[nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.

Wed Jun 13 03:50:57 UTC 2012

What about Jose Filiciano?
Thanks, Joshua

On 6/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> Stevie Wonder hasn't made it a big deal that he supports any blind
> organization, Andrea Bocelli hasn't made it a big deal he's a part of any
> big organization, Ray Charles in the movie about him didn't even use a cane,
> so I wonder if they really do want to promote independence?
> I haven't heard about Wonder taking the stage with his dance moves, the
> articles I've read make Bocelli out as having a noticeable blindness on
> stage. I perform all the time on stage and people have no idea that I'm
> blind. That's why I get parts! I've actually never been hired as a blind
> person, so I'm not sure if I should be insulted or not...
> But the parts that call for "A blind actor" are far and few between, so I
> don't think these stars need to be promoting their blindness. Blindness is
> just a part of one, like being blond or being tall. Why should I make a big
> deal about it? Sure it's a great marketing strategy, but once people come to
> watch you perform, you want to blow them away. None of this "I'm going to
> sit at the piano and don't move like everyone expects me to do..."
> The only reason why I didn't become a dancer was because I can't stand to
> watch dancing... It's super boring! But I love dancing, and I've never had
> any problem with any of my dance teems, dance recitals or dancing in a
> musical. Once you're out there, everyone should be equal and even
> professional performers have a hard time seeing on stage, so in some
> respects it's easier for you to be dashing around at a hundred million miles
> an hour, because you don't need to wait for your eyes to adjust! I've been
> sighted guide so many times I can't count. Sighted people are totally blind
> for a little bit when they are plunged from staring into 4 or 5 floodlights
> to having them turned off instantly so everyone is in pitch blackness.
> I'm just a little curious why these stars aren’t making blindness cool...
> They can, products blind people use and the way blind people do things is
> cool, but I've never seen anyone use Jaws on the Ellen show.
> Perhaps more actors will come out of college and we can start making a
> presence in the professional performing and acting world, other than the
> scant handful of professionals I know.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>
> I agree with your points here.
> I'd say though, it's sad that famous people have tried to do it, and
> have failed, miserably.
> I thought, that the following blind musicians did a good job of making
> it coool, as you put it.
> #1. Ray Charles.
> #2. Stevie Wonder
> #3. The Blind Boys of Alabama, and the Five Blind Boys of Mississippi,
> (yes, I included Gospel groups.)
> #4. Ronnie Milsap, (he needs to put out something new!)
> Also, who could forget the late Doc Watson?
> These guys are my role models, that I look to, because they didn't let
> blindness stop them!
> I'm also proud of Parnelle Diggs, for doing what no other blind person
> has tried to do, or at least, not in Arkansas!
> He ran for congress!
> I hope he wins, BTW.
> That way, he can be that someone famous, that we're hoping for!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 6/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Josh,
>> We're talking nuance of the English Language here. The sighted community
>> calls us visually impaired, not sight impaired. Saying "Sight impaired" is
>> weird unfortunately.
>> I agree with you on the meanings that can be put into it, but when selling
>> something, one needs to use the terms that are most familiar to those who
>> you're selling to.
>> A little over a hundred years ago the term Jazz meant to have sex. I
>> wouldn't ask someone if they wanted to go to a jazz club and take them to
>> a
>>
>> strip bar, or one of the bordellos in Vegas... I don't say to a girl I'm
>> trying to empress: "You looked splendidly gay last night."
>> It's just weird... That's what I am talking about when we need to
>> assimilate
>>
>> into sighted culture when we want to sell ourselves in a sighted world.
>> I agree we should proclaim our pride in being blind to the highest
>> mountain
>>
>> tops, but until someone famous makes "being blind cool", we have to candy
>> up
>>
>> our visual impairment to the sighted community so they don't think we're
>> infested with some kind of rabid disease that will possibly maybe rub off
>> onto them. Because in a sighted world, being blind is the worst disability
>> imaginable.
>> I'm sad people think like this, but it's just the way things are at this
>> time.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:34 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>
>> Brandon, I agree with you on everything, except this one point.
>> I don't like the term, "Visually impaired!"
>> Sight, and vision are two different things.
>> Sight, is what we lack, because we can't see with our physical eyes.
>> Vision, is mental/spiritual.
>> The NFB has lots of vision!
>> If we didn't, we wouldn't be fighting for accessibility.
