[nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Wed Jun 13 20:55:13 UTC 2012

Hi all,

	This has been a very interesting thread to follow, and everyone has
been raising some good points. while intelligent discourse, discussion, and
debate are strongly encouraged on this list, I'd like to gently remind you
all that personal attacks and criticisms are not. Let's all be careful how
we make our points to each other and remember civility is key. 

Thanks,

Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Peter,
as usual you miss my point. Did you even go to college like we have? I mean 
I'm putting cogent arguments together.
If you held a job ever, you know  a competetive job takes social skills and
ability to  tend to your personal needs. You will not have an employer take 
you to the bathroom or do much for you. If you dress inappropriately or act 
socially inappropriately, your employer will also fire you. There is an 
expectation you can act like an adult when you go to work in an office. In
a 
factory, well I did not work in one, but I've heard you are assigned a 
certain amount of products to make or you do a certain part of the job on
an 
assembly line. You still have to work at a certain pace.

I hope you're right that other disabled people get training to move up the 
ladder or  out of
the workshop if they can.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Peter Donahue
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hello Ashley and everyone,

    Keep in mind that the legislation if passed would phase out subminamum
wages over a three-year period giving workshops plenty of time to develop
new and innovative programs to provide training to the most profoundly
disabled. Many of these people ended up in good Will and other workshops due
to their not having access to the same kind of training available to the
blind.

    The fact that one does not have good social skills or cannot attend to
their personal needs has nothing to do with the payment of subminamum wages
to disabled workers. These concerns need to be addressed differently. There
are also individuals with Servant's  Syndrome who when given the right job
or if they enter the right career can succeed beyond imagination. There are
cases of individuals who cannot attend to their personal needs but put them
in a factory setting, at a piano, or whatever you can name they're the best
at their craft. We need to avoid introducing one's level of independence,
personal, and social skills in to the issue of whether one should be paid a
minimum wage or not. Linda may not be able to dress herself but can play
Beethoven as if she was Beethoven himself and should be given a musician's
wage and the spotlight at Carnegie Hall.

    For too long these workshops have been used as "Dumping grounds" for the
seemingly unemployable. This era in our nation's history needs to come to an
end. I hope we all get behind the Good Will boycott and other efforts to
bring the payment of subminamum wages to disabled workers to an end.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Zunaira,
Oh, saying they shouldn't be hired sounds a bit harsh. Workshops and similar
settings do serve a valuable purpose since they produce products for the
government and military. I don't think disabled people should have to work
there, but it should be an option for them. Its doing something and they get
out of the house. I mean, its more productive than say sitting at home or
going to an adult day care center.

Some people cannot work competetively, and that is okay. You do what you
can. I've seen people with lots of limitations in school and around the
area. Some of them are in wheelchairs with speech problems from cerebral
pulsy. Others are autistic and cannot talk or talk limitedly. Others  just
have cognitive delays that prevent their brain from processing input
including speech in a regular speed.
It takes a lot to work competetively, not only making accomodations to
access text material, but also you have to have some social skills, dress
professionally, and yes keep up with deadlines. If one area is lacking, it
could cause problems working and holding a competetive job.

I believe in integrated settings when possible. I don't think a blind person
need work at Good will.
But I'm sure other disabled people need or want that setting. As for the
wage thing, I have mixed feelings. I do see the discrimination side, but on
the other hand, why pay them a regular wage when they are not performing a
competetive job and as I said before, many of them have guardians that
handle their money anyway since they cannot do it themselves.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Wasif, Zunaira
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Ashley-
I see where you are coming from.  If someone can't work competitively then
why should they be paid competitively?  The answer is that if they can't
work competitively, they shouldn't be hired.  The truth is that many people
can work competitively and employers need to realize that.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Brian Hatgelakas
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Please email me the press release about Goodwill to
brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

