[nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Beth thebluesisloose at gmail.com
Sun Jun 10 04:56:53 UTC 2012 

There's=20a=20great=20underground=20tech=20freak=20posse=20I=20hang=20out=20=
with=20on=20
Skype.=20=20Theres=20lots=20of=20people=20who=20are=20good=20at=20lots=20of=
=20things,=20and=20
they=20don't=20realize=20it.
Beth

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Arielle=20Silverman=20<arielle71 at gmail.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Sat,=209=20Jun=202012=2022:27:52=20-0600
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Goodwill=20Boycott

Hi=20Brandon,
These=20are=20all=20good=20points.=20I=20like=20your=20statement=20about=20=
blind=20
people
who=20are=20"nurtured=20to=20act=20like=20they=20are=20mentally=20disabled"=
=20as=20I=20
have
met=20a=20few=20people=20who=20unfortunately=20seem=20to=20fit=20that=20des=
cription.
The=20problem=20is=20that=20there=20is=20no=20objective=20test=20to=20deter=
mine=20what=20
a
person=20is=20or=20is=20not=20capable=20of=20doing.=20Even=20so-called=20ob=
jective=20
tests
like=20IQ=20tests=20are=20incredibly=20biased=20and=20don't=20account=20for=

environmental=20factors=20that=20artificially=20limit=20people's=20abilitie=
s=20
or
knowledge,=20like=20what=20is=20expected=20of=20them=20by=20parents=20and=20=
teachers,=20
or
what=20skills=20they=20are=20or=20are=20not=20taught.=20There=20is=20resear=
ch=20showing=20
that
when=20people=20are=20expected=20to=20behave=20or=20perform=20in=20a=20cert=
ain=20way,=20
they
tend=20to=20fulfill=20that=20expectation=20(this=20is=20called=20a=20
"self-fulfilling
prophesy;=20if=20you're=20interested=20in=20the=20research,=20look=20up=20
"Pygmalian
effect").=20So=20when=20teachers=20are=20randomly=20told=20that=20some=20ki=
ds=20are
smarter=20than=20others,=20they=20tend=20to=20treat=20those=20"smart"=20kid=
s=20
differently
without=20even=20realizing=20it=20and=20eventually=20the=20"smart"=20kids=20=
end=20up
performing=20better=20than=20the=20other=20kids.=20The=20reverse=20pattern=
=20too=20
often
happens=20with=20disabilities.=20People=20have=20so=20many=20assumptions=20=
about=20
how
disabilities=20limit=20potential,=20and=20people=20in=20authority=20can=20a=
ct=20in=20
ways
that=20make=20those=20assumptions=20come=20true.
I=20also=20agree=20that=20people=20with=20disabilities=20would=20be=20much=
=20more
productive=20in=20sheltered=20jobs=20if=20they=20did=20work=20that=20was=20=

