[nabs-l] iPad and Apex
Robert Miller
rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us
Tue Jul 24 16:01:56 UTC 2012
Hi everyone,
I use the iPad with the Apex as a display with my blind students and haven't
had any issues with the display accessing book in iBooks. If I had iPod
Touch units I would probably use them as well with my blind students. In my
experience, the displays will access what ever VoiceOver will access. I
have put together a booklet that I call, iPad Accessibility. It will walk
you through different tasks and as you complete the tasks you will learn how
to use the many access gestures and commands available. It's focus is the
iPad but almost all, if not all of these tasks can also be completed on the
iPhone and iPod Touch. I have two PDF formats, one with graphics and one
without graphics. The one without graphics works really well with a screen
reader such as JAWS. It has 6 parts, part 1 is mainstream access, part 2
is the iPad with VoiceOver, part 3 is the iPad with Zoom, parts 4, 5 and 6
deal with the iPad and 3 different braille displays. The displays are
Refershabraille 18, Focus 40 Blue, and the Apex as a display. If anyone is
interested in receiving a copy of this booklet email me at
rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us and I will send it to you at no cost.
I hope life is good for everyone!
Robert
Where there's a will, there's a way!
--------------------------------------------------
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:32 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 69, Issue 48
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ipad and apex question (Ignasi Cambra)
> 2. Re: why I want a mac (Ignasi Cambra)
> 3. Re: why I want a mac (Beth)
> 4. Re: why I want a mac (josh gregory)
> 5. Re: why I want a mac (josh gregory)
> 6. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college (Carly Mihalakis)
> 7. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college (josh gregory)
> 8. Re: NFB Philosophy (Ashley Bramlett)
> 9. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college (Ashley Bramlett)
> 10. Re: NFB AZ (Ashley Bramlett)
> 11. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college (Ashley Bramlett)
> 12. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett)
> 13. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett)
> 14. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college (Gloria G)
> 15. Re: NFB AZ (Deb Mendelsohn)
> 16. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college (Rania Ismail CMT)
> 17. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college (Rania Ismail CMT)
> 18. Re: why I want a mac (Beth)
> 19. Re: why I want a mac (RJ Sandefur)
> 20. Re: why I want a mac (Beth)
> 21. Re: why I want a mac (Littlefield, Tyler)
> 22. Re: Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers (Anmol Bhatia)
> 23. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett)
> 24. Re: why I want a mac (Ashley Bramlett)
> 25. Re: NFB Philosophy (Ashley Bramlett)
> 26. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college (Ashley Bramlett)
> 27. Re: meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college (Ashley Bramlett)
> 28. Re: Philosophical Homogeneity (Ashley Bramlett)
> 29. Re: meeting results and what to do to get aworkingcomputerfor
> college (Rania Ismail CMT)
> 30. Re: meeting results and what to do togetaworkingcomputerfor
> college (Ashley Bramlett)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:18:46 -0700
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ipad and apex question
> Message-ID: <1339387574727460513 at unknownmsgid>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I have never used an iOS device with a braille display, but if you
> are planning on using it from the Apex's keyboard I don't see the
> point of having iPad. I would say an iPod touch or iPhone will do the
> same for you and both of those devices take a lot less space than the
> iPad. If you are going to keep using the iPad try to leave your
> Braille Note alone for a couple of weeks and get used to the touch
> screen. Then go back to the BN and use it for typing if that's faster
> for you. You can double tap an edit field to edit its content.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 23, 2012, at 1:45 PM, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I am beginning to learn how to use the ipad. I am using my braillenote
>> apex to act as a display, and therefore use the braille note keyboard to
>> control the ipad. I had 2 questions.
>> My first question is, when I open up IBooks, Voice-Over reads the book,
>> but it doesn't appear on the Braille display. How do I get the text of
>> the book on the display?
>> Second, how do you go into a text field?
>> Thanks,
>> Vejas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <7875962367206091665 at unknownmsgid>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Beth,
> I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to want a
> Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better user
> experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it. Now...
> If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine could
> I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I didn't
> really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable but is
> also not rehab's problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility
>> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good
>> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak
>> good English, and given the demographics of india and its people,
>> blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said,
>> "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for
>> me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I
>> want to be able to use one so bad.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:09:13 -0600
> From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <500e7461.06aa320a.790e.52d2 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is
> broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go
> in the trash. That's all.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Beth,
> I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to
> want a
> Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better
> user
> experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it.
> Now...
> If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine
> could
> I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I
> didn't
> really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable
> but is
> also not rehab's problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
> be able to use one so bad.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:15:06 -0400
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID:
> <CAMJOM=3guBhukHVgGsPXjyGzZTjdUxvbssRCoK0Ac3738FD4wQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Can't blame you at all, Beth! I got one, for the same reasons as you.
> I generally love it! It has it's flaws, but nothing future updates
> can't fix. And there aren't a lot of them at that.
>
> On 7/24/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi, all.
>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
>> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
>> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
>> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
>> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
>> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
>> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
>> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
>> be able to use one so bad.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ways to Connect with me:
>
> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo
>
> twitter.com/joshg93
> Skype: joshgregory93
> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:16:31 -0400
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID:
> <CAMJOM=24OMbRQxCDdxdFKEEKzdJyTbZCs6bF6dmgzBdPqr=6NA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Ignasi, quite true. It's the same for me, as you. Just replace rehab
> with parents.
>
> On 7/24/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can't blame you at all, Beth! I got one, for the same reasons as you.
>> I generally love it! It has it's flaws, but nothing future updates
>> can't fix. And there aren't a lot of them at that.
>>
>> On 7/24/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi, all.
>>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
>>> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
>>> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
>>> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
>>> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
>>> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
>>> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
>>> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
>>> be able to use one so bad.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ways to Connect with me:
>>
>> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo
>>
>> twitter.com/joshg93
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ways to Connect with me:
>
> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo
>
> twitter.com/joshg93
> Skype: joshgregory93
> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:14:35 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120724041122.01c4f880 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Good morning, Desiree,
>
> I know at my school and probably at others as well, they offer free
> tutoring in all the school's subjects which can make all the
> difference if you are floundering. So you need not pay for tutoring.
> Ask the administration about the tutoring center.strong point. I know
> for example that my
>>math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
>>teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
>>long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
>>tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
>>Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
>>stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
>>uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
>>those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
>>to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
>>was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
>>nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
>>would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
>>something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
>>cheating.
>>I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
>>to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
>>calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
>>just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
>>fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
>>The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
>>people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
>>term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
>>math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
>>might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
>>the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
>>noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
>>maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
>>I'm really not sure.
>>I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
>>makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
>>need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
>>surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
>>astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
>>running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
>>We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
>>blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
>>ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
>>and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
>>people this stupid?
>>
>>On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > Tyler,
>> > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth
>> > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>> > state,
>> >
>> > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference,
>> > but
>> > I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>> > So I think it will be hard to get one.
>> > Ashley
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Littlefield, Tyler
>> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>> > computerfor college
>> >
>> > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>> > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>> > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise,
>> > just
>> > get a pc.
>> > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>> >> Hello,
>> >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>> >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
>> >> this
>> >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment
>> >> by a
>> >>
>> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>> >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>> >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>> >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from
>> >> succeeding
>> >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>> >> have
>> >>
>> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>> >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>> >> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>> >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>> >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you
>> >> want
>> >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to
>> >> have a
>> >>
>> >> Mac.
>> >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>> >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>> >> have,
>> >>
>> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >> key and independence is the way.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>> >> computerfor college
>> >>
>> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>> >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>> >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>> >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>> >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>> >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>> >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>> >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>> >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>> >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>> >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>> >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>> >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>> >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Beth
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Take care,
>> > Ty
>> > http://tds-solutions.net
>> > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>> > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a
>> fool; he that
>> >
>> > dares not reason is a slave.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:21:04 -0400
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
> Message-ID:
> <CAMJOM=0BhCqX38a_gh2Yv_muKtR6dsg8gdozSgfKhRu5LDPceg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> What else did you mean to say, Carly? The full message isn't here.
> Well, either that or Gmail's cutting it short.
>
> On 7/24/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Good morning, Desiree,
>>
>> I know at my school and probably at others as well, they offer free
>> tutoring in all the school's subjects which can make all the
>> difference if you are floundering. So you need not pay for tutoring.
