[nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Sophie Trist
sweetpeareader at gmail.com
Wed Jun 13 14:39:01 UTC 2012
What, do they think a bunch of blind zombies are gonna destroy
the world? LOL, but anyway, Brandon, I see your point sadly. I
really don't like having to suck up to ignorance and prejudice,
but it's the only way for now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:59:18 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Hello Josh,
We're talking nuance of the English Language here. The sighted
community
calls us visually impaired, not sight impaired. Saying "Sight
impaired" is
weird unfortunately.
I agree with you on the meanings that can be put into it, but
when selling
something, one needs to use the terms that are most familiar to
those who
you're selling to.
A little over a hundred years ago the term Jazz meant to have
sex. I
wouldn't ask someone if they wanted to go to a jazz club and take
them to a
strip bar, or one of the bordellos in Vegas... I don't say to a
girl I'm
trying to empress: "You looked splendidly gay last night."
It's just weird... That's what I am talking about when we need to
assimilate
into sighted culture when we want to sell ourselves in a sighted
world.
I agree we should proclaim our pride in being blind to the
highest mountain
tops, but until someone famous makes "being blind cool", we have
to candy up
our visual impairment to the sighted community so they don't
think we're
infested with some kind of rabid disease that will possibly maybe
rub off
onto them. Because in a sighted world, being blind is the worst
disability
imaginable.
I'm sad people think like this, but it's just the way things are
at this
time.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Brandon, I agree with you on everything, except this one point.
I don't like the term, "Visually impaired!"
Sight, and vision are two different things.
Sight, is what we lack, because we can't see with our physical
eyes.
Vision, is mental/spiritual.
The NFB has lots of vision!
If we didn't, we wouldn't be fighting for accessibility.
We're not visually impaired, we're sight impaired.
Blessings, Joshua
On 6/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Wow! Asking if someone's from a lighthouse?
I've not heard of that either... But why are you telling them
that you're
blind in the first place? They don't tell you they're sighted,
why should
you tell them you're blind?
Perhaps if they ask if you have a disability you may say you're
visually
impaired, but I think that's against the law.
I've found that using the word "Blind" when you're trying to
sell yourself
in the sighted community often turns people off. When one says
"Visually
impaired" That leaves the person with the image of someone with
bad
vision,
not someone who's blind. (Note that TVI means: "Teacher of the
visually
impaired, and it's not TOB).
If I got asked if I was from the lighthouse, I'd just say, no
that's too
elementary for me... Then I ask them what they want to see.
But I totally agree that Inaccessible products should be Illegal
in the
workplace. The law should be that all products by employers
should be
accessible. But meanwhile, the law should be that: All
inaccessible
products
used in the workplace be modified to adequately fit the worker's
needs.
Papers must be put on the computer and programs either need to
be made
accessible or replaced with an accessible program. But I believe
there is
an
obscure law somewhere called the ADA that keeps employers from
inquiring
about a disability or refusing you work based on the fact you
have a
disability.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Wasif, Zunaira
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Sometimes extreme measures are required to overcome attitudinal
hurdles
such as this one. I haven't made up my mind about the quota but
I know
that it helped African Americans enter the work place. Maybe
the only
way to quickly and effectively remedy this employment issue is
through
reverse discrimination. The legislation is there in the form of
the ADA
and rehab acts, but it isn't implemented. I work with clients
every day
who can't get a job because the employer's computer system is
running a
program that is incompatible with JAWS or Zoom text. The fact
that
employers are still purchasing this type of software is
discriminatory!
It is the equivalent of not providing an elevator in a multiple
level
building. Maybe the best antidote for this type of
discrimination is
reverse discrimination. The NFB is advocating for "more
programs," but
the potential applicant shouldn't have to go through a
lighthouse or
through any program. They should be able to apply off of the
street
like anyone else. A blind applicant shouldn't require a
certification
from a Lighthouse saying that they can type before an employer
will even
interview them. I'm working in this field and I see that happen
every
day. If a visually impaired client calls Hilton for a customer
service
job the first question the recruiter asks is, "are you working
with the
Lighthouse?" The reason that companies do this is because they
want
their corporate tax credit and they want assurance from the
Lighthouse
that the blind person has the skills for the job. My question
is, how
do they find out if a nonvisually impaired employee has the
skills?