>> We're not visually impaired, we're sight impaired.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Wow! Asking if someone's from a lighthouse?
>>> I've not heard of that either... But why are you telling them that you're
>>> blind in the first place? They don't tell you they're sighted, why should
>>> you tell them you're blind?
>>> Perhaps if they ask if you have a disability you may say you're visually
>>> impaired, but I think that's against the law.
>>> I've found that using the word "Blind" when you're trying to sell
>>> yourself
>>> in the sighted community often turns people off. When one says "Visually
>>> impaired" That leaves the person with the image of someone with bad
>>> vision,
>>>
>>> not someone who's blind. (Note that TVI means: "Teacher of the visually
>>> impaired, and it's not TOB).
>>> If I got asked if I was from the lighthouse, I'd just say, no that's too
>>> elementary for me... Then I ask them what they want to see.
>>> But I totally agree that Inaccessible products should be Illegal in the
>>> workplace. The law should be that all products by employers should be
>>> accessible. But meanwhile, the law should be that: All inaccessible
>>> products
>>>
>>> used in the workplace be modified to adequately fit the worker's needs.
>>> Papers must be put on the computer and programs either need to be made
>>> accessible or replaced with an accessible program. But I believe there is
>>>
>>> an
>>>
>>> obscure law somewhere called the ADA that keeps employers from inquiring
>>> about a disability or refusing you work based on the fact you have a
>>> disability.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Wasif, Zunaira
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:00 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> Sometimes extreme measures are required to overcome attitudinal hurdles
>>> such as this one.  I haven't made up my mind about the quota but I know
>>> that it helped African Americans enter the work place.   Maybe the only
>>> way to quickly and effectively remedy this employment issue is through
>>> reverse discrimination.  The legislation is there in the form of the ADA
>>> and rehab acts, but it isn't implemented.  I work with clients every day
>>> who can't get a job because the employer's computer system is running a
>>> program that is incompatible with JAWS or Zoom text.  The fact that
>>> employers are still purchasing this type of software is discriminatory!
>>> It is the equivalent of not providing an elevator in a multiple level
>>> building. Maybe the best antidote for this type of discrimination is
>>> reverse discrimination.  The NFB is advocating for "more programs," but
>>> the potential applicant shouldn't have to go through a lighthouse or
>>> through any program.  They should be able to apply off of the street
>>> like anyone else.  A blind applicant shouldn't require a certification
>>> from a Lighthouse saying that they can type before an employer will even
>>> interview them.  I'm working in this field and I see that happen every
>>> day.  If a visually impaired client calls Hilton for a customer service
>>> job the first question the recruiter asks is, "are you working with the
>>> Lighthouse?"  The reason that companies do this is because they want
>>> their corporate tax credit and they want assurance from the Lighthouse
>>> that the blind person has the skills for the job.  My question is, how
>>> do they find out if a nonvisually impaired employee has the skills?
>>> They want an incentive to hire disabled people.  The attitude is "oh,
>>> yeh?  You want me to hire a blind person?  You better give me a tax
>>> break."  In other words, they are saying, "Oh yeh?  You better pay me to
>>> hire that blind person."  This is the current situation.  Our government
>>> pays people to hire disabled workers and companies like Goodwill thrive
>>> off of this.  In job development exercises we are taught to market the
>>> corporate tax credit, not the client.  How is this any better than the
>>> quota system?  I'm not saying the quota system is perfect, but maybe
>>> it's the best option we have right now. Maybe its an effective way of
>>> proving that "we are worth something."    If there is a better option I
>>> would love to hear it so I can advocate for it in my agency and make
>>> change.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:26 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> The issue of hiring quotas for minority groups has popped up in the
>>> past, and it has caused nothing but controversy. If there is to be
>>> ahiring quota for disabled people, non-disabled people who were rejected
>>> or whose jobs were taken away and given to the disabled could argue
>>> reverse--discrimination. Besides, we want them to hire us because we're
>>> worth something, not just because they have to fill a certain quota.
>>> Evem mentally disabled individuals can perform simple factory jobs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Wasif, Zunaira" <Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:57:06 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> What do people think about a hiring quota for disabled people?
>>> This
>>> would render Good Will's argument, that disabled people need to settle
>>> for subminum wages or no wages, obselete.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 6:03 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> Ashley,
>>>   You said there may not be a set corporate policy, and I suppose you're
>>> probably right.  But there should be, and that's why this boycott makes
>>> sense to me.  If you have some branches paying any employees below the
>>> minimum wage, you really do need a national policy to set that straight.