>> Ask the administration about the tutoring center.strong point. I know
>> for example that my
>>>math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
>>>teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
>>>long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
>>>tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
>>>Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
>>>stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
>>>uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
>>>those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
>>>to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
>>>was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
>>>nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
>>>would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
>>>something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
>>>cheating.
>>>I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
>>>to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
>>>calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
>>>just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
>>>fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
>>>The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
>>>people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
>>>term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
>>>math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
>>>might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
>>>the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
>>>noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
>>>maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
>>>I'm really not sure.
>>>I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
>>>makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
>>>need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
>>>surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
>>>astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
>>>running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
>>>We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
>>>blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
>>>ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
>>>and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
>>>people this stupid?
>>>
>>>On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> > Tyler,
>>> > good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and
>>> > Beth
>>> > hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>>> > state,
>>> >
>>> > they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference,
>>> > but
>>> > I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>>> > So I think it will be hard to get one.
>>> > Ashley
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Littlefield, Tyler
>>> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> > computerfor college
>>> >
>>> > Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>>> > propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>>> > because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise,
>>> > just
>>> > get a pc.
>>> > On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>> >> Hello,
>>> >> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you
>>> >> should
>>> >> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
>>> >> this
>>> >> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment
>>> >> by
>>> >> a
>>> >>
>>> >> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>>> >> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>>> >> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>>> >> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from
>>> >> succeeding
>>> >> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>>> >> have
>>> >>
>>> >> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>>> >> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>>> >> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>>> >> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>>> >> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you
>>> >> want
>>> >> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to
>>> >> have
>>> >> a
>>> >>
>>> >> Mac.
>>> >> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for
>>> >> you.
>>> >> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>>> >> and
>>> >>
>>> >> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>>> >> have,
>>> >>
>>> >> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>>> >> the
>>> >>
>>> >> key and independence is the way.
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >>
>>> >> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> >> computerfor college
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>>> >> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>>> >> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>>> >> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>>> >> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>>> >> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>>> >> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>>> >> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>>> >> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>>> >> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>>> >> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>>> >> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>>> >> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>>> >> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Beth
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Take care,
>>> > Ty
>>> > http://tds-solutions.net
>>> > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a
>>> fool; he that
>>> >
>>> > dares not reason is a slave.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
> --
> Ways to Connect with me:
>
> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo
>
> twitter.com/joshg93
> Skype: joshgregory93
> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:33:06 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
> Message-ID: <91205FFAD67F4E178BAC4C081DF06E65 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ks_c_5601-1987";
> reply-type=original
>
> Vejas,
> ACB is the other organization, american council of the blind.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vejas
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:12 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
>
> What is the ABC?
> Vejas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:08:53 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
>
> Josh,
> First, his last name is spelled wrong. Second,
> Second, I think based on comments from other lists that he is
> staying with
> ACB. As to who is joining whom, unless you have stats to back it
> up, I
> suspect that organization membership is declining. This because
> not enough
> young people are involved in NFB and old members are dying out.
> I saw on
> nfb-talk that two or maybe three members just passed away. A few
> members in
> my state have passed too such as Sevelle Allen. Leaders seem to
> retire and
> pass away or move away. So really, I'm not so sure nfb
> membership is
> increasing so much as to shout about it like we're better than
> ACB. I just
> don't think young generations join advocacy groups as much, even
> if they're
> blind.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
>
> Well: the good thing is, that people are leaving the ACB, and
> joining
> us, because they realize that we're right.
> Think about Mike Coppell, (one of their prized members,) who has
> just
> left them, and joined us!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 7/20/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Hello,
> Possibly because the NFB is such a huge pusher to the fair wages
> and
> frankly, they probably saw the unfair wages as hardly something
> that will
> make a difference. Also, I believe another voat for less than
> minimum wage
> is that one can stay on SSI while getting lower than fair wages.
> Every side thinks they are right, so does that make them both
> wrong?
> As pointed out at the banquet speech at the NFB convention this
> last year,
> we can only try our hardest to be the victors, and because we
> know we are
> right, we will win.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
>
> Arielle: that was a great post.
> I just have one question about this.
> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote,
> "Do Not
> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act,"
> resolution at their convention?
> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below
> the
> federally mandated minimum wage.
> Hmmm!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was
> excellent. I would also add two things:
> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In
> fact, I
> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other
> successful
> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also
> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean
> described. The
> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that
> does
> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or
> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that
> the
> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on
> what
> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it
> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the
> organization should be structured, not about fundamental
> philosophy of
> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken
> differing
> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily
> mean
> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't
> think
> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization
> of
> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have
> choices
> about which organization to join and that there's not one big
> group
> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that
> the NFB
> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing
> what
> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance.
>
> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine
> years I
> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB
> increasingly
> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both
> individual
> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them
> down. I
> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become
> available online, and you will find that most of these
> resolutions
> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for
> their
> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction
> of
> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front
> even
> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However,
> though we
> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access
> for
> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will
> take time
> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we
> are also
> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to
> those
> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will
> fight
> for full access to educational technology, but instead of
> waiting to
> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work
> to
> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so
> that we
> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other
> words,
> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design
> against
> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual
> approach
> toward both of these goals?
> Arielle
>
> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread.
>
> Tyler:
> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't
> fully
> agree
> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that
> hesitation
> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going
> to a
> campus
> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free
> dinner, and
> I
> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In
> some
> churches,
> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that
> everyone in
> the
> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who
> disagrees
> slightly
> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we
> understand
> that
> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's
> okay to
> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have
> generally
> the
> same core beliefs.
> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with
> something
> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with
> it
> because
> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when
> someone
> disagrees
> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of
> understanding of
> what
> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I
> won't
> shun
> you.
>
> Marc Workman:
> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the
> barriers. Why
> do
> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an
> absolutely
> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor
> adaptability
> because
> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work
> on
> those
> barriers.
> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a
> colored
> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and
> I don't
> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of
> it.
> Quite
> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being
> a
> colored
> person. With the first generation college student part, I have
> to seek
> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I
> know many,
> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that
> role for
> me.
> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with
> you
> before"
> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've
> realized in
> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who
> hears me
> and
> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal
> attack. I'm
> not
> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did
> read it
> that
> way.
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email:
> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of
> their
> dreams
> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for
> people to
> reach
> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope.
> With hope
> life
> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The
> NFB to
> me
> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me
> if I
> need
> it.
>
> Yours in Federationism,
>
> Justin Salisbury
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> ?ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can
> change
> the world; indeed, it? the only thing that ever has.?
> ?ARGARET MEAD
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> iggs%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:46:33 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
> Message-ID: <BF5844775CB946F8A3CAB0CEBA1B42A1 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Desiree,
> I am not strong in math and science. We all need some assistance in some
> areas; for my brother it was writing and english. For me, it was math and
> science. I'm not sure where these ideas come from. Like Tyler, I feel that
> tutoring can be helpful unless you struggle in major classes; then change
> majors. Otherwise
> get a tutor to get through a difficult class or two. Undergrad requires so
> many gen ed classes
> that all people struggle in something. In my school at least, tutors were
> employed by the school and had to have references for it. Not only that,
> they had to have taken the class in which they tutored and gotten an A or
> B.
> They are some of the best in their subjects; most really enjoy tutoring;
> if
> they did not, they would probably get an easier job like information desk
> assistant.
> As to them thinking badly since you're blind, I highly doubt that. As
> others
> said, students are more mature in college and I think they would tutor you
> like any other student.
>
> If you pay a private tutor, I see what you mean. You pay just as much for
> the tutor as you do for the class, if not more! But, if one can afford it,
> I
> see nothing wrong with that.
> Surely, no one would think you're dumb for getting help in a few classes.
> I
> mean all students do it. It shows some maturity to speak up and
> get help in your weak areas.
>
> Ashley
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Desiree Oudinot
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
>
> Hi all,
> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my
> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
> cheating.
> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
> I'm really not sure.
> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
> people this stupid?
>
> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Tyler,
>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth
>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>> state,
>>
>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but
>> I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>> So I think it will be hard to get one.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Littlefield, Tyler
>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>> computerfor college
>>
>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just
>> get a pc.
>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this
>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by
>>> a
>>>
>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding
>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>>> have
>>>
>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>>> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want
>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have
>>> a
>>>
>>> Mac.
>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>>> and
>>>
>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>>> have,
>>>
>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>>> the
>>>
>>> key and independence is the way.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> computerfor college
>>>
>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Take care,
>> Ty
>> http://tds-solutions.net
>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>> that
>>
>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:53:57 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB AZ
> Message-ID: <C7780E2DBF7945D5B34DFB2FDB974CCF at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Deb,
> if you don't get an answer here, check with your state president. they
> coordinate rooms for people.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deb Mendelsohn
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ
>
> Hi all,
> Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September?
