> >>> and things > >> >>> >> like that. Have any of > >> >>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear > >> >>> what your > >> >>> >> experiences were. Since > >> >>> >> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like > >> >>> it's > >> >>> >> not as independent of an > >> >>> >> >>> environment. > >> >>> >> >>> Ian > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list > >> >>> options or get > >> >>> >> your account info for > >> >>> >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> >> >>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >> >>> >> >>> oo.com > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >> >>> or get > >> >>> >> your account info for > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >>> >> >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >> >>> or get > >> >>> >> your account info for > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >>> >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >> >>> or get > >> >>> >> your account info for > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >>> >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > >> >>> or get > >> >>> >> your account info for > >> >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >>> >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > >> >>> get your > >> >>> >> account info for > >> >>> >> > nabs-l: > >> >>> >> > > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > >> >>> get your > >> >>> >> account info for > >> >>> >> > nabs-l: > >> >>> >> > > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> >>> your account > >> >>> >> info for nabs-l: > >> >>> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >> >>> account info for > >> >>> > nabs-l: > >> >>> > > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> >>> info for nabs-l: > >> >>> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 04:51:06 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:51:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel having your stick touched? XD Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store person, someone in the airport or something like that. So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on the bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my eyes, so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. I feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people stand it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're touching my stick, can they please get their hands off... I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Brandon, I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. If they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they leave the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off elsewhere and get someone else's help. -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hello, This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't found a way to prevent it. When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm holding their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching stairs. I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's on the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive to me as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? Because it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them out, because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely to please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still feel violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, but I really have no idea how to prevent it. If anyone has any idea, please let me know! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > LOL! > > That's a good one! > > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> > >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> Hi Katie, > >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> well. I > >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> telling > >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> far as > >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> already > >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> It's > >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> grow up. > >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> yourself > >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> though > >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> Get > >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> them that > >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> do is > >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> get > >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> where > >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> example, I am > >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> I am > >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> get my > >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> taking > >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> with me. > >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> begin, and > >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> questions > >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> year. > >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> for > >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> vision, then > >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> and > >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> out to > >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> succeed. > >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> college as > >> well. > >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> Center > >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> college > >> and in myself too. > >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> away > >> from my home town and family. > >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> well! > >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> time > >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> Cheers! > >> Liliya > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> this fall. > >> I > >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> couldn't see. > >> In > >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> again. Any > >> advice would be helpful. > >> THANKS > >> > >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 04:55:05 2012 From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:55:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <5E99B850FB6B4234966EECFD065682FF@OwnerPC> References: <5E99B850FB6B4234966EECFD065682FF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <033b01cd64a1$80488140$80d983c0$@gmail.com> Hey Katy, Welcome to the list. My name is Hannah and I will also be attending college as a freshman in the fall at UC Davis in California. It sounds like people have said and suggested many things. I plan to join clubs and possibly join some sort of sports team (depending on my class load). I am very nervous but super excited too! Good luck with all of it! All the best, Hannah -----Original Message----- From: Katie Cl Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.c om From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:57:24 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:57:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Joshua, you just said say wins were not necessary; make up your mind. You get them via the catalogs. Check Independent living aids or APH -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:21 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Wow! Where did you get yours? I'm interested in getting one. Thanks, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > I had one of those say wins and I think it broke or something. I may get > another one someday. > I do think it serves a purpose. If I'm pouring liquids for others, I do > not > > want to touch it. > I also think its useful for those who do not have the sensativity in their > fingers to feel the liquid as well. > > All blindness centers will use adaptive tools and techniques to some > extent. > > We have to in order to > function. Ideally, a student would be shown ways to do the task with and > without the device, so they can decide for themselves. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't > think we need. > They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without > problems, and I don't have the machine. > I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >> understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >> probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >> its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 05:05:00 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:05:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I don't have issues with the sensitivity in my fingers, but it would be beneficial for my mom, who has nerve damage due to diabetes. She may lose her sight, in a few years, so I'm wanting one for her. Blesings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > you just said say wins were not necessary; make up your mind. You get them > via the catalogs. Check Independent living aids or APH > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:21 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Wow! > Where did you get yours? > I'm interested in getting one. > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> I had one of those say wins and I think it broke or something. I may get >> another one someday. >> I do think it serves a purpose. If I'm pouring liquids for others, I do >> not >> >> want to touch it. >> I also think its useful for those who do not have the sensativity in >> their >> fingers to feel the liquid as well. >> >> All blindness centers will use adaptive tools and techniques to some >> extent. >> >> We have to in order to >> function. Ideally, a student would be shown ways to do the task with and >> without the device, so they can decide for themselves. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't >> think we need. >> They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without >> problems, and I don't have the machine. >> I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>> it >>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>> understanding >>> >>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>> marks >>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>> probably >>> >>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >>> its >>> >>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >>> than we really do. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> That's what's going on. >>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>> technology. >>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>> etc. >>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>> the need for such machines? >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>> organizational position. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>> NFB >>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>>> try >>>>> so >>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>> meet >>>>> in >>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>> > >>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>> failed to address >>>>>> >> these >>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>> >> pay >>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>> best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>> a good job for >>>>>> >> someone >>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>> that >>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>> job program? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>> they need to account >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>> to know where >>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>> my room. >>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>> >> to. >>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>> >> need. >>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> you. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list' >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>> >> those >>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>> >> if >>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>> >> you >>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>> >> colored >>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>> >> inside >>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>> clients.) >>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>> building is full of >>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>> >> very >>>>>> >> well. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>> >> So >>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>> >> hall >>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>> >> when >>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>> center. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>> >> with >>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>> >> had >>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>> >> been >>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>> >> even >>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>> >> what >>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>> >> by >>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>> >> could >>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>> >> that >>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>> >> stay >>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>> >> made >>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>> >> director >>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>> decision. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>> general? >>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>> environment, even >>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 04:59:09 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:59:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: LOL! It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all there mentally asked this question about my cane. "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel having > > your stick touched? XD > Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store > person, someone in the airport or something like that. > So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on the > bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people > grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! > I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my eyes, > > so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. I > feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people stand > it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're touching my > stick, can they please get their hands off... > I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Brandon, > I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. If > they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they leave > the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off elsewhere > and get someone else's help. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Hello, > This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't found > a way to prevent it. > When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm > holding > their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching stairs. > I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's on > the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive to > me > as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. > Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? > Because > it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them out, > because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely to > please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still feel > violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. > I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, but > I > really have no idea how to prevent it. > If anyone has any idea, please let me know! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Carly Mihalakis > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Evening, Katie, > > Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people > functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not > capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty > counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as > people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is > that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating > the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a > little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people > think of this? > At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>Katie, >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >>Patrick >> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > LOL! >> > That's a good one! >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> > >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >> Hi Katie, >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >> well. I >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >> telling >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >> far as >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >> already >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >> It's >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >> grow up. >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >> yourself >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >> though >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >> Get >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >> them that >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >> do is >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >> get >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >> where >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >> example, I am >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >> I am >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >> get my >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >> taking >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >> with me. >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >> begin, and >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >> questions >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >> year. >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >> for >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >> vision, then >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >> and >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >> out to >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >> succeed. >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >> college as >> >> well. >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >> Center >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >> college >> >> and in myself too. >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >> away >> >> from my home town and family. >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >> well! >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >> time >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >> Cheers! >> >> Liliya >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >> this fall. >> >> I >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >> couldn't see. >> >> In >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >> again. Any >> >> advice would be helpful. >> >> THANKS >> >> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 05:08:13 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:08:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for Tyler Message-ID: Since you're the lone ACB member on this list, please explain to us Federationists why the ACB voted "Do Not Pass," on the Fair Wages resolution. Thanks, Joshua From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 05:15:56 2012 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:15:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Joshua, instead of directing Tyler to this website so that he can learn more, how about just answering the man's questions? I mean, maybe if you answer the question he asks he'll be more likely to think of you as friendly, outgoing, and embodying an awesome philosophy that he too would want to embrace... Just a thought... And Tyler, I'm not going to begin to answer your question because it seems as if each member has a different concept of what NFB philosophy is, and I'm not sure of anyone that would be able to give you a clear-cut response other than maybe the leaders of the organization and seeing as how they change over time, their philosophy might change too. Thanks. On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have issues with the sensitivity in my fingers, but it would > be beneficial for my mom, who has nerve damage due to diabetes. > She may lose her sight, in a few years, so I'm wanting one for her. > Blesings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> you just said say wins were not necessary; make up your mind. You get >> them >> via the catalogs. Check Independent living aids or APH >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:21 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Wow! >> Where did you get yours? >> I'm interested in getting one. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I had one of those say wins and I think it broke or something. I may get >>> another one someday. >>> I do think it serves a purpose. If I'm pouring liquids for others, I do >>> not >>> >>> want to touch it. >>> I also think its useful for those who do not have the sensativity in >>> their >>> fingers to feel the liquid as well. >>> >>> All blindness centers will use adaptive tools and techniques to some >>> extent. >>> >>> We have to in order to >>> function. Ideally, a student would be shown ways to do the task with and >>> without the device, so they can decide for themselves. >>> >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't >>> think we need. >>> They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without >>> problems, and I don't have the machine. >>> I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>>> it >>>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>>> understanding >>>> >>>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>>> marks >>>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>>> probably >>>> >>>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus >>>> not, >>>> its >>>> >>>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive >>>> gadgets >>>> than we really do. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> >>>> That's what's going on. >>>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>>> technology. >>>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>>> etc. >>>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>>> the need for such machines? >>>> Hmmm! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>>> organizational position. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>>> NFB >>>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>>>> try >>>>>> so >>>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>>> meet >>>>>> in >>>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>>> >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>> breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list" >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>>> >> one >>>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>>> failed to address >>>>>>> >> these >>>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>>> >> pay >>>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>>> >> there >>>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>>> >> are >>>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>>> best. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>>> a good job for >>>>>>> >> someone >>>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>>> job program? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>>> >> a >>>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>>> they need to account >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>>> to know where >>>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>>> not. >>>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>>> my room. >>>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>>> >> to. >>>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>>> >> need. >>>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> you. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list' >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>>> >> I >>>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>>> >> those >>>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>>> >> if >>>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>>> >> you >>>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>>> >> colored >>>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>>> >> this >>>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>>> >> inside >>>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>>> >> this >>>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>>> >> one >>>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>>> clients.) >>>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>>> building is full of >>>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>>> >> very >>>>>>> >> well. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>>> >> are >>>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>>> >> So >>>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>>> >> hall >>>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>>> >> when >>>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>>> >> I >>>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>>> center. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>>> >> with >>>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>>> >> had >>>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>>> >> been >>>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>>> >> even >>>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>>> >> what >>>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>>> >> by >>>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> a >>>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>>> >> could >>>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>>> >> that >>>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>>> >> stay >>>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>>> >> made >>>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>>> >> there >>>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>>> >> director >>>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>>> decision. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>>> general? >>>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>>> environment, even >>>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 05:21:08 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:21:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <359ACD0FD5674D56A66B956778AB5B71@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I've already told him what my view of the philosophy was, off list and he wouldn't accept that. He'd be better off listening to Jernigan, Tenbroek, and Maurer. Blessings, Joshua On 7/18/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > Joshua, instead of directing Tyler to this website so that he can > learn more, how about just answering the man's questions? I mean, > maybe if you answer the question he asks he'll be more likely to think > of you as friendly, outgoing, and embodying an awesome philosophy that > he too would want to embrace... Just a thought... And Tyler, I'm not > going to begin to answer your question because it seems as if each > member has a different concept of what NFB philosophy is, and I'm not > sure of anyone that would be able to give you a clear-cut response > other than maybe the leaders of the organization and seeing as how > they change over time, their philosophy might change too. > > Thanks. > > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I don't have issues with the sensitivity in my fingers, but it would >> be beneficial for my mom, who has nerve damage due to diabetes. >> She may lose her sight, in a few years, so I'm wanting one for her. >> Blesings, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> you just said say wins were not necessary; make up your mind. You get >>> them >>> via the catalogs. Check Independent living aids or APH >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:21 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> Wow! >>> Where did you get yours? >>> I'm interested in getting one. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I had one of those say wins and I think it broke or something. I may >>>> get >>>> another one someday. >>>> I do think it serves a purpose. If I'm pouring liquids for others, I do >>>> not >>>> >>>> want to touch it. >>>> I also think its useful for those who do not have the sensativity in >>>> their >>>> fingers to feel the liquid as well. >>>> >>>> All blindness centers will use adaptive tools and techniques to some >>>> extent. >>>> >>>> We have to in order to >>>> function. Ideally, a student would be shown ways to do the task with >>>> and >>>> without the device, so they can decide for themselves. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:50 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> >>>> I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't >>>> think we need. >>>> They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without >>>> problems, and I don't have the machine. >>>> I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Joshua, >>>>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>>>> it >>>>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>>>> understanding >>>>> >>>>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>>>> marks >>>>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>>>> probably >>>>> >>>>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus >>>>> not, >>>>> its >>>>> >>>>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive >>>>> gadgets >>>>> than we really do. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> >>>>> That's what's going on. >>>>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>>>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>>>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>>>> technology. >>>>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>>>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>>>> etc. >>>>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>>>> the need for such machines? >>>>> Hmmm! >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>>>> organizational position. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> try >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>>>> meet >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>> list" >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>>>> >> one >>>>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>>>> failed to address >>>>>>>> >> these >>>>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>>>> >> pay >>>>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>>>> >> there >>>>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>>>> >> are >>>>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>>>> best. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>> list" >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>>>> a good job for >>>>>>>> >> someone >>>>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>>>> job program? >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>>>> >> a >>>>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>>>> they need to account >>>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>>>> to know where >>>>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>>>> my room. >>>>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>>>> >> to. >>>>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>>>> >> need. >>>>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>>> >> you. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>> list' >>>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>>>> >> I >>>>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>>>> >> those >>>>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>>>> >> if >>>>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>>>> >> you >>>>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>>>> >> colored >>>>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>>>> >> this >>>>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>>>> >> inside >>>>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>>>> >> this >>>>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>>>> >> one >>>>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>>>> clients.) >>>>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>>>> building is full of >>>>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>>>> >> very >>>>>>>> >> well. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>>>> >> are >>>>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>>>> >> So >>>>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>>>> >> hall >>>>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>>>> >> when >>>>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>>>> >> I >>>>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>>>> center. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>>>> >> with >>>>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>>>> >> had >>>>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>>>> >> been >>>>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>>>> >> even >>>>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>>>> >> what >>>>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>>>> >> by >>>>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> a >>>>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>>>> >> could >>>>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>>>> >> that >>>>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>>>> >> stay >>>>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>>>> >> made >>>>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>>>> >> there >>>>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>>>> >> director >>>>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>>>> decision. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>>>> general? >>>>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>>>> environment, even >>>>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents > by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or > criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding > attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is > up to you. Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 05:27:19 2012 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:27:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ATI jobs was LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, Here is my take on certifications. They are very useful in getting hired, not in knowing and being able to utilize skills taught to you. A certification can be as meaningless as a printed piece of paper stating that you have a certification in... uh... computer hardware just simply because you can push the power button on a computer and you can plug in a flash drive into the machine. Insane, right? But it's' true. All you have to put down on your resume is that you have a cert and agencies look and see that and go "wow"! Take, for instance, my current place of hire. They looked and saw that I had an Assistive Technology Certification from Worls Services for the Blind as well as a Freedom Scientific JAWS certification and an IC³ certification and they were so amazed they practically offered me a job before I even filled out a job application. Of course IC³ is out of date, the Freedom ScienceFiction one isn't worth a whole lot because it doesn't prepare an individual to teach and the piece of paper that World Services gives out is worth less than the paper it's printed on simply because the instructor didn't know basic commands and no skills on instruction were provided, however I got hired mostly because I went through the BS beurocratic process of obtaining these certifications. The people I work for are amazed when I say this, and they were under the impression that that many certifications meant that I had worked extremely hard and done something amazing. Well, let me tell you that I went through an Assistive Tech course at World Services that should have taken nine months in under four and during that time I also obtained my citizenship and did some other things as well that consumed some of my time. So, in four months I obtained three pieces of paper that, again, mean less and are worth less than the printed page they're on. But as a result, I am hired whereas before because of my lack of a degree and written qualifications I wasn't able to get so much as an interview, let alone a competitive job offer. And you can always make your own work if you are unable to find a specific ATI position. The college degree requirements are almost meaningless when looking for one of these jobs as because there is such a shortage, they'll take almost anyone. The more competitive edge you have, even with a meaningless certification, the better off you are and the easier it is to find meaningful employment. Thanks, and I hope this helps. On 7/18/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Disiree, > > I actually believe the opposite is true. You say state centers are shutting > > down. Its true due to budget cuts and schools for the blind too are closing > > their doors. Its about saving money. As to the AT field, its growing. > There are many jobs out there. In fact, more than is supply for it. > I mean more jobs are still vacant due to lack of people. You can work many > places. You can be your own company and contract with agencys, schools, and > > private individuals to teach them. Other places are various lighthouses, > nonprofits serving the blind such as something like Society for the blind in > > CA which has an opening or two now, and veterans administration facilities. > > Also, you might be able to create a job at any number of senior facilities > due to the rising aging population with visual problems. They will likely > use zoomtext or another magnifier, not jaws. but its still teaching AT. > I could see that happening, selling your skills to such a facility and they > > create a job for you. You could work at an assistive living facility, > retirement community, or even a senior center in the community; I know in my > > area they have computer classes for them; surely, some seniors have visual > impairments who would benefit from assistive tech instruction. Many do not > know it exists! > > The problem I see is that just about anyone can call themselves a > technology instructor. There are no standards for it. > I wish there were though. So if you want to get training, you just go to > anyone and hope they can teach what they say > they can. If anyone has the assistive tech certification, I'd be interested > > in hearing what you learned and how it worked. Not that I would teach AT as > > a career, but I've thought about it as a side job. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:11 AM > To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Hi, > Well, that's interesting. I think I might look into this Access > Technology Institute, just to see what it offers. Now, don't anybody > take this the wrong way, but how useful is a certification in teaching > assistive technology? Are there many job openings for it? I understand > that most of these instructors work in training centers, whether > they're NFB centers or not, but the state centers, from what I've > heard and to a certain extent experienced personally, are shutting > down left and right, so I would imagine there would be a decline in > the demand for such instructors right there. Of course, the NFB > centers have no intention of closing, so there's always that. I don't > even know if ATI's would be used in schools. I would think you would > have to be a teacher of the visually impaired, which encompasses a lot > more than just the technological aspect of things. So what else is out > there for people who would want to go this route, and ultimately, is > it worth it? > > On 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is >> ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots >> and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various >> areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would >> benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her >> textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the >> field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their >> new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at >> WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers >> over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a >> few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute >> concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on >> the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of >> assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization >> for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI >> certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will >> hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options >> for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a >> while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people >> going into the field with more experience both in the use of the >> technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of >> the technology. >> >> Thanks. >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>> it >>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>> understanding >>> >>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>> marks >>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>> probably >>> >>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >>> its >>> >>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >>> than we really do. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> That's what's going on. >>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>> technology. >>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>> etc. >>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>> the need for such machines? >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>> organizational position. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>> NFB >>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>>> try >>>>> so >>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>> meet >>>>> in >>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>> > >>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>> failed to address >>>>>> >> these >>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>> >> pay >>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>> best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>> a good job for >>>>>> >> someone >>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>> that >>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>> job program? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>> they need to account >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>> to know where >>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>> my room. >>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>> >> to. >>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>> >> need. >>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> you. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list' >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>> >> those >>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>> >> if >>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>> >> you >>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>> >> colored >>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>> >> inside >>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>> clients.) >>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>> building is full of >>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>> >> very >>>>>> >> well. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>> >> So >>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>> >> hall >>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>> >> when >>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>> center. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>> >> with >>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>> >> had >>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>> >> been >>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>> >> even >>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>> >> what >>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>> >> by >>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>> >> could >>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>> >> that >>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>> >> stay >>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>> >> made >>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>> >> director >>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>> decision. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>> general? >>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>> environment, even >>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cordially, >> >> Nimer Jaber >> >> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >> some information about the email you have just read and all >> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >> >> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >> up to you. Thanks. >> >> Registered Linux User 529141. >> http://counter.li.org/ >> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >> please click here: >> http://www.vinuxproject.org >> >> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >> and above, please click here: >> http://www.nvda-project.org >> >> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >> >> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >> >> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >> you, and have a great day! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 05:28:19 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:28:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> Hi, Josh, Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >LOL! >It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >there mentally asked this question about my cane. >"What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >Good grief! >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > > Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel having > > > > your stick touched? XD > > Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store > > person, someone in the airport or something like that. > > So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on the > > bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people > > grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! > > I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my eyes, > > > > so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. I > > feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people stand > > it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're touching my > > stick, can they please get their hands off... > > I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ashley Bramlett > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > > > Brandon, > > I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. If > > they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they leave > > the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off elsewhere > > and get someone else's help. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > > > Hello, > > This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't found > > a way to prevent it. > > When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm > > holding > > their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching stairs. > > I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's on > > the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive to > > me > > as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. > > Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? > > Because > > it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them out, > > because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely to > > please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still feel > > violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. > > I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, but > > I > > really have no idea how to prevent it. > > If anyone has any idea, please let me know! > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Carly Mihalakis > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > > Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > > > Evening, Katie, > > > > Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people > > functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not > > capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty > > counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as > > people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is > > that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating > > the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a > > little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people > > think of this? > > At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: > >>Katie, > >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you > >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people > >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for > >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a > >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. > >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, > >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was > >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me > >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great > >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me > >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. > >>Patrick > >> > >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> > LOL! > >> > That's a good one! > >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > >> > Blessings, Joshua > >> > > >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> >> > >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> >> > >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> >> Hi Katie, > >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> >> well. I > >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> >> telling > >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> >> far as > >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> >> already > >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> >> It's > >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> >> grow up. > >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> >> yourself > >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> >> though > >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> >> Get > >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> >> them that > >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> >> do is > >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> >> get > >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> >> where > >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> >> example, I am > >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> >> I am > >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> >> get my > >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> >> taking > >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> >> with me. > >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> >> begin, and > >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> >> questions > >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> >> year. > >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> >> for > >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> >> vision, then > >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> >> and > >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> >> out to > >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> >> succeed. > >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> >> college as > >> >> well. > >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> >> Center > >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> >> college > >> >> and in myself too. > >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> >> away > >> >> from my home town and family. > >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> >> well! > >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> >> time > >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> >> Cheers! > >> >> Liliya > >> >> > >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> >> this fall. > >> >> I > >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> >> couldn't see. > >> >> In > >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> >> again. Any > >> >> advice would be helpful. > >> >> THANKS > >> >> > >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> >> info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> >> mail.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >> for nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> >> r%40gmail.com > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Jul 18 05:38:25 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:38:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for Tyler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50064BD1.6050208@tysdomain.com> Joshua, First, I want to start off by mentioning that I asked a question, and you replied by misspelling the name of your all-star philosopher, then went on with some claim that I'm the only ACB member on list, and I should explain to you "federationists" why something got voted off by the ACB. I really am curious about the philosophy, for a few different reasons. A lot of the people I've asked this question of (including you, and incidentally, I did not get a message off list about your views), just give me some evasive answer and go on to attack another organization. It's reasons like this that I tend to avoid a lot of the NFB, and not only just the NFB. People get stuck to their philosophy and spend half their time bashing other organizations. I honestly have no clue why it got voted out. I like the idea of fair wages personally, but you're going to have to find someone else to ask. As I've stated, I am the ACBS webmaster, but I don't tend to follow everything that happens within the organization. I personally believe that if that is the response to questions like that, I don't want to be a "confederationist." It seems like you'd be better off explaining what you believe, rather than being an elitist ass. Just my two cents, anyway. Good luck in getting your question answered. On 7/17/2012 11:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Since you're the lone ACB member on this list, please explain to us > Federationists why the ACB voted "Do Not Pass," on the Fair Wages > resolution. > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 05:38:42 2012 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:38:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> Tyler, Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of thinking about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated before, do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to embrace this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on blindness is: 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, productive and fulfilling life. 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general public and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness itself. 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one characteristic I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the fact, say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to do so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate in the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view blindness, I think it's worth saying: Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? Absolutely. Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that there are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are not fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, being blind happens to be one of them. I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and discussion. Take care, Sean From cbuckley at pdx.edu Wed Jul 18 05:43:12 2012 From: cbuckley at pdx.edu (Chrys Buckley) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:43:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> References: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow, Sean that was amazing. I've read a lot of descriptions of NFB philosophy but I think that's my favorite. Really well-put and honest and clear. Chrys On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:38 PM, wrote: > Tyler, > > > > Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in > fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about > blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of > thinking > about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB > philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated before, > do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to embrace > this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than > does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it > down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on > blindness is: > > > > 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, > productive and fulfilling life. > > > > 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations > and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general > public > and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind > individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness > itself. > > > > 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one characteristic > I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the fact, > say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. > > > > 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to do > so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate > in > the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By > extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind > individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. > > > > And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view > blindness, I think it's worth saying: > > > > Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to > get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? > Absolutely. > Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my > sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that there > are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for > remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are not > fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to > accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to > work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's > life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine > that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, > being blind happens to be one of them. > > > > I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others > think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and > discussion. > > > > Take care, > > > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cbuckley%40pdx.edu > -- http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Jul 18 05:54:39 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:54:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> References: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50064F9F.90402@tysdomain.com> Sean, Thanks for your reply. Like I said, I've been curious about this for a while, and this is kind of one of the first responses I got that wasn't evasive or just more confusing. I really liked everything you put out, not as the NFB philosophy, but as the way to think about things in general as a blind individual. I honestly think that my biggest problem for staying away from most of the organizations, at least away from getting totally involved, is the fact that I honestly believe there aren't to many people that fully go with something like that, whether it's the NFB's ideals or not. Thanks again, On 7/17/2012 11:38 PM, nabs.president at gmail.com wrote: > Tyler, > > > > Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in > fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about > blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of thinking > about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB > philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated before, > do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to embrace > this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than > does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it > down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on > blindness is: > > > > 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, > productive and fulfilling life. > > > > 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations > and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general public > and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind > individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness itself. > > > > 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one characteristic > I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the fact, > say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. > > > > 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to do > so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate in > the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By > extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind > individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. > > > > And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view > blindness, I think it's worth saying: > > > > Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to > get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? Absolutely. > Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my > sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that there > are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for > remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are not > fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to > accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to > work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's > life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine > that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, > being blind happens to be one of them. > > > > I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others > think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and > discussion. > > > > Take care, > > > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 05:58:11 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:58:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for Tyler In-Reply-To: <50064BD1.6050208@tysdomain.com> References: <50064BD1.6050208@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: I believe Sean answered the question quite well! I was going to say the same thing. I don't have all night to discuss things with anyone. I have things to do. Blessings, Joshua On 7/18/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Joshua, > First, I want to start off by mentioning that I asked a question, and > you replied by misspelling the name of your all-star philosopher, then > went on with some claim that I'm the only ACB member on list, and I > should explain to you "federationists" why something got voted off by > the ACB. I really am curious about the philosophy, for a few different > reasons. A lot of the people I've asked this question of (including you, > and incidentally, I did not get a message off list about your views), > just give me some evasive answer and go on to attack another organization. > > It's reasons like this that I tend to avoid a lot of the NFB, and not > only just the NFB. People get stuck to their philosophy and spend half > their time bashing other organizations. I honestly have no clue why it > got voted out. I like the idea of fair wages personally, but you're > going to have to find someone else to ask. As I've stated, I am the ACBS > webmaster, but I don't tend to follow everything that happens within the > organization. > > I personally believe that if that is the response to questions like > that, I don't want to be a "confederationist." It seems like you'd be > better off explaining what you believe, rather than being an elitist > ass. Just my two cents, anyway. Good luck in getting your question > answered. > On 7/17/2012 11:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Since you're the lone ACB member on this list, please explain to us >> Federationists why the ACB voted "Do Not Pass," on the Fair Wages >> resolution. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 06:00:03 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:00:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> Message-ID: Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. I can't stand those kinds of people! Blessings, Joshua On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Josh, > > Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's > ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM > 7/17/2012, you wrote: >>LOL! >>It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >>Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >>I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >>I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >>there mentally asked this question about my cane. >>"What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >>Good grief! >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> > Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel >> > having >> > >> > your stick touched? XD >> > Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store >> > person, someone in the airport or something like that. >> > So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on >> > the >> > bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people >> > grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >> > I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my >> > eyes, >> > >> > so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. >> > I >> > feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people stand >> > it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're touching >> > my >> > stick, can they please get their hands off... >> > I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Ashley Bramlett >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> > >> > Brandon, >> > I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. >> > If >> > they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they >> > leave >> > the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >> > elsewhere >> > and get someone else's help. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> > >> > Hello, >> > This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't >> > found >> > a way to prevent it. >> > When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm >> > holding >> > their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >> > stairs. >> > I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's >> > on >> > the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive >> > to >> > me >> > as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. >> > Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? >> > Because >> > it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >> > out, >> > because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely >> > to >> > please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >> > feel >> > violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. >> > I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, >> > but >> > I >> > really have no idea how to prevent it. >> > If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Carly Mihalakis >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> > >> > Evening, Katie, >> > >> > Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >> > functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >> > capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >> > counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >> > people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >> > that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >> > the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >> > little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >> > think of this? >> > At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> >>Katie, >> >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >> >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >> >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >> >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >> >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >> >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >> >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >> >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >> >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >> >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >> >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >> >>Patrick >> >> >> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> > LOL! >> >> > That's a good one! >> >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> >> > Blessings, Joshua >> >> > >> >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> >> > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> >> >> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >> >> Hi Katie, >> >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >> >> well. I >> >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >> >> telling >> >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >> >> far as >> >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >> >> already >> >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >> >> It's >> >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >> >> grow up. >> >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >> >> yourself >> >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >> >> though >> >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >> >> Get >> >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >> >> them that >> >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >> >> do is >> >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >> >> get >> >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >> >> where >> >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >> >> example, I am >> >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >> >> I am >> >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >> >> get my >> >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >> >> taking >> >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >> >> with me. >> >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >> >> begin, and >> >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >> >> questions >> >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >> >> year. >> >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >> >> for >> >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >> >> vision, then >> >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >> >> and >> >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >> >> out to >> >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >> >> succeed. >> >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >> >> college as >> >> >> well. >> >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >> >> Center >> >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >> >> college >> >> >> and in myself too. >> >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >> >> away >> >> >> from my home town and family. >> >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >> >> well! >> >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >> >> time >> >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >> >> Cheers! >> >> >> Liliya >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >> >> this fall. >> >> >> I >> >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >> >> couldn't see. >> >> >> In >> >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >> >> again. Any >> >> >> advice would be helpful. >> >> >> THANKS >> >> >> >> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> >> info for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >> >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> >> for >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > nabs-l mailing list >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> > for >> >> > nabs-l: >> >> > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>nabs-l mailing list >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>nabs-l: >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 06:25:00 2012 From: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com (McMahon, Cory J) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:25:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Apprehensive about attending college Message-ID: <6EC5015F509C4157BF27361EBA3B0C1F@anyone> Dear NABS members: In 2011, I had every intention of attending college (I even went so far as to set-up a college visit); however, my attendance to college didn't occur, mainly due to the fact that, when it got closer to the day that I was to go for the college visit which I had set-up, I became frightened, and ended up having to forego everything. With the above information as background, several individuals-including an Adviser to the U.S. Secretary of State (when I was at an event with her in April of this year)-have told me in no uncertain terms that I should attend college; however, the prospect of being extremely overwhelmed at college really scares me, and I'm apprehensive beyond belief. The State Rehab agency in Missouri will pay for my attendance to college if I take a full load of classes and maintain, I believe, a 2.0 GPA (doing these two things is frightening!) Without getting into too much detail on-list, I deal quite a bit with mental health issues, which I fear may compound any difficulties I may have at college and thus prevent me from achieving success. Whenever anyone brings up the idea of attending college, I brush it off, usually-but it was brought up again yesterday, so I thought I'd explore this a bit more and solicit input from people who may be able--through dialogue--to ease my fears. Please feel free to write me at: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com to provide input. Thank-you in advance for any advice, etc. you may have regarding what I've addressed above. Sincerely, Cory McMahon Cory McMahon From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 06:30:26 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:30:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> References: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Sean, As I was reading, I was wondering why the emphasis was entirely on attitudes with no mention of physical/design barriers, and then I get to the last point and realize why. The barriers aren't the problem, it's our failure to simply accept them and move on that's the problem. Sean wrote, > we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair. Or, a third option, we can do something to change what isn't fair, call something an injustice when it's an injustice and do something to eliminate it. We've had similar discussions before, so I don't expect to change your mind, but maybe someone else will be persuaded, and I'm not all that tired anyway.. I will say that I think you do reflect a common attitude that partly constitutes NFB philosophy, and it's probably the one aspect of this philosophy that I think is mistaken. I think I get it — the whole pull yourself up by the bootstraps attitude (very American) — there's value in that, but I think it tends to come from a place of privilege. Going out on a dangerous limb, Sean, guessing white, male, middle class, well educated, heterosexual, no other significant physical or psychological variations. Even if I'm completely wrong on most of this, I can tell you're well educated and intelligent. My point is only that it is easier to say we should just suck it up and move on from such a place of relative privilege. The danger of just sucking it up and moving on is that you might not be as motivated to change things to help out those who aren't able to suck it up and move on. Personally, I'm aiming for a world that's as inclusive and accessible as possible to all blind people, not just the creative, educated ones. So if there's a barrier that I myself can get around, that won't stop me from pointing it out and trying to eliminate it. Simply going around it, however, makes me more likely not to think about it and consequently not to do anything about it. There is value in providing blind people with tools for dealing with injustice and encouraging them to use these tools. We live in an unjust world. What I reject is the false dichotomy of either accepting the injustice or whining about it. We can and should not simply "accept it and move on", but actively work to eliminate injustice where ever we find it. Regards, Marc On 2012-07-17, at 11:38 PM, wrote: > Tyler, > > > > Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in > fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about > blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of thinking > about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB > philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated before, > do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to embrace > this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than > does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it > down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on > blindness is: > > > > 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, > productive and fulfilling life. > > > > 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations > and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general public > and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind > individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness itself. > > > > 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one characteristic > I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the fact, > say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. > > > > 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to do > so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate in > the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By > extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind > individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. > > > > And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view > blindness, I think it's worth saying: > > > > Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to > get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? Absolutely. > Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my > sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that there > are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for > remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are not > fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to > accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to > work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's > life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine > that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, > being blind happens to be one of them. > > > > I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others > think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and > discussion. > > > > Take care, > > > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 07:06:16 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 03:06:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ATI jobs was LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Wow, that gave me something to think about. It brings to mind the fact that having a college degree helps you get hired, regardless of whether the job you're applying for is actually related to your field of study or not. In that sense I can see how it would be helpful to have the certification, even if it's not worth a whole lot. On 7/18/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > Hello, > > Here is my take on certifications. They are very useful in getting > hired, not in knowing and being able to utilize skills taught to you. > A certification can be as meaningless as a printed piece of paper > stating that you have a certification in... uh... computer hardware > just simply because you can push the power button on a computer and > you can plug in a flash drive into the machine. Insane, right? But > it's' true. All you have to put down on your resume is that you have a > cert and agencies look and see that and go "wow"! Take, for instance, > my current place of hire. They looked and saw that I had an Assistive > Technology Certification from Worls Services for the Blind as well as > a Freedom Scientific JAWS certification and an IC³ certification and > they were so amazed they practically offered me a job before I even > filled out a job application. Of course IC³ is out of date, the > Freedom ScienceFiction one isn't worth a whole lot because it doesn't > prepare an individual to teach and the piece of paper that World > Services gives out is worth less than the paper it's printed on simply > because the instructor didn't know basic commands and no skills on > instruction were provided, however I got hired mostly because I went > through the BS beurocratic process of obtaining these certifications. > The people I work for are amazed when I say this, and they were under > the impression that that many certifications meant that I had worked > extremely hard and done something amazing. Well, let me tell you that > I went through an Assistive Tech course at World Services that should > have taken nine months in under four and during that time I also > obtained my citizenship and did some other things as well that > consumed some of my time. So, in four months I obtained three pieces > of paper that, again, mean less and are worth less than the printed > page they're on. But as a result, I am hired whereas before because of > my lack of a degree and written qualifications I wasn't able to get so > much as an interview, let alone a competitive job offer. And you can > always make your own work if you are unable to find a specific ATI > position. The college degree requirements are almost meaningless when > looking for one of these jobs as because there is such a shortage, > they'll take almost anyone. The more competitive edge you have, even > with a meaningless certification, the better off you are and the > easier it is to find meaningful employment. > > Thanks, and I hope this helps. > > On 7/18/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi Disiree, >> >> I actually believe the opposite is true. You say state centers are >> shutting >> >> down. Its true due to budget cuts and schools for the blind too are >> closing >> >> their doors. Its about saving money. As to the AT field, its growing. >> There are many jobs out there. In fact, more than is supply for it. >> I mean more jobs are still vacant due to lack of people. You can work >> many >> places. You can be your own company and contract with agencys, schools, >> and >> >> private individuals to teach them. Other places are various lighthouses, >> nonprofits serving the blind such as something like Society for the blind >> in >> >> CA which has an opening or two now, and veterans administration >> facilities. >> >> Also, you might be able to create a job at any number of senior >> facilities >> due to the rising aging population with visual problems. They will likely >> use zoomtext or another magnifier, not jaws. but its still teaching AT. >> I could see that happening, selling your skills to such a facility and >> they >> >> create a job for you. You could work at an assistive living facility, >> retirement community, or even a senior center in the community; I know in >> my >> >> area they have computer classes for them; surely, some seniors have >> visual >> impairments who would benefit from assistive tech instruction. Many do >> not >> know it exists! >> >> The problem I see is that just about anyone can call themselves a >> technology instructor. There are no standards for it. >> I wish there were though. So if you want to get training, you just go to >> anyone and hope they can teach what they say >> they can. If anyone has the assistive tech certification, I'd be >> interested >> >> in hearing what you learned and how it worked. Not that I would teach AT >> as >> >> a career, but I've thought about it as a side job. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:11 AM >> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> Hi, >> Well, that's interesting. I think I might look into this Access >> Technology Institute, just to see what it offers. Now, don't anybody >> take this the wrong way, but how useful is a certification in teaching >> assistive technology? Are there many job openings for it? I understand >> that most of these instructors work in training centers, whether >> they're NFB centers or not, but the state centers, from what I've >> heard and to a certain extent experienced personally, are shutting >> down left and right, so I would imagine there would be a decline in >> the demand for such instructors right there. Of course, the NFB >> centers have no intention of closing, so there's always that. I don't >> even know if ATI's would be used in schools. I would think you would >> have to be a teacher of the visually impaired, which encompasses a lot >> more than just the technological aspect of things. So what else is out >> there for people who would want to go this route, and ultimately, is >> it worth it? >> >> On 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is >>> ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots >>> and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various >>> areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would >>> benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her >>> textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the >>> field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their >>> new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at >>> WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers >>> over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a >>> few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute >>> concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on >>> the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of >>> assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization >>> for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI >>> certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will >>> hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options >>> for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a >>> while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people >>> going into the field with more experience both in the use of the >>> technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of >>> the technology. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>>> it >>>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>>> understanding >>>> >>>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>>> marks >>>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>>> probably >>>> >>>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus >>>> not, >>>> its >>>> >>>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive >>>> gadgets >>>> than we really do. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> >>>> That's what's going on. >>>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>>> technology. >>>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>>> etc. >>>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>>> the need for such machines? >>>> Hmmm! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>>> organizational position. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>>> NFB >>>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>>>> try >>>>>> so >>>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>>> meet >>>>>> in >>>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>>> >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>> breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list" >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>>> >> one >>>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>>> failed to address >>>>>>> >> these >>>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>>> >> pay >>>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>>> >> there >>>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>>> >> are >>>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>>> best. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>>> a good job for >>>>>>> >> someone >>>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>>> job program? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>>> >> a >>>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>>> they need to account >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>>> to know where >>>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>>> not. >>>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>>> my room. >>>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>>> >> to. >>>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>>> >> need. >>>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> you. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list' >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>>> >> I >>>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>>> >> those >>>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>>> >> if >>>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>>> >> you >>>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>>> >> colored >>>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>>> >> this >>>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>>> >> inside >>>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>>> >> this >>>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>>> >> one >>>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>>> clients.) >>>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>>> building is full of >>>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>>> >> very >>>>>>> >> well. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>>> >> are >>>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>>> >> So >>>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>>> >> hall >>>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>>> >> when >>>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>>> >> I >>>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>>> center. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>>> >> with >>>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>>> >> had >>>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>>> >> been >>>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>>> >> even >>>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>>> >> what >>>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>>> >> by >>>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> a >>>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>>> >> could >>>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>>> >> that >>>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list >>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>>> >> stay >>>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>>> >> made >>>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>>> >> there >>>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>>> >> director >>>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>>> decision. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>>> general? >>>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>>> environment, even >>>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cordially, >>> >>> Nimer Jaber >>> >>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >>> some information about the email you have just read and all >>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >>> >>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >>> up to you. Thanks. >>> >>> Registered Linux User 529141. >>> http://counter.li.org/ >>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >>> please click here: >>> http://www.vinuxproject.org >>> >>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >>> and above, please click here: >>> http://www.nvda-project.org >>> >>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >>> >>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >>> >>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >>> you, and have a great day! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents > by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or > criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding > attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is > up to you. Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 07:10:36 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 03:10:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> Message-ID: A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest story involving my cane that I can think of. So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. > I can't stand those kinds of people! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi, Josh, >> >> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's >> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM >> 7/17/2012, you wrote: >>>LOL! >>>It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >>>Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >>>I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >>>I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >>>there mentally asked this question about my cane. >>>"What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >>>Good grief! >>>Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> > Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel >>> > having >>> > >>> > your stick touched? XD >>> > Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store >>> > person, someone in the airport or something like that. >>> > So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on >>> > the >>> > bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people >>> > grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >>> > I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my >>> > eyes, >>> > >>> > so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. >>> > I >>> > feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people >>> > stand >>> > it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're >>> > touching >>> > my >>> > stick, can they please get their hands off... >>> > I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Brandon Keith Biggs >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Ashley Bramlett >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>> > >>> > Brandon, >>> > I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. >>> > If >>> > they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they >>> > leave >>> > the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >>> > elsewhere >>> > and get someone else's help. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Brandon Keith Biggs >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>> > >>> > Hello, >>> > This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't >>> > found >>> > a way to prevent it. >>> > When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm >>> > holding >>> > their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >>> > stairs. >>> > I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >>> > it's >>> > on >>> > the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive >>> > to >>> > me >>> > as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. >>> > Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? >>> > Because >>> > it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >>> > out, >>> > because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely >>> > to >>> > please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >>> > feel >>> > violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. >>> > I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, >>> > but >>> > I >>> > really have no idea how to prevent it. >>> > If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Brandon Keith Biggs >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Carly Mihalakis >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>> > Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>> > >>> > Evening, Katie, >>> > >>> > Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >>> > functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >>> > capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >>> > counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >>> > people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >>> > that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >>> > the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >>> > little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >>> > think of this? >>> > At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>> >>Katie, >>> >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >>> >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >>> >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >>> >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >>> >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >>> >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >>> >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >>> >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >>> >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >>> >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >>> >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >>> >>Patrick >>> >> >>> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> >> > LOL! >>> >> > That's a good one! >>> >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >>> >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >>> >> > Blessings, Joshua >>> >> > >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >>> >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >>> >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >>> >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >>> >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> >> >> >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>> >> >> >>> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >>> >> >> Hi Katie, >>> >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >>> >> >> well. I >>> >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >>> >> >> telling >>> >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >>> >> >> far as >>> >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >>> >> >> already >>> >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >>> >> >> It's >>> >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >>> >> >> grow up. >>> >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >>> >> >> yourself >>> >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >>> >> >> though >>> >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >>> >> >> Get >>> >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >>> >> >> them that >>> >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >>> >> >> do is >>> >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >>> >> >> get >>> >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >>> >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >>> >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >>> >> >> where >>> >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >>> >> >> example, I am >>> >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >>> >> >> I am >>> >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >>> >> >> get my >>> >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >>> >> >> taking >>> >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >>> >> >> with me. >>> >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >>> >> >> begin, and >>> >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >>> >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >>> >> >> questions >>> >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >>> >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >>> >> >> year. >>> >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >>> >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >>> >> >> for >>> >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >>> >> >> vision, then >>> >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... >>> >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >>> >> >> out to >>> >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >>> >> >> succeed. >>> >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >>> >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >>> >> >> college as >>> >> >> well. >>> >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >>> >> >> Center >>> >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >>> >> >> college >>> >> >> and in myself too. >>> >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >>> >> >> away >>> >> >> from my home town and family. >>> >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >>> >> >> well! >>> >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >>> >> >> time >>> >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >>> >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >>> >> >> Cheers! >>> >> >> Liliya >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >>> >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >>> >> >> this fall. >>> >> >> I >>> >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >>> >> >> couldn't see. >>> >> >> In >>> >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >>> >> >> again. Any >>> >> >> advice would be helpful. >>> >> >> THANKS >>> >> >> >>> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >> >> info for >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >>> >> >> mail.com >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >> >> for nabs-l: >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> >> >> r%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >> >> for >>> >> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >> > for >>> >> > nabs-l: >>> >> > >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>nabs-l mailing list >>> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >>nabs-l: >>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 18 08:31:52 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 03:31:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Guy gets New Job Message-ID: Thomas J. Wlodkowski Joins Comcast Cable as Vice President of Accessibility PHILADELPHIA, PA - July 16, 2012 Comcast Cable, one of the nation's leading providers of entertainment, information and communications products and services, announced today that Thomas J. Wlodkowski has joined the company as Vice President of Accessibility. In this newly created role, Mr. Wlodkowski will develop a strategic plan focused on the usability of Comcast’s products and services by people with disabilities and pursue opportunities to further enrich the customer experience for the disability community. He reports to Charlie Herrin, Senior Vice President, Product Design and Development, Comcast Cable. “Comcast is developing new and innovative communication technologies at a rate that is faster than ever before. It is extremely important that our products and services are easily available and functional for everyone to be able to use these technologies that have become essential for communication, education and entertainment,” said Mr. Herrin. “We are thrilled to have Tom join our team as he brings a wealth of knowledge that will help us to better serve our customers with disabilities through our new and current products.” Mr. Wlodkowski joins Comcast from AOL, Inc. where he led accessibility for the past decade. Among his many accomplishments there, he oversaw the launch of AIM Relay, which allows people who are deaf, hard of hearing or speech disabled to place phone calls to their friends and family through telecommunication relay services. Mr. Wlodkowski holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Boston College. He currently sits on the Board of Trustees for the American Foundation for the Blind and is a member of the Loudoun County Disability Services Board. He previously served on the FCC Consumer Advisory Committee and the Board of Trustees for the National Braille Press. Mr. Wlodkowski will be relocating to the Philadelphia area with his wife and son. About Comcast Cable Comcast Corporation (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) (www.comcast.com) is one of the nation's leading providers of entertainment, information and communications products and services. Comcast is principally involved in the operation of cable systems through Comcast Cable and in the development, production and distribution of entertainment, news, sports and other content for global audiences through NBCUniversal. Comcast Cable is one of the nation's largest video, high-speed Internet and phone providers to residential and business customers. Comcast is the majority owner and manager of NBCUniversal, which owns and operates entertainment and news cable networks, the NBC and Telemundo broadcast networks, local television station groups, television production operations, a major motion picture company and theme parks. ©2012 Comcast | Investor Relations | Press Room | Corporate Blog | Privacy Statement | Visitor Agreement | [] Comcast.com Feedback | Site Map From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 08:33:19 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (Wmodnl) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 04:33:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> Message-ID: Sorry that you had such a bad experience with a worker at the center. Glad that all these emails are saved in domain. you can access it later if needed. Archives are great for this purpose. All I "see" are limitless possibilities. William O'Donnell, Distributor Organo Gold Enterprises, INC www.willsholistics.organogold.com Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2012, at 10:36 PM, "Herrin, Amber R." wrote: > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except this is not an isolated incident.) > *The showers have light bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) > *Despite several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at 45,000 or more. The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 08:57:49 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:57:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <50064F9F.90402@tysdomain.com> References: <043a01cd64a7$98551040$c8ff30c0$@gmail.com> <50064F9F.90402@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <0E862FC9901C48D29F4D48B017B20530@BrandonsLaptop2> I'm not sure if that's what the die-hard NFBers believe, but I know being a part of NABS and being the future of NFB what Shaun said is what I believe. I hardly ever think of my blindness, let alone do I think I'm disabled. It makes me feel funny realizing, oh, uh... Hey I'm disabled... er... I'm a firm believer in education, education, education. I'm a student, so I'm probably a little biased, but I just think we all need to get out into the public eye more and educate people in what we can do. It's my belief that if we do what we love to do with the passion and belief in our selves, it will infuse those around us with the idea that blindness is no different than being short or tall. In my opinion that's why we should stop subminimum wage. Well frankly, I'd like to make a law for sheltered shops to be run by teachers and those who can inspire, because at the moment I've been told that many people in those sheltered shops don't think there is anything more they can do. In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their dreams and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to reach for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope life always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to me is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I need it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Sean, Thanks for your reply. Like I said, I've been curious about this for a while, and this is kind of one of the first responses I got that wasn't evasive or just more confusing. I really liked everything you put out, not as the NFB philosophy, but as the way to think about things in general as a blind individual. I honestly think that my biggest problem for staying away from most of the organizations, at least away from getting totally involved, is the fact that I honestly believe there aren't to many people that fully go with something like that, whether it's the NFB's ideals or not. Thanks again, On 7/17/2012 11:38 PM, nabs.president at gmail.com wrote: > Tyler, > > > Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in > fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about > blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of > thinking > about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB > philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated > before, > do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to > embrace > this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than > does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it > down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on > blindness is: > > > 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, > productive and fulfilling life. > > > 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations > and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general > public > and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind > individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness > itself. > > > 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one > characteristic > I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the > fact, > say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. > > > 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to > do > so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate > in > the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By > extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind > individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. > > > And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view > blindness, I think it's worth saying: > > > Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to > get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? > Absolutely. > Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my > sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that > there > are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for > remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are > not > fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to > accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to > work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's > life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and > wine > that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, > being blind happens to be one of them. > > > I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others > think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and > discussion. > > > Take care, > > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 18 09:46:49 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 04:46:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't open it -- don't ever open something about which you do not know the origin. David Andrews, List Owner At 09:02 AM 7/17/2012, you wrote: >Hi, >What is this exactly? I just want to know what it is before I open it. >Thanks >----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Yasa" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:20 AM >Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > >>Please view the document I uploaded for you. >> >>Click here Just sign >>in with your email to view the document. >> >> >>Thank you. From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 18 10:11:49 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 05:11:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for Tyler In-Reply-To: <50064BD1.6050208@tysdomain.com> References: <50064BD1.6050208@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Tyler: I think Shawn has given you a good pragmatic look at our philosophy. It isn't necessarily easy to boil it down into a couple words, as it relates to how we see ourselves as blind persons, how we interact with society, and how we approach life. Remember that with any organization, we are composed of individuals. Some individuals are more knowledgeable than others, some are more civil, etc. It is easy to take the actions of an individual and generalize them to the whole organization -- but not necessarily accurate to do so. Dave At 12:38 AM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >Joshua, >First, I want to start off by mentioning that I asked a question, >and you replied by misspelling the name of your all-star >philosopher, then went on with some claim that I'm the only ACB >member on list, and I should explain to you "federationists" why >something got voted off by the ACB. I really am curious about the >philosophy, for a few different reasons. A lot of the people I've >asked this question of (including you, and incidentally, I did not >get a message off list about your views), just give me some evasive >answer and go on to attack another organization. > >It's reasons like this that I tend to avoid a lot of the NFB, and >not only just the NFB. People get stuck to their philosophy and >spend half their time bashing other organizations. I honestly have >no clue why it got voted out. I like the idea of fair wages >personally, but you're going to have to find someone else to ask. As >I've stated, I am the ACBS webmaster, but I don't tend to follow >everything that happens within the organization. > >I personally believe that if that is the response to questions like >that, I don't want to be a "confederationist." It seems like you'd >be better off explaining what you believe, rather than being an >elitist ass. Just my two cents, anyway. Good luck in getting your >question answered. >On 7/17/2012 11:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>Since you're the lone ACB member on this list, please explain to us >>Federationists why the ACB voted "Do Not Pass," on the Fair Wages >>resolution. >>Thanks, Joshua From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 18 10:19:45 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 05:19:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Messages Message-ID: Hi List Members: Our lists are here, of course, to use, and you guys are certainly doing that. On Tuesday, the list had nearly 150 messages posted to it in the 24 hour period of that day. Most of the messages were useful and contributed to the conversations in progress -- but not all did. Also, the tone in some of the messages was not as civil as it could have been. Please think before posting. You don't have to feel compelled to respond to each and every message. Over 25 percent of the messages yesterday were from one person. If your message essentially says I agree, or some other limited sentiment, then it probably isn't necessary to post it. I bring this up because if the message volume on a list gets to high, people start leaving and the whole thing is self defeating. You guys generally get along, and certainly help and support each other. That is a great thing and part of why we are here. However, please only post things that contribute to the conversation. Thanks! David Andrews, List Owner p.s. And ... you don't need to post saying you agree with me, good message etc., that is what I am talking about! From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 12:07:24 2012 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:07:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> Message-ID: <90D7EC51-83AF-4D8E-A665-C2B0F063735C@gmail.com> I have been told that my cane looked like a fishing pole before. Now, having held and used a fishing pole before, I cannot imagine why someone might think this. Aleeha On Jul 18, 2012, at 3:10 AM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked > why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest > story involving my cane that I can think of. > So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me > and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? > I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He > said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. > What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. > > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. >> I can't stand those kinds of people! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Hi, Josh, >>> >>> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's >>> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM >>> 7/17/2012, you wrote: >>>> LOL! >>>> It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >>>> Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >>>> I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >>>> I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >>>> there mentally asked this question about my cane. >>>> "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >>>> Good grief! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>>> Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel >>>>> having >>>>> >>>>> your stick touched? XD >>>>> Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store >>>>> person, someone in the airport or something like that. >>>>> So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on >>>>> the >>>>> bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people >>>>> grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >>>>> I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my >>>>> eyes, >>>>> >>>>> so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. >>>>> I >>>>> feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people >>>>> stand >>>>> it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're >>>>> touching >>>>> my >>>>> stick, can they please get their hands off... >>>>> I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>>>> >>>>> Brandon, >>>>> I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. >>>>> If >>>>> they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they >>>>> leave >>>>> the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >>>>> elsewhere >>>>> and get someone else's help. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't >>>>> found >>>>> a way to prevent it. >>>>> When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm >>>>> holding >>>>> their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >>>>> stairs. >>>>> I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >>>>> it's >>>>> on >>>>> the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive >>>>> to >>>>> me >>>>> as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. >>>>> Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? >>>>> Because >>>>> it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >>>>> out, >>>>> because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely >>>>> to >>>>> please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >>>>> feel >>>>> violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. >>>>> I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, >>>>> but >>>>> I >>>>> really have no idea how to prevent it. >>>>> If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>>>> >>>>> Evening, Katie, >>>>> >>>>> Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >>>>> functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >>>>> capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >>>>> counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >>>>> people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >>>>> that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >>>>> the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >>>>> little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >>>>> think of this? >>>>> At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>>>>> Katie, >>>>>> Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >>>>>> that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >>>>>> that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >>>>>> themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >>>>>> person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >>>>>> When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >>>>>> take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >>>>>> walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >>>>>> how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >>>>>> conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >>>>>> an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >>>>>> Patrick >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> LOL! >>>>>>> That's a good one! >>>>>>> I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >>>>>>> blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>>>>>> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >>>>>>>> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >>>>>>>> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >>>>>>>> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >>>>>>>> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Liliya Asadullina >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And I agree about adding in humour. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Katie, >>>>>>>> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >>>>>>>> well. I >>>>>>>> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >>>>>>>> telling >>>>>>>> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >>>>>>>> far as >>>>>>>> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >>>>>>>> grow up. >>>>>>>> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >>>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>>> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >>>>>>>> Get >>>>>>>> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >>>>>>>> them that >>>>>>>> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >>>>>>>> do is >>>>>>>> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >>>>>>>> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >>>>>>>> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >>>>>>>> example, I am >>>>>>>> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >>>>>>>> get my >>>>>>>> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >>>>>>>> taking >>>>>>>> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >>>>>>>> with me. >>>>>>>> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >>>>>>>> begin, and >>>>>>>> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >>>>>>>> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >>>>>>>> questions >>>>>>>> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >>>>>>>> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >>>>>>>> year. >>>>>>>> Be confident in you! You've got this! >>>>>>>> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >>>>>>>> vision, then >>>>>>>> they aren't worth being friends with... >>>>>>>> People come to college from all different areas around the world >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >>>>>>>> out to >>>>>>>> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >>>>>>>> succeed. >>>>>>>> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >>>>>>>> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >>>>>>>> college as >>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >>>>>>>> Center >>>>>>>> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >>>>>>>> college >>>>>>>> and in myself too. >>>>>>>> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >>>>>>>> away >>>>>>>> from my home town and family. >>>>>>>> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >>>>>>>> well! >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >>>>>>>> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>> Liliya >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >>>>>>>> this fall. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >>>>>>>> couldn't see. >>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >>>>>>>> again. Any >>>>>>>> advice would be helpful. >>>>>>>> THANKS >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 12:16:08 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 05:16:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120718051257.01e6b110@comcast.net> Good morning, Desiree, Instead of resenting such bumbling notions, why not take pride in havind dispelled such a whacky, belief of there being magnents in our sticks that aid in identifying the curb? How productive is getting resentful toward someone who planely must not know bettter until you ever so gently, educated him?At 12:10 AM 7/18/2012, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked >why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest >story involving my cane that I can think of. >So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me >and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? >I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He >said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. >What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. > >On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. > > I can't stand those kinds of people! > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> Hi, Josh, > >> > >> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's > >> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM > >> 7/17/2012, you wrote: > >>>LOL! > >>>It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. > >>>Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! > >>>I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. > >>>I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all > >>>there mentally asked this question about my cane. > >>>"What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" > >>>Good grief! > >>>Blessings, Joshua > >>> > >>>On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >>> > Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel > >>> > having > >>> > > >>> > your stick touched? XD > >>> > Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store > >>> > person, someone in the airport or something like that. > >>> > So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on > >>> > the > >>> > bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people > >>> > grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! > >>> > I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my > >>> > eyes, > >>> > > >>> > so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. > >>> > I > >>> > feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people > >>> > stand > >>> > it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're > >>> > touching > >>> > my > >>> > stick, can they please get their hands off... > >>> > I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. > >>> > Thanks, > >>> > > >>> > Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: Ashley Bramlett > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM > >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>> > > >>> > Brandon, > >>> > I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. > >>> > If > >>> > they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they > >>> > leave > >>> > the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off > >>> > elsewhere > >>> > and get someone else's help. > >>> > > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM > >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>> > > >>> > Hello, > >>> > This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't > >>> > found > >>> > a way to prevent it. > >>> > When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm > >>> > holding > >>> > their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching > >>> > stairs. > >>> > I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and > >>> > it's > >>> > on > >>> > the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive > >>> > to > >>> > me > >>> > as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. > >>> > Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? > >>> > Because > >>> > it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them > >>> > out, > >>> > because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely > >>> > to > >>> > please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still > >>> > feel > >>> > violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. > >>> > I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, > >>> > but > >>> > I > >>> > really have no idea how to prevent it. > >>> > If anyone has any idea, please let me know! > >>> > Thanks, > >>> > > >>> > Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: Carly Mihalakis > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM > >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > >>> > Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>> > > >>> > Evening, Katie, > >>> > > >>> > Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people > >>> > functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not > >>> > capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty > >>> > counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as > >>> > people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is > >>> > that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating > >>> > the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a > >>> > little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people > >>> > think of this? > >>> > At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: > >>> >>Katie, > >>> >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you > >>> >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people > >>> >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for > >>> >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a > >>> >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. > >>> >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, > >>> >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was > >>> >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me > >>> >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great > >>> >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me > >>> >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. > >>> >>Patrick > >>> >> > >>> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>> >> > LOL! > >>> >> > That's a good one! > >>> >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > >>> >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > >>> >> > Blessings, Joshua > >>> >> > > >>> >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>> >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >>> >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >>> >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >>> >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >>> >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina >>> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >>> >> >> Hi Katie, > >>> >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >>> >> >> well. I > >>> >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >>> >> >> telling > >>> >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >>> >> >> far as > >>> >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >>> >> >> already > >>> >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >>> >> >> It's > >>> >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >>> >> >> grow up. > >>> >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >>> >> >> yourself > >>> >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >>> >> >> though > >>> >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >>> >> >> Get > >>> >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >>> >> >> them that > >>> >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >>> >> >> do is > >>> >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >>> >> >> get > >>> >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >>> >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >>> >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >>> >> >> where > >>> >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >>> >> >> example, I am > >>> >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >>> >> >> I am > >>> >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >>> >> >> get my > >>> >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >>> >> >> taking > >>> >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >>> >> >> with me. > >>> >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >>> >> >> begin, and > >>> >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >>> >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >>> >> >> questions > >>> >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >>> >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >>> >> >> year. > >>> >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >>> >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >>> >> >> for > >>> >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >>> >> >> vision, then > >>> >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >>> >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >>> >> >> out to > >>> >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >>> >> >> succeed. > >>> >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >>> >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >>> >> >> college as > >>> >> >> well. > >>> >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >>> >> >> Center > >>> >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >>> >> >> college > >>> >> >> and in myself too. > >>> >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >>> >> >> away > >>> >> >> from my home town and family. > >>> >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >>> >> >> well! > >>> >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >>> >> >> time > >>> >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >>> >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >>> >> >> Cheers! > >>> >> >> Liliya > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >>> >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >>> >> >> this fall. > >>> >> >> I > >>> >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >>> >> >> couldn't see. > >>> >> >> In > >>> >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >>> >> >> again. Any > >>> >> >> advice would be helpful. > >>> >> >> THANKS > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> >> >> info for > >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >>> >> >> mail.com > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> >> >> for nabs-l: > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>> >> >> r%40gmail.com > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> >> >> for > >>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> >> > for > >>> >> > nabs-l: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >>_______________________________________________ > >>> >>nabs-l mailing list > >>> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> >>nabs-l: > >>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%4 > 0comcast.net > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> > nabs-l: > >>> > > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 12:26:35 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 05:26:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <90D7EC51-83AF-4D8E-A665-C2B0F063735C@gmail.com> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> <90D7EC51-83AF-4D8E-A665-C2B0F063735C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120718052212.01dd7108@comcast.net> Good morning, Aleeha, Are there educating opportunities underlying somewhere, to grow resentful over people's misidentification of your cane? We are by virtue of interacting with a sighted majority, ambassadors of blindness. educating does not always get to unfold on our own, terms. It's still education nonetheless? /2012, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >I have been told that my cane looked like a fishing pole before. >Now, having held and used a fishing pole before, I cannot imagine >why someone might think this. > >Aleeha > >On Jul 18, 2012, at 3:10 AM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > > > A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked > > why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest > > story involving my cane that I can think of. > > So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me > > and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? > > I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He > > said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. > > What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. > > > > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. > >> I can't stand those kinds of people! > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >>> Hi, Josh, > >>> > >>> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's > >>> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM > >>> 7/17/2012, you wrote: > >>>> LOL! > >>>> It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. > >>>> Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! > >>>> I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. > >>>> I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all > >>>> there mentally asked this question about my cane. > >>>> "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" > >>>> Good grief! > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >>>>> Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel > >>>>> having > >>>>> > >>>>> your stick touched? XD > >>>>> Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store > >>>>> person, someone in the airport or something like that. > >>>>> So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on > >>>>> the > >>>>> bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people > >>>>> grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! > >>>>> I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my > >>>>> eyes, > >>>>> > >>>>> so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. > >>>>> I > >>>>> feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people > >>>>> stand > >>>>> it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're > >>>>> touching > >>>>> my > >>>>> stick, can they please get their hands off... > >>>>> I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon, > >>>>> I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. > >>>>> If > >>>>> they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they > >>>>> leave > >>>>> the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off > >>>>> elsewhere > >>>>> and get someone else's help. > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't > >>>>> found > >>>>> a way to prevent it. > >>>>> When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm > >>>>> holding > >>>>> their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching > >>>>> stairs. > >>>>> I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and > >>>>> it's > >>>>> on > >>>>> the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive > >>>>> to > >>>>> me > >>>>> as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. > >>>>> Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? > >>>>> Because > >>>>> it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them > >>>>> out, > >>>>> because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely > >>>>> to > >>>>> please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still > >>>>> feel > >>>>> violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. > >>>>> I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, > >>>>> but > >>>>> I > >>>>> really have no idea how to prevent it. > >>>>> If anyone has any idea, please let me know! > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>>>> > >>>>> Evening, Katie, > >>>>> > >>>>> Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people > >>>>> functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not > >>>>> capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty > >>>>> counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as > >>>>> people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is > >>>>> that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating > >>>>> the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a > >>>>> little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people > >>>>> think of this? > >>>>> At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: > >>>>>> Katie, > >>>>>> Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you > >>>>>> that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people > >>>>>> that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for > >>>>>> themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a > >>>>>> person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. > >>>>>> When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, > >>>>>> take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was > >>>>>> walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me > >>>>>> how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great > >>>>>> conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me > >>>>>> an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. > >>>>>> Patrick > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>>>>>> LOL! > >>>>>>> That's a good one! > >>>>>>> I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > >>>>>>> blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >>>>>>>> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >>>>>>>> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >>>>>>>> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >>>>>>>> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >>>>>>>> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>> From: Liliya Asadullina >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And I agree about adding in humour. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi Katie, > >>>>>>>> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >>>>>>>> well. I > >>>>>>>> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >>>>>>>> telling > >>>>>>>> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >>>>>>>> far as > >>>>>>>> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >>>>>>>> already > >>>>>>>> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >>>>>>>> It's > >>>>>>>> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >>>>>>>> grow up. > >>>>>>>> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >>>>>>>> yourself > >>>>>>>> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >>>>>>>> though > >>>>>>>> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >>>>>>>> Get > >>>>>>>> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >>>>>>>> them that > >>>>>>>> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >>>>>>>> do is > >>>>>>>> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >>>>>>>> get > >>>>>>>> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >>>>>>>> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >>>>>>>> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >>>>>>>> where > >>>>>>>> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >>>>>>>> example, I am > >>>>>>>> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >>>>>>>> I am > >>>>>>>> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >>>>>>>> get my > >>>>>>>> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >>>>>>>> taking > >>>>>>>> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >>>>>>>> with me. > >>>>>>>> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >>>>>>>> begin, and > >>>>>>>> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >>>>>>>> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >>>>>>>> questions > >>>>>>>> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >>>>>>>> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >>>>>>>> year. > >>>>>>>> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >>>>>>>> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >>>>>>>> vision, then > >>>>>>>> they aren't worth being friends with... > >>>>>>>> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >>>>>>>> out to > >>>>>>>> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >>>>>>>> succeed. > >>>>>>>> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >>>>>>>> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >>>>>>>> college as > >>>>>>>> well. > >>>>>>>> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >>>>>>>> Center > >>>>>>>> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >>>>>>>> college > >>>>>>>> and in myself too. > >>>>>>>> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >>>>>>>> away > >>>>>>>> from my home town and family. > >>>>>>>> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >>>>>>>> well! > >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >>>>>>>> time > >>>>>>>> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >>>>>>>> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >>>>>>>> Cheers! > >>>>>>>> Liliya > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >>>>>>>> this fall. > >>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >>>>>>>> couldn't see. > >>>>>>>> In > >>>>>>>> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >>>>>>>> again. Any > >>>>>>>> advice would be helpful. > >>>>>>>> THANKS > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>>>> info for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >>>>>>>> mail.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 13:20:43 2012 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:20:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Education of the general public was Re: Freshman year In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120718052212.01dd7108@comcast.net> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net> <90D7EC51-83AF-4D8E-A665-C2B0F063735C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120718052212.01dd7108@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello, I was not resenting the fact that my cane was referred to as a fishing pole. I don't believe I mentioned my resentment of this in my last post and was merely telling a story, following the direction of the thread, that described an occurrence where my cane was referred to as something rather humorous. I truly believe in the education of the general public about my blindness and the tools that naturally accompany said blindness, for if we do not educate the public, how can their attitude change? Now, let me give you a little background to this situation. My grandfather, a big supporter of everything I do, was the one who referred to my cane as a fishing pole. Even though my grandfather has known and interacted with me for 18years, going on 19 now, I still took the opportunity to educate him about the differences between this new NFB cane and my old graphite one, which, to him, did not appear to be anything other than a cane. I would advise you to be careful about making accusations such as this one before you have more than three sentences of a story that give you no background into the person's attitudes or beliefs. I am not trying to sound angry, but I did take slight offencs to your question. Best, Aleeha On Jul 18, 2012, at 8:26 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Aleeha, > > Are there educating opportunities underlying somewhere, to grow resentful over people's misidentification of your cane? We are by virtue of interacting with a sighted majority, ambassadors of blindness. educating does not always get to unfold on our own, terms. It's still education nonetheless? /2012, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >> I have been told that my cane looked like a fishing pole before. Now, having held and used a fishing pole before, I cannot imagine why someone might think this. >> >> Aleeha >> >> On Jul 18, 2012, at 3:10 AM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >> > A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked >> > why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest >> > story involving my cane that I can think of. >> > So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me >> > and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? >> > I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He >> > said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. >> > What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. >> > >> > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. >> >> I can't stand those kinds of people! >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> Hi, Josh, >> >>> >> >>> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's >> >>> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM >> >>> 7/17/2012, you wrote: >> >>>> LOL! >> >>>> It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >> >>>> Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >> >>>> I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >> >>>> I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >> >>>> there mentally asked this question about my cane. >> >>>> "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >> >>>> Good grief! >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>>>> Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel >> >>>>> having >> >>>>> >> >>>>> your stick touched? XD >> >>>>> Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store >> >>>>> person, someone in the airport or something like that. >> >>>>> So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people >> >>>>> grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >> >>>>> I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my >> >>>>> eyes, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people >> >>>>> stand >> >>>>> it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're >> >>>>> touching >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> stick, can they please get their hands off... >> >>>>> I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon, >> >>>>> I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. >> >>>>> If >> >>>>> they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they >> >>>>> leave >> >>>>> the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >> >>>>> elsewhere >> >>>>> and get someone else's help. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hello, >> >>>>> This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't >> >>>>> found >> >>>>> a way to prevent it. >> >>>>> When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm >> >>>>> holding >> >>>>> their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >> >>>>> stairs. >> >>>>> I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >> >>>>> it's >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> me >> >>>>> as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. >> >>>>> Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? >> >>>>> Because >> >>>>> it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >> >>>>> out, >> >>>>> because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >> >>>>> feel >> >>>>> violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. >> >>>>> I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, >> >>>>> but >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> really have no idea how to prevent it. >> >>>>> If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Evening, Katie, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >> >>>>> functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >> >>>>> capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >> >>>>> counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >> >>>>> people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >> >>>>> that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >> >>>>> the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >> >>>>> little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >> >>>>> think of this? >> >>>>> At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> >>>>>> Katie, >> >>>>>> Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >> >>>>>> that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >> >>>>>> that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >> >>>>>> themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >> >>>>>> person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >> >>>>>> When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >> >>>>>> take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >> >>>>>> walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >> >>>>>> how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >> >>>>>> conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >> >>>>>> an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >> >>>>>> Patrick >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>>>>>> LOL! >> >>>>>>> That's a good one! >> >>>>>>> I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> >>>>>>> blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>>>>>>> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> >>>>>>>> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> >>>>>>>> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >>>>>>>> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >>>>>>>> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>>> From: Liliya Asadullina > >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi Katie, >> >>>>>>>> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >>>>>>>> well. I >> >>>>>>>> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >>>>>>>> telling >> >>>>>>>> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >>>>>>>> far as >> >>>>>>>> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >>>>>>>> already >> >>>>>>>> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >>>>>>>> It's >> >>>>>>>> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >>>>>>>> grow up. >> >>>>>>>> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >>>>>>>> yourself >> >>>>>>>> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >>>>>>>> though >> >>>>>>>> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >>>>>>>> Get >> >>>>>>>> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >>>>>>>> them that >> >>>>>>>> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >>>>>>>> do is >> >>>>>>>> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >>>>>>>> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >>>>>>>> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >>>>>>>> where >> >>>>>>>> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >>>>>>>> example, I am >> >>>>>>>> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >>>>>>>> I am >> >>>>>>>> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >>>>>>>> get my >> >>>>>>>> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >>>>>>>> taking >> >>>>>>>> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >>>>>>>> with me. >> >>>>>>>> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >>>>>>>> begin, and >> >>>>>>>> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >>>>>>>> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >>>>>>>> questions >> >>>>>>>> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >>>>>>>> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >>>>>>>> year. >> >>>>>>>> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >>>>>>>> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >>>>>>>> vision, then >> >>>>>>>> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >>>>>>>> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >>>>>>>> out to >> >>>>>>>> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >>>>>>>> succeed. >> >>>>>>>> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >>>>>>>> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >>>>>>>> college as >> >>>>>>>> well. >> >>>>>>>> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >>>>>>>> Center >> >>>>>>>> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >>>>>>>> college >> >>>>>>>> and in myself too. >> >>>>>>>> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >>>>>>>> away >> >>>>>>>> from my home town and family. >> >>>>>>>> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >>>>>>>> well! >> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >>>>>>>> time >> >>>>>>>> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >>>>>>>> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >>>>>>>> Cheers! >> >>>>>>>> Liliya >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >>>>>>>> this fall. >> >>>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>>> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >>>>>>>> couldn't see. >> >>>>>>>> In >> >>>>>>>> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >>>>>>>> again. Any >> >>>>>>>> advice would be helpful. >> >>>>>>>> THANKS >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >>>>>>>> mail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 13:36:47 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:36:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ATI jobs was LWSB Little Rock Employment TrainingPrograms References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9308CF3973584E36AB4A336C1672ADAA@Gloria> what position do you hold if I might ask? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ATI jobs was LWSB Little Rock Employment TrainingPrograms Hello, Here is my take on certifications. They are very useful in getting hired, not in knowing and being able to utilize skills taught to you. A certification can be as meaningless as a printed piece of paper stating that you have a certification in... uh... computer hardware just simply because you can push the power button on a computer and you can plug in a flash drive into the machine. Insane, right? But it's' true. All you have to put down on your resume is that you have a cert and agencies look and see that and go "wow"! Take, for instance, my current place of hire. They looked and saw that I had an Assistive Technology Certification from Worls Services for the Blind as well as a Freedom Scientific JAWS certification and an IC³ certification and they were so amazed they practically offered me a job before I even filled out a job application. Of course IC³ is out of date, the Freedom ScienceFiction one isn't worth a whole lot because it doesn't prepare an individual to teach and the piece of paper that World Services gives out is worth less than the paper it's printed on simply because the instructor didn't know basic commands and no skills on instruction were provided, however I got hired mostly because I went through the BS beurocratic process of obtaining these certifications. The people I work for are amazed when I say this, and they were under the impression that that many certifications meant that I had worked extremely hard and done something amazing. Well, let me tell you that I went through an Assistive Tech course at World Services that should have taken nine months in under four and during that time I also obtained my citizenship and did some other things as well that consumed some of my time. So, in four months I obtained three pieces of paper that, again, mean less and are worth less than the printed page they're on. But as a result, I am hired whereas before because of my lack of a degree and written qualifications I wasn't able to get so much as an interview, let alone a competitive job offer. And you can always make your own work if you are unable to find a specific ATI position. The college degree requirements are almost meaningless when looking for one of these jobs as because there is such a shortage, they'll take almost anyone. The more competitive edge you have, even with a meaningless certification, the better off you are and the easier it is to find meaningful employment. Thanks, and I hope this helps. On 7/18/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Disiree, > > I actually believe the opposite is true. You say state centers are > shutting > > down. Its true due to budget cuts and schools for the blind too are > closing > > their doors. Its about saving money. As to the AT field, its growing. > There are many jobs out there. In fact, more than is supply for it. > I mean more jobs are still vacant due to lack of people. You can work many > places. You can be your own company and contract with agencys, schools, > and > > private individuals to teach them. Other places are various lighthouses, > nonprofits serving the blind such as something like Society for the blind > in > > CA which has an opening or two now, and veterans administration > facilities. > > Also, you might be able to create a job at any number of senior facilities > due to the rising aging population with visual problems. They will likely > use zoomtext or another magnifier, not jaws. but its still teaching AT. > I could see that happening, selling your skills to such a facility and > they > > create a job for you. You could work at an assistive living facility, > retirement community, or even a senior center in the community; I know in > my > > area they have computer classes for them; surely, some seniors have visual > impairments who would benefit from assistive tech instruction. Many do not > know it exists! > > The problem I see is that just about anyone can call themselves a > technology instructor. There are no standards for it. > I wish there were though. So if you want to get training, you just go to > anyone and hope they can teach what they say > they can. If anyone has the assistive tech certification, I'd be > interested > > in hearing what you learned and how it worked. Not that I would teach AT > as > > a career, but I've thought about it as a side job. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:11 AM > To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Hi, > Well, that's interesting. I think I might look into this Access > Technology Institute, just to see what it offers. Now, don't anybody > take this the wrong way, but how useful is a certification in teaching > assistive technology? Are there many job openings for it? I understand > that most of these instructors work in training centers, whether > they're NFB centers or not, but the state centers, from what I've > heard and to a certain extent experienced personally, are shutting > down left and right, so I would imagine there would be a decline in > the demand for such instructors right there. Of course, the NFB > centers have no intention of closing, so there's always that. I don't > even know if ATI's would be used in schools. I would think you would > have to be a teacher of the visually impaired, which encompasses a lot > more than just the technological aspect of things. So what else is out > there for people who would want to go this route, and ultimately, is > it worth it? > > On 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> The Access Technology Institute is totally accessible, and in fact is >> ran by an individual that hs taught many in the field. Cathy has lots >> and lots of experience in the field and many textbooks in the various >> areas of assistive/adaptive technology. While I don't beloieve I would >> benefit from her training based off of what I've seen from her >> textbooks, I would recommend that anyone that wishes to go into the >> field to look into this training over WSB's training, even with their >> new instructor because of the difference in philosophy. The class at >> WSB is there to instruct the IRS students how to use the computers >> over a three to four week period because WSB is too cheap to hire a >> few instructors full-time to do this. Access Technology Institute >> concentrates on teaching you the technology, but they also focus on >> the teaching part, which is crucial to be an instructor of >> assistive/adaptive technology. Adverp, the professional organization >> for whatever they stand for, are looking at starting an ATI >> certification and are looking at ways to implement this, so we will >> hopefully be seeing some results in methodology and training options >> for people wishing to go into the field. This will most likely take a >> while to implement, but I personally can't wait to see more people >> going into the field with more experience both in the use of the >> technology but also in the ability to instruct others in the use of >> the technology. >> >> Thanks. >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make >>> it >>> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my >>> understanding >>> >>> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised >>> marks >>> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and >>> probably >>> >>> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, >>> its >>> >>> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >>> than we really do. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> >>> That's what's going on. >>> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >>> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >>> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >>> technology. >>> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >>> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >>> etc. >>> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >>> the need for such machines? >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>>> organizational position. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the >>>>> NFB >>>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>>> try >>>>> so >>>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>>> meet >>>>> in >>>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>>> graduating from college. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>>> > >>>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>>> to an NFB center >>>>>> > yourself? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>>> there for many years. At >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>>> Its former blind >>>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>>> failed to address >>>>>> >> these >>>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>>> >> pay >>>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>>> that picket line. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>>> center. These centers >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>>> best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber, >>>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>>> a good job for >>>>>> >> someone >>>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>>> that >>>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>>> clients it does. >>>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>>> job program? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>>> they need to account >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>>> to know where >>>>>> >> everyone >>>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>>> my room. >>>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>>> >> to. >>>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>>> definitely nice. >>>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>>> training or whatever you >>>>>> >> need. >>>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>>> if you are a current >>>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >> you. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ashley >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list' >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>>> only facts and not color >>>>>> >> those >>>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>>> will clearly state that >>>>>> >> if >>>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>>> one should attend this >>>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>>> >> you >>>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>>> experienced here has >>>>>> >> colored >>>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The facts: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>>> codes. (just one >>>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>>> wings, and though the >>>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>>> not mention this, except >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>>> >> inside >>>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>>> mine is not the only >>>>>> >> one >>>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>>> clients.) >>>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>>> building is full of >>>>>> >> bugs. >>>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>>> bugs were found even >>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>>> not leave food in >>>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>>> them etc.) >>>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>>> >> very >>>>>> >> well. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>>> talk about, but they >>>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>>> really are just normal >>>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>>> >> are >>>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>>> >> So >>>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>>> could go to a dining >>>>>> >> hall >>>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>>> meals at the times >>>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>>> >> when >>>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>>> that we can't even >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>>> may maintain the >>>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>>> >> I >>>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>>> would be doing a great >>>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>>> center. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>>> >> with >>>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>>> female passenger who >>>>>> >> had >>>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>>> control from there, but >>>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>>> you're home!" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>>> beginning, should have >>>>>> >> been >>>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>>> father, and possibly >>>>>> >> even >>>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>>> >> what >>>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>>> only you can decide that >>>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>>> reported multiple times >>>>>> >> by >>>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>>> another, and still holds >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>>> going on here that I am >>>>>> >> unaware >>>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>>> >> could >>>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>>> it does not, please know >>>>>> >> that >>>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> >> Behalf >>>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Ian, >>>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>>> to go there on to >>>>>> >> stay >>>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>>> >> made >>>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>>> think about visiting >>>>>> >> there >>>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>>> an option to live off >>>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>>> however, this is know >>>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>>> everyone blind and >>>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>>> and frankly since you >>>>>> >> have >>>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>>> changes under the new >>>>>> >> director >>>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>>> decision. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Anmol >>>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>>> is vague, like a >>>>>> >> breeze >>>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>>> Training Programs >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>>> >>> Hi >>>>>> >>> I’m wondering if any of you have attended >>>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>>> general? >>>>>> >>> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>>> environment, even >>>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>>> instance, you have to >>>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your >>>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>>> >>> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s >>>>>> not as independent of an >>>>>> >>> environment. >>>>>> >>> Ian >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cordially, >> >> Nimer Jaber >> >> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains >> some information about the email you have just read and all >> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and >> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. >> >> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was >> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, >> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this >> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents >> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or >> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding >> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is >> up to you. Thanks. >> >> Registered Linux User 529141. >> http://counter.li.org/ >> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator >> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, >> please click here: >> http://www.vinuxproject.org >> >> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP >> and above, please click here: >> http://www.nvda-project.org >> >> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. >> >> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: >> http://nimertech.blogspot.com >> >> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) >> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank >> you, and have a great day! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 14:31:58 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:31:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> Message-ID: <005301cd64f2$170502c0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Access Technology Institute Amber is this free of charge, or is their a fee? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herrin, Amber R." To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > Ashley, > > I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive > technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have decided > to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to anyone looking > for any kind of certification for assistive technology. > > Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 month > course in assistive technology. > > As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who > come here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted > into the program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. > Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can > gather and present to anyone who would do anything. > > I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit through > my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as evidenced by the > lie that my state counselor caught him in. > > Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been taken > care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. This was > not discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I mentioned it in > passing while on the phone with her, but the point is that he didn't say > that he would check to be sure it had been taken care of, or that he had > sent out requests for it to be taken care of, but he assured her that it > absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. > > Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days > later, but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things change > here because not enough people at one time makes a big enough deal about > the problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they choose not to > come back, it all gets swept under the rug. > > Wash, rinse, repeat. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for someone > who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB continues to > stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are in a > training setting and with this litigious society, they need to account for > everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to know where everyone > is. People go missing everyday and are never found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or friends or family calling and them saying, oh, we do not know > where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I wanted > to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between 7 > and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you luck in your next decision to find decent training or whatever you > need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a current > college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more doors > to you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what I > have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not color > those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly state > that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not one should > attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would have to say no. But > I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and what I have experienced > here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, except > this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light bulbs (not > protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall where water could > be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a concern, so they put a > cover over mine, but mine is not the only one that this is the case with > (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite several complaints from many > clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found even > in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food in > uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) *Clients are > unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, and so are > reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except they > are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. > So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a dining > hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at the times > specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can argue that when > in school, you have to work with a particular schedule, and while this is > true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact that we can't even have > microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the > schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but I > feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a great > disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He was > picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage claim > with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure approached > me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the female passenger who > had offered to walk with me that he "had it under control from there, but > thanks." After which, he looked down at me and said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have been > treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and possibly > even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally since my > arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it was wayyy > wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even acceptable > regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide that > for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported multiple times > by other females that he has violated in one way or another, and still > holds a job here. I believe there is something big going on here that I > am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that LWSB has > made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think about visiting > there before deciding one way or the other. They do have an option to live > off campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a sign in and sign > out policy after class time. Now they may have sign in and sign out > policy during class time to keep count of attendance, however, this is > know different signing in and signing out of work which everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since you > have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at > 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known as > World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said > earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any of >> you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 13:46:04 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:46:04 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78F4E17DFA3C4F9785B8EFDBB8DA438B@userPC> I have two of them but I don't use them. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:51 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't think we need. They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without problems, and I don't have the machine. I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Joshua, > While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it > sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my understanding > > from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks > on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and probably > > a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, its > > an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets > than we really do. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > That's what's going on. > Their independence training was a scam, as well. > My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not > NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive > technology. > When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a > machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) > etc. > If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress > the need for such machines? > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >> organizational position. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>> try >>> so >>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB meet >>> in >>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>> graduating from college. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>> > >>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>> employment-related assistance and >>>> > >>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>> to an NFB center >>>> > yourself? >>>> > >>>> > Peter Donahue >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>> > She needs job training. >>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > >>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>> >> >>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>> >> and >>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>> blind persons it claims >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>> there for many years. At >>>> >> one >>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>> Its former blind >>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>> reputation for condoning >>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>> >> in >>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>> than the Federal minimum >>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>> failed to address >>>> >> these >>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>> agency's grounds to be >>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>> workshops they accredited to >>>> >> pay >>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>> >> >>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>> >> there >>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>> for the Blind and the >>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>> problems and that it needed >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>> that picket line. >>>> >> >>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>> center. These centers >>>> >> are >>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>> best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber, >>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>> commend your efforts in >>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>> a good job for >>>> >> someone >>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>> that >>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>> clients it does. >>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>> job program? >>>> >> >>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>> bother me. You are in >>>> >> a >>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>> they need to account >>>> >> for >>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>> to know where >>>> >> everyone >>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>> not. >>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>> would bother me. As a >>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>> my room. >>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>> >> to. >>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>> definitely nice. >>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>> late at home; between 7 >>>> >> and >>>> >> 8pm. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>> training or whatever you >>>> >> need. >>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>> if you are a current >>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>> it opens up more doors >>>> >> to >>>> >> you. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ashley >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list' >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>> Friday. Here is what >>>> >> I >>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>> only facts and not color >>>> >> those >>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>> will clearly state that >>>> >> if >>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>> one should attend this >>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>> say no. But I am not >>>> >> you >>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>> experienced here has >>>> >> colored >>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>> >> >>>> >> The facts: >>>> >> >>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>> valuables go missing. >>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>> codes. (just one >>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>> wings, and though the >>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>> not mention this, except >>>> >> this >>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>> by any kind of panels) >>>> >> inside >>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>> splashed. I brought >>>> >> this >>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>> mine is not the only >>>> >> one >>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>> clients.) >>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>> building is full of >>>> >> bugs. >>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>> bugs were found even >>>> >> in >>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>> not leave food in >>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>> them etc.) >>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>> >> and >>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>> all except cafeteria >>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>> exist, but they do not work >>>> >> very >>>> >> well. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>> talk about, but they >>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>> really are just normal >>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>> college dorm, except they >>>> >> are >>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>> scaled down hugely. >>>> >> So >>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining >>>> >> hall >>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>> meals at the times >>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that >>>> >> when >>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>> schedule, and while this is >>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>> that we can't even >>>> >> have >>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>> may maintain the >>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>> >> >>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>> not affect anyone, but >>>> >> I >>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>> would be doing a great >>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>> center. >>>> >> >>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>> authority figure. He was >>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>> >> with >>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>> authority figure approached me >>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>> waist, hugged me to >>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who >>>> >> had >>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but >>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>> you're home!" >>>> >> >>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>> beginning, should have >>>> >> been >>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>> father, and possibly >>>> >> even >>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>> >> what >>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>> regardless of setting. >>>> >> >>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>> only you can decide that >>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>> man who did this to me was >>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>> reported multiple times >>>> >> by >>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds >>>> >> >>>> >> a >>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am >>>> >> unaware >>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>> regardless of that, I >>>> >> could >>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>> it does not, please know >>>> >> that >>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>> >> >>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>> >> It's just a reason >>>> >> For someone not to try >>>> >> >>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>> >> Out on the water >>>> >> It'll be alright >>>> >> >>>> >> Life is so much more >>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> >> You will find your way >>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >> Behalf >>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >> >>>> >> Ian, >>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>> to go there on to >>>> >> stay >>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>> say is that LWSB has >>>> >> made >>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>> think about visiting >>>> >> there >>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>> an option to live off >>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>> sign in and sign out >>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>> however, this is know >>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>> everyone blind and >>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>> and frankly since you >>>> >> have >>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>> it is a guarantied >>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>> above LWSB now known as >>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>> changes under the new >>>> >> director >>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>> As I said earlier, I >>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>> decision. >>>> >> >>>> >> Anmol >>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>> is vague, like a >>>> >> breeze >>>> >> among flowers. >>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>> Training Programs >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> >>> Hi >>>> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended >>>> LWSB for one of their >>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>> general? >>>> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>> was reading the manual, >>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>> environment, even >>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>> instance, you have to >>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>> like that. Have any of >>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>>> experiences were. Since >>>> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>>> not as independent of an >>>> >>> environment. >>>> >>> Ian >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>> >>> oo.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 13:49:22 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:49:22 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <8588479234D2480180CE047E37E13DFD@OwnerPC> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <8588479234D2480180CE047E37E13DFD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7BF4DDB4B3634AC0B2606403914DA17A@userPC> Ashley I'm with you. I don't know if people are doing that to me either unless I am told. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Carley, It depends. if they stare a lot I have issue. its rude to do that as a norm. Why should they do that just because I cannot see? If they do it ocasionally, I suppose its okay. But someone doing it a while watching my moves makes me un comfortable. I don't usually know if they stare unless someone I'm with says so. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > LOL! > > That's a good one! > > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about > > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out > >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that > >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be > >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act > >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Liliya Asadullina >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >> > >> And I agree about adding in humour. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > >> Hi Katie, > >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as > >> well. I > >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after > >> telling > >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As > >> far as > >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are > >> already > >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. > >> It's > >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to > >> grow up. > >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be > >> yourself > >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even > >> though > >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. > >> Get > >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to > >> them that > >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can > >> do is > >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to > >> get > >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and > >> where > >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For > >> example, I am > >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that > >> I am > >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to > >> get my > >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be > >> taking > >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing > >> with me. > >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes > >> begin, and > >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any > >> questions > >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your > >> year. > >> Be confident in you! You've got this! > >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you > >> for > >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some > >> vision, then > >> they aren't worth being friends with... > >> People come to college from all different areas around the world > >> and > >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach > >> out to > >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can > >> succeed. > >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for > >> college as > >> well. > >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado > >> Center > >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to > >> college > >> and in myself too. > >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate > >> away > >> from my home town and family. > >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do > >> well! > >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any > >> time > >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > >> Cheers! > >> Liliya > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college > >> this fall. > >> I > >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they > >> couldn't see. > >> In > >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen > >> again. Any > >> advice would be helpful. > >> THANKS > >> > >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p ccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From kaybaycar at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 15:44:39 2012 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <7BF4DDB4B3634AC0B2606403914DA17A@userPC> References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net> <8588479234D2480180CE047E37E13DFD@OwnerPC> <7BF4DDB4B3634AC0B2606403914DA17A@userPC> Message-ID: Hi all, I have had a similar problem. I use a guide dog, and similarly, when people grab her harness or leash, I get rather panicky. I have had to make a decision that when someone grabs her harness handle or leash from my hand, I will not move. I will stop, plant my feet, and tell them that my dog and I are fine and to please let go. I have heard a situation in which someone grabbs a dog harness or cane compared to someone taking the steeringwheel from a sighted person. I don't know if I would go that far, but it is dangerous. It has been such a problem for me in certain places that my dog now knows to stop when someone else takes hold of her equipment when she is working. Once they understand that it is actually frightening to you when your cane or dog is taken out of your control, most people will not do it again. On 7/18/12, Rania Ismail CMT wrote: > Ashley I'm with you. I don't know if people are doing that to me either > unless I am told. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Carley, > It depends. if they stare a lot I have issue. its rude to do that as a > norm. > > Why should they do that just because I cannot see? > If they do it ocasionally, I suppose its okay. But someone doing it a > while > > watching my moves makes me un comfortable. I don't usually know if they > stare unless someone I'm with says so. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carly Mihalakis > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > > Evening, Katie, > > Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people > functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not > capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty > counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as > people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is > that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating > the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a > little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people > think of this? > At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>Katie, >>Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >>that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >>that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >>themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >>person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >>When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >>take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >>walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >>how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >>conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >>an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >>Patrick >> >>On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > LOL! >> > That's a good one! >> > I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> > blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >> >> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >> >> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Liliya Asadullina > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> > >> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >> >> >> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >> Hi Katie, >> >> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >> well. I >> >> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >> telling >> >> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >> far as >> >> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >> already >> >> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >> It's >> >> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >> grow up. >> >> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >> yourself >> >> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >> though >> >> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >> Get >> >> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >> them that >> >> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >> do is >> >> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >> get >> >> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >> where >> >> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >> example, I am >> >> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >> I am >> >> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >> get my >> >> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >> taking >> >> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >> with me. >> >> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >> begin, and >> >> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >> questions >> >> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >> year. >> >> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >> for >> >> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >> vision, then >> >> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >> and >> >> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >> out to >> >> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >> succeed. >> >> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >> college as >> >> well. >> >> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >> Center >> >> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >> college >> >> and in myself too. >> >> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >> away >> >> from my home town and family. >> >> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >> well! >> >> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >> time >> >> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >> Cheers! >> >> Liliya >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >> this fall. >> >> I >> >> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >> couldn't see. >> >> In >> >> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >> again. Any >> >> advice would be helpful. >> >> THANKS >> >> >> >> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 16:19:50 2012 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:19:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <78F4E17DFA3C4F9785B8EFDBB8DA438B@userPC> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <78F4E17DFA3C4F9785B8EFDBB8DA438B@userPC> Message-ID: they are quite expensive, so I recommend that you get a rehab counselor to pay if you need to and can't afford the price as most people can't. On 7/18/12, Rania Ismail CMT wrote: > I have two of them but I don't use them. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:51 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't > think we need. > They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without > problems, and I don't have the machine. > I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my > understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and > probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, > its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 17:23:02 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:23:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year Message-ID: <5006f10e.e188ec0a.76ec.ffffa841@mx.google.com> I, too, have been asked funny things about my blindness. I was at a park one day when this little girl came up to me and asked me why my eyes were funny. (I have prosthetics.) And I told her that God had just made them that way. Needless to say, I spent the rest of that afternoon trying to get away from a psycho six-year-old stalker. LOL. ----- Original Message ----- From: Desiree Oudinot wrote: Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. I can't stand those kinds of people! Blessings, Joshua On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: Hi, Josh, Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote: LOL! It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all there mentally asked this question about my cane. "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel having your stick touched? XD Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store person, someone in the airport or something like that. So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on the bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my eyes, so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. I feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people stand it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're touching my stick, can they please get their hands off... I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Brandon, I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. If they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they leave the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off elsewhere and get someone else's help. -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Hello, This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't found a way to prevent it. When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm holding their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching stairs. I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and it's on the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive to me as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? Because it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them out, because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely to please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still feel violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, but I really have no idea how to prevent it. If anyone has any idea, please let me know! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year Evening, Katie, Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people think of this? At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: Katie, Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. Patrick On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: LOL! That's a good one! I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. Blessings, Joshua On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. ----- Original Message ----- From: Liliya Asadullina wrote: Hi Katie, My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as well. I understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after telling people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As far as I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are already in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. It's more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to grow up. Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be yourself and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even though you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. Get involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to them that you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can do is educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to get out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and where ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For example, I am emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that I am blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to get my work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be taking notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing with me. I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes begin, and will be asking them if they have any questions for me. Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any questions for you about blindness to feel free to ask. Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your year. Be confident in you! You've got this! College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you for who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some vision, then they aren't worth being friends with... People come to college from all different areas around the world and each student has something unique about them. So just reach out to those around you and show them that no matter what, you can succeed. I understand what you are going through in your mind though. I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for college as well. Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado Center For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to college and in myself too. Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate away from my home town and family. Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do well! If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any time at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu Cheers! Liliya On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college this fall. I was wondering how other people handled telling others they couldn't see. In high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen again. Any advice would be helpful. THANKS <3 Princess Cy-I <3 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co mcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co mcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 17:52:38 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:52:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Education of the general public was Re: Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net><6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC><7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net><90D7EC51-83AF-4D8E-A665-C2B0F063735C@gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120718052212.01dd7108@comcast.net> Message-ID: <800E7662E56F4927AA8EA076B924C51F@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, A fishing pole gets thinner closer to the end you get. So does an NFB cane. I find myself not resenting the opportunity to educate, but resenting the stupidity of some of the questions. I do realize that blindness is the most feared disability, but why would someone doubt my ability to get around? "You play baseball, so I don't think you can eat salad, because your hand can't close around the fork." I get it that the baseball player holds a bat and or a ball all day, but what does that have with holding a fork? Same with blindness... I get that you see a little better than me, but what does that have to do with me being able to get around? *Shrug* I'm still trying to come to terms with ignorance. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:20 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Education of the general public was Re: Freshman year Hello, I was not resenting the fact that my cane was referred to as a fishing pole. I don't believe I mentioned my resentment of this in my last post and was merely telling a story, following the direction of the thread, that described an occurrence where my cane was referred to as something rather humorous. I truly believe in the education of the general public about my blindness and the tools that naturally accompany said blindness, for if we do not educate the public, how can their attitude change? Now, let me give you a little background to this situation. My grandfather, a big supporter of everything I do, was the one who referred to my cane as a fishing pole. Even though my grandfather has known and interacted with me for 18years, going on 19 now, I still took the opportunity to educate him about the differences between this new NFB cane and my old graphite one, which, to him, did not appear to be anything other than a cane. I would advise you to be careful about making accusations such as this one before you have more than three sentences of a story that give you no background into the person's attitudes or beliefs. I am not trying to sound angry, but I did take slight offencs to your question. Best, Aleeha On Jul 18, 2012, at 8:26 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Aleeha, > > Are there educating opportunities underlying somewhere, to grow resentful > over people's misidentification of your cane? We are by virtue of > interacting with a sighted majority, ambassadors of blindness. educating > does not always get to unfold on our own, terms. It's still education > nonetheless? /2012, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >> I have been told that my cane looked like a fishing pole before. Now, >> having held and used a fishing pole before, I cannot imagine why someone >> might think this. >> >> Aleeha >> >> On Jul 18, 2012, at 3:10 AM, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >> >> > A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked >> > why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest >> > story involving my cane that I can think of. >> > So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me >> > and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? >> > I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He >> > said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. >> > What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. >> > >> > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. >> >> I can't stand those kinds of people! >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> Hi, Josh, >> >>> >> >>> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's >> >>> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM >> >>> 7/17/2012, you wrote: >> >>>> LOL! >> >>>> It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >> >>>> Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >> >>>> I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >> >>>> I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >> >>>> there mentally asked this question about my cane. >> >>>> "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >> >>>> Good grief! >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>>>> Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you >> >>>>> feel >> >>>>> having >> >>>>> >> >>>>> your stick touched? XD >> >>>>> Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a >> >>>>> store >> >>>>> person, someone in the airport or something like that. >> >>>>> So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but >> >>>>> people >> >>>>> grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >> >>>>> I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> eyes, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no >> >>>>> idea. >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people >> >>>>> stand >> >>>>> it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're >> >>>>> touching >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> stick, can they please get their hands off... >> >>>>> I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon, >> >>>>> I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their >> >>>>> arm. >> >>>>> If >> >>>>> they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that >> >>>>> they >> >>>>> leave >> >>>>> the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >> >>>>> elsewhere >> >>>>> and get someone else's help. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hello, >> >>>>> This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I >> >>>>> haven't >> >>>>> found >> >>>>> a way to prevent it. >> >>>>> When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when >> >>>>> I'm >> >>>>> holding >> >>>>> their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >> >>>>> stairs. >> >>>>> I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >> >>>>> it's >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as >> >>>>> offensive >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> me >> >>>>> as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on >> >>>>> purpose. >> >>>>> Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our >> >>>>> canes? >> >>>>> Because >> >>>>> it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >> >>>>> out, >> >>>>> because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them >> >>>>> nicely >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >> >>>>> feel >> >>>>> violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not >> >>>>> to. >> >>>>> I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about >> >>>>> blindness, >> >>>>> but >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> really have no idea how to prevent it. >> >>>>> If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Evening, Katie, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >> >>>>> functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are >> >>>>> not >> >>>>> capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >> >>>>> counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >> >>>>> people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >> >>>>> that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be >> >>>>> educating >> >>>>> the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >> >>>>> little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do >> >>>>> people >> >>>>> think of this? >> >>>>> At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> >>>>>> Katie, >> >>>>>> Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell >> >>>>>> you >> >>>>>> that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show >> >>>>>> people >> >>>>>> that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would >> >>>>>> a >> >>>>>> person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate >> >>>>>> them. >> >>>>>> When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or >> >>>>>> that, >> >>>>>> take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >> >>>>>> walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >> >>>>>> conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >> >>>>>> Patrick >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>>>>>> LOL! >> >>>>>>> That's a good one! >> >>>>>>> I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> >>>>>>> blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>>>>>>> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point >> >>>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>>> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke >> >>>>>>>> that >> >>>>>>>> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >>>>>>>> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >>>>>>>> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>>> From: Liliya Asadullina > >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi Katie, >> >>>>>>>> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >>>>>>>> well. I >> >>>>>>>> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >>>>>>>> telling >> >>>>>>>> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >>>>>>>> far as >> >>>>>>>> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >>>>>>>> already >> >>>>>>>> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >>>>>>>> It's >> >>>>>>>> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >>>>>>>> grow up. >> >>>>>>>> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >>>>>>>> yourself >> >>>>>>>> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >>>>>>>> though >> >>>>>>>> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >>>>>>>> Get >> >>>>>>>> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >>>>>>>> them that >> >>>>>>>> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >>>>>>>> do is >> >>>>>>>> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >>>>>>>> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >>>>>>>> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >>>>>>>> where >> >>>>>>>> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >>>>>>>> example, I am >> >>>>>>>> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >>>>>>>> I am >> >>>>>>>> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >>>>>>>> get my >> >>>>>>>> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >>>>>>>> taking >> >>>>>>>> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >>>>>>>> with me. >> >>>>>>>> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >>>>>>>> begin, and >> >>>>>>>> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >>>>>>>> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >>>>>>>> questions >> >>>>>>>> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >>>>>>>> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >>>>>>>> year. >> >>>>>>>> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >>>>>>>> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >>>>>>>> vision, then >> >>>>>>>> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >>>>>>>> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >>>>>>>> out to >> >>>>>>>> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >>>>>>>> succeed. >> >>>>>>>> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >>>>>>>> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >>>>>>>> college as >> >>>>>>>> well. >> >>>>>>>> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >>>>>>>> Center >> >>>>>>>> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >>>>>>>> college >> >>>>>>>> and in myself too. >> >>>>>>>> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >>>>>>>> away >> >>>>>>>> from my home town and family. >> >>>>>>>> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >>>>>>>> well! >> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >>>>>>>> time >> >>>>>>>> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >>>>>>>> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >>>>>>>> Cheers! >> >>>>>>>> Liliya >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >>>>>>>> this fall. >> >>>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>>> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >>>>>>>> couldn't see. >> >>>>>>>> In >> >>>>>>>> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >>>>>>>> again. Any >> >>>>>>>> advice would be helpful. >> >>>>>>>> THANKS >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >>>>>>>> mail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info >> >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 18:08:27 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:08:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Freshman year In-Reply-To: <5006f10e.e188ec0a.76ec.ffffa841@mx.google.com> References: <5006f10e.e188ec0a.76ec.ffffa841@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120718105648.01e13ed0@comcast.net> Good morning, Desiree, these days, as someone also having prosthetics, it does not seem in any way negative to expose little kids to a reality of some of us for reasons such as cancer or an accident, having prosthetics. Granted, as a child I was deathly mortified of people knowing of an inanimate nature of my eyes, so much so that when my friend from out of state came to visit, , and I had to go to the ocularist for some adjustment, I was mortified, made her go in a different room I think. Yet today, I have no problem with my close friends/acquaintances, knowng about it or taking my eyes out in the public bathroom to wash. Is it because I live in Berkeley, I don't know but, as I have come to see it, though our eyes happen to not be animate, they are still part of us and ought be regarded as such. >I, too, have been asked funny things about my blindness. I was at a >park one day when this little girl came up to me and asked me why my >eyes were funny. (I have prosthetics.) And I told her that God had >just made them that way. Needless to say, I spent the rest of that >afternoon trying to get away from a psycho six-year-old stalker. LOL. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Desiree Oudinot To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 03:10:36 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked >why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest >story involving my cane that I can think of. >So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me >and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? >I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He >said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. >What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. > >On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. >I can't stand those kinds of people! >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >Hi, Josh, > >Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's >ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM >7/17/2012, you wrote: >LOL! >It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >there mentally asked this question about my cane. >"What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >Good grief! >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you feel >having > >your stick touched? XD >Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a store >person, someone in the airport or something like that. >So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane on >the >bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but people >grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like my >eyes, > >so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no idea. >I >feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people >stand >it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're >touching >my >stick, can they please get their hands off... >I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Ashley Bramlett >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >Brandon, >I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their arm. >If >they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that they >leave >the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >elsewhere >and get someone else's help. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brandon Keith Biggs >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >Hello, >This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I haven't >found >a way to prevent it. >When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when I'm >holding >their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >stairs. >I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >it's >on >the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as offensive >to >me >as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on purpose. >Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our canes? >Because >it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >out, >because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them nicely >to >please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >feel >violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not to. >I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about blindness, >but >I >really have no idea how to prevent it. >If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Carly Mihalakis >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >Evening, Katie, > >Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are not >capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be educating >the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do people >think of this? >At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >Katie, >Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell you >that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show people >that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak for >themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would a >person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate them. >When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or that, >take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked me >how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send me >an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >Patrick > >On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >LOL! >That's a good one! >I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >Blessings, Joshua > >On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >When people first find out about my blindness, I always point out >that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke that >God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Liliya Asadullina To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year > >And I agree about adding in humour. > >On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > Hi Katie, > My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >well. I > understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >telling > people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >far as > I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >already > in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >It's > more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >grow up. > Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >yourself > and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >though > you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >Get > involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >them that > you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >do is > educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >get > out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st > semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. > Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >where > ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >example, I am > emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >I am > blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >get my > work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >taking > notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >with me. > I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >begin, and > will be asking them if they have any questions for me. > Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >questions > for you about blindness to feel free to ask. > Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >year. > Be confident in you! You've got this! > College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >for > who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >vision, then > they aren't worth being friends with... > People come to college from all different areas around the world >and > each student has something unique about them. So just reach >out to > those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >succeed. > I understand what you are going through in your mind though. > I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >college as > well. > Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >Center > For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >college > and in myself too. > Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >away > from my home town and family. > Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >well! > If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >time > at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. > Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu > Cheers! > Liliya > > On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: > Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >this fall. > I > was wondering how other people handled telling others they >couldn't see. > In > high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >again. Any > advice would be helpful. > THANKS > > <3 Princess Cy-I <3 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >mail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >0students.pccua.