> Hi all,
> Brandon makes a good point. I believe media coverage and exposing the
> fact that good will pays sub minimum wage will help more than a boycott.
> Like Brandon, I have not shopped at Good will either nor do I plan to.
>
> Also, I don't understand why we picked on Good will when other large
> nonprofits do it.
> Second, we do not generally speak for all people with disabilities;
> most press releases say "largest consumer organization of the blind"
> or something like it, not people with disabilities.
> Our focus is usually on blind people.
> Third, I don't believe all Good will locations pay sub minimum wage.
> Where is the evidence?
> I noticed the press release gave no facts, just called for a boycott.
>
> Finally, if they do adopt minimum wage, this doesn't make sub minimum
> wage go away.
> I question why all people with disabilities should be paid minimum wage.
> Should people who are very cognitively delayed who have no expenses
> and are cared for in group homes be paid minimum wage? Something to
> think about.
> Should they be paid that much when they cannot see the paycheck and
> handle it like adults? No, they should not be paid $1, but I wonder if
> they really need minimum wage for work that is not comperable to that
> of other workers.
>
> I have mixed feelings on this issue. Some of you say you are surprised
> we still have sub minimum wage for disabled workers. Well, I have news
> for you.
> There are jobs exempt from minimum wage standards. Farm workers, even
> the legal workers, are one example. Read some books, and you'll see
> the exemptions and loopholes.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sophie Trist
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:19 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> Brandon, I see what you mean at people shopping at Goodwill. But I
> have sold old clothes and stuff to Goodwill as well. I think they mean
> a boycott in the buying and selling senses.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 19:42:01 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> Hello,
> I have not shopped at good will in many years. I don't know very many
> people who shop at Good Will, so I'm not sure if a Boycott alone will
> do the trick.
> Maybe if everyone contacted their newspapers and TV stations telling
> them of the boycott and why there is a boycott. Many people find that
> working without minimum wage is insane. But just to hammer the point
> home, point out that this under minimum wage is a way for the United
> States to keep a handhold on under minimum wage so there is some way
> for under minimum wage to be instituted back in for everyone else. The
> precedent is there, so everyone needs to overturn this law so no one
> anywhere in the United States can ever be paid under minimum wage
> again.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Humberto Avila
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:10 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> Hello, I agree with this as well. I hope that by doing the boycott to
> this company, in the national / universal spectrum, we are able to put
> pressure on employers, and on other companies and corporations, as
> well as organizations who pay subminimum wages. We could eventually
> end up spreading the word of stopping companies to pay subminimum
> wages and they could even see that people with disabilities and
> including blind people are capable of being paid like the sighted
> population. If potential employers see this change happening, those
> employers will have a light bulb lit up, and will be able to see that
> blind people are competent, then will hire them. Then we can make more
> change. I see this happening, from my personal opinion. Let's hope
> that the NFB does this.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 6:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> Justin,
>
> I agree with the points you've made. If Goodwill was boycotted
> universally, it would put more pressure on them to pay their disabled
> workers fair wages. Plus, if Goodwill developed a centralized wage
> policy and gave their workers fair wages, other corporations might
> follow their lead.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012
> 23:19:15 +0000
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> One more note: I think that local business decision-makers within
> Goodwill Industries would be educated/led to philosophical change
> simply by the fact that the corporate leaders of Goodwill Industries
> adopted a universal fair wage policy (if they did), so that would help
> with the education, too.
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.?
> —MARGARET MEAD
> ________________________________________
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:13 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Goodwill Boycott
>
> Arielle, Gabe, and all:
>
> I like the point that you've made about the decentralized wage
> policies and rewarding good locations, but do you think that perhaps a
> benefit to boycotting universally would be a possibility that Goodwill
> Industries would create a centralized
> (universal) policy that all locations must pay their workers fair
> wages?
>
> I feel like the end result that we want is for Goodwill Industries to
> adopt a universal standard of paying all workers fair wages, and the
> approach that you all have mentioned seems to me to address the
> decisions in individual locations.  I do understand the point of
> leading local business leaders to undergo philosophical change and
> choose to pay their workers fair wages, but which item is the top
> priority: education of individuals or
> achievement of fair wages?   That's not a rhetorical question; I
> want to hear opinions on it.
>
> Justin
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.?
> —MARGARET MEAD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
> iggs%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-
l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-
l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net 