> I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a
> grant to attend Dallas.
> TIA
> Deb
>
> *
> *
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:03:49 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
> Message-ID: <053B4F16BFEA450FBD60C4460BE572CF at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Tyler,
> Good post. I'll add that college i s what you make it. You can study and
> get
> good grades or just skate through barly passing.
> Its quite hard. But if it were easy, we'd have more college grads. College
> is higher education separating the educated from the not so educated.
>
> Yep, respect is what you make it. I could write so much on that. I've
> known
> many blind people who were bullyed or had issues in public school; yet, in
> college, they really shined and got involved in studies and clubs that
> they
> wanted to.
> So, I guess my point is just since you had a bad experience in high school
> or public schools, it doesn't mean that translates to college.
>
> I encourage anyone who needs it to avail yourselves of college resources
> like tutoring, academic advising, the library, and professors. Professors
> have been great to me in general; sure a few here and there suck about
> accomodations, but overall they were helpful. They often went out of their
> way to help. My intro to computers professor brought in parts of a
> computer
> for me to feel.
> How awesome to see the hard drive and actual memory chips on the
> motherboard; I did not see the pictures, so
> this was helpful. Other professors have sat with me and given me feedback
> on
> my papers before grading them and this was nice because I cannot read
> their
> comments and it made their expectations clearer. Other professors just
> helped me more and described charts or diagrams they had.
> Professors will also write reference letters for you.
>
> I think you can gain respect in college you did not have before. You can
> find your niche sort of by choosing your major and what to engage in
> outside
> school. Self esteem improves too if you get involved in stuff and try new
> things.
>
> That said, college isn't for everyone, and if Desiree feels its not for
> her,
> that is okay.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Littlefield, Tyler
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:08 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
>
> I'm sorry I'm not helping the pity party here, but for most people,
> respect is what you earn. If you don't earn their respect, then you
> don't get it, and it's pretty simple. Just because someone is in college
> doesn't mean they're priviledged. I know people that are going on a
> full-ride scholarship. Sure it sucks that I have to pay, but I can
> guarantee you they worked their ass off in school to get it. Why am I
> not going on a full ride? It's simple, I didn't happen to do that. Sure
> there are people that that doesn't apply to, but not everyone gets the
> golden platter handed to them; personally, as hard as things may be, I'm
> glad I didn't. I can tell you that when I graduated high school and
> later when I graduate college, I'm going to appreciate it a lot more
> than someone with the golden platter.
>
> We've also all had our own fair share of issues in school as a blind
> student, it doesn't reflect badly on the human race as a whole, it's
> just life again. It wasn't such a huge problem for me until high school,
> but when high school rolled around and I started caring enough to want
> to get good grades, I'll tell you it wasn't easy. I made numerous trips
> across the school every day to make sure everything was getting
> brailled; it really depended greatly on the teacher, and I got a few
> that I had to yell at and then getting everything I needed was a miracle
> by itself.
>
> Going to college is a privilege, not a right. Yes, it's harder if you're
> blind, yes, it's harder if you don't have scholarships, c'est la vie.
> I've always had the mindset that your life is what you make it. As I
> said, no-one is great at everything, and everyone struggles with some
> classes, it's the way it is. If life were easy, everyone would have gone
> to college and we wouldn't have this debate. Ultimately though, the
> choice is yours; you can accept life as it is and do the best with it,
> or you can complain about it.
> On 7/23/2012 7:54 PM, Desiree Oudinot wrote:
>> Oh, that was just grade school. But none of my experiences throughout
>> the time I was in school were all that great, which makes me not only
>> doubt the human race as a whole, but also has lead me to believe that
>> while you're in school, you have no rights. This goes for college too
>> since it's an institution of learning. Sure, people are paying to go
>> there, but let's get real. Some are riding on a scholarship, so
>> they're not paying out of pocket, or some have their parents pay for
>> them. In the case of blind people, rehab pays for most, if not all of
>> your college education if you play by their rules. I really wasn't
>> trying to start a debate about my situation though. I consider myself
>> to be a realist. I know what I am and am not good at. No amount of
>> convincing myself that I'm good at math will make it so. No amount of
>> convincing yourself that you can see will make it so, either. There's
>> a fine line between being hopeful and sticking your head in the
>> clouds.
>> The only reason I revealed any of this at all is because some of us
>> didn't grow up privileged. Some of us had to fight for every hint of
>> respect we ever got. Some of us haven't been respected in so long that
>> we don't even know what it feels like anymore. I get the feeling that
>> that's kind of what Beth was saying too. I'll take the tirade of
>> criticism that's sure to rain down on me for saying that, but at least
>> I'm being honest.
>>
>> On 7/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> If you knew you were better than the people in your math class, then you
>>> probably will be. It's also a mind set. You are the smartest person the
>>> school has ever had, and you will do just about anything to show that
>>> you're
>>>
>>> the smartest.
>>> BTW, cheating is more trouble than it's worth. So if you think you're
>>> cheating to make something easier, you probably aren't cheeting. High
>>> school
>>>
>>> doesn't count for much in the real world, so I'm sorry for the horrid
>>> things
>>>
>>> they did to you, but college math courses are often lots more fun.
>>> My college has a class called, math for non mathematical people, and
>>> it's
>>> how to do math without thinking about math.
>>> BTW, you can't really do stats without using a calculator.
>>> If you want to do something, nurture that want and make it a need, then
>>> fulfill that need. Once the step has been taken and you're in your first
>>> day
>>>
>>> of class, it's not long till you've gotten an A at the end of the
>>> quarter.
>>> So believe you're the best and then be the best.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:54 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> computerfor college
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my
>>> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
>>> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
>>> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
>>> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
>>> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
>>> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
>>> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
>>> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
>>> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
>>> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
>>> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
>>> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
>>> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
>>> cheating.
>>> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
>>> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
>>> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
>>> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
>>> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
>>> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
>>> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
>>> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
>>> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
>>> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
>>> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
>>> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
>>> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
>>> I'm really not sure.
>>> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
>>> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
>>> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
>>> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
>>> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
>>> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
>>> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
>>> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
>>> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
>>> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
>>> people this stupid?
>>>
>>> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Tyler,
>>>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth
>>>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>>>> state,
>>>>
>>>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference,
>>>> but
>>>> I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>>>> So I think it will be hard to get one.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Littlefield, Tyler
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>>> computerfor college
>>>>
>>>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>>>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>>>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise,
>>>> just
>>>> get a pc.
>>>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>>>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
>>>>> this
>>>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment
>>>>> by
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>>>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from
>>>>> succeeding
>>>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>>>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>>>>> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you
>>>>> want
>>>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to
>>>>> have
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>> Mac.
>>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>>>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>>>>> have,
>>>>>
>>>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> key and independence is the way.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>>>> computerfor college
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Ty
>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
> that
> dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <A0416C9FD1EC469197BD43A362F66662 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Beth,
> then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined?
> If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for you.
> BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy macs.
> Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment. employers
> use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in microsoft and
> windows applications.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is
> broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go
> in the trash. That's all.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Beth,
> I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to
> want a
> Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better
> user
> experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it.
> Now...
> If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine
> could
> I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I
> didn't
> really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable
> but is
> also not rehab's problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
> be able to use one so bad.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
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> 40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:11:52 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <587E52F99AAC4D368490520D1135511F at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> reply-type=response
>
> Beth,
> Rehab doesn't care what you want. they care about what will make you
> employed. Sorry to say it this way, but it?s the truth.
> I'd say you need to justify your needs in writing and see if other vr
> clients have gotten macs.
> If they won't buy it, get one through other sources such as family or a
> lions club. You can go to college with a windows pc, so if rehab will buy
> you one,
> use that.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Hi, all.
> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
> be able to use one so bad.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:26:25 -0500
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
> Message-ID: <DFEB06E8308A42EF8B678E6DFF59A5DC at Gloria>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi,
> I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't
> think
> people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even
> sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I
> used
> a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping
> me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who
> you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we
> all
> are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do
> everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It
> takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my
>> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
>> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
>> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
>> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
>> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
>> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
>> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
>> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
>> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
>> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
>> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
>> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
>> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
>> cheating.
>> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
>> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
>> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
>> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
>> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
>> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
>> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
>> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
>> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
>> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
>> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
>> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
>> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
>> I'm really not sure.
>> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
>> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
>> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
>> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
>> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
>> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
>> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
>> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
>> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
>> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
>> people this stupid?
>>
>> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Tyler,
>>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth
>>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>>> state,
>>>
>>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but
>>> I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>>> So I think it will be hard to get one.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Littlefield, Tyler
>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> computerfor college
>>>
>>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just
>>> get a pc.
>>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
>>>> this
>>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from
>>>> succeeding
>>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>>>> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you
>>>> want
>>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> Mac.
>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>>>> have,
>>>>
>>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> key and independence is the way.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>>> computerfor college
>>>>
>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>>
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:13:17 -0700
> From: Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB AZ
> Message-ID:
> <CANnXs0KEpvdRk_gZMwcL67dWZSNwYjFFBrOnkQXqHgGWtSo-zg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Ashley,
> I will bring it up at our August meeting.
> Thank you!
> Deb
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Ashley Bramlett
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Deb,
>> if you don't get an answer here, check with your state president. they
>> coordinate rooms for people.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Deb Mendelsohn
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB AZ
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Is there anyone planning on attending AZ State in September?
>> I was hoping to find a roomie and get funding info from those that got a
>> grant to attend Dallas.
>> TIA
>> Deb
>>
>> *
>> *
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.**
>> mendelsohn%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:36:00 -0300
> From: "Rania Ismail CMT" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
> Message-ID: <CB9E537605434C21BA3A421049EE93E6 at userPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I agree with what was said. I am not that good at math either.
> If you need help ask for it. Sighted people get th It's nothing to be
> ashamed of.
> Rania,e help they need all the time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Gloria G
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:26 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
>
> Hi,
> I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't
> think
>
> people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even
> sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I
> used
> a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping
> me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who
> you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we
> all
>
> are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do
> everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It
> takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my
>> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
>> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
>> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
>> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
>> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
>> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
>> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
>> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
>> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
>> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
>> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
>> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
>> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
>> cheating.
>> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
>> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
>> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
>> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
>> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
>> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
>> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
>> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
>> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
>> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
>> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
>> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
>> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
>> I'm really not sure.
>> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
>> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
>> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
>> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
>> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
>> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
>> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
>> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
>> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
>> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
>> people this stupid?
>>
>> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Tyler,
>>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth
>>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>>> state,
>>>
>>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but
>>> I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>>> So I think it will be hard to get one.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Littlefield, Tyler
>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> computerfor college
>>>
>>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just
>>> get a pc.
>>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
>>>> this
>>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from
>>>> succeeding
>>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>>>> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you
>>>> want
>>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> Mac.
>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>>>> have,
>>>>
>>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> key and independence is the way.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>>> computerfor college
>>>>
>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
> l.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>>
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co
> m
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:36:11 -0300
> From: "Rania Ismail CMT" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
> Message-ID: <86F6B5E229CE44CEB283932911D244B5 at userPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I agree with what was said. I am not that good at math either.
> If you need help ask for it. Sighted people get th It's nothing to be
> ashamed of.
> Rania,e help they need all the time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Gloria G
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:26 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
>
> Hi,
> I know this post was from yesteerday, but I just wanted to say I don't
> think
>
> people would think you were stupid. Everyone needs help at some point even
> sited people. There are plenty of people in college who have tutors. I
> used
> a tutor for a stats class and I did not feel stupid and the person helping
> me did not treate me as though I was of lower intellegence. No matter who
> you are, where you come from, how much money you have or do not have, we
> all
>
> are going to need help at one time or another. If someone says they can do
> everything by him or herself they are lying. Help is not a bad thing. It
> takes a strong person to recognize when they need help and ask for it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Writing isn't some people's strong point. I know for example that my
>> math skills are extremely weak. When I was in elementary school, the
>> teachers didn't really know how to show certain concepts to me. I did
>> long division, but whenever I would use my Brailler, students would
>> tell me I was distracting them and making it so they couldn't learn.
>> Then they would throw erasers and rubber bands and a bunch of other
>> stuff at me. The teachers never did anything because they were just as
>> uncomfortable with my blindness as the students were. Anyway, back in
>> those days it was considered cheating to use a calculator, but I used
>> to do it anyway, just so I could pass. In my family, even getting a c
>> was considered a failure. Now, I've heard that things have changed
>> nowadays, and it's pretty much acceptable to use a calculator, but I
>> would neverfeel comfortable doing it. I would feel like I was doing
>> something wrong, and I think you can get kicked out of college for
>> cheating.
>> I say all this because now I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes
>> to math. I need a calculator to do a lot of basic things. I can't even
>> calculate a tip for a cab or restaurant or whatever in my head. That's
>> just one of the reasons I'm not currently a student. I don't want to
>> fail or be kicked out of college for cheating.
>> The other reason I bring all this up is because, as I said, some
>> people are just weak in certain areas. tutoring may help in the short
>> term, but I think that these core curriculum skills, like reading or
>> math, are something that you're either good at or you're not. You
>> might be able to get some training wheels, and wobble your way through
>> the classes, but will it really increase your understanding to
>> noticeable proportions? I think not. It will get you through, and
>> maybe that's all that matters in the end, but due to my experiences
>> I'm really not sure.
>> I wouldn't discourage anyone from receiving tutoring, though. If that
>> makes the difference between a pass and a fail, then that's all you
>> need. But for me personally, I know there would be a lot of shame
>> surrounding it. I wouldn't feel right about paying someone an
>> astronomical (or minimal, if that's the case) fee just for them to go
>> running off and whisper about that stupid blind girl they had to help.
>> We've all heard about the dreaded stereotypes associated with
>> blindness. So wouldn't a person, a young person, and we all know how
>> ignorant certain people in this generation are, automatically put two
>> and two together, no matter how wrongly, and say hmmm, are all blind
>> people this stupid?
>>
>> On 7/23/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Tyler,
>>> good post. I couldn't have said it better. You have to justify and Beth
>>> hasn't articulated a good justification. Macs get viruses too. In my
>>> state,
>>>
>>> they tend to buy windows computers. I don't know why the preference, but
>>> I've never heard of them going the apple route.
>>> So I think it will be hard to get one.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Littlefield, Tyler
>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:32 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>> computerfor college
>>>
>>> Can I ask why you're pushing for a mac? pointing them to apple
>>> propiganda so you can get it doesn't work. If you know you want it
>>> because it does something better than the pc, go for it. Otherwise, just
>>> get a pc.
>>> On 7/19/2012 11:21 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>>>> just go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
>>>> this
>>>> in order to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>>>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>>>> adaptive technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
>>>> supervisor know that your rehab counselor is keeping you from
>>>> succeeding
>>>> in college and if they want you to pass your classes, you have got to
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> a computer. Because you aren't someone with time to worry about a
>>>> technology failure, you really need an apple computer that will be
>>>> dependable and has the best support in the world.
>>>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>>>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you
>>>> want
>>>> in college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> Mac.
>>>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>>>> They will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> firm that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
>>>> have,
>>>>
>>>> even though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> key and independence is the way.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Beth
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>>>> computerfor college
>>>>
>>>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>>>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>>>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>>>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>>>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>>>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>>>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>>>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>>>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>>>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>>>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>>>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>>>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>>>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
> l.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>>
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co
> m
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:00:03 -0600
> From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <500eaa7b.8295320a.0e47.6045 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get
> on certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better
> than Keyweb.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Beth,
> then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined?
> If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for
> you.
> BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy
> macs.
> Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment.
> employers
> use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in
> microsoft and
> windows applications.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is
> broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go
> in the trash. That's all.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Beth,
> I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to
> want a
> Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better
> user
> experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it.
> Now...
> If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine
> could
> I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I
> didn't
> really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable
> but is
> also not rehab's problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
> be able to use one so bad.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%
> 40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:24:16 -0400
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <002601cd69a8$0205a900$0402a8c0 at hometwxakonvzn>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> That's not a good enough justification Beth. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
>
>> Hi, all.
>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility
>> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good
>> tech
>> support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good
>> English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is
>> not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do
>> because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
>> I
>> can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to
>> use one so bad.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:30:57 -0600
> From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <500eb1b9.288c320a.65ea.619f at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Noth8ing's ever a good enough justification. I'm sorry, but
> justification is very hard to do, and I mean really hard. There
> is justification though for the fact that universal accessibility
> should be built into computers. Windows attempted it with
> Narrator, and Narrator sucks. Apple got the Bolotton Award for
> 2010 for its integration of Voiceover in ALL of its products.