They want an incentive to hire disabled people. The attitude is
"oh,
yeh? You want me to hire a blind person? You better give me a
tax
break." In other words, they are saying, "Oh yeh? You better
pay me to
hire that blind person." This is the current situation. Our
government
pays people to hire disabled workers and companies like Goodwill
thrive
off of this. In job development exercises we are taught to
market the
corporate tax credit, not the client. How is this any better
than the
quota system? I'm not saying the quota system is perfect, but
maybe
it's the best option we have right now. Maybe its an effective
way of
proving that "we are worth something." If there is a better
option I
would love to hear it so I can advocate for it in my agency and
make
change.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:26 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
The issue of hiring quotas for minority groups has popped up in
the
past, and it has caused nothing but controversy. If there is to
be
ahiring quota for disabled people, non-disabled people who were
rejected
or whose jobs were taken away and given to the disabled could
argue
reverse--discrimination. Besides, we want them to hire us
because we're
worth something, not just because they have to fill a certain
quota.
Evem mentally disabled individuals can perform simple factory
jobs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wasif, Zunaira" <Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:57:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
What do people think about a hiring quota for disabled people?
This
would render Good Will's argument, that disabled people need to
settle
for subminum wages or no wages, obselete.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 6:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Ashley,
You said there may not be a set corporate policy, and I
suppose you're
probably right. But there should be, and that's why this
boycott makes
sense to me. If you have some branches paying any employees
below the
minimum wage, you really do need a national policy to set that
straight.
Unfortunate, but true. I really think it is that simple...this
is one
of those few issues where there isn't much of a grey area, in my
humble
opinion.
Take it or leave it,
Kirt
On 6/11/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
Elizabeth,
Perhaps, the figure supports my theory that in fact most
employees are
paid
above minimum wage. As Arielle said, most locations vary in what
they
pay. I
don't think there is a set corporate policy.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:24 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Hi Greg,
Please forgive me as I did not read through the entire article
you
make reference to in your post. However, now that I have read
it, I am
still wondering how they can come up with an average of $7.47
when
someone is only making $1.44. I am not a math genius by any
means, but
it would seem to me that if someone is only making $1.44, and
the
average is $7.47, then that would mean someone is making a
considerable
amount more than what most people are making to achieve such an
average. Does this make any sense? I am not necessarily
questioning the
information you cited from the article, but rather questioning
the
information that was cited in the article itself.
There is just something about it that does not make sense to me.
I am
sorry that I cannot find a better way to explain it.
Warm regards,
Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:26 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Hi Elizabeth,
I should have included my sources. The first was the article
recently
posted to the list by Anil Lewis:
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/208068/189/Goodwill-Pays-Disabl
ed-E
mployees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage This article gives the number of
employees impacted and their average wage. The reason that an
average
wage of $7.47 could still be below minimum wage is because many
states
have minimum wage laws that are higher
than the federal minimum wage. For a quick list of minimum
wage by
state, go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages
Please check my facts in case I misread.
-Greg
On Jun 11, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Elizabeth wrote:
Hi Gregg,
I have to say that your numbers to not make much sense to me. If
these
employees are making $7.47 as mentioned in your post, , then
how
exactly
does that constitute as a subminimum wage? Is it possible the
calculated
average of these employees also includes the outrageously high
salaries of those who may hold management positions which in
effect
would cancel out the extremely low subminimum wages paid to the
factory
worker or the
average employee thus creating an average that appears to be
above the
national minimum wage? I am not sure where you found your
numbers, but
if
what you state is true, then I do not see how this would be an
issue
of paying people subminimum wage.
Warm regards,
Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:46 AM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Good Will Boycott Etc.
Sean's post got me thinking about how many employees are
actually
impacted by this policy and how much it would cost for them to
actually
make these changes. According to the article Anil Lewis posted,
7300
employees are hired on their certificate to pay disabled
workers less
than minimum wage, but the average wage paid them is $7.47,
which is
actually higher than the federal minimum wage of $7.25. I
can't say
what the average minimum wage for these workers
would be because each state is different, but I wouldn't imagine
it
could be higher than $8.50. So they would have to on average
pay
workers with disabilities
$1 more per hour, $40 more per week, $2080 per year. Multiply
that
by the 7300 employees on the certificate and you get
$15,184,000.