>>> Unfortunate, but true.  I really think it is that simple...this is one
>>> of those few issues where there isn't much of a grey area, in my humble
>>> opinion.
>>>   Take it or leave it,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 6/11/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Elizabeth,
>>> Perhaps, the figure supports my theory that in fact most employees are
>>>
>>> paid
>>>
>>> above minimum wage. As Arielle said, most locations vary in what they
>>> pay. I
>>>
>>> don't think there is a set corporate policy.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Elizabeth
>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:24 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>> Please forgive me as I did not read through the entire article you
>>> make reference to in your post. However, now that I have read it, I am
>>>
>>> still wondering how they can come up with an average of $7.47 when
>>> someone is only making $1.44. I am not a math genius by any means, but
>>>
>>> it would seem to me that if someone is only making $1.44, and the
>>> average is $7.47, then that would mean someone is making a  considerable
>>> amount more than what most people are making to achieve  such an
>>> average. Does this make any sense? I am not necessarily  questioning the
>>> information you cited from the article, but rather  questioning the
>>> information that was cited in the article itself.
>>> There is just something about it that does not make sense to me.
>>> I am
>>> sorry that I cannot find a better way to explain it.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:26 PM
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> Hi Elizabeth,
>>> I should have included my sources.  The first was the article  recently
>>> posted to the list by Anil Lewis:
>>>
>>> http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/208068/189/Goodwill-Pays-Disabl
>>> ed-E
>>> mployees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage This article gives the number of
>>> employees impacted and their average wage.  The reason that an  average
>>> wage of $7.47 could still be below minimum wage is because  many states
>>> have minimum wage laws that are higher
>>>
>>> than the federal minimum wage.  For  a quick list of minimum wage by
>>> state, go to:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages
>>>
>>> Please check my facts in case I misread.
>>>
>>> -Greg
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Elizabeth wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gregg,
>>>
>>> I have to say that your numbers to not make much sense to me. If  these
>>> employees are making $7.47 as mentioned in your post, , then  how
>>> exactly
>>>
>>> does that constitute as a subminimum wage? Is it possible the
>>> calculated
>>>
>>> average of these employees also includes the outrageously high
>>> salaries of those who may hold management positions which in effect
>>> would cancel out the extremely low subminimum wages paid to the  factory
>>> worker or the
>>>
>>> average employee thus creating an average that appears to be above  the
>>> national minimum wage? I am not sure where you found your  numbers, but
>>> if
>>>
>>> what you state is true, then I do not see how this would be an issue
>>>
>>> of paying people subminimum wage.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com
>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:46 AM
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
>>>
>>> Sean's post got me thinking about how many employees are actually
>>> impacted by this policy and how much it would cost for them to  actually
>>>
>>> make these changes.  According to the article Anil Lewis posted,  7300
>>> employees are hired on their certificate to pay disabled  workers less
>>> than minimum wage, but the average wage paid them is  $7.47, which is
>>> actually higher than the federal minimum wage of  $7.25.  I can't say
>>> what the average minimum wage for these workers
>>>
>>> would be because each state is different, but I wouldn't imagine it
>>>
>>> could be higher than $8.50.  So they would have to on average pay
>>> workers with disabilities
>>> $1 more per hour, $40 more per week, $2080 per year.  Multiply that
>>>
>>> by the 7300 employees on the certificate and you get $15,184,000.
>>>
>>> I was surprised that the number of workers impacted by this policy  is
>>> so
>>>
>>> high.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I thought these numbers were interesting and thought I  would
>>> post in case others are interested too.
>>>
>>> -Greg
>>> On Jun 10, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Gmail wrote:
>>>
>>> Good afternoon,
>>>
>>> One of the primary purposes of the boycott is to garner media
>>> attention
>>>
>>> for
>>> the minimum wage issue. The boycott effort and PR/media efforts  are
>>> complementary rather than mutually exclusive.
>>>
>>> We "pick on" Good Will because they are one of, if not the,  largest
>>> and
>>>
>>> most
>>> visible nonprofits who take advantage of the current law to pay
>>> workers
>>>
>>> with
>>> disabilities subminimum wages. When you're the biggest fish in the
>>>
>>> pond you're going to get noticed and your actions will be  scrutinized
>>> by people in and out of your field. That's just the  way it goes.