> IOS and OS Lion both have some form of it. I am lucky my friend
> Jataya purchased an iPod touch for me, which alllows me to write
> emails and talk on Skype with friends. I can't live without it,
> and if I hadn't had it, I wouldn't have survived so many months
> without a working PC or Mac.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:24:16 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> That's not a good enough justification Beth. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:13 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
>
> Hi, all.
> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
> accessibility
> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with
> good tech
> support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't
> speak good
> English, and given the demographics of india and its people,
> blindness is
> not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat
> do I do
> because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me.
> That's all I
> can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be
> able to
> use one so bad.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa
> ndefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:36:46 -0600
> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <500EB2FE.1030805 at tysdomain.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon.
> Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover
> question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like
> you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess,
> but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good
> tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as
> well.
>
> Basically here's what this comes down to.
> You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said
> you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it
> again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get,
> compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and
> holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through
> school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your
> choice, just wanted to throw all that out there.
> On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote:
>> Hi, all.
>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility
>> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good
>> tech support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't
>> speak good English, and given the demographics of india and its
>> people, blindness is not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I
>> said, "Whuat do I do because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no
>> answer for me. That's all I can say. There are other reasons I want
>> a mac, and I want to be able to use one so bad.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
> that dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers
> Message-ID:
> <1343140900.96685.YahooMailClassic at web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Arielle and all,
> They never had sign in and sign out policy before when I would go to the
> LWSB as it was known back then. However, the area where WSB is located has
> become dramatically worse. I lived in a on campus apartment across from
> WSB when I was working on my graduate certificate at the University of
> Arkansas at Little Rock, and one night a friend and I were dropping off a
> friend who lived in a off campus across from UALR and close to the WSB.
> This friend who is sighted looked around to make sure knowone was around
> when he got out and was very careful until he go into his apartment. So to
> be honest I am not sure why WSB has a sign in and sign out policy, but to
> be quite honest I am not sure whats been going on there recently. Matybe
> something has happened that caused them to bring this policy and without
> knowing the reason for why this policy came about, it would not be fair
> for us to come to a conclusion.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training Centers
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:54 PM
>> Agreed. Is there any reason why a
>> center needs to keep up with
>> students' whereabouts any more than a college dorm needs to
>> keep up
>> with its residents' whereabouts? One could argue that if a
>> college
>> student gets hurt, the university or dormitory could be held
>> liable
>> for that as well.
>> When I lived in the dorm I think we were required to sign
>> out or at
>> least tell our dorm residential advisor (RA) if we were
>> leaving for an
>> extended period, like a weekend or vacation. This seemed
>> fair to me
>> and I always abided by that rule. But I would never want to
>> live
>> somewhere where I had to let an authority figure know every
>> time I
>> wanted to head to the grocery store, friend's house, bar or
>> anywhere
>> else for just a few hours.
>> If a center student doesn't show up to class, or a roommate
>> reports
>> them missing, then the staff will attempt to track the
>> student down.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 7/21/12, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> >? ???And since most people these
>> days have cell phones if the center needs to
>> >
>> > locate a particular student chances they're only a cell
>> phone away.
>> >
>> > Peter Donahue
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> > To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:17 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training
>> Centers
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't understand the sign-out thing. The staff of the
>> LCB never asked
>> > students (in the two times I spent extended time there
>> for training and
>> > my O and M degree) to sign out or in. It was just
>> expected that, since
>> > everyone there are adults, they could handle
>> themselves. when students
>> > went out for independent travel lessons, the teachers
>> would go looking
>> > for them only if they were gone for a longer amount of
>> time than would
>> > be necessary under normal circumstances. And if, while
>> making a pass by
>> > the student, they seemed okay, were on track, and
>> getting near the
>> > school, then the teachers would let the students get on
>> with things and
>> > debrief the route as usual. Most of the time though,
>> travel instructors
>> > and their students had each other's cell numbers for
>> checking in with
>> > each other as needed. After school, the staff honestly
>> had no idea
>> > where students were. Again, it was just assumed that,
>> like any other
>> > adult, they could handle themselves. It was also
>> understood that the
>> > students looked out for each other as needed and the
>> staff would only
>> > intervene if the situation called for it. Otherwise,
>> the staff of the
>> > LCB firmly believed that blind adults are, well, adults
>> and don't need
>> > anyone to look after them as though they were
>> teenagers. So in summary,
>> > I think the sign-in/out procedure says a lot about how
>> the center views
>> > their students: are they viewed as people needing
>> someone to watch over
>> > them, or are they adults there to learn a new set of
>> skills to maintain
>> > their independence?
>> >
>> > Respectfully,
>> > Jedi
>> >
>> >
>> > Original message:
>> >> Brandon,
>> >> I'm not saying you let them know where you are;
>> just signing in and out.
>> >> They ask you to do that at the state center in VA.
>> >> You may not know where you're going, good point. I
>> agree about the
>> >> transit
>> >> thing though; unfortunately, perhaps centers save
>> money by buying cheap
>> >> land.
>> >> Since training centers need to account for everyone
>> , I can see why they
>> >> due
>> >> that. They might have a legal obligation to know if
>> you are on or off
>> >> property. I'm not a lawyer, but it probably has to
>> do with that. When we
>> >> had
>> >> a drill at college, they took attendance before
>> everyone left. It was a
>> >> community college though and may be less common at
>> universities.
>> >
>> >> It seems that if WSB wanted to serve their students
>> in the best
>> >> situation,
>> >> they would relocate to a safer area.
>> >> But I can understand the sign out thing.
>> >
>> >> Ashley
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:43 AM
>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training
>> Centers
>> >
>> >> I totally Agree, training centers should be in the
>> areas where blind
>> >> people
>> >> would be most likely to live, not the cheapest
>> place to live. I was at a
>> >> program in LA and although the neighborhood wasn't
>> too bad, a guy found a
>> >> dead body at a bus stop when I was there...
>> >> Also, I am a firm believer in training centers
>> being in a town with good
>> >> public transportation, NOT LA!
>> >
>> >> Not be able to contact the student? Mom call your
>> child's cell phone?
>> >> That's
>> >> what my parents did/do when I was at a training
>> program and now living on
>> >>
>> >> my
>> >> own. I'm an adult, if you want to know where I am
>> you can call me... In a
>> >> new city I'm probably going to not know what's
>> around, so most of my
>> >> outings
>> >> will say something like "exploring" or "taking a
>> walk." Of course if I'm
>> >> staying any extended time at a place where my phone
>> is going to be off
>> >> for
>> >> most of the time, I should let someone know where I
>> am, but I go
>> >> everywhere
>> >> in my area and it would just become too much to
>> tell someone where I am
>> >> at
>> >> all times.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >
>> >> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Ashley Bramlett
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:42 PM
>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training
>> Centers
>> >
>> >> Dave,
>> >> Oh my! Which year did you attend WSB? Were you
>> there for a vocational
>> >> program or independent living? I've heard good
>> things about the
>> >> vocational
>> >> tracks like IRS, but not the general life skills
>> teaching. Its sad to
>> >> house
>> >> a center for the blind in a high crime area. Seems
>> counter productive
>> >> because the director should want students to get
>> out and do their own
>> >> thing.
>> >> There is a tendency to exaggerate here because
>> people like nfb centers
>> >> more.
>> >> Its nfb list after all.
>> >> Are you serious? Near enough to hear gun shots?
>> >> Ashley
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Dave Webster
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:43 PM
>> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training
>> Centers
>> >
>> >> Hi.? My name is Dave.? I actually have
>> been to both centers lcb and
>> >> wsb which is world services for the blind which
>> formally was lions world
>> >> services for the blind.? I attended lcb back
>> when Joanne was director.
>> >> World services gane me good training in a
>> vocational skill but you're
>> >> right
>> >> it didn't give good training in personal management
>> skills.? things such
>> >> as
>> >> cooking cleaning and stuff like that wasn't all
>> that great.? One of the
>> >> things to keep in mind is that wsb is in a very
>> very bad area of Little
>> >> rock.? I would not want to go out on my own
>> especially at night.? Noone
>> >> could pay me enough money to do that.? its
>> such a bad enough area that
>> >> people have heard gun shots on campus.? People
>> have seen others get
>> >> arrested
>> >> right there in front of the school so.? Just
>> my thoughts.-----Original
>> >> Message-----
>> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Arielle Silverman
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:22 PM
>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Good vs. Not-so-good Training
>> Centers
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >> I have not been to WSB and so cannot comment on its
>> quality as a center
>> >> for
>> >> specific job training (i.e. the IRS program), but I
>> have heard lots of
>> >> negative rumors about it, though none as disturbing
>> as what Amber related.