intrinsically
interesting=20to=20them=20and=20if=20the=20work=20was=20in=20a=20field=20th=
ey=20were=20
actually
good=20at.=20It=20is=20common=20knowledge=20that=20people=20of=20all=20ages=
=20and=20
mental
abilities=20will=20do=20a=20better=20job=20at=20any=20task=20if=20they=20fi=
nd=20the=20task
enjoyable=20and=20motivating.=20Too=20often,=20sheltered=20jobs=20are=20sim=
ply=20
too
boring=20to=20really=20engage=20people.=20Also,=20people=20with=20disabilit=
ies=20
have
their=20own=20talents=20that=20are=20rarely=20utilized=20in=20sheltered=20j=
obs.=20I=20
have
figured=20out=20that=20if=20I=20were=20forced=20to=20do=20a=20sheltered=20w=
orkshop=20job,=20
I
would=20probably=20be=20the=20one=20losing=20them=20money=20if=20they=20pai=
d=20me=20at=20
minimum
wage,=20because=20I=20have=20never=20been=20good=20at=20making=20stuff=20wi=
th=20my=20
hands=20or
using=20machines.=20Not=20only=20would=20I=20be=20bored=20to=20tears,=20but=
=20I=20just
wouldn't=20be=20good=20at=20it.=20I=20am=20much=20better=20at=20writing=20a=
nd=20thinking=20
and
doing=20math,=20so=20I=20hope=20that=20society=20will=20let=20me=20use=20th=
ose=20skills
instead=20of=20forcing=20me=20to=20do=20work=20I'm=20not=20skilled=20at.
Regarding=20your=20comment=20about=20unemployment=20among=20the=20blind,=20=
it=20is=20
true
that=20many=20fields=20are=20accessible=20to=20the=20blind=20these=20days,=
=20yet=20the
unemployment=20rate=20is=20still=20staggering.=20There=20are=20many=20reaso=
ns=20for
unemployment=20among=20the=20blind.=20I=20think=20one=20reason=20is=20that=
=20
employers
want=20to=20hire=20applicants=20with=20relevant=20experience,=20and=20in=20=
many=20
fields,
the=20entry-level=20position=20that=20people=20get=20at=20first=20to=20gain=
=20
experience
isn't=20accessible=20to=20the=20blind.=20This=20might=20not=20be=20true=20w=
ith
programming,=20but=20in=20some=20fields=20it=20is=20really=20hard=20to=20ge=
t=20your=20
foot=20in
the=20door=20even=20if=20it's=20easier=20to=20work=20at=20higher=20levels.=
=20For=20
example,
before=20becoming=20a=20teacher,=20you=20need=20to=20do=20student=20teachin=
g,=20which
means=20you=20are=20working=20under=20someone=20else=20who=20might=20not=20=
use=20
accessible
materials=20or=20who=20will=20doubt=20your=20ability=20to=20do=20the=20job.=
=20Without
experience,=20it's=20harder=20to=20allay=20people's=20initial=20discriminat=
ory
doubts=20and=20fears=20about=20hiring=20a=20blind=20person.=20Also,=20even=
=20within=20
an
accessible=20field,=20individual=20employers=20might=20use=20materials=20th=
at=20
aren't
accessible=20to=20the=20blind.=20So=20even=20though=20programming=20is=20ve=
ry
accessible,=20if=20some=20employers=20require=20you=20to=20use=20languages=
=20or=20
scripts
that=20aren't=20accessible,=20this=20will=20limit=20job=20options.
Arielle

On=206/9/12,=20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs=20<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>=20
wrote:
=20Hello,
=20It's=20a=20tricky=20situation.=20We=20can't=20really=20say=20what=20it's=
=20like=20
being=20mentally
=20disabled=20and=20it's=20hard=20to=20say=20what=20mentally=20disabled=20c=
an=20or=20can=20
not=20do.=20We
=20also=20can't=20tell=20if=20the=20blind=20who=20are=20nurtured=20to=20act=
=20like=20
mentally=20disabled
=20people=20really=20are=20mentally=20=20disabled.
=20*That's=20a=20mouthful!*
=20I=20am=20of=20the=20opinion=20that=20mentally=20disabled=20people=20are=
=20way=20under=20
employed=20and
=20jobs=20like=20Goodwill=20are=20completely=20the=20wrong=20job=20for=20ma=
ny=20of=20
them.=20But=20I'm
=20not=20a=20professional=20and=20I=20can=20only=20say=20from=20personal=20=
experience=20=20
that=20many
=20mentally=20disabled=20people=20can=20do=20what=20they=20want=20quite=20w=
ell=20and=20
often=20it's
=20because=20they=20are=20babied=20and=20misunderstood=20=20that=20they=20a=
re=20
pressured=20into
=20doing=20jobs=20they=20aren=E2=80=99t=20good=20at.

=20I=20do=20wonder=20the=20need=20of=20blind=20adults=20to=20be=20working=20=
at=20good=20will=20
in=20the=20first
=20place=20though=20when=20it's=20not=20that=20hard=20learning=20programmin=
g=20and=20
it's=20pretty
=20easy=20to=20get=20reeducated=20for=20free=20in=20the=20United=20States=20=
as=20a=20blind=20
person.=20If
=20your=20career=20isn't=20working=20out,=20I=20don't=20see=20why=20one=20w=
ouldn't=20just=20
take=20a
=20class=20at=20their=20community=20college=20and=20change=20their=20job.=20=
I=20believe=20
SSI=20is=20for
=20college=20students=20and=20those=20fresh=20out=20of=20college,=20or=20fo=
r=20a=20back=20
up=20when=20work
=20isn't=20coming.=20I=20am=20still=20a=20student,=20but=20I=20know=20I=20h=
ave=20for=20sure=20
jobs=20if=20I=20go
=20into=20programming=20or=20being=20a=20TVI.=20So=20other=20than=20the=20m=
oral=20=20
issues,=20I'm=20not
=20sure=20why=20capable=20blind=20people=20are=20working=20at=20goodwill.
=20Thanks,