I was surprised that the number of workers impacted by this
policy is
so
high.
Anyway, I thought these numbers were interesting and thought I
would
post in case others are interested too.
-Greg
On Jun 10, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Gmail wrote:
Good afternoon,
One of the primary purposes of the boycott is to garner media
attention
for
the minimum wage issue. The boycott effort and PR/media efforts
are
complementary rather than mutually exclusive.
We "pick on" Good Will because they are one of, if not the,
largest
and
most
visible nonprofits who take advantage of the current law to pay
workers
with
disabilities subminimum wages. When you're the biggest fish in
the
pond you're going to get noticed and your actions will be
scrutinized
by people in and out of your field. That's just the way it
goes.
Most of these workshops do the vast majority of their business
with
the federal government, providing goods and services through
non-competitive set-aside contracts. These goods and services
are
frequently provided at costs that exceed their fair market
value.
Obviously Good Will has their hands in other activities as well,
but
the point stands. If taxpayers are being asked to subsidize
nonprofits
to create employment opportunities
for
blind or otherwise disabled individuals, and we all, in effect,
subsidize the very good, and sometimes exorbitant, salaries of
the
management of
these
non-profits, why is it a bad idea to subsidize the wages of
disabled
individuals, even those who may not be able to produce output
justifying the minimum wage in the market?
I think that the number of disabled folks in these workshops who
are
incapable of truly earning the minimum wage is much lower than
most people assume. And, again, if there is somebody whose level
of
output truly only justifies $1.50 per hour, I am happy to
subsidize the
wage to give them
the
dignity of equal treatment under the law.
I myself worked for a time in a shop and was paid less than $4
per
hour. I'm worth more than that. I saw others in the very same
boat.
The law is discriminatory, and the system is corrupt and fails
to
achieve its stated goals. Not only should the minimum wage
apply, but
organizations wishing to receive preferential treatment in
government
contracting should have to
fill
a stated percentage of their managerial positions with folks
with
disabilities and offer true training and upward mobility. As it
stands
now,
there is no real opportunity in the vast majority of these
workshops.
While it is true that, generally speaking, the NFB only speaks
for
the blind, on this issue we have over 40 different disabilities
rights
organizations standing shoulder to shoulder with us saying that
it is
reprehensible that we, today in the United States of America,
have a
law on the books that codifies the inferiority and
lesser ability of those with disabilities. We, and they, are
completely correct. The boycott of Good
Will
is but one piece of the larger effort. It is incumbent upon each
of us
to
keep pressure on our Members of Congress to change the law. Will
it
cost Good Will and other non-profits more money to pay all
their
workers minimum wage? Yes, it will. Is the tiny increase in
cost
realistically going to
lead
to the loss of job opportunities as many of the workshops claim?
I
can't see how it would. In fact, it won't. And the argument is
disingenuous and, frankly, pretty disgusting. Say a shop worker
currently makes $1.50 an
hour.
Say the law is changed and minimum wage now applies. Say the
employee
is now paid $7.50 an hour. That's an extra $6 an hour, an
extra $240 a week, and $12,480 a year. Say Good Will has 100
employees
of whom this is the case (in reality there are fewer).
This would represent an annual cost increase
of
$1,248,000 to Good Will. That's a lot of money to you or me, but
a
pittance to this giant non-profit. The same can be said of
smaller
shops, just on a smaller scale. The argument that all the poor
unemployable disabled folks will be sent home jobless if the law
is
changed is bogus and cynical.
As I
said before, the majority of these shops get the majority of
their
business through non-competitive contracts with the government,
so
the additional labor cost would be built right into the price
the
government pays.
And, as
I also said, I am happy to have my tax dollars go to affirm the
dignity, value and legal equality of all individuals rather than
to
support the
70,
80, 100k salaries of the management types at these shops who
somehow
sleep at night under the illusion, or maybe delusion, that
they are doing something positive for people with disabilities.
It's wrong, it's disgusting, and, yes, it hits a raw nerve with
me
because I've lived it. If there is a minimum wage it should
apply to
everybody in the employment market, full stop.
Sean
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