>> >>
>> >> I
>> >> will, however, comment on the fact that WSB
>> apparently houses students in
>> >> dormitories and does not give students any
>> opportunities to prepare their
>> >> own meals or, presumably, to travel very far
>> between home and campus. I am
>> >>
>> >> a
>> >> proud graduate of LCB and I would recommend NFB
>> centers for many reasons,
>> >> but one of the biggest differences I can see
>> between good and bad
>> >> training
>> >> centers is whether or not students live on or off
>> campus. This is simply
>> >> because, in my experience, at least half of what I
>> gained from attending
>> >> a
>> >> center were things I learned off campus by cooking,
>> cleaning and
>> >> traveling
>> >> on my own. When you make the commitment to go to a
>> residential center,
>> >> you
>> >> really need to get the most bang for your buck, so
>> to speak, and I think
>> >> dorm-style accommodations really limit what you are
>> able to learn from
>> >> the
>> >> experience. As just one example, a skill I acquired
>> at LCB that I still
>> >> use
>> >> on a daily basis is knowing how to safely and
>> confidently cross the
>> >> street
>> >> at an uncontrolled intersection. I practiced this a
>> few times in travel
>> >> class, but nearly all the safety and confidence I
>> acquired in crossing
>> >> uncontrolled intersections came from needing to
>> cross Bonner and
>> >> Mississippi
>> >> twice each day to get to and from the LCB from my
>> off-campus apartment.
>> >> Similarly, many of us decide to attend centers to
>> improve nonvisual
>> >> cooking
>> >> and cleaning skills and I don't even understand how
>> you can really
>> >> practice
>> >> those things if you live in a dorm. Laundry maybe,
>> but that's about it.
>> >> Training isn't about just trying something out once
>> or twice, but instead
>> >> it's about practice and repetition, which is best
>> gotten when you are
>> >> doing
>> >> things like cooking, cleaning and street travel on
>> a regular basis and
>> >> out
>> >> of necessity. Not to mention that having to sign in
>> and out must really
>> >> make
>> >> people less motivated to venture out on their
>> own--but that's a whole
>> >> other
>> >> issue.
>> >> So if you are struggling between center options,
>> I'd urge you to consider
>> >> whether the living situation is on or off campus as
>> a major factor in
>> >> your
>> >> decision.
>> >> BTW, I think someone might have posted recently
>> with questions about LCB,
>> >> but I don't recall who it was. If you still have
>> questions, you can give
>> >> me
>> >> a call at
>> >> 602-502-2255
>> >> There's a lot I could say about my LCB experience
>> and a live? phone
>> >> conversation will probably be more helpful than
>> email.
>> >> Best,
>> >> Arielle
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40comcast.ne
>> >> t
>> >
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
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>> >
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:55:25 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <210D4FBCFBDD40659314B91F0A31B6B9 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Beth,
> Oh, I'm glad you can use a braille note to do email. That is a good thing!
> That is definitely an awesome notetaker too. Yes, I agree a braille not
> cannot do all websites, that is why a computer is needed for that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> I am using a BrailleNote, which is compromising my ability to get
> on certain websites. Internet Explorer or Safari do it better
> than Keyweb.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:06:58 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Beth,
> then what do you use now to write messages if the pc is ruined?
> If you want a mac badly, have parents or a charity buy it for
> you.
> BAsed on numerous comments here, it sounds like rehab doesn't buy
> macs.
> Besides, you need to keep your windows skills up for employment.
> employers
> use windows pcs and they will hire applicants well versed in
> microsoft and
> windows applications.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:09 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> True, Ignasi, the thing is my PC is not under warranty and is
> broken. So it doesn't work, and the ruined hard drive has to go
> in the trash. That's all.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 02:33:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> Beth,
> I don't think anyone is saying that you don't have reasons to
> want a
> Mac. I wanted a Mac because I find that it gives me a much better
> user
> experience than Windows did. I could afford it and I bought it.
> Now...
> If I couldn't afford my Mac and I had a pc that works just fine
> could
> I have convinced rehab to buy me one? Probably not, because I
> didn't
> really need a Mac. I just wanted one, which is very respectable
> but is
> also not rehab's problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal
> accessibility integrated into the product. Also, I really want
> something with good tech support. The tech support people from
> India sometimes don't speak good English, and given the
> demographics of india and its people, blindness is not thought to
> be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do because
> JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
> I can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to
> be able to use one so bad.
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%
> 40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
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> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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> se%40gmail.com
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> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:06:06 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
> Message-ID: <784A7CC8BD334F02B4038A22B10CD67A at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Tyler,
> While I agree Beth needs to comprimise, I also think perhaps we should be
> supportive.
> A lot of people struggle getting what they need through rehab. I said
> pretty
> much the same thing as you, without being blunt.
> I wonder, has anyone had rehab purchase a mac? I still have over 50
> messages
> to read on the rehab thread,
> but I don't think any nabster has come forward and said rehab got them a
> mac.
> I say this to point out that many people like macs for various reasons,
> but
> rehab did
> not get them one.
>
> Anyway, Beth, I'd suggest you justify that and if you cannot, then get a
> pc
> through them.
> At this point, it sounds like you'd be lucky for them to pay for college a
> third time for you.
> I'd be thankful if they paid for college and get a mac through other
> means.
>
> You know all, as a side note this is why parents IMO should get equipment
> for students. Some cannot afford it I know. But it seems to me parents
> should buy more equipment for blind children rather than relying on the
> government for it! Its part of being a supportive parent. Parents get
> sighted kids cars, car insurance, many visual entertainment games
> including
> the wii and playstation, computers, computer accessories, and more. Yet
> blind children do not get computers and the software to run them.
> Something
> is wrong with this picture. BTW, my parents bought my pc, but not my
> braille
> note. So they did share some of the cost of buying equipment and sending
> me
> to school which is part of rasing a kid.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Littlefield, Tyler
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 10:36 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] why I want a mac
>
> It really sounds like you're just trying to jump on the mac band waggon.
> Great, "universal" accessibility. Now call apple and ask a voiceover
> question. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sounds like
> you're changing your mind as to why you want it, which is fine I guess,
> but you really need to figure out why it is you need a mac. You get good
> tech support from a lot of companies that sell pcs too, so that's out as
> well.
>
> Basically here's what this comes down to.
> You can keep complaining about dvr and not getting a mac. You've said
> you failed college twice already, and they won't put you through it
> again. At this point, you need to accept whatever you can get,
> compromize and work with them. Going in requesting a $1500 system and
> holding to it when they already have issues about putting you through
> school for the third time isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all your
> choice, just wanted to throw all that out there.
> On 7/24/2012 3:13 AM, Beth wrote:
>> Hi, all.
>> To explain why I would like a Mac is simple: universal accessibility
>> integrated into the product. Also, I really want something with good
>> tech
>> support. The tech support people from India sometimes don't speak good
>> English, and given the demographics of india and its people, blindness is
>> not thought to be a good thing in India. So if I said, "Whuat do I do
>> because JAWs isn't working?" They'll have no answer for me. That's all
>> I
>> can say. There are other reasons I want a mac, and I want to be able to
>> use one so bad.
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
> that
> dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:11:18 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
> Message-ID: <BC5BB935C75A42F7B8751B85A92284AB at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Josh,
> Mike i s staying in ACB btw; he said that on an ACB list.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:32 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
>
> What?
> After he posted on NFB-Talk, saying that he was leaving them?
> Wow!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 7/20/12, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing you've got
>> slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really aren't
>> clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then you
>> just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can respond
>> by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination of
>> the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but it
>> works well.
>> On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that, either.
>> For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be
>> phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you would
>> still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most cases for
>> a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be
>> modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like arcade
>> games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency. That
>> would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't have
>> the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy
>> wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other
>> country's business, never stepping up to help our own people.
>> Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to agree
>> with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization for
>> or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness. That's
>> like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I don't
>> want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard enough
>> of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a point.
>> While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of such an
>> organization, gaining something from being surrounded by like-minded
>> individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either
>> organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of both
>> because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of ideas,
>> support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play for
>> so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and we all
>> deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of our
>> own self-discovery.
>> Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided to
>> stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors about
>> people without knowing the whole story.