=20Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs
=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20Arielle=20Silverman
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20June=2009,=202012=208:32=20PM
=20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Goodwill=20Boycott

=20Hi=20all,
=20I=20don't=20shop=20at=20Goodwill=20either,=20but=20I=20was=20regularly=20=
donating=20
items
=20like=20used=20clothes=20to=20Goodwill,=20and=20my=20parents=20do=20as=20=
well.=20A=20
customer
=20boycott=20might=20not=20matter=20much=20but=20a=20donor=20boycott=20woul=
d=20probably=20
hurt
=20them=20considerably.=20I=20have=20to=20say=20I=20found=20Justin's=20argu=
ments=20very
=20persuasive.=20I=20just=20hope=20that=20if=20we=20boycott=20all=20branche=
s=20
nationally,=20we
=20make=20it=20very=20clear=20that=20what=20we=20want=20is=20a=20change=20t=
o=20national=20
policy.
=20Interestingly,=20I=20used=20to=20rent=20an=20apartment=20from=20a=20woma=
n=20(I'll=20
call=20her
=20S)=20whose=20full-time=20job=20was=20to=20be=20a=20live-in=20caretaker=20=
for=20a=20woman=20
with
=20Down's=20syndrome=20and=20significant=20mental=20retardation=20(I'll=20c=
all=20
her=20C).
=20Since=20I=20rented=20the=20apartment=20right=20below=20theirs,=20I=20got=
=20to=20know=20
both=20S
=20and=20C=20quite=20well=20and=20learned=20a=20bit=20about=20C's=20situati=
on.=20
Apparently=20C
=20is=20employed=20by=20a=20program=20for=20people=20with=20intellectual=20=

disabilities
=20similar=20to=20Goodwill's=20but=20it=20wasn't=20Goodwill=20itself.=20I=20=
think=20S.=20
told
=20me=20that=20C.=20was=20paid=20around=20$1=20per=20hour=20for=20doing=20a=
n=20extremely=20
menial
=20job=20although=20I=20don't=20remember=20what=20that=20job=20was=20exactl=
y.=20
However,=20I
=20don't=20think=20C.=20had=20any=20living=20expenses=20at=20all=20because=
=20she=20lived
=20rent-free=20with=20S.=20She=20may=20have=20been=20helping=20pay=20for=20=
groceries.=20
The
=20program=20she=20was=20in=20was=20very=20custodial=20and=20I'm=20not=20su=
re=20she=20even=20
had
=20independent=20access=20to=20the=20money=20she=20earned=20at=20her=20job.=