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy% >40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >mcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >0earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >0students.pccua.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >mcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >0students.pccua.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 18:45:38 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:45:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Message-ID: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello students, I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with me to school now. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 Palo Alto, CA 94306 650-833-9766 "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). ________________________________________ From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM To: Sonja Biggs Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook For Immediate Release: Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and not the scanner bed or camera. * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% accuracy! Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your feedback! Sincerely, The Freedom Scientific Team ************** P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) From hope.paulos at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 18:55:37 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:55:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. Sincerely, Hope Paulos Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello students, > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with me to school now. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > 650-833-9766 > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). > ________________________________________ > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > To: Sonja Biggs > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > For Immediate Release: > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and not the scanner bed or camera. > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% accuracy! > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your feedback! > > > > > > Sincerely, > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 18:59:26 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:59:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <002101cd6517$74b7ace0$5e2706a0$@gmail.com> Oh No! My gosh Brandon, this was about almost 4 months ago. This is an April fool's joke specifically for April 1. Unfortunately Brandon, as happy as you might be, Freedom Scientific did not release such products and am not sure how and when they will be released in the near future. And, I am the composer, producer, and distributor of the April fools press release article, and I did it for the sake of April fools tradition and such, and, yes, to dream the impossible and to have a little fun. I hope that FS is actually able to release those products I dreamed about in my article back on April fool's day. But for now, I'm glad you've enjoyed the reading, and keep dreaming! Sorry about that, Humberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:46 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Hello students, I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with me to school now. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 Palo Alto, CA 94306 650-833-9766 "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). ________________________________________ From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM To: Sonja Biggs Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook For Immediate Release: Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and not the scanner bed or camera. * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% accuracy! Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your feedback! Sincerely, The Freedom Scientific Team ************** P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 18 19:00:20 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:00:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow! It's a hoax, because the address of the one sending it, isn't one from Freedom Scientific's Website! That's how I recognized it. Blessings, Joshua On 7/18/12, Hope Paulos wrote: > This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. > Sincerely, > Hope Paulos > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello students, >> I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has >> happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with me >> to school now. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> >> Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> 650-833-9766 >> >> "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age >> 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> >> NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and >> are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged >> and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, >> you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or >> copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited >> and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). >> ________________________________________ >> From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> To: Sonja Biggs >> Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved >> OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> For Immediate Release: >> >> Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for >> JAWS and OpenBook >> >> Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and >> blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new >> breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind and >> visually impaired computer users. >> >> >> >> Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you >> can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be able >> to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to read it >> instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those frustrated >> students that are inundated with printed or handwritten material that you >> can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even >> hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, >> you are given a business card or a simple handout that is important, and >> you need to fill out or read along? >> >> >> >> Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> >> >> >> Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our >> users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> >> >> >> We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for >> both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes >> many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> >> >> >> * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of >> columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. >> * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such as >> note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and not >> the scanner bed or camera. >> * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% >> accuracy! >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for handwriting >> recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a handwritten >> note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your camera or >> scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically recognize it and >> be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output from your preferred >> synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, >> or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on >> your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later >> only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to you or >> sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new features offered >> by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software >> are only compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version >> 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will >> release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 >> later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, so you >> aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can >> work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. >> >> >> >> Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We >> have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for >> your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and >> reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using >> VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is >> going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you >> find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a >> trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need >> sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, >> or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church >> service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers >> easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more >> fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to >> have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your >> finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not >> have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if >> the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict >> that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod >> Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky >> note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently >> and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR >> engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! >> >> >> >> Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple >> iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. >> So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your >> iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of >> technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't >> hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >> support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your >> feedback! >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> >> P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:07:26 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:07:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19B211894631403E9151AD0D64448B5B@BrandonsLaptop2> I'm so sorry, I see that now, I never put P.S. after the name, so I only read to the name... I was going to say, Kurzweil will have a time with this. *Sigh, back to asking non existent people what the note on the door says. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Hope Paulos Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:55 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. Sincerely, Hope Paulos Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello students, > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has > happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with me > to school now. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and > Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > 650-833-9766 > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age > 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and > are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged > and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, > you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or > copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited > and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). > ________________________________________ > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > To: Sonja Biggs > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved > OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > For Immediate Release: > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for > JAWS and OpenBook > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and > blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new > breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind and > visually impaired computer users. > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you > can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be able > to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to read it > instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those frustrated > students that are inundated with printed or handwritten material that you > can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even > hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, > you are given a business card or a simple handout that is important, and > you need to fill out or read along? > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our > users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for > both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes > many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of > columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such as > note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and not > the scanner bed or camera. > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% > accuracy! > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for handwriting > recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a handwritten > note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your camera or > scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically recognize it and > be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output from your preferred > synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, > or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on > your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later > only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to you or > sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new features offered > by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software > are only compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version > 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will > release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 > later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, so you > aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can > work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We > have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for > your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and > reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using > VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is > going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you > find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a > trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need > sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, > or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church > service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers > easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more > fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to > have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your > finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not > have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if > the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict > that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod > Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky > note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently > and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR > engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple > iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. > So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your > iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of > technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't > hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at > support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your > feedback! > > > > > > Sincerely, > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:27:14 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:27:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002501cd651b$56ff59b0$04fe0d10$@gmail.com> Within agreement of what Hope said, yes, perhaps, I assume it was your mom who forwarded this to you, or whoever that was, should've read to the P.S. at the end. Also, if you want, I'll give you permission to use this next year and post to anyone of your blind contacts who use adaptive software and so they could get chuckles out of it as long as freedom Scientific doesn't release those products yet.. (smile). Peace, Humberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:56 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. Sincerely, Hope Paulos Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello students, > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with me to school now. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > 650-833-9766 > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). > ________________________________________ > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > To: Sonja Biggs > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > For Immediate Release: > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and not the scanner bed or camera. > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% accuracy! > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your feedback! > > > > > > Sincerely, > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:28:55 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:28:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> what? So this isn't true? Just wondering ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. > Sincerely, > Hope Paulos > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello students, >> I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has >> happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with >> me to school now. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> >> Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> 650-833-9766 >> >> "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age >> 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> >> NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and >> are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged >> and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, >> you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or >> copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited >> and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). >> ________________________________________ >> From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> To: Sonja Biggs >> Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved >> OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> For Immediate Release: >> >> Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for >> JAWS and OpenBook >> >> Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and >> blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new >> breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind >> and visually impaired computer users. >> >> >> >> Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you >> can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be >> able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to >> read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those >> frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten >> material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you >> have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you >> are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout >> that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? >> >> >> >> Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> >> >> >> Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our >> users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> >> >> >> We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for >> both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes >> many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> >> >> >> * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of >> columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. >> * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such >> as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and >> not the scanner bed or camera. >> * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% >> accuracy! >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for >> handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a >> handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your >> camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically >> recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output >> from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You >> can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with >> handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition >> command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the >> handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. >> Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of >> the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with >> Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please >> note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the >> new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with >> the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on >> these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- >> and 64-bit operating systems. >> >> >> >> Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We >> have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for >> your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and >> reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using >> VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is >> going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you >> find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a >> trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need >> sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, >> or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church >> service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers >> easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more >> fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to >> have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your >> finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and >> not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out >> if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling >> conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an >> iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that >> little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong >> quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting >> recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! >> >> >> >> Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple >> iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. >> So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your >> iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of >> technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't >> hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >> support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your >> feedback! >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> >> P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:33:11 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:33:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> Message-ID: <002601cd651c$2b75ea10$8261be30$@gmail.com> Unfortunately is not true. Remember the post I sent on april fools day? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook what? So this isn't true? Just wondering ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. > Sincerely, > Hope Paulos > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello students, >> I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has >> happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with >> me to school now. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> >> Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> 650-833-9766 >> >> "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age >> 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> >> NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and >> are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged >> and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, >> you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or >> copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited >> and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). >> ________________________________________ >> From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> To: Sonja Biggs >> Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved >> OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> For Immediate Release: >> >> Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for >> JAWS and OpenBook >> >> Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and >> blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new >> breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind >> and visually impaired computer users. >> >> >> >> Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you >> can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be >> able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to >> read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those >> frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten >> material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you >> have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you >> are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout >> that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? >> >> >> >> Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> >> >> >> Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our >> users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> >> >> >> We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for >> both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes >> many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> >> >> >> * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of >> columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. >> * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such >> as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and >> not the scanner bed or camera. >> * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% >> accuracy! >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for >> handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a >> handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your >> camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically >> recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output >> from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You >> can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with >> handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition >> command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the >> handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. >> Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of >> the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with >> Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please >> note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the >> new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with >> the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on >> these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- >> and 64-bit operating systems. >> >> >> >> Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We >> have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for >> your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and >> reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using >> VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is >> going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you >> find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a >> trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need >> sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, >> or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church >> service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers >> easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more >> fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to >> have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your >> finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and >> not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out >> if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling >> conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an >> iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that >> little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong >> quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting >> recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! >> >> >> >> Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple >> iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. >> So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your >> iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of >> technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't >> hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >> support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your >> feedback! >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> >> P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:35:07 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:35:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <19B211894631403E9151AD0D64448B5B@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> <19B211894631403E9151AD0D64448B5B@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <01a801cd651c$711f9fc0$535edf40$@gmail.com> Hi there. I might have an app for you as far as reading notes on the door if that's what you're wanting to do. Have you tried vizwiz? I've used this application to read vending machines, hand-written notes, rx numbers, and I have even resolved computer problems with this application. It uses web-workers to answer any question you may have about a particular object. It's free, as well! Can't beat the price. I too am looking for an open book OCR solution for IOS devices. Hope -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook I'm so sorry, I see that now, I never put P.S. after the name, so I only read to the name... I was going to say, Kurzweil will have a time with this. *Sigh, back to asking non existent people what the note on the door says. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Hope Paulos Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:55 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. Sincerely, Hope Paulos Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello students, > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has > happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad > with me to school now. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and > Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > 650-833-9766 > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, > Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private > and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the > attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). > ________________________________________ > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > To: Sonja Biggs > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and > Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > For Immediate Release: > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software > for JAWS and OpenBook > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading > and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released > a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for > blind and visually impaired computer users. > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere > you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to > be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able > to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of > those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or > handwritten material that you can't read in or out of a classroom > setting and you have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read > to you. Maybe you are at a conference, you are given a business card > or a simple handout that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from > our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine > for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release > includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of > columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, > such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print > focus and not the scanner bed or camera. > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% > accuracy! > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for > handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place > a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into > your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will > automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or > Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not > only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent > you with handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR > recognition command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear > the handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille > display. Please note that these new features offered by this improved > version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only > compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version > 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will > release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS > 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, > so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR > engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? > We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app > for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning > and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using > VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? > is going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that > you find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go > on a trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer > need sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you > knew it, or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to > a church service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or > group prayers easily and independently without requesting sighted > help. Even more fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom > door that appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little > sticky note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of > the classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious > study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class or > whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with that > instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it > out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you will be able to > find out what's wrong quickly, independently and immediately with the > built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the > Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. > So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for > your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The > power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't > hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at > support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your > feedback! > > > > > > Sincerely, > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:40:51 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:40:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific ReleasesNewand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2><46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> Message-ID: <71070780CE82496C8DBAF00BBC037059@BrandonsLaptop2> You know, what's sad is that I thought to myself: "Finally, why did it take them so long?" Then the thought entered my mind about all the other OCR programs being left in the dust... I take technology so for granted, that I just don't appreciate the new marvels that are released probably as much as I should. I'm still baffled about hand writing, don't most letters hand written look the same? I can't read hand writing, but most sighted people can... Perhaps if someone put in a location and some info about the person, it would make recognizing hand writing easier. For example, if the location was school and the person who wrote it was a teacher, words and letters would probably say lesson, class, assignment, read, write and words like love, John Wain, curtains, sox, run, float and stuff like that would put on a lower probability. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific ReleasesNewand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook what? So this isn't true? Just wondering ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. > Sincerely, > Hope Paulos > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello students, >> I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has >> happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with >> me to school now. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> >> Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> 650-833-9766 >> >> "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age >> 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> >> NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and >> are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged >> and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, >> you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or >> copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited >> and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). >> ________________________________________ >> From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> To: Sonja Biggs >> Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved >> OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> For Immediate Release: >> >> Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for >> JAWS and OpenBook >> >> Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and >> blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new >> breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind >> and visually impaired computer users. >> >> >> >> Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you >> can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be >> able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to >> read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those >> frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten >> material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you >> have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you >> are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout >> that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? >> >> >> >> Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> >> >> >> Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our >> users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> >> >> >> We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for >> both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes >> many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> >> >> >> * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of >> columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. >> * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such >> as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and >> not the scanner bed or camera. >> * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% >> accuracy! >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for >> handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a >> handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your >> camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically >> recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output >> from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You >> can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with >> handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition >> command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the >> handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. >> Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of >> the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with >> Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please >> note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the >> new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with >> the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on >> these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- >> and 64-bit operating systems. >> >> >> >> Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We >> have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for >> your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and >> reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using >> VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is >> going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you >> find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a >> trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need >> sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, >> or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church >> service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers >> easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more >> fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to >> have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your >> finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and >> not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out >> if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling >> conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an >> iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that >> little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong >> quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting >> recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! >> >> >> >> Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple >> iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. >> So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your >> iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of >> technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't >> hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >> support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your >> feedback! >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> >> P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 19:50:32 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:50:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific ReleasesNewand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2><46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com><19B211894631403E9151AD0D64448B5B@BrandonsLaptop2> <01a801cd651c$711f9fc0$535edf40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0E03559C27CF40E184EF961FFE9A27C4@Gloria> thanks I will check it out ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific ReleasesNewand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > Hi there. I might have an app for you as far as reading notes on the door > if > that's what you're wanting to do. Have you tried vizwiz? I've used this > application to read vending machines, hand-written notes, rx numbers, and > I > have even resolved computer problems with this application. It uses > web-workers to answer any question you may have about a particular object. > It's free, as well! Can't beat the price. I too am looking for an open > book > OCR solution for IOS devices. > Hope > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases > Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > I'm so sorry, I see that now, I never put P.S. after the name, so I only > read to the name... > I was going to say, Kurzweil will have a time with this. > *Sigh, back to asking non existent people what the note on the door says. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Hope Paulos > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases > Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. > Sincerely, > Hope Paulos > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello students, >> I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has >> happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad >> with me to school now. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> >> Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> 650-833-9766 >> >> "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, >> Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> >> NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private >> and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain >> privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the >> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, >> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the >> attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law > (HIPAA). >> ________________________________________ >> From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> To: Sonja Biggs >> Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> For Immediate Release: >> >> Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software >> for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading >> and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released >> a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for >> blind and visually impaired computer users. >> >> >> >> Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere >> you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to >> be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able >> to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of >> those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or >> handwritten material that you can't read in or out of a classroom >> setting and you have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read >> to you. Maybe you are at a conference, you are given a business card >> or a simple handout that is important, and you need to fill out or read > along? >> >> >> >> Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> >> >> >> Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from >> our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> >> >> >> We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine >> for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release >> includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> >> >> >> * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of >> columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. >> * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, >> such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print >> focus and not the scanner bed or camera. >> * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% >> accuracy! >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for >> handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place >> a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into >> your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will >> automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or >> Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not >> only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent >> you with handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR >> recognition command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear >> the handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille >> display. Please note that these new features offered by this improved >> version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only >> compatible with Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version >> 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will >> release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS >> 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones offered now, >> so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to the OCR >> engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. >> >> >> >> Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? >> We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app >> for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning >> and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using >> VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? >> is going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that >> you find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go >> on a trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer >> need sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you >> knew it, or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to >> a church service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or >> group prayers easily and independently without requesting sighted >> help. Even more fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom >> door that appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little >> sticky note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of >> the classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious >> study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class or >> whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with that >> instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it >> out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you will be able to >> find out what's wrong quickly, independently and immediately with the >> built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! > It's so easy! >> >> >> >> Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the >> Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any > budget. >> So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for >> your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The >> power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't >> hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >> support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your >> feedback! >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> >> P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmai >> l.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 20:19:14 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:19:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Freman year Message-ID: <50071a69.04f9640a.363e.ffffc220@mx.google.com> Hi Kattie my name is Roanna Baccchus. This is my second year in college. As lilly stated earlier eamail your professors ahead of time letting them know that you'll be in their classes. Inform them about how you'll be taking notes and doing writing assignments and about the technology you'll be using. Get accommodation letters from Disability Services before school begins. Have fun in college. Be yourself in and outside of class. If you have any questions feel free to email me any time at r. Bacchus 228 at g. mail dot com. From dwebster125 at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 22:58:55 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webser) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:58:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><78F4E17DFA3C4F9785B8EFDBB8DA438B@userPC> Message-ID: <7C19C6E3D16442E2B96F67A62CD68D15@ownerPC> yea we may not need the adaptive stuff but I think some of the stuff is kind of neat. I use to have this liquid indicator thing that I got from braille institute in la and you'd put this thing on the cup and it had two metal prongs and they went on the inside of the cup. when ever the cup was full it played you a nice little tune of it’s a small world. it helps with like pooring coffee or something. Now you know what else would be cool is if they had a talking coffee maker. that would be neat.----Original Message----- From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:19 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs they are quite expensive, so I recommend that you get a rehab counselor to pay if you need to and can't afford the price as most people can't. On 7/18/12, Rania Ismail CMT wrote: > I have two of them but I don't use them. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:51 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't > think we need. > They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without > problems, and I don't have the machine. > I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my > understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and > probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, > its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. 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Thank you, and have a great day! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.net From dwebster125 at comcast.net Wed Jul 18 23:12:44 2012 From: dwebster125 at comcast.net (Dave Webser) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:12:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Education of the general public was Re: Freshman year In-Reply-To: References: <5005f838.c98fec0a.51e8.0d0e@mx.google.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120717180859.01be9d10@comcast.net><6887FEF51D3B490FBC0DA326A68F1EE1@OwnerPC><7.0.1.0.2.20120717222645.01ce8468@comcast.net><90D7EC51-83AF-4D8E-A665-C2B0F063735C@gmail.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120718052212.01dd7108@comcast.net> Message-ID: Actually the nfb straight cane is the exact same material as a fishing pole. so in actuallity you could just put a hook and line on let's say an old cane and probably use it as a fishing pole if you wanted. it’s the exact same material.-----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:20 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Education of the general public was Re: Freshman year Hello, I was not resenting the fact that my cane was referred to as a fishing pole. I don't believe I mentioned my resentment of this in my last post and was merely telling a story, following the direction of the thread, that described an occurrence where my cane was referred to as something rather humorous. I truly believe in the education of the general public about my blindness and the tools that naturally accompany said blindness, for if we do not educate the public, how can their attitude change? Now, let me give you a little background to this situation. My grandfather, a big supporter of everything I do, was the one who referred to my cane as a fishing pole. Even though my grandfather has known and interacted with me for 18years, going on 19 now, I still took the opportunity to educate him about the differences between this new NFB cane and my old graphite one, which, to him, did not appear to be anything other than a cane. I would advise you to be careful about making accusations such as this one before you have more than three sentences of a story that give you no background into the person's attitudes or beliefs. I am not trying to sound angry, but I did take slight offencs to your question. Best, Aleeha On Jul 18, 2012, at 8:26 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Aleeha, > > Are there educating opportunities underlying somewhere, to grow resentful > over people's misidentification of your cane? We are by virtue of > interacting with a sighted majority, ambassadors of blindness. educating > does not always get to unfold on our own, terms. It's still education > nonetheless? /2012, Aleeha Dudley wrote: >> I have been told that my cane looked like a fishing pole before. Now, >> having held and used a fishing pole before, I cannot imagine why someone >> might think this. >> >> Aleeha >> >> On Jul 18, 2012, at 3:10 AM, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >> >> > A ping pong paddle? That would be pretty impossible! I've been asked >> > why I was carrying a golf club around, but this is by far the funniest >> > story involving my cane that I can think of. >> > So I was walking down the street one day and this guy came up to me >> > and said, excuse me, ma'am, does your stick have magnets in it? >> > I just kind of looked at him like, what are you talking about? He >> > said, well, you have to be able to tell where the curb is somehow. >> > What that has anything to do with magnets, I have no clue. >> > >> > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> Some people choose to remain ignorant, even after I try to tell them. >> >> I can't stand those kinds of people! >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 7/18/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>> Hi, Josh, >> >>> >> >>> Don't you believe it more productive all around to dispell people's >> >>> ignorance, rather than getting up tight about it?At 09:59 PM >> >>> 7/17/2012, you wrote: >> >>>> LOL! >> >>>> It annoys me when someone calls my cane my "pole," "stick," etc. >> >>>> Here's a funny story, that actually happened at church! >> >>>> I had a straight cane, (not an NFB cane,) but a graphite cane. >> >>>> I had a roller tip on it, so one of the teenage boys who wasn't all >> >>>> there mentally asked this question about my cane. >> >>>> "What's that, a ping-pong paddle?" >> >>>> Good grief! >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 7/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >>>>> Hahahaha! I need to have them walk off with my cane! How do you >> >>>>> feel >> >>>>> having >> >>>>> >> >>>>> your stick touched? XD >> >>>>> Most of the time it happens while I'm going sighted guide with a >> >>>>> store >> >>>>> person, someone in the airport or something like that. >> >>>>> So I'm already holding their arm. I 'm fine if people grab my cane >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> bus, because they can excuse their grabbing as an accident, but >> >>>>> people >> >>>>> grabbing the cane to guide me is a no no! >> >>>>> I'm asked if the cane helps me get around and I say yes, it's like >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> eyes, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> so possibly people maybe think that my cane guides me. I have no >> >>>>> idea. >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> feel so horrible without my cane, I don't know how sighted people >> >>>>> stand >> >>>>> it... I don't know a comparison other than saying that they're >> >>>>> touching >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> stick, can they please get their hands off... >> >>>>> I once said that the guide was blinding me, but he didn't get it. >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:19 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon, >> >>>>> I just ask them not to grab my cane. I say I'd rather take their >> >>>>> arm. >> >>>>> If >> >>>>> they persist, it depends on my mood; I either again insist that >> >>>>> they >> >>>>> leave >> >>>>> the cane alone or I simply decline their assistance and walk off >> >>>>> elsewhere >> >>>>> and get someone else's help. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:37 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hello, >> >>>>> This will also happen, especially when you go shopping, but I >> >>>>> haven't >> >>>>> found >> >>>>> a way to prevent it. >> >>>>> When people want me to follow them, they grab my cane. Even when >> >>>>> I'm >> >>>>> holding >> >>>>> their arm, I often have people grab my cane when we're approaching >> >>>>> stairs. >> >>>>> I feel really offended and defensive when people touch my cane, and >> >>>>> it's >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> the top of my least favorite things. It is probably about as >> >>>>> offensive >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> me >> >>>>> as if someone randomly started touching me inappropriately on >> >>>>> purpose. >> >>>>> Has anyone figured out a way to keep people from touching our >> >>>>> canes? >> >>>>> Because >> >>>>> it's really an insult along with everything else. I can't cuss them >> >>>>> out, >> >>>>> because it wouldn't do good for the blindness image. I ask them >> >>>>> nicely >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> please not touch my cane and pull it out of their grip, but I still >> >>>>> feel >> >>>>> violated and some people will grab it again after I asked them not >> >>>>> to. >> >>>>> I feel this is one of the more cereous misconceptions about >> >>>>> blindness, >> >>>>> but >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> really have no idea how to prevent it. >> >>>>> If anyone has any idea, please let me know! >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:14 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >> >>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Evening, Katie, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Remember that most folks don't actually get to see blind people >> >>>>> functioning in person. By demonstrating what we are and yes, are >> >>>>> not >> >>>>> capable of is a great means of educating. Thus, I believe it pretty >> >>>>> counterproductive to get up tight about being stared at. As much as >> >>>>> people wrap about blindness being an "inconvenience" a truth is >> >>>>> that,, blindness remains an enigma to most and you could be >> >>>>> educating >> >>>>> the unsuspecting sighted person by means of not objecting to a >> >>>>> little staring wich, I remind is not at all intrusive. What do >> >>>>> people >> >>>>> think of this? >> >>>>> At 05:39 PM 7/17/2012, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> >>>>>> Katie, >> >>>>>> Having just finished my freshman year this past May, I can tell >> >>>>>> you >> >>>>>> that people are very accepting for the most part. Once you show >> >>>>>> people >> >>>>>> that you're just as capable as they are, your actions will speak >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> themselves. True, people will be watching you more than they would >> >>>>>> a >> >>>>>> person with sight. But you have to use that as a way to educate >> >>>>>> them. >> >>>>>> When people ask you questions on campus about how you do this or >> >>>>>> that, >> >>>>>> take it in stride. That's actually how I met my best friend: I was >> >>>>>> walking down campus going to a building and he came up and asked >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> how I knew where I was or something like that. We had a great >> >>>>>> conversation and things just rolled from there. Feel free to send >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> an e-mail off list if you have any questions as things come up. >> >>>>>> Patrick >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 7/17/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>>>>>> LOL! >> >>>>>>> That's a good one! >> >>>>>>> I also quote Fanny Crosby and tell them that one good thing about >> >>>>>>> blindness, is that I never have to see the clouds in the sky. >> >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>>>>>>> When people first find out about my blindness, I always point >> >>>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>>> that I will never have to pay a speeding ticket. I also joke >> >>>>>>>> that >> >>>>>>>> God short-changed me in the vision department, but I won't be >> >>>>>>>> asking for a refund any time soon. Haha. I find that if you act >> >>>>>>>> like it's no big deal, other people will feel that way too. >> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>>> From: Liliya Asadullina > >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:21:08 -0400 >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Freshman year >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> And I agree about adding in humour. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi Katie, >> >>>>>>>> My name is Lily and I am going to be a freshmen in college as >> >>>>>>>> well. I >> >>>>>>>> understand you have had bad experiences in high school, after >> >>>>>>>> telling >> >>>>>>>> people that you are blind. I have dealt with a few myself. As >> >>>>>>>> far as >> >>>>>>>> I have heard from some of my blind and sighted friends who are >> >>>>>>>> already >> >>>>>>>> in college, they say that people are more accepting in college. >> >>>>>>>> It's >> >>>>>>>> more of a time when people our age or around our age learn to >> >>>>>>>> grow up. >> >>>>>>>> Of course you will not meet all mature people, but just be >> >>>>>>>> yourself >> >>>>>>>> and tell them that you can't see. Express to them that even >> >>>>>>>> though >> >>>>>>>> you are blind, you can still accomplish as much as they can. >> >>>>>>>> Get >> >>>>>>>> involved with a few extra curricular activities and prove to >> >>>>>>>> them that >> >>>>>>>> you are an independent, and smart individual. The most you can >> >>>>>>>> do is >> >>>>>>>> educate them about blindness and be outspoken. You will have to >> >>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>> out of your comfort level, but I am sure by the end of your 1st >> >>>>>>>> semester you wil have a good sullection of caring friends. >> >>>>>>>> Another thing, make sure you advicate for yourself in class and >> >>>>>>>> where >> >>>>>>>> ever you choose to go outside of the academic area. For >> >>>>>>>> example, I am >> >>>>>>>> emailing my professors ahead of time and letting them know that >> >>>>>>>> I am >> >>>>>>>> blind, but that I have the capability just like anyone else to >> >>>>>>>> get my >> >>>>>>>> work done and learn. I will explain to them how I will be >> >>>>>>>> taking >> >>>>>>>> notes in class and what kind of tecchnology I'll be bringing >> >>>>>>>> with me. >> >>>>>>>> I will be meeting with my professors a week before classes >> >>>>>>>> begin, and >> >>>>>>>> will be asking them if they have any questions for me. >> >>>>>>>> Outside of class, just reassure your peers if they have any >> >>>>>>>> questions >> >>>>>>>> for you about blindness to feel free to ask. >> >>>>>>>> Like I said, just be yourself and make the most out of your >> >>>>>>>> year. >> >>>>>>>> Be confident in you! You've got this! >> >>>>>>>> College is full of diversity and if someone does not accept you >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> who you are and because of your blindness or lack of some >> >>>>>>>> vision, then >> >>>>>>>> they aren't worth being friends with... >> >>>>>>>> People come to college from all different areas around the world >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>> each student has something unique about them. So just reach >> >>>>>>>> out to >> >>>>>>>> those around you and show them that no matter what, you can >> >>>>>>>> succeed. >> >>>>>>>> I understand what you are going through in your mind though. >> >>>>>>>> I am saying this to you, but at the same time I am nervous for >> >>>>>>>> college as >> >>>>>>>> well. >> >>>>>>>> Beeing that I had some blind skills training at the Colorado >> >>>>>>>> Center >> >>>>>>>> For The blind though, I do feel more confident about going to >> >>>>>>>> college >> >>>>>>>> and in myself too. >> >>>>>>>> Also, I am not as nervous to be dorming with a random room mate >> >>>>>>>> away >> >>>>>>>> from my home town and family. >> >>>>>>>> Good luck with starting this fall, I believe that you will do >> >>>>>>>> well! >> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to email me any >> >>>>>>>> time >> >>>>>>>> at: Lily2011a at gmail.com. >> >>>>>>>> Or my school email: lasadull at masonlive.GMU.edu >> >>>>>>>> Cheers! >> >>>>>>>> Liliya >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/12, Katie Cl wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi my name is Katie and I am going to be a freshman in college >> >>>>>>>> this fall. >> >>>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>>> was wondering how other people handled telling others they >> >>>>>>>> couldn't see. >> >>>>>>>> In >> >>>>>>>> high school I had a bad experience and don't want it to happen >> >>>>>>>> again. Any >> >>>>>>>> advice would be helpful. >> >>>>>>>> THANKS >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <3 Princess Cy-I <3 >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40g >> >>>>>>>> mail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info >> >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >>>>>>>> info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 19 00:35:17 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:35:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <7C19C6E3D16442E2B96F67A62CD68D15@ownerPC> References: <1342567145.91720.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><78F4E17DFA3C4F9785B8EFDBB8DA438B@userPC> <7C19C6E3D16442E2B96F67A62CD68D15@ownerPC> Message-ID: <3E9B780BEABD44F6BC0235A2FFD6CF6B@OwnerPC> Dave, that is what a say win is; a liquid level indicator is the same thing. THey are neat; as you said, some play songs. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Webser Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:58 PM To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs yea we may not need the adaptive stuff but I think some of the stuff is kind of neat. I use to have this liquid indicator thing that I got from braille institute in la and you'd put this thing on the cup and it had two metal prongs and they went on the inside of the cup. when ever the cup was full it played you a nice little tune of it’s a small world. it helps with like pooring coffee or something. Now you know what else would be cool is if they had a talking coffee maker. that would be neat.----Original Message----- From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:19 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs they are quite expensive, so I recommend that you get a rehab counselor to pay if you need to and can't afford the price as most people can't. On 7/18/12, Rania Ismail CMT wrote: > I have two of them but I don't use them. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:51 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > I believe we need the stuff, but the say-when is something I don't > think we need. > They trained me to use it, but I have poured things into cups without > problems, and I don't have the machine. > I wish I had one, but I can't afford it. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joshua, >> While NFB centers do not use all cooking adaptive technology, you make it >> sound like blind cooks do not need any of it. Not true. Its my > understanding >> >> from students of nfb centers, they do indeed have braille or raised marks >> on appliances. They also have some talking gadgets like a timer and > probably >> >> a thermometer. As for why do centers use adaptive technology versus not, > its >> >> an individual teaching style. Some believe we need more adaptive gadgets >> than we really do. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >> That's what's going on. >> Their independence training was a scam, as well. >> My friend told me that when she attended a center in her state, (not >> NFB affiliated,) she was taught to cook, without the diferent adaptive >> technology. >> When I was at WSB, the stove had Braille, they had a "Say-When," (a >> machine that you put on the cup, that beeps when the cup is full,) >> etc. >> If blind people can cook without that stuff, why then do they stress >> the need for such machines? >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> I suspect that certain students or staff at WSB are ACB members and >>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't have a particular >>> organizational position. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Thank you Dave for pointing out that the Little Rock chapter of the NFB >>>> meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, if according to you they >>>> try >>>> so >>>> hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why do they allow the NFB >>>> meet >>>> in >>>> their building and the local chapter of the ACB does not meet there? >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >>>>> I'm going to attend LCB, after >>>>> graduating from college. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >>>>> > >>>>> > Let' sleet her decide if she >>>>> would benefit from a complete training >>>>> > program or not. All three NFB centers have >>>>> employment-related assistance and >>>>> > >>>>> > offer training in several specific areas. Have you been >>>>> to an NFB center >>>>> > yourself? >>>>> > >>>>> > Peter Donahue >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > She has the skills to take care of herself. >>>>> > She needs job training. >>>>> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI program? >>>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>>> > >>>>> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> LWSB, formerly the Arkansas >>>>> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> checkered history concerning its treatment of the >>>>> blind persons it claims >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> serve. The conditions you describe have existed >>>>> there for many years. At >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> time it was accredited by the National >>>>> Accreditation Council for Agencies >>>>> >> Serving the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NAC.) >>>>> Its former blind >>>>> >> director was a key figure in NAC. NAC had a >>>>> reputation for condoning >>>>> >> practices that often led to blind persons being >>>>> abused, mistreated, and >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> the case of sheltered workshops being paid less >>>>> than the Federal minimum >>>>> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards of Accreditation" >>>>> failed to address >>>>> >> these >>>>> >> issues. For example the standards called for the >>>>> agency's grounds to be >>>>> >> pleasant but did not require the sheltered >>>>> workshops they accredited to >>>>> >> pay >>>>> >> all employees including the blind employees the >>>>> Federal minimum wage. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In 1985 NAC held its annual >>>>> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then Arkansas Enterprises >>>>> for the Blind and the >>>>> >> Arkansas School for the Blind were picketed by the >>>>> NFB. While at AEB a >>>>> >> number of AEB clients told us that there were >>>>> problems and that it needed >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be investigated. I know because Mary and I were on >>>>> that picket line. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Judging from what I've read >>>>> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >>>>> >> vestiges of its evil doings remain at agencies such >>>>> as LWSB. Amber here's >>>>> >> hoping you will eventually attend an NFB training >>>>> center. These centers >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> a big cut above anything else out there. All the >>>>> best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Peter Donahue >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber, >>>>> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I >>>>> commend your efforts in >>>>> >> sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did >>>>> a good job for >>>>> >> someone >>>>> >> who did not have a good experience. I've also >>>>> heard bad rumors about it. >>>>> >> Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised >>>>> that >>>>> >> LWSB continues to stay open and attracting the >>>>> clients it does. >>>>> >> Which program were you in? Independent living? or a >>>>> job program? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >>>>> bother me. You are in >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> training setting and with this litigious society, >>>>> they need to account >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need >>>>> to know where >>>>> >> everyone >>>>> >> is. People go missing everyday and are never found. >>>>> Youwouldn't want your >>>>> >> parents or friends or family calling and them >>>>> saying, oh, we do not know >>>>> >> where your son is; he may be on campus or >>>>> not. >>>>> >> The other thing about the no microwave or fridge >>>>> would bother me. As a >>>>> >> college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >> It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or >>>>> cold snack when I wanted >>>>> >> to. >>>>> >> Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was >>>>> definitely nice. >>>>> >> That seems early to me given the fact that I eat >>>>> late at home; between 7 >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> 8pm. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal >>>>> decision to leave. So I wish >>>>> >> you luck in your next decision to find decent >>>>> training or whatever you >>>>> >> need. >>>>> >> I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure >>>>> if you are a current >>>>> >> college student or recent grad. >>>>> >> If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as >>>>> it opens up more doors >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> you. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ashley >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM >>>>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list' >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on >>>>> Friday. Here is what >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> have experienced. I will do my best to give >>>>> only facts and not color >>>>> >> those >>>>> >> facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I >>>>> will clearly state that >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> you are asking for an opinion as to whether or not >>>>> one should attend this >>>>> >> program in order to obtain a job, I would have to >>>>> say no. But I am not >>>>> >> you >>>>> >> or anyone else for that matter, and what I have >>>>> experienced here has >>>>> >> colored >>>>> >> my opinion, and may not be very reliable. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The facts: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> *Several students (including myself) have had >>>>> valuables go missing. >>>>> >> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety >>>>> codes. (just one >>>>> >> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken >>>>> wings, and though the >>>>> >> outside was hot, the inside was not. I would >>>>> not mention this, except >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> is not an isolated incident.) >>>>> >> *The showers have light bulbs (not protected >>>>> by any kind of panels) >>>>> >> inside >>>>> >> the actual stall where water could be accidentally >>>>> splashed. I brought >>>>> >> this >>>>> >> up as a concern, so they put a cover over mine, but >>>>> mine is not the only >>>>> >> one >>>>> >> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other >>>>> clients.) >>>>> >> *Despite several complaints from many clients, the >>>>> building is full of >>>>> >> bugs. >>>>> >> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but >>>>> bugs were found even >>>>> >> in >>>>> >> my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do >>>>> not leave food in >>>>> >> uncealed containers or dishes with food still on >>>>> them etc.) >>>>> >> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or >>>>> refrigerators in their rooms, >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at >>>>> all except cafeteria >>>>> >> food. There are microwaves that physically >>>>> exist, but they do not work >>>>> >> very >>>>> >> well. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now I can say that there are other things I could >>>>> talk about, but they >>>>> >> probably come down to personal preference and >>>>> really are just normal >>>>> >> inconveniences that one would encounter on any >>>>> college dorm, except they >>>>> >> are >>>>> >> exaggerated because of the fact that everything is >>>>> scaled down hugely. >>>>> >> So >>>>> >> while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>>> could go to a dining >>>>> >> hall >>>>> >> at almost any time of day, if you do not come to >>>>> meals at the times >>>>> >> specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>>> that anyone can argue that >>>>> >> when >>>>> >> in school, you have to work with a particular >>>>> schedule, and while this is >>>>> >> true to some extent, I do take issue with the fact >>>>> that we can't even >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that we >>>>> may maintain the >>>>> >> schedules that are most comfortable for us. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may >>>>> not affect anyone, but >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I >>>>> would be doing a great >>>>> >> disservice to anyone considering attending this >>>>> center. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >>>>> authority figure. He was >>>>> >> picking me up from the airport, and I was >>>>> approaching the baggage claim >>>>> >> with >>>>> >> a female passenger from my flight. This >>>>> authority figure approached me >>>>> >> without announcing himself, put his arm around my >>>>> waist, hugged me to >>>>> >> himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>>> female passenger who >>>>> >> had >>>>> >> offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>>> control from there, but >>>>> >> thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>>> and said, "How was your trip, >>>>> >> Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>>>> you're home!" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This man did not announce himself to me in the >>>>> beginning, should have >>>>> >> been >>>>> >> treating me professionally, is old enough to be my >>>>> father, and possibly >>>>> >> even >>>>> >> my grandfather, has only interacted with me >>>>> minimally since my arrival at >>>>> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >>>>> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >>>>> >> what >>>>> >> one would call professional or even acceptable >>>>> regardless of setting. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; >>>>> only you can decide that >>>>> >> for yourself. What I can tell you is that the >>>>> man who did this to me was >>>>> >> reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been >>>>> reported multiple times >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> other females that he has violated in one way or >>>>> another, and still holds >>>>> >> >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> job here. I believe there is something big >>>>> going on here that I am >>>>> >> unaware >>>>> >> of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but >>>>> regardless of that, I >>>>> >> could >>>>> >> never suggest that someone attend here. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope this helps you make your decision. If >>>>> it does not, please know >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> I wish you all the best. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Amber R. Herrin >>>>> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>>> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>>> >> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>>> >> Impossible is not a word >>>>> >> It's just a reason >>>>> >> For someone not to try >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Everybody's scared to death >>>>> >> When they decide to take that step >>>>> >> Out on the water >>>>> >> It'll be alright >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Life is so much more >>>>> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>>> >> You will find your way >>>>> >> If you keep believing" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >> Behalf >>>>> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Ian, >>>>> >> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used >>>>> to go there on to >>>>> >> stay >>>>> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can >>>>> say is that LWSB has >>>>> >> made >>>>> >> alot of changes last couple of years and I would >>>>> think about visiting >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> before deciding one way or the other. They do have >>>>> an option to live off >>>>> >> campus and as far as I am aware that there is not a >>>>> sign in and sign out >>>>> >> policy after class time. Now they may have >>>>> sign in and sign out policy >>>>> >> during class time to keep count of attendance, >>>>> however, this is know >>>>> >> different signing in and signing out of work which >>>>> everyone blind and >>>>> >> sighted has to do. >>>>> >> The IRS program is one of the best programs there >>>>> and frankly since you >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, >>>>> it is a guarantied >>>>> >> employment after completing the program and they >>>>> start at 45,000 or more. >>>>> >> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said >>>>> above LWSB now known as >>>>> >> World Services for the Blind has made alot of >>>>> changes under the new >>>>> >> director >>>>> >> and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. >>>>> As I said earlier, I >>>>> >> would make a visit there before making any kind of >>>>> decision. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anmol >>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>>>> make me sad. Perhaps >>>>> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it >>>>> is vague, like a >>>>> >> breeze >>>>> >> among flowers. >>>>> >> Hellen Keller >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >>>>> Training Programs >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> >>>>> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> >>> Hi >>>>> >>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended >>>>> LWSB for one of their >>>>> >>> employment training programs, or LWSB in >>>>> general? >>>>> >>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and >>>>> was reading the manual, >>>>> >>> and it seems like a very strict and structured >>>>> environment, even >>>>> >>> though most of the participants are adults. For >>>>> instance, you have to >>>>> >>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things >>>>> like that. Have any of >>>>> >>> you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your >>>>> experiences were. Since >>>>> >>> I've been to college, it sounds like it's >>>>> not as independent of an >>>>> >>> environment. >>>>> >>> Ian >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >>>>> >>> oo.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p > ccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk. The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. 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Thank you, and have a great day! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 01:11:01 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342660261.36115.YahooMailClassic@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I stand corrected. But still 30,000 starting with opportunity to clime up for just 6 months of training sounds like a pretty good deal. Its better then living on SSDI. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 11:18 PM > Hello, > > The starting wage for one of these IRS positions in some > states might > be 45 K, but most of the time it's closer to 30k or there > abouts of > course depending on how much experience one comes in with. > They come > in as a GS5 and climb the ladder from there. > > Thanks. > > On 7/18/12, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > I agree. > > These senters should also have the NFB philosophy. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> As I see it, the job training at this center is > probably its only > >> strong point. You have to remember, though, that > most people are going > >> to live on campus unless they have family or > friends in Arkansas that > >> they can stay with, so they can commute every day. > If not, what are > >> they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate > it in 6 months? I > >> don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible > leases aren't that > >> easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the > center is as badly > >> run as it is. I considered going there myself for > the computer > >> networking certification, but changed my mind after > hearing stories > >> very similar to the opinions that have been > expressed here. As I said, > >> it's definitely a shame that this is the only > center that has such a > >> good track record with placing the blind in > profitable employment. > >> Other centers should exist for this purpose as > well. For one place to > >> carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering > how high the > >> unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how > much farther along we > >> would get if even several states had a center of > this nature. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >>> Anmol, > >>> excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS > program. Also, the entrance > >>> requirements were on the website and I hope > they still are. > >>> You have to have good technology skills as well > as decent educational > >>> skills > >>> to get in. Since you will work for the > government, they require you to > >>> be > >>> a > >>> US citizen, able to  pass a drug test, and > be willing to relocate. They > >>> also > >>> find you a job after your training. I was at a > job fair and know who I > >>> ran > >>> into? > >>> An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job > into that agency, going to > >>> WSB > >>> was a good idea. He said they get students from > there all the time and > >>> that > >>> the next class containing 30 students was > starting soon. > >>> > >>> If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh > the pros and cons. Also, > >>> I > >>> can definitely see why rehab would send clients > there; they gaurantee a > >>> job > >>> afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing > because more successful case > >>> closures mean they keep the funding they have. > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment Training Programs > >>> > >>> Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not > belong to any > >>> organization. > >>> They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had > a table at the exhabit > >>> hall > >>> at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of > WSB to the extend that some > >>> on > >>> this list might think I am, however, I do not > like reading some of the > >>> comments I read on here from people who do not > necessarly know all the > >>> facts. > >>> The things Amber has mentioned are valid and > credible because she is > >>> there > >>> now. If I were considering attending WSB, I > would seriously take into > >>> consideration the things she mentioned. > However, WSB does have an > >>> employment > >>> track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to > send clients to a > >>> training > >>> center which can lead to employment like the > WSB rather than an > >>> independent > >>> living training center like the NFB training > centers that do a good job > >>> in > >>> providing independent living training, but do > not lead to employment. I > >>> personally understand the value of how > independent living training is > >>> important in being successful in employment and > most rehab counselors do > >>> as > >>> well, but we have to justify how we are > spending the tax payer money to > >>> largely ignorent sighted society who do not > necessarly see the value of > >>> independent training for a blind person. > >>> To answer the question, the IRS is a promising > job that pays the > >>> starting > >>> salarry of $45,000 I think with growth > opportunity. So you have to > >>> decide > >>> if > >>> you want to put up with some of the things > mentioned: bad food, unclean > >>> building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good > job after that. > >>> Anmol > >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they > never make me sad. Perhaps > >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but > it is vague, like a > >>> breeze > >>> among flowers. > >>> Hellen Keller > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment Training Programs > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > >>>> > >>>> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > >>>> I suspect that certain students or > >>>> staff at WSB are ACB members and > >>>> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself > doesn't have a > >>>> particular > >>>> organizational position. > >>>> Arielle > >>>> > >>>> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that > the Little Rock > >>>> chapter of the NFB > >>>> > meets at World Services for the Blind. > Josh, if > >>>> according to you they try so > >>>> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, > then why do they > >>>> allow the NFB meet in > >>>> > their building and the local chapter > of the ACB does > >>>> not meet there? > >>>> > > >>>> > Anmol > >>>> > I seldom think about my limitations, > and they never > >>>> make me sad. Perhaps > >>>> > there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it is > >>>> vague, like a breeze > >>>> > among flowers. > >>>> > Hellen Keller > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> >> From: Joshua Lester > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock Employment > >>>> Training Programs > >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >>>> list" > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, > 12:25 PM > >>>> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >>>> >> graduating from college. > >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >> > >>>> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >>>> >> wrote: > >>>> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> >     Let' > sleet her decide if she > >>>> >> would benefit from a complete > training > >>>> >> > program or not. All three NFB > centers have > >>>> >> employment-related assistance and > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > offer training in several > specific areas. Have > >>>> you been > >>>> >> to an NFB center > >>>> >> > yourself? > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > Peter Donahue > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>> >> > To: "National Association of > Blind Students > >>>> mailing > >>>> >> list" > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 > 11:01 AM > >>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB > Little Rock > >>>> Employment > >>>> >> Training Programs > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > She has the skills to take > care of herself. > >>>> >> > She needs job training. > >>>> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI > program? > >>>> >> > Thanks, Joshua > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > > >>>> >> wrote: > >>>> >> >> Good morning everyone, > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >>  >    LWSB, formerly the Arkansas > >>>> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had > a long > >>>> >> >> and > >>>> >> >> checkered history > concerning its treatment > >>>> of the > >>>> >> blind persons it claims > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> to > >>>> >> >> serve. The conditions you > describe have > >>>> existed > >>>> >> there for many years. At > >>>> >> >> one > >>>> >> >> time it was accredited by > the National > >>>> >> Accreditation Council for > Agencies > >>>> >> >> Serving the Blind and > Physically > >>>> Handicapped (NAC.) > >>>> >> Its former blind > >>>> >> >> director was a key figure > in NAC. NAC had > >>>> a > >>>> >> reputation for condoning > >>>> >> >> practices that often led > to blind persons > >>>> being > >>>> >> abused, mistreated, and > >>>> >> >> in > >>>> >> >> the case of sheltered > workshops being paid > >>>> less > >>>> >> than the Federal minimum > >>>> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called > "Standards of > >>>> Accreditation" > >>>> >> failed to address > >>>> >> >> these > >>>> >> >> issues. For example the > standards called > >>>> for the > >>>> >> agency's grounds to be > >>>> >> >> pleasant but did not > require the > >>>> sheltered > >>>> >> workshops they accredited to > >>>> >> >> pay > >>>> >> >> all employees including > the blind > >>>> employees the > >>>> >> Federal minimum wage. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >>  >    In 1985 NAC held its annual > >>>> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB > was > >>>> >> >> there > >>>> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the > then Arkansas > >>>> Enterprises > >>>> >> for the Blind and the > >>>> >> >> Arkansas School for the > Blind were > >>>> picketed by the > >>>> >> NFB. While at AEB a > >>>> >> >> number of AEB clients > told us that there > >>>> were > >>>> >> problems and that it needed > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> to > >>>> >> >> be investigated. I know > because Mary and I > >>>> were on > >>>> >> that picket line. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >>  >    Judging from what I've read > >>>> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone > but > >>>> >> >> vestiges of its evil > doings remain at > >>>> agencies such > >>>> >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >>>> >> >> hoping you will > eventually attend an NFB > >>>> training > >>>> >> center. These centers > >>>> >> >> are > >>>> >> >> a big cut above anything > else out there. > >>>> All the > >>>> >> best. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Peter Donahue > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > > >>>> >> >> To: "National Association > of Blind > >>>> Students mailing > >>>> >> list" > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, > 2012 11:33 PM > >>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little Rock > >>>> Employment > >>>> >> Training Programs > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Amber, > >>>> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd > have to say first > >>>> that I > >>>> >> commend your efforts in > >>>> >> >> sticking to the facts or > trying to. I > >>>> think you did > >>>> >> a good job for > >>>> >> >> someone > >>>> >> >> who did not have a good > experience.  I've > >>>> also > >>>> >> heard bad rumors about it. > >>>> >> >> Second, with all this > publicity, I'm real > >>>> surprised > >>>> >> that > >>>> >> >> LWSB continues to stay > open and attracting > >>>> the > >>>> >> clients it does. > >>>> >> >> Which program were you > in? Independent > >>>> living? or a > >>>> >> job program? > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> About rules, personally > signing in and out > >>>> doesn't > >>>> >> bother me. You are in > >>>> >> >> a > >>>> >> >> training setting and with > this litigious > >>>> society, > >>>> >> they need to account > >>>> >> >> for > >>>> >> >> everyone. What if there > was an emergency? > >>>> They need > >>>> >> to know where > >>>> >> >> everyone > >>>> >> >> is. People go missing > everyday and are > >>>> never found. > >>>> >> Youwouldn't want your > >>>> >> >> parents or friends or > family calling and > >>>> them > >>>> >> saying, oh, we do not know > >>>> >> >> where your son is;  > he may be on campus > >>>> or > >>>> >> not. > >>>> >> >> The other thing about the > no microwave or > >>>> fridge > >>>> >> would bother me. As a > >>>> >> >> college student, I > enjoyed having my own > >>>> fridge in > >>>> >> my room. > >>>> >> >> It gave me some freedom > to have a cold > >>>> drink or > >>>> >> cold snack when I wanted > >>>> >> >> to. > >>>> >> >> Since the cafeteria > closed early at 7:30, > >>>> this was > >>>> >> definitely nice. > >>>> >> >> That seems early to me > given the fact that > >>>> I eat > >>>> >> late at home; between 7 > >>>> >> >> and > >>>> >> >> 8pm. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are > making a good > >>>> personal > >>>> >> decision to leave. So I wish > >>>> >> >> you luck in your next > decision to find > >>>> decent > >>>> >> training or whatever you > >>>> >> >> need. > >>>> >> >> I don't remember your > intro to us, so I'm > >>>> not sure > >>>> >> if you are a current > >>>> >> >> college student or recent > grad. > >>>> >> >> If you haven't finished > school, I hope you > >>>> can as > >>>> >> it opens up more doors > >>>> >> >> to > >>>> >> >> you. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Ashley > >>>> >> >> -----Original > Message----- > >>>> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, > 2012 10:36 PM > >>>> >> >> To: 'National Association > of Blind > >>>> Students mailing > >>>> >> list' > >>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little Rock > >>>> Employment > >>>> >> Training Programs > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Ian, > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> I am currently at WSB, > but am planning to > >>>> leave on > >>>> >> Friday.  Here is what > >>>> >> >> I > >>>> >> >> have experienced.  I > will do my best to > >>>> give > >>>> >> only facts and not color > >>>> >> >> those > >>>> >> >> facts with my opinion, > though before I > >>>> begin, I > >>>> >> will clearly state that > >>>> >> >> if > >>>> >> >> you are asking for an > opinion as to > >>>> whether or not > >>>> >> one should attend this > >>>> >> >> program in order to > obtain a job, I would > >>>> have to > >>>> >> say no.  But I am not > >>>> >> >> you > >>>> >> >> or anyone else for that > matter, and what I > >>>> have > >>>> >> experienced here has > >>>> >> >> colored > >>>> >> >> my opinion, and may not > be very reliable. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> The facts: > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> *Several students > (including myself) have > >>>> had > >>>> >> valuables go missing. > >>>> >> >> *The food does not seem > to meet health and > >>>> safety > >>>> >> codes. (just one > >>>> >> >> example-there are > many-one evening we had > >>>> chicken > >>>> >> wings, and though the > >>>> >> >> outside was hot, the > inside was not.  I > >>>> would > >>>> >> not mention this, except > >>>> >> >> this > >>>> >> >> is not an isolated > incident.) > >>>> >> >> *The showers have light > bulbs  (not > >>>> protected > >>>> >> by any kind of panels) > >>>> >> >> inside > >>>> >> >> the actual stall where > water could be > >>>> accidentally > >>>> >> splashed.  I brought > >>>> >> >> this > >>>> >> >> up as a concern, so they > put a cover over > >>>> mine, but > >>>> >> mine is not the only > >>>> >> >> one > >>>> >> >> that this is the case > with (as confirmed > >>>> by other > >>>> >> clients.) > >>>> >> >> *Despite several > complaints from many > >>>> clients, the > >>>> >> building is full of > >>>> >> >> bugs. > >>>> >> >> They say that someone > comes regularly to > >>>> spray, but > >>>> >> bugs were found even > >>>> >> >> in > >>>> >> >> my room, and I am a very > clean person. > >>>> (read as, do > >>>> >> not leave food in > >>>> >> >> uncealed containers or > dishes with food > >>>> still on > >>>> >> them etc.) > >>>> >> >> *Clients are unable to > have microwaves or > >>>> >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >>>> >> >> and > >>>> >> >> so are reduced to coolers > full of ice or > >>>> nothing at > >>>> >> all except cafeteria > >>>> >> >> food.  There are > microwaves that > >>>> physically > >>>> >> exist, but they do not work > >>>> >> >> very > >>>> >> >> well. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Now I can say that there > are other things > >>>> I could > >>>> >> talk about, but they > >>>> >> >> probably come down to > personal preference > >>>> and > >>>> >> really are just normal > >>>> >> >> inconveniences that one > would encounter on > >>>> any > >>>> >> college dorm, except they > >>>> >> >> are > >>>> >> >> exaggerated because of > the fact that > >>>> everything is > >>>> >> scaled down hugely. > >>>> >> >> So > >>>> >> >> while, for example, on > most college > >>>> campuses, you > >>>> >> could go to a dining > >>>> >> >> hall > >>>> >> >> at almost any time of > day, if you do not > >>>> come to > >>>> >> meals at the times > >>>> >> >> specified, you don't eat > meals.  I am > >>>> sure > >>>> >> that anyone can argue that > >>>> >> >> when > >>>> >> >> in school, you have to > work with a > >>>> particular > >>>> >> schedule, and while this is > >>>> >> >> true to some extent, I do > take issue with > >>>> the fact > >>>> >> that we can't even > >>>> >> >> have > >>>> >> >> microwaves or > refrigerators in our rooms > >>>> so that we > >>>> >> may maintain the > >>>> >> >> schedules that are most > comfortable for > >>>> us. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> The last thing I mention > is a large thing > >>>> and may > >>>> >> not affect anyone, but > >>>> >> >> I > >>>> >> >> feel I must mention it, > because if I did > >>>> not, I > >>>> >> would be doing a great > >>>> >> >> disservice to anyone > considering attending > >>>> this > >>>> >> center. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Two weeks ago this > Friday, I was groped by > >>>> an > >>>> >> authority figure.  He was > >>>> >> >> picking me up from the > airport, and I was > >>>> >> approaching the baggage claim > >>>> >> >> with > >>>> >> >> a female passenger from > my flight.  This > >>>> >> authority figure approached me > >>>> >> >> without announcing > himself, put his arm > >>>> around my > >>>> >> waist, hugged me to > >>>> >> >> himself in a tight, > possessive manner, and > >>>> told the > >>>> >> female passenger who > >>>> >> >> had > >>>> >> >> offered to walk with me > that he "had it > >>>> under > >>>> >> control from there, but > >>>> >> >> thanks."  After > which, he looked down at > >>>> me > >>>> >> and said, "How was your trip, > >>>> >> >> Punkin?  We've > missed you!  We're so > >>>> glad > >>>> >> you're home!" > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> This man did not announce > himself to me in > >>>> the > >>>> >> beginning, should have > >>>> >> >> been > >>>> >> >> treating me > professionally, is old enough > >>>> to be my > >>>> >> father, and possibly > >>>> >> >> even > >>>> >> >> my grandfather, has only > interacted with > >>>> me > >>>> >> minimally since my arrival at > >>>> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc > etc etc. > >>>> Basically, > >>>> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >>>> >> >> what > >>>> >> >> one would call > professional or even > >>>> acceptable > >>>> >> regardless of setting. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> I cannot tell you whether > to attend this > >>>> center; > >>>> >> only you can decide that > >>>> >> >> for yourself.  What > I can tell you is > >>>> that the > >>>> >> man who did this to me was > >>>> >> >> reported by me, and, I > have discovered, > >>>> has been > >>>> >> reported multiple times > >>>> >> >> by > >>>> >> >> other females that he has > violated in one > >>>> way or > >>>> >> another, and still holds > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> a > >>>> >> >> job here.  I believe > there is something > >>>> big > >>>> >> going on here that I am > >>>> >> >> unaware > >>>> >> >> of, and am only glad to > be leaving. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> I have met some truly > wonderful people > >>>> here, but > >>>> >> regardless of that, I > >>>> >> >> could > >>>> >> >> never suggest that > someone attend here. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> I hope this helps you > make your > >>>> decision.  If > >>>> >> it does not, please know > >>>> >> >> that > >>>> >> >> I wish you all the best. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >>>> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >>>> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >>>> >> >> "It doesn't matter what > you've heard > >>>> >> >> Impossible is not a word > >>>> >> >> It's just a reason > >>>> >> >> For someone not to try > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Everybody's scared to > death > >>>> >> >> When they decide to take > that step > >>>> >> >> Out on the water > >>>> >> >> It'll be alright > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Life is so much more > >>>> >> >> Than what your eyes are > seeing > >>>> >> >> You will find your way > >>>> >> >> If you keep believing" > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> -----Original > Message----- > >>>> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> >> On > >>>> >> >> Behalf > >>>> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, > 2012 4:49 PM > >>>> >> >> To: National Association > of Blind Students > >>>> mailing > >>>> >> list > >>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little Rock > >>>> Employment > >>>> >> Training Programs > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Ian, > >>>> >> >> I have never attended > LWSB as a trainny, > >>>> but I used > >>>> >> to go there on to > >>>> >> >> stay > >>>> >> >> during weekends in the > 1990s. The only > >>>> thing I can > >>>> >> say is that LWSB has > >>>> >> >> made > >>>> >> >> alot of changes last > couple of years and I > >>>> would > >>>> >> think about visiting > >>>> >> >> there > >>>> >> >> before deciding one way > or the other. They > >>>> do have > >>>> >> an option to live off > >>>> >> >> campus and as far as I am > aware that there > >>>> is not a > >>>> >> sign in and sign out > >>>> >> >> policy  after class > time. Now they may > >>>> have > >>>> >> sign in and sign out policy > >>>> >> >> during class time to keep > count of > >>>> attendance, > >>>> >> however, this is know > >>>> >> >> different signing in and > signing out of > >>>> work which > >>>> >> everyone blind and > >>>> >> >> sighted has to do. > >>>> >> >> The IRS program is one of > the best > >>>> programs there > >>>> >> and frankly since you > >>>> >> >> have > >>>> >> >> to be excepted for a job > at one of the IRS > >>>> offices, > >>>> >> it is a guarantied > >>>> >> >> employment after > completing the program > >>>> and they > >>>> >> start at 45,000 or more. > >>>> >> >> The food was not the > greatest, however, as > >>>> I said > >>>> >> above LWSB now known as > >>>> >> >> World Services for the > Blind has made alot > >>>> of > >>>> >> changes under the new > >>>> >> >> director > >>>> >> >> and frankly I can not > tell you how the > >>>> food is now. > >>>> >> As I said earlier, I > >>>> >> >> would make a visit there > before making any > >>>> kind of > >>>> >> decision. > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> Anmol > >>>> >> >> I seldom think about my > limitations, and > >>>> they never > >>>> >> make me sad. Perhaps > >>>> >> >> there is just a touch of > yearning at > >>>> times; but it > >>>> >> is vague, like a > >>>> >> >> breeze > >>>> >> >> among flowers. > >>>> >> >> Hellen Keller > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian > Perrault > >>>> >> wrote: > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > > >>>> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little Rock > >>>> Employment > >>>> >> Training Programs > >>>> >> >>> To: "National > Association of Blind > >>>> Students" > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>> Date: Monday, July > 16, 2012, 4:14 PM > >>>> >> >>> Hi > >>>> >> >>> I’m wondering if > any of you have > >>>> attended > >>>> >> LWSB for one of their > >>>> >> >>> employment training > programs, or LWSB > >>>> in > >>>> >> general? > >>>> >> >>> I’m looking into > one of the IRS > >>>> programs, and > >>>> >> was reading the manual, > >>>> >> >>> and it seems like a > very strict and > >>>> structured > >>>> >> environment, even > >>>> >> >>> though most of the > participants are > >>>> adults. For > >>>> >> instance, you have to > >>>> >> >>> sign out if you want > to go somewhere > >>>> and things > >>>> >> like that. Have any of > >>>> >> >>> you attended LWSB? > I’d love to hear > >>>> what your > >>>> >> experiences were. Since > >>>> >> >>> I’ve been to > college, it sounds like > >>>> it’s > >>>> >> not as independent of an > >>>> >> >>> environment. > >>>> >> >>> Ian > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get > >>>> >> your account info for > >>>> >> >>> nabs-l: > >>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >>>> >> >>> oo.com > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list options > >>>> or get > >>>> >> your account info for > >>>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list options > >>>> or get > >>>> >> your account info for > >>>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list options > >>>> or get > >>>> >> your account info for > >>>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list options > >>>> or get > >>>> >> your account info for > >>>> >> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your > list options or > >>>> get your > >>>> >> account info for > >>>> >> > nabs-l: > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your > list options or > >>>> get your > >>>> >> account info for > >>>> >> > nabs-l: > >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get > >>>> your account > >>>> >> info for nabs-l: > >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your > >>>> account info for > >>>> > nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account > >>>> info for nabs-l: > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it > contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable > resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish > to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it > was > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended > recipient, > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of > this > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or > its contents > by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in > civil or > criminal action. I have checked this email and all > corresponding > attachments for security threats. However, security of your > machine is > up to you. Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible > operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for > windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest > technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call > me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. > Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 19 01:33:44 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:33:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: You can tell it is a hoax because of how poorly it is written. FS can write a much better press release! Dave At 01:55 PM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. >Sincerely, >Hope Paulos > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > > Hello students, > > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this > has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my > Ipad with me to school now. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New > and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > > 650-833-9766 > > > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith > Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are > private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may > contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not > the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or > the attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the > Federal Law (HIPAA). > > ________________________________________ > > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > > To: Sonja Biggs > > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and > Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > For Immediate Release: > > > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition > Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen > reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed > and released a new breakthrough in its line of products of > assistive technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. > > > > > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times > anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you > always wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece > of paper and be able to read it instantly just like anybody else? > Or maybe you are one of those frustrated students that are > inundated with printed or handwritten material that you can't read > in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even hours or > days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, > you are given a business card or a simple handout that is > important, and you need to fill out or read along? > > > > > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests > from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition > engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new > release includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better > recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be > confusing to read. > > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print > paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better > print focus and not the scanner bed or camera. > > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% accuracy! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for > handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or > place a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a > door, into your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? > will automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech > and / or Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille > display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image > that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on your > computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later > only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to > you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new > features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for > JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook > versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note > users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the > new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, > with the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left > out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work > with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development > team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading > solution app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our > popular scanning and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad > or iPod Touch, using VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, > that's right, OpenBook? is going mobile, and you will be able to > take it anywhere you go that you find printed material that you > cannot read. You will be able to go on a trip, be given an airport > boarding pass, and you will no longer need sighted assistance to > see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, or to see your > flight information. You will be able to go to a church service and > be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers easily > and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more > fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that > appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky > note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of the > classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious > study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class > or whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with > that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you > will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you > will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently and > immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR > engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the > Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit > any budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook > Mobile? app for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future > shine today! The power of technology and handwriting is in your > hands, like never before! > > > > > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, > don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at > support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and > your feedback! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > From n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 01:37:53 2012 From: n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com (Shreyas N Reddy) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:07:53 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] hi! regarding google map, google earth & vikki mapia Message-ID: hi all hope all r fine Please may I know that whether r v restricted to only look at the text or can v get any idea of google maps & google earth & there is some thing called as the vikki mapia or something. Where v can see the proper location v want. So, is there any accessibility for us? if so, please let me know ha? if not also, at least, for layman person, can v show the location. For instance, my father is sighted & v r planning to go some where out where I have no idea of that place. So, I can show him that this is so & so place. So, at least can v do that? Please experts help me with this & I wanted to mark my house residence on google map or something Please throw more light on this members -- in regards Shreyas Nagaraj Reddy From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 19 01:38:13 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:38:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <005301cd64f2$170502c0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu> <97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> <005301cd64f2$170502c0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: ATI is a for-profit company -- so there is a charge. Dave At 09:31 AM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >Access Technology Institute Amber is this free >of charge, or is their a fee? RJ ----- Original >Message ----- From: "Herrin, Amber R." > To: "'National Association >of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 >9:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >Employment Training Programs > Ashley, > > I >attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here >for the assistive > technology instructor >program offered. I have found, since I have >decided > to leave, a much better option that I >would recommend to anyone looking > for any kind >of certification for assistive technology. > > >Access Technology Institute is an online school >that offers an 11 month > course in assistive >technology. > > As to them staying open: I think >it is because a lot of the people who > come >here do come for the IRS program, which does, if >you are accepted > into the program after >interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. > >Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in >a way that they can > gather and present to >anyone who would do anything. > > I spoke to the >C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically >sit through > my reports of conditions, he was >not really listening, as evidenced by the > lie >that my state counselor caught him in. > > >Basically, he told her on a particular day that >something had been taken > care of, though it >was not taken care of for another two >days. This was > not discovered, of course, >until after the fact whenever I mentioned it >in > passing while on the phone with her, but >the point is that he didn't say > that he would >check to be sure it had been taken care of, or >that he had > sent out requests for it to be >taken care of, but he assured her that it > >absolutely had already, past tense, been taken >care of. > > Obviously, it was a lie, since it >wasn't taken care of until two days > later, but >anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe >things change > here because not enough people >at one time makes a big enough deal about > the >problems. One or two people complain, they >leave, they choose not to > come back, it all >gets swept under the rug. > > Wash, rinse, >repeat. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI >Student in Training 2012 > World Services for >the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: >herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > >Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what >you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's >just a reason > For someone not to try > > >Everybody's scared to death > When they decide >to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be >alright > > Life is so much more > Than what >your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > >If you keep believing" > > > -----Original >Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 >11:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind >Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >LWSB Little Rock Employment Training >Programs > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd >have to say first that I commend your efforts >in > sticking to the facts or trying to. I think >you did a good job for someone > who did not >have a good experience. I've also heard bad >rumors about it. > Second, with all this >publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB >continues to > stay open and attracting the >clients it does. > Which program were you in? >Independent living? or a job program? > > About >rules, personally signing in and out doesn't >bother me. You are in a > training setting and >with this litigious society, they need to >account for > everyone. What if there was an >emergency? They need to know where everyone > >is. People go missing everyday and are never >found. Youwouldn't want your > parents or >friends or family calling and them saying, oh, >we do not know > where your son is; he may be >on campus or not. > The other thing about the no >microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > >college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge >in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a >cold drink or cold snack when I wanted > to. > >Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this >was definitely nice. > That seems early to me >given the fact that I eat late at home; between >7 > and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a >good personal decision to leave. So I wish > you >luck in your next decision to find decent >training or whatever you > need. > I don't >remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if >you are a current > college student or recent >grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope >you can as it opens up more doors > to you. > > >Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: >Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 >10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind >Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >LWSB Little Rock Employment Training >Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but >am planning to leave on Friday. Here is what >I > have experienced. I will do my best to give >only facts and not color > those facts with my >opinion, though before I begin, I will clearly >state > that if you are asking for an opinion as >to whether or not one should > attend this >program in order to obtain a job, I would have >to say no. But > I am not you or anyone else >for that matter, and what I have experienced > >here has colored my opinion, and may not be very >reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students >(including myself) have had valuables go >missing. > *The food does not seem to meet >health and safety codes. (just one > >example-there are many-one evening we had >chicken wings, and though the > outside was hot, >the inside was not. I would not mention this, >except > this is not an isolated incident.) *The >showers have light bulbs (not > protected by >any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >where water could > be accidentally splashed. I >brought this up as a concern, so they put a > >cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >that this is the case with > (as confirmed by >other clients.) *Despite several complaints from >many > clients, the building is full of bugs. > >They say that someone comes regularly to spray, >but bugs were found even > in my room, and I am >a very clean person. (read as, do not leave food >in > uncealed containers or dishes with food >still on them etc.) *Clients are > unable to >have microwaves or refrigerators in their rooms, >and so are > reduced to coolers full of ice or >nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There >are microwaves that physically exist, but they >do not work very > well. > > Now I can say that >there are other things I could talk about, but >they > probably come down to personal preference >and really are just normal > inconveniences that >one would encounter on any college dorm, except >they > are exaggerated because of the fact that >everything is scaled down hugely. > So while, >for example, on most college campuses, you could >go to a dining > hall at almost any time of day, >if you do not come to meals at the times > >specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that >anyone can argue that when > in school, you have >to work with a particular schedule, and while >this is > true to some extent, I do take issue >with the fact that we can't even have > >microwaves or refrigerators in our rooms so that >we may maintain the > schedules that are most >comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention >is a large thing and may not affect anyone, but >I > feel I must mention it, because if I did >not, I would be doing a great > disservice to >anyone considering attending this center. > > >Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an >authority figure. He was > picking me up from >the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >claim > with a female passenger from my >flight. This authority figure approached > me >without announcing himself, put his arm around >my waist, hugged me to > himself in a tight, >possessive manner, and told the female passenger >who > had offered to walk with me that he "had >it under control from there, but > >thanks." After which, he looked down at me and >said, "How was your trip, > Punkin? We've >missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > >This man did not announce himself to me in the >beginning, should have been > treating me >professionally, is old enough to be my father, >and possibly > even my grandfather, has only >interacted with me minimally since my > arrival >at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, >it was wayyy > wayyyy beyond what one would call >professional or even acceptable > regardless of >setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend >this center; only you can decide that > for >yourself. What I can tell you is that the man >who did this to me was > reported by me, and, I >have discovered, has been reported multiple >times > by other females that he has violated in >one way or another, and still > holds a job >here. I believe there is something big going on >here that I > am unaware of, and am only glad to >be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful >people here, but regardless of that, I > could >never suggest that someone attend here. > > I >hope this helps you make your decision. If it >does not, please know > that I wish you all the >best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) >593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It >doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is >not a word > It's just a reason > For someone >not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > >When they decide to take that step > Out on the >water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much >more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will >find your way > If you keep believing" > > > >-----Original Message----- > From: >nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 >4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind >Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >LWSB Little Rock Employment Training >Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB >as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >stay > during weekends in the 1990s. The only >thing I can say is that LWSB has > made alot of >changes last couple of years and I would think >about visiting > there before deciding one way >or the other. They do have an option to live > >off campus and as far as I am aware that there >is not a sign in and sign > out policy after >class time. Now they may have sign in and sign >out > policy during class time to keep count of >attendance, however, this is > know different >signing in and signing out of work which >everyone blind and > sighted has to do. > The >IRS program is one of the best programs there >and frankly since you > have to be excepted for >a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > >guarantied employment after completing the >program and they start at > 45,000 or more. > >The food was not the greatest, however, as I >said above LWSB now known as > World Services >for the Blind has made alot of changes under the >new > director and frankly I can not tell you >how the food is now. As I said > earlier, I >would make a visit there before making any kind >of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my >limitations, and they never make me sad. >Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at >times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among >flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, >7/16/12, Ian Perrault >wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault > >> Subject: [nabs-l] >LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> >To: "National Association of Blind Students" > >> Date: Monday, July 16, >2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of >you have attended LWSB for one of their >> >employment training programs, or LWSB in >general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS >programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it >seems like a very strict and structured >environment, even >> though most of the >participants are adults. For instance, you have >to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and >things like that. Have any of >> you attended >LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences >were. Since >> I’ve been to college, it sounds >like it’s not as independent of an >> environment. >> Ian >> From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 01:42:05 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:42:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2><46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6A52E8312BB64964B6F9887EAB3ECD05@BrandonsLaptop2> Has FS ever given out press releases? I've never seen one and I've had Jaws for at least 8 years! (Goodness I feel old...) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook You can tell it is a hoax because of how poorly it is written. FS can write a much better press release! Dave At 01:55 PM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. >Sincerely, >Hope Paulos > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > > Hello students, > > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this > has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad > with me to school now. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New > and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > > 650-833-9766 > > > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith > Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are > private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, > distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is > strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). > > ________________________________________ > > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > > To: Sonja Biggs > > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and > Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > For Immediate Release: > > > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition > Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen > reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and > released a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive > technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. > > > > > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times > anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always > wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be > able to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of > those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten > material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have > to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a > conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout that is > important, and you need to fill out or read along? > > > > > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests > from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition > engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release > includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better > recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be > confusing to read. > > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print > paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print > focus and not the scanner bed or camera. > > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% > > accuracy! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for > handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a > handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your > camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically > recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output > from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can > open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting > over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS > 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken > out to you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new > features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or > OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook versions later than > 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than > 13.0, we will release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released > with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones > offered now, so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to > the OCR engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development > team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution > app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning > and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using > VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is > going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you > find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a > trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need > sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, > or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church > service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers > easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more > fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to > have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your > finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not > have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if > the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict > that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod > Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky > note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently > and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR > engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the > Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any > budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app > for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The > power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! > > > > > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, > don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at > support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your > feedback! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 01:51:16 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342662676.96471.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Desiree, I could be wrong about this since I have not been there for a while and the things I know about World Services is what I have heard from my friends, but as I understand World Services has contract with an apartment complex near the center that their clients can rent and I think state may pay for it instead of paying for room and board while they are going through their training. Again I could be wrong, but Amber or someone who has been their recently. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > From: Desiree Oudinot > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 11:05 PM > Hi all, > As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its > only > strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people > are going > to live on campus unless they have family or friends in > Arkansas that > they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, > what are > they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 > months? I > don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases > aren't that > easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is > as badly > run as it is. I considered going there myself for the > computer > networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing > stories > very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. > As I said, > it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that > has such a > good track record with placing the blind in profitable > employment. > Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one > place to > carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high > the > unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther > along we > would get if even several states had a center of this > nature. > > On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > > Anmol, > > excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, > the entrance > > requirements were on the website and I hope they still > are. > > You have to have good technology skills as well as > decent educational skills > > to get in. Since you will work for the government, they > require you to be a > > US citizen, able to  pass a drug test, and be > willing to relocate. They also > > find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair > and know who I ran > > into? > > An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that > agency, going to WSB > > was a good idea. He said they get students from there > all the time and that > > the next class containing 30 students was starting > soon. > > > > If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros > and cons. Also, I > > can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; > they gaurantee a job > > afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because > more successful case > > closures mean they keep the funding they have. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anmol Bhatia > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > > > > Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong > to any organization. > > They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table > at the exhabit hall > > at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the > extend that some on > > this list might think I am, however, I do not like > reading some of the > > comments I read on here from people who do not > necessarly know all the > > facts. > > The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible > because she is there > > now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would > seriously take into > > consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB > does have an employment > > track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send > clients to a training > > center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather > than an independent > > living training center like the NFB training centers > that do a good job in > > providing independent living training, but do not lead > to employment. I > > personally understand the value of how independent > living training is > > important in being successful in employment and most > rehab counselors do as > > well, but we have to justify how we are spending the > tax payer money to > > largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly > see the value of > > independent training for a blind person. > > To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that > pays the starting > > salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So > you have to decide if > > you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: > bad food, unclean > > building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job > after that. > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > > > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > >> > >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > >> I suspect that certain students or > >> staff at WSB are ACB members and > >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't > have a > >> particular > >> organizational position. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > >> wrote: > >> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the > Little Rock > >> chapter of the NFB > >> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, > if > >> according to you they try so > >> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why > do they > >> allow the NFB meet in > >> > their building and the local chapter of the > ACB does > >> not meet there? > >> > > >> > Anmol > >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they > never > >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; > but it is > >> vague, like a breeze > >> > among flowers. > >> > Hellen Keller > >> > > >> > > >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> From: Joshua Lester > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list" > >> >> > >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM > >> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >> >> graduating from college. > >> >> Blessings, Joshua > >> >> > >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >> >> > > >> >> >     Let' sleet > her decide if she > >> >> would benefit from a complete training > >> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers > have > >> >> employment-related assistance and > >> >> > > >> >> > offer training in several specific > areas. Have > >> you been > >> >> to an NFB center > >> >> > yourself? > >> >> > > >> >> > Peter Donahue > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind > Students > >> mailing > >> >> list" > >> >> > > >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 > AM > >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock > >> Employment > >> >> Training Programs > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > She has the skills to take care of > herself. > >> >> > She needs job training. > >> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI > program? > >> >> > Thanks, Joshua > >> >> > > >> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> Good morning everyone, > >> >> >> > >> >> >>     LWSB, > formerly the Arkansas > >> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> checkered history concerning its > treatment > >> of the > >> >> blind persons it claims > >> >> >> > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> serve. The conditions you > describe have > >> existed > >> >> there for many years. At > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> time it was accredited by the > National > >> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies > >> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically > >> Handicapped (NAC.) > >> >> Its former blind > >> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. > NAC had > >> a > >> >> reputation for condoning > >> >> >> practices that often led to blind > persons > >> being > >> >> abused, mistreated, and > >> >> >> in > >> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops > being paid > >> less > >> >> than the Federal minimum > >> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards > of > >> Accreditation" > >> >> failed to address > >> >> >> these > >> >> >> issues. For example the standards > called > >> for the > >> >> agency's grounds to be > >> >> >> pleasant but did not require the > >> sheltered > >> >> workshops they accredited to > >> >> >> pay > >> >> >> all employees including the > blind > >> employees the > >> >> Federal minimum wage. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>     In 1985 > NAC held its annual > >> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was > >> >> >> there > >> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then > Arkansas > >> Enterprises > >> >> for the Blind and the > >> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind > were > >> picketed by the > >> >> NFB. While at AEB a > >> >> >> number of AEB clients told us > that there > >> were > >> >> problems and that it needed > >> >> >> > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> be investigated. I know because > Mary and I > >> were on > >> >> that picket line. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>     Judging > from what I've read > >> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but > >> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings > remain at > >> agencies such > >> >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend > an NFB > >> training > >> >> center. These centers > >> >> >> are > >> >> >> a big cut above anything else out > there. > >> All the > >> >> best. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Peter Donahue > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >> >> >> To: "National Association of > Blind > >> Students mailing > >> >> list" > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 > PM > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock > >> Employment > >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Amber, > >> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to > say first > >> that I > >> >> commend your efforts in > >> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying > to. I > >> think you did > >> >> a good job for > >> >> >> someone > >> >> >> who did not have a good > experience.  I've > >> also > >> >> heard bad rumors about it. > >> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, > I'm real > >> surprised > >> >> that > >> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and > attracting > >> the > >> >> clients it does. > >> >> >> Which program were you in? > Independent > >> living? or a > >> >> job program? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> About rules, personally signing > in and out > >> doesn't > >> >> bother me. You are in > >> >> >> a > >> >> >> training setting and with this > litigious > >> society, > >> >> they need to account > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> everyone. What if there was an > emergency? > >> They need > >> >> to know where > >> >> >> everyone > >> >> >> is. People go missing everyday > and are > >> never found. > >> >> Youwouldn't want your > >> >> >> parents or friends or family > calling and > >> them > >> >> saying, oh, we do not know > >> >> >> where your son is;  he may > be on campus > >> or > >> >> not. > >> >> >> The other thing about the no > microwave or > >> fridge > >> >> would bother me. As a > >> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having > my own > >> fridge in > >> >> my room. > >> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a > cold > >> drink or > >> >> cold snack when I wanted > >> >> >> to. > >> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early > at 7:30, > >> this was > >> >> definitely nice. > >> >> >> That seems early to me given the > fact that > >> I eat > >> >> late at home; between 7 > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> 8pm. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a > good > >> personal > >> >> decision to leave. So I wish > >> >> >> you luck in your next decision to > find > >> decent > >> >> training or whatever you > >> >> >> need. > >> >> >> I don't remember your intro to > us, so I'm > >> not sure > >> >> if you are a current > >> >> >> college student or recent grad. > >> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I > hope you > >> can as > >> >> it opens up more doors > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> you. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Ashley > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 > PM > >> >> >> To: 'National Association of > Blind > >> Students mailing > >> >> list' > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock > >> Employment > >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Ian, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am > planning to > >> leave on > >> >> Friday.  Here is what > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> have experienced.  I will do > my best to > >> give > >> >> only facts and not color > >> >> >> those > >> >> >> facts with my opinion, though > before I > >> begin, I > >> >> will clearly state that > >> >> >> if > >> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as > to > >> whether or not > >> >> one should attend this > >> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, > I would > >> have to > >> >> say no.  But I am not > >> >> >> you > >> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, > and what I > >> have > >> >> experienced here has > >> >> >> colored > >> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very > reliable. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The facts: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> *Several students (including > myself) have > >> had > >> >> valuables go missing. > >> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet > health and > >> safety > >> >> codes. (just one > >> >> >> example-there are many-one > evening we had > >> chicken > >> >> wings, and though the > >> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was > not.  I > >> would > >> >> not mention this, except > >> >> >> this > >> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) > >> >> >> *The showers have light > bulbs  (not > >> protected > >> >> by any kind of panels) > >> >> >> inside > >> >> >> the actual stall where water > could be > >> accidentally > >> >> splashed.  I brought > >> >> >> this > >> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a > cover over > >> mine, but > >> >> mine is not the only > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> that this is the case with (as > confirmed > >> by other > >> >> clients.) > >> >> >> *Despite several complaints from > many > >> clients, the > >> >> building is full of > >> >> >> bugs. > >> >> >> They say that someone comes > regularly to > >> spray, but > >> >> bugs were found even > >> >> >> in > >> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean > person. > >> (read as, do > >> >> not leave food in > >> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes > with food > >> still on > >> >> them etc.) > >> >> >> *Clients are unable to have > microwaves or > >> >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of > ice or > >> nothing at > >> >> all except cafeteria > >> >> >> food.  There are microwaves > that > >> physically > >> >> exist, but they do not work > >> >> >> very > >> >> >> well. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Now I can say that there are > other things > >> I could > >> >> talk about, but they > >> >> >> probably come down to personal > preference > >> and > >> >> really are just normal > >> >> >> inconveniences that one would > encounter on > >> any > >> >> college dorm, except they > >> >> >> are > >> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact > that > >> everything is > >> >> scaled down hugely. > >> >> >> So > >> >> >> while, for example, on most > college > >> campuses, you > >> >> could go to a dining > >> >> >> hall > >> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you > do not > >> come to > >> >> meals at the times > >> >> >> specified, you don't eat > meals.  I am > >> sure > >> >> that anyone can argue that > >> >> >> when > >> >> >> in school, you have to work with > a > >> particular > >> >> schedule, and while this is > >> >> >> true to some extent, I do take > issue with > >> the fact > >> >> that we can't even > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in > our rooms > >> so that we > >> >> may maintain the > >> >> >> schedules that are most > comfortable for > >> us. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a > large thing > >> and may > >> >> not affect anyone, but > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> feel I must mention it, because > if I did > >> not, I > >> >> would be doing a great > >> >> >> disservice to anyone considering > attending > >> this > >> >> center. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was > groped by > >> an > >> >> authority figure.  He was > >> >> >> picking me up from the airport, > and I was > >> >> approaching the baggage claim > >> >> >> with > >> >> >> a female passenger from my > flight.  This > >> >> authority figure approached me > >> >> >> without announcing himself, put > his arm > >> around my > >> >> waist, hugged me to > >> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive > manner, and > >> told the > >> >> female passenger who > >> >> >> had > >> >> >> offered to walk with me that he > "had it > >> under > >> >> control from there, but > >> >> >> thanks."  After which, he > looked down at > >> me > >> >> and said, "How was your trip, > >> >> >> Punkin?  We've missed > you!  We're so > >> glad > >> >> you're home!" > >> >> >> > >> >> >> This man did not announce himself > to me in > >> the > >> >> beginning, should have > >> >> >> been > >> >> >> treating me professionally, is > old enough > >> to be my > >> >> father, and possibly > >> >> >> even > >> >> >> my grandfather, has only > interacted with > >> me > >> >> minimally since my arrival at > >> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. > >> Basically, > >> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> >> >> what > >> >> >> one would call professional or > even > >> acceptable > >> >> regardless of setting. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to > attend this > >> center; > >> >> only you can decide that > >> >> >> for yourself.  What I can > tell you is > >> that the > >> >> man who did this to me was > >> >> >> reported by me, and, I have > discovered, > >> has been > >> >> reported multiple times > >> >> >> by > >> >> >> other females that he has > violated in one > >> way or > >> >> another, and still holds > >> >> >> > >> >> >> a > >> >> >> job here.  I believe there > is something > >> big > >> >> going on here that I am > >> >> >> unaware > >> >> >> of, and am only glad to be > leaving. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful > people > >> here, but > >> >> regardless of that, I > >> >> >> could > >> >> >> never suggest that someone attend > here. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your > >> decision.  If > >> >> it does not, please know > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> I wish you all the best. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've > heard > >> >> >> Impossible is not a word > >> >> >> It's just a reason > >> >> >> For someone not to try > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death > >> >> >> When they decide to take that > step > >> >> >> Out on the water > >> >> >> It'll be alright > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Life is so much more > >> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing > >> >> >> You will find your way > >> >> >> If you keep believing" > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> >> On > >> >> >> Behalf > >> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 > PM > >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind > Students > >> mailing > >> >> list > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock > >> Employment > >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Ian, > >> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a > trainny, > >> but I used > >> >> to go there on to > >> >> >> stay > >> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The > only > >> thing I can > >> >> say is that LWSB has > >> >> >> made > >> >> >> alot of changes last couple of > years and I > >> would > >> >> think about visiting > >> >> >> there > >> >> >> before deciding one way or the > other. They > >> do have > >> >> an option to live off > >> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware > that there > >> is not a > >> >> sign in and sign out > >> >> >> policy  after class time. > Now they may > >> have > >> >> sign in and sign out policy > >> >> >> during class time to keep count > of > >> attendance, > >> >> however, this is know > >> >> >> different signing in and signing > out of > >> work which > >> >> everyone blind and > >> >> >> sighted has to do. > >> >> >> The IRS program is one of the > best > >> programs there > >> >> and frankly since you > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one > of the IRS > >> offices, > >> >> it is a guarantied > >> >> >> employment after completing the > program > >> and they > >> >> start at 45,000 or more. > >> >> >> The food was not the greatest, > however, as > >> I said > >> >> above LWSB now known as > >> >> >> World Services for the Blind has > made alot > >> of > >> >> changes under the new > >> >> >> director > >> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you > how the > >> food is now. > >> >> As I said earlier, I > >> >> >> would make a visit there before > making any > >> kind of > >> >> decision. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Anmol > >> >> >> I seldom think about my > limitations, and > >> they never > >> >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning > at > >> times; but it > >> >> is vague, like a > >> >> >> breeze > >> >> >> among flowers. > >> >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > >> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock > >> Employment > >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >>> To: "National Association of > Blind > >> Students" > >> >> > >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, > 4:14 PM > >> >> >>> Hi > >> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you > have > >> attended > >> >> LWSB for one of their > >> >> >>> employment training programs, > or LWSB > >> in > >> >> general? > >> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the > IRS > >> programs, and > >> >> was reading the manual, > >> >> >>> and it seems like a very > strict and > >> structured > >> >> environment, even > >> >> >>> though most of the > participants are > >> adults. For > >> >> instance, you have to > >> >> >>> sign out if you want to go > somewhere > >> and things > >> >> like that. Have any of > >> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love > to hear > >> what your > >> >> experiences were. Since > >> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it > sounds like > >> it’s > >> >> not as independent of an > >> >> >>> environment. > >> >> >>> Ian > >> >> >>> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your > list > >> options or get > >> >> your account info for > >> >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >> >> >>> oo.com > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list > options > >> or get > >> >> your account info for > >> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> 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> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account > >> >> info for nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 02:00:59 2012 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:00:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <1342662676.96471.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1342662676.96471.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, They got rid of those apartments for rent as of last August, and they now have everyone living on campus. Thanks. On 7/18/12, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Desiree, > I could be wrong about this since I have not been there for a while and the > things I know about World Services is what I have heard from my friends, but > as I understand World Services has contract with an apartment complex near > the center that their clients can rent and I think state may pay for it > instead of paying for room and board while they are going through their > training. Again I could be wrong, but Amber or someone who has been their > recently. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 11:05 PM >> Hi all, >> As I see it, the job training at this center is probably its >> only >> strong point. You have to remember, though, that most people >> are going >> to live on campus unless they have family or friends in >> Arkansas that >> they can stay with, so they can commute every day. If not, >> what are >> they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate it in 6 >> months? I >> don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible leases >> aren't that >> easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the center is >> as badly >> run as it is. I considered going there myself for the >> computer >> networking certification, but changed my mind after hearing >> stories >> very similar to the opinions that have been expressed here. >> As I said, >> it's definitely a shame that this is the only center that >> has such a >> good track record with placing the blind in profitable >> employment. >> Other centers should exist for this purpose as well. For one >> place to >> carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering how high >> the >> unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how much farther >> along we >> would get if even several states had a center of this >> nature. >> >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett >> wrote: >> > Anmol, >> > excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS program. Also, >> the entrance >> > requirements were on the website and I hope they still >> are. >> > You have to have good technology skills as well as >> decent educational skills >> > to get in. Since you will work for the government, they >> require you to be a >> > US citizen, able to  pass a drug test, and be >> willing to relocate. They also >> > find you a job after your training. I was at a job fair >> and know who I ran >> > into? >> > An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job into that >> agency, going to WSB >> > was a good idea. He said they get students from there >> all the time and that >> > the next class containing 30 students was starting >> soon. >> > >> > If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh the pros >> and cons. Also, I >> > can definitely see why rehab would send clients there; >> they gaurantee a job >> > afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing because >> more successful case >> > closures mean they keep the funding they have. >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Anmol Bhatia >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> > >> > Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not belong >> to any organization. >> > They try to remain neutral and WSB actually had a table >> at the exhabit hall >> > at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of WSB to the >> extend that some on >> > this list might think I am, however, I do not like >> reading some of the >> > comments I read on here from people who do not >> necessarly know all the >> > facts. >> > The things Amber has mentioned are valid and credible >> because she is there >> > now. If I were considering attending WSB, I would >> seriously take into >> > consideration the things she mentioned. However, WSB >> does have an employment >> > track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to send >> clients to a training >> > center which can lead to employment like the WSB rather >> than an independent >> > living training center like the NFB training centers >> that do a good job in >> > providing independent living training, but do not lead >> to employment. I >> > personally understand the value of how independent >> living training is >> > important in being successful in employment and most >> rehab counselors do as >> > well, but we have to justify how we are spending the >> tax payer money to >> > largely ignorent sighted society who do not necessarly >> see the value of >> > independent training for a blind person. >> > To answer the question, the IRS is a promising job that >> pays the starting >> > salarry of $45,000 I think with growth opportunity. So >> you have to decide if >> > you want to put up with some of the things mentioned: >> bad food, unclean >> > building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a good job >> after that. >> > Anmol >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is >> vague, like a breeze >> > among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment >> Training Programs >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM >> >> I suspect that certain students or >> >> staff at WSB are ACB members and >> >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself doesn't >> have a >> >> particular >> >> organizational position. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia >> >> wrote: >> >> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that the >> Little Rock >> >> chapter of the NFB >> >> > meets at World Services for the Blind. Josh, >> if >> >> according to you they try so >> >> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, then why >> do they >> >> allow the NFB meet in >> >> > their building and the local chapter of the >> ACB does >> >> not meet there? >> >> > >> >> > Anmol >> >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they >> never >> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; >> but it is >> >> vague, like a breeze >> >> > among flowers. >> >> > Hellen Keller >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock >> Employment >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >> list" >> >> >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 12:25 PM >> >> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after >> >> >> graduating from college. >> >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, >> >> >> > >> >> >> >     Let' sleet >> her decide if she >> >> >> would benefit from a complete training >> >> >> > program or not. All three NFB centers >> have >> >> >> employment-related assistance and >> >> >> > >> >> >> > offer training in several specific >> areas. Have >> >> you been >> >> >> to an NFB center >> >> >> > yourself? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Peter Donahue >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >> >> > To: "National Association of Blind >> Students >> >> mailing >> >> >> list" >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:01 >> AM >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little >> Rock >> >> Employment >> >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > She has the skills to take care of >> herself. >> >> >> > She needs job training. >> >> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored ATI >> program? >> >> >> > Thanks, Joshua >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Good morning everyone, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>     LWSB, >> formerly the Arkansas >> >> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had a long >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> checkered history concerning its >> treatment >> >> of the >> >> >> blind persons it claims >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> serve. The conditions you >> describe have >> >> existed >> >> >> there for many years. At >> >> >> >> one >> >> >> >> time it was accredited by the >> National >> >> >> Accreditation Council for Agencies >> >> >> >> Serving the Blind and Physically >> >> Handicapped (NAC.) >> >> >> Its former blind >> >> >> >> director was a key figure in NAC. >> NAC had >> >> a >> >> >> reputation for condoning >> >> >> >> practices that often led to blind >> persons >> >> being >> >> >> abused, mistreated, and >> >> >> >> in >> >> >> >> the case of sheltered workshops >> being paid >> >> less >> >> >> than the Federal minimum >> >> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called "Standards >> of >> >> Accreditation" >> >> >> failed to address >> >> >> >> these >> >> >> >> issues. For example the standards >> called >> >> for the >> >> >> agency's grounds to be >> >> >> >> pleasant but did not require the >> >> sheltered >> >> >> workshops they accredited to >> >> >> >> pay >> >> >> >> all employees including the >> blind >> >> employees the >> >> >> Federal minimum wage. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>     In 1985 >> NAC held its annual >> >> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB was >> >> >> >> there >> >> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both the then >> Arkansas >> >> Enterprises >> >> >> for the Blind and the >> >> >> >> Arkansas School for the Blind >> were >> >> picketed by the >> >> >> NFB. While at AEB a >> >> >> >> number of AEB clients told us >> that there >> >> were >> >> >> problems and that it needed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> be investigated. I know because >> Mary and I >> >> were on >> >> >> that picket line. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>     Judging >> from what I've read >> >> >> NAC for practical purposes is gone but >> >> >> >> vestiges of its evil doings >> remain at >> >> agencies such >> >> >> as LWSB. Amber here's >> >> >> >> hoping you will eventually attend >> an NFB >> >> training >> >> >> center. These centers >> >> >> >> are >> >> >> >> a big cut above anything else out >> there. >> >> All the >> >> >> best. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> >> >> >> To: "National Association of >> Blind >> >> Students mailing >> >> >> list" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:33 >> PM >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little >> Rock >> >> Employment >> >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber, >> >> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd have to >> say first >> >> that I >> >> >> commend your efforts in >> >> >> >> sticking to the facts or trying >> to. I >> >> think you did >> >> >> a good job for >> >> >> >> someone >> >> >> >> who did not have a good >> experience.  I've >> >> also >> >> >> heard bad rumors about it. >> >> >> >> Second, with all this publicity, >> I'm real >> >> surprised >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> LWSB continues to stay open and >> attracting >> >> the >> >> >> clients it does. >> >> >> >> Which program were you in? >> Independent >> >> living? or a >> >> >> job program? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> About rules, personally signing >> in and out >> >> doesn't >> >> >> bother me. You are in >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> >> training setting and with this >> litigious >> >> society, >> >> >> they need to account >> >> >> >> for >> >> >> >> everyone. What if there was an >> emergency? >> >> They need >> >> >> to know where >> >> >> >> everyone >> >> >> >> is. People go missing everyday >> and are >> >> never found. >> >> >> Youwouldn't want your >> >> >> >> parents or friends or family >> calling and >> >> them >> >> >> saying, oh, we do not know >> >> >> >> where your son is;  he may >> be on campus >> >> or >> >> >> not. >> >> >> >> The other thing about the no >> microwave or >> >> fridge >> >> >> would bother me. As a >> >> >> >> college student, I enjoyed having >> my own >> >> fridge in >> >> >> my room. >> >> >> >> It gave me some freedom to have a >> cold >> >> drink or >> >> >> cold snack when I wanted >> >> >> >> to. >> >> >> >> Since the cafeteria closed early >> at 7:30, >> >> this was >> >> >> definitely nice. >> >> >> >> That seems early to me given the >> fact that >> >> I eat >> >> >> late at home; between 7 >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> 8pm. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are making a >> good >> >> personal >> >> >> decision to leave. So I wish >> >> >> >> you luck in your next decision to >> find >> >> decent >> >> >> training or whatever you >> >> >> >> need. >> >> >> >> I don't remember your intro to >> us, so I'm >> >> not sure >> >> >> if you are a current >> >> >> >> college student or recent grad. >> >> >> >> If you haven't finished school, I >> hope you >> >> can as >> >> >> it opens up more doors >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> you. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 >> PM >> >> >> >> To: 'National Association of >> Blind >> >> Students mailing >> >> >> list' >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little >> Rock >> >> Employment >> >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, but am >> planning to >> >> leave on >> >> >> Friday.  Here is what >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> have experienced.  I will do >> my best to >> >> give >> >> >> only facts and not color >> >> >> >> those >> >> >> >> facts with my opinion, though >> before I >> >> begin, I >> >> >> will clearly state that >> >> >> >> if >> >> >> >> you are asking for an opinion as >> to >> >> whether or not >> >> >> one should attend this >> >> >> >> program in order to obtain a job, >> I would >> >> have to >> >> >> say no.  But I am not >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> >> or anyone else for that matter, >> and what I >> >> have >> >> >> experienced here has >> >> >> >> colored >> >> >> >> my opinion, and may not be very >> reliable. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The facts: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Several students (including >> myself) have >> >> had >> >> >> valuables go missing. >> >> >> >> *The food does not seem to meet >> health and >> >> safety >> >> >> codes. (just one >> >> >> >> example-there are many-one >> evening we had >> >> chicken >> >> >> wings, and though the >> >> >> >> outside was hot, the inside was >> not.  I >> >> would >> >> >> not mention this, except >> >> >> >> this >> >> >> >> is not an isolated incident.) >> >> >> >> *The showers have light >> bulbs  (not >> >> protected >> >> >> by any kind of panels) >> >> >> >> inside >> >> >> >> the actual stall where water >> could be >> >> accidentally >> >> >> splashed.  I brought >> >> >> >> this >> >> >> >> up as a concern, so they put a >> cover over >> >> mine, but >> >> >> mine is not the only >> >> >> >> one >> >> >> >> that this is the case with (as >> confirmed >> >> by other >> >> >> clients.) >> >> >> >> *Despite several complaints from >> many >> >> clients, the >> >> >> building is full of >> >> >> >> bugs. >> >> >> >> They say that someone comes >> regularly to >> >> spray, but >> >> >> bugs were found even >> >> >> >> in >> >> >> >> my room, and I am a very clean >> person. >> >> (read as, do >> >> >> not leave food in >> >> >> >> uncealed containers or dishes >> with food >> >> still on >> >> >> them etc.) >> >> >> >> *Clients are unable to have >> microwaves or >> >> >> refrigerators in their rooms, >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> so are reduced to coolers full of >> ice or >> >> nothing at >> >> >> all except cafeteria >> >> >> >> food.  There are microwaves >> that >> >> physically >> >> >> exist, but they do not work >> >> >> >> very >> >> >> >> well. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there are >> other things >> >> I could >> >> >> talk about, but they >> >> >> >> probably come down to personal >> preference >> >> and >> >> >> really are just normal >> >> >> >> inconveniences that one would >> encounter on >> >> any >> >> >> college dorm, except they >> >> >> >> are >> >> >> >> exaggerated because of the fact >> that >> >> everything is >> >> >> scaled down hugely. >> >> >> >> So >> >> >> >> while, for example, on most >> college >> >> campuses, you >> >> >> could go to a dining >> >> >> >> hall >> >> >> >> at almost any time of day, if you >> do not >> >> come to >> >> >> meals at the times >> >> >> >> specified, you don't eat >> meals.  I am >> >> sure >> >> >> that anyone can argue that >> >> >> >> when >> >> >> >> in school, you have to work with >> a >> >> particular >> >> >> schedule, and while this is >> >> >> >> true to some extent, I do take >> issue with >> >> the fact >> >> >> that we can't even >> >> >> >> have >> >> >> >> microwaves or refrigerators in >> our rooms >> >> so that we >> >> >> may maintain the >> >> >> >> schedules that are most >> comfortable for >> >> us. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention is a >> large thing >> >> and may >> >> >> not affect anyone, but >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> feel I must mention it, because >> if I did >> >> not, I >> >> >> would be doing a great >> >> >> >> disservice to anyone considering >> attending >> >> this >> >> >> center. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was >> groped by >> >> an >> >> >> authority figure.  He was >> >> >> >> picking me up from the airport, >> and I was >> >> >> approaching the baggage claim >> >> >> >> with >> >> >> >> a female passenger from my >> flight.  This >> >> >> authority figure approached me >> >> >> >> without announcing himself, put >> his arm >> >> around my >> >> >> waist, hugged me to >> >> >> >> himself in a tight, possessive >> manner, and >> >> told the >> >> >> female passenger who >> >> >> >> had >> >> >> >> offered to walk with me that he >> "had it >> >> under >> >> >> control from there, but >> >> >> >> thanks."  After which, he >> looked down at >> >> me >> >> >> and said, "How was your trip, >> >> >> >> Punkin?  We've missed >> you!  We're so >> >> glad >> >> >> you're home!" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This man did not announce himself >> to me in >> >> the >> >> >> beginning, should have >> >> >> >> been >> >> >> >> treating me professionally, is >> old enough >> >> to be my >> >> >> father, and possibly >> >> >> >> even >> >> >> >> my grandfather, has only >> interacted with >> >> me >> >> >> minimally since my arrival at >> >> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. >> >> Basically, >> >> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond >> >> >> >> what >> >> >> >> one would call professional or >> even >> >> acceptable >> >> >> regardless of setting. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you whether to >> attend this >> >> center; >> >> >> only you can decide that >> >> >> >> for yourself.  What I can >> tell you is >> >> that the >> >> >> man who did this to me was >> >> >> >> reported by me, and, I have >> discovered, >> >> has been >> >> >> reported multiple times >> >> >> >> by >> >> >> >> other females that he has >> violated in one >> >> way or >> >> >> another, and still holds >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> >> job here.  I believe there >> is something >> >> big >> >> >> going on here that I am >> >> >> >> unaware >> >> >> >> of, and am only glad to be >> leaving. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I have met some truly wonderful >> people >> >> here, but >> >> >> regardless of that, I >> >> >> >> could >> >> >> >> never suggest that someone attend >> here. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you make your >> >> decision.  If >> >> >> it does not, please know >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> I wish you all the best. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin >> >> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >> >> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >> >> >> >> "It doesn't matter what you've >> heard >> >> >> >> Impossible is not a word >> >> >> >> It's just a reason >> >> >> >> For someone not to try >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to death >> >> >> >> When they decide to take that >> step >> >> >> >> Out on the water >> >> >> >> It'll be alright >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Life is so much more >> >> >> >> Than what your eyes are seeing >> >> >> >> You will find your way >> >> >> >> If you keep believing" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> >> On >> >> >> >> Behalf >> >> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 >> PM >> >> >> >> To: National Association of Blind >> Students >> >> mailing >> >> >> list >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little >> Rock >> >> Employment >> >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ian, >> >> >> >> I have never attended LWSB as a >> trainny, >> >> but I used >> >> >> to go there on to >> >> >> >> stay >> >> >> >> during weekends in the 1990s. The >> only >> >> thing I can >> >> >> say is that LWSB has >> >> >> >> made >> >> >> >> alot of changes last couple of >> years and I >> >> would >> >> >> think about visiting >> >> >> >> there >> >> >> >> before deciding one way or the >> other. They >> >> do have >> >> >> an option to live off >> >> >> >> campus and as far as I am aware >> that there >> >> is not a >> >> >> sign in and sign out >> >> >> >> policy  after class time. >> Now they may >> >> have >> >> >> sign in and sign out policy >> >> >> >> during class time to keep count >> of >> >> attendance, >> >> >> however, this is know >> >> >> >> different signing in and signing >> out of >> >> work which >> >> >> everyone blind and >> >> >> >> sighted has to do. >> >> >> >> The IRS program is one of the >> best >> >> programs there >> >> >> and frankly since you >> >> >> >> have >> >> >> >> to be excepted for a job at one >> of the IRS >> >> offices, >> >> >> it is a guarantied >> >> >> >> employment after completing the >> program >> >> and they >> >> >> start at 45,000 or more. >> >> >> >> The food was not the greatest, >> however, as >> >> I said >> >> >> above LWSB now known as >> >> >> >> World Services for the Blind has >> made alot >> >> of >> >> >> changes under the new >> >> >> >> director >> >> >> >> and frankly I can not tell you >> how the >> >> food is now. >> >> >> As I said earlier, I >> >> >> >> would make a visit there before >> making any >> >> kind of >> >> >> decision. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> >> >> I seldom think about my >> limitations, and >> >> they never >> >> >> make me sad. Perhaps >> >> >> >> there is just a touch of yearning >> at >> >> times; but it >> >> >> is vague, like a >> >> >> >> breeze >> >> >> >> among flowers. >> >> >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault >> >> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little >> Rock >> >> Employment >> >> >> Training Programs >> >> >> >>> To: "National Association of >> Blind >> >> Students" >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, >> 4:14 PM >> >> >> >>> Hi >> >> >> >>> I’m wondering if any of you >> have >> >> attended >> >> >> LWSB for one of their >> >> >> >>> employment training programs, >> or LWSB >> >> in >> >> >> general? >> >> >> >>> I’m looking into one of the >> IRS >> >> programs, and >> >> >> was reading the manual, >> >> >> >>> and it seems like a very >> strict and >> >> structured >> >> >> environment, even >> >> >> >>> though most of the >> participants are >> >> adults. For >> >> >> instance, you have to >> >> >> >>> sign out if you want to go >> somewhere >> >> and things >> >> >> like that. Have any of >> >> >> >>> you attended LWSB? I’d love >> to hear >> >> what your >> >> >> experiences were. Since >> >> >> >>> I’ve been to college, it >> sounds like >> >> it’s >> >> >> not as independent of an >> >> >> >>> environment. >> >> >> >>> Ian >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list >> >> options or get >> >> >> your account info for >> >> >> >>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah >> >> >> >>> oo.com >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options >> >> or get >> >> >> your account info for >> >> >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > -- Cordially, Nimer Jaber Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains some information about the email you have just read and all attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and methods 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The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is up to you. Thanks. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/ Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more information about a free and accessible operating system, please click here: http://www.vinuxproject.org To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP and above, please click here: http://www.nvda-project.org You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: http://nimertech.blogspot.com To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720) (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank you, and have a great day! From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 02:12:07 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1342663927.64009.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Nimer, Thanks for telling me about this. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote: > From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 9:00 PM > Hello, > > They got rid of those apartments for rent as of last August, > and they > now have everyone living on campus. > > Thanks. > > On 7/18/12, Anmol Bhatia > wrote: > > Desiree, > > I could be wrong about this since I have not been there > for a while and the > > things I know about World Services is what I have heard > from my friends, but > > as I understand World Services has contract with an > apartment complex near > > the center that their clients can rent and I think > state may pay for it > > instead of paying for room and board while they are > going through their > > training. Again I could be wrong, but Amber or someone > who has been their > > recently. > > > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > > > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment > Training Programs > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > >> > >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 11:05 PM > >> Hi all, > >> As I see it, the job training at this center is > probably its > >> only > >> strong point. You have to remember, though, that > most people > >> are going > >> to live on campus unless they have family or > friends in > >> Arkansas that > >> they can stay with, so they can commute every day. > If not, > >> what are > >> they going to do, find an apartment, only to vacate > it in 6 > >> months? I > >> don't think so, it doesn't work that way. flexible > leases > >> aren't that > >> easy to come by. So honestly, its a shame that the > center is > >> as badly > >> run as it is. I considered going there myself for > the > >> computer > >> networking certification, but changed my mind after > hearing > >> stories > >> very similar to the opinions that have been > expressed here. > >> As I said, > >> it's definitely a shame that this is the only > center that > >> has such a > >> good track record with placing the blind in > profitable > >> employment. > >> Other centers should exist for this purpose as > well. For one > >> place to > >> carry all the load is a little unfair. Considering > how high > >> the > >> unemployment rate for the blind is, imagine how > much farther > >> along we > >> would get if even several states had a center of > this > >> nature. > >> > >> On 7/17/12, Ashley Bramlett > >> wrote: > >> > Anmol, > >> > excellent post. WSB does have a good IRS > program. Also, > >> the entrance > >> > requirements were on the website and I hope > they still > >> are. > >> > You have to have good technology skills as > well as > >> decent educational skills > >> > to get in. Since you will work for the > government, they > >> require you to be a > >> > US citizen, able to  pass a drug test, and > be > >> willing to relocate. They also > >> > find you a job after your training. I was at a > job fair > >> and know who I ran > >> > into? > >> > An IRS rep! He said if I wanted to get a job > into that > >> agency, going to WSB > >> > was a good idea. He said they get students > from there > >> all the time and that > >> > the next class containing 30 students was > starting > >> soon. > >> > > >> > If you're thinking of going, you have to weigh > the pros > >> and cons. Also, I > >> > can definitely see why rehab would send > clients there; > >> they gaurantee a job > >> > afterward. As Anmol said, this is appealing > because > >> more successful case > >> > closures mean they keep the funding they > have. > >> > Ashley > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Anmol Bhatia > >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:10 PM > >> > To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> > > >> > Know Arielle I suspect WSB as a whole does not > belong > >> to any organization. > >> > They try to remain neutral and WSB actually > had a table > >> at the exhabit hall > >> > at the NFB convention. I am not a big fan of > WSB to the > >> extend that some on > >> > this list might think I am, however, I do not > like > >> reading some of the > >> > comments I read on here from people who do > not > >> necessarly know all the > >> > facts. > >> > The things Amber has mentioned are valid and > credible > >> because she is there > >> > now. If I were considering attending WSB, I > would > >> seriously take into > >> > consideration the things she mentioned. > However, WSB > >> does have an employment > >> > track and it is easier for Rehab Counselors to > send > >> clients to a training > >> > center which can lead to employment like the > WSB rather > >> than an independent > >> > living training center like the NFB training > centers > >> that do a good job in > >> > providing independent living training, but do > not lead > >> to employment. I > >> > personally understand the value of how > independent > >> living training is > >> > important in being successful in employment > and most > >> rehab counselors do as > >> > well, but we have to justify how we are > spending the > >> tax payer money to > >> > largely ignorent sighted society who do not > necessarly > >> see the value of > >> > independent training for a blind person. > >> > To answer the question, the IRS is a promising > job that > >> pays the starting > >> > salarry of $45,000 I think with growth > opportunity. So > >> you have to decide if > >> > you want to put up with some of the things > mentioned: > >> bad food, unclean > >> > building, ect for 6 to 9 months and have a > good job > >> after that. > >> > Anmol > >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they > never > >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; > but it is > >> vague, like a breeze > >> > among flowers. > >> > Hellen Keller > >> > > >> > > >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Arielle Silverman > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock > Employment > >> Training Programs > >> >> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list" > >> >> > >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 6:22 PM > >> >> I suspect that certain students or > >> >> staff at WSB are ACB members and > >> >> try to recruit, but that the WSB itself > doesn't > >> have a > >> >> particular > >> >> organizational position. > >> >> Arielle > >> >> > >> >> On 7/17/12, Anmol Bhatia > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Thank you Dave for pointing out that > the > >> Little Rock > >> >> chapter of the NFB > >> >> > meets at World Services for the > Blind. Josh, > >> if > >> >> according to you they try so > >> >> > hard to recruit students to the ACB, > then why > >> do they > >> >> allow the NFB meet in > >> >> > their building and the local chapter > of the > >> ACB does > >> >> not meet there? > >> >> > > >> >> > Anmol > >> >> > I seldom think about my limitations, > and they > >> never > >> >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >> > there is just a touch of yearning at > times; > >> but it is > >> >> vague, like a breeze > >> >> > among flowers. > >> >> > Hellen Keller > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > --- On Tue, 7/17/12, Joshua Lester > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> From: Joshua Lester > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little > Rock > >> Employment > >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> To: "National Association of > Blind > >> Students mailing > >> >> list" > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, > 12:25 PM > >> >> >> I'm going to attend LCB, after > >> >> >> graduating from college. > >> >> >> Blessings, Joshua > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > Hello Joshua and everyone, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >     Let' sleet > >> her decide if she > >> >> >> would benefit from a complete > training > >> >> >> > program or not. All three > NFB centers > >> have > >> >> >> employment-related assistance > and > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > offer training in several > specific > >> areas. Have > >> >> you been > >> >> >> to an NFB center > >> >> >> > yourself? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Peter Donahue > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > ----- Original Message > ----- > >> >> >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> >> >> > To: "National Association of > Blind > >> Students > >> >> mailing > >> >> >> list" > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 > 11:01 > >> AM > >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB > Little > >> Rock > >> >> Employment > >> >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > She has the skills to take > care of > >> herself. > >> >> >> > She needs job training. > >> >> >> > Is there an NFB sponsored > ATI > >> program? > >> >> >> > Thanks, Joshua > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On 7/17/12, Peter Donahue > > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> Good morning everyone, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>     LWSB, > >> formerly the Arkansas > >> >> >> Enterprises for the Blind has had > a long > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> checkered history > concerning its > >> treatment > >> >> of the > >> >> >> blind persons it claims > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> to > >> >> >> >> serve. The conditions > you > >> describe have > >> >> existed > >> >> >> there for many years. At > >> >> >> >> one > >> >> >> >> time it was accredited > by the > >> National > >> >> >> Accreditation Council for > Agencies > >> >> >> >> Serving the Blind and > Physically > >> >> Handicapped (NAC.) > >> >> >> Its former blind > >> >> >> >> director was a key > figure in NAC. > >> NAC had > >> >> a > >> >> >> reputation for condoning > >> >> >> >> practices that often led > to blind > >> persons > >> >> being > >> >> >> abused, mistreated, and > >> >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> the case of sheltered > workshops > >> being paid > >> >> less > >> >> >> than the Federal minimum > >> >> >> >> wage. NAC'S so-called > "Standards > >> of > >> >> Accreditation" > >> >> >> failed to address > >> >> >> >> these > >> >> >> >> issues. For example the > standards > >> called > >> >> for the > >> >> >> agency's grounds to be > >> >> >> >> pleasant but did not > require the > >> >> sheltered > >> >> >> workshops they accredited to > >> >> >> >> pay > >> >> >> >> all employees including > the > >> blind > >> >> employees the > >> >> >> Federal minimum wage. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>     In 1985 > >> NAC held its annual > >> >> >> meeting in Littlerock and the NFB > was > >> >> >> >> there > >> >> >> >> to "Greet" them. Both > the then > >> Arkansas > >> >> Enterprises > >> >> >> for the Blind and the > >> >> >> >> Arkansas School for the > Blind > >> were > >> >> picketed by the > >> >> >> NFB. While at AEB a > >> >> >> >> number of AEB clients > told us > >> that there > >> >> were > >> >> >> problems and that it needed > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> to > >> >> >> >> be investigated. I know > because > >> Mary and I > >> >> were on > >> >> >> that picket line. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>     Judging > >> from what I've read > >> >> >> NAC for practical purposes is > gone but > >> >> >> >> vestiges of its evil > doings > >> remain at > >> >> agencies such > >> >> >> as LWSB. Amber here's > >> >> >> >> hoping you will > eventually attend > >> an NFB > >> >> training > >> >> >> center. These centers > >> >> >> >> are > >> >> >> >> a big cut above anything > else out > >> there. > >> >> All the > >> >> >> best. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Peter Donahue > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > > >> >> >> >> To: "National > Association of > >> Blind > >> >> Students mailing > >> >> >> list" > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, > 2012 11:33 > >> PM > >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little > >> Rock > >> >> Employment > >> >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Amber, > >> >> >> >> Well, my goodness. I'd > have to > >> say first > >> >> that I > >> >> >> commend your efforts in > >> >> >> >> sticking to the facts or > trying > >> to. I > >> >> think you did > >> >> >> a good job for > >> >> >> >> someone > >> >> >> >> who did not have a good > >> experience.  I've > >> >> also > >> >> >> heard bad rumors about it. > >> >> >> >> Second, with all this > publicity, > >> I'm real > >> >> surprised > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> >> LWSB continues to stay > open and > >> attracting > >> >> the > >> >> >> clients it does. > >> >> >> >> Which program were you > in? > >> Independent > >> >> living? or a > >> >> >> job program? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> About rules, personally > signing > >> in and out > >> >> doesn't > >> >> >> bother me. You are in > >> >> >> >> a > >> >> >> >> training setting and > with this > >> litigious > >> >> society, > >> >> >> they need to account > >> >> >> >> for > >> >> >> >> everyone. What if there > was an > >> emergency? > >> >> They need > >> >> >> to know where > >> >> >> >> everyone > >> >> >> >> is. People go missing > everyday > >> and are > >> >> never found. > >> >> >> Youwouldn't want your > >> >> >> >> parents or friends or > family > >> calling and > >> >> them > >> >> >> saying, oh, we do not know > >> >> >> >> where your son is;  he > may > >> be on campus > >> >> or > >> >> >> not. > >> >> >> >> The other thing about > the no > >> microwave or > >> >> fridge > >> >> >> would bother me. As a > >> >> >> >> college student, I > enjoyed having > >> my own > >> >> fridge in > >> >> >> my room. > >> >> >> >> It gave me some freedom > to have a > >> cold > >> >> drink or > >> >> >> cold snack when I wanted > >> >> >> >> to. > >> >> >> >> Since the cafeteria > closed early > >> at 7:30, > >> >> this was > >> >> >> definitely nice. > >> >> >> >> That seems early to me > given the > >> fact that > >> >> I eat > >> >> >> late at home; between 7 > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> 8pm. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Anyway, Amber you are > making a > >> good > >> >> personal > >> >> >> decision to leave. So I wish > >> >> >> >> you luck in your next > decision to > >> find > >> >> decent > >> >> >> training or whatever you > >> >> >> >> need. > >> >> >> >> I don't remember your > intro to > >> us, so I'm > >> >> not sure > >> >> >> if you are a current > >> >> >> >> college student or > recent grad. > >> >> >> >> If you haven't finished > school, I > >> hope you > >> >> can as > >> >> >> it opens up more doors > >> >> >> >> to > >> >> >> >> you. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Ashley > >> >> >> >> -----Original > Message----- > >> >> >> >> From: Herrin, Amber R. > >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, > 2012 10:36 > >> PM > >> >> >> >> To: 'National > Association of > >> Blind > >> >> Students mailing > >> >> >> list' > >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little > >> Rock > >> >> Employment > >> >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Ian, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I am currently at WSB, > but am > >> planning to > >> >> leave on > >> >> >> Friday.  Here is what > >> >> >> >> I > >> >> >> >> have experienced.  I > will do > >> my best to > >> >> give > >> >> >> only facts and not color > >> >> >> >> those > >> >> >> >> facts with my opinion, > though > >> before I > >> >> begin, I > >> >> >> will clearly state that > >> >> >> >> if > >> >> >> >> you are asking for an > opinion as > >> to > >> >> whether or not > >> >> >> one should attend this > >> >> >> >> program in order to > obtain a job, > >> I would > >> >> have to > >> >> >> say no.  But I am not > >> >> >> >> you > >> >> >> >> or anyone else for that > matter, > >> and what I > >> >> have > >> >> >> experienced here has > >> >> >> >> colored > >> >> >> >> my opinion, and may not > be very > >> reliable. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> The facts: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> *Several students > (including > >> myself) have > >> >> had > >> >> >> valuables go missing. > >> >> >> >> *The food does not seem > to meet > >> health and > >> >> safety > >> >> >> codes. (just one > >> >> >> >> example-there are > many-one > >> evening we had > >> >> chicken > >> >> >> wings, and though the > >> >> >> >> outside was hot, the > inside was > >> not.  I > >> >> would > >> >> >> not mention this, except > >> >> >> >> this > >> >> >> >> is not an isolated > incident.) > >> >> >> >> *The showers have light > >> bulbs  (not > >> >> protected > >> >> >> by any kind of panels) > >> >> >> >> inside > >> >> >> >> the actual stall where > water > >> could be > >> >> accidentally > >> >> >> splashed.  I brought > >> >> >> >> this > >> >> >> >> up as a concern, so they > put a > >> cover over > >> >> mine, but > >> >> >> mine is not the only > >> >> >> >> one > >> >> >> >> that this is the case > with (as > >> confirmed > >> >> by other > >> >> >> clients.) > >> >> >> >> *Despite several > complaints from > >> many > >> >> clients, the > >> >> >> building is full of > >> >> >> >> bugs. > >> >> >> >> They say that someone > comes > >> regularly to > >> >> spray, but > >> >> >> bugs were found even > >> >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> my room, and I am a very > clean > >> person. > >> >> (read as, do > >> >> >> not leave food in > >> >> >> >> uncealed containers or > dishes > >> with food > >> >> still on > >> >> >> them etc.) > >> >> >> >> *Clients are unable to > have > >> microwaves or > >> >> >> refrigerators in their rooms, > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> so are reduced to > coolers full of > >> ice or > >> >> nothing at > >> >> >> all except cafeteria > >> >> >> >> food.  There are > microwaves > >> that > >> >> physically > >> >> >> exist, but they do not work > >> >> >> >> very > >> >> >> >> well. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Now I can say that there > are > >> other things > >> >> I could > >> >> >> talk about, but they > >> >> >> >> probably come down to > personal > >> preference > >> >> and > >> >> >> really are just normal > >> >> >> >> inconveniences that one > would > >> encounter on > >> >> any > >> >> >> college dorm, except they > >> >> >> >> are > >> >> >> >> exaggerated because of > the fact > >> that > >> >> everything is > >> >> >> scaled down hugely. > >> >> >> >> So > >> >> >> >> while, for example, on > most > >> college > >> >> campuses, you > >> >> >> could go to a dining > >> >> >> >> hall > >> >> >> >> at almost any time of > day, if you > >> do not > >> >> come to > >> >> >> meals at the times > >> >> >> >> specified, you don't > eat > >> meals.  I am > >> >> sure > >> >> >> that anyone can argue that > >> >> >> >> when > >> >> >> >> in school, you have to > work with > >> a > >> >> particular > >> >> >> schedule, and while this is > >> >> >> >> true to some extent, I > do take > >> issue with > >> >> the fact > >> >> >> that we can't even > >> >> >> >> have > >> >> >> >> microwaves or > refrigerators in > >> our rooms > >> >> so that we > >> >> >> may maintain the > >> >> >> >> schedules that are most > >> comfortable for > >> >> us. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> The last thing I mention > is a > >> large thing > >> >> and may > >> >> >> not affect anyone, but > >> >> >> >> I > >> >> >> >> feel I must mention it, > because > >> if I did > >> >> not, I > >> >> >> would be doing a great > >> >> >> >> disservice to anyone > considering > >> attending > >> >> this > >> >> >> center. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Two weeks ago this > Friday, I was > >> groped by > >> >> an > >> >> >> authority figure.  He was > >> >> >> >> picking me up from the > airport, > >> and I was > >> >> >> approaching the baggage claim > >> >> >> >> with > >> >> >> >> a female passenger from > my > >> flight.  This > >> >> >> authority figure approached me > >> >> >> >> without announcing > himself, put > >> his arm > >> >> around my > >> >> >> waist, hugged me to > >> >> >> >> himself in a tight, > possessive > >> manner, and > >> >> told the > >> >> >> female passenger who > >> >> >> >> had > >> >> >> >> offered to walk with me > that he > >> "had it > >> >> under > >> >> >> control from there, but > >> >> >> >> thanks."  After which, > he > >> looked down at > >> >> me > >> >> >> and said, "How was your trip, > >> >> >> >> Punkin?  We've missed > >> you!  We're so > >> >> glad > >> >> >> you're home!" > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> This man did not > announce himself > >> to me in > >> >> the > >> >> >> beginning, should have > >> >> >> >> been > >> >> >> >> treating me > professionally, is > >> old enough > >> >> to be my > >> >> >> father, and possibly > >> >> >> >> even > >> >> >> >> my grandfather, has > only > >> interacted with > >> >> me > >> >> >> minimally since my arrival at > >> >> >> >> the center, I'm 24, etc > etc etc. > >> >> Basically, > >> >> >> it was wayyy wayyyy beyond > >> >> >> >> what > >> >> >> >> one would call > professional or > >> even > >> >> acceptable > >> >> >> regardless of setting. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I cannot tell you > whether to > >> attend this > >> >> center; > >> >> >> only you can decide that > >> >> >> >> for yourself.  What I > can > >> tell you is > >> >> that the > >> >> >> man who did this to me was > >> >> >> >> reported by me, and, I > have > >> discovered, > >> >> has been > >> >> >> reported multiple times > >> >> >> >> by > >> >> >> >> other females that he > has > >> violated in one > >> >> way or > >> >> >> another, and still holds > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> a > >> >> >> >> job here.  I believe > there > >> is something > >> >> big > >> >> >> going on here that I am > >> >> >> >> unaware > >> >> >> >> of, and am only glad to > be > >> leaving. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I have met some truly > wonderful > >> people > >> >> here, but > >> >> >> regardless of that, I > >> >> >> >> could > >> >> >> >> never suggest that > someone attend > >> here. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I hope this helps you > make your > >> >> decision.  If > >> >> >> it does not, please know > >> >> >> >> that > >> >> >> >> I wish you all the > best. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Amber R. Herrin > >> >> >> >> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > >> >> >> >> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > >> >> >> >> "It doesn't matter what > you've > >> heard > >> >> >> >> Impossible is not a > word > >> >> >> >> It's just a reason > >> >> >> >> For someone not to try > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Everybody's scared to > death > >> >> >> >> When they decide to take > that > >> step > >> >> >> >> Out on the water > >> >> >> >> It'll be alright > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Life is so much more > >> >> >> >> Than what your eyes are > seeing > >> >> >> >> You will find your way > >> >> >> >> If you keep believing" > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> -----Original > Message----- > >> >> >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> >> >> On > >> >> >> >> Behalf > >> >> >> >> Of Anmol Bhatia > >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, > 2012 4:49 > >> PM > >> >> >> >> To: National Association > of Blind > >> Students > >> >> mailing > >> >> >> list > >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little > >> Rock > >> >> Employment > >> >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Ian, > >> >> >> >> I have never attended > LWSB as a > >> trainny, > >> >> but I used > >> >> >> to go there on to > >> >> >> >> stay > >> >> >> >> during weekends in the > 1990s. The > >> only > >> >> thing I can > >> >> >> say is that LWSB has > >> >> >> >> made > >> >> >> >> alot of changes last > couple of > >> years and I > >> >> would > >> >> >> think about visiting > >> >> >> >> there > >> >> >> >> before deciding one way > or the > >> other. They > >> >> do have > >> >> >> an option to live off > >> >> >> >> campus and as far as I > am aware > >> that there > >> >> is not a > >> >> >> sign in and sign out > >> >> >> >> policy  after class > time. > >> Now they may > >> >> have > >> >> >> sign in and sign out policy > >> >> >> >> during class time to > keep count > >> of > >> >> attendance, > >> >> >> however, this is know > >> >> >> >> different signing in and > signing > >> out of > >> >> work which > >> >> >> everyone blind and > >> >> >> >> sighted has to do. > >> >> >> >> The IRS program is one > of the > >> best > >> >> programs there > >> >> >> and frankly since you > >> >> >> >> have > >> >> >> >> to be excepted for a job > at one > >> of the IRS > >> >> offices, > >> >> >> it is a guarantied > >> >> >> >> employment after > completing the > >> program > >> >> and they > >> >> >> start at 45,000 or more. > >> >> >> >> The food was not the > greatest, > >> however, as > >> >> I said > >> >> >> above LWSB now known as > >> >> >> >> World Services for the > Blind has > >> made alot > >> >> of > >> >> >> changes under the new > >> >> >> >> director > >> >> >> >> and frankly I can not > tell you > >> how the > >> >> food is now. > >> >> >> As I said earlier, I > >> >> >> >> would make a visit there > before > >> making any > >> >> kind of > >> >> >> decision. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Anmol > >> >> >> >> I seldom think about my > >> limitations, and > >> >> they never > >> >> >> make me sad. Perhaps > >> >> >> >> there is just a touch of > yearning > >> at > >> >> times; but it > >> >> >> is vague, like a > >> >> >> >> breeze > >> >> >> >> among flowers. > >> >> >> >> Hellen Keller > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian > Perrault > >> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> From: Ian Perrault > > >> >> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] > LWSB Little > >> Rock > >> >> Employment > >> >> >> Training Programs > >> >> >> >>> To: "National > Association of > >> Blind > >> >> Students" > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Date: Monday, July > 16, 2012, > >> 4:14 PM > >> >> >> >>> Hi > >> >> >> >>> I’m wondering if > any of you > >> have > >> >> attended > >> >> >> LWSB for one of their > >> >> >> >>> employment training > programs, > >> or LWSB > >> >> in > >> >> >> general? > >> >> >> >>> I’m looking into > one of the > >> IRS > >> >> programs, and > >> >> >> was reading the manual, > >> >> >> >>> and it seems like a > very > >> strict and > >> >> structured > >> >> >> environment, even > >> >> >> >>> though most of the > >> participants are > >> >> adults. For > >> >> >> instance, you have to > >> >> >> >>> sign out if you want > to go > >> somewhere > >> >> and things > >> >> >> like that. Have any of > >> >> >> >>> you attended LWSB? > I’d love > >> to hear > >> >> what your > >> >> >> experiences were. Since > >> >> >> >>> I’ve been to > college, it > >> sounds like > >> >> it’s > >> >> >> not as independent of an > >> >> >> >>> environment. > >> >> >> >>> Ian > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, > change your > >> list > >> >> options or get > >> >> >> your account info for > >> >> >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yah > >> >> >> >>> oo.com > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list > >> options > >> >> or get > >> >> >> your account info for > >> >> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list > >> options > >> >> or get > >> >> >> your account info for > >> >> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list > >> options > >> >> or get > >> >> >> your account info for > >> >> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change > your list > >> options > >> >> or get > >> >> >> your account info for > >> >> >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your > list > >> options or > >> >> get your > >> >> >> account info for > >> >> >> > nabs-l: > >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your > list > >> options or > >> >> get your > >> >> >> account info for > >> >> >> > nabs-l: > >> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list > options > >> or get > >> >> your account > >> >> >> info for nabs-l: > >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list > options or > >> get your > >> >> account info for > >> >> > nabs-l: > >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account > >> >> info for nabs-l: > >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Cordially, > > Nimer Jaber > > Please take the time to read this signature completely as it > contains > some information about the email you have just read and all > attachments contained within as well as some valuable > resources and > methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish > to talk. > > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it > was > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended > recipient, > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of > this > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or > its contents > by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in > civil or > criminal action. I have checked this email and all > corresponding > attachments for security threats. However, security of your > machine is > up to you. Thanks. > > Registered Linux User 529141. > http://counter.li.org/ > Vinux testing and documentation coordinator > To get more information about a free and accessible > operating system, > please click here: > http://www.vinuxproject.org > > To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for > windows XP > and above, please click here: > http://www.nvda-project.org > > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest > technology news. > > Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here: > http://nimertech.blogspot.com > > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call > me at (720) > (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. > Thank > you, and have a great day! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 19 03:03:05 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:03:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific ReleasesNewand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2><46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> <69C9CDCDB8014855A07AD50315D551DF@Gloria> Message-ID: gloria, its not true. -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific ReleasesNewand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook what? So this isn't true? Just wondering ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases Newand Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. > Sincerely, > Hope Paulos > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello students, >> I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this has >> happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad with >> me to school now. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >> Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> >> Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> 650-833-9766 >> >> "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith Biggs, Age >> 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> >> NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are private and >> are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain privileged >> and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, >> you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, distribution, or >> copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is strictly prohibited >> and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). >> ________________________________________ >> From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> To: Sonja Biggs >> Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved >> OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> >> For Immediate Release: >> >> Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for >> JAWS and OpenBook >> >> Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen reading and >> blindness product makers, has just recently developed and released a new >> breakthrough in its line of products of assistive technology for blind >> and visually impaired computer users. >> >> >> >> Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times anywhere you >> can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always wanted to be >> able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be able to >> read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of those >> frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten >> material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you >> have to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you >> are at a conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout >> that is important, and you need to fill out or read along? >> >> >> >> Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> >> >> >> Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests from our >> users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> >> >> >> We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition engine for >> both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release includes >> many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> >> >> >> * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better recognition of >> columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be confusing to read. >> * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print paper, such >> as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print focus and >> not the scanner bed or camera. >> * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% >> accuracy! >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for >> handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a >> handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your >> camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically >> recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output >> from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You >> can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with >> handwriting over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition >> command (JAWS 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the >> handwriting being spoken out to you or sent to your Braille display. >> Please note that these new features offered by this improved version of >> the OCR engine for JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with >> Openbook versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please >> note users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the >> new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with >> the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left out on >> these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work with both 32- >> and 64-bit operating systems. >> >> >> >> Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development team? We >> have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution app for >> your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning and >> reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using >> VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is >> going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you >> find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a >> trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need >> sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, >> or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church >> service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers >> easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more >> fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to >> have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your >> finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and >> not have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out >> if the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling >> conflict that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an >> iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that >> little sticky note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong >> quickly, independently and immediately with the built-in handwriting >> recognition of the OCR engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! >> >> >> >> Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the Apple >> iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any budget. >> So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app for your >> iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The power of >> technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, don't >> hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >> support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your >> feedback! >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> >> P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 04:13:19 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:13:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <6A52E8312BB64964B6F9887EAB3ECD05@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2><46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> <6A52E8312BB64964B6F9887EAB3ECD05@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <003e01cd6564$d54c1300$7fe43900$@gmail.com> Hello Brandon. Freedom Scientific has its own press release / newsletter type thing. It is called "@ Freedom Scientific News". It's where they give news of their current products and services. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook Has FS ever given out press releases? I've never seen one and I've had Jaws for at least 8 years! (Goodness I feel old...) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook You can tell it is a hoax because of how poorly it is written. FS can write a much better press release! Dave At 01:55 PM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. >Sincerely, >Hope Paulos > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > > Hello students, > > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this > has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my Ipad > with me to school now. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM > > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com > > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New > and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > > > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS > > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired > > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 > > Palo Alto, CA 94306 > > 650-833-9766 > > > > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith > Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 > > > > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are > private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may contain > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, dissemination, > distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or the attachments is > strictly prohibited and in violation of the Federal Law (HIPAA). > > ________________________________________ > > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM > > To: Sonja Biggs > > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and > Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > For Immediate Release: > > > > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition > Software for JAWS and OpenBook > > > > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen > reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed and > released a new breakthrough in its line of products of assistive > technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. > > > > > > > > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times > anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you always > wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece of paper and be > able to read it instantly just like anybody else? Or maybe you are one of > those frustrated students that are inundated with printed or handwritten > material that you can't read in or out of a classroom setting and you have > to wait even hours or days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a > conference, you are given a business card or a simple handout that is > important, and you need to fill out or read along? > > > > > > > > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! > > > > > > > > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests > from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. > > > > > > > > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition > engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new release > includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: > > > > > > > > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better > recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be > confusing to read. > > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print > paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better print > focus and not the scanner bed or camera. > > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about 85-90% > > accuracy! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for > handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or place a > handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a door, into your > camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? will automatically > recognize it and be able to read it with speech and / or Braille output > from your preferred synthesizer or Braille display! Not only this. You can > open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image that someone sent you with handwriting > over the email on your computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS > 13 and later only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken > out to you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new > features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for JAWS? or > OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook versions later than > 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note users of JAWS earlier than > 13.0, we will release a version of the new OCR engine tha t we released > with JAWS 13.0 later this month, with the same features as the ones > offered now, so you aren't left out on these new features! This update to > the OCR engine can work with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. > > > > > > > > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development > team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading solution > app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our popular scanning > and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch, using > VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, that's right, OpenBook? is > going mobile, and you will be able to take it anywhere you go that you > find printed material that you cannot read. You will be able to go on a > trip, be given an airport boarding pass, and you will no longer need > sighted assistance to see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, > or to see your flight information. You will be able to go to a church > service and be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers > easily and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more > fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that appears to > have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky note wit h your > finger below or above the Braille marking of the classroom number, and not > have to wait so many hours and precious study time trying to find out if > the instructor canceled the class or whatever other scheduling conflict > that might have occurred with that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod > Touch or iPad, you will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky > note, and you will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently > and immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR > engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! > > > > > > > > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the > Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit any > budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook Mobile? app > for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future shine today! The > power of technology and handwriting is in your hands, like never before! > > > > > > > > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, > don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at > support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and your > feedback! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** > > > > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) > > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 19 10:53:33 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:53:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook In-Reply-To: <6A52E8312BB64964B6F9887EAB3ECD05@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <58B781E5FD1C45E7B8E3213B40A2A4D0@BrandonsLaptop2> <46C71D9C-9BA6-4C09-82E4-8C7B357A65A2@gmail.com> <6A52E8312BB64964B6F9887EAB3ECD05@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Yes, they send out press releases whenever they have something new, new release, price change etc. Dave At 08:42 PM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >Has FS ever given out press releases? >I've never seen one and I've had Jaws for at least 8 years! >(Goodness I feel old...) >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: David Andrews >Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:33 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific >Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook > >You can tell it is a hoax because of how poorly it is written. FS >can write a much better press release! > >Dave > >At 01:55 PM 7/18/2012, you wrote: >>This is a hoax. Please look at the bottom of the message, the PS. >>Sincerely, >>Hope Paulos >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:45 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >> > Hello students, >> > I thought this would be quite a happy piece of news. I know this >>has happened to me, and I think I may really consider bringing my >>Ipad with me to school now. >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- From: Sonja Biggs >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:36 AM >> > To: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com >> > Subject: FW: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New >>and Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> > >> > >> > Sonja Biggs, MA, TVI, COMS >> > Vista Center for the Blind & Visually Impaired >> > 2470 El Camino Real, Suite 107 >> > Palo Alto, CA 94306 >> > 650-833-9766 >> > >> > "Dream the impossible dream...then live it!" --Brandon Keith >>Biggs, Age 19, Blind Performer, LCA-CRB1 >> > >> > NOTE: Confidential. This FAX/Email and any attachments are >>private and are intended only for the use of the addressee(s), may >>contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not >>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the use, >>dissemination, distribution, or copying of this FAX/Email and/or >>the attachments is strictly prohibited and in violation of the >>Federal Law (HIPAA). >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: Keith Christian [keithchristian at roadrunner.com] >> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:22 AM >> > To: Sonja Biggs >> > Subject: [braille-n-teach] Freedom Scientific Releases New and >>Improved OCR Recognition Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> > >> > For Immediate Release: >> > >> > Freedom Scientific Releases New and Improved OCR Recognition >>Software for JAWS and OpenBook >> > >> > Today, Freedom Scientific, one of the world's leading screen >>reading and blindness product makers, has just recently developed >>and released a new breakthrough in its line of products of >>assistive technology for blind and visually impaired computer users. >> > >> > >> > >> > Have you ever wanted to take OpenBook? with you at all times >>anywhere you can possibly go with it? Or even better, have you >>always wanted to be able to pick up a handwritten note on a piece >>of paper and be able to read it instantly just like anybody else? >>Or maybe you are one of those frustrated students that are >>inundated with printed or handwritten material that you can't read >>in or out of a classroom setting and you have to wait even hours or >>days for somebody to read to you. Maybe you are at a conference, >>you are given a business card or a simple handout that is >>important, and you need to fill out or read along? >> > >> > >> > >> > Well, wish and wonder no more! Freedom Scientific now has the solution! >> > >> > >> > >> > Due to popular demand, and numerous emails and feedback requests >>from our users, Freedom Scientific has decided to step forward. >> > >> > >> > >> > We have released a new, updated, and improved OCR recognition >>engine for both, our Openbook? and JAWS? products. This bran new >>release includes many new features, which include, but not limited to: >> > >> > >> > >> > * The ability to recognize smaller type font and better >>recognition of columns in sophisticated tables, which can easily be >>confusing to read. >> > * The ability to recognize print on smaller pieces of print >>paper, such as note slips or contact cards on the spot, with better >>print focus and not the scanner bed or camera. >> > * Finally, the ability to recognize handwriting with about >> 85-90% > accuracy! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yes, that's right! Our new OCR engine has built-in support for >>handwriting recognition. That means that you can either scan or >>place a handwritten note from a co-worker, a spouse, or from a >>door, into your camera or scanner of your choice, and Openbook? >>will automatically recognize it and be able to read it with speech >>and / or Braille output from your preferred synthesizer or Braille >>display! Not only this. You can open a .pdf, .jpg, or .png image >>that someone sent you with handwriting over the email on your >>computer, perform the OCR recognition command (JAWS 13 and later >>only), and bingo! You will hear the handwriting being spoken out to >>you or sent to your Braille display. Please note that these new >>features offered by this improved version of the OCR engine for >>JAWS? or OpenBook? software are only compatible with Openbook >>versions later than 8.0 and JAWS version 13.0 or later. Please note >>users of JAWS earlier than 13.0, we will release a version of the >>new OCR engine tha t we released with JAWS 13.0 later this month, >>with the same features as the ones offered now, so you aren't left >>out on these new features! This update to the OCR engine can work >>with both 32- and 64-bit operating systems. >> > >> > >> > >> > Want some even more awesome news from our OpenBook? development >>team? We have released OpenBook Mobile?, a scanning and reading >>solution app for your iOS device! This means that you can use our >>popular scanning and reading solution right from your iPhone, iPad >>or iPod Touch, using VoiceOver and the camera of your device! Yes, >>that's right, OpenBook? is going mobile, and you will be able to >>take it anywhere you go that you find printed material that you >>cannot read. You will be able to go on a trip, be given an airport >>boarding pass, and you will no longer need sighted assistance to >>see whether your plane was gone before you knew it, or to see your >>flight information. You will be able to go to a church service and >>be able to access printed booklets of hymns or group prayers easily >>and independently without requesting sighted help. Even more >>fantastic, you will be able to walk into a classroom door that >>appears to have no one waiting with you, bump into a little sticky >>note wit h your finger below or above the Braille marking of the >>classroom number, and not have to wait so many hours and precious >>study time trying to find out if the instructor canceled the class >>or whatever other scheduling conflict that might have occurred with >>that instructor. If you have an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, you >>will get it out, snap a photo of that little sticky note, and you >>will be able to find out what's wrong quickly, independently and >>immediately with the built-in handwriting recognition of the OCR >>engine for OpenBook Mobile?! It's so easy! >> > >> > >> > >> > Currently, OpenBook Mobile? for iOS platforms is available at the >>Apple iTunes store and it costs $2.99. This app is designed to fit >>any budget. So, what are you waiting for? Purchase your OpenBook >>Mobile? app for your iPhone / iPod / iPad now, and let your future >>shine today! The power of technology and handwriting is in your >>hands, like never before! >> > >> > >> > >> > If you have any questions regarding these two new initiatives, >>don't hesitate to give us a call at 1-800-444-4443 or e-mail us at >>support at freedomScientific.com. We would like to hear from you and >>your feedback! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > >> > The Freedom Scientific Team ************** >> > >> > P.S. April Fools! ? ? :))) From herrinar at muohio.edu Thu Jul 19 15:00:14 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R.) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:00:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <005301cd64f2$170502c0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <1342475361.99899.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><004e01cd63c4$f5d1a730$e174f590$@edu><97D8FC9437644B66ADE84DF5FE2593FA@OwnerPC> <003701cd6485$fd45f220$f7d1d660$@edu> <005301cd64f2$170502c0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <000801cd65bf$343e7600$9cbb6200$@edu> There is definitely a fee. The whole program is 11 months long and for the entire program, it costs $11,000. One would probably need the assistance of the state if one were to attend this online school. HTH, Amber R. Herrin ATI Student in Training 2012 World Services for the Blind Mobile: (513) 593-5855 E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu 2811 Fair Park Boulevard Little Rock, AR 72204 "It doesn't matter what you've heard Impossible is not a word It's just a reason For someone not to try Everybody's scared to death When they decide to take that step Out on the water It'll be alright Life is so much more Than what your eyes are seeing You will find your way If you keep believing" -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Access Technology Institute Amber is this free of charge, or is their a fee? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herrin, Amber R." To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > Ashley, > > I attended BLIND Inc., in 2010. I was coming here for the assistive > technology instructor program offered. I have found, since I have > decided to leave, a much better option that I would recommend to > anyone looking for any kind of certification for assistive technology. > > Access Technology Institute is an online school that offers an 11 > month course in assistive technology. > > As to them staying open: I think it is because a lot of the people who > come here do come for the IRS program, which does, if you are accepted > into the program after interviews, guarantee you a job once finished. > Others feel they have no actual proof, or not in a way that they can > gather and present to anyone who would do anything. > > I spoke to the C O O Tony Wodell, and though he did physically sit > through my reports of conditions, he was not really listening, as > evidenced by the lie that my state counselor caught him in. > > Basically, he told her on a particular day that something had been > taken care of, though it was not taken care of for another two days. > This was not discovered, of course, until after the fact whenever I > mentioned it in passing while on the phone with her, but the point is > that he didn't say that he would check to be sure it had been taken > care of, or that he had sent out requests for it to be taken care of, > but he assured her that it absolutely had already, past tense, been taken care of. > > Obviously, it was a lie, since it wasn't taken care of until two days > later, but anyway, all of that to say that I don't believe things > change here because not enough people at one time makes a big enough > deal about the problems. One or two people complain, they leave, they > choose not to come back, it all gets swept under the rug. > > Wash, rinse, repeat. > > Best, > > Amber R. Herrin > ATI Student in Training 2012 > World Services for the Blind > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > 2811 Fair Park Boulevard > Little Rock, AR 72204 > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Amber, > Well, my goodness. I'd have to say first that I commend your efforts > in sticking to the facts or trying to. I think you did a good job for > someone who did not have a good experience. I've also heard bad rumors about it. > Second, with all this publicity, I'm real surprised that LWSB > continues to stay open and attracting the clients it does. > Which program were you in? Independent living? or a job program? > > About rules, personally signing in and out doesn't bother me. You are > in a training setting and with this litigious society, they need to > account for everyone. What if there was an emergency? They need to > know where everyone is. People go missing everyday and are never > found. Youwouldn't want your parents or friends or family calling and > them saying, oh, we do not know where your son is; he may be on campus or not. > The other thing about the no microwave or fridge would bother me. As a > college student, I enjoyed having my own fridge in my room. > It gave me some freedom to have a cold drink or cold snack when I > wanted to. > Since the cafeteria closed early at 7:30, this was definitely nice. > That seems early to me given the fact that I eat late at home; between > 7 and 8pm. > > Anyway, Amber you are making a good personal decision to leave. So I > wish you luck in your next decision to find decent training or > whatever you need. > I don't remember your intro to us, so I'm not sure if you are a > current college student or recent grad. > If you haven't finished school, I hope you can as it opens up more > doors to you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Herrin, Amber R. > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:36 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > > I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is > what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not > color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will > clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or > not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would > have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and > what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very reliable. > > The facts: > > *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. > *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one > example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though > the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, > except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light > bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall > where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a > concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one > that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite > several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. > They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found > even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave > food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) > *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their > rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all except cafeteria food. > There are microwaves that physically exist, but they do not work very > well. > > Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they > probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal > inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except > they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled down hugely. > So while, for example, on most college campuses, you could go to a > dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not come to meals at > the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure that anyone can > argue that when in school, you have to work with a particular > schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take issue with > the fact that we can't even have microwaves or refrigerators in our > rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are most comfortable for us. > > The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, > but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a > great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > > Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He > was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage > claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure > approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, > hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the > female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under > control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me > and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad you're home!" > > This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have > been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and > possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally > since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it > was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even > acceptable regardless of setting. > > I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide > that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this > to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported > multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or > another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big > going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > > I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I > could never suggest that someone attend here. > > I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know > that I wish you all the best. > > Amber R. Herrin > Mobile: (513) 593-5855 > E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu > "It doesn't matter what you've heard > Impossible is not a word > It's just a reason > For someone not to try > > Everybody's scared to death > When they decide to take that step > Out on the water > It'll be alright > > Life is so much more > Than what your eyes are seeing > You will find your way > If you keep believing" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > > Ian, > I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to > stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that > LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think > about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do > have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there > is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may > have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of > attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out > of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. > The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since > you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a > guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at > 45,000 or more. > The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known > as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new > director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said > earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >> From: Ian Perrault >> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >> Hi >> I’m wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >> I’m looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >> of you attended LWSB? I’d love to hear what your experiences were. >> Since I’ve been to college, it sounds like it’s not as independent of >> an environment. >> Ian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >> h >> oo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. > edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. > edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu > r%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 19 18:47:22 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:47:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A question for Mac users Message-ID: How does Voice Over handle flash based sites like this one, on the Mac? http://www.altitudeworship.com Jaws reads this site, this way! "Flash movie start, flash movie end." "FB frame, etc." The links aren't readable, by the screenreader! Does Voice Over do the same, on the Mac computers? Thanks, Joshua From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu Thu Jul 19 23:59:49 2012 From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:59:49 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. Tyler: I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully agree with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a campus ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some churches, the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in the church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees slightly is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand that people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the same core beliefs. That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it because that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone disagrees with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of what we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun you. Marc Workman: Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those barriers. On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. Quite frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a colored person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that way. Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their dreams and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to reach for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope life always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to me is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I need it. Yours in Federationism, Justin Salisbury Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 04:12:49 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:12:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was excellent. I would also add two things: 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices about which organization to join and that there's not one big group monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of these goals? Arielle On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: > I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. > > Tyler: > I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully agree > with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation > about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a campus > ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I > quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some churches, > the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in the > church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees slightly > is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand that > people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to > disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the > same core beliefs. > That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something > we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it because > that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone disagrees > with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of what > we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun > you. > > Marc Workman: > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do > you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely > amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because > there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those > barriers. > On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored > person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't > bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. Quite > frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a colored > person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek > mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, > many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in > retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and > myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not > saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that > way. > > Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: > In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their dreams > and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to reach > for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope life > always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to me > is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I need > it. > > Yours in Federationism, > > Justin Salisbury > > Justin M. Salisbury > Class of 2012 > B.A. in Mathematics > East Carolina University > president at alumni.ecu.edu > > “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change > the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 04:30:32 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:30:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Arielle: that was a great post. I just have one question about this. If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," resolution at their convention? Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the federally mandated minimum wage. Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > excellent. I would also add two things: > 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I > would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful > blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The > NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does > not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the > ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what > happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of > blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing > approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean > that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think > the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of > blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices > about which organization to join and that there's not one big group > monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB > and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what > it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > > 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I > have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly > takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual > coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I > would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions > address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their > removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even > since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we > are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for > blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time > for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to > enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to > harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, > instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against > each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach > toward both of these goals? > Arielle > > On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >> >> Tyler: >> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >> agree >> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >> campus >> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >> churches, >> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >> the >> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >> slightly >> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >> that >> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >> same core beliefs. >> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >> because >> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >> disagrees >> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >> what >> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >> you. >> >> Marc Workman: >> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >> do >> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >> absolutely >> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >> barriers. >> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >> Quite >> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >> colored >> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >> before" >> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >> and >> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >> not >> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >> that >> way. >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >> dreams >> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >> reach >> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >> life >> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >> me >> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >> need >> it. >> >> Yours in Federationism, >> >> Justin Salisbury >> >> Justin M. Salisbury >> Class of 2012 >> B.A. in Mathematics >> East Carolina University >> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >> change >> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:01:20 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:01:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computer for college Message-ID: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? Thanks, Beth From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:06:47 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:06:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <348C2208153A441C8F9D52162A8D7370@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages and frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something that will make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than minimum wage is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages. Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both wrong? As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this last year, we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we know we are right, we will win. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Arielle: that was a great post. I just have one question about this. If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," resolution at their convention? Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the federally mandated minimum wage. Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > excellent. I would also add two things: > 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I > would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful > blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The > NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does > not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the > ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what > happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of > blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing > approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean > that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think > the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of > blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices > about which organization to join and that there's not one big group > monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB > and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what > it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > > 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I > have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly > takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual > coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I > would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions > address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their > removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even > since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we > are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for > blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time > for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to > enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to > harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, > instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against > each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach > toward both of these goals? > Arielle > > On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >> >> Tyler: >> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >> agree >> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >> campus >> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >> churches, >> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >> the >> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >> slightly >> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >> that >> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >> same core beliefs. >> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >> because >> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >> disagrees >> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >> what >> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >> you. >> >> Marc Workman: >> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >> do >> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >> absolutely >> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >> barriers. >> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >> Quite >> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >> colored >> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >> before" >> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >> and >> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >> not >> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >> that >> way. >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >> dreams >> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >> reach >> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >> life >> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >> me >> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >> need >> it. >> >> Yours in Federationism, >> >> Justin Salisbury >> >> Justin M. Salisbury >> Class of 2012 >> B.A. in Mathematics >> East Carolina University >> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >> change >> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Jul 20 05:11:42 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:11:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computer for college In-Reply-To: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5008E88E.9080808@tysdomain.com> Can I ask where at in Colorado you are? I've not had good luck with the two agencies I've been involved in. On 7/19/2012 11:01 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but > made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they > don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in > Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. > They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment > training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're > forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. > Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue > would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't > exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced > me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting > the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted > normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Jul 20 05:12:31 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:12:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> Josh, Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Arielle: that was a great post. > I just have one question about this. > If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not > Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > resolution at their convention? > Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the > federally mandated minimum wage. > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >> toward both of these goals? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>> >>> Tyler: >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>> agree >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>> campus >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>> churches, >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>> the >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>> slightly >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>> that >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >>> same core beliefs. >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>> because >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>> disagrees >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>> what >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >>> you. >>> >>> Marc Workman: >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>> do >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>> absolutely >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >>> barriers. >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>> Quite >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>> colored >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>> and >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>> not >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>> that >>> way. >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>> dreams >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>> reach >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>> life >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>> me >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>> need >>> it. >>> >>> Yours in Federationism, >>> >>> Justin Salisbury >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 05:17:17 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:17:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <348C2208153A441C8F9D52162A8D7370@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <348C2208153A441C8F9D52162A8D7370@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Well: the good thing is, that people are leaving the ACB, and joining us, because they realize that we're right. Think about Mike Coppell, (one of their prized members,) who has just left them, and joined us! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages and > frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something that will > make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than minimum wage > is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages. > Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both wrong? > As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this last year, > we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we know we are > right, we will win. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Arielle: that was a great post. > I just have one question about this. > If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not > Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > resolution at their convention? > Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the > federally mandated minimum wage. > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >> toward both of these goals? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>> >>> Tyler: >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>> agree >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>> campus >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>> I >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>> churches, >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>> the >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>> slightly >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>> that >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>> the >>> same core beliefs. >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>> because >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>> disagrees >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>> what >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>> shun >>> you. >>> >>> Marc Workman: >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>> do >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>> absolutely >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>> because >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>> those >>> barriers. >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>> Quite >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>> colored >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>> me. >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>> and >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>> not >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>> that >>> way. >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>> dreams >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>> reach >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>> life >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>> me >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>> need >>> it. >>> >>> Yours in Federationism, >>> >>> Justin Salisbury >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 05:20:08 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:20:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Well, did you attend the convention? You should know! I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the blind, but they vote against fair wages. BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of the IBill out of business. Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Josh, > Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you > should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been > things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. > > On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Arielle: that was a great post. >> I just have one question about this. >> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >> resolution at their convention? >> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >> federally mandated minimum wage. >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>> >>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>> toward both of these goals? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>> >>>> Tyler: >>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>> agree >>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>> hesitation >>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>> campus >>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>>> I >>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>> churches, >>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>> in >>>> the >>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>> slightly >>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>> that >>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>> the >>>> same core beliefs. >>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>> because >>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>> disagrees >>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>> what >>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>> shun >>>> you. >>>> >>>> Marc Workman: >>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>> Why >>>> do >>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>> absolutely >>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>> because >>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>> those >>>> barriers. >>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>> colored >>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>> Quite >>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>> colored >>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>> many, >>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>> me. >>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>> before" >>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>> in >>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>> and >>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>> not >>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>> that >>>> way. >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>> dreams >>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>> reach >>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>> life >>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>> me >>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>> need >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>> >>>> Justin Salisbury >>>> >>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>> Class of 2012 >>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>> East Carolina University >>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>> >>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>> change >>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>> MEAD >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:21:14 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in the world. http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and independence is the way. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? Thanks, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:27:25 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:27:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <7DEA2739-CAA6-4CBD-A189-CE61438926DA@gmail.com> I don't think rehab would buy you a mac though. they don't buy macs for anyone anywhere last i heard. I'l be surprised if someone mentions that they got a mac from rehab. To me, it doesnt' really seem as if they want you to have "the best" of an item, just one that works. While i do agree macs are the best, I don't think they will look at it more like, if they don't have to spend as much money on a top dollar computer like a mac, that's what they'll do. Not sure what to say about the other things you mentioned, and sorry for the discouragement. But unless rehab has changed policy or something, I wouldn't count on them buying you "the best" of something. However if they do, kudos to them. :) On Jul 20, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Jul 20 05:32:42 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:32:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just get a pc. On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order to be independent. You need to have a technology > assessment by a professional blind technology person and it's your > right to get that assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the > meeting with the adaptive technology professionals, talk to their > supervisor. Let the supervisor know that your rehab counselor is > keeping you from succeeding in college and if they want you to pass > your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't > someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really need > an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you > want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need > to have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving > and firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you > can have, even though there may be things you're uncertain about. > Confidence is the key and independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Jul 20 05:34:03 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:34:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general session from 8 to 5. But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your logic is flawless, my friend. On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Well, did you attend the convention? > You should know! > I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the > blind, but they vote against fair wages. > BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. > I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's > position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of > the IBill out of business. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> Josh, >> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >> >> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>> I just have one question about this. >>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>> resolution at their convention? >>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>> >>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>> toward both of these goals? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>> >>>>> Tyler: >>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>>> agree >>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>> hesitation >>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>> campus >>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>>>> I >>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>> churches, >>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>> in >>>>> the >>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>> slightly >>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>>> that >>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>> the >>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>> because >>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>> disagrees >>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>>> what >>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>> shun >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>> Why >>>>> do >>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>> absolutely >>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>> because >>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>> those >>>>> barriers. >>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>> colored >>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>> Quite >>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>> colored >>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>> many, >>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>> me. >>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>> before" >>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>> in >>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>>> and >>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>>> not >>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>>> that >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>> dreams >>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>> reach >>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>>> life >>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>>> me >>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>> need >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>> >>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>> >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>> >>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>> MEAD >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 05:36:08 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:36:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <7DEA2739-CAA6-4CBD-A189-CE61438926DA@gmail.com> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <7DEA2739-CAA6-4CBD-A189-CE61438926DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Valory, are you a Mac user? Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Valerie Gibson wrote: > I don't think rehab would buy you a mac though. they don't buy macs for > anyone anywhere last i heard. I'l be surprised if someone mentions that > they got a mac from rehab. To me, it doesnt' really seem as if they want > you to have "the best" of an item, just one that works. While i do agree > macs are the best, I don't think they will look at it more like, if they > don't have to spend as much money on a top dollar computer like a mac, > that's what they'll do. > > Not sure what to say about the other things you mentioned, and sorry for the > discouragement. But unless rehab has changed policy or something, I > wouldn't count on them buying you "the best" of something. However if they > do, kudos to them. :) > On Jul 20, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the >> key and independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 05:43:40 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:43:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled currency. What is your idea of accessible currency? I'm curious! Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general > session from 8 to 5. > But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever > reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure > don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your > logic is flawless, my friend. > On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Well, did you attend the convention? >> You should know! >> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >> the IBill out of business. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Josh, >>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>> >>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>> I just have one question about this. >>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>> resolution at their convention? >>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>> Hmmm! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>> >>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>> fully >>>>>> agree >>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>> hesitation >>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>>> campus >>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>> and >>>>>> I >>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>> churches, >>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>> slightly >>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that >>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>>> to >>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>>> the >>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>> something >>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>> because >>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>> disagrees >>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>>> of >>>>>> what >>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>>> shun >>>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>>> Why >>>>>> do >>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>> absolutely >>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>> because >>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>> those >>>>>> barriers. >>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>>> Quite >>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>> seek >>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>> many, >>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>>> me. >>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>>> before" >>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>>> in >>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>> me >>>>>> and >>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not >>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>>> it >>>>>> that >>>>>> way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>>> dreams >>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>>> reach >>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>> hope >>>>>> life >>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>>> to >>>>>> me >>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>>> need >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>> change >>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>> MEAD >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Jul 20 05:57:10 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:57:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> Josh, you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm and really go for it, but I have to. You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of money to make this accessible." It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things costing to much a few messages back. I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we can't have something costing money now, can we? As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and announces it. On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? > My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled currency. > What is your idea of accessible currency? > I'm curious! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >> session from 8 to 5. >> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >> logic is flawless, my friend. >> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>> You should know! >>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>> the IBill out of business. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>> Josh, >>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>> >>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>> Hmmm! >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>> fully >>>>>>> agree >>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>>>> campus >>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>>>> shun >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>>>> Why >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>>> those >>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>> colored >>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>> colored >>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>> seek >>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>> many, >>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>>>> me. >>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>>>> before" >>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>>>> reach >>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>> hope >>>>>>> life >>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>>> change >>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 06:17:50 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:17:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Well, the strip of Brailled paper on one side of the bill sounds okay. I'd support something like that, but the Braille getting smashed was my main concern, as well as the cost factor. I also think the sheltered workshops could afford to pay disabled workers the federally mandated minimum wage, if they'd stop awarding huge bonuses to their bosses! What was shown in the mock-trial that we had this year, these workshops give their bosses up to $500000 in bonuses! That's unfair, discriminatory, and immoral! Thanks, Anil Lewis for that line! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Josh, > you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm > and really go for it, but I have to. > You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and > one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me > when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam > the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but > hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and > software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of > money to make this accessible." > > It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get > Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back > and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and > the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you > can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your > self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. > Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless > confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and > actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not > passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I > remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things > costing to much a few messages back. > > I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I > believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid > information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a > high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. > > I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and > accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay > disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we > can't have something costing money now, can we? > > As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work > out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip > of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on > it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would > certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them > clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone > for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and > announces it. > On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >> currency. >> What is your idea of accessible currency? >> I'm curious! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>> session from 8 to 5. >>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>> You should know! >>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>> the IBill out of business. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> Josh, >>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>> you >>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>> Not >>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>> successful >>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>> choices >>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>> against >>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>> approach >>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he >>>>> that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 08:15:49 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:15:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it works well. On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our own self-discovery. Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about people without knowing the whole story. On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Josh, > you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm > and really go for it, but I have to. > You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and > one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me > when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam > the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but > hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and > software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of > money to make this accessible." > > It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get > Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back > and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and > the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you > can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your > self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. > Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless > confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and > actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not > passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I > remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things > costing to much a few messages back. > > I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I > believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid > information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a > high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. > > I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and > accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay > disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we > can't have something costing money now, can we? > > As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work > out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip > of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on > it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would > certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them > clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone > for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and > announces it. > On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >> currency. >> What is your idea of accessible currency? >> I'm curious! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>> session from 8 to 5. >>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>> You should know! >>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>> the IBill out of business. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> Josh, >>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>> you >>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>> Not >>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>> successful >>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>> choices >>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>> against >>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>> approach >>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he >>>>> that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 08:38:27 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:38:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <2376753895255166158@unknownmsgid> Joshua, Obviously you take the NFB's side because you are too lazy to actually think about the issue. I agree with the NFB most of the time, but in this case I just can't understand why an accessible currency wouldn't be a good idea. I'm sure there are reasons and I am not properly informed on this subject. If Windows 8 came with an actual built-in screen reader would you complain because it would put FS and Serotek out of busines as well? If you don't want an accessible currency that's fine, but at least try to find some real reasons... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2012, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Well, did you attend the convention? > You should know! > I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the > blind, but they vote against fair wages. > BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. > I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's > position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of > the IBill out of business. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> Josh, >> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >> >> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>> I just have one question about this. >>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>> resolution at their convention? >>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>> >>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>> toward both of these goals? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>> >>>>> Tyler: >>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>>> agree >>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>> hesitation >>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>> campus >>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>>>> I >>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>> churches, >>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>> in >>>>> the >>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>> slightly >>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>>> that >>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>> the >>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>> because >>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>> disagrees >>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>>> what >>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>> shun >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>> Why >>>>> do >>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>> absolutely >>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>> because >>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>> those >>>>> barriers. >>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>> colored >>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>> Quite >>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>> colored >>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>> many, >>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>> me. >>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>> before" >>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>> in >>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>>> and >>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>>> not >>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>>> that >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>> dreams >>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>> reach >>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>>> life >>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>>> me >>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>> need >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>> >>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>> >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>> >>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>> MEAD >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 08:41:57 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:41:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <-8551430610969251889@unknownmsgid> Have you ever seen Euros? You really don't need braille to have accessible currency. Bank notes are of different sizes, and there are also tactile differences between them. It's very easy to work with Euros, and it's efficient. Are you going to reject something like that just because it doesn't use braille? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2012, at 10:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? > My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled currency. > What is your idea of accessible currency? > I'm curious! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >> session from 8 to 5. >> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >> logic is flawless, my friend. >> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>> You should know! >>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>> the IBill out of business. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>> Josh, >>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>> >>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>> Hmmm! >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>> fully >>>>>>> agree >>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>>>> campus >>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>>>> shun >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>>>> Why >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>>> those >>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>> colored >>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>> colored >>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>> seek >>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>> many, >>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>>>> me. >>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>>>> before" >>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>>>> reach >>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>> hope >>>>>>> life >>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>>> change >>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 08:49:57 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:49:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] A question for Mac users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <-2963949219218263024@unknownmsgid> Flash content is not accessible with VO at this time. Adobe promissed to make it accessible at some point but it hasn't happened yet. We'll see what happens... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > How does Voice Over handle flash based sites like this one, on the Mac? > http://www.altitudeworship.com > Jaws reads this site, this way! > "Flash movie start, flash movie end." > "FB frame, etc." > The links aren't readable, by the screenreader! > Does Voice Over do the same, on the Mac computers? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jul 20 11:00:44 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:00:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal Attacks Message-ID: I would like to remind all of you that personal attacks are not permitted here. We all have strong opinions, and defend them vigorously, and should, but it is not appropriate to question the intelligence, and other characteristics of other list members. David Andrews, List Owner From opensesame at me.com Fri Jul 20 12:37:25 2012 From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:37:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A question for Mac users In-Reply-To: <-2963949219218263024@unknownmsgid> References: <-2963949219218263024@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <8342101F-53B4-42E0-A6FC-8F9785B39795@me.com> Adobe recently announced that they have "suspended" work on making Flash accessible on the Mac. The click2flash extension for safari is probably the best tool for managing flash content, but it does not come close to making flash fully controllable on the Mac. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 20, 2012, at 4:49 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Flash content is not accessible with VO at this time. Adobe promissed > to make it accessible at some point but it hasn't happened yet. We'll > see what happens... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 19, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> How does Voice Over handle flash based sites like this one, on the Mac? >> http://www.altitudeworship.com >> Jaws reads this site, this way! >> "Flash movie start, flash movie end." >> "FB frame, etc." >> The links aren't readable, by the screenreader! >> Does Voice Over do the same, on the Mac computers? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/opensesame%40me.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 13:32:33 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:32:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: What? After he posted on NFB-Talk, saying that he was leaving them? Wow! Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got > slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't > clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you > just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond > by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of > the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it > works well. > On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. > For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be > phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would > still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for > a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be > modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade > games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That > would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have > the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy > wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other > country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. > Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree > with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for > or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's > like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't > want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough > of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. > While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an > organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded > individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either > organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both > because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, > support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for > so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all > deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our > own self-discovery. > Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to > stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about > people without knowing the whole story. > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> Josh, >> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm >> and really go for it, but I have to. >> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and >> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me >> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam >> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but >> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and >> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of >> money to make this accessible." >> >> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get >> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back >> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and >> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you >> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your >> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. >> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless >> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and >> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not >> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I >> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things >> costing to much a few messages back. >> >> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I >> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid >> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a >> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. >> >> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and >> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay >> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we >> can't have something costing money now, can we? >> >> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work >> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip >> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on >> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would >> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them >> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone >> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and >> announces it. >> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >>> currency. >>> What is your idea of accessible currency? >>> I'm curious! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>>> session from 8 to 5. >>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>>> You should know! >>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>>> the IBill out of business. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>>> Josh, >>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>>> you >>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>>> Not >>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken >>>>>>>> differing >>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily >>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>>> choices >>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the >>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine >>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free >>>>>>>>> dinner, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who >>>>>>>>> hears >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” >>>>>>>>> —MARGARET >>>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Ty >>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>> he >>>>>> that >>>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Jul 20 14:46:05 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:46:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From what I remember, we passed a resolution a long time back favoring accessible currency, but we wanted to see it done as part of a currency redesign rather than have it done as a separate activity. There have been some currency redesign activities since our resolution that really didn't deal with accessibility, though. I, for one, have always felt that currency accessibility was an exaggerated problem but did not feel that having it considered when changes were made to the currency was a bad idea. I also felt very uneasy, though, having accessibility of currency called out as a separate activity having the cost of all changes hung on us when there are changes that are made to currency from time to time that do generate changes to vending machines as such. I also objected strongly to some of the pictures painted by those favoring accessibility in the press some time back that implied we were not able to manage at all with currency as is, when most of us have been managing for years with various techniques. That kind of publicity hurts us. I find it upsetting that some organizations and people would trample on our image to gain a political goal, but I digress. One can always choose to support or oppose particular efforts by either of the major consumer organizations, and getting support on specific issues is useful. On the other hand, to be able to truly influence either organization, one needs to be a part of that organization. I have no problem supporting efforts of the NFB for which I might be less enthusiastic knowing that others who may not be enthusiastic about my positions will support them if I get them adopted by the organization. Clearly, if one gets to the point that they are opposing what an organization does more often than supporting that organization, it is probably time to go organization shopping. I also get very nervous when people compare organizations with religions because there are implications there that I don't think truly hold. While it is true that religion and philosophy have always been hand in hand, a philosophy doesn't imply religious bindings. Both major political parties have a philosophy and those who follow a party's philosophy with devotion will tell you that it affects their lives. I think our philosophy goes beyond politics to some degree because it gives me a way of viewing my blindness that helps me get through situations that are difficult. It is not religious, though, but an outgrowth of our collective experience as blind people together with some very thoughtful writings of our leaders. While it is true that many of us are probably like-minded, what I don't think is understood is that we are not like-minded because a leader told us to think alike. We tend to be like- minded because we have come to the NFB because something attracted us about its philosophy. We have come to see many issues similarly because of that philosophy. Still, there is a good deal of diversity in our thinking. One can see that diversity in some of our resolutions. We also have adjusted positions over time based upon changes in society. Still, We do have a viewpoint that comes through much of what we do. If that were not the case, I would be organization shopping. Best regards, Steve Jacobson >On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got >> slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't >> clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you >> just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond >> by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of >> the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it >> works well. >> On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. >> For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be >> phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would >> still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for >> a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be >> modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade >> games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That >> would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have >> the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy >> wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other >> country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. >> Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree >> with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for >> or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's >> like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't >> want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough >> of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. >> While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an >> organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded >> individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either >> organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both >> because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, >> support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for >> so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all >> deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our >> own self-discovery. >> Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to >> stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about >> people without knowing the whole story. >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Josh, >>> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm >>> and really go for it, but I have to. >>> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and >>> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me >>> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam >>> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but >>> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and >>> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of >>> money to make this accessible." >>> >>> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get >>> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back >>> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and >>> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you >>> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your >>> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. >>> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless >>> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and >>> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not >>> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I >>> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things >>> costing to much a few messages back. >>> >>> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I >>> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid >>> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a >>> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. >>> >>> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and >>> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay >>> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we >>> can't have something costing money now, can we? >>> >>> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work >>> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip >>> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on >>> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would >>> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them >>> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone >>> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and >>> announces it. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >>>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >>>> currency. >>>> What is your idea of accessible currency? >>>> I'm curious! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>>>> session from 8 to 5. >>>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>>>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>>>> You should know! >>>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>>>> the IBill out of business. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>>>> Josh, >>>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken >>>>>>>>> differing >>>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily >>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>>>> choices >>>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the >>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine >>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free >>>>>>>>>> dinner, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who >>>>>>>>>> hears >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, its the only thing that ever has. >>>>>>>>>> MARGARET >>>>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>> that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 14:59:37 2012 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:59:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> <5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Tyler! You summed up, in one message, the reason I haven't been active on this list in so long, and ultimately the reason I am a "closet federationist", for all intents and purposes. It's absolutely humiliating to associate publicly with the NFB when so many people think (with good reason) that the majority of us are as you described. I support the NFB because I've experienced first hand the sort of good an organization of this size and caliber can do to fight discrimination and injustice towards the blind. I support the ACB, as well, in their efforts to do likewise. It really shouldn't be about dogmatic belief systems or voting one way or another on issues simply because that's what the superiors in your organization of affiliation would do. It isn't a black or white, yes or no answer to questions like "Should we have accessible currency?" "Should we use canes or guide dogs?" "Is paratransit good or bad?" "Should I use braille or speech to read this?" "Am I blind or visually impaired", and so on and so on and so forth... Some of the comments I get from people in either organization, contributors to this list not excluded, would lead you to believe that each organization has a document somewhere with all of these questions and their respective answers listed on it, and the most die-hard members read it before they go to bed every night. In reality, it is our underlying philosophies about blindness that guide us in answering these questions for ourselves. This could mean different interpretations of philosophy and different answers even within the same group, but it's better that way. It creates free thinkers who are able and willing to argue their beliefs and change them as needed in a world that is constantly changing. That brings me to this voting argument. Whether or not an organization votes yes on something depends on how that something fits into its underlying philosophy and whether it contributes effectively to achieving its short and long term goals. Voting no for something that seems like it would be an absolute good for the blindness community, like fair wages or accessible currency, may in fact be a small move in a much bigger political game than you realize, with the anticipated outcome being a better opportunity to achieve better for the blind later on. We choose our battles. You can't win at everything when you're dealing with politics, and sometimes it's more worthwhile to hold back on certain issues while putting your resources towards others. At one point, accessible currency was an important issue to the ACB and they were pushing for it. The NFB obviously thought the issue was important, too, or they would have let the ACB fight for it. For what ever reason, the NFB felt it was important to postpone the adoption of accessible currency. Maybe they felt that it would hinder their efforts in another area, like employment equality or something they needed those government dollars to go towards more urgently than making... accessible dollars, like improving the library of congress. What I'm saying is that on the personal level and on the organizational level, there's more involved in decision making and voting than a simple yes or no answer on a single issue. You need to look more at the bigger picture, look at the whole game board, and not just the space immediately in front of you, and then I think you'd see a lot more congruity between the NFB, ACB, and their respective members. All the best, Jamie Principato On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Joshua Lester < jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > What? > After he posted on N toFB-Talk, saying that he was leaving them? > Wow! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > > Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got > > slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't > > clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you > > just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond > > by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of > > the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it > > works well. > > On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. > > For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be > > phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would > > still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for > > a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be > > modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade > > games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That > > would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have > > the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy > > wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other > > country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. > > Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree > > with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for > > or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's > > like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't > > want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough > > of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. > > While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an > > organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded > > individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either > > organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both > > because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, > > support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for > > so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all > > deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our > > own self-discovery. > > Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to > > stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about > > people without knowing the whole story. > > > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > >> Josh, > >> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm > >> and really go for it, but I have to. > >> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and > >> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me > >> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam > >> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but > >> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and > >> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of > >> money to make this accessible." > >> > >> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get > >> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back > >> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and > >> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you > >> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your > >> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. > >> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless > >> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and > >> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not > >> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I > >> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things > >> costing to much a few messages back. > >> > >> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I > >> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid > >> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a > >> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. > >> > >> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and > >> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay > >> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we > >> can't have something costing money now, can we? > >> > >> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work > >> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip > >> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on > >> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would > >> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them > >> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone > >> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and > >> announces it. > >> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? > >>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled > >>> currency. > >>> What is your idea of accessible currency? > >>> I'm curious! > >>> Thanks, Joshua > >>> > >>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > >>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general > >>>> session from 8 to 5. > >>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever > >>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure > >>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your > >>>> logic is flawless, my friend. > >>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>>>> Well, did you attend the convention? > >>>>> You should know! > >>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the > >>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. > >>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. > >>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's > >>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of > >>>>> the IBill out of business. > >>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>> > >>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > >>>>>> Josh, > >>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been > >>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. > >>>>>>> I just have one question about this. > >>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do > >>>>>>> Not > >>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > >>>>>>> resolution at their convention? > >>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the > >>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. > >>>>>>> Hmmm! > >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > >>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: > >>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, > >>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other > >>>>>>>> successful > >>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > >>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. > >>>>>>>> The > >>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that > >>>>>>>> does > >>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > >>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that > the > >>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on > what > >>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > >>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > >>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental > philosophy > >>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken > >>>>>>>> differing > >>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily > >>>>>>>> mean > >>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't > >>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of > >>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have > >>>>>>>> choices > >>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big > group > >>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the > >>>>>>>> NFB > >>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing > >>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine > >>>>>>>> years > >>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB > >>>>>>>> increasingly > >>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual > >>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them > down. > >>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > >>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions > >>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for > >>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > >>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front > even > >>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though > >>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for > >>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take > >>>>>>>> time > >>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are > >>>>>>>> also > >>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > >>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will > fight > >>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to > >>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that > >>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other > words, > >>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design > >>>>>>>> against > >>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual > >>>>>>>> approach > >>>>>>>> toward both of these goals? > >>>>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: > >>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Tyler: > >>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't > >>>>>>>>> fully > >>>>>>>>> agree > >>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that > >>>>>>>>> hesitation > >>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> campus > >>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free > >>>>>>>>> dinner, > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some > >>>>>>>>> churches, > >>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that > >>>>>>>>> everyone > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who > disagrees > >>>>>>>>> slightly > >>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we > >>>>>>>>> understand > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's > >>>>>>>>> okay > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have > >>>>>>>>> generally > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> same core beliefs. > >>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with > >>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with > it > >>>>>>>>> because > >>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when > someone > >>>>>>>>> disagrees > >>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of > >>>>>>>>> understanding > >>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I > >>>>>>>>> won't > >>>>>>>>> shun > >>>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Marc Workman: > >>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the > >>>>>>>>> barriers. > >>>>>>>>> Why > >>>>>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an > >>>>>>>>> absolutely > >>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability > >>>>>>>>> because > >>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work > >>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>> those > >>>>>>>>> barriers. > >>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a > >>>>>>>>> colored > >>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I > >>>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of > >>>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>>> Quite > >>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being > a > >>>>>>>>> colored > >>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have > to > >>>>>>>>> seek > >>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I > know > >>>>>>>>> many, > >>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> me. > >>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> before" > >>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've > >>>>>>>>> realized > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who > >>>>>>>>> hears > >>>>>>>>> me > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. > >>>>>>>>> I'm > >>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did > >>>>>>>>> read > >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> way. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: > >>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of > >>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>> dreams > >>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> reach > >>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With > >>>>>>>>> hope > >>>>>>>>> life > >>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The > >>>>>>>>> NFB > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> me > >>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me > >>>>>>>>> if > >>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury > >>>>>>>>> Class of 2012 > >>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics > >>>>>>>>> East Carolina University > >>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens > >>>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” > >>>>>>>>> —MARGARET > >>>>>>>>> MEAD > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Take care, > >>>>>> Ty > >>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net > >>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > >>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; > >>>>>> he > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> dares not reason is a slave. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Take care, > >>>> Ty > >>>> http://tds-solutions.net > >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; > he > >>>> that > >>>> dares not reason is a slave. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Take care, > >> Ty > >> http://tds-solutions.net > >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > >> that > >> dares not reason is a slave. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 15:08:59 2012 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:08:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible currency WAS: NFB Philosophy Message-ID: Good morning all, I think there have been some very reasonable plans put forth to adopt accessible currency. One such plan that I thought made sense was the phasing in of the new currency as the natural refresh cycles take place. The U.S. bills are redesigned on a cycle which I believe is 20 years, but I am not certain of that. As each bill gets redesigned, it is adapted to make it easier to identify by blind individuals. When these redesigneds take place, vendors and other automated bill identification systems need to be updated or refreshed anyways, so allowing them to identify the new currency should not be difficult. I believe a system similar to that of the Euro with bills of different sizes would be the most practical method. If we keep the same width and just adapt the length of each bill, this reduces the need for changes in hardware since most hardware accepts the bills with the short side in. This method allows a minimal impact on the cost to vendors because most of the cost would be incurred anyway with the refresh. I acknowledge that there will be some cost beyond that normally incurred, likely most pronounced in the manufacturing process, but nothing comes without cost. It is true that it would take probably about 40 years for a majority of current currency to be removed from circulation and the primary bill of transaction to be accessible, but who said that our fight was a sprint. Not only should we consider the here and now, but the future as well. As a different point, it seems that our transactions are becoming increasingly digital and the use of cash is falling steeply. Is the need for accessible currency really there in the light of a lack of use of cold hard cash as they say? I personally have never owned or used any bill identification device or software, and though I do see a need for such things in certain situations, I have never really felt that I was hopeless without one. Just my two cents, Respectfully, Bill On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > What? > After he posted on NFB-Talk, saying that he was leaving them? > Wow! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got >> slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't >> clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you >> just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond >> by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of >> the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it >> works well. >> On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. >> For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be >> phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would >> still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for >> a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be >> modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade >> games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That >> would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have >> the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy >> wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other >> country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. >> Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree >> with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for >> or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's >> like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't >> want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough >> of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. >> While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an >> organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded >> individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either >> organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both >> because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, >> support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for >> so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all >> deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our >> own self-discovery. >> Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to >> stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about >> people without knowing the whole story. >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Josh, >>> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm >>> and really go for it, but I have to. >>> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and >>> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me >>> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam >>> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but >>> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and >>> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of >>> money to make this accessible." >>> >>> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get >>> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back >>> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and >>> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you >>> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your >>> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. >>> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless >>> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and >>> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not >>> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I >>> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things >>> costing to much a few messages back. >>> >>> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I >>> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid >>> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a >>> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. >>> >>> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and >>> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay >>> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we >>> can't have something costing money now, can we? >>> >>> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work >>> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip >>> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on >>> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would >>> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them >>> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone >>> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and >>> announces it. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >>>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >>>> currency. >>>> What is your idea of accessible currency? >>>> I'm curious! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>>>> session from 8 to 5. >>>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>>>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>>>> You should know! >>>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>>>> the IBill out of business. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>>>> Josh, >>>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken >>>>>>>>> differing >>>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily >>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>>>> choices >>>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the >>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine >>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free >>>>>>>>>> dinner, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who >>>>>>>>>> hears >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” >>>>>>>>>> —MARGARET >>>>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>> that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 15:33:56 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:33:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputer for college Message-ID: <50097a75.8822320a.32b9.37cf@mx.google.com> I live in Denver. And that doesnt surprise me at all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" The biggesft problems I had with a pc was the ability to interpret errors on the screen, and when I had people look at my pc once or twice, people said things like, "Oh, you have errors on your scree." I was like, "Oh, my God." Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" Message-ID: <002101cd668d$33b479e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and everyone, Appeal! And get the NFB involved as your advocate. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:01 AM Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? Thanks, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 15:36:48 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:36:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Message-ID: <50097b2b.1152650a.72b6.ffffaae5@mx.google.com> Couldn't you quit rehab? If you weren't one of their clients anymore,, they wouldn't be able to make you do anything. I agree that you should go to college and get a major. ----- Original Message ----- From: Beth For=20identifying=20money,=20I=20use=20Looktell=20Money=20Reader,=20an=20ap= p=20on=20my=20 iPhone.=20To=20me,=20that's=20easier=20to=20use=20than=20the=20iBill,=20and= =20it's=20one=20 less=20device=20to=20carry=20around.=20I=20am=20also=20not=20in=20favor=20o= f=20accessible=20 currency.=20For=20one,=20with=20various=20devices=20and=20apps,=20we=20are= =20now=20able=20 to=20tell=20which=20bill=20is=20which,=20anyway.=20For=20another,=20as=20De= siree=20 said,=20it=20would=20be=20too=20costly=20and=20take=20too=20long. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Desiree=20Oudinot=20=20wrote: =20Josh, =20you=20really=20are=20an=20idiot.=20It's=20not=20to=20often=20that=20I=20= just=20drop=20all=20 sarcasm =20and=20really=20go=20for=20it,=20but=20I=20have=20to. =20You=20start=20out=20introducing=20nothing=20to=20the=20list=20but=20bad= =20 information=20and =20one-line=20"I=20agree,"=20"I=20have=20those=20too,"=20then=20you=20jump= =20into=20 bashing=20me =20when=20I=20ask=20about=20the=20philosophy=20of=20NFB.=20From=20there,=20= we=20move=20into=20 "Dam =20the=20ACB=20for=20not=20voting=20for=20fair=20wages.=20NFB=20voted=20aga= inst=20 something,=20but =20hey,=20that's=20ok=20because=20we'd=20put=20the=20manufacturers=20of=20e= quipment=20 and =20software=20out=20of=20business,"=20and=20we=20go=20on=20to=20"omg=20it=20= would=20cost=20 lots=20of =20money=20to=20make=20this=20accessible." =20It's=20people=20like=20you=20who=20drive=20people=20away.=20Maybe=20you= =20did=20just=20 get =20Michael=20capell,=20congratulations,=20but=20there=20are=20people=20that= =20 switch=20back =20and=20forth=20all=20the=20time.=20If=20you=20have=20to=20wait=20for=20so= meone=20like=20 Sean=20and =20the=20others=20on=20this=20list=20to=20give=20you=20an=20intelligent=20c= ogent=20 philosophy=20you =20can=20grab=20on=20to=20as=20a=20lifeline=20so=20you=20can=20hop=20back=20= up=20on=20your =20self-righteous=20confederationist=20soapbox,=20then=20all=20the=20more=20= power=20 to=20you. =20Might=20I=20propose=20though,=20that=20you=20go=20from=20being=20a=20min= dless =20confederationist=20zombie=20who=20spews=20random=20crap=20and=20calls=20= it=20fact,=20 and =20actually=20consider=20thinking=20for=20yourself.=20Your=20arguments=20fo= r=20the=20 NFB=20not =20passing=20the=20accessible=20money=20is=20not=20logical=20at=20all.=20In= =20fact,=20if=20 I =20remember=20correctly,=20you=20were=20one=20of=20the=20ones=20screaming=20= about=20 things =20costing=20to=20much=20a=20few=20messages=20back. =20I=20don't=20want=20what=20I=20said=20to=20be=20taken=20as=20an=20attack= =20on=20the=20NFB,=20 either.=20I =20believe=20every=20organization=20has=20good=20members=20who=20can=20give= =20good,=20 valid =20information=20like=20Sean,=20Arielle=20and=20others=20have,=20but=20they= =20also=20 have=20a =20high=20percentage=20of=20mindless=20bafoons,=20like=20our=20dear=20frien= d,=20as=20 well. =20I=20understand=20that=20it=20would=20cost=20money=20to=20make=20currency= =20brailled=20 and =20accessible,=20but=20hey,=20on=20the=20flip-side,=20it=20would=20cost=20m= oney=20to=20 pay =20disabled=20people=20fair=20wages,=20too,=20so=20lets=20just=20drop=20tha= t,=20because=20 we =20can't=20have=20something=20costing=20money=20now,=20can=20we? =20As=20for=20my=20idea=20of=20currency,=20I=20really=20have=20no=20idea=20= how=20this=20would=20 work =20out,=20since=20the=20braille=20could=20get=20smashed.=20Maybe=20there=20= could=20be=20a=20 strip =20of=20thicker=20paper=20at=20one=20end=20of=20the=20bill=20that=20would=20= have=20the=20 braille=20on =20it;=20it=20would=20not=20prevent=20it=20from=20getting=20pushed=20down,= =20but=20it=20 would =20certainly=20help,=20and=20we=20wouldn't=20have=20to=20walk=20around=20wi= th=20one=20of=20 them =20clunky=20expensive=20money=20readers,=20or=20hold=20the=20bill=20in=20fr= ont=20of=20the=20 IPhone =20for=205=20minutes=20rotating=20it=20every=20which=20direction=20until=20= it=20picks=20 it=20up=20and =20announces=20it. =20On=207/19/2012=2011:43=20PM,=20Joshua=20Lester=20wrote: =20Also,=20do=20you=20know=20how=20much=20it=20would=20cost=20to=20make=20t= he=20money=20 accessible? =20My=20idea,=20when=20Alan=20Ramos=20first=20presented=20it=20to=20me,=20w= as=20a=20 Brailled =20currency. =20What=20is=20your=20idea=20of=20accessible=20currency? =20I'm=20curious! =20Thanks,=20Joshua =20On=207/20/12,=20Littlefield,=20Tyler=20=20wrote: =20I=20did=20attend=20the=20convention.=20I=20did=20not,=20however=20go=20t= o=20every=20 general =20session=20from=208=20to=205. =20But=20hey.=20lets=20bash=20the=20ACB=20for=20not=20voting=20for=20fair=20= wages,=20for=20 whatever =20reason=20they=20did,=20but=20not=20make=20money=20accessible=20because=20= gosh,=20we=20 sure =20don't=20want=20to=20put=20the=20manufacturers=20of=20a=20program=20out=20= of=20 business.=20Your =20logic=20is=20flawless,=20my=20friend. =20On=207/19/2012=2011:20=20PM,=20Joshua=20Lester=20wrote: =20Well,=20did=20you=20attend=20the=20convention? =20You=20should=20know! =20I'm=20not=20"bashing,"=20but=20am=20concerned=20that=20they=20claim=20to= =20be=20of=20the =20blind,=20but=20they=20vote=20against=20fair=20wages. =20BTW,=20they=20voted=20for=20the=20accessible=20currency,=20but=20we=20vo= ted=20 against=20it. =20I've=20heard=20from=20both=20sides=20of=20the=20issue,=20and=20I=20take= =20the=20NFB's =20position,=20because=20accessible=20currency=20would=20put=20the=20 manufacturers=20of =20the=20IBill=20out=20of=20business. =20Blessings,=20Joshua =20On=207/20/12,=20Littlefield,=20Tyler=20=20wrote: =20Josh, =20Like=20I=20said,=20before=20you=20go=20organization=20bashing=20and=20fl= ap=20your=20 lips, =20you =20should=20probably=20ask=20someone=20in=20ACB=20who=20knows=20about=20it.= =20There's=20 been =20things=20that=20the=20NFB=20has=20voted=20against=20too,=20I'm=20sure. =20On=207/19/2012=2010:30=20PM,=20Joshua=20Lester=20wrote: =20Arielle:=20that=20was=20a=20great=20post. =20I=20just=20have=20one=20question=20about=20this. =20If=20our=20philosophies=20aren't=20at=20odds,=20then=20why=20did=20the=20= ACB=20vote,=20 "Do =20Not =20Pass,"=20on=20the=20"Fair=20Wages=20for=20Workers=20with=20Disabilities= =20Act," =20resolution=20at=20their=20convention? =20Evidently,=20they're=20okay=20with=20disabled=20workers=20being=20paid=20= below=20 the =20federally=20mandated=20minimum=20wage. =20Hmmm! =20Thanks,=20Joshua =20On=207/19/12,=20Arielle=20Silverman=20=20wrote: =20Hi=20all, =20I=20think=20Sean's=20description=20of=20"NFB=20philosophy"=20as=20he=20s= ees=20it=20was =20excellent.=20I=20would=20also=20add=20two=20things: =201.=20I=20don't=20think=20the=20NFB=20has=20a=20patent=20on=20this=20phil= osophy.=20In=20 fact,=20I =20would=20argue=20that=20most=20committed=20ACB=20members=20and=20many=20o= ther =20successful =20blind=20people=20who=20choose=20not=20to=20affiliate=20with=20organizati= ons=20also =20espouse=20the=20positive=20philosophy=20of=20blindness=20that=20Sean=20 described. =20The =20NFB=20has=20chosen=20to=20make=20this=20philosophy=20a=20central=20focus= ,=20but=20that =20does =20not=20mean=20that=20non-NFB=20members=20cannot=20live=20by=20it=20themse= lves=20or =20encourage=20others=20to=20accept=20it.=20It=20is=20important=20to=20reme= mber=20that=20 the =20ACB=20split=20off=20from=20the=20NFB,=20and=20although=20I=20am=20not=20= an=20expert=20on=20 what =20happened,=20everything=20I've=20read=20about=20the=20split=20suggests=20= that=20it =20occurred=20because=20of=20disagreements=20about=20how=20leadership=20in= =20the =20organization=20should=20be=20structured,=20not=20about=20fundamental=20 philosophy =20of =20blindness.=20In=20more=20recent=20years=20the=20NFB=20and=20ACB=20have=20= taken=20 differing =20approaches=20to=20some=20policy=20issues,=20but=20that=20does=20not=20ne= cessarily=20 mean =20that=20their=20core=20philosophies=20of=20blindness=20are=20at=20odds.=20= I=20don't=20 think =20the=20two=20organizations=20should=20merge=20into=20one=20super-organiza= tion=20 of =20blind=20Americans=20because=20I=20like=20the=20fact=20that=20individuals= =20have =20choices =20about=20which=20organization=20to=20join=20and=20that=20there's=20not=20= one=20big=20 group =20monopolizing=20the=20organizational=20stage.=20But=20I=20also=20think=20= that=20the=20 NFB =20and=20ACB=20have=20more=20in=20common=20in=20terms=20of=20their=20goals= =20for=20changing =20what =20it=20means=20to=20be=20blind=20than=20we=20might=20think=20on=20first=20= glance. =202.=20To=20address=20Marc's=20point=20about=20universal=20design:=20In=20= the=20nine=20 years =20I =20have=20been=20a=20part=20of=20the=20NFB,=20I=20have=20observed=20that=20= the=20NFB =20increasingly =20takes=20a=20pragmatic=20dualistic=20approach=20to=20promoting=20both=20 individual =20coping=20with=20accessibility=20barriers=20and=20advocacy=20to=20bring=20= them=20 down. =20I =20would=20urge=20you=20to=20read=20the=20NFB=202012=20resolutions=20once=20= they=20become =20available=20online,=20and=20you=20will=20find=20that=20most=20of=20these= =20 resolutions =20address=20access=20barriers=20in=20one=20form=20or=20another=20and=20adv= ocate=20for =20their =20removal.=20I=20believe=20the=20NFB=20is=20moving=20further=20in=20the=20= direction=20of =20pushing=20for=20accessibility=20and=20I=20have=20seen=20change=20on=20th= is=20front=20 even =20since=20the=20time=20when=20I=20first=20joined=20nine=20years=20ago.=20H= owever,=20 though =20we =20are=20committed=20to=20doing=20what=20we=20can=20to=20promote=20universa= l=20access=20 for =20blind=20people,=20we=20also=20are=20aware=20that,=20realistically,=20it= =20will=20 take =20time =20for=20all=20those=20in=20power=20to=20make=20it=20happen.=20In=20the=20m= eantime,=20we=20 are =20also =20working=20to=20help=20blind=20individuals=20figure=20out=20how=20to=20ad= apt=20to=20 those =20barriers=20we=20are=20not=20yet=20able=20to=20control.=20For=20example,= =20we=20will=20 fight =20for=20full=20access=20to=20educational=20technology,=20but=20instead=20o= f=20 waiting=20to =20enroll=20in=20college=20until=20this=20access=20happens,=20we=20will=20a= lso=20work=20 to =20harness=20the=20support=20of=20human=20readers=20and=20other=20adaptatio= ns=20so=20 that =20we =20can=20still=20be=20successful=20in=20spite=20of=20these=20barriers.=20In= =20other=20 words, =20instead=20of=20pitting=20individual=20adaptation=20and=20universal=20des= ign =20against =20each=20other=20as=20mutually=20exclusive=20options,=20why=20not=20take=20= a=20dual =20approach =20toward=20both=20of=20these=20goals? =20Arielle =20On=207/19/12,=20Justin=20Salisbury=20=20wrote:= =20I=20have=20a=20few=20notes=20for=20a=20few=20different=20people=20on=20t= his=20thread. =20Tyler: =20I=20understand=20the=20hesitancy=20about=20getting=20involved=20when=20y= ou=20don't =20fully =20agree =20with=20everything=20that=20everyone=20else=20believes.=20=20I=20once=20h= ad=20that =20hesitation =20about=20getting=20involved=20with=20organized=20religion.=20=20I=20start= ed=20going=20 to =20a =20campus =20ministry=20at=20my=20college=20because=20a=20friend=20sold=20me=20on=20t= he=20free=20 dinner, =20and =20I =20quickly=20learned=20that=20no=20church=20is=20homogenous=20in=20beliefs.= =20=20In=20 some =20churches, =20the=20leadership=20will=20try=20like=20mad=20to=20perpetuate=20the=20ide= a=20that =20everyone =20in =20the =20church=20believes=20exactly=20what=20they=20do=20and=20that=20anyone=20w= ho=20 disagrees =20slightly =20is=20against=20them.=20=20In=20my=20church,=20we=20aren't=20like=20that,= =20and=20we =20understand =20that =20people=20have=20differing=20views.=20=20We=20unite=20under=20the=20idea= =20that=20it's =20okay =20to =20disagree=20on=20individual=20issues=20and=20discuss=20them,=20but=20we=20= have =20generally =20the =20same=20core=20beliefs. =20That's=20how=20we=20are=20in=20the=20Federation.=20=20If=20you=20don't=20= agree=20with =20something =20we're=20doing,=20I'll=20make=20an=20effort=20to=20help=20you=20come=20to= =20terms=20with=20 it =20because =20that's=20my=20individual=20personality.=20=20I=20often=20find=20that,=20= when=20 someone =20disagrees =20with=20something=20we're=20doing,=20it=20is=20because=20of=20a=20lack=20= of =20understanding =20of =20what =20we're=20doing=20or=20the=20underlying=20issue.=20=20At=20the=20end=20of= =20the=20day,=20I =20won't =20shun =20you. =20Marc=20Workman: =20=20=20=20=20Of=20course=20we,=20in=20the=20Federation,=20fight=20to=20br= eak=20down=20the =20barriers. =20Why =20do =20you=20think=20we=20do=20legislative=20lobbying?=20=20Washington=20Semina= r=20is=20an =20absolutely =20amazing=20experience,=20and=20you=20should=20try=20it!=20=20We=20honor=20= adaptability =20because =20there's=20no=20sense=20in=20being=20helpless=20in=20the=20meantime=20whi= le=20we=20work=20 on =20those =20barriers. =20On=20the=20mention=20of=20Sean's=20place=20in=20social=20stratification:= =20=20I=20am=20a =20colored =20person,=20I'm=20the=20first=20person=20in=20my=20family=20to=20go=20to=20= college,=20and=20 I =20don't =20bother=20wallowing=20in=20the=20lack=20of=20advantage=20that=20I=20face= =20because=20of =20it. =20Quite =20frankly,=20I'm=20not=20even=20convinced=20that=20I=20am=20disadvantaged= =20by=20being=20 a =20colored =20person.=20=20With=20the=20first=20generation=20college=20student=20part,= =20I=20have=20 to =20seek =20mentors=20in=20the=20academic=20process=20from=20outside=20my=20family,= =20and=20I=20 know =20many, =20many=20educated=20Federationists=20who=20have=20eagerly=20fulfilled=20th= at=20 role =20for =20me. =20Lastly,=20I've=20made=20comments=20like=20"i've=20had=20this=20conversat= ion=20with =20you =20before" =20in=20a=20public=20manner=20to=20other=20people-trust=20me,=20I=20have-bu= t=20I've =20realized =20in =20retrospect=20that=20it=20only=20creates=20distance=20between=20everyone= =20who=20 hears =20me =20and =20myself.=20=20A=20lot=20of=20people=20take=20that=20as=20an=20implied=20p= ersonal=20 attack. =20I'm =20not =20saying=20Sean=20took=20it=20that=20way,=20but=20I'm=20sure=20plenty=20of= =20people=20did =20read =20it =20that =20way. =20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs,=20I=20loved=20reading=20this=20part=20of=20your= =20email: =20In=20my=20book,=20there=20is=20no=20larger=20crime=20than=20depriving=20= someone=20of =20their =20dreams =20and=20the=20second=20biggest=20crime=20is=20taking=20away=20the=20chance= =20for=20 people =20to =20reach =20for=20those=20dreams.=20For=20while=20there=20are=20dreams,=20there=20is= =20hope.=20 With =20hope =20life =20always=20has=20enough=20energy=20to=20turn=20the=20corner=20and=20keep=20= going.=20=20The =20NFB =20to =20me =20is=20that=20hope=20and=20the=20rock=20and=20refuge=20that=20is=20always= =20there=20for=20me=20 if =20I =20need =20it. =20Yours=20in=20Federationism, =20Justin=20Salisbury =20Justin=20M.=20Salisbury =20Class=20of=202012 =20B.A.=20in=20Mathematics =20East=20Carolina=20University =20president at alumni.ecu.edu =20=93Never=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20committ= ed=20 citizens =20can =20change =20the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=92s=20the=20only=20thing=20that=20ever=20has= .=94=20=20=20=20 =97MARGARET =20MEAD =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info =20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info =20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo main.com =20-- =20Take=20care, =20Ty =20http://tds-solutions.net =20The=20aspen=20project:=20a=20barebones=20light-weight=20mud=20engine: =20http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud =20He=20that=20will=20not=20reason=20is=20a=20bigot;=20he=20that=20cannot=20= reason=20is=20a=20 fool; =20he =20that =20dares=20not=20reason=20is=20a=20slave. =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo main.com =20-- =20Take=20care, =20Ty =20http://tds-solutions.net =20The=20aspen=20project:=20a=20barebones=20light-weight=20mud=20engine: =20http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud =20He=20that=20will=20not=20reason=20is=20a=20bigot;=20he=20that=20cannot=20= reason=20is=20a=20 fool;=20he =20that =20dares=20not=20reason=20is=20a=20slave. =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo main.com =20-- =20Take=20care, =20Ty =20http://tds-solutions.net =20The=20aspen=20project:=20a=20barebones=20light-weight=20mud=20engine: =20http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud =20He=20that=20will=20not=20reason=20is=20a=20bigot;=20he=20that=20cannot=20= reason=20is=20a=20 fool;=20he=20that =20dares=20not=20reason=20is=20a=20slave. =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 %40gmail..com _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for=20nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 15:44:51 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:44:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <50097d05.8295320a.1f37.ffffdc54@mx.google.com> Sounds good on paper, but because I hvae bipolar, there's no way the NFB is going to advoate. I remember having had some stressful experiences at work because of this disorder, so rehab thinks they can take their sweet old time with me because of it. They've been making me do this because of mental issues. They think I clearly demonstrated I can't work, so they want to put x and y supports around me because ... well, let's just say it was money, money, money. I'm not happy because I want college and a degree. I feel like a total disgrace to my family. But thanks, Peter. I should probably appeal, and getting the NFB involved isn't really an option because it was the NFB trying to train me to be "employable." Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" References: <50097a78.8822320a.32b9.37d4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <50097E54.1050704@tysdomain.com> Um, I'm not really sure what you mean by "errors on the screen," but mac shows errors sometimes too. On 7/20/2012 9:33 AM, Beth wrote: > The biggesft problems I had with a pc was the ability to interpret > errors on the screen, and when I had people look at my pc once or > twice, people said things like, "Oh, you have errors on your scree." > I was like, "Oh, my God." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:32:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just > get a pc. > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order to be independent. You need to have a technology > assessment by a professional blind technology person and it's your > right to get that assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the > meeting with the adaptive technology professionals, talk to their > supervisor. Let the supervisor know that your rehab counselor is > keeping you from succeeding in college and if they want you to pass > your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't > someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really need > an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you > want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need > to have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving > and firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you > can have, even though there may be things you're uncertain about. > Confidence is the key and independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; > he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 15:53:56 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:53:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <50097f26.2487320a.72eb.ffffe17d@mx.google.com> I mean that I have errors that JAWS can't interpret or read. Someone or other would tell me that "You have errors in Windows." I had no idea about those errors on the screen, and JAWs wouldn't be able to read the errors. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" Message-ID: <00b701cd6692$ad881f10$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and everyone, Don't assume. You won't know unless you ask. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college Sounds good on paper, but because I hvae bipolar, there's no way the NFB is going to advoate. I remember having had some stressful experiences at work because of this disorder, so rehab thinks they can take their sweet old time with me because of it. They've been making me do this because of mental issues. They think I clearly demonstrated I can't work, so they want to put x and y supports around me because ... well, let's just say it was money, money, money. I'm not happy because I want college and a degree. I feel like a total disgrace to my family. But thanks, Peter. I should probably appeal, and getting the NFB involved isn't really an option because it was the NFB trying to train me to be "employable." Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" Dear List: Someone recently brought up an argument against HR 3086 with respect to the loss of SSI benefits. On the Facebook event Boycott Goodwill page, which can be found and joined at , Anil Lewis made a wonderful satirical post about a month ago, and it's worth reading. Here it is: We will pay you less than the minimum wage so that you will not lose your benefits. We will not provide you with job training nor an opportunity to earn more money so that you can maintain your eligibility for your benefits. You are too severely disabled to work productively to earn a real wage so you should work not to lose your benefits. Though others in similar situations, having the same disability, have successfully obtained competitive employment earning the minimum wage or more, allowing them to actively participate in their communities, enabling them to transition off of public assistance, you should not strive for this same degree of independence. The $1.44 we pay you will allow you to keep your benefits, while the CEOs continue to make six figure salaries for their efforts to assist you to keep your benefits. Justin Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 17:10:21 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:10:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Fri Jul 20 17:26:28 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:26:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BA6@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Beth- Call the state office and talk to the client advocate if you really want the Mac and your sure it's the best device for you at this time. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order to be independent. You need to have a technology > assessment by a professional blind technology person and it's your > right to get that assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the > meeting with the adaptive technology professionals, talk to their > supervisor. Let the supervisor know that your rehab counselor is > keeping you from succeeding in college and if they want you to pass > your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't > someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really need > an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you > want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving > and firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you > can have, even though there may be things you're uncertain about. > Confidence is the key and independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but > made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they > don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in > Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. > They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment > training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're > forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. > Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue > would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't > exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced > me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting > the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted > normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to > do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Fri Jul 20 17:27:17 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:27:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SSI & Subminimum Wages Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BA7@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I love that! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Salisbury Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] SSI & Subminimum Wages Dear List: Someone recently brought up an argument against HR 3086 with respect to the loss of SSI benefits. On the Facebook event Boycott Goodwill page, which can be found and joined at , Anil Lewis made a wonderful satirical post about a month ago, and it's worth reading. Here it is: We will pay you less than the minimum wage so that you will not lose your benefits. We will not provide you with job training nor an opportunity to earn more money so that you can maintain your eligibility for your benefits. You are too severely disabled to work productively to earn a real wage so you should work not to lose your benefits. Though others in similar situations, having the same disability, have successfully obtained competitive employment earning the minimum wage or more, allowing them to actively participate in their communities, enabling them to transition off of public assistance, you should not strive for this same degree of independence. The $1.44 we pay you will allow you to keep your benefits, while the CEOs continue to make six figure salaries for their efforts to assist you to keep your benefits. Justin Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -MARGARET MEAD _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu Fri Jul 20 17:46:01 2012 From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:46:01 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Dear List, There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met two or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong opinions in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone from Baltimore told me what to do. At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but that doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority within us. About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our organization because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals much more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that our active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might not even have closets in which to sit. In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I was mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some people are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. Justin Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 17:53:45 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:53:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] SSI & Subminimum Wages Message-ID: <50099b3b.a859320a.205e.ffffe11b@mx.google.com> Haha=20that=20is=20so=20weird.=20=20I=20would=20never=20accept=20that=20muc= h=20money,=20and=20 I=20swear=20if=20anyone=20tells=20me=20hat=20because=20I'm=20"too=20severel= y=20 disabled",=20they=20are=20lying.=20=20Want=20to=20see=20severely=20disabled= ?=20=20Look=20 at=20my=20boyfriend,=20he=20has=20so=20many=20heart=20issues=20he=20can't=20= work=20 period.=20=20That's=20severely=20disabled. Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Justin=20Salisbury=20,=20Anil=20Lewis=20 made=20a=20wonderful=20satirical=20post=20about=20a=20month=20ago,=20and=20= it's=20worth=20 reading.=20=20Here=20it=20is: We=20will=20pay=20you=20less=20than=20the=20minimum=20wage=20so=20that=20yo= u=20will=20not=20 lose=20your=20benefits.=20We=20will=20not=20provide=20you=20with=20job=20tr= aining=20nor=20 an=20opportunity=20to=20earn=20more=20money=20so=20that=20you=20can=20maint= ain=20your=20 eligibility=20for=20your=20benefits.=20You=20are=20too=20severely=20disable= d=20to=20 work=20productively=20to=20earn=20a=20real=20wage=20so=20you=20should=20wor= k=20not=20to=20 lose=20your=20benefits.=20Though=20others=20in=20similar=20situations,=20ha= ving=20 the=20same=20disability,=20have=20successfully=20obtained=20competitive=20 employment=20earning=20the=20minimum=20wage=20or=20more,=20allowing=20them= =20to=20 actively=20participate=20in=20their=20communities,=20enabling=20them=20to=20= transition=20off=20of=20public=20assistance,=20you=20should=20not=20strive= =20for=20 this=20same=20degree=20of=20independence.=20The=20$1.44=20we=20pay=20you=20= will=20allow=20 you=20to=20keep=20your=20benefits,=20while=20the=20CEOs=20continue=20to=20m= ake=20six=20 figure=20salaries=20for=20their=20efforts=20to=20assist=20you=20to=20keep=20= your=20 benefits. Justin Justin=20M.=20Salisbury Class=20of=202012 B.A.=20in=20Mathematics East=20Carolina=20University president at alumni.ecu.edu =93Never=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20committed= =20citizens=20 can=20change=20the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=92s=20the=20only=20thing=20that= =20ever=20has.=94=20=20=20=20 =97MARGARET=20MEAD _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for=20nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail..com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 17:53:46 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:53:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <50099b3c.a859320a.205e.ffffe11c@mx.google.com> I don't have the money to pay for school. Loans aren't worth crap to pay back, and if you, Ignasi, were to take out student loans, guess what? You'd be paying them back and never have the money, in my case, to comfortably raise the kids and support yourself and a severely disabled husband say. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra wrote: Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Justin, Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security for the blind; to support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by its constitution." I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. Best, Kirt On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: > Dear List, > > There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met two > or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong opinions > in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. > > We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. > > I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. > > I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone > from Baltimore told me what to do. > > At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but that > doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member > voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority within > us. > > About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our organization > because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals much > more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let > everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that our > active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might not > even have closets in which to sit. > > In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain > absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I was > mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some people > are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once > was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. > > Justin > > Justin M. Salisbury > Class of 2012 > B.A. in Mathematics > East Carolina University > president at alumni.ecu.edu > > “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change > the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 18:43:01 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:43:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <50097cf1.137f650a.3707.ffffb138@mx.google.com> References: <50097cf1.137f650a.3707.ffffb138@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sophie, You're fortunate enough to have an Iphone. You're fortunate enough to be tech-savy enough to understand and use voiceover; many blind people aren't. Just something to think about. All, I'm a little confused why we're debating the merits of accessible currency while, as we speak, it is in the process of being implemented. Granted, it's very early in the process still, but we're going to have it, like it or not. And, to my understanding, the NFB is participating in the accessible money's design; I guess national leadership figured, since this is happening anyway, they may as well have a say in it. Seems logical enough to me. Best, Kirt On 7/20/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > For identifying money, I use Looktell Money Reader, an app on my > iPhone. To me, that's easier to use than the iBill, and it's one > less device to carry around. I am also not in favor of accessible > currency. For one, with various devices and apps, we are now able > to tell which bill is which, anyway. For another, as Desiree > said, it would be too costly and take too long. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Desiree Oudinot To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:15:49 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing > you've got > slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really > aren't > clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then > you > just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can > respond > by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination > of > the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but > it > works well. > On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, > either. > For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be > phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you > would > still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most > cases for > a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be > modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like > arcade > games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. > That > would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't > have > the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy > wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other > country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. > Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to > agree > with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization > for > or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. > That's > like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I > don't > want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard > enough > of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a > point. > While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of > such an > organization, gaining something from being surrounded by > like-minded > individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either > organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of > both > because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of > ideas, > support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play > for > so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and > we all > deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of > our > own self-discovery. > Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided > to > stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors > about > people without knowing the whole story. > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Josh, > you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all > sarcasm > and really go for it, but I have to. > You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad > information and > one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into > bashing me > when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into > "Dam > the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against > something, but > hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment > and > software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost > lots of > money to make this accessible." > > It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just > get > Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that > switch back > and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like > Sean and > the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent > philosophy you > can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your > self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power > to you. > Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless > confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, > and > actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the > NFB not > passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if > I > remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about > things > costing to much a few messages back. > > I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, > either. I > believe every organization has good members who can give good, > valid > information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also > have a > high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as > well. > > I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled > and > accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to > pay > disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because > we > can't have something costing money now, can we? > > As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would > work > out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a > strip > of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the > braille on > it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it > would > certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of > them > clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the > IPhone > for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks > it up and > announces it. > On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money > accessible? > My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a > Brailled > currency. > What is your idea of accessible currency? > I'm curious! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every > general > session from 8 to 5. > But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for > whatever > reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we > sure > don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of > business. Your > logic is flawless, my friend. > On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Well, did you attend the convention? > You should know! > I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the > blind, but they vote against fair wages. > BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted > against it. > I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's > position, because accessible currency would put the > manufacturers of > the IBill out of business. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Josh, > Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your > lips, > you > should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's > been > things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. > > On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Arielle: that was a great post. > I just have one question about this. > If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, > "Do > Not > Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > resolution at their convention? > Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below > the > federally mandated minimum wage. > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > excellent. I would also add two things: > 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In > fact, I > would argue that most committed ACB members and many other > successful > blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean > described. > The > NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that > does > not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that > the > ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on > what > happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > organization should be structured, not about fundamental > philosophy > of > blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken > differing > approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily > mean > that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't > think > the two organizations should merge into one super-organization > of > blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have > choices > about which organization to join and that there's not one big > group > monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the > NFB > and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing > what > it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > > 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine > years > I > have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB > increasingly > takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both > individual > coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them > down. > I > would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > available online, and you will find that most of these > resolutions > address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for > their > removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front > even > since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, > though > we > are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access > for > blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will > take > time > for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we > are > also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to > those > barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will > fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of > waiting to > enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work > to > harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so > that > we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other > words, > instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design > against > each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual > approach > toward both of these goals? > Arielle > > On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: > I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. > > Tyler: > I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't > fully > agree > with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that > hesitation > about getting involved with organized religion. I started going > to > a > campus > ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free > dinner, > and > I > quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In > some > churches, > the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that > everyone > in > the > church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who > disagrees > slightly > is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we > understand > that > people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's > okay > to > disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have > generally > the > same core beliefs. > That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with > something > we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with > it > because > that's my individual personality. I often find that, when > someone > disagrees > with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of > understanding > of > what > we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I > won't > shun > you. > > Marc Workman: > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the > barriers. > Why > do > you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an > absolutely > amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor > adaptability > because > there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work > on > those > barriers. > On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a > colored > person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and > I > don't > bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of > it. > Quite > frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being > a > colored > person. With the first generation college student part, I have > to > seek > mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I > know > many, > many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that > role > for > me. > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with > you > before" > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've > realized > in > retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who > hears > me > and > myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal > attack. > I'm > not > saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did > read > it > that > way. > > Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: > In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of > their > dreams > and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for > people > to > reach > for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. > With > hope > life > always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The > NFB > to > me > is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me > if > I > need > it. > > Yours in Federationism, > > Justin Salisbury > > Justin M. Salisbury > Class of 2012 > B.A. in Mathematics > East Carolina University > president at alumni.ecu.edu > > “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed > citizens > can > change > the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” > —MARGARET > MEAD > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a > fool; > he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a > fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a > fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail..com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > From kaybaycar at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 19:27:10 2012 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:27:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi all, While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather close. We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be extremely boring and would not make a good organization. On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Justin, > Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. > While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) > have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating > member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those > disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and > programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's > why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my > admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold > myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and > paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. > "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National > Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security > for the blind; to > support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by > its constitution." > I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to > support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances > when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation > takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement > publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar > by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known > outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the > Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. > No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on > which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly > right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's > official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could > happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, > wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with > about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough > for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without > signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I > see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of > course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to > sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my > beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >> two >> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >> opinions >> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >> >> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >> >> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >> >> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone >> from Baltimore told me what to do. >> >> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >> that >> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member >> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >> within >> us. >> >> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >> organization >> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >> much >> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >> our >> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >> not >> even have closets in which to sit. >> >> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I >> was >> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some people >> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >> >> Justin >> >> Justin M. Salisbury >> Class of 2012 >> B.A. in Mathematics >> East Carolina University >> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >> change >> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 19:38:35 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:38:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Julie, Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's something I just can not do. And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. Best, Kirt On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi all, > > While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the > organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow > and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a > voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be > heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can > influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those > resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple > of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather > close. > > We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of > looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical > mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of > blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to > implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an > issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current > position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in > discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the > way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any > given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. > There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be > extremely boring and would not make a good organization. > > On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Justin, >> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >> for the blind; to >> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >> its constitution." >> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> Dear List, >>> >>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >>> two >>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>> opinions >>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >>> >>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >>> >>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >>> >>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone >>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >>> >>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>> that >>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member >>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>> within >>> us. >>> >>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>> organization >>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>> much >>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >>> our >>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >>> not >>> even have closets in which to sit. >>> >>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I >>> was >>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>> people >>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >>> >>> Justin >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind > of Missouri recording secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 19:42:39 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:42:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Kirt, I was just happy the XBox resolution failed. It's too visual! Why make it accessible, when the games that are created, are made to be visual? We have our own games! http://www.audiogames.com Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Julie, > Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for > it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be > limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's > something I just can not do. > And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last > convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, > even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states > with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen > in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly > clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or > wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the >> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow >> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a >> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be >> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can >> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those >> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple >> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather >> close. >> >> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of >> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical >> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of >> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to >> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an >> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current >> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in >> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the >> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any >> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. >> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be >> extremely boring and would not make a good organization. >> >> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Justin, >>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >>> for the blind; to >>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >>> its constitution." >>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >>>> two >>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>>> opinions >>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >>>> >>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >>>> >>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >>>> >>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because >>>> someone >>>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >>>> >>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>>> that >>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single >>>> member >>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>>> within >>>> us. >>>> >>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>>> organization >>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>>> much >>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >>>> our >>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >>>> not >>>> even have closets in which to sit. >>>> >>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie >>>> I >>>> was >>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>>> people >>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >>>> >>>> Justin >>>> >>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>> Class of 2012 >>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>> East Carolina University >>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>> >>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>> change >>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>> MEAD >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >> of Missouri recording secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 20:24:29 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:24:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Hi, No, it's audiogames.net. Second, when I was talking about the similarities between organized religion and organizations for the blind, I wasn't trying to be offensive. I apologize if it seemed that way, but the truth is, any kind of minority group you get involved in will have a philosophy of sorts, and while you don't have to agree with every single thing they stand for, it helps to at least agree on the major issues if you're going to participate fully in said organization. There are some people, like me, who just don't feel comfortable being confined to one subscribed set of beliefs. That's not to say that I can't agree or disagree with specific issues that are being discussed. I like to think that, with or without a group to back us up, we could hold true to the things that matter to us. With that said, there are definite advantages to belonging to such an organization, the political aspect being the main one. Lobbying for equal accessibility wouldnt happen if people didn't congregate and stand up for their rights. Where we have to be careful is confusing those who want to fight with those who are drafted, so to speak. Dragging everyone into the battle zone isn't safe, nor is it entirely productive. What I really don't like, and it wasn't done in this discussion, I'm just speaking generally, is when certain people try to say you're nothing without the NFB, or God, or what have you. What it comes down to is freedom of choice. No one should be shamed into joining any organization. No one should have to feel like they're having a doctrine or philosophy shoved down their throats. Being pressured into joining something that will undoubtedly change your life only causes discomfort, fear and regret. Recruiting is fine, as long as it's done in an honest, nonjudgmental way, but I take issue with those who can't or won't respect no, or even "I'll think about it" as an answer. Once someone tries to recruit you, it should stand to reason that you would do your research before joining. But for some, research is a daunting task. They would rather go by testimonials and rave reviews. however, these aren't factual. They're simply how a person feels, and usually have little, if anything, to do with the core philosophy or what can be expected of you if you choose to participate. If people are content in whatever lifestyle they choose, whether they're involved with an organized movement of any kind or not, that's their business. It should go without saying that we should always remember the feelings and rights of others, but sometimes in the heat of passionate argument we lose sight of that. My core belief is that one does not need to be a member of anything to succeed. If you choose to be, and find strength to achieve things you feel you otherwise wouldn't be able to, is it merely the power of suggestion? Or is it the people you've met who are encouraging and supportive? Either way, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you have to do what's right for you, not what the NFB says you should do, not what your family says you should do, not what your pastor tells you to do. You are the one who's ultimately in control of your thoughts and decisions. In today's society, free thinking is becoming a distant memory. From a very young age, children are taught what the government thinks they should know, nothing more, nothing less. Then they're taught that their emotions and opinions don't matter. That's why I felt compelled to write this message, because it's not illegal yet to express yourself, though like a fungus, the sharp words of others will often infest your mind, growing and burrowing until you no longer know who you are and what is real. The only way to fight it is to take the words of others such as you're not professional if you have your own opinions and you'll never be anything in stride. They may be able to control what you say in their presence, but they can't control what's in your mind. On 7/20/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Kirt, I was just happy the XBox resolution failed. > It's too visual! > Why make it accessible, when the games that are created, are made to be > visual? > We have our own games! > http://www.audiogames.com > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Julie, >> Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for >> it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be >> limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's >> something I just can not do. >> And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last >> convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, >> even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states >> with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen >> in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly >> clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or >> wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the >>> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow >>> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a >>> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be >>> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can >>> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those >>> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple >>> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather >>> close. >>> >>> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of >>> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical >>> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of >>> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to >>> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an >>> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current >>> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in >>> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the >>> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any >>> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. >>> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be >>> extremely boring and would not make a good organization. >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Justin, >>>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >>>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >>>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >>>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >>>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >>>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >>>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >>>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >>>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >>>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >>>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >>>> for the blind; to >>>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >>>> its constitution." >>>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >>>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >>>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >>>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >>>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >>>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >>>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >>>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >>>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >>>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >>>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >>>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >>>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >>>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >>>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >>>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >>>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >>>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >>>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >>>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >>>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> Dear List, >>>>> >>>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've >>>>> met >>>>> two >>>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>>>> opinions >>>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >>>>> >>>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >>>>> >>>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >>>>> >>>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because >>>>> someone >>>>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >>>>> >>>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>>>> that >>>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single >>>>> member >>>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>>>> within >>>>> us. >>>>> >>>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>>>> organization >>>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>>>> much >>>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >>>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world >>>>> that >>>>> our >>>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we >>>>> might >>>>> not >>>>> even have closets in which to sit. >>>>> >>>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the >>>>> certain >>>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie >>>>> I >>>>> was >>>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>>>> people >>>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I >>>>> once >>>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >>>>> >>>>> Justin >>>>> >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>> >>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>> MEAD >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >>> of Missouri recording secretary, >>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jul 20 21:09:05 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:09:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <5009C8F1.6090902@visi.com> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > -- Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jul 20 21:10:44 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <5009C954.4050705@visi.com> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. But ... if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then they pay for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for financial reasons. Dave On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> -- Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 21:40:33 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com><-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> <5009C8F1.6090902@visi.com> Message-ID: <001201cd66c0$4b7cda80$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie you should talk to July Deeden. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm >>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no >>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I >>> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but >>> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or >>> avenged. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just >>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in >>> order >>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive >>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor >>> know >>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and >>> if >>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. >>> Because >>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you >>> really >>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >>> in >>> the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in >>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They >>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and >>> firm >>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, >>> even >>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key >>> and >>> independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 23:14:00 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:14:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <5009e649.ea0f320a.1062.059c@mx.google.com> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" wrote: Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things back. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews wrote: Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have not worked very much even if given the opportunity. Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some “excuse.” But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of information and give the website and contact information if they are so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in employment require explanation. But right now, I am working with an online application with no place to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always wondering what I could be doing better. Thoughts? If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and learned great skills, what is it? I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another subject line. Thanks. Cindy -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 23:24:04 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:24:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <5009e649.ea0f320a.1062.059c@mx.google.com> References: <5009e649.ea0f320a.1062.059c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Wow! It's like my friend told me, that rehab's concern should be what the client wants! Instead, they want to be stingy! Not all Rehabs are like that, but it sounds like the case for yours! Move to Minnisota! You'll have better luck there! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From tyler at tysdomain.com Fri Jul 20 23:51:49 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:51:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <5009e649.ea0f320a.1062.059c@mx.google.com> References: <5009e649.ea0f320a.1062.059c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5009EF15.50401@tysdomain.com> I keep saying this, but I'll throw it out once more. I'm not sure what "error messages on screen" jaws won't read. In windows, there's not much natively that jaws does not read. You have to keep your mac up to date and cleaned up, in order to get good performance as well. I really suggest you learn how to use a PC properly and go with it and take what DVR will give you. There's no reason why DVR should buy you, or anyone else a mac without good reason, and lack of knowledge of how to use your current system is not that. On 7/20/2012 5:14 PM, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. > They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a > PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Jul 20 23:53:44 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <5009e647.ea0f320a.1062.059b@mx.google.com> References: <5009e647.ea0f320a.1062.059b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the > loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes > plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things > back. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. > But ... > if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then > they pay > for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for > financial reasons. > > Dave > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few > keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do > at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid > work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know > whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving > and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is > the key and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 00:03:43 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:03:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a job application. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When filling out the resume part of the application, put Blind Inc as part of your education, and put the Website in parinthesis. Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. > > If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work > in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, > from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have > not worked very much even if given the opportunity. > > Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always > been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in > person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing > some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of > bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some > “excuse.” > > But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting > me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. > But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on > my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included > supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a > certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of > information and give the website and contact information if they are > so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in > employment require explanation. > > But right now, I am working with an online application with no place > to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a > resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job > qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, > I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep > submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always > wondering what I could be doing better. > > Thoughts? > > If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and > learned great skills, what is it? > > I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are > still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding > strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this > message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding > other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another > subject line. > > Thanks. > > Cindy > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 00:16:52 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:16:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to getaworkingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort of thing? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things back. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews References: <5009e649.ea0f320a.1062.059c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need rehab to do this. As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab understand that you can become more proficient at a technology through practice and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you either have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can easily build up on. Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go to a library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a public Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the on-screen tutorials? Arielle On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Jul 21 00:21:03 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:21:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009e647.ea0f320a.1062.059b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5009F5EF.6070302@tysdomain.com> Pell grants don't cover everything. Most I've seen is about 75% of tuition. On 7/20/2012 5:53 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things >> back. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >> But ... >> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >> they pay >> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >> financial reasons. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >> wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid >> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >> and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >> the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 00:30:50 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:30:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to getaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hmmm! I'll E-mail you about something that might help you. Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due > to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to > people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort > of thing? > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the > loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes > plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn > things > back. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. > But ... > if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then > they pay > for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for > financial reasons. > > Dave > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few > keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do > at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi > stupid > work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know > whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 01:54:34 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:54:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to getaworkingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <500a0bec.25aa320a.3ee5.0e91@mx.google.com> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd probablyget one-to-one training. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, Mac computers take a little learning curve, but I believe they are pretty easy once you get the idea of what the screen reader does. I'm not sure how you can get a Mac computer to use in order to learn it, but I believe that's what you should try to do. BTW, on a PC the balloons that some people say pop up can be found in the notification area in the system tray. Mostly they aren't important as it's saying stuff about how you need to update your computer or turn on system control... Just as long as it didn't cut out Jaws, things are pretty good. And even if it does cut out Jaws, NVDA is always there to save you. I don't know how well you live on your own, but if you feel comfortable moving out and going to college, I'd say apply. I wouldn't try going to the big private colleges because rehab won't pay for it and their application fees are rather steep. If I were you, I'd Google websites of about 10-15 colleges that you may like going to, and get your top 2 or 3 and apply to all of them, but there is a good possibility you won't get in many of them. Once you do get in though, tell rehab you're going and they need to pay. BTW, it's too late to sign up for Fall quarter for one of the big colleges, maybe you should consider going to a community college? It's often much easier to transfer into your school of choice from a community college than just out of high school. For college you need to know: How to brows and navigate the internet, how to format and type in a text editor and how to email. It's also a good thing to know how to navigate through document and folder lists. That's basically all that one needs to know to get through the first few years of college, so if you can somehow learn how to do that on a Mac, I am pretty sure they will proclaim you proficient. Does anyone know of any virtual Mac programs that will allow people to use voice over on a mac setup on a PC? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:33 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: Message-ID: Hello, What center did you attend? You could possibly say something like: Colorado center for the Blind Advanced skills training program or CCB Intensive training program Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 4:40 PM To: National Asociation of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a jobapplication. I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have not worked very much even if given the opportunity. Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some “excuse.” But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of information and give the website and contact information if they are so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in employment require explanation. But right now, I am working with an online application with no place to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always wondering what I could be doing better. Thoughts? If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and learned great skills, what is it? I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another subject line. Thanks. Cindy -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:42:11 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:42:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><348C2208153A441C8F9D52162A8D7370@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello, Is that really a good thing? Who's to tell us that we're right if there is no opposition? What looks better on a bill, two organizations signing for something, or one? What happens if people don't like the governmental system that the NFB uses? Has anyone ever thought what would happen if a nomination went against the NFB president? If there was a group of people who didn't like the way the NFB was run? Of course they could try to run against the powerhouse, but I've seen someone run against someone the NFB president didn't want in office in a state chapter. He was kicked out of the NFB. Of course I don't know enough details, but that sure scared my mom away from being affiliated with the NFB... If enough people wanted that person in office and were willing to stop being a part of the NFB, a new organization would be created. How long did it take the ACB to form out of the NFB? If the ACB and NFB merged, that balance will need to be met again and I bet it will take probably the same time as it took the first time. If you haven't read the DragonLance books, they do a great job of describing the balance of power and the need for opposition for things to get done. That was what made Augustus so strong. He required people to be devil's advocate, so he wouldn't just go on his own thoughts. I haven't seen a specific counsel within the NFB to publicly say what makes the proposed resolutions wrong and I haven't seen any way to amend the resolutions by the NFB as a whole. One can write a resolution that didn't pass, but as I was told (and I may be wrong,) a resolution can't be changed once it reaches the table. That is why the Braille resolution had so much conflict this last year. But my point is, the ACB keeps the NFB focused on what matters to the NFB and I don't think the ACB really is strong enough on that many things to fight effectually against us. Of course if everyone got their act together, there would be some power struggle, but the NFB is young, the NFB is energetic and the NFB people can sit through 2 4 hour sessions in one day with only a strait 2 hour break in the middle! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Well: the good thing is, that people are leaving the ACB, and joining us, because they realize that we're right. Think about Mike Coppell, (one of their prized members,) who has just left them, and joined us! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages and > frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something that will > make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than minimum wage > is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages. > Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both wrong? > As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this last year, > we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we know we are > right, we will win. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Arielle: that was a great post. > I just have one question about this. > If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not > Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > resolution at their convention? > Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the > federally mandated minimum wage. > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >> toward both of these goals? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>> >>> Tyler: >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>> agree >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>> campus >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>> I >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>> churches, >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>> the >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>> slightly >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>> that >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>> the >>> same core beliefs. >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>> because >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>> disagrees >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>> what >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>> shun >>> you. >>> >>> Marc Workman: >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>> do >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>> absolutely >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>> because >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>> those >>> barriers. >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>> Quite >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>> colored >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>> me. >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>> and >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>> not >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>> that >>> way. >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>> dreams >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>> reach >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>> life >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>> me >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>> need >>> it. >>> >>> Yours in Federationism, >>> >>> Justin Salisbury >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:56:05 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:56:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> <5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello, I'm totally for the accessible currency. Because we are at the point to where we will have a large currency shift anyways, why not make it accessible? I think it's dumb not wanting something when you can get it. I've never heard Europeans have any difficulty with their money either way, so I see no harm and all benefit. BTW, I've never heard of the Apple dollar, but most company's will make the conversion to the Amero or what ever it is when it comes out. Also, in my life there has been two total switches of different paper dollar's, the 10 and 20. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general session from 8 to 5. But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your logic is flawless, my friend. On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Well, did you attend the convention? > You should know! > I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the > blind, but they vote against fair wages. > BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. > I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's > position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of > the IBill out of business. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> Josh, >> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >> >> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>> I just have one question about this. >>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>> resolution at their convention? >>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>> >>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>> toward both of these goals? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>> >>>>> Tyler: >>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>>> agree >>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>> hesitation >>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>> campus >>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>> and >>>>> I >>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>> churches, >>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>> in >>>>> the >>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>> slightly >>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>>> that >>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>> to >>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>> the >>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>> something >>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>> because >>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>> disagrees >>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>> of >>>>> what >>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>> shun >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>> Why >>>>> do >>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>> absolutely >>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>> because >>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>> those >>>>> barriers. >>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>> colored >>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>> don't >>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>> Quite >>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>> colored >>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>> seek >>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>> many, >>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>> me. >>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>> before" >>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>> in >>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>>> and >>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>>> not >>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>> it >>>>> that >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>> dreams >>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>> reach >>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>>> life >>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>> to >>>>> me >>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>> need >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>> >>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>> >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>> >>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>> MEAD >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 05:57:52 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:57:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com><5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello, A brailed coin maybe. A brailed paper money, not in a million years, sorry. We'd have to do the different sizes and shapes like the Euro. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled currency. What is your idea of accessible currency? I'm curious! Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general > session from 8 to 5. > But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever > reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure > don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your > logic is flawless, my friend. > On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Well, did you attend the convention? >> You should know! >> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >> the IBill out of business. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Josh, >>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>> >>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>> I just have one question about this. >>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>> resolution at their convention? >>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>> Hmmm! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>> >>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>> fully >>>>>> agree >>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>> hesitation >>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>>> campus >>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>> and >>>>>> I >>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>> churches, >>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>> slightly >>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that >>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>>> to >>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>>> the >>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>> something >>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>> because >>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>> disagrees >>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>>> of >>>>>> what >>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>>> shun >>>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>>> Why >>>>>> do >>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>> absolutely >>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>> because >>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>> those >>>>>> barriers. >>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>>> Quite >>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>> seek >>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>> many, >>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>>> me. >>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>>> before" >>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>>> in >>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>> me >>>>>> and >>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not >>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>>> it >>>>>> that >>>>>> way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>>> dreams >>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>>> reach >>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>> hope >>>>>> life >>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>>> to >>>>>> me >>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>>> need >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>> change >>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>> MEAD >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 03:40:49 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <500a0bec.25aa320a.3ee5.0e91@mx.google.com> References: <500a0bec.25aa320a.3ee5.0e91@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you around. May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd probablyget one-to-one training. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: Message-ID: She already answered the question. She attended Blind Inc, in St Paul, MN. Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > What center did you attend? > You could possibly say something like: > Colorado center for the Blind Advanced skills training program > or > CCB Intensive training program > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Cynthia Bennett > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 4:40 PM > To: National Asociation of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a > jobapplication. > > I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. > > If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work > in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, > from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have > not worked very much even if given the opportunity. > > Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always > been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in > person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing > some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of > bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some > “excuse.” > > But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting > me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. > But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on > my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included > supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a > certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of > information and give the website and contact information if they are > so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in > employment require explanation. > > But right now, I am working with an online application with no place > to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a > resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job > qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, > I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep > submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always > wondering what I could be doing better. > > Thoughts? > > If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and > learned great skills, what is it? > > I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are > still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding > strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this > message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding > other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another > subject line. > > Thanks. > > Cindy > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 04:14:25 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:14:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to getaworkingcomputerfor college Message-ID: <500a2cb3.c539320a.5591.15b7@mx.google.com> I've done community college. I have an AA degree already, so community college is not an option. Also, maybe I should ask someone to purchase the Mac for me for a birthday or Christmas present. I don't really care how I get it, I want a piece of working technology I can use for college besides a Braille notetaker. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" Brandon, I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that got on my nerves in college. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <500a2cb5.c539320a.5591.15b8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sounds to me like you need Blio! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. > Research and papers are harder for me to do because books > are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and > other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded > without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all > that got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if > it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close > your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal > government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push > you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 05:14:08 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:14:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <500a2cb5.c539320a.5591.15b8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, University libraries have accessible databases where you can download articles in PDF or HTML for free if you are a student. There are also free ways to convert a PDF doc to a Word doc, such as sending it to convert at robobraille.org If you decide to go back to school, I would be glad to help you with the research stuff and I'm sure others will as well. You can tell rehab that you will work with blind mentors to learn how to handle the research issues that caused you to have to drop out the first time. "Mentoring" is a big buzzword in rehab, I am told. Best, Arielle On 7/20/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Sounds to me like you need Blio! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Brandon, >> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. >> Research and papers are harder for me to do because books >> are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and >> other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded >> without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all >> that got on my nerves in college. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if >> it's at a >> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close >> your case. >> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal >> government. >> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push >> you >> around. >> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play >> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might >> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >> probablyget one-to-one training. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >> rehab to do this. >> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >> understand >> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >> practice >> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >> either >> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >> easily >> build up on. >> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go >> to a >> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >> public >> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >> on-screen >> tutorials? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >> me from wanting a PC so much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >> you should >> talk to July Deeden. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Andrews" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm >> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >> as "no >> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >> because I >> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >> training, but >> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed >> out or >> avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should >> just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in >> order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the >> adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor >> know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and >> if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. >> Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you >> really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support >> in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want >> in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. >> They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and >> firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, >> even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key >> and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >> si.com >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >> ndefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 05:51:14 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:51:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500a4364.21d4320a.62a5.19c3@mx.google.com> Maybe I should probably tell the counselors that. That and the fact that the job assessment may not be adequate. I don't believe that my ex had to go through that stuff, so there you go. I'm thinking it would be nice if people actually did help me with research. Thanks for the resources. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sounds to me like you need Blio! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: Brandon, I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that got on my nerves in college. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't want to discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if you're not interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious and demeaning birds, then this isn't for you. Justin wrote, Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those barriers. I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down barriers. I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this year's convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. I think my message contained three concerns: 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of removing physical barriers. 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less likely to put as much effort into removing the barrier. The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating things quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I shouldn't have said anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper sentiment behind what Sean wrote, an actual disagreement between my position and that of NFB philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping point. Justin wrote, Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that way. A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect for Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list for a while, though, and we have actually had similar discussions in the past multiple times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened every time, so I did not intend to imply annoyance or frustration, even though I recognize it came across that way. Arielle wrote, However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of these goals? To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension between them though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind people, the others having learned to deal with it, I think it's less likely that the majority is going to be as interested in trying to remove that problem. I have no empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to me. Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority to deal with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions about policy, when advocating for various positions, we shouldn't ignore that minority. The goal should be to design a world in which blind people can get about without first having to spend nine months to a year working full time on blindness training. If you can get that sort of training, that's great. I wish programs like that were available in Canada. However, I believe we should advocate for a world where such extensive training is not necessary. My reason for thinking this is that not everyone is going to be capable of receiving and benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a general principle, in universal design, which means designing things in such a way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this position. I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these lines in "The Right to Live in the World". http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for thinking that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the fuller explanation for another day. "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and use and forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for the wheel chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use of flights of stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the installation of such barriers would not do the trick. A more constructive and affirmative approach is required. Buildings and facilities must be erected according to a design taking account of the disabled and making buildings and facilities accessible to them and functional for them." So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to enter a building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, what tenBroek advocates is building things in a way that makes them accessible to disabled people and functional for them. I would argue, too, that tenBroek would not have included the caveat: accessible to them and functional for them, assuming they are sufficiently trained in the skills of blindness. Here is another passage. "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law up to date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that blind pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will carry, and that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the cane user in time for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes no further than the facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life require. Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use of the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use canes. What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One is entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley case, 'a high degree of skill and care because none but the most foolhardy would venture to go out alone without having that skill and exercising that care.'" I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the percentage of blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect he would have encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not simply to assume that all blind people will be so trained. The right to live in the world, I'm suggesting, is not and should not be limited only to those who have received proper training. Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm not sure I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting to hear what sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on accessible pedestrian signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the general session. Here's the exact quote. > "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian signals are meant to make audible output for blind people... that those sounds are not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's not obnoxious beeping, that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can be useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious and demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB position was that, and I'm quoting again, "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because they add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to traffic becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex intersections where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic patterns." http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, and when they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're also not useful only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, unless heavy north-south traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as complex. And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around me. Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly trained blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother installing those signals that might make crossing streets safer for some blind people, especially because, quoting again, "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we do not need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety of factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or absence of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the threshold for something's not being necessary should be set very high. I would also say that the response to misunderstandings about the installation of APSs should be met with campaigns to educate the public, rather than with refusing potentially useful changes to the environment on the grounds that some people might misinterpret why those changes were made. I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about individual and environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit delete a while back. Cheers, Marc On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > excellent. I would also add two things: > 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I > would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful > blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The > NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does > not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the > ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what > happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of > blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing > approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean > that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think > the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of > blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices > about which organization to join and that there's not one big group > monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB > and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what > it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > > 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I > have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly > takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual > coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I > would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions > address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their > removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even > since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we > are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for > blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time > for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to > enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to > harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, > instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against > each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach > toward both of these goals? > Arielle > > On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >> >> Tyler: >> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully agree >> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a campus >> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some churches, >> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in the >> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees slightly >> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand that >> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >> same core beliefs. >> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it because >> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone disagrees >> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of what >> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >> you. >> >> Marc Workman: >> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do >> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely >> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >> barriers. >> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. Quite >> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a colored >> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" >> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and >> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not >> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that >> way. >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their dreams >> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to reach >> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope life >> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to me >> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I need >> it. >> >> Yours in Federationism, >> >> Justin Salisbury >> >> Justin M. Salisbury >> Class of 2012 >> B.A. in Mathematics >> East Carolina University >> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change >> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From wdg31415 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 08:03:27 2012 From: wdg31415 at gmail.com (William Grussenmeyer) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:03:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500a4364.21d4320a.62a5.19c3@mx.google.com> References: <500a4364.21d4320a.62a5.19c3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: You sound stressed and afraid of your future. You sound afraid to be on your own. You can always walk away from rehab. The most they can do is ask yyou to return any items they purchased for you. College is certainly much less stressful than work and doesn't take as much time. When I went blind I didn't feel ready to get a job. I ignored department of rehab and enrolled in college as a 2nd bachelors, which really annoyed them because I all ready had a bachelors. I took only two or three classes each semester to get myself to become better at jaws and living blind. I finally did get a job the summer after my second year. But it was a job that I found for myself in the area I was studying. I barely made their 5 year or whatever cut off point where they close the case as a failure and ask for your things back. I was also dealing with the trauma of losing my vision. That really affected my rehab classes learning jaws and braille, etc. Sometimes, I couldn't sleep all night because I was terrified and then would pass out from exhaustion, sleep all day and miss my classes at society for the blind. My university I go to has been very good in providing me with notetakers, readers, research assistance, alternative media specialist, etc. You don't need to be proficient at computers or work with them wel. One of the students I know is terrible with Jaws and windows. The school simply provides her with a research assistant to help with downloading and looking for articles and skimming them to make sure its what she wants. Another student I know who goes there has bipolar but she is not blind. She still goes to the department of rehab. Her sisters and mother also have bipolar. Its a struggle for them. She even dropped out of one college and is now going to the college I am at. In the end it all comes down to finding people who will help you. I hate asking people for help and I was jealous of other people who are sighted and don't need help, but one day last semester when I was stressed out the department chair told me that when she went to graduate school things became so difficult she had to ask for a lot of help many times from professors and other students and she has no disability of any kind. Learning from others, getting help from others, and so forth is what everyone does to succeed. Department of rehab doesn't seem all that willing to help you do what you want. You should look else where -- at colleges with high amounts of services, FASFA loans, any friends or family, etc. --Bill On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: > Maybe I should probably tell the counselors that. That and the > fact that the job assessment may not be adequate. > I don't believe that my ex had to go through that stuff, so there > you go. I'm thinking it would be nice if people actually did > help me with research. Thanks for the resources. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:14:08 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, > University libraries have accessible databases where you can > download > articles in PDF or HTML for free if you are a student. There are > also > free ways to convert a PDF doc to a Word doc, such as sending it > to > convert at robobraille.org > If you decide to go back to school, I would be glad to help you > with > the research stuff and I'm sure others will as well. You can tell > rehab that you will work with blind mentors to learn how to > handle the > research issues that caused you to have to drop out the first > time. > "Mentoring" is a big buzzword in rehab, I am told. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Sounds to me like you need Blio! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. > Research and papers are harder for me to do because books > are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and > other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded > without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all > that got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if > it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close > your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal > government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will > push > you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and > play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I > might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly > go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm > sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be > pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, > you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to > get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the > best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the > experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need > to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing > anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart > before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg31415%40gmail.com > From wdg31415 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 08:27:04 2012 From: wdg31415 at gmail.com (William Grussenmeyer) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:27:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a jobapplication. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think the problem is your resume at all. 8 month gap means nothing really. I had 5 year gap of unemployment on my resume. It looked really bad and some guy even asked about it over the phone. I didn't tell him about being blind or doing rehab really slowly over 2 or 3 years. I didn't like the sound of the guy anyway and didn't want to work for him. But I got some very good jobs despite the recession and bad resume. The mistake you are making is simply submitting applications or sending in resumes. They don't even look at all the apps or resumes. To get the job I am currently working at I looked up their information, learned about them, sent them an email asking to talk to them on the phone (if I had more courage I could have just called because their phone numbers are listed on the website). I told them I liked their work and where they worked at and wanted to know more about working there. I had all ready submitted an application but they told me that if I had not called they probably would never seen my app in the database. They just look up what they can and don't go through the full ppool of resumes. They were happy to talk to me and were looking for interns. So it was great and I got the job that way. I got my previous job from a friend who recommended me to someone he used to work for who was looking for interns but didnt want to post the job opening. She wanted word of mouth recommendaitons instead of interviewing endless people on the street. The best way to get a job I learned from a career counselor is to simply call them up or email them (make sure you research them some so you know what you are talking about) and simply introduce yourself. Networking is the best, fastest way to get a job. Tell everyone you know you are looking for a job and the story of your job search -- even telling people when you make random small talk at starbucks could end up landing you a job. You never know. Call people, email people, meet people, make friends etc. is far better than submitting applications which is a waste of time mostly. For me actually calling people and talking to them was terrifying and took a lot of courage. But it got me what I needed. There is some more information at the following website which is written by the career counselor who I took a class from. She counsels engineering and computer science fields but really it applies to all jobs. The website is http://www.seriousjobseeker.com/ --Bill On 7/21/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > She already answered the question. > She attended Blind Inc, in St Paul, MN. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> What center did you attend? >> You could possibly say something like: >> Colorado center for the Blind Advanced skills training program >> or >> CCB Intensive training program >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cynthia Bennett >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 4:40 PM >> To: National Asociation of Blind Students >> Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a >> jobapplication. >> >> I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. >> >> If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work >> in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, >> from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have >> not worked very much even if given the opportunity. >> >> Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always >> been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in >> person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing >> some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of >> bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some >> “excuse.” >> >> But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting >> me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. >> But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on >> my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included >> supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a >> certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of >> information and give the website and contact information if they are >> so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in >> employment require explanation. >> >> But right now, I am working with an online application with no place >> to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a >> resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job >> qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, >> I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep >> submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always >> wondering what I could be doing better. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and >> learned great skills, what is it? >> >> I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are >> still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding >> strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this >> message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding >> other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another >> subject line. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Cindy >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg31415%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 09:07:23 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:07:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <500a4364.21d4320a.62a5.19c3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Great post! I'd also recommend the CAP programs. CAP stands for "Client Assistance Program." Thanks, Joshua On 7/21/12, William Grussenmeyer wrote: > You sound stressed and afraid of your future. You sound afraid to be > on your own. You can always walk away from rehab. The most they can > do is ask yyou to return any items they purchased for you. College is > certainly much less stressful than work and doesn't take as much time. > When I went blind I didn't feel ready to get a job. I ignored > department of rehab and enrolled in college as a 2nd bachelors, which > really annoyed them because I all ready had a bachelors. I took only > two or three classes each semester to get myself to become better at > jaws and living blind. I finally did get a job the summer after my > second year. But it was a job that I found for myself in the area I > was studying. I barely made their 5 year or whatever cut off point > where they close the case as a failure and ask for your things back. > I was also dealing with the trauma of losing my vision. That really > affected my rehab classes learning jaws and braille, etc. Sometimes, > I couldn't sleep all night because I was terrified and then would pass > out from exhaustion, sleep all day and miss my classes at society for > the blind. > My university I go to has been very good in providing me with > notetakers, readers, research assistance, alternative media > specialist, etc. > You don't need to be proficient at computers or work with them wel. > One of the students I know is terrible with Jaws and windows. The > school simply provides her with a research assistant to help with > downloading and looking for articles and skimming them to make sure > its what she wants. > Another student I know who goes there has bipolar but she is not > blind. She still goes to the department of rehab. Her sisters and > mother also have bipolar. Its a struggle for them. She even dropped > out of one college and is now going to the college I am at. > In the end it all comes down to finding people who will help you. I > hate asking people for help and I was jealous of other people who are > sighted and don't need help, but one day last semester when I was > stressed out the department chair told me that when she went to > graduate school things became so difficult she had to ask for a lot of > help many times from professors and other students and she has no > disability of any kind. Learning from others, getting help from > others, and so forth is what everyone does to succeed. > Department of rehab doesn't seem all that willing to help you do > what you want. You should look else where -- at colleges with high > amounts of services, FASFA loans, any friends or family, etc. > > --Bill > > > On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: >> Maybe I should probably tell the counselors that. That and the >> fact that the job assessment may not be adequate. >> I don't believe that my ex had to go through that stuff, so there >> you go. I'm thinking it would be nice if people actually did >> help me with research. Thanks for the resources. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:14:08 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >> dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >> >> Beth, >> University libraries have accessible databases where you can >> download >> articles in PDF or HTML for free if you are a student. There are >> also >> free ways to convert a PDF doc to a Word doc, such as sending it >> to >> convert at robobraille.org >> If you decide to go back to school, I would be glad to help you >> with >> the research stuff and I'm sure others will as well. You can tell >> rehab that you will work with blind mentors to learn how to >> handle the >> research issues that caused you to have to drop out the first >> time. >> "Mentoring" is a big buzzword in rehab, I am told. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 7/20/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Sounds to me like you need Blio! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Brandon, >> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. >> Research and papers are harder for me to do because books >> are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and >> other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded >> without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all >> that got on my nerves in college. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if >> it's at a >> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close >> your case. >> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal >> government. >> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will >> push >> you >> around. >> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and >> play >> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I >> might >> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >> probablyget one-to-one training. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >> rehab to do this. >> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >> understand >> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >> practice >> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >> either >> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >> easily >> build up on. >> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly >> go >> to a >> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >> public >> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >> on-screen >> tutorials? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >> me from wanting a PC so much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >> you should >> talk to July Deeden. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Andrews" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm >> sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm >> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >> as "no >> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >> because I >> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >> training, but >> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be >> pointed >> out or >> avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, >> you >> should >> just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in >> order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to >> get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the >> adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor >> know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and >> if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. >> Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you >> really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the >> best >> support >> in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the >> experience >> you want >> in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need >> to >> have a >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. >> They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and >> firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, >> even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key >> and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing >> anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart >> before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >> si.com >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >> ndefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wdg31415%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 09:17:58 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:17:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, capitalized! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: > Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, > > I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't want to > discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if you're not > interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious and demeaning > birds, then this isn't for you. > > Justin wrote, > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do > you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely > amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because > there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those > barriers. > > I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down barriers. > I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this year's > convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. > > I think my message contained three concerns: > > 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of > removing physical barriers. > > 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept it and > move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." > > 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less likely to > put as much effort into removing the barrier. > > The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating things > quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I shouldn't have said > anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper sentiment behind what Sean > wrote, an actual disagreement between my position and that of NFB > philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping point. > > Justin wrote, > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in > retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and > myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not > saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that > way. > > A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect for > Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list for a while, > though, and we have actually had similar discussions in the past multiple > times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened every time, so I did not > intend to imply annoyance or frustration, even though I recognize it came > across that way. > > Arielle wrote, > However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote universal > access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take > time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those barriers > we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to enroll > in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the > support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, instead > of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other as > mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of > these goals? > > To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're mutually > exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension between them > though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind people, the others > having learned to deal with it, I think it's less likely that the majority > is going to be as interested in trying to remove that problem. I have no > empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to me. > > Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority to deal > with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions about policy, when > advocating for various positions, we shouldn't ignore that minority. The > goal should be to design a world in which blind people can get about without > first having to spend nine months to a year working full time on blindness > training. If you can get that sort of training, that's great. I wish > programs like that were available in Canada. However, I believe we should > advocate for a world where such extensive training is not necessary. My > reason for thinking this is that not everyone is going to be capable of > receiving and benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a > general principle, in universal design, which means designing things in such > a way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are > required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this > position. > > I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these lines > in "The Right to Live in the World". > http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html > > But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for thinking > that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the fuller explanation > for another day. > > "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and use and > forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for the wheel > chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use of flights of > stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the installation of such > barriers would not do the trick. A more constructive and affirmative > approach is required. Buildings and facilities must be erected according to > a design taking account of the disabled and making buildings and facilities > accessible to them and functional for them." > > So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to enter a > building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, what tenBroek > advocates is building things in a way that makes them accessible to disabled > people and functional for them. I would argue, too, that tenBroek would not > have included the caveat: accessible to them and functional for them, > assuming they are sufficiently trained in the skills of blindness. Here is > another passage. > > "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law up to > date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that blind > pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will carry, and > that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the cane user in time > for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes no further than the > facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life require. > Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use of > the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use canes. > What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One is > entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley case, 'a > high degree of skill and care because none but the most foolhardy would > venture to go out alone without having that skill and exercising that > care.'" > > I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the percentage of > blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect he would have > encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not simply to assume that > all blind people will be so trained. The right to live in the world, I'm > suggesting, is not and should not be limited only to those who have received > proper training. > > Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting > individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm not sure > I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting to hear what > sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on accessible pedestrian > signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the general session. Here's the > exact quote. > >> "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian signals >> are meant to make audible output for blind people... that those sounds are >> not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's not obnoxious beeping, >> that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." > > There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can be > useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious and > demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB position was > that, and I'm quoting again, > > "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because they > add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to traffic > becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex intersections > where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic patterns." > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm > > I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, and when > they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're also not useful > only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, unless heavy north-south > traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as complex. > And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around me. > > Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly trained > blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother installing those > signals that might make crossing streets safer for some blind people, > especially because, quoting again, > > "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we do not > need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm > > What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety of > factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or absence > of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the threshold for > something's not being necessary should be set very high. I would also say > that the response to misunderstandings about the installation of APSs should > be met with campaigns to educate the public, rather than with refusing > potentially useful changes to the environment on the grounds that some > people might misinterpret why those changes were made. > > I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about individual and > environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. > > For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit delete a > while back. > > Cheers, > > Marc > On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >> toward both of these goals? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>> >>> Tyler: >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>> agree >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>> campus >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>> I >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>> churches, >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>> the >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>> slightly >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>> that >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>> the >>> same core beliefs. >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>> because >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>> disagrees >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>> what >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>> shun >>> you. >>> >>> Marc Workman: >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>> do >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>> absolutely >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>> because >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>> those >>> barriers. >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>> Quite >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>> colored >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>> me. >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>> and >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>> not >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>> that >>> way. >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>> dreams >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>> reach >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>> life >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>> me >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>> need >>> it. >>> >>> Yours in Federationism, >>> >>> Justin Salisbury >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 10:09:48 2012 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 06:09:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's always capitalized in Print. On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Joshua Lester < jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, > capitalized! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: > > Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, > > > > I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't want > to > > discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if you're not > > interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious and demeaning > > birds, then this isn't for you. > > > > Justin wrote, > > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why > do > > you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an > absolutely > > amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because > > there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those > > barriers. > > > > I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down barriers. > > I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this > year's > > convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. > > > > I think my message contained three concerns: > > > > 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of > > removing physical barriers. > > > > 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept it > and > > move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." > > > > 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less likely > to > > put as much effort into removing the barrier. > > > > The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating > things > > quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I shouldn't have > said > > anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper sentiment behind what > Sean > > wrote, an actual disagreement between my position and that of NFB > > philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping > point. > > > > Justin wrote, > > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you > before" > > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in > > retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me > and > > myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm > not > > saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it > that > > way. > > > > A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect > for > > Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list for a > while, > > though, and we have actually had similar discussions in the past multiple > > times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened every time, so I did > not > > intend to imply annoyance or frustration, even though I recognize it came > > across that way. > > > > Arielle wrote, > > However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote > universal > > access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will > take > > time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are > also > > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > barriers > > we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to > enroll > > in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the > > support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, > instead > > of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other > as > > mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of > > these goals? > > > > To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're > mutually > > exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension between them > > though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind people, the others > > having learned to deal with it, I think it's less likely that the > majority > > is going to be as interested in trying to remove that problem. I have no > > empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to > me. > > > > Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority to > deal > > with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions about policy, > when > > advocating for various positions, we shouldn't ignore that minority. The > > goal should be to design a world in which blind people can get about > without > > first having to spend nine months to a year working full time on > blindness > > training. If you can get that sort of training, that's great. I wish > > programs like that were available in Canada. However, I believe we should > > advocate for a world where such extensive training is not necessary. My > > reason for thinking this is that not everyone is going to be capable of > > receiving and benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a > > general principle, in universal design, which means designing things in > such > > a way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are > > required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this > > position. > > > > I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these > lines > > in "The Right to Live in the World". > > > http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html > > > > But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for thinking > > that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the fuller > explanation > > for another day. > > > > "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and use > and > > forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for the wheel > > chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use of flights of > > stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the installation of > such > > barriers would not do the trick. A more constructive and affirmative > > approach is required. Buildings and facilities must be erected according > to > > a design taking account of the disabled and making buildings and > facilities > > accessible to them and functional for them." > > > > So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to > enter a > > building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, what > tenBroek > > advocates is building things in a way that makes them accessible to > disabled > > people and functional for them. I would argue, too, that tenBroek would > not > > have included the caveat: accessible to them and functional for them, > > assuming they are sufficiently trained in the skills of blindness. Here > is > > another passage. > > > > "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law > up to > > date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that blind > > pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will carry, > and > > that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the cane user in > time > > for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes no further than the > > facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life > require. > > Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use of > > the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use canes. > > What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One is > > entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley case, > 'a > > high degree of skill and care because none but the most foolhardy would > > venture to go out alone without having that skill and exercising that > > care.'" > > > > I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the percentage > of > > blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect he would have > > encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not simply to assume that > > all blind people will be so trained. The right to live in the world, I'm > > suggesting, is not and should not be limited only to those who have > received > > proper training. > > > > Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting > > individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm not > sure > > I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting to hear what > > sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on accessible pedestrian > > signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the general session. Here's the > > exact quote. > > > >> "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian signals > >> are meant to make audible output for blind people... that those sounds > are > >> not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's not obnoxious > beeping, > >> that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." > > > > There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can be > > useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious and > > demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB position was > > that, and I'm quoting again, > > > > "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because > they > > add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to traffic > > becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex > intersections > > where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic patterns." > > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm > > > > I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, and > when > > they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're also not > useful > > only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, unless heavy > north-south > > traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as complex. > > And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around me. > > > > Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly trained > > blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother installing > those > > signals that might make crossing streets safer for some blind people, > > especially because, quoting again, > > > > "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we do > not > > need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." > > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm > > > > What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety of > > factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or > absence > > of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the threshold for > > something's not being necessary should be set very high. I would also say > > that the response to misunderstandings about the installation of APSs > should > > be met with campaigns to educate the public, rather than with refusing > > potentially useful changes to the environment on the grounds that some > > people might misinterpret why those changes were made. > > > > I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about individual > and > > environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. > > > > For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit delete > a > > while back. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > >> excellent. I would also add two things: > >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I > >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful > >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The > >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does > >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the > >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what > >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of > >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing > >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean > >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think > >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of > >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices > >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group > >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB > >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what > >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > >> > >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I > >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly > >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual > >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I > >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions > >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their > >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even > >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we > >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for > >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time > >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also > >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to > >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to > >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, > >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against > >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach > >> toward both of these goals? > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: > >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. > >>> > >>> Tyler: > >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully > >>> agree > >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that > hesitation > >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a > >>> campus > >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and > >>> I > >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some > >>> churches, > >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone > in > >>> the > >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees > >>> slightly > >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand > >>> that > >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to > >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally > >>> the > >>> same core beliefs. > >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something > >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it > >>> because > >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone > >>> disagrees > >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of > >>> what > >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't > >>> shun > >>> you. > >>> > >>> Marc Workman: > >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why > >>> do > >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an > >>> absolutely > >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability > >>> because > >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on > >>> those > >>> barriers. > >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a > colored > >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't > >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. > >>> Quite > >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a > >>> colored > >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek > >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know > many, > >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for > >>> me. > >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you > >>> before" > >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized > in > >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me > >>> and > >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm > >>> not > >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it > >>> that > >>> way. > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: > >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their > >>> dreams > >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to > >>> reach > >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope > >>> life > >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to > >>> me > >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I > >>> need > >>> it. > >>> > >>> Yours in Federationism, > >>> > >>> Justin Salisbury > >>> > >>> Justin M. Salisbury > >>> Class of 2012 > >>> B.A. in Mathematics > >>> East Carolina University > >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu > >>> > >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > >>> change > >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET > MEAD > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 11:35:37 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:35:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500a941b.e895320a.0340.2754@mx.google.com> Rehab's excuse for not helping with college is that they want to take their sweet old time with seeing capabilities and employabilities. I'm sorry, but I've been in college and in limbo for way too long. Good stories, Bill. They might just help. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: William Grussenmeyer wrote: Maybe I should probably tell the counselors that. That and the fact that the job assessment may not be adequate. I don't believe that my ex had to go through that stuff, so there you go. I'm thinking it would be nice if people actually did help me with research. Thanks for the resources. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Sounds to me like you need Blio! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: Brandon, I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that got on my nerves in college. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" Message-ID: <005801cd6757$1354e980$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with out a mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not college material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a doctorate level class RJ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 17:08:28 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:08:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <22580881.1342890508666.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi Rj, I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels discouraged from it too. We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor should we discourage her from college. Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If she wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize with her because I struggled with research too; all long complex articles. Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she said books were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not always reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of college. So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. Ashley -----Original Message----- >From: RJ Sandefur >Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > >Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with out a >mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of >college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not college >material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're >saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a doctorate >level class RJ! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Beth" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > >> Brandon, >> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and >> papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and >> articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be >> downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that >> got on my nerves in college. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a >> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. >> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. >> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you >> around. >> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play >> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might >> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >> probablyget one-to-one training. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >> rehab to do this. >> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >> understand >> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >> practice >> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >> either >> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >> easily >> build up on. >> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go >> to a >> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >> public >> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >> on-screen >> tutorials? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >> me from wanting a PC so much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >> you should >> talk to July Deeden. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Andrews" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm >> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >> as "no >> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >> because I >> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >> training, but >> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed >> out or >> avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should >> just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in >> order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the >> adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor >> know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and >> if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. >> Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you >> really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support >> in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want >> in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. >> They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and >> firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, >> even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key >> and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >> si.com >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >> ndefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.n From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 17:30:06 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:30:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500ae731.03ed320a.5fa9.3c15@mx.google.com> How could I fight the assessments? I don't understand how I should fight THAT. I do have bipolar after all, and they want behavioral changes. They're so obsessed with THAT and not the fact that I'm a disgrace to my family. I'm sorry. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7CA39B2A-EBCB-45C0-8E63-0BB02AFE4344@gmail.com> Joshua wrote, > When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, capitalized! Then you've never seen it spelled correctly. Check out the NFB site where I got the article http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html Little T, big B. Oh yes, also important, he was born in my home province of Alberta, Canada. That's apropos of nothing. I just like to point it out. Cheers, Marc > n 2012-07-21, at 3:17 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, > capitalized! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: >> Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, >> >> I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't want to >> discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if you're not >> interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious and demeaning >> birds, then this isn't for you. >> >> Justin wrote, >> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do >> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely >> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >> barriers. >> >> I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down barriers. >> I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this year's >> convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. >> >> I think my message contained three concerns: >> >> 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of >> removing physical barriers. >> >> 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept it and >> move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." >> >> 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less likely to >> put as much effort into removing the barrier. >> >> The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating things >> quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I shouldn't have said >> anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper sentiment behind what Sean >> wrote, an actual disagreement between my position and that of NFB >> philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping point. >> >> Justin wrote, >> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" >> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and >> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not >> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that >> way. >> >> A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect for >> Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list for a while, >> though, and we have actually had similar discussions in the past multiple >> times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened every time, so I did not >> intend to imply annoyance or frustration, even though I recognize it came >> across that way. >> >> Arielle wrote, >> However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote universal >> access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >> time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those barriers >> we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to enroll >> in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the >> support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, instead >> of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other as >> mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of >> these goals? >> >> To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're mutually >> exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension between them >> though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind people, the others >> having learned to deal with it, I think it's less likely that the majority >> is going to be as interested in trying to remove that problem. I have no >> empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to me. >> >> Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority to deal >> with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions about policy, when >> advocating for various positions, we shouldn't ignore that minority. The >> goal should be to design a world in which blind people can get about without >> first having to spend nine months to a year working full time on blindness >> training. If you can get that sort of training, that's great. I wish >> programs like that were available in Canada. However, I believe we should >> advocate for a world where such extensive training is not necessary. My >> reason for thinking this is that not everyone is going to be capable of >> receiving and benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a >> general principle, in universal design, which means designing things in such >> a way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are >> required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this >> position. >> >> I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these lines >> in "The Right to Live in the World". >> http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html >> >> But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for thinking >> that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the fuller explanation >> for another day. >> >> "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and use and >> forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for the wheel >> chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use of flights of >> stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the installation of such >> barriers would not do the trick. A more constructive and affirmative >> approach is required. Buildings and facilities must be erected according to >> a design taking account of the disabled and making buildings and facilities >> accessible to them and functional for them." >> >> So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to enter a >> building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, what tenBroek >> advocates is building things in a way that makes them accessible to disabled >> people and functional for them. I would argue, too, that tenBroek would not >> have included the caveat: accessible to them and functional for them, >> assuming they are sufficiently trained in the skills of blindness. Here is >> another passage. >> >> "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law up to >> date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that blind >> pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will carry, and >> that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the cane user in time >> for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes no further than the >> facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life require. >> Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use of >> the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use canes. >> What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One is >> entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley case, 'a >> high degree of skill and care because none but the most foolhardy would >> venture to go out alone without having that skill and exercising that >> care.'" >> >> I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the percentage of >> blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect he would have >> encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not simply to assume that >> all blind people will be so trained. The right to live in the world, I'm >> suggesting, is not and should not be limited only to those who have received >> proper training. >> >> Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting >> individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm not sure >> I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting to hear what >> sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on accessible pedestrian >> signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the general session. Here's the >> exact quote. >> >>> "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian signals >>> are meant to make audible output for blind people... that those sounds are >>> not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's not obnoxious beeping, >>> that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." >> >> There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can be >> useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious and >> demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB position was >> that, and I'm quoting again, >> >> "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because they >> add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to traffic >> becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex intersections >> where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic patterns." >> http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm >> >> I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, and when >> they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're also not useful >> only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, unless heavy north-south >> traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as complex. >> And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around me. >> >> Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly trained >> blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother installing those >> signals that might make crossing streets safer for some blind people, >> especially because, quoting again, >> >> "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we do not >> need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." >> http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm >> >> What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety of >> factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or absence >> of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the threshold for >> something's not being necessary should be set very high. I would also say >> that the response to misunderstandings about the installation of APSs should >> be met with campaigns to educate the public, rather than with refusing >> potentially useful changes to the environment on the grounds that some >> people might misinterpret why those changes were made. >> >> I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about individual and >> environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. >> >> For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit delete a >> while back. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>> >>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>> toward both of these goals? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>> >>>> Tyler: >>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>> agree >>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>> campus >>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>>> I >>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>> churches, >>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>>> the >>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>> slightly >>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>> that >>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>> the >>>> same core beliefs. >>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>> because >>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>> disagrees >>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>> what >>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>> shun >>>> you. >>>> >>>> Marc Workman: >>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>>> do >>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>> absolutely >>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>> because >>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>> those >>>> barriers. >>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>> Quite >>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>> colored >>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>> me. >>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>> before" >>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>> and >>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>> not >>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>> that >>>> way. >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>> dreams >>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>> reach >>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>> life >>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>> me >>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>> need >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>> >>>> Justin Salisbury >>>> >>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>> Class of 2012 >>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>> East Carolina University >>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>> >>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>> change >>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 19:11:51 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:11:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege References: <22580881.1342890508666.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00c101cd6774$afd03ea0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law school? What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college by no means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what happends when your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn how to compensate. I think all these technologies we have is great, but I think we depend on it a bit to much! I think this is something that should be explored with the leaders in the federation, is what was it like when their were no computers. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels discouraged > from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I was > overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I believe > your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor should we > discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If she > wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize with her > because I struggled with research too; all long complex articles. Most > were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the database > was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they could skim > for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she said books > were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print > periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff > is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i > could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not always > reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of > college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff is > done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the mac. I > believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those issues with > rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and fight to get > out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- >>From: RJ Sandefur >>Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >> >>Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with out a >>mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of >>college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not college >>material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're >>saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a >>doctorate >>level class RJ! >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Beth" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >> >> >>> Brandon, >>> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and >>> papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question >>> and >>> articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't >>> be >>> downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that >>> got on my nerves in college. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a >>> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. >>> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. >>> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you >>> around. >>> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play >>> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might >>> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >>> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >>> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >>> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >>> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >>> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >>> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >>> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >>> probablyget one-to-one training. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >>> rehab to do this. >>> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >>> understand >>> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >>> practice >>> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >>> either >>> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >>> easily >>> build up on. >>> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go >>> to a >>> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >>> public >>> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >>> on-screen >>> tutorials? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >>> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >>> me from wanting a PC so much. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >>> you should >>> talk to July Deeden. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "David Andrews" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>> if I >>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>> what >>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>> apply to >>> schools just like anyone else? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because I'm >>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >>> as "no >>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >>> because I >>> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >>> training, but >>> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed >>> out or >>> avenged. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>> should >>> just >>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>> this in >>> order >>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>> that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>> the >>> adaptive >>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor >>> know >>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>> college and >>> if >>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>> computer. >>> Because >>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>> failure, you >>> really >>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>> support >>> in >>> the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>> you want >>> in >>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>> have a >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>> for you. >>> They >>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>> moving >>> and >>> firm >>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, >>> even >>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>> is >>> the key >>> and >>> independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>> apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>> assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>> and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>> the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>> their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>> people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >>> 40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >>> si.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >>> ndefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.n > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 19:26:56 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 14:26:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey! Welcome back to the list, Jamie! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Jamie Principato wrote: > It's always capitalized in Print. > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Joshua Lester < > jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote: > >> When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, >> capitalized! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: >> > Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, >> > >> > I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't want >> to >> > discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if you're not >> > interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious and demeaning >> > birds, then this isn't for you. >> > >> > Justin wrote, >> > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >> do >> > you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >> absolutely >> > amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >> > because >> > there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >> > those >> > barriers. >> > >> > I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down >> > barriers. >> > I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this >> year's >> > convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. >> > >> > I think my message contained three concerns: >> > >> > 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of >> > removing physical barriers. >> > >> > 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept it >> and >> > move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." >> > >> > 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less >> > likely >> to >> > put as much effort into removing the barrier. >> > >> > The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating >> things >> > quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I shouldn't have >> said >> > anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper sentiment behind what >> Sean >> > wrote, an actual disagreement between my position and that of NFB >> > philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping >> point. >> > >> > Justin wrote, >> > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >> before" >> > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >> > in >> > retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >> and >> > myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >> not >> > saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >> that >> > way. >> > >> > A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect >> for >> > Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list for a >> while, >> > though, and we have actually had similar discussions in the past >> > multiple >> > times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened every time, so I did >> not >> > intend to imply annoyance or frustration, even though I recognize it >> > came >> > across that way. >> > >> > Arielle wrote, >> > However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote >> universal >> > access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will >> take >> > time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >> also >> > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> barriers >> > we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> enroll >> > in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the >> > support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> instead >> > of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each >> > other >> as >> > mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of >> > these goals? >> > >> > To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're >> mutually >> > exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension between them >> > though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind people, the >> > others >> > having learned to deal with it, I think it's less likely that the >> majority >> > is going to be as interested in trying to remove that problem. I have >> > no >> > empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to >> me. >> > >> > Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority to >> deal >> > with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions about policy, >> when >> > advocating for various positions, we shouldn't ignore that minority. >> > The >> > goal should be to design a world in which blind people can get about >> without >> > first having to spend nine months to a year working full time on >> blindness >> > training. If you can get that sort of training, that's great. I wish >> > programs like that were available in Canada. However, I believe we >> > should >> > advocate for a world where such extensive training is not necessary. My >> > reason for thinking this is that not everyone is going to be capable of >> > receiving and benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a >> > general principle, in universal design, which means designing things in >> such >> > a way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are >> > required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this >> > position. >> > >> > I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these >> lines >> > in "The Right to Live in the World". >> > >> http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html >> > >> > But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for thinking >> > that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the fuller >> explanation >> > for another day. >> > >> > "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and use >> and >> > forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for the >> > wheel >> > chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use of flights >> > of >> > stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the installation of >> such >> > barriers would not do the trick. A more constructive and affirmative >> > approach is required. Buildings and facilities must be erected >> > according >> to >> > a design taking account of the disabled and making buildings and >> facilities >> > accessible to them and functional for them." >> > >> > So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to >> enter a >> > building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, what >> tenBroek >> > advocates is building things in a way that makes them accessible to >> disabled >> > people and functional for them. I would argue, too, that tenBroek would >> not >> > have included the caveat: accessible to them and functional for them, >> > assuming they are sufficiently trained in the skills of blindness. Here >> is >> > another passage. >> > >> > "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law >> up to >> > date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that blind >> > pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will carry, >> and >> > that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the cane user in >> time >> > for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes no further than the >> > facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life >> require. >> > Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use >> > of >> > the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use >> > canes. >> > What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One is >> > entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley >> > case, >> 'a >> > high degree of skill and care because none but the most foolhardy would >> > venture to go out alone without having that skill and exercising that >> > care.'" >> > >> > I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the percentage >> of >> > blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect he would have >> > encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not simply to assume >> > that >> > all blind people will be so trained. The right to live in the world, >> > I'm >> > suggesting, is not and should not be limited only to those who have >> received >> > proper training. >> > >> > Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting >> > individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm not >> sure >> > I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting to hear >> > what >> > sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on accessible >> > pedestrian >> > signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the general session. Here's >> > the >> > exact quote. >> > >> >> "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian >> >> signals >> >> are meant to make audible output for blind people... that those sounds >> are >> >> not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's not obnoxious >> beeping, >> >> that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." >> > >> > There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can be >> > useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious and >> > demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB position >> > was >> > that, and I'm quoting again, >> > >> > "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because >> they >> > add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to >> > traffic >> > becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex >> intersections >> > where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic >> > patterns." >> > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm >> > >> > I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, and >> when >> > they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're also not >> useful >> > only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, unless heavy >> north-south >> > traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as >> > complex. >> > And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around >> > me. >> > >> > Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly trained >> > blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother installing >> those >> > signals that might make crossing streets safer for some blind people, >> > especially because, quoting again, >> > >> > "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we do >> not >> > need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." >> > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm >> > >> > What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety >> > of >> > factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or >> absence >> > of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the threshold >> > for >> > something's not being necessary should be set very high. I would also >> > say >> > that the response to misunderstandings about the installation of APSs >> should >> > be met with campaigns to educate the public, rather than with refusing >> > potentially useful changes to the environment on the grounds that some >> > people might misinterpret why those changes were made. >> > >> > I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about >> > individual >> and >> > environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. >> > >> > For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit >> > delete >> a >> > while back. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Marc >> > On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >> >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >> >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >> >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >> >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >> >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >> >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >> >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >> >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >> >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >> >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >> >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >> >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >> >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >> >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >> >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >> >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >> >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >> >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >> >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >> >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >> >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >> >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >> >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >> >> toward both of these goals? >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >> >>> >> >>> Tyler: >> >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >> >>> fully >> >>> agree >> >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >> hesitation >> >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >> >>> campus >> >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >> >>> and >> >>> I >> >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >> >>> churches, >> >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >> in >> >>> the >> >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >> >>> slightly >> >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >> >>> understand >> >>> that >> >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >> >>> to >> >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >> >>> the >> >>> same core beliefs. >> >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >> >>> something >> >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >> >>> because >> >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >> >>> disagrees >> >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >> >>> of >> >>> what >> >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >> >>> shun >> >>> you. >> >>> >> >>> Marc Workman: >> >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >> >>> Why >> >>> do >> >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >> >>> absolutely >> >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >> >>> because >> >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >> >>> those >> >>> barriers. >> >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >> colored >> >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >> >>> don't >> >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >> >>> Quite >> >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >> >>> colored >> >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >> >>> seek >> >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >> many, >> >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >> >>> me. >> >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >> >>> before" >> >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >> in >> >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >> >>> me >> >>> and >> >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >> >>> I'm >> >>> not >> >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >> >>> it >> >>> that >> >>> way. >> >>> >> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >> >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >> >>> dreams >> >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >> >>> reach >> >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >> >>> hope >> >>> life >> >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >> >>> to >> >>> me >> >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >> >>> need >> >>> it. >> >>> >> >>> Yours in Federationism, >> >>> >> >>> Justin Salisbury >> >>> >> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >> >>> Class of 2012 >> >>> B.A. in Mathematics >> >>> East Carolina University >> >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >>> >> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >> >>> change >> >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >> MEAD >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 19:29:41 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 14:29:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] spelling tenBroek was Re: NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <7CA39B2A-EBCB-45C0-8E63-0BB02AFE4344@gmail.com> References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> <7CA39B2A-EBCB-45C0-8E63-0BB02AFE4344@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow! Then, that's no surprise, because I've noticed other misspellings in our convention agendas. Oh well! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: > Joshua wrote, >> When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, >> capitalized! > > Then you've never seen it spelled correctly. Check out the NFB site where I > got the article > http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html > > Little T, big B. Oh yes, also important, he was born in my home province of > Alberta, Canada. That's apropos of nothing. I just like to point it out. > > Cheers, > > Marc >> n 2012-07-21, at 3:17 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, >> capitalized! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: >>> Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, >>> >>> I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't want >>> to >>> discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if you're not >>> interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious and demeaning >>> birds, then this isn't for you. >>> >>> Justin wrote, >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>> do >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>> absolutely >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>> because >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>> those >>> barriers. >>> >>> I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down barriers. >>> I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this >>> year's >>> convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. >>> >>> I think my message contained three concerns: >>> >>> 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of >>> removing physical barriers. >>> >>> 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept it >>> and >>> move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." >>> >>> 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less likely >>> to >>> put as much effort into removing the barrier. >>> >>> The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating >>> things >>> quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I shouldn't have >>> said >>> anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper sentiment behind what >>> Sean >>> wrote, an actual disagreement between my position and that of NFB >>> philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping >>> point. >>> >>> Justin wrote, >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>> and >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>> not >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>> that >>> way. >>> >>> A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect >>> for >>> Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list for a >>> while, >>> though, and we have actually had similar discussions in the past >>> multiple >>> times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened every time, so I did >>> not >>> intend to imply annoyance or frustration, even though I recognize it >>> came >>> across that way. >>> >>> Arielle wrote, >>> However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote >>> universal >>> access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will >>> take >>> time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>> also >>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>> barriers >>> we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>> enroll >>> in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the >>> support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>> instead >>> of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other >>> as >>> mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of >>> these goals? >>> >>> To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're >>> mutually >>> exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension between them >>> though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind people, the >>> others >>> having learned to deal with it, I think it's less likely that the >>> majority >>> is going to be as interested in trying to remove that problem. I have no >>> empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to >>> me. >>> >>> Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority to >>> deal >>> with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions about policy, >>> when >>> advocating for various positions, we shouldn't ignore that minority. The >>> goal should be to design a world in which blind people can get about >>> without >>> first having to spend nine months to a year working full time on >>> blindness >>> training. If you can get that sort of training, that's great. I wish >>> programs like that were available in Canada. However, I believe we >>> should >>> advocate for a world where such extensive training is not necessary. My >>> reason for thinking this is that not everyone is going to be capable of >>> receiving and benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a >>> general principle, in universal design, which means designing things in >>> such >>> a way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are >>> required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this >>> position. >>> >>> I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these >>> lines >>> in "The Right to Live in the World". >>> http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthedisabledinthelawoftorts.html >>> >>> But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for thinking >>> that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the fuller >>> explanation >>> for another day. >>> >>> "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and use >>> and >>> forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for the wheel >>> chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use of flights of >>> stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the installation of >>> such >>> barriers would not do the trick. A more constructive and affirmative >>> approach is required. Buildings and facilities must be erected according >>> to >>> a design taking account of the disabled and making buildings and >>> facilities >>> accessible to them and functional for them." >>> >>> So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to >>> enter a >>> building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, what >>> tenBroek >>> advocates is building things in a way that makes them accessible to >>> disabled >>> people and functional for them. I would argue, too, that tenBroek would >>> not >>> have included the caveat: accessible to them and functional for them, >>> assuming they are sufficiently trained in the skills of blindness. Here >>> is >>> another passage. >>> >>> "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law up >>> to >>> date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that blind >>> pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will carry, >>> and >>> that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the cane user in >>> time >>> for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes no further than the >>> facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life >>> require. >>> Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use >>> of >>> the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use canes. >>> What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One is >>> entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley case, >>> 'a >>> high degree of skill and care because none but the most foolhardy would >>> venture to go out alone without having that skill and exercising that >>> care.'" >>> >>> I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the percentage >>> of >>> blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect he would have >>> encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not simply to assume >>> that >>> all blind people will be so trained. The right to live in the world, I'm >>> suggesting, is not and should not be limited only to those who have >>> received >>> proper training. >>> >>> Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting >>> individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm not >>> sure >>> I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting to hear what >>> sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on accessible >>> pedestrian >>> signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the general session. Here's the >>> exact quote. >>> >>>> "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian >>>> signals >>>> are meant to make audible output for blind people... that those sounds >>>> are >>>> not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's not obnoxious >>>> beeping, >>>> that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." >>> >>> There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can be >>> useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious and >>> demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB position was >>> that, and I'm quoting again, >>> >>> "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because >>> they >>> add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to traffic >>> becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex >>> intersections >>> where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic >>> patterns." >>> http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm >>> >>> I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, and >>> when >>> they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're also not >>> useful >>> only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, unless heavy >>> north-south >>> traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as >>> complex. >>> And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around me. >>> >>> Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly trained >>> blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother installing >>> those >>> signals that might make crossing streets safer for some blind people, >>> especially because, quoting again, >>> >>> "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we do >>> not >>> need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." >>> http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm >>> >>> What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety >>> of >>> factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or >>> absence >>> of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the threshold for >>> something's not being necessary should be set very high. I would also >>> say >>> that the response to misunderstandings about the installation of APSs >>> should >>> be met with campaigns to educate the public, rather than with refusing >>> potentially useful changes to the environment on the grounds that some >>> people might misinterpret why those changes were made. >>> >>> I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about individual >>> and >>> environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. >>> >>> For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit delete >>> a >>> while back. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>> >>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>> toward both of these goals? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>> >>>>> Tyler: >>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>>> agree >>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>> hesitation >>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>> campus >>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>> and >>>>> I >>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>> churches, >>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>> in >>>>> the >>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>> slightly >>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>>> that >>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>> to >>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>> the >>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>> something >>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>> because >>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>> disagrees >>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>> of >>>>> what >>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>> shun >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>> Why >>>>> do >>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>> absolutely >>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>> because >>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>> those >>>>> barriers. >>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>> colored >>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>> don't >>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>> Quite >>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>> colored >>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>> seek >>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>> many, >>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>> me. >>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>> before" >>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>> in >>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>>> and >>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>>> not >>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>> it >>>>> that >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>> dreams >>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>> reach >>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>>> life >>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>> to >>>>> me >>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>> need >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>> >>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>> >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>> >>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>> MEAD >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Jul 21 19:31:01 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:31:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <00c101cd6774$afd03ea0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <22580881.1342890508666.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <00c101cd6774$afd03ea0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <500B0375.9050907@tysdomain.com> This is something I don't get. I don't think Beth needs a Mac, and I honestly think a lot of her problems are problems she's creating for herself. Maybe not intentionally, but "I can't do x because of y," sort of things. I also don't really agree with the "We need to do things without computers." If computers fail, we'll have way worse issues than how to finish a college paper. Just because Dr. Maurer may have had to chissle his papers on a slate doesn't mean we do now. Learn how to use the resources available and learn how to use them well. On 7/21/2012 1:11 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law > school? What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college > by no means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn > how to compensate. I think all these technologies we have is great, > but I think we depend on it a bit to much! I think this is something > that should be explored with the leaders in the federation, is what > was it like when their were no computers. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > >> Hi Rj, >> >> I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she >> wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels >> discouraged from it too. >> We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I >> was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I >> believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, >> nor should we discourage her from college. >> >> Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If >> she wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize >> with her because I struggled with research too; all long complex >> articles. Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the >> time the database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers >> mostly; they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy >> articles. Oh and she said books were an issue. Its true that the >> library's vast amount of print periodicals and books are not >> accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some >> great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed >> a schedule challenge though and were not always reliable. I >> definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of college. >> >> So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff >> is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the >> mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those >> issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school >> and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>> dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >>> >>> Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with >>> out a >>> mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of >>> college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not >>> college >>> material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but >>> you're >>> saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a >>> doctorate >>> level class RJ! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>> dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >>> >>> >>>> Brandon, >>>> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and >>>> papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the >>>> question and >>>> articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and >>>> can't be >>>> downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all >>>> that >>>> got on my nerves in college. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's >>>> at a >>>> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your >>>> case. >>>> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. >>>> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you >>>> around. >>>> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play >>>> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might >>>> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >>>> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >>>> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >>>> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >>>> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >>>> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >>>> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >>>> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >>>> probablyget one-to-one training. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >>>> rehab to do this. >>>> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >>>> understand >>>> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >>>> practice >>>> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >>>> either >>>> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >>>> easily >>>> build up on. >>>> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go >>>> to a >>>> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >>>> public >>>> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >>>> on-screen >>>> tutorials? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >>>> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >>>> me from wanting a PC so much. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >>>> you should >>>> talk to July Deeden. RJ >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "David Andrews" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm >>>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >>>> as "no >>>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >>>> because I >>>> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >>>> training, but >>>> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed >>>> out or >>>> avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should >>>> just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in >>>> order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the >>>> adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor >>>> know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and >>>> if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. >>>> Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you >>>> really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support >>>> in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want >>>> in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. >>>> They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and >>>> firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key >>>> and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >>>> si.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >>>> ndefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.n >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 19:36:36 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:36:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] Questionnaire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cd6778$24d09bc0$6e71d340$@gmail.com> See below. -----Original Message----- From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Herdt Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:32 PM To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org Subject: [Blindtlk] Questionnaire Hello, We'd love to get your opinions on some web usability issues. A couple classmates and I are taking a course this summer in human-computer interaction at the University of Pennsylvania. We're investigating various accessibility tools, and we're hoping we can get some feedback from users with experience using screen reader and/or voice recognition software. If you have time to answer our 13-question survey, we would greatly appreciate it! All responses are entirely anonymous. Survey link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGJOdGZtMnJKTW9lWXZBOVc yZmZrcGc6MQ -- Chris Herdt MCIT Student, University of Pennsylvania _______________________________________________ blindtlk mailing list blindtlk at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%4 0gmail.com From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 21:35:57 2012 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:35:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a job application. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cindy, The only way you can begin to answer this is to ask yourself what you would want to see if you were hiring someone with an 11-month gap in their resume. Put yourself in the employer's situation. How would you want a potential employee to handle this? Let's assume that attending a training center for blindness skills is not something an employer or HR manager understands or wants to see on a resume. In this situation, there probably is NOT a short way to convey that you went to a great center and learned great skills. You're going to have to get innovative and creative. You said you could not have worked very much if given the opportunity while living at BLIND, Inc., but I disagree. I'm sure you've gained some transferable skills during the past 11 months even if not in an office setting. Does BLIND Inc. require their students to do some sort of community service activity during their training? If not, and you didn't volunteer or become active in the community during your year of training, maybe you held a position in the NFB's student division. You can work with this experience to fit a resume and show recent experience. For example, under "Work Experience," you might list "President" or "Secretary, Association of Blind Students." Then you can use bullet points to show, not tell, what you did: "Developed a website for students to interact with others." "Increased participation by 55% through Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and Email postings." "Researched venues and helped plan a three-day conference in San Diego." You get the idea. You only need mention blindness in passing here, and this does not automatically indicate that you are blind yourself. Instead, this show's that you've been actively doing something during the past 11 months and counts as experience without mentioning blindness training. You may have to rework the headings a little on your resume to make this fit, but this fill's a gap in your resume. You never want giant gaps in a resume, but it's possible to fill gaps with something relevant, even if that something seems irrelevant or far-fetched to you. I think you dismissed the cover letter too soon. Your cover letter narrates your resume in more detail and can be used to tell a story about something you might not otherwise want to discuss. Your cover letter can address your qualifications for the position and your gap in employment at the same time. Depending on the organization, the company culture, the responsibilities of the position and the person most likely to read your resume, your cover letter can (briefly) mention blindness training and how increased training and confidence will help you adequately meet the expectations of the position. Don't just tell them you went for blindness training. Explain to them that you made the decision to learn quality travel skills as a blind person because you understand this job requires extensive travel and that your training taught you to independently and efficiently navigate airports, train stations and hotels without vision. This can be tricky and it's more likely to work with small organizations rather than large corporations, but it is not impossible to show in your cover letter that attending a blindness training center helped you identify and develop skills needed for the job. If you're working with an online application system that does not allow you to upload supplemental documents, weaving blindness training into the body of your cover letter and not including it on your resume might be your best option. Your resume can highlight your volunteer experience you've held during the past year and your cover letter can touch on the blindness training. Also, reconsider your use of supplemental documents at all. Why do you think they're necessary? If I were an HR manager, I'd rather someone creatively demonstrate their work gap or disability without asking me to slog through additional information. If resumes and cover letters spend only a few moments in front of someone, how much time and attention do you honestly think additional and unnecessary documents are going to receive? The bottom line is to avoid the blindness training as much as possible, not only because blindness can be a hindrance when finding a job, but because BLIND Inc., unlike your university education, probably has nothing to do with the job you are applying for. If you feel like you can't avoid the center because you didn't gain any other experience during your year of training, creatively work your training into the cover letter or resume by either explaining how your training helped you develop skills for the job or by explaining what you did during training that kept your skills relevant and up-to-date. If none of this works, or if you think the organization would be receptive to your training, you could fully disclose your training and boldly discuss how you maturely recognized the need to gain total proficiency in blindness skills so you could effectively handle all the responsibilities of the job. These same types of suggestions are used by students who travel abroad after school. If they don't write travel blogs and stories or actually volunteer internationally, they can modify their experience to fit a resume: "Developed budgeting and planning skills while interacting with citizens from over a dozen foreign countries." "Cultivated language and communication skills through contact with people around the world." The idea is to be sincere and completely honest while showing creativity and initiative. The difference is that blindness comes with a negative stereotype and travel usually does not. But you can make this work. You just might need to brainstorm to figure out how. Brice On 7/20/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. > > If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work > in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, > from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have > not worked very much even if given the opportunity. > > Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always > been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in > person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing > some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of > bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some > “excuse.” > > But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting > me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. > But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on > my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included > supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a > certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of > information and give the website and contact information if they are > so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in > employment require explanation. > > But right now, I am working with an online application with no place > to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a > resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job > qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, > I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep > submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always > wondering what I could be doing better. > > Thoughts? > > If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and > learned great skills, what is it? > > I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are > still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding > strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this > message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding > other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another > subject line. > > Thanks. > > Cindy > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > -- Brice Smith North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 22:02:48 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:02:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a job application. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17803FF1-E923-41A7-AD0E-98B963E47C96@gmail.com> What a great post! I no I learned from this post about being creative. Thanks, Brice! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2012, at 5:35 PM, Brice Smith wrote: > Cindy, > > The only way you can begin to answer this is to ask yourself what you > would want to see if you were hiring someone with an 11-month gap in > their resume. Put yourself in the employer's situation. How would you > want a potential employee to handle this? > > Let's assume that attending a training center for blindness skills is > not something an employer or HR manager understands or wants to see on > a resume. In this situation, there probably is NOT a short way to > convey that you went to a great center and learned great skills. > You're going to have to get innovative and creative. > > You said you could not have worked very much if given the opportunity > while living at BLIND, Inc., but I disagree. I'm sure you've gained > some transferable skills during the past 11 months even if not in an > office setting. Does BLIND Inc. require their students to do some sort > of community service activity during their training? If not, and you > didn't volunteer or become active in the community during your year of > training, maybe you held a position in the NFB's student division. You > can work with this experience to fit a resume and show recent > experience. For example, under "Work Experience," you might list > "President" or "Secretary, Association of Blind Students." Then you > can use bullet points to show, not tell, what you did: "Developed a > website for students to interact with others." "Increased > participation by 55% through Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and Email > postings." "Researched venues and helped plan a three-day conference > in San Diego." You get the idea. You only need mention blindness in > passing here, and this does not automatically indicate that you are > blind yourself. Instead, this show's that you've been actively doing > something during the past 11 months and counts as experience without > mentioning blindness training. You may have to rework the headings a > little on your resume to make this fit, but this fill's a gap in your > resume. You never want giant gaps in a resume, but it's possible to > fill gaps with something relevant, even if that something seems > irrelevant or far-fetched to you. > > I think you dismissed the cover letter too soon. Your cover letter > narrates your resume in more detail and can be used to tell a story > about something you might not otherwise want to discuss. Your cover > letter can address your qualifications for the position and your gap > in employment at the same time. Depending on the organization, the > company culture, the responsibilities of the position and the person > most likely to read your resume, your cover letter can (briefly) > mention blindness training and how increased training and confidence > will help you adequately meet the expectations of the position. > > Don't just tell them you went for blindness training. Explain to them > that you made the decision to learn quality travel skills as a blind > person because you understand this job requires extensive travel and > that your training taught you to independently and efficiently > navigate airports, train stations and hotels without vision. This can > be tricky and it's more likely to work with small organizations rather > than large corporations, but it is not impossible to show in your > cover letter that attending a blindness training center helped you > identify and develop skills needed for the job. If you're working with > an online application system that does not allow you to upload > supplemental documents, weaving blindness training into the body of > your cover letter and not including it on your resume might be your > best option. Your resume can highlight your volunteer experience > you've held during the past year and your cover letter can touch on > the blindness training. Also, reconsider your use of supplemental > documents at all. Why do you think they're necessary? If I were an HR > manager, I'd rather someone creatively demonstrate their work gap or > disability without asking me to slog through additional information. > If resumes and cover letters spend only a few moments in front of > someone, how much time and attention do you honestly think additional > and unnecessary documents are going to receive? > > The bottom line is to avoid the blindness training as much as > possible, not only because blindness can be a hindrance when finding a > job, but because BLIND Inc., unlike your university education, > probably has nothing to do with the job you are applying for. If you > feel like you can't avoid the center because you didn't gain any other > experience during your year of training, creatively work your training > into the cover letter or resume by either explaining how your training > helped you develop skills for the job or by explaining what you did > during training that kept your skills relevant and up-to-date. If none > of this works, or if you think the organization would be receptive to > your training, you could fully disclose your training and boldly > discuss how you maturely recognized the need to gain total proficiency > in blindness skills so you could effectively handle all the > responsibilities of the job. > > These same types of suggestions are used by students who travel abroad > after school. If they don't write travel blogs and stories or actually > volunteer internationally, they can modify their experience to fit a > resume: "Developed budgeting and planning skills while interacting > with citizens from over a dozen foreign countries." "Cultivated > language and communication skills through contact with people around > the world." The idea is to be sincere and completely honest while > showing creativity and initiative. The difference is that blindness > comes with a negative stereotype and travel usually does not. But you > can make this work. You just might need to brainstorm to figure out > how. > > Brice > > On 7/20/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. >> >> If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work >> in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, >> from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have >> not worked very much even if given the opportunity. >> >> Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always >> been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in >> person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing >> some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of >> bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some >> “excuse.” >> >> But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting >> me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. >> But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on >> my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included >> supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a >> certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of >> information and give the website and contact information if they are >> so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in >> employment require explanation. >> >> But right now, I am working with an online application with no place >> to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a >> resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job >> qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, >> I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep >> submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always >> wondering what I could be doing better. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and >> learned great skills, what is it? >> >> I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are >> still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding >> strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this >> message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding >> other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another >> subject line. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Cindy >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Brice Smith > North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations > Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Jul 21 22:03:34 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:03:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Message-ID: 551480f3-32ab-4698-af39-b12ab2102511@samobile.net I occurs to me that how the building is upkept says much about a center's view of its work and the consumers it serves. I don't recommend going to a center that's tucked away in a ritzy part of town as it's probably not realistic for most of us, but it's also not helpful to the psyche of center consumers to be in a neighborhood with violence in it. And the bugs? The food? All that violateshealth codes. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > No wonder they call it the "Braille Jail!" > Blessings, Joshua > On 7/16/12, Dave Webster wrote: >> hi Amber. I'm Dave. I'm from california and I went to wsb as well. >> I can defenitely agree with yo on the food. I can't even count how many >> times I got sick from that food. I mean full blown sick. I have bipolar >> and I don't know what it is about that building but for some reason it >> causes symptoms of depression. I guess because it is like a hospital in >> some ways. its an old building and going down some of the halls are just >> scary for me. Like I say I don't know what it is about that building but >> that building being inside of it really depresses me. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:55 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >> Oh no! >> Call the Arkansas State Police! >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>> Ian, >>> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >>> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not >>> color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >>> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >>> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >>> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >>> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very >> reliable. >>> The facts: >>> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >>> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >>> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >>> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >>> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >>> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >>> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >>> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >>> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >>> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >>> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >>> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >>> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >>> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >>> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >>> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >>> but they do not work very well. >>> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >>> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >>> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except >>> they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled >>> down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>> could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not >>> come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>> that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a >>> particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take >>> issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or >>> refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are >> most comfortable for us. >>> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >>> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a >>> great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >>> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >>> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >>> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >>> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, >>> hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>> female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>> control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>> and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >> you're home!" >>> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >>> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >>> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >>> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >>> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >> acceptable regardless of setting. >>> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >>> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >>> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >>> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >>> another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big >>> going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >>> could never suggest that someone attend here. >>> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >>> that I wish you all the best. >>> Amber R. Herrin >>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>> Impossible is not a word >>> It's just a reason >>> For someone not to try >>> Everybody's scared to death >>> When they decide to take that step >>> Out on the water >>> It'll be alright >>> Life is so much more >>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>> You will find your way >>> If you keep believing" >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> Ian, >>> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >>> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >>> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >>> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >>> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >>> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >>> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >>> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out >>> of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >>> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >>> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >>> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >> 45,000 or more. >>> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known >>> as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >>> director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said >>> earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >>>> From: Ian Perrault >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>> Hi >>>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >>>> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >>>> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >>>> an environment. >>>> Ian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >>>> h >>>> oo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >>> edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>> ents.pccua.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne >> t >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 21 22:07:22 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:07:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <500b2769.c92f320a.7c2b.ffffd093SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b2769.c92f320a.7c2b.ffffd093SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Wow! Resurrecting this thread? Hmmm! I agree with you, BTW! I have a question for those of you that are attendees now. Is Tom, (the activity director,) still at WSB? Thanks, Joshua On 7/21/12, Jedi wrote: > I occurs to me that how the building is upkept says much about a > center's view of its work and the consumers it serves. I don't > recommend going to a center that's tucked away in a ritzy part of town > as it's probably not realistic for most of us, but it's also not > helpful to the psyche of center consumers to be in a neighborhood with > violence in it. And the bugs? The food? All that violateshealth codes. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> No wonder they call it the "Braille Jail!" >> Blessings, Joshua > >> On 7/16/12, Dave Webster wrote: >>> hi Amber. I'm Dave. I'm from california and I went to wsb as >>> well. >>> I can defenitely agree with yo on the food. I can't even count how many >>> times I got sick from that food. I mean full blown sick. I have >>> bipolar >>> and I don't know what it is about that building but for some reason it >>> causes symptoms of depression. I guess because it is like a hospital in >>> some ways. its an old building and going down some of the halls are >>> just >>> scary for me. Like I say I don't know what it is about that building >>> but >>> that building being inside of it really depresses me. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:55 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >>> Oh no! >>> Call the Arkansas State Police! >>> Blessings, Joshua > >>> On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Ian, > >>>> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >>>> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not >>>> color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >>>> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >>>> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >>>> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >>>> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be >>>> very >>> reliable. > >>>> The facts: > >>>> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >>>> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >>>> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >>>> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >>>> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >>>> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >>>> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >>>> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >>>> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >>>> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >>>> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >>>> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >>>> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >>>> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >>>> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >>>> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >>>> but they do not work very well. > >>>> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >>>> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >>>> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except >>>> they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled >>>> down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not >>>> come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a >>>> particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take >>>> issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that >>>> are >>> most comfortable for us. > >>>> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >>>> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a >>>> great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > >>>> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >>>> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >>>> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >>>> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, >>>> hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>> you're home!" > >>>> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >>>> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >>>> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >>>> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >>>> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >>> acceptable regardless of setting. > >>>> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >>>> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >>>> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >>>> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >>>> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >>>> could never suggest that someone attend here. > >>>> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >>>> that I wish you all the best. > >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try > >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright > >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >>>> Ian, >>>> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >>>> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >>>> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >>>> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >>>> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >>>> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >>>> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >>>> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out >>>> of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >>>> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >>>> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >>>> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >>> 45,000 or more. >>>> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known >>>> as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >>>> director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said >>>> earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>> like a breeze among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller > > >>>> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >>>>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> Hi >>>>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>>>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>>>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>>>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>>>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>>>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >>>>> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >>>>> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >>>>> an environment. >>>>> Ian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >>>>> h >>>>> oo.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >>>> edu > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne >>> t > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 22:15:10 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:15:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs In-Reply-To: <500b2796.875f320a.1d01.ffffd1caSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b2796.875f320a.1d01.ffffd1caSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <86884C3A-7EFA-42F5-AEE5-57A223DCD798@gmail.com> Did you get my last email that I sent you? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Jedi wrote: > I occurs to me that how the building is upkept says much about a center's view of its work and the consumers it serves. I don't recommend going to a center that's tucked away in a ritzy part of town as it's probably not realistic for most of us, but it's also not helpful to the psyche of center consumers to be in a neighborhood with violence in it. And the bugs? The food? All that violateshealth codes. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> No wonder they call it the "Braille Jail!" >> Blessings, Joshua > >> On 7/16/12, Dave Webster wrote: >>> hi Amber. I'm Dave. I'm from california and I went to wsb as well. >>> I can defenitely agree with yo on the food. I can't even count how many >>> times I got sick from that food. I mean full blown sick. I have bipolar >>> and I don't know what it is about that building but for some reason it >>> causes symptoms of depression. I guess because it is like a hospital in >>> some ways. its an old building and going down some of the halls are just >>> scary for me. Like I say I don't know what it is about that building but >>> that building being inside of it really depresses me. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:55 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >>> Oh no! >>> Call the Arkansas State Police! >>> Blessings, Joshua > >>> On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Ian, > >>>> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >>>> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not >>>> color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >>>> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >>>> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >>>> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >>>> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very >>> reliable. > >>>> The facts: > >>>> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >>>> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >>>> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >>>> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >>>> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >>>> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >>>> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >>>> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >>>> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >>>> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >>>> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >>>> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >>>> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >>>> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >>>> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >>>> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >>>> but they do not work very well. > >>>> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >>>> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >>>> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except >>>> they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled >>>> down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not >>>> come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a >>>> particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take >>>> issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are >>> most comfortable for us. > >>>> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >>>> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a >>>> great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. > >>>> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >>>> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >>>> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >>>> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, >>>> hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>> you're home!" > >>>> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >>>> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >>>> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >>>> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >>>> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >>> acceptable regardless of setting. > >>>> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >>>> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >>>> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >>>> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. > >>>> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >>>> could never suggest that someone attend here. > >>>> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >>>> that I wish you all the best. > >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try > >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright > >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs > >>>> Ian, >>>> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >>>> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >>>> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >>>> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >>>> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >>>> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >>>> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >>>> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out >>>> of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >>>> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >>>> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >>>> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >>> 45,000 or more. >>>> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known >>>> as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >>>> director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said >>>> earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. > >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>> like a breeze among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller > > >>>> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > >>>>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> Hi >>>>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>>>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>>>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>>>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>>>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>>>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >>>>> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >>>>> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >>>>> an environment. >>>>> Ian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >>>>> h >>>>> oo.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >>>> edu > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne >>> t > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Jul 21 22:17:52 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:17:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Message-ID: 84abc619-6579-4e8b-acd6-01d4ff6fe82d@samobile.net I don't understand the sign-out thing. The staff of the LCB never asked students (in the two times I spent extended time there for training and my O and M degree) to sign out or in. It was just expected that, since everyone there are adults, they could handle themselves. when students went out for independent travel lessons, the teachers would go looking for them only if they were gone for a longer amount of time than would be necessary under normal circumstances. And if, while making a pass by the student, they seemed okay, were on track, and getting near the school, then the teachers would let the students get on with things and debrief the route as usual. Most of the time though, travel instructors and their students had each other's cell numbers for checking in with each other as needed. After school, the staff honestly had no idea where students were. Again, it was just assumed that, like any other adult, they could handle themselves. It was also understood that the students looked out for each other as needed and the staff would only intervene if the situation called for it. Otherwise, the staff of the LCB firmly believed that blind adults are, well, adults and don't need anyone to look after them as though they were teenagers. So in summary, I think the sign-in/out procedure says a lot about how the center views their students: are they viewed as people needing someone to watch over them, or are they adults there to learn a new set of skills to maintain their independence? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Brandon, > I'm not saying you let them know where you are; just signing in and out. > They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. > You may not know where you're going, good point. I agree about the transit > thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save money by buying cheap > land. > Since training centers need to account for everyone , I can see why they due > that. They might have a legal obligation to know if you are on or off > property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to do with that. When we had > a drill at college, they took attendance before everyone left. It was a > community college though and may be less common at universities. > It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students in the best situation, > they would relocate to a safer area. > But I can understand the sign out thing. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind people > would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I was at a > program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a guy found a > dead body at a bus stop when I was there... > Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with good > public transportation, NOT LA! > Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? That's > what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living on my > own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call me... In a > new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so most of my outings > will say something like "exploring" or "taking a walk." Of course if I'm > staying any extended time at a place where my phone is going to be off for > most of the time, I should let someone know where I am, but I go everywhere > in my area and it would just become too much to tell someone where I am at > all times. > Thanks, > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Dave, > Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational > program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational > tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to house > a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive > because the director should want students to get out and do their own thing. > There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers more. > Its nfb list after all. > Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world > services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're right > it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such as > cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the > things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little > rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone > could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that > people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get arrested > right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center for > specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of > negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in > dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their > own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am a > proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, > but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training > centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply > because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a > center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling > on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you > really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think > dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still use > on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street > at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel > class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing > uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and Mississippi > twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual cooking > and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really practice > those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead > it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are doing > things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out > of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really make > people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole other > issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider > whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your > decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, > but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give me > a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > t > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 22:29:38 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:29:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500ae731.03ed320a.5fa9.3c15@mx.google.com> References: <500ae731.03ed320a.5fa9.3c15@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <291629638098370213@unknownmsgid> I'm guessing you should find a way to show them that you are likely to succeed in college this time. Many of us probably believe you and it's true that just because things didn't go well the first time it doesn't mean that the second time won't work out either. But after all their goal is to get you a job and they would be the ones to pay your tuition. Maybe people who have more experience dealing with rehab (I have none...) can give you suggestions on how to make a strong point that you are now ready to succeed in college? I thing you are getting a little obsessed with them buying a Mac for you and that's making you lose focus on what's actually important. Convince them that you are able to go to college first, and then try to make them purchase a Mac for you if you need it. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Beth wrote: > How could I fight the assessments? I don't understand how I should fight THAT. I do have bipolar after all, and they want behavioral changes. They're so obsessed with THAT and not the fact that I'm a disgrace to my family. I'm sorry. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:08:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels discouraged from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor should we discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If she wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize with her because I struggled with research too; all long complex articles. Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she said books were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not always reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Sat Jul 21 22:50:31 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:50:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers References: <20120721221900910.YZAC5014@cdptpa-imta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000d01cd6793$3c34d040$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, And since most people these days have cell phones if the center needs to locate a particular student chances they're only a cell phone away. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers I don't understand the sign-out thing. The staff of the LCB never asked students (in the two times I spent extended time there for training and my O and M degree) to sign out or in. It was just expected that, since everyone there are adults, they could handle themselves. when students went out for independent travel lessons, the teachers would go looking for them only if they were gone for a longer amount of time than would be necessary under normal circumstances. And if, while making a pass by the student, they seemed okay, were on track, and getting near the school, then the teachers would let the students get on with things and debrief the route as usual. Most of the time though, travel instructors and their students had each other's cell numbers for checking in with each other as needed. After school, the staff honestly had no idea where students were. Again, it was just assumed that, like any other adult, they could handle themselves. It was also understood that the students looked out for each other as needed and the staff would only intervene if the situation called for it. Otherwise, the staff of the LCB firmly believed that blind adults are, well, adults and don't need anyone to look after them as though they were teenagers. So in summary, I think the sign-in/out procedure says a lot about how the center views their students: are they viewed as people needing someone to watch over them, or are they adults there to learn a new set of skills to maintain their independence? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Brandon, > I'm not saying you let them know where you are; just signing in and out. > They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. > You may not know where you're going, good point. I agree about the transit > thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save money by buying cheap > land. > Since training centers need to account for everyone , I can see why they > due > that. They might have a legal obligation to know if you are on or off > property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to do with that. When we > had > a drill at college, they took attendance before everyone left. It was a > community college though and may be less common at universities. > It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students in the best situation, > they would relocate to a safer area. > But I can understand the sign out thing. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind > people > would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I was at a > program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a guy found a > dead body at a bus stop when I was there... > Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with good > public transportation, NOT LA! > Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? > That's > what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living on > my > own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call me... In a > new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so most of my > outings > will say something like "exploring" or "taking a walk." Of course if I'm > staying any extended time at a place where my phone is going to be off for > most of the time, I should let someone know where I am, but I go > everywhere > in my area and it would just become too much to tell someone where I am at > all times. > Thanks, > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Dave, > Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational > program or independent living? I've heard good things about the vocational > tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to > house > a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive > because the director should want students to get out and do their own > thing. > There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers > more. > Its nfb list after all. > Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Webster > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and > wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world > services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. > World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're > right > it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such > as > cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the > things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little > rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone > could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that > people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get > arrested > right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original > Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Hi all, > I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center > for > specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of > negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. > I > will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in > dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their > own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am > a > proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, > but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad training > centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply > because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending a > center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and traveling > on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, you > really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think > dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from the > experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still > use > on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the street > at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel > class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing > uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and > Mississippi > twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. > Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual > cooking > and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really > practice > those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. > Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead > it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are > doing > things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and out > of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really > make > people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole > other > issue. > So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider > whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in your > decision. > BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, > but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give > me > a call at > 602-502-2255 > There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone > conversation will probably be more helpful than email. > Best, > Arielle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > t > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 22:51:21 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:51:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500b327d.c30f320a.193d.4cfe@mx.google.com> Look, if it weren't for computers, I wouldn't be sending this email, and BrailleNotes wouldn't be invented and stuff, and so on and so forth. I'm sick and tired of people saying, "You don't need that" when in truthh you actually do. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" Tyler, The balloons on a PC that say "click this balloon to fix the problem are the biggest issue for me and then, when people are actually trying to help me maintain the PC, like to keep viruses off of it, see the errors, I don't even realize they're there. Thanks to all those errors, my hard drive got fried. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" They won't budge on the no college thing. I wish they'd just eat themselves silly on this fact. They don't realize that if I don't succeed in college, my family will take control of me and move me back to Florida, where I will ultimately be at the bottom of the totem pole. Sorry to say this, but it's true. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra wrote: How could I fight the assessments? I don't understand how I should fight THAT. I do have bipolar after all, and they want behavioral changes. They're so obsessed with THAT and not the fact that I'm a disgrace to my family. I'm sorry. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <500b327d.c30f320a.193d.4cfe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth. When your computer stops working right, use the Perkins Brailler, or slate and stylus. Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: > Look, if it weren't for computers, I wouldn't be sending this > email, and BrailleNotes wouldn't be invented and stuff, and so on > and so forth. I'm sick and tired of people saying, "You don't > need that" when in truthh you actually do. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ,"National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:11:51 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to > law school? > What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college by > no > means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when > your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn how to > compensate. I > think all these technologies we have is great, but I think we > depend on it a > bit to much! I think this is something that should be explored > with the > leaders in the federation, is what was it like when their were no > computers. > RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex > and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged > from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its > tough. I was > overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe > your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor > should we > discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. > If she > wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize > with her > because I struggled with research too; all long complex > articles. Most > were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the > database > was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they > could skim > for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she > said books > were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print > periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. > Most stuff > is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any > sources i > could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not > always > reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging > aspects of > college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how > stuff is > done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I > believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with > rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and > fight to get > out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing > with out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's > part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not > college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but > you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing > a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. > Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the > question > and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and > can't > be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's > all that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if > it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close > your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal > government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will > push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and > play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I > might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly > go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 23:06:36 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:06:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500b327f.c30f320a.193d.4cff@mx.google.com> References: <500b327f.c30f320a.193d.4cff@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7528073506669034889@unknownmsgid> Beth, The balloons are accessible. You didn't know that before and that's why you were having problems. Depending on which screen reader you're using you access the balloons in one way or another, but you should just figure out how to do it as soon as possible so that you can forget about this problem and go on. I have a Mac and I love it for many reasons. It's ok to have a preference for something, but if you already have a computer that works I don't see how you can convince rehab to get a Mac for you at this point... As for all the viruses you are getting this is a problem that sighted students have too. Keep your antivirus up to date and don't browse any questionable sites! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Beth wrote: > Tyler, > The balloons on a PC that say "click this balloon to fix the problem are the biggest issue for me and then, when people are actually trying to help me maintain the PC, like to keep viruses off of it, see the errors, I don't even realize they're there. Thanks to all those errors, my hard drive got fried. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:31:01 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > This is something I don't get. I don't think Beth needs a Mac, and I > honestly think a lot of her problems are problems she's creating for > herself. Maybe not intentionally, but "I can't do x because of y," sort > of things. > > I also don't really agree with the "We need to do things without > computers." If computers fail, we'll have way worse issues than how to > finish a college paper. Just because Dr. Maurer may have had to chissle > his papers on a slate doesn't mean we do now. Learn how to use the > resources available and learn how to use them well. > On 7/21/2012 1:11 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law > school? What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college > by no means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn > how to compensate. I think all these technologies we have is great, > but I think we depend on it a bit to much! I think this is something > that should be explored with the leaders in the federation, is what > was it like when their were no computers. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I > was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, > nor should we discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If > she wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize > with her because I struggled with research too; all long complex > articles. Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the > time the database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers > mostly; they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy > articles. Oh and she said books were an issue. Its true that the > library's vast amount of print periodicals and books are not > accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some > great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed > a schedule challenge though and were not always reliable. I > definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff > is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school > and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with > out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not > college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but > you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the > question and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and > can't be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all > that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's > at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your > case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Jul 21 23:08:33 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:08:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500b3281.c30f320a.193d.4d00@mx.google.com> References: <500b3281.c30f320a.193d.4d00@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500B3671.3000806@tysdomain.com> Beth, You keep bringing a lot of stuff into this. You've gotten pointless messages like "When computer fails, use a perkins," but there's been a lot of good info here as well. Ultimately, you have the ability to do what you want. Let go of the mac idea, get a pc and make your case for college. Online databases are an excellent resource for getting research info, Adobe is a lot easier to use with more recent versions of Jaws, and in the case that you can't read the pdf, add Kurzweil to your list so you can run the PDF through there. You keep going back to why you can't do things, as opposed to why you could do them. Focus on the positive points. Have you mentioned college again recently to VOC? If not, try it monday. Tell your councilor you want to go back and why, and see what they say. I'd love to hear the response. On 7/21/2012 4:51 PM, Beth wrote: > They won't budge on the no college thing. I wish they'd just eat > themselves silly on this fact. They don't realize that if I don't > succeed in college, my family will take control of me and move me back > to Florida, where I will ultimately be at the bottom of the totem > pole. Sorry to say this, but it's true. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:29:38 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and > whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > I'm guessing you should find a way to show them that you are likely to > succeed in college this time. Many of us probably believe you and it's > true that just because things didn't go well the first time it doesn't > mean that the second time won't work out either. But after all their > goal is to get you a job and they would be the ones to pay your > tuition. > Maybe people who have more experience dealing with rehab (I have > none...) can give you suggestions on how to make a strong point that > you are now ready to succeed in college? I thing you are getting a > little obsessed with them buying a Mac for you and that's making you > lose focus on what's actually important. Convince them that you are > able to go to college first, and then try to make them purchase a Mac > for you if you need it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 21, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Beth wrote: > > How could I fight the assessments? I don't understand how I should > fight THAT. I do have bipolar after all, and they want behavioral > changes. They're so obsessed with THAT and not the fact that I'm a > disgrace to my family. I'm sorry. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:08:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I > was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, > nor should we discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If she > wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize with > her because I struggled with research too; all long complex articles. > Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the > database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; > they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh > and she said books were an issue. Its true that the library's vast > amount of print periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a > reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some great info is not. I > wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed a schedule challenge > though and were not always reliable. I definately found papers one of > the more challenging aspects of college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff > is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school > and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with > out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Jul 21 23:11:18 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:11:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computer for college In-Reply-To: <500b327f.c30f320a.193d.4cff@mx.google.com> References: <500b327f.c30f320a.193d.4cff@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500B3716.2010007@tysdomain.com> I fixed the subject since it was driving me insane. The balloons can be gotten to--usually they're on the system tray, if you're using jaws use windows+b, or insert+f11 for a list. Your problem with Viruses is well, your problem. Get Microsoft Security Essentials and don't download and run a ton of stuff. Believe it or not, it's possible to get a virus on the mac too. Actually, they're generally the first to be hacked at the black-hat deal. On 7/21/2012 4:51 PM, Beth wrote: > Tyler, > The balloons on a PC that say "click this balloon to fix the problem > are the biggest issue for me and then, when people are actually trying > to help me maintain the PC, like to keep viruses off of it, see the > errors, I don't even realize they're there. Thanks to all those > errors, my hard drive got fried. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:31:01 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > This is something I don't get. I don't think Beth needs a Mac, and I > honestly think a lot of her problems are problems she's creating for > herself. Maybe not intentionally, but "I can't do x because of y," sort > of things. > > I also don't really agree with the "We need to do things without > computers." If computers fail, we'll have way worse issues than how to > finish a college paper. Just because Dr. Maurer may have had to chissle > his papers on a slate doesn't mean we do now. Learn how to use the > resources available and learn how to use them well. > On 7/21/2012 1:11 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law > school? What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college > by no means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn > how to compensate. I think all these technologies we have is great, > but I think we depend on it a bit to much! I think this is something > that should be explored with the leaders in the federation, is what > was it like when their were no computers. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I > was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, > nor should we discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If > she wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize > with her because I struggled with research too; all long complex > articles. Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the > time the database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers > mostly; they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy > articles. Oh and she said books were an issue. Its true that the > library's vast amount of print periodicals and books are not > accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some > great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed > a schedule challenge though and were not always reliable. I > definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff > is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school > and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with > out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not > college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but > you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the > question and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and > can't be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all > that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's > at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your > case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; > he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 23:15:54 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:15:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto do to get a working computer for college Message-ID: <000001cd6796$c7edd3e0$57c97ba0$@gmail.com> Dear Beth, Quite the contrary to what you've said about your screen reader not being able to read help balloons. Both JAWS and NVDA indeed can read these balloons when they appear and just as they appear on the screen; they are part of the notification area. Maybe one reason why you can't read them is that perhaps you aren't sitting at your computer when they happen, but it is true, JAWS can read help balloons if this is the screen reader you are using. Now, if you have an old version of JAWS, there's probably another reason, but other than that, I see no excuse for you to be able to quit using a PC just because you cannot read those help balloons. If you can please tell me what version of JAWS and / or windows you are using, and the specifications of your computer, we'll be able to clarify some misunderstanding. In addition, regarding the Mac vs. the PC, many, many employers are sticking with using PCs. Even in job listings, you get things like, under the qualifications, "must have experience in Windows applications, Microsoft this and Microsoft that..." and it is most likely that the PC is most common on the workplace and in school settings than the mac. Maybe this is why your rehabilitation agency won't buy you a mac, because they know these facts. Hope this helps you a bit. Humberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 3:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Tyler, The balloons on a PC that say "click this balloon to fix the problem are the biggest issue for me and then, when people are actually trying to help me maintain the PC, like to keep viruses off of it, see the errors, I don't even realize they're there. Thanks to all those errors, my hard drive got fried. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" I went to CCB and thankfully graduted. The thing about the NFB > centers is that they may or may not accept people who have more > than one disability, particularly mental disabilities/illnesses. > This is because the activities are overwhelming and the work is > tough. I'm not sure how I can say this, but it took me going to > CCB to get my parents to stop breathing down my neck about how > incapable I was/could have been. > Beth > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:45:25 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Choosing a Center > Hi all, > Many VR agencies will tell clients that they can only send them > to > in-state or "in-contract" centers for training. However, this is > only > partially true. VR agencies prefer to send clients to centers > with > which they have established contracts, which are usually in-state > centers. But by law VR agencies are required to support a > client's > choice of center if that choice is justified, even if the center > is > out-of-state or out-of-contract. I don't know the legal specifics > but > several Federation leaders can provide assistance with this, > including > Jim Omvig, Amy Phelps, Fred Schroeder and Edward Bell. If you are > having problems getting a VR counselor to respect your informed > choice, talk with your state president and try to get connected > with > one of these people. > I have experience with this process because I was in the odd > situation > of trying to get my state to send me to LCB for training instead > of > CCB. They were willing to send me to CCB (where they had a > contract) > but not LCB. I wanted to go to LCB because I had been offered a > chance > to do some work with the blindness research institute at > Louisiana > Tech and I felt this opportunity was critical to my career > development > (and it turned out to be quite helpful after all). I had to make > that > case to my VR agency and though my counselor supported my > decision, > his supervisors did not and it took quite a lot of discussion and > letters from Dr. Bell and from my state president, but they > finally > complied and I went to LCB. For most of you who are wanting to go > to > any NFB center rather than an in-state one (and not choosing > between > NFB centers like I did), there are many reasons you can give for > the > superiority of NFB centers: off-campus living, comprehensive > training, > blind mentors/instructors, use of sleepshades if you have partial > sight, and probably others I am forgetting. > Arielle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 21 23:54:02 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:54:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: <000d01cd6793$3c34d040$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <20120721221900910.YZAC5014@cdptpa-imta02.mail.rr.com> <000d01cd6793$3c34d040$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Agreed. Is there any reason why a center needs to keep up with students' whereabouts any more than a college dorm needs to keep up with its residents' whereabouts? One could argue that if a college student gets hurt, the university or dormitory could be held liable for that as well. When I lived in the dorm I think we were required to sign out or at least tell our dorm residential advisor (RA) if we were leaving for an extended period, like a weekend or vacation. This seemed fair to me and I always abided by that rule. But I would never want to live somewhere where I had to let an authority figure know every time I wanted to head to the grocery store, friend's house, bar or anywhere else for just a few hours. If a center student doesn't show up to class, or a roommate reports them missing, then the staff will attempt to track the student down. Best, Arielle On 7/21/12, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > And since most people these days have cell phones if the center needs to > > locate a particular student chances they're only a cell phone away. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:17 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > > > I don't understand the sign-out thing. The staff of the LCB never asked > students (in the two times I spent extended time there for training and > my O and M degree) to sign out or in. It was just expected that, since > everyone there are adults, they could handle themselves. when students > went out for independent travel lessons, the teachers would go looking > for them only if they were gone for a longer amount of time than would > be necessary under normal circumstances. And if, while making a pass by > the student, they seemed okay, were on track, and getting near the > school, then the teachers would let the students get on with things and > debrief the route as usual. Most of the time though, travel instructors > and their students had each other's cell numbers for checking in with > each other as needed. After school, the staff honestly had no idea > where students were. Again, it was just assumed that, like any other > adult, they could handle themselves. It was also understood that the > students looked out for each other as needed and the staff would only > intervene if the situation called for it. Otherwise, the staff of the > LCB firmly believed that blind adults are, well, adults and don't need > anyone to look after them as though they were teenagers. So in summary, > I think the sign-in/out procedure says a lot about how the center views > their students: are they viewed as people needing someone to watch over > them, or are they adults there to learn a new set of skills to maintain > their independence? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> Brandon, >> I'm not saying you let them know where you are; just signing in and out. >> They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. >> You may not know where you're going, good point. I agree about the >> transit >> thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save money by buying cheap >> land. >> Since training centers need to account for everyone , I can see why they >> due >> that. They might have a legal obligation to know if you are on or off >> property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to do with that. When we >> had >> a drill at college, they took attendance before everyone left. It was a >> community college though and may be less common at universities. > >> It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students in the best >> situation, >> they would relocate to a safer area. >> But I can understand the sign out thing. > >> Ashley > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > >> I totally Agree, training centers should be in the areas where blind >> people >> would be most likely to live, not the cheapest place to live. I was at a >> program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't too bad, a guy found a >> dead body at a bus stop when I was there... >> Also, I am a firm believer in training centers being in a town with good >> public transportation, NOT LA! > >> Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your child's cell phone? >> That's >> what my parents did/do when I was at a training program and now living on >> >> my >> own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am you can call me... In a >> new city I'm probably going to not know what's around, so most of my >> outings >> will say something like "exploring" or "taking a walk." Of course if I'm >> staying any extended time at a place where my phone is going to be off >> for >> most of the time, I should let someone know where I am, but I go >> everywhere >> in my area and it would just become too much to tell someone where I am >> at >> all times. >> Thanks, > >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > >> Dave, >> Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you there for a vocational >> program or independent living? I've heard good things about the >> vocational >> tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills teaching. Its sad to >> house >> a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems counter productive >> because the director should want students to get out and do their own >> thing. >> There is a tendency to exaggerate here because people like nfb centers >> more. >> Its nfb list after all. >> Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? >> Ashley > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dave Webster >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > >> Hi. My name is Dave. I actually have been to both centers lcb and >> wsb which is world services for the blind which formally was lions world >> services for the blind. I attended lcb back when Joanne was director. >> World services gane me good training in a vocational skill but you're >> right >> it didn't give good training in personal management skills. things such >> as >> cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all that great. One of the >> things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very very bad area of Little >> rock. I would not want to go out on my own especially at night. Noone >> could pay me enough money to do that. its such a bad enough area that >> people have heard gun shots on campus. People have seen others get >> arrested >> right there in front of the school so. Just my thoughts.-----Original >> Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > >> Hi all, >> I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its quality as a center >> for >> specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I have heard lots of >> negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing as what Amber related. >> >> I >> will, however, comment on the fact that WSB apparently houses students in >> dormitories and does not give students any opportunities to prepare their >> own meals or, presumably, to travel very far between home and campus. I am >> >> a >> proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB centers for many reasons, >> but one of the biggest differences I can see between good and bad >> training >> centers is whether or not students live on or off campus. This is simply >> because, in my experience, at least half of what I gained from attending >> a >> center were things I learned off campus by cooking, cleaning and >> traveling >> on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a residential center, >> you >> really need to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, and I think >> dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are able to learn from >> the >> experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired at LCB that I still >> use >> on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and confidently cross the >> street >> at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a few times in travel >> class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I acquired in crossing >> uncontrolled intersections came from needing to cross Bonner and >> Mississippi >> twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my off-campus apartment. >> Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to improve nonvisual >> cooking >> and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how you can really >> practice >> those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, but that's about it. >> Training isn't about just trying something out once or twice, but instead >> it's about practice and repetition, which is best gotten when you are >> doing >> things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on a regular basis and >> out >> of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in and out must really >> make >> people less motivated to venture out on their own--but that's a whole >> other >> issue. >> So if you are struggling between center options, I'd urge you to consider >> whether the living situation is on or off campus as a major factor in >> your >> decision. >> BTW, I think someone might have posted recently with questions about LCB, >> but I don't recall who it was. If you still have questions, you can give >> me >> a call at >> 602-502-2255 >> There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience and a live phone >> conversation will probably be more helpful than email. >> Best, >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne >> t > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 00:04:58 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:04:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500b43bd.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37d@mx.google.com> Not for writing college papers. Just saying Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Look, if it weren't for computers, I wouldn't be sending this email, and BrailleNotes wouldn't be invented and stuff, and so on and so forth. I'm sick and tired of people saying, "You don't need that" when in truthh you actually do. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" ,"National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if the hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something without knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up with. I also am really concerned because ... rumor has it that JAWS 14 is coming out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the reasons that we can't afford it and such. I would never want JAWs plus a PC for the simple fact that Rehab has to foot the bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get a PC with my own money, but it has to have a screen reader on it. Third party apps? They drive me nuts! Beth From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 00:05:01 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:05:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500b43c1.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37e@mx.google.com> rue. So true. Sighted students have viruses on theiir computers, but I'm also worried about other things along with viruses. I don't know whaut I'm going to do as soon as I find out I'm failing college for the third time. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra wrote: Tyler, The balloons on a PC that say "click this balloon to fix the problem are the biggest issue for me and then, when people are actually trying to help me maintain the PC, like to keep viruses off of it, see the errors, I don't even realize they're there. Thanks to all those errors, my hard drive got fried. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <500b43c2.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500B44CD.1010803@tysdomain.com> Jaws is not the only screen reader. There's NVDA, which is free. Also, DVR gets Jaws a lot cheaper since they tend to buy bulk licenses of Jaws for all their clients, so it's not that big of a deal. If the harddrive fails, it fails, again, something that could happen on the mac. Just make sure that whatever laptop you buy has a warranty on it for repair. On 7/21/2012 6:05 PM, Beth wrote: > Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if the > hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something without > knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up with. I also > am really concerned because ... rumor has it that JAWS 14 is coming > out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the reasons that we can't > afford it and such. I would never want JAWs plus a PC for the simple > fact that Rehab has to foot the bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get > a PC with my own money, but it has to have a screen reader on it. > Third party apps? They drive me nuts! > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 00:17:36 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:17:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500b43bd.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37d@mx.google.com> References: <500b43bd.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I don't use a Mac, but I'm pretty sure that hard-to-find error messages could appear on a Mac too, and that other problems like viruses and hard drive failures could happen on a Mac as well as on a PC. So I'm not convinced that there's a compelling reason for rehab to get you one at this point. Another thing to consider: In college, you should have access to student computing services. If you have a laptop, whether PC or Mac, you can bring it to student computing to have them check it out if there's a problem. Since I am not tech savvy, I had my student computing office help me clear one computer of excess programs that were slowing it down, and had them upgrade my operating system on a different PC computer. Best, Arielle On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: > Not for writing college papers. > Just saying > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:00:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results > andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth. > When your computer stops working right, use the Perkins Brailler, > or > slate and stylus. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: > Look, if it weren't for computers, I wouldn't be sending this > email, and BrailleNotes wouldn't be invented and stuff, and so > on > and so forth. I'm sick and tired of people saying, "You don't > need that" when in truthh you actually do. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ,"National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:11:51 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to > law school? > What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college > by > no > means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when > your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn how to > compensate. I > think all these technologies we have is great, but I think we > depend on it a > bit to much! I think this is something that should be explored > with the > leaders in the federation, is what was it like when their were > no > computers. > RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex > and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged > from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its > tough. I was > overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe > your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, > nor > should we > discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. > If she > wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize > with her > because I struggled with research too; all long complex > articles. Most > were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the > database > was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they > could skim > for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she > said books > were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print > periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. > Most stuff > is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any > sources i > could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not > always > reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging > aspects of > college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how > stuff is > done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I > believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with > rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and > fight to get > out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing > with out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's > part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're > not > college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, > but > you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing > a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. > Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the > question > and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format > and > can't > be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's > all that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if > it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close > your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal > government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will > push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and > play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I > might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in > getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed > in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, > I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly > go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's > keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm > sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be > pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, > you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to > get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the > best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the > experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need > to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing > anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart > before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 00:23:43 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:23:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff In-Reply-To: <500B44CD.1010803@tysdomain.com> References: <500b43c2.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37f@mx.google.com> <500B44CD.1010803@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Also, you can get a program called Dropbox at www.dropbox.com which allows you to share files with other people or easily back up your important files by simply putting them in your Dropbox folder. The Dropbox folder is stored both on your desktop and on an Internet server, so if your computer fails and you have to get a new one or replace the hard drive, just re-download Dropbox to your new computer and you can instantly get back all your old files you stored in Dropbox. I like it because my stuff is always backed up and I don't have to remind myself to run a backup procedure. You can get 2 gb for free, which is enough to store all my important school stuff through all of college and grad school. Arielle On 7/21/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Jaws is not the only screen reader. There's NVDA, which is free. Also, > DVR gets Jaws a lot cheaper since they tend to buy bulk licenses of Jaws > for all their clients, so it's not that big of a deal. If the harddrive > fails, it fails, again, something that could happen on the mac. Just > make sure that whatever laptop you buy has a warranty on it for repair. > On 7/21/2012 6:05 PM, Beth wrote: >> Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if the >> hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something without >> knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up with. I also >> am really concerned because ... rumor has it that JAWS 14 is coming >> out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the reasons that we can't >> afford it and such. I would never want JAWs plus a PC for the simple >> fact that Rehab has to foot the bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get >> a PC with my own money, but it has to have a screen reader on it. >> Third party apps? They drive me nuts! >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 00:36:02 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:36:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: bcc0aa2d-fb3f-44f3-ae88-9f409727cfc4@samobile.net Marc, You're right that some of our NFB philosophy does reflect values generally held in American society. Wether these are right or wrong doesn't matter to me in this very instant, but i think it is fair to say that the membership of our organization certainly reflects the variety of individuals in the U,S, generally. for that reason, it is definitely worth saying that Sean's take on NFB philosophy is as individual to him as it is to anyone's. Furthermore, I think that sean's ideas about the role of universal design reflects sean himself and his own values generally. But I think it is unfair to say that he doesn't consider others' views and needs. And though you're correct to say that his position on the social grid may affect his level of awareness of certain issues, it is not correct to assume that he has not made himself aware through various means or that he altogether does not consider the needs and issues of others. As to the overall discussion of universal design within the organization, I think it really varies. Some people are more interested in environmental access issues than others. And I also think the organizations views overall on the matter have changed and are changing because our world is changing and has changed over time. Here's my take on universal design. I think it's a great idea in theory, but its application gets messed up by, especially in the case of blindness, what various groups and individuals think we blind need and don't need. And I think much of this need is determined by the barriers various people think are imposed by blindness. As for me, I think most things in life are already accessible to me as a blind person as they are. Yes, it took some training for me to make that happen. but it wasn't like it took years and years of training. Though my training covered specific types of barriers and how to overcome them, much of my training was spent convincing myself through multiple trials and mentoring that I have the creativity and wherewithall to adapt to my world for the most part. And I think that's part of the problem. Many of us in the blindness community (including the professionals who serve us) believe that we blind (the average blind) don't have that wherewithall. I don't think that's correct and seriously underestimates what we can do for ourselves in a variety of life areas, not just in this particular domain. And frankly, many universal design ideas come with the notion that blindness makes it difficult for an individual to make sense of their environment because of the lack of sight alone. Now before you get all hot and bothered by thinking that I'm against universal design, let me say that I do support including universal design in technology such as kiosks, e-book readers, computers, point of sale terminals, etc. These are devices included in daily life that really do present a challenge to us. Yes, we could overcome this barrier by shopping elsewhere, by getting help when necessary, by getting our consumables from firms who don't use inaccessible technology, etc. But that's kind of ridiculous in my view. The technology's there. Companies such as Apple have proven that, when designed from the ground up, accessible technology doesn't constitute a huge financial hardship. I also support accessible pedestrian signals where they would be helpful, but not at every damn block! Video description? Sure. Accessible currency? Sure. Do I think not having video description or accessible currency is discriminatory? No, not necessarily. And that's partially what I think Sean means when he says that there's a huge difference between moving on and whining. Blind folks have gotten along without descriptions and bumps on money for some time without too much trouble. We've even developed some of our own tools and means for getting around these problems. But does that mean we're fundamentally against these new accessibility features? Of course not! I acknowledge, and so do others sharing views similar to mine, that these features do make our lives a littel more convenient, and that's not necessarily a bad thing so long as we can still adapt to situations where these conveniences are not yet available. And there really are some barriers that universal design helps with. I think of braille signs. I can't tell which bathroom is which without going in and finding out the hard way. I can't tell which room is which unless I ask people in these rooms or near them. Braille signs help me overcome these barriers. Without a beep or a voice telling me which floor I'm on, I wouldn't know unless I had some way of counting them as the elevator rises or if I get out of the elevator and find out through exploration. By then, the elevator's gone if it's not the floor I want and I have to catch the next one. But if it doesn't beep or something telling me whether or not the thing is going up or down, I guess I'll have to find out the hard way. All this is to say that universal design really does help me as a blind person, but I don't support design features that presume I can't think or do for myself. I'd much rather prefer that the money spent on unnecessary features gets spent on training blind people or on developing accessibility features that can be taylored to the needs of various individuals without annoying others. Respectfully, Jedi REspectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello Sean, > As I was reading, I was wondering why the emphasis was entirely on > attitudes with no mention of physical/design barriers, and then I get > to the last point and realize why. The barriers aren't the problem, > it's our failure to simply accept them and move on that's the problem. > Sean wrote, >> we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine that >> things aren't fair. > Or, a third option, we can do something to change what isn't fair, call > something an injustice when it's an injustice and do something to eliminate it. > We've had similar discussions before, so I don't expect to change your > mind, but maybe someone else will be persuaded, and I'm not all that > tired anyway.. I will say that I think you do reflect a common attitude > that partly constitutes NFB philosophy, and it's probably the one > aspect of this philosophy that I think is mistaken. > I think I get it — the whole pull yourself up by the bootstraps > attitude (very American) — there's value in that, but I think it tends > to come from a place of privilege. Going out on a dangerous limb, Sean, > guessing white, male, middle class, well educated, heterosexual, no > other significant physical or psychological variations. Even if I'm > completely wrong on most of this, I can tell you're well educated and > intelligent. My point is only that it is easier to say we should just > suck it up and move on from such a place of relative privilege. The > danger of just sucking it up and moving on is that you might not be as > motivated to change things to help out those who aren't able to suck it > up and move on. Personally, I'm aiming for a world that's as inclusive > and accessible as possible to all blind people, not just the creative, > educated ones. So if there's a barrier that I myself can get around, > that won't stop me from pointing it out and trying to eliminate it. > Simply going around it, however, makes me more likely not to think > about it and consequently not to do anything about it. > There is value in providing blind people with tools for dealing with > injustice and encouraging them to use these tools. We live in an unjust > world. What I reject is the false dichotomy of either accepting the > injustice or whining about it. We can and should not simply "accept it > and move on", but actively work to eliminate injustice where ever we find it. > Regards, > Marc > On 2012-07-17, at 11:38 PM, wrote: >> Tyler, >> Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in >> fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about >> blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of thinking >> about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB >> philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated before, >> do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to embrace >> this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than >> does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it >> down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on >> blindness is: >> 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, >> productive and fulfilling life. >> 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations >> and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general public >> and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind >> individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness itself. >> 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one characteristic >> I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the fact, >> say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. >> 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to do >> so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate in >> the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By >> extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind >> individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. >> And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view >> blindness, I think it's worth saying: >> Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to >> get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? Absolutely. >> Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my >> sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that there >> are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for >> remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are not >> fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to >> accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to >> work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's >> life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine >> that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, >> being blind happens to be one of them. >> I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others >> think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and >> discussion. >> Take care, >> Sean >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 00:44:23 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:44:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences Message-ID: <500b4d13.0a52650a.5907.ffff9f5b@mx.google.com> Hello to everyone in Colorado Our thoughts and prayers go out to those victims who lost loved ones in the terrible shooting. I'm truly sorry for the loss you've suffered and the pain you've endured. My prayers are with the many families who are trying to locate loved ones. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 00:49:08 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:49:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: 8f644252-189e-42df-8040-d97cae553aef@samobile.net According to an audio record of the day the resolution failed, it was because, according to Michael Byington, their subject matter expert for this resolution, the sub-minimum wage issue does not impact the blind; those who are paid sub-minimum wages have multiple disabilities including blindness where blindness is not the primary disability. Also, subminimal wages are paid to those with severe disabilities. And finally, Byington says that one hundred percent of NIB establishments pay at least minimum wage to their blind production workers. The original writer of the resolution was also not present to defend it when it was being discussed by the committee. That is why the resolution failed. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Josh, > Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you > should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been > things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. > On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Arielle: that was a great post. >> I just have one question about this. >> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >> resolution at their convention? >> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >> federally mandated minimum wage. >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>> toward both of these goals? >>> Arielle >>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>> Tyler: >>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>> agree >>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>> campus >>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>> churches, >>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>>> the >>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>> slightly >>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>> that >>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >>>> same core beliefs. >>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>> because >>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>> disagrees >>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>> what >>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >>>> you. >>>> Marc Workman: >>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>>> do >>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>> absolutely >>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >>>> barriers. >>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>> Quite >>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>> colored >>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>> before" >>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>> and >>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>> not >>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>> that >>>> way. >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>> dreams >>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>> reach >>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>> life >>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>> me >>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>> need >>>> it. >>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>> Justin Salisbury >>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>> Class of 2012 >>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>> East Carolina University >>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>> change >>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 00:57:09 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:57:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <8976123.1342918630158.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi RJ, Your response compares apples and oranges. In those days when Maurer went to school, computers did not exist! they typed on typewriters. Now you have to have a computer to turn in any work: papers, homework, take home tests, etc, etc. So we need computers; saying that they did it without them is well irrelevant because now a days any college has to have a computer to go to school. Now does Beth need a mac? I think not because if her windows pc is fine and most students use them, then she can too. To Josh and others saying use a perkins, you cannot do that to turn in work; a professor cannot read braille! Lets give realistic advice, people. Ashley -----Original Message----- >From: RJ Sandefur >Sent: Jul 21, 2012 3:11 PM >To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > >Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law school? >What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college by no >means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what happends when >your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn how to compensate. I >think all these technologies we have is great, but I think we depend on it a >bit to much! I think this is something that should be explored with the >leaders in the federation, is what was it like when their were no computers. >RJ >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto >dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > >> Hi Rj, >> >> I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she >> wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels discouraged >> from it too. >> We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I was >> overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I believe >> your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor should we >> discourage her from college. >> >> Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If she >> wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize with her >> because I struggled with research too; all long complex articles. Most >> were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the database >> was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they could skim >> for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she said books >> were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print >> periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff >> is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i >> could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not always >> reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of >> college. >> >> So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff is >> done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the mac. I >> believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those issues with >> rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and fight to get >> out of those assessments they want her to do. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: RJ Sandefur >>>Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >>> >>>Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with out a >>>mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of >>>college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not college >>>material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're >>>saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a >>>doctorate >>>level class RJ! >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Beth" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >>> >>> >>>> Brandon, >>>> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and >>>> papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question >>>> and >>>> articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't >>>> be >>>> downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all that >>>> got on my nerves in college. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at a >>>> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your case. >>>> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. >>>> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you >>>> around. >>>> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play >>>> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might >>>> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >>>> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >>>> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >>>> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >>>> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >>>> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >>>> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >>>> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >>>> probablyget one-to-one training. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >>>> rehab to do this. >>>> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >>>> understand >>>> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >>>> practice >>>> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >>>> either >>>> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >>>> easily >>>> build up on. >>>> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go >>>> to a >>>> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >>>> public >>>> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >>>> on-screen >>>> tutorials? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >>>> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >>>> me from wanting a PC so much. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >>>> you should >>>> talk to July Deeden. RJ >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "David Andrews" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm >>>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >>>> as "no >>>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >>>> because I >>>> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >>>> training, but >>>> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed >>>> out or >>>> avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should >>>> just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in >>>> order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the >>>> adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor >>>> know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and >>>> if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. >>>> Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you >>>> really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support >>>> in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want >>>> in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. >>>> They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and >>>> firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key >>>> and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >>>> si.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >>>> ndefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.n >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 22 01:08:10 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:08:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences In-Reply-To: <500b4d13.0a52650a.5907.ffff9f5b@mx.google.com> References: <500b4d13.0a52650a.5907.ffff9f5b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Great post! I'm also praying for the families. Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Hello to everyone in Colorado > > Our thoughts and prayers go out to those victims who lost loved > ones in the terrible shooting. I'm truly sorry for the loss > you've suffered and the pain you've endured. My prayers are with > the many families who are trying to locate loved ones. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 22 01:10:47 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:10:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <8976123.1342918630158.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <8976123.1342918630158.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ashley, your E-mail program is messed up again. Instead of your name showing up, your E-mail address does. Thanks, Joshua On 7/21/12, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi RJ, > > Your response compares apples and oranges. In those days when Maurer went to > school, computers did not exist! they typed on typewriters. Now you have to > have a computer to turn in any work: papers, homework, take home tests, etc, > etc. So we need computers; saying that they did it without them is well > irrelevant because now a days any college has to have a computer to go to > school. Now does Beth need a mac? I think not because if her windows pc is > fine and most students use them, then she can too. > > To Josh and others saying use a perkins, you cannot do that to turn in work; > a professor cannot read braille! Lets give realistic advice, people. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- >>From: RJ Sandefur >>Sent: Jul 21, 2012 3:11 PM >>To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and >> whatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >> >>Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law school? >> >>What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college by no >>means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what happends when >> >>your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn how to compensate. >> I >>think all these technologies we have is great, but I think we depend on it >> a >>bit to much! I think this is something that should be explored with the >>leaders in the federation, is what was it like when their were no >> computers. >>RJ >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto >>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >> >> >>> Hi Rj, >>> >>> I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she >>> wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels >>> discouraged >>> from it too. >>> We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I was >>> overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I believe >>> your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor should >>> we >>> discourage her from college. >>> >>> Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If she >>> wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize with her >>> because I struggled with research too; all long complex articles. Most >>> were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the database >>> >>> was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they could skim >>> >>> for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she said books >>> >>> were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print >>> periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff >>> >>> is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i >>> >>> could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not always >>> reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects >>> of >>> college. >>> >>> So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff is >>> done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the mac. I >>> believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those issues with >>> >>> rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and fight to get >>> >>> out of those assessments they want her to do. >>> >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: RJ Sandefur >>>>Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >>>> >>>>Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with out >>>> a >>>>mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of >>>>college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not >>>> college >>>>material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but you're >>>>saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a >>>>doctorate >>>>level class RJ! >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Beth" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>>dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brandon, >>>>> I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and >>>>> papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the question >>>>> and >>>>> articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and can't >>>>> >>>>> be >>>>> downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all >>>>> that >>>>> got on my nerves in college. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's at >>>>> a >>>>> sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your >>>>> case. >>>>> Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. >>>>> That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you >>>>> around. >>>>> May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play >>>>> with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might >>>>> talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do >>>>> all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while >>>>> working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my >>>>> employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting >>>>> money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in >>>>> the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it >>>>> because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd >>>>> have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd >>>>> probablyget one-to-one training. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need >>>>> rehab to do this. >>>>> As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab >>>>> understand >>>>> that you can become more proficient at a technology through >>>>> practice >>>>> and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you >>>>> either >>>>> have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can >>>>> easily >>>>> build up on. >>>>> Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go >>>>> to a >>>>> library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a >>>>> public >>>>> Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the >>>>> on-screen >>>>> tutorials? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of >>>>> proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping >>>>> me from wanting a PC so much. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie >>>>> you should >>>>> talk to July Deeden. RJ >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "David Andrews" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm >>>>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes >>>>> as "no >>>>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point >>>>> because I >>>>> want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment >>>>> training, but >>>>> whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed >>>>> out or >>>>> avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should >>>>> just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in >>>>> order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the >>>>> adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor >>>>> know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and >>>>> if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. >>>>> Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you >>>>> really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support >>>>> in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want >>>>> in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a >>>>> Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. >>>>> They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and >>>>> firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, >>>>> even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key >>>>> and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >>>>> si.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa >>>>> ndefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.n >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 01:11:49 2012 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:11:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: 9eda8c93-06c4-42b7-a9de-54bb925e6fd7@samobile.net Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with finding some employment opportunities or training or something like that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 01:15:03 2012 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:15:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: 36ccbf50-5e6b-4f8d-8c5c-c7d3e6f3ec22@samobile.net your family can't physically move you back to florida. This is Dave by the way. I live in a residential facility and my family they can come out here all they want but if they tried to move me back to california I wouldn't go with them. if they put their hands on you just call the police. my family isn't all that supportive either so. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 01:17:31 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:17:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity Message-ID: 16352778-8a16-40fe-8cdb-5c404da33e7e@samobile.net Kirt, Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you join NABS? Didn't you, at one point, seek national office in NABS? If this is the case, you might want to know that joining NABS, let alone serving as a national officer, means that you have joined the NFB. Or least, that is how I read the NABS constitution. For those NABS constitution scholars out there, is that the case? And if you have unknowingly joined the NFB Kirt, that also means that you have also signed the pledge. Ah, those dubious NFB-ers! *kidding* In all seriousness though, and provided I'm correct in my understanding, it may be helpful information to you, Kirt, and everyone, in order to engage in a manner congruent to your beliefs. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Julie, > Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for > it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be > limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's > something I just can not do. > And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last > convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, > even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states > with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen > in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly > clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or > wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. > Best, > Kirt > On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Hi all, >> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the >> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow >> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a >> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be >> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can >> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those >> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple >> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather >> close. >> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of >> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical >> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of >> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to >> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an >> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current >> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in >> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the >> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any >> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. >> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be >> extremely boring and would not make a good organization. >> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Justin, >>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >>> for the blind; to >>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >>> its constitution." >>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>> Dear List, >>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >>>> two >>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>>> opinions >>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone >>>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>>> that >>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member >>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>>> within >>>> us. >>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>>> organization >>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>>> much >>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >>>> our >>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >>>> not >>>> even have closets in which to sit. >>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I >>>> was >>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>>> people >>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >>>> Justin >>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>> Class of 2012 >>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>> East Carolina University >>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>> change >>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >> of Missouri recording secretary, >> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 01:22:18 2012 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:22:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers Message-ID: 2cee713d-3f86-4644-b312-9c0f163ae6d1@samobile.net hello its Dave. I actually live out here in arkansas in a residential facility because I have bipolar and it has been hard for me to live on my own. I sign in and out all the time like when I go to church i just simply let Regina or who ever is up at the front ofice know I'm leaving. usually since one of the guys from church come to pick me up anyhow they know whare I'm going so. I don't see the signing in and out thing to be a problem. I don't have to prove my independence to anyone. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 01:24:25 2012 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:24:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: 47b91033-3316-425b-8d7f-7bda25c607fa@samobile.net you could download nvda for the time being and then purchase system access with samnet and all of that. I have it and its great and doesn't cause any problems. its cheeper than jaws. From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 01:56:05 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:56:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500b53ec.b221320a.4169.ffffe840SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b53ec.b221320a.4169.ffffe840SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I'm a little late to the party on this thread, but I would like to add a few things. First, Beth, the issues you're having with viruses can easily be fixed. there are several free antivirus/antispyware programs with varying degrees of accessibility. Depending on the specs of your computer, I could make recommendations for ones you could run in tandem to reduce the likelihood of getting infected, but for now I'll just say that Microsoft Security Essentials is by far the most accessible one I've come across, and it works well, not to mention it doesn't severely hinder your system performance like some of the others do. I've heard that although it's less likely, viruses can infect Macs, too, so you're not 100% safe either way you go. As far as help balloons go, I agree, if you happen to not hear them, it can be hard to find out what was said. Sometimes they only show up in your system tray for a few seconds, and by the time you figure out something might be wrong, its gone. But if it's an issue of enough importance, the message is most likely going to show up again. Second, regarding rehab, I think you need to approach them in a more professional manner. It's not right that you have to act one specific way to get favorable results, but it is what it is. From your tone in some of these messages, you seem a little bit uninformed. I don't mean to be harsh or offensive, but perhaps you should do a little more research on pc's, Macs, and note-takers. Make a pros and cons list. Take it with you to your next rehab meeting, and calmly state your case. It's easier to do so if you have notes to look at, so you don't spin off course or forget your points. I know it's frustrating when people don't want to listen to you, and when they have preconceived notions of you, but if you want to get ahead, you unfortunately have to act kind of like you have no feelings, and that you're looking at your situation with complete objectivity. What's best for you? Clear the emotional clutter away and try to form a picture in your mind of what will make the biggest difference in your life. On a related note, and again I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm curious. Why have you told rehab about your being bipolar? I would imagine that makes it easier for them to bully you around and scare you. Of course that's not right, but people with mental illnesses get taken advantage of much more often than people with disabilities do. They were, and still are in some cases, the ones subjected to deplorable conditions in institutions and prisons. I'm not saying that's you, but it does change the perspective of those who are in positions of authority over you. People have all kinds of stereotypes in their heads about what it means to be mentally ill, and most of them aren't pretty. With all that said, I have depression, but I've never told my rehab counselor about it. Why? Because I don't want to be subjected to even more unfair treatment. I have other reasons too which are more personal, but that's the main one. Of course, you may have had an equally strong reason for telling them, and I'm not here to judge. I'm simply asking to try to gain a better understanding of your situation since I don't know you, but I want to help. About the use of a computer versus the good ol' days when people rode donkeys to school and slates were considered hip new technology? I'm kidding, of course. But in all seriousness, it's neither here nor there. It's just a different way of doing things. Telling someone to buckle down and do things because hey, everybody else had it so much harder is counterproductive, not to mention snide and a bit degrading. I have nothing but respect for people who made it through those times, not the least bit because not only was the technology more primitive, but because there were still many barriers being broken down for the blind. On the other hand, were they able to look into the future and say, "gee, I sure would want one of these newfangled computers with a screen reader and 20 games to play?" Of course not! So please, a couple of you should think before you speak. On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: > Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my > rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division > services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with > finding some employment opportunities or training or something like > that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm > actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse > for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 02:00:53 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:00:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500b548f.8797320a.325a.fffffe38SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b548f.8797320a.325a.fffffe38SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Well, they could if they had power of attorney over her. I've heard of people doing that to their blind kids just to keep them from going out into the world. I certainly hope that's not the case. On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: > your family can't physically move you back to florida. This is Dave by > the way. I live in a residential facility and my family they can come > out here all they want but if they tried to move me back to california > I wouldn't go with them. if they put their hands on you just call the > police. my family isn't all that supportive either so. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 02:01:18 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:01:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a job application. Message-ID: 13908718-bff7-46e1-b983-9256f1e89e6e@samobile.net I think it depends on how relevant the training is to what you're doing. If you're applying for a food service job, adding your training with emphasis on your home ec course is a great idea. just talk about what you did in that home ec course that would impress an employer: the meal for eight and forty, the complicated recipes from scratch, the various types of cookery methods, etc. If you're applying for a computer job, talk about the computer course: your Word training, your training with PowerPoint and Excel, your training with the internet and social media. If it's a job related to people, you might talk about your contributions to Seminar if appropriate. Or talk about any mentoring you've done while in training. You get the idea. This will hlep you discuss the relevant content of your training in a concise manner. So for the food service job, you might say something like this: BLInD Inc. 2010 Took non-visual home economics course baking from scratch, pan and deep frying, barbecueing; prepared and served a restaurant quality meal for eight; prepared and served a buffet-style meal for forty; researched recipes from books, the internet, and word of mouth. For the computer job. BLIND Inc. 2010 Intense training in microsoft Word, Excel, Powerpoint, the Internet, and social media; studied the basic hardware components of a desktop machine; created a braille restaurant menu using Microsoft Word and a braille translation program. For the people job. BLIND Inc. 2010 Intense blindness training including peer mentoring and support; participated in a weekly diswcussion group on blindness and its role in our lives; used the group discussion to assist others in coping with blindness; participated in a peer mentoring program in which experienced training participants assist newcomers in adjusting to training; now spend time discussing the role of BLIND Inc training in my life to potential participants In each of these examples, experiences are listed in a way that jives with what employers want out of their employees. How you actually word what you want to say will depend on the job description. Good luck. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Cindy, > The only way you can begin to answer this is to ask yourself what you > would want to see if you were hiring someone with an 11-month gap in > their resume. Put yourself in the employer's situation. How would you > want a potential employee to handle this? > Let's assume that attending a training center for blindness skills is > not something an employer or HR manager understands or wants to see on > a resume. In this situation, there probably is NOT a short way to > convey that you went to a great center and learned great skills. > You're going to have to get innovative and creative. > You said you could not have worked very much if given the opportunity > while living at BLIND, Inc., but I disagree. I'm sure you've gained > some transferable skills during the past 11 months even if not in an > office setting. Does BLIND Inc. require their students to do some sort > of community service activity during their training? If not, and you > didn't volunteer or become active in the community during your year of > training, maybe you held a position in the NFB's student division. You > can work with this experience to fit a resume and show recent > experience. For example, under "Work Experience," you might list > "President" or "Secretary, Association of Blind Students." Then you > can use bullet points to show, not tell, what you did: "Developed a > website for students to interact with others." "Increased > participation by 55% through Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and Email > postings." "Researched venues and helped plan a three-day conference > in San Diego." You get the idea. You only need mention blindness in > passing here, and this does not automatically indicate that you are > blind yourself. Instead, this show's that you've been actively doing > something during the past 11 months and counts as experience without > mentioning blindness training. You may have to rework the headings a > little on your resume to make this fit, but this fill's a gap in your > resume. You never want giant gaps in a resume, but it's possible to > fill gaps with something relevant, even if that something seems > irrelevant or far-fetched to you. > I think you dismissed the cover letter too soon. Your cover letter > narrates your resume in more detail and can be used to tell a story > about something you might not otherwise want to discuss. Your cover > letter can address your qualifications for the position and your gap > in employment at the same time. Depending on the organization, the > company culture, the responsibilities of the position and the person > most likely to read your resume, your cover letter can (briefly) > mention blindness training and how increased training and confidence > will help you adequately meet the expectations of the position. > Don't just tell them you went for blindness training. Explain to them > that you made the decision to learn quality travel skills as a blind > person because you understand this job requires extensive travel and > that your training taught you to independently and efficiently > navigate airports, train stations and hotels without vision. This can > be tricky and it's more likely to work with small organizations rather > than large corporations, but it is not impossible to show in your > cover letter that attending a blindness training center helped you > identify and develop skills needed for the job. If you're working with > an online application system that does not allow you to upload > supplemental documents, weaving blindness training into the body of > your cover letter and not including it on your resume might be your > best option. Your resume can highlight your volunteer experience > you've held during the past year and your cover letter can touch on > the blindness training. Also, reconsider your use of supplemental > documents at all. Why do you think they're necessary? If I were an HR > manager, I'd rather someone creatively demonstrate their work gap or > disability without asking me to slog through additional information. > If resumes and cover letters spend only a few moments in front of > someone, how much time and attention do you honestly think additional > and unnecessary documents are going to receive? > The bottom line is to avoid the blindness training as much as > possible, not only because blindness can be a hindrance when finding a > job, but because BLIND Inc., unlike your university education, > probably has nothing to do with the job you are applying for. If you > feel like you can't avoid the center because you didn't gain any other > experience during your year of training, creatively work your training > into the cover letter or resume by either explaining how your training > helped you develop skills for the job or by explaining what you did > during training that kept your skills relevant and up-to-date. If none > of this works, or if you think the organization would be receptive to > your training, you could fully disclose your training and boldly > discuss how you maturely recognized the need to gain total proficiency > in blindness skills so you could effectively handle all the > responsibilities of the job. > These same types of suggestions are used by students who travel abroad > after school. If they don't write travel blogs and stories or actually > volunteer internationally, they can modify their experience to fit a > resume: "Developed budgeting and planning skills while interacting > with citizens from over a dozen foreign countries." "Cultivated > language and communication skills through contact with people around > the world." The idea is to be sincere and completely honest while > showing creativity and initiative. The difference is that blindness > comes with a negative stereotype and travel usually does not. But you > can make this work. You just might need to brainstorm to figure out > how. > Brice > On 7/20/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. >> If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work >> in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, >> from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have >> not worked very much even if given the opportunity. >> Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always >> been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in >> person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing >> some HR assistant’s mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of >> bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some >> “excuse.” >> But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting >> me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. >> But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on >> my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included >> supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a >> certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of >> information and give the website and contact information if they are >> so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in >> employment require explanation. >> But right now, I am working with an online application with no place >> to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a >> resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job >> qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, >> I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep >> submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always >> wondering what I could be doing better. >> Thoughts? >> If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and >> learned great skills, what is it? >> I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are >> still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding >> strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this >> message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding >> other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another >> subject line. >> Thanks. >> Cindy >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > -- > Brice Smith > North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations > Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 02:02:36 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:02:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs Message-ID: a91ae2f6-ec60-4471-8dfe-bf2de39e86a6@samobile.net My Gods! Sorry for all the typos! I guess I wasn't paying attention. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I occurs to me that how the building is upkept says much about a > center's view of its work and the consumers it serves. I don't > recommend going to a center that's tucked away in a ritzy part of town > as it's probably not realistic for most of us, but it's also not > helpful to the psyche of center consumers to be in a neighborhood with > violence in it. And the bugs? The food? All that violateshealth codes. > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> No wonder they call it the "Braille Jail!" >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 7/16/12, Dave Webster wrote: >>> hi Amber. I'm Dave. I'm from california and I went to wsb as well. >>> I can defenitely agree with yo on the food. I can't even count how many >>> times I got sick from that food. I mean full blown sick. I have bipolar >>> and I don't know what it is about that building but for some reason it >>> causes symptoms of depression. I guess because it is like a hospital in >>> some ways. its an old building and going down some of the halls are just >>> scary for me. Like I say I don't know what it is about that building but >>> that building being inside of it really depresses me. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:55 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>> Oh no! >>> Call the Arkansas State Police! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> On 7/16/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >>>> Ian, >>>> I am currently at WSB, but am planning to leave on Friday. Here is >>>> what I have experienced. I will do my best to give only facts and not >>>> color those facts with my opinion, though before I begin, I will >>>> clearly state that if you are asking for an opinion as to whether or >>>> not one should attend this program in order to obtain a job, I would >>>> have to say no. But I am not you or anyone else for that matter, and >>>> what I have experienced here has colored my opinion, and may not be very >>> reliable. >>>> The facts: >>>> *Several students (including myself) have had valuables go missing. >>>> *The food does not seem to meet health and safety codes. (just one >>>> example-there are many-one evening we had chicken wings, and though >>>> the outside was hot, the inside was not. I would not mention this, >>>> except this is not an isolated incident.) *The showers have light >>>> bulbs (not protected by any kind of panels) inside the actual stall >>>> where water could be accidentally splashed. I brought this up as a >>>> concern, so they put a cover over mine, but mine is not the only one >>>> that this is the case with (as confirmed by other clients.) *Despite >>>> several complaints from many clients, the building is full of bugs. >>>> They say that someone comes regularly to spray, but bugs were found >>>> even in my room, and I am a very clean person. (read as, do not leave >>>> food in uncealed containers or dishes with food still on them etc.) >>>> *Clients are unable to have microwaves or refrigerators in their >>>> rooms, and so are reduced to coolers full of ice or nothing at all >>>> except cafeteria food. There are microwaves that physically exist, >>>> but they do not work very well. >>>> Now I can say that there are other things I could talk about, but they >>>> probably come down to personal preference and really are just normal >>>> inconveniences that one would encounter on any college dorm, except >>>> they are exaggerated because of the fact that everything is scaled >>>> down hugely. So while, for example, on most college campuses, you >>>> could go to a dining hall at almost any time of day, if you do not >>>> come to meals at the times specified, you don't eat meals. I am sure >>>> that anyone can argue that when in school, you have to work with a >>>> particular schedule, and while this is true to some extent, I do take >>>> issue with the fact that we can't even have microwaves or >>>> refrigerators in our rooms so that we may maintain the schedules that are >>> most comfortable for us. >>>> The last thing I mention is a large thing and may not affect anyone, >>>> but I feel I must mention it, because if I did not, I would be doing a >>>> great disservice to anyone considering attending this center. >>>> Two weeks ago this Friday, I was groped by an authority figure. He >>>> was picking me up from the airport, and I was approaching the baggage >>>> claim with a female passenger from my flight. This authority figure >>>> approached me without announcing himself, put his arm around my waist, >>>> hugged me to himself in a tight, possessive manner, and told the >>>> female passenger who had offered to walk with me that he "had it under >>>> control from there, but thanks." After which, he looked down at me >>>> and said, "How was your trip, Punkin? We've missed you! We're so glad >>> you're home!" >>>> This man did not announce himself to me in the beginning, should have >>>> been treating me professionally, is old enough to be my father, and >>>> possibly even my grandfather, has only interacted with me minimally >>>> since my arrival at the center, I'm 24, etc etc etc. Basically, it >>>> was wayyy wayyyy beyond what one would call professional or even >>> acceptable regardless of setting. >>>> I cannot tell you whether to attend this center; only you can decide >>>> that for yourself. What I can tell you is that the man who did this >>>> to me was reported by me, and, I have discovered, has been reported >>>> multiple times by other females that he has violated in one way or >>>> another, and still holds a job here. I believe there is something big >>>> going on here that I am unaware of, and am only glad to be leaving. >>>> I have met some truly wonderful people here, but regardless of that, I >>>> could never suggest that someone attend here. >>>> I hope this helps you make your decision. If it does not, please know >>>> that I wish you all the best. >>>> Amber R. Herrin >>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855 >>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu >>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard >>>> Impossible is not a word >>>> It's just a reason >>>> For someone not to try >>>> Everybody's scared to death >>>> When they decide to take that step >>>> Out on the water >>>> It'll be alright >>>> Life is so much more >>>> Than what your eyes are seeing >>>> You will find your way >>>> If you keep believing" >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:49 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>> Ian, >>>> I have never attended LWSB as a trainny, but I used to go there on to >>>> stay during weekends in the 1990s. The only thing I can say is that >>>> LWSB has made alot of changes last couple of years and I would think >>>> about visiting there before deciding one way or the other. They do >>>> have an option to live off campus and as far as I am aware that there >>>> is not a sign in and sign out policy after class time. Now they may >>>> have sign in and sign out policy during class time to keep count of >>>> attendance, however, this is know different signing in and signing out >>>> of work which everyone blind and sighted has to do. >>>> The IRS program is one of the best programs there and frankly since >>>> you have to be excepted for a job at one of the IRS offices, it is a >>>> guarantied employment after completing the program and they start at >>> 45,000 or more. >>>> The food was not the greatest, however, as I said above LWSB now known >>>> as World Services for the Blind has made alot of changes under the new >>>> director and frankly I can not tell you how the food is now. As I said >>>> earlier, I would make a visit there before making any kind of decision. >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>> like a breeze among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, Ian Perrault wrote: >>>>> From: Ian Perrault >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] LWSB Little Rock Employment Training Programs >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students" >>>>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 4:14 PM >>>>> Hi >>>>> I'm wondering if any of you have attended LWSB for one of their >>>>> employment training programs, or LWSB in general? >>>>> I'm looking into one of the IRS programs, and was reading the manual, >>>>> and it seems like a very strict and structured environment, even >>>>> though most of the participants are adults. For instance, you have to >>>>> sign out if you want to go somewhere and things like that. Have any >>>>> of you attended LWSB? I'd love to hear what your experiences were. >>>>> Since I've been to college, it sounds like it's not as independent of >>>>> an environment. >>>>> Ian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40ya >>>>> h >>>>> oo.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio. >>>> edu >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud >>>> ents.pccua.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne >>> t >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 02:04:01 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:04:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff Message-ID: <500b5fa5.8822320a.2e7f.5827@mx.google.com> Thanks, Tyler. I'm pretty sure the Dell didn't have a long enough laptop. Which laptops have a longer warranty? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" You mention Dropbox. I looooooove dropbox, and have a few shared folders with friends. It's fun because my friends have music and stuff. I like streaming the Dropbox mobile app as well. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Jaws is not the only screen reader. There's NVDA, which is free. Also, DVR gets Jaws a lot cheaper since they tend to buy bulk licenses of Jaws for all their clients, so it's not that big of a deal. If the harddrive fails, it fails, again, something that could happen on the mac. Just make sure that whatever laptop you buy has a warranty on it for repair. On 7/21/2012 6:05 PM, Beth wrote: Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if the hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something without knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up with. I also am really concerned because ... rumor has it that JAWS 14 is coming out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the reasons that we can't afford it and such. I would never want JAWs plus a PC for the simple fact that Rehab has to foot the bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get a PC with my own money, but it has to have a screen reader on it. Third party apps? They drive me nuts! Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo main.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 02:04:10 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:04:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meetingresults andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500b5fae.8822320a.2e7f.582f@mx.google.com> Aha. I could do that. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thanks, Ashley. I have no idea why anyone would say use a Perkinds Brailler or Slate and Stylus to do college work. That just isn't practical. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net To: RJ Sandefur , nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:57:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworking computerforcoll ege Hi RJ, Your response compares apples and oranges. In those days when Maurer went to school, computers did not exist! they typed on typewriters. Now you have to have a computer to turn in any work: papers, homework, take home tests, etc, etc. So we need computers; saying that they did it without them is well irrelevant because now a days any college has to have a computer to go to school. Now does Beth need a mac? I think not because if her windows pc is fine and most students use them, then she can too. To Josh and others saying use a perkins, you cannot do that to turn in work; a professor cannot read braille! Lets give realistic advice, people. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur wrote: Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping me from wanting a PC so much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" Wow, a kindred spirit I suppose? Just because I have bipolar, my boyfriend says, I'm being denied a computer. I'm already juggling lots of things on my plate. I don't need to have anything else but a computer and stuff. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Oh, thanks, Roanna. I'm in Denver, and they're al in Aurora, but I think I remember seeing a movie at that same theater if I remember correctly. beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Roanna Baccchus Well, email me off list. I have to explain something kind of complicated about my situation. Maybe you ccan offer me some ideas. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave References: <500b5faa.8822320a.2e7f.582b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ashley, here's a day in my college life! I don't have a note taker, and since I don't have a very good computer in my room at the college, this is what I have to do. I have to do my work, on the Perkins Brailler, then read it to a work-study who puts it into print, and then I turn the work in to the instructor. That's how I have to handle things, because like Beth my rehab counselor is a devil, and isn't cooperating! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: > Thanks, Ashley. I have no idea why anyone would say use a > Perkinds Brailler or Slate and Stylus to do college work. That > just isn't practical. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > To: RJ Sandefur , > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:57:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Hi RJ, > > Your response compares apples and oranges. In those days when > Maurer went to school, computers did not exist! they typed on > typewriters. Now you have to have a computer to turn in any work: > papers, homework, take home tests, etc, etc. So we need > computers; saying that they did it without them is well > irrelevant because now a days any college has to have a computer > to go to school. Now does Beth need a mac? I think not because if > her windows pc is fine and most students use them, then she can > too. > > To Josh and others saying use a perkins, you cannot do that to > turn in work; a professor cannot read braille! Lets give > realistic advice, people. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 3:11 PM > To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind > Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to > law school? > What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college by > no > means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when > your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn how to > compensate. I > think all these technologies we have is great, but I think we > depend on it a > bit to much! I think this is something that should be explored > with the > leaders in the federation, is what was it like when their were no > computers. > RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex > and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged > from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its > tough. I was > overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe > your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, nor > should we > discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. > If she > wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize > with her > because I struggled with research too; all long complex > articles. Most > were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the time the > database > was not very accessible. I ended up using readers mostly; they > could skim > for relevant info in these very lengthy articles. Oh and she > said books > were an issue. Its true that the library's vast amount of print > periodicals and books are not accessible. Get a reader, i say. > Most stuff > is electronic, but some great info is not. I wanted to use any > sources i > could. Readers posed a schedule challenge though and were not > always > reliable. I definately found papers one of the more challenging > aspects of > college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how > stuff is > done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I > believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with > rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school and > fight to get > out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing > with out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's > part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not > college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but > you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing > a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. > Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the > question > and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and > can't > be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's > all that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if > it's at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close > your case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal > government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will > push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and > play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I > might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly > go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 02:14:25 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:14:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500b6215.a70c320a.731d.561b@mx.google.com> Desiree, I think I'll email you off list about the whole situation. it's complicated, and parents need to not do that to their blind kids to keep them from going out in to the world. I had to break that hold and move to Denver, but it's like Harriett Ann Jacobs and slavery. Slavery for her was a bad idea, and she left it because she was being degraded by her master. Ok, ok, maybe this goes a bit far, but it took her flying, not literally but figuratively, to Philadelphia and New York and staying there in order to convince the master and mistress that she did not want slavery. Whfta had to happen was that some nice family bought her freedom and advocated for the abolition of her slavery. In a way, the complicated situation sort of parallels with a very degrading thing. Before I go any further, I'll email a few of you guys off list. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Desiree Oudinot wrote: your family can't physically move you back to florida. This is Dave by the way. I live in a residential facility and my family they can come out here all they want but if they tried to move me back to california I wouldn't go with them. if they put their hands on you just call the police. my family isn't all that supportive either so. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 02:16:02 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:16:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: <500b550a.8a852b0a.70c3.ffffed2bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b550a.8a852b0a.70c3.ffffed2bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Kurt, Jedi and all, If you pay your $5 dues to NABS and become a voting member, and/or seek office, you are in fact a member of the NFB for a year following your dues payment. This is because NABS is an integral part of the NFB. So Kurt, in your case you would have been a member last year. I don't, however, know if you chose to repay your dues at convention this year. Either way, I respect your decision and appreciate your continued contributions to our list. I have stated before that I believe there are many ways to contribute to the NFB's work, and being an official, pledge-abiding member is but one of them. Even among members, there are multiple levels of membership--local, state and national--and several levels of involvement we can choose to have or not have. I will state candidly here that I have recently developed some disagreements with the way that NFB handles its national politics, and I wish that elections, resolutions and other organizational matters were handled in a way that more closely resembles the way the United States constitution operates. I would like to see more room given for opposition and debate beyond the convention floor on resolution day. In full disclosure, this is part of the reason why I chose not to seek a second term as NABS president and instead decided to focus my NFB efforts to my local chapter and to behind-the-scenes activities like posting on this list. However, I will leave it at that and will not violate the NFB pledge by discussing my specific grievances in a public forum or anywhere else outside the NFB. This is because I think the empowerment and inspiration the NFB gives to blind people is more important to protect than are my ideals about democratic leadership, and I'm willing to let go of the things I don't agree with in order to help blind people in the ways where I have the most to offer. However, this is just my personal approach to the situation. I can completely empathize with those of you who choose not to join because of the NFB pledge or anything else about the organization you find distasteful. I believe that even without joining and unofficially signing on to the pledge, there are things you can do to further the NFB philosophy and collective goals--by writing on this list, by offering mentoring and resources to blind people in your area, and even just by living your life and educating the public along the way. Best, Arielle On 7/21/12, Jedi wrote: > Kirt, > > Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you join NABS? Didn't you, > at one point, seek national office in NABS? If this is the case, you > might want to know that joining NABS, let alone serving as a national > officer, means that you have joined the NFB. Or least, that is how I > read the NABS constitution. For those NABS constitution scholars out > there, is that the case? And if you have unknowingly joined the NFB > Kirt, that also means that you have also signed the pledge. Ah, those > dubious NFB-ers! *kidding* In all seriousness though, and provided I'm > correct in my understanding, it may be helpful information to you, > Kirt, and everyone, in order to engage in a manner congruent to your > beliefs. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Julie, >> Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for >> it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be >> limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's >> something I just can not do. >> And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last >> convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, >> even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states >> with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen >> in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly >> clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or >> wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. >> Best, >> Kirt > >> On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi all, > >>> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the >>> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow >>> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a >>> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be >>> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can >>> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those >>> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple >>> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather >>> close. > >>> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of >>> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical >>> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of >>> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to >>> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an >>> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current >>> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in >>> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the >>> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any >>> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. >>> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be >>> extremely boring and would not make a good organization. > >>> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Justin, >>>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >>>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >>>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >>>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >>>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >>>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >>>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >>>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >>>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >>>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >>>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >>>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >>>> for the blind; to >>>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >>>> its constitution." >>>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >>>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >>>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >>>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >>>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >>>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >>>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >>>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >>>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >>>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >>>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >>>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >>>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >>>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >>>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >>>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >>>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >>>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >>>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >>>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >>>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt > >>>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> Dear List, > >>>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >>>>> two >>>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>>>> opinions >>>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. > >>>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. > >>>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. > >>>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because >>>>> someone >>>>> from Baltimore told me what to do. > >>>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>>>> that >>>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single >>>>> member >>>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>>>> within >>>>> us. > >>>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>>>> organization >>>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>>>> much >>>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >>>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >>>>> our >>>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >>>>> not >>>>> even have closets in which to sit. > >>>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >>>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie >>>>> I >>>>> was >>>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>>>> people >>>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >>>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. > >>>>> Justin > >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu > >>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>> MEAD > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > > > >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >>> of Missouri recording secretary, >>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind > >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 02:43:57 2012 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:43:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting resultsand whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: 43c9bcaa-14ab-46b4-b78b-53ffb4bde841@samobile.net Ok that's cool. what's your email. Mine is computerguy125 at samobile.net. Just email me any time. if you want I can call you as well just let me know off list if you want me to. From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 04:11:07 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:11:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <500b4b67.49592b0a.3fe1.ffffbb8fSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b4b67.49592b0a.3fe1.ffffbb8fSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4BE064BE-B3B6-4F86-8CB4-06C9A7D92DCE@gmail.com> Hello Jedi, Jedi wrote, i think it is fair to say that the membership of our organization certainly reflects the variety of individuals in the U,S, generally. for that reason, it is definitely worth saying that Sean's take on NFB philosophy is as individual to him as it is to anyone's. If every individual member of NFB gets to define NFB philosophy, then there is no philosophy. It seems to me that an elected leader of an organization is given a mandate to speak on behalf of that organization and articulate to others what the organization stands for, no? Jedi wrote, Furthermore, I think that sean's ideas about the role of universal design reflects sean himself and his own values generally. But I think it is unfair to say that he doesn't consider others' views and needs. And though you're correct to say that his position on the social grid may affect his level of awareness of certain issues, it is not correct to assume that he has not made himself aware through various means or that he altogether does not consider the needs and issues of others. This is why I pull direct quotes from the messages of others. I don't know what I said that made you interpret my words in this way. I did say that it is easier to say "just accept it and move on" from a place of privilege. I didn't say that Sean doesn't consider the needs of others. I think it's beneficial to keep in mind the privileged position that I would argue virtually everyone on this list is in, and that's all I was trying to encourage. Jedi wrote, As to the overall discussion of universal design within the organization, I think it really varies. Some people are more interested in environmental access issues than others. And I also think the organizations views overall on the matter have changed and are changing because our world is changing and has changed over time. Arielle made a similar claim about a change. Perhaps it's true. I'm not sure what the evidence is. It was suggested that we check out the 2012 resolutions. I did listen to them during convention, but I don't recall them well. I do recall both the XBox one and the Apple one, and if you listen to the debate on these ones, it doesn't sound like the organization is pushing for products to be universally design. Jedi wrote, As for me, I think most things in life are already accessible to me as a blind person as they are. Yes, it took some training for me to make that happen. but it wasn't like it took years and years of training. Is the training not something like nine months? That seems like a lot to me. A sufficiently motivated student could get a masters degree in that time. It's great that such training was available to you and that you had the time to be able to go. My guess is that not everyone will have that kind of time. I'm thinking it would be difficult for a 40-year old single mother, no high school education, with three kids in a poor neighbourhood of Detroit to be able to leave her children in order to go to Blind Inc. Maybe I'm wrong about this though. Seems like it would be much harder to me. If things can be designed in such a way that a person without nine months of intensive training can function pretty much the same as someone with that training, then we probably ought to push for that in my opinion. Jedi wrote, Though my training covered specific types of barriers and how to overcome them, much of my training was spent convincing myself through multiple trials and mentoring that I have the creativity and wherewithall to adapt to my world for the most part. And I think that's part of the problem. Many of us in the blindness community (including the professionals who serve us) believe that we blind (the average blind) don't have that wherewithall. I don't think that's correct and seriously underestimates what we can do for ourselves in a variety of life areas, not just in this particular domain. I completely agree that underestimating one's abilities is often what prevents one from accomplishing a task that he or she could otherwise accomplish. Where perhaps we disagree is that I do not think it is solely underestimation 100% of the time. Some people do lack the creativity and wherewithal. It may not be because of blindness alone, but because of blindness couple with a variety of other factors, but as I said, I think it's important to design for such people, and not just those who do possess the creativity and wherewithal but who don't realize they do. Jedi wrote, And frankly, many universal design ideas come with the notion that blindness makes it difficult for an individual to make sense of their environment because of the lack of sight alone. Actual examples here would be useful. I can't agree or disagree because I don't know what you have in mind. Jedi wrote, Now before you get all hot and bothered by thinking that I'm against universal design, There are a lot of things that get me hot and bothered, but one's opposing universal design is fortunately not one of them. Jedi wrote, let me say that I do support including universal design in technology such as kiosks, e-book readers, computers, point of sale terminals, etc. These are devices included in daily life that really do present a challenge to us. That's right, I think most in the NFB will support calling for changes when there is no workaround, when there's no practical way to access the product or service. I think that's setting the threshold too high. If making a change is done to make things easier, or to assist those who lack the training, the creativity, the wherewithal, etc, then the change seems not only not to be supported, but actively to be opposed, often on the grounds that we can manage without the change or people will think less of us if the change is made. I find neither reason for actively opposing such changes convincing. Jedi wrote, I also support accessible pedestrian signals where they would be helpful, but not at every damn block! Helpful for whom? for you? And if I do genuinely find them helpful at every damn block, will you actively oppose my efforts to get them installed? Jedi wrote, Video description? Sure. Accessible currency? Sure. Do I think not having video description or accessible currency is discriminatory? No, not necessarily. Saying "not necessarily" implies that it might or might not be discriminatory. I would be interested in knowing in what cases and on what grounds it would or would not be discriminatory. Jedi wrote, And that's partially what I think Sean means when he says that there's a huge difference between moving on and whining. Blind folks have gotten along without descriptions and bumps on money for some time without too much trouble. Define "gotten along". Statistics about blindness, as I read them at least, suggest that we're not getting along all that well. But assuming we have, we also got along before Target created a website and before the Kindle was released. I want full and equal access. Getting along is not good enough. If wanting nothing less than equal access to all the goods and benefits of society makes me a whiner, then a whiner I am. Jedi wrote, All this is to say that universal design really does help me as a blind person, but I don't support design features that presume I can't think or do for myself. I'd much rather prefer that the money spent on unnecessary features gets spent on training blind people or on developing accessibility features that can be taylored to the needs of various individuals without annoying others. The mistake I think you're making is in taking it as a comment on you specifically. The presumption isn't about whether you can or cannot think and do for yourself. It's not about you. It's about designing things in such a way that even those who can't think and do as well as you are still able to participate in and enjoy the benefits of society. You call them "unnecessary features", and again I ask, unnecessary for whom? I'm not sure what you mean regarding tailoring accessibility features to the needs of individuals without annoying others. Let's say I'm pretty good at estimating what floor an elevator has stopped at, and I can't stand those annoying beeps, perhaps I should lobby to change things up so that you have to carry a small earpiece around with you that will beep for you and you alone. This hypothetical case gets at my main point. It would be one thing for me to ignore the beeps, to go to a training centre for nine months learning how to live without the beeps. This would even put me in a better position because I could manage my way more conveniently in buildings without beeping elevators. I might even be more employable because of my ability to get along without beeps. I could try to convince you that you too can learn to live without the beeps, explain all the advantages, tell you how useful the training was, but for me to actively try to prevent people who find the beeps useful from having them installed in more elevators just because I don't need them, because sighted people find them annoying, and because it *might* cause people to have a negative view about me... that just strikes me as wrong. Cheers, Marc On 2012-07-21, at 6:36 PM, Jedi wrote: > Marc, > > You're right that some of our NFB philosophy does reflect values generally held in American society. Wether these are right or wrong doesn't matter to me in this very instant, but i think it is fair to say that the membership of our organization certainly reflects the variety of individuals in the U,S, generally. for that reason, it is definitely worth saying that Sean's take on NFB philosophy is as individual to him as it is to anyone's. Furthermore, I think that sean's ideas about the role of universal design reflects sean himself and his own values generally. But I think it is unfair to say that he doesn't consider others' views and needs. And though you're correct to say that his position on the social grid may affect his level of awareness of certain issues, it is not correct to assume that he has not made himself aware through various means or that he altogether does not consider the needs and issues of others. > > As to the overall discussion of universal design within the organization, I think it really varies. Some people are more interested in environmental access issues than others. And I also think the organizations views overall on the matter have changed and are changing because our world is changing and has changed over time. > > Here's my take on universal design. I think it's a great idea in theory, but its application gets messed up by, especially in the case of blindness, what various groups and individuals think we blind need and don't need. And I think much of this need is determined by the barriers various people think are imposed by blindness. As for me, I think most things in life are already accessible to me as a blind person as they are. Yes, it took some training for me to make that happen. but it wasn't like it took years and years of training. Though my training covered specific types of barriers and how to overcome them, much of my training was spent convincing myself through multiple trials and mentoring that I have the creativity and wherewithall to adapt to my world for the most part. And I think that's part of the problem. Many of us in the blindness community (including the professionals who serve us) believe that we blind (the average blind) don't have that wherewithall. I don't think that's correct and seriously underestimates what we can do for ourselves in a variety of life areas, not just in this particular domain. And frankly, many universal design ideas come with the notion that blindness makes it difficult for an individual to make sense of their environment because of the lack of sight alone. > > Now before you get all hot and bothered by thinking that I'm against universal design, let me say that I do support including universal design in technology such as kiosks, e-book readers, computers, point of sale terminals, etc. These are devices included in daily life that really do present a challenge to us. Yes, we could overcome this barrier by shopping elsewhere, by getting help when necessary, by getting our consumables from firms who don't use inaccessible technology, etc. But that's kind of ridiculous in my view. The technology's there. Companies such as Apple have proven that, when designed from the ground up, accessible technology doesn't constitute a huge financial hardship. I also support accessible pedestrian signals where they would be helpful, but not at every damn block! Video description? Sure. Accessible currency? Sure. Do I think not having video description or accessible currency is discriminatory? No, not necessarily. And that's partially what I think Sean means when he says that there's a huge difference between moving on and whining. Blind folks have gotten along without descriptions and bumps on money for some time without too much trouble. We've even developed some of our own tools and means for getting around these problems. But does that mean we're fundamentally against these new accessibility features? Of course not! I acknowledge, and so do others sharing views similar to mine, that these features do make our lives a littel more convenient, and that's not necessarily a bad thing so long as we can still adapt to situations where these conveniences are not yet available. And there really are some barriers that universal design helps with. I think of braille signs. I can't tell which bathroom is which without going in and finding out the hard way. I can't tell which room is which unless I ask people in these rooms or near them. Braille signs help me overcome these barriers. Without a beep or a voice telling me which floor I'm on, I wouldn't know unless I had some way of counting them as the elevator rises or if I get out of the elevator and find out through exploration. By then, the elevator's gone if it's not the floor I want and I have to catch the next one. But if it doesn't beep or something telling me whether or not the thing is going up or down, I guess I'll have to find out the hard way. All this is to say that universal design really does help me as a blind person, but I don't support design features that presume I can't think or do for myself. I'd much rather prefer that the money spent on unnecessary features gets spent on training blind people or on developing accessibility features that can be taylored to the needs of various individuals without annoying others. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hello Sean, > >> As I was reading, I was wondering why the emphasis was entirely on attitudes with no mention of physical/design barriers, and then I get to the last point and realize why. The barriers aren't the problem, it's our failure to simply accept them and move on that's the problem. > >> Sean wrote, >>> we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair. > >> Or, a third option, we can do something to change what isn't fair, call something an injustice when it's an injustice and do something to eliminate it. > >> We've had similar discussions before, so I don't expect to change your mind, but maybe someone else will be persuaded, and I'm not all that tired anyway.. I will say that I think you do reflect a common attitude that partly constitutes NFB philosophy, and it's probably the one aspect of this philosophy that I think is mistaken. > >> I think I get it — the whole pull yourself up by the bootstraps attitude (very American) — there's value in that, but I think it tends to come from a place of privilege. Going out on a dangerous limb, Sean, guessing white, male, middle class, well educated, heterosexual, no other significant physical or psychological variations. Even if I'm completely wrong on most of this, I can tell you're well educated and intelligent. My point is only that it is easier to say we should just suck it up and move on from such a place of relative privilege. The danger of just sucking it up and moving on is that you might not be as motivated to change things to help out those who aren't able to suck it up and move on. Personally, I'm aiming for a world that's as inclusive and accessible as possible to all blind people, not just the creative, educated ones. So if there's a barrier that I myself can get around, that won't stop me from pointing it out and trying to eliminate it. Simply going around it, however, makes me more likely not to think about it and consequently not to do anything about it. > >> There is value in providing blind people with tools for dealing with injustice and encouraging them to use these tools. We live in an unjust world. What I reject is the false dichotomy of either accepting the injustice or whining about it. We can and should not simply "accept it and move on", but actively work to eliminate injustice where ever we find it. > >> Regards, > >> Marc >> On 2012-07-17, at 11:38 PM, wrote: > >>> Tyler, > > > >>> Fair question. And while I do not claim to speak for everybody, and, in >>> fact, believe that there is no one great truth or philosophy about >>> blindness, do believe that there is a positive and realistic way of thinking >>> about blindness and all that it entails that is referred to as NFB >>> philosophy. I happen to subscribe to it, though I, as I have stated before, >>> do not agree 100% with everything the NFB does or says. Claiming to embrace >>> this philosophy no more relinquishes my claim on independent thought than >>> does subscribing to any point of view on any other issue. So, to boil it >>> down into a few key points, here is my take on what the NFB philosophy on >>> blindness is: > > > >>> 1) Blindness need not prohibit one from leading a meaningful, >>> productive and fulfilling life. > > > >>> 2) While blindness surely presents certain difficulties, frustrations >>> and inconveniences, the perception of blind persons among the general public >>> and the associated chronic underestimation of the abilities of blind >>> individuals causes more problems than anything inherent to blindness itself. > > > >>> 3) Blindness, rather than defining who I am, is but one characteristic >>> I possess. A characteristic with a greater impact on my life than the fact, >>> say, that I have brown hair, but a characteristic nonetheless. > > > >>> 4) By employing blindness skills, and when given the opportunity to do >>> so, average blind folks can do the vast majority of jobs, and participate in >>> the vast majority of pastimes, that average sighted folks can. By >>> extension, exceptionally bright, hard-working, or otherwise gifted blind >>> individuals can do the things that exceptional sighted folks can do. > > > >>> And, though I wouldn't list it as a belief at the core of how I view >>> blindness, I think it's worth saying: > > > >>> Sometimes, we, as blind people, need to be willing to go the extra mile to >>> get things done. Should things be designed for universal access? Absolutely. >>> Is it fair that I have to spend extra time scanning my books while my >>> sighted peers do not? No, it's not. However, in full recognition that there >>> are strong and persuasive moral, and probably practical, arguments for >>> remedying the status quo, we must recognize that the world and life are not >>> fair. Sometimes I'll have to work harder than the guy next to me to >>> accomplish the same thing. But, sometimes, the guy next to me will have to >>> work harder than me to compensate for some shortcoming of his own. That's >>> life, and we can choose to accept it and move on, or we can wallow and wine >>> that things aren't fair. We've all got obstacles to overcome, and, for me, >>> being blind happens to be one of them. > > > >>> I hope that all makes some sense. I would be curious to hear what others >>> think about the question. It is a good one and worth reflection and >>> discussion. > > > >>> Take care, > > > >>> Sean > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 04:11:27 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:11:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <500b53eb.65d1320a.3a26.fffff4baSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <500b53eb.65d1320a.3a26.fffff4baSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I'm just curious, How easy or difficult is it to hide a mental illness from rehab if you want to do so? Do they examine your medical records and obtain the information that way or do you have to report it for it to end up in your file? Obviously you have to prove to them that you're blind, but do you have the right to control access to other information about your health status that could potentially put you at a disadvantage for services? I would hope so, but wouldn't be surprised if that privacy isn't protected. Arielle On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: > Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my > rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division > services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with > finding some employment opportunities or training or something like > that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm > actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse > for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 03:15:20 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 00:15:20 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a jobapplication. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just put ware I went for my training and said attended an 8 month rehab program and when I was at the center. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Bennett Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:40 PM To: National Asociation of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] If or where to include center training on a jobapplication. I am currently job searching and running into a quandary. If a stranger looked at my resume, it would appear that I ended work in August of 2011, and that I have not worked since. When in reality, from September to April, I was attending BLIND, Inc. and could have not worked very much even if given the opportunity. Sharing the blind thing before appearing at an interview has always been a tossup for me. I always love giving my first impression in person so I have more control over the first impression than allowing some HR assistant's mind to marinate in all of the possibilities of bad stereotypes only to throw my application out because of some "excuse." But I am starting to think that maybe this gap on my resume is hurting me more than including blindness training as a part of my education. But therein lies another problem. I do not have nearly enough space on my resume to properly explain blindness training. I have included supplemental documents sometimes. If I feel it is appropriate for a certain job, then I go ahead and divulge it. I provide a plethora of information and give the website and contact information if they are so inclined to learn more. I definitely do this when gaps in employment require explanation. But right now, I am working with an online application with no place to upload a supplemental document. There is just one place for a resume, and in my cover letter, I want to focus on the job qualifications rather than explain 8 months of unemployment. Normally, I would submit my application and be done with it, but as I keep submitting more and more unanswered applications, I am always wondering what I could be doing better. Thoughts? If there is a short way to convey that I went to a great center and learned great skills, what is it? I know that we could go on for volumes about whether blind people are still discriminated against in the workplace, good job finding strategies, etc. but I would appreciate if direct replies to this message pertained to the question at hand and that emails regarding other blindness and job related issues be introduced with another subject line. Thanks. Cindy -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 22 04:17:20 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 23:17:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <500b53eb.65d1320a.3a26.fffff4baSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Arielle, the DSB in Arkansas wanted all of my medical information! Here's the problem I had with them! After my DSB counselor retired, and this new woman took over, I had to get another letter proving that I was blind! That stuff should've been on file, but she said that she didn't have it! Evidently, when the old woman retired, my file was taken with her so we have to start from scratch! I'm tired of this run around, that I'm getting! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I'm just curious, How easy or difficult is it to hide a mental illness > from rehab if you want to do so? Do they examine your medical records > and obtain the information that way or do you have to report it for it > to end up in your file? Obviously you have to prove to them that > you're blind, but do you have the right to control access to other > information about your health status that could potentially put you at > a disadvantage for services? I would hope so, but wouldn't be > surprised if that privacy isn't protected. > Arielle > > On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: >> Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my >> rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division >> services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with >> finding some employment opportunities or training or something like >> that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm >> actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse >> for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 04:24:49 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 00:24:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <500b53eb.65d1320a.3a26.fffff4baSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, Well, some of them are pretty absent-minded. Mine, for example, never said a word about medical records, but I get the feeling that even if he had seen them, he would forget in 10 seconds anyway. On 7/22/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I'm just curious, How easy or difficult is it to hide a mental illness > from rehab if you want to do so? Do they examine your medical records > and obtain the information that way or do you have to report it for it > to end up in your file? Obviously you have to prove to them that > you're blind, but do you have the right to control access to other > information about your health status that could potentially put you at > a disadvantage for services? I would hope so, but wouldn't be > surprised if that privacy isn't protected. > Arielle > > On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: >> Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my >> rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division >> services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with >> finding some employment opportunities or training or something like >> that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm >> actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse >> for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sun Jul 22 04:28:03 2012 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 00:28:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: bf88b855-0a59-45cf-a2d1-5023b7218dd9@samobile.net In my case my councilor asked me whare I was living at and I told him I was living in a residential facility because I needed a little extra help because I have bipolar. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 22 04:28:51 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 23:28:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <500b53eb.65d1320a.3a26.fffff4baSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: "Absent-minded?" How about just "Absent?" Mine only showed up one time, and is now making lame excuses for why she couldn't meet with me about my next semester of college! Good grief! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Well, some of them are pretty absent-minded. Mine, for example, never > said a word about medical records, but I get the feeling that even if > he had seen them, he would forget in 10 seconds anyway. > > On 7/22/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> I'm just curious, How easy or difficult is it to hide a mental illness >> from rehab if you want to do so? Do they examine your medical records >> and obtain the information that way or do you have to report it for it >> to end up in your file? Obviously you have to prove to them that >> you're blind, but do you have the right to control access to other >> information about your health status that could potentially put you at >> a disadvantage for services? I would hope so, but wouldn't be >> surprised if that privacy isn't protected. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: >>> Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my >>> rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division >>> services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with >>> finding some employment opportunities or training or something like >>> that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm >>> actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse >>> for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 13:02:56 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 09:02:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <500b53eb.65d1320a.3a26.fffff4baSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Joshua, Is there a supervisor who you could contact? Is there a way you could have a personal copy of your records so that if something like this happens again you don't have to deal with resubmitting a request for records? -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 12:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Arielle, the DSB in Arkansas wanted all of my medical information! Here's the problem I had with them! After my DSB counselor retired, and this new woman took over, I had to get another letter proving that I was blind! That stuff should've been on file, but she said that she didn't have it! Evidently, when the old woman retired, my file was taken with her so we have to start from scratch! I'm tired of this run around, that I'm getting! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I'm just curious, How easy or difficult is it to hide a mental illness > from rehab if you want to do so? Do they examine your medical records > and obtain the information that way or do you have to report it for it > to end up in your file? Obviously you have to prove to them that > you're blind, but do you have the right to control access to other > information about your health status that could potentially put you at > a disadvantage for services? I would hope so, but wouldn't be > surprised if that privacy isn't protected. > Arielle > > On 7/21/12, Dave wrote: >> Hi Beth. I'm Dave. I actually am having the same problem with my >> rehab out here in arkansas whare I'm at. here there is division >> services for the blind and I wanted to try to get them to help me with >> finding some employment opportunities or training or something like >> that. i have bipolar as well and they won't help me either. I'm >> actually trying to get some employment here at the arkansas lighthouse >> for the blind. but yea bipolar is hard to deal with. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sun Jul 22 13:05:18 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 09:05:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Proactively sharing frustrations with rehab services Message-ID: Good morning all, It seems lately we’ve been on the topic of expressing various frustrations with rehab services or the lack of support. As a consumer of such services, I understand the frustrations and irritation everyone has shared. This is just my opinion: while we have the right to gripe to fellow students is it fair to put down these professionals who are not on list to defend themselves? I am not at all saying as students we don’t have valid claims but to questions a counselors memory span or abilities on a public forum is doing exactly what we as students feel is being done to us. We are being misjudged or misunderstood. If we as students feel our needs are not being met, rather than directly dealing with the counselors there is always a supervisor one can contact. Make sure your counselor knows your complaints and have documentation of their refusal to provide services we feel are necessary. I’m not trying to be difficult or dismissive or any of the frustrations which have been shared; I want to be as supportive rather than feed into the negativity which is quite easy to fall into. Please know I have fallen into this trap. I have always found this list to be a proactive community which challenges and supports each other. Let’s keep up the trend. Wishing all the best, Anjelina -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-smile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available URL: From steve.jacobson at visi.com Sun Jul 22 14:37:19 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 09:37:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: Hi, We all need to realize that while it may be true now that the subminimum wage issue doesn't impact the blind directly all that much, blind people have been very impacted by the minimum wage waivers over the years. In addition, the legislative proposals made last year that were being made as an effort to try to correct some abuses, would have made these exemptions more of a part of rehabilitation than they have been for some time. Finally, when blind people were affected, the ACB didn't support changes then, either. They sided with the agencies then saying many of the same things that those who oppose this change now are saying, that blind people would be put out into the street and that our sheltered shops just couldn't afford it. It was our pressure alone, as far as I can see, that is responsible for the fact that this issue doesn't impact us directly now. During the last part of the last century, we stood up to unfair testing that kept blind people making less money than they should have been making, and comparing the work of blind people to national averages but having those people use older machinery that was commonly used in the mainstream. From what I remember, the ACB thought we were too hard on sheltered shops at that time. The ACB's vote didn't surprise me, therefore, although I am glad to hear that some of their members wish the vote had gone the other way. People are foolish, though, if they believe this issue could not affect us again if these exemptions continue to be permitted. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:49:08 -0400, Jedi wrote: >According to an audio record of the day the resolution failed, it was >because, according to Michael Byington, their subject matter expert for >this resolution, the sub-minimum wage issue does not impact the blind; >those who are paid sub-minimum wages have multiple disabilities >including blindness where blindness is not the primary disability. >Also, subminimal wages are paid to those with severe disabilities. And >finally, Byington says that one hundred percent of NIB establishments >pay at least minimum wage to their blind production workers. The >original writer of the resolution was also not present to defend it >when it was being discussed by the committee. That is why the >resolution failed. >Respectfully, >Jedi >Original message: >> Josh, >> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>> I just have one question about this. >>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>> resolution at their convention? >>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>> Hmmm! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>> toward both of these goals? >>>> Arielle >>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>> Tyler: >>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>>> agree >>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>> campus >>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>> churches, >>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>>>> the >>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>> slightly >>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>>> that >>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>> because >>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>> disagrees >>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>>> what >>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >>>>> you. >>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>>>> do >>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>> absolutely >>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >>>>> barriers. >>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>> Quite >>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>> colored >>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>> before" >>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>>> and >>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>>> not >>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>>> that >>>>> way. >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>> dreams >>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>> reach >>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>>> life >>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>>> me >>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>> need >>>>> it. >>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>> East Carolina University >>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>> G��Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>> change >>>>> the world; indeed, itG��s the only thing that ever has.G�� G��MARGARET MEAD >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 20:51:45 2012 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:51:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist with tuition In-Reply-To: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> References: <004201cd62f4$ad318b60$0794a220$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Some university programs offer funding for such programs at the Master's level. . I would contact the programs and ask them. I know that Northern Illinois University offers such a deal having just graduated from there this past May. Take care, I hope this helps, and please feel free to write me off list if I may be of further assistance. Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Question concerning national grants to assist with tuition Hello. Can any of you provide me with a website where national grants are offered to assist with tuition? I'd like to become a teacher of the visually impaired but am finding funding difficult. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Hope Paulos _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liziswhatis%40hotmail.co m From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 20:54:31 2012 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:54:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I just want to point out that a computer can get a virus on it regardless if it is a Dell, a Toshiba or a Gateway. I.E. The make of computer won't matter in terms of viruses or not. Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] another one in the market for a new computer Hi everyone. I know there is already a thread about computers on the list, but I am also looking for a new laptop, and I have some different requirements. I have had a gateway for 2 and a half years, and there are problems with the hardware that would make it unreliable to use in school. If it has trouble turning on, I can't rely on it during class. It also freezes a lot. I have found my Gateway easy to deal with before these problems occured, but I definitely need something new. I am looking for a computer with a longer battery life(more than 3 hours). I will not buy a Dell because my previous computer was a Dell, and it got viruses every week and froze on what felt like a daily basis. I need something with good memory because I run a lot of programs at once. I will be putting a lot of assistive technology on it besides jaws such as Kurzweill, Duxbury, and the Dancing Dots software. I would love something that can last me more than two years. I am planning to go to computer stores and look around at the different models before I choose, but any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks. -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liziswhatis%40hotmail.co m From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 01:06:36 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 21:06:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Non-paying internship versus volunteer position Message-ID: <4E780FFB-DD15-4E82-9A48-A7D5AA377774@gmail.com> As the subject line indicates, I am wondering what the difference is between a non-paying internship and a volunteer position. Sent from my iPhone From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 01:31:30 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:31:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Non-paying internship versus volunteer position In-Reply-To: <4E780FFB-DD15-4E82-9A48-A7D5AA377774@gmail.com> References: <4E780FFB-DD15-4E82-9A48-A7D5AA377774@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2594A8B56E3B45D08ADE0734D45A147C@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, An Internship often comes with the expectation that you will be in line for a job in the future, or that you will get training at the job you're doing. A volunteer position often is just you giving your time to help a nonprofit. An Internship is often more professional and allows for more intensive work than a volunteer position as well. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 6:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Non-paying internship versus volunteer position As the subject line indicates, I am wondering what the difference is between a non-paying internship and a volunteer position. Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 04:22:59 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:22:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I agree with Steve. In addition, I don't think the ACB's claim that blind people aren't still affected is accurate. Our own NABS president, Sean Whalen, shared that he was employed a few summers ago at a sheltered shop and was paid well below the minimum wage. As blind students we are often unable to land the minimum-wage restaurant or office jobs our peers get, and may have no choice but to work temporarily at a sheltered shop like Sean did. Furthermore, there are many sad events that still lead some blind people to sheltered shops even if they don't have any other disabilities, including lack of education, low expectations or a lack of job development opportunities. Unfortunately, no amount of intelligence or drive will absolutely guarantee that we will never have to work in a shop in order to make ends meet. We need to fight so if that becomes our only option, even for just a few of us, that option will be a viable one that pays the minimum wage. Best, Arielle On 7/22/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Hi, > > We all need to realize that while it may be true now that the subminimum > wage issue doesn't impact the blind directly all that much, blind people > have > been very > impacted by the minimum wage waivers over the years. In addition, the > legislative proposals made last year that were being made as an effort to > try to > correct some abuses, would have made these exemptions more of a part of > rehabilitation than they have been for some time. Finally, when blind > people > were affected, the ACB didn't support changes then, either. They sided with > the agencies then saying many of the same things that those who oppose > this change now are saying, that blind people would be put out into the > street and that our sheltered shops just couldn't afford it. It was our > pressure > alone, as far as I can see, that is responsible for the fact that this issue > doesn't impact us directly now. During the last part of the last century, > we stood up > to unfair testing that kept blind people making less money than they should > have been making, and comparing the work of blind people to national > averages but having those people use older machinery that was commonly used > in the mainstream. From what I remember, the ACB thought we were too > hard on sheltered shops at that time. The ACB's vote didn't surprise me, > therefore, > although I am glad to hear that some of their members wish the vote had gone > the other way. People are foolish, though, if they believe this issue could > > not affect us again if these exemptions continue to be permitted. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:49:08 -0400, Jedi wrote: > >>According to an audio record of the day the resolution failed, it was >>because, according to Michael Byington, their subject matter expert for >>this resolution, the sub-minimum wage issue does not impact the blind; >>those who are paid sub-minimum wages have multiple disabilities >>including blindness where blindness is not the primary disability. >>Also, subminimal wages are paid to those with severe disabilities. And >>finally, Byington says that one hundred percent of NIB establishments >>pay at least minimum wage to their blind production workers. The >>original writer of the resolution was also not present to defend it >>when it was being discussed by the committee. That is why the >>resolution failed. > >>Respectfully, >>Jedi > >>Original message: >>> Josh, >>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. > >>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>> I just have one question about this. >>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>> resolution at their convention? >>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>> Hmmm! >>>> Thanks, Joshua > >>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > >>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. > >>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>> fully >>>>>> agree >>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>> hesitation >>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>>> campus >>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>> and I >>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>> churches, >>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>> slightly >>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that >>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>>> to >>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>>> the >>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>> something >>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>> because >>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>> disagrees >>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>>> of >>>>>> what >>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>>> shun >>>>>> you. > >>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>>> Why >>>>>> do >>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>> absolutely >>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>> because >>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>> those >>>>>> barriers. >>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>>> Quite >>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>> seek >>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>> many, >>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>>> me. >>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>>> before" >>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>>> in >>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>> me >>>>>> and >>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not >>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>>> it >>>>>> that >>>>>> way. > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>>> dreams >>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>>> reach >>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>> hope >>>>>> life >>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>>> to >>>>>> me >>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>>> need >>>>>> it. > >>>>>> Yours in Federationism, > >>>>>> Justin Salisbury > >>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu > >>>>>> GАЬNever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>> can >>>>>> change >>>>>> the world; indeed, itGАЩs the only thing that ever has.GАЭ >>>>>> GАФMARGARET MEAD > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 12:54:00 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:54:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting resultsandwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege References: <500b43c1.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <672CFE00B56144BFA3048EE86C450AA2@Gloria> Hi, Just a suggestion. Have you gotten tutors or gone after classes and talked to your professors to see what are your weak points and the reasons you aren't doing well in their class. I can not imagine how hurtful this must feel for you. Everyone can give you suggestions, but only you know how you feel and those who are making suggestions if they were in your situation might do something totally different than what they are suggestion. Just do the best you can and try to find reliable sources that can help you out. Do your best, thats all anyone can ask of you. Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting resultsandwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > rue. So true. Sighted students have viruses on theiir computers, but I'm > also worried about other things along with viruses. I don't know whaut > I'm going to do as soon as I find out I'm failing college for the third > time. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:06:36 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results > andwhattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, > The balloons are accessible. You didn't know that before and that's > why you were having problems. Depending on which screen reader you're > using you access the balloons in one way or another, but you should > just figure out how to do it as soon as possible so that you can > forget about this problem and go on. I have a Mac and I love it for > many reasons. It's ok to have a preference for something, but if you > already have a computer that works I don't see how you can convince > rehab to get a Mac for you at this point... As for all the viruses you > are getting this is a problem that sighted students have too. Keep > your antivirus up to date and don't browse any questionable sites! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 21, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Beth wrote: > > Tyler, > The balloons on a PC that say "click this balloon to fix the problem are > the biggest issue for me and then, when people are actually trying to help > me maintain the PC, like to keep viruses off of it, see the errors, I > don't even realize they're there. Thanks to all those errors, my hard > drive got fried. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:31:01 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results andwhatto > dotogetaworking > computerforcoll > ege > > This is something I don't get. I don't think Beth needs a Mac, and I > honestly think a lot of her problems are problems she's creating for > herself. Maybe not intentionally, but "I can't do x because of y," sort > of things. > > I also don't really agree with the "We need to do things without > computers." If computers fail, we'll have way worse issues than how to > finish a college paper. Just because Dr. Maurer may have had to chissle > his papers on a slate doesn't mean we do now. Learn how to use the > resources available and learn how to use them well. > On 7/21/2012 1:11 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Ashley, Do you think Dr. Maurer had a computer when he went to law > school? What about Dr. Tenbrook? I'm not saying it was easy in college > by no means... but I got through it. Computers are great, but what > happends when your computer doesn't work any longer? One has to learn > how to compensate. I think all these technologies we have is great, > but I think we depend on it a bit to much! I think this is something > that should be explored with the leaders in the federation, is what > was it like when their were no computers. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whatto > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Hi Rj, > > I will Answer Beth's question later. Her situation is complex and she > wants a mac for college; not only that, but she probably feels > discouraged from it too. > We all struggle with one thing or another in college. Its tough. I > was overwelmed with the pace and amount of info in college often. I > believe your tone is too harsh. We do not know her full situation, > nor should we discourage her from college. > > Everyone struggles; and many people get on academic probation. If > she wants to try again, I see no harm in it all. I also sympathize > with her because I struggled with research too; all long complex > articles. Most were pdf files not accessible, not to mention half the > time the database was not very accessible. I ended up using readers > mostly; they could skim for relevant info in these very lengthy > articles. Oh and she said books were an issue. Its true that the > library's vast amount of print periodicals and books are not > accessible. Get a reader, i say. Most stuff is electronic, but some > great info is not. I wanted to use any sources i could. Readers posed > a schedule challenge though and were not always reliable. I > definately found papers one of the more challenging aspects of college. > > So I urge you not to judge so much and our role is to show how stuff > is done. Personally, I think she should not fight so much for the > mac. I believe a windows pc will be fine for college. With all those > issues with rehab, i'd accept a windows computer and go onto school > and fight to get out of those assessments they want her to do. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Jul 21, 2012 11:39 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Beth, I have to do research for my doctorate program. I'm doing with > out a > mac. I'd like one, but I'm not in need of one right now. That's part of > college! If you can't do research, and or papers, then you're not > college > material. You have these big dreams of being a social worker, but > you're > saying the work is difficult. I'll show you difficult. Try doing a > doctorate > level class RJ! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > > Brandon, > I have difficulties with papers and research and stuff. Research and > papers are harder for me to do because books are out off the > question and > articles like on JSTOR and other databases are in PDF format and > can't be > downloaded without a steep price. Whuaft in the world! That's all > that > got on my nerves in college. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:40:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > That's exactly the goal of rehab. To get you employed. Even if it's > at a > sheltered workshop. If you work for 6 months, they will close your > case. > Then they get refunded 75% of your cost from the federal government. > That's why you have to be on top of everything, or they will push you > around. > May I ask, what difficulties were you having before in college? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I could, and that's another idea. I'd go to the library and play > with a Mac and do the on screen thingies with Voiceover. I might > talk to Metro's access office sometime Monday. I think I'll do > all that you suggest, and I'll probably have to do it while > working. But the thing is that Rehab would rather tesft my > employability skills becauase they're just interested in getting > money out of me. I don't believe they want to see me succeed in > the employment I dream about. They don't think I can handle it > because of the bipolar, and if it weren't for mental issues, I'd > have the Mac in hand and I'd be writing this email on one. I'd > probablyget one-to-one training. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:07 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, Can you apply for a Pell grant? I don't think you need > rehab to do this. > As for the "proficiency" claims, doesn't someone in rehab > understand > that you can become more proficient at a technology through > practice > and training? Proficiency isn't something like blonde hair you > either > have or don't have when you're born; it's something you can > easily > build up on. > Since the Mac is accessible out of the box, could you possibly go > to a > library, or back to CCB, or somewhere else where there is a > public > Mac, and teach yourself the basics of VoiceOver using the > on-screen > tutorials? > Arielle > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Julie won't help. They won't get me a Mac because of > proficiency. They don't realize it's maintenance that's keeping > me from wanting a PC so much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:40:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Beth, What were their reasons for not getting you a mac? Mabie > you should > talk to July Deeden. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes > as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point > because I > want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment > training, but > whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed > out or > avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and > if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support > in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and > firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, > even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > si.com > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.n > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon Jul 23 13:40:02 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 09:40:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Proactively sharing frustrations with rehab services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BB1@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> As a counselor, I just want you guys to know that most of the time a service is refused because of a supervisor or district administrator. I explain this to all of my clients, but some counselors don't bother with it because they are worried about political pressures in the office. Not all counselors are client centered which is very unfortunate. I am extremely open to criticism because I've been a client myself, but a lot of these counselors don't know where your coming from. I certainly don't get offended by this type of conversation. In fact, you guys need to advocate for yourselves as much as possible in order to create change with in these agencies. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anjelina Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 9:05 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Proactively sharing frustrations with rehab services Good morning all, It seems lately we’ve been on the topic of expressing various frustrations with rehab services or the lack of support. As a consumer of such services, I understand the frustrations and irritation everyone has shared. This is just my opinion: while we have the right to gripe to fellow students is it fair to put down these professionals who are not on list to defend themselves? I am not at all saying as students we don’t have valid claims but to questions a counselors memory span or abilities on a public forum is doing exactly what we as students feel is being done to us. We are being misjudged or misunderstood. If we as students feel our needs are not being met, rather than directly dealing with the counselors there is always a supervisor one can contact. Make sure your counselor knows your complaints and have documentation of their refusal to provide services we feel are necessary. I’m not trying to be difficult or dismissive or any of the frustrations which have been shared; I want to be as supportive rather than feed into the negativity which is quite easy to fall into. Please know I have fallen into this trap. I have always found this list to be a proactive community which challenges and supports each other. Let’s keep up the trend. Wishing all the best, Anjelina From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 13:52:57 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:52:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Proactively sharing frustrations with rehab services Message-ID: <500d5750.21d4320a.62a5.ffffd0cc@mx.google.com> So=20true.=20=20I=20don't=20think=20the=20counselors=20in=20Colorado=20are= =20too=20client=20 centered=20as=20far=20as=20I=20know.=20=20In=20my=20case,=20all=20they=20th= ink=20they=20want=20 for=20me=20is=20for=20me=20to=20succeed,=20but=20it's=20not=20so=20true=20b= ecause=20I've=20 failed=20two=20work=20experiences=20and=20college.=20=20I=20feel=20like=20a= =20nobody=20 sometimes,=20and=20all=20the=20supports=20in=20the=20world=20couldn't=20pul= l=20me=20 through=20sometimes. That's=20just=20how=20I=20feel. Beth =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Wasif,=20Zunaira"=20 References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><5774F03B-94C7-4590-960C-8EEB45D396D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BB2@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I agree that not everyone can benefit from training. In fact, the majority of my clients do not benefit nearly enough from training to become sufficiently independent. People that have been sheltered their entire lives simply can not always overcome their scarcity of experience through a year or so of training, no matter how extensive it may be. Their confidence is often not up to the challenge, and I agree that a universal approach to environmental barriers is more beneficial for these people than a strictly person centered approach. The universal approach defines disability, in my understanding, as something that exists between the person and his environment. The opposite perspective defines disability as something with in the individual. According to the universal model, blindness would not be a disability if every thing was accessible through braille and or speech. A dualistic model seems to be the best approach in my opinion, although the NFB has historically held a more person centered approach. There will always be those people who espouse an extreme view, and there will always be people who differ from each other upon where they fall along the spectrum, but your position on this one ideological principal shouldn't include or preclude you from participating in NFB because there are a lot of practical things that are being done that are beneficial. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:18 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy When seeing his name in Braille, I've never seen the B, in Tenbroek, capitalized! Blessings, Joshua On 7/21/12, Marc Workman wrote: > Hello Justin, Arielle, and others, > > I warn you at the outset that this is a very long message. I don't > want to discourage anyone from reading, it's also very good, but if > you're not interested in philosophy, Jacobus tenBroek, or obnoxious > and demeaning birds, then this isn't for you. > > Justin wrote, > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. > Why do you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an > absolutely amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor > adaptability because there's no sense in being helpless in the > meantime while we work on those barriers. > > I don't think I said that the NFB does not fight to break down barriers. > I've attended convention once, and I listened to nearly all of this > year's convention. The organization does incredible work, no doubt about that. > > I think my message contained three concerns: > > 1. No mention in Sean's account of NFB philosophy of the importance of > removing physical barriers. > > 2. The suggestion that we have two options: "we can choose to accept > it and move on, or we can wallow and wine that things aren't fair." > > 3. The concern that finding workarounds or adapting makes us less > likely to put as much effort into removing the barrier. > > The first two could be attributed to writing hastily or not stating > things quite right. That's fine, and if that's the case, then I > shouldn't have said anything. I think, though, that there is a deeper > sentiment behind what Sean wrote, an actual disagreement between my > position and that of NFB philosophy, which I'll try to spell out below, after a housekeeping point. > > Justin wrote, > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized > in retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears > me and myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal > attack. I'm not saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of > people did read it that way. > > A fair point. I meant no disrespect to Sean. I have tremendous respect > for Sean and other NABS leaders and members. I've been on this list > for a while, though, and we have actually had similar discussions in > the past multiple times, but my thinking on the matter has deepened > every time, so I did not intend to imply annoyance or frustration, > even though I recognize it came across that way. > > Arielle wrote, > However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote > universal access for blind people, we also are aware that, > realistically, it will take time for all those in power to make it > happen. In the meantime, we are also working to help blind individuals > figure out how to adapt to those barriers we are not yet able to > control. For example, we will fight for full access to educational > technology, but instead of waiting to enroll in college until this > access happens, we will also work to harness the support of human > readers and other adaptations so that we can still be successful in > spite of these barriers. In other words, instead of pitting individual > adaptation and universal design against each other as mutually > exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of these goals? > > To respond first to the question at the end, I don't think they're > mutually exclusive. I would argue that there is at least a tension > between them though. If a problem is only a problem for a few blind > people, the others having learned to deal with it, I think it's less > likely that the majority is going to be as interested in trying to > remove that problem. I have no empirical evidence to back up this claim. It seems like common sense to me. > > Now I'm not saying that we should stop trying to teach that majority > to deal with that problem. I'm saying that, when making decisions > about policy, when advocating for various positions, we shouldn't > ignore that minority. The goal should be to design a world in which > blind people can get about without first having to spend nine months > to a year working full time on blindness training. If you can get that > sort of training, that's great. I wish programs like that were > available in Canada. However, I believe we should advocate for a world > where such extensive training is not necessary. My reason for thinking > this is that not everyone is going to be capable of receiving and > benefitting from such training. Moreover, I believe, as a general > principle, in universal design, which means designing things in such a > way that as little special training and as few tools as possible are > required. I don't think the NFB, in the recent past, has held this position. > > I do think, however, that tenBroek articulates a position along these > lines in "The Right to Live in the World". > http://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/law/therighttoliveintheworldthe > disabledinthelawoftorts.html > > But it would take me a while to fully spell out my reasons for > thinking that. I'll just quote a couple of passages and leave the > fuller explanation for another day. > > "Simply declaring that the disabled, too, have rights of access and > use and forbidding building operators to deny them would do little for > the wheel chair-bound paraplegic physically denied access to and use > of flights of stairs and narrow doorways. Moreover, prohibiting the > installation of such barriers would not do the trick. A more > constructive and affirmative approach is required. Buildings and > facilities must be erected according to a design taking account of the > disabled and making buildings and facilities accessible to them and functional for them." > > So it's not just a prohibition against denying a person the right to > enter a building, nor is it a matter of simply not building barriers, > what tenBroek advocates is building things in a way that makes them > accessible to disabled people and functional for them. I would argue, > too, that tenBroek would not have included the caveat: accessible to > them and functional for them, assuming they are sufficiently trained > in the skills of blindness. Here is another passage. > > "Apparently, thus, in England, despite the talk about bringing the law > up to date, the street- tampering defendant is entitled to assume that > blind pedestrians will be trained in the use of a cane which they will > carry, and that a light, moveable, rail fence will be detected by the > cane user in time for him to stop. The holding of the Haley case goes > no further than the facts of the case require; not nearly as far as the facts of life require. > Only a minor fraction of the blind are trained and skillful in the use > of the cane; a somewhat larger percentage, but still very small, use canes. > What about the rest? Are they condemned to a life of ostracism? 'One > is entitled to expect of a blind person,' said Lord Reid in the Haley > case, 'a high degree of skill and care because none but the most > foolhardy would venture to go out alone without having that skill and > exercising that care.'" > > I'm sure that tenBroek would have approved of increasing the > percentage of blind people who are trained with a cane, but I suspect > he would have encourage policy makers, courts, designers, etc not > simply to assume that all blind people will be so trained. The right > to live in the world, I'm suggesting, is not and should not be limited > only to those who have received proper training. > > Arielle said that NFB increasingly takes the approach of promoting > individual coping while advocating for the removal of barriers. I'm > not sure I've seen enough to call it a trend, but it was interesting > to hear what sounded to me like a softening of NFB's position on > accessible pedestrian signals during Lauren McLarney speech to the > general session. Here's the exact quote. > >> "What we're trying to do is make sure that if audible pedestrian >> signals are meant to make audible output for blind people... that >> those sounds are not demeaning, they're not birds chirping, there's >> not obnoxious beeping, that it's reasonable, and it says `walk' or `don't walk'"." > > There now at least seems to be the acceptance that these signals can > be useful. The concern now is that the standard sounds are obnoxious > and demeaning. I think that's progress from 2003, where the NFB > position was that, and I'm quoting again, > > "Audible traffic signals are in many instances a disadvantage because > they add so much noise pollution to the environment that listening to > traffic becomes difficult. However, they may be installed at complex > intersections where they will assist in the comprehension of complex traffic patterns." > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm > > I've never heard signals that were so loud as to drown out traffic, > and when they are that loud, they're clearly badly designed. They're > also not useful only in cases where traffic patterns are complex, > unless heavy north-south traffic and light east-west traffic and vice versa is counted as complex. > And if that is complex, that covers quite a few intersections around me. > > Again, though, the underlying position seemed to be: a properly > trained blind person can cross streets just fine, so don't bother > installing those signals that might make crossing streets safer for > some blind people, especially because, quoting again, > > "It is dangerous to ask for modifications to the environment that we > do not need, and it leads to an impression that blind people lack competence." > http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030102.htm > > What counts as needed or not is going to depend very much on a variety > of factors, previous training, creativeness, intelligence, presence or > absence of other disabilities, and so on, and when advocating, the > threshold for something's not being necessary should be set very high. > I would also say that the response to misunderstandings about the > installation of APSs should be met with campaigns to educate the > public, rather than with refusing potentially useful changes to the > environment on the grounds that some people might misinterpret why those changes were made. > > I hope I've been able to articulate the different views about > individual and environmental adaptation and why I hold one and not the other. > > For anyone still reading, good for you. I probably would have hit > delete a while back. > > Cheers, > > Marc > On 2012-07-19, at 10:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >> of blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken >> differing approaches to some policy issues, but that does not >> necessarily mean that their core philosophies of blindness are at >> odds. I don't think the two organizations should merge into one >> super-organization of blind Americans because I like the fact that >> individuals have choices about which organization to join and that >> there's not one big group monopolizing the organizational stage. But >> I also think that the NFB and ACB have more in common in terms of >> their goals for changing what it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years >> I have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >> increasingly takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both >> individual coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring >> them down. I would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once >> they become available online, and you will find that most of these >> resolutions address access barriers in one form or another and >> advocate for their removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in >> the direction of pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on >> this front even since the time when I first joined nine years ago. >> However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote >> universal access for blind people, we also are aware that, >> realistically, it will take time for all those in power to make it >> happen. In the meantime, we are also working to help blind >> individuals figure out how to adapt to those barriers we are not yet >> able to control. For example, we will fight for full access to >> educational technology, but instead of waiting to enroll in college >> until this access happens, we will also work to harness the support >> of human readers and other adaptations so that we can still be >> successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, instead of >> pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other >> as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of these goals? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>> >>> Tyler: >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>> fully agree with everything that everyone else believes. I once had >>> that hesitation about getting involved with organized religion. I >>> started going to a campus ministry at my college because a friend >>> sold me on the free dinner, and I quickly learned that no church is >>> homogenous in beliefs. In some churches, the leadership will try >>> like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in the church believes >>> exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees slightly is >>> against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>> that people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>> okay to disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>> generally the same core beliefs. >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>> something we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms >>> with it because that's my individual personality. I often find >>> that, when someone disagrees with something we're doing, it is >>> because of a lack of understanding of what we're doing or the >>> underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun you. >>> >>> Marc Workman: >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>> Why do you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is >>> an absolutely amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor >>> adaptability because there's no sense in being helpless in the >>> meantime while we work on those barriers. >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>> colored person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, >>> and I don't bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>> Quite >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>> colored person. With the first generation college student part, I >>> have to seek mentors in the academic process from outside my family, >>> and I know many, many educated Federationists who have eagerly >>> fulfilled that role for me. >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>> realized in retrospect that it only creates distance between >>> everyone who hears me and myself. A lot of people take that as an >>> implied personal attack. I'm not saying Sean took it that way, but >>> I'm sure plenty of people did read it that way. >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>> dreams and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for >>> people to reach for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there >>> is hope. With hope life always has enough energy to turn the corner >>> and keep going. The NFB to me is that hope and the rock and refuge >>> that is always there for me if I need it. >>> >>> Yours in Federationism, >>> >>> Justin Salisbury >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>> can change >>> the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40 >> gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud > ents.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 14:27:50 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 09:27:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Proactively sharing frustrations with rehab services References: <500d5750.21d4320a.62a5.ffffd0cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <456AD32C11194E12B9DDD5DBBBB55AE6@Gloria> Hi, I am sorry you feel that way. I would be willing to talk to you off line if you like. I feel we could all use someone to talk to befcause life is hard, school is hard, finding a job is hard, and being blind is hard. These things by themselves are difficult and putting them together is even more trying. I know you feel down at times and feel others are pushing you futurthur down, but just know there ae people out there who are willing to talk to you and help you through these trying times. I am will ing to talk to you off list if you lik and we can talk about school and how I did and am doing things and what resources and adaptations I use if you like. My email address is gloria.graves at gmail.com I would hate to see you give up on your dreams. I would be willing to talk to you. Please hang in there. you can do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Proactively sharing frustrations with rehab services So true. I don't think the counselors in Colorado are too client centered as far as I know. In my case, all they think they want for me is for me to succeed, but it's not so true because I've failed two work experiences and college. I feel like a nobody sometimes, and all the supports in the world couldn't pull me through sometimes. That's just how I feel. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wasif, Zunaira" _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 19:24:16 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:24:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008301cd6908$c1eaae50$45c00af0$@gmail.com> Please see below: -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise M Robinson Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:21 PM To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List; NFB Science and Engineering Division List Subject: [nfbcs] script writers If you consider yourself a great script writer and have written scripts for Jaws successfully, please contact me off list. -- *Denise* Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. CEO, TechVision, LLC Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision 509-674-1853 Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." --Chinese Proverb Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond imagination. --Albert Einstein It's kind of fun to do the impossible. --Walt Disney _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gm ail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 20:41:51 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:41:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <25FECE7BF8D04E37AB527667EE23A381@OwnerPC> Beth, I finally read more messages. I've totten over 150 of them in the past few days. A busy list. It sounds like you want more than a mac. First, you need justifications. It seems like you already have a working pc. Why can't you use that in college? Keep in mind that most job applications list windows based programs as qualifications; such as microsoft office suite applications including word, excel, and powerpoint. also ability to use outlook, calendar, conduct internet research, use their database and more. I say this not to discourage you from your mac pursuit, but I believe anything you fight for in rehab needs to serve a good purpose. If you really feel its appropriate, tell them why. What are the pros to a mac not on the windows pc? How will you benefit from a mac in college? Then if they say no, do as you would for other disagreements. First get it in writing. Second, Talk to your counselor's supervisor. Third, if you get no result, get an advocate involved. I suggest working with your state client assistance program. In fact, I may need cap too as I'm not getting the services I need either. Also, in the future, you need to take more steps in meetings if you haven't already. Its your program, not theirs. Tell them your employment goal and how you want to get there. Importantly, take notes in meetings. Better yet, have it recorded with permission! If meeting A was unsuccessful, then in meeting B take an advocate or witness with you. This is where family helps IMO, as long as they will advocate with you. They can be there as an advocate and/or witness. If no witness is present, then just take notes and record meetings. As to your other concerns, I'm not sure what they are doing is legal. This is where the advocate from cap will come in. I fail to see how they can force you to participate in some work assessments if that isn't toward your employment goal. Tell them no and go to college. Finally, I believe you need to address your academic deficits to help you succeed next round in college. I'd urge you to visit professor's office hours for tutoring, use your school's tutoring center, and make an outline when you need to study. I have no clue why you had bad grades and got on academic probation. But often it is due to not studying adaquately for exams. You mentioned issues with research papers. I urge you to hire a reader to assist you skim texts in the library and use your school databases with jaws and readers. Then after you write your paper, take it to your school's writing center if you have one and they give feedback on it. Also, what helped my grades in papers is to revise, rewrite, and rewrite. Do not! do one quick draft and turn in! You need to make multiple drafts and work hard on them. Papers take a lot of work to do well on them and many students just throw things on paper and random quotes and turn in. You might want to outline your papers first. One more tip is I do not always write my introduction to the paper first. Instead I write the body and then I know what it says. Based on that I write my introduction. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:01 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? Thanks, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brlsurfer at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 20:44:35 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:44:35 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question Message-ID: <500db7bb.0484440a.0664.1fb2@mx.google.com> Hi, I am beginning to learn how to use the ipad. I am using my braillenote apex to act as a display, and therefore use the braille note keyboard to control the ipad. I had 2 questions. My first question is, when I open up IBooks, Voice-Over reads the book, but it doesn't appear on the Braille display. How do I get the text of the book on the display? Second, how do you go into a text field? Thanks, Vejas From herrinar at muohio.edu Mon Jul 23 20:59:40 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Amber R. Herrin) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:59:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question In-Reply-To: <500db7bb.0484440a.0664.1fb2@mx.google.com> References: <500db7bb.0484440a.0664.1fb2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00c401cd6916$14af6b50$3e0e41f0$@muohio.edu> Hello, I am unsure as to why you are having problems reading in iBooks, as my fiancée has read using his Apex without difficulty, but I can say that opening an edit field is as simple as pressing a cursor router button located above text that is part of the title of the field. As I recall, cursor router buttons that lack characters below them will not activate the field. HTH, Amber -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vejas Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:45 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question Hi, I am beginning to learn how to use the ipad. I am using my braillenote apex to act as a display, and therefore use the braille note keyboard to control the ipad. I had 2 questions. My first question is, when I open up IBooks, Voice-Over reads the book, but it doesn't appear on the Braille display. How do I get the text of the book on the display? Second, how do you go into a text field? Thanks, Vejas _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From brlsurfer at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:05:56 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:05:56 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question Message-ID: <500dbcbd.c97d440a.6401.2da7@mx.google.com> Hi Amber, In IBooks I was having problems getting the display to show the book, but Voice-Over still worked. Does your fiancée use voice-over or does he read using the display? Vejas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><348C2208153A441C8F9D52162A8D7370@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <160C2C84F7024074BF985E1EA67BC674@OwnerPC> Josh, First, his last name is spelled wrong. Second, Second, I think based on comments from other lists that he is staying with ACB. As to who is joining whom, unless you have stats to back it up, I suspect that organization membership is declining. This because not enough young people are involved in NFB and old members are dying out. I saw on nfb-talk that two or maybe three members just passed away. A few members in my state have passed too such as Sevelle Allen. Leaders seem to retire and pass away or move away. So really, I'm not so sure nfb membership is increasing so much as to shout about it like we're better than ACB. I just don't think young generations join advocacy groups as much, even if they're blind. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Well: the good thing is, that people are leaving the ACB, and joining us, because they realize that we're right. Think about Mike Coppell, (one of their prized members,) who has just left them, and joined us! Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages and > frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something that will > make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than minimum wage > is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages. > Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both wrong? > As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this last year, > we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we know we are > right, we will win. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Arielle: that was a great post. > I just have one question about this. > If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not > Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > resolution at their convention? > Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the > federally mandated minimum wage. > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >> excellent. I would also add two things: >> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >> >> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >> toward both of these goals? >> Arielle >> >> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>> >>> Tyler: >>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>> agree >>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>> campus >>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>> I >>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>> churches, >>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >>> the >>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>> slightly >>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>> that >>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>> the >>> same core beliefs. >>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>> because >>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>> disagrees >>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>> what >>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>> shun >>> you. >>> >>> Marc Workman: >>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >>> do >>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>> absolutely >>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>> because >>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>> those >>> barriers. >>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>> Quite >>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>> colored >>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>> me. >>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>> before" >>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>> and >>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>> not >>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>> that >>> way. >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>> dreams >>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>> reach >>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>> life >>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>> me >>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>> need >>> it. >>> >>> Yours in Federationism, >>> >>> Justin Salisbury >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:12:27 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:12:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <9A905774C5754EB18A2EBA41A0A352C0@OwnerPC> Joshua and all, a note on currency, ACB won there. I disagree with them too. They claim we are discriminated against because money isn't accessible. We can use money and buy anything we want like all other people. No discrimination there. But accessible currency will happen. I believe I heard they will phase in accessible currency as each bill is redisigned. So It will happen. It may take 30 plus years, but its happening and NFB is having a say in the design of it. It was in a press release a while back. No need to debate currency because it will be accessible eventually. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:20 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Well, did you attend the convention? You should know! I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the blind, but they vote against fair wages. BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of the IBill out of business. Blessings, Joshua On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Josh, > Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you > should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been > things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. > > On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Arielle: that was a great post. >> I just have one question about this. >> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >> resolution at their convention? >> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >> federally mandated minimum wage. >> Hmmm! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>> >>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>> toward both of these goals? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>> >>>> Tyler: >>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >>>> agree >>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>> hesitation >>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>> campus >>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and >>>> I >>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>> churches, >>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>> in >>>> the >>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>> slightly >>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >>>> that >>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>> the >>>> same core beliefs. >>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>> because >>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>> disagrees >>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >>>> what >>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>> shun >>>> you. >>>> >>>> Marc Workman: >>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>> Why >>>> do >>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>> absolutely >>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>> because >>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>> those >>>> barriers. >>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>> colored >>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>> Quite >>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>> colored >>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>> many, >>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>> me. >>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>> before" >>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>> in >>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >>>> and >>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >>>> not >>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >>>> that >>>> way. >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>> dreams >>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>> reach >>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >>>> life >>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >>>> me >>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>> need >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>> >>>> Justin Salisbury >>>> >>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>> Class of 2012 >>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>> East Carolina University >>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>> >>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>> change >>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>> MEAD >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brlsurfer at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:12:58 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:12:58 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: <500dbe63.28d4440a.631e.2703@mx.google.com> What=20is=20the=20ABC? Vejas =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20=20 wrote: =20Hello, =20Possibly=20because=20the=20NFB=20is=20such=20a=20huge=20pusher=20to=20th= e=20fair=20wages=20 and =20frankly,=20they=20probably=20saw=20the=20unfair=20wages=20as=20hardly=20= something=20 that=20will =20make=20a=20difference.=20=20Also,=20I=20believe=20another=20voat=20for=20= less=20than=20 minimum=20wage =20is=20that=20one=20can=20stay=20on=20SSI=20while=20getting=20lower=20than= =20fair=20wages. =20Every=20side=20thinks=20they=20are=20right,=20so=20does=20that=20make=20= them=20both=20 wrong? =20As=20pointed=20out=20at=20the=20banquet=20speech=20at=20the=20NFB=20conv= ention=20this=20 last=20year, =20we=20can=20only=20try=20our=20hardest=20to=20be=20the=20victors,=20and=20= because=20we=20 know=20we=20are =20right,=20we=20will=20win. =20Thanks, =20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs =20-----Original=20Message----- =20From:=20Joshua=20Lester =20Sent:=20Thursday,=20July=2019,=202012=209:30=20PM =20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list =20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20NFB=20Philosophy =20Arielle:=20that=20was=20a=20great=20post. =20I=20just=20have=20one=20question=20about=20this. =20If=20our=20philosophies=20aren't=20at=20odds,=20then=20why=20did=20the=20= ACB=20vote,=20 "Do=20Not =20Pass,"=20on=20the=20"Fair=20Wages=20for=20Workers=20with=20Disabilities= =20Act," =20resolution=20at=20their=20convention? =20Evidently,=20they're=20okay=20with=20disabled=20workers=20being=20paid=20= below=20 the =20federally=20mandated=20minimum=20wage. =20Hmmm! =20Thanks,=20Joshua =20On=207/19/12,=20Arielle=20Silverman=20=20wrote: =20Hi=20all, =20I=20think=20Sean's=20description=20of=20"NFB=20philosophy"=20as=20he=20s= ees=20it=20was =20excellent.=20=20I=20would=20also=20add=20two=20things: =201.=20=20I=20don't=20think=20the=20NFB=20has=20a=20patent=20on=20this=20p= hilosophy.=20=20In=20 fact,=20I =20would=20argue=20that=20most=20committed=20ACB=20members=20and=20many=20o= ther=20 successful =20blind=20people=20who=20choose=20not=20to=20affiliate=20with=20organizati= ons=20also =20espouse=20the=20positive=20philosophy=20of=20blindness=20that=20Sean=20 described.=20=20The =20NFB=20has=20chosen=20to=20make=20this=20philosophy=20a=20central=20focus= ,=20but=20that=20 does =20not=20mean=20that=20non-NFB=20members=20cannot=20live=20by=20it=20themse= lves=20or =20encourage=20others=20to=20accept=20it.=20=20It=20is=20important=20to=20r= emember=20that=20 the =20ACB=20split=20off=20from=20the=20NFB,=20and=20although=20I=20am=20not=20= an=20expert=20on=20 what =20happened,=20everything=20I've=20read=20about=20the=20split=20suggests=20= that=20it =20occurred=20because=20of=20disagreements=20about=20how=20leadership=20in= =20the =20organization=20should=20be=20structured,=20not=20about=20fundamental=20 philosophy=20of =20blindness.=20=20In=20more=20recent=20years=20the=20NFB=20and=20ACB=20hav= e=20taken=20 differing =20approaches=20to=20some=20policy=20issues,=20but=20that=20does=20not=20ne= cessarily=20 mean =20that=20their=20core=20philosophies=20of=20blindness=20are=20at=20odds.=20= =20I=20don't=20 think =20the=20two=20organizations=20should=20merge=20into=20one=20super-organiza= tion=20 of =20blind=20Americans=20because=20I=20like=20the=20fact=20that=20individuals= =20have=20 choices =20about=20which=20organization=20to=20join=20and=20that=20there's=20not=20= one=20big=20 group =20monopolizing=20the=20organizational=20stage.=20=20But=20I=20also=20think= =20that=20 the=20NFB =20and=20ACB=20have=20more=20in=20common=20in=20terms=20of=20their=20goals= =20for=20changing=20 what =20it=20means=20to=20be=20blind=20than=20we=20might=20think=20on=20first=20= glance. =202.=20=20To=20address=20Marc's=20point=20about=20universal=20design:=20In= =20the=20nine=20 years=20I =20have=20been=20a=20part=20of=20the=20NFB,=20I=20have=20observed=20that=20= the=20NFB=20 increasingly =20takes=20a=20pragmatic=20dualistic=20approach=20to=20promoting=20both=20 individual =20coping=20with=20accessibility=20barriers=20and=20advocacy=20to=20bring=20= them=20 down.=20=20I =20would=20urge=20you=20to=20read=20the=20NFB=202012=20resolutions=20once=20= they=20become =20available=20online,=20and=20you=20will=20find=20that=20most=20of=20these= =20 resolutions =20address=20access=20barriers=20in=20one=20form=20or=20another=20and=20adv= ocate=20for=20 their =20removal.=20=20I=20believe=20the=20NFB=20is=20moving=20further=20in=20the= =20direction=20 of =20pushing=20for=20accessibility=20and=20I=20have=20seen=20change=20on=20th= is=20front=20 even =20since=20the=20time=20when=20I=20first=20joined=20nine=20years=20ago.=20= =20However,=20 though=20we =20are=20committed=20to=20doing=20what=20we=20can=20to=20promote=20universa= l=20access=20 for =20blind=20people,=20we=20also=20are=20aware=20that,=20realistically,=20it= =20will=20 take=20time =20for=20all=20those=20in=20power=20to=20make=20it=20happen.=20=20In=20the= =20meantime,=20we=20 are=20also =20working=20to=20help=20blind=20individuals=20figure=20out=20how=20to=20ad= apt=20to=20 those =20barriers=20we=20are=20not=20yet=20able=20to=20control.=20=20For=20exampl= e,=20we=20will=20 fight =20for=20full=20access=20to=20educational=20technology,=20but=20instead=20o= f=20 waiting=20to =20enroll=20in=20college=20until=20this=20access=20happens,=20we=20will=20a= lso=20work=20 to =20harness=20the=20support=20of=20human=20readers=20and=20other=20adaptatio= ns=20so=20 that=20we =20can=20still=20be=20successful=20in=20spite=20of=20these=20barriers.=20=20= In=20other=20 words, =20instead=20of=20pitting=20individual=20adaptation=20and=20universal=20des= ign=20 against =20each=20other=20as=20mutually=20exclusive=20options,=20why=20not=20take=20= a=20dual=20 approach =20toward=20both=20of=20these=20goals? =20Arielle =20On=207/19/12,=20Justin=20Salisbury=20=20wrote:= =20I=20have=20a=20few=20notes=20for=20a=20few=20different=20people=20on=20t= his=20thread. =20Tyler: =20I=20understand=20the=20hesitancy=20about=20getting=20involved=20when=20y= ou=20don't=20 fully =20agree =20with=20everything=20that=20everyone=20else=20believes.=20=20I=20once=20h= ad=20that=20 hesitation =20about=20getting=20involved=20with=20organized=20religion.=20=20I=20start= ed=20going=20 to=20a =20campus =20ministry=20at=20my=20college=20because=20a=20friend=20sold=20me=20on=20t= he=20free=20 dinner,=20and =20I =20quickly=20learned=20that=20no=20church=20is=20homogenous=20in=20beliefs.= =20=20In=20 some =20churches, =20the=20leadership=20will=20try=20like=20mad=20to=20perpetuate=20the=20ide= a=20that=20 everyone=20in =20the =20church=20believes=20exactly=20what=20they=20do=20and=20that=20anyone=20w= ho=20 disagrees =20slightly =20is=20against=20them.=20=20In=20my=20church,=20we=20aren't=20like=20that,= =20and=20we=20 understand =20that =20people=20have=20differing=20views.=20=20We=20unite=20under=20the=20idea= =20that=20it's=20 okay=20to =20disagree=20on=20individual=20issues=20and=20discuss=20them,=20but=20we=20= have=20 generally =20the =20same=20core=20beliefs. =20That's=20how=20we=20are=20in=20the=20Federation.=20=20If=20you=20don't=20= agree=20with=20 something =20we're=20doing,=20I'll=20make=20an=20effort=20to=20help=20you=20come=20to= =20terms=20with=20 it =20because =20that's=20my=20individual=20personality.=20=20I=20often=20find=20that,=20= when=20 someone =20disagrees =20with=20something=20we're=20doing,=20it=20is=20because=20of=20a=20lack=20= of=20 understanding=20of =20what =20we're=20doing=20or=20the=20underlying=20issue.=20=20At=20the=20end=20of= =20the=20day,=20I=20 won't =20shun =20you. =20Marc=20Workman: =20=20Of=20course=20we,=20in=20the=20Federation,=20fight=20to=20break=20dow= n=20the=20 barriers.=20=20Why =20do =20you=20think=20we=20do=20legislative=20lobbying?=20=20Washington=20Semina= r=20is=20an =20absolutely =20amazing=20experience,=20and=20you=20should=20try=20it!=20=20We=20honor=20= adaptability =20because =20there's=20no=20sense=20in=20being=20helpless=20in=20the=20meantime=20whi= le=20we=20work=20 on =20those =20barriers. =20On=20the=20mention=20of=20Sean's=20place=20in=20social=20stratification:= =20=20I=20am=20a=20 colored =20person,=20I'm=20the=20first=20person=20in=20my=20family=20to=20go=20to=20= college,=20and=20 I=20don't =20bother=20wallowing=20in=20the=20lack=20of=20advantage=20that=20I=20face= =20because=20of=20 it. =20Quite =20frankly,=20I'm=20not=20even=20convinced=20that=20I=20am=20disadvantaged= =20by=20being=20 a =20colored =20person.=20=20With=20the=20first=20generation=20college=20student=20part,= =20I=20have=20 to=20seek =20mentors=20in=20the=20academic=20process=20from=20outside=20my=20family,= =20and=20I=20 know=20many, =20many=20educated=20Federationists=20who=20have=20eagerly=20fulfilled=20th= at=20 role=20for =20me. =20Lastly,=20I've=20made=20comments=20like=20"i've=20had=20this=20conversat= ion=20with=20 you =20before" =20in=20a=20public=20manner=20to=20other=20people-trust=20me,=20I=20have-bu= t=20I've=20 realized=20in =20retrospect=20that=20it=20only=20creates=20distance=20between=20everyone= =20who=20 hears=20me =20and =20myself.=20=20A=20lot=20of=20people=20take=20that=20as=20an=20implied=20p= ersonal=20 attack.=20=20I'm =20not =20saying=20Sean=20took=20it=20that=20way,=20but=20I'm=20sure=20plenty=20of= =20people=20did=20 read=20it =20that =20way. =20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs,=20I=20loved=20reading=20this=20part=20of=20your= =20email: =20In=20my=20book,=20there=20is=20no=20larger=20crime=20than=20depriving=20= someone=20of=20 their =20dreams =20and=20the=20second=20biggest=20crime=20is=20taking=20away=20the=20chance= =20for=20 people=20to =20reach =20for=20those=20dreams.=20=20For=20while=20there=20are=20dreams,=20there=20= is=20hope.=20=20 With=20hope =20life =20always=20has=20enough=20energy=20to=20turn=20the=20corner=20and=20keep=20= going.=20=20The=20 NFB=20to =20me =20is=20that=20hope=20and=20the=20rock=20and=20refuge=20that=20is=20always= =20there=20for=20me=20 if=20I =20need =20it. =20Yours=20in=20Federationism, =20Justin=20Salisbury =20Justin=20M.=20=20Salisbury =20Class=20of=202012 =20B.A.=20=20in=20Mathematics =20East=20Carolina=20University =20president at alumni.ecu.edu =20=93Never=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20committ= ed=20 citizens=20can =20change =20the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=92s=20the=20only=20thing=20that=20ever=20has= .=94=20=20=20=20 =97MARGARET=20MEAD =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com =20_______________________________________________ =20nabs-l=20mailing=20list =20nabs-l at nfbnet.org =20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org =20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a= ccount=20 info=20for =20nabs-l: =20 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink..net _______________________________________________ nabs-l=20mailing=20list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco= unt=20info=20 for=20nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g mail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:13:14 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 14:13:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <25FECE7BF8D04E37AB527667EE23A381@OwnerPC> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <25FECE7BF8D04E37AB527667EE23A381@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello, Another tip in college that I find is the largest sign of non passing students is not showing up. I never miss class unless I'm auditioning for college or scholarships. Even then, if my teacher says please don't miss, I try my darned hardest to get that audition time changed! The fact of college is that if someone misses class, they fail. No avoiding that fact. Even coming in late is better than not coming in at all. Even if you are singled out and yelled at by the teacher, it's still better than missing. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 1:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college Beth, I finally read more messages. I've totten over 150 of them in the past few days. A busy list. It sounds like you want more than a mac. First, you need justifications. It seems like you already have a working pc. Why can't you use that in college? Keep in mind that most job applications list windows based programs as qualifications; such as microsoft office suite applications including word, excel, and powerpoint. also ability to use outlook, calendar, conduct internet research, use their database and more. I say this not to discourage you from your mac pursuit, but I believe anything you fight for in rehab needs to serve a good purpose. If you really feel its appropriate, tell them why. What are the pros to a mac not on the windows pc? How will you benefit from a mac in college? Then if they say no, do as you would for other disagreements. First get it in writing. Second, Talk to your counselor's supervisor. Third, if you get no result, get an advocate involved. I suggest working with your state client assistance program. In fact, I may need cap too as I'm not getting the services I need either. Also, in the future, you need to take more steps in meetings if you haven't already. Its your program, not theirs. Tell them your employment goal and how you want to get there. Importantly, take notes in meetings. Better yet, have it recorded with permission! If meeting A was unsuccessful, then in meeting B take an advocate or witness with you. This is where family helps IMO, as long as they will advocate with you. They can be there as an advocate and/or witness. If no witness is present, then just take notes and record meetings. As to your other concerns, I'm not sure what they are doing is legal. This is where the advocate from cap will come in. I fail to see how they can force you to participate in some work assessments if that isn't toward your employment goal. Tell them no and go to college. Finally, I believe you need to address your academic deficits to help you succeed next round in college. I'd urge you to visit professor's office hours for tutoring, use your school's tutoring center, and make an outline when you need to study. I have no clue why you had bad grades and got on academic probation. But often it is due to not studying adaquately for exams. You mentioned issues with research papers. I urge you to hire a reader to assist you skim texts in the library and use your school databases with jaws and readers. Then after you write your paper, take it to your school's writing center if you have one and they give feedback on it. Also, what helped my grades in papers is to revise, rewrite, and rewrite. Do not! do one quick draft and turn in! You need to make multiple drafts and work hard on them. Papers take a lot of work to do well on them and many students just throw things on paper and random quotes and turn in. You might want to outline your papers first. One more tip is I do not always write my introduction to the paper first. Instead I write the body and then I know what it says. Based on that I write my introduction. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:01 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? Thanks, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:16:39 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:16:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <0F71D3A06CF14B65BDCB715B88820EBF@OwnerPC> Joshua, ACB fights for many things we do. As to that fair wages thing, Jedi answered it to some extent. You can read the resolutions and listen to the debate for ACB on their website and answer that question yourself. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Arielle: that was a great post. I just have one question about this. If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," resolution at their convention? Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the federally mandated minimum wage. Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > excellent. I would also add two things: > 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I > would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful > blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The > NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does > not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the > ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what > happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of > blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing > approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean > that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think > the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of > blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices > about which organization to join and that there's not one big group > monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB > and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what > it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > > 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I > have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly > takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual > coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I > would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions > address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their > removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of > pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even > since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we > are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for > blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time > for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those > barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to > enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to > harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, > instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against > each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach > toward both of these goals? > Arielle > > On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >> >> Tyler: >> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully >> agree >> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation >> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >> campus >> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I >> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >> churches, >> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in >> the >> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >> slightly >> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand >> that >> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to >> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the >> same core beliefs. >> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something >> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >> because >> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >> disagrees >> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of >> what >> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun >> you. >> >> Marc Workman: >> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why >> do >> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >> absolutely >> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because >> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those >> barriers. >> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored >> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't >> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >> Quite >> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >> colored >> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek >> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, >> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. >> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >> before" >> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in >> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me >> and >> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm >> not >> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it >> that >> way. >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >> dreams >> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >> reach >> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope >> life >> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to >> me >> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >> need >> it. >> >> Yours in Federationism, >> >> Justin Salisbury >> >> Justin M. Salisbury >> Class of 2012 >> B.A. in Mathematics >> East Carolina University >> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >> change >> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:21:35 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:21:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Tyler, good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my state, they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but I've never heard of them going the apple route. So I think it will be hard to get one. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just get a pc. On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this > in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the > adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding > in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have > a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a > technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be > dependable and has the best support in the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want > in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and > firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, > even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the > key and independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:24:05 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:24:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com><5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <3F9D250D352F4FC49236AA9703B69B37@OwnerPC> Joshua, most countries have accessible money. why not research how they do it to answer a question what makes currency accessible? From what I heard, they have different sized bank notes. None have braille; impractical because it would get smashed; and more importantly not all blind people read braille. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled currency. What is your idea of accessible currency? I'm curious! Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general > session from 8 to 5. > But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever > reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure > don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your > logic is flawless, my friend. > On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Well, did you attend the convention? >> You should know! >> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >> the IBill out of business. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Josh, >>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, you >>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>> >>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>> I just have one question about this. >>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not >>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>> resolution at their convention? >>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>> Hmmm! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I >>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful >>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The >>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does >>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of >>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing >>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean >>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think >>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices >>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB >>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what >>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>> >>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I >>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly >>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I >>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their >>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we >>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time >>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also >>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to >>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we >>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against >>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach >>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>> fully >>>>>> agree >>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>> hesitation >>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a >>>>>> campus >>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, >>>>>> and >>>>>> I >>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>> churches, >>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>> slightly >>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that >>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay >>>>>> to >>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally >>>>>> the >>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>> something >>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>> because >>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>> disagrees >>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding >>>>>> of >>>>>> what >>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't >>>>>> shun >>>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. >>>>>> Why >>>>>> do >>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>> absolutely >>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>> because >>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on >>>>>> those >>>>>> barriers. >>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. >>>>>> Quite >>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>> colored >>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>> seek >>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>> many, >>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for >>>>>> me. >>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you >>>>>> before" >>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized >>>>>> in >>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears >>>>>> me >>>>>> and >>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not >>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read >>>>>> it >>>>>> that >>>>>> way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their >>>>>> dreams >>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to >>>>>> reach >>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>> hope >>>>>> life >>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB >>>>>> to >>>>>> me >>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I >>>>>> need >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>> change >>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>> MEAD >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From lily2011a at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:25:37 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:25:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences In-Reply-To: <500b5fa8.8822320a.2e7f.5829@mx.google.com> References: <500b5fa8.8822320a.2e7f.5829@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, I pray for all those who have lost someone during that horible attack. My friend Julie almost went to that movie theater that very night, but instead saw an opening at her local AMC theater in Westminster Co. and she and her friend decided to go to that one to see the premeer instead. Thank you God. Lily On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: > Oh, thanks, Roanna. I'm in Denver, and they're al in Aurora, but > I think I remember seeing a movie at that same theater if I > remember correctly. > beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roanna Baccchus To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:44:23 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences > > Hello to everyone in Colorado > > Our thoughts and prayers go out to those victims who lost loved > ones in the terrible shooting. I'm truly sorry for the loss > you've suffered and the pain you've endured. My prayers are with > the many families who are trying to locate loved ones. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:27:34 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:27:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A question for Mac users In-Reply-To: <-2963949219218263024@unknownmsgid> References: <-2963949219218263024@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <26E70C0FAE6C4879B236659DA8553778@OwnerPC> Ignasi, so then what you are saying is flash isn't accessible via mac or pc. groan. when I get a flash site, all I hear is flash content start, then, flash content end. I'd like adobe flash to be accessible! Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 4:49 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A question for Mac users Flash content is not accessible with VO at this time. Adobe promissed to make it accessible at some point but it hasn't happened yet. We'll see what happens... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > How does Voice Over handle flash based sites like this one, on the Mac? > http://www.altitudeworship.com > Jaws reads this site, this way! > "Flash movie start, flash movie end." > "FB frame, etc." > The links aren't readable, by the screenreader! > Does Voice Over do the same, on the Mac computers? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Jul 23 21:31:08 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:31:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences In-Reply-To: References: <500b5fa8.8822320a.2e7f.5829@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Wow! That's like a testimony from a friend of mine, that worked at the World Trade Center. He didn't feel like going to work, on Septimber 11th, 2001, so he stayed home. Because of that, he was spared. God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform. I know this is off topic for the list, but I believe we can put all of this aside, to honor the victems. Blessings, Joshua On 7/23/12, Liliya Asadullina wrote: > Yes, I pray for all those who have lost someone during that horible attack. > My friend Julie almost went to that movie theater that very night, but > instead saw an opening at her local AMC theater in Westminster Co. and > she and her friend decided to go to that one to see the premeer > instead. > Thank you God. > Lily > > On 7/21/12, Beth wrote: >> Oh, thanks, Roanna. I'm in Denver, and they're al in Aurora, but >> I think I remember seeing a movie at that same theater if I >> remember correctly. >> beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Roanna Baccchus > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:44:23 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences >> >> Hello to everyone in Colorado >> >> Our thoughts and prayers go out to those victims who lost loved >> ones in the terrible shooting. I'm truly sorry for the loss >> you've suffered and the pain you've endured. My prayers are with >> the many families who are trying to locate loved ones. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:54:23 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:54:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for cheating. I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences I'm really not sure. I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind people this stupid? On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my state, > > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but > I've never heard of them going the apple route. > So I think it will be hard to get one. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just > get a pc. > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have >> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >> >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and >> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, >> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the >> >> key and independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Jul 23 22:26:38 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:26:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <500DCF9E.1080009@tysdomain.com> I'm not really sure where you got some of the ideas from. I've personally done some tutoring; some of the best tutors are there because they want to be and because they really enjoy helping. I guess it might be a possibility that someone might run off and whisper, but most usually, tutors really enjoy tutoring. It's how they sit there and answer questions and go over the same stuff over and over with different people. If you need a tutor to wobble your way through a class, so be it. If you wobble your way through most of the classes that are specific to your degree, I might recommend a change of degree; otherwise, just accept it as fact that not everyone is good at everything, wobble your way through, give a sigh of relief when you're done and passed and call it good. On 7/23/2012 3:54 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my > math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the > teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did > long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would > tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. > Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other > stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as > uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in > those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used > to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c > was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed > nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I > would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing > something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for > cheating. > I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes > to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even > calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's > just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to > fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. > The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some > people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short > term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or > math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You > might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through > the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to > noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and > maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences > I'm really not sure. > I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that > makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you > need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame > surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an > astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go > running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. > We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with > blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how > ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two > and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind > people this stupid? > > On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my state, >> >> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> So I think it will be hard to get one. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >> get a pc. >> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >>> >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have >>> >>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >>> >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and >>> >>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, >>> >>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the >>> >>> key and independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that >> >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 22:31:53 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 15:31:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2><5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com><85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7A97513C643C4D639C5780B44DCC2E58@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, If you knew you were better than the people in your math class, then you probably will be. It's also a mind set. You are the smartest person the school has ever had, and you will do just about anything to show that you're the smartest. BTW, cheating is more trouble than it's worth. So if you think you're cheating to make something easier, you probably aren't cheeting. High school doesn't count for much in the real world, so I'm sorry for the horrid things they did to you, but college math courses are often lots more fun. My college has a class called, math for non mathematical people, and it's how to do math without thinking about math. BTW, you can't really do stats without using a calculator. If you want to do something, nurture that want and make it a need, then fulfill that need. Once the step has been taken and you're in your first day of class, it's not long till you've gotten an A at the end of the quarter. So believe you're the best and then be the best. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi all, Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for cheating. I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences I'm really not sure. I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind people this stupid? On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my > state, > > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but > I've never heard of them going the apple route. > So I think it will be hard to get one. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just > get a pc. > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >> have >> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >> >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and >> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, >> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the >> >> key and independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 22:47:33 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:47:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question Message-ID: <500dd4a5.7397ec0a.480e.1f1f@mx.google.com> I don't think you can use the display to read a book on your phone. I have Blio, and when I read a book in that using VO, it won't show up on the braille display. ----- Original Message ----- From: vejas God must've been watching out for them. That's like all those 9/11 stories where the people were late to work and it saved their lives. ----- Original Message ----- From: Liliya Asadullina wrote: Oh, thanks, Roanna. I'm in Denver, and they're al in Aurora, but I think I remember seeing a movie at that same theater if I remember correctly. beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Roanna Baccchus References: <-2963949219218263024@unknownmsgid> <26E70C0FAE6C4879B236659DA8553778@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <5945242638697565884@unknownmsgid> Well... Flash is definitely not the most accessible platform out there, but you have a better chance of being able to use flash sites totally or partially if you are using Windows. That isn't really a problem for me, but if you regularly visit websites that use flash content heavily then a Mac might not be a good idea... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2012, at 2:29 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignasi, > so then what you are saying is flash isn't accessible via mac or pc. groan. when I get a flash site, > all I hear is flash content start, then, flash content end. I'd like adobe flash to be accessible! > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 4:49 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A question for Mac users > > Flash content is not accessible with VO at this time. Adobe promissed > to make it accessible at some point but it hasn't happened yet. We'll > see what happens... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 19, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> How does Voice Over handle flash based sites like this one, on the Mac? >> http://www.altitudeworship.com >> Jaws reads this site, this way! >> "Flash movie start, flash movie end." >> "FB frame, etc." >> The links aren't readable, by the screenreader! >> Does Voice Over do the same, on the Mac computers? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 00:44:09 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:44:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <500b550a.8a852b0a.70c3.ffffed2bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Arielle, Jedi and all, I've taken the liberty to do a bit more research, and I'm torn. On the one hand, I absolutely respect the work done by the Federation; it's necessary, it's important and, within the xontext of the rest of my life, I want to be involved. (I've seen people whose lives almost become the Federation and I sure as hell don't want that!) Furthermore, I have no current qualms with NFB policy large enough for me to be compelled to publicly speak out against the organization. But it's possible, and I don't want to be in the position where I feel like I'm voilating a virtual contract of membership by speaking my mind. Some people have told me that, if I'm so committed to the principal of speaking my mind, whenever I feel inspired to do so, I oughtn't join the organization because, should I choose to stay actively involved as a member, my freedom to raise my voice could be impeded. I see their point. Still, others tell me that I shouldn't worry about hypotheticals and only deal with that moral dilemma if it turns in to a real issue. As I said, right now, there are no policies of the organization that I disagree with enough to publicly oppose but it could happen. I'm wondering if I should just worry about that only if I need to and devote myself to the problems at hand right now? I'd just hate to put myself in the situation where, years down, I might have to walk away from the NFB or possibly resign from a leadership position if the organization's policies compell me to do so. Thoughts, anyone? Best, Kirt On 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Kurt, Jedi and all, > If you pay your $5 dues to NABS and become a voting member, and/or > seek office, you are in fact a member of the NFB for a year following > your dues payment. This is because NABS is an integral part of the > NFB. So Kurt, in your case you would have been a member last year. I > don't, however, know if you chose to repay your dues at convention > this year. Either way, I respect your decision and appreciate your > continued contributions to our list. > I have stated before that I believe there are many ways to contribute > to the NFB's work, and being an official, pledge-abiding member is but > one of them. Even among members, there are multiple levels of > membership--local, state and national--and several levels of > involvement we can choose to have or not have. > I will state candidly here that I have recently developed some > disagreements with the way that NFB handles its national politics, and > I wish that elections, resolutions and other organizational matters > were handled in a way that more closely resembles the way the United > States constitution operates. I would like to see more room given for > opposition and debate beyond the convention floor on resolution day. > In full disclosure, this is part of the reason why I chose not to seek > a second term as NABS president and instead decided to focus my NFB > efforts to my local chapter and to behind-the-scenes activities like > posting on this list. However, I will leave it at that and will not > violate the NFB pledge by discussing my specific grievances in a > public forum or anywhere else outside the NFB. This is because I think > the empowerment and inspiration the NFB gives to blind people is more > important to protect than are my ideals about democratic leadership, > and I'm willing to let go of the things I don't agree with in order to > help blind people in the ways where I have the most to offer. However, > this is just my personal approach to the situation. I can completely > empathize with those of you who choose not to join because of the NFB > pledge or anything else about the organization you find distasteful. I > believe that even without joining and unofficially signing on to the > pledge, there are things you can do to further the NFB philosophy and > collective goals--by writing on this list, by offering mentoring and > resources to blind people in your area, and even just by living your > life and educating the public along the way. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/21/12, Jedi wrote: >> Kirt, >> >> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you join NABS? Didn't you, >> at one point, seek national office in NABS? If this is the case, you >> might want to know that joining NABS, let alone serving as a national >> officer, means that you have joined the NFB. Or least, that is how I >> read the NABS constitution. For those NABS constitution scholars out >> there, is that the case? And if you have unknowingly joined the NFB >> Kirt, that also means that you have also signed the pledge. Ah, those >> dubious NFB-ers! *kidding* In all seriousness though, and provided I'm >> correct in my understanding, it may be helpful information to you, >> Kirt, and everyone, in order to engage in a manner congruent to your >> beliefs. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> Julie, >>> Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for >>> it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be >>> limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's >>> something I just can not do. >>> And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last >>> convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, >>> even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states >>> with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen >>> in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly >>> clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or >>> wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. >>> Best, >>> Kirt >> >>> On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the >>>> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow >>>> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a >>>> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be >>>> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can >>>> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those >>>> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple >>>> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather >>>> close. >> >>>> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of >>>> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical >>>> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of >>>> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to >>>> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an >>>> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current >>>> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in >>>> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the >>>> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any >>>> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. >>>> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be >>>> extremely boring and would not make a good organization. >> >>>> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> Justin, >>>>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >>>>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >>>>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >>>>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >>>>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >>>>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >>>>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >>>>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >>>>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >>>>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >>>>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >>>>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >>>>> for the blind; to >>>>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >>>>> its constitution." >>>>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >>>>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >>>>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >>>>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >>>>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >>>>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >>>>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >>>>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >>>>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >>>>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >>>>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >>>>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >>>>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >>>>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >>>>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >>>>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >>>>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >>>>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >>>>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >>>>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >>>>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kirt >> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>> Dear List, >> >>>>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've >>>>>> met >>>>>> two >>>>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>>>>> opinions >>>>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >> >>>>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >> >>>>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >> >>>>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because >>>>>> someone >>>>>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >> >>>>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>>>>> that >>>>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single >>>>>> member >>>>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>>>>> within >>>>>> us. >> >>>>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>>>>> organization >>>>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>>>>> much >>>>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and >>>>>> let >>>>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world >>>>>> that >>>>>> our >>>>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we >>>>>> might >>>>>> not >>>>>> even have closets in which to sit. >> >>>>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the >>>>>> certain >>>>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only >>>>>> tie >>>>>> I >>>>>> was >>>>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>>>>> people >>>>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I >>>>>> once >>>>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >> >>>>>> Justin >> >>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>> change >>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>> MEAD >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> >> >> >>>> -- >>>> Julie McG >>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >>>> of Missouri recording secretary, >>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind >> >>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>>> life." >>>> John 3:16 >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 24 01:00:39 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:00:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <500b550a.8a852b0a.70c3.ffffed2bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500DF3B7.3070601@tysdomain.com> Kert: I'm not part of the nFB, for other reasons, but my two cents anyway. I think you should center things on what you believe. If you don't believe something is good, and you talk to people about it, by all means resign your position. You shouldn't let it stop you from getting involved though. You will always end up having to choose whether or not to stand for what you believe. It's your choice when and how you do it, but I wouldn't let it stop you from doing what you want. As you said, just don't go with the "confederation is my refuge" deal and you won't lose all hope. On 7/23/2012 6:44 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Arielle, Jedi and all, > I've taken the liberty to do a bit more research, and I'm torn. On > the one hand, I absolutely respect the work done by the Federation; > it's necessary, it's important and, within the xontext of the rest of > my life, I want to be involved. (I've seen people whose lives almost > become the Federation and I sure as hell don't want that!) > Furthermore, I have no current qualms with NFB policy large enough for > me to be compelled to publicly speak out against the organization. > But it's possible, and I don't want to be in the position where I feel > like I'm voilating a virtual contract of membership by speaking my > mind. > Some people have told me that, if I'm so committed to the principal > of speaking my mind, whenever I feel inspired to do so, I oughtn't > join the organization because, should I choose to stay actively > involved as a member, my freedom to raise my voice could be impeded. > I see their point. Still, others tell me that I shouldn't worry about > hypotheticals and only deal with that moral dilemma if it turns in to > a real issue. As I said, right now, there are no policies of the > organization that I disagree with enough to publicly oppose but it > could happen. I'm wondering if I should just worry about that only if > I need to and devote myself to the problems at hand right now? I'd > just hate to put myself in the situation where, years down, I might > have to walk away from the NFB or possibly resign from a leadership > position if the organization's policies compell me to do so. > Thoughts, anyone? > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Kurt, Jedi and all, >> If you pay your $5 dues to NABS and become a voting member, and/or >> seek office, you are in fact a member of the NFB for a year following >> your dues payment. This is because NABS is an integral part of the >> NFB. So Kurt, in your case you would have been a member last year. I >> don't, however, know if you chose to repay your dues at convention >> this year. Either way, I respect your decision and appreciate your >> continued contributions to our list. >> I have stated before that I believe there are many ways to contribute >> to the NFB's work, and being an official, pledge-abiding member is but >> one of them. Even among members, there are multiple levels of >> membership--local, state and national--and several levels of >> involvement we can choose to have or not have. >> I will state candidly here that I have recently developed some >> disagreements with the way that NFB handles its national politics, and >> I wish that elections, resolutions and other organizational matters >> were handled in a way that more closely resembles the way the United >> States constitution operates. I would like to see more room given for >> opposition and debate beyond the convention floor on resolution day. >> In full disclosure, this is part of the reason why I chose not to seek >> a second term as NABS president and instead decided to focus my NFB >> efforts to my local chapter and to behind-the-scenes activities like >> posting on this list. However, I will leave it at that and will not >> violate the NFB pledge by discussing my specific grievances in a >> public forum or anywhere else outside the NFB. This is because I think >> the empowerment and inspiration the NFB gives to blind people is more >> important to protect than are my ideals about democratic leadership, >> and I'm willing to let go of the things I don't agree with in order to >> help blind people in the ways where I have the most to offer. However, >> this is just my personal approach to the situation. I can completely >> empathize with those of you who choose not to join because of the NFB >> pledge or anything else about the organization you find distasteful. I >> believe that even without joining and unofficially signing on to the >> pledge, there are things you can do to further the NFB philosophy and >> collective goals--by writing on this list, by offering mentoring and >> resources to blind people in your area, and even just by living your >> life and educating the public along the way. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 7/21/12, Jedi wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> >>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you join NABS? Didn't you, >>> at one point, seek national office in NABS? If this is the case, you >>> might want to know that joining NABS, let alone serving as a national >>> officer, means that you have joined the NFB. Or least, that is how I >>> read the NABS constitution. For those NABS constitution scholars out >>> there, is that the case? And if you have unknowingly joined the NFB >>> Kirt, that also means that you have also signed the pledge. Ah, those >>> dubious NFB-ers! *kidding* In all seriousness though, and provided I'm >>> correct in my understanding, it may be helpful information to you, >>> Kirt, and everyone, in order to engage in a manner congruent to your >>> beliefs. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Julie, >>>> Yes, there is debate within the federation and, yes, I'm glad for >>>> it. But the point is, were I to sign on to the NFB pledge, I would be >>>> limiting myself to keeping that debate within the federation. That's >>>> something I just can not do. >>>> And another thing. You said some of the resolutions at this last >>>> convention were fairly close, and by NFB standards they were. But, >>>> even the closest resolution ended up passing the role call of states >>>> with something like a 35-15 margin. If that kind of margin were seen >>>> in, say, an election for political office, what you called "fairly >>>> clos" would be considered a landslide. I'm not saying that's right or >>>> wrong, I'm just saying that's the way it is. >>>> Best, >>>> Kirt >>>> On 7/20/12, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the >>>>> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow >>>>> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a >>>>> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be >>>>> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can >>>>> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those >>>>> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple >>>>> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather >>>>> close. >>>>> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of >>>>> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical >>>>> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of >>>>> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to >>>>> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an >>>>> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current >>>>> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in >>>>> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the >>>>> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any >>>>> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. >>>>> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be >>>>> extremely boring and would not make a good organization. >>>>> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> Justin, >>>>>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >>>>>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >>>>>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >>>>>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >>>>>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >>>>>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >>>>>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >>>>>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >>>>>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >>>>>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >>>>>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >>>>>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >>>>>> for the blind; to >>>>>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >>>>>> its constitution." >>>>>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >>>>>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >>>>>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >>>>>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >>>>>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >>>>>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >>>>>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >>>>>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >>>>>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >>>>>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >>>>>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >>>>>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >>>>>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >>>>>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >>>>>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >>>>>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >>>>>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >>>>>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >>>>>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >>>>>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >>>>>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>> Dear List, >>>>>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've >>>>>>> met >>>>>>> two >>>>>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>>>>>> opinions >>>>>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >>>>>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >>>>>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >>>>>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >>>>>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single >>>>>>> member >>>>>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>>>>>> within >>>>>>> us. >>>>>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>>>>>> organization >>>>>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and >>>>>>> let >>>>>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> even have closets in which to sit. >>>>>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only >>>>>>> tie >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I >>>>>>> once >>>>>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >>>>>>> Justin >>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>>>>>> change >>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET >>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Julie McG >>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >>>>> of Missouri recording secretary, >>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >>>>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind >>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>>>> life." >>>>> John 3:16 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From herrinar at muohio.edu Tue Jul 24 01:00:47 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Amber R. Herrin) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:00:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question In-Reply-To: <500dbcbd.c97d440a.6401.2da7@mx.google.com> References: <500dbcbd.c97d440a.6401.2da7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002101cd6937$c3f2f610$4bd8e230$@muohio.edu> Vejas, He has, though not recently, read using the display. I believe we have updated a time or two since he did this, so your problem is absolutely capable of existing despite his previous ability to read without having it. What I would suggest, and not just to you but others as well, is to find one of the listserves which deal in iOS devices and ask there. I am currently subscribed to mac-access and have got mail turned off, but am also subscribed to the ViPhone google group. Sorry I'm not being very helpful. I sincerely wish I had another suggestion. Best, Amber -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vejas Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question Hi Amber, In IBooks I was having problems getting the display to show the book, but Voice-Over still worked. Does your fiancée use voice-over or does he read using the display? Vejas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber R. Herrin" References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> <7A97513C643C4D639C5780B44DCC2E58@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Oh, that was just grade school. But none of my experiences throughout the time I was in school were all that great, which makes me not only doubt the human race as a whole, but also has lead me to believe that while you're in school, you have no rights. This goes for college too since it's an institution of learning. Sure, people are paying to go there, but let's get real. Some are riding on a scholarship, so they're not paying out of pocket, or some have their parents pay for them. In the case of blind people, rehab pays for most, if not all of your college education if you play by their rules. I really wasn't trying to start a debate about my situation though. I consider myself to be a realist. I know what I am and am not good at. No amount of convincing myself that I'm good at math will make it so. No amount of convincing yourself that you can see will make it so, either. There's a fine line between being hopeful and sticking your head in the clouds. The only reason I revealed any of this at all is because some of us didn't grow up privileged. Some of us had to fight for every hint of respect we ever got. Some of us haven't been respected in so long that we don't even know what it feels like anymore. I get the feeling that that's kind of what Beth was saying too. I'll take the tirade of criticism that's sure to rain down on me for saying that, but at least I'm being honest. On 7/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > If you knew you were better than the people in your math class, then you > probably will be. It's also a mind set. You are the smartest person the > school has ever had, and you will do just about anything to show that you're > > the smartest. > BTW, cheating is more trouble than it's worth. So if you think you're > cheating to make something easier, you probably aren't cheeting. High school > > doesn't count for much in the real world, so I'm sorry for the horrid things > > they did to you, but college math courses are often lots more fun. > My college has a class called, math for non mathematical people, and it's > how to do math without thinking about math. > BTW, you can't really do stats without using a calculator. > If you want to do something, nurture that want and make it a need, then > fulfill that need. Once the step has been taken and you're in your first day > > of class, it's not long till you've gotten an A at the end of the quarter. > So believe you're the best and then be the best. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi all, > Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my > math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the > teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did > long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would > tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. > Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other > stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as > uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in > those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used > to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c > was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed > nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I > would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing > something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for > cheating. > I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes > to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even > calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's > just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to > fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. > The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some > people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short > term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or > math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You > might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through > the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to > noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and > maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences > I'm really not sure. > I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that > makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you > need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame > surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an > astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go > running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. > We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with > blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how > ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two > and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind > people this stupid? > > On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> state, >> >> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> So I think it will be hard to get one. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >> get a pc. >> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>> have >>> >>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>> a >>> >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>> and >>> >>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, >>> >>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>> the >>> >>> key and independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 24 02:08:20 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 20:08:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> <7A97513C643C4D639C5780B44DCC2E58@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <500E0394.7070106@tysdomain.com> I'm sorry I'm not helping the pity party here, but for most people, respect is what you earn. If you don't earn their respect, then you don't get it, and it's pretty simple. Just because someone is in college doesn't mean they're priviledged. I know people that are going on a full-ride scholarship. Sure it sucks that I have to pay, but I can guarantee you they worked their ass off in school to get it. Why am I not going on a full ride? It's simple, I didn't happen to do that. Sure there are people that that doesn't apply to, but not everyone gets the golden platter handed to them; personally, as hard as things may be, I'm glad I didn't. I can tell you that when I graduated high school and later when I graduate college, I'm going to appreciate it a lot more than someone with the golden platter. We've also all had our own fair share of issues in school as a blind student, it doesn't reflect badly on the human race as a whole, it's just life again. It wasn't such a huge problem for me until high school, but when high school rolled around and I started caring enough to want to get good grades, I'll tell you it wasn't easy. I made numerous trips across the school every day to make sure everything was getting brailled; it really depended greatly on the teacher, and I got a few that I had to yell at and then getting everything I needed was a miracle by itself. Going to college is a privilege, not a right. Yes, it's harder if you're blind, yes, it's harder if you don't have scholarships, c'est la vie. I've always had the mindset that your life is what you make it. As I said, no-one is great at everything, and everyone struggles with some classes, it's the way it is. If life were easy, everyone would have gone to college and we wouldn't have this debate. Ultimately though, the choice is yours; you can accept life as it is and do the best with it, or you can complain about it. On 7/23/2012 7:54 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Oh, that was just grade school. But none of my experiences throughout > the time I was in school were all that great, which makes me not only > doubt the human race as a whole, but also has lead me to believe that > while you're in school, you have no rights. This goes for college too > since it's an institution of learning. Sure, people are paying to go > there, but let's get real. Some are riding on a scholarship, so > they're not paying out of pocket, or some have their parents pay for > them. In the case of blind people, rehab pays for most, if not all of > your college education if you play by their rules. I really wasn't > trying to start a debate about my situation though. I consider myself > to be a realist. I know what I am and am not good at. No amount of > convincing myself that I'm good at math will make it so. No amount of > convincing yourself that you can see will make it so, either. There's > a fine line between being hopeful and sticking your head in the > clouds. > The only reason I revealed any of this at all is because some of us > didn't grow up privileged. Some of us had to fight for every hint of > respect we ever got. Some of us haven't been respected in so long that > we don't even know what it feels like anymore. I get the feeling that > that's kind of what Beth was saying too. I'll take the tirade of > criticism that's sure to rain down on me for saying that, but at least > I'm being honest. > > On 7/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> If you knew you were better than the people in your math class, then you >> probably will be. It's also a mind set. You are the smartest person the >> school has ever had, and you will do just about anything to show that you're >> >> the smartest. >> BTW, cheating is more trouble than it's worth. So if you think you're >> cheating to make something easier, you probably aren't cheeting. High school >> >> doesn't count for much in the real world, so I'm sorry for the horrid things >> >> they did to you, but college math courses are often lots more fun. >> My college has a class called, math for non mathematical people, and it's >> how to do math without thinking about math. >> BTW, you can't really do stats without using a calculator. >> If you want to do something, nurture that want and make it a need, then >> fulfill that need. Once the step has been taken and you're in your first day >> >> of class, it's not long till you've gotten an A at the end of the quarter. >> So believe you're the best and then be the best. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi all, >> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my >> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >> cheating. >> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >> I'm really not sure. >> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >> people this stupid? >> >> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Tyler, >>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>> state, >>> >>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >>> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>> So I think it will be hard to get one. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >>> get a pc. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>>> have >>>> >>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>>> a >>>> >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>>> and >>>> >>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> >>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>>> the >>>> >>>> key and independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 02:48:35 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:48:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ Message-ID: Hi all, Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September? I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a grant to attend Dallas. TIA Deb * * From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 09:13:25 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 03:13:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Message-ID: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> Hi, all. To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. Beth From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 09:18:46 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:18:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question In-Reply-To: <500db7bb.0484440a.0664.1fb2@mx.google.com> References: <500db7bb.0484440a.0664.1fb2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1339387574727460513@unknownmsgid> I have never used an iOS device with a braille display, but if you are planning on using it from the Apex's keyboard I don't see the point of having iPad. I would say an iPod touch or iPhone will do the same for you and both of those devices take a lot less space than the iPad. If you are going to keep using the iPad try to leave your Braille Note alone for a couple of weeks and get used to the touch screen. Then go back to the BN and use it for typing if that's faster for you. You can double tap an edit field to edit its content. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2012, at 1:45 PM, vejas wrote: > Hi, > I am beginning to learn how to use the ipad. I am using my braillenote apex to act as a display, and therefore use the braille note keyboard to control the ipad. I had 2 questions. > My first question is, when I open up IBooks, Voice-Over reads the book, but it doesn't appear on the Braille display. How do I get the text of the book on the display? > Second, how do you go into a text field? > Thanks, > Vejas > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 09:33:52 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7875962367206091665@unknownmsgid> Beth, I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to want a Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better user experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. Now... If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine could I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I didn't really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable but is also not rehab's problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 10:09:13 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:09:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Message-ID: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2@mx.google.com> True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go in the trash. That's all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra wrote: Hi, all. To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 10:15:06 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:15:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Can't blame you at all, Beth! I got one, for the same reasons as you. I generally love it! It has it's flaws, but nothing future updates can't fix. And there aren't a lot of them at that. On 7/24/12, Beth wrote: > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want > something with good tech support. The tech support people from > India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the > demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to > be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because > JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all > I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to > be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 10:16:31 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:16:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ignasi, quite true. It's the same for me, as you. Just replace rehab with parents. On 7/24/12, josh gregory wrote: > Can't blame you at all, Beth! I got one, for the same reasons as you. > I generally love it! It has it's flaws, but nothing future updates > can't fix. And there aren't a lot of them at that. > > On 7/24/12, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal >> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want >> something with good tech support. The tech support people from >> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the >> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to >> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because >> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all >> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to >> be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Jul 24 11:14:35 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:14:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120724041122.01c4f880@comcast.net> Good morning, Desiree, I know at my school and probably at others as well, they offer free tutoring in all the school's subjects which can make all the difference if you are floundering. So you need not pay for tutoring. Ask the administration about the tutoring center.strong point. I know for example that my >math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >cheating. >I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >I'm really not sure. >I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >people this stupid? > >On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > > Tyler, > > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth > > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my state, > > > > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but > > I've never heard of them going the apple route. > > So I think it will be hard to get one. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Littlefield, Tyler > > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > > computerfor college > > > > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple > > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it > > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just > > get a pc. > > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > >> Hello, > >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this > >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > >> > >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that > >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the > >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding > >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have > >> > >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a > >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be > >> dependable and has the best support in the world. > >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want > >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a > >> > >> Mac. > >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and > >> > >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, > >> > >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the > >> > >> key and independence is the way. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth > >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > >> computerfor college > >> > >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > >> Thanks, > >> Beth > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > > > > -- > > Take care, > > Ty > > http://tds-solutions.net > > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a > fool; he that > > > > dares not reason is a slave. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From joshkart12 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 11:21:04 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:21:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120724041122.01c4f880@comcast.net> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2> <5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com> <85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120724041122.01c4f880@comcast.net> Message-ID: What else did you mean to say, Carly? The full message isn't here. Well, either that or Gmail's cutting it short. On 7/24/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Desiree, > > I know at my school and probably at others as well, they offer free > tutoring in all the school's subjects which can make all the > difference if you are floundering. So you need not pay for tutoring. > Ask the administration about the tutoring center.strong point. I know > for example that my >>math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >>teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >>long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >>tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >>Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >>stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >>uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >>those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >>to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >>was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >>nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >>would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >>something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >>cheating. >>I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >>to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >>calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >>just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >>fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >>The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >>people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >>term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >>math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >>might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >>the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >>noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >>maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >>I'm really not sure. >>I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >>makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >>need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >>surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >>astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >>running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >>We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >>blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >>ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >>and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >>people this stupid? >> >>On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> > Tyler, >> > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> > state, >> > >> > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, >> > but >> > I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> > So I think it will be hard to get one. >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Littlefield, Tyler >> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> > computerfor college >> > >> > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, >> > just >> > get a pc. >> > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> >> this >> >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> >> a >> >> >> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >> >> succeeding >> >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >> >> have >> >> >> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >> >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >> >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >> >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >> >> want >> >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >> >> a >> >> >> >> Mac. >> >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >> >> and >> >> >> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> >> have, >> >> >> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >> >> the >> >> >> >> key and independence is the way. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> >> computerfor college >> >> >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Beth >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Take care, >> > Ty >> > http://tds-solutions.net >> > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> fool; he that >> > >> > dares not reason is a slave. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 12:33:06 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:33:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: <500dbe63.28d4440a.631e.2703@mx.google.com> References: <500dbe63.28d4440a.631e.2703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <91205FFAD67F4E178BAC4C081DF06E65@OwnerPC> Vejas, ACB is the other organization, american council of the blind. -----Original Message----- From: vejas Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy What is the ABC? Vejas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: Hello, Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages and frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something that will make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than minimum wage is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages. Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both wrong? As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this last year, we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we know we are right, we will win. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Arielle: that was a great post. I just have one question about this. If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do Not Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," resolution at their convention? Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the federally mandated minimum wage. Hmmm! Thanks, Joshua On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi all, I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was excellent. I would also add two things: 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, I would argue that most committed ACB members and many other successful blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. The NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that does not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy of blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken differing approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily mean that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't think the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have choices about which organization to join and that there's not one big group monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the NFB and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing what it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine years I have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB increasingly takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. I would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for their removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though we are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take time for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are also working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting to enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that we can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design against each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual approach toward both of these goals? Arielle On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. Tyler: I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't fully agree with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that hesitation about getting involved with organized religion. I started going to a campus ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free dinner, and I quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some churches, the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that everyone in the church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees slightly is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we understand that people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's okay to disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have generally the same core beliefs. That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with something we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it because that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone disagrees with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of understanding of what we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I won't shun you. Marc Workman: Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the barriers. Why do you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an absolutely amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability because there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work on those barriers. On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a colored person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I don't bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of it. Quite frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a colored person. With the first generation college student part, I have to seek mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know many, many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role for me. Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with you before" in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've realized in retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who hears me and myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. I'm not saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did read it that way. Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of their dreams and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people to reach for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With hope life always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The NFB to me is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me if I need it. Yours in Federationism, Justin Salisbury Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu �Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it�s the only thing that ever has.? �MARGARET MEAD _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb iggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 0earthlink..net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 12:46:33 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:46:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2><5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com><85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Desiree, I am not strong in math and science. We all need some assistance in some areas; for my brother it was writing and english. For me, it was math and science. I'm not sure where these ideas come from. Like Tyler, I feel that tutoring can be helpful unless you struggle in major classes; then change majors. Otherwise get a tutor to get through a difficult class or two. Undergrad requires so many gen ed classes that all people struggle in something. In my school at least, tutors were employed by the school and had to have references for it. Not only that, they had to have taken the class in which they tutored and gotten an A or B. They are some of the best in their subjects; most really enjoy tutoring; if they did not, they would probably get an easier job like information desk assistant. As to them thinking badly since you're blind, I highly doubt that. As others said, students are more mature in college and I think they would tutor you like any other student. If you pay a private tutor, I see what you mean. You pay just as much for the tutor as you do for the class, if not more! But, if one can afford it, I see nothing wrong with that. Surely, no one would think you're dumb for getting help in a few classes. I mean all students do it. It shows some maturity to speak up and get help in your weak areas. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi all, Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for cheating. I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences I'm really not sure. I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind people this stupid? On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my > state, > > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but > I've never heard of them going the apple route. > So I think it will be hard to get one. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just > get a pc. > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >> have >> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >> >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and >> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, >> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the >> >> key and independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 12:53:57 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Deb, if you don't get an answer here, check with your state president. they coordinate rooms for people. -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ Hi all, Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September? I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a grant to attend Dallas. TIA Deb * * _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 13:03:49 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:03:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college In-Reply-To: <500E0394.7070106@tysdomain.com> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2><5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com><85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC><7A97513C643C4D639C5780B44DCC2E58@BrandonsLaptop2> <500E0394.7070106@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <053B4F16BFEA450FBD60C4460BE572CF@OwnerPC> Tyler, Good post. I'll add that college i s what you make it. You can study and get good grades or just skate through barly passing. Its quite hard. But if it were easy, we'd have more college grads. College is higher education separating the educated from the not so educated. Yep, respect is what you make it. I could write so much on that. I've known many blind people who were bullyed or had issues in public school; yet, in college, they really shined and got involved in studies and clubs that they wanted to. So, I guess my point is just since you had a bad experience in high school or public schools, it doesn't mean that translates to college. I encourage anyone who needs it to avail yourselves of college resources like tutoring, academic advising, the library, and professors. Professors have been great to me in general; sure a few here and there suck about accomodations, but overall they were helpful. They often went out of their way to help. My intro to computers professor brought in parts of a computer for me to feel. How awesome to see the hard drive and actual memory chips on the motherboard; I did not see the pictures, so this was helpful. Other professors have sat with me and given me feedback on my papers before grading them and this was nice because I cannot read their comments and it made their expectations clearer. Other professors just helped me more and described charts or diagrams they had. Professors will also write reference letters for you. I think you can gain respect in college you did not have before. You can find your niche sort of by choosing your major and what to engage in outside school. Self esteem improves too if you get involved in stuff and try new things. That said, college isn't for everyone, and if Desiree feels its not for her, that is okay. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college I'm sorry I'm not helping the pity party here, but for most people, respect is what you earn. If you don't earn their respect, then you don't get it, and it's pretty simple. Just because someone is in college doesn't mean they're priviledged. I know people that are going on a full-ride scholarship. Sure it sucks that I have to pay, but I can guarantee you they worked their ass off in school to get it. Why am I not going on a full ride? It's simple, I didn't happen to do that. Sure there are people that that doesn't apply to, but not everyone gets the golden platter handed to them; personally, as hard as things may be, I'm glad I didn't. I can tell you that when I graduated high school and later when I graduate college, I'm going to appreciate it a lot more than someone with the golden platter. We've also all had our own fair share of issues in school as a blind student, it doesn't reflect badly on the human race as a whole, it's just life again. It wasn't such a huge problem for me until high school, but when high school rolled around and I started caring enough to want to get good grades, I'll tell you it wasn't easy. I made numerous trips across the school every day to make sure everything was getting brailled; it really depended greatly on the teacher, and I got a few that I had to yell at and then getting everything I needed was a miracle by itself. Going to college is a privilege, not a right. Yes, it's harder if you're blind, yes, it's harder if you don't have scholarships, c'est la vie. I've always had the mindset that your life is what you make it. As I said, no-one is great at everything, and everyone struggles with some classes, it's the way it is. If life were easy, everyone would have gone to college and we wouldn't have this debate. Ultimately though, the choice is yours; you can accept life as it is and do the best with it, or you can complain about it. On 7/23/2012 7:54 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Oh, that was just grade school. But none of my experiences throughout > the time I was in school were all that great, which makes me not only > doubt the human race as a whole, but also has lead me to believe that > while you're in school, you have no rights. This goes for college too > since it's an institution of learning. Sure, people are paying to go > there, but let's get real. Some are riding on a scholarship, so > they're not paying out of pocket, or some have their parents pay for > them. In the case of blind people, rehab pays for most, if not all of > your college education if you play by their rules. I really wasn't > trying to start a debate about my situation though. I consider myself > to be a realist. I know what I am and am not good at. No amount of > convincing myself that I'm good at math will make it so. No amount of > convincing yourself that you can see will make it so, either. There's > a fine line between being hopeful and sticking your head in the > clouds. > The only reason I revealed any of this at all is because some of us > didn't grow up privileged. Some of us had to fight for every hint of > respect we ever got. Some of us haven't been respected in so long that > we don't even know what it feels like anymore. I get the feeling that > that's kind of what Beth was saying too. I'll take the tirade of > criticism that's sure to rain down on me for saying that, but at least > I'm being honest. > > On 7/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> If you knew you were better than the people in your math class, then you >> probably will be. It's also a mind set. You are the smartest person the >> school has ever had, and you will do just about anything to show that >> you're >> >> the smartest. >> BTW, cheating is more trouble than it's worth. So if you think you're >> cheating to make something easier, you probably aren't cheeting. High >> school >> >> doesn't count for much in the real world, so I'm sorry for the horrid >> things >> >> they did to you, but college math courses are often lots more fun. >> My college has a class called, math for non mathematical people, and it's >> how to do math without thinking about math. >> BTW, you can't really do stats without using a calculator. >> If you want to do something, nurture that want and make it a need, then >> fulfill that need. Once the step has been taken and you're in your first >> day >> >> of class, it's not long till you've gotten an A at the end of the >> quarter. >> So believe you're the best and then be the best. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:54 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi all, >> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my >> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >> cheating. >> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >> I'm really not sure. >> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >> people this stupid? >> >> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Tyler, >>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>> state, >>> >>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >>> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>> So I think it will be hard to get one. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >>> get a pc. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this >>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>> succeeding >>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>>> have >>>> >>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >>>> want >>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>>> a >>>> >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>>> and >>>> >>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> >>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>>> the >>>> >>>> key and independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 13:06:58 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2@mx.google.com> References: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined? If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for you. BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy macs. Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment. employers use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in microsoft and windows applications. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go in the trash. That's all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra wrote: Hi, all. To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 13:11:52 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:11:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <587E52F99AAC4D368490520D1135511F@OwnerPC> Beth, Rehab doesn't care what you want. they care about what will make you employed. Sorry to say it this way, but it’s the truth. I'd say you need to justify your needs in writing and see if other vr clients have gotten macs. If they won't buy it, get one through other sources such as family or a lions club. You can go to college with a windows pc, so if rehab will buy you one, use that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Hi, all. To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 13:26:25 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:26:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2><5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com><85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't think people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I used a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we all are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college > Hi all, > Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my > math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the > teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did > long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would > tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. > Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other > stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as > uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in > those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used > to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c > was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed > nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I > would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing > something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for > cheating. > I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes > to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even > calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's > just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to > fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. > The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some > people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short > term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or > math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You > might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through > the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to > noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and > maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences > I'm really not sure. > I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that > makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you > need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame > surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an > astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go > running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. > We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with > blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how > ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two > and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind > people this stupid? > > On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> state, >> >> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> So I think it will be hard to get one. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >> get a pc. >> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>> have >>> >>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>> a >>> >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>> and >>> >>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, >>> >>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>> the >>> >>> key and independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 13:13:17 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:13:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ashley, I will bring it up at our August meeting. Thank you! Deb On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Deb, > if you don't get an answer here, check with your state president. they > coordinate rooms for people. > > -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ > > > Hi all, > Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September? > I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a > grant to attend Dallas. > TIA > Deb > > * > * > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** > mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 12:36:00 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:36:00 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2><5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com><85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I agree with what was said. I am not that good at math either. If you need help ask for it. Sighted people get th It's nothing to be ashamed of. Rania,e help they need all the time. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college Hi, I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't think people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I used a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we all are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college > Hi all, > Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my > math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the > teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did > long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would > tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. > Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other > stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as > uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in > those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used > to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c > was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed > nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I > would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing > something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for > cheating. > I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes > to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even > calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's > just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to > fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. > The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some > people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short > term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or > math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You > might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through > the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to > noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and > maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences > I'm really not sure. > I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that > makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you > need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame > surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an > astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go > running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. > We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with > blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how > ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two > and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind > people this stupid? > > On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> state, >> >> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> So I think it will be hard to get one. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >> get a pc. >> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>> have >>> >>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>> a >>> >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>> and >>> >>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, >>> >>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>> the >>> >>> key and independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 12:36:11 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:36:11 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com><3167632C135B4B72BF512E9D52C384ED@BrandonsLaptop2><5008ED7A.9060504@tysdomain.com><85F1FCCF57344CCD9CCD52E46E475FE2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <86F6B5E229CE44CEB283932911D244B5@userPC> I agree with what was said. I am not that good at math either. If you need help ask for it. Sighted people get th It's nothing to be ashamed of. Rania,e help they need all the time. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college Hi, I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't think people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I used a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we all are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college > Hi all, > Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my > math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the > teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did > long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would > tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. > Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other > stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as > uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in > those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used > to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c > was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed > nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I > would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing > something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for > cheating. > I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes > to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even > calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's > just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to > fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. > The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some > people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short > term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or > math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You > might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through > the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to > noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and > maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences > I'm really not sure. > I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that > makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you > need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame > surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an > astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go > running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. > We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with > blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how > ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two > and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind > people this stupid? > > On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> state, >> >> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> So I think it will be hard to get one. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >> get a pc. >> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>> have >>> >>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>> a >>> >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>> and >>> >>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, >>> >>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>> the >>> >>> key and independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 14:00:03 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:00:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Message-ID: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045@mx.google.com> I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get on certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better than Keyweb. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" Message-ID: <002601cd69a8$0205a900$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> That's not a good enough justification Beth. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility > integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech > support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good > English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is > not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do > because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I > can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to > use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 14:30:57 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:30:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Message-ID: <500eb1b9.288c320a.65ea.619f@mx.google.com> Noth8ing's ever a good enough justification. I'm sorry, but justification is very hard to do, and I mean really hard. There is justification though for the fact that universal accessibility should be built into computers. Windows attempted it with Narrator, and Narrator sucks. Apple got the Bolotton Award for 2010 for its integration of Voiceover in ALL of its products. IOS and OS Lion both have some form of it. I am lucky my friend Jataya purchased an iPod touch for me, which alllows me to write emails and talk on Skype with friends. I can't live without it, and if I hadn't had it, I wouldn't have survived so many months without a working PC or Mac. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com> It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as well. Basically here's what this comes down to. You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility > integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good > tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't > speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its > people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I > said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no > answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want > a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 14:41:40 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1343140900.96685.YahooMailClassic@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Arielle and all, They never had sign in and sign out policy before when I would go to the LWSB as it was known back then. However, the area where WSB is located has become dramatically worse. I lived in a on campus apartment across from WSB when I was working on my graduate certificate at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, and one night a friend and I were dropping off a friend who lived in a off campus across from UALR and close to the WSB. This friend who is sighted looked around to make sure knowone was around when he got out and was very careful until he go into his apartment. So to be honest I am not sure why WSB has a sign in and sign out policy, but to be quite honest I am not sure whats been going on there recently. Matybe something has happened that caused them to bring this policy and without knowing the reason for why this policy came about, it would not be fair for us to come to a conclusion. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:54 PM > Agreed. Is there any reason why a > center needs to keep up with > students' whereabouts any more than a college dorm needs to > keep up > with its residents' whereabouts? One could argue that if a > college > student gets hurt, the university or dormitory could be held > liable > for that as well. > When I lived in the dorm I think we were required to sign > out or at > least tell our dorm residential advisor (RA) if we were > leaving for an > extended period, like a weekend or vacation. This seemed > fair to me > and I always abided by that rule. But I would never want to > live > somewhere where I had to let an authority figure know every > time I > wanted to head to the grocery store, friend's house, bar or > anywhere > else for just a few hours. > If a center student doesn't show up to class, or a roommate > reports > them missing, then the staff will attempt to track the > student down. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/21/12, Peter Donahue > wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > >     And since most people these > days have cell phones if the center needs to > > > > locate a particular student chances they're only a cell > phone away. > > > > Peter Donahue > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jedi" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training > Centers > > > > > > I don't understand the sign-out thing. The staff of the > LCB never asked > > students (in the two times I spent extended time there > for training and > > my O and M degree) to sign out or in. It was just > expected that, since > > everyone there are adults, they could handle > themselves. when students > > went out for independent travel lessons, the teachers > would go looking > > for them only if they were gone for a longer amount of > time than would > > be necessary under normal circumstances. And if, while > making a pass by > > the student, they seemed okay, were on track, and > getting near the > > school, then the teachers would let the students get on > with things and > > debrief the route as usual. Most of the time though, > travel instructors > > and their students had each other's cell numbers for > checking in with > > each other as needed. After school, the staff honestly > had no idea > > where students were. Again, it was just assumed that, > like any other > > adult, they could handle themselves. It was also > understood that the > > students looked out for each other as needed and the > staff would only > > intervene if the situation called for it. Otherwise, > the staff of the > > LCB firmly believed that blind adults are, well, adults > and don't need > > anyone to look after them as though they were > teenagers. So in summary, > > I think the sign-in/out procedure says a lot about how > the center views > > their students: are they viewed as people needing > someone to watch over > > them, or are they adults there to learn a new set of > skills to maintain > > their independence? > > > > Respectfully, > > Jedi > > > > > > Original message: > >> Brandon, > >> I'm not saying you let them know where you are; > just signing in and out. > >> They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. > >> You may not know where you're going, good point. I > agree about the > >> transit > >> thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save > money by buying cheap > >> land. > >> Since training centers need to account for everyone > , I can see why they > >> due > >> that. They might have a legal obligation to know if > you are on or off > >> property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to > do with that. When we > >> had > >> a drill at college, they took attendance before > everyone left. It was a > >> community college though and may be less common at > universities. > > > >> It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students > in the best > >> situation, > >> they would relocate to a safer area. > >> But I can understand the sign out thing. > > > >> Ashley > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training > Centers > > > >> I totally Agree, training centers should be in the > areas where blind > >> people > >> would be most likely to live, not the cheapest > place to live. I was at a > >> program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't > too bad, a guy found a > >> dead body at a bus stop when I was there... > >> Also, I am a firm believer in training centers > being in a town with good > >> public transportation, NOT LA! > > > >> Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your > child's cell phone? > >> That's > >> what my parents did/do when I was at a training > program and now living on > >> > >> my > >> own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am > you can call me... In a > >> new city I'm probably going to not know what's > around, so most of my > >> outings > >> will say something like "exploring" or "taking a > walk." Of course if I'm > >> staying any extended time at a place where my phone > is going to be off > >> for > >> most of the time, I should let someone know where I > am, but I go > >> everywhere > >> in my area and it would just become too much to > tell someone where I am > >> at > >> all times. > >> Thanks, > > > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ashley Bramlett > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training > Centers > > > >> Dave, > >> Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you > there for a vocational > >> program or independent living? I've heard good > things about the > >> vocational > >> tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills > teaching. Its sad to > >> house > >> a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems > counter productive > >> because the director should want students to get > out and do their own > >> thing. > >> There is a tendency to exaggerate here because > people like nfb centers > >> more. > >> Its nfb list after all. > >> Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? > >> Ashley > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dave Webster > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM > >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing > list' > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training > Centers > > > >> Hi.  My name is Dave.  I actually have > been to both centers lcb and > >> wsb which is world services for the blind which > formally was lions world > >> services for the blind.  I attended lcb back > when Joanne was director. > >> World services gane me good training in a > vocational skill but you're > >> right > >> it didn't give good training in personal management > skills.  things such > >> as > >> cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all > that great.  One of the > >> things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very > very bad area of Little > >> rock.  I would not want to go out on my own > especially at night.  Noone > >> could pay me enough money to do that.  its > such a bad enough area that > >> people have heard gun shots on campus.  People > have seen others get > >> arrested > >> right there in front of the school so.  Just > my thoughts.-----Original > >> Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf > >> Of Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training > Centers > > > >> Hi all, > >> I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its > quality as a center > >> for > >> specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I > have heard lots of > >> negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing > as what Amber related. > >> > >> I > >> will, however, comment on the fact that WSB > apparently houses students in > >> dormitories and does not give students any > opportunities to prepare their > >> own meals or, presumably, to travel very far > between home and campus. I am > >> > >> a > >> proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB > centers for many reasons, > >> but one of the biggest differences I can see > between good and bad > >> training > >> centers is whether or not students live on or off > campus. This is simply > >> because, in my experience, at least half of what I > gained from attending > >> a > >> center were things I learned off campus by cooking, > cleaning and > >> traveling > >> on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a > residential center, > >> you > >> really need to get the most bang for your buck, so > to speak, and I think > >> dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are > able to learn from > >> the > >> experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired > at LCB that I still > >> use > >> on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and > confidently cross the > >> street > >> at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a > few times in travel > >> class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I > acquired in crossing > >> uncontrolled intersections came from needing to > cross Bonner and > >> Mississippi > >> twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my > off-campus apartment. > >> Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to > improve nonvisual > >> cooking > >> and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how > you can really > >> practice > >> those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, > but that's about it. > >> Training isn't about just trying something out once > or twice, but instead > >> it's about practice and repetition, which is best > gotten when you are > >> doing > >> things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on > a regular basis and > >> out > >> of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in > and out must really > >> make > >> people less motivated to venture out on their > own--but that's a whole > >> other > >> issue. > >> So if you are struggling between center options, > I'd urge you to consider > >> whether the living situation is on or off campus as > a major factor in > >> your > >> decision. > >> BTW, I think someone might have posted recently > with questions about LCB, > >> but I don't recall who it was. If you still have > questions, you can give > >> me > >> a call at > >> 602-502-2255 > >> There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience > and a live  phone > >> conversation will probably be more helpful than > email. > >> Best, > >> Arielle > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne > >> t > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 14:55:25 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:55:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045@mx.google.com> References: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <210D4FBCFBDD40659314B91F0A31B6B9@OwnerPC> Beth, Oh, I'm glad you can use a braille note to do email. That is a good thing! That is definitely an awesome notetaker too. Yes, I agree a braille not cannot do all websites, that is why a computer is needed for that. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get on certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better than Keyweb. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> <500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> Tyler, While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be supportive. A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 messages to read on the rehab thread, but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a mac. I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons, but rehab did not get them one. Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a pc through them. At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college a third time for you. I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other means. You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games including the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and more. Yet blind children do not get computers and the software to run them. Something is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my braille note. So they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and sending me to school which is part of rasing a kid. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as well. Basically here's what this comes down to. You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility > integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech > support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good > English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is > not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do > because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I > can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to > use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 15:11:18 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:11:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158DFD04@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><5008E8BF.4000106@tysdomain.com><5008EDCB.9010107@tysdomain.com><5008F336.3060003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Josh, Mike i s staying in ACB btw; he said that on an ACB list. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy What? After he posted on NFB-Talk, saying that he was leaving them? Wow! Thanks, Joshua On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got > slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't > clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you > just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond > by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of > the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it > works well. > On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. > For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be > phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would > still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for > a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be > modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade > games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That > would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have > the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy > wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other > country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. > Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree > with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for > or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's > like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't > want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough > of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. > While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an > organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded > individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either > organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both > because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, > support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for > so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all > deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our > own self-discovery. > Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to > stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about > people without knowing the whole story. > > On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >> Josh, >> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm >> and really go for it, but I have to. >> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and >> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me >> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam >> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but >> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and >> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of >> money to make this accessible." >> >> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get >> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back >> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and >> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you >> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your >> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. >> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless >> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and >> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not >> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I >> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things >> costing to much a few messages back. >> >> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I >> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid >> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a >> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. >> >> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and >> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay >> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we >> can't have something costing money now, can we? >> >> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work >> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip >> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on >> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would >> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them >> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone >> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and >> announces it. >> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >>> currency. >>> What is your idea of accessible currency? >>> I'm curious! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>>> session from 8 to 5. >>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>>> You should know! >>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>>> the IBill out of business. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>>> Josh, >>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>>> you >>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>>> Not >>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that the >>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on what >>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental philosophy >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken >>>>>>>> differing >>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily >>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>>> choices >>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big group >>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the >>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine >>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them down. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front even >>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will fight >>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other words, >>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free >>>>>>>>> dinner, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who disagrees >>>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with it >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when someone >>>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being a >>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have to >>>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I know >>>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who >>>>>>>>> hears >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” >>>>>>>>> —MARGARET >>>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Ty >>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>> he >>>>>> that >>>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 15:17:09 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:17:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <002101cd668d$33b479e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <5008e631.288c320a.5492.ffffb63f@mx.google.com> <002101cd668d$33b479e0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <50370E2A0E8245EDAF1D54F3A1D0C347@OwnerPC> Peter, its not that simple; you have to justify it to rehab. I think she should help herself via the steps I outlined before an advocate. Steps were getting it in writing, going to her counselor's supervisor and maybe holding another meeting but this time get it recorded. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:34 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college Hello Beth and everyone, Appeal! And get the NFB involved as your advocate. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:01 AM Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working computerfor college Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? Thanks, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 15:22:17 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:22:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Ignasi, where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school without rehab if you can pay for it. That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my college choices. -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want > to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut > they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 15:25:20 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:25:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity In-Reply-To: References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0017@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Julie, there is debate, but speaking out only can go so far. -----Original Message----- From: Julie McGinnity Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity Hi all, While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather close. We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be extremely boring and would not make a good organization. On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Justin, > Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. > While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) > have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating > member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those > disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and > programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's > why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my > admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold > myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and > paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. > "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National > Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security > for the blind; to > support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by > its constitution." > I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to > support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances > when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation > takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement > publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar > by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known > outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the > Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. > No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on > which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly > right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's > official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could > happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, > wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with > about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough > for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without > signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I > see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of > course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to > sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my > beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. > Best, > Kirt > > On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >> two >> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >> opinions >> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >> >> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >> >> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >> >> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone >> from Baltimore told me what to do. >> >> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >> that >> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member >> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >> within >> us. >> >> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >> organization >> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >> much >> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >> our >> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >> not >> even have closets in which to sit. >> >> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I >> was >> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some people >> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >> >> Justin >> >> Justin M. Salisbury >> Class of 2012 >> B.A. in Mathematics >> East Carolina University >> president at alumni.ecu.edu >> >> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >> change >> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 14:28:08 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:28:08 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com><-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <529CB72704474E4BBEE1E15B5B4E071A@userPC> I payed for school the second time I went threw to become a massage therapist because rehab wouldn't pay for me to go to school a second time. I am glad I did. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor college Ignasi, where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school without rehab if you can pay for it. That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my college choices. -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm > "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no > proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want > to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut > they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should > just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in > order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the > adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor > know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. > Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you > really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want > in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a > Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. > They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key > and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 15:31:41 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:31:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort of thing? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things back. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews References: Message-ID: <8E58F9BBDEAC4412BFEECE71E530B4AF@osb.local> Hi everyone, I use the iPad with the Apex as a display with my blind students and haven't had any issues with the display accessing book in iBooks. If I had iPod Touch units I would probably use them as well with my blind students. In my experience, the displays will access what ever VoiceOver will access. I have put together a booklet that I call, iPad Accessibility. It will walk you through different tasks and as you complete the tasks you will learn how to use the many access gestures and commands available. It's focus is the iPad but almost all, if not all of these tasks can also be completed on the iPhone and iPod Touch. I have two PDF formats, one with graphics and one without graphics. The one without graphics works really well with a screen reader such as JAWS. It has 6 parts, part 1 is mainstream access, part 2 is the iPad with VoiceOver, part 3 is the iPad with Zoom, parts 4, 5 and 6 deal with the iPad and 3 different braille displays. The displays are Refershabraille 18, Focus 40 Blue, and the Apex as a display. If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of this booklet email me at rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us and I will send it to you at no cost. I hope life is good for everyone! Robert Where there's a will, there's a way! -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:32 AM To: Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 69, Issue 48 > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ipad and apex question (Ignasi Cambra) > 2. Re: why I want a mac (Ignasi Cambra) > 3. Re: why I want a mac (Beth) > 4. Re: why I want a mac (josh gregory) > 5. Re: why I want a mac (josh gregory) > 6. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college (Carly Mihalakis) > 7. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college (josh gregory) > 8. Re: NFB Philosophy (Ashley Bramlett) > 9. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college (Ashley Bramlett) > 10. Re: NFB AZ (Ashley Bramlett) > 11. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college (Ashley Bramlett) > 12. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett) > 13. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett) > 14. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college (Gloria G) > 15. Re: NFB AZ (Deb Mendelsohn) > 16. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college (Rania Ismail CMT) > 17. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college (Rania Ismail CMT) > 18. Re: why I want a mac (Beth) > 19. Re: why I want a mac (RJ Sandefur) > 20. Re: why I want a mac (Beth) > 21. Re: why I want a mac (Littlefield, Tyler) > 22. Re: Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers (Anmol Bhatia) > 23. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett) > 24. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett) > 25. Re: NFB Philosophy (Ashley Bramlett) > 26. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college (Ashley Bramlett) > 27. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college (Ashley Bramlett) > 28. Re: Philosophical Homogeneity (Ashley Bramlett) > 29. Re: meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor > college (Rania Ismail CMT) > 30. Re: meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor > college (Ashley Bramlett) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:18:46 -0700 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question > Message-ID: <1339387574727460513 at unknownmsgid> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I have never used an iOS device with a braille display, but if you > are planning on using it from the Apex's keyboard I don't see the > point of having iPad. I would say an iPod touch or iPhone will do the > same for you and both of those devices take a lot less space than the > iPad. If you are going to keep using the iPad try to leave your > Braille Note alone for a couple of weeks and get used to the touch > screen. Then go back to the BN and use it for typing if that's faster > for you. You can double tap an edit field to edit its content. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 23, 2012, at 1:45 PM, vejas wrote: > >> Hi, >> I am beginning to learn how to use the ipad. I am using my braillenote >> apex to act as a display, and therefore use the braille note keyboard to >> control the ipad. I had 2 questions. >> My first question is, when I open up IBooks, Voice-Over reads the book, >> but it doesn't appear on the Braille display. How do I get the text of >> the book on the display? >> Second, how do you go into a text field? >> Thanks, >> Vejas >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <7875962367206091665 at unknownmsgid> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Beth, > I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to want a > Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better user > experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. Now... > If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine could > I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I didn't > really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable but is > also not rehab's problem. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak >> good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, >> blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, >> "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for >> me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I >> want to be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:09:13 -0600 > From: Beth > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is > broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go > in the trash. That's all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Beth, > I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to > want a > Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better > user > experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. > Now... > If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine > could > I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I > didn't > really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable > but is > also not rehab's problem. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth > wrote: > > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want > something with good tech support. The tech support people from > India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the > demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to > be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because > JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all > I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to > be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:15:06 -0400 > From: josh gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Can't blame you at all, Beth! I got one, for the same reasons as you. > I generally love it! It has it's flaws, but nothing future updates > can't fix. And there aren't a lot of them at that. > > On 7/24/12, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal >> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want >> something with good tech support. The tech support people from >> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the >> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to >> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because >> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all >> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to >> be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:16:31 -0400 > From: josh gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ignasi, quite true. It's the same for me, as you. Just replace rehab > with parents. > > On 7/24/12, josh gregory wrote: >> Can't blame you at all, Beth! I got one, for the same reasons as you. >> I generally love it! It has it's flaws, but nothing future updates >> can't fix. And there aren't a lot of them at that. >> >> On 7/24/12, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, all. >>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal >>> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want >>> something with good tech support. The tech support people from >>> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the >>> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to >>> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because >>> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all >>> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to >>> be able to use one so bad. >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:14:35 -0700 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120724041122.01c4f880 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Good morning, Desiree, > > I know at my school and probably at others as well, they offer free > tutoring in all the school's subjects which can make all the > difference if you are floundering. So you need not pay for tutoring. > Ask the administration about the tutoring center.strong point. I know > for example that my >>math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >>teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >>long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >>tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >>Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >>stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >>uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >>those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >>to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >>was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >>nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >>would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >>something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >>cheating. >>I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >>to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >>calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >>just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >>fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >>The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >>people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >>term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >>math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >>might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >>the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >>noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >>maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >>I'm really not sure. >>I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >>makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >>need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >>surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >>astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >>running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >>We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >>blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >>ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >>and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >>people this stupid? >> >>On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> > Tyler, >> > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> > state, >> > >> > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, >> > but >> > I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> > So I think it will be hard to get one. >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Littlefield, Tyler >> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> > computerfor college >> > >> > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, >> > just >> > get a pc. >> > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> >> this >> >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment >> >> by a >> >> >> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >> >> succeeding >> >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >> >> have >> >> >> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >> >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >> >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >> >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >> >> want >> >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> >> have a >> >> >> >> Mac. >> >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >> >> and >> >> >> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> >> have, >> >> >> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >> >> the >> >> >> >> key and independence is the way. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> >> computerfor college >> >> >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Beth >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Take care, >> > Ty >> > http://tds-solutions.net >> > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >> fool; he that >> > >> > dares not reason is a slave. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:21:04 -0400 > From: josh gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > What else did you mean to say, Carly? The full message isn't here. > Well, either that or Gmail's cutting it short. > > On 7/24/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Good morning, Desiree, >> >> I know at my school and probably at others as well, they offer free >> tutoring in all the school's subjects which can make all the >> difference if you are floundering. So you need not pay for tutoring. >> Ask the administration about the tutoring center.strong point. I know >> for example that my >>>math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >>>teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >>>long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >>>tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >>>Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >>>stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >>>uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >>>those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >>>to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >>>was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >>>nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >>>would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >>>something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >>>cheating. >>>I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >>>to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >>>calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >>>just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >>>fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >>>The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >>>people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >>>term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >>>math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >>>might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >>>the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >>>noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >>>maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >>>I'm really not sure. >>>I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >>>makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >>>need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >>>surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >>>astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >>>running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >>>We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >>>blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >>>ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >>>and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >>>people this stupid? >>> >>>On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> > Tyler, >>> > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and >>> > Beth >>> > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>> > state, >>> > >>> > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, >>> > but >>> > I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>> > So I think it will be hard to get one. >>> > Ashley >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> > computerfor college >>> > >>> > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>> > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>> > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, >>> > just >>> > get a pc. >>> > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> >> Hello, >>> >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>> >> should >>> >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>> >> this >>> >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment >>> >> by >>> >> a >>> >> >>> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>> >> succeeding >>> >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>> >> have >>> >> >>> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> >> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >>> >> want >>> >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>> >> have >>> >> a >>> >> >>> >> Mac. >>> >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for >>> >> you. >>> >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>> >> and >>> >> >>> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> >> have, >>> >> >>> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>> >> the >>> >> >>> >> key and independence is the way. >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> >>> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> >> computerfor college >>> >> >>> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> Beth >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Take care, >>> > Ty >>> > http://tds-solutions.net >>> > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>> fool; he that >>> > >>> > dares not reason is a slave. >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:33:06 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > Message-ID: <91205FFAD67F4E178BAC4C081DF06E65 at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ks_c_5601-1987"; > reply-type=original > > Vejas, > ACB is the other organization, american council of the blind. > > -----Original Message----- > From: vejas > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:12 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > What is the ABC? > Vejas > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:08:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Josh, > First, his last name is spelled wrong. Second, > Second, I think based on comments from other lists that he is > staying with > ACB. As to who is joining whom, unless you have stats to back it > up, I > suspect that organization membership is declining. This because > not enough > young people are involved in NFB and old members are dying out. > I saw on > nfb-talk that two or maybe three members just passed away. A few > members in > my state have passed too such as Sevelle Allen. Leaders seem to > retire and > pass away or move away. So really, I'm not so sure nfb > membership is > increasing so much as to shout about it like we're better than > ACB. I just > don't think young generations join advocacy groups as much, even > if they're > blind. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Well: the good thing is, that people are leaving the ACB, and > joining > us, because they realize that we're right. > Think about Mike Coppell, (one of their prized members,) who has > just > left them, and joined us! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages > and > frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something > that will > make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than > minimum wage > is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages. > Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both > wrong? > As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this > last year, > we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we > know we are > right, we will win. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > Arielle: that was a great post. > I just have one question about this. > If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, > "Do Not > Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," > resolution at their convention? > Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below > the > federally mandated minimum wage. > Hmmm! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was > excellent. I would also add two things: > 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In > fact, I > would argue that most committed ACB members and many other > successful > blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also > espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean > described. The > NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that > does > not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or > encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that > the > ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on > what > happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it > occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the > organization should be structured, not about fundamental > philosophy of > blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken > differing > approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily > mean > that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't > think > the two organizations should merge into one super-organization > of > blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have > choices > about which organization to join and that there's not one big > group > monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that > the NFB > and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing > what > it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. > > 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine > years I > have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB > increasingly > takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both > individual > coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them > down. I > would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become > available online, and you will find that most of these > resolutions > address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for > their > removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction > of > pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front > even > since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, > though we > are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access > for > blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will > take time > for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we > are also > working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to > those > barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will > fight > for full access to educational technology, but instead of > waiting to > enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work > to > harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so > that we > can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other > words, > instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design > against > each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual > approach > toward both of these goals? > Arielle > > On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: > I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. > > Tyler: > I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't > fully > agree > with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that > hesitation > about getting involved with organized religion. I started going > to a > campus > ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free > dinner, and > I > quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In > some > churches, > the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that > everyone in > the > church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who > disagrees > slightly > is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we > understand > that > people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's > okay to > disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have > generally > the > same core beliefs. > That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with > something > we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with > it > because > that's my individual personality. I often find that, when > someone > disagrees > with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of > understanding of > what > we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I > won't > shun > you. > > Marc Workman: > Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the > barriers. Why > do > you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an > absolutely > amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor > adaptability > because > there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work > on > those > barriers. > On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a > colored > person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and > I don't > bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of > it. > Quite > frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being > a > colored > person. With the first generation college student part, I have > to seek > mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I > know many, > many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that > role for > me. > Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with > you > before" > in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've > realized in > retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who > hears me > and > myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal > attack. I'm > not > saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did > read it > that > way. > > Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: > In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of > their > dreams > and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for > people to > reach > for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. > With hope > life > always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The > NFB to > me > is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me > if I > need > it. > > Yours in Federationism, > > Justin Salisbury > > Justin M. Salisbury > Class of 2012 > B.A. in Mathematics > East Carolina University > president at alumni.ecu.edu > > ?ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed > citizens can > change > the world; indeed, it? the only thing that ever has.? > ?ARGARET MEAD > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink..net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g > mail.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:46:33 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Desiree, > I am not strong in math and science. We all need some assistance in some > areas; for my brother it was writing and english. For me, it was math and > science. I'm not sure where these ideas come from. Like Tyler, I feel that > tutoring can be helpful unless you struggle in major classes; then change > majors. Otherwise > get a tutor to get through a difficult class or two. Undergrad requires so > many gen ed classes > that all people struggle in something. In my school at least, tutors were > employed by the school and had to have references for it. Not only that, > they had to have taken the class in which they tutored and gotten an A or > B. > They are some of the best in their subjects; most really enjoy tutoring; > if > they did not, they would probably get an easier job like information desk > assistant. > As to them thinking badly since you're blind, I highly doubt that. As > others > said, students are more mature in college and I think they would tutor you > like any other student. > > If you pay a private tutor, I see what you mean. You pay just as much for > the tutor as you do for the class, if not more! But, if one can afford it, > I > see nothing wrong with that. > Surely, no one would think you're dumb for getting help in a few classes. > I > mean all students do it. It shows some maturity to speak up and > get help in your weak areas. > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > Hi all, > Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my > math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the > teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did > long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would > tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. > Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other > stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as > uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in > those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used > to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c > was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed > nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I > would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing > something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for > cheating. > I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes > to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even > calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's > just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to > fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. > The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some > people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short > term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or > math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You > might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through > the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to > noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and > maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences > I'm really not sure. > I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that > makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you > need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame > surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an > astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go > running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. > We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with > blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how > ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two > and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind > people this stupid? > > On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >> state, >> >> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >> So I think it will be hard to get one. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >> get a pc. >> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this >>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding >>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>> have >>> >>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>> a >>> >>> Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>> and >>> >>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, >>> >>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>> the >>> >>> key and independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that >> >> dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:53:57 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB AZ > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Deb, > if you don't get an answer here, check with your state president. they > coordinate rooms for people. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ > > Hi all, > Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September? > I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a > grant to attend Dallas. > TIA > Deb > > * > * > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:03:49 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > Message-ID: <053B4F16BFEA450FBD60C4460BE572CF at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Tyler, > Good post. I'll add that college i s what you make it. You can study and > get > good grades or just skate through barly passing. > Its quite hard. But if it were easy, we'd have more college grads. College > is higher education separating the educated from the not so educated. > > Yep, respect is what you make it. I could write so much on that. I've > known > many blind people who were bullyed or had issues in public school; yet, in > college, they really shined and got involved in studies and clubs that > they > wanted to. > So, I guess my point is just since you had a bad experience in high school > or public schools, it doesn't mean that translates to college. > > I encourage anyone who needs it to avail yourselves of college resources > like tutoring, academic advising, the library, and professors. Professors > have been great to me in general; sure a few here and there suck about > accomodations, but overall they were helpful. They often went out of their > way to help. My intro to computers professor brought in parts of a > computer > for me to feel. > How awesome to see the hard drive and actual memory chips on the > motherboard; I did not see the pictures, so > this was helpful. Other professors have sat with me and given me feedback > on > my papers before grading them and this was nice because I cannot read > their > comments and it made their expectations clearer. Other professors just > helped me more and described charts or diagrams they had. > Professors will also write reference letters for you. > > I think you can gain respect in college you did not have before. You can > find your niche sort of by choosing your major and what to engage in > outside > school. Self esteem improves too if you get involved in stuff and try new > things. > > That said, college isn't for everyone, and if Desiree feels its not for > her, > that is okay. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > I'm sorry I'm not helping the pity party here, but for most people, > respect is what you earn. If you don't earn their respect, then you > don't get it, and it's pretty simple. Just because someone is in college > doesn't mean they're priviledged. I know people that are going on a > full-ride scholarship. Sure it sucks that I have to pay, but I can > guarantee you they worked their ass off in school to get it. Why am I > not going on a full ride? It's simple, I didn't happen to do that. Sure > there are people that that doesn't apply to, but not everyone gets the > golden platter handed to them; personally, as hard as things may be, I'm > glad I didn't. I can tell you that when I graduated high school and > later when I graduate college, I'm going to appreciate it a lot more > than someone with the golden platter. > > We've also all had our own fair share of issues in school as a blind > student, it doesn't reflect badly on the human race as a whole, it's > just life again. It wasn't such a huge problem for me until high school, > but when high school rolled around and I started caring enough to want > to get good grades, I'll tell you it wasn't easy. I made numerous trips > across the school every day to make sure everything was getting > brailled; it really depended greatly on the teacher, and I got a few > that I had to yell at and then getting everything I needed was a miracle > by itself. > > Going to college is a privilege, not a right. Yes, it's harder if you're > blind, yes, it's harder if you don't have scholarships, c'est la vie. > I've always had the mindset that your life is what you make it. As I > said, no-one is great at everything, and everyone struggles with some > classes, it's the way it is. If life were easy, everyone would have gone > to college and we wouldn't have this debate. Ultimately though, the > choice is yours; you can accept life as it is and do the best with it, > or you can complain about it. > On 7/23/2012 7:54 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Oh, that was just grade school. But none of my experiences throughout >> the time I was in school were all that great, which makes me not only >> doubt the human race as a whole, but also has lead me to believe that >> while you're in school, you have no rights. This goes for college too >> since it's an institution of learning. Sure, people are paying to go >> there, but let's get real. Some are riding on a scholarship, so >> they're not paying out of pocket, or some have their parents pay for >> them. In the case of blind people, rehab pays for most, if not all of >> your college education if you play by their rules. I really wasn't >> trying to start a debate about my situation though. I consider myself >> to be a realist. I know what I am and am not good at. No amount of >> convincing myself that I'm good at math will make it so. No amount of >> convincing yourself that you can see will make it so, either. There's >> a fine line between being hopeful and sticking your head in the >> clouds. >> The only reason I revealed any of this at all is because some of us >> didn't grow up privileged. Some of us had to fight for every hint of >> respect we ever got. Some of us haven't been respected in so long that >> we don't even know what it feels like anymore. I get the feeling that >> that's kind of what Beth was saying too. I'll take the tirade of >> criticism that's sure to rain down on me for saying that, but at least >> I'm being honest. >> >> On 7/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> If you knew you were better than the people in your math class, then you >>> probably will be. It's also a mind set. You are the smartest person the >>> school has ever had, and you will do just about anything to show that >>> you're >>> >>> the smartest. >>> BTW, cheating is more trouble than it's worth. So if you think you're >>> cheating to make something easier, you probably aren't cheeting. High >>> school >>> >>> doesn't count for much in the real world, so I'm sorry for the horrid >>> things >>> >>> they did to you, but college math courses are often lots more fun. >>> My college has a class called, math for non mathematical people, and >>> it's >>> how to do math without thinking about math. >>> BTW, you can't really do stats without using a calculator. >>> If you want to do something, nurture that want and make it a need, then >>> fulfill that need. Once the step has been taken and you're in your first >>> day >>> >>> of class, it's not long till you've gotten an A at the end of the >>> quarter. >>> So believe you're the best and then be the best. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:54 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my >>> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >>> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >>> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >>> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >>> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >>> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >>> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >>> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >>> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >>> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >>> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >>> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >>> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >>> cheating. >>> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >>> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >>> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >>> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >>> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >>> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >>> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >>> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >>> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >>> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >>> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >>> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >>> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >>> I'm really not sure. >>> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >>> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >>> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >>> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >>> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >>> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >>> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >>> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >>> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >>> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >>> people this stupid? >>> >>> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Tyler, >>>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >>>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>>> state, >>>> >>>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, >>>> but >>>> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>>> So I think it will be hard to get one. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Littlefield, Tyler >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, >>>> just >>>> get a pc. >>>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this >>>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment >>>>> by >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>>> succeeding >>>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>>>> have >>>>> >>>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>>>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >>>>> want >>>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, >>>>> >>>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> key and independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that >>>> >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Beth, > then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined? > If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for you. > BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy macs. > Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment. employers > use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in microsoft and > windows applications. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is > broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go > in the trash. That's all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Beth, > I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to > want a > Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better > user > experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. > Now... > If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine > could > I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I > didn't > really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable > but is > also not rehab's problem. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth > wrote: > > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want > something with good tech support. The tech support people from > India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the > demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to > be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because > JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all > I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to > be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:11:52 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <587E52F99AAC4D368490520D1135511F at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; > reply-type=response > > Beth, > Rehab doesn't care what you want. they care about what will make you > employed. Sorry to say it this way, but it?s the truth. > I'd say you need to justify your needs in writing and see if other vr > clients have gotten macs. > If they won't buy it, get one through other sources such as family or a > lions club. You can go to college with a windows pc, so if rehab will buy > you one, > use that. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want > something with good tech support. The tech support people from > India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the > demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to > be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because > JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all > I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to > be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:26:25 -0500 > From: "Gloria G" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, > I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't > think > people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even > sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I > used > a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping > me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who > you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we > all > are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do > everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It > takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > >> Hi all, >> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my >> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >> cheating. >> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >> I'm really not sure. >> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >> people this stupid? >> >> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Tyler, >>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>> state, >>> >>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >>> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>> So I think it will be hard to get one. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >>> get a pc. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this >>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>> succeeding >>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>>> have >>>> >>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >>>> want >>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>>> a >>>> >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>>> and >>>> >>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> >>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>>> the >>>> >>>> key and independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:13:17 -0700 > From: Deb Mendelsohn > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB AZ > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Ashley, > I will bring it up at our August meeting. > Thank you! > Deb > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Ashley Bramlett > wrote: > >> Deb, >> if you don't get an answer here, check with your state president. they >> coordinate rooms for people. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ >> >> >> Hi all, >> Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September? >> I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a >> grant to attend Dallas. >> TIA >> Deb >> >> * >> * >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.** >> mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:36:00 -0300 > From: "Rania Ismail CMT" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I agree with what was said. I am not that good at math either. > If you need help ask for it. Sighted people get th It's nothing to be > ashamed of. > Rania,e help they need all the time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hi, > I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't > think > > people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even > sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I > used > a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping > me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who > you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we > all > > are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do > everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It > takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > >> Hi all, >> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my >> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >> cheating. >> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >> I'm really not sure. >> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >> people this stupid? >> >> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Tyler, >>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>> state, >>> >>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >>> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>> So I think it will be hard to get one. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >>> get a pc. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this >>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>> succeeding >>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>>> have >>>> >>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >>>> want >>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>>> a >>>> >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>>> and >>>> >>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> >>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>>> the >>>> >>>> key and independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:36:11 -0300 > From: "Rania Ismail CMT" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > Message-ID: <86F6B5E229CE44CEB283932911D244B5 at userPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I agree with what was said. I am not that good at math either. > If you need help ask for it. Sighted people get th It's nothing to be > ashamed of. > Rania,e help they need all the time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hi, > I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't > think > > people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even > sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I > used > a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping > me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who > you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we > all > > are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do > everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It > takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > >> Hi all, >> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my >> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the >> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did >> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would >> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn. >> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other >> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as >> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in >> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used >> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c >> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed >> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I >> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing >> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for >> cheating. >> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes >> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even >> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's >> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to >> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating. >> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some >> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short >> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or >> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You >> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through >> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to >> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and >> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences >> I'm really not sure. >> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that >> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you >> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame >> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an >> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go >> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help. >> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with >> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how >> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two >> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind >> people this stupid? >> >> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Tyler, >>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth >>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my >>> state, >>> >>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but >>> I've never heard of them going the apple route. >>> So I think it will be hard to get one. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple >>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it >>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just >>> get a pc. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this >>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>> succeeding >>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to >>>> have >>>> >>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a >>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be >>>> dependable and has the best support in the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you >>>> want >>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have >>>> a >>>> >>>> Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving >>>> and >>>> >>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, >>>> >>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is >>>> the >>>> >>>> key and independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co > m >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:00:03 -0600 > From: Beth > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get > on certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better > than Keyweb. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Beth, > then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined? > If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for > you. > BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy > macs. > Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment. > employers > use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in > microsoft and > windows applications. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is > broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go > in the trash. That's all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Beth, > I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to > want a > Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better > user > experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. > Now... > If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine > could > I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I > didn't > really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable > but is > also not rehab's problem. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth wrote: > > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want > something with good tech support. The tech support people from > India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the > demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to > be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because > JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all > I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to > be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:24:16 -0400 > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <002601cd69a8$0205a900$0402a8c0 at hometwxakonvzn> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > That's not a good enough justification Beth. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech >> support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good >> English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is >> not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do >> because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all >> I >> can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to >> use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:30:57 -0600 > From: Beth > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <500eb1b9.288c320a.65ea.619f at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Noth8ing's ever a good enough justification. I'm sorry, but > justification is very hard to do, and I mean really hard. There > is justification though for the fact that universal accessibility > should be built into computers. Windows attempted it with > Narrator, and Narrator sucks. Apple got the Bolotton Award for > 2010 for its integration of Voiceover in ALL of its products. > IOS and OS Lion both have some form of it. I am lucky my friend > Jataya purchased an iPod touch for me, which alllows me to write > emails and talk on Skype with friends. I can't live without it, > and if I hadn't had it, I wouldn't have survived so many months > without a working PC or Mac. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:24:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > That's not a good enough justification Beth. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility > integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with > good tech > support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't > speak good > English, and given the demographics of india and its people, > blindness is > not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat > do I do > because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. > That's all I > can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be > able to > use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa > ndefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:36:46 -0600 > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <500EB2FE.1030805 at tysdomain.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't >> speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its >> people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I >> said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no >> answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want >> a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:41:40 -0700 (PDT) > From: Anmol Bhatia > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers > Message-ID: > <1343140900.96685.YahooMailClassic at web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Arielle and all, > They never had sign in and sign out policy before when I would go to the > LWSB as it was known back then. However, the area where WSB is located has > become dramatically worse. I lived in a on campus apartment across from > WSB when I was working on my graduate certificate at the University of > Arkansas at Little Rock, and one night a friend and I were dropping off a > friend who lived in a off campus across from UALR and close to the WSB. > This friend who is sighted looked around to make sure knowone was around > when he got out and was very careful until he go into his apartment. So to > be honest I am not sure why WSB has a sign in and sign out policy, but to > be quite honest I am not sure whats been going on there recently. Matybe > something has happened that caused them to bring this policy and without > knowing the reason for why this policy came about, it would not be fair > for us to come to a conclusion. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:54 PM >> Agreed. Is there any reason why a >> center needs to keep up with >> students' whereabouts any more than a college dorm needs to >> keep up >> with its residents' whereabouts? One could argue that if a >> college >> student gets hurt, the university or dormitory could be held >> liable >> for that as well. >> When I lived in the dorm I think we were required to sign >> out or at >> least tell our dorm residential advisor (RA) if we were >> leaving for an >> extended period, like a weekend or vacation. This seemed >> fair to me >> and I always abided by that rule. But I would never want to >> live >> somewhere where I had to let an authority figure know every >> time I >> wanted to head to the grocery store, friend's house, bar or >> anywhere >> else for just a few hours. >> If a center student doesn't show up to class, or a roommate >> reports >> them missing, then the staff will attempt to track the >> student down. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 7/21/12, Peter Donahue >> wrote: >> > Hello everyone, >> > >> >? ???And since most people these >> days have cell phones if the center needs to >> > >> > locate a particular student chances they're only a cell >> phone away. >> > >> > Peter Donahue >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Jedi" >> > To: >> > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:17 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training >> Centers >> > >> > >> > I don't understand the sign-out thing. The staff of the >> LCB never asked >> > students (in the two times I spent extended time there >> for training and >> > my O and M degree) to sign out or in. It was just >> expected that, since >> > everyone there are adults, they could handle >> themselves. when students >> > went out for independent travel lessons, the teachers >> would go looking >> > for them only if they were gone for a longer amount of >> time than would >> > be necessary under normal circumstances. And if, while >> making a pass by >> > the student, they seemed okay, were on track, and >> getting near the >> > school, then the teachers would let the students get on >> with things and >> > debrief the route as usual. Most of the time though, >> travel instructors >> > and their students had each other's cell numbers for >> checking in with >> > each other as needed. After school, the staff honestly >> had no idea >> > where students were. Again, it was just assumed that, >> like any other >> > adult, they could handle themselves. It was also >> understood that the >> > students looked out for each other as needed and the >> staff would only >> > intervene if the situation called for it. Otherwise, >> the staff of the >> > LCB firmly believed that blind adults are, well, adults >> and don't need >> > anyone to look after them as though they were >> teenagers. So in summary, >> > I think the sign-in/out procedure says a lot about how >> the center views >> > their students: are they viewed as people needing >> someone to watch over >> > them, or are they adults there to learn a new set of >> skills to maintain >> > their independence? >> > >> > Respectfully, >> > Jedi >> > >> > >> > Original message: >> >> Brandon, >> >> I'm not saying you let them know where you are; >> just signing in and out. >> >> They ask you to do that at the state center in VA. >> >> You may not know where you're going, good point. I >> agree about the >> >> transit >> >> thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save >> money by buying cheap >> >> land. >> >> Since training centers need to account for everyone >> , I can see why they >> >> due >> >> that. They might have a legal obligation to know if >> you are on or off >> >> property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to >> do with that. When we >> >> had >> >> a drill at college, they took attendance before >> everyone left. It was a >> >> community college though and may be less common at >> universities. >> > >> >> It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students >> in the best >> >> situation, >> >> they would relocate to a safer area. >> >> But I can understand the sign out thing. >> > >> >> Ashley >> > >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training >> Centers >> > >> >> I totally Agree, training centers should be in the >> areas where blind >> >> people >> >> would be most likely to live, not the cheapest >> place to live. I was at a >> >> program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't >> too bad, a guy found a >> >> dead body at a bus stop when I was there... >> >> Also, I am a firm believer in training centers >> being in a town with good >> >> public transportation, NOT LA! >> > >> >> Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your >> child's cell phone? >> >> That's >> >> what my parents did/do when I was at a training >> program and now living on >> >> >> >> my >> >> own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am >> you can call me... In a >> >> new city I'm probably going to not know what's >> around, so most of my >> >> outings >> >> will say something like "exploring" or "taking a >> walk." Of course if I'm >> >> staying any extended time at a place where my phone >> is going to be off >> >> for >> >> most of the time, I should let someone know where I >> am, but I go >> >> everywhere >> >> in my area and it would just become too much to >> tell someone where I am >> >> at >> >> all times. >> >> Thanks, >> > >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training >> Centers >> > >> >> Dave, >> >> Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you >> there for a vocational >> >> program or independent living? I've heard good >> things about the >> >> vocational >> >> tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills >> teaching. Its sad to >> >> house >> >> a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems >> counter productive >> >> because the director should want students to get >> out and do their own >> >> thing. >> >> There is a tendency to exaggerate here because >> people like nfb centers >> >> more. >> >> Its nfb list after all. >> >> Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots? >> >> Ashley >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Dave Webster >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM >> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list' >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training >> Centers >> > >> >> Hi.? My name is Dave.? I actually have >> been to both centers lcb and >> >> wsb which is world services for the blind which >> formally was lions world >> >> services for the blind.? I attended lcb back >> when Joanne was director. >> >> World services gane me good training in a >> vocational skill but you're >> >> right >> >> it didn't give good training in personal management >> skills.? things such >> >> as >> >> cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all >> that great.? One of the >> >> things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very >> very bad area of Little >> >> rock.? I would not want to go out on my own >> especially at night.? Noone >> >> could pay me enough money to do that.? its >> such a bad enough area that >> >> people have heard gun shots on campus.? People >> have seen others get >> >> arrested >> >> right there in front of the school so.? Just >> my thoughts.-----Original >> >> Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training >> Centers >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its >> quality as a center >> >> for >> >> specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I >> have heard lots of >> >> negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing >> as what Amber related. >> >> >> >> I >> >> will, however, comment on the fact that WSB >> apparently houses students in >> >> dormitories and does not give students any >> opportunities to prepare their >> >> own meals or, presumably, to travel very far >> between home and campus. I am >> >> >> >> a >> >> proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB >> centers for many reasons, >> >> but one of the biggest differences I can see >> between good and bad >> >> training >> >> centers is whether or not students live on or off >> campus. This is simply >> >> because, in my experience, at least half of what I >> gained from attending >> >> a >> >> center were things I learned off campus by cooking, >> cleaning and >> >> traveling >> >> on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a >> residential center, >> >> you >> >> really need to get the most bang for your buck, so >> to speak, and I think >> >> dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are >> able to learn from >> >> the >> >> experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired >> at LCB that I still >> >> use >> >> on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and >> confidently cross the >> >> street >> >> at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a >> few times in travel >> >> class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I >> acquired in crossing >> >> uncontrolled intersections came from needing to >> cross Bonner and >> >> Mississippi >> >> twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my >> off-campus apartment. >> >> Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to >> improve nonvisual >> >> cooking >> >> and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how >> you can really >> >> practice >> >> those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe, >> but that's about it. >> >> Training isn't about just trying something out once >> or twice, but instead >> >> it's about practice and repetition, which is best >> gotten when you are >> >> doing >> >> things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on >> a regular basis and >> >> out >> >> of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in >> and out must really >> >> make >> >> people less motivated to venture out on their >> own--but that's a whole >> >> other >> >> issue. >> >> So if you are struggling between center options, >> I'd urge you to consider >> >> whether the living situation is on or off campus as >> a major factor in >> >> your >> >> decision. >> >> BTW, I think someone might have posted recently >> with questions about LCB, >> >> but I don't recall who it was. If you still have >> questions, you can give >> >> me >> >> a call at >> >> 602-502-2255 >> >> There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience >> and a live? phone >> >> conversation will probably be more helpful than >> email. >> >> Best, >> >> Arielle >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne >> >> t >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:55:25 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <210D4FBCFBDD40659314B91F0A31B6B9 at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Beth, > Oh, I'm glad you can use a braille note to do email. That is a good thing! > That is definitely an awesome notetaker too. Yes, I agree a braille not > cannot do all websites, that is why a computer is needed for that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get > on certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better > than Keyweb. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Beth, > then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined? > If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for > you. > BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy > macs. > Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment. > employers > use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in > microsoft and > windows applications. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is > broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go > in the trash. That's all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Beth, > I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to > want a > Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better > user > experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. > Now... > If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine > could > I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I > didn't > really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable > but is > also not rehab's problem. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth wrote: > > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal > accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want > something with good tech support. The tech support people from > India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the > demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to > be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because > JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all > I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to > be able to use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% > 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:06:06 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Message-ID: <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Tyler, > While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be > supportive. > A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said > pretty > much the same thing as you, without being blunt. > I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 > messages > to read on the rehab thread, > but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a > mac. > I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons, > but > rehab did > not get them one. > > Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a > pc > through them. > At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college a > third time for you. > I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other > means. > > You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment > for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents > should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the > government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get > sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games > including > the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and more. Yet > blind children do not get computers and the software to run them. > Something > is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my > braille > note. So they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and sending > me > to school which is part of rasing a kid. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech >> support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good >> English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is >> not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do >> because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all >> I >> can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to >> use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:11:18 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Josh, > Mike i s staying in ACB btw; he said that on an ACB list. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy > > What? > After he posted on NFB-Talk, saying that he was leaving them? > Wow! > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got >> slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't >> clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you >> just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond >> by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of >> the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it >> works well. >> On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either. >> For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be >> phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would >> still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for >> a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be >> modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade >> games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That >> would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have >> the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy >> wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other >> country's business, never stepping up to help our own people. >> Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree >> with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for >> or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's >> like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't >> want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough >> of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point. >> While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an >> organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded >> individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either >> organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both >> because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas, >> support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for >> so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all >> deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our >> own self-discovery. >> Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to >> stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about >> people without knowing the whole story. >> >> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Josh, >>> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm >>> and really go for it, but I have to. >>> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and >>> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me >>> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam >>> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but >>> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and >>> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of >>> money to make this accessible." >>> >>> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get >>> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back >>> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and >>> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you >>> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your >>> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you. >>> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless >>> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and >>> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not >>> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I >>> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things >>> costing to much a few messages back. >>> >>> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I >>> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid >>> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a >>> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well. >>> >>> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and >>> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay >>> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we >>> can't have something costing money now, can we? >>> >>> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work >>> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip >>> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on >>> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would >>> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them >>> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone >>> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and >>> announces it. >>> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible? >>>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled >>>> currency. >>>> What is your idea of accessible currency? >>>> I'm curious! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general >>>>> session from 8 to 5. >>>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever >>>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure >>>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your >>>>> logic is flawless, my friend. >>>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> Well, did you attend the convention? >>>>>> You should know! >>>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the >>>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages. >>>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it. >>>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's >>>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of >>>>>> the IBill out of business. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>>>>>> Josh, >>>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been >>>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post. >>>>>>>> I just have one question about this. >>>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do >>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act," >>>>>>>> resolution at their convention? >>>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the >>>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage. >>>>>>>> Hmmm! >>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was >>>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things: >>>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other >>>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also >>>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or >>>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it >>>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the >>>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental >>>>>>>>> philosophy >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken >>>>>>>>> differing >>>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily >>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of >>>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have >>>>>>>>> choices >>>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big >>>>>>>>> group >>>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the >>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine >>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB >>>>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual >>>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them >>>>>>>>> down. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become >>>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions >>>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of >>>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for >>>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take >>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those >>>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will >>>>>>>>> fight >>>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to >>>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other >>>>>>>>> words, >>>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design >>>>>>>>> against >>>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual >>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>> toward both of these goals? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tyler: >>>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't >>>>>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that >>>>>>>>>> hesitation >>>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> campus >>>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free >>>>>>>>>> dinner, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some >>>>>>>>>> churches, >>>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that >>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who >>>>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>>>> slightly >>>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we >>>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's >>>>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have >>>>>>>>>> generally >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same core beliefs. >>>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with >>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when >>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>> disagrees >>>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of >>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I >>>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>>> shun >>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Marc Workman: >>>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the >>>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>>> Why >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an >>>>>>>>>> absolutely >>>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>>> barriers. >>>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a >>>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> Quite >>>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> colored >>>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> seek >>>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I >>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>> many, >>>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> before" >>>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've >>>>>>>>>> realized >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who >>>>>>>>>> hears >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack. >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did >>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email: >>>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> dreams >>>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> reach >>>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With >>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The >>>>>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury >>>>>>>>>> Class of 2012 >>>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics >>>>>>>>>> East Carolina University >>>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ?Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it?s the only thing that ever has.? >>>>>>>>>> ?MARGARET >>>>>>>>>> MEAD >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he >>>>> that >>>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:17:09 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > Message-ID: <50370E2A0E8245EDAF1D54F3A1D0C347 at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Peter, > its not that simple; you have to justify it to rehab. I think she should > help herself via the steps I outlined before an advocate. Steps were > getting > it in writing, going to her counselor's supervisor and maybe holding > another > meeting but this time get it recorded. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:34 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello Beth and everyone, > > Appeal! And get the NFB involved as your advocate. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:01 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working > computerfor college > > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:22:17 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Ignasi, > where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school > without > rehab if you can pay for it. > That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family > put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my > college > choices. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm >> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no >> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I >> want >> to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut >> they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in >> order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor >> know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and >> if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. >> Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you >> really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >> in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >> in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key >> and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:25:20 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Julie, > there is debate, but speaking out only can go so far. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julie McGinnity > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity > > Hi all, > > While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the > organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow > and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a > voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be > heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can > influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those > resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple > of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather > close. > > We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of > looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical > mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of > blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to > implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an > issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current > position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in > discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the > way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any > given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work. > There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be > extremely boring and would not make a good organization. > > On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Justin, >> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be. >> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do) >> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating >> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those >> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and >> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's >> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my >> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold >> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and >> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor. >> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National >> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security >> for the blind; to >> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by >> its constitution." >> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to >> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances >> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation >> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement >> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar >> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known >> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the >> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public. >> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on >> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly >> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's >> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could >> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression, >> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with >> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough >> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without >> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I >> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of >> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to >> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my >> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours. >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury wrote: >>> Dear List, >>> >>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met >>> two >>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong >>> opinions >>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. >>> >>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership. >>> >>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing. >>> >>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone >>> from Baltimore told me what to do. >>> >>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but >>> that >>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member >>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority >>> within >>> us. >>> >>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our >>> organization >>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals >>> much >>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let >>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that >>> our >>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might >>> not >>> even have closets in which to sit. >>> >>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain >>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I >>> was >>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some >>> people >>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once >>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable. >>> >>> Justin >>> >>> Justin M. Salisbury >>> Class of 2012 >>> B.A. in Mathematics >>> East Carolina University >>> president at alumni.ecu.edu >>> >>> ?Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >>> change >>> the world; indeed, it?s the only thing that ever has.? ?MARGARET MEAD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind > of Missouri recording secretary, > Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, > and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:28:08 -0300 > From: "Rania Ismail CMT" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > Message-ID: <529CB72704474E4BBEE1E15B5B4E071A at userPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I payed for school the second time I went threw to become a massage > therapist because rehab wouldn't pay for me to go to school a second time. > I am glad I did. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > Ignasi, > where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school > without > > rehab if you can pay for it. > That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family > put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my > college > choices. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm >> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no >> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I >> want > >> to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut >> they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should >> just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in >> order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the >> adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor >> know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and >> if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. >> Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you >> really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >> in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want >> in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a >> Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. >> They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key >> and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:31:41 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Beth, > Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college > you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell > you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due > to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to > people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort > of thing? > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the > loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes > plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn > things > back. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. > But ... > if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then > they pay > for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for > financial reasons. > > Dave > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few > keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do > at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi > stupid > work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know > whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 69, Issue 48 > ************************************** From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 24 16:07:03 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:07:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> <500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com> <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> Ashly, I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be said should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at this point, since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it keep changing, but whatever. As for parents being required to help blind people, they already do. My brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I honestly have no clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless parents are dropping 10+k on a car, justifying "I need a braille note because joe got a car," doesn't quite work. Your braille note costed at least 5 times more than a reliable car did, not to mention your pc. On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should > be supportive. > A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said > pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. > I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 > messages to read on the rehab thread, > but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them > a mac. > I say this to point out that many people like macs for various > reasons, but rehab did > not get them one. > > Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get > a pc through them. > At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for > college a third time for you. > I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other > means. > > You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get > equipment for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to > me parents should buy more equipment for blind children rather than > relying on the government for it! Its part of being a supportive > parent. Parents get sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual > entertainment games including the wii and playstation, computers, > computer accessories, and more. Yet blind children do not get > computers and the software to run them. Something is wrong with this > picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my braille note. So > they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and sending me to > school which is part of rasing a kid. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't >> speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its >> people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if >> I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no >> answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want >> a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 16:22:56 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:22:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com><500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com><784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <66ABC0B4F8684B6CB51AD90CE7B76510@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello Beth, Have you looked at scholarships in the area? As a blind person you can apply for twice or three times as many scholarships as sighted people and if you are in need of significant financial aid, you can get any more. If a Mac cost $1500, you could do: http://www.blindcitizens.org/assistive_tech.htm coupled with $750 in scholarship money from anywhere. Places that have scholarships are your College, Lions Club, NFB, ACB... My local chapter of the ACB for example offers a $1000 grant for technology, that covers something that Rehab won't buy. I'm not sure where sighted folks get scholarships, but I'd really love to know. My rehab doesn't pay for a Masters very often, so I don't want to be left with 100+ grand in student lones... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Ashly, I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be said should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at this point, since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it keep changing, but whatever. As for parents being required to help blind people, they already do. My brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I honestly have no clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless parents are dropping 10+k on a car, justifying "I need a braille note because joe got a car," doesn't quite work. Your braille note costed at least 5 times more than a reliable car did, not to mention your pc. On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be > supportive. > A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said > pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. > I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 > messages to read on the rehab thread, > but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a > mac. > I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons, > but rehab did > not get them one. > > Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a > pc through them. > At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college a > third time for you. > I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other > means. > > You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment > for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents > should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the > government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get > sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games > including the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and > more. Yet blind children do not get computers and the software to run > them. Something is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, > but not my braille note. So they did share some of the cost of buying > equipment and sending me to school which is part of rasing a kid. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak >> good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, >> blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, >> "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for >> me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I >> want to be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 16:27:16 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:27:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com><500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com><784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <000b01cd69b9$3113f470$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I'm no councilor, but I've figured out, that justification is emportant. If Beth wants a Mac so bad, she needs to stop wining, and work toward getting one herself! My father taught me from the time I was born the value of work! That's why I am living in my own home, which I helped my parents build along with my sister! How do you think Gernigan and Maurer got to where theywere? I'm sorry, but enough is enough! You got training from CCB, use it! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > Ashly, > I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be said > should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at this point, > since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it keep changing, but > whatever. > > As for parents being required to help blind people, they already do. My > brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I honestly have no > clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless parents are dropping 10+k on > a car, justifying "I need a braille note because joe got a car," doesn't > quite work. Your braille note costed at least 5 times more than a reliable > car did, not to mention your pc. > On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be >> supportive. >> A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said >> pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. >> I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 >> messages to read on the rehab thread, >> but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a >> mac. >> I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons, >> but rehab did >> not get them one. >> >> Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a >> pc through them. >> At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college >> a third time for you. >> I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other >> means. >> >> You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment >> for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents >> should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the >> government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get >> sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games >> including the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and >> more. Yet blind children do not get computers and the software to run >> them. Something is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, >> but not my braille note. So they did share some of the cost of buying >> equipment and sending me to school which is part of rasing a kid. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac >> >> It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. >> Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover >> question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like >> you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, >> but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good >> tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as >> well. >> >> Basically here's what this comes down to. >> You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said >> you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it >> again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, >> compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and >> holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through >> school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your >> choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. >> On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, all. >>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >>> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >>> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak >>> good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, >>> blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, >>> "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for >>> me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I >>> want to be able to use one so bad. >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 16:42:21 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:42:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com><500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com><784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello, Sorry for the double post. But clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, Toastmaster's, possibly SCA and extra curricular clubs that you're a part of also offer scholarships. If your parents didn't let you participate in any of those, they probably owe you the scholarships those places offer. Because if a parent holds us back and doesn't let us participate in life like our sighted friends, they are not only keeping us from living our life fully, but they are keeping us from a great financial resource later in life! I doubt you're a performer, but there are loads of opportunities in that area as well. Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian Coalition also have scholarships, although I believe most of those are for high school into college people. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Ashly, I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be said should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at this point, since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it keep changing, but whatever. As for parents being required to help blind people, they already do. My brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I honestly have no clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless parents are dropping 10+k on a car, justifying "I need a braille note because joe got a car," doesn't quite work. Your braille note costed at least 5 times more than a reliable car did, not to mention your pc. On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be > supportive. > A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said > pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. > I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 > messages to read on the rehab thread, > but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a > mac. > I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons, > but rehab did > not get them one. > > Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a > pc through them. > At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college a > third time for you. > I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other > means. > > You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment > for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents > should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the > government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get > sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games > including the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and > more. Yet blind children do not get computers and the software to run > them. Something is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, > but not my braille note. So they did share some of the cost of buying > equipment and sending me to school which is part of rasing a kid. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak >> good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, >> blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, >> "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for >> me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I >> want to be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 17:11:53 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:11:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com><500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com><784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi, I was more so thinking of the computer. It seems like many students have rehab buy computers. I'm thinking that parents should buy some equipment such as computers. No, not a notetaker, but other equipment seems reasonable. -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Ashly, I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be said should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at this point, since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it keep changing, but whatever. As for parents being required to help blind people, they already do. My brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I honestly have no clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless parents are dropping 10+k on a car, justifying "I need a braille note because joe got a car," doesn't quite work. Your braille note costed at least 5 times more than a reliable car did, not to mention your pc. On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be > supportive. > A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said > pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. > I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 > messages to read on the rehab thread, > but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a > mac. > I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons, > but rehab did > not get them one. > > Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a > pc through them. > At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college a > third time for you. > I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other > means. > > You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment > for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents > should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the > government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get > sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games > including the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and > more. Yet blind children do not get computers and the software to run > them. Something is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, > but not my braille note. So they did share some of the cost of buying > equipment and sending me to school which is part of rasing a kid. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >> Hi, all. >> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good >> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak >> good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, >> blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, >> "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for >> me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I >> want to be able to use one so bad. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 17:15:13 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:15:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? Message-ID: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in high school. Where can one get scholarships? The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: http://acb.org/node/148 Light House has a rather large scholarship: http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs/ AFB Has scholarships: https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 CCLVI: http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ ABC: http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx Association of Blind Citizens http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm Learning Ally http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook Foundation: http://www.jkcf.org/ and all the other places listed on this page: http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich families have scholarships. clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, Toastmaster's... Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian Coalition also have scholarships. I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly scholarships for the blind... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 24 17:18:55 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:18:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com><500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com><784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <500ED8FF.3000500@tysdomain.com> If they can afford it, I think they do. A computer is kind of normal to give someone going to college. It honestly depends on money though. Everything college wise I pay for myself because the option of the parents throwing in a few thousand isn't there. On 7/24/2012 11:11 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi, > I was more so thinking of the computer. It seems like many students > have rehab buy computers. I'm thinking that parents should buy some > equipment such as computers. No, not a notetaker, but other equipment > seems reasonable. > > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Ashly, > I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be said > should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at this > point, since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it keep > changing, but whatever. > > As for parents being required to help blind people, they already do. My > brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I honestly have > no clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless parents are dropping > 10+k on a car, justifying "I need a braille note because joe got a car," > doesn't quite work. Your braille note costed at least 5 times more than > a reliable car did, not to mention your pc. > On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we >> should be supportive. >> A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said >> pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. >> I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 >> messages to read on the rehab thread, >> but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got >> them a mac. >> I say this to point out that many people like macs for various >> reasons, but rehab did >> not get them one. >> >> Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then >> get a pc through them. >> At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for >> college a third time for you. >> I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other >> means. >> >> You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get >> equipment for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to >> me parents should buy more equipment for blind children rather than >> relying on the government for it! Its part of being a supportive >> parent. Parents get sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual >> entertainment games including the wii and playstation, computers, >> computer accessories, and more. Yet blind children do not get >> computers and the software to run them. Something is wrong with this >> picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my braille note. So >> they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and sending me to >> school which is part of rasing a kid. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac >> >> It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. >> Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover >> question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like >> you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, >> but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good >> tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as >> well. >> >> Basically here's what this comes down to. >> You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said >> you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it >> again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, >> compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and >> holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through >> school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your >> choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. >> On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, all. >>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility >>> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with >>> good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes >>> don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and >>> its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. >>> So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll >>> have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other >>> reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >> >> > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 17:27:03 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:27:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff In-Reply-To: <500b43c2.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37f@mx.google.com> References: <500b43c2.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, if a hard drive fails, you get a new computer. that can happen with macs and pcs. Whatever you do, when you get a pc, have an anti virus program and run it regularly. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:05 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if the hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something without knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up with. I also am really concerned because ... rumor has it that JAWS 14 is coming out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the reasons that we can't afford it and such. I would never want JAWs plus a PC for the simple fact that Rehab has to foot the bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get a PC with my own money, but it has to have a screen reader on it. Third party apps? They drive me nuts! Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 17:28:37 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:28:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences In-Reply-To: <500b4d13.0a52650a.5907.ffff9f5b@mx.google.com> References: <500b4d13.0a52650a.5907.ffff9f5b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00370AD0427043C2881AE93F6E453BD4@OwnerPC> Same here. I'm praying the victims recover. -----Original Message----- From: Roanna Baccchus Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:44 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Please Except My Condolences Hello to everyone in Colorado Our thoughts and prayers go out to those victims who lost loved ones in the terrible shooting. I'm truly sorry for the loss you've suffered and the pain you've endured. My prayers are with the many families who are trying to locate loved ones. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 24 17:46:25 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:46:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff In-Reply-To: References: <500b43c2.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500EDF71.2060007@tysdomain.com> Um, actually you just get a new harddrive. $100 or so as opposed to $900+ for a computer. On 7/24/2012 11:27 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > if a hard drive fails, you get a new computer. that can happen with > macs and pcs. > Whatever you do, when you get a pc, have an anti virus program and run > it regularly. > > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:05 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff > > Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if > the hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something > without knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up > with. I also am really concerned because ... rumor has it that > JAWS 14 is coming out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the > reasons that we can't afford it and such. I would never want > JAWs plus a PC for the simple fact that Rehab has to foot the > bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get a PC with my own money, but > it has to have a screen reader on it. Third party apps? They > drive me nuts! > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 17:49:31 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:49:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Message-ID: <500ee044.e895320a.6e86.78b1@mx.google.com> OH, I don't know. Parents are interesting people. :) My parents bought my last PC, but they probably won't be buying any more if I think about it any longer. They'd rather buy their teenage sons cars, or they'd rather let my brother, who is now 21, or is he 22? I'm going on 26 but that's not the point. My brother gets an expensive trumpet from iIndiana and a car of his own, but yet I don't get a computer when I need it the most. YEs, they bought me two Ddells, but both of them broke. Both of them broke. So now they're stuck with a broken PC wiith a bad hard drive, and my ex roommate tried to fix it. I think it should be their responsibility anyway because they need to support me. They're my parents, they (especially my mom) had me in the first place, so it's their responsibility to provide if I'm not a successful lawyer. And there's no way I'm getting a lwa degree so I can get rich off of people's pains anywagy. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" Here's my story: I failed university in Florida because of a complicated situation dealing with where I was located and my family was trying to have more control over my goals and vocational stuff. I failed again because of lack of tech support. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" I agree, Ashley. My parents should purchase the computer and not complain about it either. It's bad enough that my parents don't want to and they'd rather buy my brother the stupid video games than buy me a stupid Mac. It really goes to show how much favoritism runs in families. Favorites are the sighted, and not the blind. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" Interesting, National Rifle Association What? That's so weird. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <500b43c2.c82f320a.77cb.ffffa37f@mx.google.com> <500EDF71.2060007@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <8E3255FE8AF5430EBCC2ABBE20AD3EEE@OwnerPC> hi, yep good point -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] computer stuff Um, actually you just get a new harddrive. $100 or so as opposed to $900+ for a computer. On 7/24/2012 11:27 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > if a hard drive fails, you get a new computer. that can happen with macs > and pcs. > Whatever you do, when you get a pc, have an anti virus program and run it > regularly. > > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:05 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] computer stuff > > Ok, right. The balloons are probably accessible, but whuaft if > the hard drive fails? I guess I must've downloaded something > without knwing it, but that's not something I can really put up > with. I also am really concerned because ... rumor has it that > JAWS 14 is coming out, and people keep cracking JAWS for all the > reasons that we can't afford it and such. I would never want > JAWs plus a PC for the simple fact that Rehab has to foot the > bill for JAWS, and I'd be able to get a PC with my own money, but > it has to have a screen reader on it. Third party apps? They > drive me nuts! > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Jul 24 18:01:46 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:01:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500ee040.e895320a.6e86.78ad@mx.google.com> References: <500ee040.e895320a.6e86.78ad@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <500EE30A.3080302@tysdomain.com> And bill gates should drop down from the heavens and hand me a few million because I'm blind, and well I deserve it, right? On 7/24/2012 11:49 AM, Beth wrote: > I agree, Ashley. My parents should purchase the computer and not > complain about it either. It's bad enough that my parents don't want > to and they'd rather buy my brother the stupid video games than buy me > a stupid Mac. It really goes to show how much favoritism runs in > families. Favorites are the sighted, and not the blind. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:06:06 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > Tyler, > While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be > supportive. > A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said > pretty > much the same thing as you, without being blunt. > I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 > messages > to read on the rehab thread, > but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a > mac. > I say this to point out that many people like macs for various > reasons, but > rehab did > not get them one. > > Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get > a pc > through them. > At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for > college a > third time for you. > I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other > means. > > You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment > for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents > should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the > government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get > sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games > including > the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and more. Yet > blind children do not get computers and the software to run them. > Something > is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my > braille > note. So they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and > sending me > to school which is part of rasing a kid. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. > Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover > question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like > you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, > but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good > tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as > well. > > Basically here's what this comes down to. > You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said > you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it > again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, > compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and > holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through > school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your > choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. > On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, all. > To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility > integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good > tech > support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good > English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is > not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do > because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I > can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to > use one so bad. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdo > main.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; > he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 18:50:54 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:50:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? In-Reply-To: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Brandon: You ask a very important question. I divided my senior year into halves. I spent the fall applying for schools and the spring applying for scholarships. This isn't always the best way, but that's what I ended up doing. There are a plethora of resources regarding scholarships. I would first look at the schools in which you are applying. Your application for admission will put you into some scholarship pools if basic criteria like GPA or SAT score are met. But some universities have more competitive scholarship programs that have separate applications. Even if you are already a student, many entities on campus have awards. For example, if you have been volunteering with the counseling clinic on campus, they might have a scholarship program. I know the psychology department at my school did a scholarship, and so did our chapter of Psi Chi. Sometimes these awards are smaller, but anything helps, and within university recognition will always help you if you want to apply for other accolades like doing an honors project or working in a research lab. You missed a couple of blindness-related scholarships. I know the Jewish Guild for the Blind gives out a nice award each year which is pretty competitive. Also, several Lions clubs have scholarship programs. Many Lions clubs accept applications from sighted students as well because of the lack of competition among blind students in a local area. www.fastweb.net is a potential resource. I personally thought it an absolute mess, but it would be worth your time setting up a profile. It is a giant database of scholarships, and you can enter in all of your information, and it will pull up scholarships that you are supposedly eligible for. Supposedly is an important word though. You need to triple check. You will see lots of giant scholarship programs for corporate companies like Coke and Wal-Mart. Go ahead and fill them out. The applications take about 5 minutes. But the way I see it is that if that is all the effort you have to put into the application, the winner is basically drawn. It wouldn't hurt to dedicate a small fraction of your time to those applications though just to test your luck. But you have to be careful. Any application asking for sensitive information should be carefully scrutinized. You should never provide your social security number or credit card number. Yeah, some scholarships are definitely gimmicks to get your money. Why anyone would pay money to win a scholarship, I don’t know. So the moral of the story is that fastweb can be good, but as you will see in the following paragraph, local is better. If you are applying for scholarships based on financial need, you might have to provide your ssn. But, I would talk to a resource in person such as the examples I am about to give, because they will know the legit financial need based scholarships. Every school has some type of scholarship office. If you are in high school, it will be in the guidance counselor's office. If you are in college, then there will probably be an entire office dedicated to it or somehow connected to financial aid. These offices are the best in my opinion, because they have information about local scholarships. Local scholarships are better, because they might present less competition. If a scholarship requires that you attend a school in NC, or whatever state you're from, or if it even requires that you went to a certain high school, or to school in a certain city, you could be narrowing your competition. However, the bigger advantage is that your local involvement will mean more to the scholarship committee. There will likely be members with kids who do the same volunteering, or members that still volunteer with the organizations in which you are involved. I received 4 scholarships my freshman year of college, and 3 of them were local scholarships given to me at the awards ceremony my senior year. Look for state-wide applications as well. Some pan disability organizations offer scholarships. One of mine came from a family in NC who had a son with a disability who unfortunately passed away. So the family set up a scholarship for anyone with a disability. The possibilities are endless, and as you can see, scholarship finding and applying can become a full-time job. So I would encourage you to concentrate on scholarships that are really looking for the strengths that you have or scholarships in which you fit more than the average criteria. Blindness-related scholarships are a great resource, but I would encourage you to get out of that mold. I personally enjoyed the 2 scholarships I had with interviews, because it gave me a second chance to prove myself, and many locally based scholarships conduct interviews with their top candidates. Cindy On 7/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in high > school. > Where can one get scholarships? > The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: > http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program > ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: > http://acb.org/node/148 > Light House has a rather large scholarship: > http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs/ > AFB Has scholarships: > https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 > CCLVI: > http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ > ABC: > http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx > Association of Blind Citizens > http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm > Learning Ally > http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ > > Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get > scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook Foundation: > http://www.jkcf.org/ > and all the other places listed on this page: > http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm > Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich families > have scholarships. > clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, > Toastmaster's... > Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian > Coalition also have scholarships. > > I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? > Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly scholarships > for the blind... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 19:22:30 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:22:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college > you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell > you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due > to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to > people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort > of thing? > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the > loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes > plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn > things > back. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. > But ... > if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then > they pay > for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for > financial reasons. > > Dave > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few > keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do > at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi > stupid > work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know > whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 19:32:52 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:32:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? In-Reply-To: References: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <502131C929344B90BAD4FB24B07C98A2@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Here's the Jewish guild scholarship website: http://www.jgb.org/guildscholar.asp?GS=TRue They are one of the largest scholarships I've seen. Just for reference, $1000 is average, $10000 is exceptional. $500 is pretty good. Jewish Guild is $10000-15000 and they are for high school students. Also attached is a document that talks about scholarships for the blind. There were some I've never heard of, but that I'm totally going to apply for! Also about the Lions Club, if you Google Lions club and your area, you should get a list of clubs in your area. I've never applied for lions club scholarships, but I plan on doing that this next year. I'm guessing that you call them in the fall and or send them emails and say that you want to know if they offer any scholarships to ambitious young college students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? Brandon: You ask a very important question. I divided my senior year into halves. I spent the fall applying for schools and the spring applying for scholarships. This isn't always the best way, but that's what I ended up doing. There are a plethora of resources regarding scholarships. I would first look at the schools in which you are applying. Your application for admission will put you into some scholarship pools if basic criteria like GPA or SAT score are met. But some universities have more competitive scholarship programs that have separate applications. Even if you are already a student, many entities on campus have awards. For example, if you have been volunteering with the counseling clinic on campus, they might have a scholarship program. I know the psychology department at my school did a scholarship, and so did our chapter of Psi Chi. Sometimes these awards are smaller, but anything helps, and within university recognition will always help you if you want to apply for other accolades like doing an honors project or working in a research lab. You missed a couple of blindness-related scholarships. I know the Jewish Guild for the Blind gives out a nice award each year which is pretty competitive. Also, several Lions clubs have scholarship programs. Many Lions clubs accept applications from sighted students as well because of the lack of competition among blind students in a local area. www.fastweb.net is a potential resource. I personally thought it an absolute mess, but it would be worth your time setting up a profile. It is a giant database of scholarships, and you can enter in all of your information, and it will pull up scholarships that you are supposedly eligible for. Supposedly is an important word though. You need to triple check. You will see lots of giant scholarship programs for corporate companies like Coke and Wal-Mart. Go ahead and fill them out. The applications take about 5 minutes. But the way I see it is that if that is all the effort you have to put into the application, the winner is basically drawn. It wouldn't hurt to dedicate a small fraction of your time to those applications though just to test your luck. But you have to be careful. Any application asking for sensitive information should be carefully scrutinized. You should never provide your social security number or credit card number. Yeah, some scholarships are definitely gimmicks to get your money. Why anyone would pay money to win a scholarship, I don’t know. So the moral of the story is that fastweb can be good, but as you will see in the following paragraph, local is better. If you are applying for scholarships based on financial need, you might have to provide your ssn. But, I would talk to a resource in person such as the examples I am about to give, because they will know the legit financial need based scholarships. Every school has some type of scholarship office. If you are in high school, it will be in the guidance counselor's office. If you are in college, then there will probably be an entire office dedicated to it or somehow connected to financial aid. These offices are the best in my opinion, because they have information about local scholarships. Local scholarships are better, because they might present less competition. If a scholarship requires that you attend a school in NC, or whatever state you're from, or if it even requires that you went to a certain high school, or to school in a certain city, you could be narrowing your competition. However, the bigger advantage is that your local involvement will mean more to the scholarship committee. There will likely be members with kids who do the same volunteering, or members that still volunteer with the organizations in which you are involved. I received 4 scholarships my freshman year of college, and 3 of them were local scholarships given to me at the awards ceremony my senior year. Look for state-wide applications as well. Some pan disability organizations offer scholarships. One of mine came from a family in NC who had a son with a disability who unfortunately passed away. So the family set up a scholarship for anyone with a disability. The possibilities are endless, and as you can see, scholarship finding and applying can become a full-time job. So I would encourage you to concentrate on scholarships that are really looking for the strengths that you have or scholarships in which you fit more than the average criteria. Blindness-related scholarships are a great resource, but I would encourage you to get out of that mold. I personally enjoyed the 2 scholarships I had with interviews, because it gave me a second chance to prove myself, and many locally based scholarships conduct interviews with their top candidates. Cindy On 7/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in high > school. > Where can one get scholarships? > The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: > http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program > ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: > http://acb.org/node/148 > Light House has a rather large scholarship: > http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs/ > AFB Has scholarships: > https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 > CCLVI: > http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ > ABC: > http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx > Association of Blind Citizens > http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm > Learning Ally > http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ > > Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get > scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook Foundation: > http://www.jkcf.org/ > and all the other places listed on this page: > http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm > Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich families > have scholarships. > clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, > Toastmaster's... > Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian > Coalition also have scholarships. > > I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? > Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly scholarships > for the blind... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ScholarshipComparisonChart.doc Type: application/msword Size: 315392 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 19:38:03 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:38:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0CA68BCF512042F7945E0272E18C7ABB@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, 12 units is really not that difficult. 19 is. I usually take anywhere between 14-19 units in a quarter, hovering on the lower end. The college instructors are not restricted by the state to do all these dumb requirements, not as much as high school teachers. The students often want to be there and they fail if they don't. As you get to the upper level college classes, life becomes much more simple and college is so much easier as a blind student than it is for sighted students. BTW having double time on tests is heaven! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college Hi all, Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college > you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell > you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do > togetaworkingcomputerfor college > > I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due > to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to > people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort > of thing? > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to > getaworkingcomputerfor college > > Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: > Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the > loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes > plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn > things > back. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get > aworkingcomputerfor college > > The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. > But ... > if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then > they pay > for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for > financial reasons. > > Dave > > > On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry > if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about > what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you > apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > > Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac > because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few > keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do > at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi > stupid > work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know > whether it should be pointed out or avenged. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > workingcomputerfor college > > Hello, > If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you > should just > go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and > this in order > to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by > a > professional blind technology person and it's your right to get > that > assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with > the adaptive > technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the > supervisor know > that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in > college and if > they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a > computer. Because > you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology > failure, you really > need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best > support in > the world. > http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ > This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience > you want in > college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to > have a Mac. > First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best > for you. They > will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un > moving > and firm > that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can > have, even > though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence > is > the key and > independence is the way. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a > working > computerfor college > > Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything > but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac > because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they > don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party > apps > fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational > assessment > and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to > work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group > and > counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I > didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be > the > top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and > their > plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work > adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before > the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > people > go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? > Thanks, > Beth > > > -- > Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 19:39:57 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:39:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500ee044.e895320a.6e86.78b1@mx.google.com> References: <500ee044.e895320a.6e86.78b1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8D738FA2291A4F7FB429C55FD36FB54B@OwnerPC> Beth, I agree. If parents buy cars and miscellenous stuff for other children, then they should buy a computer for a blind child. I don't like how they shove all purchases on rehab just since a kid is blind. Its like they feel its not their responsibility since the agency will take care of it. not right. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac OH, I don't know. Parents are interesting people. :) My parents bought my last PC, but they probably won't be buying any more if I think about it any longer. They'd rather buy their teenage sons cars, or they'd rather let my brother, who is now 21, or is he 22? I'm going on 26 but that's not the point. My brother gets an expensive trumpet from iIndiana and a car of his own, but yet I don't get a computer when I need it the most. YEs, they bought me two Ddells, but both of them broke. Both of them broke. So now they're stuck with a broken PC wiith a bad hard drive, and my ex roommate tried to fix it. I think it should be their responsibility anyway because they need to support me. They're my parents, they (especially my mom) had me in the first place, so it's their responsibility to provide if I'm not a successful lawyer. And there's no way I'm getting a lwa degree so I can get rich off of people's pains anywagy. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to get a real degree! I wasn't going to have that! I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for VR. I'm getting that degree, next May! Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! Good grief! That's Rehab for you! Blessings, Joshua On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you > don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's > easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, > so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being > privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want > to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds > gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a > specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. > They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party > their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is > that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school > kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have > immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in > college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and > stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand > old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No > parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody > saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from > sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they > didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we > live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. > One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't > know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were > treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed > to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed > them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. > I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. > As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I > actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, > the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google > indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I > know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education > that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for > college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth > of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't > want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Beth, >> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >> of thing? >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >> things >> back. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >> But ... >> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >> they pay >> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >> financial reasons. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >> stupid >> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 19:59:11 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:59:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? In-Reply-To: <502131C929344B90BAD4FB24B07C98A2@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> <502131C929344B90BAD4FB24B07C98A2@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <005d01cd69d6$cc416cd0$64c44670$@gmail.com> Hello, The lions club in my area does not offer any scholarships. I've asked them, and they said that they didn't offer any. They just give out special equipment for low vision offered through their low vision clinic and, if you request and get them to, they'll be willing to give other equipment. By the way, thank you for all these scholarship searches. I will consider these that you've sent out, and to you, Cynthia, thanks for yours also. I have also some suggestions. If you ever feel like you have a great sense of luck, there are a bunch of context-like and drawing-like scholarships, also called "sweepstakes", that you can apply for. Providers such as: 1. Fastweb, http://www.fastweb.com/ 2. College Prowler, http://www.collegeProwler.com/ 3. Cappex, http://www.cappex.com/ 4. MulahSpot, http://www.MulahSpot.com And many others, one word of wisdom though. Don't rely on these as much as you would rely on, for example, the blindness ones. However, it doesn't hurt to apply for some or all of these; who knows if you are the winner, and then what? You go to college without Rehabilitation agencies paying for you! (Smile). You can also setup a profile on many websites that also attempt to give you with scholarship search results for you. Web sites such as: 1. www.collegeanswer.com/ 2. www.fastWeb.com/ 3. www.scholarshipDetective.com/ 4. www.scholarships.com/ If you live in Washington State, there is a free web-based tool that you can setup a profile with, it is http://www.theWashBoard.org. Have a nice day and happy scholarship hunting! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? Hello, Here's the Jewish guild scholarship website: http://www.jgb.org/guildscholar.asp?GS=TRue They are one of the largest scholarships I've seen. Just for reference, $1000 is average, $10000 is exceptional. $500 is pretty good. Jewish Guild is $10000-15000 and they are for high school students. Also attached is a document that talks about scholarships for the blind. There were some I've never heard of, but that I'm totally going to apply for! Also about the Lions Club, if you Google Lions club and your area, you should get a list of clubs in your area. I've never applied for lions club scholarships, but I plan on doing that this next year. I'm guessing that you call them in the fall and or send them emails and say that you want to know if they offer any scholarships to ambitious young college students. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? Brandon: You ask a very important question. I divided my senior year into halves. I spent the fall applying for schools and the spring applying for scholarships. This isn't always the best way, but that's what I ended up doing. There are a plethora of resources regarding scholarships. I would first look at the schools in which you are applying. Your application for admission will put you into some scholarship pools if basic criteria like GPA or SAT score are met. But some universities have more competitive scholarship programs that have separate applications. Even if you are already a student, many entities on campus have awards. For example, if you have been volunteering with the counseling clinic on campus, they might have a scholarship program. I know the psychology department at my school did a scholarship, and so did our chapter of Psi Chi. Sometimes these awards are smaller, but anything helps, and within university recognition will always help you if you want to apply for other accolades like doing an honors project or working in a research lab. You missed a couple of blindness-related scholarships. I know the Jewish Guild for the Blind gives out a nice award each year which is pretty competitive. Also, several Lions clubs have scholarship programs. Many Lions clubs accept applications from sighted students as well because of the lack of competition among blind students in a local area. www.fastweb.net is a potential resource. I personally thought it an absolute mess, but it would be worth your time setting up a profile. It is a giant database of scholarships, and you can enter in all of your information, and it will pull up scholarships that you are supposedly eligible for. Supposedly is an important word though. You need to triple check. You will see lots of giant scholarship programs for corporate companies like Coke and Wal-Mart. Go ahead and fill them out. The applications take about 5 minutes. But the way I see it is that if that is all the effort you have to put into the application, the winner is basically drawn. It wouldn't hurt to dedicate a small fraction of your time to those applications though just to test your luck. But you have to be careful. Any application asking for sensitive information should be carefully scrutinized. You should never provide your social security number or credit card number. Yeah, some scholarships are definitely gimmicks to get your money. Why anyone would pay money to win a scholarship, I don't know. So the moral of the story is that fastweb can be good, but as you will see in the following paragraph, local is better. If you are applying for scholarships based on financial need, you might have to provide your ssn. But, I would talk to a resource in person such as the examples I am about to give, because they will know the legit financial need based scholarships. Every school has some type of scholarship office. If you are in high school, it will be in the guidance counselor's office. If you are in college, then there will probably be an entire office dedicated to it or somehow connected to financial aid. These offices are the best in my opinion, because they have information about local scholarships. Local scholarships are better, because they might present less competition. If a scholarship requires that you attend a school in NC, or whatever state you're from, or if it even requires that you went to a certain high school, or to school in a certain city, you could be narrowing your competition. However, the bigger advantage is that your local involvement will mean more to the scholarship committee. There will likely be members with kids who do the same volunteering, or members that still volunteer with the organizations in which you are involved. I received 4 scholarships my freshman year of college, and 3 of them were local scholarships given to me at the awards ceremony my senior year. Look for state-wide applications as well. Some pan disability organizations offer scholarships. One of mine came from a family in NC who had a son with a disability who unfortunately passed away. So the family set up a scholarship for anyone with a disability. The possibilities are endless, and as you can see, scholarship finding and applying can become a full-time job. So I would encourage you to concentrate on scholarships that are really looking for the strengths that you have or scholarships in which you fit more than the average criteria. Blindness-related scholarships are a great resource, but I would encourage you to get out of that mold. I personally enjoyed the 2 scholarships I had with interviews, because it gave me a second chance to prove myself, and many locally based scholarships conduct interviews with their top candidates. Cindy On 7/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in high > school. > Where can one get scholarships? > The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: > http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program > ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: > http://acb.org/node/148 > Light House has a rather large scholarship: > http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs / > AFB Has scholarships: > https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 > CCLVI: > http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ > ABC: > http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx > Association of Blind Citizens > http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm > Learning Ally > http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ > > Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get > scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook Foundation: > http://www.jkcf.org/ > and all the other places listed on this page: > http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm > Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich families > have scholarships. > clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, > Toastmaster's... > Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian > Coalition also have scholarships. > > I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? > Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly scholarships > for the blind... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Tue Jul 24 20:02:58 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:02:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers In-Reply-To: <008301cd6908$c1eaae50$45c00af0$@gmail.com> References: <008301cd6908$c1eaae50$45c00af0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BC5@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Please, contact me off list as well. Maybe you can make some money! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:24 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; gui-talk at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers Please see below: -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise M Robinson Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:21 PM To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List; NFB Science and Engineering Division List Subject: [nfbcs] script writers If you consider yourself a great script writer and have written scripts for Jaws successfully, please contact me off list. -- *Denise* Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. CEO, TechVision, LLC Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision 509-674-1853 Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." --Chinese Proverb Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond imagination. --Albert Einstein It's kind of fun to do the impossible. --Walt Disney _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2% 40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 20:14:32 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:14:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? In-Reply-To: <005d01cd69d6$cc416cd0$64c44670$@gmail.com> References: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> <502131C929344B90BAD4FB24B07C98A2@BrandonsLaptop2> <005d01cd69d6$cc416cd0$64c44670$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry. I got the fastweb URL wrong. But those are other great resources. I'm sure that many states have college websites that help you find colleges, apply, and find scholarships. NC's is www.cfnc.org. So search for something like that. But a meeting with your guidance counselor is definitely a good idea. They will have that kind of information for you. My school had the Lion's club application on hand since it was for all students, but if yours doesn't, it wouldn't hurt calling a member of the club and asking. Cindy On 7/24/12, Humberto Avila wrote: > Hello, > > The lions club in my area does not offer any scholarships. I've asked them, > and they said that they didn't offer any. They just give out special > equipment for low vision offered through their low vision clinic and, if > you > request and get them to, they'll be willing to give other equipment. > > By the way, thank you for all these scholarship searches. I will consider > these that you've sent out, and to you, Cynthia, thanks for yours also. I > have also some suggestions. If you ever feel like you have a great sense of > luck, there are a bunch of context-like and drawing-like scholarships, also > called "sweepstakes", that you can apply for. Providers such as: > 1. Fastweb, http://www.fastweb.com/ > 2. College Prowler, http://www.collegeProwler.com/ > 3. Cappex, http://www.cappex.com/ > 4. MulahSpot, http://www.MulahSpot.com > > And many others, one word of wisdom though. Don't rely on these as much as > you would rely on, for example, the blindness ones. However, it doesn't > hurt > to apply for some or all of these; who knows if you are the winner, and > then > what? You go to college without Rehabilitation agencies paying for you! > (Smile). > > You can also setup a profile on many websites that also attempt to give you > with scholarship search results for you. Web sites such as: > 1. www.collegeanswer.com/ > 2. www.fastWeb.com/ > 3. www.scholarshipDetective.com/ > 4. www.scholarships.com/ > If you live in Washington State, there is a free web-based tool that you > can > setup a profile with, it is http://www.theWashBoard.org. > > Have a nice day and happy scholarship hunting! > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? > > Hello, > Here's the Jewish guild scholarship website: > http://www.jgb.org/guildscholar.asp?GS=TRue > They are one of the largest scholarships I've seen. > Just for reference, $1000 is average, $10000 is exceptional. $500 is pretty > > good. > Jewish Guild is $10000-15000 and they are for high school students. > Also attached is a document that talks about scholarships for the blind. > There were some I've never heard of, but that I'm totally going to apply > for! > > Also about the Lions Club, if you Google Lions club and your area, you > should get a list of clubs in your area. I've never applied for lions club > scholarships, but I plan on doing that this next year. I'm guessing that > you > > call them in the fall and or send them emails and say that you want to know > > if they offer any scholarships to ambitious young college students. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Cynthia Bennett > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:50 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? > > Brandon: > > You ask a very important question. I divided my senior year into > halves. I spent the fall applying for schools and the spring applying > for scholarships. This isn't always the best way, but that's what I > ended up doing. There are a plethora of resources regarding > scholarships. I would first look at the schools in which you are > applying. Your application for admission will put you into some > scholarship pools if basic criteria like GPA or SAT score are met. But > some universities have more competitive scholarship programs that have > separate applications. Even if you are already a student, many > entities on campus have awards. For example, if you have been > volunteering with the counseling clinic on campus, they might have a > scholarship program. I know the psychology department at my school did > a scholarship, and so did our chapter of Psi Chi. Sometimes these > awards are smaller, but anything helps, and within university > recognition will always help you if you want to apply for other > accolades like doing an honors project or working in a research lab. > > You missed a couple of blindness-related scholarships. I know the > Jewish Guild for the Blind gives out a nice award each year which is > pretty competitive. Also, several Lions clubs have scholarship > programs. Many Lions clubs accept applications from sighted students > as well because of the lack of competition among blind students in a > local area. > > www.fastweb.net is a potential resource. I personally thought it an > absolute mess, but it would be worth your time setting up a profile. > It is a giant database of scholarships, and you can enter in all of > your information, and it will pull up scholarships that you are > supposedly eligible for. Supposedly is an important word though. You > need to triple check. You will see lots of giant scholarship programs > for corporate companies like Coke and Wal-Mart. Go ahead and fill them > out. The applications take about 5 minutes. But the way I see it is > that if that is all the effort you have to put into the application, > the winner is basically drawn. It wouldn't hurt to dedicate a small > fraction of your time to those applications though just to test your > luck. But you have to be careful. Any application asking for sensitive > information should be carefully scrutinized. You should never provide > your social security number or credit card number. Yeah, some > scholarships are definitely gimmicks to get your money. Why anyone > would pay money to win a scholarship, I don't know. So the moral of > the story is that fastweb can be good, but as you will see in the > following paragraph, local is better. If you are applying for > scholarships based on financial need, you might have to provide your > ssn. But, I would talk to a resource in person such as the examples I > am about to give, because they will know the legit financial need > based scholarships. > > Every school has some type of scholarship office. If you are in high > school, it will be in the guidance counselor's office. If you are in > college, then there will probably be an entire office dedicated to it > or somehow connected to financial aid. These offices are the best in > my opinion, because they have information about local scholarships. > Local scholarships are better, because they might present less > competition. If a scholarship requires that you attend a school in NC, > or whatever state you're from, or if it even requires that you went to > a certain high school, or to school in a certain city, you could be > narrowing your competition. However, the bigger advantage is that your > local involvement will mean more to the scholarship committee. There > will likely be members with kids who do the same volunteering, or > members that still volunteer with the organizations in which you are > involved. I received 4 scholarships my freshman year of college, and 3 > of them were local scholarships given to me at the awards ceremony my > senior year. Look for state-wide applications as well. Some pan > disability organizations offer scholarships. One of mine came from a > family in NC who had a son with a disability who unfortunately passed > away. So the family set up a scholarship for anyone with a disability. > > The possibilities are endless, and as you can see, scholarship finding > and applying can become a full-time job. So I would encourage you to > concentrate on scholarships that are really looking for the strengths > that you have or scholarships in which you fit more than the average > criteria. Blindness-related scholarships are a great resource, but I > would encourage you to get out of that mold. I personally enjoyed the > 2 scholarships I had with interviews, because it gave me a second > chance to prove myself, and many locally based scholarships conduct > interviews with their top candidates. > > Cindy > > > On 7/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in >> high >> school. >> Where can one get scholarships? >> The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: >> http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program >> ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: >> http://acb.org/node/148 >> Light House has a rather large scholarship: >> > http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs > / >> AFB Has scholarships: >> https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 >> CCLVI: >> http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ >> ABC: >> http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx >> Association of Blind Citizens >> http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm >> Learning Ally >> http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ >> >> Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get >> scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook Foundation: >> http://www.jkcf.org/ >> and all the other places listed on this page: >> http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm >> Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich families >> have scholarships. >> clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, >> Toastmaster's... >> Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian >> Coalition also have scholarships. >> >> I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? >> Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly >> scholarships >> for the blind... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 20:20:03 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:20:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, Did you take an entrance exam? Because mostly they only ask you to take the lower level classes if you don't pass the entrance exams. Even as a transfer my first week of college is going to be chock full of exams to see where I'll place. I'm prepping for them as we speak... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to get a real degree! I wasn't going to have that! I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for VR. I'm getting that degree, next May! Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! Good grief! That's Rehab for you! Blessings, Joshua On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you > don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's > easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, > so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being > privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want > to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds > gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a > specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. > They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party > their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is > that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school > kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have > immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in > college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and > stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand > old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No > parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody > saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from > sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they > didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we > live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. > One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't > know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were > treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed > to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed > them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. > I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. > As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I > actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, > the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google > indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I > know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education > that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for > college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth > of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't > want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Beth, >> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >> of thing? >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >> things >> back. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >> But ... >> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >> they pay >> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >> financial reasons. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >> stupid >> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 20:28:30 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:28:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Message-ID: <500f0587.25d1320a.5661.ffff86b6@mx.google.com> I already have an AA degree. I didn't take the so-called Klast exam. I was almost ready to take the math portion of that exam, but still. I'm not sure. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi all, Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: Beth, Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort of thing? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things back. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews References: <500f0587.25d1320a.5661.ffff86b6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <49FDC6B16E004EC99B47A031C46B27C6@OwnerPC> Actually that isn't true. The entrance exams are usually for seeing if you place in remedial classes. Otherwise, everyone is put in to freshman english, a general science class, etc. You can place out of some 100 level classes; so maybe that is what Brandon is refering to. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege I already have an AA degree. I didn't take the so-called Klast exam. I was almost ready to take the math portion of that exam, but still. I'm not sure. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi all, Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: Beth, Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort of thing? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things back. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews References: <500f0587.25d1320a.5661.ffff86b6@mx.google.com> <49FDC6B16E004EC99B47A031C46B27C6@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3C038148207748539A64E09807941B5F@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, That's what the problem was. Everyone I believe takes the entrance exams and you can request if they don't have you take them and just place you in the lower classes. For majors like Music or theatre Entrance exams are required. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Actually that isn't true. The entrance exams are usually for seeing if you place in remedial classes. Otherwise, everyone is put in to freshman english, a general science class, etc. You can place out of some 100 level classes; so maybe that is what Brandon is refering to. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege I already have an AA degree. I didn't take the so-called Klast exam. I was almost ready to take the math portion of that exam, but still. I'm not sure. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi all, Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: Beth, Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort of thing? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn things back. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews References: <500ee044.e895320a.6e86.78b1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, My intend is to not sound critical. I understand that you'd ideally like your parents to chip in and help you, but just because they are your parents as an adult they are not entitled after the age of 18 to support you. There may be more to your story, which I'm not expecting you to share. :) I've had many of these same gripes between my siblings, but if your parents aren't a resource the next option is to find something more reliable. If rehab is not willing to help you with a computer could your Lions club offer some assistance? When are you wanting to return to college? Could you save up some money each month? Keep your head up. There are ways to overcome many of your challenges. In the end you will feel stronger for finding ways around your barriers. Just my thoughts, Anjelina -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac OH, I don't know. Parents are interesting people. :) My parents bought my last PC, but they probably won't be buying any more if I think about it any longer. They'd rather buy their teenage sons cars, or they'd rather let my brother, who is now 21, or is he 22? I'm going on 26 but that's not the point. My brother gets an expensive trumpet from iIndiana and a car of his own, but yet I don't get a computer when I need it the most. YEs, they bought me two Ddells, but both of them broke. Both of them broke. So now they're stuck with a broken PC wiith a bad hard drive, and my ex roommate tried to fix it. I think it should be their responsibility anyway because they need to support me. They're my parents, they (especially my mom) had me in the first place, so it's their responsibility to provide if I'm not a successful lawyer. And there's no way I'm getting a lwa degree so I can get rich off of people's pains anywagy. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: <008301cd6908$c1eaae50$45c00af0$@gmail.com> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BC5@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <005e01cd69eb$033bbc90$09b335b0$@gmail.com> Zumaira, are you a script writer? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wasif, Zunaira Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers Please, contact me off list as well. Maybe you can make some money! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:24 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; gui-talk at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers Please see below: -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise M Robinson Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:21 PM To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List; NFB Science and Engineering Division List Subject: [nfbcs] script writers If you consider yourself a great script writer and have written scripts for Jaws successfully, please contact me off list. -- *Denise* Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. CEO, TechVision, LLC Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision 509-674-1853 Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." --Chinese Proverb Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond imagination. --Albert Einstein It's kind of fun to do the impossible. --Walt Disney _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2% 40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 22:26:37 2012 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:26:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? In-Reply-To: References: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> <502131C929344B90BAD4FB24B07C98A2@BrandonsLaptop2> <005d01cd69d6$cc416cd0$64c44670$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello all, There are many resources when graduating high school. My high school actually had an award ceremony. Basically, if you were a great student, very active, good grades etc., the guidance counselors would submit your name to various organizations around our township that gave out small awards to graduating students. It was actually a really, really nice thing, I got about four of those, that added up to $7,000. One of them was from the Rotary club, you can apply to your local branch. If you win that award, they are actually refreshable. So, you can submit your name each year and depending on your college GPA you can get another chunk of money from them. Along with that thought, the ELMS Club, Lions,, Knights of Columbus, and maybe even the Moose Lodge might have specific local awards. Sometimes the local Fire Fighters will have a small award for graduating high school students. And of course,, as you go on in college you will be eligible to other awards. Be aware that some scholarships, like the NFB and other private institutions will send you a personl check. Others will send the check directly to your school's financial AID office. Depending on what kind of financial aid you have, you might then get a refund check. In college I lived for refund checks!Like Cindy said, definitely check to see if your college has a national scholarships and awards offices. Often these are highly competitive, but many colleges have internal awards that you can apply for. If you would like to apply for Roads, Marshal, Soros, Fulbright, Truman, and other nationally competitive scholarships, colleges often have an internal application process, and will then refer the applications they find the most qualified on to those scholarship committees. Keep that GPA nice and high and apply, apply, apply, you never know what you might win. After all, someone has to win them ,right? Mary On 7/24/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > I'm sorry. I got the fastweb URL wrong. But those are other great > resources. I'm sure that many states have college websites that help > you find colleges, apply, and find scholarships. NC's is www.cfnc.org. > So search for something like that. But a meeting with your guidance > counselor is definitely a good idea. They will have that kind of > information for you. My school had the Lion's club application on hand > since it was for all students, but if yours doesn't, it wouldn't hurt > calling a member of the club and asking. > > Cindy > > On 7/24/12, Humberto Avila wrote: >> Hello, >> >> The lions club in my area does not offer any scholarships. I've asked >> them, >> and they said that they didn't offer any. They just give out special >> equipment for low vision offered through their low vision clinic and, if >> you >> request and get them to, they'll be willing to give other equipment. >> >> By the way, thank you for all these scholarship searches. I will consider >> these that you've sent out, and to you, Cynthia, thanks for yours also. >> I >> have also some suggestions. If you ever feel like you have a great sense >> of >> luck, there are a bunch of context-like and drawing-like scholarships, >> also >> called "sweepstakes", that you can apply for. Providers such as: >> 1. Fastweb, http://www.fastweb.com/ >> 2. College Prowler, http://www.collegeProwler.com/ >> 3. Cappex, http://www.cappex.com/ >> 4. MulahSpot, http://www.MulahSpot.com >> >> And many others, one word of wisdom though. Don't rely on these as much >> as >> you would rely on, for example, the blindness ones. However, it doesn't >> hurt >> to apply for some or all of these; who knows if you are the winner, and >> then >> what? You go to college without Rehabilitation agencies paying for you! >> (Smile). >> >> You can also setup a profile on many websites that also attempt to give >> you >> with scholarship search results for you. Web sites such as: >> 1. www.collegeanswer.com/ >> 2. www.fastWeb.com/ >> 3. www.scholarshipDetective.com/ >> 4. www.scholarships.com/ >> If you live in Washington State, there is a free web-based tool that you >> can >> setup a profile with, it is http://www.theWashBoard.org. >> >> Have a nice day and happy scholarship hunting! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? >> >> Hello, >> Here's the Jewish guild scholarship website: >> http://www.jgb.org/guildscholar.asp?GS=TRue >> They are one of the largest scholarships I've seen. >> Just for reference, $1000 is average, $10000 is exceptional. $500 is >> pretty >> >> good. >> Jewish Guild is $10000-15000 and they are for high school students. >> Also attached is a document that talks about scholarships for the blind. >> There were some I've never heard of, but that I'm totally going to apply >> for! >> >> Also about the Lions Club, if you Google Lions club and your area, you >> should get a list of clubs in your area. I've never applied for lions >> club >> scholarships, but I plan on doing that this next year. I'm guessing that >> you >> >> call them in the fall and or send them emails and say that you want to >> know >> >> if they offer any scholarships to ambitious young college students. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cynthia Bennett >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:50 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? >> >> Brandon: >> >> You ask a very important question. I divided my senior year into >> halves. I spent the fall applying for schools and the spring applying >> for scholarships. This isn't always the best way, but that's what I >> ended up doing. There are a plethora of resources regarding >> scholarships. I would first look at the schools in which you are >> applying. Your application for admission will put you into some >> scholarship pools if basic criteria like GPA or SAT score are met. But >> some universities have more competitive scholarship programs that have >> separate applications. Even if you are already a student, many >> entities on campus have awards. For example, if you have been >> volunteering with the counseling clinic on campus, they might have a >> scholarship program. I know the psychology department at my school did >> a scholarship, and so did our chapter of Psi Chi. Sometimes these >> awards are smaller, but anything helps, and within university >> recognition will always help you if you want to apply for other >> accolades like doing an honors project or working in a research lab. >> >> You missed a couple of blindness-related scholarships. I know the >> Jewish Guild for the Blind gives out a nice award each year which is >> pretty competitive. Also, several Lions clubs have scholarship >> programs. Many Lions clubs accept applications from sighted students >> as well because of the lack of competition among blind students in a >> local area. >> >> www.fastweb.net is a potential resource. I personally thought it an >> absolute mess, but it would be worth your time setting up a profile. >> It is a giant database of scholarships, and you can enter in all of >> your information, and it will pull up scholarships that you are >> supposedly eligible for. Supposedly is an important word though. You >> need to triple check. You will see lots of giant scholarship programs >> for corporate companies like Coke and Wal-Mart. Go ahead and fill them >> out. The applications take about 5 minutes. But the way I see it is >> that if that is all the effort you have to put into the application, >> the winner is basically drawn. It wouldn't hurt to dedicate a small >> fraction of your time to those applications though just to test your >> luck. But you have to be careful. Any application asking for sensitive >> information should be carefully scrutinized. You should never provide >> your social security number or credit card number. Yeah, some >> scholarships are definitely gimmicks to get your money. Why anyone >> would pay money to win a scholarship, I don't know. So the moral of >> the story is that fastweb can be good, but as you will see in the >> following paragraph, local is better. If you are applying for >> scholarships based on financial need, you might have to provide your >> ssn. But, I would talk to a resource in person such as the examples I >> am about to give, because they will know the legit financial need >> based scholarships. >> >> Every school has some type of scholarship office. If you are in high >> school, it will be in the guidance counselor's office. If you are in >> college, then there will probably be an entire office dedicated to it >> or somehow connected to financial aid. These offices are the best in >> my opinion, because they have information about local scholarships. >> Local scholarships are better, because they might present less >> competition. If a scholarship requires that you attend a school in NC, >> or whatever state you're from, or if it even requires that you went to >> a certain high school, or to school in a certain city, you could be >> narrowing your competition. However, the bigger advantage is that your >> local involvement will mean more to the scholarship committee. There >> will likely be members with kids who do the same volunteering, or >> members that still volunteer with the organizations in which you are >> involved. I received 4 scholarships my freshman year of college, and 3 >> of them were local scholarships given to me at the awards ceremony my >> senior year. Look for state-wide applications as well. Some pan >> disability organizations offer scholarships. One of mine came from a >> family in NC who had a son with a disability who unfortunately passed >> away. So the family set up a scholarship for anyone with a disability. >> >> The possibilities are endless, and as you can see, scholarship finding >> and applying can become a full-time job. So I would encourage you to >> concentrate on scholarships that are really looking for the strengths >> that you have or scholarships in which you fit more than the average >> criteria. Blindness-related scholarships are a great resource, but I >> would encourage you to get out of that mold. I personally enjoyed the >> 2 scholarships I had with interviews, because it gave me a second >> chance to prove myself, and many locally based scholarships conduct >> interviews with their top candidates. >> >> Cindy >> >> >> On 7/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in >>> high >>> school. >>> Where can one get scholarships? >>> The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: >>> http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program >>> ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: >>> http://acb.org/node/148 >>> Light House has a rather large scholarship: >>> >> http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs >> / >>> AFB Has scholarships: >>> https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 >>> CCLVI: >>> http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ >>> ABC: >>> http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx >>> Association of Blind Citizens >>> http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm >>> Learning Ally >>> http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ >>> >>> Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get >>> scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook Foundation: >>> http://www.jkcf.org/ >>> and all the other places listed on this page: >>> http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm >>> Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich families >>> have scholarships. >>> clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, >>> Toastmaster's... >>> Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the Christian >>> Coalition also have scholarships. >>> >>> I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? >>> Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly >>> scholarships >>> for the blind... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory 2012 "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." -- Laurel Thatcher Ulrich From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 22:53:10 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:53:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2@mx.google.com> References: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4DFAE2C52DC341E882034370CCADEFB8@OwnerPC> Beth, Have you looked into getting a new hard drive? might be cheapter than replacing the pc. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go in the trash. That's all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra wrote: Hi, all. To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 23:05:44 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:05:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? In-Reply-To: References: <36FABE9E8B7941C3A72EF038533D68A9@BrandonsLaptop2> <502131C929344B90BAD4FB24B07C98A2@BrandonsLaptop2> <005d01cd69d6$cc416cd0$64c44670$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mary had a good point. Blindness organizations seem to be unique. The NFB of NC scholarship I won was the only one that gave me the check. The others were forwarded right to my school. Cindy On 7/24/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello all, > There are many resources when graduating high school. My high school > actually had an award ceremony. Basically, if you were a great > student, very active, good grades etc., the guidance counselors would > submit your name to various organizations around our township that > gave out small awards to graduating students. It was actually a > really, really nice thing, I got about four of those, that added up to > $7,000. One of them was from the Rotary club, you can apply to your > local branch. If you win that award, they are actually refreshable. > So, you can submit your name each year and depending on your college > GPA you can get another chunk of money from them. Along with that > thought, the ELMS Club, Lions,, Knights of Columbus, and maybe even > the Moose Lodge might have specific local awards. Sometimes the local > Fire Fighters will have a small award for graduating high school > students. And of course,, as you go on in college you will be eligible > to other awards. Be aware that some scholarships, like the NFB and > other private institutions will send you a personl check. Others will > send the check directly to your school's financial AID office. > Depending on what kind of financial aid you have, you might then get a > refund check. In college I lived for refund checks!Like Cindy said, > definitely check to see if your college has a national scholarships > and awards offices. Often these are highly competitive, but many > colleges have internal awards that you can apply for. If you would > like to apply for Roads, Marshal, Soros, Fulbright, Truman, and other > nationally competitive scholarships, colleges often have an internal > application process, and will then refer the applications they find > the most qualified on to those scholarship committees. Keep that GPA > nice and high and apply, apply, apply, you never know what you might > win. After all, someone has to win them ,right? > Mary > > On 7/24/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> I'm sorry. I got the fastweb URL wrong. But those are other great >> resources. I'm sure that many states have college websites that help >> you find colleges, apply, and find scholarships. NC's is www.cfnc.org. >> So search for something like that. But a meeting with your guidance >> counselor is definitely a good idea. They will have that kind of >> information for you. My school had the Lion's club application on hand >> since it was for all students, but if yours doesn't, it wouldn't hurt >> calling a member of the club and asking. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 7/24/12, Humberto Avila wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> The lions club in my area does not offer any scholarships. I've asked >>> them, >>> and they said that they didn't offer any. They just give out special >>> equipment for low vision offered through their low vision clinic and, if >>> you >>> request and get them to, they'll be willing to give other equipment. >>> >>> By the way, thank you for all these scholarship searches. I will >>> consider >>> these that you've sent out, and to you, Cynthia, thanks for yours also. >>> I >>> have also some suggestions. If you ever feel like you have a great sense >>> of >>> luck, there are a bunch of context-like and drawing-like scholarships, >>> also >>> called "sweepstakes", that you can apply for. Providers such as: >>> 1. Fastweb, http://www.fastweb.com/ >>> 2. College Prowler, http://www.collegeProwler.com/ >>> 3. Cappex, http://www.cappex.com/ >>> 4. MulahSpot, http://www.MulahSpot.com >>> >>> And many others, one word of wisdom though. Don't rely on these as much >>> as >>> you would rely on, for example, the blindness ones. However, it doesn't >>> hurt >>> to apply for some or all of these; who knows if you are the winner, and >>> then >>> what? You go to college without Rehabilitation agencies paying for you! >>> (Smile). >>> >>> You can also setup a profile on many websites that also attempt to give >>> you >>> with scholarship search results for you. Web sites such as: >>> 1. www.collegeanswer.com/ >>> 2. www.fastWeb.com/ >>> 3. www.scholarshipDetective.com/ >>> 4. www.scholarships.com/ >>> If you live in Washington State, there is a free web-based tool that you >>> can >>> setup a profile with, it is http://www.theWashBoard.org. >>> >>> Have a nice day and happy scholarship hunting! >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? >>> >>> Hello, >>> Here's the Jewish guild scholarship website: >>> http://www.jgb.org/guildscholar.asp?GS=TRue >>> They are one of the largest scholarships I've seen. >>> Just for reference, $1000 is average, $10000 is exceptional. $500 is >>> pretty >>> >>> good. >>> Jewish Guild is $10000-15000 and they are for high school students. >>> Also attached is a document that talks about scholarships for the blind. >>> There were some I've never heard of, but that I'm totally going to apply >>> for! >>> >>> Also about the Lions Club, if you Google Lions club and your area, you >>> should get a list of clubs in your area. I've never applied for lions >>> club >>> scholarships, but I plan on doing that this next year. I'm guessing that >>> you >>> >>> call them in the fall and or send them emails and say that you want to >>> know >>> >>> if they offer any scholarships to ambitious young college students. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Cynthia Bennett >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:50 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Different places to get Scholarships? >>> >>> Brandon: >>> >>> You ask a very important question. I divided my senior year into >>> halves. I spent the fall applying for schools and the spring applying >>> for scholarships. This isn't always the best way, but that's what I >>> ended up doing. There are a plethora of resources regarding >>> scholarships. I would first look at the schools in which you are >>> applying. Your application for admission will put you into some >>> scholarship pools if basic criteria like GPA or SAT score are met. But >>> some universities have more competitive scholarship programs that have >>> separate applications. Even if you are already a student, many >>> entities on campus have awards. For example, if you have been >>> volunteering with the counseling clinic on campus, they might have a >>> scholarship program. I know the psychology department at my school did >>> a scholarship, and so did our chapter of Psi Chi. Sometimes these >>> awards are smaller, but anything helps, and within university >>> recognition will always help you if you want to apply for other >>> accolades like doing an honors project or working in a research lab. >>> >>> You missed a couple of blindness-related scholarships. I know the >>> Jewish Guild for the Blind gives out a nice award each year which is >>> pretty competitive. Also, several Lions clubs have scholarship >>> programs. Many Lions clubs accept applications from sighted students >>> as well because of the lack of competition among blind students in a >>> local area. >>> >>> www.fastweb.net is a potential resource. I personally thought it an >>> absolute mess, but it would be worth your time setting up a profile. >>> It is a giant database of scholarships, and you can enter in all of >>> your information, and it will pull up scholarships that you are >>> supposedly eligible for. Supposedly is an important word though. You >>> need to triple check. You will see lots of giant scholarship programs >>> for corporate companies like Coke and Wal-Mart. Go ahead and fill them >>> out. The applications take about 5 minutes. But the way I see it is >>> that if that is all the effort you have to put into the application, >>> the winner is basically drawn. It wouldn't hurt to dedicate a small >>> fraction of your time to those applications though just to test your >>> luck. But you have to be careful. Any application asking for sensitive >>> information should be carefully scrutinized. You should never provide >>> your social security number or credit card number. Yeah, some >>> scholarships are definitely gimmicks to get your money. Why anyone >>> would pay money to win a scholarship, I don't know. So the moral of >>> the story is that fastweb can be good, but as you will see in the >>> following paragraph, local is better. If you are applying for >>> scholarships based on financial need, you might have to provide your >>> ssn. But, I would talk to a resource in person such as the examples I >>> am about to give, because they will know the legit financial need >>> based scholarships. >>> >>> Every school has some type of scholarship office. If you are in high >>> school, it will be in the guidance counselor's office. If you are in >>> college, then there will probably be an entire office dedicated to it >>> or somehow connected to financial aid. These offices are the best in >>> my opinion, because they have information about local scholarships. >>> Local scholarships are better, because they might present less >>> competition. If a scholarship requires that you attend a school in NC, >>> or whatever state you're from, or if it even requires that you went to >>> a certain high school, or to school in a certain city, you could be >>> narrowing your competition. However, the bigger advantage is that your >>> local involvement will mean more to the scholarship committee. There >>> will likely be members with kids who do the same volunteering, or >>> members that still volunteer with the organizations in which you are >>> involved. I received 4 scholarships my freshman year of college, and 3 >>> of them were local scholarships given to me at the awards ceremony my >>> senior year. Look for state-wide applications as well. Some pan >>> disability organizations offer scholarships. One of mine came from a >>> family in NC who had a son with a disability who unfortunately passed >>> away. So the family set up a scholarship for anyone with a disability. >>> >>> The possibilities are endless, and as you can see, scholarship finding >>> and applying can become a full-time job. So I would encourage you to >>> concentrate on scholarships that are really looking for the strengths >>> that you have or scholarships in which you fit more than the average >>> criteria. Blindness-related scholarships are a great resource, but I >>> would encourage you to get out of that mold. I personally enjoyed the >>> 2 scholarships I had with interviews, because it gave me a second >>> chance to prove myself, and many locally based scholarships conduct >>> interviews with their top candidates. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> I thought this thread would be good for those of us in college and in >>>> high >>>> school. >>>> Where can one get scholarships? >>>> The NFB has their large 30 scholarship program: >>>> http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program >>>> ACB has their smaller but still substantial scholarship program: >>>> http://acb.org/node/148 >>>> Light House has a rather large scholarship: >>>> >>> http://www.lighthouse.org/services-and-assistance/scholarship-award-programs >>> / >>>> AFB Has scholarships: >>>> https://www.afb.org/section.aspx?Documentid=2962 >>>> CCLVI: >>>> http://www.cclvi.org/scholarships/ >>>> ABC: >>>> http://www.abc.org/Education_Training/Scholarships.aspx >>>> Association of Blind Citizens >>>> http://www.blindcitizens.org/abc_scholarship.htm >>>> Learning Ally >>>> http://www.learningally.org/Scholarship-Opportunities-Information/615/ >>>> >>>> Your financial aid should have a website or list of places to get >>>> scholarships. There are scholarships like the Jack Kent Cook >>>> Foundation: >>>> http://www.jkcf.org/ >>>> and all the other places listed on this page: >>>> http://www.radford.edu/~nchc/other-links.htm >>>> Gates, Churchill, Carnegie, Goldwater, Javits... All those rich >>>> families >>>> have scholarships. >>>> clubs like 4-H, Girl Scouts, Pathfinders, FFA, ROTC, Basketball, >>>> Toastmaster's... >>>> Interest groups like NAACP, National Rifle Association and the >>>> Christian >>>> Coalition also have scholarships. >>>> >>>> I'd like to know where other people get their scholarships from? >>>> Where do sighted people get scholarships? The above is mostly >>>> scholarships >>>> for the blind... >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cynthia Bennett >>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> 828.989.5383 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory 2012 > "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes > up her burdens and walks toward the future." > -- > Laurel Thatcher Ulrich > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 23:41:52 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:41:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <50097a77.8822320a.32b9.37d1@mx.google.com> <-9097187802540259749@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-995738774591193550@unknownmsgid> Well I've been around the US for a while now but home is still in Spain for me. I came to study to the US on a full scholarship from the school I was attending. In any case I'm not a US citizen so rehab probably wouldn't have had to deal with me anyways. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 8:23 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignasi, > where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school without rehab if you can pay for it. > That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my college choices. > > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college > > I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I > sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what > rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to > schools just like anyone else? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu Tue Jul 24 23:44:10 2012 From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:44:10 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243158E0400@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> A few notes in response to the comments of a few different people: Joshua Lester: The Xbox resolution passed at convention this year. Please do your research before you post inaccurate information. I am inside nobody's head, so I cannot speak to the source of the voting decisions of others. I was the sponsor (not the author, but the sponsor) of this resolution. The Xbox 360 does much more than provide a gaming platform. The Xbox 360 has fucntions such as television streaming, Microsoft account management, and Microsoft product updates. Congress has said that access to these technologies is a civil right, and we need to protect accessibility. I want to put extra emphasis on the fact that Microsoft uses the Xbox 360 to communicate with its customers. We, the blind, deserve to participate in those consumer interactions. Some people argued that it's not a priority. My response to that is that we are not limited to a certain number of priorities. If we had let this one go, we would have been starting down a very slippery slope with accepting inaccessible technologies. Ashley Bramlett: You highlight an important point that we need young people to get involved, but we don't always shout about someone new joining the organization. Very few people take off with a bang. It's gradual. We have new people joining, but you just don't hear about it the way you hear about members dying. Kirt Manwaring: Don't be afraid of hypotheticals. Be as involved as you promised you would be when you were giving speeches as a national scholarship winner in 2010! Not being fully involved because you might one day wish to leave is like not dating an amazing girl because she could break your heart one day. Date that girl! Yours in Federationism, Justin Salisbury Justin M. Salisbury Class of 2012 B.A. in Mathematics East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 23:53:18 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:53:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Desiree, I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low level cclass that they require everyone to take. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you > don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's > easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, > so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being > privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want > to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds > gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a > specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. > They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party > their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is > that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school > kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have > immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in > college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and > stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand > old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No > parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody > saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from > sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they > didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we > live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. > One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't > know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were > treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed > to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed > them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. > I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. > As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I > actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, > the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google > indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I > know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education > that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for > college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth > of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't > want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Beth, >> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >> of thing? >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >> things >> back. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >> But ... >> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >> they pay >> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >> financial reasons. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >> stupid >> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 23:56:24 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:56:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. > The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. > It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. > I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these > developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) > Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. > That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to > get a real degree! > I wasn't going to have that! > I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to > do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for > VR. > I'm getting that degree, next May! > Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in > 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! > Good grief! > That's Rehab for you! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Hi all, >> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >> >> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Beth, >>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>> of thing? >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>> things >>> back. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>> But ... >>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>> they pay >>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>> financial reasons. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>> if I >>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>> what >>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>> apply to >>> schools just like anyone else? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>> stupid >>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>> should just >>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>> this in order >>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>> that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>> the adaptive >>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know >>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>> college and if >>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>> computer. Because >>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>> failure, you really >>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>> support in >>> the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>> you want in >>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>> have a Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>> for you. They >>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>> moving >>> and firm >>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, even >>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>> is >>> the key and >>> independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>> apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>> assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>> and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>> the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>> their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>> people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>> 0students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Jul 24 23:57:58 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:57:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi, Desiree. You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school years, and you also play the guitar. Why not major in music? Thanks, Joshua On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Desiree, > I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you > said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But > please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled > with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many > places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide > you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the > best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to > math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you > won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low > level cclass that they require everyone to take. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >> >> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Beth, >>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>> tell >>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>> of thing? >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>> things >>> back. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>> But ... >>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>> they pay >>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>> financial reasons. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>> if I >>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>> what >>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>> apply to >>> schools just like anyone else? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>> stupid >>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>> should just >>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>> this in order >>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>> that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>> the adaptive >>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know >>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>> college and if >>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>> computer. Because >>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>> failure, you really >>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>> support in >>> the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>> you want in >>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>> have a Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>> for you. They >>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>> moving >>> and firm >>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, even >>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>> is >>> the key and >>> independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>> apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>> assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>> and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>> the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>> their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>> people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>> 0students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 25 00:02:24 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:02:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Ignasi, it's overwhelming, when you have instructors that aren't accomidating! Blessings, Joshua On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. > That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to > exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >> get a real degree! >> I wasn't going to have that! >> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >> VR. >> I'm getting that degree, next May! >> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >> Good grief! >> That's Rehab for you! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>> college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>> tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 25 00:17:14 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:17:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045@mx.google.com> References: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth -- I work for a rehab agency -- not Colorado, and in all honesty, I have to say the justifications you have given for wanting a Mac wouldn't do it for me. You are basically saying I want one. At this point we buy mainly Windows machines because that is where we, and our trainers have the most experience. It is what is still used at the majority of work sites and there is more Windows knowledge in the blind community then Mac. This is changing some, but you need to say what you can do with the Mac that you can't do with a Windows PC. Dave At 09:00 AM 7/24/2012, you wrote: >I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get on >certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better than Keyweb. >Beth > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > >Beth, >then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined? >If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for you. >BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy macs. >Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment. employers >use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in microsoft and >windows applications. > >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Beth >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > >True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is >broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go >in the trash. That's all. >Beth > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > >Beth, >I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to >want a >Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better >user >experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. >Now... >If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine >could >I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I >didn't >really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable >but is >also not rehab's problem. > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth wrote: > >Hi, all. >To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal >accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want >something with good tech support. The tech support people from >India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the >demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to >be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because >JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all >I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to >be able to use one so bad. >Beth From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 25 00:19:44 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:19:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> <500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com> <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I work for Rehab and we buy a few Macs. If the person can justify it -- show why it is better than what we would usually buy, then we will, no problem. I have one myself -- dual boot it between Mac and Windows. Dave At 10:06 AM 7/24/2012, you wrote: >Tyler, >While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we >should be supportive. >A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I >said pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. >I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50 >messages to read on the rehab thread, >but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a mac. >I say this to point out that many people like macs for various >reasons, but rehab did >not get them one. > >Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then >get a pc through them. >At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for >college a third time for you. >I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other means. > >You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get >equipment for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems >to me parents should buy more equipment for blind children rather >than relying on the government for it! Its part of being a >supportive parent. Parents get sighted kids cars, car insurance, >many visual entertainment games including the wii and playstation, >computers, computer accessories, and more. Yet blind children do not >get computers and the software to run them. Something is wrong with >this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my braille note. >So they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and sending >me to school which is part of rasing a kid. > >Ashley > > >-----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > >It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. >Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover >question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like >you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, >but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good >tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as >well. > >Basically here's what this comes down to. >You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said >you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it >again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, >compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and >holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through >school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your >choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. >On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >>Hi, all. >>To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal >>accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want >>something with good tech support. The tech support people from >>India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the >>demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to >>be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because >>JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I >>can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be >>able to use one so bad. >>Beth >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 25 00:22:04 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac In-Reply-To: <000b01cd69b9$3113f470$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <500e674d.e268320a.4a1e.4c63@mx.google.com> <500EB2FE.1030805@tysdomain.com> <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A@OwnerPC> <500EC827.5010105@tysdomain.com> <000b01cd69b9$3113f470$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: OK everybody, let up on Beth, don't use judgmental words like whining. People have adequately made the point that she needs to write a better justification -- leave it at that. David Andrews, List Owner At 11:27 AM 7/24/2012, you wrote: >I'm no councilor, but I've figured out, that justification is >emportant. If Beth wants a Mac so bad, she needs to stop wining, and >work toward getting one herself! My father taught me from the time I >was born the value of work! That's why I am living in my own home, >which I helped my parents build along with my sister! How do you >think Gernigan and Maurer got to where theywere? I'm sorry, but >enough is enough! You got training from CCB, use it! RJ >----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:07 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac > > >>Ashly, >>I don't want to be mean, but coming out and saying what needs to be >>said should be good. Granted I may as well be talking to a wall at >>this point, since she is stuck on the mac and the reasons for it >>keep changing, but whatever. >> >>As for parents being required to help blind people, they already >>do. My brother got his car for $800 or so. Maybe he had help, I >>honestly have no clue. But part of the money he put in. Unless >>parents are dropping 10+k on a car, justifying "I need a braille >>note because joe got a car," doesn't quite work. Your braille note >>costed at least 5 times more than a reliable car did, not to mention your pc. >>On 7/24/2012 9:06 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>Tyler, >>>While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we >>>should be supportive. >>>A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I >>>said pretty much the same thing as you, without being blunt. >>>I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over >>>50 messages to read on the rehab thread, >>>but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got >>>them a mac. >>>I say this to point out that many people like macs for various >>>reasons, but rehab did >>>not get them one. >>> >>>Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then >>>get a pc through them. >>>At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for >>>college a third time for you. >>>I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other means. >>> >>>You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get >>>equipment for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems >>>to me parents should buy more equipment for blind children rather >>>than relying on the government for it! Its part of being a >>>supportive parent. Parents get sighted kids cars, car insurance, >>>many visual entertainment games including the wii and playstation, >>>computers, computer accessories, and more. Yet blind children do >>>not get computers and the software to run them. Something is wrong >>>with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my >>>braille note. So they did share some of the cost of buying >>>equipment and sending me to school which is part of rasing a kid. >>> >>>Ashley >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >>>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac >>> >>>It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon. >>>Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover >>>question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like >>>you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess, >>>but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good >>>tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as >>>well. >>> >>>Basically here's what this comes down to. >>>You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said >>>you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it >>>again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get, >>>compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and >>>holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through >>>school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your >>>choice, just wanted to throw all that out there. >>>On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote: >>>>Hi, all. >>>>To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal >>>>accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want >>>>something with good tech support. The tech support people from >>>>India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the >>>>demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to >>>>be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because >>>>JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all I >>>>can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be >>>>able to use one so bad. >>>>Beth >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >> >> >>-- >>Take care, >>Ty >>http://tds-solutions.net >>The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 00:32:00 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:32:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Ignosi, This is partly right. College students, particularly freshman, can go wild. They are immature and don't show up for classes; they party too much. They don't take school seriously and as Disiree said they might be there for athletics more than academics. They get athletic scholarships; others get grants and/or scholarships and go even though they're not ready. Parents do pressure kids to go to college and some even pressure for a certain major. No, college is a pretty civil place; not the play environment Desiree eluded to perhaps. But it can get disruptive especially toward the weekend in the dorm. Students play music too loud; some students yell which is not respecting quiet rules time. So I see truth to both what you're saying. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college Desiree, I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low level cclass that they require everyone to take. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi all, > Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you > don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's > easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, > so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being > privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want > to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds > gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a > specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. > They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party > their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is > that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school > kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have > immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in > college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and > stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand > old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No > parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody > saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from > sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they > didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we > live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. > One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't > know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were > treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed > to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed > them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. > I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. > As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I > actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, > the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google > indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I > know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education > that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for > college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth > of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't > want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Beth, >> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >> of thing? >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >> getaworkingcomputerfor college >> >> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >> things >> back. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >> aworkingcomputerfor college >> >> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >> But ... >> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >> they pay >> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >> financial reasons. >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >> if I >> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >> what >> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >> apply to >> schools just like anyone else? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >> stupid >> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> workingcomputerfor college >> >> Hello, >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >> should just >> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >> this in order >> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >> a >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >> that >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >> the adaptive >> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >> supervisor know >> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >> college and if >> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >> computer. Because >> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >> failure, you really >> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >> support in >> the world. >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >> you want in >> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >> have a Mac. >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >> for you. They >> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >> moving >> and firm >> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >> have, even >> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >> is >> the key and >> independence is the way. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >> working >> computerfor college >> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >> apps >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >> assessment >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >> and >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >> the >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >> their >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >> people >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >> Thanks, >> Beth >> >> >> -- >> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 00:29:00 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:29:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success Message-ID: Hi all, First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over papers or provide general research advice. And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them out of your way. Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were having before? Best, Arielle From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 00:38:25 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:38:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Ignosi, While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is different. I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened to mine so could not take short cuts. I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in upper level classes. I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 credits isn't a lot of work. I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I finished my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business writing. I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester including multiple papers. If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can handle than let grades and mental health suffer. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. > The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. > It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. > I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these > developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) > Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. > That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to > get a real degree! > I wasn't going to have that! > I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to > do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for > VR. > I'm getting that degree, next May! > Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in > 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! > Good grief! > That's Rehab for you! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Hi all, >> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >> >> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Beth, >>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>> tell >>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>> of thing? >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>> things >>> back. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>> But ... >>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>> they pay >>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>> financial reasons. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>> if I >>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>> what >>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>> apply to >>> schools just like anyone else? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>> stupid >>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>> should just >>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>> this in order >>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>> that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>> the adaptive >>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know >>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>> college and if >>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>> computer. Because >>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>> failure, you really >>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>> support in >>> the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>> you want in >>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>> have a Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>> for you. They >>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>> moving >>> and firm >>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, even >>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>> is >>> the key and >>> independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>> apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>> assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>> and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>> the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>> their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>> people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>> 0students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 00:53:30 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:53:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] academic status Message-ID: Hi all, I’m responding to what Desiree said here. It will clear up confusion for those who wondered about the term or got scared of it. Schools have performance standards. Such standards are based on your Grade point average, GPA. The deans list is for the top students; at community college deans list means students who get a 3.5 or over taking at least 6 credits. On the opposite side is academic probation if you do not do well a few semesters. Desiree said: “I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. “ Hi, actually, its not too bad; as long as you get off it. Basically it means you fell below a certain GPA; schools vary what this is. I think for my school, Marymount university, it was 2.0. What happens is you’re given a warning and you have to raise your GPA within two semesters. That is all. It basically means you need to improve and it’s a trial period. I do not think its on your transcript; only way anyone knows is if they get your file from them. True, some employers request transcripts, but I don’t think it says academic probation, just your grades for every class. Although I might clarify that to see that I’m giving correct info. Most students can get off academic probation by studying more, going to classes regularly and getting extra help such as tutoring. But even if you drop out or get thrown out of school, you can go back to school in a year by reapplying. Academic probation has nothing to do with the police and only way I can see it comprimising a job or interview, is if the employer looked at every grade and class you took seeing where you got Ds and Fs. Most employers though want to see you got a diploma, when you got it, and when. They don’t want to know the specifics. So, an employer will never know the terrible grade I got in ethics. Yes I got some bad grades because it was too hard for me. But I did get a diploma and that is what I can state on my resume and job interviews. Okay, just wanted to clear this up so no one has misinformation what academic status is. Ashley From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 00:56:09 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:56:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi Joshua, I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I said, I'm not good at thinking fast. Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I appreciate the suggestion, though. On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi, Desiree. > You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school > years, and you also play the guitar. > Why not major in music? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> Desiree, >> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>> college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>> tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 00:57:30 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:57:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignosi, > While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is different. > > I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. > I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. > It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened > to mine so could not take short cuts. > I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in upper > > level classes. > I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 > credits isn't a lot of work. > I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I finished > > my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking > writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business > writing. > > I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester > including multiple papers. > If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can > handle than let grades and mental health suffer. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor > > college > > 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. > That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to > exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >> get a real degree! >> I wasn't going to have that! >> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >> VR. >> I'm getting that degree, next May! >> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >> Good grief! >> That's Rehab for you! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>> college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>> tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 01:08:08 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:08:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] academic status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the information. It was just the way Beth was talking about it that made it sound, at the very least, like she was kicked out of college for being on academic probation. I apologize if that's not the case and I'm totally reading the situation wrong. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I’m responding to what Desiree said here. It will clear up confusion for > those who wondered about the term or got scared of it. > Schools have performance standards. Such standards are based on your Grade > point average, GPA. > The deans list is for the top students; at community college deans list > means students who get a 3.5 or over taking at least 6 credits. > > On the opposite side is academic probation if you do not do well a few > semesters. > Desiree said: > “I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. “ > > Hi, actually, its not too bad; as long as you get off it. Basically it means > you fell below a certain GPA; schools vary what this is. I think for my > school, Marymount university, it was 2.0. What happens is you’re given a > warning and you have to raise your GPA within two semesters. That is all. It > basically means you need to improve and it’s a trial period. I do not think > its on your transcript; only way anyone knows is if they get your file from > them. True, some employers request transcripts, but I don’t think it says > academic probation, just your grades for every class. Although I might > clarify that to see that I’m giving correct info. > > Most students can get off academic probation by studying more, going to > classes regularly and getting extra help such as tutoring. But even if you > drop out or get thrown out of school, you can go back to school in a year by > reapplying. Academic probation has nothing to do with the police and only > way I can see it comprimising a job or interview, is if the employer looked > at every grade and class you took seeing where you got Ds and Fs. > Most employers though want to see you got a diploma, when you got it, and > when. They don’t want to know the specifics. > So, an employer will never know the terrible grade I got in ethics. Yes I > got some bad grades because it was too hard for me. But I did get a diploma > and that is what I can state on my resume and job interviews. > > Okay, just wanted to clear this up so no one has misinformation what > academic status is. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 01:09:46 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:09:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <002101cd6a02$2ef9bcd0$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> The Mac Minni is 599 dollars. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > Hi Joshua, > I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would > really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. > For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing > how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's > standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in > that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel > comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with > witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep > things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to > playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, > and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only > can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make > your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of > those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally > large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that > way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio > station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading > services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the > controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone > was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and > things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 > seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would > be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or > cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I > said, I'm not good at thinking fast. > Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college > education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that > purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I > appreciate the suggestion, though. > > On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Hi, Desiree. >> You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school >> years, and you also play the guitar. >> Why not major in music? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> Desiree, >>> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >>> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >>> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >>> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >>> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >>> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >>> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >>> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >>> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >>> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>> college >>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>> tell >>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>> of thing? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>> things >>>>> back. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>> But ... >>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>> they pay >>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>> financial reasons. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>> stupid >>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 01:13:05 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:13:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. Arielle On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one > person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the > freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Ignosi, >> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >> different. >> >> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. >> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >> listened >> to mine so could not take short cuts. >> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in >> upper >> >> level classes. >> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >> credits isn't a lot of work. >> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >> finished >> >> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and >> business >> writing. >> >> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >> including multiple papers. >> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ignasi Cambra >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >> >> college >> >> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>> get a real degree! >>> I wasn't going to have that! >>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>> VR. >>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>> Good grief! >>> That's Rehab for you! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>> college >>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>> tell >>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>> of thing? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>> things >>>>> back. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>> But ... >>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>> they pay >>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>> financial reasons. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>> stupid >>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 01:25:40 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:25:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac Message-ID: <500f4b2d.25d1320a.5731.06de@mx.google.com> I'm not thinking about that because even if I replace the hard drive, it's not under warranty. I want a better warranty and a better laptop. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" References: Message-ID: <93E3FA6FABEB4FF6B42922A9053584C3@OwnerPC> Desiree, Not exactly. You are only kicked out of school if you do not raise your GPA in a certain amount of time. You would have to have several Fs for more than one semester to be kicked out. Academic probation means a trial period. It’s a warning before you are kicked out. It’s a good thing so students who really want to succeed are not just thrown out of school. They are given a trial period to get their grades up. Everyone has hard classes and a bad semester at one time or another. IMO, its pretty easy to fall onto academic probation. you do not even have to fail a class to get it. You can just have Ds and that brings your GPA down enough to be on academic probation. It won't affect your job prospects to have a bad semester or two. But it may affect financial aid. Not sure on that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status Thanks for the information. It was just the way Beth was talking about it that made it sound, at the very least, like she was kicked out of college for being on academic probation. I apologize if that's not the case and I'm totally reading the situation wrong. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I’m responding to what Desiree said here. It will clear up confusion for > those who wondered about the term or got scared of it. > Schools have performance standards. Such standards are based on your Grade > point average, GPA. > The deans list is for the top students; at community college deans list > means students who get a 3.5 or over taking at least 6 credits. > > On the opposite side is academic probation if you do not do well a few > semesters. > Desiree said: > “I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. “ > > Hi, actually, its not too bad; as long as you get off it. Basically it > means > you fell below a certain GPA; schools vary what this is. I think for my > school, Marymount university, it was 2.0. What happens is you’re given a > warning and you have to raise your GPA within two semesters. That is all. > It > basically means you need to improve and it’s a trial period. I do not > think > its on your transcript; only way anyone knows is if they get your file > from > them. True, some employers request transcripts, but I don’t think it says > academic probation, just your grades for every class. Although I might > clarify that to see that I’m giving correct info. > > Most students can get off academic probation by studying more, going to > classes regularly and getting extra help such as tutoring. But even if you > drop out or get thrown out of school, you can go back to school in a year > by > reapplying. Academic probation has nothing to do with the police and only > way I can see it comprimising a job or interview, is if the employer > looked > at every grade and class you took seeing where you got Ds and Fs. > Most employers though want to see you got a diploma, when you got it, and > when. They don’t want to know the specifics. > So, an employer will never know the terrible grade I got in ethics. Yes I > got some bad grades because it was too hard for me. But I did get a > diploma > and that is what I can state on my resume and job interviews. > > Okay, just wanted to clear this up so no one has misinformation what > academic status is. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 01:33:34 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:33:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Desiree, We have a choice. 12 credits is the minimum for being full time. Of course, blind students can go part time taking 6 or 9 credits. But then rehab won't pay, you'd need another funding source. I took that 12 credits and I felt it was overwelming at times. I'm really surprised that someone thinks it is not much work. I had homework everyday and at finals time, I did not get enough sleep. A student can take up to 17 credits typically without being overloaded. Most colleges consider 12-17 credits to be full time. Beyond that, its an overload and the student is charged extra money. Three credits is a typical class; some classes are 4 credits if they consist of lecture and lab. FYI, one or two credit classes usually are electives and meet once a week. I'm certainly glad 12 credits was full time as this was enough for me. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignosi, > While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is > different. > > I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. > I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. > It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened > to mine so could not take short cuts. > I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in > upper > > level classes. > I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 > credits isn't a lot of work. > I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I > finished > > my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking > writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business > writing. > > I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester > including multiple papers. > If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can > handle than let grades and mental health suffer. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor > > college > > 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. > That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to > exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >> get a real degree! >> I wasn't going to have that! >> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >> VR. >> I'm getting that degree, next May! >> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >> Good grief! >> That's Rehab for you! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>> college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>> tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 01:35:54 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:35:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <0DB0FD4974634714979CE0A6B7B6EE1E@OwnerPC> good post Arielle! We are not the only ones restricted to the full time status of 12 credits; others are too if someone else pays for college. -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. Arielle On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one > person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the > freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Ignosi, >> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >> different. >> >> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. >> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >> listened >> to mine so could not take short cuts. >> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in >> upper >> >> level classes. >> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >> credits isn't a lot of work. >> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >> finished >> >> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and >> business >> writing. >> >> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >> including multiple papers. >> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ignasi Cambra >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >> >> college >> >> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>> get a real degree! >>> I wasn't going to have that! >>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>> VR. >>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>> Good grief! >>> That's Rehab for you! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>> college >>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>> tell >>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>> of thing? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>> things >>>>> back. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>> But ... >>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>> they pay >>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>> financial reasons. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>> stupid >>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kobycox at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 01:50:14 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:50:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arielle, Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at college? Right back soon, Koby. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the > tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic > department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally > signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my > expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, > :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to > help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who > are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no > stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring > center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't > stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that > smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary > in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and > serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students > who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is > struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester > and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should > worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your > school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably > shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. > I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service > where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind > students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor > someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you > in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over > papers or provide general research advice. > And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, > but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract > goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out > if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals > could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as > specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of > blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let > fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range > goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon > some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them > out of your way. > Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds > awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in > class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, > I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with > hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is > something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue > with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind > folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the > sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. > Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it > does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these > things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we > can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these > issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try > a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were > having before? > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 01:56:05 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:56:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <0DB0FD4974634714979CE0A6B7B6EE1E@OwnerPC> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> <0DB0FD4974634714979CE0A6B7B6EE1E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I think that everyone is different when it comes to education and the workload they can handle. I was personally annoyed that my rehab counselor recommended that I take a lighter (12 hour) load my first semester. I prefered to jump in, and I took 16 credits each semester and was a successful student. I am not saying that I am better or that you have to do it my way, but Ihave heard from several blind students that they were encouraged to take lighter class loads, and some did just because their counselor or some other "blindness professional" told them. I would encourage you to investigate what you can handle yourself, and to not let anyone tell you how much blindness will impact your education. Plus, blindness may not even be the reason you need to take fewer classes. Maybe academics aren't your thing or maybe you have kids or you have to work full time. Everyone is different Cindy On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > good post Arielle! We are not the only ones restricted to the full time > status of 12 credits; others are too if someone else pays for college. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do > sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load > is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students > don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and > student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. > Arielle > > On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? >> >> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Ignosi, >>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>> different. >>> >>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>> years. >>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>> listened >>> to mine so could not take short cuts. >>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in >>> upper >>> >>> level classes. >>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >>> credits isn't a lot of work. >>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>> finished >>> >>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >>> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and >>> business >>> writing. >>> >>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >>> including multiple papers. >>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >>> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>> >>> college >>> >>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >>> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education >>>> certificate. >>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>>> get a real degree! >>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>>> VR. >>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>> Good grief! >>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>> college >>>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>>> tell >>>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>> of thing? >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>> things >>>>>> back. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>> But ... >>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>> they pay >>>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>>> financial reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>> if I >>>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>>> what >>>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>>> apply to >>>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>> stupid >>>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>> should just >>>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>>> this in order >>>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>>> a >>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>>> that >>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>>> the adaptive >>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>> supervisor know >>>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>>> college and if >>>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>>> computer. Because >>>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>>> failure, you really >>>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>>> support in >>>>>> the world. >>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>> you want in >>>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>>> have a Mac. >>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>> for you. They >>>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>>> moving >>>>>> and firm >>>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>>> have, even >>>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>>> is >>>>>> the key and >>>>>> independence is the way. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>> working >>>>>> computerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>> apps >>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>> assessment >>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>>> and >>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>>> the >>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>>> their >>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>> people >>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 03:41:03 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:41:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] academic status In-Reply-To: <93E3FA6FABEB4FF6B42922A9053584C3@OwnerPC> References: <93E3FA6FABEB4FF6B42922A9053584C3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <006b01cd6a17$51abd460$f5037d20$@gmail.com> Does academic probation affect how you are given tuition assistance from your rehab agencies though? Or how do they take these kinds of things? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status Desiree, Not exactly. You are only kicked out of school if you do not raise your GPA in a certain amount of time. You would have to have several Fs for more than one semester to be kicked out. Academic probation means a trial period. It's a warning before you are kicked out. It's a good thing so students who really want to succeed are not just thrown out of school. They are given a trial period to get their grades up. Everyone has hard classes and a bad semester at one time or another. IMO, its pretty easy to fall onto academic probation. you do not even have to fail a class to get it. You can just have Ds and that brings your GPA down enough to be on academic probation. It won't affect your job prospects to have a bad semester or two. But it may affect financial aid. Not sure on that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status Thanks for the information. It was just the way Beth was talking about it that made it sound, at the very least, like she was kicked out of college for being on academic probation. I apologize if that's not the case and I'm totally reading the situation wrong. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm responding to what Desiree said here. It will clear up confusion for > those who wondered about the term or got scared of it. > Schools have performance standards. Such standards are based on your Grade > point average, GPA. > The deans list is for the top students; at community college deans list > means students who get a 3.5 or over taking at least 6 credits. > > On the opposite side is academic probation if you do not do well a few > semesters. > Desiree said: > "I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading > this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of > the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as > well. " > > Hi, actually, its not too bad; as long as you get off it. Basically it > means > you fell below a certain GPA; schools vary what this is. I think for my > school, Marymount university, it was 2.0. What happens is you're given a > warning and you have to raise your GPA within two semesters. That is all. > It > basically means you need to improve and it's a trial period. I do not > think > its on your transcript; only way anyone knows is if they get your file > from > them. True, some employers request transcripts, but I don't think it says > academic probation, just your grades for every class. Although I might > clarify that to see that I'm giving correct info. > > Most students can get off academic probation by studying more, going to > classes regularly and getting extra help such as tutoring. But even if you > drop out or get thrown out of school, you can go back to school in a year > by > reapplying. Academic probation has nothing to do with the police and only > way I can see it comprimising a job or interview, is if the employer > looked > at every grade and class you took seeing where you got Ds and Fs. > Most employers though want to see you got a diploma, when you got it, and > when. They don't want to know the specifics. > So, an employer will never know the terrible grade I got in ethics. Yes I > got some bad grades because it was too hard for me. But I did get a > diploma > and that is what I can state on my resume and job interviews. > > Okay, just wanted to clear this up so no one has misinformation what > academic status is. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From amylsabo at comcast.net Wed Jul 25 03:40:41 2012 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:40:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] new email address Message-ID: <02e801cd6a17$4748d540$d5da7fc0$@comcast.net> Hello all, I hope that you are all doing good. I'm letting you all know that I have changed my email address since I wasn't able to get my Comcast mail to work with ms office 2010. So, my new email address is: amieelsabo at gmail.com so, please make the necessary of this change for me in your email address books or other ways of me to correspond with you. Thanks again and, I look forward to hearing from you all soon. Hugs, amy From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 03:57:54 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:57:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Uh, Being an Opera singer kind of requires a college education now. At least 8 years... Either that or you need to spend all the money out of your pocket for private lessons and trips over to Italy and Germany. Have you considered being an A&R person? Working in music business is something the blind community needs and it's very rewarding I hear. You get to hobnob with the best and still go sit in a bar without people falling all over you. It's not as grueling as normal business either, because the only numbers you need to deal with are really familiar! $10 times 3 million, song writer gets 0.75 scents every $10. How can we get this musician out in the public? Hm... Or if you like being in charge of musicians, telling them what to do and being the one who wants to watch a group gain fame because of you, being a manager is the way to go. You get paid to go to a concert where the tickets are $130 in the back row... I'm sure in some cases the manager is the guy who gets the crowd worked up, but it doesn't have to be that way. There are two different degrees that you could take, either music business or marketing. If you had the marketing, you may want to take some classes from the music department and get a minor or second major in general music. If I didn't love singing so much, I probably would be an A&R person. They are the ones who run the industry that's not classical or Jazz. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college Hi Joshua, I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I said, I'm not good at thinking fast. Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I appreciate the suggestion, though. On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi, Desiree. > You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school > years, and you also play the guitar. > Why not major in music? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> Desiree, >> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>> college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>> tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 04:15:24 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:15:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4D1790511EB9440BAB00BCC63237CF94@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I often found that listening to my books on my Braille+ then going over the chapters a second time on my computer while answering the study guide questions was the best way. I always read the textbook first thing, except in music theory. I can not stand human voices for some reason. By the first week I'm usually done with the text book and only have the assignments to worry about. I make sure I know a basic outline for every class, I read every syllabus and make sure I understand everything. If I get a bad grade on a test, I confront my teacher and ask him what the right answers are. I've often caught teachers in word traps where they said one thing and it could mean two things. They often give me credit for that. I also often take honors classes, so not only are the teachers the best in the school, but the other students are more motivated in class. I find the atmosphere of the normal classes is really lethargic and the honors classes are always vibrant and full of passion. Another thing I always try to do is connect the class I'm in to either another class I'm taking or my major. For example, I wrote a paper on Verdi and told how his music influenced the revolt against Napoleon. I also wrote a business plan in my business class on how much it would cost to become a working performer in my area. In my speech class, I often told stories about the songs I was singing. Because they were in German, I didn't need to worry about plagiarism. So being creative is the real key to being a student. It makes life so much more fun and rewarding. Although the educational system suppresses creativity, it's our job to rekindle that most essential part of humanity. Do schools kill creativity? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Desiree, We have a choice. 12 credits is the minimum for being full time. Of course, blind students can go part time taking 6 or 9 credits. But then rehab won't pay, you'd need another funding source. I took that 12 credits and I felt it was overwelming at times. I'm really surprised that someone thinks it is not much work. I had homework everyday and at finals time, I did not get enough sleep. A student can take up to 17 credits typically without being overloaded. Most colleges consider 12-17 credits to be full time. Beyond that, its an overload and the student is charged extra money. Three credits is a typical class; some classes are 4 credits if they consist of lecture and lab. FYI, one or two credit classes usually are electives and meet once a week. I'm certainly glad 12 credits was full time as this was enough for me. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignosi, > While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is > different. > > I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. > I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. > It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened > to mine so could not take short cuts. > I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in > upper > > level classes. > I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 > credits isn't a lot of work. > I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I > finished > > my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking > writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business > writing. > > I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester > including multiple papers. > If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can > handle than let grades and mental health suffer. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerfor > > college > > 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. > That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to > exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >> get a real degree! >> I wasn't going to have that! >> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >> VR. >> I'm getting that degree, next May! >> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >> Good grief! >> That's Rehab for you! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>> college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>> tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 08:04:34 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:04:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-3213702887536372732@unknownmsgid> I know it can be true... I was a freshman at one point and lived in the dorms... What I meant is that she was generalizing. You can find all kinds of freshmen and there really isn't a reason for Desiree to not meet great people in college. I was just trying to reassure her because it sounds like she had some pretty bad experiences in the past... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignosi, > This is partly right. College students, particularly freshman, can go wild. They are immature and don't show up for classes; they party too much. > They don't take school seriously and as Disiree said they might be there for athletics more than academics. They get athletic scholarships; others get grants and/or scholarships and go even though they're not ready. > Parents do pressure kids to go to college and some even pressure for a certain major. > > No, college is a pretty civil place; not the play environment Desiree eluded to perhaps. But it can get > disruptive especially toward the weekend in the dorm. Students play music too loud; some students yell which is not respecting quiet rules time. > > So I see truth to both what you're saying. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > Desiree, > I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you > said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But > please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled > with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many > places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide > you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the > best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to > math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you > won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low > level cclass that they require everyone to take. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >> >> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Beth, >>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>> of thing? >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>> things >>> back. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: David Andrews >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>> >>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>> But ... >>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>> they pay >>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>> financial reasons. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>> if I >>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>> what >>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>> apply to >>> schools just like anyone else? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>> stupid >>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> workingcomputerfor college >>> >>> Hello, >>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>> should just >>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>> this in order >>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>> a >>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>> that >>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>> the adaptive >>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>> supervisor know >>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>> college and if >>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>> computer. Because >>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>> failure, you really >>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>> support in >>> the world. >>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>> you want in >>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>> have a Mac. >>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>> for you. They >>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>> moving >>> and firm >>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>> have, even >>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>> is >>> the key and >>> independence is the way. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Beth >>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>> working >>> computerfor college >>> >>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>> apps >>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>> assessment >>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>> and >>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>> the >>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>> their >>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>> people >>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>> Thanks, >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>> 0students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 08:15:36 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:15:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <3250900783143579668@unknownmsgid> I double majored in piano performance and Finance and was taking 19 credits most of the time. Obviously the reason for me to be in the US was music so mostly I didn't attend business classes at all unless I was actually required to be there. I'm not saying everyone should do the same thing, but I feel like 12 credits is a reasonable amount of work. If you actually do all the readings etc it will probably keep you busy most of the week, but after all we are students. As blind people we spend a lot of time and energy trying to make others treat us just like everyone else, and I don't think people complaining about 12 credits being too much work are helping much. I completely agree with you: skimming through readings is a lot harder for us, so we either need to read everything and spend more time on it than most people or just try to find other ways to keep important information on our memory. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 5:51 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ignosi, > While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is different. I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. > I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. > It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened to mine so could not take short cuts. > I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in upper level classes. > I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 credits isn't a lot of work. > I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I finished my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business writing. > > I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester including multiple papers. > If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can handle than let grades and mental health suffer. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college > > 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. > That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to > exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >> get a real degree! >> I wasn't going to have that! >> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >> VR. >> I'm getting that degree, next May! >> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >> Good grief! >> That's Rehab for you! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Beth, >>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college >>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell >>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>> of thing? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>> things >>>> back. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: David Andrews >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>> But ... >>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>> they pay >>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>> financial reasons. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>> if I >>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>> what >>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>> apply to >>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>> stupid >>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>> should just >>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>> this in order >>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>> a >>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>> that >>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>> the adaptive >>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>> supervisor know >>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>> college and if >>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>> computer. Because >>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>> failure, you really >>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>> support in >>>> the world. >>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>> you want in >>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>> have a Mac. >>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>> for you. They >>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>> moving >>>> and firm >>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>> have, even >>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>> is >>>> the key and >>>> independence is the way. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Beth >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>> working >>>> computerfor college >>>> >>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>> apps >>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>> assessment >>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>> and >>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>> the >>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>> their >>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>> people >>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 08:20:03 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:20:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-4065664392535140179@unknownmsgid> We can choose how many courses to take just like everyone else. The thing is that apparently rehab won't pay for less than 12 credits. Ghat's how most scholarships work. I remember one semester I forgot to register for classes and my scholarship didn't show up on my bursar account until I reached 12 credit hours. I think most schools have a flat fee that covers anything between 12 and 17 credits, so taking 10 or 11 credits is really not much cheaper than taking 16 credits... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 6:04 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one > person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the > freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Ignosi, >> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is different. >> >> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. >> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened >> to mine so could not take short cuts. >> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in upper >> >> level classes. >> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >> credits isn't a lot of work. >> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I finished >> >> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business >> writing. >> >> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >> including multiple papers. >> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ignasi Cambra >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >> >> college >> >> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>> get a real degree! >>> I wasn't going to have that! >>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>> VR. >>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>> Good grief! >>> That's Rehab for you! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>> college >>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>> tell >>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>> of thing? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>> things >>>>> back. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>> But ... >>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>> they pay >>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>> financial reasons. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>> stupid >>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 08:28:12 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:28:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <4D1790511EB9440BAB00BCC63237CF94@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> <4D1790511EB9440BAB00BCC63237CF94@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <-6331217964198507471@unknownmsgid> I completely agree with Brandon. Trying to relate classes with each other is usually very efficient and fun. Sometimes it can really save you quite a bit of work. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 9:16 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I often found that listening to my books on my Braille+ then going over the chapters a second time on my computer while answering the study guide questions was the best way. > I always read the textbook first thing, except in music theory. I can not stand human voices for some reason. > By the first week I'm usually done with the text book and only have the assignments to worry about. I make sure I know a basic outline for every class, I read every syllabus and make sure I understand everything. > If I get a bad grade on a test, I confront my teacher and ask him what the right answers are. I've often caught teachers in word traps where they said one thing and it could mean two things. They often give me credit for that. > I also often take honors classes, so not only are the teachers the best in the school, but the other students are more motivated in class. I find the atmosphere of the normal classes is really lethargic and the honors classes are always vibrant and full of passion. > Another thing I always try to do is connect the class I'm in to either another class I'm taking or my major. For example, I wrote a paper on Verdi and told how his music influenced the revolt against Napoleon. > I also wrote a business plan in my business class on how much it would cost to become a working performer in my area. > In my speech class, I often told stories about the songs I was singing. Because they were in German, I didn't need to worry about plagiarism. > So being creative is the real key to being a student. It makes life so much more fun and rewarding. Although the educational system suppresses creativity, it's our job to rekindle that most essential part of humanity. > Do schools kill creativity? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Desiree, > We have a choice. 12 credits is the minimum for being full time. Of course, > blind students can go part time taking 6 or 9 credits. But then rehab won't > pay, you'd need another funding source. I took that 12 credits and I felt it > was overwelming at times. I'm really surprised that someone thinks it is not > much work. I had homework everyday and at finals time, I did not get enough > sleep. > A student can take up to 17 credits typically without being overloaded. > Most colleges consider 12-17 credits to be full time. Beyond that, its an > overload and the student is charged extra money. > Three credits is a typical class; some classes are 4 credits if they consist > of lecture and lab. > FYI, one or two credit classes usually are electives and meet once a week. > > I'm certainly glad 12 credits was full time as this was enough for me. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one > person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the > freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Ignosi, >> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is different. >> >> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college years. >> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I listened >> to mine so could not take short cuts. >> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in upper >> >> level classes. >> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >> credits isn't a lot of work. >> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I finished >> >> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and business >> writing. >> >> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >> including multiple papers. >> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ignasi Cambra >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >> >> college >> >> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>> get a real degree! >>> I wasn't going to have that! >>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>> VR. >>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>> Good grief! >>> That's Rehab for you! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>> college >>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>> tell >>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>> of thing? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>> things >>>>> back. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>> But ... >>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>> they pay >>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>> financial reasons. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>> stupid >>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 11:56:30 2012 From: n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com (Shreyas N Reddy) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:26:30 +0530 Subject: [nabs-l] regarding software for graphs & tables Message-ID: hi all hope u all r fine I am Shreyas, a new member of this mailing list I am also blind but had partial sight before & I am resident of India. I became totally blind due to the impairment called RP So, I request to get one help from u all please & I have stated below I am doing my economics, business studies, accounts, subjects & I am doing the 11th grade I am in need of any software which can support graphs & tabulations for blind users without any hindrance & without causing any problem to me So, can u all please share a software which can really help in economics & graphical representation? Please & tell me excluding excel. This software should be exclusively for blind users or some accessibility should be there for blind.I request u all Help would be appreciated I look forward to get response from u all -- in regards Shreyas Nagaraj Reddy From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 12:02:52 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:02:52 +0100 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Message-ID: Please view the document I uploaded for you. Click here Just sign in with your email to view the document. Thanks From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Wed Jul 25 12:47:44 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:47:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] academic status In-Reply-To: <006b01cd6a17$51abd460$f5037d20$@gmail.com> References: <93E3FA6FABEB4FF6B42922A9053584C3@OwnerPC> <006b01cd6a17$51abd460$f5037d20$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCE@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> In Florida the Division of Blind Services will not pay for school if your GPA drops below a 2.0. FAFSA will also not pay if your GPA drops below a 2.0. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:41 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status Does academic probation affect how you are given tuition assistance from your rehab agencies though? Or how do they take these kinds of things? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status Desiree, Not exactly. You are only kicked out of school if you do not raise your GPA in a certain amount of time. You would have to have several Fs for more than one semester to be kicked out. Academic probation means a trial period. It's a warning before you are kicked out. It's a good thing so students who really want to succeed are not just thrown out of school. They are given a trial period to get their grades up. Everyone has hard classes and a bad semester at one time or another. IMO, its pretty easy to fall onto academic probation. you do not even have to fail a class to get it. You can just have Ds and that brings your GPA down enough to be on academic probation. It won't affect your job prospects to have a bad semester or two. But it may affect financial aid. Not sure on that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status Thanks for the information. It was just the way Beth was talking about it that made it sound, at the very least, like she was kicked out of college for being on academic probation. I apologize if that's not the case and I'm totally reading the situation wrong. On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm responding to what Desiree said here. It will clear up confusion > for those who wondered about the term or got scared of it. > Schools have performance standards. Such standards are based on your > Grade point average, GPA. > The deans list is for the top students; at community college deans > list means students who get a 3.5 or over taking at least 6 credits. > > On the opposite side is academic probation if you do not do well a few > semesters. > Desiree said: > "I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this > thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the > law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. " > > Hi, actually, its not too bad; as long as you get off it. Basically it > means you fell below a certain GPA; schools vary what this is. I think > for my school, Marymount university, it was 2.0. What happens is > you're given a warning and you have to raise your GPA within two > semesters. That is all. > It > basically means you need to improve and it's a trial period. I do not > think its on your transcript; only way anyone knows is if they get > your file from them. True, some employers request transcripts, but I > don't think it says academic probation, just your grades for every > class. Although I might clarify that to see that I'm giving correct > info. > > Most students can get off academic probation by studying more, going > to classes regularly and getting extra help such as tutoring. But even > if you drop out or get thrown out of school, you can go back to school > in a year by reapplying. Academic probation has nothing to do with the > police and only way I can see it comprimising a job or interview, is > if the employer looked at every grade and class you took seeing where > you got Ds and Fs. > Most employers though want to see you got a diploma, when you got it, > and when. They don't want to know the specifics. > So, an employer will never know the terrible grade I got in ethics. > Yes I got some bad grades because it was too hard for me. But I did > get a diploma and that is what I can state on my resume and job > interviews. > > Okay, just wanted to clear this up so no one has misinformation what > academic status is. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2 %40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Wed Jul 25 12:50:57 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:50:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community service hours or something. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Koby Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success Arielle, Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at college? Right back soon, Koby. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the > tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic > department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally > signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my > expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, > :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to > help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who > are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no > stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring > center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't > stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that > smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary > in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and > serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students > who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is > struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester > and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should > worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your > school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably > shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. > I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service > where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind > students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor > someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you > in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over > papers or provide general research advice. > And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, > but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract > goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out > if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals > could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as > specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of > blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let > fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range > goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon > some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them > out of your way. > Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds > awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in > class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, > I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with > hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is > something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue > with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind > folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the > sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. > Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it > does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these > things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we > can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these > issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try > a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were > having before? > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co > m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Wed Jul 25 12:56:05 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:56:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers In-Reply-To: <005e01cd69eb$033bbc90$09b335b0$@gmail.com> References: <008301cd6908$c1eaae50$45c00af0$@gmail.com><2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BC5@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <005e01cd69eb$033bbc90$09b335b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BD0@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> No I am not a script writer. I would like script writers to contact me because I require their services. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:24 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers Zumaira, are you a script writer? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wasif, Zunaira Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers Please, contact me off list as well. Maybe you can make some money! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:24 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org; gui-talk at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] script writers Please see below: -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise M Robinson Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:21 PM To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List; NFB Science and Engineering Division List Subject: [nfbcs] script writers If you consider yourself a great script writer and have written scripts for Jaws successfully, please contact me off list. -- *Denise* Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. CEO, TechVision, LLC Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision 509-674-1853 Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." --Chinese Proverb Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond imagination. --Albert Einstein It's kind of fun to do the impossible. --Walt Disney _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2% 40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2 %40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 13:28:09 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 07:28:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid Message-ID: <500ff483.e3d9320a.2ffd.30cf@mx.google.com> This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth From cassonw at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 14:24:42 2012 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:24:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <500ff483.e3d9320a.2ffd.30cf@mx.google.com> References: <500ff483.e3d9320a.2ffd.30cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I think it is extremely unfair to make these statements about loans. While it may be true that some members of our society cannot take out loans for one personal reason or another, or choose not to, does not make them worthless. Loans, especially those offered by the US federal government can be a very useful tool to help afford college expenses. As with financing a car or house, the borrower needs to be aware of their financial situation and likely earning prospects when determining whether to take out loans and if so, how much to borrow. I found the subsidized federal stafford loans helpful for college because I could take out a several thousand dollar loan, that would not accrue interest as long as I was a student. This allowed me to make payments towards it throughout the term as I earned money and make significant dents in it during the summer when I was able to work full time. I am currently a grad student and only have about 2 thousand in loan debt, which I still am not accruing any interest on. Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you out of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost every tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used incorrectly can cause great harm. Bill On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my > GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with > loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap > either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay > the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't > borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for > some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 15:52:07 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:52:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid Message-ID: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma il.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 16:06:17 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:06:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Message-ID: <5010199c.c98fec0a.4148.ffffd63a@mx.google.com> Deb, I think your account's been hacked. ----- Original Message ----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Just sign in with your email to view the document. Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Jul 25 16:19:24 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:19:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <5010199c.c98fec0a.4148.ffffd63a@mx.google.com> References: <5010199c.c98fec0a.4148.ffffd63a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <50101C8C.3010303@tysdomain.com> This was a problem a while back, too. Perhaps the moderator could just moderate this account since it's not getting taken care of? On 7/25/2012 10:06 AM, Sophie Trist wrote: > Deb, I think your account's been hacked. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deb Mendelsohn To: undisclosed-recipients:; > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:02:52 +0100 > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > Please view the document I uploaded for you. > > Click here Just > sign > in with your email to view the document. > > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 25 17:39:21 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:39:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120725103319.01d921c0@comcast.net> Good morning, Beth, How on earth, in addition to paying some kina rent, utility bills etc. and maybe eating something is it responsible to subject oneself to debt by faceless corporations who are usually already bloated with poor people's money, too? Thank you NO! School ain't worth it. Grants or nothing, yawl . 52 AM 7/25/2012, you wrote: >I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For >some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt >if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. >Beth > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bill To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:24:42 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > >I think it is extremely unfair to make these statements about loans. >While it may be true that some members of our society cannot take out >loans for one personal reason or another, or choose not to, does not >make them worthless. Loans, especially those offered by the US >federal government can be a very useful tool to help afford college >expenses. As with financing a car or house, the borrower needs to be >aware of their financial situation and likely earning prospects when >determining whether to take out loans and if so, how much to borrow. >I found the subsidized federal stafford loans helpful for college >because I could take out a several thousand dollar loan, that would >not accrue interest as long as I was a student. This allowed me to >make payments towards it throughout the term as I earned money and >make significant dents in it during the summer when I was able to work >full time. I am currently a grad student and only have about 2 >thousand in loan debt, which I still am not accruing any interest on. >Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other >loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you >out of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost >every tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used >incorrectly can cause great harm. >Bill > >On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Beth wrote: >This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my >GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with >loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap >either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay >the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. >You can't >borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for >some people. >Beth > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma >il.com > > > >-- >Bill Casson >University of New Mexico >M.S. Computer Science >Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 >B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. >(505) 695-1374 >cassonw at gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >se%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From wmodnl at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 17:50:45 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (Wmodnl) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:50:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [Jobs] Joining my sales team and being yourveryown business owner In-Reply-To: References: <04ee01cd69be$da9c9510$8fd5bf30$@blindambitionsgroups.org> Message-ID: Yesterday, I informed you that I would be posting some information for those looking for new opportunities. As blind people, we can use any opportunity that will help us sustain ourselves. Please cross post and distribute to other lists for employment such as the lists for entrepreneurs, etc. Moderators, please excuse this cross-posting. Thank you. It is appreciated. Best wishes, William Date: Thursday, July 26, 2012 Time: 6:45PM. Location: Hilton Double Tree BWI Airport 890 Elkridge Landing Road, Baltimore,(Linthicum) MD 21090 All I "see" are limitless possibilities. On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:15 PM, Wmodnl wrote: > Good afternoon, > Over the next 12 hours, I will bring you all some information on an opportunity in the Baltimore, MD Metropolitan area on Thursday, July 26, 2012. > I strongly advise many in the area to consider attending this free event. Come with an open mind, seeing the possibilities that are available to us as blind individuals. > Thank you and enjoy the rest of your day. > Regards, > William > > All I "see" are limitless possibilities. > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 1:07 PM, "Mark Marvel of Blind Ambitions Groups" wrote: > >> This is completely legal. Multi-level marketing has been put to the test for >> years and passes with flying colors, every time. If people don't like the >> concept, they don't have to do it. This is a free enterprise system and it >> is the choice of the people involved who become successful. Not everyone has >> the intestinal fortitude to do certain jobs, but that could be any job. It >> isn't just this company. How many of you would shovel horse manure in a >> stable every day? Probably not many because of the smell but stable owners >> and horse lovers do it all the time. Some people are meant to be in sales >> and others are meant to shovel manure. Don't let people discourage others >> from doing something they are passionate about even if it isn't your first >> choice. This is what makes America Great. Go for it, Char! >> >> Mark Marvel >> Blind Ambitions Groups >> Mark.marvel at blindambitionsgroups.org >> "We may have lost our sight, but we have not lost our VISION" >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Bryan Schulz >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:45 PM >> To: Jobs for the Blind >> Subject: Re: [Jobs] Joining my sales team and being yourveryown >> businessowner >> >> people doing it can make all the excuses they want but how is that system >> not a type of pyramid scheme? >> Bryan Schulz >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Baracco, Andrew W" >> To: "Jobs for the Blind" >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [Jobs] Joining my sales team and being yourveryown >> businessowner >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Jobs mailing list > Jobs at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 18:11:42 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:11:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <-1485526025526568010@unknownmsgid> Well the idea is that the loan will enable you to go to college, which will eventually help you to be employed and pay back... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Beth wrote: > I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:24:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > I think it is extremely unfair to make these statements about loans. > While it may be true that some members of our society cannot take out > loans for one personal reason or another, or choose not to, does not > make them worthless. Loans, especially those offered by the US > federal government can be a very useful tool to help afford college > expenses. As with financing a car or house, the borrower needs to be > aware of their financial situation and likely earning prospects when > determining whether to take out loans and if so, how much to borrow. > I found the subsidized federal stafford loans helpful for college > because I could take out a several thousand dollar loan, that would > not accrue interest as long as I was a student. This allowed me to > make payments towards it throughout the term as I earned money and > make significant dents in it during the summer when I was able to work > full time. I am currently a grad student and only have about 2 > thousand in loan debt, which I still am not accruing any interest on. > Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other > loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you > out of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost > every tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used > incorrectly can cause great harm. > Bill > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my > GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with > loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap > either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay > the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't > borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for > some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma > il.com > > > > -- > Bill Casson > University of New Mexico > M.S. Computer Science > Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 > B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. > (505) 695-1374 > cassonw at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Jul 25 18:18:24 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber R. ) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:18:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <06A94CEA-1D3E-49D2-9313-912C9F1131B5@muohio.edu> Have you considered being a music therapist? Just a thought. Amber On Jul 24, 2012, at 8:56 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi Joshua, > I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would > really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. > For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing > how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's > standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in > that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel > comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with > witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep > things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to > playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, > and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only > can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make > your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of > those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally > large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that > way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio > station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading > services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the > controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone > was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and > things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 > seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would > be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or > cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I > said, I'm not good at thinking fast. > Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college > education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that > purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I > appreciate the suggestion, though. > > On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Hi, Desiree. >> You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school >> years, and you also play the guitar. >> Why not major in music? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> Desiree, >>> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >>> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >>> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >>> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >>> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >>> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >>> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >>> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >>> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >>> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Beth, >>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>> college >>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>> tell >>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>> of thing? >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>> things >>>>> back. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: David Andrews >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>> But ... >>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>> they pay >>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>> financial reasons. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>> if I >>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>> what >>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>> apply to >>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>> stupid >>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>> should just >>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>> this in order >>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>> a >>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>> that >>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>> the adaptive >>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>> supervisor know >>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>> college and if >>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>> computer. Because >>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>> failure, you really >>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>> support in >>>>> the world. >>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>> you want in >>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>> have a Mac. >>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>> for you. They >>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>> moving >>>>> and firm >>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>> have, even >>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>> is >>>>> the key and >>>>> independence is the way. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>> working >>>>> computerfor college >>>>> >>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>> apps >>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>> assessment >>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>> and >>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>> the >>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>> their >>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>> people >>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Wed Jul 25 18:26:06 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:26:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120725103319.01d921c0@comcast.net> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120725103319.01d921c0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BD9@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I heard, and I'm not sure about this, but if your disabled FAFSA may forgive the lones you owe after completing school. In other words, you may not have to pay them back. Again, I'm not sure about this. Someone at financial aid for one of my client's told me that. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly Mihalakis Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid Good morning, Beth, How on earth, in addition to paying some kina rent, utility bills etc. and maybe eating something is it responsible to subject oneself to debt by faceless corporations who are usually already bloated with poor people's money, too? Thank you NO! School ain't worth it. Grants or nothing, yawl . 52 AM 7/25/2012, you wrote: >I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some >people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm >unemployed for a while and on SSI. >Beth > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bill To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > >I think it is extremely unfair to make these statements about loans. >While it may be true that some members of our society cannot take out >loans for one personal reason or another, or choose not to, does not >make them worthless. Loans, especially those offered by the US federal >government can be a very useful tool to help afford college expenses. >As with financing a car or house, the borrower needs to be aware of >their financial situation and likely earning prospects when determining >whether to take out loans and if so, how much to borrow. >I found the subsidized federal stafford loans helpful for college >because I could take out a several thousand dollar loan, that would not >accrue interest as long as I was a student. This allowed me to make >payments towards it throughout the term as I earned money and make >significant dents in it during the summer when I was able to work full >time. I am currently a grad student and only have about 2 thousand in >loan debt, which I still am not accruing any interest on. >Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other >loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you out >of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost every >tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used incorrectly >can cause great harm. >Bill > >On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Beth wrote: >This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my >GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with >loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap >either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't >pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. >You can't >borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth >for some people. >Beth > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma >il.com > > > >-- >Bill Casson >University of New Mexico >M.S. Computer Science >Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 >B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. >(505) 695-1374 >cassonw at gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >se%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast. >net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 19:27:16 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:27:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <74CE65762DBD41FA99D90A8A2F7C8AD2@OwnerPC> Beth, I think Bill had a good point. While rehab should pay for school if its your goal, loans are a way to pay for tuition. You might look into it if rehab won't cooperate. Its all in how you use them To quote him "Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you out of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost every tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used incorrectly can cause great harm." That is true. My in laws took out loans. You can repay it if you work after college. There is no reason why a blind person couldn't do this, same way other students do. I believe saying there is so much debt is just an excuse. If you take that approach with loans, it will be hard to get far in life. You need a loan for a house, called a mortgage. You need loans for a lot of stuff. That is just life. I also think its unfair to give loans a bad wrap because they work for many students. Also, I am not on SSI, so I do not know the rules on working. But if I were you, I'd work on the side to have extra money. You sound like you need money. Things like babysitting, walking pets, or working as a part time receptionist can help you out. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma il.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 19:38:15 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:38:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <74CE65762DBD41FA99D90A8A2F7C8AD2@OwnerPC> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> <74CE65762DBD41FA99D90A8A2F7C8AD2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <008401cd6a9d$0a4de820$1ee9b860$@gmail.com> But did you know that American students owe trillions of dollars in debt for student loans? that is too much debt! I don't want to get on loans because I don't want to be one of them! But to each his own. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid Beth, I think Bill had a good point. While rehab should pay for school if its your goal, loans are a way to pay for tuition. You might look into it if rehab won't cooperate. Its all in how you use them To quote him "Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you out of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost every tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used incorrectly can cause great harm." That is true. My in laws took out loans. You can repay it if you work after college. There is no reason why a blind person couldn't do this, same way other students do. I believe saying there is so much debt is just an excuse. If you take that approach with loans, it will be hard to get far in life. You need a loan for a house, called a mortgage. You need loans for a lot of stuff. That is just life. I also think its unfair to give loans a bad wrap because they work for many students. Also, I am not on SSI, so I do not know the rules on working. But if I were you, I'd work on the side to have extra money. You sound like you need money. Things like babysitting, walking pets, or working as a part time receptionist can help you out. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma il.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 19:59:59 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:59:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: <06A94CEA-1D3E-49D2-9313-912C9F1131B5@muohio.edu> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> <06A94CEA-1D3E-49D2-9313-912C9F1131B5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: No, not really. I suppose it's an option, but any kind of "therapist" probably has to have a PHD. No offense, but I don't think I can go through 10 more years of school. 4? Maybe. 10? No way. On 7/25/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: > Have you considered being a music therapist? > > Just a thought. > > Amber > > > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 8:56 PM, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > >> Hi Joshua, >> I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would >> really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. >> For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing >> how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's >> standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in >> that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel >> comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with >> witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep >> things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to >> playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, >> and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only >> can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make >> your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of >> those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally >> large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that >> way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio >> station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading >> services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the >> controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone >> was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and >> things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 >> seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would >> be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or >> cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I >> said, I'm not good at thinking fast. >> Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college >> education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that >> purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I >> appreciate the suggestion, though. >> >> On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Hi, Desiree. >>> You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school >>> years, and you also play the guitar. >>> Why not major in music? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> Desiree, >>>> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >>>> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >>>> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >>>> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >>>> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >>>> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >>>> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >>>> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >>>> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >>>> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>> college >>>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>>> tell >>>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>> of thing? >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>> things >>>>>> back. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>> But ... >>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>> they pay >>>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>>> financial reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>> if I >>>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>>> what >>>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>>> apply to >>>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>> stupid >>>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>> should just >>>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>>> this in order >>>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>>> a >>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>>> that >>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>>> the adaptive >>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>> supervisor know >>>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>>> college and if >>>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>>> computer. Because >>>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>>> failure, you really >>>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>>> support in >>>>>> the world. >>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>> you want in >>>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>>> have a Mac. >>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>> for you. They >>>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>>> moving >>>>>> and firm >>>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>>> have, even >>>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>>> is >>>>>> the key and >>>>>> independence is the way. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>> working >>>>>> computerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>> apps >>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>> assessment >>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>>> and >>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>>> the >>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>>> their >>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>> people >>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 20:04:42 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:04:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] academic status In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCE@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <93E3FA6FABEB4FF6B42922A9053584C3@OwnerPC> <006b01cd6a17$51abd460$f5037d20$@gmail.com> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCE@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: I think that's probably on a national level. Here in PA, you have to maintain a 2.0 GPA as well for rehab to keep paying for your education. On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > In Florida the Division of Blind Services will not pay for school if > your GPA drops below a 2.0. FAFSA will also not pay if your GPA drops > below a 2.0. > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Humberto Avila > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:41 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status > > Does academic probation affect how you are given tuition assistance from > your rehab agencies though? Or how do they take these kinds of things? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:28 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status > > Desiree, > Not exactly. You are only kicked out of school if you do not raise your > GPA in a certain amount of time. > You would have to have several Fs for more than one semester to be > kicked out. > Academic probation means a trial period. It's a warning before you are > kicked out. > It's a good thing so students who really want to succeed are not just > thrown > > out of school. They are given a trial period to get their grades up. > Everyone has hard classes and a bad semester at one time or another. > IMO, its pretty easy to fall onto academic probation. you do not even > have to fail a class to get it. You can just have Ds and that brings > your GPA down enough to be on academic probation. > > It won't affect your job prospects to have a bad semester or two. But it > may > > affect financial aid. Not sure on that. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] academic status > > Thanks for the information. It was just the way Beth was talking about > it that made it sound, at the very least, like she was kicked out of > college for being on academic probation. I apologize if that's not the > case and I'm totally reading the situation wrong. > > On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm responding to what Desiree said here. It will clear up confusion >> for those who wondered about the term or got scared of it. >> Schools have performance standards. Such standards are based on your >> Grade point average, GPA. >> The deans list is for the top students; at community college deans >> list means students who get a 3.5 or over taking at least 6 credits. >> >> On the opposite side is academic probation if you do not do well a few > >> semesters. >> Desiree said: >> "I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading this >> thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of the >> law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as well. " >> >> Hi, actually, its not too bad; as long as you get off it. Basically it > >> means you fell below a certain GPA; schools vary what this is. I think > >> for my school, Marymount university, it was 2.0. What happens is >> you're given a warning and you have to raise your GPA within two >> semesters. That is all. >> It >> basically means you need to improve and it's a trial period. I do not > >> think its on your transcript; only way anyone knows is if they get >> your file from them. True, some employers request transcripts, but I >> don't think it says academic probation, just your grades for every >> class. Although I might clarify that to see that I'm giving correct >> info. >> >> Most students can get off academic probation by studying more, going >> to classes regularly and getting extra help such as tutoring. But even > >> if you drop out or get thrown out of school, you can go back to school > >> in a year by reapplying. Academic probation has nothing to do with the > >> police and only way I can see it comprimising a job or interview, is >> if the employer looked at every grade and class you took seeing where >> you got Ds and Fs. >> Most employers though want to see you got a diploma, when you got it, > >> and when. They don't want to know the specifics. >> So, an employer will never know the terrible grade I got in ethics. >> Yes I got some bad grades because it was too hard for me. But I did >> get a diploma and that is what I can state on my resume and job >> interviews. >> >> Okay, just wanted to clear this up so no one has misinformation what >> academic status is. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.co > m >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2 > %40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 20:09:18 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:09:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: <5010199c.c98fec0a.4148.ffffd63a@mx.google.com> References: <5010199c.c98fec0a.4148.ffffd63a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I suggest just deleting and writing her off list about this. -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT Deb, I think your account's been hacked. ----- Original Message ----- From: Deb Mendelsohn Just sign in with your email to view the document. Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 20:15:51 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:15:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT In-Reply-To: References: <5010199c.c98fec0a.4148.ffffd63a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3F73ECEA-E4D7-4D58-96FB-5C8FCE1871AD@gmail.com> "Just sign in with your email to view the document"? seriously? no offense but are people really that ignorant? On Jul 25, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I suggest just deleting and writing her off list about this. > > > -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > Deb, I think your account's been hacked. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deb Mendelsohn To: undisclosed-recipients:; > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:02:52 +0100 > Subject: [nabs-l] IMPORTANT DOCUMENT > > Please view the document I uploaded for you. > > Click here > Just sign > in with your email to view the document. > > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 25 20:45:49 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:45:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> <06A94CEA-1D3E-49D2-9313-912C9F1131B5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Desiree. You mentioned wanting to be a DJ. I can help you with that. E-mail me and we'll discuss this off list! Thanks, Joshua On 7/25/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > No, not really. I suppose it's an option, but any kind of "therapist" > probably has to have a PHD. No offense, but I don't think I can go > through 10 more years of school. 4? Maybe. 10? No way. > > On 7/25/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Have you considered being a music therapist? >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Amber >> >> >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 8:56 PM, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Joshua, >>> I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would >>> really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. >>> For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing >>> how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's >>> standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in >>> that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel >>> comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with >>> witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep >>> things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to >>> playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, >>> and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only >>> can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make >>> your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of >>> those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally >>> large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that >>> way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio >>> station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading >>> services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the >>> controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone >>> was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and >>> things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 >>> seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would >>> be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or >>> cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I >>> said, I'm not good at thinking fast. >>> Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college >>> education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that >>> purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I >>> appreciate the suggestion, though. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Hi, Desiree. >>>> You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school >>>> years, and you also play the guitar. >>>> Why not major in music? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> Desiree, >>>>> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >>>>> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >>>>> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >>>>> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >>>>> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >>>>> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >>>>> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >>>>> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >>>>> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >>>>> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really >>>>>> don't >>>>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back >>>>>> then. >>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>>> college >>>>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> back. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>> they pay >>>>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>>>> financial reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>> if I >>>>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>>>> apply to >>>>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>> stupid >>>>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>> should just >>>>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>>>> this in order >>>>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>>>> the adaptive >>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>> supervisor know >>>>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>>>> college and if >>>>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>>>> computer. Because >>>>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>>>> failure, you really >>>>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>>>> support in >>>>>>> the world. >>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>> you want in >>>>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>>>> have a Mac. >>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>> for you. They >>>>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>>>> moving >>>>>>> and firm >>>>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>>>> have, even >>>>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the key and >>>>>>> independence is the way. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> working >>>>>>> computerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>> apps >>>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>> assessment >>>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 20:51:37 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:51:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <-7291667643598787699@unknownmsgid> <06A94CEA-1D3E-49D2-9313-912C9F1131B5@muohio.edu> Message-ID: <2474258209966215415@unknownmsgid> You certainly don't need a PHD to be a music therapist... Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > No, not really. I suppose it's an option, but any kind of "therapist" > probably has to have a PHD. No offense, but I don't think I can go > through 10 more years of school. 4? Maybe. 10? No way. > > On 7/25/12, Herrin, Amber R. wrote: >> Have you considered being a music therapist? >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Amber >> >> >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 8:56 PM, Desiree Oudinot >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Joshua, >>> I thought of that, but there's nothing in the music field that I would >>> really want to do. I certainly would not want to be a music teacher. >>> For one thing, with the experiences I've had with teachers, and seeing >>> how much teachers have to bend over backwards to meet the government's >>> standards and do nothing more or less, I would never feel right in >>> that field. I thought about being a deejay, but I wouldn't feel >>> comfortable having to rotate the same top 40. Plus, I'm not quick with >>> witty responses and things as radio personalities have to be to keep >>> things interesting. If you didn't have to be totally limited to >>> playing a specific set of songs no matter what station you worked at, >>> and if you didn't have to make this ridiculous schedule where you only >>> can talk for 20 seconds before a commercial break and have to make >>> your playlists a day in advance, I would think about it. I'm one of >>> those people who has a huge appreciation for music, and an equally >>> large collection spanning all different genres. Limiting myself that >>> way would be suffocating. I do know a bit about working in a radio >>> station. When I was 16, I actually worked at one of those reading >>> services for the blind. My responsibility was to make sure the >>> controls were operating properly, switch the mics over when someone >>> was reading, and to play tapes with tv guides and special features and >>> things. When I had the floor, so to speak, I had anywhere from 20-30 >>> seconds to announce what would be coming next before commercials would >>> be automatically broadcast. I found that I always cut it too close or >>> cut off the beginning of the first commercial altogether because, as I >>> said, I'm not good at thinking fast. >>> Other than being a musician, which IMO doesn't require a college >>> education, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have one for that >>> purpose either, I can't think of any music-related professions. I >>> appreciate the suggestion, though. >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> Hi, Desiree. >>>> You told me in an E-mail, that you sang in choirs during your school >>>> years, and you also play the guitar. >>>> Why not major in music? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> Desiree, >>>>> I don't want to say anything about your particular case because as you >>>>> said wwe don't know you and I'm sure you've been through a lot. But >>>>> please don't keep this idea of college being some sort of zoo filled >>>>> with wild violent students. I guess there are many colleges in many >>>>> places, but most universities aren't like that and actually provide >>>>> you with enough resources to do well, even if you didn't receive the >>>>> best high school education. If you pick a major that's not related to >>>>> math you really won't have much trouble, because believe it or not you >>>>> won't be expected to know much about math when taking whatever low >>>>> level cclass that they require everyone to take. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Desiree Oudinot >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>>> college >>>>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> back. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>> they pay >>>>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>>>> financial reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>> if I >>>>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>>>> apply to >>>>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>> stupid >>>>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>> should just >>>>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>>>> this in order >>>>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>>>> the adaptive >>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>> supervisor know >>>>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>>>> college and if >>>>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>>>> computer. Because >>>>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>>>> failure, you really >>>>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>>>> support in >>>>>>> the world. >>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>> you want in >>>>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>>>> have a Mac. >>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>> for you. They >>>>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>>>> moving >>>>>>> and firm >>>>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>>>> have, even >>>>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the key and >>>>>>> independence is the way. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> working >>>>>>> computerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>> apps >>>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>> assessment >>>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Wed Jul 25 21:15:42 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:15:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <-1485526025526568010@unknownmsgid> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> <-1485526025526568010@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120725141425.01dc1d80@comcast.net> Good afternoon, Listm, Nice premise but how often does that plan not materialize, and a person is thrown into debt? Good idea yet, not entirely practical! >Well the idea is that the loan will enable you to go to college, which >will eventually help you to be employed and pay back... > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jul 25, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Beth wrote: > > > I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For > some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt > if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. > > Beth > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:24:42 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > > > I think it is extremely unfair to make these statements about loans. > > While it may be true that some members of our society cannot take out > > loans for one personal reason or another, or choose not to, does not > > make them worthless. Loans, especially those offered by the US > > federal government can be a very useful tool to help afford college > > expenses. As with financing a car or house, the borrower needs to be > > aware of their financial situation and likely earning prospects when > > determining whether to take out loans and if so, how much to borrow. > > I found the subsidized federal stafford loans helpful for college > > because I could take out a several thousand dollar loan, that would > > not accrue interest as long as I was a student. This allowed me to > > make payments towards it throughout the term as I earned money and > > make significant dents in it during the summer when I was able to work > > full time. I am currently a grad student and only have about 2 > > thousand in loan debt, which I still am not accruing any interest on. > > Loans are how most students afford college, and just like any other > > loan, such as a mortgage, be a wise borrower will probably keep you > > out of trouble. Loans are just another tool in life, and like almost > > every tool, if used correctly can be a great help, but if used > > incorrectly can cause great harm. > > Bill > > > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Beth wrote: > > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my > > GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with > > loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap > > either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay > > the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't > > borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for > > some people. > > Beth > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma > > il.com > > > > > > > > -- > > Bill Casson > > University of New Mexico > > M.S. Computer Science > > Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 > > B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. > > (505) 695-1374 > > cassonw at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > > se%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 21:31:56 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <500ff483.e3d9320a.2ffd.30cf@mx.google.com> References: <500ff483.e3d9320a.2ffd.30cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't > pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay > for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and > government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because > some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back > because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow > money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth > for some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 21:46:23 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:46:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid Message-ID: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: josh gregory wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 22:02:50 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:02:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> References: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3AD1C66ED26E437A8FE0BC25A42F2DF3@OwnerPC> I see. So your religious beliefs prevent you from using student loans. Well, then you better hope rehab comes through or you get grants. This is a personal belief of yours and does not make loans worth crap, as you put it. I agree students get in too much debt, but unfortunately, that is the way it is now and you can still pay for college this way, even though its unfair. I know people who did it. Anyway, I hope things work out for you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: josh gregory wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:03:06 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:03:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> References: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars > in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. > Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans > accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college > who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for > it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because > he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and > is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. > Thanks. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: josh gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't > pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay > for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and > government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because > some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back > because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow > money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth > for some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 25 22:10:29 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:10:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <3AD1C66ED26E437A8FE0BC25A42F2DF3@OwnerPC> References: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> <3AD1C66ED26E437A8FE0BC25A42F2DF3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Beth, even Christians teach against being in too much debt. This isn't the list for this discussion but I'll show you what Jesus said about it. "Owe no man nothing, but to love him." In this verse, Jesus tells us not to get ourselves in a debt, that we can't pay back. I don't use this verse to preach against getting student loans though. This is why I won't use a credit card, (hence the accessible currency discussion on a different thread.) Blessings, Joshua On 7/25/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I see. So your religious beliefs prevent you from using student loans. > Well, then you better hope rehab comes through or you get grants. > This is a personal belief of yours and does not make > loans worth crap, as you put it. > > I agree students get in too much debt, but unfortunately, that is the way it > > is now and you can still pay for college this way, even though its unfair. I > > know people who did it. > > Anyway, I hope things work out for you. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars > in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. > Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans > accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college > who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for > it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because > he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and > is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. > Thanks. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: josh gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't > pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay > for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and > government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because > some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back > because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow > money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth > for some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 25 22:12:22 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:12:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: References: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: You know, that some go to extremes. This isn't the religion discussion list, but I'm tired of people using that as an excuse. Sounds like people using religion to not take their child to the doctor. Blessings, Joshua On 7/25/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That > doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: >> Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars >> in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. >> Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans >> accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college >> who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for >> it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because >> he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and >> is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. >> Thanks. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: josh gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid >> >> Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? >> >> On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: >> This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't >> pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay >> for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and >> government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because >> some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back >> because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow >> money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth >> for some people. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:17:57 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:17:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Message-ID: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria> Hi all, Does anyone know if there is a list for TVI's in the NFB? Thanks From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:32:01 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:32:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Trainning Message-ID: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could direct me to the TVI list serve in the NFB? I went to the cite and tried serching for this list but had no luck. Thanks From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 22:40:09 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:40:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: References: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8B7B32C62F884B0F9CA677721246065E@OwnerPC> Josh, I agree. All I'll say is I know Christians, Muslims and jews who use credit cards, mortgages, and student loans. You don't have to acrue mass debt to use them. Perhaps you all need a lesson in how loans work! I am no expert, but I do know if you pay off your mortgage and credit cards, you have a good credit score and do not get in debt. Those people who get in mass debt overspend and only pay the minimum amount of credit each month. If you pay off your credit card balance every month, you are fine. No debt! A debit card is used to electronically take out money from an account immediately. A credit card can be sort of like a debit card if you pay it off. That is what my brother does and its fine. What I mean is if you spend 50 dollars a month, instead of paying the minimum of say 15 dollars, you write the credit card company a check for $50. So then no debt. Joshua lester, I think you will change your mind soon. Do you realize that to get an apartment or house, you need a good credit rating. You cannot get credit history without a credit card. There are three credit bureaus who check credit history. When you get out on your own, you will find it difficult to find rent or housing or other big services without a credit history; your parents will have to co sign for you or another person with good credit history will cosign. Religion has nothing to do with loans or credit! Okay, how you spend your money may be a religious decission, like I donate to religious charities, but religion does not impact loan decissions. People need a finance lesson and I don't think schools teach this enough. I think they should so people don't have ideas like this. I hope this helps. Ashley Now, back to student loans. I am wondering just how they work. What is the interest rate on them? -----Original Message----- From: josh gregory Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars > in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. > Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans > accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college > who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for > it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because > he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and > is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. > Thanks. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: josh gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't > pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay > for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and > government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because > some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back > because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow > money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth > for some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 22:40:55 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:40:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI In-Reply-To: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria> References: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria> Message-ID: <9E2B0A5B94F1479392C677C4017AC63A@OwnerPC> there is; its called pibe-division. -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Hi all, Does anyone know if there is a list for TVI's in the NFB? Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:44:18 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:44:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI References: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria> <9E2B0A5B94F1479392C677C4017AC63A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Thanks, but wher do I find this? I went to the cite and serched for lists but got nothing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] TVI > there is; its called pibe-division. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] TVI > > Hi all, > Does anyone know if there is a list for TVI's in the NFB? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jul 25 22:45:23 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:45:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <8B7B32C62F884B0F9CA677721246065E@OwnerPC> References: <5010694a.c4173c0a.36c4.2a27@mx.google.com> <8B7B32C62F884B0F9CA677721246065E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Dave Ramsey deals with all of this in his "Financial Peace University" program. Blessings, Joshua On 7/25/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Josh, > I agree. All I'll say is I know Christians, Muslims and jews who use credit > > cards, mortgages, and student loans. > You don't have to acrue mass debt to use them. Perhaps you all need a > lesson in how loans work! I am no expert, but I do know if you pay off your > > mortgage and credit cards, you have a good credit score and do not get in > debt. Those > people who get in mass debt overspend and only pay the minimum amount of > credit each month. If you pay off > your credit card balance every month, you are fine. No debt! > A debit card is used to electronically take out money from an account > immediately. A credit card can be sort of like a debit card if you pay it > off. That is what my brother does and its fine. What I mean is if you spend > > 50 dollars a month, instead of paying the minimum of say 15 dollars, you > write the credit card company a check for $50. > > So then no debt. > > Joshua lester, I think you > will change your mind soon. Do you realize that to get an apartment or > house, you need a good credit rating. You cannot get credit history without > > a credit card. There are three credit bureaus who check credit history. > When you get out on your own, you will find it difficult to find rent or > housing or other big services without a credit history; your parents will > have to co sign for you or another person with good credit history will > cosign. > > Religion has nothing to do with loans or credit! > Okay, how you spend your money may be a religious decission, like I donate > > to religious charities, but religion does not impact loan decissions. > > People need a finance lesson and I don't think schools teach this enough. > I think they should so people don't have ideas like this. > I hope this helps. > > Ashley > > Now, back to student loans. I am wondering just how they work. What is the > interest rate on them? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: josh gregory > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That > doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: >> Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars >> in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. >> Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans >> accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college >> who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for >> it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because >> he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and >> is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. >> Thanks. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: josh gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid >> >> Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? >> >> On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: >> This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't >> pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay >> for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and >> government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because >> some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back >> because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow >> money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth >> for some people. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:47:46 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:47:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi, Maybe I should have been a little clearer. What I mean is, students who only receive SSI and have no secondary funding sources such as parents are going to have to take that 12 or more credits because rehab is the only way they'll get through college without being buried up to their heads in unnecessary debt. I'm one of those people. I have enough stress in my life without worrying about debt, because if and when it ever comes time for me to raise a family, I don't still want to have to pay that off while trying to raise my kids. There's no guarantee in this economy for employment. It has absolutely nothing to do with blindness, just common sense, most people are struggling right now with the way things are. I wouldn't expect my parents to help pay for my education even if they could afford it, because I'm not that selfish, nor do I expect handouts. But I do know that if rehab pays for it, I'm not a special case, and they can put whatever rules in place they need to to make it fair for everyone. My counselor said that 12 credits is the minimum requirement. He said that if I felt I could take more than that, more power to me. I guess I'm just questioning if I can really jump in and start with 12 credits. So what I meant by the fact that sighted students can choose is, if they want to start out by taking a class or two at a community college, they can. Community colleges don't charge that much, and if they have a job, they can most likely pay out of pocket. For someone who only has SSI, even that's not practical. That's where we're limited in our freedom of choice. We must take all or nothing, or forge our own path that doesn't involve rehab. On 7/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do > sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load > is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students > don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and > student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. > Arielle > > On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? >> >> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Ignosi, >>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>> different. >>> >>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>> years. >>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>> listened >>> to mine so could not take short cuts. >>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in >>> upper >>> >>> level classes. >>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >>> credits isn't a lot of work. >>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>> finished >>> >>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >>> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and >>> business >>> writing. >>> >>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >>> including multiple papers. >>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >>> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>> >>> college >>> >>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >>> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education >>>> certificate. >>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>>> get a real degree! >>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>>> VR. >>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>> Good grief! >>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>> Beth, >>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>> college >>>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>>> tell >>>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>> of thing? >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>> things >>>>>> back. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>> But ... >>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>> they pay >>>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>>> financial reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>> if I >>>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>>> what >>>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>>> apply to >>>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>> stupid >>>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>> should just >>>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>>> this in order >>>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>>> a >>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>>> that >>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>>> the adaptive >>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>> supervisor know >>>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>>> college and if >>>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>>> computer. Because >>>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>>> failure, you really >>>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>>> support in >>>>>> the world. >>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>> you want in >>>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>>> have a Mac. >>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>> for you. They >>>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>>> moving >>>>>> and firm >>>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>>> have, even >>>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>>> is >>>>>> the key and >>>>>> independence is the way. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>> working >>>>>> computerfor college >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>> apps >>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>> assessment >>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>>> and >>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>>> the >>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>>> their >>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>> people >>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From missheather at comcast.net Wed Jul 25 22:48:28 2012 From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:48:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F7692A9DEA14150A8F4611342BB4F11@HeatherAcer> Hello Gloria, There are two places where you can find information on teachers of the blind in the NFB. One is the listserv for blind educators. Its title is, The National Organization Of Blind Educators. The majority of the people who subscribe are blind, and do not all necessarily teach blind children. Some are blind teachers in who teach sighted children in preschools and elementary schools. Others teach sighted students in middle and high schools. Still other teach blind children, or work in adult rehabilitation centres where they teach blind adults. The other listserv is the Professionals In Blindness Education division. Many of those who subscribe to this listserv are teachers of the blind, though not all. This is because it is open to all professionals who work in the field of blindness education. Furthermore, this division is not specifically for professionals who are blind, so not all list members are blind. Indeed, there are numerous sighted teachers of the blind. You can also find The Professionals In Blindness Education on the website where you sign up for these lists. www.nfbnet.org I hope this has been helpful. Regards, Heather I hope this helps. -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Trainning Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could direct me to the TVI list serve in the NFB? I went to the cite and tried serching for this list but had no luck. Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:58:22 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:58:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Training References: <7F7692A9DEA14150A8F4611342BB4F11@HeatherAcer> Message-ID: <2C89E4010EDB4A45A07927732F7FC0A1@Gloria> Thank you very much! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] TVI Training > Hello Gloria, > There are two places where you can find information on teachers of the > blind in the NFB. One is the listserv for blind educators. Its title is, > The National Organization Of Blind Educators. > The majority of the people who subscribe are blind, and do not all > necessarily teach blind children. Some are blind teachers in who teach > sighted children in preschools and elementary schools. Others teach > sighted students in middle and high schools. Still other teach blind > children, or work in adult rehabilitation centres where they teach blind > adults. > > The other listserv is the Professionals In Blindness Education division. > Many of those who subscribe to this listserv are teachers of the blind, > though not all. This is because it is open to all professionals who work > in the field of blindness education. Furthermore, this division is not > specifically for professionals who are blind, so not all list members are > blind. Indeed, there are numerous sighted teachers of the blind. > > You can also find The Professionals In Blindness Education on the website > where you sign up for these lists. > www.nfbnet.org > I hope this has been helpful. > Regards, > Heather > > I hope this helps. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] TVI Trainning > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone could direct me to the TVI list serve in the > NFB? I went to the cite and tried serching for this list but had no luck. > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 23:13:04 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:13:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, I respect your opinion. I am also on SSI, currently unemployed and a fulltime student. While I took a break from school I had to start repaying my loans. If loans are misused or abuses then they can become evil, but if a student takes out what they need and pays back what they can when they can if can be a helpful tool toward success. Even though it can be said job prospects are weak, I'd rather take the chance of receiving an education in the hopes that in the end my hard work will pay off. Just my opinions -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma il.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 26 01:32:31 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:32:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Message-ID: Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Return to index Description: A group picture of the participants and their robo The participants and their robots. Description: A robot on a table makes its way between barriers A robot navigating the maze. Description: A teenage girl sits at a laptop and programs comma Programming the robot. Description: A computer screen shows various commands that the Commands that have been programmed. Description: Several students look on as a robot begins its att A robot getting ready to knock over some obstacles. People with college degrees tend to earn about twice as much money as people who don't finish college. And people who major in Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (often called the "STEM" fields) make even more and have an easier time finding jobs. The key is making sure that young people with disabilities get access to good STEM jobs. In order to make that a reality, on June 21st, the World Institute on Disability (WID), in collaboration with WizKidz and Georgia Tech's Human-Automation Systems Lab (HumAnS), hosted an ARoPability Workshop (that's short for "Accessible Robotic Programming for Students with Visual Impairments") at the Ed Roberts Campus in Berkeley, California. Access to technology is especially important for people with disabilities, because they often are early adopters of technology and benefit disproportionately from it. However, they have also been largely left out of the development of that technology and the benefits of having those good STEM jobs. This workshop was designed to introduce young people to the opportunities available to them by allowing them to creatively explore options that may seem impossible and be a part of the tech sector, not just as users, but as engineers and developers. By teaching kids how to operate robots, this day long event made science and technology fun, engaging, and real. The Junior Blind of America and LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired recruited ten Bay Area teenagers between the ages of 14 and 19 with visual impairments or blindness to participate. They were divided into 5 teams of 2 students each who would work together to program and operate their robots. Three graduate students from Georgia Tech led the WhizKids-designed program, first introducing the participants to their Lego NXT robots and laptop computers and then beginning to teach them how they worked. The way you control these robots is by writing software code on your computer and then connecting the robot to your computer via the USB port. The code you write is then transferred to the robot and it performs whatever actions you programmed. So, the leaders of this workshop taught the students how to program their robots to do things like walk forward 10 centimeters, turn left or right, and how many degrees they should turn. There were two big keys to making this work for this particular group of students. The first was that Georgia Tech's HumAnS lab had adapted Lego software to work with JAWS, a popular screen-reading program that helps blind people use Windows software, and with magnification software that helps people with visual impairments get a very close up view of what is on their screens. By doing this, they took the Lego software, which was inaccessible, and made it into an exciting tool that these young people could use. The second big key was that they had adapted Nintendo Wii controllers to give the students tactile feedback for whatever their robots did. So, whenever the robots went forward or backward, left or right, or even when they bumped into something, the Wii controllers would vibrate in certain ways, letting the young programmers know exactly what had happened! Once the students had a grasp of how to program commands into their robots, it was time for the games to begin. First, they had to program their robots to navigate a maze with wooden blocks. To do this, they initially "watched" as the workshop facilitator had his pre-programmed robot go through the maze. As the robot went, on each team one teammate would feel the vibrations the robot communicated to the Wii controller and tell the other teammate what the robot was doing. The other teammate would take notes and try to program their own robot to do the same thing. No team made it through the maze on their first try, but by the second or third try, most had it figured out! Then they played "Kick the Can," where they had to figure out ways to program their robots to knock over a bunch of water bottles and other barriers scattered around a table. The challenge here was to figure out how to program the robot such that it would cover the highest percentage possible of the table's surface to find the objects they had to "kick," but without falling off. For example, some programmed their robots to methodically go back and forwards across the table, as though their robots were mowing a big football field, while another team had their robot go in a spiral, slowly but steadily creeping outwards and pushing over everything in its path. In this way, the basic principles of computer programming and engineering were introduced to these 10 students. As Kat Zigmont, one of the WID employees who organized the event put it, "The best thing about the day was that before the workshop began, none of the students had done any computer programming, but by the end, all were confident that it was something they could learn and they hoped to learn more!" WID will continue doing these types of workshops, so that more and more young people with all types of disabilities can become more involved in STEM fields. Check out the WID website for more information about this and other WID programs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 64a9f6.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 41587 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 64aa44.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 01:32:12 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:32:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI In-Reply-To: References: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria><9E2B0A5B94F1479392C677C4017AC63A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4E3C60F3B8FC4ACFAF1F3BF393DD5080@OwnerPC> on the nfbnet website. click on join lists and you get a list of them. just arrow down and click on one you want. -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] TVI Thanks, but wher do I find this? I went to the cite and serched for lists but got nothing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] TVI > there is; its called pibe-division. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] TVI > > Hi all, > Does anyone know if there is a list for TVI's in the NFB? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 01:39:55 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:39:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: References: <50101641.c3de320a.4fe9.43da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <080D8871C9F94156A80C6D801376E159@OwnerPC> Anjelina, exactly, good post. I'm sure you will have an awesome job with that social work degree. It’s a risk. You will have to have a job to repay loans, but risk is part of life. Good luck in school. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anjelina Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid Beth, I respect your opinion. I am also on SSI, currently unemployed and a fulltime student. While I took a break from school I had to start repaying my loans. If loans are misused or abuses then they can become evil, but if a student takes out what they need and pays back what they can when they can if can be a helpful tool toward success. Even though it can be said job prospects are weak, I'd rather take the chance of receiving an education in the hopes that in the end my hard work will pay off. Just my opinions -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid I don't think anything is understood here. Loans are evil. For some people that is. Loans put you in debt and I can't afford debt if I'm unemployed for a while and on SSI. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gma il.com -- Bill Casson University of New Mexico M.S. Computer Science Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11 B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci. (505) 695-1374 cassonw at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 26 01:49:29 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:49:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TVI In-Reply-To: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria> References: <235C0195A7AA484CA1DD42554AC84DF1@Gloria> Message-ID: No, not as such, we have pibe-division, and nobe-l go to: http://www.nfbnet.org and choose the first link to see all lists. Dave At 05:17 PM 7/25/2012, you wrote: >Hi all, >Does anyone know if there is a list for TVI's in the NFB? Thanks From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jul 26 01:52:00 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:52:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Purpose of List Message-ID: This is a not so gentle reminder that this is the list for the National Association of Blind Students. Discussion of the ethics of loans, credit cards, religion and all other non-blindness-related stuff is not appropriate for here. Some of you have wandered far afield in your discussion. Please cut it out. David Andrews, List Owner From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 03:10:13 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:10:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid Message-ID: <5010b538.82b0ec0a.747b.09a2@mx.google.com> Joshua, people can harbor whatever religious beliefs they want. Just because they're not ours doesn't mean we can bash them. If Beth's religion prevents her from using loans, she'll just have to be resourceful and find another way to solve her problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: josh gregory wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 03:34:40 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:34:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <5010b538.82b0ec0a.747b.09a2@mx.google.com> References: <5010b538.82b0ec0a.747b.09a2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6B6BC917B18F4FB79F18E6A585359FBC@OwnerPC> Sophie, While I respect one's decision not to use loans based on personal religious beliefs, what got me annoyed was Beth called loans crap. She said "Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. " I know people of all religions including muslims who use loans. Student loans are a means of paying for school and I can think of at least three blind people who did this for grad school as its hard to get rehab to pay for grad school. So I don't believe its fair to call loans crap just because you dislike them based on religious beliefs. Apparently, other muslims interpret their religion different; I do know muslims who take out student loans. That's all I'll say before a religion discussion begins. I'm not sure if pell grants are the same as loans, but this might be an option as well if rehab doesn't help. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid Joshua, people can harbor whatever religious beliefs they want. Just because they're not ours doesn't mean we can bash them. If Beth's religion prevents her from using loans, she'll just have to be resourceful and find another way to solve her problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion dollars in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay for it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., and is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: josh gregory wrote: This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA won't pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't borrow money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth for some people. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 gmail.com -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 0students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 03:58:50 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:58:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001a01cd6ae2$f7d2e880$e778b980$@gmail.com> See below. This sounds like something for you programmers -----Original Message----- From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:33 PM To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: [Blindtlk] Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Return to index Description: A group picture of the participants and their robo The participants and their robots. Description: A robot on a table makes its way between barriers A robot navigating the maze. Description: A teenage girl sits at a laptop and programs comma Programming the robot. Description: A computer screen shows various commands that the Commands that have been programmed. Description: Several students look on as a robot begins its att A robot getting ready to knock over some obstacles. People with college degrees tend to earn about twice as much money as people who don't finish college. And people who major in Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (often called the "STEM" fields) make even more and have an easier time finding jobs. The key is making sure that young people with disabilities get access to good STEM jobs. In order to make that a reality, on June 21st, the World Institute on Disability (WID), in collaboration with WizKidz and Georgia Tech's Human-Automation Systems Lab (HumAnS), hosted an ARoPability Workshop (that's short for "Accessible Robotic Programming for Students with Visual Impairments") at the Ed Roberts Campus in Berkeley, California. Access to technology is especially important for people with disabilities, because they often are early adopters of technology and benefit disproportionately from it. However, they have also been largely left out of the development of that technology and the benefits of having those good STEM jobs. This workshop was designed to introduce young people to the opportunities available to them by allowing them to creatively explore options that may seem impossible and be a part of the tech sector, not just as users, but as engineers and developers. By teaching kids how to operate robots, this day long event made science and technology fun, engaging, and real. The Junior Blind of America and LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired recruited ten Bay Area teenagers between the ages of 14 and 19 with visual impairments or blindness to participate. They were divided into 5 teams of 2 students each who would work together to program and operate their robots. Three graduate students from Georgia Tech led the WhizKids-designed program, first introducing the participants to their Lego NXT robots and laptop computers and then beginning to teach them how they worked. The way you control these robots is by writing software code on your computer and then connecting the robot to your computer via the USB port. The code you write is then transferred to the robot and it performs whatever actions you programmed. So, the leaders of this workshop taught the students how to program their robots to do things like walk forward 10 centimeters, turn left or right, and how many degrees they should turn. There were two big keys to making this work for this particular group of students. The first was that Georgia Tech's HumAnS lab had adapted Lego software to work with JAWS, a popular screen-reading program that helps blind people use Windows software, and with magnification software that helps people with visual impairments get a very close up view of what is on their screens. By doing this, they took the Lego software, which was inaccessible, and made it into an exciting tool that these young people could use. The second big key was that they had adapted Nintendo Wii controllers to give the students tactile feedback for whatever their robots did. So, whenever the robots went forward or backward, left or right, or even when they bumped into something, the Wii controllers would vibrate in certain ways, letting the young programmers know exactly what had happened! Once the students had a grasp of how to program commands into their robots, it was time for the games to begin. First, they had to program their robots to navigate a maze with wooden blocks. To do this, they initially "watched" as the workshop facilitator had his pre-programmed robot go through the maze. As the robot went, on each team one teammate would feel the vibrations the robot communicated to the Wii controller and tell the other teammate what the robot was doing. The other teammate would take notes and try to program their own robot to do the same thing. No team made it through the maze on their first try, but by the second or third try, most had it figured out! Then they played "Kick the Can," where they had to figure out ways to program their robots to knock over a bunch of water bottles and other barriers scattered around a table. The challenge here was to figure out how to program the robot such that it would cover the highest percentage possible of the table's surface to find the objects they had to "kick," but without falling off. For example, some programmed their robots to methodically go back and forwards across the table, as though their robots were mowing a big football field, while another team had their robot go in a spiral, slowly but steadily creeping outwards and pushing over everything in its path. In this way, the basic principles of computer programming and engineering were introduced to these 10 students. As Kat Zigmont, one of the WID employees who organized the event put it, "The best thing about the day was that before the workshop began, none of the students had done any computer programming, but by the end, all were confident that it was something they could learn and they hoped to learn more!" WID will continue doing these types of workshops, so that more and more young people with all types of disabilities can become more involved in STEM fields. Check out the WID website for more information about this and other WID programs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 64a9f6.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 41587 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 64aa44.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30618 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ blindtlk mailing list blindtlk at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 26 04:57:35 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:57:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financial aid In-Reply-To: <6B6BC917B18F4FB79F18E6A585359FBC@OwnerPC> References: <5010b538.82b0ec0a.747b.09a2@mx.google.com> <6B6BC917B18F4FB79F18E6A585359FBC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Pell Grants are different from loans. Loans, you have to pay back. Pell Grants you don't. Blessings, Joshua On 7/25/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Sophie, > > While I respect one's decision not to use loans based on personal religious > > beliefs, what got me annoyed was Beth called loans > crap. > She said > "Loans aren't worth crap, and > government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because > some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back > because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. " > > I know people of all religions including muslims who use loans. > Student loans are a means of paying for school and I can think of at least > three blind people > who did this for grad school as its hard to get rehab to pay for grad > school. > So I don't believe its fair to call loans crap just because you dislike them > > based on religious beliefs. Apparently, other muslims interpret their > religion different; I do know muslims who take out student loans. That's all > > I'll say before a religion discussion begins. > > I'm not sure if pell grants are the same as loans, but this might be an > option as well if rehab doesn't help. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sophie Trist > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Joshua, people can harbor whatever religious beliefs they want. > Just because they're not ours doesn't mean we can bash them. If > Beth's religion prevents her from using loans, she'll just have > to be resourceful and find another way to solve her problem. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:12:22 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > You know, that some go to extremes. > This isn't the religion discussion list, but I'm tired of people > using > that as an excuse. > Sounds like people using religion to not take their child to the > doctor. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/25/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh come on!!! Religion doesn't have a thing to do with it! That > doesn't mean loans are bad!! Write me offlist. > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > Well, ... ok, someone made a point that we owe a trillion > dollars > in student loan debt, including the federal government loans. > Some religions, such as Islam, prohibit interesft, which loans > accrue. I know a blind Muslim student or two going to college > who can't do loans, so he has to rely heavily on Rehab to pay > for > it. The only reason I think Rehab's paying for it is because > he's on SSI, holds a Gree Card, is not a citizen of the U.S., > and > is/was until recently on refugee status in Somalia. > Thanks. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: josh gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:31:56 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] financial aid > > Uh, Beth, what does that have to do with absolutely anything? > > On 7/25/12, Beth wrote: > This message regards financial aid. Wasif, you said FAFSA > won't > pay if my GPA is below 2.0. Well, I have SSI and can't pay > for school even with loans. Loans aren't worth crap, and > government loans aren't worth crap either. I say this because > some students, even Muslim students, can't pay the loans back > because interesft is considered Riba, or evil. You can't > borrow > money from banks due to religious reasons, and that's the truth > for some people. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40 > gmail.com > > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0students.pccua.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 06:59:48 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:59:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerfor college In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-3085492331653129018@unknownmsgid> Desiree, I would suggest that you go ahead and try taking 12 credit hours. The worst thing that could happen to you is that things don't work out and you have to drop out of college, but at least you will have tried your best. Pick aa major that you think you like, and don't necessarily take problematic classes on your first semester. I'm sure you will find enough resources around you that will help you to do well. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Maybe I should have been a little clearer. What I mean is, students > who only receive SSI and have no secondary funding sources such as > parents are going to have to take that 12 or more credits because > rehab is the only way they'll get through college without being buried > up to their heads in unnecessary debt. I'm one of those people. I have > enough stress in my life without worrying about debt, because if and > when it ever comes time for me to raise a family, I don't still want > to have to pay that off while trying to raise my kids. There's no > guarantee in this economy for employment. It has absolutely nothing to > do with blindness, just common sense, most people are struggling right > now with the way things are. I wouldn't expect my parents to help pay > for my education even if they could afford it, because I'm not that > selfish, nor do I expect handouts. But I do know that if rehab pays > for it, I'm not a special case, and they can put whatever rules in > place they need to to make it fair for everyone. > My counselor said that 12 credits is the minimum requirement. He said > that if I felt I could take more than that, more power to me. I guess > I'm just questioning if I can really jump in and start with 12 > credits. So what I meant by the fact that sighted students can choose > is, if they want to start out by taking a class or two at a community > college, they can. Community colleges don't charge that much, and if > they have a job, they can most likely pay out of pocket. For someone > who only has SSI, even that's not practical. That's where we're > limited in our freedom of choice. We must take all or nothing, or > forge our own path that doesn't involve rehab. > > On 7/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do >> sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load >> is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students >> don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and >> student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >>> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >>> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Ignosi, >>>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>>> different. >>>> >>>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>>> years. >>>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>>> listened >>>> to mine so could not take short cuts. >>>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially in >>>> upper >>>> >>>> level classes. >>>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say 12 >>>> credits isn't a lot of work. >>>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>>> finished >>>> >>>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm taking >>>> writing classes applicable to business like technical editing and >>>> business >>>> writing. >>>> >>>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the semester >>>> including multiple papers. >>>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you can >>>> handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>>> >>>> college >>>> >>>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need to >>>> exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) >>>>> Then, they told me that I needed to get a General Education >>>>> certificate. >>>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go back to >>>>> get a real degree! >>>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order to >>>>> do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work for >>>>> VR. >>>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started in >>>>> 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so you >>>>>> don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. It's >>>>>> easier to assume that it was my own fault because you weren't there, >>>>>> so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about people being >>>>>> privileged was that some people don't go to college because they want >>>>>> to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, which in their minds >>>>>> gives them a license to be jerks. Some are pressured into picking a >>>>>> specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying is >>>>>> that the argument of college kids being more mature than high school >>>>>> kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going to have >>>>>> immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I know that in >>>>>> college, people are being let out of their cages. They're roaring and >>>>>> stomping their way through campus, tearing it up and having a grand >>>>>> old time because it's the first time they've been away from home. No >>>>>> parents to tell them who they can and cannot be friends with. Nobody >>>>>> saying they can't order pizza every night. No one to stop them from >>>>>> sleeping with someone. It would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they >>>>>> didn't know how to get a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we >>>>>> live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really don't >>>>>> know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and kids were >>>>>> treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old kid supposed >>>>>> to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids up and showed >>>>>> them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. Oh, >>>>>> the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think Google >>>>>> indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though is that I >>>>>> know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the same education >>>>>> that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very unprepared for >>>>>> college. I never heard of academic probation in my life until reading >>>>>> this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds like the shady side of >>>>>> the law, or if not that, a sure way to fail every job interview as >>>>>> well. Also, rehab only pays for college if you take 12 credits worth >>>>>> of classes. I think that would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't >>>>>> want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>>> college >>>>>>> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> back. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>> they pay >>>>>>> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for >>>>>>> financial reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>> if I >>>>>>> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you >>>>>>> apply to >>>>>>> schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>> stupid >>>>>>> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know >>>>>>> whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>> should just >>>>>>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and >>>>>>> this in order >>>>>>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with >>>>>>> the adaptive >>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>> supervisor know >>>>>>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in >>>>>>> college and if >>>>>>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a >>>>>>> computer. Because >>>>>>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology >>>>>>> failure, you really >>>>>>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best >>>>>>> support in >>>>>>> the world. >>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>> you want in >>>>>>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to >>>>>>> have a Mac. >>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>> for you. They >>>>>>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un >>>>>>> moving >>>>>>> and firm >>>>>>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can >>>>>>> have, even >>>>>>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> the key and >>>>>>> independence is the way. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> working >>>>>>> computerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>> apps >>>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>> assessment >>>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to >>>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I >>>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work >>>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before >>>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 10:16:08 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:16:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Via Email Message-ID: <5011191b.020c650a.4e7e.ffffaee0@mx.google.com> Recently I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email. I was supposed to receive a confirmation email and I still have not receive it. What should I do about this? From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Jul 26 11:04:36 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:04:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Via Email In-Reply-To: <5011191b.020c650a.4e7e.ffffaee0@mx.google.com> References: <5011191b.020c650a.4e7e.ffffaee0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Whoever's over it needs to get to work, or someone else that has time to moderate it needs to take over! I'd be willing to volunteer! Thanks, Joshua On 7/26/12, Roanna Baccchus wrote: > Recently I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email. I > was supposed to receive a confirmation email and I still have not > receive it. What should I do about this? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Thu Jul 26 13:02:55 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 09:02:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <-3085492331653129018@unknownmsgid> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> <-3085492331653129018@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BE3@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Desiree If you really feel like you can't handle 3 classes your first semester, contact your state office and explain your particular situation. Most policies have exceptions and you need to advocate for yourself. The other thing you can do is take really easy classes this first semester. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Desiree, I would suggest that you go ahead and try taking 12 credit hours. The worst thing that could happen to you is that things don't work out and you have to drop out of college, but at least you will have tried your best. Pick aa major that you think you like, and don't necessarily take problematic classes on your first semester. I'm sure you will find enough resources around you that will help you to do well. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Maybe I should have been a little clearer. What I mean is, students > who only receive SSI and have no secondary funding sources such as > parents are going to have to take that 12 or more credits because > rehab is the only way they'll get through college without being buried > up to their heads in unnecessary debt. I'm one of those people. I have > enough stress in my life without worrying about debt, because if and > when it ever comes time for me to raise a family, I don't still want > to have to pay that off while trying to raise my kids. There's no > guarantee in this economy for employment. It has absolutely nothing to > do with blindness, just common sense, most people are struggling right > now with the way things are. I wouldn't expect my parents to help pay > for my education even if they could afford it, because I'm not that > selfish, nor do I expect handouts. But I do know that if rehab pays > for it, I'm not a special case, and they can put whatever rules in > place they need to to make it fair for everyone. > My counselor said that 12 credits is the minimum requirement. He said > that if I felt I could take more than that, more power to me. I guess > I'm just questioning if I can really jump in and start with 12 > credits. So what I meant by the fact that sighted students can choose > is, if they want to start out by taking a class or two at a community > college, they can. Community colleges don't charge that much, and if > they have a job, they can most likely pay out of pocket. For someone > who only has SSI, even that's not practical. That's where we're > limited in our freedom of choice. We must take all or nothing, or > forge our own path that doesn't involve rehab. > > On 7/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do >> sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load >> is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students >> don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and >> student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >>> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >>> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Ignosi, >>>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>>> different. >>>> >>>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>>> years. >>>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>>> listened to mine so could not take short cuts. >>>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially >>>> in upper >>>> >>>> level classes. >>>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say >>>> 12 credits isn't a lot of work. >>>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>>> finished >>>> >>>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm >>>> taking writing classes applicable to business like technical >>>> editing and business writing. >>>> >>>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the >>>> semester including multiple papers. >>>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you >>>> can handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>>> >>>> college >>>> >>>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need >>>> to exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) Then, they >>>>> told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go >>>>> back to get a real degree! >>>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order >>>>> to do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work >>>>> for VR. >>>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started >>>>> in 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so >>>>>> you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. >>>>>> It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you >>>>>> weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about >>>>>> people being privileged was that some people don't go to college >>>>>> because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, >>>>>> which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are >>>>>> pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying >>>>>> is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high >>>>>> school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going >>>>>> to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I >>>>>> know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. >>>>>> They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it >>>>>> up and having a grand old time because it's the first time >>>>>> they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can >>>>>> and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza >>>>>> every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It >>>>>> would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get >>>>>> a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really >>>>>> don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and >>>>>> kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old >>>>>> kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids >>>>>> up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. >>>>>> Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think >>>>>> Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though >>>>>> is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the >>>>>> same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very >>>>>> unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my >>>>>> life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds >>>>>> like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to >>>>>> fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for >>>>>> college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that >>>>>> would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>>> college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They >>>>>>> should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants >>>>>>> with your academic situation. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>> things back. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>> they pay for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval >>>>>>> for financial reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>> if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much >>>>>>> about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college >>>>>>> can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>> stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I >>>>>>> don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>> should just go and tell them that you're going and you need >>>>>>> this, this and this in order to be independent. You need to have >>>>>>> a technology assessment by a professional blind technology >>>>>>> person and it's your right to get that assessment. If your >>>>>>> counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>>>>> succeeding in college and if they want you to pass your classes, >>>>>>> you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't someone with >>>>>>> time to worry about a technology failure, you really need an >>>>>>> apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >>>>>>> in the world. >>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>> you want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, >>>>>>> you need to have a Mac. >>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>> for you. They will only guide you if you let them. you must be >>>>>>> sure, un moving and firm that this is what you want and there is >>>>>>> nothing better you can have, even though there may be things >>>>>>> you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and independence >>>>>>> is the way. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> working computerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>> apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>> assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency >>>>>>> for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health >>>>>>> group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of >>>>>>> this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment >>>>>>> to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab >>>>>>> and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the >>>>>>> work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart >>>>>>> before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>>> people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>> o >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462% >>>>>>> 4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>> o >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower1 >>>>>>> 7%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e >>>> arthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From lily2011a at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 22:08:47 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:08:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] regarding software for graphs & tables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shreyas, I know of an special embosser that embosses braille graphs and I think it does tables as well. It is called Tiger. I can give you a friends number who is more familiar with it. Also with sighted assistance you will be able to make a table graph on your own. If it isn't very complicated. Use your brailler to make a chart. Have your sighted assistant read you the print graph. I can give you a few peoples numbers that you could contact if you'd like. Please email me directly at Lily2011a at gmail.com. Also, excell is accessible for the blind if you know how to write in your formulas and if you need more instruction on that, I can give you a contact number for that as well after you email me. Talk to you soon. Lily On 7/25/12, Shreyas N Reddy wrote: > hi all > hope u all r fine > I am Shreyas, a new member of this mailing list > I am also blind but had partial sight before & I am resident of India. > I became totally blind due to the impairment called RP > So, I request to get one help from u all please & I have stated below > I am doing my economics, business studies, accounts, subjects & I am > doing the 11th grade I am in need of any software which > can support graphs & tabulations for > blind users without any hindrance & without causing any problem to me > So, can u all please share a software which can really help in > economics & graphical representation? > Please & tell me excluding excel. > This software should be exclusively for blind users or some > accessibility should be there for blind.I request u all > Help would be appreciated > I look forward to get response from u all > > > -- > in regards > Shreyas Nagaraj Reddy > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 04:01:45 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] Accessible Robotic Programming Helps TeensGet into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics In-Reply-To: <001a01cd6ae2$f7d2e880$e778b980$@gmail.com> References: <001a01cd6ae2$f7d2e880$e778b980$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF366011D5B4E40813E23BD381FF00A@BrandonsLaptop2> I wonder if it would be possible to get the scripts for Jaws, or get the ability to have an accessible SDK or what ever it is for the robots. I've always wanted to program robots! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; gui-talk at nfbnet.org ; nfbcs at nfbnet.org ; nfbWaTlk at nfbNet.org Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] Accessible Robotic Programming Helps TeensGet into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics See below. This sounds like something for you programmers -----Original Message----- From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:33 PM To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: [Blindtlk] Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Accessible Robotic Programming Helps Teens Get into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Return to index Description: A group picture of the participants and their robo The participants and their robots. Description: A robot on a table makes its way between barriers A robot navigating the maze. Description: A teenage girl sits at a laptop and programs comma Programming the robot. Description: A computer screen shows various commands that the Commands that have been programmed. Description: Several students look on as a robot begins its att A robot getting ready to knock over some obstacles. People with college degrees tend to earn about twice as much money as people who don't finish college. And people who major in Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (often called the "STEM" fields) make even more and have an easier time finding jobs. The key is making sure that young people with disabilities get access to good STEM jobs. In order to make that a reality, on June 21st, the World Institute on Disability (WID), in collaboration with WizKidz and Georgia Tech's Human-Automation Systems Lab (HumAnS), hosted an ARoPability Workshop (that's short for "Accessible Robotic Programming for Students with Visual Impairments") at the Ed Roberts Campus in Berkeley, California. Access to technology is especially important for people with disabilities, because they often are early adopters of technology and benefit disproportionately from it. However, they have also been largely left out of the development of that technology and the benefits of having those good STEM jobs. This workshop was designed to introduce young people to the opportunities available to them by allowing them to creatively explore options that may seem impossible and be a part of the tech sector, not just as users, but as engineers and developers. By teaching kids how to operate robots, this day long event made science and technology fun, engaging, and real. The Junior Blind of America and LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired recruited ten Bay Area teenagers between the ages of 14 and 19 with visual impairments or blindness to participate. They were divided into 5 teams of 2 students each who would work together to program and operate their robots. Three graduate students from Georgia Tech led the WhizKids-designed program, first introducing the participants to their Lego NXT robots and laptop computers and then beginning to teach them how they worked. The way you control these robots is by writing software code on your computer and then connecting the robot to your computer via the USB port. The code you write is then transferred to the robot and it performs whatever actions you programmed. So, the leaders of this workshop taught the students how to program their robots to do things like walk forward 10 centimeters, turn left or right, and how many degrees they should turn. There were two big keys to making this work for this particular group of students. The first was that Georgia Tech's HumAnS lab had adapted Lego software to work with JAWS, a popular screen-reading program that helps blind people use Windows software, and with magnification software that helps people with visual impairments get a very close up view of what is on their screens. By doing this, they took the Lego software, which was inaccessible, and made it into an exciting tool that these young people could use. The second big key was that they had adapted Nintendo Wii controllers to give the students tactile feedback for whatever their robots did. So, whenever the robots went forward or backward, left or right, or even when they bumped into something, the Wii controllers would vibrate in certain ways, letting the young programmers know exactly what had happened! Once the students had a grasp of how to program commands into their robots, it was time for the games to begin. First, they had to program their robots to navigate a maze with wooden blocks. To do this, they initially "watched" as the workshop facilitator had his pre-programmed robot go through the maze. As the robot went, on each team one teammate would feel the vibrations the robot communicated to the Wii controller and tell the other teammate what the robot was doing. The other teammate would take notes and try to program their own robot to do the same thing. No team made it through the maze on their first try, but by the second or third try, most had it figured out! Then they played "Kick the Can," where they had to figure out ways to program their robots to knock over a bunch of water bottles and other barriers scattered around a table. The challenge here was to figure out how to program the robot such that it would cover the highest percentage possible of the table's surface to find the objects they had to "kick," but without falling off. For example, some programmed their robots to methodically go back and forwards across the table, as though their robots were mowing a big football field, while another team had their robot go in a spiral, slowly but steadily creeping outwards and pushing over everything in its path. In this way, the basic principles of computer programming and engineering were introduced to these 10 students. As Kat Zigmont, one of the WID employees who organized the event put it, "The best thing about the day was that before the workshop began, none of the students had done any computer programming, but by the end, all were confident that it was something they could learn and they hoped to learn more!" WID will continue doing these types of workshops, so that more and more young people with all types of disabilities can become more involved in STEM fields. Check out the WID website for more information about this and other WID programs. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 04:11:30 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:11:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BE3@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid><-3085492331653129018@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BE3@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <8CF298223908443ABE96F022C31DD366@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I wonder if there is a way to justify taking more than the max units for college because I'm blind? I'm pretty sure it's no difficulty to justify taking less, but the California State University just put a cap at 17 units that is really being enforced and that extra 2 or 5 units really makes a difference for us honors folks. Perhaps that if I don't get the education from these heavy loads of classes, I will end up not being as marketable as my sighted counterparts. In order to compete I need to be more qualified for the job and know my subject more because many employers discount me because of my blindness. These classes will broaden my qualifications and increase my chances of employment. I'm just wondering if it's possible to make people believe I can do more rather than less because of my blindness? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Wasif, Zunaira Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:02 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Desiree If you really feel like you can't handle 3 classes your first semester, contact your state office and explain your particular situation. Most policies have exceptions and you need to advocate for yourself. The other thing you can do is take really easy classes this first semester. Zunaira -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Desiree, I would suggest that you go ahead and try taking 12 credit hours. The worst thing that could happen to you is that things don't work out and you have to drop out of college, but at least you will have tried your best. Pick aa major that you think you like, and don't necessarily take problematic classes on your first semester. I'm sure you will find enough resources around you that will help you to do well. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi, > Maybe I should have been a little clearer. What I mean is, students > who only receive SSI and have no secondary funding sources such as > parents are going to have to take that 12 or more credits because > rehab is the only way they'll get through college without being buried > up to their heads in unnecessary debt. I'm one of those people. I have > enough stress in my life without worrying about debt, because if and > when it ever comes time for me to raise a family, I don't still want > to have to pay that off while trying to raise my kids. There's no > guarantee in this economy for employment. It has absolutely nothing to > do with blindness, just common sense, most people are struggling right > now with the way things are. I wouldn't expect my parents to help pay > for my education even if they could afford it, because I'm not that > selfish, nor do I expect handouts. But I do know that if rehab pays > for it, I'm not a special case, and they can put whatever rules in > place they need to to make it fair for everyone. > My counselor said that 12 credits is the minimum requirement. He said > that if I felt I could take more than that, more power to me. I guess > I'm just questioning if I can really jump in and start with 12 > credits. So what I meant by the fact that sighted students can choose > is, if they want to start out by taking a class or two at a community > college, they can. Community colleges don't charge that much, and if > they have a job, they can most likely pay out of pocket. For someone > who only has SSI, even that's not practical. That's where we're > limited in our freedom of choice. We must take all or nothing, or > forge our own path that doesn't involve rehab. > > On 7/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do >> sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load >> is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students >> don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and >> student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. >> Arielle >> >> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >>> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >>> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't we? >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Ignosi, >>>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>>> different. >>>> >>>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>>> years. >>>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>>> listened to mine so could not take short cuts. >>>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially >>>> in upper >>>> >>>> level classes. >>>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say >>>> 12 credits isn't a lot of work. >>>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>>> finished >>>> >>>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm >>>> taking writing classes applicable to business like technical >>>> editing and business writing. >>>> >>>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the >>>> semester including multiple papers. >>>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you >>>> can handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>>> >>>> college >>>> >>>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need >>>> to exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these >>>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) Then, they >>>>> told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go >>>>> back to get a real degree! >>>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order >>>>> to do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work >>>>> for VR. >>>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started >>>>> in 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>>> Good grief! >>>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so >>>>>> you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. >>>>>> It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you >>>>>> weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about >>>>>> people being privileged was that some people don't go to college >>>>>> because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, >>>>>> which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are >>>>>> pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the parents pay for them to go. >>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party >>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying >>>>>> is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high >>>>>> school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going >>>>>> to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I >>>>>> know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. >>>>>> They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it >>>>>> up and having a grand old time because it's the first time >>>>>> they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can >>>>>> and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza >>>>>> every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It >>>>>> would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get >>>>>> a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really >>>>>> don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and >>>>>> kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old >>>>>> kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids >>>>>> up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty passive back then. >>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. >>>>>> Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think >>>>>> Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though >>>>>> is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the >>>>>> same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very >>>>>> unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my >>>>>> life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds >>>>>> like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to >>>>>> fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for >>>>>> college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that >>>>>> would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the >>>>>>> college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They >>>>>>> should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants >>>>>>> with your academic situation. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>> things back. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>> they pay for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval >>>>>>> for financial reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>> if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much >>>>>>> about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college >>>>>>> can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>> stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I >>>>>>> don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>> should just go and tell them that you're going and you need >>>>>>> this, this and this in order to be independent. You need to have >>>>>>> a technology assessment by a professional blind technology >>>>>>> person and it's your right to get that assessment. If your >>>>>>> counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>>>>> succeeding in college and if they want you to pass your classes, >>>>>>> you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't someone with >>>>>>> time to worry about a technology failure, you really need an >>>>>>> apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >>>>>>> in the world. >>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>> you want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, >>>>>>> you need to have a Mac. >>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>> for you. They will only guide you if you let them. you must be >>>>>>> sure, un moving and firm that this is what you want and there is >>>>>>> nothing better you can have, even though there may be things >>>>>>> you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and independence >>>>>>> is the way. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>> working computerfor college >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>> apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>> assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency >>>>>>> for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health >>>>>>> group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of >>>>>>> this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment >>>>>>> to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab >>>>>>> and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the >>>>>>> work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart >>>>>>> before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal >>>>>>> people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>> o >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462% >>>>>>> 4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>> o >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower1 >>>>>>> 7%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e >>>> arthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 13:33:46 2012 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:33:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: Hi All, I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it available in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even if you get straight A's you can only improve your writing or math skills if you sit with someone else who can look over your work and give you constructive feedback. As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear this idea up with individual professors. Especially if your university offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be hesitant to ok an outside source, unless there is some clear advantage, or this source has specialized knowledge. For instance, Arielle is great at SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS in school, most of these tutors have never even heard of screen access software. In this instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. Thanks. Mary On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: > I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and > don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we > can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community > service hours or something. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Koby > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success > > Arielle, > Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at > college? > > Right back soon, > Koby. > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, > >> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to > >> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who >> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no >> stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring > >> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that > >> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary >> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students >> who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is >> struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester >> and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should >> worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your > >> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service >> where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind > >> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you > >> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >> papers or provide general research advice. >> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, >> but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract >> goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out >> if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals >> could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as >> specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of >> blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let >> fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range >> goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon >> some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them >> out of your way. >> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds >> awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in >> class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, >> I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with >> hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is > >> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue >> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind > >> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the > >> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try > >> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >> having before? >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >> m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory 2012 "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." -- Laurel Thatcher Ulrich From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 17:25:06 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:25:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring And College Success Message-ID: <5012cf29.4c89ec0a.0665.ffffd7c4@mx.google.com> Hi Brandon great prsts. College Success is a good class for first-time college iudents to take. I took this class last semester when I started college. It might also be helpful for you to take three classes depending on the amount of credits you need. Talk to your Disability Office and ask them what they recommend. From mistydbradley at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 07:39:51 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 03:39:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test Message-ID: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> Hi all, I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by JAWS. I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? Thank you in advance, Misty From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 28 12:01:30 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 07:01:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> References: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: Misty, I had to take the Compass, as well. There are Braille Algebra books, that National Braille Press has produced. I had them in High School. It's too bad that the college wouldn't contact NBP, in order to get them for me, before my test! Blessings, Joshua On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi all, > I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I was > told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, > and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study > more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my > strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. > Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is accessible, > such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the > test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math > problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by JAWS. > I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental > courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken this > test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? > Thank you in advance, > > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 18:23:33 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 14:23:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: References: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: I also took the Compass tests. I hadn't taken any algebra for nearly a decade (I'm a nontraditional student at 27), but I managed to test out of the developmental classes without much problem. The hardest algebra it got to was F(G(x)) where F was one thing and G another. Like G(x) = 24, and F(x)=2x+3...something like that. It did have logarithms and sin and cosin, which I didn't know, but I passed anyway. Don't worry too much about it; it's not the end of the world if you have to take a developmental class...I took one voluntarily to refresh my memory, and it was a good class. Good luck, Jewel On 7/28/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Misty, I had to take the Compass, as well. > There are Braille Algebra books, that National Braille Press has produced. > I had them in High School. > It's too bad that the college wouldn't contact NBP, in order to get > them for me, before my test! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I >> was >> told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, >> and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study >> more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my >> strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. >> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >> accessible, >> such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the >> test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math >> problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by >> JAWS. >> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental >> courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken >> this >> test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Misty >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 18:24:54 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:24:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] resume Message-ID: *Hi all, I'm applying to grad school. Does my updated resume make any sense? TIA Deb Debra Mendelsohn* Deb.Mendelsohn at gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ * * * * *Experience:* *Cataloging Intern *4/12 - Present** Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired (SAAVI) Tucson, AZ - Catalog 5000 Audio Book collection - Design Implement catalog in braille, large print and electronic format - Design, Implement Catalog in Access Database - Design, implement labels for material in Braille, large print, * * *Employment History:* *Research Associate* *Police Consultants Inc. *7/00- 12/10** Westmont IL - Management of Psychology Information Center. - Route journals to psychologists. - Assist psychologists with research projects. - Fill information requests in a timely manner. * * *Research Assistant* *American Medical Association (AMA) *9/95 – 9/00 Chicago IL - Management of OGC Information Center - Budget Managing - Select and acquire new library materials - Catalog and Process New Materials - Route Journals to AMA staff - Provide AMA staff with daily email informational updates - Online Research HLAW and Corporate Law topics - Monitor RSS Feeds for appropriate information - Assist AMA staff with research - Assist AMA Member Physicians with research requests. - Assist Health Policy Librarian - Project Assistant - Design, Implement Maintain File Bank - Archive AMA HLAW Documentation - Routine office work including answering phones, sort mail *Desk Attendant* 5/95-8/95 *Itasca Community Library* Itasca IL · Part time summer position as clerk at circulation desk, · Assisted patrons in person and on the phone · Collect fines · Material check-in, checkout and renewal. · searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan · Registered patrons for library cards. *Library Assistant* *Northeastern Illinois University* 5/94 – 5/95 Chicago IL - Part time work-study position - Circulation Desk - Assist patrons in person and on the phone. - Assisted patrons in person and on the phone - Collect fines - Material check-in, checkout and renewal. - Assist Reserve Librarian - searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan ________________________________________________________________________ *Education: * * * *Northeastern Illinois University* *Chicago, IL* B.A. Liberal Arts GPA 3.46 1995 *Wright College* Chicago IL A.A. Humanities GPA 3.75 1993** , , * * -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 18:31:18 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 14:31:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] resume In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01cd6cef$2e228450$8a678cf0$@gmail.com> Hi there. Your resume does make sense but if I can suggest a couple of things. It would be good if you had your education first, then your skills, then your job experience and references. If you talk to 10 different people about resumes, you'll get 10 different answers. So this is just a suggestion. Also, make sure the bulleted points are the same for each job. For the library job you put periods (.) instead of dashes (-), which you used for all other job duties. HTH and I wish you all the best in your grad school endeavors. Hope Paulos -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:25 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] resume *Hi all, I'm applying to grad school. Does my updated resume make any sense? TIA Deb Debra Mendelsohn* Deb.Mendelsohn at gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ * * * * *Experience:* *Cataloging Intern *4/12 - Present** Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired (SAAVI) Tucson, AZ - Catalog 5000 Audio Book collection - Design Implement catalog in braille, large print and electronic format - Design, Implement Catalog in Access Database - Design, implement labels for material in Braille, large print, * * *Employment History:* *Research Associate* *Police Consultants Inc. *7/00- 12/10** Westmont IL - Management of Psychology Information Center. - Route journals to psychologists. - Assist psychologists with research projects. - Fill information requests in a timely manner. * * *Research Assistant* *American Medical Association (AMA) *9/95 - 9/00 Chicago IL - Management of OGC Information Center - Budget Managing - Select and acquire new library materials - Catalog and Process New Materials - Route Journals to AMA staff - Provide AMA staff with daily email informational updates - Online Research HLAW and Corporate Law topics - Monitor RSS Feeds for appropriate information - Assist AMA staff with research - Assist AMA Member Physicians with research requests. - Assist Health Policy Librarian - Project Assistant - Design, Implement Maintain File Bank - Archive AMA HLAW Documentation - Routine office work including answering phones, sort mail *Desk Attendant* 5/95-8/95 *Itasca Community Library* Itasca IL . Part time summer position as clerk at circulation desk, . Assisted patrons in person and on the phone . Collect fines . Material check-in, checkout and renewal. . searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan . Registered patrons for library cards. *Library Assistant* *Northeastern Illinois University* 5/94 - 5/95 Chicago IL - Part time work-study position - Circulation Desk - Assist patrons in person and on the phone. - Assisted patrons in person and on the phone - Collect fines - Material check-in, checkout and renewal. - Assist Reserve Librarian - searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan ________________________________________________________________________ *Education: * * * *Northeastern Illinois University* *Chicago, IL* B.A. Liberal Arts GPA 3.46 1995 *Wright College* Chicago IL A.A. Humanities GPA 3.75 1993** , , * * -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 21:42:38 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 14:42:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NAB OF AZ Message-ID: Hi all, Bob Kresmer said AZ NABS was meeting at State September 6-8. I wondered if we had an agenda yet. Also VR paid for me to attend National so is there other funding elsewhere for State. I also need a roommate. TIA Deb -- * * From mistydbradley at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:11:49 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:11:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test References: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: <01B5D6B294984100B9816A7CBA197C4E@acerd37f251f21> Hi Jewel, Thank you for the information. It sounds like it is not to difficult then. I did find a site called Purplemath that has Algebra lessons on it that are fairly accessible and give good explanations, so I have been looking over that too. Thanks, Misty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test >I also took the Compass tests. I hadn't taken any algebra for nearly a > decade (I'm a nontraditional student at 27), but I managed to test out > of the developmental classes without much problem. The hardest algebra > it got to was F(G(x)) where F was one thing and G another. Like G(x) = > 24, and F(x)=2x+3...something like that. It did have logarithms and > sin and cosin, which I didn't know, but I passed anyway. Don't worry > too much about it; it's not the end of the world if you have to take a > developmental class...I took one voluntarily to refresh my memory, and > it was a good class. > Good luck, > Jewel > > On 7/28/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Misty, I had to take the Compass, as well. >> There are Braille Algebra books, that National Braille Press has >> produced. >> I had them in High School. >> It's too bad that the college wouldn't contact NBP, in order to get >> them for me, before my test! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I >>> was >>> told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, >>> writing, >>> and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to >>> study >>> more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my >>> strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. >>> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >>> accessible, >>> such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the >>> test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math >>> problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by >>> JAWS. >>> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental >>> courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken >>> this >>> test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? >>> Thank you in advance, >>> >>> Misty >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:25:28 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:25:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> References: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for me. On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi all, > I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I was > told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, > and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study > more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my > strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. > Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is accessible, > such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the > test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math > problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by JAWS. > I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental > courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken this > test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? > Thank you in advance, > > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:29:55 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:29:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test Message-ID: For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but > they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 > so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. > Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for > me. > > On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I >> was >> told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, >> and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study >> more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my >> strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. >> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >> accessible, >> such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the >> test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math >> problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by >> JAWS. >> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental >> courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken >> this >> test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Misty >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:33:23 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:33:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> What about Learning Ally? They have a lot of textbooks and I'm sure they have ones pertaining to math. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of josh gregory Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:30 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but > they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 > so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. > Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for > me. > > On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >> since I have done Algebra. >> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >> text that is readable by JAWS. >> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >> portion get? >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Misty >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:34:18 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:34:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: References: <78B2374C5A0749668684699278360BB8@acerd37f251f21> Message-ID: Hello, I think what he's looking for is a book from NLS. If I were you I'd look for an intermediate Algebra book on NLS and just go through the exercises. There are probably books of exercises, so search for those. Then if you have any questions Google them and you should find the answer. Is there a list for blind students in math? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: josh gregory Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:25 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question About Studying For Math Placement Test Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for me. On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi all, > I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I > was > told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, > and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study > more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my > strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. > Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is > accessible, > such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the > test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math > problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by JAWS. > I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental > courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken > this > test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? > Thank you in advance, > > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:39:15 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:39:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01FFA9BD25E742DEB6F9016CCB3C24DD@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Yes kind of. I think of my disability center as a big checkbook and I just tell them where to spend their money. I gave them the name of a transcriber, I told them with justification why I needed double time, I gave them names of people who would be willing to be my aid, I let them know different problems they may need to stand behind me in, I've told them methods of taking tests that have worked in the past, I gave them everything but the money and the authority. They are like a shield and sword in college. The disability department is just a tool, not the solution. You need to lift the shield for it to do any good... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: josh gregory Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:29 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but > they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 > so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. > Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for > me. > > On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and I >> was >> told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in reading, writing, >> and math. I could do well in the reading and writing, but I need to study >> more for the math portion in the area of Algebra, as this is not my >> strongest area, and it has been a while since I have done Algebra. >> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >> accessible, >> such as a website or book, so that I can study for the math part of the >> test? A lot of the sites I have found are using graphics for the math >> problems and explanations rather than using text that is readable by >> JAWS. >> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra developmental >> courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have any of you taken >> this >> test before, and how advanced does the math portion get? >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Misty >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:40:16 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:40:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> References: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> Message-ID: That's true. They do have math algebra textbooks. On 7/28/12, Hope Paulos wrote: > What about Learning Ally? They have a lot of textbooks and I'm sure they > have ones pertaining to math. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of josh gregory > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:30 PM > To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About > Studying For Math Placement Test > > For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, > they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you > were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you > do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, > therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no > such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's > how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. > > On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: >> Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but >> they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 >> so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. >> Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for >> me. >> >> On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >>> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >>> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >>> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >>> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >>> since I have done Algebra. >>> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >>> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >>> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >>> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >>> text that is readable by JAWS. >>> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >>> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >>> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >>> portion get? >>> Thank you in advance, >>> >>> Misty >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 22:42:14 2012 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:42:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: <01FFA9BD25E742DEB6F9016CCB3C24DD@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <01FFA9BD25E742DEB6F9016CCB3C24DD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <000c01cd6d12$3d06d7f0$b71487d0$@gmail.com> Good analogy, Brandon!! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test Hello, Yes kind of. I think of my disability center as a big checkbook and I just tell them where to spend their money. I gave them the name of a transcriber, I told them with justification why I needed double time, I gave them names of people who would be willing to be my aid, I let them know different problems they may need to stand behind me in, I've told them methods of taking tests that have worked in the past, I gave them everything but the money and the authority. They are like a shield and sword in college. The disability department is just a tool, not the solution. You need to lift the shield for it to do any good... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: josh gregory Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:29 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but > they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 > so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. > Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for > me. > > On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >> since I have done Algebra. >> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >> text that is readable by JAWS. >> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >> portion get? >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Misty >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 23:13:33 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:13:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question AboutStudying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> References: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22ED43BA42ED4F9FB4777C200CEA0585@OwnerPC> Hope, But Josh wanted it in braille; that is why he needed NBP. -----Original Message----- From: Hope Paulos Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:33 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question AboutStudying For Math Placement Test What about Learning Ally? They have a lot of textbooks and I'm sure they have ones pertaining to math. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of josh gregory Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:30 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About Studying For Math Placement Test For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: > Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but > they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 > so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. > Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for > me. > > On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >> since I have done Algebra. >> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >> text that is readable by JAWS. >> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >> portion get? >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Misty >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >> l.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Jul 28 23:17:46 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 18:17:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question AboutStudying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: <22ED43BA42ED4F9FB4777C200CEA0585@OwnerPC> References: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> <22ED43BA42ED4F9FB4777C200CEA0585@OwnerPC> Message-ID: For Josh Gregory, I didn't know anything about NBP, until I was introduced to the NFB. i just assumed that the school was getting all of my Braille books from Rightsville Prison, (they used to have a Braille program.) Blessings, Joshua On 7/28/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hope, > But Josh wanted it in braille; that is why he needed NBP. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hope Paulos > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:33 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question > AboutStudying For Math Placement Test > > What about Learning Ally? They have a lot of textbooks and I'm sure they > have ones pertaining to math. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of josh gregory > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:30 PM > To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About > Studying For Math Placement Test > > For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high school, > they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you > were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything you > do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, > therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has no > such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but that's > how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. > > On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: >> Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but >> they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 >> so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. >> Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for >> me. >> >> On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >>> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >>> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >>> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >>> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >>> since I have done Algebra. >>> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >>> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >>> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >>> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >>> text that is readable by JAWS. >>> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >>> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >>> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >>> portion get? >>> Thank you in advance, >>> >>> Misty >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 00:05:24 2012 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 20:05:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question AboutStudying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: References: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> <22ED43BA42ED4F9FB4777C200CEA0585@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I see; then I do apologize, I thought you just assumed they'd do it. On 7/28/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > For Josh Gregory, I didn't know anything about NBP, until I was > introduced to the NFB. > i just assumed that the school was getting all of my Braille books > from Rightsville Prison, (they used to have a Braille program.) > Blessings, Joshua > > On 7/28/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hope, >> But Josh wanted it in braille; that is why he needed NBP. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hope Paulos >> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:33 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question >> AboutStudying For Math Placement Test >> >> What about Learning Ally? They have a lot of textbooks and I'm sure they >> have ones pertaining to math. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of josh gregory >> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:30 PM >> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About >> Studying For Math Placement Test >> >> For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high >> school, >> they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you >> were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything >> you >> do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, >> therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has >> no >> such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but >> that's >> how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. >> >> On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: >>> Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but >>> they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 >>> so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. >>> Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for >>> me. >>> >>> On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >>>> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >>>> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >>>> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >>>> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >>>> since I have done Algebra. >>>> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >>>> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >>>> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >>>> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >>>> text that is readable by JAWS. >>>> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >>>> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >>>> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >>>> portion get? >>>> Thank you in advance, >>>> >>>> Misty >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ways to Connect with me: >>> >>> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >>> >>> twitter.com/joshg93 >>> Skype: joshgregory93 >>> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Jul 29 00:09:50 2012 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:09:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question AboutStudying For Math Placement Test In-Reply-To: References: <010101cd6d11$00109210$0031b630$@gmail.com> <22ED43BA42ED4F9FB4777C200CEA0585@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I'm going to also suggest Midwestern Braille Volunteers, as well. http://www.mbvol.org Blessings, Joshua On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: > I see; then I do apologize, I thought you just assumed they'd do it. > > On 7/28/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> For Josh Gregory, I didn't know anything about NBP, until I was >> introduced to the NFB. >> i just assumed that the school was getting all of my Braille books >> from Rightsville Prison, (they used to have a Braille program.) >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 7/28/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Hope, >>> But Josh wanted it in braille; that is why he needed NBP. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Hope Paulos >>> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:33 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question >>> AboutStudying For Math Placement Test >>> >>> What about Learning Ally? They have a lot of textbooks and I'm sure they >>> have ones pertaining to math. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of josh gregory >>> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:30 PM >>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley; National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] entitlement vs eligibility was: Re: Question About >>> Studying For Math Placement Test >>> >>> For Joshua: This goes back to entitlement vs. eligibility. In high >>> school, >>> they did everything for you. You were given access to things because you >>> were entitled to them. In college, advocacy is a big part of everything >>> you >>> do! You, the student are expected to advocate for what you need, and, >>> therefor, you're the one that should have contacted nbp. The college has >>> no >>> such responsibility to do these things, that's your job. Sorry, but >>> that's >>> how it is, and how I'm going to explain it. >>> >>> On 7/28/12, josh gregory wrote: >>>> Oh man, this is bad but, originally, they gave me the algebra one, but >>>> they managed to find the arithmetic one. With a calculator, I got a 73 >>>> so will prob. be in introduction to algebra, with college math after. >>>> Well they'll give you the tests in braille if you ask, they did for >>>> me. >>>> >>>> On 7/28/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am starting classes on August 20 at my local community college, and >>>>> I was told that I need to take the Compass placement tests in >>>>> reading, writing, and math. I could do well in the reading and >>>>> writing, but I need to study more for the math portion in the area of >>>>> Algebra, as this is not my strongest area, and it has been a while >>>>> since I have done Algebra. >>>>> Does anyone on this list know where I can get something that is >>>>> accessible, such as a website or book, so that I can study for the >>>>> math part of the test? A lot of the sites I have found are using >>>>> graphics for the math problems and explanations rather than using >>>>> text that is readable by JAWS. >>>>> I am hoping to pass this test so I can avoid taking extra >>>>> developmental courses, so any help would be appreciated. Also, have >>>>> any of you taken this test before, and how advanced does the math >>>>> portion get? >>>>> Thank you in advance, >>>>> >>>>> Misty >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ways to Connect with me: >>>> >>>> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >>>> >>>> twitter.com/joshg93 >>>> Skype: joshgregory93 >>>> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ways to Connect with me: >>> >>> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >>> >>> twitter.com/joshg93 >>> Skype: joshgregory93 >>> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Ways to Connect with me: > > facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo > > twitter.com/joshg93 > Skype: joshgregory93 > FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From gpaikens at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 02:08:56 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:08:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] resume In-Reply-To: <000f01cd6cef$2e228450$8a678cf0$@gmail.com> References: <000f01cd6cef$2e228450$8a678cf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <261C1013-5E4B-45C0-BEB0-A3FFE8A34729@gmail.com> To add to what HOpe said, make sure complete contact information is at the top of your resume. I know you are limited for space on a resume, but you should put more than just your cell phone number. I would include an email address and a mailing address. They probably aren't going to mail you anything but its a pretty standard convention and the fact it is missing stands out. I would also put your education first, particularly because you are applying to school. I have never seen anyone include their GPAs on their resume before, but again, you might be able to get away with this because you are submitting it to schools. I would remove those when you apply for jobs. I don't think employers generally care what your GPA was. Make sure your capitalization and grammar are consistent throughout. Take a closer look at your current internship entry. I would change "design, implement" to "design and implement" or "designed and implemented." Also, make sure every line that you put to describe your experiences is descriptive and meaningful. Space is limited and you don't want your resume reader to get bogged down in non descriptive text, especially if that text doesn't demonstrate any particular skill you are wanting to make sure they know you have. For example, under your entry for your time with the American Medical Association, you have 15 bullet points. This seems like a lot of space for a resume that should be as close to one page as you can make it. I would consider combining several of these items to make a shorter, more concise list. I would also consider eliminating items that do not provide much meaningful information, e.g. Project assistant. I'm sure being a project assistant was valuable experience, but as it is now, we have no idea what that responsibility was and why it is worth mentioning. I would combine these into 3 to 5 major points that summarize your experiences. You could perhaps have one point briefly describing the cataloging and information management you did while there, one point summarizing the ways you assisted in research, one point describing your clerical and budgeting responsibilities etc. Also, I would avoid the term "routine office work" because for some reason it sounds less professional to me. Use something like clerical responsibilities or tasks etc. Also, I would elaborate on what kind of budgeting you did, how large the budget was etc. if you are going to mention it. That is certainly valuable experience to have and details could strengthen that point. You have a strong resume. It really looks like your employment history and education have well prepared you for grad school in this area. The weakest point is the length. Your resume will be far stronger if you can cut it down to one page. Be brief, describing the highlights of each position and how it added to your skill set etc. I realize this is for school and so some of these things might not sound as important because it isn't an employer who is looking at it, but the ability to express yourself with brevity is an important skill for graduate school. Your professors will be far more impressed with a concise and powerful resume. Best of luck applying to grad school. I hope this feedback was helpful. I would be glad to go through your resume with you in more detail if you would like. -Greg On Jul 28, 2012, at 1:31 PM, "Hope Paulos" wrote: > Hi there. Your resume does make sense but if I can suggest a couple of > things. It would be good if you had your education first, then your skills, > then your job experience and references. If you talk to 10 different people > about resumes, you'll get 10 different answers. So this is just a > suggestion. > Also, make sure the bulleted points are the same for each job. For the > library job you put periods (.) instead of dashes (-), which you used for > all other job duties. > HTH and I wish you all the best in your grad school endeavors. > Hope Paulos > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:25 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] resume > > *Hi all, > I'm applying to grad school. Does my updated resume make any sense? > TIA > Deb > Debra Mendelsohn* > > Deb.Mendelsohn at gmail.com > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > * * > > * * > > *Experience:* > > *Cataloging > Intern > *4/12 - Present** > > Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired (SAAVI) > > > Tucson, AZ > > - Catalog 5000 Audio Book collection > - Design Implement catalog in braille, large print and electronic format > - Design, Implement Catalog in Access Database > - Design, implement labels for material in Braille, large print, > > * * > > *Employment History:* > > > > *Research Associate* > > *Police Consultants > Inc. > *7/00- > 12/10** > > Westmont IL > > - Management of Psychology Information Center. > - Route journals to psychologists. > - Assist psychologists with research projects. > - Fill information requests in a timely manner. > > * * > > *Research Assistant* > > *American Medical Association > (AMA) *9/95 - 9/00 > > Chicago IL > > - Management of OGC Information Center > - Budget Managing > - Select and acquire new library materials > - Catalog and Process New Materials > - Route Journals to AMA staff > - Provide AMA staff with daily email informational updates > - Online Research HLAW and Corporate Law topics > - Monitor RSS Feeds for appropriate information > - Assist AMA staff with research > - Assist AMA Member Physicians with research requests. > - Assist Health Policy Librarian > - Project Assistant > - Design, Implement Maintain File Bank > - Archive AMA HLAW Documentation > - Routine office work including answering phones, sort mail > > *Desk Attendant* > > 5/95-8/95 > > *Itasca Community Library* > Itasca IL > > . Part time summer position as clerk at circulation desk, > > . Assisted patrons in person and on the phone > > . Collect fines > > . Material check-in, checkout and renewal. > > . searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan > > . Registered patrons for library cards. > > > > *Library Assistant* > > *Northeastern Illinois University* > 5/94 - 5/95 > > Chicago IL > > - Part time work-study position > - Circulation Desk > - Assist patrons in person and on the phone. > - Assisted patrons in person and on the phone > - Collect fines > - Material check-in, checkout and renewal. > - Assist Reserve Librarian > - searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > *Education: * > > * * > > *Northeastern Illinois University* > > *Chicago, IL* > > B.A. Liberal Arts GPA 3.46 1995 > > *Wright College* > > Chicago IL > > A.A. Humanities GPA 3.75 1993** > > > > , , > > > > > > > > > > * * > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 02:39:53 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:39:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] resume In-Reply-To: <261C1013-5E4B-45C0-BEB0-A3FFE8A34729@gmail.com> References: <000f01cd6cef$2e228450$8a678cf0$@gmail.com> <261C1013-5E4B-45C0-BEB0-A3FFE8A34729@gmail.com> Message-ID: It is but I am NOT going to post it online here. Deb On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > To add to what HOpe said, make sure complete contact information is at the > top of your resume. I know you are limited for space on a resume, but you > should put more than just your cell phone number. I would include an email > address and a mailing address. They probably aren't going to mail you > anything but its a pretty standard convention and the fact it is missing > stands out. > > I would also put your education first, particularly because you are > applying to school. I have never seen anyone include their GPAs on their > resume before, but again, you might be able to get away with this because > you are submitting it to schools. I would remove those when you apply for > jobs. I don't think employers generally care what your GPA was. > > Make sure your capitalization and grammar are consistent throughout. Take > a closer look at your current internship entry. I would change "design, > implement" to "design and implement" or "designed and implemented." > > Also, make sure every line that you put to describe your experiences is > descriptive and meaningful. Space is limited and you don't want your > resume reader to get bogged down in non descriptive text, especially if > that text doesn't demonstrate any particular skill you are wanting to make > sure they know you have. For example, under your entry for your time with > the American Medical Association, you have 15 bullet points. This seems > like a lot of space for a resume that should be as close to one page as you > can make it. I would consider combining several of these items to make a > shorter, more concise list. I would also consider eliminating items that > do not provide much meaningful information, e.g. Project assistant. I'm > sure being a project assistant was valuable experience, but as it is now, > we have no idea what that responsibility was and why it is worth > mentioning. I would combine these into 3 to 5 major points that summarize > your experiences. You could perhaps have one point briefly describing the > cataloging and information management you did while there, one point > summarizing the ways you assisted in research, one point describing your > clerical and budgeting responsibilities etc. Also, I would avoid the term > "routine office work" because for some reason it sounds less professional > to me. Use something like clerical responsibilities or tasks etc. Also, I > would elaborate on what kind of budgeting you did, how large the budget was > etc. if you are going to mention it. That is certainly valuable experience > to have and details could strengthen that point. > > You have a strong resume. It really looks like your employment history > and education have well prepared you for grad school in this area. The > weakest point is the length. Your resume will be far stronger if you can > cut it down to one page. Be brief, describing the highlights of each > position and how it added to your skill set etc. > > I realize this is for school and so some of these things might not sound > as important because it isn't an employer who is looking at it, but the > ability to express yourself with brevity is an important skill for graduate > school. Your professors will be far more impressed with a concise and > powerful resume. > > Best of luck applying to grad school. I hope this feedback was helpful. > I would be glad to go through your resume with you in more detail if you > would like. > > -Greg > On Jul 28, 2012, at 1:31 PM, "Hope Paulos" wrote: > > > Hi there. Your resume does make sense but if I can suggest a couple of > > things. It would be good if you had your education first, then your > skills, > > then your job experience and references. If you talk to 10 different > people > > about resumes, you'll get 10 different answers. So this is just a > > suggestion. > > Also, make sure the bulleted points are the same for each job. For the > > library job you put periods (.) instead of dashes (-), which you used for > > all other job duties. > > HTH and I wish you all the best in your grad school endeavors. > > Hope Paulos > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > > Of Deb Mendelsohn > > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:25 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] resume > > > > *Hi all, > > I'm applying to grad school. Does my updated resume make any sense? > > TIA > > Deb > > Debra Mendelsohn* > > > > Deb.Mendelsohn at gmail.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > *Experience:* > > > > *Cataloging > > Intern > > *4/12 - Present** > > > > Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired (SAAVI) > > > > > > Tucson, AZ > > > > - Catalog 5000 Audio Book collection > > - Design Implement catalog in braille, large print and electronic > format > > - Design, Implement Catalog in Access Database > > - Design, implement labels for material in Braille, large print, > > > > * * > > > > *Employment History:* > > > > > > > > *Research Associate* > > > > *Police Consultants > > Inc. > > *7/00- > > 12/10** > > > > Westmont IL > > > > - Management of Psychology Information Center. > > - Route journals to psychologists. > > - Assist psychologists with research projects. > > - Fill information requests in a timely manner. > > > > * * > > > > *Research Assistant* > > > > *American Medical Association > > (AMA) *9/95 - 9/00 > > > > Chicago IL > > > > - Management of OGC Information Center > > - Budget Managing > > - Select and acquire new library materials > > - Catalog and Process New Materials > > - Route Journals to AMA staff > > - Provide AMA staff with daily email informational updates > > - Online Research HLAW and Corporate Law topics > > - Monitor RSS Feeds for appropriate information > > - Assist AMA staff with research > > - Assist AMA Member Physicians with research requests. > > - Assist Health Policy Librarian > > - Project Assistant > > - Design, Implement Maintain File Bank > > - Archive AMA HLAW Documentation > > - Routine office work including answering phones, sort mail > > > > *Desk Attendant* > > > > 5/95-8/95 > > > > *Itasca Community Library* > > Itasca IL > > > > . Part time summer position as clerk at circulation desk, > > > > . Assisted patrons in person and on the phone > > > > . Collect fines > > > > . Material check-in, checkout and renewal. > > > > . searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan > > > > . Registered patrons for library cards. > > > > > > > > *Library Assistant* > > > > *Northeastern Illinois University* > > 5/94 - 5/95 > > > > Chicago IL > > > > - Part time work-study position > > - Circulation Desk > > - Assist patrons in person and on the phone. > > - Assisted patrons in person and on the phone > > - Collect fines > > - Material check-in, checkout and renewal. > > - Assist Reserve Librarian > > - searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > *Education: * > > > > * * > > > > *Northeastern Illinois University* > > > > *Chicago, IL* > > > > B.A. Liberal Arts GPA 3.46 1995 > > > > *Wright College* > > > > Chicago IL > > > > A.A. Humanities GPA 3.75 1993** > > > > > > > > , , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * > > > > -- > > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From gpaikens at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 02:43:00 2012 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:43:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] resume In-Reply-To: References: <000f01cd6cef$2e228450$8a678cf0$@gmail.com> <261C1013-5E4B-45C0-BEB0-A3FFE8A34729@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0B16155D-E196-4CCA-A8C6-0B16C0DE15F1@gmail.com> Good idea, I just wanted to make sure. :) On Jul 28, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Deb Mendelsohn wrote: > It is but I am NOT going to post it online here. > Deb > > On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > >> To add to what HOpe said, make sure complete contact information is at the >> top of your resume. I know you are limited for space on a resume, but you >> should put more than just your cell phone number. I would include an email >> address and a mailing address. They probably aren't going to mail you >> anything but its a pretty standard convention and the fact it is missing >> stands out. >> >> I would also put your education first, particularly because you are >> applying to school. I have never seen anyone include their GPAs on their >> resume before, but again, you might be able to get away with this because >> you are submitting it to schools. I would remove those when you apply for >> jobs. I don't think employers generally care what your GPA was. >> >> Make sure your capitalization and grammar are consistent throughout. Take >> a closer look at your current internship entry. I would change "design, >> implement" to "design and implement" or "designed and implemented." >> >> Also, make sure every line that you put to describe your experiences is >> descriptive and meaningful. Space is limited and you don't want your >> resume reader to get bogged down in non descriptive text, especially if >> that text doesn't demonstrate any particular skill you are wanting to make >> sure they know you have. For example, under your entry for your time with >> the American Medical Association, you have 15 bullet points. This seems >> like a lot of space for a resume that should be as close to one page as you >> can make it. I would consider combining several of these items to make a >> shorter, more concise list. I would also consider eliminating items that >> do not provide much meaningful information, e.g. Project assistant. I'm >> sure being a project assistant was valuable experience, but as it is now, >> we have no idea what that responsibility was and why it is worth >> mentioning. I would combine these into 3 to 5 major points that summarize >> your experiences. You could perhaps have one point briefly describing the >> cataloging and information management you did while there, one point >> summarizing the ways you assisted in research, one point describing your >> clerical and budgeting responsibilities etc. Also, I would avoid the term >> "routine office work" because for some reason it sounds less professional >> to me. Use something like clerical responsibilities or tasks etc. Also, I >> would elaborate on what kind of budgeting you did, how large the budget was >> etc. if you are going to mention it. That is certainly valuable experience >> to have and details could strengthen that point. >> >> You have a strong resume. It really looks like your employment history >> and education have well prepared you for grad school in this area. The >> weakest point is the length. Your resume will be far stronger if you can >> cut it down to one page. Be brief, describing the highlights of each >> position and how it added to your skill set etc. >> >> I realize this is for school and so some of these things might not sound >> as important because it isn't an employer who is looking at it, but the >> ability to express yourself with brevity is an important skill for graduate >> school. Your professors will be far more impressed with a concise and >> powerful resume. >> >> Best of luck applying to grad school. I hope this feedback was helpful. >> I would be glad to go through your resume with you in more detail if you >> would like. >> >> -Greg >> On Jul 28, 2012, at 1:31 PM, "Hope Paulos" wrote: >> >>> Hi there. Your resume does make sense but if I can suggest a couple of >>> things. It would be good if you had your education first, then your >> skills, >>> then your job experience and references. If you talk to 10 different >> people >>> about resumes, you'll get 10 different answers. So this is just a >>> suggestion. >>> Also, make sure the bulleted points are the same for each job. For the >>> library job you put periods (.) instead of dashes (-), which you used for >>> all other job duties. >>> HTH and I wish you all the best in your grad school endeavors. >>> Hope Paulos >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>> Of Deb Mendelsohn >>> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:25 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] resume >>> >>> *Hi all, >>> I'm applying to grad school. Does my updated resume make any sense? >>> TIA >>> Deb >>> Debra Mendelsohn* >>> >>> Deb.Mendelsohn at gmail.com >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *Experience:* >>> >>> *Cataloging >>> Intern >>> *4/12 - Present** >>> >>> Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired (SAAVI) >>> >>> >>> Tucson, AZ >>> >>> - Catalog 5000 Audio Book collection >>> - Design Implement catalog in braille, large print and electronic >> format >>> - Design, Implement Catalog in Access Database >>> - Design, implement labels for material in Braille, large print, >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *Employment History:* >>> >>> >>> >>> *Research Associate* >>> >>> *Police Consultants >>> Inc. >>> *7/00- >>> 12/10** >>> >>> Westmont IL >>> >>> - Management of Psychology Information Center. >>> - Route journals to psychologists. >>> - Assist psychologists with research projects. >>> - Fill information requests in a timely manner. >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *Research Assistant* >>> >>> *American Medical Association >>> (AMA) *9/95 - 9/00 >>> >>> Chicago IL >>> >>> - Management of OGC Information Center >>> - Budget Managing >>> - Select and acquire new library materials >>> - Catalog and Process New Materials >>> - Route Journals to AMA staff >>> - Provide AMA staff with daily email informational updates >>> - Online Research HLAW and Corporate Law topics >>> - Monitor RSS Feeds for appropriate information >>> - Assist AMA staff with research >>> - Assist AMA Member Physicians with research requests. >>> - Assist Health Policy Librarian >>> - Project Assistant >>> - Design, Implement Maintain File Bank >>> - Archive AMA HLAW Documentation >>> - Routine office work including answering phones, sort mail >>> >>> *Desk Attendant* >>> >>> 5/95-8/95 >>> >>> *Itasca Community Library* >>> Itasca IL >>> >>> . Part time summer position as clerk at circulation desk, >>> >>> . Assisted patrons in person and on the phone >>> >>> . Collect fines >>> >>> . Material check-in, checkout and renewal. >>> >>> . searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan >>> >>> . Registered patrons for library cards. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Library Assistant* >>> >>> *Northeastern Illinois University* >>> 5/94 - 5/95 >>> >>> Chicago IL >>> >>> - Part time work-study position >>> - Circulation Desk >>> - Assist patrons in person and on the phone. >>> - Assisted patrons in person and on the phone >>> - Collect fines >>> - Material check-in, checkout and renewal. >>> - Assist Reserve Librarian >>> - searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> *Education: * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *Northeastern Illinois University* >>> >>> *Chicago, IL* >>> >>> B.A. Liberal Arts GPA 3.46 1995 >>> >>> *Wright College* >>> >>> Chicago IL >>> >>> A.A. Humanities GPA 3.75 1993** >>> >>> >>> >>> , , >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * * >>> >>> -- >>> *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 02:44:29 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:44:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] resume In-Reply-To: <261C1013-5E4B-45C0-BEB0-A3FFE8A34729@gmail.com> References: <000f01cd6cef$2e228450$8a678cf0$@gmail.com> <261C1013-5E4B-45C0-BEB0-A3FFE8A34729@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg, My job developer at SAAVI told me 2 pages, however I am going to combine bullets and put education first. Thank you. Deb On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Greg Aikens wrote: > To add to what HOpe said, make sure complete contact information is at the > top of your resume. I know you are limited for space on a resume, but you > should put more than just your cell phone number. I would include an email > address and a mailing address. They probably aren't going to mail you > anything but its a pretty standard convention and the fact it is missing > stands out. > > I would also put your education first, particularly because you are > applying to school. I have never seen anyone include their GPAs on their > resume before, but again, you might be able to get away with this because > you are submitting it to schools. I would remove those when you apply for > jobs. I don't think employers generally care what your GPA was. > > Make sure your capitalization and grammar are consistent throughout. Take > a closer look at your current internship entry. I would change "design, > implement" to "design and implement" or "designed and implemented." > > Also, make sure every line that you put to describe your experiences is > descriptive and meaningful. Space is limited and you don't want your > resume reader to get bogged down in non descriptive text, especially if > that text doesn't demonstrate any particular skill you are wanting to make > sure they know you have. For example, under your entry for your time with > the American Medical Association, you have 15 bullet points. This seems > like a lot of space for a resume that should be as close to one page as you > can make it. I would consider combining several of these items to make a > shorter, more concise list. I would also consider eliminating items that > do not provide much meaningful information, e.g. Project assistant. I'm > sure being a project assistant was valuable experience, but as it is now, > we have no idea what that responsibility was and why it is worth > mentioning. I would combine these into 3 to 5 major points that summarize > your experiences. You could perhaps have one point briefly describing the > cataloging and information management you did while there, one point > summarizing the ways you assisted in research, one point describing your > clerical and budgeting responsibilities etc. Also, I would avoid the term > "routine office work" because for some reason it sounds less professional > to me. Use something like clerical responsibilities or tasks etc. Also, I > would elaborate on what kind of budgeting you did, how large the budget was > etc. if you are going to mention it. That is certainly valuable experience > to have and details could strengthen that point. > > You have a strong resume. It really looks like your employment history > and education have well prepared you for grad school in this area. The > weakest point is the length. Your resume will be far stronger if you can > cut it down to one page. Be brief, describing the highlights of each > position and how it added to your skill set etc. > > I realize this is for school and so some of these things might not sound > as important because it isn't an employer who is looking at it, but the > ability to express yourself with brevity is an important skill for graduate > school. Your professors will be far more impressed with a concise and > powerful resume. > > Best of luck applying to grad school. I hope this feedback was helpful. > I would be glad to go through your resume with you in more detail if you > would like. > > -Greg > On Jul 28, 2012, at 1:31 PM, "Hope Paulos" wrote: > > > Hi there. Your resume does make sense but if I can suggest a couple of > > things. It would be good if you had your education first, then your > skills, > > then your job experience and references. If you talk to 10 different > people > > about resumes, you'll get 10 different answers. So this is just a > > suggestion. > > Also, make sure the bulleted points are the same for each job. For the > > library job you put periods (.) instead of dashes (-), which you used for > > all other job duties. > > HTH and I wish you all the best in your grad school endeavors. > > Hope Paulos > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > > Of Deb Mendelsohn > > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 2:25 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] resume > > > > *Hi all, > > I'm applying to grad school. Does my updated resume make any sense? > > TIA > > Deb > > Debra Mendelsohn* > > > > Deb.Mendelsohn at gmail.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > *Experience:* > > > > *Cataloging > > Intern > > *4/12 - Present** > > > > Southern Arizona Association for the Visually Impaired (SAAVI) > > > > > > Tucson, AZ > > > > - Catalog 5000 Audio Book collection > > - Design Implement catalog in braille, large print and electronic > format > > - Design, Implement Catalog in Access Database > > - Design, implement labels for material in Braille, large print, > > > > * * > > > > *Employment History:* > > > > > > > > *Research Associate* > > > > *Police Consultants > > Inc. > > *7/00- > > 12/10** > > > > Westmont IL > > > > - Management of Psychology Information Center. > > - Route journals to psychologists. > > - Assist psychologists with research projects. > > - Fill information requests in a timely manner. > > > > * * > > > > *Research Assistant* > > > > *American Medical Association > > (AMA) *9/95 - 9/00 > > > > Chicago IL > > > > - Management of OGC Information Center > > - Budget Managing > > - Select and acquire new library materials > > - Catalog and Process New Materials > > - Route Journals to AMA staff > > - Provide AMA staff with daily email informational updates > > - Online Research HLAW and Corporate Law topics > > - Monitor RSS Feeds for appropriate information > > - Assist AMA staff with research > > - Assist AMA Member Physicians with research requests. > > - Assist Health Policy Librarian > > - Project Assistant > > - Design, Implement Maintain File Bank > > - Archive AMA HLAW Documentation > > - Routine office work including answering phones, sort mail > > > > *Desk Attendant* > > > > 5/95-8/95 > > > > *Itasca Community Library* > > Itasca IL > > > > . Part time summer position as clerk at circulation desk, > > > > . Assisted patrons in person and on the phone > > > > . Collect fines > > > > . Material check-in, checkout and renewal. > > > > . searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan > > > > . Registered patrons for library cards. > > > > > > > > *Library Assistant* > > > > *Northeastern Illinois University* > > 5/94 - 5/95 > > > > Chicago IL > > > > - Part time work-study position > > - Circulation Desk > > - Assist patrons in person and on the phone. > > - Assisted patrons in person and on the phone > > - Collect fines > > - Material check-in, checkout and renewal. > > - Assist Reserve Librarian > > - searched for and prepared materials for inter-library loan > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > *Education: * > > > > * * > > > > *Northeastern Illinois University* > > > > *Chicago, IL* > > > > B.A. Liberal Arts GPA 3.46 1995 > > > > *Wright College* > > > > Chicago IL > > > > A.A. Humanities GPA 3.75 1993** > > > > > > > > , , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * > > > > -- > > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 04:29:58 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 22:29:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: Hi Mary and all, I think that if NABS were to set up a tutoring program, there would need to be some clear guidelines in place to prevent plagiarism. For example, at the athletic center where I tutor, we are not allowed to write comments directly on a student's paper, but instead must provide feedback in verbal form during the meeting. This may or may not be practical for long-distance tutoring, but we could make a rule that, for example, tutors cannot directly revise students' papers, but must only use the comments feature in Track Changes to offer suggestions. Similar rules should also govern math tutoring (not solving a problem for a student but guiding them through calculations). That said, I think volunteer tutors will be less tempted to overhelp their students or do things bordering on cheating than will paid tutors, who may be concerned enough about their jobs to want to ensure their students are successful. Also, I don't think professors care much about who is tutoring their students, or are even aware that their student is getting tutoring sometimes. Obviously if a student's performance suddenly becomes excellent, a professor may get suspicious, but if the student and tutor are truly working together in a non-cheating way, the student should be able to justify the use of the tutor regardless of where the tutor comes from. Students often get support from tutors who are not affiliated with their college or university. I agree that it is generally wise to start by looking for tutoring "in-house" but I also think that blind tutors can offer a lot more than sighted tutors can, for certain subjects, because they can provide guidance in the alternative techniques used to handle the course material in addition to the course material itself. Best, Arielle On 7/27/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hi All, > I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it available > in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even if you get > straight A's you can only improve your writing or math skills if you > sit with someone else who can look over your work and give you > constructive feedback. > As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... > I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a > university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they > consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear this > idea up with individual professors. Especially if your university > offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be hesitant to > ok an outside source, unless there is some clear advantage, or this > source has specialized knowledge. For instance, Arielle is great at > SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS in school, most of > these tutors have never even heard of screen access software. In this > instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. > But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house > tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. > Thanks. > Mary > > On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and >> don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we >> can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community >> service hours or something. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Koby >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success >> >> Arielle, >> Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at >> college? >> >> Right back soon, >> Koby. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >>> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >>> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >>> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >>> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, >> >>> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to >> >>> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who >>> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no >>> stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring >> >>> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >>> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that >> >>> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary >>> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >>> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students >>> who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is >>> struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester >>> and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should >>> worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your >> >>> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >>> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >>> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service >>> where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind >> >>> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >>> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you >> >>> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >>> papers or provide general research advice. >>> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, >>> but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract >>> goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out >>> if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals >>> could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as >>> specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of >>> blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let >>> fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range >>> goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon >>> some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them >>> out of your way. >>> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds >>> awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in >>> class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, >>> I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with >>> hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is >> >>> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue >>> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind >> >>> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the >> >>> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >>> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >>> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >>> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >>> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >>> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try >> >>> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >>> having before? >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory 2012 > "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes > up her burdens and walks toward the future." > -- > Laurel Thatcher Ulrich > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 16:00:30 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:00:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <295C8372E09A4C47893801BB36CBD0BE@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, We should do this! If the tutors do like a [please take a look at this] [pore?] {good? Something better] and stuff like that in the brackets I believe that would keep plagiarism down. As for Astronomy and other science topics, they should do like a Skype study session. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success Hi Mary and all, I think that if NABS were to set up a tutoring program, there would need to be some clear guidelines in place to prevent plagiarism. For example, at the athletic center where I tutor, we are not allowed to write comments directly on a student's paper, but instead must provide feedback in verbal form during the meeting. This may or may not be practical for long-distance tutoring, but we could make a rule that, for example, tutors cannot directly revise students' papers, but must only use the comments feature in Track Changes to offer suggestions. Similar rules should also govern math tutoring (not solving a problem for a student but guiding them through calculations). That said, I think volunteer tutors will be less tempted to overhelp their students or do things bordering on cheating than will paid tutors, who may be concerned enough about their jobs to want to ensure their students are successful. Also, I don't think professors care much about who is tutoring their students, or are even aware that their student is getting tutoring sometimes. Obviously if a student's performance suddenly becomes excellent, a professor may get suspicious, but if the student and tutor are truly working together in a non-cheating way, the student should be able to justify the use of the tutor regardless of where the tutor comes from. Students often get support from tutors who are not affiliated with their college or university. I agree that it is generally wise to start by looking for tutoring "in-house" but I also think that blind tutors can offer a lot more than sighted tutors can, for certain subjects, because they can provide guidance in the alternative techniques used to handle the course material in addition to the course material itself. Best, Arielle On 7/27/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hi All, > I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it available > in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even if you get > straight A's you can only improve your writing or math skills if you > sit with someone else who can look over your work and give you > constructive feedback. > As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... > I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a > university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they > consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear this > idea up with individual professors. Especially if your university > offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be hesitant to > ok an outside source, unless there is some clear advantage, or this > source has specialized knowledge. For instance, Arielle is great at > SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS in school, most of > these tutors have never even heard of screen access software. In this > instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. > But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house > tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. > Thanks. > Mary > > On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and >> don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we >> can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community >> service hours or something. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Koby >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success >> >> Arielle, >> Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at >> college? >> >> Right back soon, >> Koby. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >>> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >>> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >>> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >>> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, >> >>> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to >> >>> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who >>> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no >>> stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring >> >>> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >>> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that >> >>> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary >>> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >>> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students >>> who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is >>> struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester >>> and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should >>> worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your >> >>> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >>> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >>> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service >>> where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind >> >>> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >>> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you >> >>> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >>> papers or provide general research advice. >>> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, >>> but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract >>> goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out >>> if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals >>> could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as >>> specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of >>> blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let >>> fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range >>> goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon >>> some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them >>> out of your way. >>> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds >>> awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in >>> class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, >>> I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with >>> hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is >> >>> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue >>> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind >> >>> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the >> >>> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >>> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >>> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >>> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >>> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >>> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try >> >>> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >>> having before? >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory 2012 > "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes > up her burdens and walks toward the future." > -- > Laurel Thatcher Ulrich > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Jul 29 17:02:16 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 12:02:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Intern Helps with Archives Message-ID: > >Hi everyone, > >I received this message from my friend Sierra, who was a national >scholarship winner this year. I have pasted it below. > >* * * > >As most of you know, I have spent the last two summers interning at >the National Archives in the Office of Presidential Libraries. Last >summer, while doing research for the anniversary of the Americans with >Disabilities act of 1990, I discovered NARA did not have a digital >copy of the ADA. Surprised that this landmark legislation was missing, >I talked to my supervisor about adding a copy to the library's digital >catalog. That one conversation has grown into a web resource featuring >a variety of records relating to Americans with disabilities from all >of the Presidential Libraries. The resource went live this week on >NARA's website at: >http://www.archives.gov/research/americans-with-disabilities/ >You should check it out. There are over 50 records ranging from Helen >Keller's letters to President Hoover to photos of the dinner >President Clinton gave to honor the Special Olympics. I especially >like the Braille letter a 13 year old boy sent to President >Eisenhower. > > >The resource was designed with accessibility in mind. For example, >each textual document has a corresponding transcript. If, while >looking around the page, you find any problems please let me know in >the next two weeks so I can work on getting them fixed before I leave >Washington D.C. > > >One last thing, the Archives is really promoting the site this week on >social media including Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. Please check out >the National Archives Facebook/Twitter pages and help us get the word >out about this cool resource. > > >Thank you, >Sierra > >-- >Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind >of Missouri recording secretary, >Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, >and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind > >"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >life." >John 3:16 > >_______________________________________________ >Nfbmo mailing list >Nfbmo at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmo: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 17:26:21 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:26:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: <8CF298223908443ABE96F022C31DD366@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com> <2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid> <-3085492331653129018@unknownmsgid> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BE3@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <8CF298223908443ABE96F022C31DD366@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi Brandon, That's an interesting question. I guess the issue is, What happens if you only take 17 units per semester? Does this mean it will take you longer to graduate than if you took 19 or 22 units? If your education is being funded by rehab or something comparable and they have a strict limit on how many semesters you can take to graduate, you might be able to justify speeding up the process so that you can graduate in the required time frame with the honors and additional majors/minors that you are seeking. However, while I agree that blind job applicants generally benefit from being over-qualified, I don't think taking extra classes in fewer semesters increases your qualifications. It speeds up the process of getting the degrees, but I'd think you would be taking the same classes anyway, regardless of whether you pack 20 units into 9 semesters or 15 units into 12, it's still 180 units. I took honors, got a double major and managed to get it done in 9 semesters taking between 13 and 17 credits per semester. Some of my friends "overloaded" by taking 18 or more per semester and I never understood why they did that or what the advantage was. I liked keeping myself busy in college but I also was glad to have a life and a balanced sleep schedule. Best, Arielle On 7/26/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I wonder if there is a way to justify taking more than the max units for > college because I'm blind? I'm pretty sure it's no difficulty to justify > taking less, but the California State University just put a cap at 17 units > > that is really being enforced and that extra 2 or 5 units really makes a > difference for us honors folks. > Perhaps that if I don't get the education from these heavy loads of classes, > > I will end up not being as marketable as my sighted counterparts. In order > to compete I need to be more qualified for the job and know my subject more > > because many employers discount me because of my blindness. These classes > will broaden my qualifications and increase my chances of employment. > > I'm just wondering if it's possible to make people believe I can do more > rather than less because of my blindness? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Wasif, Zunaira > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:02 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what > todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Desiree > If you really feel like you can't handle 3 classes your first semester, > contact your state office and explain your particular situation. Most > policies have exceptions and you need to advocate for yourself. The > other thing you can do is take really easy classes this first semester. > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Desiree, > I would suggest that you go ahead and try taking 12 credit hours. The > worst thing that could happen to you is that things don't work out and > you have to drop out of college, but at least you will have tried your > best. Pick aa major that you think you like, and don't necessarily take > problematic classes on your first semester. I'm sure you will find > enough resources around you that will help you to do well. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 25, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > >> Hi, >> Maybe I should have been a little clearer. What I mean is, students >> who only receive SSI and have no secondary funding sources such as >> parents are going to have to take that 12 or more credits because >> rehab is the only way they'll get through college without being buried > >> up to their heads in unnecessary debt. I'm one of those people. I have > >> enough stress in my life without worrying about debt, because if and >> when it ever comes time for me to raise a family, I don't still want >> to have to pay that off while trying to raise my kids. There's no >> guarantee in this economy for employment. It has absolutely nothing to > >> do with blindness, just common sense, most people are struggling right > >> now with the way things are. I wouldn't expect my parents to help pay >> for my education even if they could afford it, because I'm not that >> selfish, nor do I expect handouts. But I do know that if rehab pays >> for it, I'm not a special case, and they can put whatever rules in >> place they need to to make it fair for everyone. >> My counselor said that 12 credits is the minimum requirement. He said >> that if I felt I could take more than that, more power to me. I guess >> I'm just questioning if I can really jump in and start with 12 >> credits. So what I meant by the fact that sighted students can choose >> is, if they want to start out by taking a class or two at a community >> college, they can. Community colleges don't charge that much, and if >> they have a job, they can most likely pay out of pocket. For someone >> who only has SSI, even that's not practical. That's where we're >> limited in our freedom of choice. We must take all or nothing, or >> forge our own path that doesn't involve rehab. >> >> On 7/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do >>> sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load >>> is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students >>> don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and >>> student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >>>> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >>>> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't > we? >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Ignosi, >>>>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>>>> different. >>>>> >>>>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>>>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>>>> years. >>>>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>>>> listened to mine so could not take short cuts. >>>>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially >>>>> in upper >>>>> >>>>> level classes. >>>>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say >>>>> 12 credits isn't a lot of work. >>>>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>>>> finished >>>>> >>>>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm >>>>> taking writing classes applicable to business like technical >>>>> editing and business writing. >>>>> >>>>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the >>>>> semester including multiple papers. >>>>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you >>>>> can handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>>>> >>>>> college >>>>> >>>>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>>>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need > >>>>> to exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these > >>>>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) Then, they >>>>>> told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>>>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go >>>>>> back to get a real degree! >>>>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order >>>>>> to do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work > >>>>>> for VR. >>>>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started >>>>>> in 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so >>>>>>> you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. >>>>>>> It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you >>>>>>> weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about >>>>>>> people being privileged was that some people don't go to college >>>>>>> because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, >>>>>>> which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are >>>>>>> pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the > parents pay for them to go. >>>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party > >>>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying >>>>>>> is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high >>>>>>> school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going > >>>>>>> to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I >>>>>>> know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. >>>>>>> They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it > >>>>>>> up and having a grand old time because it's the first time >>>>>>> they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can > >>>>>>> and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza >>>>>>> every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It >>>>>>> would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get > >>>>>>> a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society > that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really >>>>>>> don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and >>>>>>> kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old > >>>>>>> kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids > >>>>>>> up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty > passive back then. >>>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. > >>>>>>> Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think >>>>>>> Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though > >>>>>>> is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the >>>>>>> same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very >>>>>>> unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my > >>>>>>> life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds >>>>>>> like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to >>>>>>> fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for >>>>>>> college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that >>>>>>> would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and > find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the > >>>>>>>> college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They >>>>>>>> should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants >>>>>>>> with your academic situation. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>>> things back. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>>> they pay for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval >>>>>>>> for financial reasons. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>>> if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much >>>>>>>> about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college >>>>>>>> can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>>> stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I >>>>>>>> don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>>> should just go and tell them that you're going and you need >>>>>>>> this, this and this in order to be independent. You need to have > >>>>>>>> a technology assessment by a professional blind technology >>>>>>>> person and it's your right to get that assessment. If your >>>>>>>> counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >>>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>>>>>> succeeding in college and if they want you to pass your classes, > >>>>>>>> you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't someone with > >>>>>>>> time to worry about a technology failure, you really need an >>>>>>>> apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >>>>>>>> in the world. >>>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>>> you want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, >>>>>>>> you need to have a Mac. >>>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>>> for you. They will only guide you if you let them. you must be >>>>>>>> sure, un moving and firm that this is what you want and there is > >>>>>>>> nothing better you can have, even though there may be things >>>>>>>> you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and independence >>>>>>>> is the way. >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>>> working computerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>>> apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>>> assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency >>>>>>>> for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health > >>>>>>>> group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of >>>>>>>> this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment >>>>>>>> to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab > >>>>>>>> and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the >>>>>>>> work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart >>>>>>>> before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > >>>>>>>> people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462% >>>>>>>> 4 >>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower1 >>>>>>>> 7%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e >>>>> arthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From cbuckley at pdx.edu Sun Jul 29 18:43:42 2012 From: cbuckley at pdx.edu (Chrys Buckley) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:43:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: <295C8372E09A4C47893801BB36CBD0BE@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <295C8372E09A4C47893801BB36CBD0BE@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: This is a great idea and I would definitely be on board for this. I actually work at my school's tutoring center and tutor all different kinds of science classes so would be happy to help in that realm. I also used to do freelance copy/content editing for about six years, so would be happy to help in that realm too. At the Learning Center where I work, the policy is that we can't help with anything that is being turned in for a grade, especially if it's a take-home exam of some sort. If it's a homework assignment, we can help as long as the student has put in some effort trying to solve it first. In general though, we try to work on things that aren't direct assignments, like understanding concepts, going through suggested problems at the back of the book, etc, to help students really master the concepts as opposed to just understand something momentarily to get the better grade. Chrys On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs < brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > We should do this! > If the tutors do like a [please take a look at this] [pore?] {good? > Something better] > and stuff like that in the brackets I believe that would keep plagiarism > down. > As for Astronomy and other science topics, they should do like a Skype > study session. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:29 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success > > Hi Mary and all, > I think that if NABS were to set up a tutoring program, there would > need to be some clear guidelines in place to prevent plagiarism. For > example, at the athletic center where I tutor, we are not allowed to > write comments directly on a student's paper, but instead must provide > feedback in verbal form during the meeting. This may or may not be > practical for long-distance tutoring, but we could make a rule that, > for example, tutors cannot directly revise students' papers, but must > only use the comments feature in Track Changes to offer suggestions. > Similar rules should also govern math tutoring (not solving a problem > for a student but guiding them through calculations). > That said, I think volunteer tutors will be less tempted to overhelp > their students or do things bordering on cheating than will paid > tutors, who may be concerned enough about their jobs to want to ensure > their students are successful. Also, I don't think professors care > much about who is tutoring their students, or are even aware that > their student is getting tutoring sometimes. Obviously if a student's > performance suddenly becomes excellent, a professor may get > suspicious, but if the student and tutor are truly working together in > a non-cheating way, the student should be able to justify the use of > the tutor regardless of where the tutor comes from. Students often get > support from tutors who are not affiliated with their college or > university. > I agree that it is generally wise to start by looking for tutoring > "in-house" but I also think that blind tutors can offer a lot more > than sighted tutors can, for certain subjects, because they can > provide guidance in the alternative techniques used to handle the > course material in addition to the course material itself. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/27/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > >> Hi All, >> I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it available >> in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even if you get >> straight A's you can only improve your writing or math skills if you >> sit with someone else who can look over your work and give you >> constructive feedback. >> As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... >> I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a >> university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they >> consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear this >> idea up with individual professors. Especially if your university >> offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be hesitant to >> ok an outside source, unless there is some clear advantage, or this >> source has specialized knowledge. For instance, Arielle is great at >> SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS in school, most of >> these tutors have never even heard of screen access software. In this >> instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. >> But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house >> tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. >> Thanks. >> Mary >> >> On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> >>> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and >>> don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we >>> can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community >>> service hours or something. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Koby >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success >>> >>> Arielle, >>> Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at >>> college? >>> >>> Right back soon, >>> Koby. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>>> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >>>> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >>>> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >>>> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >>>> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, >>>> >>> >>> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to >>>> >>> >>> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who >>>> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no >>>> stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring >>>> >>> >>> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >>>> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that >>>> >>> >>> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary >>>> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >>>> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students >>>> who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is >>>> struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester >>>> and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should >>>> worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your >>>> >>> >>> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >>>> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >>>> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service >>>> where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind >>>> >>> >>> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >>>> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you >>>> >>> >>> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >>>> papers or provide general research advice. >>>> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, >>>> but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract >>>> goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out >>>> if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals >>>> could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as >>>> specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of >>>> blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let >>>> fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range >>>> goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon >>>> some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them >>>> out of your way. >>>> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds >>>> awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in >>>> class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, >>>> I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with >>>> hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is >>>> >>> >>> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue >>>> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind >>>> >>> >>> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the >>>> >>> >>> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >>>> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >>>> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >>>> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >>>> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >>>> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try >>>> >>> >>> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >>>> having before? >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> kobycox%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> zunaira.wasif%40dbs >>> . >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory 2012 >> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes >> up her burdens and walks toward the future." >> -- >> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**cbuckley%40pdx.edu > -- http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Jul 29 19:52:45 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:52:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: <64FE0DBFEE96478BADC87377E4E8884B@OwnerPC> Ariele, Good idea; especially to have a tutor for more visual subjects like the sciences and math and stats classes. Giving feedback and suggestions isn't cheating. In my college experience, cheating was when students did not cite sources or blatently copied another paper from another student or the internet. I've not heard of students being acused of cheating by using a tutor. As long as the tutor did not do the work for the student, I don't see how they could even suspect cheating. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 12:29 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success Hi Mary and all, I think that if NABS were to set up a tutoring program, there would need to be some clear guidelines in place to prevent plagiarism. For example, at the athletic center where I tutor, we are not allowed to write comments directly on a student's paper, but instead must provide feedback in verbal form during the meeting. This may or may not be practical for long-distance tutoring, but we could make a rule that, for example, tutors cannot directly revise students' papers, but must only use the comments feature in Track Changes to offer suggestions. Similar rules should also govern math tutoring (not solving a problem for a student but guiding them through calculations). That said, I think volunteer tutors will be less tempted to overhelp their students or do things bordering on cheating than will paid tutors, who may be concerned enough about their jobs to want to ensure their students are successful. Also, I don't think professors care much about who is tutoring their students, or are even aware that their student is getting tutoring sometimes. Obviously if a student's performance suddenly becomes excellent, a professor may get suspicious, but if the student and tutor are truly working together in a non-cheating way, the student should be able to justify the use of the tutor regardless of where the tutor comes from. Students often get support from tutors who are not affiliated with their college or university. I agree that it is generally wise to start by looking for tutoring "in-house" but I also think that blind tutors can offer a lot more than sighted tutors can, for certain subjects, because they can provide guidance in the alternative techniques used to handle the course material in addition to the course material itself. Best, Arielle On 7/27/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hi All, > I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it available > in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even if you get > straight A's you can only improve your writing or math skills if you > sit with someone else who can look over your work and give you > constructive feedback. > As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... > I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a > university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they > consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear this > idea up with individual professors. Especially if your university > offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be hesitant to > ok an outside source, unless there is some clear advantage, or this > source has specialized knowledge. For instance, Arielle is great at > SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS in school, most of > these tutors have never even heard of screen access software. In this > instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. > But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house > tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. > Thanks. > Mary > > On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and >> don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we >> can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community >> service hours or something. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Koby >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success >> >> Arielle, >> Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at >> college? >> >> Right back soon, >> Koby. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >>> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >>> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >>> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >>> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, >> >>> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to >> >>> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who >>> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no >>> stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring >> >>> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >>> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that >> >>> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary >>> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >>> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students >>> who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is >>> struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester >>> and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should >>> worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your >> >>> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >>> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >>> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service >>> where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind >> >>> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >>> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you >> >>> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >>> papers or provide general research advice. >>> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, >>> but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract >>> goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out >>> if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals >>> could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as >>> specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of >>> blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let >>> fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range >>> goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon >>> some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them >>> out of your way. >>> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds >>> awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in >>> class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, >>> I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with >>> hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is >> >>> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue >>> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind >> >>> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the >> >>> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >>> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >>> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >>> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >>> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >>> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try >> >>> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >>> having before? >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory 2012 > "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes > up her burdens and walks toward the future." > -- > Laurel Thatcher Ulrich > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 21:04:59 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:04:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><295C8372E09A4C47893801BB36CBD0BE@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <96E1297A02A749BB9393EDEF6A4D665A@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, On another note, some schools have places where you can send your paper to get da engrish checked for airs. I love those kinds of programs and I suggest anyone with a screne reeder do this because inn the heet of tiping, sometimes hour words get a little micksed up. Thancs, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Chrys Buckley Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 11:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success This is a great idea and I would definitely be on board for this. I actually work at my school's tutoring center and tutor all different kinds of science classes so would be happy to help in that realm. I also used to do freelance copy/content editing for about six years, so would be happy to help in that realm too. At the Learning Center where I work, the policy is that we can't help with anything that is being turned in for a grade, especially if it's a take-home exam of some sort. If it's a homework assignment, we can help as long as the student has put in some effort trying to solve it first. In general though, we try to work on things that aren't direct assignments, like understanding concepts, going through suggested problems at the back of the book, etc, to help students really master the concepts as opposed to just understand something momentarily to get the better grade. Chrys On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs < brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > We should do this! > If the tutors do like a [please take a look at this] [pore?] {good? > Something better] > and stuff like that in the brackets I believe that would keep plagiarism > down. > As for Astronomy and other science topics, they should do like a Skype > study session. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:29 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success > > Hi Mary and all, > I think that if NABS were to set up a tutoring program, there would > need to be some clear guidelines in place to prevent plagiarism. For > example, at the athletic center where I tutor, we are not allowed to > write comments directly on a student's paper, but instead must provide > feedback in verbal form during the meeting. This may or may not be > practical for long-distance tutoring, but we could make a rule that, > for example, tutors cannot directly revise students' papers, but must > only use the comments feature in Track Changes to offer suggestions. > Similar rules should also govern math tutoring (not solving a problem > for a student but guiding them through calculations). > That said, I think volunteer tutors will be less tempted to overhelp > their students or do things bordering on cheating than will paid > tutors, who may be concerned enough about their jobs to want to ensure > their students are successful. Also, I don't think professors care > much about who is tutoring their students, or are even aware that > their student is getting tutoring sometimes. Obviously if a student's > performance suddenly becomes excellent, a professor may get > suspicious, but if the student and tutor are truly working together in > a non-cheating way, the student should be able to justify the use of > the tutor regardless of where the tutor comes from. Students often get > support from tutors who are not affiliated with their college or > university. > I agree that it is generally wise to start by looking for tutoring > "in-house" but I also think that blind tutors can offer a lot more > than sighted tutors can, for certain subjects, because they can > provide guidance in the alternative techniques used to handle the > course material in addition to the course material itself. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/27/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > >> Hi All, >> I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it available >> in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even if you get >> straight A's you can only improve your writing or math skills if you >> sit with someone else who can look over your work and give you >> constructive feedback. >> As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... >> I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a >> university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they >> consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear this >> idea up with individual professors. Especially if your university >> offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be hesitant to >> ok an outside source, unless there is some clear advantage, or this >> source has specialized knowledge. For instance, Arielle is great at >> SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS in school, most of >> these tutors have never even heard of screen access software. In this >> instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. >> But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house >> tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. >> Thanks. >> Mary >> >> On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> >>> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring and >>> don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. Maybe we >>> can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get community >>> service hours or something. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Koby >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success >>> >>> Arielle, >>> Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at >>> college? >>> >>> Right back soon, >>> Koby. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>>> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >>>> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >>>> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >>>> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >>>> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend helps, >>>> >>> >>> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able to >>>> >>> >>> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes who >>>> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is no >>>> stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a tutoring >>>> >>> >>> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >>>> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be that >>>> >>> >>> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they vary >>>> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >>>> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with students >>>> who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student who is >>>> struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the semester >>>> and to watch them get better over time. I don't think anyone should >>>> worry about being judged or laughed at by a professional tutor at your >>>> >>> >>> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >>>> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >>>> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring service >>>> where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to other blind >>>> >>> >>> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >>>> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of you >>>> >>> >>> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >>>> papers or provide general research advice. >>>> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career goals, >>>> but it might be good to sit down and think about what your abstract >>>> goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then figure out >>>> if a college degree would help make those goals happen. These goals >>>> could be something as general as "earn enough to get off SSI" or as >>>> specific as "make a lasting positive impression on the education of >>>> blind children in this country". If it would, then please don't let >>>> fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. Keep the long-range >>>> goals in mind throughout the process, and if you fail or come upon >>>> some obstacles, think about what you can do differently to clear them >>>> out of your way. >>>> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education sounds >>>> awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a Brailler in >>>> class should never be determined by other kids' preferences. However, >>>> I truly believe that you can recover from these early setbacks with >>>> hard work and determination, if the prize--your ultimate life goal--is >>>> >>> >>> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to dialogue >>>> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other blind >>>> >>> >>> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of the >>>> >>> >>> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >>>> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >>>> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >>>> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >>>> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >>>> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or try >>>> >>> >>> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >>>> having before? >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> kobycox%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> zunaira.wasif%40dbs >>> . >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory 2012 >> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes >> up her burdens and walks toward the future." >> -- >> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> arielle71%40gmail.com >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**cbuckley%40pdx.edu > -- http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 21:08:05 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:08:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege In-Reply-To: References: <5009f505.45f2320a.3e4a.0971@mx.google.com><2263454439374340321@unknownmsgid><-3085492331653129018@unknownmsgid><2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BE3@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><8CF298223908443ABE96F022C31DD366@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello, the college is the one with the limit on the units and rehab is the one with the limit on years. In the college I'm at, the highest credit class is 4 units, so between 17 and 21 I could take a core class. With an extra core class for all 3 years I will be at my college, that could be potentially 9 classes which equals 36 units . That's enough for a minor. Although most people won't be taking that kind of load every quarter, it's a huge disadvantage in the sense that sighted people are disadvantaged by their 17 units, and we're disadvantaged by our blindness. If we are also disadvantaged by our 17 units, we have that less education as well as our blindness to contend with. This can make us doubly disadvantaged in the work place! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and whattodotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege Hi Brandon, That's an interesting question. I guess the issue is, What happens if you only take 17 units per semester? Does this mean it will take you longer to graduate than if you took 19 or 22 units? If your education is being funded by rehab or something comparable and they have a strict limit on how many semesters you can take to graduate, you might be able to justify speeding up the process so that you can graduate in the required time frame with the honors and additional majors/minors that you are seeking. However, while I agree that blind job applicants generally benefit from being over-qualified, I don't think taking extra classes in fewer semesters increases your qualifications. It speeds up the process of getting the degrees, but I'd think you would be taking the same classes anyway, regardless of whether you pack 20 units into 9 semesters or 15 units into 12, it's still 180 units. I took honors, got a double major and managed to get it done in 9 semesters taking between 13 and 17 credits per semester. Some of my friends "overloaded" by taking 18 or more per semester and I never understood why they did that or what the advantage was. I liked keeping myself busy in college but I also was glad to have a life and a balanced sleep schedule. Best, Arielle On 7/26/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I wonder if there is a way to justify taking more than the max units for > college because I'm blind? I'm pretty sure it's no difficulty to justify > taking less, but the California State University just put a cap at 17 > units > > that is really being enforced and that extra 2 or 5 units really makes a > difference for us honors folks. > Perhaps that if I don't get the education from these heavy loads of > classes, > > I will end up not being as marketable as my sighted counterparts. In order > to compete I need to be more qualified for the job and know my subject > more > > because many employers discount me because of my blindness. These classes > will broaden my qualifications and increase my chances of employment. > > I'm just wondering if it's possible to make people believe I can do more > rather than less because of my blindness? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Wasif, Zunaira > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:02 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what > todotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Desiree > If you really feel like you can't handle 3 classes your first semester, > contact your state office and explain your particular situation. Most > policies have exceptions and you need to advocate for yourself. The > other thing you can do is take really easy classes this first semester. > Zunaira > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to > dotogetaworkingcomputerforcollege > > Desiree, > I would suggest that you go ahead and try taking 12 credit hours. The > worst thing that could happen to you is that things don't work out and > you have to drop out of college, but at least you will have tried your > best. Pick aa major that you think you like, and don't necessarily take > problematic classes on your first semester. I'm sure you will find > enough resources around you that will help you to do well. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 25, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Desiree Oudinot > wrote: > >> Hi, >> Maybe I should have been a little clearer. What I mean is, students >> who only receive SSI and have no secondary funding sources such as >> parents are going to have to take that 12 or more credits because >> rehab is the only way they'll get through college without being buried > >> up to their heads in unnecessary debt. I'm one of those people. I have > >> enough stress in my life without worrying about debt, because if and >> when it ever comes time for me to raise a family, I don't still want >> to have to pay that off while trying to raise my kids. There's no >> guarantee in this economy for employment. It has absolutely nothing to > >> do with blindness, just common sense, most people are struggling right > >> now with the way things are. I wouldn't expect my parents to help pay >> for my education even if they could afford it, because I'm not that >> selfish, nor do I expect handouts. But I do know that if rehab pays >> for it, I'm not a special case, and they can put whatever rules in >> place they need to to make it fair for everyone. >> My counselor said that 12 credits is the minimum requirement. He said >> that if I felt I could take more than that, more power to me. I guess >> I'm just questioning if I can really jump in and start with 12 >> credits. So what I meant by the fact that sighted students can choose >> is, if they want to start out by taking a class or two at a community >> college, they can. Community colleges don't charge that much, and if >> they have a job, they can most likely pay out of pocket. For someone >> who only has SSI, even that's not practical. That's where we're >> limited in our freedom of choice. We must take all or nothing, or >> forge our own path that doesn't involve rehab. >> >> On 7/24/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> We have as much freedom to choose how many courses to take as do >>> sighted people. The only time we are restricted to doing a full load >>> is if someone like VR is paying for our tuition. Sighted students >>> don't receive VR funding for their tuition and many scholarships and >>> student loans that sighted people get require full-time status. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> Right. Everyone is different, and what seems like too much for one >>>> person is child's play for another. If sighted people are given the >>>> freedom to choose how many courses they can handle, why shouldn't > we? >>>> >>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Ignosi, >>>>> While 12 credits may not seem like much work for you, everyone is >>>>> different. >>>>> >>>>> I had reading for every class and I thought it was a lot of work. >>>>> I took that amount to be a full time student in most of my college >>>>> years. >>>>> It did not take everyone else much time; they skimmed readings; I >>>>> listened to mine so could not take short cuts. >>>>> I also felt the amount of material was a lot per class, especially >>>>> in upper >>>>> >>>>> level classes. >>>>> I wonder what school you went to. But I feel its misleading to say >>>>> 12 credits isn't a lot of work. >>>>> I took nine credits the last few semesters at community college; I >>>>> finished >>>>> >>>>> my BA but wanted a writing certificate to add to my resume. I'm >>>>> taking writing classes applicable to business like technical >>>>> editing and business writing. >>>>> >>>>> I had a fair amount of home work particularly at the end of the >>>>> semester including multiple papers. >>>>> If one can only do 12 credits, that is okay; better to do what you >>>>> can handle than let grades and mental health suffer. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ignasi Cambra >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:56 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to >>>>> dotogetaworkingcomputerfor >>>>> >>>>> college >>>>> >>>>> 12 credits is the minimum requirement to be a full time student. >>>>> That's less than what most people take per semester. Why do we need > >>>>> to exaggerate like this? 12 credits is really not much work! >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Rehab isn't the only one that pays for 12 credit hours. >>>>>> The Pell Grant won't cover you unless you have 12 credit hours. >>>>>> It's overwhelming for anyone, not just you. >>>>>> I hated my first year, because they wanted me to take all of these > >>>>>> developmental courses, (stuff I had in high school!) Then, they >>>>>> told me that I needed to get a General Education certificate. >>>>>> That would've taken me 2 years, which is okay, but I had to go >>>>>> back to get a real degree! >>>>>> I wasn't going to have that! >>>>>> I found out that I could get a behavioral health degree, in order >>>>>> to do what I wanted to do, (which was to counsel children and work > >>>>>> for VR. >>>>>> I'm getting that degree, next May! >>>>>> Had they told me of the Behavioral Health degree, when I started >>>>>> in 2009, I'd be out of school, and probably at LCB! >>>>>> Good grief! >>>>>> That's Rehab for you! >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Tyler, I can't be offended by your post. You don't know me, so >>>>>>> you don't really know why it was that no one ever respected me. >>>>>>> It's easier to assume that it was my own fault because you >>>>>>> weren't there, so I'll let that slide. Also, what I meant about >>>>>>> people being privileged was that some people don't go to college >>>>>>> because they want to be there, they go on a sports scholarship, >>>>>>> which in their minds gives them a license to be jerks. Some are >>>>>>> pressured into picking a specific major by their parents, and the > parents pay for them to go. >>>>>>> They end up miserable. Some get other scholarships and just party > >>>>>>> their lives away. It's all one big game to them. All I'm saying >>>>>>> is that the argument of college kids being more mature than high >>>>>>> school kids doesn't work with me. As a general rule, you're going > >>>>>>> to have immature people everywhere you go, that's life. But I >>>>>>> know that in college, people are being let out of their cages. >>>>>>> They're roaring and stomping their way through campus, tearing it > >>>>>>> up and having a grand old time because it's the first time >>>>>>> they've been away from home. No parents to tell them who they can > >>>>>>> and cannot be friends with. Nobody saying they can't order pizza >>>>>>> every night. No one to stop them from sleeping with someone. It >>>>>>> would make anybody crazy, I guess, if they didn't know how to get > >>>>>>> a grip on their desires, and let's face it, we live in a society > that's centered on instant gratification. >>>>>>> One thing I will say though was that in grade school, you really >>>>>>> don't know how to advocate for yourself. When the teachers and >>>>>>> kids were treating me horribly, what was a scared 7 or 8-year-old > >>>>>>> kid supposed to do about it? Yeah, I could have beaten those kids > >>>>>>> up and showed them blind people aren't helpless, but I was pretty > passive back then. >>>>>>> I'm not proud of that, but the past is the past. >>>>>>> As for my high school days, after I got out of middle school I >>>>>>> actually went to a school for the blind to complete my education. > >>>>>>> Oh, the stories I could tell! But I won't, because I don't think >>>>>>> Google indexing them would be a good idea. What I will say though > >>>>>>> is that I know I suffered academically. I wasn't receiving the >>>>>>> same education that I know my sighted peers were. So I feel very >>>>>>> unprepared for college. I never heard of academic probation in my > >>>>>>> life until reading this thread, but it sure sounds scary. Sounds >>>>>>> like the shady side of the law, or if not that, a sure way to >>>>>>> fail every job interview as well. Also, rehab only pays for >>>>>>> college if you take 12 credits worth of classes. I think that >>>>>>> would probably be overwhelming to me. I don't want to fail and > find out exactly what academic probation entails. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/24/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> Beth, >>>>>>>> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the > >>>>>>>> college you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They >>>>>>>> should be able to tell you if you can qualify for pell grants >>>>>>>> with your academic situation. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do >>>>>>>> togetaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due >>>>>>>> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to >>>>>>>> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort >>>>>>>> of thing? >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to >>>>>>>> getaworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants? >>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the >>>>>>>> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes >>>>>>>> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn >>>>>>>> things back. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: David Andrews >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get >>>>>>>> aworkingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go. >>>>>>>> But ... >>>>>>>> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then >>>>>>>> they pay for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval >>>>>>>> for financial reasons. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>>> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry >>>>>>>> if I sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much >>>>>>>> about what rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college >>>>>>>> can't you apply to schools just like anyone else? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>>> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few >>>>>>>> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do >>>>>>>> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi >>>>>>>> stupid work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I >>>>>>>> don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>>> workingcomputerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you >>>>>>>> should just go and tell them that you're going and you need >>>>>>>> this, this and this in order to be independent. You need to have > >>>>>>>> a technology assessment by a professional blind technology >>>>>>>> person and it's your right to get that assessment. If your >>>>>>>> counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the adaptive >>>>>>>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the >>>>>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from >>>>>>>> succeeding in college and if they want you to pass your classes, > >>>>>>>> you have got to have a computer. Because you aren't someone with > >>>>>>>> time to worry about a technology failure, you really need an >>>>>>>> apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support >>>>>>>> in the world. >>>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/ >>>>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience >>>>>>>> you want in college with your PC, so because you want the best, >>>>>>>> you need to have a Mac. >>>>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best >>>>>>>> for you. They will only guide you if you let them. you must be >>>>>>>> sure, un moving and firm that this is what you want and there is > >>>>>>>> nothing better you can have, even though there may be things >>>>>>>> you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key and independence >>>>>>>> is the way. >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Beth >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a >>>>>>>> working computerfor college >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything >>>>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac >>>>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they >>>>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party >>>>>>>> apps fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational >>>>>>>> assessment and work adjustment training." They found an agency >>>>>>>> for me to work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health > >>>>>>>> group and counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of >>>>>>>> this. I didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment >>>>>>>> to be the top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab > >>>>>>>> and their plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the >>>>>>>> work adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart >>>>>>>> before the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal > >>>>>>>> people go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do? >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462% >>>>>>>> 4 >>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesislo >>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower1 >>>>>>>> 7%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e >>>>> arthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com Mon Jul 30 17:50:00 2012 From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:50:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet Radio Work Please Read On Message-ID: <652DDABE80434D2D97E38CA9A3C53F94@AudioAccessFM> Hi Everyone! I am happy to report that after last week, my Windows XP machine that I use for broadcasting is back up and running, which is good, cause I want to entertain you with another musically awesome Djd Invasion show, but I need your help too! Tune in at 8 PM eastern to The Djd Invasion show happening on Audio Access FM, and I think finally JAndJFM too! This is going to be 120 minutes that will be rewarding, entertaining, informative, and an opportunity for you to help shape the future of my show and this radio project you've come to know as Audio Access FM. I'm at a cross roads now, in my radio work and personal life. And If I'm going to keep going on air, which I want to in a big way, then I want the work I do to matter, which is why you need to tune in and hear what I will be saying about what's coming for the station and more. In addition to this serious end of things, there will be our Judge Judy clip of the month, upbeat and awesome songs that will leave you with a good feeling, an eclectic mix of songs that will give something to everyone, and more... And if course, you can contribute to the show through our interactions, requests, etc. To participate in tonight's show, contact me in one of the following ways: By email at daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com Via msn or aol instant messengers at interact at audioaccessfm.com Via skype at audio.accessfm Or via telephone at 1-516-324-2314 Get ready for a ride that will make you laugh, have you singing to the tunes, and will give you hope and excitement about the not too distant future, so to hear it all put out on the table, save this email, and at any time between 8 PM and 10 PM eastern, go to http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php or to http://www.jandj.fm to be part of the fun! Hope to see you all there! >From David Dunphy, A K A Djd, Station Manager Of Audio Access FM, and host of The Djd Invasion Internet Radio Show http://www.audioaccessfm.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Jul 30 18:29:37 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:29:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet RadioWork Please Read On References: <652DDABE80434D2D97E38CA9A3C53F94@AudioAccessFM> Message-ID: <001b01cd6e81$46e67f80$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> David does indeed do good shows, and he's an awesome station mannager. I've worked with him, and he'll assist him in any way he can. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dunphy" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:50 PM Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet RadioWork Please Read On > Hi Everyone! > I am happy to report that after last week, my Windows XP machine that I > use for broadcasting is back up and running, which is good, cause I want > to entertain you with another musically awesome Djd Invasion show, but I > need your help too! > > Tune in at 8 PM eastern to The Djd Invasion show happening on Audio Access > FM, and I think finally JAndJFM too! > > This is going to be 120 minutes that will be rewarding, entertaining, > informative, and an opportunity for you to help shape the future of my > show and this radio project you've come to know as Audio Access FM. I'm at > a cross roads now, in my radio work and personal life. And If I'm going to > keep going on air, which I want to in a big way, then I want the work I do > to matter, which is why you need to tune in and hear what I will be saying > about what's coming for the station and more. > In addition to this serious end of things, there will be our Judge Judy > clip of the month, upbeat and awesome songs that will leave you with a > good feeling, an eclectic mix of songs that will give something to > everyone, and more... > > And if course, you can contribute to the show through our interactions, > requests, etc. > > To participate in tonight's show, contact me in one of the following ways: > > By email at > daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com > > Via msn or aol instant messengers at > interact at audioaccessfm.com > > Via skype at > audio.accessfm > > Or via telephone at > 1-516-324-2314 > > Get ready for a ride that will make you laugh, have you singing to the > tunes, and will give you hope and excitement about the not too distant > future, so to hear it all put out on the table, save this email, and at > any time between 8 PM and 10 PM eastern, go to > http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php > > or to > http://www.jandj.fm > > to be part of the fun! > > Hope to see you all there! > > From David Dunphy, A K A Djd, Station Manager Of Audio Access FM, and host > of The Djd Invasion Internet Radio Show > http://www.audioaccessfm.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon Jul 30 19:52:20 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:52:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success In-Reply-To: References: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817BCF@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><295C8372E09A4C47893801BB36CBD0BE@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817C08@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> I really don't think you have to consult a professor about getting outside tutoring at all. People get outside tutoring all of the time. Your professor does not have any thing to do with that. Just don't cheat, plain and simple. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 2:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success This is a great idea and I would definitely be on board for this. I actually work at my school's tutoring center and tutor all different kinds of science classes so would be happy to help in that realm. I also used to do freelance copy/content editing for about six years, so would be happy to help in that realm too. At the Learning Center where I work, the policy is that we can't help with anything that is being turned in for a grade, especially if it's a take-home exam of some sort. If it's a homework assignment, we can help as long as the student has put in some effort trying to solve it first. In general though, we try to work on things that aren't direct assignments, like understanding concepts, going through suggested problems at the back of the book, etc, to help students really master the concepts as opposed to just understand something momentarily to get the better grade. Chrys On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs < brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > We should do this! > If the tutors do like a [please take a look at this] [pore?] {good? > Something better] > and stuff like that in the brackets I believe that would keep > plagiarism down. > As for Astronomy and other science topics, they should do like a Skype > study session. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:29 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success > > Hi Mary and all, > I think that if NABS were to set up a tutoring program, there would > need to be some clear guidelines in place to prevent plagiarism. For > example, at the athletic center where I tutor, we are not allowed to > write comments directly on a student's paper, but instead must provide > feedback in verbal form during the meeting. This may or may not be > practical for long-distance tutoring, but we could make a rule that, > for example, tutors cannot directly revise students' papers, but must > only use the comments feature in Track Changes to offer suggestions. > Similar rules should also govern math tutoring (not solving a problem > for a student but guiding them through calculations). > That said, I think volunteer tutors will be less tempted to overhelp > their students or do things bordering on cheating than will paid > tutors, who may be concerned enough about their jobs to want to ensure > their students are successful. Also, I don't think professors care > much about who is tutoring their students, or are even aware that > their student is getting tutoring sometimes. Obviously if a student's > performance suddenly becomes excellent, a professor may get > suspicious, but if the student and tutor are truly working together in > a non-cheating way, the student should be able to justify the use of > the tutor regardless of where the tutor comes from. Students often get > support from tutors who are not affiliated with their college or > university. > I agree that it is generally wise to start by looking for tutoring > "in-house" but I also think that blind tutors can offer a lot more > than sighted tutors can, for certain subjects, because they can > provide guidance in the alternative techniques used to handle the > course material in addition to the course material itself. > Best, > Arielle > > On 7/27/12, Mary Fernandez wrote: > >> Hi All, >> I think tutoring is an essential part of learning, and if it >> available in your school, you should take full advantage of it. Even >> if you get straight A's you can only improve your writing or math >> skills if you sit with someone else who can look over your work and >> give you constructive feedback. >> As for having some kind of volunteer tutoring system... >> I do think this is a fabulous idea. However, having attended a >> university which was so concerned about plagiarism, and what they >> consider to be plagiarism, I think that it would be wise to clear >> this idea up with individual professors. Especially if your >> university offers in house tutoring, I think many professors would be >> hesitant to ok an outside source, unless there is some clear >> advantage, or this source has specialized knowledge. For instance, >> Arielle is great at SPSS, and though you might get tutoring on SPSS >> in school, most of these tutors have never even heard of screen >> access software. In this instance, it makes total sense for Arielle to be your to-go person. >> But for English and foreign language classes, if there is in house >> tutoring, make sure to clear up the outside consulting idea. >> Thanks. >> Mary >> >> On 7/25/12, Wasif, Zunaira wrote: >> >>> I think that's a wonderful idea! So many of my clients need tutoring >>> and don't get it because state rehab doesn't want to pay for it. >>> Maybe we can set up a volunteer tutoring system where people can get >>> community service hours or something. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Koby >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tutoring, and College Success >>> >>> Arielle, >>> Would It be possible for you to tooter me In my English class at >>> college? >>> >>> Right back soon, >>> Koby. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>>> First, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the other side of the >>>> tutoring desk. I have been a part-time tutor for the athletic >>>> department at my school for the past year and a half. I originally >>>> signed up for the job to make a little extra cash, but now that my >>>> expenses have gone down substantially (living with my boyfriend >>>> helps, >>>> >>> >>> :)! the primary reason I keep tutoring is for the joy of being able >>> to >>>> >>> >>> help students succeed. Most of my students are freshman athletes >>> who >>>> are required by the university to have subject tutors, so there is >>>> no stigma associated with having tutors for them. If you go to a >>>> tutoring >>>> >>> >>> center, everyone there will be working with tutors and so you won't >>>> stand out. I know athletes are stereotypically supposed to not be >>>> that >>>> >>> >>> smart. Based on my experience with a dozen or so students, they >>> vary >>>> in their grasp of the subject matter, but most are motivated and >>>> serious about their studying. It is really nice to work with >>>> students who are motivated and the best thing is to have a student >>>> who is struggling or has weak study skills at the beginning of the >>>> semester and to watch them get better over time. I don't think >>>> anyone should worry about being judged or laughed at by a >>>> professional tutor at your >>>> >>> >>> school, and if they are rude or impatient with you, they probably >>>> shouldn't be in that job and you have a right to complain. >>>> I think it would be great if NABS set up a volunteer tutoring >>>> service where advanced blind students could offer free tutoring to >>>> other blind >>>> >>> >>> students in their subject area, i.e. an English major could tutor >>>> someone in freshman English. My offer still stands to tutor any of >>>> you >>>> >>> >>> in psychology or statistics for free over the phone or to look over >>>> papers or provide general research advice. >>>> And, to Beth and Desiree: I don't know much about your career >>>> goals, but it might be good to sit down and think about what your >>>> abstract goals are for what you want to do with your life, and then >>>> figure out if a college degree would help make those goals happen. >>>> These goals could be something as general as "earn enough to get >>>> off SSI" or as specific as "make a lasting positive impression on >>>> the education of blind children in this country". If it would, then >>>> please don't let fears about "what-ifs" stop you from getting one. >>>> Keep the long-range goals in mind throughout the process, and if >>>> you fail or come upon some obstacles, think about what you can do >>>> differently to clear them out of your way. >>>> Desiree, what happened to you during your elementary education >>>> sounds awful and unacceptable. A blind child's right to use a >>>> Brailler in class should never be determined by other kids' >>>> preferences. However, I truly believe that you can recover from >>>> these early setbacks with hard work and determination, if the >>>> prize--your ultimate life goal--is >>>> >>> >>> something you want badly enough. I hope you will continue to >>> dialogue >>>> with us blind students as I have found that the support of other >>>> blind >>>> >>> >>> folk is one of the best defenses against the negative attitudes of >>> the >>>> >>> >>> sighted public. I am happy to talk off-list about any specific issues. >>>> Beth: If your long-term goal involve college, and it sounds like it >>>> does, then think hard about what went wrong before, and how these >>>> things can be changed. You mentioned difficulties with research; we >>>> can give you resources and suggestions to help you deal with these >>>> issues. If it's bipolar stuff, can you find a different doctor, or >>>> try >>>> >>> >>> a different combination of meds, to mitigate the problems you were >>>> having before? >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>>> t.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> kobycox%40gmail.co>>> org/kobycox%40gmail.co> >>>> m >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> .org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> zunaira.wasif%40dbs>> org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs> >>> . >>> fldoe.org >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>> .org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> trillian551%40gmail.com>> net.org/trillian551%40gmail.com> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory 2012 >> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who >> takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." >> -- >> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> arielle71%40gmail.com> .org/arielle71%40gmail.com> >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com> > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org rg/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**cbuckley%40pdx > .edu x.edu> > -- http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jul 30 21:39:36 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:39:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet RadioWork Please Read On In-Reply-To: <001b01cd6e81$46e67f80$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <652DDABE80434D2D97E38CA9A3C53F94@AudioAccessFM> <001b01cd6e81$46e67f80$0402a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <49AB4192-28B9-4900-B08A-F5B256DB72FC@gmail.com> I agree with you completely! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Jul 30, 2012, at 1:29 PM, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > David does indeed do good shows, and he's an awesome station mannager. I've worked with him, and he'll assist him in any way he can. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dunphy" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:50 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet RadioWork Please Read On > > >> Hi Everyone! >> I am happy to report that after last week, my Windows XP machine that I use for broadcasting is back up and running, which is good, cause I want to entertain you with another musically awesome Djd Invasion show, but I need your help too! >> >> Tune in at 8 PM eastern to The Djd Invasion show happening on Audio Access FM, and I think finally JAndJFM too! >> >> This is going to be 120 minutes that will be rewarding, entertaining, informative, and an opportunity for you to help shape the future of my show and this radio project you've come to know as Audio Access FM. I'm at a cross roads now, in my radio work and personal life. And If I'm going to keep going on air, which I want to in a big way, then I want the work I do to matter, which is why you need to tune in and hear what I will be saying about what's coming for the station and more. >> In addition to this serious end of things, there will be our Judge Judy clip of the month, upbeat and awesome songs that will leave you with a good feeling, an eclectic mix of songs that will give something to everyone, and more... >> >> And if course, you can contribute to the show through our interactions, requests, etc. >> >> To participate in tonight's show, contact me in one of the following ways: >> >> By email at >> daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com >> >> Via msn or aol instant messengers at >> interact at audioaccessfm.com >> >> Via skype at >> audio.accessfm >> >> Or via telephone at >> 1-516-324-2314 >> >> Get ready for a ride that will make you laugh, have you singing to the tunes, and will give you hope and excitement about the not too distant future, so to hear it all put out on the table, save this email, and at any time between 8 PM and 10 PM eastern, go to >> http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php >> >> or to >> http://www.jandj.fm >> >> to be part of the fun! >> >> Hope to see you all there! >> >> From David Dunphy, A K A Djd, Station Manager Of Audio Access FM, and host of The Djd Invasion Internet Radio Show >> http://www.audioaccessfm.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From amieelsabo at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 21:36:59 2012 From: amieelsabo at gmail.com (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:36:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet Radio Work Please Read On In-Reply-To: <652DDABE80434D2D97E38CA9A3C53F94@AudioAccessFM> References: <652DDABE80434D2D97E38CA9A3C53F94@AudioAccessFM> Message-ID: <014d01cd6f64$9e47a2c0$dad6e840$@gmail.com> Hello all, Yes, david does a excellent job on his radio work. And, I believe in it and in him too! I didn't get a chance to hear the show last night but, I have confidence in his abilities. Thanks again and, I wish him all of the luck in his endeavors. Hugs, >From amy -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Dunphy Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] If You Want To Help Shape The Future Of My Internet Radio Work Please Read On Hi Everyone! I am happy to report that after last week, my Windows XP machine that I use for broadcasting is back up and running, which is good, cause I want to entertain you with another musically awesome Djd Invasion show, but I need your help too! Tune in at 8 PM eastern to The Djd Invasion show happening on Audio Access FM, and I think finally JAndJFM too! This is going to be 120 minutes that will be rewarding, entertaining, informative, and an opportunity for you to help shape the future of my show and this radio project you've come to know as Audio Access FM. I'm at a cross roads now, in my radio work and personal life. And If I'm going to keep going on air, which I want to in a big way, then I want the work I do to matter, which is why you need to tune in and hear what I will be saying about what's coming for the station and more. In addition to this serious end of things, there will be our Judge Judy clip of the month, upbeat and awesome songs that will leave you with a good feeling, an eclectic mix of songs that will give something to everyone, and more... And if course, you can contribute to the show through our interactions, requests, etc. To participate in tonight's show, contact me in one of the following ways: By email at daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com Via msn or aol instant messengers at interact at audioaccessfm.com Via skype at audio.accessfm Or via telephone at 1-516-324-2314 Get ready for a ride that will make you laugh, have you singing to the tunes, and will give you hope and excitement about the not too distant future, so to hear it all put out on the table, save this email, and at any time between 8 PM and 10 PM eastern, go to http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php or to http://www.jandj.fm to be part of the fun! Hope to see you all there! >From David Dunphy, A K A Djd, Station Manager Of Audio Access FM, and host of The Djd Invasion Internet Radio Show http://www.audioaccessfm.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com