>>
>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>>> Josh,
>>> you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all sarcasm
>>> and really go for it, but I have to.
>>> You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad information and
>>> one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into bashing me
>>> when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into "Dam
>>> the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against something, but
>>> hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment and
>>> software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost lots of
>>> money to make this accessible."
>>>
>>> It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just get
>>> Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that switch back
>>> and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like Sean and
>>> the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent philosophy you
>>> can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your
>>> self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power to you.
>>> Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless
>>> confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact, and
>>> actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the NFB not
>>> passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if I
>>> remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about things
>>> costing to much a few messages back.
>>>
>>> I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB, either. I
>>> believe every organization has good members who can give good, valid
>>> information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also have a
>>> high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as well.
>>>
>>> I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled and
>>> accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to pay
>>> disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because we
>>> can't have something costing money now, can we?
>>>
>>> As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would work
>>> out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a strip
>>> of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the braille on
>>> it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it would
>>> certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of them
>>> clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the IPhone
>>> for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks it up and
>>> announces it.
>>> On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>> Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money accessible?
>>>> My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a Brailled
>>>> currency.
>>>> What is your idea of accessible currency?
>>>> I'm curious!
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>>>>> I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every general
>>>>> session from 8 to 5.
>>>>> But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for whatever
>>>>> reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we sure
>>>>> don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of business. Your
>>>>> logic is flawless, my friend.
>>>>> On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>> Well, did you attend the convention?
>>>>>> You should know!
>>>>>> I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the
>>>>>> blind, but they vote against fair wages.
>>>>>> BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted against it.
>>>>>> I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's
>>>>>> position, because accessible currency would put the manufacturers of
>>>>>> the IBill out of business.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Josh,
>>>>>>> Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your lips,
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's been
>>>>>>> things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arielle: that was a great post.
>>>>>>>> I just have one question about this.
>>>>>>>> If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote, "Do
>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>> Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act,"
>>>>>>>> resolution at their convention?
>>>>>>>> Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below the
>>>>>>>> federally mandated minimum wage.
>>>>>>>> Hmmm!
>>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was
>>>>>>>>> excellent. I would also add two things:
>>>>>>>>> 1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In fact,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> would argue that most committed ACB members and many other
>>>>>>>>> successful
>>>>>>>>> blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also
>>>>>>>>> espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean described.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that
>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>> not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or
>>>>>>>>> encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it
>>>>>>>>> occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the
>>>>>>>>> organization should be structured, not about fundamental
>>>>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken
>>>>>>>>> differing
>>>>>>>>> approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily
>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>> that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> the two organizations should merge into one super-organization of
>>>>>>>>> blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have
>>>>>>>>> choices
>>>>>>>>> about which organization to join and that there's not one big
>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>> monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the
>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>> and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> it means to be blind than we might think on first glance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine
>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB
>>>>>>>>> increasingly
>>>>>>>>> takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both individual
>>>>>>>>> coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them
>>>>>>>>> down.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become
>>>>>>>>> available online, and you will find that most of these resolutions
>>>>>>>>> address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of
>>>>>>>>> pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However, though
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access for
>>>>>>>>> blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will take
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we are
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to those
>>>>>>>>> barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will
>>>>>>>>> fight
>>>>>>>>> for full access to educational technology, but instead of waiting
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work to
>>>>>>>>> harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so that
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other
>>>>>>>>> words,
>>>>>>>>> instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design
>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>> each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual
>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>> toward both of these goals?
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tyler:
>>>>>>>>>> I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't
>>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>>> agree
>>>>>>>>>> with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that
>>>>>>>>>> hesitation
>>>>>>>>>> about getting involved with organized religion. I started going
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> campus
>>>>>>>>>> ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free
>>>>>>>>>> dinner,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In some
>>>>>>>>>> churches,
>>>>>>>>>> the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that
>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who
>>>>>>>>>> disagrees
>>>>>>>>>> slightly
>>>>>>>>>> is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we
>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's
>>>>>>>>>> okay
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have
>>>>>>>>>> generally
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same core beliefs.
>>>>>>>>>> That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> that's my individual personality. I often find that, when
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> disagrees
>>>>>>>>>> with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of
>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I
>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>> shun
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marc Workman:
>>>>>>>>>> Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the
>>>>>>>>>> barriers.
>>>>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an
>>>>>>>>>> absolutely
>>>>>>>>>> amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor adaptability
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> barriers.
>>>>>>>>>> On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a
>>>>>>>>>> colored
>>>>>>>>>> person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and I
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>> Quite
>>>>>>>>>> frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> colored
>>>>>>>>>> person. With the first generation college student part, I have
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> seek
>>>>>>>>>> mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> many,
>>>>>>>>>> many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that role
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> before"
>>>>>>>>>> in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've
>>>>>>>>>> realized
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who
>>>>>>>>>> hears
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did
>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email:
>>>>>>>>>> In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> dreams
>>>>>>>>>> and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for people
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> reach
>>>>>>>>>> for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope. With
>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>>> always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The
>>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yours in Federationism,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Justin Salisbury
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>>>>>>>>> Class of 2012
>>>>>>>>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>>>>>>>>> East Carolina University
>>>>>>>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ?Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>> the world; indeed, it?s the only thing that ever has.?
>>>>>>>>>> ?MARGARET
>>>>>>>>>> MEAD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool;
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool;
>>>>> he
>>>>> that
>>>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:17:09 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
> Message-ID: <50370E2A0E8245EDAF1D54F3A1D0C347 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Peter,
> its not that simple; you have to justify it to rehab. I think she should
> help herself via the steps I outlined before an advocate. Steps were
> getting
> it in writing, going to her counselor's supervisor and maybe holding
> another
> meeting but this time get it recorded.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donahue
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:34 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
>
> Hello Beth and everyone,
>
> Appeal! And get the NFB involved as your advocate.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:01 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
> computerfor college
>
>
> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
> Thanks,
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:22:17 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
> Message-ID: <B42AC0D8721045C19C2014A5E5A9A53F at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Ignasi,
> where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school
> without
> rehab if you can pay for it.
> That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family
> put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my
> college
> choices.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ignasi Cambra
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
>
> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I
> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what
> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to
> schools just like anyone else?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm
>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no
>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I
>> want
>> to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut
>> they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged.
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
>> workingcomputerfor college
>>
>> Hello,
>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>> just
>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in
>> order
>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a
>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>> adaptive
>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor
>> know
>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and
>> if
>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer.
>> Because
>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you
>> really
>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support
>> in
>> the world.
>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want
>> in
>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a
>> Mac.
>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>> They
>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm
>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even
>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key
>> and
>> independence is the way.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Beth
>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>> computerfor college
>>
>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>> Thanks,
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> iggs%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:25:20 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity
> Message-ID: <A54FB50337F1449193892F332C75CE28 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Julie,
> there is debate, but speaking out only can go so far.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julie McGinnity
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Homogeneity
>
> Hi all,
>
> While I understand the reluctance to speak up against a stance the
> organization has taken, I believe that the organization cannot grow
> and change if this does not happen. This is why we let people have a
> voice on these lists and at board meetings, so that each person can be
> heard, even if they disagree with the majority. One person can
> influence many others. Think about the debate over some of those
> resolutions. I listened to the different points of view on a couple
> of them before casting my vote, and some of those votes were rather
> close.
>
> We need people in the NFB who are willing to give us different ways of
> looking at things, even (especially) when they do not fit the typical
> mold we are used to. I believe in the positive philosophy of
> blindness, but I'm not going to say that there is only one way to
> implement this philosophy. So if you disagree with the majority on an
> issue, let your voice be heard, so that you can change the current
> position. I have questioned things within the NFB before, and in
> discussing my issues, I have learned a lot about why things are the
> way they are. We can't lose the ones who disagree with us on any
> given issue because if we do, the democratic process wouldn't work.
> There would be no debate, no majority or minority. That would be
> extremely boring and would not make a good organization.
>
> On 7/20/12, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>> Sometimes I wish it were as simple as you're making it out to be.
>> While I am not denying that individual Federationists can (and do)
>> have widely differing opinions, when you become a fully participating
>> member in the Federation you are agreeing, in essence, to keep those
>> disagreements within the Federation and to abide by the policies and
>> programs of the Federation, even when you personally disagree. That's
>> why I'm uncomfortable with organized religion; that's why, for all my
>> admiration and agreement with most of what the Federation does, I hold
>> myself back from full participation. To illustrate, I will copy and
>> paste a copy of the NFB pledge I found in the braille monitor.