=20I=20don't=20think=20I=20can=20really=20judge=20whether=20people=20with=20=

disabilities=20like
=20C.'s=20are=20capable=20of=20living=20without=20custodial=20care=20or=20s=
pending=20
their
=20own=20money,=20any=20more=20than=20a=20deaf=20person=20should=20be=20abl=
e=20to=20judge=20
how
=20independent=20blind=20people=20can=20be.=20I=20do=20suspect=20that=20peo=
ple=20like=20
C.
=20would=20achieve=20more=20if=20they=20were=20held=20to=20higher=20expecta=
tions,=20and
=20higher=20expectations=20should=20come=20with=20higher=20wages=20and=20mo=
re=20
freedom.
=20I=20definitely=20believe=20that=20anyone=20who=20lives=20independently=20=
should=20
be
=20paid=20at=20least=20the=20minimum=20wage,=20and=20I=20think=20it=20is=20=
clear=20that=20
blindness
=20by=20itself=20doesn't=20prevent=20anyone=20from=20living=20independently=
.=20
However,=20I
=20do=20wonder=20if=20minimum=20wage=20is=20necessary=20for=20those=20who=20=
don't=20have=20
living
=20expenses=20or=20who=20don't=20manage=20their=20own=20finances=20because=
=20they=20are
=20living=20in=20custodial=20care=20situations.=20I'm=20sure=20there=20are=
=20people=20
in
=20these=20custodial=20arrangements=20who=20shouldn't=20be=20there,=20but=20=
that=20
almost
=20sounds=20like=20a=20separate=20issue.=20These=20people=20aren't=20in=20c=
ustodial=20
care
=20because=20they=20are=20earning=20low=20wages,=20but=20because=20their=20=
parents=20or
=20others=20acting=20on=20their=20behalf=20have=20decided=20they=20don't=20=
have=20the
=20intellect=20or=20the=20maturity=20to=20make=20adult=20decisions.=20Again=
,=20this=20
should
=20never=20be=20said=20about=20people=20who=20are=20just=20blind=20without=
=20other
=20disabilities.=20As=20far=20as=20intellectual=20disabilities=20go,=20in=20=
some=20
cases
=20this=20judgment=20might=20be=20right;=20in=20other=20cases=20it=20might=
=20be=20wrong.=20
But=20if
=20someone=20is=20clearly=20not=20able=20to=20manage=20adult=20expenses,=20=
should=20
they=20be
=20paid=20adult=20wages?=20It's=20tricky.
=20I=20can=20also=20understand=20the=20argument=20that=20if=20noncompetitiv=
e=20
employment
=20programs=20for=20the=20disabled=20raise=20wages,=20they=20can't=20hire=20=
as=20many
=20workers.=20This=20ultimately=20means=20that=20instead=20of=20a=20bunch=20=
of=20
disabled
=20workers=20earning=20crappy=20wages,=20some=20will=20earn=20a=20decent=20=
wage=20and=20
others
=20will=20earn=20nothing.=20Of=20course,=20we=20hope=20that=20the=20reducti=
on=20in
=20noncompetitive=20jobs=20might=20bring=20more=20disabled=20workers=20into=
=20the
=20competitive=20job=20market.=20A=20mandatory=20minimum=20wage=20would=20a=
lso=20
force
=20companies=20with=20high=20salaries=20at=20the=20top=20to=20redistribute=
=20their=20
payscale
=20more=20fairly.
=20Arielle

=20On=206/9/12,=20Chris=20Nusbaum=20<dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>=20wrote:
=20I=20agree,=20Humberto,=20and=20I=20hope=20what=20you=20say=20comes=20tru=
e.=20However,=20
there's=20a
=20lot=20of=20change=20we=20need=20to=20make=20in=20order=20for=20this=20to=
=20happen.=20Even=20
if=20we
=20overturn=20the=20subminimum=20wage=20provision,=20and=20I=20hope=20and=20=
pray=20that=20
we=20do,=20we
=20can't=20possibly=20tell=20employers=20that=20they=20have=20to=20hire=20p=
eople=20with
=20disabilities.=20So,=20we=20need=20to=20change=20the=20beliefs=20and=20th=
e=20
attidudes=20of
=20society,=20including=20employers,=20about=20the=20competence=20of=20blin=
d=20
people.=20I
=20know,
=20it's=20a=20big=20job,=20but=20I=20think=20we've=20made=20a=20lot=20of=20=
progress=20so=20far.

=20Just=20my=20thoughts,

=20Chris

=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org=20
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]=20On
=20Behalf=20Of=20Humberto=20Avila
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20June=2009,=202012=2010:10=20PM
=20To:=20'National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list'
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Goodwill=20Boycott

=20Hello,=20I=20agree=20with=20this=20as=20well.=20I=20hope=20that=20by=20d=
oing=20the=20
boycott=20to=20this
=20company,=20in=20the=20national=20/=20universal=20spectrum,=20we=20are=20=
able=20to=20
put=20pressure
=20on=20employers,=20and=20on=20other=20companies=20and=20corporations,=20a=
s=20well=20
as
=20organizations=20who=20pay=20subminimum=20wages.=20We=20could=20eventuall=
y=20end=20
up
=20spreading=20the=20word=20of=20stopping=20companies=20to=20pay=20subminim=
um=20wages=20
and=20they
=20could=20even=20see=20that=20people=20with=20disabilities=20and=20includi=
ng=20blind=20
people
=20are
=20capable=20of=20being=20paid=20like=20the=20sighted=20population.=20If=20=
potential=20
employers
=20see=20this=20change=20happening,=20those=20employers=20will=20have=20a=20=
light=20
bulb=20lit=20up,
=20and=20will=20be=20able=20to=20see=20that=20blind=20people=20are=20compet=
ent,=20then=20
will=20hire
=20them.=20Then=20we=20can=20make=20more=20change.=20I=20see=20this=20happe=
ning,=20from=20
my=20personal
=20opinion.=20Let's=20hope=20that=20the=20NFB=20does=20this.