>>>
>>> Most of these workshops do the vast majority of their business  with
>>> the federal government, providing goods and services through
>>> non-competitive set-aside contracts. These goods and services are
>>> frequently provided at costs that exceed their fair market value.
>>> Obviously Good Will has their hands in other activities as well,  but
>>> the point stands. If taxpayers are being asked to subsidize  nonprofits
>>> to create employment opportunities
>>>
>>> for
>>> blind or otherwise disabled individuals, and we all, in effect,
>>> subsidize the very good, and sometimes exorbitant, salaries of the
>>>
>>> management of
>>>
>>> these
>>> non-profits, why is it a bad idea to subsidize the wages of  disabled
>>> individuals, even those who may not be able to produce  output
>>> justifying the minimum wage in the market?
>>>
>>> I think that the number of disabled folks in these workshops who  are
>>> incapable of truly earning the minimum wage is much lower than
>>>
>>> most people assume. And, again, if there is somebody whose level  of
>>> output truly only justifies $1.50 per hour, I am happy to  subsidize the
>>> wage to give them
>>>
>>> the
>>> dignity of equal treatment under the law.
>>>
>>> I myself worked for a time in a shop and was paid less than $4 per
>>>
>>> hour. I'm worth more than that. I saw others in the very same  boat.
>>> The law is discriminatory, and the system is corrupt and  fails to
>>> achieve its stated goals. Not only should the minimum  wage apply, but
>>> organizations wishing to receive preferential  treatment in government
>>> contracting should have to
>>>
>>> fill
>>> a stated percentage of their managerial positions with folks with
>>> disabilities and offer true training and upward mobility. As it  stands
>>>
>>> now,
>>> there is no real opportunity in the vast majority of these workshops.
>>>
>>> While it is true that, generally speaking, the NFB only speaks for
>>>
>>> the blind, on this issue we have over 40 different disabilities  rights
>>> organizations standing shoulder to shoulder with us saying  that it is
>>> reprehensible that we, today in the United States of  America, have a
>>> law on the books that codifies the inferiority and
>>>
>>> lesser ability of those with disabilities. We, and they, are
>>> completely correct. The boycott of Good
>>>
>>> Will
>>> is but one piece of the larger effort. It is incumbent upon each  of us
>>>
>>> to
>>> keep pressure on our Members of Congress to change the law. Will  it
>>> cost Good Will and other non-profits more money to pay all  their
>>> workers minimum wage? Yes, it will. Is the tiny increase in  cost
>>> realistically going to
>>>
>>> lead
>>> to the loss of job opportunities as many of the workshops claim?
>>> I
>>>
>>> can't see how it would. In fact, it won't. And the argument is
>>> disingenuous and, frankly, pretty disgusting. Say a shop worker
>>> currently makes $1.50 an
>>>
>>> hour.
>>> Say the law is changed and minimum wage now applies. Say the  employee
>>> is now paid $7.50 an hour. That's an extra $6 an hour, an
>>>
>>> extra $240 a week, and $12,480 a year. Say Good Will has 100  employees
>>> of whom this is the case (in reality there are fewer).
>>> This would represent an annual cost increase
>>>
>>> of
>>> $1,248,000 to Good Will. That's a lot of money to you or me, but a
>>>
>>> pittance to this giant non-profit. The same can be said of smaller
>>>
>>> shops, just on a smaller scale. The argument that all the poor
>>> unemployable disabled folks will be sent home jobless if the law  is
>>> changed is bogus and cynical.
>>> As I
>>> said before, the majority of these shops get the majority of their
>>>
>>> business through non-competitive contracts with the government, so
>>>
>>> the additional labor cost would be built right into the price the
>>> government pays.
>>> And, as
>>> I also said, I am happy to have my tax dollars go to affirm the
>>> dignity, value and legal equality of all individuals rather than  to
>>> support the
>>>
>>> 70,
>>> 80, 100k salaries of the management types at these shops who  somehow
>>> sleep at night under the illusion, or maybe delusion, that
>>>
>>> they are doing something positive for people with disabilities.
>>> It's wrong, it's disgusting, and, yes, it hits a raw nerve with me
>>>
>>> because I've lived it. If there is a minimum wage it should apply  to
>>> everybody in the employment market, full stop.
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>
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