>> "I pledge to participate actively in the effort of the National
>> Federation of the Blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security
>> for the blind; to
>> support the policies and programs of the Federation; and to abide by
>> its constitution."
>> I can not in good faith sign on to such a pledge as it binds me to
>> support the programs of the Federation, even in those rare instances
>> when I don't want to. If I disagree with the course the Federation
>> takes on a particular issue, I can not voice that disagreement
>> publicly outside the Federation. At best, I can stay under the radar
>> by not making my opposition to such and such a policy widely known
>> outside the Federation. People can, and have, been expelled from the
>> Federation for loudly voicing their disagreement in public.
>> No, before you ask, I can't really think of one particular issue on
>> which I passionately disagree with the NFB's position. Certainly
>> right now I have no personal opinion diverging enough from the NFB's
>> official stance to compel me to public opposition. But it could
>> happen, and I refuse to sign away my right to free expression,
>> wherever I chose, in the event it becomes an issue. I agree with
>> about 90 percent of commonly held NFB philosophy, and that's enough
>> for me to get involved and participate as much as I can without
>> signing on to that pledge. It's kind of a complicated issue, and I
>> see it as far less black and white than you've made it out to be. Of
>> course, that is totally my opinion, and I don't intend for this to
>> sound like a personal attack in the slightest. If I'm entitled to my
>> beliefs, you're certainly entitled to yours.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 7/20/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> There are always different opinions in our organization. If you've met
>>> two
>>> or three Federationists-or ACB people, for that matter-with strong
>>> opinions
>>> in any direction, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
>>>
>>> We do not shun people who disagree with our national leadership.
>>>
>>> I am always willing to discuss what we're doing.
>>>
>>> I make decisions because of my core beliefs and not just because someone
>>> from Baltimore told me what to do.
>>>
>>> At the end of the day, after a vote, the answer is "yes" or "no," but
>>> that
>>> doesn't mean that every single member voted "yes" or every single member
>>> voted "no." We organizationally adopt the position of the majority
>>> within
>>> us.
>>>
>>> About closet Federationism: We'd love to have you active in our
>>> organization
>>> because actively supporting our efforts helps us accomplish our goals
>>> much
>>> more than quietly supporting us. If we all sat in our closets and let
>>> everyone else do the work, we wouldn't live in the wonderful world that
>>> our
>>> active members have worked so hard to create for us. In fact, we might
>>> not
>>> even have closets in which to sit.
>>>
>>> In an earlier post, I used organized religion to illustrate the certain
>>> absence of philosophical homogeneity, and that was really the only tie I
>>> was
>>> mentioning or even implying with religion. I understand that some
>>> people
>>> are very uncomfortable with the concept of organized religion-as I once
>>> was-and wished not to make anyone uncomfortable.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>> Class of 2012
>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>> East Carolina University
>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>
>>> ?Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>> change
>>> the world; indeed, it?s the only thing that ever has.? ?MARGARET MEAD
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:28:08 -0300
> From: "Rania Ismail CMT" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get
> aworkingcomputerfor college
> Message-ID: <529CB72704474E4BBEE1E15B5B4E071A at userPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I payed for school the second time I went threw to become a massage
> therapist because rehab wouldn't pay for me to go to school a second time.
> I am glad I did.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get
> aworkingcomputerfor college
>
> Ignasi,
> where do you live if not the US? Yes you can apply and go to school
> without
>
> rehab if you can pay for it.
> That is the catch; many rely on rehab to do it. I was fortunate my family
> put me through school, so I didn't care what rehab thought about my
> college
> choices.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ignasi Cambra
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:10 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
>
> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry if I
> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about what
> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you apply to
> schools just like anyone else?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac because I'm
>> "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few keystrokes as "no
>> proficiency." I don't know what to say or do at this point because I
>> want
>
>> to succeed in college and thi stupid work assessment training, but whaut
>> they did to me, I don't know whether it should be pointed out or avenged.
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
>> workingcomputerfor college
>>
>> Hello,
>> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you should
>> just
>> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and this in
>> order
>> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by a
>> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get that
>> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with the
>> adaptive
>> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the supervisor
>> know
>> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in college and
>> if
>> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a computer.
>> Because
>> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology failure, you
>> really
>> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best support
>> in
>> the world.
>> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
>> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience you want
>> in
>> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to have a
>> Mac.
>> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best for you.
>> They
>> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un moving and firm
>> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can have, even
>> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence is the key
>> and
>> independence is the way.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Beth
>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a working
>> computerfor college
>>
>> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
>> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
>> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
>> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party apps
>> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational assessment
>> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
>> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group and
>> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
>> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be the
>> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and their
>> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
>> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
>> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal people
>> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
>> Thanks,
>> Beth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> iggs%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:31:41 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do
> togetaworkingcomputerfor college
> Message-ID: <CB2EE8754113492ABA87E2FD2A7E9B8D at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Beth,
> Why don't you find out? Talk to your financial aid office at the college
> you'll go to and talk to an academic advisor. They should be able to tell
> you if you can qualify for pell grants with your academic situation.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 8:16 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do
> togetaworkingcomputerfor college
>
> I don't know if I qualify because I'm on academic probation due
> to the failures of previous times in college. What happens to
> people on academic probation and financial stuff with that sort
> of thing?
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:53:44 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to
> getaworkingcomputerfor college
>
> Also, do you not qualify for Pell grants?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 7/20/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly my point. I can't afford school with SSI only and the
> loans aren't worth crap. Even with Obama's little forgivenes
> plan on loans, it's still not worth a lick to pay the darn
> things
> back.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:10:44 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get
> aworkingcomputerfor college
>
> The basic answer to your question is yes, a person can just go.
> But ...
> if you are a client of rehab, have an approved plan, etc., then
> they pay
> for stuff. So, she may need to get rehab's approval for
> financial reasons.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 7/20/2012 12:10 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
> I really don't know how the system works in the US so I'm sorry
> if I
> sound completely ignorant, but why do you care so much about
> what
> rehab wants you to do? If you want to go to college can't you
> apply to
> schools just like anyone else?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the link even. They don't want me to have a Mac
> because I'm "not proficient." They are interpreting even a few
> keystrokes as "no proficiency." I don't know what to say or do
> at this point because I want to succeed in college and thi
> stupid
> work assessment training, but whaut they did to me, I don't know
> whether it should be pointed out or avenged.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:21:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> workingcomputerfor college
>
> Hello,
> If you graduated high school and got excepted into college, you
> should just
> go and tell them that you're going and you need this, this and
> this in order
> to be independent. You need to have a technology assessment by
> a
> professional blind technology person and it's your right to get
> that
> assessment. If your counselor doesn't get you the meeting with
> the adaptive
> technology professionals, talk to their supervisor. Let the
> supervisor know
> that your rehab counselor is keeping you from succeeding in
> college and if
> they want you to pass your classes, you have got to have a
> computer. Because
> you aren't someone with time to worry about a technology
> failure, you really
> need an apple computer that will be dependable and has the best
> support in
> the world.
> http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
> This is why you need a mac, and you have not had the experience
> you want in
> college with your PC, so because you want the best, you need to
> have a Mac.
> First rule of rehab, they want you to do and show what's best
> for you. They
> will only guide you if you let them. you must be sure, un
> moving
> and firm
> that this is what you want and there is nothing better you can
> have, even
> though there may be things you're uncertain about. Confidence
> is
> the key and
> independence is the way.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:01 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] meeting results and what to do to get a
> working
> computerfor college
>
> Hi. The meeting with rehab was unsuuccessful in doing anything
> but made me aware of stuff. They don't want me to have a Mac
> because they don't feel I should have one. I understand they
> don't buy macs in Colorado, but my concern about third party
> apps
> fell on deaf ears. They want me to do a "situational
> assessment
> and work adjustment training." They found an agency for me to
> work at, and they're forcing me to go to mental health group
> and
> counseling therapies. Honestly, I'm getting tired of this. I
> didn't think a mental issue would cause the employment to be
> the
> top priority. But I can't exactly go along with Rehab and
> their
> plans. They pretty much coerced me into doing the work
> adjustment training, saying that I was "putting the cart before
> the horse" with college and all. But most sighted normal
> people
> go to college and get a major. What am I supposed to do?
> Thanks,
> Beth
>
>
> --
> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> for nabs-l:
>
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> se%40gmail.com
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> info for
> nabs-l:
>
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> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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> se%40gmail.com
>
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
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