=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org=20
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]=20On
=20Behalf=20Of=20Sophie=20Trist
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20June=2009,=202012=206:57=20PM
=20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Goodwill=20Boycott

=20Justin,

=20I=20agree=20with=20the=20points=20you've=20made.=20If=20Goodwill=20was=20=
boycotted
=20universally,
=20it=20would=20put=20more=20pressure=20on=20them=20to=20pay=20their=20disa=
bled=20workers=20
fair
=20wages.=20Plus,=20if=20Goodwill=20developed=20a=20centralized=20wage=20po=
licy=20and=20
gave
=20their
=20workers=20fair=20wages,=20other=20corporations=20might=20follow=20their=
=20lead.

=20=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20Justin=20Salisbury=20<PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
=20To:=20"nabs-l at nfbnet.org"=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org=20Date=20sent:=20Sat,=209=
=20Jun=20
2012
=2023:19:15=20+0000
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Goodwill=20Boycott

=20One=20more=20note:=20I=20think=20that=20local=20business=20decision-make=
rs=20
within=20Goodwill
=20Industries=20would=20be=20educated/led=20to=20philosophical=20change=20s=
imply=20
by=20the
=20fact
=20that=20the=20corporate=20leaders=20of=20Goodwill=20Industries=20adopted=
=20a=20
universal=20fair
=20wage=20policy=20(if=20they=20did),=20so=20that=20would=20help=20with=20t=
he=20
education,=20too.

=20Justin=20M.=20Salisbury
=20Class=20of=202012
=20B.A.=20in=20Mathematics
=20East=20Carolina=20University
=20president at alumni.ecu.edu

=20=EB=B0=A1ever=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20co=
mmitted=20
citizens
=20can=20change=20the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=EB=AD=A9=20the=20only=20thing=
=20that=20ever=20
has.?
=20=EB=BE=8FARGARET=20MEAD
=20________________________________________
=20From:=20Justin=20Salisbury
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20June=2009,=202012=207:13=20PM
=20To:=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Subject:=20Goodwill=20Boycott

=20Arielle,=20Gabe,=20and=20all:

=20I=20like=20the=20point=20that=20you've=20made=20about=20the=20decentrali=
zed=20wage=20
policies
=20and
=20rewarding=20good=20locations,=20but=20do=20you=20think=20that=20perhaps=
=20a=20
benefit=20to
=20boycotting=20universally=20would=20be=20a=20possibility=20that=20Goodwil=
l=20
Industries
=20would=20create=20a=20centralized
=20(universal)=20policy=20that=20all=20locations=20must=20pay=20their=20wor=
kers=20
fair=20wages?

=20I=20feel=20like=20the=20end=20result=20that=20we=20want=20is=20for=20Goo=
dwill=20
Industries=20to
=20adopt
=20a=20universal=20standard=20of=20paying=20all=20workers=20fair=20wages,=20=
and=20the=20
approach
=20that=20you=20all=20have=20mentioned=20seems=20to=20me=20to=20address=20t=
he=20decisions=20
in
=20individual=20locations.=20=20I=20do=20understand=20the=20point=20of=20le=
ading=20
local=20business
=20leaders=20to=20undergo=20philosophical=20change=20and=20choose=20to=20pa=
y=20their=20
workers
=20fair=20wages,=20but=20which=20item=20is=20the=20top=20priority:=20educat=
ion=20of=20
individuals
=20or

=20achievement=20of=20fair=20wages?=20=20=20That's=20not=20a=20rhetorical=20=
question;=20I
=20want=20to=20hear=20opinions=20on=20it.

=20Justin

=20Justin=20M.=20Salisbury
=20Class=20of=202012
=20B.A.=20in=20Mathematics
=20East=20Carolina=20University
=20president at alumni.ecu.edu

=20=EB=B0=A1ever=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20co=
mmitted=20
citizens
=20can=20change=20the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=EB=AD=A9=20the=20only=20thing=
=20that=20ever=20
has.?
=20=EB=BE=8FARGARET=20MEAD


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=20r%40gmail.com








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